yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
yes, it wasn't advertised to run at over 30 fps, but the hardware is known to run at certain speed on other phones. so it would be natural for this phone to perform just as well but with a larger screen. google even stated that their goal for android is to run at 60fps.

people don't realize what's wrong with the phone at first and notice the flaws later. playing games wasn't the first thing i did. i browsed the web at the store using dolphin hd and noticed it was a bit choppy. i thought it was just a bad phone. after buying it and then trying some gaming a few days later i noticed how terribly it performed in games. toon wars runs very nice on my droid, but is completely unplayable on my evo.

since you can care less then please do and leave the thread.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
Agreed that this thread is pointless and won't change a thing. I believe (and probably Sprint as well) these pledges and ultimatums about as much as I believe it when teens pledge celibacy. ;)

However, since the gadget blogs have already run the 30FPS story, I guarantee that Sprint has already lost some potential customers. They know that there is certainly some negative feelings out there about their product. And of course they also know that if they can make those issues disappear, they may get some of those customers back. Sprint needs for this flagship product to have a good image. It won't achieve the halo effect otherwise.
[EVO 4G General] CentroniX:
Haha, no problem bud. I mistakenly forgot that this is a public forum for people to share their thoughts and opinions. Cheers! ;)
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
try playing toonwarz on both devices. guess which one you won't be able to play it on because of poor framerates?
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
"I'm leaving....I really mean it....seriously guys....I'm leaving...this time it's it"...as he walks backwards as slowly as he can.
[EVO 4G General] acrh2:
You don't get it, do you? A lot of people ARE going to walk away. And popular web sites are going to blow it wide open.

There will be better devices in a matter of a few weeks. Evo people will walk, sites will report on it, and HTC will lose money. Remember? It's a 30 day money back deal for EVERY evo owner.
[EVO 4G General] spiicytuna:
I find it funny how much noise people make before they return their phones. It's like they want us all to say "Nooo don't go! we'll fix it" or whatever. If I was returning my phone I know I could find better things to do with my time than (a) surf around the forums, and (b) post things. Too funny.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
They do it because they want other people to do it with them. And frankly, if there really were huge waves of people returning their phone, either Sprint or HTC WOULD fix it. It just isn't likely that so many people will actually return their phones. When confronted with a difficult decision where one choice requires action and the other requires no action, most people will choose the latter.

Oh, and pot meet kettle. :p
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
While it was not specifically stated, it is implied. This is Sprint's flag ship smart phone for God's sake. It has plenty of horsepower to spit out 60FPS with ease. No one would have guessed that the issues we would be facing would be related to frame rate or input lag - give me a break.

If someone advertises a brand new 50 megapixel Digital SLR you will assume it takes color photos, right? What happens when you get it home and it only takes photographs in sepia? You weren't mislead, because they only advertised 50 megapixels! Shame on you for assuming they would be color photographs. That's how we feel - duped by HTC/Sprint.
[EVO 4G General] spiicytuna:
ahh the ole adage of: "everyone's doing it..." :D:D
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
no one bought this phone with the hopes of returning it. they're hoping someone (htc maybe) might step in and convince them to keep the phone.

i find it kind of hard to pay $1878.76 (eprp, not incl tax) for phone service and crippled smart phone. i can't even get a signal at home with the evo.

we were expecting to fall in love with the phone and are now quite disappointed. so we come here to vent with other feeling the same disappointment. if you're happy with your phone then start an "i'm happy" thread instead of trying to convince us that we shouldn't have any issue with the phone's faults.

it doesn't seem like you can find very many better things to do since you're here posting anyways, lol.
[EVO 4G General] :
Is your guy's hope really with HTC? I am waiting for some low level people to fix it...
[EVO 4G General] berardi:
Sent an email to HTC. great thread.
[EVO 4G General] mrmomoman:
I have the 002 version of the EVO 4G and I ran the test and there is no LAG. I follows my fingers perfectly. No skipping, no lagging behind. Very smooth.

