yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] weesals:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!

The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.

Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.

One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ramdroid77:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Shasarak:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.

What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
[Windows Phone 7 General] giggles33:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.

I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.

I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ajclai08:
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] crd22:
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.

We are going to need a task manager though...

As for comparing to the iPhone:

-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.

-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)

-Better hardware standards

-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wheezle:
Because that's where the money is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gerryjoson:
Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.
[Windows Phone 7 General] freyberry:
The most important advantages are gone.

They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.

There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.

(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fdo35:
Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)

Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming

File downloads (possibly)

Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed

XBOX LIVE! Enough said.

Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)

1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)

WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)

Bing search (That's just my preference.)

Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)

There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.

Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fdo35:
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone!:p I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.
[Windows Phone 7 General] burnblue:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1

Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.

Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People
[Windows Phone 7 General] seed_al:
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
^^^ +1

This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] seed_al:
Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
Also, for anyone interested in smartphone CPU/GPU hardware performance, here's an interesting post (mainly see the charts at the bottom). Their charts are based on the processor specs (not actual device performance), but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.techautos.com/2010/03/14/smartphone-processor-guide/
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
This is one of the advantages of Apple limiting the form-factors of the device. Developers know what the user has whereas, with WM, there is no consistent form-factor for software developers to design for. I think this is why the iPhone app ecosystem has done so wonderfully well even though it was a late comer. Even though iPhone has tons of garbage apps, there are also plenty of clever apps that don't seem to exist on WM.

I'm hoping MS keeps the hardware specs very strict in WP7S which will make it easier for developers to know what their users are experiencing. They wouldn't have to waste time coding for tons of different hardware scenarios.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
No almost certainly wrong are people who say "I don't discuss reality".

After their "reality" was already proven wrong.

And your 720p is irrelevant we are talking about the interface and user experience not hardware and drivers.

So I conclude:

1) You bring totally irrelevant "arguments"

2) WhyBe is really the one who says hir reality is the only right one

So the "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously just too stupid to understand" guy is WhyBe.

And the stupid guy who does not understand what is being discussed is you.

I am the guy who proved that what I say is true. At least kinda but better than you guys cause you proved nothing at all you are talking only **** like your reality is the only right one and you don't discuss it.

lol you totally owned yourself and WhyBe cause you talked irrelevant things and showed that you do not understand what others talk about and you said the "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously just too stupid to understand" guy is wrong and this guy is obviously WhyBe with his "I don't discuss reality" phrase :D

He probably got into the Apple reality distortion field and I proved his "reality" is not real at all.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
You sound like you're under great mental pressure :D

Perhaps you realize that you haven't proved anything (other than HD2 is fast) and you have no support from anyone on your "WM is just as fast as iPhone OS claim."

Don't get so upset, it's just a discussion thread ;)

Making a statement and proving something are two different things. Nothing has changed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
So that is all you have to defend your "reality"? lol you are a very poor guy :D

You made only statements I made proofs or at least strong hints in form of VIDEO and you made nothing at all. Your statement is totally not supported by anything it's just a claim that you made with nothing to prove it and you know it is wrong.

You are really poor. Sorry for saying that. Only poor people need to say something like "I don't discuss reality" because they can not otherwise defend their "reality".

Grown up people know no discussion can be led on the basis of "I don't discuss my reality". Grown up people don't talk about reality they ask questions and look for answers like I did when I compared iPhone to HD2.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Sure, whatever you say dude... ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
Haha you just proved again how poor you are that you need phrases like this to defend your "reality".

Anyway as it is now all the hints that people delivered say your "reality" is not a reality. And because you need phrases like above it is very obvious that you can not defend your reality like a grown up.

And thanks that for proving it again with your post below :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
;)

________________________________
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
+100 on this post.

to add to it, the iphone screen size and res has not changed in the last 3-4 years. I am assuming that is because the apps are designed and optimized for that size and resolution. As opposed to WM where there is VGA, QVGA, WVGA, etc + number of keys is always different. This hampers the developers ability to focus on the target.
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
I'm gonna go with the Microsoft tag-line of it being an information-based interface rather than an Apps-based one. Out-of-the-box there's just so much more there, and so much more integrated in to the OS. Even 3rd party apps look like they'll work in the OS, rather than next to it.

Then there's the usual;

Xbox Live

Office

Other MS services (Working Hotmail, unlike the iPhone. Native Live messenger)

Hardware keyboard!

