yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Mahagon Coral:
Dear experts,

Since I'm using custom Roms (with 6.5 or 6.5.x), I was asking myself why for god's sake my Browser was supposed to close in the background while I was downloading a big file or why my Windows Live Messenger is always being closed while I'm not having the focus on its window ...

Well I'm now at the point to know that Windows Mobile loves kicking Applications out of the RAM, especially when having a high memory consumption ... BUT why does it do this to apps that obviusly are supposed to be also running in the background (messenger) and also, why does it start closing applications even with more than 10% of my Ram left? I thought Ram was used to store programs in it, not to keep it empty and clean ...

So, is there ANY way to disable this "feature" that kills the possibility of multitasking? Or at least any chance to prevent Windows from always killing WLM and Opera? I already found "EverApp", but it doesn't work too nicely ... The added programs are still being closed and I cannot reopen then, as they are still present inside my memory ...

Thanks in advance!

Edit: And I totally wouldn't mind having the errors related to disabled memory management, as I have cleanram and a task manager to do that myself and would prefer it to have it that way ;)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I am looking for a solution to this as well.

I am using an HD2 with 576MB enabled, and IMO it's unreasonable for WM (6.5.5) to close application ad libitum if I keep open:

1) tomtom

2) navicomputer

3) mortplayer

4) acr base (a background process that automatically record received and made calls)

With 576MB total ram, even with the memory taken by the OS, it's unlikely for the ram to be unsufficient to run these tasks at the same time... instead, it should be able to run at least other 2 application and have yet more to spare.

Asking the developer of the call recording software to make it into a service could be a way (and I already did), yet I cannot really have navicomputer made into a service, let alone mortplayer, and those got closed by WM as well while I was driving (imagine the trouble I had to go to start them again while holding the steering wheel, lucky me it was in a semi-traffic-jam).

Isn't there any setting to reduce the occurence of this behaviour? Has the page pool value have something to do with it in any way?

EDIT: just digged some more in the concept of pagepool. So I know what it is and how it works. Yet the mistery deepens, afailk the default pp on the leo is 15mb, some cooks set it to 22-24mb, yet very far from the ~270mb free program memory I get after boot... starting tomtom, navicomputer, mortplayer, and having acrbase in background amounts to less than 15MB of ram, go figure if it makes any sense that with 276mb starting free ram WM should close any of these apps... maybe it's all the other way, and I should have a bigger pagepool to accomodate all those applications at the same time?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] christophocles:
pagepool is for system processes (i.e. inaccessible to you). increasing pagepool would only result in *less* memory available for your user processes, such as tomtom, navicomputer, etc.

unfortunately i have been looking for a solution to this problem for many months and it is, as far as I can tell, impossible to solve. this is, imho, the worst thing about windows mobile. they did not correctly design the core operating system and created this ugly, ugly hack to prevent the system from crashing when it runs out of memory, and as a side effect it closes your programs without saving any of their data.

an equally ugly workaround is to use XTask, and "hide" the processes that you do not want closed. you see, if they are not visible in task manager, then windows mobile does not auto-close them. they are still running and in the process list, just not the task manager list. in order to hide a process in xtask, you open up the task manager list, long-press on the task you wish to hide, and go to Other->Hide. In order to make a process visible again, you have to find it in the Process list, click on it to view its windows, and long-press on the main window of that process and choose Show. You have to do this very quickly because windows closes background tasks and not the active task, so when you open XTask, it becomes the active task and the one you are trying to hide becomes backgrounded. you have about 5 seconds to hide it before it closes. its a very convoluted process but it works. i can get my music started in kinoma, hide the task, and then open up Garmin. As long as garmin stays in the foreground everything can rock along indefinitely.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
Yes, that's sounds literally obnoxious, a workaround which would be just right for a setup with an htc alpine running wm 6.5 maybe... absolutely not acceptable for devices such as rhodium or leo which have plent of resources.

