yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] soad112589:
I think its most likely in the kernel/drivers because you guys are using the same kernel for Froyo, right? (Still on the hero, gonna get an EVO as soon as I get paid) I remember someone (either toastcfh or flipz) put OpenGL in the Hero. Maybe a tweaked OpenGL can be put into the EVO, if that is even the problem.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/94.aspx

You guys can try getting an answer from here. After all, it IS the official HTC support forum. I would do it myself, but I've already made a thread there regarding the touch sensor lag :P.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Done.

http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/94/t/3186.aspx
[EVO 4G General] npace:
Nice

I "tipped" engadget as well... sometimes they post stories like this. You can spam them too -- it might help :P
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Good idea; large tech sites like Engadget usually have enough influence to get SOMETHING done. I'll let them know of the issue as well. After all, there's strength in numbers ;).
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
If you have friends, which I don't know that you do. Go to one of their houses that has an android phone (it could even be the oldest one made, the G1) and play with both side by side. If you still think your phone doesnt lag then you need to seek medical attention cause you shouldn't be driving on the road if your eyes are seriously that bad man. :eek:
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
There was already a video posted of this a few pages back, once again get those eyes checked before u kill someone!!!!!
[EVO 4G General] halorin:
I appreciate the sentiment, I do. But, I think if you saw your phone run for a while at 60 frames a second for a while and then go back you'd better appreciate the issue.
[EVO 4G General] clamknuckle:
Yeah, I just saw those, and my EVO doesn't run like that. Not sure what the issue is. Mine is hardware revision 2, maybe that makes a difference.

I have friends with moments, heros, and incredibles. My phone runs smooth as silk. The Incredible is about the same, but it smokes the hero and moment. Don't know what to tell you. I wear contacts so maybe I can't see it or something, but I just know the EVO flies.
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
I have hardware revision 2 and could tell before the device was even released that there was an issue (I have the I/O device that I got before release). I cannot game on this thing no matter what, my eyes will not allow it.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Sorry buddy, but I dont buy it. Care to post a video to prove it?
[EVO 4G General] clamknuckle:
I was playing the punch out clone on the pooper not 2 hours ago. No stutter, no artifacts, no lag. and I play robo defense daily.

I dunno, if it's there, it doesn't bother me.
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
If he can't see the lag first hand, there's no way he'll see it in a YouTube video lol
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Really, let's stop arguing about whether or not some people have the problem, some people see it, whether it affects you or not, and so on. Some people notice the FPS problem and they want to fix it. Let's not drag down the people that want to fix it. If you're fine with your phone, go out and use it.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
He sees it. He's just in denial. No doubt about it in my mind.
[EVO 4G General] d.cooper:
I cant find anything about Silicon Image P1U0941 HDMI Processor that the teardown says its has in it.
[EVO 4G General] clamknuckle:
Sure. This is on Damage Control 3.1.2.

Sorry, all I have is a blackberry to shoot it with, but I think it will work out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhEWCbDpWRU

the start menu lags at first, but I have a ton of apps. once its cached it's fine
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Sorry to tell you, dude, but that's definitely laggier than the Hero. I'll repost my videos to keep it recent:

[YOUTUBE]ZJsQY6CW08Y[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]xe-Lxr-8x7g[/YOUTUBE]

As you can see in the first video, the Hero's switching is instantaneous. The Evo is stuttery and sluggish in comparison. Same applies to your Evo.

In the second video, you can see that scrolling on the Hero is ridiculously smooth and fluid. There's absolutely no jittering or frame skipping. On the Evo, it's the exact opposite. I could tell from your video as well.
[EVO 4G General] clamknuckle:
What rom are you running on the hero? How much RAM is free on each device?

