yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
Well, I personally have only ever used (for any length of time) wp7 and android. My android experience was limited to the free my touch 3g Tmobile gave me. It's version 2.2. So, it runs what the majority of android handsets are running in the wild.

Now is the mytouch the best of the bestest phones out there? No. So, maybe I need to sit down with an Evo or some such. Although, I have 2 coworkers with the evo who always ask me if I have my charger (I never do btw). And, when they have theirs, their phones stay connected to them at their stations.

Same with the two coworkers that have the mytouch 4g. This, in and of itself, is enough to give me pause about android.

However, on my mytouch, I found the UI to be very inconsistent from app to app or even within the OS itself. This is why I love metro. You get a consistent UI throughout the OS and the vast majority of apps. This also makes for a consistent UX as well.

I do not like the appearance of android, or iphone for that matter, as they look like my desktop only more cluttered. Well, the iphone looks better than android, imo.

I have several friends with iproducts and I do like the iphone/pad overall. My hangups are screen is too small on the iphone and the ipad is in a weird tech device purgatory where it's not as useful as a laptop or netbook but has the appeal of the phone without the convenience of use, and the icon thing is dated. But, the UI overall is quite consistent and smooth. Plus, they just work.

Admittedly, I need to play with the ipad more to come to a more well informed conclusion.

To shorten this up:

Android seems to have to have bigger, better, badder hardware just to get up to snuff in the UX department. But, it reminds me too much of windows mobile. For geeks, great. For the average consumer, not so much.

The iphone/pad is a great product but may suffer from "King of the Hill Syndrome" (ala Microsoft with IE and WinMo) and is very app-centric.

Windows Phone 7 has taken a different route, yet falls in the center of the above two. It's fluid, has a great UI, and just works like the iproducts. It is building on its apps library with great apps hitting everyday, it has and will have great integration of services, moreso than the other two, and it has a range of hardware choices and more coming, like android.

While not as customizable as android, I would argue it has no need to be that customizable. With all the above, it's certainly enough for most people and even for many of us geeks.

So, where I stand should be no mystery at all.

Each OS has its attractions and each its detractions. However, at this rate, wp7 will have fewer than the other two. Yes, I know ios5 and ice cream sammich are comin'. But, android suffers from the "two many cooks..." addage. And, as I said, ios suffers from an, "we're the kings and we only need to make a few tweaks here and there to stay ahead of the peasants" attitude.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I agree with all of this. The upside, though, is that very few people are ever going to fall into the developer category, so they won't experience that particular class of headaches.

Of course, even from a consumer perspective, there are real problems with the way the marketplace works. But I think that, between the Mango version of the marketplace on the phone and the new web-based marketplace that is coming, things can only get better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
Yeah, I'm sure it's a winning horse. Being on the other side of the fence, though, I'm one day angry with MS and happy the next one. Man ! It seems they make it on purpose :)

The only problem with this (I think) is that for example a few probably good developers, who have other jobs, for example in the desktop environment, like I have, can be put off by having to cope with an unreliable structure and incompetent staff. As you said, this would still be a minority (I'm still here, that's for sure. A good dev...don't know :) ) but seriously I spend half the month thinking how fun it is to develop on wp7, then I hit the app hub/marketplace wall and I start b*tching for the rest of the month !
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
It's like a roller coaster ride. Developing is always fun and satisfying. Dealing bureaucratic fools and red tape during the "paperwork" process is, for most software developers (on any platform, mobile or otherwise), the equivalent of a root canal. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] madphone:
it might be difficult for wp7 developers, i don't lnow, but compared to the other platform started 2010 "bada" it must be a dream. There are tons of themes every day. when a goog app appears in the market (not often by the way ;)) nobody notice it.

And certification is terrible too. it can take weeks or sometimes months, just because stupid testers in timbuktu or elsewhere complaining about tiny things.

and samsung even tries to push bada, because they are focussed on android phones. hardly surprising developers are complaining about very low sales.

I think microsoft is on the right way. with mango and nokia and some cool new phones by the and of the year they have the chance to give apple and google the needle.

There is no other system that offers attractive smartphones like omnia7 at that low price of about 200€.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
Developing apps for the wp7 compared to iOS or even android is a dream, so simple and there is a guide for almost everything you need to do.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
Developing yes. Certification and dealing with the fragility of the system, nope.

Certification is a process which varies enourmously depending on who gets your app. I submitted two similar apps, the first had a button icon not visible on white theme (the button was visible though), the second had 4 entire menus and 3 entire buttons not visible for the same reason (yeah I know, I forgot). The first failed certification and the second passed ! I am not joking !

But this is just part of the problem. The fact is they have a set of rules that doesn't make sense without a content control. Accepting 200 semi-identical RSS apps a day, but failing a good program because it has an icon not visible on white theme, makes zero sense.

