yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I do use it occasionally. I do see the usefulness of it. I wish MSFT would have time to add it before launch but they don't. They have stated that they are going to add it. What else do you want? You're beating a dead horse. It would maybe be one thing of they said they weren't going to but they are! If you're going to continuously whine about something, at least do it about multitasking which they have not committed to.

With that being said, I still don't see what the big deal is. Yea, C&P is nice but it's not the end of the world without it. At least they have hot linking of the main things you'd use it for.
[Windows Phone 7 General] daniel-t:
No matter how much you complain about it, Copy & Paste, along with multi-tasking, and more open APIs, will not be coming until a future release.

So if you dont want to buy one and wait for the updates to come, dont get one! Better than watching you ***** and moan about it. First Release, is about getting the basics right, and introducing everyone to the new UI design, and how the OS and apps should be structured.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Valid points.

However, if you plan a massive success with a totally new UI, after soooo many years,

I advise to make things ready rather than later. May be too late.

I'm saying if they'd propose a complete OS it would be much better push for them.

Now you see people praising it together with moaning about it. It's clear.

As for me I'm attracted to WP7, but also distracted because of it's limitations.

I desperately search for confirmation this is may be my future OS..... Or not.....
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Yea, and I'd like a million dollars in my bank account. But sometimes things just don't work that way. I'm sure Microsoft would love to have these things figured out if for no other reason than for them to not have to answer these questions/criticisms over and over again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes that's true. But the Vista crash was their fault right?

Not "circumstances".

So we're here users who are critical about things.....

Of course they have reasons. But some of them are not user friendly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Just an FYI to those that want to sit and say "then don't buy it", "this other phone is better for you", "stop complaining/moaning/etc"

Agreement is boring.

Disagreement and argument is interesting.

Stop trying to bore this thread up by saying boring statements like "to each their own". Everyone knows this already. Move along.

I'm a power user. WP7 sucks based on predictions. They'd better wow me or I'm not investing. Plain and simple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Good post rorytmeadows :D

Yep. Like the missing file system access. Huge issue for the user, but protects their content, like music. It's like on the iPhone, where every app has to bring its own mechanism for getting content onto the device and with every new app, users have to learn how to do it. That sucks. Totally un-userfriendly and of course also un-developerfriendly. There's nothing easier that a simple drag&drop, which works perfectly on Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
They might.

Personally I'm a developer, and it's definitive the most attractive platform to make applications for, with the best possible tooling available, and the most interesting business plan.

And from a consumer PoV, I'm in love with the Metro layout, the Hubs, and the hardware requirement and uniform buttons.

I don't think superusers can expect many phones like Google's Nexus One on the overall market. It's important to understand the business decisions behind things.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Yes, and I think it's important to break down the audiences like you did.

As a developer, (if I had time and didn't have a kid on the way) WP7 is by far the most intriguing and attractive to develop for. I agree.

As a consumer, it varies.

If I'm drunk off my ass and hanging with a bunch of other drunk friends, yeah MetroUI is pretty f-ing cool and easy to use if I needed to drunken message someone or show off the latest meme.

If I'm sober and trying to get some work done relevant to my career, sure, it's OKAY at best. I do a lot of snipping documents and communication without social network integration.

But personally, beyond mentioned above, I would have little use for the phone. It could NOT be an integral part of my life because it doesn't have all the features that are necessary for that.

Are those features coming in the future? Maybe. But until then, it's not worthy of my money. It's best to break all that down into numbers.

Drunken show-off phone: 8/10

Work phone: 5/10

Personal use/hobbiest phone: 2/10

Even my TP2 with Windows Mobile 6.5 gets 5/10, 7/10, and 8/10 respectively.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I don't see how the Metro UI would be a problem here. The interface is ideal for all type of applications, and means you have to spend less time navigating the phone, and more time on what you're meant to do.

This should give it more points than say, the iPhone. And even more if you use Exchange/SharePoint ;)

What features would that be? And don't say c&p and multitasking, because then I'll hit you with a stick.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Besides the 2 obvious ones you mentioned, file exploration, network file/folder sharing, default program switching, drag-and-drop file transfer (although I'm hearing a variety of things on this one), integration of TWO Facebook accounts (work and play), using apps and mods that aren't approved by MSFT, and editing the registry, startup items, and process manager.

For some of those items, you may respond by saying that MSFT limited multitasking and bloatware, so you don't have to worry about startup items or the process manager. I say, that's not up to anyone else but me. Google thinks they need to run a ToolbarNotifier and GoogleUpdate in the background of your desktop too for some stupid ass reason, but we don't need any of that. I want CONTROL of my device.

