yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] TheGoD:
Hi there, this post is basically dedicated to current users of windows mobile, who bought their phone because of the virtues an open plattform offers. People like us aren't happy with the direction ms is heading with windows phone 7 and hope that the realize their wrong doing by reimplanting things like multitasking, deep-customization, file-system access, native coding or simply copy, cut and paste.

But why should we buy a windows phone 7 device and hope they transform it to something that resembles wm6 offer time when we could just switch to another plattform?

I mean...

- booth the devices we own and the software we use are not compatible to wp7.

- Android basically got every of the above features wp7 is lagging.

- Android devices are aviable or will be released from every major windows mobile manufacture.

- A lot of software studios will produce for Android.

- Through the ndk Google offers there will probably be more windows mobile software on Android than on windows phone in a year from now.

The only thing wp7 got IMO is the ui, and as we all know from endless debates with the iphone-guys ui is a matter of taste and can be ported...
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
If you're not a Google or Java hater and Android does what you need... don't hesitate.

Android is good. I'm right now playing with an older Android phone, and although it is very slow (old QCOM processor) and has a small screen, I find the experience to be better than the experience I have with my HD2.

I don't have the slightest doubt anymore that Android is better than iPhone OS or WP7S.

It's smooth.

It has a great, flexible home screen (who needs tiles when you got widgets?).

It has by far the best solution for notifications.

It multitasks.

It has a Marketplace and allows you to side-load apps.

It allows you to access the file system.

It copies and pastes.

It has an NDK.

It is available right now and only getting better.

What you don't get is integration with Microsoft's services, like Windows Live and XBox Live. Of course, there's a good chance that you don't care about them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
I've never used an iPhone but I've dabbled in Android for a while. Mostly, through the Poly port for Kaiser. Here's my views on WM6.5 vs Android.

Windows Mobile GOOD

#1 WM5 sucked. Very unstable, and scrolling speed is very slow. WM6 wasn't much different. WM6.1 become stable, but speed still suffers. WM6.5 very stable, but speed suffers. WM6.5.3 is very stable, and the speed is very fast, including scrolling.

#2 True freedom. You have 3 ways to install applications, and the choice for it to be on the SD card or internal memory. Copy and Paste, and all that jazz.

#3 Customization! Like Mc Donald's says, have it your way.

#4 Huge selection of apps.

Windows Mobile BAD

#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.

#2 Only way to upgrade OS is through custom built roms on XDA-Developers. No support from MS, HTC, and etc.

#3 Majority of applications were written in 2003, and have since been abandoned.

#4 With Phone7 coming soon, developers will completely abandon WM6.5, and move onto Phone 7.

Android GOOD

#1 Based on Linux, which means lots of community support.

#2 Already has an established amount of useful applications.

#3 Very customizable. I've seen some impressive 3D stuff.

#4 You can install applications from the SD card.

#5 Copy and paste exists.

Android BAD

#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.

#2 Very reliant on a internet connection to do a lot of things.

#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.

#4 Google might try to take away the "Google" experience from rom cookers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?

Not anymore, afaik.

That's even more true for Android.

But this is not WM6.5 vs. Android. WM6.5 is doomed, so the time will come when you have to switch.

WP7S is not worth waiting for, it's just an iPhone OS clone. So, in my opinion, there's no reason not to switch now, if you want to.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
I mean the built in Nav software, which the new one is pretty cool. I could use Ndrive, but I really like the built in Nav.

Maybe it's because I'm using a port for the HTC Kaiser. If that's the case, that can be scratched off the list.

Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.

It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass. Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.

Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.

iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.

Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in? :confused:

MS deserved it.

It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now? Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.

This is smart business. Use your existing successes to build a customer base. All smart companies do this...even Google.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
Gmail

Google Map

Chrome Web Broswer

Google voice

YouTube

All this is offered for free.

This world.

If you added IE6+IE7+IE8, then you can say it's more popular then FireFox. You have to wonder, if people are still using IE6 then it's most likely they probably don't know about other web browsers, or don't even know what one is. You know the type, logs on twitter, facebook, and myspace and uses AIM to chat to people.

