yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus One General] chowlala:
And thus the assumption is to think they don't know it? It takes HUGE guts to do what G did with the N1. Going online and taking it offline must've been embarrassing for them and I'm pretty sure they aren't in their meditation chambers feeling all stoked about it. They're reeling from multiple setbacks if you haven't noticed. Wave, Buzz, the whole **** with data catching, in the end, it's still a company being run by people who are humans beings and need some slack.

Sure, we're not entirely thrilled with how they've managed the OS. But like I said. Look back at how they've moved from 1.5 to 2.2 and you'll be thankful they've moved at lightning pace and like Andy Rubins said, the updates will eventually end up being paced out to 1 year, which means they know they need to give us firmer dates and this comes from the yearly cycle of a matured OS product.
[Nexus One General] Old MuckenMire:
I don't think you're wrong in what you say and I think you provide a good counter point. None of us is all right or all wrong.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Unless Google was FOS at Google I/O, Froyo must be way beyond the hands of the developers at this juncture.

My guess is this time is not to "perfect" Froyo so much as it is to give Market application developers time to get up to speed. Nothing like a paid app that doesn't work anymore come release time. Whatever the case, Google should be talking about it.
[Nexus One General] PacoL250:
And you're probably right with this one. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but the SDK and NDK for Android 2.2 was released only recently, correct?

So using your logic here, that's probably why there's no concrete release date. Once they feel that the app developers have had their time in getting and using the Android 2.2 SDK and/or NDK, then at that point they'll probably either announce a release or start pushing out OTA updates.
[Nexus One General] ChillRays:
Google is just as bad as Bungie (makers of the game Halo).. people wait 2-3 years between games just to hear a release date. So coming from a hardcore gamer, this is nothing new to me.

Not to be greedy but this works out perfect for me. I get the N1 (tomorrow) and I play with 2.1 for two weeks then get 2.2 .. I'm livin the dream =)
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Not annoyed really, just observing a big opportunity for improvement in the way they communicate with their customer what they are doing and when. It's Android that brought my attention to it, but if you look back, they did silly things with gmail before it was public, they are not very forthcoming about Gvoice plans, and now Android. If their goal is to cause people angst, they are succeeding. I have a version of Froyo I am happy with, I have google voice and I had gmail before it was available to everyone. But I have noticed a lot of people very anxious for their turn, and their is little to no communication about what delays and lack of information are about.

What I do find annoying is that I bring something up and get ridiculed for it in the first page of the thread. Google is not a deity, and I think the company can handle a little criticism without me burning in hell for it, in spite of what some here think.
[Nexus One General] chowlala:
Again, correct point. The OS has moved so fast that the devs have no time to keep up with the new SDK's and API's. Buying time here with the dropped beta candidate gives the market time to catchup. A sterling leap from 10k apps in Jan to 50k apps means there's a lot of people that need time too. Remember, at the I/O Andy Rubins said he wants developers. Fanatics like us will always be here. (well, almost always. =P) But they don't wanna piss of devs I'm sure. Hehe. =)
[Nexus One General] mykenyc:
That do makes sense cause not a lot of developers even updated there apps for froyo...like A LOT OF THEM
[Nexus One General] temperbad:
I think its funny how yall think the official froyo will be any different. Of course may fix a few minor bugs that not everyone is experiencing anyways and will regardless of the official. Everything will have bugs. The official will just have a few different ones then some of what are experiencing. But the real (if ya wanna call it that) froyo wont be any different. I mean for real, What are you guys expecting.

If your running froyo. You got froyo. The real deal ain't gone.a be any more astounding. I for one love this release and think it beats the pants off 2.1.

I do agree they should give a date and just get er done, but as far as it being any different or better. I highly doubt It. Especially in such short amount of time.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Nah. I'll just obstinately stick to my guns until someone makes a valid argument that shows Google knows how to manage a product release.

I've already conceded that Froyo isn't actually vaporware.

Try posting a fact or two and then maybe we'll have a discussion.

Sure. So your basically saying that they had no idea what they were talking about at Google I/O? Got a link to that official project issues list?
[Nexus One General] mykenyc:
If there wasn't something missing why wouldn't they release it in a competitive market like phones?
[Nexus One General] attn1:
It would have been far better to pick a reasonable release date and let everyone know how much time they had to work out issues. That way everyone is on the same page and how much work needs to be done.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
not sure I understand your meaning.
[Nexus One General] mykenyc:
basically you saying what proof is there that they're withdrawing the update for bugs and crap. I'm asking the opposite what would be the reason for them not to release it. If your google, but you know your community is dying for your upgrade and with the new release of the iPhone my only logic would tell me that they holding it because its either not stable to their needs or like others said maybe they waiting on developers, but I'm going with my theory.
[Nexus One General] Old MuckenMire:
I remember when people were asking what possible reason could the delay for the Verizon Nexus One be caused by.

