yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
True. That's why I said people can believe what they want.

I'm just telling them what I know. Why? Cause I hate when companies get away with pretences like that.

It's their own decision whether they want to believe it or not.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] traianescu:
everything is money

i really don't know that microsoft gives something for free... wm7 is a new OS, so no upgrade for any old device.. "3 buttons only", "wrong hardware" is only dust in the wind
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Exactly...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Fine but is discussing freyberry really a substitute for lack of subject to discuss? :) Anyway, I'm not a moderator or anything, just a fellow member who's a bit tired of getting new reply notifications only to see that somebody found a new reason to explain why freyberry is a bad character or him explaining in his charming straightforward fashion that the poster of the previous message has mediocre analytical skills or what not. :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
haha... must say you're a pretty smart guy :)

Sorry, people, if I hurt your feelings or destroyed your world view...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
Guys, dont feed the troll ...

Everyone can say that he/she has super secret source that said this and that.

And then bragging and insulting other users ...

Sorry, I have no respect for this kind of behavior.

I wish this forum has ignore user feature.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Who's the troll? Do you have to say anything at all? No, you don't.

At least, I have something to say. And it's your decision whether you believe it or not.

Apparently I hurt some MS fanboy feelings here? Huh...

... maybe I should get a signature like "proud from being banned from xda-devs for accusing MS of lying"...?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] young blade:
I also think that the 3 button statement is just an MS coverup..

I think there is something else playing in tha background..

and believe me.. its all about cash..:cool:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] elyl:
If there are "political" reasons as to why the HD2 won't get an upgrade, why don't you tell us? You can't be the only one to know - if it's that high up, you'll not even be close to being the only one to know. What have you got to lose?

Put up or shut up.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I told you why. What I've got to lose? Trustworthyness. Or do you think anyone would ever tell me anything again after I broke all promises I gave them?

You can't shut me up. There's no rule that says I mustn't talk about what I know. It's your desicion whether you believe it or not, but I'm allowed to post what I know.

Again, sorry if I hurt your MS loving feelings or destroyed your world view... but you don't have the right to shut up anyone, just because what he says doesn't comply with your world view.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] elyl:
Yeah, that confirms you're full of it. You trying to tell us these supposed "politics" are known to Steve Balmer, Peter Chou and you? If there is a political reason for it, it would be known up and down each company. You're trying to act like you're something special because you know this information. Unless you put this info up for scrutiny, you know nothing.

You'd be as well enjoying your Android and leaving this thread be.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] traianescu:
it is better if someone close all this threads about wm7.. the update costs money, so the only way to get it for hd2, for example, is xda.. wm7 is a challenge for the chefs, but this time is not the same like the step from vm6 to vm6.5
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I don't get what's up with you haters... you don't have to believe anything. Who are you, that you think you can shut up someone just because you don't like what he says?

And no, I can't enjoy my Android phone cause I gave it away... I have an HD2.

Whatever...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
I'm just wondering what "lies" MS has told re: WP7 on the HD2.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mazzarin:
Actually, not defending freyberry or anything, but WP7S is under tight lockdown, at least within MS. No idea about HTC.

I know plenty of phone enthusiasts who work there and they say they saw WP7S at the same time as the rest of us.

True, but how do you get your product 'out there'? Yes, you can release two FLAGSHIP phones from LG and HTC - very expensive and slow penetration. OR, you can release an upgrade for a very popular phone which is powerful enough to run WP7S, and have them be your "brand ambassadors." Delayed revenue, but at the upside of many enthusiastic boosters. Those who buy the HD2 are likely to buy flagship phones in the future - keep them happy.

It doesn't seem too unthinkable since the HD2 is pretty much the only phone in contention for an upgrade.

I for one would be more than slightly aggravated if I had to buy an "incremental upgrade" in hardware in order to run WP7s when I know this phone runs it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] caliban2:
true, but that would include to think beyond the figures in the next business report - i wouldn't bet on it. it's all about quick money and the memory of most users is rather short... ^^

but i guess until the mix everything is just speculation. no need to get agitated in this thread... :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mazzarin:
For most companies, yes. But historically, MS has always been the exact opposite. E.g. deferring sales of XP to count as Vista sales ('Windows'), etc. They are almost always in for the long fight! Their cash cows of Win/Office/Server move the company along, allowing their side ventures to figure things out.

