yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] zelendel:
Hold the TALK, END, and backlight( on top of the phone) With the phone off till you get the reset screen. or if the phone is on then hold all 3 and use the stylus to hit the reset button till you get to the screen to reset.

Info found here
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Wilhelm:
Before all this came out there was word going around that there would be a media and a business edition. What happened to these rumors? Maybe the one we saw is the media edition and the business edition will be more like previous versions without all these restrictions.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Rumors aren't always (or even usually) right. It goes against the core beliefs of what MS has been saying for a while now. I was pretty sure the rumor was BS right from the start just from that alone. MS has been pushing the convergence of business and home, especially on phones. Yea, WM has been a far cry from that but this is their foray into changing that.

They can spin it saying WM 6.5.3 is the "business" version while WP7 is the "media" version but that's a stretch.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
I will think that as well.

And I still believe and certain that there would be very good support and applications for business people on WP7.

- WP7 can handle Microsoft Exchange emails

- WP7 should be able to handle Microsoft Exchange calendar (if you watch the video demo, there are "red" and "blue" entries in the calendar, red for business)

- WP7 has Office hub, which means Microsoft Office, what else? Meaning Word and Excel, they are the most standard application. PowerPoint? I cannot think any reason it wont be supported.

- WP7 demo mentioned "specifically" for OneNote and SharePoint

- WP7 has access to MyPhone service to store files remotely (correct?)

- WP7 has decent web browser

- WP7 has calculator (and I am sure there will be better alternative from 3rd party)

What else do you want for doing business?

- Hardware keyboard, no brainer, it has been mentioned WP7 "could" have hardware keyboard.

- Remote Desktop application? This is just a remote viewer of Windows PC, this should be possible.

- Telnet/SSH? :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] burnblue:
They were just rumors dude. As said, the OS demoed had both an Office Hub and a Zune hub. Everything needed for business and play. Think of it as Windows Ultimate, but the only version.

Microsoft already announced what they had, why bring this up?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mazzarin:
Yeah I'm not following why many people think WM6.5/6.5.X is going to be the 'business line' of phones.

WP7S guidelines say no candybar hardware keyboard phones - fine (that may have just been a rumor, too lazy to look now.) That doesn't mean it's not suitable for 'business.' The slider keyboard or even virtual keyboard are sufficient as well (see the iPhone gaining acceptance in the enterprise.)

The Xbox Live hub? The emphasis on Zune? I'm sure it can be hidden away, still dormant in the background, but not so prominent on the front home screen.

I see no reason why WP7S couldn't be a business platform.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gerryjoson:
A stylus, no giant keyboard that takes up over half the screen [so you lose the overall context of the document] that I still can't type on, a screen I don't have to touch with my filthy fingers, not having to zoom in and out and pan all day to edit text....seeing as WP7 is going to be all capacitive and have giant space inefficient icons and menus, I can't see how it's going to be an improvement for anybody working with word/excel/outlook
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
There will be WP7S phone device that has hardware keyboard.

So don't worry with that half screen size virtual keyboard when you have hardware keyboard.

I believe it has been mentioned here by Joe from Microsoft:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/LauraFoy/First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo/
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
Yea, but what about the multi-touch capacitive hardware specification they made. That's just silly, I prefer resistive touch screens because I like using a stylus I don't know why they'd limit their device to capacitive and alienate anyone that actually likes a precise stylus. Even if capacitive stylus do exist they're not as good, and they're sold separately from the device, so no more handy stylus storage on your phone.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Where have you been during the last couple of years? Stylus is dead. It's going away, and won't be seen anywhere in two years from now.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
While I know many people like and use capacitive screen, that doesn't mean that people like me don't exist that don't like smudging up their screen as the only means of interfacing with your device.

I occasionally touch my screen for small things like closing an application, changing tracks, etc. But that's with my finger nail. I don't like smudging up my display device, it seems counter productive to me. But if I intend to use my device for any prolonged period of time I like having the precise touch of a stylus as an option at the least.

But like I said, the issue isn't with capacitive devices existing, it's with stylus based interfacing disappearing when there's no real reason for it to go away. Even if it's a smaller segment of the market, it's part of the market nonetheless.

I actually like drawing on my phone, it's fun. I like being able to edit text that's very small because I have that precision I need. And I like not smudging up my screen with my clamy hands.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Well, in that case you have to be very careful with whatever device you have because in a couple of years you won't find a replacement for it, sorry.

