yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Desire General] foner78:
I've just been looking at consumer advice online, I thought it would be interesting to make the whole situation a bit clearer. I'll explain my findings but of course this is my interpretation of the advice, I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice etc. :rolleyes:

I think the important thing here is that the guarantee/warranty is actually separate to your statutory rights. The statutory rights are part of your agreement with the retailer. A warranty is actually an ADDITIONAL agreement which may be offered by the retailer and/or by the manufacturer. This is why the warranty states that it "does not affect your statutory rights"... because it is not part of them. The warranty being quoted here is obviously with the manufacturer... it was them that printed it and put it in the box, it has their name and contact information on it. Of course you may also have a warranty with your retailer, which I believe is the case when you buy a phone on contract from the networks.

So the confusion about what your rights are here and who has to honour them seems to be a confusion between the statutory rights and a warranty.

Regarding statutory rights, the retailer must replace or refund within the first 6 months if you return an item with a fault that is not related to wear and tear. In this period they must prove that the fault was caused by wear. You have the right to return to the retailer for up to 6 years after the purchase but after that 6 months you may only get partial value based on the amount of "use" you have had of a product, and after that first 6 month it is up to the consumer to prove that the fault is due to a defect and not wear.

My sources are http://www.adviceguide.org.uk, which is provided by Citizens Advice, an article I found on http://www.thisismoney.co.uk, and http://www.whatconsumer.co.uk

FWIW, rhedgehog it looks like you're right, I could have pushed the retailer for a replacement or refund because I'd have the device less than 6 months. Wish I'd known that at the time! :rolleyes:

And abc27, that statement is your warranty with HTC, not your agreement with your retailer :)
[Desire General] abc27:
I dunno who got liability in to all of this but regardless of that the only thing my retailer will do is deal with HTC on my behalf so ergo the statement still stands.
[Desire General] langers1:
So to summarise from what I understand what everyone seems to be saying:

If you change the ROM it may effect the hardware on the phone so it will invalidate your warranty, however it is up to HTC/Provider to prove it in the first 6 months of owning the phone, after that its up to you to prove it.

However the way I am thinking, if you flash HTC's generic ROM on it then that shouldn't effect the warranty as how can they prove their own ROM damaged the device?
[Desire General] MacCarron:
Pretty much self explanatory imho, rooting has nothing to do with hardware, hence THEORETICALLY warranty is not voided.
[Desire General] abc27:
That's what i've been trying to get across throughout the entire thread.

Rooting as an action doesn't void the warranty. They have to prove that rooting the phone caused a defect in the hardware. For example if the MicroUSB port came loose they would have to prove that it was the fault of rooting the phone for the warranty to be void.

So technically, it can be ascertained that rooting the phone doesn't void the warranty but if the phone develops a hardware fault as a result of the rooting then the warranty becomes void.
[Desire General] :
clause 7, section c)the defect was caused by use other than in accordance with the user manual, rough handling, exposure to moisture, dampness or extreme thermal or environmental conditions or a rapid change in

such conditions, corrosion, oxidation, unauthorized modifications or connections, unauthorized opening or repair, repair by use of unauthorized spare parts, accidents, forces of nature, or other actions beyond the reasonable control of HTC (including but not limited to deficiencies in consumable parts) unless the defect was caused directly by defects in materials or workmanship

The Unauthorised modification is what they will use to invalidate teh warranty.

Did they put protections in place to stop you changing the ROM?

Yes

Did you purposefully circumvent these locks to modfy the device?

Yes

That's the argument they will use. whether you agree with it or not, that's what they'll tell you and that's what they'll stick to.

the discussion is unfortunately pointless as this gets discussed every single time a new device commes out and it always ends up with everyone eventually agreeiong that HTC will not honour the warranty when a device has been riooted or hard spl'ed or whatever.

Yes you get some people ar lucky and it is not noticed so their device is repaired, but they are the exception to the rule.
[Desire General] abc27:
You still don't get it though. The Nexus One's warranty statement says that the Act of rooting itself will make the warranty void. The HTC Desire's warranty statement says that the warranty will be void only if the defect is caused by rooting e.t.c.

"the defect was caused by use other than in accordance with the user manual, rough handling, exposure to moisture, dampness or extreme thermal or environmental conditions or a rapid change in

such conditions, corrosion, oxidation, unauthorized modifications or"

Note the words

caused by,

. It does not say that any "Unauthorized modification" (Which read in context sounds to be hardware modification rather than software) will void the warranty.
[Desire General] jonmall1441:
I'm just wondering if anyone has actually asked htc about this. I mean that's the only way to be sure.

Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Desire General] wnpaul:
Folks, that depends where you are. In the EU, if you are a consumer (as opposed to a business) you always have an implied warranty for two years, to be honored by the seller; an express warranty for a longer period can be either granted by the seller or by the manufacturer; in the latter case the seller can still act as agent for the manufacturer. And even in the different EU countries there are some differences allowed by the relevant EU directive.

So "I used to work in retail, it's 90 days" only makes sense if you worked in retail in the same country the other guy is talking about.
[Desire General] :
they have been asked repeatedly. they always say the same thing.

Rooting will invalidate your warranty.

people will argue it all they want, but HTC will still tell you the same thing. if you want to argue it out with HTC, you go ahead, but you won't get anywhere.
[Desire General] abc27:
Two words...

PROVE IT.

Find me one clause in the warranty statement that says that the action of rooting will invalidate the warranty.

You don't even need to debate it. What matters is the warranty statement, not what HTC have done in the past or what you may think they will do.
[Desire General] haggisuk99:
Something you are forgetting here is that all hardware components of a phone run on software. It is called firmware because it is not usually modified. When u reflash a phone you change the software components of the hardware. Thus it negates the warranty. Hence why rooting etc void warrantrys because technically you are making changes to the hardware or how it will operate. This you could equate to the early days of overclocking, if you cooked the CPU then the warrantry was void. Sometimes you got lucky and it was replaced. If you root or flash a cooked Rom u effectively change hardware components which void warrantry as stated time and time again. If they went covered by the law then the warrantrys would have been changed long ago by HTC
[Desire General] soupbones:
I think common sense should be used here. I mean, if you did take a rooted phone back under warranty and they refused to fix it, and you took it all the way to court or what ever governing body handles these things in your country, I would say your case would be down the drain.

By the way, I'm in Australia, and I asked this question about the branded HTC desire I bought. I was told removing the pre installed software would void the warranty. This software by the way is set into the root and can' be removed normally without rooting your phone.
[Desire General] psychache:
I know this is an old thread (and I'm a noob) but in case anyone was still interested I did actually ask HTC what their policy is on rooting. This was their response:

"Of course the Desire is your phone. If you would like to root the phone or install 3rd party software to it, you are more than welcome too. It's just that with any 3rd party software, HTC did not create it so we do not have information on how it works therefore, we can not support it. As far as voiding any warranties, I do not have that information. You may contact our Warranty Deparment at 1-800-229-1235 (8:30 AM - 5 PM EST M-F). They will be able to verify that information with you. HTC has repaired some phones that had the incorrect ROM on them. There may have been a fee for this, I am not certain."
[Desire General] a_punker:
kudos for actually asking and thanks for posting it here:).... likes!
[Desire General] a_punker:
European warranty. summary: HTC dont guarantee the software. HTC wont guarantee something that you have messed up yourself.

i get the impression after reading this that if you've modified the software but the camera breaks, they'll still repair it; but if you modify the kernel and it no longer boots... its your lookout, buddy.

3. Throughout the Warranty Period HTC or its authorized agent will,

at their discretion, without charge and subject to Clause 7 repair or

replace a defective Product. Repair or replacement may involve the

use of functionally equivalent reconditioned unit. HTC will return

the repaired Product or replaced with another functional equivalent

Product to the Customer in good working condition. All replaced

faulty parts or components will become the property of HTC.

4. This Limited Warranty applies only to the hardware components

of the Product as originally supplied and does not apply to any

software or other equipment.

Clause 7

7. THIS LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF THE DEFECT WAS

CAUSED THROUGH ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

a) the Product serial number, the accessory date code the

IMEI number, water indicator or the warranty seal has been

removed, erased, defaced, altered or is illegible; or

b) deterioration of the Product due to normal wear and tear; or

c) use other than in accordance with the user manual, rough

handling, exposure to moisture, dampness or extreme thermal

or environmental conditions or a rapid change in such

conditions, corrosion, oxidation, unauthorized modifications

or connections, unauthorized opening or repair, repair by use

of unauthorized spare parts, accidents, forces of nature, or

other actions beyond the reasonable control of HTC (including

but not limited to deficiencies in consumable parts) unless

the defect was caused directly by defects in materials or

workmanship. This Limited Warranty does not cover physical

damage to the surface of the Product including but not limited

to cracks or scratches on the LCD screen or camera lens; or

d) the defects caused by the fact that the battery has been

short-circuited or by the fact that the seals of the battery

enclosure or the cells are broken or show evidence of

tampering or by the fact that the battery has been used in

equipment other than those for which it has been specified;

or

e) the defect was caused by a defective function of the cellular

network or other system; or

f) the Product software needs to be upgraded due to changes in

cellular network parameters; or

g) the defect was caused by the fact that the Product was used

with or connected to an accessory not approved or provided

by HTC or used in other than its intended use and where it

can be shown by HTC that such defect is not the fault of the

Product itself.

