yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
WHY ARE YOU HERE THEN?!?!?!? This isn't WP7 vs Android pissing contest. If you like android so much, then go by one and troll their forums!

Umm you just long press on the app and select "uninstall" to get rid of bloatware. It's a benefit of the apps not being able to put files all over the place and not being able to modify the system. Pictures, music, videos and office docs will be accessible through the Zune client. You can also upload them to "the cloud" and download them with your computer.

All WP7 devices come with a minimum of 8GB of storage. Other phones will come with more. Some may have internal MicroSD cards that can be changed with a little effort. That remains to be seen though.

I'm not even going to respond since we've gona over this a zillion times in this thread and other threads.

Yea, uh huh. Tell that to the US Department of Defence. :facepalm: Look, the iPhone does what most people need. It checks email, browses the interwebs, plays games and media, etc. You can install applications to do many other tasks for "business" needs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I understand this method, but have yet to see evidence of its practicality. I tried syncing my TP2 with Microsoft My Phone once. I selected my documents, videos, music, photos, and texts to sync. The meter bar took 2 hours (on Wifi, no interference, fast RR connection). After that, it made me restart and told me that there wasn't enough space for most of that stuff online. Yeah, the cloud's a GREAT idea :rollseyes: (especially when the US is TERRIBLE with upload speed http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0). Not to mention, is my ripped media safe online? It better be.

Yeah, we'll have to see. I can't see them allowing expandable slots without file exploration.

I'm not sure how to respond to this since it seems to been written by a 10 year old. The iPhone works for people, it does whatever they need it to. Fine. But anyone that says it's the best phone on the market is a moron that deserves to be beaten. Yes, competition leads to better products, but personally, the iPhone ruined what I wanted my phone to be doing. I want a mini computer that makes phone calls and runs mini versions of everything I do on a PC. I want my mini file explorer, I want my mini Office programs, I want my mini messenger and weather applications, I want my mini registry, I want my mini desktop and my mini taskbar and start menu. Now, because this country is full of idiots that want easier rather than spending the time to LEARN something, what I want as a phone has been compromised. This country is full of morons that charge through high school or a degree in undergrad so that they don't have to ever learn anything ever again.

Now my beloved Windows Phone is the victim!!! I love having a powerful desktop, a portable laptop, and an even more portable, pocket computer that all pretty much does the same thing. I can interchange, network, whatever.

With Windows Phone 7, it's the odd one out. Yeah, it's interchangeable, but not how the owner chooses. I'll be forced into using My Phone (UGH) to get files off the unit.

I can only hope that there are a lot more free apps for some of the functions that should have been included. For example, I can now open the file explorer and run music or videos from my desktop on my phone over the LAN, without running something in the background on my desktop. I can use VNC to control my PCs from my phone or control my phone from my PCs. I'm not paying for these functions, ever.
[Windows Phone 7 General] daniel-t:
I suggest you skip Windows Phone 7 then, and stick with Windows Mobile 6.5. Microsoft have said all along, a Phone is not a PC, so you should get a netbook with skype for phone calls.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I know, I know, it's sad. Microsoft had their niche with a phone that was also a pocket version of a PC. All they had to do was dress up the UI. Now, they are joining in with everyone else that's blocks ahead in the race, pretending that there's no stigma attached to their name.

I want WP7 to do well. I hope it does. I hope they step up the enterprise features just in time, and add a lot more that people think they weren't going to add. I will stand by Microsoft. But I will also not sit back in denial of some key issues.
[Windows Phone 7 General] CSMR:
Agreed, although this has nothing to do with bloatware. Giving the user access to all files on the device is not a great idea, then the system is not guaranteed to work (if the user has altered system files).

OTOH a common store of files is essential. Isolated storage and Zune syncing are a bad joke.

Agreed.

Not important except for in-house software or pirated software (I'm not moralizing about this btw). Software currently created by enthusiasts and posted here is created for anyone to use and can be put on the marketplace for free.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
So I guess you missed that you can also use the Zune client on your PC to sync files? And you don't even have to plug it in. You can sync it over WiFi directly to your computer. In fact, once you plug your phone into a power source it can automically connect to your home WiFi (you set it as home) and sync to your machine without you doing anything. But I've never had a problem with My Phone. I usually use 3G since I'm too lazy to setup the WiFi connection and I have crap signal at home and still haven't had a problem.

Right. They're not really allowing user-replaceable storage cards. If you remove the card, it goes into an emergency calls only mode. Changing the card requires a hard reset. See Da_G's explanation.

