yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] frane:
I must admit, after today I am seriously considering iPhone after this multitasking (fine with me).

I always wanted MS to create responsive phone like Sony Ericsson or like iPhone. I have two phones, touch pro and N95 8GB. Both are slow as hell. Both have all the features that are on the market today. But my next phone is going to have smooth interface, that is all I want.

no more ROMs from Mr. Energy, no more tweaking and other things, just smooth GUI out of the box :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] krjcook:
Isn't this type of multitasking similar to WP7? The only difference I see is that Iphone OS 4.0 has a task manager.

The folders support in Iphone OS 4.0 is BS, because it isn't a file explorer, it just allows you to manage you apps by placing them in a folder.

http://www.wmexperts.com/iphone-40-borrows-multitasking-windows-phone-7-upps-exchange

Joe Belfiore said in a Channel 9 interview that MS will allow applications to work and the background, but the developer has to give a reason why. Music will continue to play, Web Browser will continue to load, GPS will keep it's fix, and Mail accounts will continue to update. Less important applications like a facebook or IM app will use notifications. And other apps that have no purpose to be running when not in use like the calculator, gaming app, word processor, will save & suspend then revive from the state you left it at.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nanoo-eg:
SERIES 7: NO MULTI TASKING

IPHONE OS 4: HAS MULTI TASKING

How going back? This is the question.

MS throw out us from the boat. They want to be done apple at the position of apple like Isnogood comic.

HD2 will be my last WM. After that I don't know where I will go

We have some good apps, but old style and it is normal.

Who developer will make new app for win 6.5? It is so free OS the next day his app will be at all Warez sites.

So we stay with resco and SPB apps for ever.:)

Series 7 it is a worst OS than 6.5

Just for social net and nothing more.

HTC keep life Windows mobiles until now with the Sense and the hight devices.

I can't work my HD2 without HTC Sense. And now MS say at Series 7 no other sense, except them UI, no this no that.

Normal the most of us will go at the android or iPhone from the next year.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Sigh Sigh Sigh....Apple's claim to fame with it's iphone OS was that it's so "simple"...icons -> swipe -> Click -> App -> home -> rinse repeat.

They did this because it was "simple" and "intuitive", and they talked smack about all the other "overly complicated" OSes out there...fast forward to 2010 Apple adds limited multitasking -> task switching (I don't care what job says...that's a task manager as we know it on a phone) -> Folders for their icons.

How is this any different from those "overly complicated" UIs from a decade ago? Not that I don't think it's better an a decent release, but these are all things that apple said was bad.

You know how I switch tasks on my WM device? I hold a button and bring up showcase...press an x if I want it closed, click on it if I want to go there...look at the iphone, it's a similiar expeirence, but I like their less invasive approach to bring up the task switcher at the bottom.

The problem with WM is that it's dated, and takes the consumer some knowledge knowing what to put in the device to make it a good experience. The fail of WM lies with the people that make the phones. MS failed in that they took their eye off the ball and didn't update it as regularly as they should. It's really a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing or even supposed to do.

Only recently have we seen some good wm deviced come together, the HTC HD2, I like the Samsung Omnia II. HD2 is much better out of the box than the omnia though. The vendors failed MS, and MS wasn't much of a lead for the vendors.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
I really wish that people wouldn't be drawn in by the hype and by the big banners.

iPhone OS 4 does not have multi-tasking per se.

It has very selective multi-tasking: Some types of apps can multi-task, others cannot.

Might I remind people what "multi-tasking" means. "multi" means "more than one", and "tasking" means to "perform a task", so "multi-tasking" means "doing more than one thing at once".

"Doing more than one thing at once" is NOT what saving state or having a background app selector is. That's just a roundabout way of doing what WP7S does.

The only case in which iPhone OS 4 multi-tasks is in the selective areas Apple has laid out.

Sure, it's better than WP7S, but select your words and terminology more carefully.
[Windows Phone 7 General] DMAND:
Do People actually read here or just read the title of the post

WP7 Has the same kind of Multi-tasking as IPhone OS, Pandora etc will run in the background
[Windows Phone 7 General] dlci:
I completely agree with that point. However I also feel that Apple's approach is better than the others. Definitely certain applications do not have to run in background. Some others need only event mgmt, etc.

It combines the Android's suspending of applications with some background services like WM.

Interesting enough, Jobs said that the user will not have to stop processes - they'll be closed automatically. I doubt that would be done like in WM (memory threshold), but I'm curious how it's going to be implemented.

I also tend to agree with Jobs that if users must take care and kill applications with task manager the whole concept of multitasking is wrong.

