yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
This has been discussed ad nauseum already. In many cases you need the application to actually run in background. MS and Apple do it for their own apps such as the music player. The whole question is whether we'll be able to use third-party apps that need it as well.
[Windows Phone 7 General] devil_82:
true, believe in the near future, we will have more prominent answer. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] seed_al:
This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rd3TD9g_Y

+ WP7 design and MS services

= perfect

(notice how elegantly it multitasks and how it also has tiles? It just looks ugly)
[Windows Phone 7 General] krjcook:
That's probably the only OS that actually has that type of multitasking besides the Pre.
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
WM also has it if you install Task Facade. Android kinda has it (shows you a list of apps when you long press the home button).
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
you can discuss forever it won't change anything. wait for the OS and see for yourselves.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chaoscentral:
That just shows your 6 recently launched apps, not nessecarily running though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] souljaboy:
who gives a **** about the iphone ??? if uve handled a snapdragon phone , and after u get an iphone in ur hand , ur wipe ur ass with it and its ugly low res screen

its history , stop riding it
[Windows Phone 7 General] zarpy:
WP7 will be king

Iam very confident in windows phone7 and its ability to handle Xbox games and tasks. So confident that for WVGA devices like touchpro2 I made a demo of what it would be like and I put it here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ca5c4d3:
My best guess is that WP7 still uses windows CE as its code base and inherits multitasking support. Seems like multitasking is not a big deal though as WP7 moves away from the multiple application concept.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fdo35:
Although we have heard rumors that WP7S will have preemptive multitasking, if you think about it, the live tiles really defeat the purpose of multitasking.

Say you have a (multi-platform) twitter app.

In Android, you can leave this open and come back to it anytime and it will be up-to-date, but you don't receive any notification.

When using live tiles in WP7S, you can run your twitter app and then switch over to another app, and, although your twitter app will close, while your doing other things your app's live tile can be checking for updates periodically and even display the most recent tweet directed towards you on the homesreen. That way, when you go back to the homesreen, you can see that there's a new tweet, and launch the now-updated app.
[Windows Phone 7 General] style1:
well Vegas here I come...I'm so excited I can't sleep. I will be at MIX10 plane leaves in a few hours)...I hope to confirm multitasking myself. The Software development company I represent hopes to be heavily invested into WP7 so lets hope for good things. I wish I used twitter for these sorts of occasions..lol. Anyway..the wait is over in about 12 hours the info will start pouring out. I hope to be on here with heavy (HEAVY) "I told you so's" or with my extremely big foot in my mouth.

~style1~

EDIT: Just so I'm not trolling. I don't think that the concept of Multitasking is in question anymore, its clear the system does that, however as it was pointed out to me in my previous roasting it comes down to the assumption that 3rd party apps wont be able to multitask. So yes since the OS is using push notifications to the core, of course the phone itself is always multitasking by updating your facebook, twitter, calendars, task, photos, contacts info, etc. But will it be able to do the same with 3rd party apps? Of course thats just my understanding (from doing "homework") of the problems. It of course makes you wonder, I mean lets say WP7 supports facebook and twitter (which it does) what if it doesn't support myspace? If there is a myspace 3rd party app will it update the same? Or will it just close upon exiting? Will you have to tag it to the HUBS in order to keep it constantly alive? 12 hours or so till we get some of these answers (I hope). Seed_al, let me know if I got that right...I've been trying to get a better understanding. I might just be the worst software programmer in the world...lol.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pilgrim011:
And how can this replace multitasking? For example, you have Garmin (or iGo, NDrive...) running, and then a call comes in. After the call is finished, you have to start your navigation app again, search for the satellites, enter the route. Or, you have some 3rd party internet radio/music app, then you receive SMS. You just want to read that SMS and maybe reply to it while music continues in the background, but you cannot do that - there's no multitasking. There are hundreds of examples why multitasking is needed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Microsoft could have several OS "services" that provide several sources of "information", for example: SMS, Call, GPS, etc ...

Think this OS service is just like a service, running in the background.

This services are used by, for example: live tiles to update information ...

And it can be used by application as well, which is running at that time.

Now, imagine your Garmin scenario.

The WP7 Garmin app is using GPS service of WP7, which enable Garmin app to fetch GPS data.

When the call comes in, the Garmin app UI will be "paused", but the GPS data is still coming in via this OS service, just like the live tiles (note that Microsoft does not limit that live tiles can only be Microsoft app).

When the call ended, the Garmin UI resumed and the GPS data will be updated to the latest received location fetched from the OS service.

That would be a possible solution.

Anyway, let's wait MIX10 ... this evening (Europe time) !
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
The GPS example is a bit of a stretch, if the application is just "paused" you don't need to reenter routes and wait for the whole startup sequence. The music example is indeed a problem without multitasking though.

