yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] swatpup102:
:mad::mad::mad:

I don't see why so many are saying HTC won't look into this and fix it. All the major news sources of this problem are saying they are looking into the issue, and the "It's designed for 30fps" b.s. is a standard and canned out response. What do you want them to tell you, "It's supposed to be 60, and will be, but we had to release it with the cap so we could get it out as a stable as possible before the iphone 4 announcements, sorry about that."

Come on, it's a corporate response, they say anything so that it looks like they haven't done anything wrong or messed anything up no matter what the issues may be. The Incredible works fine with the same hardware, why do you think they won't have the EVO working just as well? Remember, you bought this product from the company willingly. You don't HAVE to keep it according to your contract. If it makes you so mad that you initial release EVO isn't perfect and you don't want to wait a little while for a solid and stable fix, return it, please. If you want it to be fixed or changed, tell them. If they don't respond the way you like, you have a choice to get rid of the phone. They have no responsibility to you to make it any different than the day you bought it, so if you didn't test the phone out or read reviews and issues before buying it, it's your own fault.

Personally I kinda like testing out a new device like this, watching it go through updates and fixes, and discovering things with it. This being a developers forum, I would think many here also enjoy tinkering and finding how to make something do the best it can with what is available. Maybe someone could get into the programming of the phone and find out what's going on, making a change.
[EVO 4G General] KyleK29:
Brings back the HTC Tilt days. HTC really needs for one of the cell companies to stand up and slap them. These are not acceptable business practices. If we wanted "better battery life" it should be AN OPTION in settings (set by default?). Much like we could always choose to "use 2G" or "use 3g" networks.
[EVO 4G General] norkoastal:
Great point.. Enable the "boost mode" for gaming and other 3d intensive activities.. A simple warning message with estimated battery life after the change should sufficiently "warn" clients that they will zap the battery. No need to make a crippling "business" decision that will get figured out in a couple weeks by every all of the enthusiasts/press.
[EVO 4G General] halorin:
Do some Google searching on the HTC Tilt and graphics drivers.
[EVO 4G General] investinwaffles:
I second this. This is bull****. My last phone was my TYTN II (ATT tilt) and it suffered from the EXACT SAME ****.

Im really hoping this can be fixed in modded rom (or if HTC would somehow get off their ass and provide some sort of support!)

Gah this makes me furious. Why does the Incredible not suffer from the same problem???
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
Verizon threw a few beans at HTC to gimp the EVO so people would run to the incredible instead. lol
[EVO 4G General] :
What the ****, I just read a giant page on http://www.htcclassaction.org/

That just isn't right... ****, I am not sure if getting service for this phone was a good idea. HTC seems awful, atleast Apple fixes their problems, or will straight out deny fixing something.
[EVO 4G General] luisrcastillo:
I contacted HTC and this is what I received from them:

Hello, Thank you for taking the time to contact HTC America Technical Support via E-Mail with your inquiry about your Sprint EVO 4G by HTC. I understand how important it is for you to have this information about your device. The EVO 4G does have a maximum frames per second (FPS) of 30. This decision was made to enhance the overall performance of the device. At this time, we do not have any information on when or if a software update will be available to change the FPS.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
The Droid X is rocking a 4.4 inch display. I have no doubt in my mind that Motorola will refrain from doing something so sneaky and underhanded as placing an fps cap on their device as well in order to preserve battery life, especially since THAT phone is designed for gaming with its dedicated GPU.

