yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] burnblue:
Why not switch to Android? Because Microsof is offering an ecosystem that is appealing to me and is not available on Android. Office with MyPhone backup/sync, and Zune w/ Zune Pass.. they already secure my purchase even with all the crippling.

Right now on my Fuze I'm running default NRG WM.5.3 with no Sense, just regular old titanium.. and I'm also running XDAndroid. I barely ever go into Androind and I just prefer the WM experience. Android is cool, but this Linuxy OS just has failed to appeal to me in the way I think a modern OS should.. 7Series is no beauty queen either but thought was put into its aesthetics and I have a feeling it's going to work very well.

Bottom line: People buy their phones to fulfill certain tasks in their lives. We want the ability to customize; we don't expect a necessity to tinker and hack until we get the phone doing what we like. So while tweaking is fun (it's why XDA exists) Android the 'open source' OS is less suited for what many people want in their modern phone than what Microsoft is aiming to provide with 7 Series
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
I'll stop answering now because you quote me wrong every time
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
An alternative is to just wait it out. If you buy now, it would be like if you bought VHS or Betamax/HD DVD or Blu Ray when they were fighting it out. We're at that kind of stage, it's volatile and rapidly changing. Not to say that we'll just have one mobile OS, but we will have one major market leader. A study I read suggested that only about 25% of the people that will own a smartphone over the next 10 years, actually owns one now. So this is far from "decided".

But I guess if someone really needed something to last the next 2 years...WM 6.5, Android, and iPhone OS would take care of most of their needs. WM 6.5 is less appealing since the support seems to be disappearing. But I think it's current support will make for a good experience for the next 1 or 2 years.

That said, I'm kind of in the same boat, my phone is 3 years old now (actually is holding up pretty well since I overclocked it recently). I thought I'd just wait for a good tegra + wm device a year or 2 ago, but that decision has proven to be a bad one with how this is all shaping up. Android would have me if it wasn't for Google's persistence that I have to make a google account and things like that. I'm not a fan of what google does with all this data they gather of personal usage.

Phones in general seem to be moving away from what I actually want my mobile device to do. I really want more of a Pocket PC that can make calls, with a nice touch based UI, stylus (preferably multitouch resisitive), and physical keyboard. So it looks like the n900 would fit that the best, but I can't really get one.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
......you can check in any time you want, but

.... you can never leave.....

This world of information is becoming nasty.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
personal opinion here

The more I've read and researched I want an iPhone over any other phone on the marked.

I will not say to anyone that they should switch but I don't see a reason not to
[Windows Phone 7 General] apreichner:
I'm not thinking Android is going to kick the bucket, and I'm definitely thinking it will do better than WP7. To me, WP7 looks like another Zune... It looks and works pretty well, but I'm not thinking it will make a huge splash. Plus, what happens to all of the Mac and Linux users who buy one? Will they be SOL because they have no Zune software?

Also consider that 70 percent of iphone developers plan to create Android apps, at the same time, Mozilla even ditched Microsoft's mobile OS.

Android market share has been steadily rising while iPhone and Blackberry are steadily declining, and all of the carriers are starting to put their chips in for Android. As for the different variety of versions... I don't think it's really a big deal at all. All of the current 1.5 phones are going to get upgraded to 2.1, and there's a fairly good chances the older ones will too, but even if they don't most applications are cross compatible between 1.5-2.1, the ones that aren't are cross compatible from 1.6-2.1 (ie Google Maps with Nav). And there's no way Google can punish custom ROM cookers, because the only thing that separates a rooted phone from one of their own Engineering Dev Phones they sell is really the name on the box. If they try to punish root users, they will end up hurting their own devs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Excuse me?
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
This is a Windows world. Who cares about MacOS and Linux? Mac users can already run Windows software anyway.

Oh no, not Mozilla! :eek:

Please don't leave us Mozilla, what will we do without you? :rolleyes:

From what I read, the Android app community sucks pretty bad right now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] apreichner:
I'm just pointing out why Zune market share is in the toilet.

That was just one example, how many apps do you see running on the Zune HD? It's going to be just like that.

http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/learningcenter/zuneplayers/whattodo/hdapps.htm

Well they've got like 15 apps for the Zune HD. I guess that's good enough for most users. Except Windows Phone wont even have Maps or anything, so you can have GPS, but you wont be able to use it until Bing decides to make an app.

http://www.neowin.net/news/mozilla-drops-firefox-development-for-windows-mobile-and-phone-7

Lol... keep reading, and maybe try it out. Although I went from Winmo to Android, and the winmo app community sucked even worse. Sure they have more apps spread out over a million websites, but a lot of them really suck, and a good amount of them are just there to do things the operating system couldn't do itself. (ie: be user friendly, or MMS) How many apps run on the iPhone store? like 80,000. Android has like 30-40,000. So if 70 percent of iPhone developers PLAN on making Android apps, and haven't already... That would put Android app store above iTunes.

http://www.neowin.net/news/over-70-of-iphone-developers-are-planning-android-apps

http://www.neowin.net/news/android-growing-insanely-fast-other-platforms-not-so-much

My mistake, Apple and RIM are still rising a little bit, but not nearly as well as Android. And Microsoft is further going into the toilet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Android appears to be rising faster because it is much smaller (the percenages are deceptive). It is far off from catching either of the fruity phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] burnblue:
What?

