yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] mandar999:
Email from HTC rep

I am a noob so thats that!!

I emailed HTC about the evo fps cap and got a reply right away. This is what it said.

"

I understand the importance of having the FPS cap removed from the HTC EVO 4G. Since the HTC EVO 4G employs a unique HDMI output to deliver video in HD quality to an external display, the hardware graphics driver interface on the HTC EVO 4G uses significant resources for the HDMI output and therefore displays graphics at 30 frames per second on the integrated display. This is a hardware limitation, and not software related. We did hear reports of a software hack claiming to deliver greater than 30 FPS performance; however, after investigating the hack, HTC has determined that the perceived frame rate increase was achieved by allowing data throughput to surpass the capability of the display interface – delivering a higher number on a benchmark test, but at the expense of image quality, which degrades to an unacceptable level as a result of data throughput surpassing the capability of the hardware. I hope we have answered your questions in detail.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

Sincerely,

Jeffery

HTC

"

* I edited out the ticket number.

Is this true for the netarchy or other kernels that uncap the fps??? Or is this true at all???
[EVO 4G General] treckin:
Wow this sucks. **** you if this is true HTC.

I guess that would mean that the hardware for the video output handles the screen itself and the hdmi output, and HTC went with the lowest common denominator when choosing the max throughput for the chip. I think the Hollywood standard for 720p video playback is 29 fps/hertz.

Way to skimp on the ONE thing that we all bought this phone for: the screen. You are lucky Motorola made the Droid2 suck.

/rant
[EVO 4G General] TheMagicalSock:
Sounds like BS to me. Unless it's some sort of unnoticeable difference in the software/hardware communication, I don't think that's right. Image quality seems to be the same. The uncapped FPS looks and performs great on Kings and Netarchy's kernels. Maybe somebody else has some more info?
[EVO 4G General] :
Cyanogen 6 has no fps limit, well it does but it's like 59. With snap kernel so beast. I could never go back to 30fps evo... that's disgusting.
[EVO 4G General] Success100:
im definately calling BS on this one as well, uncapped fps results in poor quality? LOL come the **** on HTC thats crazy, the fps cap is the one thing that would make me pick another phone over this had we not had these custom kernels. To most average users that may sound ridiculous, but such powerful hardware being gimped to 30fps when a damn mytouch can run 60fps consistently is complete bull****. No excuse for it. Motorola found a way to achieve 60fps implemented with HDMI, but HTC cant? Yeah, im calling BS on that
[EVO 4G General] dp92180:
Just rooted and let me tell you that uncapped FPS vs. stock is such a massive difference. I can't believe I've been living under a rock for the past few months. Thanks to unrevoked and nerarchy kernel life is amazing again!
[EVO 4G General] phatmanxxl:
I installed the netarchy kernal a few hours ago after reading this thread and ran the fps2d app and I can confirm the 58 average fps. Im also running calkulins (sp?) ROM also. I did play raging thunder and radio ball 3d and they look great. Overall its an improvement in the general performance of the phone.
[EVO 4G General] nfaust01:
I just ran the fps2d and i only get an avg of 49. I am running Baked Snack 1.7 with the stock kernal for that rom. Should i flash the nat kernal to get higher fps? I thought the baked kernal was based off of nats?
[EVO 4G General] ricsim78:
Hmm, I got a slightly different response. Seems like he is not sure whether it will ever be (officially) fixed by HTC themselves.

Dear Rick Simon,

I certainly understand you would prefer lifting the cap from 30 FPS, and I will be glad to discuss this with you. For the past several months, HTC has been investigating the possibilities of using software means to overcome a hardware limitation like this (and it is indeed a hardware limitation related to the HDMI). Clearly it is possible, as the hackers have done so. However, the means they use to do so are different from any that HTC would possibly implement (their custom kernels). I do not believe that there has been any official statement made one way or the other as to if the cap is going to be listed; from what I understand, the tests that our development department has run with a legitimate lifted cap showed an actual decrease in quality, so that method was not used. I do not know if there will be an update for this or not, but since this issue was first raised the 2.2 upgrade for the Evo was released and the cap was still in place. You can take that for what it's worth, and at this time the best recommendation I can make is to keep an eye out for any future updates or news about this. I apologize that I did not have a more absolute answer for you on this.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 10USCW39ENA000315.