No more then Windows Mobile will have. We'll soon have legacy Windows Mobile 6.5, and Phone 7. Neither are compatible.

Not sure about Windows Phone 7, but iPhone has it horrible right now.

No porn apps

No emulators

No web browsers

No flash support

Android may not have as many pull my finger apps or farting apps as iPhone, but at least we can have all of the above. iPhone and Phone7 owners will be able to have 100 different choices of how to make fart noises from their phone, while I'll be able to view flash websites. While iPhone and Phone7 will enjoy half ass made games for their phones, eventually Android will get a Playstation and N64 emulator. I consider any Genesis or SNES game to be far superior then any 3D accelerated game they can put on those phones as is.

The biggest blunder from Apple was them pulling the porn apps. Everyone knows the internet and DVDs became popular due to porn. Enforcing that rule is sure suicide, despite the horrible image of me walking into a public bathroom and finding someone wacking off to porn on their Android phone.

When Mozilla ports FireFox to Android, I'll be able to use ABP and NoScript to have a truly secure surfing experience. While IE on Phone7 fails horribly on the Acid3 test. As it is IE9 gets a 55/100 on Acid3.

Just from what I've mentioned I say there's plenty of incentive to go with an open OS. Jail break your iPhone or **** break your Phone7, but you'll be in this endless battle between Microsoft or Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?

YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.

Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
I love WM 6.5.3 and right now my phone (TD2) is just perfect the way it is. And if someday I want something to change then I can just flash a new ROM, install a cab or write another tool on my own.

I hate Android because your applications are running in a Java VM and you can't access the OS kernel functions like you can with WM.

Though yesterday I just for fun run Android on a Touch Diamond. I have to admit the UI is really nice done, even though it isn't THAT MUCH different compared to the user experience you get with 6.5.3. Some window animations here and there and I love it like you can pull down the taskbar and I like the multiple homescreen thing. Though I couldn't do a lot of things with it because for most things it needed a data connection (I didn't plug in a SIM card) and USB/WiFi didn't work. Also it asked me to sign up for Google account all the time. On 6.5.3 on the other hand some things are quite better implemented, for example start menu or Sense. I also like it that you can reach all functions through your touch screen. On Android you're always forced to use the hard keys to close a window or get out of an app. After all I wonder if it's possible to hack into the taskbar or bottom bar like I do on WM but due to Java VM environment I doubt you can do that.

After all, right now there's no reason why I should switch to Android. However I don't know what the situation will be in the next 1-2 years. So in the end all I can say: On the longer run it might be the only OS able to replace 6.5.3 in the future but right now it's just too limited for my taste (in other words I can also say it doesn't give me enough features to forget about some limits). But I definitely keep an eye on it ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
+100

Thanks Vangrieg, you beat me to it :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
It is success, even though the way to reach it is.... strange!?

But are Microsoft doing any better? They're just buying off companies if they need a new feature.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
[Windows Phone 7 General] YongkiCA:
xda-developers provide a lot of free stuff, are they losers too? I don't think so :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
XDA is not a business, we're here for fun. Oh, and one little nuance, XDA doesn't have 20 billion dollars to burn and can't put an ad on every freakin' web site out there.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Shasarak:
That's not a deficiency of Windows Mobile, it's a deficiency of phones manufactured by HTC. Users of the Toshiba TG01 and Acer neoTouch are very happy with their 3D support, and indeed with their hardware-accelerated video playback of virtually any codec and wrapper format.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Actually, if you carefully listen to what Google execs say, it's not working for them. They are very nervous. I agree that one of the key problems is that they just started to diversify. They are doing too many mistakes though which are relatively easy to avoid. It's actually a funny phenomenon you can often see in companies driven by engineers because they're so into technologies and inventions and such that they just can't resist pushing their cool new things out the door. Google is in fact a lot like Microsoft, only less mature and disciplined, in this regard. A contrast to this approach is Apple where hardly anyone ever sees a beta product, and the company is incredibly focused.

