yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] Pops_G:
I got the standard canned response.

I am not sure if this is a good thing or not, but they did remove the "As designed" part of it. That might mean they understand they might not want to be taking credit for that type of thing. They spun it like it was done to benefit us.

Keep pressing guys, this is how companies work. It will slowly trickle to the people who make the calls.

CS Rep to manager "I got hundreds of emails today about the 30fps issue".

Manager to bigger fish "My people are wasting lots of time on this issue, we should try and resolve it".
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
Alright i'll keep pushing too, every time they send a reply, i'll send one back. XDA, GET ONN THISSSS
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
They seem to like that line about it being their "stance". The last response I got ended like this:

"HTC is always looking to improve the overall performance of our devices and when this happens our Engineers can opt to make changes like the FPS, however, this is HTC’s stance on the issue."

I didn't understand what "stance" they were taking, as my previous response to them just mentioned that I was disappointed that the EVO was not performing as well as other Android phones (including those made by HTC). And, that I hoped they were working to fix it.

So is their stance that they are "looking to improve the overall performance"? In the context of our conversation "this is HTC’s stance on the issue", is a total non sequitur, which makes me think it was just copied out of some internal memo.
[EVO 4G General] Adanedhels:
Hey also add Heavy Gunner to the list of laggy games....

I've also heard Caligo Chaser is also effected...
[EVO 4G General] roybotnik:
Cool story bro. It must be pretty awesome fighting to defend a phone on the internet.

Since I actually paid for my phone and it's artificially crippled, I'm returning it. Simple as that.
[EVO 4G General] daneurysm:
It pains me to say it, but, after reading that above linked site regarding HTC's past actions regarding (a damn near identical) performance issues I think I will be returning mine as well.

The screen is the perfect size and shape (sorry, those new droids are just narrow and ugly, not to mention far too bulky looking), the processor just screams. But the half-assed video performance (that has been severely outclassed by my Samsung moment(!)) it just insulting. Even more insulting is HTC's responses and lack of action.

After lurking around here for the past 6 months I have not a doubt in my mind that this *will* be resolved to my satisfaction, but I simply cannot allow a company to get my hard earned money by lying. I was promised a world class flagship pack leading Android phone (if only for a few weeks...just the same), instead I got an awesome screen and a killer processor that I wasn't given permission to see the full potential of for a mere $500.

"It's a phone! Get over it" ?? Sorry, It's supposed to be a premium device yet it's video performance is being outclassed by 2 year old devices that weren't even intended to be top performers in their day.

That's not what I paid for.

I will be sure to make sure Sprint knows this, I will be sure that I let HTC know (not that I think they give a **** in the first place) and I will probably go for a Samsung Galaxy S...from my Moment days I know that Samsung support will be slow and immediately dwindling, but I also know I will get the product I was promised, and that's to say nothing of the fantastic dev community here. Kudos to you all. YOU are what make Android fun...I was tricked into believing it was the impressive devices. Shame on them.
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
Will do. Doing it now.
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
Tell this guy to run Doodle Jump and Air Hockey on the N1 then the EVO. That alone will get this guy to concur with us tech geeks.
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
Don't want to lose this guy with Asking to doing tests. Lol
[EVO 4G General] scev5:
To you guys returning place make sure to tel htc why
[EVO 4G General] bsanti:
Just played Asphalt 5 on an iphone 3g and then the Evo. Couldn't tell the difference. Was having too much fun playing the game. However, the experience on the Evo's larger screen made it more enjoyable to play.

Didn't bother reading the entire thread. The Evo is an awesome device, letting a few negative articles sway your thinking is simply saddening.
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
Got a reply from James (product support manager of HTC):

Mr. Thornton,

Thank you for your feedback.

HTC confirms that fps is capped at 30 fps. The examples of games affected by this limitation you have provided is sufficient for investigations.

Regards,

James
[EVO 4G General] roybotnik:
Nobody cares about how much it impacted or didn't impact your experience. That would be a great argument if you got this phone for free and wanted to prove to people that it was a great value.