That didn't turn out good.

I mean, Google knew the community wanted the Verizon Nexus real bad but that didn't cause them to release one.

Not saying Froyo is the Verizon Nexus, I'm just saying....

the reason could be ANYTHING, and some of the reasons could be real bad.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Now see, there just isn't any "or else". They can continue to behave the way they do, and lose some consumer and partner confidence. It's their choice, though I don't think it's the right one.

I like Android, and I prefer it over any other mobile OS. Mostly because of it's open source nature and guys like cyanogen and Modaco and a host of others that innovate and push the envelope of function and performance. Google is shrewd enough to capture those efforts and merge them into their products, but that doesn't mean they can't manage it better and treat potential partners and customers better than mushrooms.
[Nexus One General] mykenyc:
Honestly in my humble opinion i think that was google whole idea in the first place. I mean come on phones just don't pop out of thin air. They probably knew sprint was getting the Evo, and Verizon was getting the Incredible not to mention a slew of other phones headed their way, the nexus one in a 'sense' is irrelevant, it's only relevant to some because we want Froyo first. If everyone had the chance to get Froyo same time as nexus no one would care honestly(maybe some because the nexus one build quality is amazing).
[Nexus One General] PacoL250:
Actually, I'd rather not have a release date and just know that they have something in the works. From a marketing and PR standpoint, that's better.

Think about it this way. Using the Sprint and Verizon N1 examples, they had mentioned that those carriers would get the N1. Turns out that Google was wrong on that. So going back to Android 2.2, if Google had a specific release date announced, and realized they couldn't make it, there's more PR damage control they have to deal with.

Leaving it open, with giving us a taste of what to come, is better than that PR mess.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
If Google knew how to address consumers and partners, we'd know the answer to that question.

We can only speculate, but coming from a software development environment, I doubt it's because they are working on bug fixes as the product is announced and the release is supposed to be "within a few weeks" away. Generally accepted practice for large software development projects is to freeze code well before a planned release, and issue a go - no go verdict once testing is complete. The frozen code is then released. If that's not what Google is doing, then they are far worse than I think. The 2.2 SDK was released as Google I/O was in session, so it's reasonable to conclude that the "few weeks" has little to do with fixing bugs so much as it does allowing application developers to get ready for the release. That's just my thinking, however, and is not based on any real information, since we don't have any.
[Nexus One General] chowlala:
Lol, this is probably true. Google most likely has the package ready to roll. Otherwise why roll out an new SDK and API component? Doesn't make any sense. Gathering from what we DO KNOW - we have the beta already. Alpha is just around the corner and let's just sit back and hope G will be good on it's "few weeks". It's been 2.5 already. Let's say with some slack we look at 1.5 weeks more to go before we bring out to enchiladas and pitchforks. =) Good?
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Wouldn't it be even better if you were prepared and actually had a clue about publicity when you spoke publicly about your major products and releases, rather than shooting from the hip? Then not only do consumer feel more confident in what you say, but your partners do, too.
[Nexus One General] Blueman101:
I disagree, using your analogy if the nexus one was replaced on verizon with the increadible, then 2.2(unofficial) may be replaced by 3.0 gingerbread. That is the only thing I could think of as to why Google was so easy in telling us that manual updaters will still be able to get the official. Because 3.0 overshadows 2.1 and 2.2 anyway. Perhaps they were closer to finishing 3.0 then they were letting on to and instead of finishing 2.2 they jsut said, **** it and lets put a bit more time into it and release full blown 3.0 instead of 2.2's baby steps. (outward thinking could be totally wrong though)
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Well, Alpha precedes Beta. I am not sure what we have, but whatever was released is pretty damned good. I'm not having a single issue with it. I was only a little surprised that right off the bat, launcher pro seemed to work smoother than the stock launcher while adding enhanced functionality. But that's a minor thing and in no way a bug, really. Someone else just had something better ready, and it's going to happen. But absolutely everything I have noticed about the 2.2 I have is a step up from 2.1.

Some people have complained about the new radio firmware, but someone always complains about new radio firmware. For some reason, not everyone has the same experience with updates.
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
You want to talk about waiting for a release date, try Gran Turismo... for ****s sake I have had Gran Turismo 5 paid for for 2 years! *rocks back and forth* GT5... GT5... GT5... GT5...
[Nexus One General] Old MuckenMire:
Except that the Incredible was NOT an upgrade from the Nexus One! It was also not good for the hope that we would have more devices not locked to a carrier. If you're being reasonable, you have to admit this man.

The cancellation of the Verizon Nexus was a major blow, and cannot be spun that the Incredible was superior and released instead,, and that it all worked out, imo.

