yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus One General] krohnjw:
My thoughts are as follows:

The antenna is in the bottom of the phone - this isn't a design "flaw" it's how the phone was designed to fit the necessary components into a small fixed space. This isn't the first phone designed this way and it won't be the last. It was likely designed that way due to space constraints with the speaker, mic and camera up top. Again, the "issue" is only prevalent in areas of weaker 3G coverage.

The iPhone 3G is designed the same way and people see the same issues with 3G dropping when you cover it with your hand - you can find the same youtube videos on it.

Google was aware of this before it shipped and in the manual states not to cover the back of the phone and to hold it in the preferred position. I don't think Google has anything to say that isn't in the manual already...

Now, you can argue that the N1 may get poorer 3G reception compared to other phones, but to argue that covering the antenna with your hand causes a degradation of signal is a "design flaw" is asinine. This happens with all phones and all antennas. There's likely few ways they could have placed the antenna in the top of the phone with the size of the current phone and the hardware that's already up there.

I wouldn't hold your breath for Google to "do something" as people seem to want as there's nothing they can "do" other than say, "Read your manual and quit covering the antenna with your hand".
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Omg really..when is this topic going to end? Those of us with common sense know that it's nothing to do with the Nexus one or Android specifically. All phones do the same thing. I just did it with a friends iPhone. I can go around my building (AT&T) and cover anybodies phone with my hand and drop a bar, sometimes two. It's common networking knowledge. You cover the antenna, you lose some signal strength.

If you have 2 bars of 3G and you cover it up and lose 2 bars....What do you think happens? You go to Edge. Everybody thinks they know this issue like they invented the damn thing. There is no specific problem with the Nexus One. Give it up already.

Ironically common sense isn't so common these days...
[Nexus One General] Gr8gorilla:
I am sitting at my desk, I have a rooted N1 customized to the max. I am using the ERE36B Radio, (not the one in the OTA) I have 4 bars of 3G/HSPDA If I cover the bottom of the phone with both hands, I dont loose a single bar.

I fully believe this is a software issue. The leaked radio is working great for me, I almost never lose 3G now.

Yes covering the antena will cause you to lose signal, why wouldnt it?
[Nexus One General] JoshHart:
Blah, I have a N1 and G1 on tmobile on different lines and they always have the same service same speed tests. Maybe my phone is the phenomenon, but I doubt it.
[Nexus One General] McFroger3:
Whats the preferred position?

Any comfortable way caused you to block the radio.
[Nexus One General] uberingram:
I get the same signal strength my G1 did in all the same places. Using both the OTA radio and the 36B radio. If I'm in a place with weak 3G I force it to 2G. Why would Google give a **** about T-Mobile's 3G coverage?

:confused:
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
This is what I have been saying. I have a MyTouch, N1, and G1 and they all have the same signal strength at all times. I sold the G1 already but my wife still has the Mytouch.

Everybody who complains has nothing to compare it to. How can you say something is worse because you "remember" another phone? You can't. It's T-mobiles coverage. It has nothing to do with Google, Android or HTC.

People just need to get over it already and stop complaining.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Ok, since you have access to multiple Android phones...

Can you try the TRUE test? :)

Open up Settings -> About Phone -> Network on both phones sitting side by side.

Can you compare the *exact* signal strength on both phones? (dBm vs dBm when side by side)

And yes I have absolutely HORRID service in my place. I'm lucky to get better than -95.
[Nexus One General] HighTech216:
In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists.

Good job, you apparently know it all. . . BTW, thanks for the earth ;)
[Nexus One General] justclimb:
From the experience gained using mine is evident that all problems are not hardware but FULLY firmware related.

Since everytime I make a call the phone SHOWS a better coverage than staying only surfing the web. Also when tethering, if I make the phone call suddenly the HSDPA speeds tend to increase at about 20%, I presume that when you are calling, the firmware might be settled to somehow strength the radio signal. Compare this on-call speeds to my "normal" ones:

Anyway, right now the only temporal solution for the indiscriminated switch backs to GPRS when navigating is making sure of accesing the radio config (*#*#4636#*#*) and select WDMCA ONLY...