The thing that is bothering us non-fanboys is the fact that HTC purposefully crippled the EVO. I paid money for two top of the line android phones and I expect them to be as such. I don't want some ridiculous artificial limitation built into the software for some bogus reason.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Holy crap, an actual response from an actual human being! Only thing is, did he mention some sort of upcoming fix?
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
Man I hope so. I will be staying in touch.
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
I will send Mr. James Black a fruit basket and a hooker if he gets HTC to fix this issue in the first Maintenance Release.
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
He likes chocolate chip muffins. Hahaha
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
Official xda 30 fps ultimatum thread

Simple concept:

I have mostly enjoyed this phone, but due to QC issues (already exchanged it once) and this artificial 30fps cap, I have decided on a personal ultimatum-- as a new Sprint customer, I will give HTC/Sprint as much of my remaining 30 days as I can to come up with a solution. If they do, great, I'm thrilled and will keep the phone. If not, too bad for both companies; I will no longer be a customer. So long and thanks for a free month that showed promise but ultimately disappointed.

Don't get me wrong, as many have said I WANT to love this phone. But I will vote with my wallet on this one-- fix it or lose a customer.

If you agree, feel free to cast a vote, draft a form letter, etc here, and if you have another reason, voice it here.

In the meantime, here's hoping it doesn't come to that.
[EVO 4G General] sd2649:
Guys! (and gals). The 30fps cap is nothing to worry about. Run the 3d benchmark yourself! 30fps is super smooth. And the cap let's the gpu rest! Think how bad the battery life would be without that! Yeah, you can't score the highest benchmark, but the gpu will still be taxed 100% when the next huge step in gaming comes to android, then all the phones will be hitting 30fps. A framerate limit does not = poor performance. And to anyone who says "look how much smoother the nexus looks in this YouTube comparison video" yeah, that video itself is like 15fps, how can you tell?
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
Ultimatum thread if anyone feels the same way I do:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=6839597#post6839597
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
wrong, youtube videos run at 29.9x fps, just on that statement alone you are silly. Please go play some doodle jump, air hockey, or even homerun battle on a EVO and say the 30fps cap is "super smooth".
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
Great idea, but I doubt that'll resolve anything. I am sure HTC knows they have plenty of dissatisfied customers at this point and Sprint is quite unhappy about this as well. Sit it out, take a breather and come back on the 28th or 29th day of your 30 day period. If there is no resolve, return the device. Let your wallet and Sprint's lost revenue speak.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
Don't see why HTC can't add a setting to toggle 30fps cap with an indication that battery life may suffer if the setting is turned off. Everyone wins.
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
That's pretty much the plan. =)
[EVO 4G General] biscodude:
I don't get the big deal about this. Movies are filmed at 24FPS. Can our eyes even see more than 30FPS? What are the advantages of having our devices do more than 30FPS other than to get good benchmarking scores?
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
you are clearly blind or stupid. Watch a sporting event on ESPN, then watch your favorite movie on DVD/BD. Notice the difference? kthxbye
[EVO 4G General] acrh2:
I don't mean to troll or bait or anything, but this is ridiculous. If YOU don't know Anything, stay out of discussion.

To OP: I'll support 100%!

EDIT: you should have said "we will return and cancel our evos/plans". After all, there's no penalty with the 30-day return policy. And there are plenty more powerful devices coming in the future - announced (like Samsung Galaxy or Droid X) or unannounced.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
+1

also I think I should get to politely kick the next person in this thread that tells me that 30fps is just fine (or that is all the evo can do because of the resolution)...

