yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
If I'm honest to myself, I don't want to rely on HTC software for anything apart from eyecandy (and even that with caveats). And in the case of Desire, I will have to do it for the #1 function for me - Exchange sync. Also, I'm sick and tired of phones that can't play goddamned videos without conversion. So as far as I'm concerned, that's easy to beat.

I personally can tolerate all lockdowns one can come up with if they give me a phone that (in no particular order):

1. Has a good 4"+ screen (AMOLED or schmAMOLED, I don't care if it has decent visibility in direct sunlight)

2. Has flawless Exchange sync capabilities

3. Has a good .fb2 bookreader and an offline satnav app with POIs, via points, options to dynamically modify routes, traffic info, with good maps of places where I drive, not where google or Bing collect most ad revenue

4. Supports real-life video codecs (xvid/divx .avi, doesn't require conversion for HD content even though I don't need HD on my phone, .mkv support is less important but still desirable, but if remuxing works I'm OK with lack of mkv support)

5. Has a casing that gives me decent grip so that it doesn't tend to slip from my hand all the time

6. Has support for .doc/.docx, .ppt/pptx and pdf, with ability to easily put files on the device for viewing. Doc and pdf absolutely must have text reflow options

7. Has at least 30 hours of autonomous operation

8. Has a decent music player with good audio output, with an equalizer (I'm not an audiophile and don't care for flac, but it has to be decent)

9. Lets me get push mail for business and personal accounts

10. Supports copy/paste operations throughout the system, without exceptions like Android's Gmail client.

Multitasking, sideloading, SD card support, tethering etc. etc. are great but I can live without them easily (with regard to multitasking switching is more important for me than running in background, and WP7's Back button more or less solves it for me). File system access is not that easy to give up but I don't really care if it allows me to transfer the filetypes I use. Some things like decent browser are also important but all major platforms have that. Jailbreaking to get functionality is OK if it's not "tethered" or some such nonsense, but obviously not desirable.

No phone on Earth provides all I need out of the box. Some don't even with all the tweaking. Some excel at certain aspects and miserably fail at others. Desire doesn't cut it for sure, on too many counts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
I compared the HD2 4.3" screen to the Touch HD 3.8" screen, since I have both, and guess what?

Text at minimum zoom level is easier to read on the smaller Touch HD screen, due to higher contrast. The size doesn't matter.

Since I don't have the Desire yet, I don't know how good the screen is. 1

Since no WP7S phone is out yet, I can't say anything about the screens. 1

The iPhone has a small 3.5" HVGA screen. Small size, low resolution = no competition. 0

WM does. 2

Desire does, unless you need some advanced security stuff. 1

WP7S does. 2

iPhone does, unless you need some advanced security stuff. 1

WM does. 2

Desire does. 2

WP7S does not. 0

iPhone does. 2

WM does. 2

Desire does. 2

WP7S does some (divx). 1

iPhone does not. 0

WM does, but with bugs (all the players sometimes play the files, sometimes they don't). 1

Desire does. 2

No WP7S phones yet. 1

iPhone does not. 0

WM does. 2

Desire does viewing, better than WM. 1

WP7S does viewing and editing. 2

iPhone does viewing, better than WM. 1

WM does viewing and editing, though viewing is no pleasure. 1

iPhone, Desire, HD2... they all have pretty much the same battery life. WP7S phones will be no different.

Desire does. 2

WP7S does. 2

iPhone does. 2

WM does, but with bugs (e.g. stuttering). 1

Desire does Exchange + GMail. 1

WP7S does Exchange + Exchange. 2

iPhone does not. 0

WM does not. 0

Desire does for browser, office and any editable field, which covers almost all of use cases. 1

WP7S does not. 0

iPhone does. 2

WM does. 2

Desire: 13

WP7S: 11

iPhone: 8

WM: 13

The takeaway?

Stay with what you have, if you're satisfied.

If not, have a look at the Desire. You'll find that WP7S or the next iPhone are not worth waiting for.