I'm guessing you were referring to my usage "interwebs"; it's a joke, lighten up Francis. When did I say that the iPhone is the best phone on the market? I don't own one and never would. I may be sounding like a 10yr old but you're sounding like a curmudgeonly old man complain as the world passes him by. Windows Mobile tried the whole "desktop PC in your pocket" thing and failed. It's time to accept that and move on. But your beloved Windows Mobile won't just stop working so just stick to that. Android has a somewhat similar motif of "desktop in your pocket" so you may be happier there once you decide to move on from your current phone.

I'm sorry you don't like to pay for software but there very well may be a free VNC client for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Not if the application messes with the UI or any of these garbage rules.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
If the software changes the OS, how is Microsoft supposed to be able to update it with any regularity? Do you want to have to hard reset and wait til the modification app is updated every time MS pushes out an update? Seriously, if you like all that, Google will gladly take you.

Although they may stop this if the rumors are correct about Android 3 due this winter.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
You might be right about all of that. But one thing I hate is naivete. HATE IT with a passion. And I'm not going to sit back as the world turns and not try and figure out what's really going on when things change. I'm fine with change (I didn't always have a smartphone and I bought a multitouch PC that I'd thought I'd never buy), but I'm not going to sit back while pocket PCs become catalysts for idiots and technology, smokers become more hated than blacks in the 50s, and the world buys into the magical influence of going green.

I might have to consider Android, but I fear them going in the same direction eventually. I'll have to get more experience with it first. But I love my Microsoft!
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Can you link me to what you mean by this? Thanks in advance!
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I'm a "power user". At first I was pretty POed with the changes and restrictions in WP7. But I've come to realize that most of it really is for the better, even for us power users. A smartphone OS has to target the mass market in order for it to succeed. The mass market is dumb. That being said, it doesn't really alienate us. I have no doubt that the fringe features will come to those who really care through "jailbreaking". Jailbroken iPhones have been "multitasking" for years.

Here's one. That's not the only time it's been mentioned but one example of such. Google is VERY aware of the fragmentation issues and is extremely keen on resolving it. They've publicly stated that they're working to resolve it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Making something easy to use is separate from making something more simplistic. Take Windows XP -> Windows 7 for example. Windows 7 is more easy to use and more advanced than Windows XP.

So it's not always the case that you need to create a device apt of advanced features because you think the masses can't handle them. You just need an interface that either obfuscates that process for them, or just not make it apparent to that less advanced user.

But for the most part missing features of wp7 are more so because of time constraints rather than MS not wanting them in the OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gerryjoson:
Well, unless it's about WM or WP7 it's kind of meaningless here, and pretty convenient that it's not publicly available.

Well you were the one making a big deal about how some users don't represent the average , opinions aren't useless, they're all that matters, just like your opinion about how Metro is great, my opinion is that it's a swipey looking gay mess where you spend more time wheelspinning across the screen with your fingers than actually getting anywhere, I have a fair idea of the type of reviews or previews you seek by your rabid fanboyism, from what I read, opinions on it seem divided pretty evenly.

Whats simpler than launching any app from my today screen by icon, any word or excel doc in two touches of the screen from a list of 20 or so at one time, how many times do you have to smear around the screen to do the same in WP7?, once it's open how many movements do you have to make to enter text or edit/copy/paste [if it's even going to be available] while your zooming in and out and panning around which is currently unnecessary with wm and a stylus.WP7 might be simpler for an idiot to pick up and use, it's not simpler for any sort of productivity by way of the fact the extra steps have been added because everything is inputted and navigated by finger only.

I had read GPS and music would continue to run in the background, what about the browser downloading something or remote desktop while you check email, send a text etc.? if state saving pauses anything that you are wanting to happen in the background while you do something else, then that doesn't make sense given the memory amount we have available and the fact that manufacturers are finally moving away from dreadful qualcomm 7XXX series cpu's.

This is the "why WP7 fails" thread, I don't go into your other fanboy threads where your getting excited over the possibility of a different twitching box colour, or how one of you is ecstatic because some blogger said something nice about WP7, now do I, this thread is for current users to discuss what a piece of **** WP7 is, and you fanboys are being utterly ridiculous in your assumptions about what people want, need, or prefer, or just have trouble understanding that some just think it's a stinking pile of iphone clone that's a backwards step over wm.

Are you for real!? i don't even know how to reply to that utter tripe.

Where have you been?, certainly not here except for the last few weeks, state of the art interface my ass, it's just another dumb dumb added layer as a directory to applications...more steps to get anywhere, how the developers see it remains to be seen.

Well, I'll take your word for that, I have no interest in playing games on something without buttons
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
This type of approach, while understandable and even desirable, has a number of problems associated with it, when you look at it together with the sandboxing and a downgraded status of third party applications.

