yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Questions and Answers] noris08:
hi guys!

i'll be a little blunt here - hope no hard feeling will arise:)

1. no one on this earth is irreplaceble. so, if a bunch of chefs decided to leave, say them thanks for what they have done for this community and let them leave. i am 100% positive that there will be some new smart guys to fill tha gap.

as a personal example, i don't use roms from of the best chefs here just because he has been rude and not fair to me when i was pointing out some bugs of his beloved new release. did i die? no, i moved on and i found out roms at the same level, to say the least. there is no thing as devoted customer - this is human nature;)

2. i can understant the need to have the newest dumps. but, in time, us as end user will not care if we have release xxx.8 today or the day after tomorrow. when we will get it, for us will be the newest release:p, so we will be happy anyway. however, no "normal" user can cope with the rithm of the new releases came out

3. developers and chefs are essential for a place like xdadev. but remember, they are just a few guys and simple users are 2mil. if htcpedia try to get some extra income by "boroughing" some talented chefs, they will have to do more then give them new dumps few days earlier then to other chefs. here on xdadev there is more then a few 0day rom releases - new software, new ideeas, extensive bug testing and last but not the least, the sharing spirit. when htcp will attract also large number of users then xdadev will have a problem and they will have to reconsider the "marketing" strategy

as they say - a kick in the ass is a step forward.

so relax, respect those guys decission and let's try to make xdadev even better then it is right now!

best regards to everybody!
[General Questions and Answers] Staxxthedan:
Let go of your kitchens

I think you are right on that one. Everyone is Chef nowadays. I think we are getting to a situation where there are more chefs than users:D Not that its a bad thing tho. I have recently odered my HD2 and was shocked to see 5+ pages full of Chefs I was like ROFL!:D this is interesting. I think I am gonna roll back and become just a user and take my Roms Private:D not that its a bad thing either but I guess its good for the upcomming chefs to improve their kitchens. I would like to encourage the older chefs to follow suit, get back and let new blood take charge. You can always come back into public cooking when it gets dry LOL! which brings us again to the current matter at hand. These chefs that are leaving should be sent off smiling. it is good for everyone that chef LEAVE..Period let noobs learn how to cook. Older Chefs can assist in answering questions and come to think of it, let go off your kitchens together with your tweaks and let the noobs take it from there. That's the only way we can leap into the next dimensions of ROM development.:D
[General Questions and Answers] Chainfire:
Ok, three points:

(1) There is no war between chefs and developers.

(2) Actually developers don't need chefs, at all. Why would us devs need chefs? Don't get me wrong, I love a good custom ROM and I think great chefs are... well, great. But I don't need them to develop anything.

(3) Yes, inequity in donations! Let's take your 1000 downloads and $25. That's a rate of $0.025 per download. Now, the past three years, all my free software added up, counting the downloads on both XDA and outside of XDA, clock well over 500,000 downloads. Yes, you are reading that right. At $0.025 per download, that would mean I should have made at least $12,500.00 in donations. In reality I don't even nearly reach $500.

So think again!
[General Questions and Answers] twopumpchump:
i can tell you enjoy ripping :) your "staxxtanium" looks an awefull lot like the titanium ultimate i used when i cooked for kaiser :rolleyes:
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
Wonderfull calculation. :)

Now lets asume I'm cooking a rom with trial and effort to iron out the buggers takes a minumum of 7 hours a day, 7 days a week and 2 months.

I release that rom and have 1000 downloads and 3 people donate lets say 45 euro.

Should I give all that money to you just because you love to do something else (create a application) which I use in my rom?

No offence Chainfire I respect what you do and I don't use your drivers for HD2 in my latest rom as requested

by yourself thruly but I find it a bit pathetic this calculation you are making.

If these Chefs are such a pain for these Devs I would say start cooking yourself. ;)

So you think a little what you are saying as well. ;)
[General Questions and Answers] Olipro:
I'm with Chainfire on this one, whether you're a Developer or a cook, the two things are separate.

What I will say however is that whilst ROM cooks do essentially depend on Developers for the tools that enable them to create their ROMs, developers do not depend on or need cooks whatsoever - cooks tend to be 10 a penny these days and there is a massive variety of ROMs available, perhaps too many.

If a cook such as Dutty decides to leave, then it's not impossible for someone to come along, pick up their ROM and continue the project from there with some rebranding or whatever - and the reason for this is because most of the work involved in ROM cooking isn't particularly difficult, just tedious.

Either way, I'm not exactly sure where this concept of "war" is coming from since as I said above, the two things are separate and there is absolutely nothing for Chefs and Developers to have a war over.