HTC on the other hand :confused: I'm not so sure, I don't follow them as closely. :(
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] caliban2:
i wouldn't compare microsofts pc-business with mobile - different situations.

also think about this: when WP7 gets launched, the HD2 will be 1 year old - at least. so even IF an upgrade is "allowed" by microsoft - will htc do it? only hope is that the late us-start will convince htc to upgrade it. but... then they are changing target groups, they're starting more or less from scratch.

i'm not saying they'll never upgrade it, i don't know the calculations done by microsoft and neither does anyone else in this thread. one can find arguments for and against an upgrade alike, it's useless until the mix. :)

but just out of "good will" and to promote it? no company does that.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mazzarin:
Yes I agree it is pointless to argue but re: that, see iPhone :) If you can find a 2G from 2007 still in working condition, it is eligible for a current upgrade FROM APPLE despite pretty significant differences in the OS.

Though, you could say that is like us doing 6.1 to 6.5 to 6.5.x, but as far as I know, no phone has received official support through that full upgrade path, which is where XDA comes in.

Whatever, lets see!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] AndyDavidson:
Would putting Windows Phone 7 Series on an HD2 actually be a downgrade?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
You're right about Windows being different... a more accurate comparison would be Xbox or Zune; both of which lost money for years (has Zune even made a profit yet?) before being successful. WP7 is being run out of the same division (E&D) that makes the Xbox and Zune and some of the key people on WP7 were members of those teams.

If they don't announce a plan to upgrade the HD2, T-Mobile (US) might as well cut their losses and cancel their plans to carry it.

And I've said it already but I'll say it again... one HUGE reason they could offer the upgrade is so that devs have actual hardware to develop against. Emulators can only do so much, especially on a new platform that designers don't have a feel for. The only other somewhat viable option is the Zune HD but that has severe drawbacks including different screen size/resolution, no cell radio, GPS, camera, etc and it's only available in US/CAN. Of course they could start shipping phones to consumers with almost no software available and the software that is available being half baked and only tested in an emulator without a touchscreen. But that would be a pretty dumb plan. MS has said with extreme confidence that the marketplace won't be anywhere close to barren. Who's going to write software if you're stuck with using only an emulator?

Maybe the politics is exactly the opposite of what frey is insinuating? Maybe HTC and T-Mo had no plans to offer the HD2 in the US but MS convinced them otherwise just so that they had a device that devs could test against? Just wait til MS announces at MIX that the HD2 is the official development device for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Well, that consideration may be meaningful for Microsoft, but what's in it for HTC? They'd just waste the licensing fees and cannibalize sales of their upcoming flagship. Could Microsoft waver the fee? They could, but why? To have a flagship where the buttons they see as such a big deal are mucked up and will confuse consumers?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Yeah, that would be a good reason... A dev version not available on new devices from retail stores/networks would also remove any issues with mismatched buttons. It's just so... un-Microsoft and un-HTC that it's hard to believe in. And such a thing would involve megatons of politics because you have to figure out who pays whom and for what...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Errr... what?! Did I make any statement about that? I sure did not.

I just commented on the news that was spread today, the interview where MS allegedly claimed they would not allow an upgrade because of "too many buttons".

All I said was, the button story is not true, cause there's other reasons.

And actually, I do not know whether they will provide an upgrade. Until last week, it seemed almost certain that they would. But then I heard about those "political issues" and today, I read that piece of news, which may or may not be true.

All I said is, if Microsoft really does not provide an upgrade and says its because of that button, then they're just using this as a pretence.

Would I want the HD2 to be the development device for WP7? Sure, after all, I've got one myself. You are absolutely right with your points. Who will buy an HD2 from TMO without the promise of an upgrade? I hope nobody. And of course, they need to have a device for developers out as soon as possible (though I'm not sure whether the upgrade for the HD2 would actually come sooner than other devices).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] caliban2:
i have to admit, it's fun to play the devil's advocate... :D

that's an argument, yes. but (right now we don't know for sure!) it's said that microsoft will take more control about app-development, the distribution etc (just like apple). so far there will be two kind of developers: those with full access to the phone's hardware and those with a limited access, only via .net.

the first group is MS itself, OEMs and certified developers (meaning: mainly companies, because these certificates cost money). ever heard of "non-disclosure agreements"?

the second group are the "normal" app-developers, smaller companies. so far they seem to be limited in what they can do and what not. they don't need hardware to test their apps - if they follow the sdk, it will work. and MS will test the app before allowing it in marketplace. (just like apple)

all i'm saying is: don't get false hopes because of what they "should" do, coming from the point-of-view of an xda-user - apparently some things are going to change. the keyword is "MIX". :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mazzarin:
I doubt that the HD2 would be pushed as hard come November (or whenever launch comes.)

The HTC Obsession (Diamond3) and the LG Apollo are slated to be the 'launch phones' and they would probably be the ones pushed at operator stores across the world. The HD2 might be available but it'll almost certainly be running 6.5/6.5.x and only devs/those 'in the know' would have WP7s on there.

