yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
True, however: iPhone has 16 apps on one page.

5 pages - 80 apps.

Microsoft makes these hubs, when you'll add 80 apps to your homescreen

I believe it will be pain to srcoll down....

Maybe I'm wrong.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
This is not true. C'mon.
[Windows Phone 7 General] daniel-t:
You wont add all your apps to the start screen. Only the ones you like or use most. All apps appear on the Application List, to the right of the start screen.

At present it is a flat list, but if apps become plentiful, I am sure we will get an update allowing category Quick Jump List, or letter Quick Jump Lists on this App List.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Prove me wrong.

Just compare to Symbian. What does it got today? Nothing, absolutely nothing to compliment it. It's not that hard to understand that people want a lifestyle gadget, where loading music is dragging it inside a music application to the image of their iPhone.

And the same music application should sell them music, and get them album art, information and so on. In a seamless slick layout that makes it look attractive and non-geeky.

People want smart/fancy lifestyle tools, that combine their social network, interests, taste of music, with a tool for phoning and calendar management. In a slick modern interface.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
First of all, not all the people.

That's why PC, even with a slick UI, still is a powerful device.

The same should be maintained in smartphones.

Secondly, people want what is cool and jazzy.

Devices before were not, so the've had small sales.

Even if they were slick and could do more anybody imagined.

It's all about hype. And now all the market turns to this - make hype, sell hype.

And compromise real functionality. It's a bold fact.

And let's just hope Microsoft is not that stupid to stop at this level.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
It's not just hype. Symbian is a terrible platform, and offers nothing attractive like iOS does.

And the Smartphone is not a PC. People buy it because it's not a pc, they already have a pc and a laptop, why would they possible want something to resemble that for the 3rd time?

And try find me pictures of "slick" phones before the iPhone. ("slick" generally means NO PHYSICAL KEYBOARD)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Sorry but you're wrong.

Who told you "slick" is without keyboard?!

Silly.

Well Symbian NOW is crap. But back in 2007 or 2006 it was great, and attractive

especially in UIQ version. Yet the sales were not comparable with contemporary sales.

Slick and attractive devices? Nokia N93. SonyEricsson P910, P1.

Of course it's not only hype. It also has a lot to do with human lazyness, once something is not idiotically simplified, it will not be massively popular.

And a smartphone IS a pocket PC. That's why people get it instead of feature phones, I don't believe you're so clueless. That's why people buy very advances applications, to replicate PC functionality.

And of course, current smartphones hardware ENABLES huge part of available functions from PC, but the POLICY disables this and this ****n game is unacceptable.

Why to implement any functionality on the device if it's crippled.

That's bull****.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
More screenspace and no cluttered keyboard = slick to non-techies. You haven't relaised why touchscreen smartphones sells much better than those with regulare keyboard?

And talking about how things were four years ago is irrelevant.

Also, a smartphone is NOT a pocket-pc!. PC indicate tool, smartphone indicate lifestyle -- please, try accept this already.

Anyway, I figure you're just trolling. We post links, articles, arguments, and you just refrain to respond to any request to backup your statements, or put justification into your opinions. This is getting silly. 85 pages of idiocy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
No Mr I'm not trolling.

You are trolling here changing the purpose of the smartphone iPhone way.

Stick this "lifestyle" you know where.

I really hope you won't be invlolved in any future device's development.

And one more: many people told you here, sales is not indication of anything.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Go find some pictures of your fantastic phones from 2006, that was as slick and could do the same as a iPhone then! And sales indicate everything. If nobody uses the phone, there's squad interest in developing for them.

I mean, why are you even here, when you do nothing but complain about a unreleased phone you don't want to buy.

But no, I insist on you being a troll. I'll keep calling you a troll for the next 50 pages, since that reflect the way you argue.

Anyway, it's clear to me you don't understand the modern users, who's the target user group of iOS/WP7. Why don't you spend some time figuring out why this is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
So far this thread been like this:

doministry: WP7 sucks!

everybody else: <arguments why it's awesome>

doministry: WP7 sucks!

everybody else: <arguments why it's awesome>

doministry: WP7 sucks!

everybody else: <arguments why it's awesome>

doministry: WP7 sucks!

everybody else: <arguments why it's awesome>

doministry: WP7 sucks!

everybody else: <arguments why it's awesome>

doministry: WP7 sucks!

everybody else: <arguments why it's awesome>
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
You are a Troll here, Joined this month, probably supported by some company :D

Don't try to call me this way. I advise.