My thoughts on the matter of HTCP3edia are simple... if people don't like what they're doing then it's really not hard to simply make a clone of a ROM released there in much the same way that CentOS does of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

However, with regard to Noonski's wish that it be required that all ROMs come with a Kitchen... that shouldn't happen and won't happen, and if it ever did happen, since you don't control the internet, all you would do is encourage people away from XDA-Devs because at the end of the day, the majority of people like to have control over what they produce and trying to impose "regulation" is not appropriate.

The counter-arguement to these things tend to revolve around the fallacy that somehow what the person has made is everyone else's right and entitlement which deserves the simple rebuttal of "make it yourself or piss off" and the bottom line really is that once the beast of self-entitlement rears its ugly head, fighting inevitably starts and ultimately future development is discouraged - so if cooks are disappearing, learn to cook.
[General Questions and Answers] Olipro:
you seem to be missing the point, Chainfire was merely stating a fact, he wasn't suggesting a remedy.

My personal thought on the matter however is a simple one: if you are using another dev's creation(s) in your ROM then what you should do is encourage people to donate to that developer by putting their donate link up alongside yours; it costs you nothing and everybody's happy.
[General Questions and Answers] Chainfire:
It's not about that. I really don't think you should give me donations because you are a chef - that is completely beside the point.

The only point is to show that there

is

an inequity in donations with devs vs chefs. (There are a lot of other numbers like these in the Mod forums, and they all come down to the same thing). There is also a discussion going on (though not in this specific thread, but I guess they are all related) about how devs can make some extra money. For example by advertising the paid big brother version in the 1st post of a completely free app (which is actually not allowed at the moment)

A common argument against that (seems to be primarily by chefs) is that the chefs can't do this either, so why should devs be able to? One counter-argument is exactly this: chefs relatively get a higher donation amount than devs for their work (there are a lot more counter-arguments, though)

If these Chefs are such a pain for these Devs I would say start cooking yourself. ;)

Nowhere did I state chefs are a pain for devs. I did however state the opposite, so that comment is completely uncalled for and unfounded. And yes I have in the past actually released a few ROMs (not saying they were any good, but they were fast!)

-

You may call my calculation pathetic - it is just an example, the same calculation works with numbers chef-mods have posted - yet you are the one reading things I have not stated (chefs should give devs money? chefs are a pain? what?) and generally seeing an attack in everything.

So perhaps you are to one who should think a little about what I was saying? And stop assuming things nobody said?
[General Questions and Answers] addicus:
Wow the flames are rising. As a non chef, non developer who spends 2-3 hours a day on this site I see change coming for not only XDA but all WM and HTC based sites. Before I get into that I'd like to make some quick points.

1. Developers who are putting in great work here need to patent their original or major improvement on current projects. Even if you choose not to sell the great programs you are creating here, you deserve the money when someone steals/copies/borrows what you have created. It may take years to get paid, but getting paid in the long run is better than not getting paid at all.

2. Some chefs/developers are great and some suck. Sometimes a chef/developer is great, but the support of the product is so poor or non existent there is no use in using it. I would like to mention JZ Smartmort and CRC as two examples of people who are great on both ends because they deserve it. I know we have others here, but these 2 are the ones I want to give a shout out to.

Okay now to the point. WM is changing and if Apple really has a point to make in it's lawsuit, Andoid will be changing also. I believe the future of the PPC will be a more closed operating system so developers will become the norm. As the Iphone has shown - just because you can develop a program/application doesn't mean you can develop a good application. Unlike other places, the best thing about XDA is great work flourishes quickly and poor work dies quickly. With this being a sharing society we will see the different groups of people coming together. The developers, skinners and chefs will be forced to work together on projects because this site isn't going to just be about getting your phone unlocked and throwing the latest leaked rom on it to see what happens. This site is going to become more about quality work because the hardware is going to allow us to finally have that stuff work.

I came here when I had a Cingular MX220 looking for answers to help that piece of **** remain a stable part of my business life. That's when I found out the Cingular 8125 (Wizard) was dropping a month later and picked one up. Since then I have not only learned so much, I've been able to assist and teach others. That is what community is about and as the landscape of hacking, cooking, developing and even using these products evolve and grow that sense of community will be the reason XDA flourishes. One difference is too be expected though. The pace is about to pick up. Right now we are in the calm before the storm. In the next 1-3 years we will see major shifts, excitement, depression and growth.

What I'm interested in seeing is how valuable will this site remain to Microsoft and HTC with their new business model of taking control of the Windows Mobile experience. The development of new and improved programming will always be valuable, but will we remain the free alpha and beta testing group for their new OS improvements? Either way, make a game plan and get together people. We have 9 months to get ahead of the curve whether you like what you see or not.

Someone asked where do old chefs go when they retire? Oblivion.
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
Ok my apologies Chainfire but with the calculations you where making you are giving this impression towards Chefs in my opinion.

It's nice if people thank you for your work (buying you a beer) but I don't think this money will cover the time most Devs and Chefs are spending with all respect.

I'm sorry but to me it looked a bit pathetic you complaining about donations.

And I realy don't see the need why you wanted to discuss that. :confused:

That's why I responded like that.
[General Questions and Answers] Noonski:
Let me RePhrase that it was never a wish or a Real suggestion to make it a Real Rule.

At least it got some good reactions:D

Note to self: Use less words like personally.
[General Questions and Answers] Staxxthedan:
Conceptually its your & Drkfng idea and acknowledgement was made here: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=5767424&postcount=139 however I have spent Several weeks working on my CPRs as you can see:) after all some questions for CHOME cooking never get answered anyway up to the point that they get removed like here

So that said, where to look...:confused: as I said the concept is yours and has been duly acknowledged. BUT. Staxxtanium is mine.
[General Questions and Answers] Noonski:
Example:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=551813

XML GUI, very great Tool especially for chefs, who benefit's the most?
[General Questions and Answers] twopumpchump:
ive always helped you anytime you have asked, i dont see the need for you to "borrow" anything as you put it....why not try just asking?

i have released kitchens in kaiser and answered any question you have ever asked me, but by giving you my personal kitchen it teaches you NOTHING. 90% of all the tweaks i use in my roms i found right here on xda by reading, searching, and experimenting and you can do the same...you wont believe the stuff you will learn in the process. stop spending all of your time trying to dump other peoples roms and copy them and come up with your own ideas and do some things yourself. dont blame your laziness on "older chefs" not sharing kitchens.
[General Questions and Answers] ElCondor:
I think it is better to stop the whole conversation here.

If you read some posts you might understand why (this will end up with fighting)

Members with 500+ posts should take their responsibility to be an example for newbies and visitors.

This is not good for the reputation of xda.
[General Questions and Answers] Staxxthedan:
Laziness Eh? Let me tell you something. Most of the things I know about coking I have learn't from you and I think you deserve credit for that, which I happily give all the time. But at the sametime for you to say that I dump ROMs is pretty out of order. I spend everyday hours in my kitchen and I am Learning stuff and I read a lot and you can see me helping pple around the forums too, which is the order of the day. BTW I didn't know cooked ROMs can be dumped. What are we arguing about an Idea to change CHOME CPRs? the process a mortscript to change registry entries to point to a preferred cpr? if you look at my CPRs you will see Hrs of editing there and the mort has additional commands to do additional things your script doesn't do. And do I take credit for that no I say it openly its your Idea. Of course I should have sent you a PM thta am gonna let my ROM do what your ROMs used to do, sorry I didn't do that. BTWmy CHOME question was unanswered by you for over a month so where did you expect me to read about it? Mortscripts have standard commands and should we all tell the author pls man can I use your commands? I have already told you and the position will not change the idea is yours mortscripts are freely available bundled with examples and standard commands and your ROM and my ROM are using mortscripts to change CPRs but the Idea was yours and I aknowledge that. What else do you want? BTW I don't take or ask for donations
[General Questions and Answers] twopumpchump:
i could care less if you used my cprs or .mscrs, if you would have asked i would have given them to you. what i want from you is to stop posting like you did, acting like us "older chefs" arent trying to help you because we dont give you our personal rom kitchens...its all here on xda i really dont think there are any big secrets. put yourself in my shoes, if someone you had been helping any way you can posted this, how would you feel?

you have gotten help here at xda, by me and others...what bothers me is that you dont think that is enough and are complaining wanting more :rolleyes:
[General Questions and Answers] denco7:
No more opinions here from me, I have already given all the opinions on this subject that I have.

But I did want to say how much I am thoroughly enjoying this thread and I hope we can keep it relatively flame free and that no one takes thing too personally.

There are obviously very strong opinions on both sides am I am really enjoying hearing from many of the people who led me through my early days here when I first got my Kaiser back in '07. There appear to be some really strong opinions and also some deep seated resentments that seem to have been " stewing " for a few years now.

This is the best thread that I have followed on this site for a long while, hope we can keep the free ( flame free ; ego free ) flow of opinions and get a lot of things off our chest here. Informative and very cathartic for everyone.
[General Questions and Answers] Staxxthedan:
I didn't say it wasn't enough, otherwise I would'nt have a ROM. Obviously you haven't done enough homework on this thread. If you read back you will see that my post is in response to Nooske's post that when Posting ROMs we should post Kitchens also and obviously for the equation to balance the kitchen would have all the tweaks in them,right? Now if we post ROMs and kitchens we retire Right? So that means the next guy to release a ROM would be a noob cause he's trigger happy right? Now since we have surrendered the kitchens then what's the point of continue running the threads? Immediately we become consultants...Now the first person you should have grilled was Nooske in that regard. But no Staxxthedan is easy prey here right? after all he has no right to speak. We taught him these things. He should be silent. Let me expose him....
[General Questions and Answers] af974:
@ uhmmm Noonski i guess...sorry i dont remember, anyway ...sure we chef could share our kitchen as you devs could share your apps source codes :rolleyes:

@ TPC : yes , when you give away your kitchen (an hard work behind) people doesnt learn anything, and i answer the same as you everytime someone PM me asking my kitchen.........learn is power....btw thanks for didnt share your Mega EXT folder when i PMed you, i had the possibility to learn a lot meantime.

@ Denco: Agree with you here , and im not gonna taking personally at all...after all we are adults here.
[General Questions and Answers] Noonski:
Wow, this whole thing is making me grab the bottle again.

I see a mistake that is taking the thread the wrong way. It's now also being used to bring up tensions that seem to have been boiling between users.

And to much is taken to personal.

I'm going to make friends with someone i hadn't expected to make friends with to get rid of of the fact i share some of the frustrations outed in this thread.

PS: the Kitchen Sharing was meant as a provocation. It shows there is a fine line between wanting other people to share their sources and the willingness to share your own. And yes that is easy to say and hide behind after the fact.
[General Questions and Answers] af974:
LOL...leave the bottle please ,to many BS are been already wrote....:D im jokking of course.

Ok the kitchen share was a provocation...well mine was too,but dont take it personally ......i guess we are go somehow out of thread..... ,Devs,chefs ....moderators...we are all part of XDA family.
[General Questions and Answers] acidbath5546:
I would have to respectfully disagree with you here.

I think that this kind of Open Dialogue is extremely healthy and productive.

Not to bring my "Real Life" into things, but I am a practicing psychologist, and would love to see people be as mature and respectful in their disagreements in real life as they are here!

In my opinion this only enhances XDA's reputation as a whole. It shows a level of maturity and wisdom that is seldom found elsewhere on the net.
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
We aint living in an ideal world Noonski and sometimes it's good to keep something for yourself.

A kitchen I mean hehehe LoL, cheer up dude. :D

Aldo we disagree at some points I do respect your work for this community. ;)

Take care, grtz Leo :)
[General Questions and Answers] Chainfire:
Not on XDA you can't... :)
[General Questions and Answers] af974:
Yeah....of course not here mate :)

but do you remember AGeye?....he made free apps here and after that people knew him better than he has sold them in his site.

Well you make a lot of great apps and as you are a great devs i dont see the problem to make the same:)

Cheers.
[General Questions and Answers] chrisd1a1:
ok i keep poping into this thread once a day to see where it's going.

my thoughts. for over 2 years i've been happy to use the roms and apps people have worked hard to put together. and can i say firstly thank you to every single one who has posted software, or roms.

during the last few months i've had a go at putting my own roms together for my diamond (to fill the time while i wait for my HD2) it's been fun, during that time i've asked a lot of questions and had a lot of help and answers.

i've NEVER, EVEN ONCE considered that anyone should share their own personal kitchen when they have worked hard to learn and tweak it.

It's almost (at worst) like theft, taking something that someone has worked hard to do. and at best it's LAZY!!! expecting the results without the work really annoys me,

the point of this forum (for me) is two fold. first to learn and enjoy what you can do with the platform. Second to share with others what you can, be that advice, software or Roms. thats this point of all this. the issue is though that always, always, people get the choice. choose to learn, choose to share.

IF PEOPLE DONT WANT TO DO THIS IT'S UP TO THEM!!! noone should expect them to, noone has the right to take something without it being offered. if they don't want to post on XDA, FINE, it's up to them. IT'S NOT A RIGHT!!! could everyone stop acting like kids??

personally i think a mod or admin should close this thread and some people should grow up
[General Questions and Answers] rgb-rgb:
Doesn't this just lead us back to the reason this whole thread is going on in the first place? Chefs are leaving to sell (in a way) their work by getting free devices or such? If that is even true or not? I don't think any of them have said yes or no that it is happening.
[General Questions and Answers] Mr. Clown:
I dunno about receiving phones or anything else my friend, this is a statement from one chef that left. In his version he clearly posts that is regarding posting links (something that even svetitus have already stated) http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=5835796&postcount=3524
[General Questions and Answers] Dirk:
Well said! People put a lot of time and effort into creating an end result that others can benefit from. It is not a given, nor should it be, that they will share the process that they spent many hours learning themselves to create that end result. We should just be grateful that the product of all that labour is something that the developers will share with us.

There is an amazing amount of altruism that can be seen on this Forum and we should spend our time celebrating that, rather than critizing those that put so much effort into their work.
[General Questions and Answers] vetvito:
100% agreed!