Sincerely,

Philip
[EVO 4G General] :
T-Mobile myTouch HD

HTC Spark

If these two phones come out with the listed specs w/ HDMI ports and over 30fps then HTC can't argue hardware. Well they can but they'll look stupid doing it.Then again this isn't the first HTC phone I've had to hack to unleash it's true potential. Every time it's been the software that cripples the phone.

*can't post links yet so check pdadb.net
[EVO 4G General] :
I can safely vouch that the hack used makes it much much smoother.
[EVO 4G General] :
For the life of me I can't figure out what hardware limitation they're talking about. HTC was full of it when they said it was the HDMI chip (data sheet link posted below). Can't be the camera either (link below). It's not the panels either (link below). I know the GPU isn't the greatest but doubt that's it. The only hardware I can think of is ID10t programming module.:p

Links to specs sheets can be found here

http://www.htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Supersonic
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Well it seems like the 30FPS cap saga is coming to an end. Updated first post with awesome news :)
[EVO 4G General] ramiss:
Wow (referring to update on 1st post) So either they will be coming to my house and soldering new hardware or HTC is full of crap!
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Well to be honest HTC has always given conflicting responses regarding the real reason behind the cap. Some reps said it's a hardware limitation, others(Like an HTC engineer told me over the phone) said it was software. I'm enjoying my rooted phone with the 30fps already uncapped, but this is a real win for all people who don't even know what root is. Also, I'm curious to see HTC's implementation of the fix.
[EVO 4G General] novanosis85:
Awesome. Now we don't need any other kernels.
[EVO 4G General] gedster314:
deleted by poster
[EVO 4G General] :
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=8256019#post8256019

(sorry about cross linking threads)
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Well yes, it is the same thing. This "bug" is affecting the whole system. That is exactly our problem: Games are running faster on a 500mhz arm11 t-mobile G1 than on a 1ghz snap frickin' dragon Evo!

Unacceptable.
[EVO 4G General] pirokosan:
-- My Sprint Hero running 2.0d fresh rom oc'd to moderate with autokiller.

55

58

59

58

60

-- My Evo running stock rom oc'd to moderate with autokiller rooted with unrevoked.

30

30

30

30

30

My hero scrolls my apps flawlessly but ****s all over it'self with Zenonia

My Evo runs it like it was made for it (like a game console)
[EVO 4G General] clubtech:
Yep...it stutters a little. On my nexus it runs 100% smooth.

why does HTC always have to !@#$ it up with the graphics.
[EVO 4G General] RogerPodacter:
Yes the nexus is significantly smoother. I just went to sprint store and compared, and its totally like night and day difference to me.
[EVO 4G General] danknee:
Besides the Evo, HTC also makes the Nexus... Just sayin'
[EVO 4G General] pirokosan:
HTC didnt **** it's sense ui all over the Nexus... Just sayin'
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
HTC also made the Hero, and that's getting higher framerates than the Evo....Merely pointing out a coincidence that may or may not be beneficial to the discussion at hand.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
I have to confess, that made me LOL.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
could this also explain why the clock on the EVO doesnt flip, like it does on the HD2??..Anyone else notice that?
[EVO 4G General] Young_e:
android version of sense doesn't flip the clock nothing to do with fps
[EVO 4G General] Neotelos_com:
Engadget has this thread linked directly...just giving heads up for those that don't know.
[EVO 4G General] pirokosan:
What i mean to say is that those little extras just add more chances to break stuff (read bluetooth on anything sense ui). I love sense ui... but i like the icons / colors in vanilla better.
[EVO 4G General] lemonspeakers:
everyone here needs to stop letting engadget get to your head.
[EVO 4G General] eduardmc:
can a rom port from nexus one or incredible fix this?
[EVO 4G General] Dougie2187:
Personally, I don't see how it's a rom problem. I mean, I tested with those three roms that I linked to earlier. One was Froyo, one was AOSP, and one was just a modified stock rom. If I get the same problem on all of those, I can't imagine how a port from a N1 or Incredible will fix this issue.

The issue has to be in something that's constant between those. I don't even think the kernel is the same through those three, as I believe that avalaunch used a different kernel for the froyo rom.

As for the difference between the fps2d and quadrant, quadrant scores reflect a lot more than just the gpu. They do quite a bit of computation on the cpu as well. Granted the do score the gpu, so if the frame rate sucks, it will hurt the over all score. But you could still get a pretty decent score just from an awesome cpu.

fps2d stays to checking the frame rate on the graphics, which is what this issue relates to. So fps2d reflects more the data that we are interested in.

