yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
As I mentioned before, I'm hoping that this is a thread free of fanboyism and become a place foe people genuinely seeking information to ask questions and get factual answers. I do have several Android related questions and hope some of you could help me out here.

1. When I tried out Android on a Samsung Galaxy, there are two completely different copy and paste implementation. I inderstand that it was based on an earlier OS version. Can someone tell me what the situation is in Version 2.1? Has google cleaned this one up yet? Also, I understand that HTC desire has a method that closely mimics iPhone's and I like what I see there. Is this implementation available in Nexus one also? Is the other two older implementation removed/cleaned away or are there now three different ways to copy and paste in Desire? I read that that in dome handset you can't do copy and paste in mail and browser application. How widespread is this limitation across OEM?

2. Does Desire have the pink patch picture and video problem like in Nexus one?

3. Is google voice dictation available on all Android phones or only on Nexus one? I'm confused by contradicting comments here so would like to know what the fact is.

4. How do Android users deal with obsolescense in the OS if they wish to keep their phone for say 3 to 5 years? Is rooting and flashing customized ROM the only way to go?

5. Is HTC Desire the highest spec phone besides the Supersonic at the moment?

6. How serious is the limitation on storage availability in installing applications? Any potential problem in installing say 300 applications on the internal memory?

That's all for now. Thanks in advance for your helps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] hdubli:
hello steve

I try to answer the questions

copy paste is widely available across all possible versions of android and is pretty useful.For ex one can copy entire sms by selecting copy all option.Also one can copy specific text by select text option.

Android apps r relatively small in size so if a phone has 1gb memory 300 apps can b easily installed.

voice dictation is available in 2.1 any device

can't comment on htc devices.All I know desire = nexus one more or less

I hope u get some clarifications.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
1. I don't know what you mean by "two different implementations". I think there's only one: Long press, select text, cut/copy and long press in another field to paste.

It works similar to the iPhone, but without the magnifying glass, which is only available in the Desire's browser. The implementation is consistent, though.

EDIT: Ah, now I see. In the Nexus One's browser, for example, you can not long press to select text, you have to click menu, more, select text, then select the text with fingers or trackball.

From what I understand, the iPhone's implementation also not consistent, cause it's long press or double press. Is that right? It also is more widely available on the iPhone, because Android only supports copy/paste in input fields and some other places.

2. This pink patch problem is there on many handset cameras, including the iPhone. I think it's a hardware issue, that can be covered by software. On the Desire, it's almost invisible. I think HTC have covered it there, like they did with the update for the HTC HD2. They apparently didn't do that on the Nexus.

3. It's available on all 2.1 handsets, though it depends on the keyboard that the manufacturer implements. HTC's keyboard does currently not have the microphone button, but you can change that and get the feature back on the Desire, without rooting. The framework for voice to text is available on all 2.1 phones.

4. That really depends on the hardware manufacturer. Either you get updates, or rooting and flashing is the only way. However, I think a version of Android doesn't become obsolete that quickly. Android already includes most features, thus updates are mostly cosmetic. It's not like on the iPhone, where updates bring crucial features that have been missing before. Even Android 1.5 is still fine today, I wouldn't call it obsolete.

5. There's also the Samsung Galaxy S, with a 4" AMOLED display, 9.9mm thickness, 1GHz Samsung processor (faster than Snapdragon) etc., but I didn't consider waiting for this, because it lacks a flash for the camera. Then there's the Sony Ericsson X10, with the Snapdragon, 4" LCD display, but unfortunately without multitouch. Oh, and there's the Motoroi, less RAM and processor speed, but I think it's woth mentioning, because it has a crazy Xenon flash in a 11mm thin package.

6. It depends on the phone. If you have a phone with gigabytes of internal memory, you can install thousands of applications. If it's only 140MB available, like on the Desire, you can maybe install 100, depending on how big they are (I currently have about 60 installed, including two 20MB navigation programs, and have 23MB left). If you're into installing lots and lots of applications, you should choose the right phone. ;)

Since you're a jailbreaker, I'll tell you that rooting allows you to install programs to the storage card.

That's why I asked. Nice that it's possible to go back, though it seems a bit complicated to install. Windows Mobile users might find it easy, though. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
Are u really trying to say the android app market is better than the iphone?????? I know the iphone market has a lot of crap but so does the android market.

U should have light green on the android market and dark green on the iphone market. I know its your opinion but even u cant argue the iphone has the best app market by a long way.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I think he was smart in doing what he did since the Apple apps are way overpriced.

