yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Questions and Answers] Noonski:
Personally I think a great rule, would be to say that any Rom posted on XDA should be presented as a Pre-set Kitchen.

(it's not going to happen ever though).
[General Questions and Answers] chrisd1a1:
TBH, i think there will always be a 'people come, people go' situation. people will go to other sites for whatever reason. that is up to them

it's up to the individual (if they like that rom enough) to choose to follow one chef or pick another ROM.

Personally i think this discussion is getting a bit out of hand. the site and the group are here, it's a group effort that pushes the boundry. not just 3 or 4 people. in general most people do help others and it's a learning experience for the newer members. use someones rom, learn more, start to tweak then build your own (or choose not to)

i'm also don't feel it's fair to flame the mods in general. if there is an issue with one person raise it, it will be looked into.

just my 2 cents....

Chris
[General Questions and Answers] crazyC:
I still don't really get all the tension over this.

I check and follow a number sites, including XDA, Htcpedia, Modaco and occassionally a couple of others. If people have sources and don't want to share them, that is their prerogative just as normal users can hold opinions about that.

Why should there be all this talk of not linking to other sites? The site exists and people who want to try those roms will go and download it from there.

I did not realise some people feel this strongly that XDA must be the only place to go and all else must be evil and not acknowledged. I thought what we all wanted together was to find ways to get the best out of our phones.

Yes its sad if some people do not want to share, but well that is life. Often when one person leaves another who feels the opposite comes forward. If XDA is as important to HTC and MS as is said here, the do you think they will allow the sources to be locked away?

A do not think burning bridges after people as they leave is a great way to show them that XDA is a great community that they may wish to rejoin if they find that the grass is not always greener? Or are we going to try and cut off our noses to spite our faces and say that once gone you may never return?

Moderators have a job to do, if they cannot do it for whatever reasons then they should not be moderators. If they can do the job then they should stay - not sure any of this loyalty stuff matters much.
[General Questions and Answers] circleofomega:
I agree to every word you say..ok agreed, i had some stupid questions..but its no not like i started a new thread each time...i iasked it in the relevant ROM category and i was ridiculed and mocked at...

the time these people spend in saying "AH..you again" OR "Dont you read the rules" can simply answer my query also...but no...sigh..

alas, im not here to fight... im here to receive some knowledge and give whatever i have...if people want to feed their ego by mocking some new comer, its their choice...
[General Questions and Answers] bobsbbq:
Well again your likely one of those members that is just a user and all you care about is if you get a ROM or not for free. Read back through all the pages in this thread and the many other threads and maybe you will understand. Yes as just a users I'm sure you don't care about where the ROM comes from or it's sources that was used to make it. But there are many developers here who cook ROM's and make modifications and themes based on the sources we have.

Think about the others here on XDA that do provide things to you for free. They have a desire to have the latest sources just as you do the latest ROM.
[General Questions and Answers] mally2:
I really appreciate the cooks who have the patience to lesten to newbies and direct themn to the right answer...there are lots of fine exapmle!!!
[General Questions and Answers] bobsbbq:
Maybe since XDA doesn't care about Links maybe I will start my own site and build my membership with the help of XDA. :D:D

Maybe a site catering to newbies, Do it yourself ROM Cooking etc
[General Questions and Answers] crazyC:
I suppose that is a partially fair comment - generally yes I am a consumer on this site. Where I have been able to make suggestions/provide feedback or bring over tips/mods I have picked up elsewhere, I have. I share what I can.

Yes I would like to have the latest and best roms with all the bugs fixed etc and right now etc. But I understand that the Chefs on here do this for free and give up their time to do the best they can. I therefore demand and 'expect' nothing and am grateful for what I get.

I am sure that rom cooks and developers want access to the latest builds as soon as possible, and that seeing others have them and releasing roms with them is frustrating and that there will be a feeling of unfairness perhaps. I just dont see where the right to expect them to share the builds and slate them if they don't comes from. I tend to be grateful for what I have, rather than bemoan what I don't. Life is just easier that way. The release of new builds in the last six months or so seems to my admittedly inexperienced eyes to be significantly faster moving than ever before, so there is more cutting edge stuff to go round - people are not starved of new builds for months etc.

I still remember all the arguments when people started removing the rgus from their roms etc and then went down the protectionist route and all the arguments that ensued then.

If they are going to go, then they are going to go - why do we need to stamp our feet and create ill feeling to stop them coming back? Not sure how XDA benefits from that.

But anyway, as you point out, I am largely just a user of this site and so I shall now retire to my little corner of the room.
[General Questions and Answers] af974:
Ok this aint against you because i dont know you, anyway i see always a lot gentle people here.........anyway if user will start to search in forum and maybe read at least the 1st post and the last 2 pages of every threads , well i could see even more and more gentle people.

