yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] frmariam:
Wrong section for this thread... But...

Many WinMo devices in the past never received official updates... My phone is from 2008 and didn't even receive a 6.5 update...

If you ask me Microsoft is going in the wrong direction. . They abandoning everything that made the platform great to focus on interface and dumb down the OS (I hate how they are iPhoning the system). In a nutshell it's the PocketPC deevolved from a tiny computer into a mere feature phone... They have already lost a great deal of 3rd party developer (professional and amateurs... most freeware devs and hackers got off the wagon)... The lack of quality freeware and OSS content is what will utterly drive me and many others to Android.

Samsung has released Bada... HTC doesn't seem pleased with the UI modifications constraints and has an ever increasing number of Android devices... Regardless of my opinion about them they are the current two biggest WinMo phones producers. If these two companies drop the platform it's as good as dead.

The signs of death are way older than this (just look at the state of many OSS projects and emulation... also the smaller number of commercial apps and quality games... even some bogus apps iPhone clones that users currently request here). Adobe is just throwing a tantrum (but considering Microsoft is pushing Sirlverlight, Apple is developing Gianduia and the eminence of HTML5... I don't know if they can afford the price) very much like Mozilla did when they cancelled Fennec for WinMo.
[General Topics] masrterk:
install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol
[General Topics] EmZvr:
We even lost support for Skype ! Whate a shame. Windows Mobile is really coming to its end :/

I recently bought a HTC HD2 and sold it because I realised there is no future in Windows Mobile..
[General Topics] BLAST3RR:
It might be the end of Windows Mobile.

But if our great XDA hackers manage to compile a fully functional Linux kernel with required drivers over time, I assure you the use of your device won't be lost. It's still one of the best hardware devices out there at the moment if you ask me.

With that, Windows Mobile will still be what it was. I'd not even WANT Windows 7 if it is heading the way it's going now..
[General Topics] samov:
You people need to get the facts right.

Firmware updates DO NOT COME FROM MICROSOFT.

They are custom built by each manufacturer.

It is HTC, SE, etc... that do NOT update their phones. They make money by selling hardware, so "no new features" on old hardware is an industry standard.

It is TRUE that windows mobile 7 will include an update feature similar to that of android where you can get OS updates without having to resort to flashing the whole firmware.

What isn't true is that microsoft will give you windows mobile 8 for free and so on...

Google is giving you "free" updates because android is a platform for google to sell it's services... gmail, calendar... etc.

TRUE STORY:

1. Make something easy to use and people will come running, and give up their privacy and data on the way.

2. People don't actually USE windows mobile. They just push the buttons. Windows mobile is a platform too, a business platform. You need a business built around MS technologies to take advantage of it's true value.
[General Topics] TeddY89h:
They told us, WM 6.5 will be continued for professional users. But I think, if this really happens, new software will be rare: Skype is off the hook. Many other may/will follow: They want big business with many customers.

I plan my switch to Android. HTC Desire is at the top of the wish list ;)!! I hope there will be as much quality software as there is for windows mobile here at XDA devs! I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing :(.
[General Topics] Tozzy2:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.

Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:

"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?

Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."

means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?

Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.

At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.

Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version :D). RIP windows mobile :( Good (in a way) while it lasted.
[General Topics] Stuhl_im_Orbit:
In my opinion in the near future many WM-programmers will switch to Android-programming. As we can see here in this community this switch has already started! That's a nice developement. I tested the HTC Legend last week and it was nice! You can even use the phone with minimal dependence on Google (apart from Android updates of course)!

Certainly the old Skype will work. But if Skype changes some fundamental things, you have to switch to programs with skype support like Fring. When WM is really dead, even the support for those apps would die, too.
[General Topics] Tozzy2:
But surely, eventually, someone could hack the TG01 to make it compatible with windows mobile 7 unless TG01 isn't hardware equipped to be able to run it? Perhaps there could be a slim chance? After all, the problem doesn't lie in the phone, but in the inupgradeable OS.
[General Topics] Simon_WM:
Guys your right!

its just dawned on me: What is the future of ' Microsoft Windows Mobile'

As Windows Phone 7, sounds rubbish and Wm is losing support from:

Skype IM

Adobe Flash 10.1

I fear the days are numbered before Android takes it thrown
[General Topics] atomic2mod:
I'm disappointed as well.

I'm heavily relying on Outlook to sync up two pocket pc phones (TP2s), as well as SpbFinance.

I wonder what's going to happen to Outlook, once Windows doesn't cater to adults, but only social networking teens and tweens? I imagine that other OSes, that put in some effort to use Outlook & Exchange, will eventually drop that too.
[General Topics] stephj:
I have a second PC at home with OpenSUSE 11 on it, more as a curiosity than anything else. Maybe it's time to install GCC, the Eclipse IDE, and the Android SDK on it and start all over again. I'll probably start hanging out in the Android Development Forum.