Apart from product development, there's one more thing where Google doesn't have a lot of experience, and that's partnering with others. Jobs once said that he absolutely admires Gates's abilities in this regard, saying that in fact, with all the spats, fan base animosity, tensions and all, Microsoft is the only long-term partner Apple has had through all these years, and the partnership works amazingly well for both parties. He even noted that MS is the second largest developer of software for Apple products after Apple. :) Google has a long way to learn how to maze through all these issues and make lasting relationships. It's one thing to attract everyone with a free product and give OEMs better bargaining position against Microsoft with a mobile OS, it's a totally different thing to carry it on to market leadership with so many conflicting interests and challenges.

Sure OEMs flirt with open source OSes, IBMs and HPs of the world are investing a lot of resources into Linux development and all, but at the end of the day which OS shows up as "recommended" on their web sites? Sure HTC is all about Android, Open Handset Alliance and all that PR stuff these days, but what does its CEO say when asked why HD2 was a WM device? "We have to take care of Windows Mobile first".
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
This is not going to happen.

Contrary to what some people believe, "fragmentation" does not hurt Android much and it's not what made Windows Mobile die.

Windows Mobile died, because it got zero support from Microsoft over many years. There was no money and no developers. They could easily have made it competitive to the iPhone within a year. But they didn't. It took them one and a half years to even figure out what to do and end all the internal battles, which is an eternity in the mobile space.

Google stand behind their mobile OS and you can be sure that they will fix any problems that emerge. If fragmentation becomes too much of an issue, they'll fix it. If the UI gets outdated, they'll fix it. Microsoft didn't fix anything.

And aside from that, it will take Windows Phone 7 at least another year, to even become an option. Handsets must be launched, bugs will have to be fixed and the Marketplace has to be filled. Only then will it be competitive, if ever.

That's plenty of time before you can even consider Windows Phone 7, thus switching to Android now is not wasted money.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
How can you compare this?

A lot of what Google has done the last 10 years is based on what MS and others made possible the first 10 years.

It's like saying that Ferrari has accomplished more then Ford because they have made better and faster cars the last 10 years then Ford did the first 10.

Ferrari might not have existed today if their wasn't someone that made engines and wheels before them.

Android is the first (open source) Linux OS that has been sold on a device. although you call it open source it's not more open the WM or iPhone.

Google is controlling the development of the OS and anyone can make applications for it.. whats the difference now between android, WM or iPhone? and witch one of them is most open source? all of them have the same. A company that develops the OS and developers making the apps.

I only see MS going less open source with WP7.

and to not having porn apps and other stuff on iPhone well jailbreak and you have it.

Now some will say you can't do anything without jailbraking an iphone. Well without Hard spl you are also kind of sucked on WM.

Android has already several updates and can't be run by all older devices.

WM also have a few updates but a wizard that is quite an old device can run WM 6.5.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
WM is doomed.

iPhone is lacking, both hardware and software.

WP7S is a clone of iPhone OS.

Android has all the features, comes on great hardware and has lots of people developing for it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
Agreeeed! Microsoft started to let it die after WM 5. The only drastic changes from 6.0/6.1 era came from HTC when they introduced TF3D and started to fix more and more parts of the stoneage UI. Only recently did Microsoft themselves improve their look and feel with 6.5.3 and this release isn't even out officially.

Anyway, right now I see absolutely no reason to switch from 6.5.3 to Android because there's nothing in Android which I can't do with WM. The only advantage I see right now might be the marketplace which is a complete joke on Microsoft's side. But I'm personally not that much of an app collector so it's not really that much of an issue for me....
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Of course. You don't have to buy a new phone when you're satisfied with the one you have.

There's always new, better stuff coming out.

At some point, however, you'll have to switch, cause WM is dying. If you're not satisfied with what you have now, there's really no reason not to switch right now.