And I can complain as much as I want here, this is forum, and not YOUR forum.

And I will always argue with people who represent the mentality you represent - harmful IMO.

The reason is simple - I want to buy this device, but I don't like the direction Microsoft is taking in some areas.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Read other posts why in other's opinion WP7 sukcs ATM.

Thread topic: WP7 is complete FAIL

Make your thread and go away.
[Windows Phone 7 General] daniel-t:
No one buys a smart phone to do the things they do on a PC.

They do buy smart phones to do more than they would normally do with a basic phone.

There is a very different mindset at play here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Then give proper arguments for why you don't like it, instead of complaining about it being targeted a completely other user group than you're in.

It doesn't make sense to complain about the phone being minded upon lifestyle and young users, instead of business people who use it as a pocket PC. That type of argumentation gets you nowhere, and don't get the community anywhere.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That's the point: where did you get it from?!

"the phone being minded upon lifestyle and young users, instead of business people who use it as a pocket PC."

I say it's your personal guess. So WHY SharePoint, Email od Office??!!

Sorry, nonsense you say.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
That would be wonderful if WP7 actually supported Silverlight 4. It doesn't. No ETA on that either.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
Who says I'm not? This is a WP7 thread. Android has its own massive set of issues. Still, it does a hell of a lot mor ethan WP7 will. WP7's advantage over Android is XNA, XBOX, and Zune. Those are not exactly business user features.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thx1200:
Thank you for pointing out more failing in WP7 APIs.

If you are so unimaginitive that you can't see the value in having something do work in the background, then you have no hope. I've posted probably dozens of posts of things I would like to hang out in the background. Heck, if you look at my sig you will see two apps that do just that!

You apparently are quite happy with the default offering that MS is putting out. As I've said before, GOOD FOR YOU. But just because you are happy doesn't mean everybody else will be. The fact that you keep arguing with people saying things effectively like "you don't need that" or "you shouldn't need that" or "I don't need that and therefore you don't" shows that you are probably a young teenager who hasn't learned to play with others. Oh, that and the "oh I work for a company where we did usability studies but it's all confidential." LOL TROLL.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
The term Microsoft uses is "life maximizers". Check out the explanation at 6:30 in this presentation.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I pointed it out several places, several times. But you people are stuck in "OMG NO COPY AND PASTE"-complaints up to your over your ears, so you probably missed it.

If you're so imaginative, why don't you answer my bloody request then? Name some ****ing examples!

And a background-service API need to be split up in two. A data queue, and a streaming box, since streams obviously can't be queued. It'll then have to have some ways of limiting it, so performance don't go below zero, LIKE IT DOES ON ANDROID!

I'm not the one hiding who I am, or what I do. It's all public available.

You are. And last time I checked, only trolls were afraid to give out real information, as it would ruin their work!
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Of course. They want sales, they want market. That's obvious.

They want to attract as many different groups as possible.

Good. Normal.

But that doesn't make WP7 youngsters only centered device

nor writes off it's professional purposes and profile.

Again - some core apps on WP7 indicate what I'm saying.

And there's no reason why apps and the device should not have maximum abilities (possible on mobile device's hardware),

not only the ones which are limited by the decisions made only by corporation, not user.

And I still think that not following Microsoft route may cause more awkward actions than necessary. They don't work on broading ALL the possibilities, just the specific ones.

I'm interested for instance how well IE7 will really work. Not only load pages fast but actually how it will reneder some more complicated aspects of browsing. Nobody talks about it, instead of this saying how well social services work etc.

(Life Maximizer is planned for 30 year around, for "people who earn a little bit more money, and load apps on the device", so not really youngsters)

P.S. I have enough of Windcape agressive approach and childish scream here.

Anybody else?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You wouldn't expect us to suddenly start, you know, discussing technical issues, after 80+ pages of *****ing about copy and paste?

Now we just had so much FUN with you repeating your arguments for 20 pages, without listening or answering any requests to backup your statement.

Why even discuss anything, the phone is a COMPLETE FAIL according to you and thx1200.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Wrong, I don't have to swype at all on Android. It's a choice. All I have to do is look at my home screen to see the latest Tweet, the latest news, the weather, rss feed, play music, make a call, etc... I don't have to swype at all. Its called widgets, meaning easy access to information.