;)
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Today ALOT of new users started posting over at the Spotty 3G Part 2 thread. One particular user seem to be the owner or a related engineer of a wireless carrier. He pointed out that Google did not do the require testing of signal sentivity. Immediately after he posted this the Spotty 3G Part 2 thread was unpinned and further replies no longer allows the thread to be bumped to the top! I will quote what he said.

LINK

After this the thread was made unpinned and unbumpable. Sounds like a cover up to me! Many users of the N1 may have defective signal problems and not even know it!
[Nexus One General] zjchaser:
I have to say that my phone worked FAR better in China on China Unicom when I was there last week than it does on T-mobile in the states....sad.
[Nexus One General] tropmonky:
For me all of this just = all the more reason to get a EVO 4G, oh and not trust Google stuff outright, LOL.

(yes I know HTC makes the phone, but Google was knee deep with the design of the hardware). I doubt HTC will let this happen in the future to their own phones now.
[Nexus One General] rafaelb_89:
When held in my hand, in my apartment, I will have a steady 2 bars on 3G. Outside, it doesn't make a difference. And if it does, I have 3/4 bars, but usually full. dbm-wise, It shows -79 through -101 dbm in my apartment but doesn't switch to EDGE. Outside, Signal is strong. I haven't checked dbm outside but my signal bars are either 3 or 4, never lower until I start wandering into a dead zone or somewhere where 3G isn't applicable.
[Nexus One General] logger:
Nexus One 3G issues is real on SOME N1s

My nearest 3G cell tower is 22 miles away as the crow flies and I have zero issues with calls dropping out. I still get 0.64Mbps data at that distance too.

So whatever the "3G issues is real" is, I don't have it. It is a non issue for me.

I guess I just object to the word ALL in the thread title. Implies there is some killer fault in ALL N1s when in from my experienced there is not.

Sort of like saying "Nexus One Has "HTC written on it" issues is real on ALL N1s" Sure they all have it, but it is not an issue for most of us.
[Nexus One General] tasty-xda:
One thing I don't understand is "lack of signal" measurable purely in dbm or is there something else (like reverberation in a metro area)?

wcdma prefered:

In the twillys, I can hold a 3g signal at around -98dbm or -101dbm from the window of a 3rd story building. I probably have line of sight or near line of sight access, but it's far away.

In the metro area in my tower, I lose 3g at around -87dbm when it flips to edge after about 2 minutes. About 20ft from a window holding it as best as I can, and I get edge at around -60dbm.

wcdme locked:

In the metro area, I hold the signal all the way down to around -100dbm when I cover the phone with my hands and retreat to the center of the building (so 40 ft from any window near the elevators).

The best I can think of (and this thread was the closest I came when I searched for "edge control switch 3g signal dbm"):

What provokes the flip to occur earlier when downtown? Is it doing error checking on data and not enough packets pass so it drops? Or is it an arbitrary value at what point it starts looking for edge? I think there is something else it's looking for since I can hold the signal at such a weak level when I'm not downtown.

Is this controlled in the radio, the kernel, or elsewhere? If Google won't be working on 3g issues much/at all anymore***, then what roll-your-own alternatives exist for those of us who have quirky service?

Any other ideas?

***URL bit.ly/bzAOsl
[Nexus One General] attn1:
That quoted post from Google's support forum is a joke.

Sounds like Google is not responsible for the hardware design, manufacture or support, and they don't need some blowhard claiming to be an expert quoting an article clearly written in Great Britain regarding American testing standards.

Whoever posted that was trying to build a case on BS, because if he was who he claimed to be, he could have come up with much better documentation than that.

I found the part where he was claiming that carriers had the best interest of the consumer at heart absolutely laughable. Since when? Got a look at a Backflip lately? WTF is that anyway? I'll take my "gray market" n1 over that "carrier certified" POS anyday.

And my "gray market" N1 signal is better than my wife's "carrier certified" iphone 3g signal, everywhere we go and every day.

