yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
You still didn't read it properly. While the iPhone was slightly faster at some tasks, it also says that this is only the case because the HD was running an early WM6.5.x build that has not been optimized by the ROM cook.

Multitasking does affect performance only when an app does work in the background. That's very rarely the case. And, as you can see from jailbroken iPhones, it does NOT affect fluidity, when implemented properly, thus it does NOT affect the user experience.

(because users won't notice that the device is slowed down as long as it stays fluid - the same reason why people believe the iPhone is faster despite that it is not)

Get yourself an iPhone, jailbrak it, fill its RAM with apps! You'll see it doesn't make the experience any worse.

(I had two of them, jailbreaking has always been the first thing I did, so I know it - I also used them alongside my Touch HD and did lots of comparisons)
[Windows Phone 7 General] style1:
Around this moment I wanna say page 13 I backed away from the arguing and really just wanted more information....I mean I'm down for healthy discussion but you're preaching the Bible as fact now. And yeah you're right I misread an article...mentioning 3rd party apps and HUBs and multitasking... Thats my fault. Look at that, admitting when I'm wrong. ha. Anyway Freyberry thank you for the information you gave in the previous posts. I'll "do my homework" (which has lost all meaning by now) and try to find the answers to some of the questions you didn't answer. Again no hard feelings and I'm sorry this got out of hand. MIX10 is right around the corner and you can believe that I'll be back on here with my foot in my mouth or my hand raised in victory...either way I feel like even though this turned into a flamewar there was still good info given out by yourself and Seed Al. Thank both of you guys for your contribution. l8r

~style1~
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
In fact, yes. I've given you most of the information that's needed to understand the multitasking issue (i.e. why and what people complain about).

Let's see whether they come up with some kind of magic at MIX. :)

Sorry for burning you...^^
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Why, when I can fill my WM device with apps and watch the GUI slow down accordingly?

A great example is the Iconsoft PhonEx app. It is extremely fluid and responsive like iPhone, but once I get a lot of apps loaded or I have CoPilot running in the background and start receiving texts or using Bing, it is not so fluid, and the whole phone lags. I'm sure if a jailbroken iPhone were loaded down with running apps like that, it too would not be as responsive...that's just fundamental to multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
Because WM has not the fluid GUI that the iPhone has. The implementation is just not as good.

What phone do you have? I always have lots of stuff running on the HD2, almost never slows down. The HD2's hardware is pretty much the baseline for WP7.

Yes, PhoneEx is extremely fluid. It's a great experience, isn't it? Fluidity really makes a great experience. Unfortunately, unlike on the iPhone, things get laggy on WM (=less fluid) insted of just slowing down. That's why on the iPhone, when something is slow, this doesn't affect the experience as much as on WM, where things get laggy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Yes, we know iPhone is fluid. But it also loads apps much faster and the controls in the OS are much more responsive. Does iPhone even have a spinning color "wait wheel"?

We all know what happens to a WM phone that's been running different apps all day...time to soft reset!

I have an X1 (broken) and now I just got a Tilt2. Wasn't going to spend $1000 on a HD2 with no 3G and no keyboard. I would like an HD2 Pro.
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
No, it does not.

It just seems faster, cause there's no stupid wait cursor (and ugly screen redrawing like on WM). Instead, it pleases you with nice animations, which makes it seem faster.

Say, do you even read my posts before you answer? No, it does not. That's key to fluidity and a good user experience! No wait cursors, no ugly screen redrawing, just fluid animations (they may be slow, but they must always be fluid).
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
^^^You're not going to tell me that the time I spend waiting for the color wheel to disappear on WM is the same amount of time that iPhone is distracting me with eye candy. I don't buy that at all. I've even tested that and I know it's not true.

Don't compare a freshly booted/ROM'ed WM device with an iPhone. Try running that WM device all day, then do the comparison. That's more of a real-world test.
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
It is. Exactly. ;)

I don't know what WM device you have and to what iPhone you compared it (the 3GS has an ARMv7 processor, like the HD2, which means it's of course faster than something like a Touch Pro 2).