Zune software will only sync a number of file types - only media, and only in supported formats. When you talk about office documents, your only optioins are Sharepoint (which is great if you have it, I don't), and email, and again that's limited to a number of supported formats - if someone sends you a pdf, what are you going to do with it? Nothing.

To work around this, third party applications will have to embed webbrowser controls to let you download files they handle to their isolated storage areas. If you'll want to send these files from your PC you'll have to set up a webserver there (which isn't that difficult, it's embedded in Opera, for example, but still a nuisance). This problem isn't unique to WP7, iOS and Android have it as well with different levels of severity, but at least iOS lets you view common files like pdf without any special hacks.

So while I probably won't miss file browsing really, a combination of no access to filesystem, severe application sandboxing and plain lack of support built in for some scenarios will make WP7 a substandard experience sometimes. Pickers and choosers would help actually without opening access to filesystem, but they aren't available either.

All of this doesn't qualify WP7 as a "FAIL" though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sure, but you can get the idea somewhat. Developer tools were downloaded some 200 or 250 thousand times (this is what iPhone boasted after selling several million devices), and on MSDN you have about a third of the number of posts WM got throughout years of existence. I'd say for an OS that's not even out yet, and that's not a clear market winner (it's very uncertain how it will perform), it is a whole lot of interest.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Da_G:
Guys,

I realize opinions on this topic can be polarizing and some can elicit an elevated response, but I'm confident we can continue this constructive (and interesting!) discussion without resorting to the use of vulgar language.

Thanks! :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Today technical previews appeared.

Like here:

http://wmpoweruser.com/wp7-technical-preview-reviews-are-out/

@RustyGrom

Your sentence about not needing copy & paste on smartphone is the most unconscious thing I've read. As well regarding file system. Sorry mate but do you live on another planet?

I use it hundreds times a day. Did you ever edit your email or .doc file on your device?

Probably not, I'm doing it on daily basis. Why to have Office without basic functions!!

I also often copy internet articles right into word files - what a magnificent functionality.

I'm a WM 6.5 user and to be honest functionality wise it's a dream, just the hardware is outdated and sure - UI could be simplified a bit. I like it more than Android though.

Reading some previews raises even more questions:

- So no simple items & pictures download from the browser?

- Why to incorporate Facebook and NOT Twitter and MySpace???!!!

- So also when I would like to SIMPLY put 20 albums on my device (like I do now), I won't be able to do it anymore and will be forced to do Zune sync instead?! How awkward.

Marketwise I think Microsoft can reach a success with WP7 with the help of device producers.

Me as a "Power" user - I'm afraid I will be forced to switch platform again.

Or stay with WM 6.5......

Some may be right - Android may be the only choice.....

Microsoft is following the philosophy which was introduced by Apple, I have no doubt.

They want to differentiate - and have to - but in fact the basic concept of how device is handled and syncronized with PC is similar.

I just get this feeling once somebody will not want to rely on services and paths Microsoft proposes, the device will be awkward and miserable to use.

The lack of task/app switcher is a disaster. Present on any Windows, present on any other OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
And one more thing:

Regarding the stability issues with multitasking etc.....

A VERY bad argument. It's the DEVELOPER thing to make it work!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] blanket:
thats the issue i'm having right now

my friends were all very surprised to find that i don't have a 3g data plan on my phone, and that i'm still using a 2g sim card (i think)

thing is, apps on wm6.5 were able to run locally, like a street directory, or the bus guide which i use daily. my only gripe is that i can't check bus arrival times, but it's fine by me because thats so far, the only reason why i would need an internet connection on the move. i use garmin for my gps needs, which i can get maps off the internet at home, updated by drivers who actually plied the roads.

wp7 is some what of a weird phone, and the more i look at it, the more i feel that it is very likely to NOT be the phone for me.

yes, i have facebook, but i don't use it all day. i don't have twitter or any other social networking sites.

i don't need to play games on my phone during commuting because i have my tabloid to keep me company. i have a cowon s9 to satisfy my music craving on the move.

usb drive mode is missing? god. thats the only thing that actually allows me to not own a thumbdrive

what about apps from places like here? we can't install it? i hope this will be enabled in the future. it's a community like xda that helps keep microsoft in business

so then, what can wp7 do for me? unlikely to be a lot, as wm6.5 is a better fit for my uses

regardless, i'll be there to try wp7 at launch for myself. i may just get rid of it if i don't like it and buy a hd2 instead
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Yes, you can use the browser to download supported file types - pictures, office docs for example. IIRC, you can also download zip archives from which you can extract files if they are supported. This is due to the fact that there's no file system access and therefore there are no file save as dialogs. Also since applications are sandboxed they don't have access to each other's files.