Show me stock vs stock then I might buy it.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Hero's running on the stock rom, it isn't modified in any way; it's actually my little brother's. The Evo is running on the stock rom as well, but the Sense home is replaced with Launcher Pro. I didn't check for the amount of free RAM on each device before the video, but afterward I saw that the Hero had around 50mb free, while the Evo had 150. There were no background apps running.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Thanks for taking the time to shoot the video. Unfortunately there is still a night and day difference (refer to post above). I'm sorry but while it is perfectly acceptable to say that this stuff doesn't bother you, you simply cannot argue it is "silky smooth", especially side by side with the hero. There is simply no argument here.

Extreme denial :(
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
The funny thing is, your video is even better proof! You don't notice that the screen moves after you've completed your swiping actions? You should compare the Incredible side by side. The EVO is a great phone and is still very usable (and like I said, I prefer it to the Incredible), but it's being outperformed by lesser phones for no apparent reason. We want to get that fixed.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Dude I really wanted to stop this argument, but this video not only proves my point, but I think your Evo is worse than mine or the one in the other video the other guy posted. That is not fluid at all.
[EVO 4G General] leestyle:
Holy crap that's laggy as hell. I returned mine this afternoon to RadioShack.
[EVO 4G General] upperkingjr:
Evo has a higher resolution then the hero, uses more power the higher the res, more stress on the graghics chip..

Sent fr

om my PC36100 using Tapatalk
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Sorry, that doesn't fly. The Incredible is using the exact same hardware and it doesn't stutter or lag at all.
[EVO 4G General] Vinny75:
Not quite, the Incredible has an AMOLED screen and no HDMI out... http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=2234&id2=2233
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
I'm referring to processing power.
[EVO 4G General] Xyber3364:
Sent pretty long, pleading email to HTC (doubt they will read the whole thing)

the lag is pretty bad in my opinion (coming from Nexus One), I do a good amount of openGL development and I noticed it first at the API-Demos where the textured sprite text was jittery did not know it was capped back than, kinda relieved that this issue might be resolved. Maybe xda community will get it fixed before HTC does :-)?
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Someone want to try and use the attached board files in the godmode kernel? I've commented out everything HDMI in the board files and want to see if HDMI initializes still. It shouldn't. Also, delete .config.old in the main directory before building kernel to be safe.
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
In case you guys missed it:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/18/htc-has-fix-in-the-works-for-evo-4g-screen-sensitivity-separati/

Sounds like HTC is addressing some of the issues.
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
I the meantime I recommend you check out bugless beast's rom. The scrolling is much improved throughout the entire device. It will at least hold you over until the source code is released. His and damage control are my terri favorite but bugless is far far faster.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
That is not this issue.

I think it's funny how HTC is saying this is a hardware issue, because they said the same thing to me when I asked about the led backlight timeout on the touch pro, but it turns out it wasn't.

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] Deadbolt:
I really hope this issue is fixed pronto because I tend on buying an Evo very soon. I noticed the lag in scrolling right away in the videos and in in-store comparisons of the Incredible and Evo. I'm not sure if it's been brought up but does this frame rate issue affect the touch input lag as well as seen on videos using the multi-touch tool? The Evo seems like a great device and this defect might be a deal breaker for me if it is not fixed. Coming from a G1, speed is a priority, 'Incredible' type of speed. Maybe I should e-mail HTC too since i'm a prospective buyer. Hopefully that can help open their eyes a bit that this issue may be deterring future customers from buying their product as well.
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
I've been trying everything and nothing has worked, I'm really beginning to think it's hardware capped.
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
Has this been determined to be the cause of the touch input lag as well? I think I could live with the cap if it at least wasn't so laggy via touch.
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Let's at least wait until we get the source and we get HTC's fix for the other stuff.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I think it might be two issues. They might be related, but the touch lag might be a problem in the display drivers. Hard to tell right now. Does anyone know if the incredible has the same Atmel touch display that the Evo has?

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
Yes. From what I've read it's the same.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
The problem is that it still has issues even with the incredible kernel with the Evo board files. So its either a hardware issue or its a problem in the board files.

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
Yeah, I realize these are different problems. I was just pointing out that HTC is at least responding to some of the issues. Particularly the ones that are getting a lot of press. HEY ENGADGET! Run another article about the FPS cap.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
It does.

10char
[EVO 4G General] knives of ice:
the only chance to get a legitimate response from htc is if you get various media sites involved. there are many conflicting reports from customer service. We need engadget or gizmodo on the case to actually find the answers on if this was intentional or a mistake they are trying to fix
[EVO 4G General] hibby50:
same response here
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
Maybe we should go back to Sprint and ask them to refund the extra $10.00 that we're paying for "premium" features in lieu of the fact that HTC has now acknowledged to intentionally handicapping the phone. Then maybe HTC will feel heat on two fronts instead of just one. I know I'll be contacting Sprint about it.
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
I actually feel sympathy for Sprint. They spent TONS of money on hundreds of thousands, even possibly millions of what they and all the users thought would be the baddest phone ever produced (and it still possibly could be if ALL the screen issues are fixed).

Unfortunately they got screwed over by HTC with their antics. This is in no way Sprints fault. All they did was try to provide the best handset experience for their subscribers. It sucks what HTC did to them. :(

I guarantee Sprint is all over HTC's ass right now about this crap that is getting thrown in their face by all the users.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I actually feel bad for them too. I don't think Sprint knew about this before they decided to sign the deal, just like how we didn't either. You would never assume that the best specd phone on the market could have a cripple like this.

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] investinwaffles:
Exactly it is ridiculous how much ADD HTC has with their "flagship" devices. This is exactly like the ATT Tilt schenanagains they pulled. Very disappointing to see that not much has changed.
[EVO 4G General] Young_e:
here is the response i got:

Dear XXXXX,

Hello XXXX. Thank you for taking the time to contact HTC America Technical Support via E-Mail with your concern about the fps rate of your HTC EVO 4G. I understand how important it is for your device to function to your specifications and I apologize for any inconvenience this situation has caused you. Please be aware that our technical team has been tracking this issue and, although I don’t have a time frame for a fix, we are diligently working toward a resolution for our customers. Please continue to monitor our website for future postings, or call customer service at 1.866.449.8358 Sunday through Saturday 6:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m. EST.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number XXXXXXXXXXXX.

Sincerely,

Richard

HTC
[EVO 4G General] ffolkes:
sprint can do a lot about this if they want. but i'm not sure they will. us users are like gnats to multibillion dollar corporations, they just don't care. they know enough people will always buy their crap. i think if sprint wanted, they could really put the screws on htc, since they probably make up a substantial percentage of htc's income. throw around some talk of going to another manufacturer for their sprint branded phones, or perhaps an angry call from one ceo to another might get some quick results. but instead i'm sure it's slowly trickling through each company's channels, being bounced around for weeks/months.

seriously, if a handful of devs here can do so much in just a few days, surely the people who MADE THE DEVICE could address the issue, or at least easily release an official statement on it within a week.

case and point, where is the kernel source? if it was complete enough to ship the phone, it's complete enough to release to the dev community. but instead we get weeks/months of red tape and bs.

sorry, i get worked up when companies get entangled in their own bureaucracy! :P
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
I highly recommend you check out froyo v8 and bugless roms as they all but eliminate the lag.

Still want to see this addressed but the custom roms help a great deal.
[EVO 4G General] hibby50:
i cant go without a camera and gameplay is still choppy due to the fact the cap is not lifted
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
Camera works in bugless beast. While the cap is not lifted the os feels significantly faster so the 90% or whatever you aren't playing the few games that lag as a result of this you can enjoy the device more.

Naturally people can just ***** and not try it as well.
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
You can't expect everyone to flash their Evo with this ROM as a band-aid fix. HTC needs to make things right.
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
If enough people threathened to return the phones, I bet you Sprint will have to do something. They're spending a lot of money as it is trying to build out their 4G network, repairing their image in the eyes of the consumers, in terms of customer service and the fact that they never had much in the way of exclusive top tier phones, and in advertising for the Evo. Looking at all that money going back out to those who brought the Evo, Sprint would have to respond and quick!
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
Let's not forget that Sprint is STILL charging $10 per month, not for 4G, but for "premium features". If the Hero outperforms the Evo, and they're not charging Hero users the extra $10 for "premium features", then I say take it to Sprint. Enough people complain, Sprint will be more quick to get on HTC to fix this.

However, I'm sure the devs here can fix it as well. See my post count? It's because I can just search and find my answer. A credit to all the knowledgable people here who contribute to make my phone experience a good one.
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
I wonder if anyone's actually looked at the reviews on sprint.com for the EVO. That would be more indicative of the general population of users, we are the minority.

They all complain about battery life, whereas most of us here will tweak, flash new roms, remove bloatware.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Myself and a few other devs have been trying for a few days now. It's not looking good. I wouldn't say it's impossible yet, but I'm starting to think this actually might really be a hardware limitation. I'm not sure how that's possible, but I'm starting to worry.
[EVO 4G General] Freelancerx:
lol wow you guys do realize that the majority of evo users out there can barely figure out the qik app let alone worry about fps cap...you guys who worry about this stuff really do think you must be important... thats what i feel sad about lol im not sad for sprint haha because guess what your average joe blow out there probably is very happy with their phone...right now im using adw launcher and if you change the speed at which the pages change they are silky smooth....i still find it amazing how some people will miss out on an awesome device because they think this is a deal breaker lol...hilarious...

lol this thread had actually turned pretty decent when there some people actively trying to come up with a fix it seems like all the whiners are back...
[EVO 4G General] EtherealRemnant:
Well I guess Sprint is going to lose me again... I'll come back when the Galaxy S Pro launches...
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Even if it's a hardware limitation, it'd have to be controlled by something HTC put on the board, which could probably be turned off. Given that we use the same Amtel mXT224 touch sensor that the Incredible uses, along with the same CPU, something doesn't add up. I'm also thinking that the lag is not due to the 30fps cap, but something wrong with touch input reception on the Amtel. I can live with 30fps as long as the screen moves as fast as my finger tells it to, although I do wish to see some 60fps on this beast.

Does anyone have a high res shot of the Incredible board? I'd like to see the differences.
[EVO 4G General] EtherealRemnant:
Well Hummingbird is a faster processor anyway, I can deal with a .3inch screen real estate loss to gain 16GB of onboard storage, hummingbird, and a slide-out keyboard.

I'm sick of HTC and their shenanigans... If it isn't one thing, its another.

I can almost guarantee you that they locked the frame rate because of the atrocious battery life the Incredible ended up with...
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
One weird thing that I noticed on the incredible is that even though it uses the same touch sensor, you can clearly see those "tracking dots" we're used to seeing on resistive touch screens. The evo digitizer is perfectly clear.
[EVO 4G General] daneurysm:
What isn't a deal breaker for me? Things being broken or buggy on release. I've said it before and I'll say it again, welcome to the bleeding edge of

technology.

What is a deal breaker--and rather offensive? The denial that this is a problem and is actually a 'feature' which removes all obligation for them to do a damned thing about it.

Beyond deal breaker, beyond offensive is just the down right "WTF" worthy is if this is in fact a hardware cap. Why not at least a checkbox under settings for "Performance vs Battery life"? This is my 2nd Android device, I'm full well used to terrible battery life. Bring it on.

If this is found to be a hardware cap, then I'm probably going to bring it back. If we hit the 3rd of July with no progress made on breaking that cap I will bring it back.

I realize that most 'lay people', for lack of a more polite term, will never ever ever notice this. But I do. That's enough for me. I don't care if anyone else cares, I do.
[EVO 4G General] redct:
I did some more testing. If you disable the Adreno graphics drivers in /system/lib/egl/, the Sprint bootup animation runs at 60FPS. However, something kicks in once Android's UI loads and it's still limited to 30FPS. Plus, the screen constantly flickers. If you remove /system/lib/libhdmi_*, you no longer get messages in logcat about HDMI being enabled or disabled, which makes me think that I basically disabled HDMI output. However, the 30FPS cap still remains. Puzzling.
[EVO 4G General] EtherealRemnant:
Sounds to me like its a kernel issue then.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Yeah we tested this. I recoded the board files to completely eliminate all hdmi init and it still limited to 30 fps. I'm almost certain it is not an issue with hdmi.

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] redct:
My guess is it's some combination of the kernel and the graphics drivers, or a hardware limit. Bah, I'm thinking too much about this, I should just be patient. :P
[EVO 4G General] Garrett_H:
Hi

i'm a regular "joe-blow" but I've been watching this very closely. I'm not very tech savvy but I've been talking about this since I first heard about the EVO. Just hoping there is a fix for the framerate issue in the forseeable future. I want the phone. but I don't want to get jipped either. I'm just letting you guys know I hope you come up with something. I'm with ya!
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
Whose whining? I'm simply suggesting a way to get HTC to respond to requests for the kernel source. This whole thread is about finding a solution to the problem. It had been suggested that Sprint doesn't care about the limitations on the phone, but if...nevermind...it's not worth my time defending it against somoeone who'd rather throw out insults than contribute anything dealing with the problem. :cool:
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
The only shot of the Incredible innards I've seen is this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF-Nztd24eI

It's not ideal, but you get a pretty good look at the board and all the chips on it (be sure to watch at 720P).

Here are two great teardowns of the EVO for comparison:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HTC-Evo-4G-Teardown/2979/1

http://www.chipworks.com/HTC-EVO-Teardown.aspx
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Yeah that's the only thing I found too. I can't even find the atmel chip in that video though. It's not as complete or revealing tear down that the Evo one is.

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
You can see it at about 1:45. It's on the edge of the board next to a ribbon cable.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Oh, I see the blurry chip now. :)
[EVO 4G General] hibby50:
Well it's like when you download a file with a capped download speed. Say it was capped at 50 kbps but your computer normally downloads at 600 kbps. your download will try to go above 50 but get pulled back down keeping your d/l speed around 50.
[EVO 4G General] Dougie2187:
I know what you mean. I have often seen my FPS spike up in the 70fps range too, which was quite surprising. Though the average is a nice steady constant 29-30 the majority of the test.

It would imply that 30 is a target frame rate for the phone, and I guess you are basically trying to say that it's more or less a software cap rather than a hardware cap. If the display was 30hz you wouldn't see the fps above 30, if the gpu could only support 30fps you wouldn't see it above 30fps. If the fps was limited by the hdmi port you wouldn't see it above 30fps. So, in the end, they are trying to make the phone stay around their target of 30 fps.
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
Not really very accurate, a you can get a higher FPS than your display can output...but it will cause screen tearing. That's what vsync is for, to keep your FPS from going higher than your display can take.
[EVO 4G General] spiicytuna:
From this thread.
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
Great, so if it's hardware capped, we basically bought a portable video/movie player. :D
[EVO 4G General] JordanClay2003:
Spoke to sprint managers. They are saying it is a hardware cap as well. And "if you look in the Evo 4G book we advertise it runs 30fps"
[EVO 4G General] mrono:
yep, a portable movie player that can only play a special format, hurray :mad:
[EVO 4G General] JordanClay2003:
This phone is a big upgrade for me. But I do feel sorry for those who spent the $500+ on this phone.
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
That's like believing what a car salesman tells you lol. They might be right but only time will tell.
[EVO 4G General] jerryparid:
Sprint Managers doesn't know anything about anything, maybe deny you discounts....
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
So what makes it stand out from the droid x, iphone 4, galaxy s? Nothing now that we learn it's hardware capped.
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
Why was HTC ignorant enough to sacrifice 50% graphics "power" to hdmi which people are not going to use every day? Probably not even once a week.