yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
FTFY.

10char.
[EVO 4G General] MordyT:
Damn. I hope that it is not true and ends up being like the GPS chip in one of my old WinMo phones which they denied existed... until someone got it working.
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Can't we just find a way to disable the hdmi port and then remove the cap once the source code is released? I mean, after all that's what everyone here was suspecting anyway. Why should it be any different now that HTC finally confirmed it?
[EVO 4G General] MordyT:
If it is a hardware cap, then we are out of luck...
[EVO 4G General] JordanClay2003:
I'm not saying I believe the "managers" but it is consistent with the rest of my findings. Ive tried swapping out the appropriate egl files with the incredibles. I have tried modifying those files as well. Me and npace12 have tried to mess with the framework, and with the kernel. Messed with the click rate. Tried new kernels. Messed with the drivers. Tried to disable vsync. Compared both the EVO and Incredible stock roms and have tried to match to see if we got a difference. Me and npace12, and I'm sure allot of other people have been working on this for day's. And to me it looks like it is a hardware cap. And the data I have, plus what HTC, and Sprint are telling us might be true. Now if you think you know what is going on please feel free to help. I will gladly give you my work and findings to help out the situation but it does not look like anything can be done for now.... Notice how I said for now. We still need to wait for HTC to release the kernel they are holding on to. But please don't tell me that I'm stupid for believing the managers. I have done a **** ton to try to fix this.
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
Honestly, without the source code we can't be sure of anything
[EVO 4G General] deviouskater:
im honestly not sure what im going to do when day 28 hits. Keep or not. After seeing how fast the interface is for the Droid X is, it opened my eyes how fast 1 ghz can really be. I love this phone its almost everything i wanted, (lack multitouch) and the excellent monthly Bill of $68 a month (corporate discount) cant be beat. Verizon i think is going to cost $99.

It makes sense why the evo lags on input, scrolling, and loading "manage apps"

If the hdmi out is always on when the screen is on. its going to take up resources. the devs on these boards are fantastic and think once source comes out they can make a proper coding hopefully remove the cap and enabling a toogle of turning on and off.
[EVO 4G General] engagedtosmile:
I am leaning to returning this device in July if its not fixed or is promised to fixed soon.
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
I'll say it again 99% of the scroll lag can be and is already fixed on both froyo and bugless beast. If you need a camera then do bugless if not do froyo.

sure it won't Lift the cap and games will only run slightly better but the rest of the device that most people use 90% of the time is several magnitudes better. This is a development forum if you can't manage flashing a rom or rooting for a drastically improved experience then I'd suggest phandroid or android central.

If the cap is a big deal and you can't wait for the source code to see if we can fix it then take the device back for the refund. I don't think htc is going to do anything because the phone is sold out despite constant *****ing. What is funny is its only on this forum. The other forums haven't seven nearly the amount of threads and general complaints about this issue.

now I want to see this fixed. It most likely will be fixed but we are going to need the source code unless we get very very lucky. Wait or don't but the decision is yours.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
I have actually decided to keep my phone. In the couple weeks the phone has been released there has already been much progress no only to this issue but many others as well. A big part of my decision is just watching how here on XDA, people dedicate their time to making things that were wrong on the phone, right. If that doesn't speak for itself then i dunno what else does.

P.S. I too, am coming from an iPhone.
[EVO 4G General] scev5:
30 fps is fine with me, thats how games were for most of my life. The touch input lag is my only concern and they seem to be addressing it. And i always knew the screen give was superficial.
[EVO 4G General] engagedtosmile:
If you really want to see how the 30FPS affects performance. Apply the water live wallpaper. Tap on the water a couple of times then slide on to a different page. Look at how the wallpaper slows down and looks horrible. If I am stuck with this phone for 2 years, I don't want this sort of limitation.
[EVO 4G General] leestyle:
Droid X or Samsung Galaxy S are good alternates. The Galaxy S got 55.7FPS in NeoCore.
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
Well, I'm keeping my Evo...I'll wait for the solution. It's still a really sweet phone (though I'm still going to go to Sprint and try and get that $10 extra removed...it don't hurt to ask, right).

But I have a question (and keep in mind I'm not an engineer or anything)...if this is a hardware cap as HTC have told myself and many others, then wouldn't overclocking it raise the FPS limit? Hasn't this been tried with the OC-kernel and the cap remained in place? I think their "position" on it being a hardware cap is nonsense, but nothing will be done until they finally release the source, as have already been mentioned.