Plus, who really pays for apps anyway?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
there is a lot of free apps and lots of good apps/games(angry chickens) for 59p(uk). yeh i noticed that the sat navs were well overpriced(£60) well u concider that u dont get any hardware with it.

As far as not paying for apps, either u have poor(looking) apps or good(looking) apps paid or pirated.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ganondolf:
interesting interview:

http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=15234&utm...tm_campaign=Feed:+WmPowerUser+(WM+Power+User)

some things will come after launch and some things that i expected at launch will not be available (extended hubs)
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Please add to your chart...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Yes. You may get fewer apps, but the censorship and obscure policies of the AppStore are a no-go.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Ahh very true. I want my nudity.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Nothing new there. That's exactly what was known before, at least I knew that before.

Concerning the Market, again, the Android Market gets dark green, the iPhone AppStore only light green for me. This is intended and reflects my opinion.

Nobody needs 200.000 apps. The really important apps are what makes the difference and many of them are not allowed on the iPhone AppStore. I do not care whether there are five "where is my car" apps or 30, but I do care whether there is an alternative media player or not!

Due to the lockdown and censorship (see also Apple's latest move of trying to forbid apps written in alternative programming languages) the AppStore can not get dark green from me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JAguirre1231:
Android has a porn store, you know
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
So true. Farting, noise-making, jokey apps do not count. That cuts the numbers significantly.

yummy
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
Hello hdubli,

Thanks for your answer.

I'm still getting conflicting response for these areas unfortunately. I'm still under the impression that coyp and paste is not available at many places, like in google mail, web browsers (only on input field as opposed to the whole webpage). Also, I'm still of the impression that the implementation is not uniformly done like in iPhone.

I also got the impression that although Desire has 512 MB of RAM, for some strange reasons, some users sees less than a hundred available. This is one of the areas that bother me real seriously.

I'm also under the impression that voice to text is only available if you're using the google keyboard, but the use of it somehow remove the ability to pinch and zoom the web page. I hope this information is not correct.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
1. There is only one consistent way in iPhone to my to knowledge.

2. There is no pink photo phenomena that I'm aware of on the many forums that I visit.

5. Thanks for the information. I'll take a close look at those alternatives too.

6. I've no problem rooting. I hope you've no problem jailbreaking too.

Thanks for the reply. I'll have more questions on the way.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Which is that? Long press or double press?

http://pocketnow.com/thought/clarification-the-pink-spot-syndrome

It's more visible on some phones than others, because of different software. Luckily, they fixed it in the Desire's software (as opposed to the Nexus One's).

I'll root the Desire asap, because of the storage "issue". But that's the only reason, actually. I wouldn't root it if it came with more free internal storage, like e.g. Samsung phones. Don't know what HTC thought when they put only 512MB into it, despite Sense etc. taking additional space... probably nothing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
On the Desire, it's available in the browser, in Mail and in all input fields. Probably also in other HTC applications, but I haven't tried others yet.

The implementation is: Long press, click select text and choose the text you want to select. In the browser and Mail, long press directly starts the text selection.

On the Nexus, it works exactly the same way in input fields, but in the browser, you start the text selection with the menu key. That's the only inconsistency.

By the way, may I ask why the 'consistency' of the implementation is important? Do you copy&paste all day long? :D

No, but seriously....

The only problem is that you may eventually want to copy something from an app where the feature is not available. But I think that's rather unlikely to happen, unless you rely on GMail (HTC's Mail app also does GMail as well as copy&paste).

There's about 140MB of available space. That's not too much, unfortunately, but I currently have about 60 applications installed, including CoPilot and Navigon, which take 20MB each. I have 23MB left.

Hope that helps. If you plan to install a few hundred apps, you should either wait until it's rooted, or get an Android phone that comes with more internal storage (luckily, there's ever growing choice :D).

Can't help you much with this one, unfortunately. I know there is also a version of HTC's keyboard that has the voice to text icon.

Maybe the phones they release in the US will include it. Currently, voice to text is US only, thus it makes sense that they removed it from the European Desires (though they could have left it enabled for the UK...).
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
We press and hold.

I seriously doubt the credibility of this article.

What I've read it that it is not a software issue that caused the pink pictures in the HTC phones. It is a hardware issue. HTC tries to correct it by software for still photo, but not could'nt do it for video because it can't process the color adjustment quickly enough. If it is a software issue, they could have been able to correct it in video also.