I stillw onder though, I have no idea about total/free resources on tpro2, yet with ~280MB free ram, and only 15mb worth of applications in ram loaded subsequently, how can windows mobile "decide" it needs to close either one of them?

I'd like to think it was just something weird going on with that particular session, that maybe got solved after a reboot, yet I have mno way to confirm it, as I didn't need to load the same amount of applications since then
[Windows Mobile Software Development] aussiebum:
I actually have the opposite problem on my HD2 running Miri's roms -apps don't close themselves down at all most of the time, which means when I have about 5 "windows" worth of programs open (ignoring other stuff I have running as a processes), or 1 Opera Mobile 10 window my HD2 starts behaving weird and gives me errors everytime I try to start up another app unless I shutdown said memory intensive app.

Might be because I use Ameba to close down any apps I'm not using (always)... or maybe because I've set the glyph cache to 524kb like suggested in the HD2 tweak article on Pocketnow.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Farmer Ted:
The storage manager doesn't necessarily decide to close things based on free program memory (of which you clearly have a ton), but also based on free virtual memory. You only get 32 MB per process, and if you load a bunch of dll's for resource heavy applications, you can run low on virtual memory. This is a good read on the issue. You can run virtualmemory.exe with some of your apps running to see if this is the problem.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] SiL3nTKiLL:
def bookmarking this thread! i had similar questions!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I'd actually LOVE to have your same "problem" :D

Since WM is all about "having control", at least more than what you get with other "commercial" phones, I would prefer very much to decide which apps to keep open, which ones to *manually* close to free resources.

Just like I do with my desktop pc (did, actually... since 4GB of ram are truly hard, for my use, to fill up to the critical point even starting a ton of programs at the same time)

thank you for the enlightening reference, I was actually curious to know the real reason behind this! ;)

EDIT: (some minutes later) really interesting read, even without the need to dive into the huge two-page article linked from that page. Now at least I *know* the cause of this, and regarding this Leo I feel like having bought a ferrari which can only be fueled with a second grade combustive which can only output 50HP when in reality the engine is capable of 200. Something which is the contrary of what I was expecting from a WM device when compared to its fashion and more commercial equivalent so dear to some.

Which leads me to be curious about aussiebum's situation, where instead he appears to be able to keep opening programs without any automatic-close behaviours. It may still very well be that in the occasion where I had autoclosing problems with only a handful of apps open and running, there was something gone wrong that was solved with a reboot, I have yet to find the time and willingness to recreate the setup :p
[Windows Mobile Software Development] j4n87:
so there wont be any solution for this quite anoying bug/feature?

-.-
[Windows Mobile Software Development] tobiascrystal:
HD2

I have a stock TMOUS HD2 and it seems to have a max open programs set to 7 somewhere and it doesnt matter how memory intensive the program is. it does get mighty slow though!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Chainfire:
Have any of you tried AutoClosePatch ? I made that for a similar problem on the Omnia II, I have heard of people using it on the HD2 with success (i.e., it being useful). I've never really run into this problem on the HD2 itself, though.

http://www.chainfire.eu/articles/68/AutoClosePatch_1_1_released/
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
Thank you for pointing us to yet another pearl of usefulness of your code ;)

I will test it and I think I should be able to report the result in at least a week.

If the 15MB lower limit and 20MB upper limit do work on Leo as well, I think I will be able to start more applications together than I will ever need :D

EDIT: didn't make my leo explode, yet it didn't have the desired effect, alas. I could apparently keep starting apps one after another, then at a certain point I always got a system error notification about not being there enough free ram, and that for anything I tried starting no matter what it was, not even WM task manager. Even if I tried bringing back on top the already started apps by clicking on their icons gave the same error.

I uninstalled, restarted, and tried without it, and set battclock showing the free MBs of ram available. Well, after boot I have 270MB free, believe me or not I couldn't get lower than 214MB free, it kept closing down applications. That is just plain, utterly, abominously, scandalously STUPID.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] j4n87:
Gonna try this to...hope with more sucess.