On comparable hardware, iPhone OS is just as fast as WM. I've had enough iPhones alongside my WM phones, I know that - you can also see from the linked post that this is the case (the iPhone is unnoticeable faster there, but the HD is running an early WM6.5.x build, newer ones and optimized ROMs are much faster).
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
You lose much credibility on that one :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
Why? I have linked a post that supports what I say. You have NOTHING.

Now, who's got no credibility?!

G'night.

(4am here and it's really getting ridiculous)
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
OK, you're sleepy...that explains it all...I forgive you ;)

Goodnight :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
For a change, am going to sit and enjoy this
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
While he's sleep, why don't you come on over to YouTube and help me find a video of a WM phone operating faster or just as fast as iPhone... :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
It is obvious, iPhone OS is very much different compared to current WM 6.x.

For a start, iPhone does not multitask, WM6.x. does.

Hardware is also influence this UI fluidity, you cannot compare iPhone with WM 6.x device that has less power (CPU/RAM/ROM/SCREEN TYPE).

And yes, iPhone UI fluidity is iPhone advantage over WM6.x device, I admit that.

But that's because it is different, hardware, OS, apps, etc.

Honestly, I dont care much with iPhone fluidity compared to "comparable" hardware like HD2. HD2 is fluid enough, more than enough.

I wont complain if it less fluid with 1 second or less compared to iPhone, because that wont render the device useless or laughable or sucks.

My only hope that the upcoming WP7 will be as fluid as iPhone if not more.

And NO, you simply do not know that until you have the device and compare.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arcadia2112:
WP 7

The HD2 Leo is clearly better hardware than te IPhone, nevertheless the OS by Aplle works far better than Windows, I have tried several ROMS here but next to the HTC original ROM it keeps freezing several times a day, and that is typicall to Windows also on my Laptop they cannot make it work and still we buy it.:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Hey guys! Out of interest, I took that video youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOJVUrAAzk&feature=rec-HM-r2 and compare iPhone 3GS to HD2.

HD2 is faster (only slower opening stocks, other thigs are all faster).

I upload it for you so you can see it yourself. Here is it: viddler.com/player/9fcfd4ee/

I know it is unfair because HD2 has 1GHz but I am sure it is also faster with 600MHz only.

I opened other programs for multitasking. What's good on HD2 is that you only must open a program once, next time it is there with zero loading time!!

On iPhone, it is always closed and you have loading time again.

So HD2 is really much faster and multitasking is good because it gives zero loading time.

Had not enabled notes rotating no rotate comparison for you :(
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Yes iPhone is fluid but iPhone sucks!

Fluid it is so that dumb people believe it is fast. HD2 means real speed with multitasking, much better than dumb iPhone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
They are unoffical ROMs of course they ill have some bugs! Try finding custom ROMs for an iPhone you won't have near as much luck as you do here.

They only reason your laptop is freezing is because you have installed crap software to make it that way. How many icons do you have running in your task manager? I'm running window 7 ultimate and I can say that I've had no problems with the OS freezing other then certain programs themselves. That's the programming fault and once the process was ended the OS continued to work as it should. Look at servers, I'm a IT System Administrator and I know first hand servers can go months without needing reboots or having hang ups. That's because they have only trusted programs running on them from companies that know how to program. They are not running weatherbug in system tray.

And if you're trying to say OSX doesn't freeze or hang up you're dead wrong. My friend has one and I've seen it first hand.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
It's nice to see a WM device holding it's own speed-wise against the 3GS. However, It looks like you were not starting them programs from scratch but you were simply task switching (programs had already been loaded previously). Perhaps you should have run a task manager and did a "Close All" before making your video. This would have made the comparison more applicable to the discussion in this thread about speed. To make it even more real-world, use an HD2 that's been running for a day or two.

But one thing I must say is that the 3GS running at 600MHz vs an HD2 at 1GHz, the iPhone OS is faster because your HD2 only matches the 3GS speed, it doesn't beat it, as one would expect based on CPU speed. And if you were task switching (switching between previously loaded apps), that makes HD2 look even worse speed-wise against the 3GS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Well you also have to take into account that the iphone is running a lower resolution then the HD2 also so it'll get performance boost from that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Yes, as stated a few pages back: no multitasking and lo-Res graphics are several of the factors that make iPhone operate faster.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
But nobody seems to be missing hi-res because apple iphone os anti-alias seems to make the screen look better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
^ I guess, but that's the first thing I notice when using an iPhone...the blocky graphics. It's like looking at Legos compared to X1 and TP2.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
I don't know...

i look at youtube and there is nearly no difference at the normal reading distance.

Definitely see a difference in text resolution IF you try to get too close. but then again,why would you need to?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Nonono I started all from scratch!!!

When I run them in the background they have zero loading time! You can see that they have loading time!

HD2 is much faster than iPhone. It is faster when it starts programs from scratch!

It is also faster at 600MHz for sure!

And it only has to load programs one time. There is much more loading time on iPhone because it always closes programs!

I can't use HD2 that has been runnign for days because then all programs already run and it is faster. HD2 does not get slow after days. It is more fair after soft reset. And also I have run other programs you can see that in the video like Adobereader and Word and notes!

Just believe it now you have lots of proof! And don't say someone is not credible. :( You are not credible because what you say is not true! iPhone is not faster.

iPhone is only fluid so that stupid people think it is faster. :( gogol is right it is fluid but HD2 is better, it has real speed and multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] jongie123:
Iphone 3gs maybe smoother and fluid because use 600mhz processor for only one task at a time.If you jailbreak and try to multitask it will be very laggy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
You won't see the difference on YouTube. Too many variables affecting picture quality.

OK. +1 for the HD2 and 0 points for the rest of the WM family ;)

HD2 wins on brute force alone.

I'm not going to continue to debate reality. If you believe that WM is just as fast as iPhone OS, then go right ahead. Holding iPhones and iPod Touch's in hand next to my WM devices leads me to believe otherwise. All too often in using a WM device, I have to sit there and wait for something to happen after I hit a control. All too often, the WM device get a serious case of the laggies...especially after I have been using apps all day.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Your reality is only lies. You are not credible. People prove you wrong and you can prove nothing. Think you are smart? No you are not because you believe iPhone is fast because it is fluid. Fluid it is so that people believe it is fast but intelligent people know better.

Fluid is cool hope WP7 is also fluid but with real speed and multitasking like HD2 not locked down like iPhone because locked down is for people who can not handle their phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Yes, you right, that's one way to look at it.

Fluidity of the UI can be just a cover up, an illusion to give you perception of fastness.

While you might know already that behind that fluidity, there are tasks and processes that need to be executed and maintained.

Again, that's one way to look at it. Of course, good OS should also have that fluidity.

But as I said earlier, I dont mind to loose nth/seconds of fluidity compared to iPhone as long as as my device can do so much more, processing more data, heavier applications, complex 3D rendering, higher screen resolution and such.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
First of all, I conceded that the HD2 was faster. Don't you think it is odd that a 1GHz CPU phone only equals or slightly beats a 600MHz phone? If you want to really convince people WM is just as fast, show some apps running in day-to-day use...not just opening and closing.

You seem to be conveniently ignoring all the other WM6 devices out there. Are they too just as fast as iPhone and everyone is too dumb to realize it? :confused:

You are ignoring responsiveness. Plain and simple, WM has lag when using on-screen controls. When I say faster, I'm talking about responsiveness, fluidity and speed--combined. There are plenty of comparison videos on YouTube PROVING that iPhone OS is faster in this regard.

I am not an iPhone advocate nor do I just blindly hate it for any dumb reason. Obviously, MS has taken some design notes from Apple and will have a killer OS and phone in WP7S. At this point, it looks far more impressive than any iPhone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Shasarak:
Anyone who is under the impression that the HD2 is unambiguously "faster" than the iPhone 3GS should try playing back 720p video on both devices.

For the record, anyone whose attitude about absolutely any topic at all can be summed up as "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously just too stupid to understand" is almost certainly wrong about the topic in question. :cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
+1 :)

___________________________________________________
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
True :D

Well unlike WM 6.x, the iPhone OS has a GPU-composited UI, so it's going to be smoother regardless of how much CPU power you throw at it, for the same reason that even a slow machine running OS X or Windows Vista/7 (which have a GPU-composited desktop) will generally always be smoother than a machine on XP (which doesn't).

Apple also does a great job prioritizing UI threads over everything else, so the iPhone never locks up like WM 6.x phones sometimes do. They're so confident in the OS' stability that there's no manual (the battery is sealed-- imagine if that were the case on a WM phone...my TP2 would've died on the second day if I couldn't swap out the battery to reboot it).

WP7 finally introduces full GPU acceleration for the UI, but my concern is that they still don't fully understand the purpose of animations. The iPhone's animations are useful to make the UI more intuitive (e.g. deleted items get sucked into the trash button), whereas many of those we've seen in the WP7 demos are just for eye candy (e.g. list items in the main menu and hubs rotating in one-by-one from the side) and end up needlessly delaying the user (the ZuneHD has similar issues, but it matters less there because you use the UI less and are playing content more).
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
A WM device can do all those things in theory. In reality, the iPhone has far more complex 3D rendering than any WM app (look at cross-platform games like Need for Speed for example-- there's no comparison), along with a heck of a lot more apps (serious, useful things). Sure, I can plod around an Excel file using the archaic mess that is Office Mobile (even 2010) on WM, or I could use a much better, touch-friendly alternative on the iPhone.

The app argument no longer works in WM's favor. The only thing left is choice-- and even that's questionable on the software side because of jailbroken apps on the iPhone, so it's mainly hardware choice- that you can have multiple form factors.

Of course, the usefulness of the hardware is another issue-- e.g. the HD2 has a digital compass, which is cool if you're showing off a spec sheet, but it's almost useless, whereas the same type of sensor on the iPhone 3GS is invaluable because of the number of apps that use it (augmented reality stuff mainly).
[Touch Diamond2, Pure General] chris5s:
Hey folks

Some of the new builds have a scrollbar on the right hand side of the dialler screen. To fix this, replace the file \Windows\phcanrc.dll with the attached file. You'll need to do this with resco or total commander. Then soft reset and you're good to go.

Peace
[Nexus One General] m3manny:
anyone that can help me Push the .ko file to /system/lib/modules

on a mac i would really appreciate it ,thank you in advance

M3manny
[Nexus One General] prettyboy85712:
This kind of stuff belongs in the General section.
[Nexus One General] bobtentpeg:
find the adb binary

cd to the directory its in

adb remount

adb pull /system/lib/modules/bcm4329.ko ~/Desktop

adb push *Drag the ko file here* /system/lib/modules/

(If you can an error on adb, prefix each "adb" with ./ so it looks like ./adb)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] fone_fanatic:
So previously i could use the volume up down buttons to control the volume within an app (youtube, spb tv, windows media player, etc)

Now when i attempt to lower the voume in spb tv, it stops what i'm watching and uses the default volume (black screen with white bars). Also in youtube and windows media player the volume buttons dont do anything at all.

Anyone know a solution?

ok, SR and now works in youtube, but the display only showed once (green bar showing volume)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] pckshd:
Maybe looking for this? http://forums.jdbp.mobi/phorum/read.php?1,7546
[XPERIA X1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tretiy:
Bought an X2 in English, need to convert it into Russian. I understand English very well, but I can't use russian keyboard at all - this is the biggest problem. So, is there any way to install Russian language into my phone, e.g. flashing/software? I have a russian firmware file ready to download, but don't know the way to flash it...
[XPERIA X1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rudegar:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=477801

there is a russian rom on the list
[XPERIA X1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tretiy:
...

Did I say something about X1?
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] k.trazy:
I want to permanently disable the HTC Sense UI and the HTC slide lock screen. I want to revert back to the original Android UI. Is there a way to achieve this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] KBizzle:
I can advise you on how to disable SenseUI.

menu>settings>applications>manage applications

Search for HTC Sense, select it, find the clear defaults button. Once you clear defaults, press your home button and select the checkmark and then select home.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] HeroMeng:
Try Gumbo 1.5c Bare. It's a rom as vanilla as possible.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] thedudejdog:
http://forum.androidcentral.com/35717-post119.html

try this rom, ive been running it for a few days its petty amazing
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] SasoriSoren:
I tried this and no landscape which is what I was hoping for.
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] andyriot:
this thread is a bit old. no one uses 1.5 anymore, as even the official 2.1 update is out. if you want AOSP 2.1 then try out Darchdroid. its as vanilla as its gonna get for the Hero
[Hero CDMA Themes and Apps] boredmug:
Use the batch file this guy created.. Works great! http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=675678&highlight=batch
[G1 Apps and Games] lemoncoffeetea:
Thank you so much for this complete guide and I've several questions here.

1.My sipdroid works well with UDP but doesn't work with TCP, any solution?

2.Registration does not complete every time. what does "503 Service Unavailable" mean?

3. Sipdroid will receive call back when I preform a call on my laptop in the google voice page, but never receive call back when I use google voice webpage. Why is it?

4. Is there any app for android can let me making google voice phone calls with gizmo5 service? I've tried guava, gv, google voice but none of these works. I guess its my fault but I just don't know how to solve it.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
What is your SIP provider/proxy? Not all SIP providers have proxy servers configured to work with TCP. One option for getting TCP to work with a SIP provider that doesn't yet support TCP is to route through pbxes.org

I don't understand your question. Can you rephrase it?

Currently you have to use the callback if you want to perform a call through Google Voice.
[G1 Apps and Games] surfshadow:
Hey man, awesome updated post! But when I set everything up, I am not able to receive calls over 3g data when my screen blacks out (i am assuming that my 3g data is turned off when screen is blacked out as well?) - I can only receive calls when the screen is active. Do you know how to fix this? TIA!
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
What version of Sipdroid are you using? And which version of Android is your phone running? Your 3G data connection should remain active if both of those versions are fairly update. For the record I am using Sipdroid 1.3.14 on Android 1.6 for the above guide.
[G1 Apps and Games] surfshadow:
Everything is up to date like yours. I am using sipdroid 1.3.14 and running it on my Mytouch 3G (Android 1.6). Not sure if 3g connection drop is the sole issue because the green dot is always there - but even with the green dot present, it won't receive calls when i leave my phone idle for few minutes.
[G1 Apps and Games] indybull:
similar problem as lemoncoffeetea

Awesome post! Thank you.

I have very similar problem as lemoncoffeetea.

Sipdroid will receive call back when I preform a call on my laptop in the google voice page, but never receive call back when I use google voice webpage in my android phone.

In addition, the registration seems not very stable. Sometime the light turns to green, other time become red. When it is red, it either comes out (Timeout), or (503 errors).

Any insight on this?

Thank you very much!
[G1 Apps and Games] Gary13579:
Hey jashsu, awesome guide! This may not be the best place to post this but I've been having problems with sipdroid.

Specifically, any WiFi power saving mode seems to fail. I have Android's wifi sleeping set to never, and then if I check the "Let sipdroid control wifi power" box, sipdroid disconnects after the screen turns off, as well as the phone disconnecting from WiFi.

I believe this is probably related: http://code.google.com/p/sipdroid/wiki/NewStandbyTechnique

I'm guessing Gizmo5 doesn't support VoIP over TCP, so the phone needs to wake up often to keep the UDP connection alive? Appreciate any comments :)