I'm not satisfied anymore with WM, since the quality of apps is really bad, compared to what you find on iPhone and Android. Plus, it's just not as smooth and stable and there even are already things that WM can't do, and will never do (like Flash 10.1).

WM is an option to stay with, if you already have a phone running it. But it's no option anymore for a new phone.

The iPhone is no option, cause I don't see any reason why I would play the jailbreaking game when I can get a phone that does everything out of the box (and most things better).

WP7S is no option, cause it's months away, and even then, it won't be complete - so it's effectively at least one year, maybe two, away.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
You are very generous towards Desire (and in some takes towards others). :) Its Exchange support doesn't just miss "advanced security stuff", it also is done by HTC, and it's a no-go for me (well, unless I try it for quite a while myself and see it really works well). Re video, it's not the impression I get from Android users. I'm sure the problems will be solved now that NDK is out, but AFAIK it's not there yet. Some Samsung phones I hear have excellent codec support, but that's thanks to Samsung, just like in the case with WM. WM and iPhone don't do push mail for both Exchange and Gmail as you're limited to a single Exchange account. Don't know how that works on Desire but it doesn't matter because Exchange support there is done by HTC. I also heard nothing but very negative feedback with regard to sound equalizers on Android, there's some problem with sound processing APIs or stuff like that.

It doesn't make any sense to discuss screen sizes, of course. The takeaway for me is - Desire doesn't cut it on many counts. If it suits your needs, fine.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
And on the iPhone, it's done by Apple. And on WM/WP7S, it's done by MS. :D

Android offers enough advanced APIs to make a good Exchange client, and that's what the client on the Desire is: good.

If you don't belive me, try it yourself.

Didn't know that.

One more reason for Android, no?

Then what phone does?!

You are asking the wrong questions! It's not whether a phone is perfect, because you will NEVER get something perfect.

Ask yourself: Which one comes closest?

I corrected the post above and gave points (0,1,2). That's the outcome:

Desire: 13

WP7S: 11

iPhone: 8

WM: 13

So, WM vs. Android. Exactly what I said before:

If you ARE satisfied with WM, all good.

If you ARE NOT satisfied with WM, don't wait for WP7S, it's not worth waiting for.

(iPhone is always a mystery, but probably also not worth waiting for)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Apple and MS are OK. HTC shouldn't make software, in my opinion. They suck at it. I wouldn't want to go into lengthy discussions about it though. Just call me a capricious prick if you like. :)

I don't think Android has it - it's a restriction put by Microsoft even for themselves, the reason being some silly "security" reason - i.e. companies don't want to allow employees to accidentally put their data to another company's or personal server or some such stupid nonsense. No, I don't think it's anything but silly, but heck, some companies only allow IE for security reasons. So for now Microsoft and other Exchange licensees (Google Sync uses EAS too) are bound by this restriction. It's never been mentioned by MS whether they'll change it in WP7, but I guess they should. It'll change for Apple and Android as well I'm sure, I'm just not sure where it stands now.

Obviously, for me it's HD2 for now. What will be my next phone I have no clue.

No idea about these two. Definitely no WP7 until it gets copy/paste, a satnav app and a bookreader. I'll also need to look at hardware with regard to grip and screen issues. I expect their Exchange implementation to be good, and their video codec support out of the box is the best in the market (yes, you'll get xvid support, and even most mkvs should play after remuxing, as experts in the area tell me). I certainly expect that their music support will be great, so it has a chance to be attractive for me overall, after/if the issues above are solved. No idea about iPhone 4G for sure. I don't expect anything earth-shattering here, but who knows.

Maybe a next Android device with Android OS 2.5 or 3.0 will be good enough, but I see absolutely no reason to switch to Desire which according to my personal criteria is inferior to what I already have.