MS is of course doing the right thing here as they want to not allow interfaces that require the kind of precision you like so much.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
I agree your UI shouldn't depend on a precision tool. But you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Precision tools have their place. But There are things that are easier with a precision tool.

Copying and Pasting for instance is far easier with a stylus than your finger on text that's zoomed out.

Freehand notes are far better done with a stylus than your finger.

etc.

I'm sure the stylus will be back when resistive multitouch technology becomes better. The stylus makes sense for alot of scenarios.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
imo you're making the mistake of conflating UI design to the type of screen. Yes, microsoft is making the right move by moving away from stylus only control to a better touch UI.

But do you think the wp7 UI would be totally different if a resistive screen would be allowed along with a capacitive screen as the input? I don't see pinch zoom as being the crux of the entire wp7 UI.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
I swear the only thing I use my stylus for is to hit the reset button.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Kloc:
I use the stylus on my device everyday. Not exactly when I'm doing the day to day stuff. But when I'm in my Calc class I use a graphic calc software on my device called spacetime and it's much easier to use my pencil to type on the calculator then having to put it down then use my fingers. Once we get capacitive I'll be force to use my fingers. I'm not that mad about it though. It will just take some getting used to.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
It would make a world of difference because some devices would have multitouch and others wouldn't. That's exactly the situation they are trying to avoid with their new approach.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
I have not seen anywhere in the entire UI that multitouch was required. I think the only feature that leverages multitouch is the pinch zoom. And I'm sure pinch zoom isn't the only method of zoom.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
If you're a developer writing a game... how do you design controls for some phones that have 4-point touch and others that are only 1?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
Yea, but you're not me. I use my stylus whenever I use my device for more than just a touch or 2. I'm just making the case that different kinds of users exists so I don't know why they'd limit the input device like that.

Besides, am I to understand that this 3 button limit wp7 imposes means that you can't have volume buttons and customizable button like a voice command button, and Dpad?

If so that's pretty bad as well in tandem with a capacitive screen in winter/glove style scenarios.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
It's an official requirement, and even though you've only seen it for zooming, you should keep in mind that a successful consumer platform should also be a gaming platform. If MS wants to be big in mobile space they need games ported to WP7. And in order to have a chance here they'll need to avoid platform fragmentation at all costs.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
you design it for multitouch if you need multitouch. And it's on the user who bought a device without multitouch to not buy it, or return it if he didn't know.

Besides, multitouch is happening for resistive screen technology as well. So going forward I don't know why'd they'd limit it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Yes, you could do that but that situation sucks hard for the end user, for the developer, and everyone else involved. The normal person will not understand why their phone only supports one touch whereas their friends running the same OS and looks pretty similar supports more. For a developer there's nothing worse than this sort of absurd fragmentation and was one of the main problems on WM.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Correct. But you're in the minority, I'm not. You could always buy a capacitive stylus if your heart desires one oh so much.

No. In fact I read somewhere that volume, on/off, and camera buttons are also required. Not sure how to reconcile that with MS's statements that they'll only have 3 buttons except that the caveat was "on the front". Even their demo device had more buttons than just the 3 so I know for a fact that you can have more, but must at least have the 3 on the front.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
Well the normal user doesn't understand why you can't tap a capacitive screen with anything but your finger itself and special styli either. So education is always needed when buying a complex device.

But I have a hard time imagining that anyone that would install a custom game on their phone can't understand single touch from multitouch if it was written on the device as a feature.

And there's hardly anything absurd about liking a stylus. So it's perfectly fine to fragment that in my mind.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
I also use stylus now on my HTC Kaiser. Why? Because using finger is difficult :)

The thing is, I believe it will down to habit and after getting a long with capacitive for sure you will feel it as natural.

I cannot explain it, but I hope you understand my point.

When I get this WP7, I cannot use stylus, then I will be "forced" to use my finger ... And I will get used to it :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
The point isn't that users can't understand why they have to do something it's that all devices are the same. Developers don't have to pick and choose who they want to develop/design for.

There's no fragmentation over styluses. The only people that will have them are people that really want them and they don't fundamentally change the design of applications.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
I'm not spartan about not having a stylus. So it's not like I would totally make my sole decision of a phone on capacitive vs. resistive. My preference is just resistive, as I like the accuracy and the ability to use the touch interface with a tool, a fingernail or finger itself. I'm no artist, but I find it fun to draw on my phone leisurely, and I often take handwritten notes on my phone. I think Gates was right when he said a mobile UI that got it right would be some mix of pen, kb, touch, and voice inputs.