There are a whole world of people out there who have bought a HD2 and haven't the faintest idea about XDA-developers, pocket now, et al. They are happy with their purchase for the most part, and when WP7s comes out, they'll think it logical to have to upgrade to a new phone in order to get WP7.

Offering an upgrade for the HD2 will not significantly cannibalize HTC revenues.

Honestly, how many people are there really on the HD2 forums? 5,000? 10,000? It won't make a difference in the big picture of a phone launch.

There are still people running 1.48 ROMs out there.

Sidenote: According to leaked specs, the Diamond3 is no better than the HD2. It has a AMOLED screen though.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] airmax95:
Well done Microsoft. Shooting yourself in the foot by shafting some of your long term and best customers who upgrade to the latest tech but stay winmo. Playing right into Androids hands.

I always saw the hd2 as the phone to keep interest in winmo alive and then become the first winmo 7 phone. Why else would they spec it so high.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ramdroid77:
Just some thoughs... MS are fighting the iPhones and their apps. So if you look at this hubs kind of thing replacing the traditional standalone app... maybe the plan is that WP7 is already good enough WITHOUT any additional apps?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] young blade:
I think most people who have an HD2 are expecting a upgrade.. because most people who are even considering buying a phone that costs +550 euro's must realy be Hightech lovers who always like to have the best stuff..

and the HD2 is a the best device out there at the moment.. and its still fresh.. I for instance am not going to buy a new phone for the next 2 years.. and if we won't get an upgrade I wont forgive MS & HTC..

and yes I know (for the ones who itching their fingers to flame) nothing was ever promised but thats just how I feel.. and we've got a right to feel this way!!:mad:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chris5932:
+1, totall agree
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] tsalta:
This is Not Good im with Blackstone but this was the same for US when we Buy Blackstones was the latest Model and 2 years Later we even don`t have Official WM 6.5 Update

God to Bless XDA.. because if this Forum was not here i will brake my Blackstone on the ground.

From long time i think that HTC and Microsoft have some problems with the comunication and just the things not working...

HTC make good Devices but when they don`t have OS support its sucks.. and just dont have sense.

So its normal when you buy the latest Device to have Minimum ONE upgrade because now this news for all HD2 Users sound.. something like

" He He He We sell you our devices, now we will release New for another 600 euro that will be able to have WM7"

Everytime when something heppand im starting to hate Microsoft more and more.. idiots.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
What would be more interesting?

The upcoming US version of HD2 will have .... only 3 buttons :)

And probably with the new processor bla bla bla WP7S requirements bla bla ...

PS: That was from one of comment here:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/01/microsoft-sending-mixed-signals-on-windows-phone-7-series-upgrad/

Plausible? :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
It's not going to help if these buttons aren't start, back and search. :p Nobody ever said you can't have more than three buttons. You just have to have all three of the above.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mazzarin:
So TMobile US is showing the wrong phone on their website? :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Guys...

... believe it or not: The button requirements apply only to new devices (unless they suddenly changed their mind). If anyone tells you, that your device will not get an upgrade, because it has the wrong buttons, then this is a lie.

Period.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] abo3bdo:
Why we do not blame HTC Too

We just put all blames on Microsoft what about HTC this was happend before with blakstone users we but the most expensive WM in the market it was about 900 $ in Egypt and we got a promisse from HTC oficcial technical support that the HD will got the upgrade to WM 6.5 then we got no thing as they were planing to represent the HD2 this is a big bussiness game and I think that it is a deal between MS and the manufacturer to represent more devices and ern more mony this is the market and if I am manufacurarer and give you a device that will work to the infinity and is upgradeble till the infinety how I can sell you my new devices :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] hyellow:
I read somewhere... (here on XDA too) that it doesn't matter if a device lacks a hardware search button. It could also be a soft key, as long as it was always visible.... anyhow...

From my point of view, i don't think the HD2 will get an upgrade by HTC. Why not? HTC has already spent alot of doh for the license on WM6.5 and i really doubt if they pull their wallet again for another lincense of WP7S. And by the time WP7 is out, HTC must have the succesor for the HD2 ready to hit the shelves. So... technically, it might all be possible... but from a bussines pov, it's hard to say. Anyway... it'll be HTC's call.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
I don't get how this is so hard for you to understand.

There's no technical reason to require a certain amount of buttons, it's purely design.

The "requirement" applies to all phones. Microsoft can easily choose to waive the requirement for the HD2 or any other device for that matter. It's purely their decision. They may choose to prevent HTC from releasing an update for "political" reasons as you so like to put it or they may not. The fact is the requirement exists for all WP7 devices. That doesn't mean Microsoft can't make exceptions.

