yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] doozethe:
I've got a Raph100, I constantly get these issues, it's definitely not an issue specific to the Fuze. It seems like it's a capacitative button calibration bug of some sort - it's usually OK when the phone first boots, but within minutes it starts to go crazy. There might be drift in the calibration of the panel after the device has been on for a while, perhaps it might require a larger "dead zone" like PC/console game controllers have so if the calibration drifts slightly from the center it ignores it within some tolerance - either way there's got to be a bug in the driver somewhere, if i knew where the driver lived in the source I'd take a look myself, but I'm a bit pressed for time these days.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] paypalbid:
OK, so I have been doing some strange experiments and it has seem to have alleviate this issue. I helped me or it could just be a placebo effect.

When I had the random buttons light going crazy. I took my battery out and reboot just like everyone else. When I explore the SD card to find the haret.exe file. Instead of using the touch screen I use the hard key to scroll down to the haret.exe file then executed it with the center hard button instead of tapping the touch screen to load haret.exe. I tried this for 2 days and it seemed to help my hard buttons from going crazy.

I also upgraded the latest LaucherPro Beta v0.6.7.3 and seems to do ok too.

This is not scientific in anyway but if it helps or not please share your experience and findings.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
I've also heard that you should NOT touch the capactive/hard keys while Android is booting...

So don't touch the jogwheel or any of the buttons down below when Android is booting. I've NEVER had a problem with random buttons 'going crazy'...
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] doozethe:
I definitely don't touch the buttons (or screen) during boot, they're all clean, and the phone is only about 4 months old. I've had the problem actually occur under windows mobile once or twice in the whole time I've had the device, but it occurs on almost every boot of android. It's the only thing preventing me from using it as my main OS, because I can't hang up from calls, it likes to call people when I'm just hitting the home button - all sorts of really annoying stuff.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
Weird... I definitely don't have this issue. Never experienced it in WinMo either. Admittedly, there has been some issues with the buttons not working right when I press them, but I can't say they would go crazy and call people. There was a few times where I would try to hit back and it would hit the end key etc...
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] nkrick:
It really sounds like this is an issue that can affect any TP, but is far more common on the Fuze. Maybe there was a bad batch of capacitive panels and most of them ended up going into the Fuze because that is what was being manufactured when the bad batch came in. There is no question that there is some sort of problem, and because I can reproduce the problem in both Android and WM, I believe it is a hardware problem.

Try downloading the "NavDbgTool.exe" that is part of the "htc test.zip" file. You should be able to find it on XDA or via a google search. If you have a device that has this problem, you should be able to launch this tool (btw, the properties have the file as hidden so you may need to change the properties or use total commander to access the utility) and reproduce the problem by messing around with the capacitive panel for a little while. When the problem starts to occur, I can see the actual "touches" that are occurring (because it shows them on the screen) and the scroll wheel "lights up" (on the screen) showing that something is activating it. Once the scroll wheel goes crazy, the right and left side frequently start registering random touches to, or if you do actually touch, it thinks that you continue to touch without removing your finger even after you stop touching.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
If you can reproduce the issue in WinMo, then I'm not sure what the Android devs are going to be able to do for ya.

It's a great OS, but it can't overcome hardware issues!!
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] martinamw:
Its not a hardware issue, there's no posts about it on the win forums,and why is people talking about .exe files??

Anyway, touching the stupid scroll wheel will produce inputs. You can see this in the terminal. I have tried deleting some /dev/input/ files to no avail yet.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] ccmxda:
I will add my vote in for disabling the scroll wheel, but I dont think the wheel alone is the only issue.

Its not a hardware or WinMo problem, I have never experienced this until android.

a few issues:

-some of the hard buttons will remain lit, or the hard buttons and the scroll button will go nuts

-the scroll button will constantly do the charging light when nothing is going on, no notifications and not charging

-the Android interface will go nuts selecting things or highlighting things on the interface without any interaction on the hard buttons

I have to think these issues contribute to battery drain also

I still love the devs for this and still choose it over Winmo even with these issues. THANKS!
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
Yes, of course the scroll wheel produces inputs... is it not supposed to? I thought that was expected behavior, and not what people are talking about in this thread. They say that all the capacitive buttons go nutso on the phone randomly.

I HIGHLY doubt that. I do agree that the buttons do have some sensitivity issues, but I seriously doubt that it has any relation to the battery drain.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] ccmxda:
Don't the lights utilize battery, as well as activity on the screen utilize battery?
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
But let's take a moment to think about how much an LED consumes in power...

Then let's think about how much power an unoptimized radio or wifi chip consumes...

I rest my case. I agree that the buttons don't quite work right, but I completely disagree on the battery drain concept. This would be one of the last things I would consider for battery consumption.