Then there's the long list of things that could be up for app development much later then first release of WP7 that I'd either have to wait for, develop myself, or never experience again because nobody wants to do it...IM+, SiriusWM6, GPSWeatherRadar, etc. etc...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Well, these are supported, just not the way you think of them. Files aren't ordered in a regular file-system, but accessible from the individual applications that supports them. (A resource dictionary). And file/folder sharing is done though the Windows Phone Live system.

Sure could be nice, but would go against Microsofts business plans, in the same fashion as Google on Android. I think we'll have to accept that the phones are a great deal cheaper due to this not being a option.

But as with all file-related issues, WP7 is different and is more a sync/cloud resource dictionary of content, than a regular file-system.

You wouldn't buy a phone because of this? I don't believe you. The approval is a joke, it's merely a question of ease of distribution.

There's no registry, it's Silverlight based! Only necessary background services will start up, and I'm sure you can disable GPS/wi-fi to save power if needs to. And so you wouldn't need a process manager, due to the way tombstoning works.

But you wishes for non-existent control. That's the problem.

I'm sure if there's enough users for it, they'll be remade.

The Sirius Player would be cool, but I live in Europe, so won't be me who'll do it ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Sound like some of you guys would do better with a Micro PC instead of a phone.

Is video chat even talked about for WP7?

Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
It does exist. In Windows Mobile 6.5 and all other modifications. It also will exist when the device is hacked up. Then unfortunately, I'm going to have to go to the warranty-voiding and sometimes illegal side of things. My defense is that big companies appealing to idiots made me do it.

You can get it! I have heard of a lot of people overseas that subscribe to the online content and get it streaming! They love it!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
No, I mean you ask for control over features (such as registry or file-system) that virtually don't exist in the WP7.

Their only shows I like is those by Steven Van Zandt, so find it a bit to expensive to buy atm. :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tim.Smith:
I don't get why people talk like the phone is feature complete and will never ever change. The major ommissions like copy/paste and multitasking will come sooner rather than later I'm sure and the enterprise support will grow rapidly after launch I'm sure as well. I don't get why people have to be some whiney and negative. Some people are literally throwing tantrums.
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
they wont abandon office mobile, remember at mwc the office hub?

my guess is that putting presentations and spreadsheets and word documents will be a part of the synchronization process..
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Editing documents does not work without copy and paste.
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
i use to use it more, but know i really dont i guess i dont use my ppc as a ppc maybe thats why i want wp7 but wm in its current state was just to bad & unpleasant to use & as far as downloading im opposite of u kinda i use to send the links from the pc to my phone with sprint online text site cuz i dont like download things on my pc unless its a rom cuz i keep everything on my storage card anyway & i think MS realizes that its 2010 & i think wp7 is a breath of fresh air even in its limited current state
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
maybe there is copy & paste just not between apps?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Even then it sucks.
[Windows Phone 7 General] init66:
wm7... iphone... fun for kids, but no more fun for tech. folks... :(
[Windows Phone 7 General] Pitchb3nd:
Wow what a disaster... I see my HD2 with more love now that I know it'll be the last real awesome WinMo device...

At least we have Android for an open system, I hope MS fails, they deserve it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I am extremely sad after hearing today's news. I cannot believe that Microsoft is choosing to go the route they are. I am no longer interested in development. Everything that Microsoft stands for is what they are going against with WP7S. It's really really really sad.

I can only hope that their business style will continue. This is NOT going to be a business-friendly device at all. I will not get a phone that I need to use an app store to get all my apps. I will not get a phone that doesn't allow me to look at all of the files and file structure on it. I will not get a phone that limits multitasking. THIS IS WHY RAM EXISTS for Christ sakes.

I thought I would feel old with my Touch Pro 2, but it looks like it will be the last hurrah for Windows Mobile. So so sad. I really hope and pray for an ONSLAUGHT of negative articles based on this new MIX10 information. WP7S developers really need a check of reality.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Agreed. Good post.

And by the way, MS officials said they left out copy and paste intentionally - which means it will not be added.

Also there is NO COPY AND PASTE IN OFFICE.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Yeah and it really doesn't make much sense. No copy and paste in office? Ugh. If you think about it, they probably limited it so they can integrate everything, meaning that when you click on a number on a webpage, it will call the number from the phone. If someone sends you a text, you can click on the link and it opens up in their f*cking uninspiring Internet Explorer rather than whatever browser you want. Don't be going and copying those links and putting them in your own browsers now!!! /sarcasm

F*CK
[Windows Phone 7 General] Mithent:
I like the new Metro UI, and while it always seemed likely this was going to be a break from WM6.5 with no backwards compatibility, I accepted that and was quite interested in the platform. WM could do with a fresh approach.

