yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
LOL. You are absolutely right! IT department would never allow any jailbreaking. Not sure about rooting.

It is possible that business users have very little say in what their phone must be able to do, other than being able to fullfill full exchange support, remote wipe, and so on. They may not be bothered with the ability to customize, have fancy themes, etc. Therefore, it is possible that a non-JB phone will meet their requirements, but it may be best served by another thread.

I wonder however, what would be the IT department's policy if his boss has a jailbroken phone? Would the IT say no to the boss?

Thanks for pointing this out.
[General Topics] vangrieg:
This is where I don't get it. Apple has made the lockdown for everything in one swipe. Therefore if you jailbreak it you open the floodgate to piracy. They could do something very different, i.e. restrict features and lock content by different mechanisms. Anyway, I digress.

This is one thing where I wholeheartedly agree with Microsoft's recent stance on this. Business users are just users, they just have specific needs in addition to what everyone else wants. Heck, I myself am a business user. I want rich multimedia capabilities, and the browser and sometimes even casual games (although I don't care much for this), and I want to use my phone as an mp3 player while on a plane or something, and I use social networks (LinkedIn mostly), and I want to upload a picture to share some nice view when I'm on a business trip, and I want my phone to be a robust email machine, and I want to view office files while going to a client meeting, etc. etc. Being a "business user" doesn't make me some mythical beast that only cares about typing on a hardware keyboard 24/7. I need all of that, in one device.

Now, as regards IT departments, they increasingly don't care. Apart from cases where you need some specific software (which isn't all that ubiquitous), or when your company buys the phone for you, their major consideration is not supporting a dozen platforms. As long as the user takes care of his phone himself and doesn't call them every 15 minutes they are fine. Blackberries are a special case because they come with cheap email plans with worldwide roaming, some paranoid encryption, but that's about it. There's absolutely nothing BBs do that a regular smartphone can't. It's mostly the pricing that sets them apart - smartphones cost a lot and come with costly plans. I told my IT department that they can go take a walk and simply pay for my phone and the plan myself. A few years ago a corporate phone was almost a perk, now it's more of a hassle. And that defines the jailbreaking thing. As long as it's my phone no IT department will have a say on whether I jailbreak it or not.

So anyway - would you care to answer my questions about syncing Exchange Tasks and the file transfer issues on a jailbroken iPhone? Can I save a ppt I receive in an email and later view it?
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Two lines on one phone for business users

From the user's viewpoint, what you said will alway hold true. However, from the business owner's viewpoint, they may not wish that to happen. The key reason is the impact on productivity. I was a business owner before so I know. I would rather give my employee a phone that can only do those things that I want them to do. No facebook. No games, No music player. No videos and porn watching. No web surfing, etc.

So, like you said, the previledge of having a coporate phone becomes a burden. That's probably why so many people I know are having two phones.

One given to them by the company, and another one their own. And some of them have been asking if iPhone can accomodate TWO simcards at the same time or two numbers at the same time without using more than one sim.

Fortunately the answer is yes. I'll try to retrieve this information and post back later. I'd like to know if there is such a possibility with Android. I was under the impression that google has the ability to channel calls to a few numbers (e.g., home number, office number, own mobile number) into the same handset, but don't know the details. I suspect google is ahead in this area. Could someone with this experience help out?
[General Topics] vangrieg:
I was a business owner a couple of times in my life and I don't care what my employees do as far as the job's done - they can pick their noses, play games or sit on a beach in Hawaii all year round. Limiting their phones doesn't solve the productivity issue either because they can have two phones (or a phone and a PSP or whatever). And, more importantly, there's a huge number of businesses that don't limit their employees' choice of phones.

So I'd suggest that we don't focus on corporate purchases and all that, and instead talk about cases when the end user can choose their phone.

As regards multiple SIM cards, any phone can have it - there are inexpensive "multi-SIM" solutions for that (they were used initially with the iPhone when it was sold only on AT&T and there was no SIM unlock available). They are somewhat clumsy in that you can only have one active line and will have to set up forwarding for the currently inactive one. If you want both active at the same time you'll need two GSM modules in your phone.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
What you've described is commonly seen but may not be a good solution. iPhone offers better solution. Read this. I have not tried it myself though.

http://mashable.com/2010/03/25/line2-iphone-app/
[General Topics] vangrieg:
That's VoIP stuff.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Yes, and that's to save company money. But it uses your company and your personal phone number. Best of everything. Watch the video for explaination. Many businesses these days use Voip anyway to reduce communication cost. Actually I'm also using voip to reduce my cell call minutes.
[General Topics] vangrieg:
Well, VoIP won't save me money here, and it's not a substitute for normal calling anyway. I don't want to make calls over WiFi, data traffic is costly, especially when roaming, call quality isn't always great, etc. And in any case, if you want to rely on a service there are several that can do this kind of call routing, regardless of iPhone, so it's getting somewhat offtopic.