The screen/display definitely consumes more power than the LED as well. Unless you're saying that the buttons going crazy is constantly waking the device up perhaps...?
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] nkrick:
Just because you have not seen reports of problems in WM does not mean they don't exist. Here is just one that I knew where to find quickly: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=6584820&postcount=1499 . I have seen other reports also.

There are definately some different behaviors between the problems we see in xdandroid versions the problems in WM, but the capacitive touch panel is at the root of them. Because the capacitive touch is not used as much in Windows, the problems are less noticeable.

First, since the buttons do not light up individually through the capacitive touch in WM, it is not as easy to see when the capacitive touch area is "locked." That does not mean it doesn't happen, just that it is not easily seen.

Second, I commonly have problems in WM where the zoom wheel keeps zooming in and out constantly on e-mail (or old versions of Opera), or zooms all the way in (or out) and I cannot change the zoom level (which is the same root problem as the zoom/scroll wheel in xdandroid moving the highlighted/selected area all over the screen ("going crazy" as it has been called).

I also experience times when I cannot use one of the buttons. For example, I cannot use the hang up button to turn off my display because every time I hit it, the capacitive panel registers that I am hitting the back button (because it is stuck thinking I am touching the back button area when I do the click). I have experience this problems with button presses not registering correctly in both xdandroid and WM.

I do not know of any version of the NavDbgTool.exe for android, but please test it on WM before you start dismissing the possibility that it is a hardware problem just because you don't think you have seen the issues in WM. There are several reports of the problem in WM (that is how I originally found the link to the NavDbgTool), it is just not widespread because the affects are generally not nearly as noticeable in WM (unless you are doing the right activity, or you test with the NavDbgTool).
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] nkrick:
Issues 1 & 3 definately exist, they are the exact same problems that I see (I also see directly related issues in WM, as my previous post says).

Issue 2 sounds like the deep sleep "breath" to me, which is exactly what the zoom/scroll wheel light is supposed to be doing when the device is in deep sleep. Since the backlights are LEDs, the power used for this is so low that it makes almost no difference to the battery drain.

While I know that the xdandroid developers cannot do anything to fix a hardware problem (if that is what it is), the affects of the hardware problem could be lessened by removing the scroll wheel (making it do nothing). I don't think anyone uses the scroll wheel to scroll - the scrolling behavior is too strange (going both down and up as you circle the wheel) to make it useful. The WM implimentation as a zoom wheel in specific applications is much more useful, but not when it malfunctions and causes random zooming.

To clarify, capacitive touch actions from the scroll wheel is what we are asking to be disabled. The Capacitive touch output is still needed so that when the hard buttons under the wheel are pressed they will work as directional arrows. So don't do anything on touch, just take actions on hard button presses.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] ccmxda:
I didnt think they were the cause, but a contributor, so just one more thing adding to it. But I understand now that they are led so it would be a minimal contributor to battery.

So then the other thing that could contribute is the screen going spastic while the lights go spastic. For example if you are viewing email, suddenly the screen will begin highlighting orange all over the list of emails, or on the home page it will start floating all over the icons with the orange highlight repeatedly while you are doing nothing. I'm not sure if it is related to the buttons lighting up, and perhaps the sensitivity, but I would think all that action on the OS while you are staring at the screen could contribute.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
Honestly if the screen is already on, 'doing things on the screen' won't hurt battery life. Wifi, BT, processor crunching a lot of numbers, etc are what drain battery life more than anything!
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] ccmxda:
Ah ok then just an annoyance more than anything. It has yet to actually select anything or send an F-you email to my boss without my knowledge, so I can deal with it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
Yea, that may be an issue if Android starts doing this. Kudos if the system can figure out which one of my contacts is my boss however :p
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] mrgino:
Figured this one out the hard way myself too...

AT&T Fuze / Raph 110.

1) If I put my phone in my pocket, the battery drains super-fast and it gets hot. I assumed "OK, pocket = heat = battery drain. no brainer."

2) If I sit the phone on my desk at work with the screen facing up, it stays nice and cool all day. battery lasts through a full day of work with normal usage (texting, time checking, a bit of web browsing).

3) If I sit the phone *in its case* on my desk, it has the same results as the pocket - hot, fast battery drain. this does not occur in WinMo.

I decided to set pm.debug_mask=2 in my startup.txt, which is supposed to "vibrate the phone lightly after it exits deep sleep." When it's on my desk, I only feel it vibrate when I pick it up. But if it's in the case or in my pocket, it vibrates so often I feel like I should buy it dinner.

Anyone else tried this test? I agree with others in this thread, if we could disable the capacitive input on these front hard buttons we could improve battery life quite a bit.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] arrrghhh:
My phone is either in the holster on my hip or on my desk/couch/coffee table. I honestly don't notice a different between either.