But yes, I could adjust to not using a stylus. Just like I could adjust to playing a first person shooter game on an xbox console controller, but I'd always still prefer the mouse and keyboard controls that are available on PC. Just like I'll always prefer not to touch the screen with my fingers for non-trivial tasks.

I've been hanging onto my phone (Samsung i760) for like 3-4 years now because I saw little reason to upgrade. So I figured I'd wait for things like tegra devices and wp7 to make an informed decision of true next gen devices.

But my decision is made so much harder now. There are some things I do like about wp7, but also things I dislike...also there are some other pretty sweet devices/OSes that I didn't see coming 2 years ago when I decided just to hold off instead of getting a new phone. I think I made the wrong decision 2 years ago, and I should have just upgraded my phone. It really looks like I really have to wait another year or 2 till we see more generations of things like the n900, and more mature android and wp7 phones.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
Don't know if you ever used a stylus for a capacitive screen, but it doesn't feel like the resistive screen. Especially when you try to do charts, hand-write, color or draw.

Also controls are fragmented all the time for game development. Control options should be configurable in a game anyway. Just like PC games, a game should be able to be configured for use with many inputs...keyboard/mouse, joystick, gamepad, steering wheel, etc.

Unless the game's core functionality is touching 2 places at once on a screen, then multitouch should not be the only method of controlling the game.

Besides if I were to really buy a phone with gaming in mind, I want to see an advanced D-pad, and buttons that have anti-ghosting. I do not want to use a virtual gamepad ala sf4 on the iphone for example. And if real gaming and not just casual gaming ever took off phone devices, you'd expect to see blue tooth peripherals and/or docks, and that would make your headspin by the sounds of it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ninja4hire:
I personally think there will be 2 different versions. I think they are calling it windows phone 7

series

for a reason. I think there is no way Microsoft is not going have a business class for their OS (IMO).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Really, where have you been during the last two years? I see logic in what you're saying and I may personally agree in preferring buttons to touchscreen in many cases, but do you know that the iPhone became a bigger platform than Nintendo DS and Sony PSP?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
Personally I think people are interpreting this incorrectly. If I had to put some money down on what the meaning of it was:

Windows Phone 7series...alot of people are expecting to see multiple versions of Windows Phone. I take it to mean that we'll see something like Windows Tablet 7series. And the next gen of both would be 8series. Maybe even have a day when it's Windows Desktop/Tablet/Phone 10-series :).

I find it hard to believe they would want people to use this OS for phones alone and not look at other markets like MIDS, and tablets. It would be odd to hold something that's not really a phone and have it run an OS called Windows Phone
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
Yes, but maybe because people want 1 device instead of 2-3. Not because it's a superior gaming platform. DS, and PSP are limiting platforms, even more so than the iphone. Also I'd like to see a study that says it's not casual gaming driving the iphone and actually is advanced gamers. Which is what you seem to be inferring.

I for one have never seen someone playing what I'd call a non-casual game on a mobile device yet. But I have seen advanced games on the DS, PSP, etc.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] hasseye:
i'm sorry but resistive screens are a dieing breed. Once WS7 hits, there will most likely be no manufactorers left producing resistive touch screens. Theres just no point...it is said that with resistive touch is more accurate and capactive is more finger friendly...

how often a day/week/month/year are you actually doing "business" stuff? rather than just using a phone..answering, calling people, text messages, email, checking the time, etc... do you know how long it would take if you had to take out the stylus everytime to answer the phone or to send a text message? i send thousands of text messages a month. The stock HTC keyboard is a finger friendly keyboard, the stock WM keyboard is used for the stylus, imaging having to type on that everyday my god, id go crazy.

these are all the most common basic features people use a cell phone for, and you fall into that category as well. At the end of the day its a phone, companies want to make these phones as easy as possible. They would rather sacrifice the advanced features to make the basic features more simplier and more user friendly.

if your using your phone for more business stuff, and don't make text messaes as often or call people as often then you shoudl think about purchasing a PDA....there a dieing breed as well, but you can still acquire one and have it do what you want it to do.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
You're not really making any sense, as I'm not advocating that stylus should be the only means of inputting into your device. I like resistive because it gives you the option to have multiple types of input and it feels more accurate when I'm doing so. There are many many people that use pure touch with resistive screens. Resistive has it's quirks but so does capacitive. I don't see capacitive as being the superior technology to resistive. Especially if you've ever heard of the Stantum Resistive Multi-touch.