I also have doubt that the picture shown was taken with an iPhone. If it has that problem, it would have appeared in one of the many forums that I regularly visit, but I have not come across anyone mentioning it. Have you read anything like that directly from an iPhone forum rather than form someone who's defending HD2?

Is the storage issue the only reason? I would guess that they're many more reasons to do so, such as to have multiple exchange server support?
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
How fine is each step of volume increment in the Desire? In winmo phone, this is one of the areas that I didn't like. No amount of tweaks and customization would let me change the sound volume in finer increment. The lowest volume is too loud when I try to listen to music before bed. I like the small increment in sound volume in iPhone. How about in Android? How many increment steps are there from the lowest to the highest volume?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
It is a hardware issue that affects not only HTC phones, but most other manufacturers as well (since most of them use the same camera chips, HTC for example use Samsung camera chips).

The manufacturer's software is what makes the difference.

Read that article for clarification, it explains the issue correctly.

Of course, there are other potential reasons, but for me, it's the only one.

8 steps and you can control alarm, music, alerts, ringer, system and in-call volumes seperately.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
When the hardware is faulty, a software that doesn't correct it could be called at fault I suppose. But if there us no fault with the hardware then there us nothing to correct.

8 steps is a slight improvement over winmo's six. I like the 16 steps inccement in iPhone better.

Another question for you: What us the minimum number if click from anywhere in the system, not just from the desktop, are required to toggle on and off Bluetooth, wifi, location service, data connection, etc? For iPhone it is two: touch the task bar, then touch the appropriate toggle. How about in Android?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
One click, there's a built-in widget that you can place directly on the main screen.

(and you can download more of them)

That depends on how you look at it. If evey piece of hardware has this fault, is it a fault then?

It definitely affects lots of phones, if not all, it's just more or less visible, depending on how well it's covered by the software.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
But your widget is not visible from every place in the system is it? You can to include the longest number of steps to get to the place where the widgets are shown first. From within any application can you press any hardware button just once to go to the screen where the widget can be used without further swiping of screen? After changing the toggle, you will need at lease two touches to get back to where you came from?

With iPhone, there us no need to leave your application to use those toggle.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm not sure what you mean here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
The longest numer of steps to get where the widget is, is one klick on the home button. :D

And with Android, pressing the home button does not leave the application. ;)

Don't forget, it multitasks. :D

To get back into the application, it's maximum two clicks (bring up recent programs list, tap the application) or only one click, if the application's icon is on the same screen as the widget.

I guess he's talking about jailbroken iPhones.

By the way, you certainly can also put those controls into the notification bar on Android. Without jailbreaking, of course. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
While using an application, I want to change one if the mentioned toggles (wifi, Bluetooth etc). I like to know how efficiently the UI is in allowing me to do that. In iPhone, I touch the taskbar to pop up all the toggles, touch the toggle, and continue using the application.

In Android, do I need to get from the application to the desktop where the widget is kept, touch it, and come back to the application? How many touches/clicks are involved?

Edit: so, 1. To get to home screen. 2. To click the toggle control to pop up all the toggle 3 touch the appropriate toggle 4. Press the back key to go back to that application. Is this the sequence? Do you mind posting the widget screen for all these toggles?
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
a digital camera, is by design, faulty just as the the modern day fighters such as the F-16 are. It is the software that makes the F-16 the agile and easy to fly plane. There is no one in the world who can maneuver an F-16 with the computers switched off.

When I say digital cameras are faulty, I am referring the the noise and the fact that the lens has to be designed such that it hits all the diodes perfectly. There is still time before we get cheap cameras to produce better results.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
I agree.

But with Win Mo 6.5, I can assign my keys various functions. I have for example assigned My task manager to pop up on long press of the windows key.

Similarly I can assign "connection manager / settings" panel to show up on double click of windows key, where I can toggle any and all connection options.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
This is a good point. Don't you just love that everyone in the world thinks they are an amateur photographer now even though the computers do all the work?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
@eaglesteve

You have several possibilities. One I mentioned already: Place the widget on the home screen. Then it's one tap to go to the home screen, one tap to toggle the control and one or two taps to go back to the app you were in.

Or you can get an app that places the control in the notifications bar. Then it's pull down (or tap) the bar, toggle the control.

Or pull down (or tap) the bar, open the app with the controls, then push the back button to go back to the app you were.

Or you can assign an app to one of the buttons, e.g. long press search. Then it's long press the button, toggle your control, press the back button to go back to the app you were.

So that's two to four taps, depending on how you're doing it.

