yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Okay, so, dev-oriented people that can compile a kernel (and people that are better at reading kernel source than me):

Download Toast's makeshift kernel and look in /drivers/video/msm/. From what I can discern, these are the mddi drivers and code for the kernel, so if we're going to make progress disabling/changing/rerouting, it's probably going to start here. I notice if you look at the mddi_client_*.c files (which I assume are drivers for different display types), there's all sorts of stuff about caps, refresh rates, and things like that. Plus, msm_fb.c has some mentions of "FPS", but I have no idea if that relates to frames per second or not. As you can tell, I am not competent enough to know if it applies to our problem. What would be really interesting would be to see all of this code from the EVO. GRR.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can explain this to me. :)

EDIT: msm_fb.c seems to have a debug option for printing FPS. Hmm.

EDIT 2: Okay, I'm just going to start speculating out loud here.

/arch/arm/mach-msm/include/mach/msm_fb.h - Has stuff about MDDI, number of graphics interfaces, clock rate.

/arch/arm/mach-msm/devices.c - Seems to set "mddi_clk" to something if the build is for the supersonic, else it sets it to something else. Line 1061.

/arch/arm/mach-msm/board-supersonic-panel.c - Might be a good place to poke around some more?

^^ keep in mind that I really have no idea what I'm talking about
[EVO 4G General] gman8966:
I said basically the exact thing to them and they responded with this...

Thank you for your reply. Your feedback, is appreciated. If you do not need any additional assistance, you do not have to reply, and the ticket will close after a period of time. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and please, let us know if we can be of further assistance. I want to apologize for any inconveniences you may have experienced.

Apparently logic is feedback to them.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Also, it seems that while we now know it's the MDDI that's causing the problem, I actually think the boot animation never ran at 60fps. It seems extremely smooth, but I think I just confirmed now that it's only tricking the mind. Here's some proof:

Look at this gif:

Doesn't that look smooth? In fact, it looks JUST as smooth as the boot up animation on the actual phone. well, that gif has only 95 frames, and it lasts only 3.8 seconds. All the frames run equally, so if you do the math it equals to exactly 25 frames per second. Not even close to 60fps.

I also tried loading this same gif by itself in the browser and got the same result. Looks smooth as silk, but now we know, it's just a mind trick. :(
[EVO 4G General] redct:
If you look at the boot animation frame by frame in Preview or something, notice the subtle motion blur. That'll lead you to believe it's faster than it is :rolleyes:

Also, fun with /dev - I managed to crash my phone by running fps2D and redirecting fb0 to fb1 (I have no idea what I was trying to accomplish there...)
[EVO 4G General] phrac:
Yep, if you open the bootanimation.zip and look at the desc.txt file, you will see

512 256 [B]30[/B]
p 1 0 part0
p 0 0 part1

that bold 30 there is the fps.
[EVO 4G General] kennyc1:
Check please!

Hardware cap or not I am done for now. I will be canceling my account before 7/4. I will try to make sure the door won't hit my ass on my way out. :)

Just ordered Simple Mobile prepaid kit on eBay and will go back to my unlocked iphone for now. They are offering $60 unlimited everything plan (talk/text/web)

Android is an amazing OS with an awesome community behind it. I am sure I will be back later. But having an uber phone with a gimped display is one thing. That extra 10 a month make it feels like a slap on my face.

I will let Sprint know exactly the reason of me leaving. Hopefully enough people like me will persuade them to put some pressure on HTC.

One can only hope :(
[EVO 4G General] redct:
Get a Nexus One!
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
Droid X press release on Wednesday. They'll have my full attention while HTC dillydallys.
[EVO 4G General] redct:
If you edit the boot animation's desc.txt, anything higher than 30 makes the screen blank on boot. Baaaaaah.
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Glad we finally have confirmation of what's going on. Now we can actually figure out how to fix it without speculating over what we're trying to fix.