The 45nm processor might help save battery life on the Droid, but I don't see why HTC couldn't find a similar way to conserve battery life like Motorola did without resorting to this crap.
[EVO 4G General] VT Tony:
With all of these canned replies, it sounds like they are misunderstanding our frustration and looking only at video encoding at 30fps instead of the overall operating system graphics performance. I only mention that because video recorders will cap out at 30fps, which is a common practice (as mentioned many times in this thread). It almost sounds like that is what these reps are addressing instead of our actual issue.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Ok guys, I found a video that clearly outlines the touch sensor lag and/or the 30fps cap on the Evo:

[YOUTUBE]WenAs_8IZXM[/YOUTUBE]

Only the first minute and a half are related to this issue, but you can clearly see that the Evo falls far behind the iPhone 3GS in terms of finger tracking and smoothness, and we haven't even seen the iPhone 4 in action. This has got to be one video HTC doesn't want people to see.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Well, this kid is a total Apple fanboy. The evo is definitely not the right phone for him, probably wouldnt even fit in his emo jeans. But I gotta say what he said in the first minute and a half was spot on. We should trim it and send it to HTC.
[EVO 4G General] muncheroo:
wow wow wow wow i had to stop watching that video cause i was about to stab my computer screen
[EVO 4G General] l33tlinuxh4x0r:
Like mentioned before that guy is an apple fanboy. (god I hate stupid fanboys/girls of anything) Anyway just fyi the only "issue" that I have with my evo is the 30fps but in reality i can't even tell 95% of the time.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Yeah, I waarned you guys :P.Regardless, his being a fanboy doesn't dilute the fact that the lag is there. Just try loading the Multitouch visualizer application on your Evo and try moving one or both of your fingers really quickly like I did in this test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7cYb7EtUM
[EVO 4G General] KERKEDAGAIN:
to be fair, all those are valid "issues" to an Apple user. Much like a Mercedes owner, most have no real intention on getting under the hood and gettin' things cranked up. Alls they want is a vehicle (device, by comparison) that will run smoothly w/o hiccups until the next model comes out.

We Android (n ex-winMO users) are used to gettin' our hands dirty and tweaking the MESS outta our device and if somethin's wrong..WE'LL fix it, no need to run back to mom, cry, and have her buy us a new one. That said, I have no doubt that these things WILL be ironed out by our devs. I do agree that those things might be taken into consideration by Google, cuz when we root n apply a custom ROM, most of those things (i.e. more agressive internal memory, n adblock) are addressed.

(*disclaimer: no mal-intent meant for Mercedes owners. Crass analogy, I know, but it's how I see it) :D
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
lmao.

i sent a rant reply 3 hours ago to the "the phone was designed to run at 30fps" message saying how i'm dissapointed that the competing phones in the market dont have this issue and how i'm just going to have to return the phone.

i was really surprised by the reply...

"Thank you for your response. I apologize that you feel this way, however, this is HTC's stance on the issue."

To me, this shows HTC could care less about our demands. Theyre basically saying they don't care if i return the phone. And it gives me a hint that they arent going to budge on the issue anytime soon. I say a software update releasing anytime soon is out of the question if this is their "stance on the issue". They didn't even mention the possibility to me even though i consistently mentioned i'm returning the phone dissapointed and that other competing company smartphones don't have this issue.

its a done deal. im returning the evo for sure.
[EVO 4G General] timgt:
I'm not gonna lie, I think this guy was pretty much spot on the entire first half of the video.

The 2nd half he just seemed to babble on and run out of things to say, but the first half was legit.
[EVO 4G General] Landmine:
Haha, no. Just no.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
Is this an exact quote? I ask because it isn't even good english and isn't something I would expect to see from a PR department.

As for the video a few posts back, I thought it was actually very good and made some interesting points. And this is coming from someone who has a strong dislike for Apple. There are absolutely some things that Apple does very well. If I could get an iPhone 4 with native android, it would be difficult to turn down. At the moment though, I see enough positives from HTC and Android to keep from switching to the iPhone.