>edit< ....unbelievable. IT WORKS...was searching months for a working app/tweak. Thanks chainfire...Donation is coming (=

--> 6MC52681G3154311A
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Davearia:
I might have managed to get my HTC HD2 from closing my application. I have downloaded Advanced Configuration Tool There is a section in this application called HTC Task Manager. In there I disabled Auto Kill. Only time will tell I guess.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] j4n87:
Restored a backup, to ensure that chainfires tweaks arent present.

Ure way didn't work for me.

After the 6th and 7th opend app, taskfacade & than s2p closes.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Ham3r:
Test that:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem]

"ProgramMem"=dword:0
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
dang, you were luckier than me.

How did you test it exactly? Up until what free ram amount could you go to?

As I said in my previous post, I can apparently open as many apps as I want until the point I get the system insufficient memory error, and once there I cannot start anything at all, not even a task manager
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I don't even have that key... so I suppose it's not for leo's purpose
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Chainfire:
Well, you have to keep in mind, AutoClosePatch only helps when the problem is actually the free memory.

An explanation what may also be going on is here: http://www.modaco.com/content/i8000...ying-the-virtual-memory-monster/#entry1250151

What is comes down to is that the _virtual_ memory management may run into "no available memory" even though there is more than enough _actual_ memory available, and can be dependant on the amount of DLLs and executables loaded. It is a tricky subject to fully understand, but there are a myriad of reasons why this error can occur (and AutoClosePatch only fixes one, that nevertheless is often the problem). Most of these "other" reasons are due to how WM (or our base version of CE, rather) is built. Most of these issues are fixed in later versions, of course (we are now two revisions of CE farther), but unfortunately we won't see that until WP7, which, well....
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
whoops, yes, silly me; thanks for reminding me of that fact, I actually have delved a little into the problem of 32mb virtual memory limit under CE 5 core, which alas is the base for 6.5.x as well (and which is a different matter than "free ram"), and for an optimistic while I thought your utility could overcome that, forgetting you clearly stated in your blog that it addresses only the free physical ram issue.

But since I get auto-closing problems starting from more than 210MB *free* ram, it's definitely a virtual memory issue, so technically your patch doesn't interfere with that.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] :
mhhh, after starting about 12 apps with 40% memory left my leo crashes too...but it fixed my problem so far that wm didnt close the first started appsanymore after starting 5 to 6 memory eating apps...so my taskmanager and s2p crashes many times...quite annoying.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
40% free as in... 230MB free?

You're about in my same position then. What's the lowest free MB ram you can get to? I know it can't really be compared since the problem is not really free ram but fre virtual memory... it's just out of curiosity
[Windows Mobile Software Development] :
after restart ive got 61 % memory left on a 576 mb enabled rom with some custom apps in autostart. after a hardreset ive got 64/63 left...when iam right...also when its only the virtual memory, i think chains workaround i a quite good improovement...in reality i think u dont have more than 6/7 programms open...okayh could happen, that u forget to close several programmsh but thats another topic...ive got no problems with that. using close on x or end my apps always with LMT close gesture
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Farmer Ted:
It's just a guess, but some of you having problems may have large file system caches. If they're too big (> 8 MB for the datacache), then you could get system instability. This is what the file system virtual memory looks like with a large datacache (I think it was 6 MB; fat cache was around 2 MB).

​

If the cache is huge, then any app that loads big dll's could cause a crunch with slot 2 (filesys.exe). This would probably only happen on cooked roms; I doubt stock ones would have the cache set too big. The cache value can only be set prior to cooking the rom, so changing it with a reg editor won't help.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] :
could you tell us where to look up these values? (:
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Farmer Ted:
It depends on how the caching is set, but you can have datacache, fatcache and bitmapcache values in either HKLM\System\StorageManager\FATFS or HKLM\System\StorageManager\Profiles\Flashdrv\FATFS. I'm not sure, it may not be called Flashdrv on the HD2, but there will be cache settings under one of the profiles (also maybe sd memory, but those are usually small).