hint: if it's fine for you ... then you are probably not utilizing anything that would utilize more than 30fps and/or you are ... oblivious...which is fine....but seriously either do some research and/or don't post in this thread. :eek:
[EVO 4G General] biscodude:
It was an honest and reasonable question. No need to be dicks.
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
have you done what I asked you to do? Do you still think our eyes can interpret "up to" 30 fps? Why do you think they make 120hz HDTVs and it's light years better than the standard 60hz HDTVs as long as the source is outputting the correct framerate. It's not an honest or reasonable question.
[EVO 4G General] k2snowboards88:
Filmed and digitally captured video has motion blur that makes 24fps seem palatable to the human eye. 3d animated movies add motion blur in after for that reason. Real time computer generated graphics don't work that way. If you have ever seen a video game running at 30fps and then seen the same game running at 60fps, you would know the difference. More importantly, look at how an iphone looks when it is scrolling through a long list, then look at the evo. By comparison, the eveo looks like a cheap pos when it scrolls through lists, which it shouldn't.
[EVO 4G General] netarchy:
Yes our eyes can, through strictly speaking the eye does not see in "frames per second."

Movies are filmed at 24fps and you can definitely tell the difference between a film and a video that runs at 30+.

It's paradoxical why people seem to prefer the 24fps film for video vs higher framerates (yes actual studies have been done to the effect, higher framerates in video tend to be regarded as "cheap" looking).

I really wish people would stop bringing this up, it's been brought up countless times now and refuted every time with good reason. It works for film, it does NOT work for a UI or games.

Advantages of having higher framerates include (but are not necessarily limited to):

1. Things are bloody SMOOTH. Like it or not people ARE seeing choppiness where there should be none. This is a framerate issue plain and simple.

2. Breathing room for framerate fluctuation. While 30fps is generally regarded as the point where "smooth" happens, when you're locked at 30 fps, changes in video can cause this framerate to fluctuate, dropping it below the perceptual smoothness line (ie; choppy).
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
assassins creed, gangstarr, asphalt, raging thunder, exzeus all run perfect. Doodle jump is bad port, havent tried homerun

what im pissed about is the touchscreen lag..now that needs a huge thread and a bunch of complaints.i agree this isnt acceptable but i really cant tell and i had a nexus one
[EVO 4G General] biscodude:
Thanks guys for answering my question. That does make sense. So do you guys think our batteries would drain a lot faster if that limit wasn't in place? Either way, I guess it's messed up that they would limit this device like that. At least give us the option to turn off the limitation if we want.

I'm still happy as **** with my EVO and don't really get how this could be a deal breaker for some, but to their own I suppose.
[EVO 4G General] >MR.T:
Cant we all just get along ?

Please quit JERKIN this is usually a very civalized and entertaining place to LEARN.
[EVO 4G General] Freelancerx:
funny thing is that most bluray movies play at 24 hrz on tv's...in fact thats a *gasp* feature of being able to watch a movie at 1080p rez since you will be watching it at the same refresh rate as when it was displayed in the movie theater....

time to learn something...

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ:_Whats_the_Big_Deal_About_1080p24/1015

but anyway im glad for you OP im interested to see how many people actually put their money where their mouth is :):):)
[EVO 4G General] daneurysm:
The articles haven't swayed me. I noticed this myself before I even picked up my Evo. It *is* an awesome device, I agree. But it isn't the level of 'awesome' that I was promised. I can deal with the HD video being absolute ****, I can deal with Sense being a bloated ugly cow of a UI, I can deal with the horrid battery life (as I said, I came from a Samsung Moment, lol), I can deal with the 16-bit color, I can deal with the 8mp camera looking pretty crappy, I can deal with the automatic gain control on the mic rendering it's cd-quality recording capabilities absolutely worthless (the Moment also schools it here), I can deal with all of these things. They are mostly software/configuration based and will be dealt with accordingly. But the video driver or firmware limit (or whatever the **** is holding us at 30fps) that is holding us back from achieving frame rates that 2 other phones WITH ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL HARDWARE CPU/GPU/RESOLUTION I cannot abide by.

Iphone killer? Maybe if they had that slick super-fluid motion on video. Which they would if we weren't capped at 30fps. HTC ****ed us, and by returning our phones we're sending them the message that we are not willing to pay for being ****ed. This thing, in motion, next to an iphone or incredible looks like a hackjob with a huge screen.

Have you ever hooked up with a hot dumb bimbo with huge cans? It's nice, it's fun...but what if you had to 'just talk' to her?

...right now we've been forced into an extended political discussion with that woman, and it ****ing blows.

However if you want to defend being screwed over, by all means...carry on.
[EVO 4G General] biscodude:
And now I'll go back to lurking before I make an ass out of myself again. :-)
[EVO 4G General] Freelancerx:
even cooler story bro thanks for following my advice.
[EVO 4G General] mrono:
30fps is not fine, and I bought a high end device because it's just that, a high end device. Same reason I buy a high end car, because I want it to perform, not get a brand new v12 with dual turbos and find out it's governed at 80mph
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
Sorta like that "power" button on the M5 that I leave on permanently. Anyway, this would be a great option to appease the folk who complain about battery life (if it's even as big an issue as HTC makes it out to be).
[EVO 4G General] CentroniX:
Cracks me up... Five years ago, we couldn't have even hoped to hold a device in our hands that is as capable in so many aspects as the Evo. And with all the power you have in your hands, you're willing to ditch it all because of one single issue! Oh, and an exact issue we've seen before on another device that was eventually fixed. Might I also add that you went out and bought a brand new device as soon as the product launched, and are now expecting, no, demanding, that it be 100% perfect in every ****ing aspect possible. Those of us who have been in the tech industry (myself for the last twenty years) typically know that a first run device, and probably the second, isn't without issue.

I say don't even wait (and *****) for the next X days left in your trial period. Return your device tomorrow morning as soon as the store nearest you opens up; That'll free up a few devices for those not fortunate enough to have gotten one at launch and haven't been able to purchase one due to availability; Or those who have a more important problem, such as a display separating.

If you honestly think that a handful of you "voting with your wallets" on a device that sold hundreds-of-thousands on opening weekend, not including the recurring revenue they will generate in service over the next two years, will suddenly make HTC and/or Sprint drop everything they're doing and work on this single issue, you are surely kidding yourselves.

Good luck to you!!
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
And someone needs to read. I stated that the difference between 60hz and 120hz is dependent on the source. There will be a significant difference if the source output will support it on the correct TV.
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
Enjoy being walked on and making excuses for the people doing it to you.

(My screen is separating too.)
[EVO 4G General] CentroniX:
I dont consider myself being walked on. Personally, I could care less about this issue. I don't play video games on the device, nor do I even care to watch a movie in 1080p-omfg-bluray-rolfcopter quality on a 4.3" screen. I have a $10,000 entertainment system to do that on.

Any way, not trying to belittle you (or anyone else). You're free to have your own opinions and act on them accordingly! I just simply find it amusing.

Carry on, good luck with your mission!

cent
[EVO 4G General] daneurysm:
i have already described my discontent in another thread i will definitely e sticking to this ultimatum If this thing doesn't get resolved in the next 30 days
[EVO 4G General] Freelancerx:
you know what im thinking.... they must have imposed that cap because of FROYO...

video is from this post

comparison test

hear me out, if froyo is supposed to be SOOO much better and faster as we can clearly see in the video, then perhaps HTC has done internal testing that shows that the phone can be capped at 30fps and STAY at 30fps once froyo is running on it. that way they can save battery by keeping the performance level at a certain point. at least thats what im thinking....but what do i know i work at the zoo sweeping up the peanut shells that are given to the elephants....
[EVO 4G General] roybotnik:
Good lord I'm sick of seeing arguments over whether 30 or 60 fps actually matters. WHAT DOES MATTER is that HTC crippled our phones for no tangible reason. The battery life claim is bogus.

OP, I plan on doing the same thing. I just can't imagine holding onto it for another 1-2 years if it's crippled. People act like it's OK to just let it slide - I wonder how they would feel a year from now if no fix is ever found.
[EVO 4G General] acrh2:
Start a sign-up petition.
[EVO 4G General] roybotnik:
Dude, this is HTC we're talking about. They **** out a new phone every week. They aren't going to do any sort of crazy development or testing...just look at how buggy and terrible Sense is.
[EVO 4G General] redct:
There might not be any need for a petition or for people to return their phones so soon.