Then again, I'm mostly sure that there are far worse situations. I've experienced android/google and left it in a hurry !

I didn't know bada was so bad though. I usually complatin because it takes 5 days to get an app certified, but maybe there's worse in that too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Estimated first quarter sales for WP7 this year = 1.6 million devices sold.

:(
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
WOW those are very low numbers. Actually those are exceedingly low numbers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
I think those numbers are low because of the initial teething problems, after 2 quarter it should start selling much much more.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dkp1977:
That and because of the fact, that Microsoft did some lousy marketing so far. But I believe when the roll out of Mango begins and Nokia starts selling there WP7 handsets, Microsoft and Nokia will start heavy promotional campaigns. What will then still need a lot of work is getting those sales reps in the stores a little more positive about WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] webbyfoot:
For me Flash support is still the killer application

However much I might fancy trying WP7, I'll have to stick with Android for now because it is still after all these years the only mobile OS that supports Flash at a reasonable level.

People have this funny idea that Flash is just for showing videos but there are many websites that can never work anyway except with Flash, but even with videos I can watch ITVplayer, 4OnDemand and full desktop versions of iplayer and I'd miss that too much going to one of the other OS.

John
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
I see more people here chosing android vs anything other for the same reason they were chosing ios vs anything else a year or two ago. That's the buzz word, that's what operator are giving you with their contracts and that's what everyone does. 36 months ago I was heavily advising my friends to buy an android device rather than an ifonz, no-one was listening. Today they're buying android and they say, yeah, you were right but you know.... (you know what ???? :) )

The extra-vast majority, maybe 80% of the people (at least here) don't buy a smartphone based on their judgement

[edit] that doesn't want to relate explicitly to your comment. Android is still a good os in my view, but I'm just saying most people don't even know what they're buying
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
Actually, the number I've seen is 3.6 million. But, as people have said, and is really obvious, this has to do with marketing.

Most people, though they may know it's the "new windows phone", don't know anything about the OS. This includes the people selling the thing. I've had conversations with sales reps from T-mobile, Verizon, and ATT, that just don't know much about the thing.

One of the Tmobile sales reps had an, "oh my gawd! That's cool!" moment after showing her my phone. She then said that she might get one now that she knows a bit about it because she just didn't know anything about it previously. This after the, "It's a bad phone" spiel.

Another Tmo sales rep told me the xbox live thing was "useless". When I asked why, he said because you couldn't play any actual games.

Funny thing is, the Verizon guy said the same thing about xbox live. This just shows a lack of education about the phone. Once you educate the reps, when people who have no idea what they're looking for, come in and either ask or a wp7 for just a smart phone, they won't necessarily be steered away from it.

And, when Microsot comes out with an ad campaign that really hits home, sales will blow up, just like Android did when Motorola hit with "Droid Does" back in '09.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
3.6 million is with the number included from last year.

Marketing isn't the ONLY reason.

XBOX LIVE isn't what a normal person thinks it is on WP7. Its deceptive marketing, and its common.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
If, not when. There's nothing indicating any improvements in Microsoft's marketing or PR skills. They seem to have stuck in the '80s.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
I agree, but I have yet to have an android phone that can actually run flash without crashing or stuttering. That includes the new dual core phones.

While it would be nice to have, I just don't think it's necessary.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
True. And, I say this in all honesty. I've had my DVP since January I have yet to miss Flash. I surf the web, play youtube videos, and don't really miss it. I'm not saying that Flash doesn't enrich the web experience. I'm just saying, I haven't really noticed its absence on my phone.

They've made some new hires as far as marketing even going so far as to pick up a former Disney exec in charge of marketing and branding. I don't disagree with you, however. While everybody remembers those funny "Really" commercials, people didn't quite know what they were for.

It's going to have to be a campaign of simplicity. Show what the phone and its features can do as they pertain to your everyday life.

"Windows phone. It gets me"

Also, they could go with the:

"Windows Phone. It's on the Phone."

This campaign and slogan would showcase the integration-ism (made up word as it pertains to phones) of the platform.

You need a simple and indelible slogan that gets across what the phone is, what it does, and how it fits "you".

IF

they can do this... they will make some serious headway.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
I think it also speaks a lot for wp7 that even though it has the lowest numbers of users, a larger percentage of those users buy apps compared to other OS. I don't know if it's because other OS have better free apps or what.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
All the arguments mentioned here are right. But it's worrying me a bit, that those same arguments where circulating 6 months ago.