As an aside, all the above are available totally gratis. Download them, install and run them, all under the GNU licenses.

In the early days Microsoft gave away Embedded Tools 3 (C++ and VB) and the later improved Embedded C++ 4.0, with the sole purpose of getting the platform moving. That vision seems to have gone, but it's probably too late now anyway.
[General Topics] drizo72:
This forum was an excellent lesson for Microsoft to follow the Google/Android model instead of Apple/iPhone.

Unfortunately for us, MS decided to follow the Apple/iPhone model, at least for their phone line of business..

I do believe though that the driving force of XDA is such that it could force MS into creating a WM/PocketPC series of devices based on WM6.5.x following the Google/Android model.

MS fears that if they do that, they will cannibalize WP7 sales, as everybody would love it:

- OEMs would not have to dump their development investments

- DEVELOPERS would have the choice to continue to use their libraries or use Silverlight,

- END USERS would continue to use their purchased software,

- even MS itself would love strong demand for devices like HD2 which would in turn bring strong license revenues.

Boiling everything down into one question to MS:

- Since, all that most people need is a phone with a notification system and apps marketplace, why couldn't you put this into any WM phone? Cheap, effective, and guaranteed to increase OS sales.

Answer: Well we did this... (Marketplace, Office 2010 etc.)

- Too late, you first killed the product and now you are trying to save it!

IT IS THE ERA THAT HAVE CHANGED, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY. I believe that WP7 would simply be the Windows Vista... WP7.1 (with WM6.5 app legacy support and multitasking) will be the Windows 7 of MS mobile phones.

In any case, if I was MS, I would have never introduced WP7 in the first place until I had it ready as my market expects it to be... How could they fall into the Osborne Effect? Did they expect that this wouldn't happen with MS? Well it did...

Dimitris
[General Topics] corwin42:
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.

The only thing MS didn't understand for years is that one very elementary thing is missing for Windows Mobile.

A FREE development platform with a STYLEGUIDE and a nice set of STANDARD GUI Controls which look good, are finger friendly and easy to use. Go to the iPhone Development Homepage and you will see what I mean.

Even with WM6.5.x they didn't learn this. They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.

This is all good and was the right way. But why is there no documentation on how to implement titanium plugins? Why is there no documentation and API on how to use the new controls? Why don't old programs use the new skinnable look of the controls? Why is there no API for gestures in .NET CF? ...

The support for programmers is absolutely worse (you can say not existent) for WM6.5.x so nobody wants to develop for it anymore!

Best regards,

Markus
[General Topics] lbcoder:
Sure many applications are disappointing, but there are JUST SO MANY that you need not worry about the ones that are garbage.

Its the same with EVERY platform.

And being in the US #2 market share position while WM sits within the #4 "other" position, you can be assured that Android already has FAR FAR FAR more software developers than WM will *EVER* see again.
[General Topics] KukurikU:
that's HTC's GUI covering the ugly, ugly, WM. M$ has no merit in this!

WP7 is going to be born dead. too little, too late!! what could WP7 bring new now? hubs? they took the wrong turn following\copying the iPhone model. :mad:

i am on my way to android!
[General Topics] frmariam:
I think he's refering to WM itself. Manilla is everything but lite! In all latest devices HTC has been draining phone resources left and right for the sake of their trademark GUI.

The notion most users have of Android is also basically the HTC GUI (the Android basic GUI is also not that great).

I also think WM is on the brink of death but the fact is Android is not the answer. AFAIK the apps developed don't have capped access to the machine resources so we can forget about apps that really require everything the machine can give (such a good universal media player).
[General Topics] DukeNukem:
I writing an app now for Windows Mobile and I'm writing it for Windows Mobile as its the only platform that it can be written on as it makes use of a number of technologies and features that the other phones lack (I will admit Android is closest and hence a prime interest of mine for future projects). Windows Phone is a step backward technologically for sure, but the success of the iPhone proves that technology has little to do with market success.

I don't think the problem is technology, I think the problem is managing people's expectations and battery life. For example everyone wants GPS, Wifi and cellular data etc with apps running in the background using them all, but that is a battery killer and hence a phone killer. Apple's solution was to limit via the OS what could be running at any one time and hence while Microsoft might claim it was crappy apps that were causing problems (and there is some truth to that, but crappy coders are pretty much a universal problem on any platform and again if I limit what an application platform can do I also limit the damage crappy coders can do), the real problem was battery life and I think the Android is going to find the same problem. So in reality limiting the OS is really about limiting users and helping to manage their expectations and if that can be done, then you can be successful like Apple and its iPhone who lowered user expectations technically and then achieved in filling those lowered expectations. They are continuing this success by raising technical expectations as technology allows them. For example video conferencing in their next iPhone as innovation, your kidding even my old HTC Universal had a forward facing camera for video conferencing years ago but network speeds tended to leave the user disappointed, but now cellular speeds might be up to snuff and Apple will be successful with this (battery life should be interesting of course).