If the iPhone makes you believe it is faster than Windows Mobile by being fluid, then isn't that just a property of how much Windows Mobile sucks? Likewise on the usability front. Why should people need to know how to handle their phone? Why should they have to learn? I never get how, on here, this is regarded as a bad property of the iPhone. Hate it for the things that it is bad for, not the things it helped improve in the industry.

I do get what you mean though. I picked up an iPhone a few months ago to try out and it's not a particularly quick device. Certainly no faster than my X1 (though that's vs the iPhone 3G, not the 3GS). It is also a limiting experience. Even when jailbroken the level of customisation is nothing compared to Windows Mobile. Overall I've been finding it to be a better platform, though far from perfect.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sm3rtlag3l:
lol @ the people who burnt others for predicting no multitasking, no copy and paste etc.!!

people told you so and it was sooo obvious!

Why does it suck just because it is not fluid?!

Yes, fluidity makes a better experience but it is only one part of the whole experience. I would admit that for non-powerusers, iPhone provides the better experience though.

iPhone 3G vs. X1 speed comparison is quite is fair, both have ARMv6 processors. iPhone 3GS has ARMv7, would be unfair to compare it to X1 speed-wise.

What I would prefer is Windows Mobile like it has always been, but with a fluid UI and nice graphics and APIs for developers. The UI was not bad at all, just ugly and not fluid. But the softkeys etc. concept was good actually.

That would be perfect and they could have made it much quicker than WP7. I guess that is what they originally planned for WM7, but then dumped it and made the WP7 iPhone clone.

Still better than iPhone OS because of the nicer UI but without all the apps and without c&p, the disadvantages are huge as well.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
If it makes 3G slower then it will make 3GS slower too...it is just an imperceptible (but existent) slowdown on the 3GS. As apps get bigger and more demanding/sophisticated (which always happens) the slowdowns may become perceptible later on in the life cycle of the device.

Either way, slowdowns don't happen in multitasking until resource conflicts begin to happen. So it is quite possible to use multitasking without suffering a slowdown while other users suffer slowdowns. It all depends on the resources that are demanded by the multitasking apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
It depends on the OS and the overall optimization I guess. Apple does it very well so the 3gs is not slowed down by multitasking. To be fair, even 3G will not be slowed down if you're only running two or three third party applications. It will only become laggy when the RAM level become low. With the amount of RAM size in 3GS, I never find that an issue. Steve Jobs thinks it will slow down but we who have been multitasking with it are the ones with real experience and know better. In any case nobody should tell me what I can or cannot do, Apple or MS.

I don't want a version 1 iPhone from MS when I can have a jailbroken version 4 iPhone. MS jeered at iPhone when it was first released but now over-worships it. MS is copying the Apple Store, Application Store, limited hardware variation, and simplicity and I don't have problem with that. I also like to see MS copy Apple's policy of allowing up to five devices to use the same software/music/video to save cost. Where I have problem with is when it also copies the weaknesses like no multitasking, no copy and paste, no external storage, no file explorer, etc. MS should emulate a jailbroken Iphone if it want to be a copycat, not the stock iPhone which IMO is not a good enough model for copying (although stock iPhone is currently still way way ahead of WPS7)

If I can't jailbreak to get multitasking, file explorer, do heavy customization, do large file download, etc on my iPhone, then I would certainly abandon it for Android. I understand that majority of the users do not look for or need those capabilities, but I don't fall under that category for sure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ronkra:
"Hardware will always be upgraded with each new phone. Hard to see what the big deal is about snapdragon. The final speed and fluidity is what counts."

Only hard to see if you can't bring yourself to state the fact that there are smartphones out there that are faster and more fluid then your precious feature phone. What's the big deal...lmao. Fluid and faster as in; all things respond not by looping pre defined tweened animations that somehow are always off in comparison to the imput provided. That is the "big deal" about the snapdragon. Give us a break with the iphone propaganda already.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
If you really believe that snapdragon is that much better than Apple's upcoming A4, then you're seriously brainwashed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ronkra:
If you really can't read what I typed on the last post you shouldn't make yourself look that way. Desperate, while trying to compare a Snapdragon processor, that kicks anythings ass today, with something that isn't out yet and that no one can bona fide judge from a stand point of pure speed in operation.

Repeat, take it to the bank, the "big deal" about the Snapdragon is that today it kicks your feature phone pre-tweened "fluid" effects to the curve.