Its not about stupid questions but ......its only about some goodwill in search.
[General Questions and Answers] bobsbbq:
Mainly as a user you don't care or see the bigger picture. It is one thing if the Admin of HtcPedia wants to let there elite have the sources before their own members. But when they post them on XDA and release their ROM's before sharing the source to the other developers on xda you have to understand how it looks. And to make matters worse these are moderators.

The simple explanation is to build up HtcPedias membership. Read a couple pages back my analogy to the Car dealer
[General Questions and Answers] + Que PPC:
I'm on HTCpedia too, it doesnt matters if pay or dont pay... sorry if I am a lil direct... but that is not "YOUR" (whoever) job... if that guy runing away to htc pedia and get paid for "HIS" (developer) job, is ok!!! I will never left XDA, even if I am in so much WW sites... cause XDA is the Lion... ;) other sites are... lil kittys.
[General Questions and Answers] NRGZ28:
Sorry to say, but you totally missed the point of this discussion, in my opinion :)
[General Questions and Answers] the_scotsman:
That's good to hear!

Very well said, glad to hear an opinion of one of the best chefs on xda...:)
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
Hi Noonski,

So actualy what you are saying is every cook should share his whole kitchen?

Don't you think that's taking all the fun of releasing roms and you won't have any talented chef anymore?

Don't you think 'competition' is human and healty thingy?

A kitchen has the tools to create a rom but not everybody can cook a rom even if they have all the tools to do so.

In every profession you have talents and I think you should respect that, maybe better to explain is that why you have so many professions as every human has his own talents. ;)

And how would these "Chef-moderators" suit in this picture, the people who are hiding the sources for there fellow chefs and only share with the 'Elite group'?

Aren't they 'a little' provocating with these sources and are they realy doing a good thing to this community?

I don't think you can say donate to the developers and forget about the Chefs cause they are developers too and making a lot of people happy with there roms.

What would XDA be without a rom chef? ;)

Grtz Leo :)
[General Questions and Answers] Nagrom Nniuq:
While I agree with your first set of statements NRG (about who deserves the real credit), I disagree with the last part. Some, ok a lot, of us don't give a rip about having a super stable ROM, if we can have the latest and greatest features. So, these people leaking the latest stuff are super valuable to us also. Without them, I wouldn't even be using WM, as Android is a far superior platform.
[General Questions and Answers] ramdroid77:
Besides not using search function I really wonder how some people manage to download their apps/tweaks/ROMs etc. from XDA. In the magical 1st post there's usually bold red letters all around jumping in your face "Read this first" but they don't. Instead they reply in the thread "Doesn't work for me"..... graaammbblll!!!
[General Questions and Answers] ramdroid77:
oooh... another one about some cookers not sharing their sources. it's great if they do that of course but if they don't want (or delay it) then this is really up to them! they didn't sign up to XDA with the responsibility to share everything they do.... like a developer is not forced to go open source, doesn't he? I hope so!

And recently with so many builds appearing it doesn't really matter if you always got the highest build number on your phone because often people don't even know about the differences to previous builds. and if you still want to get the sources from those "elite" ROMs really bad then why don't you guys just download their ROM and extract the modules you need???
[General Questions and Answers] galaxys:
Chefs have their own life outside XDA, they can come or go or cook elsewhere. :cool:

But, haven't seen that many Chefs leaving.
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
Or the King can open his Kingdom and invite other farmers, with a new perspective and with new knowlegde to innovate what has been done.

But hey, this is the human race we are talking about, we don't get enough of paying a tribute to our legacy. Be proud to be a monkey, is the slogan these days. LOL I can't wait for the moment my fellow creatures are proud to tell they are the ancestors of an amoeba.
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
You have a good point here. But competition in what kind of game? To persuade as many users as possible to flash this or that rom? What's that all about? As a fairly new active member of xda-dev I am absolutely flabbergasted by the "competition" between all those roms out there. The more, because in the end they are all the same :D (building all on exactly the same building blocks).

What would be nice, and that would be real competition, when chefs are innovating what HTC and MS has done. That would be something that persuade me...

But don't get me wrong! I appreciate what chefs are doing for users that want the newest OS and the newest Manila version and don't have the time or other resources to build their own roms. And I absolutely agree with you that competition triggers people to grow and innovate, but the question to be asked here should be: what kind of competition are they involved in?! :)
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
There is no tension and that's the beauty of it. It is just the convulsion of a dying competition :) In the end innovations like Co0kiemonsters home tab or the great applications written and published here on xda-dev are really what matters. (Cooking is overrated LOL)
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
No offense but to my opinion that's a bunch of BS you are writing there.