So I don't think technology is the key in this market, I think its finding the balance between what is technically possible and user expectations, and so you might have to drop the technical level of the product down and then raise it as technology makes it possible which sounds exactly like what Microsoft is doing with the Windows Phone.
[General Topics] frmariam:
Marketing and design was the key to Apple's success.

For years Apple held their ground and finally had a beak with the iPod. It was small, had a huge memory and was good looking. All of a sudden Apple was cool again. Over the years (and hardware revisions) the iPod became a trend, an icon and the Apple brand was automatically associated with the concept of quality by the average Joe. At this point they barely needed to market their products or be innovative anymore they just release stuff that already exists in a prettier package but otherwise inferior (iPad anyone?)

Apple gained the smartphone marked based on the cool factor, it's icon status and good looks. The iPhone had a cool looking hardware and an appealing and easy to use OS. It's however an overpriced piece of hardware with an inferior OS but what can we do if people get stupid when they see shiny objects? The flock of users, hardware standardization and centralized online market attracted developers and now the iPhone has a huge amount of programs available (sure most suck but they also have some handy stuff and lots if games).

The Windows Mobile seems to have emerged originally as an OS for a tiny computer... Not a phone on steroids. Microsoft would always have a market just as long as they released a solid platform and offered what the others didn't... Microsoft hasn't been cool for a long time (it's not a crowd pleaser). It was easier to drown the opponent products when you could just through in pile of cash to regain terrain but this won't work anymore (Apple's rolling in it). If MS is going to release just another iPhone they their new OS is dead on the water.
[General Topics] soul33:
I'm totally upset by every program...
[General Topics] Z's Windows Phone:
Windows 7???

I feel the pain of every one here I have dealt with WM for years starting with the ipaq and loved that at the time. Then advanced to the dash for about a month only because I couldn't get the wing until then, from the wing I sold out for a short time going to the G1 which I had my doubts about but thought it was going to be a good move after some time (should have stood my ground) and I was dissappointed BIG TIME. Came to my senses and came back home to WM by getting the Touch Pro 2 and loved it "I had a thing for key boards had to have one" then three months later made the move that I thought I would never ever make buying a totally touch screen phone the HD2 and honestly the only reason I did was because it offered a nice size on screen key board for my fingers. I Love it I Love it I Love it!!!!! :)

I am new to a lot of the things well most of the things that I am learning you can do to these phones and with all that isn't it possible to upgrade the phone to 7? I know it is a change but to me it does offer some pretty cool things that I am sure that a lot of us wish we could do on the HD2.

Well (creator willing) I entend to enjoy, add, upgrade, etc... my HD2 as long as friends and helpers like all those here teach me and makes all the app and software that is being done.

Thank You ALLLLL!!!!!:D:D:D
[General Topics] masrterk:
mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update

install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol
[General Topics] orb3000:
You hate it or you love it: Strong emotions: WM

On my opinion we are far away from seeing the end of WM, in fact is more present than ever!

We are just about to see how it splits into 2 completely different OS:

WM6.5.x

WP7

Thanks to WM is that iPhone and Android OS are where they are today.

WM has a lot more to give, whether you like it or not WM is standing as a reference on mobile devices since 2003 and I´m sure with WP7 a lot of people will go back to it.

It has it´s own low downs as any other OS, but personally I find it the most complete and friendly with my environment: Pleasure/work
[General Topics] psuser:
the only reason make me unhappy with WM is where is my latest flash 10.1
[General Topics] mointernet:
Windows Mobile 6.5 lives

Windows Mobile 6.5
[General Topics] Z's Windows Phone:
Have You Done Any Flashing???

Have you done any flashing? If you haven't then you don't know what your missing, I just got hooked on this new world.

But I do have the Shell 3.5 after upgrading to 2.10 I liked the difference I saw so I decided not to re-install it and now with the new flash (Creator willing) i'm about to have "Axlor Leo 2.5" coming out tomorrow im really not missing it for me the only big thing for me was the 1, 3 or 5 choice for the home / favorites page with the new roms I get it. I rearly played with the carosel or used it for chosing anything. One of the big things I didn't like was if I wanted to erase particular phone calls I couldn't you have to erase the whole log. But for someone who will use it it is a great app.

This place here offers almost anything you could want. I am really enjoying this place.

