yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Spike, vangrieg... you're reasonable guys and all that you said makes sense. However, do you really think you can convince fanboys with logic?

They've shown that they can't think logically. Don't waste your time.

I mean, I've also bought an iPhone. Yes, it is a good phone. It's perfect for people who don't care about its flaws, but those flaws are there and can't be denied. And defending Apple is just stupid.

As a consumer, you want better phones, don't you? You're not going to get better phones, if you defend companies for making flawed phones.

You are the reason why Apple can go on restricting what people can do with their phones.

You are the reason why Apple can get away with using cheap materials and low quality.

Does it matter whether Apple makes a boatload of money? No, unless you're a stupid, brainwashed fanboy.

If you're not, you should rather make them improve their products instead of throwing your money at them and denying huge, obvious flaws.

No, restrictions don't help anyone but Apple.

No, the iPhone doesn't have good hardware.

No, HSPL is not necessary to make a WM phone multitask, accept apps from outside the Marketplace, enable it to be used as USB storage etc.

Yes, the iPhone does have a lot of advantages as well.

But if you want better phones, stop helping Apple sqeeze even more money out of the same crap by denying the obvious flaws. Apple doesn't give a **** about you. They only want to make money.

If they see that they don't have to improve their phones, they won't improve them.

If they see that they can get away with their restrictions, they won't remove them.

If they see that they can get away with cheap materials, they won't use better ones.

And it's fanboys like you who help them get away with that. Do they pay you for that? No. So what do you get in return?

Another restricted, flawed, cheap phone in June. That's what your fanboyism gets you!
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
And no, this does not only apply to Apple. The same applies to HTC, Microsoft and any other company.

Yes, nothing is perfect. There's nothing wrong with buying an iPhone, if that's what you think comes closest to being perfect.

But denying the obvious flaws is just stupid. It gets you nothing but more flawed phones. If you're not a stupid fanboy who wants "his" company to make money more than to make good products, you should stop defending them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
well without hard spl you stuck with what ever crap is on your phone but it's still useful to 99% of the users.

Without jailbreak you are stuck with what ever crap is on your phone but it's still useful to 90% of the users.

Now that was an even more stupid post because you don't even quote anything
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
you were lucky because someone(cmonex, Olipro) already spent 2-3 months getting the hard spl working for you. someone(bepe) also spent months making tools for a kitchen. someone(ervius) puts it all together in a kitchen. someone (da_g) dumps the newest builds and someone(put your cook here) had spent months or even years gathering hacks and tweaks so he could make a rom that was close to perfect for you. how much thanks to this people even get? far from enough

So yes it takes little more then 15 minutes to get it on the phone.

There also needs to be a hard spl for each and every model of wm phones and if the phone doesn't seam interesting enough there will never come an

hard spl.

and I'm not defending MS on the lock down of WP7 but I fully understand them doing it.

I already explained that in a post I made. but it's the same principle as someone said about windows and HP computers.

Windows Mobile devices have had many complains and most of the time it's the OEM to blame for lack of drivers of bad hardware. This has put Windows Mobile in a bad light. So MS setting standards will in the end be the strong point of WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
@gullum

And those jailbreaking tools for the iPhone come out of nowhere, right?

And forbidding file system access, multitasking, removing copy&paste etc. forces the OEMs to make better phones, right?

And WM loses lots of features without HSPL, right?

:rolleyes:

Kids, start using your brains!
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Come on guys ... stop feeding the trolls (Apple fanboys) ...

It is useless and waste of time, they are just minions who will do everything told by their God almighty Steve Jobs ...

Stop wasting your time, even when you told them thousands times about those facts, they won't listen.

To mods, why don't you close this un-productive thread?

Sorry to say this ...
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
Ouch...

Better tell your friends to stop buying from the chinese clone market.

That or the units available in the US market are build wayyy better.

My 3g is 2 years old and still looks like I just took it out of the box.

I will post some pictures for you to see.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Haha... no. No, they are not.

What you see there is a real iPhone and it's sold like that in all countries. And it's not an isolated case - scratches are the rule and hairline cracks affect tens or hundreds of thousands of iPhone users.

And it's stupid fanboys who deny the problem in order to defend Apple, that are responsible if Apple can get away with reusing the same cheap materials from the 3G in the 3GS and maybe even the next generation.

Luckily mine is only scratched - despite that I never ever put it on any hard surface or into the pocket without a case, cause I knew before how easily those things get scratched - but that didn't help me.

No matter how much you fanboys want to believe the iPhone isn't made of very cheap materials - it is.