As a matter of fact, Garmin or iGo or what not just read data from the COM port. The data is written there by the GPS driver, which is a "service" in this context, so the only thing you need to do is not to stop GPS while your satnav app is paused. There is a problem with this though, when exactly do you stop it? A user may not return to the satnav app, and your battery will just die. However, this can certainly happen with multitasking as well.

In any case, hubs and tiles have nothing to do with it, I frankly have no clue why some people think they may be a substitute to backround apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Shasarak:
Well, be sure to define what you mean by "multi-tasking". :) The important distinction is between A: an application still being loaded in memory, but being suspended or paused unless it's in the foreground, and B: an application actually continuing to execute while in the background. Both of these could be described as "multi-tasking" but the difference between the two is crucial.

Current best guess is that built-in utilities will use method B, while third-party apps can only use method A; but this is what we need to confirm.

Assuming method A is the only option for third party applications, the follow-up question then is "what are the work-arounds?" and at that point it becomes reasonable to consider live tiles, push notifications, etc. and find out what their capabilities are.

Ask them about an upgrade for the HD2 as well. :) And, if one is unlikely, ask why - is it buttons, does the HD2 lack a "hardware scaler", etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Probably, the OS will prevent screen update (redraw / repaint event), ignore Windows event/trigger things like that when the app is "paused".

But the "reading" of the data is still allowed (by means, certain API are allowed to run on the background on a special thread).

:D

NOTE: The hub and tiles are just example, because the way they work = multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
There's a thing called "Tile notification", when a push notification can be sent to a tile instead of your app, and some information on the tile will be updated. I fail to see what it has to do with multitasking, it's the same thing as iPhone's "Badge notification".
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Ok, I got it ... about that notification.

So basically those tiles are stopped, not running.

As soon as there is notification, the "master tile app" will feed that notification to the tile and the tile will "wake up" to update its data.

Not only when there is notification, but probably also "periodically", all tiles will be touched by the master tile app .. "Hey dude, show some animation" :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Yes, such "master tile apps" are usually event driven, they "subscribe" to certain system events, and whenever a relevant one is "raised" (a notification comes, device power state changes, the user switches to home screen or presses a button), they do something (e.g. update a tile or all tiles).

Most programs behave the same way, actually, they don't need to "run" as in "do something constantly". The way push notifications work though is that your app, when paused, doesn't receive anything. Instead the system redirects notifications to the home screen app/service/whatever. So you as a developer cannot do anything when it arrives, you just kindly ask the "master tile app" to update the screen when you are "out of office" so that the user will be able to launch your app when something new has happened. On the iPhone, there are "Badge notifications", which have an effect of updating the number in a circle on the icon on the home screen (so the user sees the number of new emails, for example), or trigger annoying "Alerts" (the modal dialogs that pop up), or trigger sounds. That's very different from WM model where your app can subscribe to lots of different events (for example, I have an app that waits for hardware key presses, intercepts them, and processes certain keys, preventing default action and doing something else instead, acting as a "service"). For the latter to be possible, you need true multitasking available to third parties.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
It comes back to the same answer every time.

There are just a few, yes just a few "core" applications that make sense running multitasking. They are what the every smart phone has nowadays i.e.

Phone, SMS, Email, internet, music + social network updates (tweeter, chat, etc) + Navigation.

apart from these, nobody on this whole XDA forum has ever been able to justify true multitasking for any other application. All other apps would be ok to be in a hibernate/sleep state if they are not in foreground.

What I am curious is how WP7 handles the Xbox games....will they multitask true or will it allow only the "phone" to operate when playing games?

Will find out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pilgrim011:
It's the same thing as on the PC. That's hard for you to understand, because you're an iPhone user and iPhone cannot do things that Pocket PC can, so you don't understand me. Let me try to explain. Another example: I'm downloading a file from rapidshare (I know, you don't see the logic in it, but I'm using my Pocket PC instead of PC when I'm not home), it's a large one, and while downloading I'm using my phone regularly - talking on the phone (yes it's possible via 3G network - downloading continues in the background), replying on text messages, surfing the web, copying part of the text from a webpage to 3rd party office app (SoftMaker Office), extracting .rar file that I transferred earlier to my phone, sending something to a friend via BT, using my FTP client, then my mail client informs me that I have new mail,and I'm reading pdf file that is attached to it. Not all of this is multitasking, but I'm trying to explain that there are many things that you can do at the same time instead of waiting for one of the tasks to complete. In my example, I'm reading pdf file (via 3rd party app Adobe Reader) while downloading from RS via Opera Mobile (another 3rd party app), or using SoftMaker Office, FTP etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rdude:
Sure, maybe there are only a few categories of apps that make sense to multitask. But do you realize you've named pretty much every category of mobile app there is? I want to be able to choose which apps multitask, not be stuck with the core ones Microsoft or Apple provides. If I want to play Grooveshark in the background while tracking my bicycling with my exercise app *and* having a custom web server running that people can access to see my route, I should be able to do that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
I am not an iphone user.