P.S. We haven't seen WP7 and Iphone OS4 yet though so everything is speculation. Not mentioning that 1 month after their release some tweaking/hacking can turn the multitasking approach upside down ;)

A small edit: iAd! I guess that's the real & only reason Apple decided to implement multitasking. However I'm a bit concerned that iphone will be treated as movie channel and flooded with stupid commercials...we shall see, but iAd integration in the OS doesn't sound good to me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Jamoflaw:
Really? WM 6.5 ?!? every feature? If you mean the rumple fugly-ness the unresponsiveness.... the appauling physics engine which windows mobile uses. Its all aesthetic yes, but thats one of the first things people see when they see my phone. O yay it looks like control panel from windows 3.1.... excellent!

They can't polish a turd, but unfortunately they have decided to remake iPhone OS1 which is silly.

Android looks so good in comparison to both and I am looking forward to my new Desire when I can renew :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] iamcrazyfire:
WP7 has multitasking !!!!OK?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Since when does WP7 have multitasking?

No, it doesn't.

Sent from my Google Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Once and for all: NO, PANDORA WILL NOT RUN IN THE BACKGROUND ON WP7.

Maybe it will later, like on the iPhone. But it's ridiculous and embarrassing how they threw away everything good they had and are now playing catch-up, even with features that they had over the iPhone for ages.

Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] NoWorthWhile:
--'.

Pandora plugs itself into the music hub and uses the Zune software, so YES, Pandora WILL RUN IN THE BACKGROUND, through the Zune client on the phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
No.

It does officially not run in the background. I don't know where you guys got that misinformation from, but fact is, right now and probably also after the release, unless they change it, Pandora and other third party apps will not run in the background.

Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
I've actually still up in the air they have told us two different things!

http://www.mobilitydigest.com/wp7-multitasking-it-depends-who-you-ask/
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm not sure about Pandora as it relies on streaming. The only case where there is "multitasking" by using system services is playing music. Joe Belfiore said that third party applications will be able to play files using OS services/APIs. So yes, it does have the iPhone-OS-like pseudo-multitasking, but with only one confirmed service. iPhone OS has seven of these.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
They've only annouced music but since they have been saying specifically running pandora they must have others available. I think the 7 that are on the iphone will be pretty close to what MS is offering also except for the VOIP because charlie said that will only have limited functionality.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well if they have others available then they should fire the whole PR department and whoever was in charge of prepping speakers at MIX on what to say, they should grow pumpkins instead of working in a major corporation.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
They actually have said specifically Pandora will NOT work.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
See what you're saying here is everything that is wrong with the modern day tech consumer.

You're totally okay with other people deciding what your experiences are going to be.

We're fully-immersed in the digital age, and people still think that it's 100% okay to be fully computer-illiterate.

The currently Windows Mobile is fully useable by anyone who is computer literate. The flashing process, the cab installation process, et cetera, are all 100% friendly to people who are computer literate, just as the installation and initial configuration of Windows is 100% friendly to people who are computer literate.

The problem is that people living in this digital age do not want to become computer literate, and their capability in this digital world is damaged because of it.

Rather than approaching this segmented market in the way that Microsoft has done with this desktop operating systems, software developers are treating everyone like idiots.

You say that multi-tasking is "wrong" if users have to kill applications with a task manager? What do you think happens on a desktop OS? Sure, you don't use the "Task Manager" per se, but right-clicking something on the taskbar and clicking "Close" is exactly the same idea.

The digital age is supposed to be about choice and empowerment, and up until the last ~3 years it was. In the past ~3 years, however, you've seen companies like Apple locking people down. Steve Jobs genuinely thinks that he knows what you want and need better than you, and rather than merely providing you with easy or pre-configured access to what he thinks you need, he gives you exactly what he thinks you need and nothing more.

This is wrong, I -- as should others -- refuse to endorse a company that takes the choice of what I do with my product out of my hands.

Period.

I think it's funny that there's not more of an uproar about this. I guarantee if Microsoft was piping API-aware ads to your phone people would be in an uproar. But "the fruit company" is doing it, and they have their reality distortion field on full power, so however they infringe on my right to privacy and security must be A-OKAY.

Thanks Steve Jobs!

Idiots.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Multi-tasking is a myth....or more appropriately an illusion.

A single CPU cannot work two tasks at the same time. The only reason you "feel" it is working two or more tasks at the same time is because it is letting one task sleep and while it processes another, but just does it (switching) so fast that an individual feels it it processing both the tasks simultaneously.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
Do you honestly think that I don't know that?

