yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
ok, well then my tests show pretty good results in that case. about a 17% (off top of my head) drop with one finger on screen, and about a 35% drop when doing simulated toonwarz gameplay repeated multitouch mayhem on screen (both tests using neocore with sound off).

Certainly the results were still almost perfectly smooth the whole time, with only very brief visual interruptions when repeatedly tapping the screen during complex multitouch maneuvers.

I'd like someone to try that on a different rom to see what results they get compared to without touching the screen (please with sound off also so we're just testing visual results here).
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] pulser_g2:
EDIT: oops our posts are getting a little out of sync :) This will be interesting to see if we can get more info on, as it's intriguing...

Eh? I just did it and got 31.6 FPS without touching screen, and 27.3 touching it. You aren't gonna get the same speeds touching vs. not touching, as the kernel drivers will always have to process touch input.

Then, I decided to tap out a drumbeat on the screen, so i was touching it both once and twice (and occasionally 3) places at a time. And I got 25.1 FPS. Considering the work the touchscreen is doing here, I am pretty impressed.

If I get time, I might youtube it as a demonstration, as I reckon a drumbeat is a pretty good way to stress it with constant tapping across the screen and more than one touch at a time.

But YMMV, and I'm also running Froyd 1.1.1 (uploading) so there could be differences there.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
Bolded the fact you didn't check this on other ROMs, for emphasis.

Prior to the driver fix, clocked at 729MHz, I dropped as low as 15fps in Neocore with just holding a finger on the screen. Raging Thunder 2 Lite was completely unplayable.

Of course there's still going to be some performance degradation when it is processing touch input as everything including the 3d on the Hero is handled by the CPU and for responsiveness the touchscreen driver has to send lots of events through the bus when touch input is happening otherwise dragging and multi touch wouldn't work properly.

So I'd appreciate it if you could avoid tones such as "so much for their fix for screen touching..." until you at least have some comparisons.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
update: removed unfounded judgements from my first post on teh subject. :-) I was just basing it on the simple claim of no slowdowns, which of course isn't true. More like "much improved speed during screen touching" I'd say.

don't worry, if you read ahead I'd already posted a more positive response as part of the discussion. all in all, quite good according to what you guys are posting.

Still curious though about what other non villain roms can pull off.

re: nathan's drum beat test: drum beat concept is cool Nathan, good idea and easier to repeat. however if you've played toonwarz you'll know how intense a multitouch workout it is, sliding left finger around constantly, tapping right finger repeatedly on different places. That's definitely why I got a lower score than you for the repeated touch test.

And I'm only running at 691 by the way which is prob why my overall speeds are slightly slower than yours. I figure if 710 is the fastest I can run froyo without glitching, let's take it down one more notch so I'm not pushing it's limits all the time. I can live with 1 less fps :-)

When I killed the compass process it really did make a difference in the responsiveness of the rom and it took away the occasional "launcherpro hangs for a minute" issues that I've encountered very briefly at times.

So my tests were done in a compass-killed state.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] pulser_g2:
Ah cool. BTW, nath isn't about just now :) I was the 'drummer' :P.

The 691 vs 729 shouldn't affect it much, as that will just offset results, rather than spoil them. This new ROM does use new touchscreen drivers that fix multitouch, so maybe they are helping??? I'll try the toon-wars style test in a minute for you.

Anyway, perhaps there will be a new ROM to test soon? ;)
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
sorry pulser, didn't mean to do that. I call my daughters the wrong names too by the way so don't take it personally LoL

great about multitouch fix! can't wait for the results.

I think we have a new incredibly unscientific benchmark LoL, dkelley's "toonwarz" test heh heh
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] pulser_g2:
LOL. It's an honour to be confused with nathan :) Don't worry bout it :D

Ninpo has been working non-stop on this basically, so I think it will be pretty good

I like the idea of this new benchmark, and propose a new scale of measurement, equally unscientific. How about the "percentage goodness" [sic]? That way, we can do it in a totally unrepeatable manner, just like TV science shows (*ahem* brainiac), and then compare our meaningless results afterwards and discuss how we categorically proved nothing at all :D

Well, the toonwarz test will be interesting. Be sure to report back on how it goes on the FroydVillain 1.1.1 with multi touch :)
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
heh heh, agreed 100%. Loads of fun and definitely not worthy of charting.

Did you do your tests holding the phone in your left hand or right hand? ;-D

So the toonwarz test will at least give me the information I personally want out of a benchmark - something that consistently is tough on my phone's performance, and trying to make it as responsive as possible.