That post is no more than yet another pile of crap added to the dung heap people are placing on Google's front porch. I don't blame Google one iota for simply shoveling the whole issue off and out of the way.
[Nexus One General] heygrl:
China generally has no restrictions like we do on the carriers here. They don't really care about "safety" related to cellular signals or where the towers are placed.

and uansari1

The placement has NOTHING to do with the issue here, the sensitivity of that antenna DOES.. it's garbage just like the HD2. HTC is a young company, I expect Motorola to be better. But HTC is getting WORSE and not better.

And if Google wants to slap their name on the phone and sell it, they should be taking some of the blame here. HTC designed it so they get the bulk, but Google is the one selling the product.
[Nexus One General] ChillRays:
Allow me to throw my two cents into this conversation. Some of you can say its the nexus one's fault for 3g dropping but one day I decided to look into t-mobile's coverage for tampa florida (my location). Primarly its pretty good but I could see a ton of area's where its 2g and edge. I have only heard a handful of times where someone has complained that "for 2 months i've been 3g when standing in this spot and now I barely get 2g". So someone explain to me what the true problem is here.. the poor coverage of t-mobile (or at&t, etc).. the way someone is holding the phone (hands over the antenna) or the bands inside the phone. Sorry i'm a noob when it comes to all of this. Thanks to whoever replies.
[Nexus One General] Sellitus:
I'm still trying to figure out if it is an N1 problem, but let it be known that so far in the same areas as I was in with my Tilt2 that gets no 3G reception gets it with the N1. It doesn't seem to drop or fluctuate at all unless in an area with really low 3G rate, but sometimes the signal meter does interesting things. It doesn't ever seem to affect usage much. On ATT for anyone that wants to know.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Just got my swap! testing time...gonna compare both..so far the biggest difference is the track ball and screen, they are brighter on the swap lol.I notice the part number is 99HKE002-01, while the number on my defective phone ended in 00 F..I am in my room with a 3G signal of -87dBm, When I cup both phones however I lost 3G and they both switch to EDGE. Heres a picture with both side by side with 3G, the one on the left is the swap. http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3946/p3100232b.jpg and when they are on EDGE http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3737/p3100242.jpg

So far from what I can tell, they both still have wifi issues(keeps disconnecting). After 30min, they both are still on EDGE. Basically I have not see any improvement except for the touch screen(same touch panel numbers). At this point I'm unsure what's gonna happen next.
[Nexus One General] mysterioustko:
First of all learn to use better language. My OPINION is not the same as your OPINION does not make me a fool. Simply put, I can be on the phone with my att nexus and never lose my 3g signal while traveling 30 miles, whereas the tmobile nexus getting a strong 3g signal will lose it when I am on the phone within the first few miles. Coincidence? If I do lose my 3g signal on my att nexus while I am talking on it, it is because I am no longer in a good 3g area.
[Nexus One General] rori~:
Nexus One 3G issues is real on all N1s: NO!

I got great reception!:cool::p
[Nexus One General] morphemic69:
For any t-mobile user in the Dallas area using the *#*#4636#*#* trick to switch the phone to WCDMA only really does wonders. My N-1 came stock with the setting GSM Auto (PRL) enabled. Usually on edge and would constantly switch back and forth. Changing this option to WCDMA; the phone switch's back and forth between HSDPA and 3g.... mainly stays on HSDPA. If you have good coverage in your area this makes a world of difference. Using the speedtest.net app i am getting 4800kbs down and 500up holding it my hand like you normally would. In edge mode i'm getting 156kbs download and 106 upload. Huge difference. And I have also noticed that when it is in 3g, when i download an app or browse the internet as soon as it starts loading data it switches to to HSDPA for the duration of the data usage. So to sum it up if you are in an area with good 3g coverage switching to WCDMA ONLY will have enormous gains in performance. No more EDGE whatsoever.
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
the trick I've done with all my phones is just spread your pinky and ring finger apart about 1 inch when holding your phone. this really makes a huge difference especially on the nexus and the Nokia n97.