That being said, I'm theorizing that this phone was rushed to market and so HTC threw together code that would enable then to ship the phone (which would explain the other flaws as well). That being the case, I don't think the code in the kernel on the phone's now is what HTC will release eventually.
[EVO 4G General] Shadow591:
Works fine on the launcher app I think that is sense

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[EVO 4G General] engagedtosmile:
No it doesn't. I'll take a video and show you what I am talking about.

edit: It prioritizes scrolling over LWP. The 30FPS is very clear when you do this. It doesn't matter what launcher you have. Unless for some reason you don't have the cap at all. :P
[EVO 4G General] vinscuzzy:
I know nothing about development for android, or any other OS for that matter, but is there anyway to run the nexus boot animation in android and compare it to the way it runs before android starts? I thought everyone here was convinced the boot animation runs at 60 fps until android boots. Doesn't that conclude that its a software cap, and not a hardware cap? I would think it would at least prove the screen is capable of 60 fps.
[EVO 4G General] Xyber3364:
You know it is hard to keep up with 2 threads at once, bu the threads need to be merged :-)

According to results found in another thread,

fps2d runns way over 30 if you have the screen off. sooo any coments?

As a programmer i am baffled cause all my opengl apps stopped running when the screen was turned off (or maybe I thought they were)
[EVO 4G General] convexmacrolabs:
That doesn't make sense. "Prioritization" should not be noticeable if you are really being held back by 30 fps cap. On the contrary, if the frame rate looks choppier due to prioritization of certain graphical effects, it would suggest that the frame rate is dropping below the 30 fps cap. In other words, what you are noticing is the frame rate cap not affecting you.

If the frame rate is constantly at the cap, you should see no change in frame rate based on the processor load.
[EVO 4G General] mobilemaniac:
In my testing, if I leave the screen off (either by using the power button or a proximity sensor tool) I get a higher frame rate (around 39fps) but also a larger stdev. Furthermore, the test takes much longer to complete. I see very high frame rates (60-70) and very large standard deviations when I turn the screen on and off using the power button, but not with the proximity sensor.
[EVO 4G General] engagedtosmile:
I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Try it yourself and let me know what you think it is if its not priortization. Scrolling remains smooth, the LWP animations all of a sudden become choppy. Whatever it is, I am 100% sure that is a genuine example of how 30FPS really limits this high end device.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
Can someone post the Sprint boot up animation running at 60FPS, im curious to see what that looks like (if possible)
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Just imagine it running in fast forward.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
Say no more. LOL!
[EVO 4G General] pirokosan:
I feel stupid about how much this made me laugh... :3
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Not necessarily. If the limitation is in the display itself, than there would be absolutely nothing we could do to fix it.
[EVO 4G General] timkdodson:
Please let us know if you make any progress on Sprint removing the charge. I think we have a good case (not that they will listen) based on this hardware cap... this premium fee is BS if our phone isn't really doing what it should be doing.
[EVO 4G General] nestersan:
If FPS2D runs at 50+ with screen off/ or locked, isn't there a way to tell the phone the display is always off ?

Just to see if it will run at full power ?

I'm not a dev, just a dude.. don't stone me too much.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
It's possible I'm sure, but the problem is that a lot will probably break due to the entire system thinking the display is off.
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
i get 50 FPS average ..i dont understand what you guys are saying about 30 fps cap
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
WHAT. Im assuming your screen was off during the test? Would you mind posting an actual video?
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
ahaha ya it was :) sorry i couldnt help myself ..if its any consolation i feel awful and i know im a horrible person :( sorry bud
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Bastard. You sure didn't fool me, though. I've been rickrolled enough times to know better :p
[EVO 4G General] exSD:
BRB crying because of an awful joke.
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
apperently toast has fixed the display issues with his kernel! :D ..im not sure which display issue since theres several but im hoping on the lag and fps lol
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
No, just hardware rev. 0003 screen not displaying correctly.
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
Where's the link to that thread? I'd like to check it out seeing as I have the Rev 0003 version. Thanx
[EVO 4G General] mrono:
I'm not so much mad that it's capped at 30fps, it sucks but there's nothing I can do about it atm. I'm mad they never told anyone. Had they said, it has HDMI out, but we have to cap the display at 30fps to get it, I wouldn't be mad because I would have known about it.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Wow... wow... Vogue raping the Evo. 3 years of "innovation" and it can't match the Vogue. Nice work, HTC.

lol
[EVO 4G General] kennyc1:
Let's not forget we have to pay extra $10 for the privilege of using this phone! I don't know whether I should be angry or laughing.
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
that's PR for you. remember when BP said it was only 5000 barrels leaking a day?
[EVO 4G General] shariteau:
HDMI config programs

I remember seeing hdmi programs in the eng build from the 2nd root method. I reflashed to it, and opened hdmi config I think, and ssdtest. I can't remember for sure but close enough. The hdmi app had buttons for enable and disable though they were greyed. It also said "unplugged". Could this possibly be used to turn off hdmi output altogether? I don't have an hdmi cable to use and see if the options are available, but if anyone does this may be a place to check. Maybe its nothing, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Good luck.
[EVO 4G General] d.cooper:
Screen shots of the HDMI App?
[EVO 4G General] mikephenix:
Sprint response on 30 fps issue

I just wanted to post a reply I received about the 30 fps issue. It looks like there may in fact be a firmware update to fix the issue:

Thank you for contacting Dan@Sprint.com. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to provide feedback

in regards to the frames per second on the HTC EVO. Sprint has reached

out to the manufacturer HTC in regards to this issue. They acknowledge

the problem and are in the process of developing a firmware update that

will address this issue. I sincerely apologize; there is no available

turnaround time for resolve at this time.