Either way, I'm keeping my EVO. Not really a gamer but if a fix is found I'd flash it in a heartbeat
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
Yes, and you guys also realize that the image isn't even full 800 480. When I put an image at 800x480, it was slow as molasses. The sprint bootimage is at 800x480 and is smooth, but because it's running at 30fps.

...And I also don't think there is a way to fix it software wise, because I would imagine it's hardware like... they put our nvidia geforce 280 gtx in the pci slot, and put our tv card in the PCI express slot. That's what I think is happening.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
So.....are we all SOL?
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Too bad.. I really wanted to love this phone. I will also be returning to my iPhone and AT&T. I will come back when/if this is ever fixed. HTC does not deserve a dime from my hard earned money.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
As much as I hate to say it, because I love the Evo and have been a Sprint and HTC customer for a while, I'm thinking about switching. The Droid X is looking quite nice right now.
[EVO 4G General] AssassinsLament:
Yeah, I wanted to love it also. I'm so torn because this is the only issue, but it's such a big issue. I left Windows Mobile for this, because I wanted to get into developing games/applications for android... I can't even do that right because of this issue.

I'm going to wait a few days before I decide to keep it or not, because Verizon and Motorola are going to announce a few new phones on Wednesday the 23rd this week. The Droid X looks mighty good right now, but we'll know more by Wednesday.

This is my backup plan to the EVO:

The cheapest Verizon plan that has the 5 Favorite Unlimited numbers we can call, about $60 I think. And since I have a google voice number, I'll just get the 5gb (unlimited) data, and not get a texting plan. Then just call unlimited using the google voice as one of the 5 favorites, and get free texting through google voice's application through data. It will probably be around $90 a month, but that's ok... I won't feel cheated.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Exactly my position on this. I was a WM dev before and was looking forward to writing apps for Android, especially since they'd look so good on the Evo. The FPS issue doesn't make me as angry as the touch input lag does, but it's still an issue. The touch input lag makes me ****ing furious.
[EVO 4G General] nestersan:
Only thing saving Sprint is the fact that the Unlimited mobile to mobile is good, cause my women are all out of state on different networks. So 450 Mins gets used in 2 days.

I think Verizon 450 is unlimited only to Verizon Customers

Played a 3d football game on EVO for about 10 mins, stuttering and all, the metal kickstand is almost too hot to touch.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
What about the faster fps when the display is off? Perhaps I'm just up too late, but doesn't that give us some options?
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Maybe, but we don't know. Stupid ass HTC won't release the source that they're legally supposed to.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
Yeah I don't get that at all since that may be the only way some of us end up keeping this device. Hopefully HTC comes through soon.

Don't get me wrong. I understand xda customers are still the minority of overall Evo sales, but it's also a lot of bad publicity on Engadget, etc. that does start to filter down to more of your average customer base. Frankly, HTC really doesn't need anymore bad press.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Definitely. And it's not just Engadget. If you search Google for "evo 30fps" you'll see hundreds of results. It's crazy.

Sent from my Evo
[EVO 4G General] KyleK29:
This is just a guess, but isn't it possible that when the screen is "off" it's automatically rerouting to the 60FPS HDMI port? Life if you're watching a movie, the screen may sleep.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
Perhaps but I thought the hdmi port was limited to 30fps, which is the cause of our issue. If we didn't have hdmi....

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[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Yeah. For me, and i'm sure for a LOT of people, the clock is officially ticking. If there is no fix this week, a lot of people will be returning their phones, myself included.
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
man i hope radio shack lets me return it..i dropped mine and there is a ding in the corner

that samsung galaxy s pro looks nice..4 inch super amoled 1ghz processer(faster than snapdragon), and increeeddibley responsive
[EVO 4G General] Jykinturah:
I don't know if all Samsung phone are like this, but my friend had a Samsung Moment and rooting it was a headache.
[EVO 4G General] SPL15:
What a SHOCK! HTC cramming features into a phone to look better on paper at a cost of real world functionality...