I live in very low signal area, my house I get only 1-2 bars of edge, and in my driveway I get 1 bar of 3g if I really position the phone right. the nexus performs just like my Nokia and other phones in this scenario. so from my point of view, it doesn't have and signal problems at all. and I like to think that the situation at my house is close to the best test you can get in terms of fringe area performance testing.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
It's a combination of all 3,network,cupping the bottom and software. I now have a theory which would explain the n1s signal troubles.
[Nexus One General] thepawn:
I've been using my N1 with my left hand...3G reception is so much better, lol.
[Nexus One General] tropmonky:
Looks like Verizon is saying "No thank you" to the Nexus one..

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/26/google-updates-nexus-one-page-tells-verizon-customers-to-get-a/

An I'm betting the 3G issue on the Nexus One is partly to blame as is the crummy touchscreen... the Incredible appears to have a better touchscreen,

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/26/confirmed-droid-incredibles-multitouch-support-is-better-than/
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Guess this is the end of nexus saga.
[Nexus One General] ihod:
Just a random question, I live in East-Central Massachusetts (15 min from Worcester) and I often drive through semi-urban areas. I currently have a G1 with CM-5.0.7 and .26i radio. Sitting on my desk, I am getting -95dBm and 9asu (3 bars) UMTS. When I hold the phone covering the antenna this goes to -109dBm and 2asu (1 bar) UMTS. This is an EDGE heavy area but TMO has been upgrading alot of their towers so most of the time I get decent 3G albeit with latency issues.

I really want the N1 but im concerned about the signal issues. With the numbers I posted above, would anyone know what I could expect for signal coverage? Im not worried about 3G as much as I am about it dropping calls. My G1 has excellent service with this radio (.02 sucked) and I have learned to live with laggy TMO data.

As a side note, I upgraded to the HD2 but was seriously disappointed. Having to pull the battery 4 times in a week vs. once with the G1 in two years, yea. The reception sucked as well and it dropped calls. Going to WMP from Android for me is like ditching Ubuntu for Windows Me so I returned it.
[Nexus One General] heygrl:
Expect the same reception "performance" you got out of your HD2.. to be honest the G1 isn't the best but it's certainly better than these rejects. I never get 3G/E switching with my G1 but it does have weaker signal strength than my other phone. Not nearly as bad as the HD2 or Nexus. Being on the edge of a 3G site, with anything like the HD2 or Nexus One.. you'll be sitting on EDGE.
[Nexus One General] ihod:
Thanks thats what i needed to know. I almost threw the HD2 out the window while driving. I would try the N1 out but with the hefty restocking fee it has, im good. I'll wait to see what TMO offers with a large screen + snapdragon or the like in the near future...
[Nexus One General] ram130:
To mean 3G is stronger on the N1 than my G1 which switch alot to EDGE. I love the speed of this phone and its great. I don't believe it will drop any calls in your area because it would have EDGE to goto if 3G gets too low.
[Nexus One General] djmcnz:
I get a similar effect with WiFi, a human hand can affect the signal strength.

But let's keep something in perspective:

Every carrier that explicitly supports the Nexus One has approved its radio performance. Every single one. They've signed it off and said it's acceptable for our network and our customers.

If no carriers approved it then it would not have been sold. If any carriers approved it then who is Google to say "we know better".

I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist (although it doesn't seem to affect my experience) rather that it would be a little unfair to hold Google accountable.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Agreed. I believe as a customer rep stated, it's just the design of the phone causing the more degrading than others.
[Nexus One General] Sellitus:
No 3G issues here, even when switching back and forth anymore with Froyo radio. I'm lovin' it (Thank you McDonalds)

AT&T version here for reference.
[Nexus One General] JanetPanic:
I happen to have both a G1 and a N1 active.

g1 sitting on my desk -89 dBm 12 asu
g1 held in my hand for 2 min -89 dBm 12 asu *
n1 sitting on my desk -83 dBm 15 asu
n1 held in my hand for 2 min -99 dBm 7 asu **
n1 held in my hand upside down evenly split between
-87 dBm 13 asu
and
-93 dBm 10 asu

* I did get a spike -101 dBm 6 asu and an occasional -93 dBm 10 asu but it mostly held steady.