Just as a footnote of interest as a programmer : Even though my toonwarz-like benchmark multitouch test lowered my fps results under 1.1.0, toonwarz itself isn't playable under 1.1.0 since it actually does require multitouch (can't shoot and walk at same time right now). Interesting that multitouch lowered fps benchmarking but didn't actually send recognized events as multitouch within the game. This is entirely useless info since Ninpo already solved it, but I found it interesting.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
Multitouch still provides touch input even if it's only registering single touches, so you'll still see a hit due to cpu cycles being eaten by touch processing. If you haven't upgraded to 1.1.1 yet, install dotty from the market and you'll see what I mean.

Irritates the hell out of me that no real gpu worth speaking of was put into the Hero. It's a great little phone.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
great info thx, and didn't know about dotty, will check it out sometime (already on 1.1.1 now though).

AGREED about the hero's hardware. Although working in a company where custom hardware and firmware is developed (I'm on the firmware dev team), I can see how long the process takes including board layout, different passes and stages (tape-out), but it's a bit of lack of forsight from HTC that no notable gpu is in these phones. I'm sure they could have done it, and history shows even back a few years ago how important it was in high end mobiles.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
k pulser (et al):

Froyd 1.1.1 touch screen comparison neocore tests.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

stock clock speeds:

29.4 (no touch)

24.5 (single spot held)

16.4 (toonwarz style)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

running at 710 performance mode (I know, I was at 691 before, might as well go to 710 now, this isn't scientific anyway)

31.5 (no touch)

27.4 (single spot held) (NICE PERFORMANCE)

18.2 (toonwarz style) (pretty extreme multitouch use going on by me)

all in all this is very good, the extreme multitouch used to kill toonwarz - will be interesting to see what happens when I actually play a game now.

cheers :-)
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
The stock clock speed results aren't too shabby, considering I lowered the max frequency to 576 from 652 (apparently there are Heros that can't even manage that).

If you're willing to do a nand backup and do that on Froyd1.0... :)
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
AGREED - I was impressed with how little it changed with clock speed :-)

maybe, would be interesting to see the difference. If I'm going to flash another rom in the middle though I'd rather flash fusion 4.1 stock and test it, then test again with the VR kernel just posted in the fusionrom thread... ;-)
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] btdag:
Question:

Do you prefer the GPU graphs or the CPU graphs?

i.e. do you prefer them in performance order or in alphabetical order?
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
I'd say performance order.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] btdag:
Cronos Droid 2.1.1 added - very interesting results

One thing to note - based upon previous discussion is that when a finger is held on screen whilst doing the NeoCore test Cronos Droid dropped FPS by almost 50% from 32.8 to 17.4. With tapping/drumming the score was 23.1. This is a significant drop, which would suggest that the touchscreen driver is flawed in some way. CPU results should go up shortly - though again there were some interesting results.

Also I f-ed up the charts bu editing the spreadsheet too much (trying to get it in performance order) so the An3D bench test results are currently missing. Should be fixed shortly.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Feeyo:
Ah yes. This is correct. Cronos 2.x series is not using my hardware accelerated touchscreen driver. Next release will though.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] netarchy:
Could you post your kernel sources (per the GPL) for this hardware accelerated driver?

I worked with Ninpo on a fix to address the touchscreen driver issue, and I'd be interested to see how you approached it.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Feeyo:
No worries. I will post it in combination with 2.6.32 sources.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] !Aman!:
ownership of the thread changed to btdag as requested.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] btdag:
Awesome - graphs are back up :) and first post updated with new details.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] btdag:
Adding Cronos Froyo 0.1.33 as we speak. Expect the graphs to update in the next 5-10 minutes. I'll be overclocking Cronos shortly.

Very good news that the touchscreen driver is looking awesome!

32.1 is the normal FPS, with finger held down it dropped to only 27.4 (which is a massive improvement) and with tapping/drumming it dropped to 24.6. This is an incredible improvement over the 2.1.1 build of Cronos. Very nice to see so well done Feeyo (and I believe Nimpo, who developed the driver). Great to see the community working together again. Expect similar results from the latest build of FroydVillain for those interested :)

Edit: info from Nimpo
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Feeyo:
Nice stats. But touchscreen driver info is a wrong statement. I had it fixed already before he even posted his sources. So impossible. Sorry.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
You didn't have jack fixed until after the release of Froyd 1.1.0, so don't try that one.

If you did, where's the source code? All you've provided is source code from the original broken driver.

I've provided the sources to my kernel and my fixes. Where's yours?

EDIT: I'm not usually one to succumb to a good troll. I sincerely hope that's what this is and in which case I congratulate you. Because I'd rather that than the alternative, which is a deliberate discarding and soiling of the GPL, a license without which these forums would not exist.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Feeyo:
Ok explain me this:

How can I pull your driver out of an rom? Its compiled into the kernel zImage. Impossible for me to pull out your code from there.