I'm not advocating the stock WM keyboard, so I don't know why you brought that up either. I don't know why so many people associate a stylus with bad features from windows mobile?

As for how I use my phone:

-Voice: Opening Programs, accessing Playlist, calling people on contacts list

-Dpad + Keys: Playing Games, like Genesis Roms and other games of that type. I also using it for scrolling and navigation occasionally when I one-hand my phone.

-Stylus: drawing, freehand notes, copying and pasting text when zoomed out fairly far. Generally use it to touch the screen when I'm really using the phone to do something.

-My phone has a dial pad on it for ease of use

-Keyboard for about 90% of text inputing, I use the stylus to handwrite sometimes for small messages

-I use my fingernail, when I'm in out on the street and just want to do something on my phone for 2s

The most important things to me are probably smart voice command that can be accessed through a button on the phone, or a headset style device, and a keyboard. In a dream device I wish I could access it via voice at anytime without pressing a button like startrek. But that would require it be listening all the time.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Nope, I don't use a stylus at all. Don't see the point really. I guess if you have sausage fingers you might disagree.

A phone is NOT a computer. The MS folks said exactly that during the unveiling of WP7 (and I mean EXACTLY). All of those options are nice when your install base is massive and you've got plenty of ports and a user who is specifically setting out to play games for an extended period of time. None of those typically exist on a phone. Just look at how much PC gaming has taken a back seat to console gaming. They eliminate many of those variances. Yes, wheels and other form factors exist but are relatively rare and even then are still (generally) just conversions of the standard controller buttons. Stepping down to a phone you'll have even less room for varied controls because of the reasons I already mentioned. I mean, who carries a joystick around with them? If you're sitting at home playing games you should either be fine with the limitations of a phone or go buy a console already.

There's other hardware available. There's physical buttons, accelerometer as well as a camera.

You can do "real gaming" without having traditional hardware devices. If you're attaching (via bluetooth or cords) you're best off using a PC or a Computer. Not sure how you would even do that with a tiny screen.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
I personally don't care about multitouch, but I do care about the screen surface materials. I find resistive technology going away a good thing because I can finally stop sticking these stupid protective films on the screen. Glass surface is the winner in my case.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Shasarak:
While my HD2 is a sufficiently big improvement on my old Touch Pro2 that I don't regret the change, I do desperately miss being able to use a stylus. The thing it was most useful for was simply web-browsing - especially on sites like this one. If you want to move to a different page of a thread on here then clicking on one of the page numbers is a nightmare: you have to zoom in to insane levels (which is annoying because of the way the text reflow works - the page always jumps when you zoom right in, so you end up in completely the wrong place and sometimes even have to zoom out again to find the page number links). My typing accuracy on the portrait-orientation keyboard was also far better with a stylus.

Capacitive styluses, sadly, are a bad joke: the tip has to be something like 1cm across to work, which completely eliminates the point of having a stylus in the first place - they're supposed to allow you to click accurately on very small things.

Strictly speaking I don't think WP7 is incompatible with resistive screens - it requires a screen capable of 4-point multi-touch, but it doesn't actually specify "capacitive". However, I am not getting my hopes up for a multi-touch resistive screen. :( Maybe someone will figure out how to make a not-totally-pointless capacitive stylus, we'll see.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gom99:
I'm in the same boat as far as my preference to use a stylus. During the thread I may come off that I'm totally anti-capacitive screens, but I'm not, I'm more than willing to admit they have their bonuses as well.

At the same time, there's functionality I currently use with my stylus that can't be replicated suffuciently imo with capacitive screens. Drawing being the major one.

As far as your typing accuracy, that could probably be greatly improved with better software. I hear the iphone is great at correcting your mistakes while typing. I've used an iphone, but not so much as to study the effects of that overtime though.

The things I've read said Multitouch capacitive, that might just be some liberties taken by the author though. That's what worries me. If it was just multitouch, then I'd have hope for resistive multitouch wp7 devices.

Actually this whole Stantum Multitouch resistive technology has my hopes up. Not sure if you've seen the demonstration but it's pretty slick.

How it works

It in action

It's not even the only game in town when it comes to multitouch resistive tech, so I'm keeping my hopes up.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] addicus:
Simply because the people buying the phones in droves have moved on without a stylus and they want to make money now!