Twitter's omission is weird, but MySpace actually is included via Live (as are many many more social networks). Tech blogs usually tend to kind of dismiss anything coming from Microsoft (especially in the web/social networking sphere), so they didn't notice that. Live aggregates lots of things and you can actually tune it up to choose what you want to be updated on or not. I would actually prefer to get Facebook updates via Live rather than directly. As a matter of fact, you can include anything that has an RSS feed, although unlike Facebook or Myspace it'll be one-way (i.e. you get updates but can't post them).

Actually, while I would also prefer to add things via copying, Zune software is very good. It's immensely better, faster and more flexible than iTunes (which comes to mind when you think about syncing media). In fact, you can simply drag and drop anything you like from your PC or from a network share or what not. So for supported file types it's quite good, although not perfect. It's the unsupported third party files that are problematic.

A task switcher in an OS that doesn't multitask is what's awkward. Instead of running programs you get a history of apps (look at iOS 4), which makes it utterly pointless as going to the homescreen is actually faster than scrolling through lists of what you've run so far.

To me, a task switcher is really needed in two scenarios:

One - I'm driving using my satnav app, get an incoming call. I want to quickly minimize the dialer and keep using satnav, keeping the conversation via speakerphone. The Back button together with the notification area on top in WP7 will do that just fine - hitting Back will minimize the dialer, hitting the notification will bring the dialer back if I need it.

Two - I switch between two apps, copying and pasting info from browser to mail client etc. Well, this one doesn't need commenting I guess.

For everything else - lack of a task switcher isn't that big of a deal if you don't need to kill apps, check memory usage etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] anjuajax:
http://www.onenewspage.com/news/Business/20100719/13168063/Microsoft-New-Mobile-OS-Is-Weak-MSFT.htm

Is this a right news?:eek:
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
@vangrieg

Thanks for claryfying these things!

@shaundalglish

Yes, however I wouldn't go so far with praising Android which still has some lacks compared to WM 6.5, and critisizing WP7.....

But the points are valid, so when I browse the net and than sms comes I have to

CLOSE browser, enter sms app, answer, and than come back to BROWSER?

Well now I can open pages IN THE BACKGROUND while smsing with somebody.

Yes WM6.5 has a real multitasking.

Things are to be seen. However togehter with my big interest in WP7,

I'm really annoyed by the route they've taken!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that IE in WP7 will download pages in background. It would be a problem for third party browsers but you won't get them for a while anyway.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
That's correct. You get up to 6 tabs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
You really are one silly little troll. If you read what I wrote and still don't understand multitasking (the pre-emptive kind that's been around for like forever) versus the cooperative or 'tombstoning' methods you seem to favor, then I guess you don't remember how much of a pain MacOS 1-9 and Windows 3.1 were.

So really, the only conclusion I have is that you are a troll -- nothing more. Go troll somewhere else. XDA is about actual help and work, for free, by and for the community. If the community has a problem with a particular architecture, they have every right to voice their opinion. I've said on NUMEROUS occasions that if you don't need multitasking (and the other things I've complained about) then you will probably love WP7. It sure has some things going for it, like for the gamer community, the XBox integration and XNA is wonderful.

But for a large amount of users (and yes, probably not a majority, but I'm not sure why that matters) like everybody who jailbreaks their iphones, lots of people who use Android (especially those that root), and everybody that burns custom ROMs and otherwise tweaks WM, WP7 will be a big burden that doesn't meet quite a few of their needs. Some will deal with it and maybe enjoy it. I think a very large amount will jump ship. My opinion.

If you can't read what I am saying and understand I'm not trying to antagonize people (until they antognize me first, like you), then go troll somewhere else. You don't belong here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
Thanks for making my point by agreeing with me.

22% isn't that small. And it should be noted that as WM classic fades in market penetration, Android grows. Funny, that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
Very good point. I would further assert that it's not interchangable with classic WM, which it seems MS is trying more and more to say. A lot of their latest slides tout how it's enterprise ready. But without an enterprise app distribution system, that's pretty much not the case for many enterprises.

Moreover, the apps already developed in WM classic will not run on WP7. I mean it's easy to say "get with the times" but the fact is there's not a lot of money for LoB apps in general and then being forced to upgrade them is a pain. It's clear MS is pushing the Windows Embedded based on WM Classic for this, and that's great they are doing that for a change over period, but their timeline is two years.

Show me a company that is willing to change over their entire internal LoB apps that quickly, and I'll show you the biggest liar in the world. ;-) It's going to take a lot more time than that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
RustyGrom doesn't use it, so nobody should need it! Excellent argument!