8. Your Product may contain country specify elements, including

software, If the Product has been re-exported from its original

destination country to another country, the Product may contain

country specific elements that are not considered to be a defect

under this Limited Warranty.
[Desire General] faddys123:
i got a black screen on my desire but the touch is still working, but i am rooted, will it affect anything??
[Desire General] fbcyborg:
The section h) no longer appears on the warranty sheets. Actually my HTC Desire S is still covered by the warranty, even if I S-Offed and rooted my device.

LINK

That's why it is not strange if some device is already S-Offed.
[Desire General] eoinzy:
I've put my Desire in today to be repaired.

Its rooted, CM7, S-OFF but the problem is that the screen just died, so its a hardware, not a software issue.

The guy in the shop said that they'll be sending it off to their engineers who will try fix it, but if they can't, they'll then send it off to HTC.

Either way, I'll wait and see what they say and report back. Obviously they'll need to fix the screen before they see that its rooted/ROM'd so I'm hoping the engineers will be too lazy to undo all their work so will just sign off on it and send it back to me!! :D

EDIT: Can anyone tell me if you usually get your own phone back, or do they send you back a refurb? Its just I'd be curious about which screen (SLCD/AMOLED) I'll get back.
[Desire General] fbcyborg:
Good luck! :)
[Desire General] eoinzy:
From the horses mouth:

http://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150414438023084
[Desire General] fbcyborg:
This is not a good thing:

The answer doesn't convince me! It's not true that an unlocked bootloader will void our warranty. There are precise clauses for the warranty validity and there is no clause saying that it is not valid anymore if the bootloader is unlocked. What are they trying to demonstrate or say?
[Desire General] mimirom:
Hmm, this is an interesting statement, given that I bought my Desire S one week ago, with the bootloader already unlocked...
[Desire General] fbcyborg:
They always have to try to f..k people someway...
[Desire General] andQlimax:
in the htc bootloader unlock page http://htcdev.com/bootloader/ , at the end of the page:

"We strongly suggest that you do not unlock the bootloader unless you are confident that you understand the risks involved. This is a technical procedure and the side effects could possibly necessitate repairs to your device not covered under warranty."

so, even if u unlock the bootloader with their tool, u loose warranty..thats htc..closed mind company
[Desire General] fbcyborg:
The website reports what you indicated, but the warranty sheet doesn't. For me it is the warranty sheet inside the Desire S box the one to be considered as valid.
[Desire General] eoinzy:
I think you have the wrong part in bold.

It should be:

So in other words, if you brick your phone, then its not covered under warranty. If the hardware fails, you ARE covered, even if you unlocked the bootloader.

Like they said in reply to my facebook post, each warranty repair will be decided on a case by case basis. If they feel the issue is unrelated to the custom ROM, then they'll fix it.

Also, I sent my phone away to my retailer without the SIM or SD Card. Because I have SD_EXT on my SD Card, the phone wont boot without the SD Card inserted.

I'm hoping they fix the screen, then just leave the software as it is, although its not that mich effort to re-root and flash a new ROM. My girlfriend will be pissed all her Angry Birds saves will be gone though!! :p
[Desire General] fbcyborg:
OK, this sounds me correct now. Actually, if a display is faulty, for sure, it is not due to a ROM or hboot update.

As a matter of fact, every company decides about the warranty validity once the device (or whatever it is) is in their hands. So we have to trust in their honesty or nothing. There is no alternate choice. It is also true that they can invent whatever they want in order to make the warranty void if they want it.
[Desire General] scooby359:
I can't comment on the legal side, that's all above my head, but I can comment from experience.

My Desire running CM7, being rooted with s-off, was over heating and restarting itself. When I returned it to Vodafone, they sent it for repair and took it happily (without me mentioning the modifications..)

It came back flashed, though with the same fault, so I returned it, with the same result. On the third return, after asking the shop assistant to put a note on that it was a hardware fault, not software, I was sent a refurb handset.. looks good as new though and no fault.

So not sure whether I'd broken the warranty or not, but Vodafone had no problems with accepting it and making good the fault. Can't say whether this is because I was lucky, or the shop staff were so helpful, or if Vodafone genuinely weren't bothered that it was modified, but it shows you won't necessarily face a brick wall should you go back for help with a rooted phone
[Desire General] eoinzy:
I got my phone back today from the shop I put it in.

They fixed the screen no problems, but put the stock android 2.2 on it.

I'm happy anyway.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] timodc:
eyy!

i know you can switch of HTC-sense by going to 'HOME' in the options menu,

but isnt it possible doing this with a switch app?

cause i want my SPB-Gprs-monitor home tab back,

to see the real-time gprs usage,

but just for that, after this i want to easily switch on HTC-sense,

thanks,

Timo
[General Topics] RedRamage:
So, those are my choices. I'm on Verizon and those are my options. Android is NOT an option for me.