WM6.5.3 is really not bad. It shows how easily Microsoft could have made WM competitive. WM6.5.3 could have been released in early 2008, with WM7 following in late 2008 or early 2009.

But they simply did nothing at all, until late 2008, when they started to develop WP7S. And they threw away everything that was good about WM and made an iPhone clone. It's a shame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
It should be Microsoft's concern to push quality standards on their OS, which they're going to enforce in Phone7. Sure it was HTC who decided to go cheap on 3D support, but it should be Microsoft who should stop them. It diminishes the user experience, and the overall perception of Windows Mobile.

Look what happened to Vista. Microsoft pushed it out the door, but drivers were a total mess. There was either no drivers or buggy drivers. It gave Vista such a bad name that Microsoft had to release Windows 7, which is mostly Vista.

There has to be some quality control over Windows Mobile, except that Phone7 is going too far. For example, the lack of UI customization on Phone7 is due quality control.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
well yes true. but what also is true is that WM7 will come on grate hardware and might also get lost of developers(well it is MS after all)

iPhone 4 is predicted to come soon and also has lots of developers.

Android is grate for sure and by what I've seen running android on my Wm htc devices it also looks like an iphone clone in many places.

I'm not saying that android is bad in anyway I'm just saying tha Android is not the F1 of all phones.

For most people a Nokia 1208 is enough

To be honest.. do you realy need to know when you are walking down the street (by looking at you phone) that is sunny and 30 degrees Celsius. or that you friend on facebook went to bed at 1 O'Clock last night? this information is in most cases worth as much as a farting phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
Yes, exactly!

They shouldn't have stopped them! They should have provided 3D support by themselves! But instead they went on sleeping pills after WM 5 and now HTC are the idiots to blame for?
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
WP7S and iPhone are both very limited.

Maybe they can do enough for most people. But does it matter what most people do? No, not at all. For me, like probably almost everyone in this forum, iPhone OS and WP7S are too limited.

And no, Android is not at all an iPhone clone. It combines the ease of use of the iPhone with many many more features, like multitasking, file system access etc. - in other words: Unlike the iPhone, Android is not locked down.

WP7S really is an iPhone clone. It also doesn't multitask, it also does not allow you to access the file system, it does not allow storage cards, it does not allow applications outside the Marketplace etc.

Microsoft threw away everything that was good about Windows Mobile and made an iPhone clone.

Android is the only one among them that's open (not only open source, but also open in the sense that it allows you to install applications from outside the Marketplace, it has multitasking, it allows you do modify the system, use you phone as USB storage, access and manage files on your phone and so on - all things that WP7S and iPhone don't allow). You can hardly call that an iPhone clone. In fact, Android is the only one among those three that's different.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Of course it does. It already has crappy slow underpowered devices and I see fairly disappointed customers around me who blame it on the OS (familiar story). It already has Motoblur crap on it that'll be a drag on Motorola devices and therefore will hurt the OS image. It already has devices with and without multitouch which I personally don't give a damn about and never use, but it'll hurt game market there. It's already something like a black box because you don't know in advance what functionality it will or will not have out of the box (and afterwards) - I'm talking about Exchange primarily, but there are other areas as well I'm sure, and more will come. Problems with multimedia playback are built-in because it doesn't have good codec support, so it'll be up to OEMs whether they want to provide it or not (been there, haven't we?). It already has functionality like Google Earth and what not that appeared in 2.1 but isn't available for the overwhelming majority of devices because, despite OTA updates, they are modified so much that you still have to rely on OEM to get it (what was the name of the OS that had this problem?). It already have device(s) with 1GHz CPUs that for inexplicable reasons show sudden slowdowns and you can wait for quite a while for a menu to open. And it's what, 2 years old?

One may argue of course that for "power users" it's not that big of a deal because there's third-party software and because we investigate things thoroughly before purchasing etc. Sure, kind of, apart from drivers and codecs and such stuff it was something we could hack around. But many of us are pretty happy with WM, so we're not much of an indication of a platform's appeal to the market.