30FPS is the old standard for analog TV broadcasting in the US. 60 Frames per second refresh rate, 30 fields per second. So they took this logic & said, "oh we only need 30 FPS period to make video smooth, just like analog TV." Well CRT's have a fairly long time before they fully change the picture so this worked back then. but an LCD is much quicker than CRT & quick motion such as games need a higher frame rate to appear smooth. You guys know this, HTC thought they could cheap out & no one would notice... Again, poor engineering on HTC's part (Seams to be the norm).

Now they say it is HARDWARE based limitation... Well partially true I think. The GPU in the phone operates on instructions, there is no hardware cap that would limit the Frame Rate to EXACTLY 30 FPS, it would have to be done software side as a GPU is really just an extremely fancy & fast Multiprocessing DSP. & a DSP is really just an extremely fancy & fast multiprocessing Microcontroller. I think the HARDWARE limitation is that HTC through their own stress testing found out that the GPU will get excessively hot & could be damaged in fairly common situations OR the heat was high enough that it would not pass certain testing standards that would be needed to be sold. SO in typical chinese manufacuring fashion, they lie outright & say something that somewhat covers their rears & unbinds them from coming up with a fix. I'm sure they had lots of bean counters & market analysts crunching numbers & find that the time & money to fix the problem outweighs the minimal impact on sales this problem will cause. I absolutely HATE dealing with Chinese Manufacturers. You can show them the science, math & independant testing from different labs proving without a doubt they are lying & they will STILL blatantly lie to your face & act all aloof as to what went wrong.

I don't game on my evo, but I've noticed the video lagginess & I'm really tempted on returning it just on the principal of not supporting another Chinese crap factory.
[EVO 4G General] PikkonX:
The reason why graphics performance sucks right now

I really hope a solution for this is possible directly from HTC or once the source drops. I won't have my Evo until next week (if I can actually find one in a store), but this news is pretty disappointing. One of the main things I was looking forward to with my first 2nd gen Android device was playable emulators and games that otherwise lag pretty badly on the Hero. If my Hero wasn't already pretty much sold, I'd probably consider holding off for the Galaxy. Hopefully this issue will either be resolved within my 30 day window or we're given some solid Galaxy release date info.

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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App with my Hero that does more than 30fps.
[EVO 4G General] starplaya93:
Instead of asking WHY HTC places the fps cap, we should start emailing them threats to sue, it they don't release the kernel...Just a suggestion...I mean, if you start getting hundreds, even thousands of emails from people threatening to sue, surely it may have some impact on those lying cockroaches over at HTC...Well they actually may not be lying...chances are, their just dumb sheep.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
I don't think there are any restocking fees, at least for new customers.
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
dont worry about emulators dude..they run perfectly smooth for me
[EVO 4G General] xxruxx:
Evo capping all graphics to 30FPS:The reason why graphics performance sucks right now

That's only if you set the frame skip to 1, using no frame skip results in terribly slow gameplay (half the normal speed of 60FPS). I have at times seen the FPS cap choke and the game ran normally for a split second. In fact, rotating the orientation of the screen will cause this choke up as well.

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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
[EVO 4G General] bobdude5:
well gameboid is automatically set to max 2 frameksips and its runs buttery smooth
[EVO 4G General] PikkonX:
capping all graphics to 30FPS:The reason why graphics performance sucks right now

That's good news. Thanks for the info.

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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
[EVO 4G General] AdamLJ:
Punch Out lagged pretty bad for me on Nesoid.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
I think these actually may be some legitimate leads. I'm looking into this now.

Does anyone know what LCD panel the Evo has?
[EVO 4G General] spiicytuna:
Taken from here:

002's have a novatec panel.

003's have an epson panel.