Source code WILL come now stop being an ass man. I told you ****ing 5 times I will release it when its ready. I am not going to release Alpha ****ing code to the public.

And another thing, you guys are also busy creating the 2.6.32 kernel isnt it? Then show me that code please under the GPL license.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
My source code is easily searchable on github. If a random user of VillainROM can find it, you can.

I'm researching 2.6.32 porting, I have not got as far as you. I have conceded this many times including in your own thread. How many more credits do I need to give you, before you feel satisfied enough to release the source code that you're lording over us?

The issue at hand has nothing to do with what state you feel the code is in. You agreed to the GPL version 2, of which you are required to provide the full source code upon request. I have requested it so that myself and more developers can set about making it fully stable and release ready for the Hero platform, something we'd be waiting months for if you were left to carry this out by yourself.

Not only that long before you were even a glimmer of a "developer" I've been upholding the GPL with more vim and vigour than you're trying to withhold the source from us now. I am a self confessed Linux zealot and have been for a long time and your flouting of open source and the GPL of any version I take personally.

It is because of that license I am free to do whatever I will with my personal computer and any other technical devices I own capable of running the Linux kernel. The open source community has taught me more and earned me more money than I care to specify and in that time I have made high ranking and loyal friends within the open source community.

I care about that community and the community upon which was built, the XDA group. How dare you presume to lecture me on my acts or my morals.

The license you agreed to says you will produce source code upon request. Not by your own schedule or anyone else's, but at the time of distribution or upon request. No **** waving, no "when it's ready", nothing. In fact you can wave your own **** around WHILE releasing your source. I did it when myself and friends resolved the touchscreen driver issue, YOU supposedly got 2.6.32 kernel working on the Hero! An even bigger feat!

I have been polite and I have been civil in the face of your responses and the responses from those in your community. I'd thank you to extend me the same courtesy if not as a human being but as a fellow developer. We are after all, here for those that we develop for, right? Which is the XDA community. No single developer is bigger than this community and that includes you Feeyo.

So I leave the ball in your court. Any unsatisfactory retort will not be dealt with by myself.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Feeyo:
You know what? I will not release any code. I will release the empty sources without my changes. As I am not coding under any GPL license. My code I produce is and will not be written under the GPL. And now end of story.

Really this is getting very old how you guys react. Its like having a dejavu.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
That's not how the GPL works, bub. By taking, modifying and distributing the Linux kernel, you're agreeing to publish any changes you make to that source public. I suggest you go and read it.

Not to mention pissing in a pond larger than you are able to comprehend. This isn't some narrow side project with a feeble attempt at clinging to the GPL, it's the Linux kernel. A sacred object to some, a violently protected object to others. The GPL isn't some EULA that we just "yes yes get on with it" to as per other licenses. It is pursued with the same vigor as basic freedoms are.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
by some people, it seems.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] netarchy:
Hrmm. This is disheartening. You do realize, of course, that under any circumstances, the act of making changes in the source of anything licensed under the GPL legally requires that the sources are made available upon the release of software using said code, as this code is also automatically under the GPL.

I must admit, I am baffled by your stance. The single largest advantage in the GPL is the fact that the community can participate in the development process, something you seem to wish to avoid. Whether this is from some "lone ranger" mentality, some manner of maliciousness, a lack of self-modified source, glory seeking, or some other issue I will not speculate.

That said, if you prefer to fly solo in development, more power to you. Releasing sources for GPL'd software you've already released does not imply that collaborative development is suddenly forced, it simply fulfills obligations set by the licensing terms under which the software was developed (plus it's bragging rights if you care for that sort of thing ;D).

Myself, I release all my source modifications whenever I release a revision to my kernel line for the Evo, and while I may not always merge changes that someone else might have made in their own customizations, I get the benefit of knowing that my work is benefiting people.

It's also really cool when someone acknowledges your work and merges it with their own development efforts, potentially leading to even more people benefiting ;D.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
If people didn't, you wouldn't be enjoying your Android phone. Have a think about that. I'm actually astonished by your response, after Feeyo has declared he doesn't give two craps about the GPL and will continue to distribute his kernel, with his modifications regardless of what the license he agreed to says.

EDIT: Don't post when tired and annoyed.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] riemervdzee:
Maybe you should go more to the basics Hacre, the community spirit.

Consider asking yourself this:

- What is my position in the HTC Hero homebrewing community if I got this attitude?

- Do people feel associated with me in this community? (eg. bonding)

- What is the current achievements for the community when I act like this?