But now after all this, it's just looking like iPhone OS 2.0 with a different interface and none of its app catalogue. It's locked down in all the same ways, and doesn't even match the current iPhone OS 3.0 if it's going to lack copy and paste. There's going after the iPhone market and there's just copying an older version of the iPhone wholesale; other than aesthetics, why choose this?

The only hope I have for the platform now is that it will be easily jailbroken to allow multitasking, sideloading and other missing features - it's still WinCE under there. Hardly the way it should be, though, and never thought I'd be talking about Windows and jailbreaking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Yes, that is true.

But the good UI does not mean features must be removed. Too bad the OS with the best UI sucks so much because it lacks all the important features.

Yes, it looks exactly like that. Sad.
[Windows Phone 7 General] htcplussony:
Well I resisted posting but this is going too far.

So when can we expect the no MMS announcement.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
haha so true
[Windows Phone 7 General] newshaggy:
Wp7 failed us all

I just cant believe what I am reading. If I said what was really on mind it would be cursing and absolute anger.

I am basically reading that the next iteration for Windows Phone will be the phone operating system I hate the most. Not even the most recent piece of crap version of it, the earliest piece of crap version of it.

WHY THE HELL WOULD I WANT TO DEVELOP FOR THIS!!!!!

Why would XDA want to even spend 5 minutes porting it to HD2 or any device for that matter. I wouldn't even offend my Audiovox Thera by putting this f*** crap on it. I am offended that they would even try to release this garbage. NO CUT AND PASTE - ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!! OMG.. SHOOT ME NOW! I will buy Microsoft the gun, just put anyone that had faith out of their misery......
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Actually, this is the exact reason why someone will develop on it. Security security security. No more hacking apps because the cabs themselves aren't free in space. They are locked into their marketplace and as long as there is no file explorer, there's no way to find any trace of them. Developers stand to make a ton of money from apps just like the Apple store, but that's only if people buy the phone.

Apparently, Microsoft expects everyone to just buy Windows Phone 7 because it's going to be as popular as others. People buy Windows Mobile now because it isn't like the competition. I'm not buying a phone that doesn't let me see its innards.

And while I'm thinking about it, Windows Phone 7 will support DRM. That's right folks, music is locked up. I'm sorry, but I'm with the majority of the world when I say I do not like paying for music. Charge triple for concerts, I don't care, but it's clear the public majority has spoken: DO NOT LOCK MUSIC.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Actually no. Since it is all managed code it is easy for thieves to steal even the source code!

Much worse than just stealing .cab files.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
How would you get it, though? I'm so-so tech savvy but know the basics and I immediately think of security for developers when I hear about all these new limitations.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Managed code is compiled "in time". Sure there are some protection mechanisms but nevertheless thieves can steal the source code. They will find ways to do this for sure.

This is not possible with already compiled binaries that are in .cab files.
[Windows Phone 7 General] htcplussony:
... I kinda just realized MMS in wm6.5 and before is handled by 3rd party add-ons so maybe it was Apple that initially copied Microsoft.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
It took Apple three years to add those features. Have fun waiting.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
However the parallel is not the case here.

Remember that Apple was absolute newcomer in the phone industry.

Microsoft is working on REGAINING the position they've lost,

they were pioneers of smartphones back in 2000...

And Apple is a trendy and jazzy maker of hardware having all

to create hype.

Microsoft does not.

So, completely different stories.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
Yes, and they release 1 phone a year. Microsoft, Google, and other reasonable companies that aren't dumb enough to put all their eggs in one basket, release many.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Da_G:
Just a small note to interject while reading this engaging thread... there most certainly is a registry (it works nearly identical to CE5/WM6.x with image update packages and their accompanying .rgus which get compiled into registry hives)

Just that this time we can't access the registry from userland.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Fair enough :) But if no applications can access it, I can't imagine it would make much sense to have administrative access to it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
So you think Microsoft is faster?

When was the last time they updated their Windows Live services and software? They've been promising integration of their services for years, yet there's still nothing... (well, OK, now there's at least a beta)

OK, let's say they're three times faster than Apple. That means multitasking will come in... one year?

Great!
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
You seem to think that Apple and Microsoft are comparable. Microsoft makes serious products. Apple is full of egotistical dorks in denial that make gimmicky toys.

Expect it much faster than a year.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
I don't expect it much faster than a year.

Other than that, you are right. Apple is full of egotistical dorks in denial that make gimmicky toys.