("home" menu > settings > about phone > hardware information)
[EVO 4G General] jblazea50:
received a phone call from someone from Sprint Corporate (Brandon Donnell); he didn't know much about the issues and said like HTC is working on updates and such; however, i explained to him what HTC said about the 30fps and he's going to call me back by the end of the day (gave me his direct number) after doing some research on this matter
[EVO 4G General] rushless:
I agree with your capping logic, but people have tried other roms on the EVO and the cap still is there. Seems more at a bios level and can not be changed at a higher level. I think this and the weak wifi reception are both on purpose. They hardware capped the GPU and and reduced the mW of the wifi radio to offset the larger LCD and 4G power consumption. HD2 does not have these problems, but does not have 4G.
[EVO 4G General] MadHatter01:
So if MDDI 1.1 is stuck a 30 fps and movies run at 24fps why the HECK do you put the LCD on the MDDI 1.1. The RGB should be to the lcd and the MDDI 1.1 to the HDMI. Is it a Firmware/driver switch to move them around?
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
does this mean that the onboard gpu isn't even used?
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
This is what HTC sent me in response to my request for the kernel to be released:

Thank you for your reply. I apologize that you have received conflicting answers. I am not sure why that is the case, however; I can assure you that you have received the correct response from my initial reply. I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities. We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review. When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
I just got off the phone with AT&T. I can cancel with Sprint, not pay a dime, and AT&T will restore my account exactly like it was before with no Early termination fee and still eligible for an upgrade to iPhone 4. HTC really dropped the ball on this one. It happened with the tilt, now it's happening again. I will never be an early adopter for any HTC product ever again.
[EVO 4G General] madsquabbles:
whether i keep it or take it back it will be my last htc device.
[EVO 4G General] Landmine:
Exactly the same for me too. HTC = Hello Total Crap
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
I can understand your frustration. I've felt this way about almost every HTC device I've owned (include the Mogul and Hero). It's not that I hate the device it's just a love-hate relationship. Obviously every phone has it's issues, but HTC seems to put out some of the most technologically advanced device, but they always seem to make a crucial mistake or have *more* QA issues that other manufacturers don't have that keeps it from being the game-breaker it could be.

One of the standard practices now with Android phones (not to mention most technology) is to start benchmarking them. It's really just unacceptable to put out a new device with advanced hardware where the benchmarks don't slaughter their old devices (especially considering the Hero is very similiar to the now ancient G1 from a hardware perspective).

I'm still hoping this might be something the dev's can fix. If the 30fps and the touch lag can be solved this would pretty much be the device I originally thought I purchased, and I would love to keep it.

If Apple was more open and offered true multitasking support (and was on a different network) I would probably consider them. However, I do believe that Android has the potential to be the platform of the future (especially with Gingerbread). I guess time will tell. Regardless I wish you luck whichever direction you choose.
[EVO 4G General] Vandam500:
While it is frustrating, if you do switch over to the iPhone you will find many more problems then this specific one. I was a previous iPhone user (2 years) and while everything is polished and whatnot, it is extremely limited to what it can do in comparison to an Android device. Even though this cap sucks, it's not that huge of a deal breaker in my eyes where you would switch to an inferior platform.

HTC has responded to many people saying that they will release a update that will fix this. The Evo hasn't even been out for 1 month yet. Software updates will arrive and will make an already amazing device even better.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
I agree with you completely from the Iphone perspective, and I'm under the impression a software fix will be coming for the touchscreen grounding issue and the touch lag, but it doesn't look like there will be an update for the 30fps issue.

Here's the latest response from HTC regarding 30fps: "...I can assure you that this is not something that can be changed with software updates or hotfixes. I can see how that may not be the resolution you are looking for, but I do not have any other resolution at this time."

/sigh
[EVO 4G General] sfox8:
Agreed. If all you want in a phone is apps and a gaming device, then the iPhone could be a great choice, but don't expect to have the freedom that you do with Android. Even when jailbreaking.