But the biggest thing is: They knew about the issue with the iPhone 3G and nevertheless they used the exact same materials again for the iPhone 3GS.

Why can they get away with that?! Simple, because there are enough fanboys who keep lying about the issues and defending them!

Just accept the facts.

(I know - that's hard if you were brainwashed by Apple's reality distortion field)

Here's a quick Google search that will maybe get you back into reality: http://www.google.com/search?q=ipho...&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a

You can find lots and lots of posts like these:
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
Heh, go ahead-- continue to live in your fantasy world of WM perfection. At the end of the day at least my iPhone can consistently make phone calls, send and receive emails, sync contacts and calendar with Outlook, play music and videos, and browse the web. That's a lot more than I can say about my HD2. The only thing it can consistently do is keep generating new bugs I've never seen before.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
I haven't read through your past posts, so I'm probably missing some part of what your particular issue is, but just thought I'd throw in that I have iTunes on my PC syncing a few thousands song stored on my Win 2008 Server to my iPhone, and it's completely fine. I don't use iTunes for anything but iPhone sync purposes, but somehow it's much faster at playing network-stored music than WMP and the like (which generally have a slight delay before playing, presumably for buffering of some sort).

My primary annoyance in iTunes is that the UI threading seems poorly implemented (it sometimes appears to lock up or otherwise not respond when it's doing something). But at least it works consistently, unlike WMDC (which sat trying to sync my HD2 for 7 hours last night and managed to sync only some contacts and nothing else).

OGG and Flac make absolutely no difference to the vast majority of users, so it's a fringe usage case, though granted, it'd be a great addition for people who need it. Apple's controlling the whole experience and guaranteeing that everything works smoothly, and at the same time is defending its commercial interests as a content service provider, which means it's going to lock down certain things more than we power users would like. Certain things you can get around with a jailbreak, though obviously not iTunes' native format support (or lack thereof).

That said, I'd honestly much rather have something that supports 95% of what I want and works 100% of the time (iPhone) than something that supports 98% of what I want but works 50% of the time (HD2 on WM).

On the iPhone I always know what formats to transcode to- the HD2's performance (like every WM phone I've had) varies so wildly that there's never any safe bet. Sometimes I have 800x480 native-res h.264s playing fine (similar quality to the Transformers videos it shipped with), but sometimes the phone stutters badly and won't play anything smoothly.

It boggles my mind that even with such a powerful processor and so much RAM, something simple like moving through the Sense UI tabs on the HD2 sometimes causes MP3s to skip/stutter. In two years, only on one occasion did I ever hear my iPhone skip in a song, and that was with a few background downloads and an FTP upload going on together while playing a 3D game and listening to music on an iPhone 2G. WM could seriously use some of the iPhone's performance magic.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
You realize that this is most likely a placebo effect since CIFS/SMB is an abstracted part of the Windows file system, and therefore it's very unlikely that iTunes/WMP are aware in a true way that they are looking at a network share.

I sincerely doubt this. Windows CE is a real-time operating system, and WMP on Windows CE seems to fun either with an extremely high process priority, or in real-time, since even when the rest of the OS is locked up, WMP keeps playing...

...you can observe this phenomenon on desktop Windows (although WMP definitely doesn't run in real-time there, since as far as I remember Windows processes have to be running in Administrator space to be real-time).

Then again, maybe you're using a 3rd party player, in which case it's probably more the player to blame than the operating system.

For the record, I have never had either WMP on Windows Mobile or WMP on Windows stutter unless there was some point-to-point problem with the media (i.e. extremely high network traffic). I remember back in the 9.x days when the whole OS would be locking up and going into a bluescreen, and WMP would keep playing normally all the way up until the bluescreen appeared...

The problem with WM is that it's a slippery slope. If you flashed a good custom ROM and left it as-is, adding only a few programs that you actually use, then the operating system would probably run beautifully (in my experience it does). As soon as you get a lot of 3rd-party installs/uninstalls involved, and start tweaking the operating system (registry et cetera), then you're bogging it down. No matter what you say, 3rd-party applications have the ability to mess up the registry, and your tweaks have the ability to mess up the registry.

What gives iPhone the "advantage" here (note the scare quotes) is the extreme lock-down that Apple has. For the time being, Microsoft is content to leave what they install, uninstall, tweak, change, et cetera up to the user, which can potentially have disastrous results since developers and users may not know 100% what goes on under the hood of the operating system, and how changes they make are going to affect the performance thereof. Apple screens apps in the AppStore heavily, and as far as I know, you don't really have the degree of access to the operating system with iPhone OS as you do with WM.