If you want to compare future models that are not out yet, compare it with future Snapdragon dual cores and higher clock speed cpu's that are announced. Guess that may be too mind blowing for ya, but whatever, try.

And no need for the shrink talk, if you want to talk brain washed just look at your nick for starters. You know what you little troll, take it or leave it, your just making an ass out of yourself.

You probably aren't used to being confronted with facts so that stretch into ad hominen would be convenient as it was comparing your next "big white hope" with something that would be dated but let's rest future cpu's that have not come out yet, that game is up for grabs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eaglesteve:
Lol. I didn't realize your wp7s is already out. My apology sir. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
I've had lots of fun playing with my 10 different HTC phones trough the last 3 years. but it's been 3 years of re-flashing over and over again. HTC has to my knowledge not made one phone yet that hasn't gotten complains about missing drivers or missing (or yet bugy) futures. HD2 had to get update after update before it even got close to what it was suppose to be and it still isn't perfect yet. so I can see why MS is trying to do it different this time around... most of the annoying thinks with WM phones in the past have been caused by 3-party software.

Wp7s is not going to be on my next phone because I'm sick of having a copy of an apple product. So my next phone is going to be iPhone

I've had Windows based pc's for the last 20 years and always thought Mac's were = evil. I now have an iMac and can finally make music without messages like CPU is to "slow to play song" although I also have a HP that has almost the same spec as my iMac but can't handles the same songs. Same goes to video editing.

MS has tried to copy Apple in every way the can but done it badly every time.

so the get back to the answer there are no advantages over iPhone except from maybe that there aren't any useless farting apps in the store yet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Some people diasgree :)

They (Novell) could port XNA games to iPhone via MonoTouch, but it does not necessary that it could connect to Xbox LIVE.

And that's big difference.

You doubt :) Do you think the processor will never get better? Last time was under 1GHz, now there is 1GHz, and even further 1.5GHz dual core.

And what's the point? Even in current state, under emulator, WP7S has already been jailbroken!

Yeah right, you cannot compare with the upcoming MS office of WP7, they have not been released.

So does other manufacturers, hardware will always evolve to be faster, stronger, etc.

And the good news with WP7 (and Android) ecosystem that you can CHOOSE what kind of hardware do you want. One with small screen, big screen, hardware keyboard ... :)

You can always browse to google.com if you want to search using Google.

Oh please ... how many crappy fart apps there?

Yeah you said it yourself. Without jailbreaking, iPhone is nothing ... simply a boring phone which you cannot do much.

Yea ... yea yea ... iPhone is nothing without jailbreak :)

But still low res, blocky, no matter how you change it. You cannot avoid that.

Just pray the iPhone 4G will have at least WVGA :)

Yupe, without jailbreaking, your iPhone cannot do that :)

The fact is that by default, an iPhone is not jailbroken.

That's the fact.

Take your argument on the HD2 forum.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
Well without custom roms and without some of the freeware apps made by people on here our WM phone are nothing at all.

I've been cooking roms for all my HTC model phones. Whats the first think to do ... well remove all that is not needed then it's time to add reg tweaks and hacks then comes the adding of 3 party XDA freeware so to release the rom to the public and getting bug reports. then comes the time trying to fix all the bugs. Now we got most of the bugs out but wait there is a new phone and a new built out. now we need all the new stuff from that phone ported over and getting it all working after a cupple of days I have a perfect rom (I think) release it only to get more bug reports and back to fixing.. but what now HTC releases a rom update fixing the bugs you been trying to fix the last month. well you just spent a month trying to fix something that was a bug with in a exe or dll that you had no chance of fixing.

and by what we know by now WP7S phone can't do much unless it's jailbroken.

This is the storry of MS all the way from 3.11 to Windows 7 and WM 2003 to WP 6.5 remove this and disable this to make it run smooth. how many apps(lets just call it fart apps) are around the net for tweaking windows.

Apple computers are in general more expensive the windows computers.

Well thats because they are built to run the OS well.. you can also get get windows computers that can run windows well but they do also cost more then supermarket models.

Therefore I only see it as a good thing that MS is closing down on WP7S because then they know it will run well.

I which that they would do the same for their computers where they had 3-4 different version of spec's not OS lets say net, game, business and media then you would know what you get when you buy a PC and you would not expect being able to play the heavy big 3d games on the low budget net pc you bought at a supermarket.