I'll try to take a look around today and see if I can find anything, but I don't know if I'll get any time.
[EVO 4G General] denny_1986:
someone needs to rip htc another crapper cuz this is just unacceptable.

i was contemplating which phone to buy b/w the EVO and the iphone but now this has made it so much easier for me. I went through this crap with the Tilt already and don't want to start all over again :mad:

btw, Motorola anounced a 2 Ghz smartphone with a nvidea chisept by the end of this year....thats some smartphone pr0n for all you ppl to fap to :rolleyes:
[EVO 4G General] hidavi:
There's nothing wrong with 30fps. 60fps would just reduce battery life while giving no actual advantage to functionality.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Im about to email Peter chou, HTC's CEO about this. I'm pretty sure he or someone at htc has already seen the articles(its on over 175 sites as of now), but with the current trend of CEOs answering emails, I wouldnt mind getting a more direct response.
[EVO 4G General] eduardmc:
can anyone tell me which rom is this. This is super fast in our Evo, the 7 deck card view move just like 60fps (yes i can tell between 30 and 60fps).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUjAxDlmTqs

i really don't care much about gaming but i don't mine getting this fix, but somehow i think is affecting the htc evo experience. i have been watching custom rom for the N1 and reviews of incredible and the speed for zoom in and out is amazing compare to the choppy HTC evo animation.

this rom since to start fixing most of the problems.

this is a second video showing the nexus one custom rom super smooth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKx0EH68pws
[EVO 4G General] abiezer:
Yes I see what you mean it is extremely fluid
[EVO 4G General] TorxT3D:
im only interested in how their method of uncapping differs from the likes of netarchy/toast/king

interested to see how this turns out.
[EVO 4G General] champ052005:
Soo, is this uncapping the graphics on both the screens? The Nova and Epson? A while back I know only one was able to be uncapped.

Or maybe I have outdated info??
[EVO 4G General] adeyo:
will it possibly work with hdmi out too??
[EVO 4G General] treckin:
I believe they responded to my earlier rant and found a way to put a square peg in a round hole.

Or they lied about the reason for the issue in the first place.

Or they lied and are code-jacking netarchy with this ota, seeing that people don't believe that the OS is reporting higher numbers falsely despite being physically limited to 29fps.
[EVO 4G General] novanosis85:
They get paid the big bucks, it sure will be better!

Old news, both screens can hit 60!

Of course it will. Why would HTC send an OTA that uncaps fps but breaks 4g?
[EVO 4G General] treckin:
Wow...
[EVO 4G General] Hrshycro:
And the latest htc kernel with fresh 3.2 is bomb on battery life. So this new one will be bombizzle.
[EVO 4G General] adeyo:
sorry, i don't quite understand...what does hdmi out have to do with 4g? i thought what was discovered earlier by the devs was that fps could be unlocked but the higher fps couldn't be utilized during hdmi out??
[EVO 4G General] dglowe343:
From what I've read, the cap only applied to screen display. It had nothing to do with our hdmi output. The first fixes broke 4g and hdmi cuz the developers didn't have the source code. That's the way I understood it.

Sent from my SUPERSONIC
[EVO 4G General] Success100:
yeah but HTC's supposed reason for the 30fps all stems from HDMI. Just about every other android device made by HTC that doesnt have HDMI runs 60fps
[EVO 4G General] scev5:
If this fix does come through everyone better send thankyou emails and let them no you will be return customers because of their continued support of their devices and for listening to custumers.
[EVO 4G General] Success100:
i agree and also disagree..

i disagree because they shouldnt have put the damn cap on there in the first place.

I agree because it shows that they actually have their ears to the streets and either are trying to make its customers happy, or either trying to avoid some type of class action lawsuit lol
[EVO 4G General] dglowe343:
They do offer better support than, oh let's say.......... Samsung, but its kind of late considering most of us have been uncapped for quite some time thanks to toast, net, etc. They weren't getting the big bucks from HTC to do it either.

Sent from my SUPERSONIC
[EVO 4G General] :
Man that's great.