It's the age-old argument that's been used time and time again with Windows. A platform that's that open allows users and developers to enter the fray, and an operating system cannot simply protect itself from compromises of that nature without becoming locked down a la iPhone OS. It ultimately becomes not a problem of the underlying operating system, but of what developers and users do to it.

With Windows Mobile it's increasingly complicated, since OEMs and carriers have their hands in the mix, adding carrier-specific programs (which are more often than not terribly written) and OEM-specific drivers and stacks (such as the dialer stack).
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
I assume WMP's doing some sort of buffering or something else that's taking a little bit of time. If I have a playlist of 50 songs, there's a slight pause if I click to a different song on WMP-- iTunes is virtually instant.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
I'm using the stock HTC media player, which I believe is just a skinned WMP.

I used to have this happen on my Blue Angel back on WM2003SE (WMP would pause/skip on occasion when I was trying to do too much stuff), and once in a while on the TP2 with HTC's player, but didn't think it'd happen on the HD2, being so much more powerful than both of those.

Of course, I had something much more annoying happen on the HD2 last week, which is that I was at the gym with my BT stereo headset on and suddenly the HD2's BT dropped out and it started blasting music from its speaker. The fact that it took me around 15 seconds to stop it because of lag was more embarrassing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
I guess that's why iTunes consumes ~150 megabytes of RAM and WMP consumes ~40.

I don't know how much you know about the concept of a real-time operating system, but this is what happens in real-time operating system if processes are all running in real-time -- the operating system has to be able to guarantee them timely responses to their interrupts, and therefore may waste a lot of time (and therefore overhead) switching control of the processor around rather than handling interrupts in a more logical fashion as would happen in a non-real-time system.

As for HTC's media player, I don't use that because (in my opinion) it's crap, and I'd rather stick with the bare minimum, built-in Windows Media Player.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
At the moment playing the same MP3 playlist, it's around 37 MB for iTunes and 25 MB for WMP on my machine.

In any case, with 12GB of RAM on my desktop and 512 MB on the phone, I really don't care-- it should just work :).
[Windows Phone 7 General] Zaim2:
Try syncing with a second copy of Itunes on a different PC on the same network to see his point.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
/facepalm

It's more than that -- how much memory a program uses to perform a certain task can say a LOT about the developer of that application.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
You learned nothing, did you? Stupid fanboy.

Well, at least you proved that I'm right, since you had to veer off... but too bad for you, nobody ever said WM was perfect. It isn't. You, stupid fanboy, put those words into other people's mouths, cause that's all you can do to defend your holy gadget - to distract from the talk about your holy gadget's flaws.

Poor. Very poor.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
Sure, but if one program performs the task well and the other doesn't, then a memory comparison is of little use. In the case of iTunes, it's also doing more than WMP is (think WMP + WMDC + ...), which also makes a straight comparison difficult.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
Leaving a good custom ROM as-is sounds good in theory, but I've never come across any WM ROM for my TP2 or HD2 that didn't have major bugs in it, so there's a continuous process of looking for patches to fix the bugs or flashing new ROMs hoping the old bugs will be gone (and in the process coming across new bugs). And the problem is, of course, that without custom ROMs, not only do you get no upgrades in WM, but the phones tend to be horribly slow (and in the case of the T-Mo HD2, quite buggy-- though custom ROMs have generally only made that part worse).

It goes beyond App Store apps though-- if you take a look at the assortment of jailbroken apps and tweaks available for the iPhone, many of them go quite deeply into the OS (and enable you to do pretty much everything you can on a WM phone). Big things like complete UI replacement are less common simply because the starting point is much better than with WM, but even that's available. But even the most modded-out jailbroken iPhones generally don't encounter anything close to the stability issues and bugs seen on WM ROMs.

And on WM, I'm not even trying to gain new features as much as I'm just trying to get a phone that works reliably. All the eye candy and YouTube-worthy HTC weather animations in the world can't make up for a phone that sometimes can't take phone calls because the lock panel freezes up, whose dialer panel disappears, that sometimes doesn't turn on without a soft reset, that often has inexplicable slowdowns with no background tasks, etc. It's not unreasonable to expect a ~$500 phone to at least do what a $10 phone can do.

Well the jailbroken iPhone provides a good example of greatly modifiable platform that's still stable and reliable. Of course, the platform has an advantage in that the OS is tailored to the phone, so there's no OEM or carrier in between to screw things up.