Furthermore, most modern CPUs actually have more than one CPU, and therefore multi-tasking is very much not an "illusion".

Last of all, I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion-at-hand. Whether or not "multi-tasking" is a myth, WM6.x does it, iPhone OS (even 4) doesn't fully do it, and neither does WP7.

Period.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Do you decide which side of road you are going to drive today?

Do you decide what the chef in the restaurant is going to use as ingredients?

Do you decide what work you are going to do today?

Do you decide the source of your tap water?

Do you decide the lyrics that your favorite musician is going to create for his next album?

Do you decide what is going to be the value of your local currency in the exchange market?

Do you decide when you are going to make love to your love?

Do you decide.......
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Yes. If you did, you would not argue on the save and resume states.

It still is an illusion because any time the number of task is more than the number of CPU, the system is creating the illusion that I spoke about. It is like the Master magician, just a lot faster.

We are discussing Multi-tasking. You are beating up the save and resume process that the iphone/wp7 uses.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
No, but I decide what car I'm going to drive, what kind of engine that car has, what kind of stereo that car has, et cetera.

The analogy doesn't really work -- the road is more akin to the cellular network, or the internet. You don't decide on the standards thereof for the sole purpose of interoperability.

I do take exception when cellular networks or ISPs try and restrict what I can and can't do with the connection I pay for, however, as I should.

It's about keeping corporations honest.

Again, a flawed analogy.

I don't decide what ingredients he's going to use, but I decide what to order.

If Steve Jobs is the chef, then he picks the ingredients and what I order.

You're a f***ing idiot.

I GET PAID to work.

People PAY to use the iPhone.

Therefore all comparisons between them are moot.

Again, this is a service that must be delivered uniformly (as with the road).

I choose the cup or whether to drink it straight from the tap (or one of various other options, like putting it in a pot to boil eggs) however.

No but I may decide to buy another album.

Or not buy any album. ; )

Ipso facto.

...yes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
There is no http, just electrons moved by an electromagnetic field. And there is no spoon. What the heck is the point in bringing this discussion about processors, really?
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Here is what prompted my reaction

My point is that in your daily life you are very little, if any, in charge of what your experiences will be. It is the world, cumulatively, that decides what your experience is going to be.

This was a trick question. Of course you contemplate, but it is your love who decides if she is going to let you have fun today or not :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
...how?

There's a difference between task scheduling, and saving a process indefinitely until it's brought back to focus.

One creates a plausible illusion of doing more than one thing at once, the other does not.

And it's so fast that people don't notice that it's actually doing one discrete thing (or a number of discrete things equal to its number of logical processing cores) at once, and therefore it's irrelevant.

Fact-of-the-matter is that iPhone OS (for the most part) and WP7 do one thing at once, they do not create a plausible illusion otherwise whereas pre-emptive (or co-operative for that matter) multi-tasking does.

...yes...

...because people are calling the save and resume process "multi-tasking"...

...which it isn't...

Get out of your sexually dysfunctional relationship.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
And you can only order what is on the menu.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
And if I don't like what's on the menu I leave and go to another restaurant, which is what I'm advocating people do with iPhone/Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
It is all in the mind. Multi-tasking is in one's head.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
I am ok with that......no argument on that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
People PAY to get the experience they desire.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Ha ha....now we are getting somewhere!!!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
Okay?

You were trying to make a comparison between me having no control over my experiences at work (which I am paid money to do) and having no control over my experiences with the iPhone (which I pay money to have) (I do not have an iPhone, for reference).

With something that can potentially be so flexible, I don't see a reason to make it inflexible, and I don't see a reason to pay my hard-earned (well...maybe not-so-hard-earned...but that's beside the point...) money to purchase a product whose manufacturer dares to artificially limit me.

I have no problems with real limitations, but the fact-of-the-matter is that iPhone OS has obviously always been a multi-tasking -- to some degree or another -- operating system. Apple just artificially took that functionality away, in the same way Microsoft is doing it.

In my opinion, that's wrong.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
iphone os 4 and wp7 uses the same type of mulitasking. watch this vid and he says at the end that developers can have there music running in the background though wp7 api's (the same as apple is doing).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjw8OQFGibg
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
I beg to differ read this article coming directly from Charlie Kindel's mouth.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Kindel said? No, they misquoted him. There is no streaming API.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
check the video 3 posts back, the main dude says that developers can have there music etc playing in the background using api's
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Then what API's are there?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Yes but even if you play pandora music in the background you still have to have a way to get the song to your phone since it's not already on there. Therefore a steaming API is required so you can A:Stream the music to the phone and then B:Play the music on the phone useing the music API.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
not sure if they have released the list of api's yet. the full development kit is not available to may i think
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Hopefully they talk more about WP7 on monday for their secret event.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
im guessing that is what they will have. as the iphone (4) will have it and i dont think microsoft will miss that api out if apple has it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
There is no streaming API. Pandora will not work in the background, unless they make some last minute changes/additions.