Edit: I attached virtualmemory.exe. You can run some heavy apps and then run this to see if anything funky is going on. Just put the .exe wherever you want and then run it from a file explorer (or create a start shortcut).
[Windows Mobile Software Development] emy_77:
This is a very informative thread, although, I think I found it a bit too late. I had Samsung SGH-i600 (WM 6 standard), which had only 64mb RAM. It annoyed me that after every 5 apps or so are open (less if more memory-intensive apps, like Opera or Coreplayer are opened), it started closing the earlier-opened apps. So, I upgraded to Samsung B7330 with 256mb RAM thinking the bigger RAM could solve this problem, but to my horror, I realized, it only maxes at 8 to 10 apps, and with 90mb RAM left (fresh-after-boot RAM is 110mb RAM). So i googled & found this thread. The article Farmer Ted linked to at codeproject explains why this happens. It's depressing to know that there is no solution for this for us WM6 users as the virtual memory culprit can only be solved with WM7. I read sometime back that Palm Pre can open 50apps at the same time, & dreamt that with a bigger-RAM phone, I can do the same on a WM phone. Guess that's not gonna happen with my Samsung B7330 :(
[Windows Mobile Software Development] christophocles:
You guys are saying you have 230 MB of RAM free after boot, and such.... What type of ROM are you guys running, and what type of device?? I am thinking the ROM you are running must be _extremely_ lightweight, or you are reading the wrong number for free RAM... I have run sense 2.1 and sense 2.5 roms on my TP2CDMA, and I never have more than about 60-70mb of ram _free_. The actual total amount of physical ram in a TP2 is 280MB. I read the amount of free RAM in XTask.

Also, the amount of free RAM decreases over time after rebooting the phone, regardless of what apps are running. After several hours I have 20 MB free and there is no way to increase that other than by soft-resetting again. Something must have a bad memory leak, I guess... How would I go about finding and fixing that problem?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
"unlocked" leo has a total of 576mb of ram, more than double of yours, so the difference is pretty normal ;) just do the math

anyway, as long as you softreset, the amounf of free ram after boot does *not* decrease, unless before the softreset you added something to the startup programs... no reason otherwise for the ram to decrease after a fresh start
[Windows Mobile Software Development] christophocles:
Holy *** chainfire, you fixed it!! Great work!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] christophocles:
OK, that makes sense... Leo has a huge amount of RAM so this definitely should not be an issue for you :D

As far as the free RAM decreasing, that's just what happens for me. After a fresh start and app startup apps finish loading, I have about 55mb free. If I go back and check 4 hours later, it usually reads around 20-30mb, with no additional apps running. Something slowly eats my RAM over time and I don't know what is doing it. Perhaps S2U2?? I don't know.

But I loaded the chainfire mod referred to earlier in this thread and it seems to have fixed all my problems. (well, except for the memory leak, I will give it some time and see if that is still an issue).
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
anyway, if that helps anything, I forgot to specify this little but maybe not secondary detail: I started getting these autoclosed apps problems only after I flashed a rom based on last build of WM 6.5.5, with previous roms by the same chef based on WM 6.5 I never noticed anything like it, or at least it never happened that the phonecall recorded, to say one, closed by itself, while now it happens with the normal usage (max 3-4 small apps open together)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] :
I'am on 6.5 and have this problem after open more than 6-7 small apps,

4-5 when I start a memory intensive app like a navigation app.

But of course it is rom specific how much virtual memory is available an left for apps!?!? So I think there is a difference between Energys and Duttys Roms.

Duttys roms (I'm using HG 4.3) are tweaked for performance and speed, in contrast to perhaps energys roms.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I see, hoping then that it not related to WM build... I do count on losing this defaillance when I get the fancy of flashing the latest 6.5.5 version of my rom. Right now I don't really feel like it :p
[General Topics] qingcao:
Currently, the snooze interval of the manila alarm is 5 mins, does anybody know how to change this number? registry/file/settings?:confused:

thx in advance.