Apple seems to have much higher standards for OS stability and speed than the OEMs/carriers putting out WM phones. Under the WM6.x framework, there's not much Microsoft can do about it, but the problem is in the end, WM buyers lose out (with a phone that's not nearly as stable or usable as Apple's more "locked down" offering). So far WP7S looks like it's a few steps too far in the other direction for MS (essentially a Zune Phone), but let's see how modifiable it turns out to be (stock, it's useless for getting much done, at least so far).
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
I agree with that, though you're exaggerating a bit.

But who cares about WM? Maybe some still use it, but it's dying...

EDIT: Forgot to say, iTunes on Windows sucks.
[Windows Phone 7 General] cp_kirkley:
@amb9800 - I would wager that its more uncommon to see your setup in a consumer home than the plug and play NAS devices out there. I had a server until a baby took over my office and forced me to downsize my setup, hence the nas purchase. I wouldnt expect any issues to arise from a full blown server. But the whole point of a standalone nas is to effectively replace said server with something less space/watt consuming but still as functional given the tasks that you need it to do.

iTunes totally fails here because it has not gotten with the networking evolution in a timely or efficient manner. There just isn't an acceptable reason why that doesnt work the way it should.

It is/was big enough of a deal to me to sell my iphone and purchase an australian HD2 off-contract for double the cost. That is how frustrated I was. Now, if iPhone 4.0 or whatever it will be called come out and is a breath of fresh air, much like the 2g was, then I may consider them again. But if its just a 3G SS with racing stripes on it Apple can suck it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
iTunes fails here because its developers can't figure out what threading is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
iTunes sucks. ;)

It's like malware spread by Apple to slow down and crash Windows PCs... :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] cp_kirkley:
+1. I'm just trying to be as nice as possible about it. XD
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Agreed iTunes is never allowed on my computer.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
This image looks like the picture of a phone you would buy for your toddler....definitely not a real iphone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
If it makes you feel better when you lie to yourself... go on.

I guess those are also not real iPhones, right?

A quick Google search and you wouldn't have had to out yourself as a total moron!
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
These are defintely proper pictures.

The ones you posted earlier...I stand by my claim.....they are Fisher-price iphones.

Me and moron? How and Why? You claimed the defect. You prove it.

I do not need to google anything to find proof for your claims !!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
and by the way, what effect does the hairline crack have on the phone itself?

If you have any substantitated effects, let us know. Otherwise it is merely a cosmetic issue. Please do not state "possibilities".
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
You fanboys are an entertaining yet pathetic group.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
Right, but at the end of the day, what matters is whether the device works well or not-- not who to blame when it doesn't work.

WM simply doesn't provide the stability and consistent performance that the iPhone does. It's not directly Microsoft's fault, but the end result is that Microsoft's platform in WM 6.x is just not competitive from the standpoint of pretty much any user (normal consumers, for whom the standard iPhone is a heck of lot easier to use and more productive, and power users, who can jailbreak and make use of the full potential of the hardware, matching almost anything they could do on WM but with a much more livable, consistent, stable device).

I don't buy Apple laptops (their design is unmatched by anyone except Sony (only Sony's smallest laptops-- every Vaio >13" is junk), but I generally buy cheaper machines), but there will always be advantages to going vertically-integrated like Apple.

Battery life is a very prominent one. Take a look at any MacBook/MacBook Pro-- they get significantly better battery life than any Windows PC with similar internals and battery size. See the 15" MacBook Pro, for instance, which gets up to 8 hours of real-world battery life with a high-end C2D and GF9400 (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580&p=4 ). Try getting that on a similarly-specced PC without a huge external battery.

This is something OEMs have to customize on Windows, and pretty much every OEM does a poor job of it. Sony and Lenovo are the only ones to come even close, but even on their machines, you'll see that similar-specced machines that match Apple laptops' OS X battery life are using much larger batteries than Apple (which means additional size, weight, charge time, etc.).

Apparently OEMs report that on the same machine, using Windows (Vista/7) instead of OS X cause battery life to drop over 20% (and sometimes much more than that):

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
Touch pro 2

HTC Touch

Diamonds also had problems with the buttons

and my kaiser had problems with the battery door.

Xperia also had some problems with cracks

this is also common among computers that some models have this or that fault.

So no it's not just Apple

I'm not again defending or trying to be a fanboy.

The HD2 has more updates then any other HTC phone trying to fix something only to be pulled back down from the side but everyone is praising as if it was made by God.

The problem is not that these phones are without flaws but they are dam expensive and no one seams to want to admit they maybe were not as good as hoped for.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
and you are looking for ****ty reasons to put down the competition :eek:

by the way, in case you are not aware, the iphone casing is made of Ceramic, not plastic.

If you have any Bone china crockery, you will notice hairline cracks on that too....