Running Fresh .03 ROM with updates.
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
That's interesting, could mean a possible defect instead of a driver issue. Can you make a video?
[EVO 4G General] Freelancerx:
you should know that no one around here believes you until you make a video....
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
Not that I don't believe him, it's that I want to make sure he is reporting the same issue everyone else is :)
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I don't believe this, but I am downloading Fresh .03 right now anyway and will let you guys know.
[EVO 4G General] eck0728:
Hello,

I recently bought an EVO 4g from Sprint with high hopes and expectations for the phone. Sadly so far there have been two major issues with the phone. Firstly is the 30FPS cap on the graphic processing of the phone. I want to be able to play games on my phone like I am able to on my iPod touch. This is a big drawback to the phone and I am considering returning the phone and getting a Iphone4 since they seem to not cap graphics on their devices. My second problem is Wi-Fi, the signal is horrible, I stand 5 feet away from my router and the signal strength is at 1 - 2 bars rather than 3. I've tried every configuration i can think of on my router. I honestly hope that you will make some changes to the device software in order to address these issues, this is a great phone with great potential but it is being hindered by unnecessary limitations to the system.

Thank you,

XXXXXXXXXXX

(end e-mail)

NVM im on 003 hardware
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
I think the touch sensor lag is becoming an even bigger issue for me then even the 30fps cap.
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
even the droid with froyo has lag. i really can't tell if it's less since the screen is so much smaller thane the evo. what i can tell is that the ball follows more smoothly since it doesn't have the 30fps lock.

i'd guess the lag is required b/c if the device followed your finger in real time there'd be a lot of choppy erratic movements.

by spacing the reads apart it can draw the straightest line from one input to the next.

btw using fresh .03 on the evo.
[EVO 4G General] bob13bob:
start a online petition.

go iphone4. apple control sucks but jailbreaking solves that.
[EVO 4G General] kennyc1:
no. my iphone 2g can do smooth gfx without choppy erratic movements.

It is possible on a 2 years + old phone.
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
That obviously didn't get anywhere. I really wish HTC would release an official statement on this. Judging from the more personal (personal sounding, though still canned) responses others have gotten from Dan Hesse's office, it seems like they're at least working on it but an official statement would at least provide some comfort. And maybe stop people from returning the phones prematurely.
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
I'm curious-- what's the likelihood that this issue will be cracked by the wonderful devs here on xda? and if it's likely, what would you think the timetable would be?

as I mentioned in another thread, I WANT to love this phone, and in many ways I do. the hope that maybe people who actually care to fix this issue (read: not HTC) might actually do it is the light in the tunnel for me at this point.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Ok so I installed Fresh 0.3 and the FPS is still capped at 30 and the display still lags behind my finger. Dude doesn't know what he's talking about.
[EVO 4G General] nestersan:
Sprint Just called me.

Basically, she told me that HTC told her that the lock is a HARDWARE limitation due to the HDMI output, and was not addressable by patch or otherwise, so there is nothing that is doable.

So I asked her what are they going to say when the DROID-X launches and has no such limitation. So she said she can see my point, becuase it will look bad on HTC if a competitors phone can do what theirs cannot, but she has to go with what HTC said.

She said she has had many complaints about the lock, and the "Hardware Limitation based on the HDMI RGB" is what they said
[EVO 4G General] Jykinturah:
As it was mentioned before, developers need the kernel source code in order to even KNOW if it is possible to remove the cap.

There has been some mumblings from HTC about releasing the source, so until then, I recommend everyone sit tight.

Source code release will help everything a lot.
[EVO 4G General] ttieder:
Is the cap fix able or are we going to be stuck with only 30fps

I hope it can get fixed if. Not going to. Have to return
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
seriously? can you read?

literally one post above yours.
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
i've got the ipod touch 2g, same hardware w/o the phone and it definitely has a lag also. it's waaaaayyyy less obvious on the droid and evo however. could possibly be due to the resolution and lot due to the quality of the hardware. then again could it be the os has something to do with finger position updates?
[EVO 4G General] drbadass:
EDIT: nvm, i see it.

For those talking about the touch lag, do you use swype? I only ask because I do use it and the line seems to follow my finger completely real time. I might be crazy though.
[EVO 4G General] Vinny75:
Why do I have a sinking feeling they are going to wait until after July 4 (30 day return window expired for most of us) to release the source so we can verify this...
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
the motoroi/sholes has hdmi out. any idea if there's a frame rate lock on it? i did a quick search but couldn't find anything, most likely due to the motoroi being a korean phone.
[EVO 4G General] kennyc1:
This thread covered the part about resolution. I think it's not unreasonable to expect more resolution without lag when you are comparing phones that has 2+ years gap.

To be honest I was pissed and disappointed when I heard about the 30fps issue. But now it is no longer a deal breaker for me. However, I am still pretty steamed about the way HTC handle this situation.

Am I keeping my phone? More than likely as I already ported my number. Will I consider another HTC? Only time will tell.
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
That's why i got a new number and gave everyone I know my google voice number. :)
[EVO 4G General] pirokosan:
Can't be hardware because on boot some have reported 60fps
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
One guy reported he saw more than 30fps with the naked eye. As I personally think he knew what he was talking about...it's hardly a proven fact.
[EVO 4G General] pirokosan:
Never mind then :<
[EVO 4G General] redct:
As anybody who's ever started an online petition knows, online petitions do squat.

Go get an iPhone or enjoy your phone and wait for the source to come out. :)
[EVO 4G General] jickey:
I'm in the minority here - I'm with Cent. The issue isn't a big deal to me. I didn't buy it because I heard a similar phone had a particular framerate, I bought it because I researched it to be the best smartphone out there. Is it? Yeah, I think it is. Do I think it's crippled? No. It does everything advertised without any assistance. Do I think there are some QC/QA issues at HTC? Judging by some of the issues, sure. Am I having those issues? No.

Simply put, money talks, bull**** walks. If you don't like it, give it back and get your money back. Don't incessantly whine about it. If you think there's something better out there, then it's your choice as a consumer to go get that. If enough people feel the way you do, then the sharply declining number of users will alert Sprint and HTC that there is a problem.

I work for a major software company - one user leaving doesn't matter. A handful of users don't matter. When the business case shows significant revenue loss, then something will happen to rectify the situation. Oh, and working customer support, I can say that the xda forum is not a representative sample of the user population - people rarely take the time to search for a forum to tell everyone how happy they are.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Yep. I pulled the Incredible kernel source from HTC to see if I could find anything, but obviously could not because the ability is probably not even built in to the kernel. I'll take a look at Toast's pseudo-kernel from the Evo/Inc today but I fear that still won't be enough. We need HTC to release the full source.
[EVO 4G General] Varo210:
They don't??? :eek:

I tend to agree with you on most of your post. I had to have a new phone as soon as I could, I didn't expect heavenly bliss right out gates.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
Except that this is a horrible attitude to have in life. I don't like my relationship with significant other. I'm not going to try to fix it, I'm just going to walk. I don't like my country and its policies, I'm just going to leave. Sure you have that option but when you do have some power to influence the outcome, it is a cop out. It is a cowardly and defeatist way to live.

The people complaining here are trying to improve things in their own way. While in this situation, the one is probably meaningless, the many is not.

I am a strong proponent of feedback be it positive or negative. You don't like the restaurant you ate at? Not ever going back? Did you tell them? Did you express your concerns? If not, how will they ever know and be able to fix it? Some people would just go to the next restaurant and not care. Those are the people who aren't holding up their end of the social contract.
[EVO 4G General] muncheroo:
my observations:

the laggiest scrolling I have observed on my phone is in the app drawer... somehow I feel that is way less than 30 fps, and this is pretty consistent across sense, launcherpro, adw.launcher... maybe it's just way our brains interpret the 4x4 rows of icons or something, but i would be hard pressed to believe it was actually hitting 30fps.