Oh, and did I mention UI? I happen to like WP7's UI a lot. I love typography in interfaces (computer or real-life, I'll always prefer a clearly written "Men's Room" over a fancy triangle with a circle on top of it in a bar at 1am). I always hated all attempts to use the phone's home screen as desktops/launchers and always wanted it to be more of an Outlook Today, if you're familiar with the concept. WP7 is doing it even better than I could ever hope to see. Don't get me wrong, I won't sacrifice important features for it, but it's one compelling argument for me. Although I think it can be replicated in Android theoretically, as technically there's no big difference between tiles and widgets. We'll see.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
It must have it since you are always logged in to GMail. So Exchange + GMail must be possible.

See? You DO agree with me!

You just didn't understand what I wanted to say ;).

I don't say the Desire is perfect. I don't say you MUST switch. I only say IF YOU WANT TO SWITCH, then don't hesitate, cause WP7S and the next iPhone are not going to beat the Desire.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It's possible everywhere, it's just limited in getting push with only one account. Say, Push from Exchange, polling from Gmail. Or vice versa. But not both.

I agree with you on many things, we just make different conclusions because we weigh factors differently. No 4"+ screen and Exchange implementation by HTC = No Desire here. Basta. Jailbreaking? Huh, don't want that, but can live with it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Nooooo, you didn't understand me!

We didn't make different conclusions! We made exactly the same conclusions, from what I see.

I said keep your WM phone if you are satisfied!

I did not say you should get a Desire. Only (!!!) if you are not satisfied with the WM phone you already have.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
RE Exchange, that's what I found:

Android supports multiple Exchange accounts out of the box.

However, there's no native calendar synchronization and some smaller features missing.

Possible workaround: Google Calendar Sync can sync your Google calendar with your Exchange calendar. Your calendar will then will get synced with your phone through your Google account.

The HTC Mail app does not support multiple Exchange accounts.

However, Exchange via HTC Mail and push GMail via the GMail app should be possible, thus you would get two push mail connections.

I have not found confirmation on whether this is possible, but I don't see why not.

By the way, people say HTC Mail on Android is much better than what you get on Windows Mobile. Since I don't own an HTC Android phone, I can not confirm or deny that.

There's an app called Moxier.

This app offers much more complete Exchange integration, with almost all features available.

Email, calendar, contacts, tasks, security features, remote wipe...

I'm currently testing it. Let's see how it works. ;)

EDIT: Doesn't integrate with the default databases, it keeps its own. Hm...

I will find out more when I get the Desire in two weeks. There's probably some workarounds involved, or at least it's not straightforward to set up push mail, but there's also some bright sides: You can get two push connections, something you don't get on WM. Also, HTC Mail app, judging from screenshots and opinions, seems to be a lot nicer than Outlook Mobile (there's even a tab for "flagged" mail- that's ironic, considering how Microsoft have been emphsizing that feature in WP7S :D).

To conclude what I have to say to this thread: What I see is that WP7S offers almost nothing worth waiting for.

Typography UI is great, I like it a lot, but is it also that practical? Sometimes, but not always.

Many features of WP7S are already there in Android.

We will have to jailbreak it and don't know the downsides.

There will not be many apps available (forget about GPS navigation etc. at the beginning).

It will lack features (like c&p, and for example Android already supports Flash)

It will take months to iron out the bugs, add the missing features, make the necessary apps, remove the restrictions... IMO, that's not worth it, cause you can get phones with no restrictions, lots of apps, much more features, easy UI and more etc. RIGHT NOW.

As for the iPhone? It has been traditionally lacking behing for half a year in terms of hardware. It will be hard for Apple to even catch up with something like the HD2 or Desire, let alone beat them.

And even if they can catch up hardware-wise, there will still be the nasty software shortcomings. Multitasking? Maybe. File system access? Maybe. No iTunes? Not going to happen...

It will be hard for Apple to make the iPhone a worthy alternative again. I'm not saying they can't, but it's highly unlikely.

(I know, some people are fine with the restrictions etc., but still...)

