yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Exactly but EU don't know this! They just think the OS is a POS and crashes all the time. Then they go out and buy an iPad.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It's kind of silly to state that multitasking matters for anyone apart from geek forum users. Sure, it may benefit anyone. No "real" person will base their purchase decision on it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Thanks! No wonder WM lagged behind.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Think again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Think again about what!?
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Did I buy a phone or a device on which I can install extra applications??
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I bought a phone which I can install extra applications on.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ilmar72:
Oh man,

Here I thought WM7 was going to be a better version of 6.1, 6.5

No its a whole new OS that is lacking things that their old OS's have.

And we wont be able to run our old programs? Thats the only reason I was even considering buying a WM7 phone.

Wow Im glad I just ordered a droid.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Have fun with your Droid. You won't regret it. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Then it crashes, leaks, freezes....
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
my neighbor got a droid.

It is OK....nothing to drool over.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
no

My HD2 did, but maybe it was my fault or custom ROMs. Nexus did not freeze yet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
I bought one too. I have a ton of apps on my device and it doesn't crash, I'm running apps that I know work and are programmed well and that's what matters. Any software on any device can cause problems if not written correctly. That's why companies are switching to managed code more so these problems don't exsist as much. The End Users don't know any different we are the only ones that do.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
CorrrectT.....
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
There's nothing wrong with managed code.

There's a lot wrong with restrictions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] flashpanda:
http://www.andrew-stockdale.co.uk/2010/04/09/multitasking-its-kind-of-complicated
[Windows Phone 7 General] burnblue:
^ That article is accurate.

Anyway, my .02

On Pandora: The confusion comes because we've heard different things from different guys at different times... but the most recent, official company line is that 3rd party apps can use Zune APIs to play music in the background, but there are no APIs (announced) that would allow Pandora to stream in the background from its own servers.

On the topic of 'real' people: It's true, when they walk into a store, if the phone works well and they like it, they buy it. The only way they'll have an opinion on how "true" the multitasking is, is if the blogs and people like us discuss it with them. I bet though that most people will use WP7 and not miss much.

On task managers: I hate them. I love the taskbar and window features on my desktop, but I hate task managers particularly what you find on the phone. I may be paranoid about memory use, but I wish I never ever had to manually kill an app. Remember how everybody complains that the close button on WM only minimizes instead of kills? They made it that way because we used to complain that the OS wasn't multitasking enough so they started minimizing instead of closing. Now we have to kill apps ourselves. I do appreciate having the switching feature as in iPhone 4, WebOS and Android, but I don't want apps in those lists unless I specifically chose to minimize them, or else the number gets overwhelming.

On competitiveness: Today, no actual iPhone multitasks, yet they've sold many millions. Even the iPad where it's worse, launched at high numbers. If Microsoft is given a chance to market well, they will succeed. The APIs for those special use cases will follow.

Basically, for their new OS Microsoft has picked a sustainable approach similar to iPhone's, but Apple just beat them to the scenario APIs. MS has other stuff to offer in the meantime... it's not the end of the world
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
That is incorrect-- at the moment, only certain Microsoft apps can run in the background in WP7.

Here is confirmation from Microsoft's Todd Brix that Pandora will not be able to run in the background in Windows Phone 7:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/windows-phone-7-series-multitasking-the-real-deal/
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Is that my article? he seems to be writing exactly what I keep writing here....just more composed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
I love my task manager. What I did was install AE button plus and mapped my task manager to the "long press" action of the windows button. Now if I ever need to kill a process, it is so freaking easy. see attachment.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
I don't think you really understand how memory allocation works.

If an operating system has a working memory allocation model, it doesn't matter how leaky applications are, all the operating system has to do is free the memory it allocated the process when the process closes, and the memory is back-in-business.

That's why you don't see leaks on modern Windows OSes.

Go ahead, write this C program:

int main () {

while (1) {

int * a=malloc(sizeof(int));

}

return 0;

}

That's a memory leaking loop if ever I saw one!

Let it run a while, and you'll notice it's taking up a good amount of memory (watch it in Task Manager), then kill it, and bam! all your memory's back.

Amazing, isn't it?

See here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] burnblue:
You said the same thing I said, so what do you mean I'm incorrect? Zune is a Microsoft app.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
You don't need to use a task manager on any mobile OS. They are designed to manage everything automatically.

In fact, you *shouldn't* even use one.

(though WM is a bit of an exception, cause the automatical mechanism just doesn't work that well)

The reason they made the X button minimize apps is because this is the way it should be, the OS manages the apps automatically.