Microsoft threw an SDK, free tools, an API and Marketplace details at a developer conference for Windows Phone. The partners are already lined up. How do you compare the Zune HD to that? Yeah, let's believe that we will only have 15 apps on 7 Series

and we already have Bing Maps on 7 Series, plus developers get to make additional map apps. No idea what you're trying to say.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I personally don't doubt it'll have thousands of apps in a rather short time. What I'm worried about is that I don't see how anything apart from fart apps and pseudo-apps (books/videos, and clients for specific websites) can be done using the developer tools and SDK provided. Silverlight is cool for UI stuff but it's horribly lacking in everything else. It's a crippled version of already crippled .Net CF. Frankly, I was quite shocked when I looked a little closer. In terms of opportunities for development, WP7 is close to a website on shared hosting, just with flash.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Given that the OS is fairly locked down (no file explorer, no use for task managers, etc), what kind of apps are you looking to make? Silverlight is good for rapid development of apps focused heavily on business logic, so it's not just silly fart applications.

I doubt that you alone will make something the size of a web-browser and really have a need for the NDK. So most solo/small-team developers would be best served using Silverlight to be more productive and focus on the user experience over optimization through native-code.

Hypothetically, wp7 should evolve, I highly doubt MS wants to spit in the face of big business since it's a important constituent for them. Although...from a business standpoint I am turned off by what I've seen of wp7 so far, but I don't know much about how wp7 expects to cater to enterprise solutions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Here's a quick list of what's not possible in WP7 (according to what I see, which may be wrong, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong):

ICQ, IRC, ftp, bittorrent clients due to http-only internet APIs

Anything related to contact/calendar/tasks enhancements (no access to Outlook database). This actually sucks twice because there's no trace of Tasks in the system (yet?), and there won't be a third-party solution to compensate for that

No remote desktop/ssh software (http only, remember?)

Absolutely nothing that would be based on system notifications in background (i.e. last.fm client)

Absolutely nothing that will launch notifications any way apart from via push (which requires internet access and, for a second, a back-end server that will execute the business logic)

Absolutely nothing that would enhance messaging and calling functions (call filters, sms filters, sms processing to, for example, delete something on a stolen phone or do something else)

No OBEX and other enhancements (I doubt we'll even get file transfer via bluetooth as there's nothing in the OS to select where to put files, but still)

Enough to give you an idea, I think. There's much more, in fact.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Actually, native code will be needed to do anything listed above, you'll need it even for the most trivial tasks because of how limited Silverlight is. Unfortunately, it seems that it won't solve the problem becaues there's no UI framework for native apps and you can't hook into SL with native stuff either.

I'm sure it will evolve. I think that the problem isn't with MS policies or some long-term decisions in this regard. I suspect that the problem is simply that Silverlight 4 isn't ready or can't be ported for some reasons, thus we get stuff that was initially made for web. As regards native code, they got rid of GDI, which is good, and they would lose all the eyecandy/accelerated UI smoothness if they didn't, but didn't have anything ready to replace it with (WPF or that mythical IRIS). So no, it's not all doom and gloom, and what's available is enough to populate the marketplace with stuff that's expected by 90% of users and that populates the Appstore and the Market, but I'm afraid that for me it means no WP7 in its v1 incarnation.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Meebo works just fine as a web client, I don't see an issue with chat software. I actually see them being greatly improved through silverlight. ftp and bittorrent is of course a no with no filesystem.

Something to tackle this has to be in the pipeline, that's business dev use 101.

Yea, it's sad to see some of those features go, especially since some of those were used by businesses. I'm sure some will be back like remote desktop and such. But there are still plenty of apps that silverlight can currently enhance.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I don't see what a crippled version of .Net CF can enhance. Apart from UI of course, which is very important, but not everything.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Why not wait until the OS is more complete? I've seen in several videos where it's mentioned everything is not working yet. We haven't even seen office working yet. As a matter of fact, how many full apps have we seen working yet?