The competition in cooking starts at the moment more users are choosing to flash your rom and the hits are growing on the rom thread you start.

That's the kick and competition I'm talking about.

Like I stated in previous post, you can have the kitchen/tools but that doesn't say everyone can cook.

In every profession you have talents and I think you should respect that, maybe better to explain is that why you have so many professions as every human has his own talents. ;)
[General Questions and Answers] _Alex_:
Hi Laurentis26,

I'm not Noonski, but since I'm a contemporary of yours from the Kaiser days, I thought I'd put in my two cents, since we have common ground.

It's counter-intuitive to hide things. We all eventually find ways to rip it out anyway, so why bother? It wastes time for both sides, so we might as well come clean and just be open.

And why should it be this way? Provide ROMs and kitchens and you'll see how many people can improve upon what you've done.

I don't speak for all chef/moderators, but I feel 'elitism' is for the young and inexperienced. Since we're all here to share with others, let's leave the cliques back in high school and get back to sharing. As mentioned earlier, it's counter-intuitive to hide things. It wastes time for both sides, so we might as well come clean and just be open.

I agree with Noonski and Chainfire on this one. It's the developers that have the creative spark. Whether it be the guy who wrote the new GUI interface, the guy who wrote the NBH decompiler, or whoever unlocked the SPL. Remember, it's not xda-chefs, it's xda-developers.

I'm not saying chefs have no place here, it's just that I've seen that developers get alot less donations than chefs do. Just ask some of the folks who made the BuildOS and NBH tools how many donations they've received versus donations for your ROMs and you'll quickly see the inequity.
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
You're absolutely right. Of course I'm writing BS in your opinion :D That's the problem of being tight to a legacy.. What I want to say is that every culture needs a kick in the ass so now and then to move forward. It's the exiting competition (the real competition) between tradition and innovation that makes the human race worthwhile.

Ok, this is philosophical bul****, but think about it. The question I like to raise in this discussion is what are the real benefits of the ongoing "competition" between chefs ? What are they innovating?

Ok, I like to pay my tribute to the innovators from the day of yore, that gave us all these tools to cook and flash. But did the innovation stopped there? Was that why some people did some great pionering work? To have thousands of chefs that are caught in a competition to be the best of creating more of the same?

And hey Leo, don't take this personally ;) I just want to trigger something.
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
* Indeed that's needed sometimes.

How's cooking going Appelflap do you manage now or are you still struggeling?

It isn't that hard with all these fancy visual kitchens you have now a days, it's just a mather of push the button and it brings the same results as someone who's cooking for many year. :rolleyes:

No Chefs are not innovating but improving.

A chef is playing with beta roms which are leaked on the internet trying to bring something less buggy

to the end user resulting you have some nicer stuff to play with on your device. :)

Not a boring stock :D

The less bugs it contains the more you enjoy.

I know Developers of applications/kitchens/tools are doing a great job too it's just a mather where you choose for and what you're best in don't you think? The longer you play the more you learn. :cool:

Do you think every application developer can cook a rom at same level as a rom chef with a couple of years experience?

And nope I don't take this personal Appelflap I hope you won't neither ;)

@Alex, coming back to your post later :)
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
Cooking is going great these days. Thanks for asking. :) But to be honest, i'm more excited about the new applications developed here (like, to give another example, LMT, which I think is a great innovation) than the new cooked or baked roms. I can switch without any problems to a "boring" stock rom, as long as all those great apps I have gathered together are running on it. I really don't care that much about a customized rom. I can live without it perfectly. And mainly this is because for the first time I have the feeling that I have a device (HD2) that doesn't need that much optimizations (speed-wise and memory-wise). Maybe here we have another reason why cooking is an obsolete profession ;) What do I care about 20 Mb more ram anyway with such a device and a 16Gb Storage card. What do I care about a little theme that will cost me 2 Mb Ram, and that I can get here anyway for free on xda-dev?

The time has arrived to ask what we can do next with all those great tools developed here. I foresee a future where every user here can create his or her own rom in a wink. Maybe by just by entering some parameters here on this site :D Can you imagine that? I do.... Enter your device-model, choose whether you want WM 6.5 or 6.5.x, which manila version and which tabs, which theme... hit "generate" and there you have your RUU_signed.nbh

Man, no problem. Let's get that project started so we are done with those chefs (LOL, kidding).
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
Hi _Alex_,

You can rip out all you want but the passion I put in these rom you will never rip out,

countless hours in trial and effort to achieve the perfect rom. ;)

The stock roms/leaked roms are provided and the kitchens are isn't?