WP7 fails at this. Too much swyping.

Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Good life with your imaginantions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
And you're doing it again. When are you going to find pictures of your fantastic slick smartphones from 2006, with it's amazing userfriendly software, and useful application stores.

When are you going to give examples of real-life applications where multitasking makes sense? When are you going to provide links and proves of what you talk about?

Or are we going to read another 10 pages of useless complains and personal attacks?

At least I don't lack the imagination to what this platform can be used to. You do apparently. I hope you're enjoying typing with your stylus.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It's not, never has been, and never will be about the length of the feature list. These feature lists are only useful in geek forums for compiling comparison tables and giving people the illusion that they will make the most educated decision on what to buy.

It's catering to specific scenarios and use cases ("experiences", if you will) that matters. For example, WM and Android have "file system acces", iPhone doesn't. What it translates to is however not as straightforward as it seems. WM gives you raw file system access out of the box and says, here you go, do anything you want with it. Android handles it smarter and has this automatic indexing. iPhone wants you to handle files within relevant applications. But guess what - you can download and handle files in all three systems. Not equally easily, with caveats etc., but all these approaches have their pros and cons. It's akin to APIs as in managed vs. unmanaged code. Sure, low-level raw access to everything is immensely more flexible. Sure, with high-level managed code you're only constrained to what's provided. Yet there's appeal in both approaches.

The iPhone did manage to make a set of experiences that worked - sometimes beautifully, sometimes just okay, but everything was fast, smooth, consistent and easy. And that's what made it successful.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
One thing I can see with the way Microsoft is going with WP7 thus far, is they are doing their best to make sure everything just Works out of the box. Of course this does not mean everything will be included on release (Flash, C&P, etc) but what is in the phone will work and work well. I believe a lot is also missing from the Developer Phone's that has already been proven to work. (Netflix streaming, Bing Voice Guidance, 3D Gaming.)

Once the phone is out, devs have their apps coming out, and people start responding to the phone, Microsoft can measure the market, get updates out, change little things here and there, and have full control to make sure every phone works and works well. Similar to the iPhone more than android since they will be able to release the OS on many different phones, but able to keep every phone "up to date" without the need for the carrier to release the update. That is a big plus in my book.

Also don't forget where you are posting. Their is no way WP7 will stay "Stock" forever around here. Android has its limits, iPhone has its limits, WP7 will have its limits, but those limits were made to be broken. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)?wasRedirected=true

LG Prada, first touch screen only phone. Looks like LG got ripped off.

Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
@vangrieg: Very well said.

Funny enough, the reasons most people give that it didn't become a success was that it didn't have enough compliment software for the PC.

It basically didn't provide the "total experience", but was just "yet another mobile phone". So Apple won on, you guessed it, iTunes. (How horrible iTunes may be)
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
Also I know a lot of you guys are talking about "No Multitasking" but last I checked the Netflix Streaming APP isn't exactly built in, yet in the dev preview demo, It is paused and ready to go in the background as well as fully intigrated into the Mucis+Video hub.. Funny that.

http://www.windowsphone7.com/multimedia/media13
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Yeah, it's using tombstoning to pause it. It's just hard to get into people's head that it's a good way of do what most "multitasking" apps does today!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
remember when the iphone first came out? People were saying its not a smart phone, and the big reason everyone kept pointing out is that it didn't have...... and it couldn't........

Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
First: it's you who agressive and attack people becuse they disagree with your fanboism.

Second: apparently you're the only person here who doesn't get the basics. I'm sorry for that. Maybe just learn and come back.

Three: stop talking "We". It's "You". You're not a voice of anybody else here.

Four: People complain because they miss something basic, not because they desperately want to discuss with you.

Five: Mr, let's wait until WP7 will be on market, until than shut up about any other platfrom's problems. Let's rather see what Microsoft will introduce.

Six: I love stylus 100% over finger.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yeah, and they apparently bring it.......
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
No, it's clearly you spraying out endless QQ and personal insults and attacks. And you still haven't backed up any statements whatsoever.

And it's very clear you don't get the basics of anything.

You're just another troll.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
But just don't cry.

No other way than offending...

Watch out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Da_G:
Hey guys,

I've already stuck a warning in this thread once, but that was for vulgar language. Now we're getting into the realm of personal attacks...