I think too many judgements are being made too soon.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Oh, I'm just judging what I see. I know it may become very different and much more powerful, but it's not there yet, and I don't think it will be at the time of release. Maybe next Christmas we'll see a really worthy WP7. I hope, at least.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Development is all about what you can accomplish in a certain amount of time. Either a solo dev/small team gets burned out, or a company's budget does. Given that time is really the resource in question here, silverlight offers the ability to rapidly develop very nice snappy UIs.

Prior WM apps, either have a bad UI, or overly complex code to create the UI. Either way, it's a bad use of developer time. Now that the UI is much easier to implement, the developer can allocate his time more wisely. So imo silverlight will improve the quality of the average application. So even the crippled .net cf will make the apps it can make, better, and faster on average (a blanket statement for sure, but I think it has merit.)

Basically less time on UI, means more time on Business Logic & Features.

Edit: I'm not insulting your intelligence, I'm sure you know most of this stuff, I just needed to state the obvious to make my point.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Case in point: the iPhone Bing app vs the WM version.
[Windows Phone 7 General] apreichner:
I think the challenge Microsoft had was to build an operating system that was superior in every way to iPhone, Android, and its current mobile operating system. And they have failed at that challenge. The UI might be better, the built in applications might be better, the Zune music store might be better, but there is still a lot Android and iPhone have them beat at.

So what, Silverlight is a decent tool to create SOME apps, but you can't do everything with it that you could with Java, .NET, or Objective-C for that matter. And the beauty of the Android is that it will have Adobe Flash support, and it already has low level C++ development support. Even 6.5 is better than WP7 because it has Flash Lite, Silverlight, .Net, C++, etc support through Visual Studio and the SDK. So in that way, Microsoft lost by not only creating a product that wasn't better than Android or iPhone, but by creating a product that in a development stance wasn't better than Windows Mobile 6. MAYBE in the future Microsoft might add more support, but I think in order to survive in this current cell phone market, they have to create a HUGE revolutionary splash in every way shape and form, but they haven't done that yet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
That might be the philosophical goal....but it's a bad realistic goal.

Something being superior to something else is subjective in many ways. Even then, when you talk about 1 product being better than another competitive product, you very rarely mean in every single fashion.

Just compare bing.com to google.com. most people would say google is better...but bing looks better to many and is quite competitive on search results. Bing maps has some nice features google maps doesn't have and vice versa.

So when comparing products you usually end up with some sort of weighted average depending on your preference. To me wp7 doesn't compete with Android directly. wp7 competes with iphone directly, and I think wp7 has the better features.

Android competes more with other business devices. Windows Mobile and RIM, which is where you'll see Android make the majority of it's gains, also some people that are with non-ATT providers, don't want to switch, and it happens that Android phones are probably the best selection of the lineup. I think wp7 will take that market over when it releases, cause it just looks newer and fresher.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I fully agree. It's just the business logic part that's missing really, the APIs here are very weak. I do welcome the UI improvements, I think it's actually a huge improvement and certainly way better than what Android can offer (not sure about Cocoa - don't know anything about it). I also don't think that you can build a really winning platform just on managed code, with all its benefits, simply because there will always be situations not foreseen by OS developers. Google already realized it, and I hope it won't take years for MS to do it as well. I think they do, and it's just that they don't have a way to make SL work together with native code ready.

I think they have more than enough to allow developers to build apps that would cover 90% of what Appstore and Market offer, so it's not that bad. It won't offer 50% of what I need though...
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
True, and this means people will have to ask themselves what they want do use for the next one and a half years, until WP7S is MAYBE mature enough.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm asking myself, yes, although the next 6 months are pretty much covered - I'll keep carrying HD2, but then it's Christmas, a holiday invented to give me a reason to change to a new phone. :) That will probably be the first year I won't know what to get.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
Wp7 is competing directly with Android, as well as iPhone. Microsoft can't help ignore something like Android.

Though Microsoft is betting that their UI and Xbox function will make you forgot about the differences between it and Android. Plus, since Apple is doing it as well, nobody is going to criticize them as much. After all, if these methods were successful for iPhone, why not Wp7?

Gotta feel sorry for HD2 owners. They have this amazing hardware in their hands, and it's crippled by WM6.5. Developer support is pretty much finished for Windows Mobile, as developers wait for development on Wp7. Some like Firefox, have already stopped as they don't see a future with Wp7.

Though, getting Wp7 on HD2 does bring some questions. Like, how would the SD card work? If Wp7 wasn't meant to have one, doesn't that make the SD card useless?

I wouldn't throw away the HD2 just yet anyway. It's just a matter of time before someone makes a full functional Android port for it. Plus you never know, HTC might do something amazing and give you Wp7 or even Android.

It's an amazing piece of hardware, it's just that the software blows.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, I don't have any problems with it. I still want a new phone for Christmas, and WP7 upgrade wouldn't do it for me. Plus, the reason why I'm wondering what to get is not that I don't think there will be WP7 phones with great hardware. It's that I don't want early WP7.

I don't give a damn about Android, even less about its ports. If it's Android vs WM, I'd rather stay with WM and wait to see how things evolve. Maybe I'll switch to iPhone 4G if it's good. I don't really need "developer support" at this time as it does everything I need at this stage.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
The thing I don't get is, if WM6.5 is adequate for many people, then why ever upgrade to HD2? To me, having a 1Ghz CPU reminds me of the time when I had a 1 Ghz cpu in my PC. Imagine the possibilities, I thought.

For example, my Kaiser has a 400 Mhz cpu which reminded me of the time I had a Pentium II @ 400 Mhz. What did I do with such a machine? I played NES, GENSIS, SNES, PSX, N64 games on it. I played Quake 3, and Unreal based games. I watched movies with DIVX, and listened to music with MP3. I surfed the web with Internet Explorer. Of course, I typed documents and made reports with Office.

For the most part, I have NES, GENESIS, SNES, and a PSX emulator on my Kaiser. I can type office documents and surf the web with Opera. I can watch movies and of course music. That's about all I can do.

Dabbling with Android ports to Kaiser made a huge improvement in performance. Quake 3 on Android is playable unlike WM6.5 on my Kaiser. Emulators work better and faster. Web browsing is equivalent to Opera. Typing documents hasn't changed. It's a huge improvement, despite how buggy it's been.

With software development screeching to a halt on WM6.5, what could a HD2 owner expect to get out of it? Maybe 720p video playback? Quake 3 for WM is playable on it? It boggles my mind to think that people are so willing to throw away their money. If I was a HD2 owner, I'd be mad as hell.

Owning a HD2 is like having a fast car with flat tires. The flat tires being WM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
It really is much nicer to use with that fast processor, at least that's my experience.

That's not WM's fault. I have an Android phone with that old 528MHz processor and that thing is incredibly slow - much slower than my Touch HD that has the same processor.

Any OS is more fun on fast hardware.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, HD2 was the best phone in the market when I bought it, and that's the reason why I bought it (and probably it still is). Don't see what's so difficult to understand about it. Yes, I do use it for watching videos while on the plane (I fly rather often). Don't play Quake 3, don't even know if it exists, but sometimes play NFS Undercover and Xtrakt (although I could have easily done without games at all, not a big fan of mobile gaming).

I don't see WM limiting it in any way I use it.

I don't like having phones for too long, I like to get new ones all the time, and because I try to sell them while they are still looking good I get decent resale value. So we're not talking about a lot of money here really.

Can't imagine how anyone would still be using a Kaiser, no matter which OS it has and how many Quakes it plays. To each his own I guess.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Dukenukemx:
To avoid having to pay for a monthly connection fee. Honestly, bought it off ebay. Otherwise, you'd see me with a G1.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
This is good reason to switch to Android...

4G Evo
[Windows Phone 7 General] Floz:
I agree, I think I will be keeping my HD2 for a long time!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
If it were actually available anywhere outside the US... YES.
[Windows Phone 7 General] iamcrazyfire:
>>but you can't do everything with it that you could with Java, .NET, or Objective-C for that matter.

Silverlight can be devloped by .net .....

so what Java can do that .Net can't ?All they are managed code
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Sorry, I have to post this now.

After reading THIS, I honestly can't see why anyone would still wait for WP7 or the next iPhone.

If you're fine with what you have... good for you.

But if not, don't hesitate - HTC's newest Android phones will not be beaten by anything for a long, long time.

It's the whole package of stunning hardware and a smooth, easy to use, yet incredibly powerful OS that no other phones will be able to offer:

WP7S is nice and smooth and hardware will be great, but it will lack features and apps, it will take a long time until this OS is ready for prime time.

iPhoneOS gets more and more of the missing features, but the hardware has never been great and it will always remain locked down and controlled by Apple, unless you're willing to walk on shaky ground and play the cat-and-mouse game of jailbreaking.

And who knows whether WP7S will ever be competitive?

And who knows whether the next iPhone will even be able to compete with yesteryear's WM/Android phones hardware-wise?

And who knows how long the increasingly difficult jailbreaking game can be played?

I kinda new it before, since I own lots of phones with all kinds of OSs and from all kinds of manufacturers - but after I read this HTC Desire review, I was sure that there's really nothing worth waiting for.

This thing does everything, it's fast, it's smooth, it's powerful - and that without any hacks or jailbreaks. Why wait for something that simply can't be as good as that?

If you're honest to yourself, you know that neither the next iPhone nor the first WP7S phones will be able to beat this.