Nokia/Mango of course will propel this a lot higher, but I'm starting to doubt high enough compared to the potential. If a society big as MS pushes all its odds on a new mobile plaforms, but after 8 months the vast majority of people don't even know it exists... well... it's just bad

Of course here people will only buy what other people buy and shops and carriers provide.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
I don't think it's too much of a concern. Remember, Blackberry was a word of mouth thing. Became the Crackberry and BOOM! Soon it became the ulitmate IT choice after Windows Mobile which became big because it had drawn on the windows name.

Iphone, contrary to what some may have you believe, was a revolutionary combination of everything a smartphone was and wasn't. It catered to Apple's chic demographic while doing what no other phone to that point had done. BOOM!

It was a tv add campaign, which was styled after movie and game adverts, that blew up Android. Motorola gave us a teaser which simply offered a big red "Droid" center screen and "coming soon" lower center. What was this Droid? A new Star Wars movie/tv show/game? People wanted to find out more.

Once it hit, it became the alternative to iphone and by extension ATT as this was something you could get on another carrier. Yes, Tmobile G1/Dream. But, the G1 didn't account for android's meteoric ascendance.

Then last year we got "the phone to save us from our phones". This made the consumers peripherally aware but not keenly as the other ad campaigns or word of mouth for other phones/OSes had done.

WP7 has been spread, at this point, mostly by word of mouth, similar to the Blackberry. But, in this day and age that's rather slow, internet not withstanding.

Microsoft will need to make a full scale assault in television, pre-movie ads (I hate those by the way), the internets, and maybe most important of all, retail stores.

If a consumer walks in and says, "Hey I'm looking for a new smartphone, what should I get?" And, the rep asks, "Have you seen the new windows phone?" That will go a long way to making a dent. But, thus far even the reps who sell the phones know next to nothing about Windows Phone except that it's windows mobile and is horrible.

However, it appears that Microsoft is quite committed to WP as well they should be. This is a great OS on par with anything Google or Apple has to offer. Not to mention, everyone I know that's seen the new Win8 concept UI goes, "Wow!" It's the same when they see my phone. Most already own a PC with xp or Win7 on it now. So, that should be a minor conversion as they are already members in the ecosystem (buzz word for the next few years).

This amassing, tornadic ecosystem is what will suck in the remaining masses. All, but the diehard Apple and Google fans, will definitely be looking at this unity of what was once disparate software platforms, and will be looking to convert, or add to their already owned parts.

In short... Resistance is futile. ;)

Aside: Andycted DL'd your game today. Gonna give it a whirl.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
I am not convinced that MS has put everything behind wp7 yet, sure they are doing a great job but as far as advertising it seems like they aren't even trying.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I think its a demographic problem. As I am bombarded with WP7 ads. They're not from Microsoft, mostly AT&T. I've seen only one Verizon commercial.

Microsoft has actually done a lot this time. WP7 sponsored some of the NBA play off games.

A lot of people actually knows of the devices.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ruben302:
There is no ultimate OS, the ultimate OS is different for everyone. and the first post really needs an update :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
thanks, let me know how many elements you found, if you got stuck and what do you think about it!

I think most remarks done regarding what MS is/is not doing, could be only evaluated with the posthumous knowledge of the real current state of the market, I.e. Whether there is still quite a lot of room for emerging systems to win with only a few veryparticular assets like in the past, or rather today it's already the case of needing the perfect platform/marketing/user base/luck combination. This obviously to get that third or half of market share, as a target.

Maybe we will be able to tell in retrospect
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
I played your game, clicked on a few of the ads as well. Only thing I don't like is how loud the reaction tones are. It's either mute them, or turn my volume down so much that I can't hear anything else on my phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
Thanks ! What kind of phone have you got ? It's the first time I get this reported, but I've experimented it only with two omnias and the emulator. On one of my omnias the volume is actually too low ! Yeah go figure !

[I'll see if I can add a volume slider]

The other day I was thinking that maybe MS strategy has been to just give up 'direct' breakthrough with advertising wp7 and relies on Skype/Nokia/Facebook/Hulu (?) etc partnerships or aquisitions to reach for customers, by linking wp7 or the entire platform with those products. Which will take more time, but possibly could be more effective
[Windows Phone 7 General] ryude:
I have a Samsung Focus NoDo 7390. Also sometimes there is a bug where the tiles for the element names don't show up. Like first you tap on one element list and that list shows up fine, but if I tap on the second element list only 1 name shows the rest are invisible.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
I'll try to add a volume slider then.

Thanks that bug is known to me, it's part of the standard toolkit of wp7 when used the way I do. I'll try some workarounds as soon as other stuff is completed
[Windows Phone 7 General] TotalAxim:
Microsoft blunders along

My first WinMo device was a Dell Axim X5 (I'm sure you could have guessed), then X50, then X50v, then the HTC Tilt, then HTC TP2.