Well I can answer the third. Feeyo now decided not to release code while still following the GPL. I predicted yesterday this would happen if this would continue, and it seems I got it right.

You see, Feeyo is a person. Freaking human being. Start treatning him like that. He is doing you lads a service by backporting lots of code and all you want is more.

I can understand the I-want-sourcecode mentality, and I even agree with it. However asking 500 times a day is not effective in every single way.

So again Hacre, what did you achieved with this lil riot of yours?
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Feeyo:
I agree with you a 100%. Yesterday's post was a little mistake from my side saying **** you all. I got tired and pissed about that whining and threatening.

As this whole kernel issue from the start of day 1 I joined here was getting a private issue against a team that has been attacking every damn new developer that joined at XDA. The whole problem is whenever I would have released any 3D performance patch or tweaks to the source code that same team would have taken it, added it to their kernel and released it under their name.

Then telling the community I stole it from them. This is how they work. Easy as that. I have explained multiple times that I would release the source code when its out of its Alpha state. I am not going to release any source code patches that are still very aggressive/ugly.

But anyhow I have been PM'd, threatened. Contacted by complaining users by moderator so I have taken the decision to not be part of this whole cry baby actions. And am going to work on the new kernel without any updates to the outside world. For now this are my last words/posts about the whole 2.6.32 branch.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] rakig:
The GPL requires all modifications be published if the changes are distributed, however it has no provisions specifying a specific timeline or immediacy that that code has to be released on request (one of the well known weak spots of the GPL licenses)

Similar to how HTC doesn't release the source until weeks/months after they actually publish it, which is annoying but not illegal. (from my recollection)

So demanding the source code 20 times a day isn't going to change anything. He has the right to clean up and present his code under the GPL in a reasonable time frame, which unless you want to take him to court, could be as long as he wants to take.

Even more so, threatening him, being overly aggressive and insulting him over and over isn't accomplishing you anything. Hell, you're even making his point about a team stealing his changes and then claiming them as his own look plausible, and thats so very GPL-ish isn't it
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] kad3t:
Bravo! Finally somebody with something productive to say... ^__^

That said, could this argument stop please (that goes to both sides involved)? I mean this was supposed to be a benchmark thread and not "I like this more and that less" and vice versa one. I understand that me not being a developer means that I have much less to say or that my opinion is not as important as of the devs present here, but constant disagreements really lead nowhere. I'm sure that both sides have their points and I'm sure that the truth/reason/solution is somewhere in the middle. But most importantly I AM SURE that we will NOT find either here as the discussion's been going for a while in various threads IIRC and never lead to nothing. So, please, if possible, respect each other and deal with you issues in PM instead of taking over public threads with them.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Arkymedes:
Lol, just came here to check it out on the thread.. Didn't miss much I guess with all the heated comments...

Anyway, btdag, great work so far. Excellent to know that all the work was not in vain :)
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] btdag:
I take back what I said - so much for community spirit...

Cronos Froyo & FroydVillain releases will, from now on, have the lowest priority in future benchmarks. I will look for alternative active developers releases to benchmark and praise. The action taken on both parts is pathetic and the continued public dispute in these forums is unnecessary and quite frankly hurting the community spirit.

Thanks Arkymedes - your spreadsheet has been exceptionally useful. I hope the Galaxy forums are better behaved that this :p
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
haha, I like the edit and 100% agree with it - I've been there many times myself :-)

but my comment means that I feel following the words of the GPL evangelically is not necessary, certainly not policing it against one person who's doing this in his spare time for fun, as are you. Human nature can be defensive and proud - obviously feeyo is quite human as are you. You two need a divorce councilor :-)

That aside, you're both great devs. Keep up the good work.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] dkelley:
So when these tests are made, do you install the same version (if possible) of the testing software each time? I'm thinking that some of the rom versions are a little older and it made me wonder if maybe any testing software would have changed in the meantime?

Hopefully benchmark software developers would do their best to avoid different results between versions. But ya never know for sure.

For example, the stock rom shows incredibly poor results. Is it really that bad if tested again now? It just seems to amazingly bad LoL. That's what made me starting thinking about this...

cheers - loving the new results, really well put together information.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] Hacre:
The stock kernel configuration is pretty terrible though.
[Hero, G2 Touch Android Development] btdag:
I am currently installing the latest version of the software with each rom. Having said that there has been maybe one update in the software that I have seen which fixed compatibility with a screen size unrelated to the hero. Realistically this shouldn't affect performance. It might be worth testing the stock rom again (however i'd rather not have to install it and then undo everything). I can't imagine much would be much different, if at all.