I got a response from HTC saying that they have my request and it will be posted. :D From there, we'll see what magic XDA can work. We got root in a week, who knows what we can do with full source?
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Crossposted to keep everyone apprised of the situation. If unnecessary, mods, please delete this.

There might not be any need to get up in arms or for people to return their phones so soon.

I got a response from HTC saying that they have my request and it will be posted. :D From there, we'll see what magic XDA can work. We got root in a week, who knows what we can do with full source? Plus, I haven't even gotten a response from HTC exec support yet...
[EVO 4G General] CentroniX:
The issue is one of perspective. The ones arguing noticing the difference in 30 vs 60 FPS are the ones who the issue doesn't matter to them. Personally, and I only speak for myself, is that it's not an issue to me. I could care less if a fix is ever developed. It is a non-existant factor for me, because of the way I intend to use the device. If it's a deal breaker for you, then that's exactly what it is!

My issue with the whole deal is that it's not like the device was advertised at doing more than 30FPS and you then found out it didn't perform as advertised. There are a few people that you can dig up their posts from the first few days, where they were so excited and loved the device; Then someone posts about the issue, and now they feel they've been screwed and are demanding an immediate "fix" or they're walking. A post was already made with a response from HTC, stating that it was the way the device was designed. A fix is only made to address a flaw in the device. If it was actually designed that way, the manufacturer won't consider it a flaw and therefore not invest in developing a fix.

Any way, sorry if my original post ruffled any feathers. You guys have your opinion and I have mine. You all are sick of some arguing the noticeable difference, and some of us are sick of hearing about your perceived problem. I guess we all just need to remember that all of our needs are different, and what's important to some will not be important to another. I can't blame anyone for not wanting to investing hundreds of dollars in a device that doesn't meet their expectation.

Good luck guys!

cent
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
I'm pretty positive this will not be fixed in 30 days. Eventually we will get it fixed regardless of htc doing it or not. So if this is the deal breaker then don't let it go pass your thirty days.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
That is great news! Well done.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
I think we might be able to fix it within 30 days :D
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I'd like to see if someone with a Droid with the 2.1 update @30 fps is also noticing the touch lag like it is in the multitouch vis test on the Evo. Anyone?
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Speaking of touch lag; I did a test on my Evo and it seems that it's lag free. Google I/O (HW ver 002) Evo running DC2.1. Could it just be that the 'general release' batch of Evos (003) is incredibly crappy? It seems all of the problems—from touch screen to light leakage to reception to glass—have been with the 003 hardware.
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
I would be shocked to have source inside of 30 days. I doubt that is going to happen but I'll be jumping just as high as everyone else if it does.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I have 0002 HW version I got on release day. Try moving one finger quickly in the Multitouch Vis Test and you'll see what I'm saying. The dot lags behind quite a bit.
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
No, I have an I/O Evo as well and I have lag
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Well, who knows?

That quote from the letter I got makes it sound like they're going to move pretty quickly on this, but HTC is a big company and they usually move pretty slowly. Let's hope that they aren't running on Valve time. :D
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
They were actually quick to release the kernel source for the HTC desire on verizon. Also, they are REQUIRED by the GPL license to release source immediately. Or else they are legally liable.
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
The input lag is more of a deal breaker to me, but I'd like to see both fixed or I'm with you on Sprint losing a customer and me returning the Evo.
[EVO 4G General] oxeneers:
I'd like to see the 30FPS cap fixed also, but putting up threads like this on XDA doesn't fix a damned thing. And, trust me, I don't think HTC or Sprint care about you as a customer. Telcos have grown so large they couldn't care any less about just one measly customer who's got a bitter feeling because there is a 30FPS cap and because of a few QC issues.

This is a great phone. Sprint is a fantastic network and they are extremely affordable. That's all there is to it. Don't want it? Don't like it? Then, see ya.