Can you try to just *touch* the capacitive buttons on the front when it's supposed to be in deep sleep? Perhaps hit the jog wheel? Just don't actually press the hard button down. Just get it to light up. Does it wake the phone up? Because my phone only wakes up when there's a notification, call, or I hit the power button on top. I haven't had it stay 'awake' while in the holster or anything like that at all... So I'm not sure why you would be getting such different results.

With that said, assuming the capacative buttons do wake the device up, then yes I would totally agree it's killing the battery.

What I was disagreeing with is that the LEDs lighting was killing the battery.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] mrgino:
nope. hard buttons dont actually press. the screen never comes on either. that's why it's so weird, because i know those little LED's cant be causing the battery drain. But maybe something else in the OS is going haywire when those LED's are triggered?? really don't understand it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] naviru:
I agree. Scroll wheel is just useless to me. But what I observed is in WM once the scrolling start to behave strangely, wm disables it in someway, making it do nothing. Thus the zooming and scrolling won't work but the hardware buttons work well. I'm not sure I'm right but there might be something that stops the wheel once it goes up and down randomly and frequently.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] paypalbid:
Has anyone seen their wireless signal with 4 full bars ? I have been all over the state and have not seen full bars. Perhaps the lack of full strength is another factor for the battery consumption.

I got the 2000mah extended battery so my phone lasts about 12 hours. Moderate talk and text and web browsing through out the day.

3g on all day

sync on all day

facebook refresh every 4 hours

news and weather sync every 6 hours

turned the brightness is about 30% from being brightest

No Pandora or Radio stream unless phone is plugged in
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] baal_zebub:
still no solution for the scroll wheel problem ?

Hello,

i'm using android on the raphael only since a few weeks. I have the same problem with the scroll wheel as descibed from so many people.

But i did not see any news since july ? did someone solve the problem ?

i still have this problem! i tried all actual builds (neopeek and xdandroid) - always the same!

no solution ? there must be a solution - in WM i do not have a problem.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] R^7Z:
Upgrade your device? I believe someone said (before July, in another thread) that it actually does it while in WinMo but because of the way WinMo is setup or something about the OS, it doesn't register the same way as it does in Android. I actually don't have this problem with my Fuze if I update everything. Keeping in mind, it seems like it is still there (the problem will more than less likely be still present if you try to make the d-pad go crazy) but it also seems more stable. Are you updating the rootfs and kernel packages as mentioned in most threads? Also, which version of Android are you using XDAndroid, Neopeek or CyanogenMod?
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] baal_zebub:
on my raphael i use the original ROM. I just took of manila etc. -i need a 6.1 for some reasons. But actually, i can't believe, that it has anything to do with WM.

this wheel is disabled in WM (diamond tweak).

i use FRG83.R6 or cyanogenmod with neopeek installer. but i also tried actual XDAndroid - all the same.

It's not, that this wheel is totally weird - it works, but it's just annoying, because i have to be so careful, not to touch it - when i use dpad.

there must be a way to completely disable it - i just want dpad - no wheel.
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] R^7Z:
It's actually a hardware issue/not software. The d-pad wasn't a bad idea (in theory) but I believe someone summed it up much better than I have. Basically, Android detects is as a capacitive panel (I think) and it recognizes it more as two buttons, rather than four. I've tried a few of the Neopeek builds (namely gingerbread alpha 2) and have had very little issues with the buttons going crazy. I am currently using XDAndroid and I am having difficulty with making the buttons go crazy with the latest kernel and rootfs. Also, I am using the startup.txt included in the FRX03 (a few very minor modifications: no andboot/running everything from root and no OC).
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] broucker:
it behave s better when u start overclocked!
[Touch Pro, Fuze Android Development] R^7Z:
It doesn't for me so, "to each their own", is a fitting statement, my friend :)
[Hero, G2 Touch General] anarchyuk:
I drove 190 miles from Manchester to the north east of England with navigation on. I had the map view only on and the phone plugged into the car charger all the way! It seems the power consumption of using a 3g network and the gps chip well out weighs what a car charger can provide!!

Soon as I took it out of the car the phone died! anyone else tried a long journey like this yet?
[Hero, G2 Touch General] shotgunfool:
Iv not driven that far but i did 25 miles unplugged and i had 3 bars left =/
[Hero, G2 Touch General] clobber:
Make sure you are using a 2amp charger
[Hero, G2 Touch General] anarchyuk:
suppose it is in beta stage, If this is going to be a ongoing issue they need to add a pre caching feature for one lump of data every 30 mile or so instead on the fly!!

Ill check that today!!
[Hero, G2 Touch General] wywywywy:
From my experience there is no (or just not significantly meaningful) difference in charging speed between a 1a charger and a 2a charger. Maybe the phone just doesn't draw that much to prevent over heating.