*Edit* I'm guessing most people have gotten this response, but I did speak with the representative and it at least sounds genuine, rather than a canned response.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I'm pretty sure the HDMI being at fault may be a dead end road, at least code-wise. We've tested removal of all HDMI init in the board files and although the HDMI port was never being initialized, the fps issue remained.
[EVO 4G General] phrac:
Hey guys, I just tried something. Running the EVOlutionV8 ROM and I went to adb shell and ran:

/system/bin/bootanimation

Now I'm not for sure, but when I run that program it sure looks nice and smooth like it does when its booting up, likes its running more than 30fps. Unfortunately, after I ran that command I had to remove the battery to get it to stop. Does anyone else think that its running at 60fps doing this method?
[EVO 4G General] d.cooper:
Are you able to attach an HDMI cable and see if anything happens with the code all removed and what not?
[EVO 4G General] mdaddy:
Got a new reply from HTC helpdesk:
[EVO 4G General] abiezer:
If this is true, then it's obvious that they recognize that it is a software limitation, they just do not want to fix it themselves.
[EVO 4G General] d.cooper:
Someone should write an app to trick the device to think the screen is off and see how the phone operates if it gets 60fps and the menus are fluid.
[EVO 4G General] txtsd:
how does that work? lol
[EVO 4G General] d.cooper:
Dont know ;] Just trying to maybe jumpstart peoples creativity!
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
I agree with you, but in theory when they are talking about 3rd party solutions they could be referring to hardware. I doubt that's the case, but it's possible.

I think the op of this message should ask HTC what third party options there are to remove this limitation ;-)
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
Those that received this reply, ask them back.. "How was it decided to disable half the graphics power just for the hdmi which is not even being used most of the time?"

Seriously, if I wanted a portable video player (which is what the EVO is now since it can't handle games or graphics intensive applications) I'd just purchase the WD HD Live, or the xtreamer. They are real video players.
[EVO 4G General] XmemphistoX:
All I needed to know to return this device.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
Just put a damn toggle in the system settings to disable HDMI allowing >30fps rendering (if it is in fact and HDMI limitation). Follow it up with a warning that this setting will disable the HDMI out port on the device and may reduce battery life. Done and done. I don't see why these developers that are asked to make performance vs. battery life tradeoffs aren't allowing a software setting to tweak the system how the user wants. Make the defaults whatever you want, just give us the options.
[EVO 4G General] halorin:
If that was really the case, and though they did hammer the word hardware, I don't think they would have said this:

There may be third party options available to remove this limitation; however HTC does not condone the use of, support the use of, or offer technical assistance with regard to these third party solutions.

I think once the source comes out we'll have a better idea.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I don't have a micro HDMI cable, but all reference of HDMI init was completely gone from dmesg after the code removal.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
I agree. What scares me though is that some of the dev's already pulled out the HDMI related code and it still appears to be capped at 30fps.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
Then it's likely being gimped somewhere due to battery concerns. Look at Wireless N, same thing. The technology is there it's just being disabled to improve battery life.
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Pretty awesome video player if you ask me. Nice, portable sized screen, has an app store, plays youtube HQ, browses the internet in 3G and 4G speeds, integrates with all my social networks and google services seamlessly, takes pretty decent pictures and video and it even texts and makes calls!

Seriously, I can see how this could be frustrating to people that wanted to do some intense gaming, but personally, it is in no way a dealbreaker and the device still shines gloriously despite the 30fps cap (which HTC pretty much just admitted was fixable by "3rd parties". so that means once that kernel is released to the community this will probably be fixed along with the rest of the issues that HTC has already stated that they are going to fix themselves).