We'll be lucky as hell if Google ever releases a non branded Nexus(2) ever again.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Can we move on to arguing about post #4 now, or is it safe to say that one is a no-brainer?
[Nexus One General] attn1:
True. For those that prefer an unbranded Android phone, it's going to be much harder to fill that niche in the future, for sure. Every manufacturer wants to put their stamp on their hardware. Well, it's fine if you are just adding stuff that can easily be removed. But HTC Sense ain't that. Nor is MotoBlurry and the AT&T experience. Most Verizon and Sprint customers will never really know what they missed by not getting a Nexus One.

There are also good development reasons to maintain a common platform framework and not goof around with it for the sake of any custom UI.
[Nexus One General] walie:
exactly, just look at blizzard, they announced Diablo 3 quite a while back, and they did announce a release date: "When its done" would you guys be complaining if Google released the same statement?

In Canada, there is only 1 carrier that offers an umlimited data plan for iphones/smartphones, all others have offered tiered data from the beginning and we get by just fine, so its not the end of the world for you americans, although hearing you complain about it is very entertaining
[Nexus One General] Old MuckenMire:
Just like a Canadian. We're getting ****ed in Canada, so you might as well get ****ed in the US. Sorry we don't take to getting screwed the way you do.
[Nexus One General] Jack Everyman:
Regarding post #4 I don't think there is a need to make a rule that banner ads can't be on paid apps. Because of the nature of the market and the trial period where you can get a refund if you uninstall, I think the market will take care of itself. I imagine any dev foolish or greedy enough to put ads on a paid app would get flamed in their comments. But your points regarding data usage for obtrusive ads when AT&T are going to a metered system are very valid.

The issue is essentially AT&T's low cap of 2 GBs a month. With the netflix app, over 3G you'd only be able to watch roughly 7 hours of video. And that's if you didn't do anything else with your data connection. I'd be interested to see how much data the ads in general use, but if they are cutting into the precious data plan then they definitely will need to be limited or customers are going have a hell of a time with their bills.

Google announced a similar ad scheme in their I/O but T-Mobile isn't metered and sprint said as of now they won't be metering their data, so the same potential isn't there. I'm not sure what verizon is up to as of yet. They have said that come 4g tiers are going to be necessary, but we shall see.
[Nexus One General] walie:
Your unlimited data is gone, deal with it

the funny thing is, I get 6GB for 15 BUCKS with Rogers, you guys are getting, what, 2GB for $25? :D
[Nexus One General] Old MuckenMire:
dude I'm under contract with ATT for another year and a half with an unlimited blackberry data plan(just put SIM in Nexus). I ain't lost jack.. you're the one with no unlimited data. :p And as of right now, I can keep my unlimited plan after my contract is up, too. Not that I trust ATT to keep that promise. But, that is why we open our mouths down here, rather than just take it like you do. Maybe they will keep their word if we ***** enough. Sure can't hurt.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
So then you are okay that they promote advertisement on your dime?

I am okay with tiered data plans. It's fair. That's not the issue. Go back and re-read the post.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Verizon has pretty much committed to tiered data plans for the future, according to statements they've made as recently as last month.

It's a little different with Android in the US, because here users have some choice regarding carriers that still offer unlimited data. But many parts of the world do not. I don't think it's right to expect users to pay for data to get ads - anywhere in an OS and particularly on paid apps. If you want to place ads on a trial version of software, fine, but it should never be allowed on a paid version.

Today, Apple introduced iAds like they are an innovative source of revenue for app developers. That's not innovation; it's theft.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
I can. I just don't think it's ethical to use data someone else pays for on a tiered basis to send unsolicited ads. Tiered data is not the point, and I don't have it.
[Nexus One General] walie:
I pay for Cable TV, still get commercials
[Nexus One General] Ryanmo5:
Please clean up the language, there is no place for that kind of talk on xda. To all others please stay on topic.
[Nexus One General] ChillRays:
I think he means (from your example) that if you only had 1 hour maximum to watch cable tv, those commercials would eat away from that one hour which is completely weak and unfair.
[Nexus One General] :
What are you on? The manufacturer of the phone isn't the one deciding to send the ads, the carrier isn't the one deciding to send the ads, the developer of the application is OPTING into having ads so that YOU don't have to pay a dime for their application. They are not "unsolicited".

That's a great trade off to be honest. Now, whether YOU choose to align with a ****ty carrier like AT&T that limits bandwidth, that's an entirely different issue.
[Nexus One General] ztm.000:
my unlimited data isnt gone :D hahahahahahah
[Nexus One General] chowlala:
I get unlimited 3G data in my country for something like...

$9 or $10 USD. ROFLMAO ASIABBQPWNZ! =P

#4 post just got served!
[Nexus One General] PacoL250:
Quick point about the iAd platform, it's a bit much in regards to the revenue split. Also, if I have paid for an app or even generalizing this to a program, I really don't want to see blatant advertising splattered throughout. I can completely understand it for free programs however, though that should be left to the app developer, IMHO. Not sure exactly how iAd will be fully implemented, but as a user, I sure don't want to see ads in a app/program I paid for, that's for sure.