Do you have comments about my questions?
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Sorry I missed the question.

There are many third party task applications which can be synced to outlook. Edit: and exchange too.

Yes you can save ppt file and view it later even after the mail itself I'd deleted. This requires no jailbreak in OS 4.0. Same goes for excel, PDF files. You can tell iPhone which program to use in order to open the file. IFile itself will open all file type after the attachments are saved. I have lots if such ppt files from my friends too which I keep permanently.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
You didn't watch the video yet right? Using voip is an option not a must. Watch the video at around 1:04. You could use cellular for your line 2 if 3g signal is bad and wifi isn't available or if quality isn't good enough.

"Line2 also supports easy conference calling for up to 20 participants, and all calls including conference calls can be placed over regular voice, Wi-Fi, or 3G VOIP"

Please don't ask me how it works and how one sim card allows two numbers to simultaneously works.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/technology/personaltech/25pogue.html

iPhone could be the best business phone with this application you think? It even let you have 1800 numbers!

Is there anything like this for Android phones?
[General Topics] JAguirre1231:
Google Voice?
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Yes. Google voice. Except line 2 is far better than google voice in that there's option to use not only voip but also regular cellular signal for the business number. This deals with the voice quality problem when wifi and 3G strength is weak and when voip call sound quality is bad.

Of course google voice is also available from the cydia store after apple had unreasonably rejected it's submission.

Could you search for line 2 application from toktumi in the Android market place to find out if they've got a version for Android phone?
[General Topics] Tabbe:
so what to do when a iphone got lock out from 3.1.3 upgrade? what about in future 4.0, is it gonna support all iphone version? thats a very big ? at this moment.

while android you dun have to worry on this.

actually the whole idea is out-from-box-ready

i dont have to unlock to do simple stuff that is obvious for a phone with high capacity memory. drag and move files into your storage, its more like you controlling your phone what to store instead of itune contents only until the jailbreak part.

share with me the free MP3 download & itune part, PM me and i will try as i have it now.

as you can save from youtube any clip & save mp3 from china server and bluetooth the files out on android.
[General Topics] JAguirre1231:
No, we don't have that.

Abd as to your jailbreaking/rooting differences. It depends on what phone we want to root ;)

Nexus: Plug into your computer and type "fatsboot oem unlock" done

G1: Install application on phone, press big button, done
[General Topics] vangrieg:
Outlook? Yes, I know that, the question is about Exchange Direct Push. That's an important distinction.

OK, fine, that's what I wanted to know, thanks.

Well, there are services that do it. Basically you set up call forwarding to their number and they deal with everything. Either I'm missing something or this is just a weird hype over nothing, like Skype (i.e. nothing really new, just a peculiar proprietary solution for something that already exists, but people suddenly go excited about it because there's a cool looking app or something). That's possible to do right now even with a dumbphone (although how exactly you do it would be country specific).

Like I said earlier, I don't really care too much about it as I have just one phone. If I had two SIM cards, I'd just reroute all calls from one number to the other one, no biggie. I know that for some reason some people can't figure this one out so it could be a great solution for them, yes.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
I don't know the answer to syncing tasks to exchange yet. I'll let you know when I know the answer. Edit: yes you can also sync tasks and notes to exchange.

Call forwarding will not allow you to make call with two numbers I believe. It won't tell you if you're getting a personal or business call. It won't know how to forward the business call to voice mail after office hour. It doesn't give you two distinct sets if contacts. So I think serious business people such as a propprietor wanting the business phone functions that's really professionally sounding to customers won't find call forwarding trick acceptable. That's probably why they still carry two phones. Also, to contain cost of cell minutes is a big reason for needing solution like this. I think this is one serious business phone requirement for many business people.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Vangrieg,

I forgot to mention to you that in order to save files such as power point and spreadsheet onto the phone, you must jailbreak and install a cydia application called AttachmentSaver. With this installed then when you click on the attachment, it will give you the option to just view it or to save to disk. Without this Cydia application, it will bring you to view screen directly. Since you've mentioned this to be your high priority requirement I thought I should give this extra information to give you assurance that it can in fact be done. This program may no longer be necessary in OS 4.0.