No device is ever perfect on its first run. It's taken other Android devices much longer to get as much support as the EVO has gotten. The EVO was rooted before it was even released. It's only been out for a couple weeks and HTC's already acknowledged their mistakes and promised a fix (in one way or another). I realize we all paid quite a bit of money for this and it should just work, but that's not how things happen all the time (except with Apple!). We can only do the best we can to fix what we think is broken.
[EVO 4G General] exSD:
I believe the latest response by "Richard" is stating that HDMI output is hardware limited to 30fps. And then they state games and some applications are effected which they can be fixed by 3rd party solutions. They just acknowledged it is in the code.
[EVO 4G General] eagle63:
Boy, I sure wouldn't take that response as any sort of evidence that this is fixable. Especially when they state that it's a hardware issue in the same breath. Bottom line is that at this point anything is possible. Including the possibility that there is no fix.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
Yeah, but technically that's not a hardware issue it was an issue with the driver.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping the 30fps issue is a driver/firmware related issue, but I get nervous when HTC starts saying it's a hardware limitation.
[EVO 4G General] exSD:
Read carefully. They are specifically stating that HDMI output is a hardware limitation only.
[EVO 4G General] nestersan:
"Unique" means CHEAP, it always does when it is a hardware vendor is talking about why the product is worse than the devices it is replacing.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
Could be Firmware that they're referring to witch is considered hardware but can be modified.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Could be, but firmware is not considered hardware. It's just lower level software.
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
Of course to each his/her own, but there are new devices coming out in a few days that have all that you mentioned and not be capped at 30fps. I definitely like the cosmetic looks of the evo, and sprint's plans and coverage in my area, which makes it even more disappointing. There's a few devices coming out this month that will be just as good, and from the looks of it, better fps with hdmi.

If you bought the evo just cause it is a smart phone, then I'm sure you're happy. Some buy it because they wanted the best smart phone, this is not it if it's capped.
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Okay, maybe I jumped the gun a bit. However, even when admitting it was a hardware limitation, their words were that there may be 3rd party options that could -remove- the limitation. That leads me to believe that it IS fixable in some way. Who knows. We should at least stay open to all options until that kernel is released. HTC is never going to flat out say "This is what's causing it and this is how you can edit our code and modify our hardware so that you can fix this problem yourselves! Now leave us alone!!"

Their newest statement at least seems to be giving out a little more than "oh its a hardware limitation and that's it, there's nothing you can do about it."

I bought the EVO because it's the best smartphone for ME. Which is why everyone should be buying any device, not just because some companies that are out to get your cash say it's the best. I bought it because the EVO's pros GREATLY outweigh its cons.

If you want to get a Droid X, Galaxy S or what have you, then more power to you. They look like great devices, but don't think that they won't have their fair share of kinks to work out when they're released too. It's just the way of tech. Even the iPhone's gonna have some issues when it comes out. It's just sad that so many people here have expressed such hate for a device that when you look at the big picture, isn't really all that bad. I wanna see this issue fixed just as much as the next guy. I love smooth devices and I miss that smoothness from my Hero but I'm willing to give it some time. I'm sure a fix will come eventually. If not, then I'm enjoying it nonetheless.

But as you said, to each his own. More power to you.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
Firmware is considered hardware.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
Unique means unoptimized.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
No, the other dude is correct. Firmware is software. However, I still hope you are right and it's something the dev's here can fix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
I know what firmware is. It is considered hardware. I'm a Systems Engineer. Been around a lot of firmware. Electrical Engineers write firmware, programmers don't.
[EVO 4G General] eagle63:
Oh I agree, anything is possible. The only point I wanted to make is that we shouldn't try to "read the tea leaves" with any response we get back from a level 1 customer service rep. As we've already seen with this particular issue, people have been getting different messages from different reps. I wouldn't assume that they meant that 3rd party thing in a "wink wink, nudge nudge" sort of way. Hopefully I'm wrong though!
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
Normally I would let this go, but I think it's important for everyone to understand that firmware is software.

I use to help code firmware on NIC's, so I'm not speaking out my butt ;-)

This is a very good explanation: "However, the term firmware was originally coined in order to contrast to higher level software which could be changed *without replacing a hardware component*, and firmware is typically involved with very basic low-level operations without which a device would be completely non-functional" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware

It's important to recognize the difference because you can have new firmware that changes the functionality or performance of a device without replacing that device. If this issue truly is hardware (which I don't believe (or hope) it is), then it would be almost impossible to fix without swapping out components.
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
You probably should let this go, perhaps you've been out of the loop for awhile or something. Firmware is not software. When you combine firmware and physical devices you have hardware. Back on topic.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
WTF? So are you saying when I drop a .zip file on my SD card to flash a NEW FIRMWARE either on my evo, or say on PSP , I am magically updating the hardware? Firmware is software, period.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
LOL. Ok.

Firmware is software. Firmware without a device is still software. A device without firmware is still hardware (worthless perhaps, but it's still hardware). ;-)

However, I digress. I've posted my sources (and there are more on the wikipedia pages) that specifically define firmware as software. Feel free to post any single source validating your opinion/experience, but I'm moving on ;-)
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
+10

10 chars
[EVO 4G General] RickBaller:
You just have a misconception for what the term hardware means. It includes firmware. Hardware is defined by both the physical devices (what you're thinking the hardware is) and the firmware that controls it. Yes, by definition, if you change the firmware you've changed the hardware.