I know there are many great alarm apps like G-Alarm, quick alarm, but I'd like to use the build-in alarm to save the memory cost.
[General Topics] Bulldog:
You can go use MS reminder option which gives you more snooze choices.

to do so (backup your device)Try changing it manually :

HKLM/System/Shell/Notification/OEM

Rename the String "CustomUIDLL" to what ever you like.. i.e "XXXXCustomUIDLLXXX"

Then:

Change the String value of

HKLM/System/Shell/Notification/OEM/UseDefaultUI from "0" to "1"

After that soft rest your device.
[General Topics] jaliscojorge:
snooze alarm

I used a cab on my diamond from I believe the name was crack whore. I will try to upload the cab if you want to try it.
[HD2 General] alexnvidia:
for those potential t-mobile uk HD2 buyers, or those who are looking for insurance, DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT get fonesafe. they are nothing but a bunch of CONS!

took 8.99 Pounds out of my account every month to cover for my HD2, told me phones are replaced within 48hours in their policy. ALL LIES!

i lost my phone on friday, called them up on saturday to report, they told me the claim form will be emailed to me in 5-10minutes. i waited like 1 hour, nothing. called them back, second rep told me will be despatched within 2-3 hours. waited till 5pm when they close and still nothing. come monday, waited till lunch hour, still nothing. had to call them up again, twice, just to get them to email me the claim form.

when i finally got the form, to my surprise, it was empty despite having reported and logged my case on saturday, and i was told just to sign and fax over the form. got conned again. so i filled up the form, faxed it over immediately on monday afternoon, called them on tuesday afternoon, and guess what? they told me they have not received my claim form.

i rushed over to t-mobile store where i faxed it, the manager assured me the form was faxed yesterday. call fonesafe again, now they told me they have it and it would take 3-5 working days to process it! their policy clearly states that 48hours is all they need to get a phone despatched! this is a major CON!

until today, i have not heard from them, and it's been 3 days now. i called them up again this morning, same crap they told me 3-5 working days. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE SERVICE! i even have to pay for a SIM card replacement myself, which is 10 pounds, not to mention the 30 pounds charge if they ever decide to send me a phone.

i have done everything for them, reported my case to police, provided them with every bit of info they need, and still the process takes that long! talked to my co-workers about this, they said they never had problems with O2 or Vodafone. one day and a police report is all they give, and the phone is despatched the very next day--all done within 48 hours or less. no hassles of faxing, calling them up 6-7 times just to get a blank claim form and not to mention spending more than 20 pounds calling on phone credit. RUBBISH!

can UK users please recommend a good insurance company for me to insure my hd2? i cant trust fonesafe anymore, NEVER EVER.
[HD2 General] BruTaL_BeN:
I dropped my phone in the toilet a month or so ago and I had my HD2 replaced within 5 days, and it only took that long because no stores had one in stock! I thought Fonesafe did a great job and I'd recommend them to anyone. Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience.
[HD2 General] cgrec92:
I think its disgusting how we're treated by these companies, they're all based on lies you can't trust anything they say

do these people have an address? if i were you I'd go there and kick ass until you get what you've paid for, keep us updated
[HD2 General] fred_up:
Why not put the £8.99 monthly fee in a bank savings account? If you do that for all these extended warranties (ie TV/washing machine/etc). Then if something fails/gets lost/flushed down the toilet then you can draw from the savings account.

The vast amount of these policy premiums pays commission, salaries and huge profits for these warranty/insurance companies.
[HD2 General] DN41:
sorry but how can the hd2 fall into the toilet? :D

i cant understand ^^

DN41
[HD2 General] BruTaL_BeN:
Alcohol + 5am + Checking where my taxi home is while in the toilet = Bad times
[HD2 General] DN41:
uh yeah :D

not really nice...

and this i why i'm gonna leave my hd2 at home when i go to parties.

i just grab my moto c121 and nothing will go wrong :P

DN41