I assume that Android can save all attachments to phone out if the box? Am I right?
[General Topics] OKK77:
I doubt you can keep track of all the nitty gritty details in the features. The changes are constantly coming out and with the ability to add a layer like Sense UI or Motoblur on top of core Android, you will go crazy.

Initiative is interesting but it will be a waste of time. :o
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Are you saying that Android is still evolving and that there are variations across different Android handset, therefore it us hard to pin down the details?

So even if someone says that inwirks in a certain way, the information may only apply to his model and not another Android phone?

I thought that by now Android development is more or less over? Not true? We're obviously only trying to compare the latest Android against the latest iPhone firmware here, ignoring the limitation of the older Android OS.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Backup and restore

iPhone:

- This is done though iTune

- When a device is connected, by default, before syncing, it alway do a backup. Each backup is dated, so that it is posible to recover using any of the previous backup.

- Backup takes a while, but you could interrupt the backup and proceeding to syncing right away.

- Restore will restore the settings and data.

- Syncing will repopulate the phone with the music, video, applications, and photos, therefore these items are not backup.

- While syncing with the PC is easy, syncing to server is problematic according to users who have used it.

Android: (input needed)

How is this done? How to ensure that settings, data, configurations, and programs are recoverable after a firmware reset, restore, or hard reset? Is there a way to back up everything to PC so that even if the phone is stolen, all programs and data could be recovered like in iPhone?
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Performing screen capture

IPhone:

Short press the home button and power button at the same time. It will capture screen or even video in motion.

Android:

how is this done? Do you need to start a program or is there a hardware sequence? If a program had to be started can it capture video in play and lock screen picture?
[General Topics] TheReverend210:
I've only had my HTC Hero about a week, and been a member of this forum for as long, but I feel I can input here.

With regards to backup, as far as I can tell a full system backup is mainly done through Nandroid, which is part of a custom recovery image. However, to get a custom recovery image on your Android phone varies between models.

As has been stated, the nexus one simply requires a command typed in when the phone is attached to a computer, but HTC hate people messing with their firmware and newer firmware is seriously restricted. In order to put a custom recovery image on my Hero I had to create a goldcard (a hit-and-miss process in itself) and downgrade the ROM shipped with my phone to a version which still had a bug in the kernel to allow access to the bootloader.

However, after that it is simply a one-click app off the market to install a custom recovery image, then just hold down the home key when booting and just navigate around the meun's.

There is a veritible plethora of apps available for download to back up every aspect of your phone (I'm not actually sure if google sync can do it by default (it does contacts, not sure about SMS)), which all back up the SD card, and then you can simply copy it over to your computer.

As for screenshots, AFAIK, that requires root and an app off the market.

Also, I feel an appropriate anecdote to Android is the linux it is based on. Whilst we have many different distributions of Linux (of which Debian is the best :P), we also have many flavours of Android.

There is the vanilla android, with many Eclair ROM's floating about, then there are ROM's that include HTC sense, then I've seen the Sony Ericsson Xperia has it's own UI built over the top of Android.

Basically the core system is the same (linux kernel), but there are so many factory UI's and custom ROM's it boggles the mind!

Although the disadvantage of that is a lot of factory UI's are quite a way behind normal Android development. My Hero is still running 1.5, the Xperia is on 1.6, and there have been 2 updates for Android 2.1 already, and the next development fork already has a codename set down, so I imagine development will start relatively soon!
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Welcome Reverend to this forum!

Everthing has a new begining. You're a week more experienced than I am in Android so I'm sure you have already got lots of things that I can learn from. Please keep coming back here to post new things that you find out as your go along.

Can I ask which version of Android are you running on your Hero?

Nandroid? Okay. Who is the vendor of this software? Does it work on just about every Android handset? Or it is a parameter in the program that allows it to do backup for all the Android phones out there? If you have used this already, can you briefly describe how it works? This image can be written back to a new handset that replaces the lost/damage/stolen one as long as it is the same model? Is there anything that allows an image to be taken, and restored to a NEW handset (e.g., when you want to upgrade from Hero to say the Incredible?). Just for everyone's info, backup make of iPhone can be restored into iPod, iPad, and iPhone of a newer model, all without any operational difference in the procedure. Is there such a tool in Android to allow phone change for example?

I thought that was for rooting rather than for performing backup and restore? Which post# stated that again?