Keep your WM phone or switch to an Android, that's my takeaway. The others are not worth waiting for!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
That's not really support if they don't support Calendar. And I really don't want to sync my corporate calendar with Google. Also, I don't use Gmail, and don't want to. :)

What makes you think I'll want to rely on an app called Moxier for the most crucial feature I need in a phone? :D

HTC Messaging also looks nicer than default WM messaging. Yet it's ultimate crap. I don't bother because I don't use SMS for anything important. Exchange is vital though. No amount of reviews or other people's opinions will be convincing enough, these are always incomplete and sometimes it's something that I take for granted that's missing. I recall my shock when I first used a WM phone and it didn't have automatic redial - nobody ever said anything about this feature missing, and I didn't even think about a possibility that somebody can make a phone without it! So maybe it won't forward attachments without downloading them to your phone first, maybe something else but I'm 199% certain that something will be missing or won't work properly. There hasn't been a single implementation of an Exchange client, for any platform including desktop ones, that would really work 100%. Moxier my ass, you must be kidding me. :) I've also read about it, there were some quirks/problems which I don't remember, but they are there for sure. It either uses its own calendar instead of the OS one or does something stupid like that.

Overall, it may seem like I'm splitting hairs, and maybe I am, but that's just an area where I'm not ready to accept compromise or even try something unless I've test run it for a week or so. And that's not likely because of other issues, I'm just not interested enough. So I suggest that we just move on and leave my lack of desire to desire Desire be. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
That's just because it seems that thinking outside of your own use cases seems to be hard for you.

-Zune owners/subscribers

-Xbox owners might like the xbox integration

-Netflix Subscribers

-XNA Developers might be drawn creating games on popular platforms as well as the new wp7s. The other platforms being PC and Xbox. Many Xbox Live Arcade games can be ported to wp7 quite easily. So there is a good possibility to have a fairly robust gaming device on your hands in short order.

-Unique UI experience

Not to say that you're wrong about your pro-Android stance, but in my eyes you're verging on fanboy-ism. There are some obvious pros to wp7 that you seem to just disregard. Any of the above features might draw some people towards a wp7 device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
How many Zune subscribers are there in Europe? 0

How many Netflix subscribers are there in Europe? 0

What remains? Games.

What remains if you don't play games? Nothing.

And even if you play games, the iPhone is a far better choice.

The UI is beautiful, but not very functional in many places. Lots of screen real estate is wasted. Tiles? They're just widgets, but less customizable.

What pros are there?

@vangrieg

What makes you think I said you should use Moxier? I just said it exists. Please... your problem is you don't understand me. I didn't say you MUST use this or buy that, I just posted about stuff that exists and what I think about it.

Please, stop acting as if I'd try to convine you about anything. I'm just saying what I think, nothing else.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Again, outside of your own use case. There are people with those services in the US market. Would you agree that's contrary to the comment you made, and are actually a feature that might be worth waiting for?

I don't know about that...I'd rather play Harvest than any game currently released on the iPhone, and Harvest took 3 weeks to make for the wp7 device.

What about a fairly full library of xbox live games that could probably be quickly ported to wp7 as well? I fully anticipate wp7 to be the better gaming platform, and it has a well-developed gaming sdk already in XNA.

I'll never understand why people make this argument...the goal of a UI is not to clutter the screen with as much garbage as possible. The point of a good UI is to highlight certain areas of interest that's both visually appealing and useful.

Yes, there is a black bar to the right of the screen, but who cares? would it make the device better if the black bar was gone, and the tiles were 10% bigger? Probably not, I wouldn't recommend making them smaller to allow 3 tiles to fit either, as you want them to be big enough where displaying text on an updated tile is legible.

The UI looks clean, simple, and does away with excessive graphical flair. It's a nice mix of the cluttered desktop look (iPhone UI), and a directory structured device via the HUBs. The UI itself allows for battery conservation, the black background and white text is a minimal display approach which means less of a draw from the screen itself.

I'd like you to explain how the UI is not functional in many places on a small screen device? And saying there's some text on top, and a gap to the right, doesn't seem to cut it for me. I find it very functional messing from around with the emulator and the videos I've seen.

Honestly, from the interaction I've read between you and vangrieg, you sound like a salesman. If that's not your profession, you should consider it, you're quite good at being persistence :). It really seems like you're selling Android, and namely the desire to him.