That's the default "energy widget" that comes with Android. Of course you can get like thousands of others from the Market (inlcluding other controls, like toggle screen rotation on/off etc.).
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
I'm satisfied that toggle control can be as good as in iPhone now. Thanks for your explanation.

iPhone has also many many different customization options to do that, including every option that exist on Android. On top of that, there is also an option in iPhone to be able to do these toggle on the lock screen itself without even having to unlock the screen.

I'm interested in learning as much as possible to know how things are done in Android versus iPhone, and avoid getting bog down by unnecessary argument and debates because that's not my aim. I hope you guys excuse me if I do not respond to some of your comment for now.

Okay, I like to move on to find out another thing - Music control.

On iPhone, I'm very used to be able to start, pause, play, skip song, repeat song, change volume WITHOUT having to turn on the screen. I use this a lot a night for example. Is such way of using the music player possible in Android? If not in stock OS, is there any tweak that could achieve this?

I understand that there is an application that mimics the iPod player in iPhone. Can you tell me if it is possible to create a playlist to include both audio and video music? If so, do you have a way to continue to play the audio of a video music without leaving the screen on, like we can in iPhone?

Also a couple of further clarifications for points previously raised:

1) What is involved from the user's perspective in order to store application on SD card on a rooted Android phone. Do you install per normal without any additional step, or is there some sequece of step to copy files to the SD card?

2) You have a back button to go back to the previous application. What do you have to do to go the next application? Press menu to bring up the history? Is there a one step method of moving to the next application like in iPhone?

3) You are able to use a hardware button to go to the previous application. What if I want to customise to make it a lot more intuitive so as to move to next and previous applications like the way I move through the pictures on the photo album? In order word, is there any tweak to allow me to swipe left and right of either the top or bottom of the screen in order to move to the previous and next application? Or may be by using two finger swipe left and right? Is there such a utility available?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
That's also possible on Android. You can place any widget, like those controls, or media controls, calendar, RSS etc. on the lock screen.

(with an app from the Market, as always no jailbreaking necessary ;) but currently you lose the slide unlock and must use button unlock but I don't find that any less convenient, frankly)

There's also an IntelliScreen-like app that brings its own widgets that you can place on the lock screen.

HTC's headset includes controls for start/pause, back and forward. No volume, but you can use the volume rocker on the phone without turning it on.

I don't have any video on my phone, but I'll try whether this is possible.

From what I understand, you create a partition on the SD card. Then you have to modify a sytem file once (hence the rooting), for the phone to recognize it as internal storage. From then on, apps get installed into that partition.

I don't know of any.

Maybe, but I don't know. But I think a hardware button is as intuitive as it gets. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Sethos II,

Could you please add "Blackberry" and if possible "Palm WebOS" in the comparison?

Your table is really helpful to understand phone features, and I think we all need to know as well about those 2 platforms. Especially BB because it has a lot of userbase.

I want to know the best BB compared to other phones.

Thanks :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
As I said, unfortunately I don't know enough about those platforms. Would be nice if someone could help.

Here's the Excel file: http://xdaforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=306726&d=1270851024

Here's Maemo added to the chart, all thanks to Fa7my!

Is all the inofrmation correct? I'll add it to the first post, then.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
Noted. Thanks for this info. Glad to know that Android can do what iPhone could in this regard. Unfortunate that you have to loose the lock screen though, unlike in iPhone where the lock screen can still be retained to prevent accidental operation.

Just for information completeness, we might want to note that headset is not necessary to fully control the music player without switching it on. However, where headset is used, iPhone allows play, pause, forward, repeat as well as control of volume.

Thanks. Will wait for your reply on this one.

How complicated is the step for creating partition and modify the system file.

For me, swipping left and right of set of active application is more intuitive. That's why it is the mechanism for moving from photo to photo. If a button is more intuitive, we might as well use button to turn the photos, right?
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
Next, can we compare the procedure of rooting versus jailbreaking? I will describe jailbreaking first here.

The steps are:

1) Download Blackra1n.exe from http://blackra1n.com/

2) connect iPhone to PC

3) Click on the downloaded exe file and click on the button display and wait for about 30 seconds.

4) Done.

When there is a new firmware upgrade, all data before the upgrade can be preserved after rejailbreaking of the new firmware using iTune. No reconfiguration. No rework of settings. Nothing lost.

BTW, OS4.0 has already been jailbroken, untethered (less than 24 hours after the beta was released). Similarly 3.1.x are all jailbroken, untethered including the newer bootrom. It is just waiting to be released after Apple release the firmware officially.

Would be good if you could tell us if ALL versions of Android could be rooted now.