WP7 is definitely a lot better than what Apple makes. But there's other, real competition as well. Those guys with the green robot are much harder to beat than (cr)Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
That's true, but if you think about it, Microsoft HAS to get it out faster than a year, otherwise, don't bother releasing the OS. Game over.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Microsoft need to focus on supporting the remaining SL4 features, and C# 4.0 rather than meddle with useless features like copy&paste and multitasking.

A lot of the issues such as the lack of sockets is simply due to the phone not running SL4 yet. And another important feature in SL4 is support for context-menu's, which is a requirement to make copy&paste work in the first place.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
That's exactly my fear. I love the design, but there's no way I'm going to buy this before it's got multitasking, c&p, file system access and side-loading. And HTML5 and Flash.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
I agree completely (but that's boring).

Let's hope MSFT looks the other way on jailbreaking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Then you might as well leave and stay gone. You won't get filesystem access (as there's no traditional filesystem), you won't get multitasking (in other forms than the current "tombstoning") and you won't get sideloading apps ever (since it ruins business).

So either you get over those requirements, or you don't buy a Windows Phone 7. Simple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Multitasking - maybe. But probably more like iOS4 than Android.

C&P - Soon. Just drop this one already, I'm begging you lol.

File system - not a snowballs chance in hell

Side loading - fork over $99/yr (or enroll in school) and it's yours

HTML5 - Prolly be a while as it will take a IE9 code base to get there

Flash - Sounds like sometime in 2011

Part of me thinks they will but the other part says no way. The old WinMo team is really open to hacking. The Xbox team, which is part of E&D as well, is not at all. Microsoft has to protect the marketplace from piracy and Xbox from cheating. If there's some sort of hack that keeps those intact, I don't think they'll care much. For example if we figure out how to unlock devices for side loading without being a developer they might not try to stop it. Then again, they want that $99/yr. Soo who knows? Only time will tell.

One HUGE difference between Xbox and WP7 is the lack of robust hardware security and lack of complete MSFT control. Yea, the devices will have various protections on the boot loader, etc but that hasn't stopped us before. Maybe they've got some tricks up their sleeve?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Any other form of multitasking than tombstoning would be in form of a background-service API, something like the notification API I could imagine. It would basically allow you to queue background jobs in some global job queue, to avoid performance issues like on the Android.

But until we actually get socket support, there's little point in such a API, as you can't create any chat or specialized download applications in the first place!
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I wonder if the move to Windows CE 7 will allow for more multitasking. I'm just throwing this out there but some of the improvements on Windows 7 (desktop) was in the scheduler as it relates to how it handles recurring tasks. It will actually adjust instructions to execute at their "natural" point so that the CPU can sleep for longer periods of time. For example, if an app has a trigger that runs every 10 seconds and it starts at :02. The next time it runs it will run at :01 and the following time at :00. If the CPU is active it uses MUCH more power than it does if it's asleep, even if its barely even doing anything. This is especially true of modern ARM embedded CPUs. So while I really have no clue, I'm just guessing/hoping they might have brought this to CE7. Or shoot, they could just create a service for WP7 that does something like this. But the changes made in big windows are on a very low level basis in the OS scheduler itself.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
It got renamed btw. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/default.mspx

But yes, I'm certain it'll have a higher level of flexibility, as it's high a as high level of abstraction as WP7 is.

WP7 is the most abstracted mobile operative system you can find. But that also makes it super easy to develop for :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ari-free:
I could but then I could also check out docs2go, thinkfree office or several of the other mobile office suites available on other platforms. WP7 wouldn't have the special Microsoft advantage over those alternatives.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
This is true, but let's be honest, if you need to create an entire Office doc on your phone you're probably screwed on whatever that doc was supposed to be used for in the first place. Mobile Office (like other 3rd party solutions) is created more for editing and viewing existing docs rather than creation. The big advantage of WP7 is that those Office capabilities are built in (no need for another app).

As for the other stuff:

Copy/Paste: coming in one of the first updates (there's a little new info on that here: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/wheres-the-roadmap-for-windows-phone-7/2273?tag=content;feature-roto)

Multitasking: MS is waiting on how apps affect phone performance under real world conditions, something they're not going to know until after release. The probable implementation will be close to iOS4.

HTML5: Not until after the code freeze for IE9's rendering engine and are able to port it to Mobile IE.

Flash: Probably next year

File System access and Side Loading: lulz
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sorry, but for the life of me I can't find any new info following your link that would say that C&P will be coming in one of the first updates. There's a quote from Long Zheng which is old and unconfirmed (or even refuted by Microsoft in a way).