So... All three have various advantages that I can see, and I'm torn on what the best route to go is.

Omnia has a wonderful screen (Bigger, and OLED), faster processor, FM radio, 8 GB internal storage besides the card, and a flash for the camera. But I worry about support for it. There isn't a www.samsung-developers.com after all! :) Many reviews say the UI is clunky at best and that the device seems sluggish plus it only has 208 RAM.

Imagio has more RAM, the radio, better built in UI. But there is no flash for the camera. I worry that I'll find the device nice, but nothing special about it... which I guess if it works as advertised I don't necessarily need special.

TPro2 has same RAM as Imagio, World Phone capabilities, the same UI as Imagio, and one of best keyboards a phone has ever had, at least according to all the reviews I've read. But it doesn't have flash for the Camera, and it doesn't hav ea radio.

Frankly, I'm just really really torn... any opinions?
[General Topics] Purple Drama Llama:
Touch pro 2 Defenitly. The Omnia II, I wouldn't even consider. The Imagio is nice, but why not get all the functionality of a phone by getting a keyboard, and better more a keyboard that tilts. The keyboard is by far the best i've used and the tilting comes in handy while watching movies. The speaker quality is excellent and the device is not that thick at all. Maybe a smidge heavier than most but not at all annoying. This is by far the best device I've had! I suggest the touch pro 2.
[General Topics] orb3000:
+1 for Rhodium!!

The only one with a hardware keyboard, in fact the best with kb!

By far:cool:

Have a look here:

http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1751&id2=1939&id3=1784
[General Topics] RedRamage:
What about Sense UI? The Imagio seems to have a new version. Is it possible to upgrade the TPro to the same UI level?
[General Topics] orb3000:
Yes it´s possible always with one of our great Chefs cooked ROM´s

:)
[HD2 General] Xemeo:
For the life of me, I cannot find files that I drop onto my HD2 with the file explorer...this means I cannot get ANYTHING else working on my phone!

What I see on my PC is very different from what I see on the HD2's file explorer. What can I do to fix this, or atleast where can I drop files that I CAN find them on the HD2?

Sorry, running late to work and frustrated.
[HD2 General] toreone:
FILES

When you copy the files using the file explorer or whatever you are using are you making folder then placing the files into appropriate folders or are you just throwing them in there randomly. I had a similar problem to this but once I created a folder it seem to work.. hope this helps:confused:
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] someonenewhere:
ever since the last two newest updates...I've noticed a big battery life issue ..

any of you having the same issue with it?
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] Roman G:
Already a thread discussing this!

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=667546&highlight=autokiller
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] someonenewhere:
Thanks! ...
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Joe333x:
I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a list of what Android devices that are able to be rooted. If and when I decide to upgrade my phone I want to get something that can be rooted. Have any of the new devices been rooted yet?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] joe.kerwin:
I'm pretty sure theres ways with all of the "worthwhile" devices to get (moto droid, nexus, etc) However with all the new devices emerging I doubt you'll be upgrading to anything that is currently available now, my best advice would be stick with HTC, they always figure something out around here.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] tgm4883:
I've been jumping around between different 2.1 ROMs and every time I have to wipe and upgrade. Is there something I can use that will either save and reinstall all of my apps? I want to still get updates from the android market. The apps I want to keep are all on the market, it's just a pain to reinstall all of these apps each time.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] koricua74:
Titanium Backup, if you get the donate version it installs all of your backed up apps automatically after you launch the batch file.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] SupahDave:
+1 on Titanium Backup. It's worth buying the donate version for the extra features.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] tatonka_hero:
do they show up in the market as downloaded after being reinstalled, so you can get updates?
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] Bielinsk:
Yes they do show up as installed in the market.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] bob2300nx:
Yes they do....I am glad I finally get to give Tatonka advice (you are always the one giving advice on androidforums).

I just got done installing 98 apps with titanium backup (using a2sd). Worked perfectly maybe took 5-10mins but with the donate version you dont have to confirm each app (like you would in the market) it bypasses that and just does all the work for you. And everything is in the market. I am not sure about the free version but titanium also has a feature called market doctor that will scan all of your installed apps and make sure they are all in the market (which normally they are, I think it is a just in case feature)
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] tatonka_hero:
does that only work with the paid version? Because when I used TB free, they didn't show up in the market as downloaded/installed (at least, I don't think they did lol). I've been using Astro more often than not the past few times
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] koricua74:
It did for me just give it a bit to update, but I donated $3.99 the next day because of the auto install feature. Pressing OK to confirm each install sucks (over 45 apps)