However, a lot of car chargers are only 0.5a!
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Danltn:
.5A at 12V will still provide 6W of power. The phone takes 5V at 500mA normally. Which is 2.5W, even with losses should still be fine.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] anarchyuk:
well, I have checked it and the charger is a blackberry branded one and is only 500ma so im guessing I should buy an official hero charger one just to test
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Danltn:
500mA out is fine. Though stock charger is 1A for 230V 50hz AC (aka, my charger).

Are you sure the phone is using more than 2.5W? That would drain the stock battery from full to empty in under 2 hours. Does sound similar to previous experience I've had with the GPS unfortunately.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] anarchyuk:
This is only with google navigation, when I use navigon the phone on that exact same journey is fully charged by the end!! Its like my HTC ameo was with tom tom..
[Hero, G2 Touch General] wywywywy:
Because Google Nav uses a lot of data connectivity as well, compared to other offline Sat Nav solutions.

0.5a is likely not enough. But you don't need an official one either - just get an unbranded one from and make sure it is at least 1a.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] anarchyuk:
cheers lad,

I have ordered one online and I will test next week.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Piercy0812:
my battery lasts less than 3 hours with gps on, i got around 120-130 miles out of it before its gone (althought that was with copilot) i reckon maps will be the same.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] anarchyuk:
What amp is your car charger?
[Nexus One General] mets3214:
On the nexus one there is about 500 mb of ram. Whenever I put my phone on and I kill all my tasks, I only have 120 mb. This is not the biggest problem because after about 30 minutes of using the phone, no matter if I kill all the apps, the ram goes to 70mb - 79mb.
[Nexus One General] cymru:
Android 2.2 should fix this.

Or you can use a custom ROM such as cyanogen, with which i have over 230MB free RAM after closing apps
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
There are already a million and now one threads on this subject, search and you shall find all you could ever care to know about the subject.
[Nexus One General] x986123:
You should be using the RAM, not freeing it. The only way you lose battery is if the Application/Widget is downloading or using the CPU/GPU. On your PC, do you go to task manager and kill apps every time?
[Nexus One General] evilkorn:
I know it's a hard habit to kick coming from a G1 where it seemed necessary. But on a Nexus, you really don't need to. The only times I have to use it are when an application hangs.
[Nexus One General] PrawnPoBoy:
What the **** is up with everyone not wanting the memory in their phones/computers to be used? That is what it's for! If its not being used it is going to waste.

If you guys are using task managers you have failed.
[Nexus One General] cymru:
lol chillout!

People are obviously fine with it and welcome not to moan on the internet to people about not being able to use it.

Install a custom ROM if you want to dry your tears about not being able to use the extra RAM.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Killing apps is 100% unnecessary on the Nexus One.

It actually wastes MORE power to kill apps and have them restart all the time, than it does to just leave them alone.

For the next week, uninstall all your task killer apps.

Then tell us how it went.
[Nexus One General] diversificationied:
Ram goblins got to your ram, oh noes!
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
I'll answer his question. currently the nexus one only has half of the 512mb of RAM freed up, so you only have 256 mb right now. the next update is freeing up the other half.
[Nexus One General] PrawnPoBoy:
Sorry, you're right we didn't really directly answer his question I guess. But the point is, people shouldn't be looking at the free memory measurements anymore. Anything that isn't being used by applications will be used by the operating system for caching and other such things (this is a good thing). As soon as another applications starts up and needs that space, the kernel will give it up. Free memory doesn't use less power than memory that is in use by a sleeping process.

While you are correct that not all of the current memory of the device is addressable with the current kernel, when this limitation is removed in the next update (assuming it will be) it still wont solve the OP's problem. All it is going to mean is that even more memory will be taken up as cache space and buffers by the kernel and applications will be closed down even later so you'll still see a pretty small amount of "free" memory. If close to half of the RAM is going completely unused, then that's a lost opportunity by the kernel to cache or prefetch something.

Don't use task managers. They aren't needed and provide nothing. All they do is give fodder to the Steve Jobs' of the world that claim you need to manually micro manage memory on android devices as evidence by the number of people that use them.
[Nexus One General] MomijiTMO:
Nerd rage much?

:p
[Nexus One General] DMaverick50:
So just to clarify, apps don't really "run" in the background, they are just more readily available if they have ram dedicated to them? I'd rather not use a task manager but if it saves any of this pathetic battery I would sacrifice some performance...
[Nexus One General] SBS_:
The only thing task managers do is kill your battery. If you find that your phone is sluggish , doesn't respond well etc, uninstall some bad apps. Some apps aren't coded very well and remain active all the time killing your battery. Having an app checking all the time if another app is killing your battery is also killing your battery.

Bottom line: Don't use a task killer unless you find it absolutely neccesary to keep your phone running at decent speed.
[Nexus One General] diversificationied:
Look at the link in my signature, it'll explain how the android system manages programs.