Would I lose root?
[EVO 4G General] Shyfe:
if you did an OTA update from your phone instead of downloading and flashing a rooted ROM, probably.
[EVO 4G General] :
Alas, my root high of 10 mins has just been shattered.
[EVO 4G General] xlGmanlx:
i would assume so unless told otherwise. Historically this community has been really quick with major releases officially released and not, so hold tight and you will keep root and get the goodness (because HTC is obligated i think to post all their changes) shortly without the wait like 2.1 - 2.2
[EVO 4G General] cosine83:
Well, if you rooted using unrevoked 3.21 w/ S-OFF, you have a very high chance of being able to re-root after the OTA.
[EVO 4G General] novanosis85:
I had a brain fart.......
[EVO 4G General] ritzbrie:
If you have S-OFF it shouldn't be an issue to re-root.
[EVO 4G General] greyopaque:
Are the updates incremental? Can I just flash this over 1.47 (when the rooted ROM comes out)? Or, do I have to do the previous update first? Logically, it seems like I can, if flashing overwrites the current image, but I'm not sure since data remains intact.

I haven't gone to Froyo yet since streaming audio is broken on the stock image, and I prefer remaining as stock as possible.
[EVO 4G General] dp92180:
I just rooted using 3.21 and then flashed a new kernel. I understand that I would potentially lose root by updating, but would there be a problem updating because I am running a different kernel now?

Sorry for the noob question.
[EVO 4G General] randymac88:
Sorry folks, the new OTA containing an uncapped 60fps update to me seems like a bogus rumor, based on Sprint's changelog:

http://support.sprint.com/support/a...e-wh164052-20100527-115429?&INTNAV=SU:DP:HDIA

The rumor, which appears here:

http://forum.sdx-developers.com/news/new-ota-out-92210-3-29-651-5/

Appears to be doctored. I will believe it when I see it.
[EVO 4G General] dmystic1:
I think we should just wait for the update and not jump to conclusions.
[EVO 4G General] randymac88:
Works for me if it works for everyone else.
[EVO 4G General] Shyfe:
I agree. I personally think that there's not enough changes listed for a nearly 2 month release period.
[EVO 4G General] Itchiee:
Correct.

The fact that person knew it was coming, the version number, and two of the fixes shouldn't be discounted.

It may still be included, but intentionally left off the list....
[EVO 4G General] corybucher:
I agree with that, hopefully when this finally gets released they will update there update.
[EVO 4G General] m4rk0358:
Why would people who have already rooted even care if this rumor was true? What's there to gain?
[EVO 4G General] jahnile:
Although most of us with rooted ph already have the cap unlock but it would still be great news to have it officially..
[EVO 4G General] dmystic1:
lol I'd be happy with just the GMAIL sync fix.

Was also thinking....the developers are working with a leaked 3.28 version, right? That version had some changes, and I would assume since the released version will be 3.29, they would have incorporated those changes also. I say all this because the current change log that is posted doesn't show whatever the changes were in 3.28 either. I think you guys get my point? lol I woke up early.
[EVO 4G General] superlinkx:
Because everyone roots for different reasons. Some of us like to use completely stock Roms and kernels, and root just for basic clean up, tethering, and other root apps. I've tried some of the FPS cap breakers and they work, but I always had one issue or another, as well as graphics tearing. An official fix means that the kernel will work without having to hack the FPS cap off, which means that custom kernels will be able to enhance it further than they can currently. It also means that custom kernels won't have to break things like HDMI to get the FPS unlocked.

There's always good reasons for updates, even if you use custom Roms. Other things in this update fix bugs, like the sound issues, so that's also a plus.
[EVO 4G General] m4rk0358:
Thanks for edumacating me. :)
[EVO 4G General] greyopaque:
UnrEVOked just confirmed fps uncap on one test device.
[EVO 4G General] techs1200:
Is there a stock rom out yet that incorporates this HTC FPS fix?
[EVO 4G General] eniamg02:
Yes it is rumored that todays update fixes fps or not fixes but uncaps.
[EVO 4G General] BIGDINOG:
So what happens if I update. I am rooted via unrevoked, do I loose root? I am on the stock 3.28 which works wonderfully with great battery life on the latest HTC kernal. I mainly a stock guy, but like my rooting for tethering and such. Thanks
[EVO 4G General] bash78:
EVO update uncaps FPS to 53

GUY'S CHECK THIS OUT:

EVO update uncaps FPS to 53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGlEQdmjcUY
[EVO 4G General] eduardmc:
Be carefull, if you update unrooted you phone will .................................:eek:
[EVO 4G General] prjkthack:
Just tweeted from @sprint:

HTC Evo Maintenance Release (minor) Changelog, install instructions here http://bit.ly/9vrY3v

So its officially "released" you could say, just gotta wait for it to be available for your phone since they are probably releasing it in stages.
[EVO 4G General] MSmith1:
Wait, so HTC's fix for the FPS cap is WORSE than the so called "hack" fix.

LMAO.
[EVO 4G General] donatom3:
what are you talking about? The test gave a 8 fps average one time, he even noted it was something cuz of lag. The next test showed a 53 average with a 7.00 stdev.
[EVO 4G General] MSmith1:
Your post proves my point. Was that your intention?
[EVO 4G General] :
53fps dev7 is worse than any of the rom/kernel tests I've run. CM6 so far seems the best and runs 54 dev2 on a fresh install. I actually have to screw things up to get dev7.
[EVO 4G General] donatom3:
Your stock roms were running more than 53fps?
[EVO 4G General] MSmith1:
Did you even read my post before you jumped in to ask ME what I was talking about?
[EVO 4G General] donatom3:
I'm going to my corner now sorry.
[EVO 4G General] MSmith1:
It's all good.

Also, as you pointed out, his first test run produces an FPS of 8. 8! With a STDEV of 46! Running a custom kernel, I would have to be playing multiplayer Halo Reach on a humongous Forge map literally on my Evo while running FPS2D to produce that type of "lag".

Also, I find it way too coincidental that HtC's "fix" averages the same amount of fps as the "hack". If it were truly fixed the Evo would average 60 fps like the nexus.
[EVO 4G General] catpunt:
That is only because he didn't restart the test by touching the screen when he ran fps2d. If there was a prior test in progress in fps2d it doesn't restart it when you run it again, you have to touch the screen to restart it to get an accurate average. So that first number invalid. Try it yourself i you don't believe me, run fps2d then before the test finishes hit the home screen, then run fps2d again and you will get a wacky fps.
[EVO 4G General] MSmith1:
I didnt see him do that.
[EVO 4G General] donatom3:
I always hit the screen right after starting fps2d to get it to restart the test. The first test will always who lower. It's starts counting right away giving no time to the cpu to scale up to full speed.
[EVO 4G General] TorxT3D:
i run fps2d 3 times in a row, like every other benchmark because the scores get better with each pass sometimes, like quadrant for example.
[EVO 4G General] jcalba89:
**** the update. Hows that for a reply?
[EVO 4G General] catpunt:
right at 0:39 he taps the screen to get a fresh restart
[EVO 4G General] eduardmc:
i believe that with this new updated kernel reaching 53fps, that hack team can easily had the xtra 7fps to reach 60fps. do not worry. with manage with the cap to reach 55fps, thats an xtra 25fps without htc help.
[EVO 4G General] netarchy:
What's particularly curious is that benchmark is suspiciously on par to the framerate achieved with our fps fix (particularly the epson) that preserved HDMI functionality.

Without HDMI it was actually possible to get the framerate around 57-58 (at least on the epson panels).

;D
[EVO 4G General] hdad2:
This is assuming HTC did not use the same method(s) to achieve the framerate as the devs. I am VERY interested to find out where they applied the fix. For some time now it has been determined that the cap was not in the kernel. So did they break the cap in the radio? Could be that a few kernel tweaks on top of their fix would make magic happen.
[EVO 4G General] cadbomb:
Well, if this is in fact the case, then I would imagine that we wouldn't be able to use any of the currently available kernels that are utilizing the FPS unlock, which basically changes the rate at which data is refreshed on the screen. That could prove to be a disastrous effect by combining the two methods (theoretical statement).
[EVO 4G General] MSmith1:
If it comes out that htc is "borrowing" your work, I demand a "thanks netarchy" somewhere!
[EVO 4G General] hdad2:
My guess is we'll have a good long wait before the source is released. Hope I'm wrong tho.
[EVO 4G General] joackie27:
Rooted and DeOdexed in this thread.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=789913
[EVO 4G General] randymac88:
Hey Netarchy - thanks for all of your great work on this stuff. Any chance you would put out a kernel that achieves the 57-58 without the hdmi? I never use the hdmi out, and would love the increased framerate. That would be awesome!
[EVO 4G General] treckin:
But where is the update for Unrooted people?? Gah Sprint!