the smoothest scrolling i've seen is in browsing webpages, text, images, combo of both all seem to scroll consistently smooth. I compared this to my iphone 3gs and the iphone is slightly smoother, but the difference wasn't night and day.

so, based on these two observations, i came to 2 possible conclusions:

1. at 30fps, certain things will look smoother than others intrinsically... ie for whatever reason a website at 30fps looks smoother than the app drawer at 30fps

2. the 30fps cap is not responsible for some of the worser lag such as the app drawer and there's something else at fault.

either way, i think it's pretty ridiculous they did this, but personally, i bought the phone for its practical value and this issue doesn't detract from its uses.
[EVO 4G General] mitch27:
It needs to be fixed, they built this phone as a new standard in mobile computing. They should expect stronger, more demanding applications to be released that will only function fluidly at a higher FPS.
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
If that's the case, can I just give them back their HDMI port in exchange for a better performing phone? Dumbest "feature" evah.
[EVO 4G General] RogerPodacter:
Like myself and many others speculated, the hdmi hardware is the problem, and my hunch is that as long as that hardware will exist on the evo (which will be forever obviously), that this cap will always be a problem. Must be a cheap port they used.

I wonder if that's gonna be the final answer we get from HTC on this issue. How many would return or skip the evo if this is the final answer?
[EVO 4G General] kennyc1:
yep... hindsight. :(
[EVO 4G General] jickey:
I love feedback, and I give it when warranted. But I make sure my feedback is pointed, succinct, and pointed at someone who has the capability of fixing my issue. I don't go to everyone in a restaurant and ***** about my food arriving a little cold, I quietly let the waitress (or manager) know about it and let them know they they have the opportunity to fix it - if they don't, then I won't go back. It's as simple as that. I don't go on Zagat's raising hell because my steak was a little too well done, I let the people know who can rectify the situation.

The people here complaining aren't trying to solve anything at all, they're just complaining. Why does anyone reading this care if you return your Evo? If they feel the same way, then they're going to simply return it, not ask if you're going to return yours too. To complement (not compliment) your argument about your significant other, you're not attempting to fix the relationship, you're hanging out at the local bar *****ing to your buddies about why the relationship sucks and talking smack about walking out. Not the best analogy, eh?
[EVO 4G General] shawnee4885:
I'll probably return if that's the final word... then go to the Galaxy when it comes out.

I just hope we can figure out whether it can be fixed or not before July. What if we could disable the HDMI port? I would gladly trade it for 60fps.
[EVO 4G General] npace:
I've been digging through toast's kernel source and have a couple of leads that I want to try but can't get it to boot.

The HDMI issue makes perfect sense to me. From what I can tell, the HDMI stuff is definitely bundled with the graphics drivers. That's not to say that it's definitely a hardware limitation though. One could potentially disable the HDMI stuff in the driver.

The problem is, again, that we don't really have a reliable kernel source.

One thing noone answers me when I ask is -- how did the OC kernel guys manage to make the kernel bootable??

If we have a bootable kernel, we could certainly experiment by changing the driver code and trying different things out!!
[EVO 4G General] Rhys'Droid:
I was just wondering the same thing. I assume that the driver for the HDMI port is in the kernel? Anyone know if it is working (the HDMI port) in Froyo?
[EVO 4G General] netarchy:
Agreed.

One would think it'd be a smart move for HTC to have the hdmi port inactive until something is actually plugged into it. There needs to at least be a toggle to turn it on/off for sure. Why limit the phone over a feature you may not use all the time, if at all? That just doesn't make sense.
[EVO 4G General] nestersan:
It makes sense to HTC however, penny wise and HDMI foolish. I would dig th bloody thing out of the phone with a butter knife if that would remove the cap.
[EVO 4G General] alan7467:
If this is the final answer I'm skipping for sure. Doesn't make any sense for me to use my "upgrade" on a phone that has a choppier UI than my Hero.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
I would return it. Like others, I like to play a few games occasionally, and it's disheartening to see inferior spec'd phones play them much, much smoother.