To play devil's advocate, I will disagree with the whole lag issue as even being "lag". Obviously, we want our phones to be responsive to our inputs. But can it be too responsive? If the capacitive sensor was good enough and the processor fast enough, when you put your finger on the screen, it would probably always jitter because you're not holding your finger perfectly steady. When you drive a sports car and then drive an appliance car, one of the most striking differences is in how responsive the car is. I'm not suggesting that the Evo is an appliance and the iPhone a sports car. What I am saying is that maybe HTC has put more damping into the motions of its UI than that of the iPhone similar to the way that Toyota will deaden the feel of its steering intentionally because many people desire it to be so. Whether or not that damping is desired in our situation should be the question.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
He's entitled to his opinion. Unfortunately that's what 90% of this Youtube video is. I give him props for the touch lag issue (and perhaps even the 30fps issue) + the camera lens being exposed when you set it down...because he actually shows/demonstrates the issue, but the rest of this video is just his opinion ... including why he feels the Apple OS is superior. I could easily create a video of all the ways Apple's OS closed architecture sucks.

Although I don't think any device or OS will be perfect, I think HTC did miss the boat here. This device had the potential to be a homerun, and for me it's a double or triple. The only thing that disappoints me is that HTC seems so close to putting out a complete device, but then pulls the rug out from under me.

Having said that, I'm still planning on sticking with Android and I'll probably keep the EVO if we can get a few of these issues resolved.
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
What in the world are you talking about? The iPhone has near-instant touch response regardless of generation and there is no jittery feeling, it's accurate, quick, and runs butter smooth. Android is crippled by manufacturers such as HTC who are too cheap to pay Qualcomm for appropriate drivers for their devices. All you former WinMo HTC device owners will know exactly what I'm talking about.
[EVO 4G General] Pops_G:
The iPhone runs at 480 by 320 resolution.

EVO: 384000 pixels

iPhone: 153600 pixels

The EVO has 2.5x the pixels/processing to do. So its logical that the EVO screen might not be as buttery smooth, even with a faster processor.

The touch input lag is a separate issue and does need to be address.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Not true. Just because it has 2.5x more pixels doesnt mean the evo has to work 2.5 times harder.
[EVO 4G General] Pops_G:
For that one specific task of graphics rendering. Yes it does.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Sorry, but you really have no idea what you're talking about. At all.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
Then prove it. I'm not siding with either one of you, I'm just saying that the response you gave was completely useless.
[EVO 4G General] ortizdupri:
http://www.examiner.com/x-8134-SF-G...touchscreen-accuracy-test-Motorola-Droid-last

yes, the iPhone does have the best touch response.

However, two HTC devices come the closest...
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
yeah its an exact quote, i just copied it from my email, i dont know how to demonstrate to you guys its real without giving you my email pw lmfao maybe i can take a pic of it and upload it and link you guys if you wanna see.

the response PISSED me off, i'm gonna return the evo before my 30 day period unless theres any fixes. im pretty sure source isnt gonna be realeased by then, knowing these cheapasses at HTC.. ugh i dont even know what to think. samsung galaxy s, next stop? iphone 4 inevitably? ahh...

also, the lag issue? I know its an issue, and I do want it fixed, but im not gonna lie...sometimes the lag benefits me. for instance draawing on the evo is so much easier than drawing on the ipod touch or iphone. the precision of the iphone is really dead on accurate, and should be that way, but i always find it hard to write something, using freehand, like drawing my name in script. maybe there are some beneficiary applications to the lag? like seeing and knowing where your stroke is going? i dont know how to feel about it. I like drawing on the evo, but when i play air hockey, it just PISSES me off.
[EVO 4G General] Pops_G:
A simple google search should be enough to educate you. Here is what I got in about 15 seconds. I am sure there will be tons of sources that repeat this information.

"The disadvantage of higher resolutions, is they take more memory and disk space to store, and more computer processing power to display."

http://www.graphicsacademy.com/what_resolution.php
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
You are both right, and the quote is correct. However, there is not a 1:1 correlation between resolution and cpu, memory, or disk space needed. It's an incremental increase and there are a lot of factors.

I think the key here is to look at other devices with similar hardware and look at the fps they achieve. There is no reason the EVO can't hit over 30fps from a hardware perspective (even with it's larger display)....and even if that was the case (which it's not) then HTC wouldn't have admitted to put a cap on it to enhance battery life ;-)

I vote for moving on. :-)
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Okay this is starting to get ridiculous. I know exactly how high resolutions affect processing, however:

You stated that the iPhone has 2.5x less pixels than the EVO.