Period.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Who told you this?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
The dev tools and docs are already released, if you haven't noticed...

Todd Brix' answer is also definitive.

All the other statements were misinterpreted, they only said that this could possibly happen. But it's definitely not there from the beginning, unless they make last minute changes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
I dont know what api's they have as i have not look into it but i would be surprised if ms does not have a way to make pandora stream in the background as its silly to have to stop the app (music) when u need to do something else. MS made a big deal about Pandora so i think they will figure someway it will work in the background.

I honestly think that a lot of things have not been decided yet for wp7 and will change as it gets closer to launch. with what apple has done with iphone os 4, they will have to make some changes to compete.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
only beta, and i have them thanks ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Well I have the tools haven't looked through everything yet. This isn't the final release of the tools I thought.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Sure, it's silly.

Did that stop Apple from doing it?

Why do you think MS would be less silly than Apple?

They made a 1:1 copy of Apple's iPhone, including the restrictions, and dumped all the good stuff they had.

IMO, tHat's VERY silly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
a lot of there stuff was copied as apple is making a ton of money and MS wants the same.

no sd card

built in SSD

marketplace only for apps

zune software to sync

it means every app u buy for your phone ms gets a cut (no other way to install apps but through ms)

they dont want sd cards or file explorer to u cant send or install apps etc apart from going through there software.

they have taken control of the ui and os so they can add updates each year like apple does (full control)

I dont think they will be as silly as apple was, as they have to compete with apple (when the iphone was released there was not much to compete with apart from wm6 and symbain
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Don't you think it's silly to try to catch up with something that's not even competitive?

I think they are silly.

(sorry)

They should just have made Windows Mobile better, not dump it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Freedom comes with responsibility.

Most people do not want to be responsible for the "admin work" of the phone OS when they have paid big bucks for it. Therefore they want the phone OS to take care of that part, automatically.

If you have a better way to achieve the same, I am all ears.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
I'm really sorry to have to say that, chikoo, but you're talking total nonsense.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
Gee, maybe the way Microsoft Windows has been doing it for ~25 years?
[Windows Phone 7 General] dlci:
:) Right. For example with all memory leaks, hangings, slow response, crashes, reboots one per day, bugs and sec. holes... did I miss something?

yes, in fact that was wm6.1, wasn't it

mobile phone is not a PC..can't work that way
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Wow I use 6.1 currently (Tried 6.5 but don't like the start grid) and I rarely ever need to reboot it unless I run buggy programs like FPSeCE and something doesn't go right. Theirs nothing wrong with the OS it's just all the crap that get's loaded on it is usually poorly coded and thats what makes the devices have those problems. Get a WM Phone, plug it in to the wall and walk away. I bet if you come back in a year it will still be working just fine.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
You think that somehow a multi-tasking (and perhaps also multi-user) operating system magically crashes, needs to be rebooted, has slow response, and has memory leaks?

You're right, multi-tasking is a bad idea.

RUN!

BACK TO THE DARK AGES!

WHERE ARE THE MS-DOS INSTALL FLOPPIES!

P.S.: The only difference between a phone and a PC is the architecture -- x86 versus ARM. There are no magical differences that make it impossible for a phone to effectively multi-task.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Big article on ArsTechnica!

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...s-windows-phone-7-without-even-shipping.ars/2
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Great article, the problem is that normal people don't look at features such as multitasking and such when they are looking for a device. They want something that looks good and will work well with the few task they usually perform. Apple released a product that had no multitasking and missing many key feature but people still when out a purchased one. As long as MS is on key with it's ad campaign I think this puppy can sore. It just needs a good rep from the get go and wide knowledge that the platform exsist. That's my opinion of course. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Yeah but you throw some ****ty software on that PC and it will crash in a heartbeat. I have Windows 7 Ultimate and I have had some compatability issues with Software that have caused this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
No, if you're stupid and you allow ****ty or incompatible software administrative access, the computer will crash, and rightly so.

There's nothing that can be done to prevent poorly-written software from bringing down a system if it's allowed administrative access.

That's no defect of the system, but rather a defect of the developer of the software-in-question, or a defect of the user.