On competitiveness: It depends on how you look at it. Just because it sells well doesn't mean it's better. WP7 is not competitive, in the sense that, others are superior operating systems.

That, of course, doesn't mean it won't sell, cause there's lots of other factors, like marketing, involved.

Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It's competitive when it sells well, simple as that. Whether you like it or not is a different matter which has nothing to do with the terms you're using.
[Windows Phone 7 General] domineus:
correct I was wondering when someone would mention this! Thank you!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] rwholden:
Actually i think it's very similar to the system that microsoft are implementing in WP7...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
No, it's better.

1) Apps on the iPhone don't freeze immediately, they can run in the background for 5 minutes.

2) Microsoft doesn't have those APIs for background streaming etc., which means, Pandora, Skype etc. can not work in the background.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Thank you. I quite well understand the concept.

Quite often the question is identifying the application which is causing the problem. It is even a bigger problem when the process in question is an integral OS process.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
I believed in this .... till I installed Need for Speed Undercover.

I was playing the game, and got an incoming phone call.

Phone just froze....
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
As I said, it doesn't work that well on Windows Mobile.

Works perfectly on Android, though, and I sure wouldn't want any other method of handling multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
That is good to know..will keep android on the radar when time comes for a new phone!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It's definitely worth keeping it on the radar. The biggest problem is filtering all the fanboy claims out. Cause if you listen to Android users on Windows forums, Android is something next to the second coming of Chist in importance and perfection. Thankfully, device and OS specific forums are better for getting this kind of info.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Ha ha... I know that feeling.

When somebody showers praises on anything, be it man, machine or religion, I will question it till I am satisfied on my own accord.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I don't find that surprising. Think about it.

Android users on Windows forums are usually former Windows users. They're happy that they ditched Windows, so no surprise that their comments about Android are positive.

The device specific forums, of course they contain posts about issues. But compare them, you'll also find a striking difference between the amount of "I hate my HD2" threads and "I hate my Desire" threads (which I haven't found one, yet) and the amount of issues people mention.

If you've never used Android, you can just compare paper charts. On paper, Android looks really similar to Windows Mobile. But the experience of using it is totally different.

Windows Mobile users think many features mean a complicated UI or multitasking means instability etc. - but if you use Android, you'll see that this is simply not the case.

Ironically, I just had a very quick look at the Desire forum, and what did I find? The following post really seems to be the general consensus among HD2 --> Desire switchers, and I can only confirm how true it is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
This part:

There was a rumor at the WP7 launch that the hubs (Zune, Pictures, etc.) might provide background functionality for third-party apps, but at MIX, that was confirmed to be incorrect-- WP7 provides no method at all for third-party apps to continue running or to do anything but be suspended ("dehydrated") when they leave the foreground.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Nobody says it's surprising. Win users do it on Mac forums, Mac users do it on Win forums, etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I have yet to find a WM user who does it on an Android forum, after having used Android...

Android is WM done right. Looks just like WM on paper, but works sooo much better in reality. Android delivered on Windows Mobile 7's promise. I would have preferred that coming from Microsoft, instead of Google, because I'm a big fan of Microsoft. But the reality is, Microsoft didn't do it. There's no Windows Mobile 7, but Android is almost exactly what Windows Mobile 7 should have been. Same power, same possibilities, but it just works.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Even if it were absolute truth, there still would have to be a lot more to it to make a reasonable person go preaching, and that's the major problem with seeing Android fans here as credible sources (apart from the fact that they often lie and exaggerate, as most fanboys do). Android has a high proportion of overexcited early adopters, and there's also an Alcoholics Anonymous kind of club of switchers ("I've been using WM for x years" - "Oh yeah man" - "And I switched to device X" - "Yeah man" - "And it worked!" - "Yeah, that was my experience"). That's why we have so many here. Doing this on Android forums would be kind of strange.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
What I really don't understand about the "omg power usage" claims is that when threads don't need the CPU,

they don't take the CPU

.

It's really that simple. If I shut the screen off on my HD2, and there's no user input, and no applications finishing up tasks, then most/all of my threads are blocked, waiting for something to happen, and therefore almost no CPU power is being consumed.

EDIT: Microsoft should just recompile/-build the NT6.1 kernel for ARM and build a mobile OS ontop of that...because we all know that NT6.1 is the Jesus Christ of operating system kernels...see: Windows 7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
@vangrieg

It's 2010 and you talk about early adopters? Android has been out for long enough.