I have put up with the Microsoft blunders, flaws, missteps, and product lethargy for 5 devices. HTC made WinMo6/6.5 more useable with the TP2, but since I screwed up the firmware on the TP2, I had to get a replacement phone. I didn't want to pay $$$ for a popular phone, so I got one that was less popular, the Droid 2 Global. Enabling tether on the TP2 took too many buttons, as the HTC WM6.5 interface sucks and is sluggish. The difference has been exponential.

WP7 is what should have come out over a year ago. MS took out one of the top reasons I like WP: Excellent sync'ing with Outlook.

Microsoft has to step on the accelerator and take some chances because as is, it can't gain a competitive edge against A & G. I think the WP7 is a slicker phone, but it does less of what I want. I've mocked "Droid Does" and I've mocked the whole Star Wars hubris, but it's what "does" what I need it to do right now.

Microsoft needs to stop missing its target dates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
Agree on that part. Missing promises after you took your time to come out with the 'perfect' product is disaster. And outlook syncing while they had a couple of good reasons, should either be left there or the current 'hotmail' sync implementation should be way more functional (one calendar only per account ??? are you serious ??)

On this I think I differ a bit. These are right feelings, but relate more to what you and me, sitting here in xda and with a history of computers and smartphones, can say/need. This type of needs are representing maybe 10% of the users out there. So yes, it's correct, but sadly (for us) not that relevant for their success, I think
[Windows Phone 7 General] elitemikes:
I'm curious, what is left after mango to fix the outlook synch issues. I am using exchange from my work and it seems to be good enough for me, although this is the first time I had the ability to connect to a corporate exchange server.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
Let us not forget, good people. MS has yet to reveal all 500 features. Sync with Outlook may yet be up their proverbial sleeve. As features leak out over the next few months, let us keep in mind that all will be revealed in time.

I think we will be satiated and surprised as to what WP7 will bestow upon us.

Aside: Played the game, Andycted. I like it. It's similar to Doodle God, though I like the sound fx better and it seems more in-depth. One of the bugs you stated you were aware of (disappearing tiles) and I've found no others to speak of as of yet. Also, the sound is fine for me. I have a DVP on .7392.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
Thanks. Doodle God is an iteration of the good old Alchemy, and I've taken that as a starting point. I tried using more scientific stuff and analysis
[Windows Phone 7 General] jessiethe3rd:
It's simply numbers.

Why does Android sell so well? Simple - they have a multitude of numbers across a multitude of carriers with offerings from the low end (Acer and other bottom of the barrel devices) all the way up to the fancy Samsung Galaxy II S.

Diversity of devices and availability of devices equates to higher quantities sold.

If a person was given the option to use both WP7 and Android for a week your typical user would almost always choose WP7 given the easy of use and reliability. This isn't taking anything from Android - it is a great OS with a huge following.

Devices is what WP7 needs... tons and tons of OEM devices. Nokia signing on, ZTE, and Acer ensures a flood of lowcost units with a very consistent experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ so what about IOS, and Bada?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
What about them? An alternative to many devices may be a brand or massive distribution.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
With the introduction of wp7 i truly have trouble seeing how other operating systems are even an option. I was tinkering with an s2 the other day because my sister is technologically retarded and screwed it up and I felt as if i was being punished having to deal with the lag and general poor performance and the aesthetics are about as appealing as a school bus fire. Ios was only ever first place because it did it first, its a toy, the os itself is crowded as hell and the phones aside from display and battery are a real laugh. With the introduction of the first wave of Nokia devices growing closer I dont see how anything aside from wp7 could be a valid option for 2012.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
It was a point. That its not simply numbers. Those two OSs have the least devices. Yet their sales are rocketing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
To this day I've yet to see a Bada device in the wild.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
This depends on where you live.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phil10:
Hello,

I love WP7. it is convivial, quick, modern. I shall not change for another system. of the moind, for l 'instant. Enjoy.:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
Please unsticky this thread. It's obviously changed since this chart was developed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] madphone:
SMartphone market shares: guardian
[Windows Phone 7 General] sonrobby:
Android is great ^_^
[Windows Phone 7 General] Droidtier:
I agree that this thread should either be unstuck and drift off or the chart on the front post updated.

I've had copy and paste from months now on my Omnia 7 (and mango with turn by turn navigation, background services, and multitasking)
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
More like Touch by Touch Navigation.

But this thread should be closed and reopened with a modernized OP if they want to keep the discussion centralized here.

No one in their right mind is going to read through a 50+ page thread, anyways and most people probably won't even bother reading page 1 due to the assumed (and correctly so) laws of thread drifting and derailment.

Beta-Level Dev Phone updates aren't really relevant to the discussion, though. What's relevant is what is available to consumers. That would be NoDo (if even), not Mango.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shahab001:
:):):)wp7:D:D