** Readings fluctuated a bit more than the G1 but tended to stay between -97 and -101

I held my hands in a typical position for use of the phone and attempted to keep my posture as identical as possible for both phones. On the desk the phones were put flat in the exact same position. While performing the tests on each phone the other phone was kept in another room so as to make clear it is not one phone interfering with the other. I have no other active cellular devices in my work area.

I love my N1 and consider it a great phone (still wish it had a hw keyboard though). That said, I think it is disingenuous to try and argue that the antenna placement and interference on the N1 is not worse than other phones. I have had numerous phones including the Blue Angel, Magician, Wizard, Artemis, and the G1. The N1 is the first phone where hand placement has made a significant impact on the usage of the phone. Sure there is some drop in signal on other phones but not to the extent where it causes problems. I turned on 360 rotation and browse with the phone upside down so I can get a steady signal. This works but I can't say that it is reasonable.
[Nexus One General] gurry:
I remeber back when the iphone first came out wifi and 2g egde dropped when held in both hadns (landscape) there was also a warning on the N96 hat this may happen.

Would a signal booster help (I mean one of them stick on the battery jobs they flog on ebay?)
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Did you try other hand positions on the G1?

It might be possible that the antenna is NOT in the same position as the N1.

Try covering the entire phone with both hands to see if the signal drops at all. If there's absolutely nothing you can do whatsoever to make the signal change, then I'd say there's definitely something wrong with the N1. But I doubt it; the antenna is probably just elsewhere.

If anyone has access to a MyTouch/Droid/Eris and can test, that would be great too.
[Nexus One General] JanetPanic:
Covering the majority of the G1 (including the entire back) with both hands the signal dropped to -101 dBm 6asu. My contention is that the N1 antenna was poorly placed for general usage. The problem is more prominent when using the phone for data than for phone calls. During a phone call I can grip higher to assist the phones reception (though this should not be required) but while using the phone for data it is hard to hold it in such a way as to be able to access the buttons and trackball one handed, or even use in general, without causing a significant degradation in performance.

If you have to use the super secret crane style kung fu grip to get a steady signal then the fault is not in the user but in the machine.
[Nexus One General] dallastx:
Quit covering the Antenna? What.... tear down all the walls including the ceiling??? Or go stand in a open field and hold my phone up to the sun? Who reads a manual on how to hold a phone! If i cant hold it how i want to hold it...there is a serious issue.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Actually, I will. Give me 10 minutes.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Here you go. The MyTouch has a lower signal strength than the N1 actually. The N1 has 4 bars, the MyTouch has 3 bars. I switched them and they didn't change after letting them sit for 20 seconds. This is sitting in my living room. N1 has -79 dbm, the MyTouch has -89 dmb. Now I just looked again and the N1 has -73 and the MyTouch has -87. I hope this is proof enough for everybody to give up on the "Nexus one signal issues"
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Hehehehe.... :D

I had to read this a few times just to make sure... :D

You DO realize that for dBm, the [sic] "lower" (hehe) it is the BETTER? (Notice that negative sign there?)

The closer it is to zero, the STRONGER the signal is. :D Which is exactly why the N1 has 4 bars and 3 bars for the MT3G.

So you're actually proving the exact opposite of what you're saying.

In both your tests and the other guy's tests, the phone has STRONGER signal when just sitting on the desk. I think that's conclusive evidence that the antenna in the N1 is actually STRONGER than other Android phones when sitting on a desk.

NOW.... Why placing your hand around the phone has a much more pronounced effect on dropping the signal quality on a Nexus One... That is a different issue and something why I've never heard someone give an answer to.

Anyway, can you repeat the tests above with your hands covering the device? (And again, note that the antenna on the MT3G may be in a different spot.)

I think the bottom line here is that

A) The N1 has a stronger antenna when uncovered

B) Placing your hand on the antenna fvcks the antenna more so on the N1 than other phones. (Although more testing on this to compare the "drop" in signal strength on other Android phones is needed.)
[Nexus One General] JanetPanic:
I would also narrow the test to specifically holding it one handed as you would for operation. (in my case so that I can canvas the phone with my left thumb)

You might also consider photoshopping out the phone number on the My Touch.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
I edited out the # in my quoted pic, if dumbestcrayon wants to edit out his pic or cut/paste the url in mine.