I think you are a WM fanboy who doesn't want to hear people talk positively about Android. Thus, you just call them fanboys in order to make their opinion irrelevant.

Try Android for yourself. Until you've done that, any Android switcher's opinion is much more relevant than yours.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
*Shrug* I did try it. And to learn more about it I will read Android forums, not threads like this one.

And no, I don't call all people who talk positively about Android fanboys. I call people who spend all the time in other OS's forums talking about how flawless Android is fanboys.

Me, I'm not even positive enough about WM to be its fanboy, not to mention spending time elsewhere preaching about it. I'm not the one who thinks that Android is what WM7 should have become, and I'm not awfully sorry it's now dead. HD2 works well enough for me, and the OS is OK. But if anything, Android is too much WM-like for me to like it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I like WM, and this is why I like that Android is a lot like it, but without the flaws. And I have a right to say that, even if you don't want to hear it. I'm not lying when I say ditching my HD2 for the Nexus was a good decision and I'm not lying when I say Android has been working perfectly for me so far, WM has not.

You have a long way to go, I think. Calling people fanboys, just because you don't want to hear what they say, is not very good behaviour. You can't shut up people, just because you don't like their opinion. That's more fanboy-like behaviour than anything else.

I'm more of a Microsoft fan than most, and I'm certainly not a big fan of Google. But when one of Google's products works well for me, I will say that and I will also say when I don't like one of Microsoft's products, which is WP7. Whether you want to hear it or not.

Don't visit "General" forums and "general" threads, if you don't want to hear such things.

That's all. I certainly would never ever call someone a fanboy, just because he tells me about his experience in a "general" thread. You can tell me your experience, but you can't call me a fanboy just because you don't want to hear mine. If you don't want to know about it, then don't read it. If you read it, respect it.

And by the way. If you want to tell me your opinion, you can colour the chart in the other thread. I've even uploaded the Excel sheet, so that people can post their own opinions! Because I respect other people's opinions and I'm interested in them.

Fanboys rather try to shut other people down if they don't like their opinion, which is also your behaviour and I don't like that at all.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sorry about my choice of words. I tried not to call you a fanboy directly, but I guess it didn't work. :) I appreciate that you are not aggressive to warrant that label, would an "avid fan" make a better description? There's nothing wrong with you personally, it's just human nature - when people are excited about something they tend to disregard drawbacks. That's why I'm always skeptical when I hear stuff from people like you, that's it. And you are obviously excited about it since you decided to spend so much time preaching for it.

Re coloring, I won't bother. Tables like that don't matter much for a very simple reason - benefits and drawbacks lie in different dimensions, and different things matter to different people.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
I tried a htc hero and was very disappointed, having to switch back to my SE x1. I dont think the android OS is bad but i dont think its as good as wm6.1 (never got on with 6.5 but only tried custom roms).

But saying that i agree with vangrieg that wm is not great either. I know there is a lot of iphone dissing on the forum but playing with my brothers one i have to say it works very well as a phone.

Im hoping wp7 will work like as well as the iphone does whilst being very different ui wise as i dont like the iphone ui.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
You really should play with a more modern Android device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] imperiallight:
WM still trying to copy/compete with Apple but still as far away as they ever were...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Seems like Apple blew it!!

This arrogant guy should be a bit more careful, what he says!

What's this, then?!
[Windows Phone 7 General] imperiallight:
E-inking is much better on the iphone than any other device bar a dedicated tablet PC. I can annotate and highlight PDF's with the stylus as well as draw complicated sketches with dedicated apps.

You should try it sometime. Oh, sorry you can't can you.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I thought "if there is a stylus, they blew it"?!

Now you tell me e-inking is great on the iPhone. I though there should be no stylus, according to Steve Jobs?

Any by the way, I don't believe it. I've used real Tablet PCs and using an active digitizer is the only way of inking that makes sense.
[Windows Phone 7 General] imperiallight:
It is infinitely better for sure but at least the iphone is a mobile solution.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Not very useful with that small screen, though. And if you believe Steve Jobs, if you use a stylus on your iPhone, you "blew it". :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] imperiallight:
The stylus is mostly just a bad habit I carry from WinMo PDA's but its preciseness has obvious value in certain 'technical' situations.

Its non-thinking like this which leads you and many others into having a lousy mobile experience. I don't even know what mobile you have but I just know its going to be a second rate experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mrmomoman:
Funny how many of you speculate on an OS that is still months away before final release. MS said they would most like introduce at least for the first part a pause and continue form of Multitasking. Hmm what is the OS 4.0 doing? Hmmm....