Like others I would give up the HDMI port to get over 30fps. I'm not sure I'm buying that as an excuse though because there is no reason they couldn't limit the fps after the hdmi port becomes active. I'm also suspicious since HTC also said they did this to preserve battery life. I'm starting to wonder if they don't know the cause and people are coming up with random explanations.
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
It's more like... "our developers are too lazy to implement a solution for the hdmi so to make it easy we just capped everything at 30fps."
[EVO 4G General] hayaticik:
Re: Evo capping all graphics to 30FPS

This is what I sent them :

Hi,

I have been owning iPhone for 2 years.before than I had HTC tilt and t-mobile mda. Both HTC products. 10 days ago I made the switch to HTC again with the Evo 4G and I am so happy. But compare to iPhone scrolling and keyboard isn't as smooth. It doesn't register my clicks and I keep making mistakes. It doesn't recognize some hits. Can you please update your beautiful keyboard. WE DON'T NEED THOSE ARROWS ON THE KEYBOARD. both the portrait and landscape keyboard needs to be fixed. please give us an option about the directional arrows on the keyboard. It's too hard to use it with six arrows on the keyboard. We don't need it on a screen this big. Also please fix the screen frame rate. Thank you. I am glad I am back where I am belong. I love your innovations more than apples.

Thank you

-------------------------------------

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
You can actually install the arrowless HTC keyboard here. I've been using it since day 1 and it's awesome.
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
all this talk of people speculating it really is the hdmi makes me sad.

i feel hopeless now.
[EVO 4G General] gthing:
Go return your Evo and buy an iPhone you ****ing twat.
[EVO 4G General] kennyc1:
wow. thanks for your contribution to this discussion!

A+++ would read again!
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
Evidently trying to have a informative discussion with a misinformed person results in a profane retort. Then again, it is human nature to hate being wrong.
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
what's even worse is that there's a new thread about how using hdmi is causing some people's phones to freeze up.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
Seriously, if its a hardware issue...im going to be extra sad. :(
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Ditto. I really REALLY don't want to get a Galaxy S. I really love the EVO but I may not have a choice if I can't play games smoothly on it. And here I was sticking up for the EVO, showing my coworkers and friends how cool it is, keeping faith that either HTC or the developer community could fix that "choppiness" everyone always mentions when they see it. My spirits will definitely be crushed if that turns out to be the final verdict. There has to be some way to solve this problem right? As others have said, I would gladly disable the HDMI port in exchange for a smoother experience. I haven't even used the hdmi port yet, let alone even bought a cable for it.
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Agreed 100%.
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
LOL seriously. I just dont think the samsung looks good. I acknowledge its friggin fast and a great phone, but the EVO looks so friggin sexy compared to it :( . LOL its gonna be funny when someone asks to see the phone again i have to be like yeah.....it wasnt that great as you thought it was lol. i stuck up for the phone against all my iphone loving friends too. :( sad sad sad
[EVO 4G General] Jus10o:
Has anyone tried toastschf godmode kernel for the Evo that he released? Maybe it will fix the cap.
[EVO 4G General] david_ag:
Thank you!!

But anyway, whomever truly feels their experience is being hampered by this, go ahead and return it. This is a personal decision.

The thing that I hate is that you see people that had no idea this was happening, don't even know to what extent is this limiting (meaning does it affect on a simple task like going through menus or if it's only while playing a hardcore game) start *****ing about it just for the hell of it.... Get the facts, see that it ACTUALLY deterioartes your experience and THEN start *****ing about it and after you ***** about it and get it out of your system, return your phone. Because it helps no one to ***** about it and still keep it. Either it damages your experience with the phone to a point that you can't live with it or you can live fine with it, you can't have it both ways. :D
[EVO 4G General] Grims:
Have you not seen the laggy scroll thread? Lots of peopel noticed the effects and were not happy...it's just now we know what part of the issue is.
[EVO 4G General] Jus10o:
I really doubt the scrolling through menu lag is do to the phone running at 30fps.

There is something hindering the cpu causing it to lag.