I use the ATT Pure. I gave my iphone(s) to my family members.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
by the way, iphone downloads files in background. so what is so special about WM?

The other day I downloaded copilot live on the iphone (took couple of hrs).

It did that in the background.

Also all app download/installation happens in the background. Once you select an app, you are switched to the home screen and you can do what you like while the app is downloaded and installed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
No can do....Use ZUNE to listen to music my friend

Lost revenue...MS cannot afford that...It is the thing that is making money for Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pilgrim011:
Well, that's good news.:D Anyway, until month or so, you were an iPhone user who just bought Diamond 2 (ATT Pure) as a second phone - at least that's what I remember from your earlier posts.;) Btw., how come that you gave up on iPhone?

That was just one of my examples - the others are relevant as well. Btw., you were downloading an app from AppStore, but you cannot download file from RS, CNet, MU - any site in the world. And on WM you can do whatever you want - whether it is mp3, rar, zip, pdf, xls etc. Anything you want, from every source in the world - web site, forum, hosting site...

That is so special about WM.:cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] rdude:
Yeah, my point exactly. This is just a revenue grab by Microsoft the way the iTunes lock-in is a revenue grab by Apple. It's something I just won't stand for. I'm glad XDANDROID is coming along so nicely.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Just heard from MIX WP7 does not support MULTITASKING for 3RD PARTY APPS! They do however support save states.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
How is a loss of revenue if someone doesn't use the default music app?
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
history is a bit skewed. Reality is that I started life on Win Mo using the Siemens SX-66. Then had a Nokia 6682, got a Sony P910i, got another line with Samsung Blackjack-ii, upgraded another line to the LG-VU(CU920), upgraded earlier line to iphone 3g(gave it to my wife), and upgraded other line to ATT Pure, and upgraded the 3g to 3gs.

got it? ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
Control....onoe way to get in...one way to get out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
I agree, but that has nothing to do with multitasking.

Everything is revenue oriented now. If you want content, they want you to pay for it by downloading from their website. sucks...
[Windows Phone 7 General] mazzarin:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that if the dev leverages a 'core system', e.g. the Zuneaudio system, your app will continue to "half-function" in the background.

So for the GPS example, assuming there is an intermediate GPS handler built-in to windows, apps like CoPilot would continue to be able to track your progress and push notifications to the screen when appropriate. Audio may even be possible if they use the correct systems but it seems somewhat unlikely.

The distinction I'm making for audio is 'Zuneaudio' audio and 'regular' audio like beeps. A ZuneAudio systemwould be like Scilor's GrooveMobile app piping an mp3 to ZuneAudio for playback, whereas CoPilot's "turn right in 150m" would go through normal audio channels and wouldn't be eligible for playback-while-backrounded.

Yes?
[Windows Phone 7 General] iusauser:
Hi

What about this article? ..It sounds promising, about multitasking in WP7:

//bolingconsulting.com/blog/?p=46

It will be so dark the future of WP7?, Or can still be optimistic?

best regards
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ca5c4d3:
Windows Phone 7 is based on Windows CE. Windows CE had multitasking since day one so your device is capable of multitasking. WP7 however will only allow us to write apps based on Silverlight 4. Silverlight 4 is a cut down version of WPF and it is fully sandboxed for added security and stability. That means it can only access limited parts of your device. In the WP7 implementation, SL4 doesnt support multitasking the way that it works right now. Your application is really killed as soon as you move on. Killed is a very strong word - lets say hybernated because it stops executing after its last state was saved. Your application can also "register" to events so that it can perform tasks. For example an alarm application wont run in background, however it registers with the runtime to be reactivated at the times you specified as alarms. Or an SMS message counter wants to be reactivated when SMS is received or send. This isnt really multi tasking and M$ are using the same concept with WF but:

You have more available memory at any time (no background apps :D)

Your device uses less power
[Windows Phone 7 General] sottyc:
I dont know why some people keep saying multi-tasking is not needed? I dont NEED any of the BULLS**T that comes with my phone? Do I need a music player do I need a browser do I need dam GPS or a App that tells me what day my wife will be pissed off this month? NO

BUT it is amazing when you see real multi-tasking. Cant speak for other phones at the minute but iphone4= FAKE multitasking. N900 Maemo=TRUE Multitasking!