The iPhone's problems tend to be more low-key but if you're hoping you won't have any problems, you're in for disappointment. A lot of people have returned them because of cracked screens, broken power buttons, broken home buttons (three of my friends have experienced the cracked screen, one out of those three had a broken power button). You're not going to get a perfect experience no matter where you go or what phone you buy. But as I say to everyone else, more power to you if you really want to go that route.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
The thing is, when you buy an iPhone, you know what you are getting. You know the issues and the limitations. None of us knew (before it was discovered by owners) that this phone had this limitation. Has anyone been able to find where the cap is supposedly documented by HTC as they claimed? I'm not looking to get something that wasn't advertised, like trying to enable 802.11n when we knew it was only advertised as 802.11g. I would just like to get the phone that I thought I was getting when I originally purchased it.
[EVO 4G General] swaze:
I swear people are acting like this issue is not gonna get fixed ever. Sheeeeeeesh. Its the same that happened with the HERO source. It was a big to do and eventually it was rectified and everyone was happy. If all it takes is something like this to make you take the phone back, you shouldn't have had it in the first place. C YA!!!
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
Well the fact that HTC is saying this is a hardware issue that can't be fixed is kind of a downer... I guess time will tell whether or not that statement is accurate though.
[EVO 4G General] Minjin:
When did I ever say I was returning the phone? I was making a comment about how the issues of the iPhone and this phone are different.

Think before responding.
[EVO 4G General] acrh2:
I can't believe that someone could call himself a man, and given a choice would go for a 3.5" screen, when he could get a 4.3".
[EVO 4G General] jblazea50:
some people want to return the phone instead of waiting to see if it can be fixed is the RIGHT move; from some of the HTC responses, it seems like it may be a hardware limitation and may not be fixed; also, remember that the people that wants to return the phone cannot wait forever on HTC since there's a 30 day trial for the Sprint service; if you wait more than 30 days, you'll be stuck with Sprint or pay the ETF; so i don't blame anyone for trying to get rid of this phone due to the limitation

i've contacted Sprint corporate about canceling my services due to the limitation and one of the guys called me and said they didn't realize the phone had the 30fps cap and thought it can go up to 60fps; he also said HTC is trying to fix the issue (didn't know if it can be fixed or any timetable)
[EVO 4G General] halorin:
Funniest comment I've seen on here in a long time.
[EVO 4G General] swaze:
My bad, quoted the wrong one. The guy a few posts ahead of you said that.
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
+1

Helps counteract some of the snarky comments I see on occasion. Kudos to you!
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Dude, no one is saying this won't be fixed. I have faith in XDA and I just know if anyone can fix this, it's XDA, NOT HTC. Having said that, the reason why I will be returning my phone was described spot-on here:
[EVO 4G General] asrebel:
I think you reasoning is completely valid. 30fps matters to me too, and when HTC starts saying it's a hardware limitation...I have to consider returning mine as well.

Obviously I (like yourself) am hoping they are wrong and this is actually a software problem...but I totally understand if you can't wait...Keeping any device beyond 30 days is not only a commitment to the device, but a long term financial commitment to the carrier as well.

Here's hoping we all hear some great news before our 30 days are up!
[EVO 4G General] bob13bob:
start a petition website. fastest way to get change is with wallet.. will switch to iphone if don't fix cap.
[EVO 4G General] Cicatrize:
Petition won't do ****. Switching to iPhone would probably not be as nice as switching to Droid X.
[EVO 4G General] halorin:
The limitation clearly sucks, but you know. I still have a pretty good experience with the phone. It's the screen delay that I don't like when touching and swiping and the weird scrolling that I don't like. Apparently there well be a patch for those things so I can live with waiting.

If I was going to return the phone it would be on the principle that HTC lied to users by omission.
[EVO 4G General] SPENONE:
Can anyone give me cliff's as to what the issue was with the HERO?....and then how it was resolved?...was it the same exact issue? Was HTC saying it was a hardware issue also?
[EVO 4G General] Shidell:
The Kernel will be available, the drivers are available, the OS (Froyo) will be available, and all open source.

That means, bar none, if it is not a hardware limitation, it'll be resolved.

I'm not worried at all, and brushing up on my knowledge on the Touch in the interim.
[EVO 4G General] EtherealRemnant:
If it is true what has been said about the LCD being on MDDI and the HDMI being on RGB, then it IS a hardware limitation because MDDI can't push more than 30hz.