It wouldn't be a lie at all if Microsoft refused to allow the HD2 to get an upgrade due to buttons. That's their rule. All devices must have the proper buttons to ensure that all WP7 devices share a common user experience. They want to make sure that all devices function similarly to reduce the fragmentation that exists in WM today. Whether allowing the HD2 to get WP7 would hurt their ecosystem or not is certainly up for debate (I tend to think it would be just fine). Just because it's not a technical limitation doesn't mean it's not a legitimate limitation.

Obviously the requirement doesn't apply to existing devices because there is no button requirement for WM6 devices! Any device running WP7 is supposed to have those buttons, end of story.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
If I am not mistaken (cmiiw), Microsoft will provide update to WP7S ...

So, instead of relying to phone manufacturer/mobile operator like HTC, T-Mobile, LG, etc ... The OS update will be given by Microsoft.

If this is true, I really like the approach, because to be honest, I dislike the way WM6.x now which we may or may not get OS update, officially.

I would dream the joy of hitting "Windows Update" button on my WP7S mobile phone :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] mcsti:
If M$ won' t supply the WP7S upgrade, then, at least, I expect HTC to offer Android OS for HD2 as an upgrade which can be a good!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Blades:
Who cares? WP7 looks like garbage anyways.. Any of you enjoy the new Bing?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] solomhamada:
i saw a picture of hd2 running win mo 7 (i'll call it that no matter what )

it exists .. and will leak eventually .. HTC wants the device to be sold .. and will leak it
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] leeuwtjevanjuda:
I heard from a respected member of the forum, they (HTC) are running WP7 on a HD2. It's certainly possible, but we only need to wait for MIX to know if Microsoft is allowing an upgrade.

If we don't get an upgrade, we have a big chance the devs at xda will port it, so dont worry.

If I were Microsoft I had some good reasons to allow an upgrade, and some good reasons to allow not.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] caliban2:
no need to go after my personal qualifications, but believe it or not: yes, i do know a littlebit about programming, but i'm not a dev myself. yet, as a project-manager in a media-company you have to know enough so you can actually understand what the devs are telling you... :p

b2t:

i never said one could develop everything without a hw-platform. but the question is: what sort of apps will developers outside of MS, OEMs and certain companies be ALLOWED to develop?! i've read the blog-post you've linked and it's really interesting to read. but he's talking about "priorities" during development. since you know a "littlebit" about programming you also know that "priorities" change in the process and never are "final results". (don't get agitated here, read on. ^^)

i won't search for a link now, but you've read the same after the show in barcelona: there's talk that MS is gonna restrict the access and possibilities what 3rd-party devs are allowed to do. hell, even OEMs seem to lose some of their freedom (guis like sense? apparently forbidden...) low-level-access to the system is supposed to be restricted, devs outside MS, OEMs and certified partners only get access via .net-apis. (i wrote "supposed to"! "seem to"! we don't know this for sure yet.)

yes, apple is releasing beta-firmwares. but did apple provide a hw-platform to "common" devs before launching the iphone? nope. (but then again, there was no app-store at launch, true... could make a difference.) and when WP7 get's released to the public, there will be at least one phone available. you're right, an emulator can't replace testing on a real piece of hardware. but microsoft does have hw to test. remember the rumour "no more installing apps from sd-card and as a cab, just via marketplace"? if all these limitations are to come, it limits the need for testing, because we won't see apps of the same type as we see for winmo 6.x now.

i'm not saying you are wrong and that i don't understand your points - on the contrary. but until the MIX we simply don't know how MS is going to lay out "development for WP7".

:)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] deadmau:
I sent an email to HTC support, and asked if HTC will release for HD2 Win7Series (I didn't say, upgrade)

And this is what they said, so what I understand, is that, if we want Win7Series we have to buy another phone
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] trinest:
I'm more interested in future hardware anyway- imagine what HTC could do- or some other well renound manufacture instead of someone like LG or Samsung.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sqex:
im guessing these are image and article that they are going on about

h ttp://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/HTC-HD2-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Info-Next-Month-2.jpg/[/url]

h ttp://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/HTC-HD2-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Info-Next-Month-2.jpg[/url]
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
There's nothing I don't understand.

YOU are the one who doesn't get it :rolleyes:

Read my post again and try to use your brain. I'm not going to explain it again. :mad:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] IR IE IN IE:
ZZZzzzZZZzzz.. just woke up .. but the topic makes me fall a sleep again!!!!** HD2 gets WP7 no matter what :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sheennick123456:
i read on forum somwhere that for WP7 you need multitouch capable screen which can detect 4 different points at once (not sure what you can do with 4 fingers on screen though)

so that might be the reason for HD2