Also they will eat their words again when Windows Phone 7 does not indicate Task manager does it?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
iPhone OS 4.0 only pauses after a timeout of 5 minutes. Other than that, it's real multitasking.

WP7 does not do that. It pauses the apps immediately and does not offer APIs for background services, e.g. streaming.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I don't have a lousy mobile experience. Since I got rid of Windows Mobile, I have a perfect experience.

Much better than what the iPhone would ever be able to offer, thanks.

That's not a secret, but apparently Steve Jobs is not able to understand that,
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
true, there are a few running newer versions on the OS on better hardware. But at the time everyone was saying how great the htc hero was and how good android was at that point in time.

The problem being to really try a OS/handset u need to use it for a week or 2, and for me that means i have to buy the handset which i did with the hero and then i sold it weeks later a lot cheaper than i bought it, so i cant keep trying new handsets as they come out.

I may buy a android phone in the future but not at the moment, i have the newest version of android on my x1 (so i can see how it progresses) and it does not seem a large jump from the os version on the hero.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Well, you can't judge Android from running it on your X1, because the difference between Android and WM is all about stability, fluidity and "just working". Not so much about features, cause WM can do pretty much everything.

Obviously, you can't get those things when running it on a device that was not designed for it. Thus, running it on the X1 really eliminates the key arguments for Android.

I don't know where you're from and what the laws are in your country, but usually, you can return products you buy online within two weeks or so (that is, unless you damage them).

But of course, no need to hurry, as long as you're satisfied with your X1. There's always better stuff coming out. :)

For example a GSM version of the Evo. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] domineus:
strongly disagree

heck the current android port on the x1, touch diamond, touch pro and others have been actually running on par with devices running on android

even if you compare to a simple samsung moment vs touch pro 2 xdandroid it is quite polished and just as polished as the samsung moment with the speed to boot.

Don't knock the xdandroid builds they are becoming quite comparable to android itself
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP45SjKhdr0

I have to say you're right. From what I see there, it really seems to run as well as it gets on that old processor.

Still hardly comparable to something like the Nexus, though, cause there's still noticeable lag on the X1.

Do the 3G, WiFi, GPS, camera etc. work, so that it could be used as the only OS?
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
A lot of hate for the current WM 6.5, but my wife's first intoduction to it is on our HD2's and she not only uses it fluidly, but her learning curve has been extremely short. The machine has tons of memory and a great processor which finally allows the OS to work up to it's potential. Android is like SPB Mobile Shell on a WM phone IMO. Now that isn't a bad thing, but it doesn't make Android a savior to me. Also, I'm not sold on the current Apple OS, 4.0 or WP7 and how they will operate. The lack of a storage card and cab installation really turns me off. Apparently I won't have an option in a few years so I'll enjoy my HD2 for a few years.
[Windows Phone 7 General] iamcrazyfire:
No! The paused apps still can update the hugs/titles and do notification
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
That's push notifications, nothing more.

That has been available on the iPhone for ages, although of course not with tiles.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
I'm not sure if I completely agree with Steve Jobs that an OS has failed in it's multitasking design if users sees any task killer. Perhaps killing tasks is innecessay under the smart multitasking approach, but with backgrounder in jailbroken iPhones I see it as a necessity to free up memory to as to keep the device from sluggishness and poor battery life. No point leaving my TomTom running in the background after my trip is there? Currently in a jailbroken phone I have customized my phone go leave an application to run in the background by a normal single press , but to truly quit it by a longer single press of the same home button. Of course all the task switching applications now allow users to quit the running applications from there as well.

The multitasking in OS 4.0 provides the ability to remove a running task from the dock by holding it down until the icons wobble touching the deletion badge on the icon but I feel that this is a little inefficient. I much prefer The current method of being able to just long hold the home button to truly quit the application without having to invoke the task switcher/task manager and quit the application there.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
He's got a task manager in his own OS....

I certainly don't agree with him. It shouldn't be necessary to close apps manually, but other than that, there's nothing wrong with at least providing the possibility.

With regard to the stylus, I must say he blew it by not providing one for the iPad. I'm personally looking forward to the HP Slate or the Courier, if that'll ever be released. He clearly doesn't realize the potential of the stylus, which is kinda poor for a guy who considers himself innovative.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
...lol.

So you think that applications should just close themselves without any user input?

Consider this: Are you using your computer/phone, or is your computer/phone using you?