For heavens sake I used to be on a train watching FULL iPlayer on the browser not some add on app i could have that running in the background and still hear whats going on while I play a game. Then I could make all the apps come up as boxes and in them boxes the iplayer would still be running video aswell as all the other apps being open.

I have heard good things about android and hoping it does have real multitasking as Im going to grab myself a streak today.

But seriously. Unless you experience it...dont put it down. You wont want a phone without it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Besides from you doing topic necromancy, I think you don't understand multitasking.

I have a Android, and multitasking is pointless. You can't multi-task on a phone, you can run services in the background, that's it. Which WP7 also will allow, to a certain degree.

See the problem with Android is it comes with a million lame ass services, and every app and widget you install bring more lame ass services. Which you can't really stop, unless you install a TaskKiller, which eventually will result in you ****ing something up and having to do a factory reset (been there, done that).

Ideally we don't want every application out there to be able to run as a background-service. Like you don't want your sys-tray on Windows to be cluttered with useless applications/services you don't need.

In WP7, you will be able to listen to music while you find the nearest buss stop using GPS on a Maps application. This is multitasking enough for me, you, and pretty much everybody.

Phones aren't PCs, they have a strictly limited amount of battery, and only a single input-device. You can't expect them to be like PCs.

I'd give up multitasking for better battery-life on my Android phone any day. I'd also give up widgets for better battery-life any day. Both concepts are useless, and just put unnecessary strain on the phone's battery life, and thus overall lifespan.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sottyc:
As said use N900s new OS kills everything outright. Only downside is that its new! If being able to run iplayer on the standard browser in FULL desktop form while making that window smaller and opening your movie player and seeing both run at the same time on the same screen side by side is not "multi-tasking" I dont see what is.

Widgets etc fair enough is not multi-tasking. But this is. iphone4? Its the biggest con known to man. Lets pay some chinese people to make a phone with wages so low that everyone commits suicide that works for us then put in technology that is old enough to be on my grandmas phone such as video calling then release is and watch the worlds stupid sheep buy it.

Im going to start working for apple. The next phone will be cow manure with a apple logo and it will have CUSTOM ICONS AND WIDGETS WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW and then sell it for a stupid price.

Apple are pathetic and know as much about technology as the people who buy their phones. Pathetic con men.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Another downside is that Nokia completely stopped working on Maemo, so the N900 will be the first and only phone running Maemo OS.

They decided to write a new version of Symbian instead :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] sottyc:
Who cares about Nokia lol They should never have put their name on such a good device. Maemo are going to work alongside a intel creation now so it will be meego. AND the n900 will be updated to meego:D...not really going out of the game..just upping the game with intels help and moving up
[Windows Phone 7 General] ~~Tito~~:
Moving to general, nothing here that adds or changes WP7 currently. :cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
What's really funny is when you do a little research, both iOS and WP7 offer pretty much the same "multi-tasking"
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] iVisionX01:
Go grab it
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] mogambo000:
Opera sucks, stock browser is so much better.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] jerhoyet:
It is actually better than the stock browser in my opinion, the only reason I didn't want to switch to it was.the lack of multi-touch.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] diversificationied:
Very slick interface.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] iVisionX01:
I find that it doesn't load certain pages properly.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] mogambo000:
Hence the reason it sucks.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] grainysand:
Lack of multi-touch is a non-issue for me. The lack of kinetic scrolling, however...
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] jongie123:
I'll pass,default browser is much better.+ doesn't work well for xda-developers.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] lightforce:
everything loads weird, and the pictures are off, and no multi touch.

No thanks
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] maxawesome:
Right, but 90% page compression more than makes up for that, as does speed dial for bookmarks.

I have been an Opera Mini fan since the days of my HTC Excalibur and WinMo 6 stuck on EDGE on T-Mobile.

On HSDPA, pages load in a snap, MUCH faster than stock or Dolphin browsers, and when I switch to EDGE in certain areas on my train commute home, its nice to still be able to cruise the web without a hiccup.

But rather than ***** about lack of multi-touch, you could *gasp* email the developer and suggest they add that, since this is a BETA, and there's still time for them to integrate MT before the release of the full product.

Also, kinetic scrolling works for me.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] iVisionX01:
IDK it took me a long time to scroll down to the N1 section. In the stock browser I can do it in 1 swipe.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] maxawesome:
Check the settings. There may be an option for # of lines to scroll per swipe. I could be wrong as I haven't looked in this version, but I remember that being there for Opera Mini 4 on WinMo.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] iVisionX01:
Nah, there's no option like that in this version.
[Nexus One Themes and Apps] Fresh2Death:
The pictures were misplaced and all over the place. The words on the web pages were misplaced and all over the place. The images were very poor quality. Had no multi touch. To sum things up, I uninstalled this browser almost instantaneously. Nuff said.