Ah, I'm getting a bit of it now. You mean in order to backup and restore, you must root the phone? Is that what the goldcard is for - rooting? Only after rooting can you copy and install the recovery image? Does the procedure recover not just the firmware but also programs, data, and settings? What about stuffs like musics, videos, picture on the phone. They can re-installed via the recovery image too? Or that's a different program?

The storage card might not have space though. What about people who have so much music, videos, and pictures on the storage card that there don't have space left? Would this method not fall flat?

Really? You mean without rooting there is no capability to take screenshot? Why would installation of such utility requires rooting I wonder.

In Android, is it possible to assign program such as a screenshot program to a hardware button to make screenshot a more efficient procedure?
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Excellent link and article. Thank you!

The article talked about the impact on battery life between the two design. I think it had not mentioned another area that Steve Jobs had great concern in - performance. Steve Jobs mentioned that the way Apple had designed multitasking was intended to deal with the performance issue as well.

Please feel free to go back to all the unsanswered questions raised so far and help out in the other aspects as well if you could. Helps are much appreciated. Could you also tell us which Android phone and OS version you're using? I wonder if answers to those questions would differ from handset to handset.
[General Topics] JAguirre1231:
Nandroid is a feature of the custom recovery images. It REQUIRES root (because you need root to put on a custom recovery image), but it does a COMPLETE backup of your phone (Data, apps, thse 3 files you added in 3 weeks ago to the system partition).

As for transferring it, the Market will remember what apps you had installed (but not install them), your contacts, calendar, emails and that's it (You have to redo all the settings and stuff).

Yes, that was for rooting. http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=6220409&postcount=41

Most of this is answered above, but as for the media and such, that's why we have sdcards ;)

It's not like you can't copy some stuff from the sdcard and put it on later. I have never run out of space on my sdcard, but yes, this could be considered an oversight.

As said, Linux is basically a bunch of files that control everything, which is why you would need root. There is ddms (part of the Android SDK) but I'm not sure if it does it without root.

Most screenshot apps will run in the background, and allow you to press the camera button, yell at t.he phone, or shake it to take a screenshot
[General Topics] Tabbe:
no im from singapore, i access youtube and facebook easily, what you mention grooveshark is chargerable,let me try pandora later, android have standalone apps to support download from different server giving you direct access to mp3 free eng/chi songs you name it. not forgetting youtube which we download the videos.

after all we are holding on to MULTIMEDIA Phones.

plus android apps can be install separately from market, a standalone installation file in case its not in market

again, i have a iphone jailbreak too, just name the program and i will test them 1 by 1.
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
Tabbe,

Music Meow us the name of the Cydia program to search for and DL musics. I also recommend Dtune as one of the third party music players for playing them because the player within Music Meow is more limiting. To save YouTube music videos for example, if you want to modify the standard YouTube program to incorporate the download feature you can use youRtube. If you also use Atube and mxtube. There is also an Apple Sanctioned program in the app store for that but I forgot the name. There're also programs to directly download movies and play them without going through iTune. I don't personally use them (music and video download) because I'm not comfortable with the idea. If usually just get music video from YouTube as this is not illegal AFAIK. With iPhone I can play video music with the screen switched off or play in the background so it is as good as it can get anyway so there is no need to get the mp3. I can also mix audio and video in the playlist so no issue there.

Can you share with us if all these are also possible with Android?
[General Topics] dsymbol:
Cut/Copy/Paste

Steve,

I'm using the HTC Legend, Android 2.1 (Eclair) & this's my first Android experience & I believe my phone is not rooted. Therefore I cannot speak for the rooted Android crowd.

I'm still using the HD & Diamond 2 (WinMo 6.1 & 6.5 respectively) along with the Legend.

I'm not sure how intuitive & fast the iphone's Copy/Cut/Paste is, but for sure it's not even close comparing to what I can do on the WinMo (in the SMS I can select PART and/or WHOLE threaded conversation, copy & paste & send. However, this comparison is irrelevant with the topic of Android vs Iphone).
[General Topics] coolbho3000:
It is clear that your knowledge of Android is extremely limited, and thus you are in no such position to make such a "comparison."
[General Topics] eaglesteve:
My knowledge of Android being limited is an understatement. You could say I have zero knowledge. The only thing I know about Android is that I heard it is the best thing since slice bread and therefore I want to get to know all I can about it before I get one (HTC Supersonic, when the GSM version is available). Which is why I need guys like you to paint the picture on each areas. On my own, no comparison could be made. That's why I'm inviting people with Android expertise to contribute the part on Android. I will only get it after I've been thoroughly informed of what it can do - just like I thoroughly researched on iPhone before switching from winmo.

Would you help us out please?