Well here's the thing: Google never once mentioned that they were announce a release date or anything of that nature for Android 2.2 (Froyo). Google I/O was used more as a showcase of features to come in Android, that's pretty much it.

It doesn't necessarily phase the consumer unless you give a concrete release date, but don't stick to it. Maybe some consumers want to know when the release is, but most Android consumers (I'm basing this off of my experience with business psychology and consumer behavior) are pleased with what is to come in Android's future and are in a state of excited anticipation.

The test release to portions of the public (e.g. the press, members of the hacking community, etc.) was just that: a test release. That's the nature of open source: let the community find bugs and such along with the company developing the product. For the most part, Android 2.2 (Froyo) is pretty much complete. It's all about final testing now.

As for Google's partners, carriers and phone manufacturers both, they are a bit worn out by the breakneck speed of development that Android has had. However, while Google wanted Android out to the public with Android 1.5 (Cupcake), the carriers and manufacturers simply could have told Google they wanted no part of an OS that wasn't as mature as they'd prefer. So all parties are at fault here, not just Google.

It's not really shooting at the hip, just a lot more different than some are used to in regards to the marketing and PR of a mobile phone OS.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Most of the world is on teired data, it's not just AT&T. Apple has announced iAds - in their locked down world, that means yes, they are sending the ads by building and fostering an environment where they would be prevalent.

As far as my choice of carriers go, I have a choice only between Verizon and AT&T, if I want 3g, with AT&T being the most reliable here. T-mobile can offer spotty Edge and voice only, and Sprint doesn't even have voice coverage here, and I have to travel 3 miles before I can even pick it up. I get heavy discounts for using AT&T, and I prefer GSM technology anyway. Verizon has said they are going to tiered data plans later this year. So here I am, on AT&T.

So you think ads belong on paid apps?
[Nexus One General] attn1:
That's reasonable.

Right. They didn't. But they did roll out Android 2.2 and said is was going to be released to the Nexus One within a few weeks. Then a few days later, mysteriously, a few phones around the world get an official update, which causes major confusion. That's a very fuzzy, bungled release announcement, no matter how you look at it.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Is there a limit on the amount of cable tv you can watch without paying a surcharge for heavier use, and do the commecials count against that limit?
[Nexus One General] hexix:
Re: Apple iOS4 announced today has hard release dates/Froyo release date still eludes

I think that's the point. Apple doesn't confuse their users about updates. They let you know they are coming on the horizon and make SDKs and betas available to developers so that they can ready their apps. When they announce a timeline for release it is a concrete date when EVERYONE can download it.

Contrast that to Google who you think would be more open. They don't offer betas and give fuzzy release dates.

I think we will all get the update soon and it's not a huge deal, but I much prefer Apples update strategy. Google's makes me feel like they are having serious issues on their side.

-------------------------------------

Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
[Nexus One General] :
.....if the developer of the application chooses to.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
True. Does that make it okay? Should ads be allowed at all on paid apps?
[Nexus One General] arkavat:
Very well said. I think this pretty much sums up the whole discussion. Now, as it is a new day, I hope people read this with a cool head and move on.

Although the ad discussion is quite interesting. I hope the discussion continues on that point.
[Nexus One General] techlogik:
For the most part I agree...but the issue with selling retail is just ridiculous to say.

Go tell every other phone vendor and cell provider (i.e. Apple etc) that same complaint...they are all selling Wal-Mart and retail now. The power of these retail operations is far too successful and proven to ignore and not put your product on their displays.
[Nexus One General] :
If the developer feels the need to do that, why not? You get advertisements in magazines you pay for, In video games you pay for, etc.

Would I personally pay for an app with ad? lol no.
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Yup, so they are closing down the online store. Got any idea when?
[Nexus One General] kikikaka:
i somehow understand google .. I am working as a developer, sometimes I also don't want to give a very concrete date when the task can be completed :) ... That's still ok within the team, however if we are facing the customers, our clients, this is a different story, we can't say few weeks, in the near future, later..
[Nexus One General] attn1:
Well, when you have to pay by the words read and pictures looked at in the magazine, or by the minutes you play the video game which is interrupted by ads, it's the same thing as pushing ads out in applications when the user has to pay for the data it uses.

The ads use data, however small the amount is, and that's not unlimited in most places, and any overages, however small, cost the user a significantly more money.

Maybe I should be clearer, I am not talking about an ad and a link hard coded into the application that would use no additional data, I am talking about banners and sometimes even multimedia ads that change according to who the current advertisers are. As new ads (banners, links etc) refresh, they continue to use data. Renting add space in a paid app should just not be allowed.