First of all, there is a difference between Pixel Density and Resolution.

Take this practical example:

- A Nexus One has the same Resolution as the EVO. However, even though the EVO has a bigger screen, the nexus one has more pixels than the EVO because there are more pixels crammed in every inch of the screen.

Even though the The nexus one has MORE pixels than the EVO, it still manages to outperform it even though it has the same internal components as the EVO. If the EVO had the proper drivers and was not capped at 30fps, they would be neck and neck, even though the Nexus One STILL has more pixels than the evo. Update: [CLARIFICATION: More pixels as far AS DPI goes., they have in fact the same resolution: 800x480 pixels]

Second, you cannot simply imply the iPhone is supposed to be faster just because it has less pixels to process. This is an utterly ridiculous claim. What if the iPhone didn't have a GPU at all? GPUs matter. A lot. The EVO could eat the iPhone alive even if it had 40 times more pixels than the iPhone, and had a better GPU, therefore, your claim is invalid, as both phones have different GPUs.

It's funny how I had to spend four years in school and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on education to get a guy who knows nothing about this sort of stuff to just spend 15 seconds......on google and tell me to get educated. Unreal.
[EVO 4G General] engagedtosmile:
Is this cap still on the Froyo ROM?
[EVO 4G General] RogerPodacter:
My understanding is that the nexus and evo both have the same number of pixels (ignoring the nexus one-shot pentile layout for a second). Both these screens need the same processing power.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
They do not have the same amount of Pixels as far as DPI goes.

They have the same Resolution. Not number of actual pixels.
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
sorry to burst your bubble..but the nexus one and evo have the same number of pixels. the nexus one DOES NOT have more pixels than the evo. PIXEL DENSITY is only related to screen size, since the nexus one is 3.7 inches, it has MORE PIXELS PER INCH. the evo is a bigger display , 4.3 inches, with the same 800x480 resolution. it has LESS PIXELS PER INCH... so the snapdragon should be able to run 60fps on the evo if it can on the nexus one. both devices are pushing the same amount of pixels, with the same gpu. one is capped, the other is not.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
wtf and isnt that EXACTLY what I said? lmao. Okay, I'm really not looking to get a bigger e-penis, so I will not be answering any more of these, let's move on.
[EVO 4G General] ViViDboarder:
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about Pixel Density and Display Resolution...

Display Resolution is Pixels x Pixels. So if they have the same Display Resolution they have the same pixel count.

Pixel DENSITY is Pixels per area. So since the N1 has a smaller screen it has a higher pixel density than the EVO. Pixel density has nothing to do with CPU cycles. Pixels that the CPU must calculate and fill does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
Do you understand what DPI means? It is Dots Per Inch. The Nexus One has a higher DPI because it fits the SAME number of pixels in a smaller space. Keep the top number the same and lower the bottom number = larger number.
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
LOL, seriously. I think we alll corrected him in the same way. Lets move on. Even he's ready to move on LOL.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
That is exactly what I said.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
"The nexus one has MORE pixels than the EVO"

You have serious reading comprehension problem if you think MORE is the same word as SAME.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
Except that he hasn't realized yet that he's wrong (seems to be a trend on this forum). :p
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
We are arguing over semantics. The Nexus One has more pixels than the evo as far as DPI goes, just like I said a couple of posts later. They have the same resolution: 800x480. The guy who started this whole debacle was comparing actual number of pixels, as in pixel density, he was not saying the iPhone had a 480x320 vs 800x480.

Moving on...
[EVO 4G General] RogerPodacter:
But pixels per inch means nothing with respect to processing power for the screen. If you physically count all the pixels on each screen, they will both have identical number of pixels. That's a fact.

The larger screen of the evo does not need any extra processing power over the nexus one. The evo just displays the same info on a larger screen.
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
This is the reply I got from the htc product support manager:

Dear Mr. Thornton,

*

We are investigating your issue with frame rate on the EVO. Can you provide us with a list of games that you feel are impacted by our 30 FPS limitation. We would like to better understand the impact. We will use your list of games to test against others.