Please tone down the confrontational attitude. I'd rather continue to be able to read all your valuable opinions in this thread than have to lock it. Not directing this to one person either, there are several "offenders" here :)

Thanks!

PS: On an unrelated (to this post, but related to the topic) side note, I hear that work on "7.1" is now well underway and there are engineering resources dedicated to feature addition in that branch. So the feature set we see now with 7 is taped out, but more is already on it's way through the pipe :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That is nice to hear...
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
There's valuable opinions in this thread? I must've missed them (I'm including my own in this) lol.

Sooo any idea what those features are? Don't give me that fight club garbage. Didn't you see the movie? Spoiler alert, the dude was crazy and it was all in his head! :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Hold up, OMG there going to add Copy & Paste! What's next a folder hub? What about Wallpapers for the start screen? OMG!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I still think this thread should be locked. Imagine if I went to any other section, wrote a topic with FAIL in caps, and provided some out-of-my-arse arguments, and repeated the for 800 posts.

Pretty sure it would get locked down, or people would have the dignity to let it die out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
I agree Da_G lock this thread (and a few other Fail threads while your at it) and stop the madness. No matter what, the phone is not out yet, things are still not 100% finalized till it is out in customer hands so things can and will change. A lot of people only see what is available at the present and as you have already stated, WP7 already has a 7.1 in the works, no reason to think we would get 7.0 and not get updates shortly after for something this new and important to Microsoft. Makes complete sense to get what they have done, working 100% then start the new additions completely separate to make sure things don't break other thing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I'm actually going to unsubscribe this thread after this very post for a few reasons. I really appreciate the support I've gotten for a few of my posts. I agree with the OP that WP7 will not do well unless they advertise it well. I also think selling billions doesn't make it a quality product. I stand by my opinion and I think anyone who agrees is very smart.

PM is fine if you disagree, but I can feel the heat coming and I'd like to back out before this turns into a *****fest between moron and moron.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Da_G:
Hokay then, let's put the thread to rest :)

Locked!
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Ah, that makes sense, and this is widely known? So then I must ask you, why would developers be interested in this?
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I offer a theory on why the Windows Phone 7 developers have left Microsoft to work on their own applications...

THEORY: Microsoft will be developing policies for their Marketplace that limit the type and focus of applications. Meaning, there can be only ONE kind of app. So if you develop an RSS feed reader/browser, Microsoft won't allow another one in the Marketplace. The developers have left to be the first on the scene and capitalize on applications. This is the only way leaving your cushy Microsoft job for a full-time app-developer role is logical.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
I don't know. Probably because it is easy to write apps in .NET and Silverlight.

I'm sure they have protection mechanism, they had MIX workshops on that, but every protection can be cracked and from what I know, the protection they use is of the easier ones to crack.
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
no they wont, your theory is way off
[Windows Phone 7 General] landslide:
Have you ever heard of Lutz's Reflector? Now owned by RedGate : http://www.red-gate.com/products/reflector/

It's definitely not hard, and proper obfuscated IL (not just renamed local variables) generally crawls on these mini-me devices - they have a hard enough time already, obfuscation is a trade off against performance.
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
Haha, the Stone could have Multitasking and 3rd Party Shells though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
i wonder does the stone have a fm radio
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
No but you can easily tweak it so that it does.
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
lol my rock radio rocks:D
[Windows Phone 7 General] chalid:
thats a little shortsighted. sure, the system might be better than the old one, but everything gets hacked shorter or later. iPhones OS and appstore are closed too, but still there are ways to get the apps for free ...
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
yeah your right before i gave my iphone away it was loaded with cracked apps, but with wp7 im gonna buy my games/apps cuz i wouldnt want them to try to ban my xbox profile because i was using cracked games
[Windows Phone 7 General] chalid:
yeah ... but not everybody has an xbox account or cares about it ...

the next thing is: xbox = mod it and get banned. will microsoft handle WP7S the same? jailbreak = ban ...
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
no because you dont get your phone service from them
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Why is that way off? They left abruptly earlier this week (or was it late last week).
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
because they already said that they are staying away from the way apple does there marketplace & they will be transparent & make the guidelines simple so there wont be confusion, so they wont let just 1 app of its kind in the marketplace, they want as many apps in there so they came make there 30%