1. Never take no for an answer

2. ABC - Always be closing
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
Wow...this has turned into a "mine can do this" and a "show me what yours can do better than mine war." Really? Heh...everyone talks about the iPhone being the biggest competitor...but really the company who truly owns the largest market share of smartphones in the world is RIM...that's right the maker of Blackberries controls 41.6% of the total world market. Why? Not because their phones have the cool ability to run custom xda developed ROM's, or run as smoothly as the iPhone but because it does what it's supposed to and appeals to the enterprise level users...the place where smartphones started...

And Android...yeah great system and growing fast but it still controls only 5% of the market...big deal...in three years if it keeps growing it might have a change but hey...things can change a lot in a short time...

WinMo...another great system...but it's the community here that has kept it kicking and versatile...Microsoft risks alienating much of that community in trying to catch up to the iPhone's numbers...

iPhone...well...if Apple holds to its past style of things it'll epic fail here soon, fire Steve Jobs, and then hire him back again a decade letter to start the cycle over...(just a bit of geek humor :P)

So...everything has it's place...yeah I left out Palm...dont really feel like discussing it for a number of reason's, chief among them being that the glory days of owning a Palm PDA are long gone for most of the world...buy what you like...dev for it, make it yours and screw anyone who doesn't like it...their entitled to their opinions too...if you believe in that sort of thing...;P

Source:

Phone's I own:

Palm Pre+

TMOUS HTC HD2

MT3G (original)

G1 (original)

Motorola Cliq

Nexus One

T-Mobile Dash (yes that donkey is still kickin...unfortunately)

and last but not least...an IBM Simon...if you are a dev and don't know what that is just...well...it's a smartphone community I sure hope you do...it was a hand me down from my dad now sitting in a box in my closet...it still works though lolol...

I'll get off my soap box now...

http://boomnews.info/google-makes-biggest-gain-in-smartphone-market-share
[Windows Phone 7 General] DarkDvr:
After looking at the horrible "iPhonic" monstrosity called WP7, I immediatly sold my year-old TP2 that was failing me consistently, and got a Nexus One.

Finally the nightmare is over, and all the WM trash seems like a distant noise to me now. I'm absolutely in love with N1.

Personally, I recommend people not to wait for the WM7 and get an android device. Heck, even iPhone is much better than WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] witch1:
I don't like Android, I LOVE Winmo 6.5.5, have an iPhone that I like as much as Winmo. I have all the apps I need-bought them years ago and have only upgraded them WP7S is ugly, will be unstable as hell, no app support yet. I see no reason to move away from anything I have, as yet. On Microsofts website you will see 6.5 isn't being abandoned-it'll be Windows Phone Classic, for business users and tech heads. It may be dead or a dinosaur next year, but, I plan on using it until ALL of my flashable devices die-and that will take a very long time because I baby them and never get rid of them. 'Nuff said.:D
[Windows Phone 7 General] DarkDvr:
Give it a chance man, it's amazing. It's fast, reliable, customizable...

I bet if you used N1 for a day or so, u'd love it =)
[Windows Phone 7 General] witch1:
Had an Android for a day and I hated it. But, to each her own.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fa7my:
Another Option..

Like all of the community here I was very eager to know about the "Whole New" WP7S.. and like most of you I was turned down by the large amount of stuff it can't do..

I thought that you guys on this thread were looking for an alternative for our dying WinMo.. some say Android (which I greatly respect) and others say iPhone 4G (but I'm not so much into iPhones though)..

I thought I might be able to give you another option..

Couple of days ago I was able to tinker with the Nokia N900.. although Nokia was out of my list.. but this device really captured my attention..

That device is a real powerhouse.. very smooth & fast, never lagged once will I was using it. the Maemo 5 OS is really wonderful.. with simple animations and classy looking design.. it really captured me.

When I made a brief research and found that it can multitask, have a blazing fast browser, have file access, open source.. it really offers much..

P.S. I'm really considering buying this device, if anyone have any bad experience with it please tell me ;)

These were just my two cents..