So everyone can cook the same as I do. ;)

Do all Developers open up the source code for there application to the world?

You have facts?

I think the more support you give the more people appriciate and are willing to give you a donation for your hard work. ;)
[General Questions and Answers] Laurentius26:
Yes I can imagine that only a few people will controle this side by then but they can never go commercial

as they are playing with stuff from Microsoft, HTC etc. :D

But maybe by then this side will work together with those manufactures which means.... bye bye fun. ;):p

No more chefs testing/trying/cooking just a machine, push the button. :D

LoL, I think this will never happen as manufactures who are leaking roms

actualy need us to test there beta stuff.

Happy you :)
[General Questions and Answers] af974:
As im a young chef , i AGREE 100% with Laurentius here........cook its a lot easy with all these new visual kitchen nowdays even it isnt always so easy make a good and stable Rom.

My today word: " The car won't run without tyres....tyres are useless without car!!"........Developers need chefs as chefs needs developers, i dont see the point to start a kinda "war" eachothers...

Uhmmm...inequity in donation.....i have over 1000 downloads of my roms and got $ 25 ...well i had donate 30 to my kitchen developer:D.

I suggest to who say that cook is easy to check some new kitchen threads:)
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
O, such a project needs the best chefs. And guess what, maybe they can't be found because they are gone :p
[General Questions and Answers] ramdroid77:
Cooking isn't just as simple as clicking together bunch of modules you need. even if you have visual kitchen you still have to invest a lot of time and trial and error if you want to create a stable ROM. and with each new OS build or each new Manila package there might be new problems. I was playing around with my own ROM kitchen for a few months(!!) and just didn't manage to get a 100% stable ROM. So I rather focused on application development because that's where I'm really coming from.

But I think it's stupid to say that we don't need anymore ROM chefs. I just think it would be awesome if it weren't THAT MUCH chefs flaoting around. There's so many ROMs in each device section and you need to go through 2-3 pages to see them all. 5-10 different ROMs for each device are already more than you would ask for!

About custom ROMs being obsolete: This is bull****! It's probably becoming obsolete for WP7 (since I think it auto updates from MS anyway) but not for our good old WM devices!!! The HD2 might be a fine device but once a new interesting build from MS hits the streets or HTC improves Sense once more then you might want to have it on your HD2 as well.
[General Questions and Answers] Staxxthedan:
Good. I also have a Kaiser.

I totally agree. There's actually nothing top hide in these ROMs, Well for me atleast. LOL! We Rip anyway.LOL! Thats the Game Right, Rip MS, then Rip HTC, the Rip Cutom rom then MS rip XDA, HTC rip XDA, so on and on. Everyone is happy Ripping everyone :)

ROMs are cooked and provided. Kitchens are there and tweaks are there, but some people still just can't cook. I think the chef can never be put out of the picture, one way or the other. if you cook you know the hrs involved man....but at the same time developers I must admit are doing a great job and so are chefs...

100% agree. like myself I often laugh chefs releasing ROMs full of bugs all in the name of " I am the quickest to provide you with latest" and after all some have little or no difference with previously leaked versions only difference maybe more bugs introduced. but hey ego is the word right? trigger happy chefs releasing crap. and then they say well, my thread has the greatest posts! I am doing a great job>>well, well, it could also mean your thread has the greatest bugs, so many users complaining:D

No No No Sir! We are into this together. The sections are called XDevice Rom Development right. Programmer and chef. Part of the same cohesive unit. working together, tho I agree that programmers should get a fair share of donations too. Its like on a car manuafacturer so many cheap but important parts but someone assembles and sells and gets the Lion Share. If cooking is so easy, why not programer cook rom too and get away with proceeds of software development and Rom Assembly?

As indicated above We agree with you in this regard sir.
[General Questions and Answers] appelflap:
True, but that's not what i'm bulshitting about :D I said that I can imagine that the "profession" of chef is becoming obsolete. And maybe that is not caused directly by the fact that there are so many great tools around to create a rom nowadays, but indirectly because more and more people are calling themselves chefs today . So, the degeneration of this "profession" is maybe something that comes from within (in fact if I follow the discussion here on this site I see mostly a fight between chefs)

What I said was that I can foresee a future where users are creating their own custom rom by themselves, maybe (behind the scene) with the help of some great chefs and developers.
[General Questions and Answers] jagan2:
@cobbs: man its a developing community people here are not at ur service understand that what you are saying is if no xda no htc so its clear that u r taking xda as a free service no way!! here share develop submit ur ideas as ramman said.