And I don't think we will have anything to worry about WM will (insha'allaah) be around for a looooooooong looooooooooong time.
[General Topics] addicus:
I've been around here for a few years. I had a 8125, 8525 and now a HD2. I bought the HD2 with the knowledge it wouldn't be "upgradeable" to Windows Phone 7.

Now I'm not mad at MS for what they are doing. I expected to hate it, but to be honest I think the set up for Windows Phone 7 is freaking awesome. Every phone will have a lot of storage, fast processors, easy access to business applications and personal applications making them great for all people.

My issue is what MS isn't doing. They aren't continuing with what makes their r product freaking awesome and that's the lack of a file explorer and cab files. It is what it is. I have a great phone that will last quite a while right now so I can see how the different Os's will grow and make my decision after adjustments and analysts has been made. I still like WP7 better than what I've seen with Android or the Iphone, but not as much as WM6.5.

I would love to have the new flash program for WM6.5. No doubt.
[General Topics] :
I doubt tablets are going to overrun smartphones.

The only people I will see using tablets as an alternative would be iSheep.

The lack of backwards compatibility was a necessary move.

Resetting the program-base means there are no bad apps.

It forces developers to create an up-to-date version with decent graphics (very, very rare with Windows Mobile ATM).

Think of the WP7 design. Now think of the 6.x programs.

Combining the two would not create a modern OS.
[General Topics] corwin42:
I only agree partly here. The problem is that the cut is too hard. Since there is only Silverlight for development and no more .NET CF or native applications many developers have to start from zero with their programs. The other thing is that Silverlight is quite limited in some sections so it is very hard to port some old programs.

If I have to start from zero and Silverlight is too limited I would first look if there is a better platform for implementing my application. And with iPhone and Android there are quite good alternatives.

Another thing is that I for myself have developed some freeware applications or some applications for my own use. This is not really possible with WP7 since all apps have to be distributed over the marketplace. But I won't spend money just to give my apps away for free.
[General Topics] zarpy:
backwards

If they dont change thier minds about allowing backwords compatibility then yes windows mobile is ruined.
[General Topics] Makkand:
My thoughts on MS Positioning on Windows Mobile

Microsoft have already admitted to failures in Windows Mobile, lost opportunities etc, however it's all about placement.

For 'techies' who know what they are doing have set their expectations, and many are happy.

For the mass consumer market windows mobile is clunky and you only have to look at other OS's to see what trick Microsoft have missed. MS needs to make it pretty, which I believe they have done.

If there are bad apps that effect stability then there are bads apps - managing the apps is a must.

If more functions kill the battery then they should look at their happy competitors.

Microsoft needs to realise they have a wider audience that want it all - please the techies and please the mass consumer market.

As for Adobe / skype pulling out, they answer to a demand too, just like Java for XP (pre service pack 1).

The mass market, when being demonstrated a MS phone do not know of any history of Windows mobile or its direction, they know what functionality exists and they want to see it - SLICK!

So finally, Microsoft, if you build it, they will come!
[General Topics] :
It has its downsides, but I think it's necessary. It's a modern OS, it's time to step away from Windows 95 looks. While the media requires high app figures if you want to be credited, WP7 does not need every WM developer to become a WP7 developer. Quality over quantity; I'd rather have an app store of 1000 quality apps than an app store of a billion fart apps.

I personally find the price for free apps also rather unnerving - not quite sure what MS was trying to do there.
[General Topics] LGIQEXPO:
I agree completely with that! Our phones are far from dead! They have got plenty of power in hardware and specs, and guess what?! The developers on XDA I would say can accomplish more the Windows themselves ever could! I Have complete faith that Windows Mobile will continue to strive because of all these amazing people all over who still believe in WinMo!!! So.... To all you WinMo users.....I say WE UNITE!!!!
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] s15274n:
Anyone have an idea what could cause the phone to reboot on notifications?

I am not certain if it is the ROM - I seem to be the lone person with the issue so I am curious if there are other things I need to be checking on?

The ROM was HTCCLAYS CSDI... I love the speed of CSDI so I thought I would try this one out, and it has been amazing... but these reboots are killing me. Curious if this is a sign of other problems, like my SD card or something though.

I followed the recommended setup process and did fix_permissions
[Hero CDMA General] brewdude:
Are there any of the new roms that allow the phones phonebook to be visible on bluetooth devices? Using Fresh 2.1.1 and can stream, but I'd like to access the phonebook as well.
[Hero, G2 Touch Themes and Apps] Viktor.Tsoy:
Is there any browser which can support flash videos on hero?
[Hero, G2 Touch Themes and Apps] G8D:
Only the default browser, just not all videos.
[Hero, G2 Touch Themes and Apps] Viktor.Tsoy:
Thank you so much, Sir
[Nexus One General] momentarylapseofreason:
http://www.google.com

It plays on my computer and my friends' phones but not their own Nexus One? :confused: