yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] oyegaurav83:
Latest prototype

I don't know if this has been posted, latest prototype from samsung.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/windows-phone-7-pops-up-on-a-samsung-prototype-device/

Xbox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZksEnvA_hQA&feature=player_embedded

OS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjlvtHjJtps&feature=player_embedded

The OS look really snappy and xbox game is awesome. Maybe this will change few minds :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
I agree. To me, WP7 looks like they took a launcher app for Pocket PC 2000 and inverted the colors. I mean, yes, it has gorgeous and fluid animations, far more functionality, and etc. I am not disputing that. I'm talking purely about the graphical design of the Metro theme.

WM has long been criticized for looking too Windows 3.1. But, frankly, WP7 doesn't do much to change that, really. The funniest part to me is the buttons. The buttons are LITERALLY white text on black background with white box. How is that different from the WM default of light blue background, black text, and black outline?

To me, those types of UI elements stick out like a sore thumb against the arguably much prettier hub elements, as you pointed out.

I guess the glossy rounded versus clean lines debate is a totally different issue and I'm not saying one is superior to the other (the WM5 look never really bothered me actually), I just think it's humorous to see a lot of the same tech writers fawn over WP7's look when it's so similar to the previous WM5/6 look they criticized so heavily.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
I'm sure there are many this impresses, but I knew from the start that gaming was a core focus in WP7. that is cool, yes. I won't argue! Especially since so much Windows/Xbox XNA code can be reused. For gaming/gamers, this will definitely be a draw.

BUT... I don't shop for a phone to play games, so it's not even on the radar for things I look for in a phone, personally.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
Is the iPhone OS comparison really supposed to make him think twice about judging Windows Phone 7 to be a failure? C'mon...

The only thing that's driving iPhone OS is consumer ignorance.

As for your pizza analogy, it's flawed. If you asked for a pizza with cheese and mushrooms, and the dude at the counter told you that he was putting "everything" on it, you wouldn't wait until it came out of the oven to tell him it was going to suck ass and that you didn't ****ing want it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] NoWorthWhile:
It does help :)

Then, basically, what you need is WM 6.5 (or Android, whatever suits you best)

While I could argue that everything you stated "could" be done on WP7 as well, I just can't because it's not out yet. So I'll leave that to 2011.

But from what I've understood, you fear that WP7 will be like iPhone OS, which IS indeed a closed OS as you state... And from that point of view, I agree 100% with you.

But MS has made it pretty clear that the app-limitations won't be as severe as Apple's, so you might find WP7 to fill your needs.

As for multitasking, it's an argument already discussed a billion times.

And as far as the Mobile applications and the productivity that you can extract from them, there's only one limitation : screen real estate... Even if you put a full Office client on a small screen, do you see yourself spending hours on your phone trying to change that one animation in powerpoint?

That's what seems so unreal when you guys talk about a Pocket-PC... My TP2 is a pocket pc then... But I never spend more then 10 minutes in Word, or PDF viewer.

But, I guess it's something we've got to discuss when the OS is out...

Thank you for your kind response :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, at the moment that's just PR talk, nothing more, and not simply because the OS isn't out yet. Apple prohibits alternative browsers? Microsoft doesn't, but they release APIs that make alternative browsers impossible. Apple doesn't allow apps made with Adobe's tools? Microsoft doesn't have such a restriction but it's not possible to do it for WP7 anyway. So if you listen to what they say - yes, they are more open. If you look at what they do - it's the same story, or even worse.
[Windows Phone 7 General] taxim:
Yada, yada, yada

No matter what is said here, the great majority of "users" will never need more than what WM 7, iPhone and Android offers.

I personally think that if the iPad had phone capability, it would get my dollars. Have you really tried to run any critical programs on a Smart Phone with a 3 - 4" screen? I have the Moto Droid and I find it quite nice and easy to play with but when I want real functionality, I go to my laptop. This will change to a iPad type instrument as soon as a good non Apple unit hits the market.

Just my 2 cents from a 65 year old "techie" that wants and needs a larger gui interface. Am I in the minority of users? Maybe, but I would suggest that most of the people that visit and post here are a minority of sorts with their individuals needs.:rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] MooGoo:
I have totally unfounded secret hopes that one day HTC will produce a keyboard phone with a sliding butterfly screen. Like...a screen that is usually hidden behind the main screen, but could slide out next to it when you wanted a wider or taller area to work with. Probably far more trouble than it is worth for most people but I think it'd be pretty sweet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sure, mail (together with ability to view ppt/xls/doc attachments), Exchange sync are critically important for me. Satnav is also a welcome addition to calling functionality. And of course music and ebooks do a good job entertaining me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] speed_pour:
If I worked at <insert carrier name here, probably AT&T> and you walked in and said even a couple words of that, I'd hand you an Android and congratulate you on being as close to a happy customer as you're going to get. I think you're actually a bit unlike the majority of people on this forum. As I see it, you're not the "power user" that inhabits this forum. Most of this forum's "power user" category wants a phone that they can do more with, but I get the impression you want a laptop computer that is also a phone. You're coming at this from a completely different angle, which is that you want a full computer in your pocket, not just a more powerful phone. I believe most people here are looking for a phone that can do the 80% that they NEED NOW and fine tune later, where you want the full 100% so you NEVER NEED the computer. In my opinion, WP7 was never meant for you at all. If I were trying to sell you WP7, it would be like trying to sell you a hotplate when you want an industrial sized BBQ. I kinda have trouble believing that WM is even remotely making you happy. I'm not criticizing (I too want a product like that on the market), just trying to build a perspective.

I maintain there is a third style, which is even what MS is using in Hubs, which is fades/faded lines. It's the same style HTC used since their very first Today Screen clock plugin (back when they first created the Cube), and they use it all over the place in SenseUI. Titanium sorta used it, and it can be seen in a lot of other places with great success (Android even has a bit, though it seems to be more in the apps than the base OS interface. I just wish MS would have been more consistent across the whole of WP7.

Technically, this point to the analogy is also flawed...Even though he didn't order it with everything and didn't want everything, he might actually find that he likes it if he tried it.

Sushi, Wine, Broccoli, Fish, Lamb, Whiskey...All things I hated the first time I tried them (still not a big fan of most types of fish). Even though we typically know what we want, and may have even had prior experiences with similar things, it's always possible that we'll end up liking something that didn't work before when it was done a different way this time.

That's true right now, but Android started as an exclusively Java-only environment with no customization of the OS and a painfully limited API...now, it's REALLY opened up (and even with some significant breaking changes to some of the original API). iPhone hasn't made huge changes, but they have relaxed restrictions a bit. MS is likely to do what they've always done, land in the middle. They will probably make available more things when the OS stabilizes a bit more. We might not see Fennec going onto WP7 anytime soon, but it's not unreasonable to assume they will eventually expand the API to something more capable as the OS stabilizes. So far each of the other two have waited until things reached a more stable point before they opened up the "full" capabilities to the public (or as much as they ever will).
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
That thing is UGLY! Metro(Home screen) looks like its from 2001.

Can we remove some of those tiles?

The gaming side looks good. Are the same games going to be available for the ZUNE?
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
yeah only the tiles you want on the home screen will be there....no these games wont be on the zune HD
[Windows Phone 7 General] qwertylesh:
Dell is said to be releasing one, its called the slate or something along those lines, its 6" IIRC and supports phone capability and has the rest of the tablet style bells and whistles, personally though, im holding out for something not apple and not dell.:D
[Windows Phone 7 General] NoWorthWhile:
The streak maybe? Can't remember.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
Close. It's not that I want to not use my computer (I happily use both a laptop and desktop frequently). It's that when I'm out, I only want to have to have my phone. In other words, it's not that I WANT to compose a document or configure a server on my phone (the screen real estate is always going to be a problem), it's that I want the capability to do it in a pinch.

You are right about Android. It is currently the best solution for that type of scenario due to its massive flexibility.

WM makes me very happy, although I'm getting a bit jealous of peers with Android phones that do more. The thing is I'm on a contract for a while anyway, so that's what happens when your device is over six months old and you have 1.5 years left to drool over your next one. ;-)

I honestly had high hopes for WP7. You see here's the thing. WP7 is clearly not designed for me. But that isn't going to stop me from complaining that it isn't designed for me! Up until about WM6, WM was getting leaps and bounds better with each version and there were tons of new amazingly powerful apps. Then the changes became very small. WM6 to WM6.1 to WM6.5 were very small. Good changes, yes, but nothing earth shattering.

With WP7, it feels like we are going backwards in every single way with the exception of UI. Well, UI is not as important to me, so it pisses me off that the formerly true Pocket Computer has been turned into a peripheral email, music, and gaming device (I still think CE is a better embedded OS than Linux, despite thinking Android as a whole platform currently has the edge).

Try to understand that this anger isn't just a misplaced Company X isn't doing what I want them to. Microsoft is literally literally abandoning a ten year old mature platform that a LOT of people have investment in, and replacing it with a Cellular Zune and telling us it's all we need.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ruilx:
nice lil war on here, this is better than watching smart bombs destroy yet another taliban wannabe house on cnn. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] GAMERIG:
I am wondering if Once MS find out that everyone hate 7 as DOA, Will they re-launch 6 ???
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
WinMobile 6.5 will continue to be supported, but a proper re-launch? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
not so sure everybody hates it...even on xda look how much money ($1400) they raised in 14 hours just for the possibility of getting wp7 ported to the HD2 so there is lots of people wanting it, plus there is so many people who still hasnt even heard about it yet & will want it when they do...wp7 will not be doa sorry
[Windows Phone 7 General] flashpanda:
Hahaha, no. There's a small minority of people who are clinging onto the past. I'm sorry, but WP7 isn't aimed at small minorities; that's considered bad business sense. WM Classic will continue to exist, but WP7 is the primetime platform.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
Not likely! IF WP7 doesn't sell (and that's a big IF; as stated before the "fail" in this long thread has nothing to do with market performance as I imagine most of us would call iPhone "fail" as well), the more likely outcome would be to take WP7 and keep reintroducing features and coming up with new features not thought of before. You might also see some of the 'rules' relaxed too. Maybe Sense will be allowed again. At best, (likely not though) you might see a WM6 emulator if backward compatibility becomes a bigger issue than they think right now. That happened on Palm WebOS. So it's possible, just not likely.

And that's okay. As much as I prefer WM6.5 to WP7's beta, I would rather get more power and freedom on WP7's CE7 modern OS than continue to innovate the aging CE5 platform of WP6.5. I could deal just fine with a clean break if the new platform wasn't so freaking lacking, restrictive, and... fail!
[Windows Phone 7 General] XaaR_:
I think that the platform itself looks really awesome.

But I am afraid that microsoft is shooting themselves in their foot(s) by restricting features such as Local Database and Sockets support. Some say the end user doesn't care, but they will. When the platform is missing some apps that is impossible/hard to build because of the lacking of those things.

The worst thing is that I suspect that it's just som extremly dumbass decision. Would it really be so hard for MS to include Database or Sockets support? Sockets are even supported in Web Silverligt.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
My guess is that MS believes that something like socket support isn't worth delaying the entire OS over. That's something that can be added in a later platform update.

It's like copy/paste and full 3rd party multitasking. It's better to have well executed implementations next spring than buggy and poorly made implementations at launch.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Jokes On You:
I don't think this will last long. Developers are going to want another way to store local information rather than isolated storage and in .xml files. I think this is a case of lets try and get as much eye candy in first then worry about the back end. That way you can attract end users making your product more marketable.(you will have an issue with developers initially but once the end users come the developers will too)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
You don't need a PC-like device for those scenarios, a phone with "an app for that" will also do it. So there must be something else.

I can understand them. Those people defected in flocks to the first cool thing Google promised them.

I certainly hope it'll never come to that - Sense as a downloadable application may be good, but no more preinstalled 3+K lua file insanity please.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drvitorino:
yes, minority is the right word. While WM6.XXX forgot that usability is important, it was clear that mobile phones with WM were incompetent as phones. They were good for some tasks, but not for phones.

Windows PC and WM phones are on the hands of some nerd programmers that forgot that regular users dont understand computers. The politics from Microsoft that priorizes quantity instead of quality is beaten by Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Are you sure that it's not just that the majority out there are incompetent morons? Yay, you can swipe a few times in such an intuitive way to get to see your stupid Lady Gaga music video or lame Coldplay music! Yay for being too stupid to use a stylus for getting exact clicks like a real computer!

I understand it's about making money and appealing to the majority, while putting functionality and the customizability of a mini version of a PC-based device, but can't it be both? Why is it so hard to have Windows Phone 7 with a registry, file explorer, Microsoft Update, side-loading, and SD-card expandability? Google is pioneering the OTA update and adding file exploration really takes care of all the other lacks...
[Windows Phone 7 General] cgigate:
Microsoft wants suicide, nobody blocks them
[Windows Phone 7 General] Jokes On You:
Because all it takes is a couple of users destroying their device because they deleted a incorrect registry item or pulling out their storage card and expecting an application that was installed on it to still work. For people who see technology as useful but never stop to think how it works(this is the majority) then it makes sense to close a system in. Do i agree with this no, do I understand it yes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Screw up your device because you're an idiot? Then plug the usb cord into your PC and hit a button and it re-installs your contacts/calendar information, applications, and other files via MS My Phone. It's doable NOW.

We've all F-ed up our devices one way or another and we know how to reset everything. If Microsoft makes it as easy as that, what's the problem then?

As it is, we don't know if the registry will be accessible with an application. I hope that this is the case. With Resco developing for Windows Phone 7, I'm hoping for a nice file explorer with registry capabilities. Of course, I'm not paying $30 for something I should be getting for free.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
His point was that while we know how to do this, the vast majority of users simply don't and that's where the smartphone market will grow as time goes on. This is who WP7 is being designed for.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Yes I understand this. But Windows 7 was designed for the dopier users in mind and yet, still, the more advanced people can have at it, if they wanted to.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
I think it's also important to remember that people have different expectations for their PCs than they do for their phones. People expect that their PCs are highly functional. They don't expect, or really desire, that kind of functionality on their phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MooGoo:
I don't believe this is true. Most people use computers for little more than to browse the interwebs, watch videos, listen to music, chat on IM and occasionally type up a document. Maybe they also expect to be able to install virus laden smiley toolbars if that counts as highly functional but for the most part people expect the same things of smartphones and computers.

The fact that 90% of people spend most their computer time drooling at lolcats and sending chain emails to family members has never hampered the ability of more tech minded users to harness the full power of their PC. It need not with smartphones either, except that Apple has now shown that the artificially imposed restrictions and limitations on the iPhone platform has positively benefited their bottom-line (they get a significant cut of each app sold). Thus Microsoft has "seen the light" and is following suit. Simple as that, it never had anything to do with user experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
But, Metro is eye candy fail too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
"Getting the point" FAIL.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
I don't get why people keep defending WP7 with the argument "it wants to appeal to the masses". I mean, yes, of course it does. After all, Microsoft want to sell a few licenses.

Let's just say "yes, it's good for Joe Average" (*). But in what way does this make it woth defending it?

There's three possible answers:

- You are feeling with Joe Average, i.e. you want that he's happy.

- You get paid by Microsoft, thus you want them to earn money.

- You are a Microsoft fanboy and don't care as much about the product itself as about Microsoft's success.

If none of those three points applies to you, then you should be more interested in whether WP7 is good for you, than whether Joe Average likes it. In this case, please stop repeating that useless (for non-fanboys, non-MSFT-employees at least) argument.

(*) it actually isn't for various reasons, but that's a point I don't want to discuss right now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
EXACTLY. Why must those two approaches be mutually exclusive? That is never answered by the "I like to be restricted" fanboys.

Thank God Android exists. I don't want to hop platforms, but at least I have a choice...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, you failed to get your point across, if you have one.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Because the topic is about whether WP7 be a failure. If you read the OP, it talks about competition, not about "internet memes".
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I do, and I'm sure that a lot of people do, but you're right the majority expect that. Because no one is doing it. When it's a closer possibility, then people will desire it. But if Microsoft sits around thinking that no one will want it, then that's being naive.

People want their stuff to be simple because they are too dumb to do anything else. Plain and simple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Actually: No. He talks about how WP7 sucks. He doesn't argue about whether it's "for the masses" or not, because that's totally irrelevant if you're not a MSFT employee or fanboy. People who defend it with this "argument" clearly are fanboys (or get paid), cause there's no otjer reason why it would matter.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
They are not mutually exclusive. Not at all.

THAT is how you see whether a company is good or not. Only doing one approach is easy and doesn't show how skilled a company is. Microsoft and Apple apparently lack the necessary skills (Microsoft's Windows division excluded, cause Win7 is in fact good software).
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Nobody is "defending" anything, but of course popular platforms have benefits - carrier availability, third-party development, hacking/jailbreaking community, hardware variety, accessory market, etc. Speaking about MS themselves, they are much more proactive with markets where they see money, so if WP7 gets traction there is a higher probability to get some first party love as well, and there are lots of things MS can do here.

So yes, of course "the masses" matter, and accounting for this fact has nothing to do with fanboyism. Not seeing these aspects is pretty fanboyish, actually.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
O RLY? Then why is there such a huge online community for jailbroken iPhones, rooted Android devices, and, well, xda-developers itself?

Not disagreeing that the largely untapped market for future smartphone users are not power users, but power users are still a significant and growing market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
EXACTLY! Why argue against your own interests? It makes no sense. There is no good argument against increased flexibility on a platform. There are plenty of good arguments for different UIs, different priorities, or different app models. But restrictions and flexibility? Every argument thus far is BS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
That's true - everything related to smartphones is growing (apart from WM probably), but the challenge for every player in the market is to tap into the key growth segments, and I doubt that power users are key here. After the dust settles, one can think what to do to expand their presence. Apple is doing it somewhat. And I think that it's much easier for Apple to loosen restrictions than for Google to get their platform inconsistencies sorted out (for shaundalglish: this is not to say that iPhone is better than Android, it's just an illustration - "better" and "worse" are much more complex things than this). The faster you grow, the more difficult it may be to deal with mistakes that you make early on.