*

Thank you for your email and assistance.

*

Sincerely,

*

James Black

Product Support Manager - North America
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
It's not semantics at all. You have a critical misunderstanding of the concept. Think of a pixel as a tiny little controllable source of light and color. Both the Nexus One and Evo have the exact same number of them and in the exact same pattern. It just so happens that the Evo has BIGGER ones. That has no effect on turning them on and off with regards to CPU/Graphics (though it does when it comes to power but that is beyond this discussion). Bigger pixels means small DPI or PPI.

When you say something like this:

"more pixels than the evo as far as DPI goes"

That indicates that you don't actually understand what the term means. The Nexus One has a higher DPI/PPI. The unit for PPI is not pixels. It is a unitless number because the units are in the term.

The Nexus One does not have more pixels. Period.
[EVO 4G General] chim4ira312:
Seriously? you got that response? they wanna do SOMETHING? LOL. Send them a list of apps, and if you need some just ask here. I don't get what's up with HTC and the different responses theyre sending out. They basically told me go return your phone, we're not gonna change the cap. So pissed off by what they said
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Finally, a response that is not canned. Tell him it's all games. One example: Doodle jump. Ask him to put any games side by side with a nexus one or incredible. Maybe we should upload some videos on youtube.
[EVO 4G General] Xenithflare:
I'm only quoting this so I can save that picture when I get home from work XD Best five minutes I've ever spent on XDA, reading this thread XD
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
Send me all the games that u can. Seriously. I sent an email stating that this issue is a known issue and reported by xda and engadget. And I will ask him if it's okay if other users send him issue as well.
[EVO 4G General] Mecha2142:
Neocore

FPS2D

These sources prove it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKJhpioh51k

Doodle Jump
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Asphalt 5 lite sucks, too, and they can download for free to test it

Also, this video shows how the touch input lag impacts gameplay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7cYb7EtUM
[EVO 4G General] themyst:
Problem is the videos on youtube won't reflect the true nature of the issue as youtube videos themselves are 30fps.

Doodle jump, homerun battle 3d, and as the Android Market grows, this issue will become more and more noticeable.
[EVO 4G General] techs1200:
show them this video, which has FPS displayed as results. Have them focus on the 2D program shown, where the nexus one gets 60fps and the EVO gets 30fps.

[youtube]rKJhpioh51k[/youtube]
[EVO 4G General] Pops_G:
Simply amazing. You seriously graduated from college? Please read this SLOWLY so you understand.

Everything I said there is true.

Here is seems like you get the first part about the EVO having more pixels. On the second part you are wrong. Each pixel takes the same amount of processing power to render/display. Sure it isn't the only processing done in a UI, but it is one part of it.

No I didnt say the iPhone has 2.5x less pixels, I said the EVO has 2.5x more pixels. This is a basic concept most people can understand. If you want to switch it around like you did, you would say "The iPhone has 4/10 the pixels, or 40% of the pixels." 2.5x less pixels would put the iPhone into the negatives.

You started off good. You are right, they have different DPI. Then you totally blew it again and were wrong. You even contradicted yourself. Resolution and total pixels is the same thing. Imagine you had legos, and you put them in a 2x2 grid, thats 4 legos total. Now do the same things with houses, a 2x2 grid, or 4 houses total. See how they have the same units(pixels) even though their DPI is different?

Everything you say I said, I did not say. I like how you did that. I should try that strategy in arguments. Its working great for you.
[EVO 4G General] ajthornton52:
Keep em coming. Want as much data/info I can give him. And keep hitting HTC up. I also went to sprint and a tier2 tech is making moves in calling his contacts at HTC. This is a reflection on sprint since it's their flagship.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
True. All of us who got the canned response from HTC need to reply and tell them why that is still not acceptable. And then send another email. Lather, rinse and repeat.