yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
I understand how it works. I was showing that the N1 signal strength is stronger. I do not believe that there is a signal issue with the N1. I think everybody is full of crap and nobody has any way to prove it so they're going off of what they "remember" from another phone. Placing your hand over ANY antenna is going to kill some of the signal strength. Like I said I use my phone like normal and I have no problems. I text with BOTH hands on the bottom of the phone and there isn't any kind of "Holy sh*t" noticeable difference. I wouldn't even have noticed if you guys would have kept bring up the nonsense.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Thanks. I fixed it.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Oh haha, I totally misread your last line. I thought you said "I hope this is proof enough that the Nexus one has signal issues", combined with the "lower" comment. Sorry. :o

Can you check out the signal drops with hand covering the phone?

I think the "drop" will be larger on the N1 than on the MyTouch, which is where the problem lies for many people.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
N1 went from -73 to -87 [didn't even lose a bar]

MyTouch went from -89 to -101. [went from 3 bars to 2]

So we're looking at 14dbm loss on the N1, 12dbm loss on the MyTouch. Still nothing to complain about. If 2dbm is enough for somebody to not buy the phone or hate the phone or think that HTC has problems they you should stop buying cell phones. Nothing is perfect.
[Nexus One General] demo23019:
People complaining about google being silent about this "problem" need to look at the manual page 12
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Yeah, we've already posted this. The reason Google is being "Silent" is because they know everybody is full of crap. Nobody has a problem they just all think they do. I just proved that it's the same as the MyTouch. If I had my G1 I would do the same thing but I sold that about 2 months ago when I got my N1. [gave my wife my MyTouch and sold her G1].
[Nexus One General] hotweiss:
Hahaha, I have a MyTouch/Magic. No phone can have poorer reception than a Magic. I lived in an area that gave my Iphone no problems, or any other phone that is. Then I got my Magic, I couldn't even use the data because of the low signal strength. I am happy to see that the Nexus One that I just ordered will be a step up. Luckily I now live a couple hundred meters from a cell tower.
[Nexus One General] JanetPanic:
Enough; I am neither full of crap or stupid. You have proven absolutely nothing, any more than my experiments prove the reverse. What we have is anecdotal evidence pointing to opposite conclusions. dBm is a logarithmic scale, 14 is quite significant. The fact that the original signal was powerful does not change the fact that it was significantly blocked. the Magic (which lost a bar) was less effected than the N1.

I have made my arguments politely, systematically, and with respect to others opinion. I ask that you do the same.

Edit: cleared out most of my comment. I read your post as the N1 losing 2dBm, which would have been unlikely in the extreme. I suppose it might vary between builds and radio but in mine 81 dBm was the change point between 4 and 3 bars so your data for the N1 would have caused a drop in bars for me.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
First off, I never said the word "stupid". I posted one experiment. I am not the only person I know with a Nexus one and this isn't the only time I have tested this theory. If you read what I posted it says that the N1 lost 14dbm and the MyTouch lost 12dmb with placing my hand over the antenna. I know networking probably more than you and I understand the ratings of dmb. So since we're talking about a 2dbm difference between the Nexus One and the MyTouch the difference is minimal. Again, this happens with anything that uses an antenna. I'm pretty sure that I understand the basic knowledge of networking so the educational statements are unnecessary. I was simply proving that Nexus one DOES NOT have a "Poor signal strength" vs other devices and I posted one instance of my findings. Nothing that I have done in any situation has shown any significant details of the Nexus One having bad signal strength. Again, I can drive around Dallas county [Texas] with both the MyTouch and Nexus one and no difference in signal quality, either using the phone [covering the antenna I guess] or placing it on the dash of my car. We're all using the same network type and we all experience signal loss. Welcome to to cell phones. [It's a joke, I'm not insinuating that you just got a cell phone].

If everybody wants to sit and complain about their signal loss then go for it. The latest I recall, Google stated that they are done messing with it because there is nothing else to do. If you don't like your signal strength then either use WIFI or don't use a cell phone. The constant posts of "OMG MY SIGNAL SUCKS" is old and unnecessary. I have yet to see one person place two devices side by side and compare them as I have in my previous posts. Every time I read I ask the simple question, "What are you comparing your signal strength to?" and the response is always "I remember my X phone". Okay, first off, you shouldn't base your "findings" off of something that you remember from an old device. Think logically for one minute, that's not how simple troubleshooting works. I recall one comparison where there is a picture of a Nexus one next to a G1 with the Nexus one and the Nexus one was on Edge. This could have been anything. You can set "Use only 2G" to prove a point, The Nexus One could be using a service on a different band, etc. I am not here to lie to anybody or trail anybody along.
[Nexus One General] JanetPanic:
I posted a picture of my G1 and my N1 side by side and received the complaint that it was "one cell phone interfering with the other". So I created a data set comprising G1 and N1 both hand held and sitting in the same location without interference. So yes, there has been a side by side comparison where the N1 was found lacking. If you want to insist that the N1 does not have a problem that is your privilege. I will still contend however that the complaint did not come out of a "need to find something wrong" but out of a deficiency that was not present in this magnitude on previous devices.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Show me your G1 and N1 sitting side by side on the status screen showing the signal strength. I just find it funny that in every instance of physically seeing the N1 compared there hasn't been an issue. When I get on here I see nothing but complaints. I have seen multiple Nexus Ones that my friends and friends of friends own and none of us seem to have an issue.

Google admitted that there was an issue when the phone released and yes, I noticed it. Not only was the signal strength poor but my radio would drop all signal at random times. I would be sitting in the middle of a 3G coverage area and all of a sudden I would get the X over signal strength and lose service for about 30 seconds. After they released the ERE27 update, I haven't seen it one time.

So I guess I'm done arguing. Everybody is so adamant about having an issue even though I have seen physical evidence that there is not. Not only is it irritating but it puts the false image of the N1 all over the internet. I hear the question from other people "Oh you have a Nexus One? That sucks. Your signal strength blows". Then I have to sit and explain the ignorance behind his statement.
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
I have a G1, N1, and have had 2 BB's(8900 and 8110), a TyTNII and a Raphael... For me, the real test is my dad's house. Sits in a low spot on top of a hill... the house was a cook house back in the 1880's, so it has tin walls, with insulation and siding added over the tin sometime ago.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets good reception in that place. It is like the black hole of death... outside you get about 3 bars, if lucky. Inside, you have to be by a window or the door, and one special spot in the middle of the living.

That is, until I got the G1... I was able to get 0-2 bars anywhere in the house, including the bathroom. My N1 gets 1-3 bars everywhere in the house, and full bars outside. Next time I go by I will take a look at the dBm's and asu #'s. If bars mean anything, the N1 gets better reception than my G1.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Can you do the standalone/holding tests at your place? :)
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
Yeah, I am going to my dad's tonight, so I will do both when I go by... I will also do them at my place, where I get as low as 65 dBm with my N1. I am going to have to re-root the G1 and flash up to something newer than 1.0... a friend was going to buy the G1 and wanted stock, then backed out since he decided he wanted to stick with BB's.

I wish I still had all the other devices, since I would do the #'s on those as well.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
So this adds one to the people with real evidence. Hope to see your test results soon. I have yet to see real evidence showing signal issues. [real evidence by comparing it side by side with another android device on the same network]
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
Yeah, I will get the #'s tonight, I am willing to bet money my N1 gets better reception than my G1 based off the fact I get bars everywhere in my dad's house with the N1, and with the G1 only in the living... both of which are better than my BB's and my WM devices of the past.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
I still think the "3g issues" have to do with the signal drop when holding it in your hand.

When hand held, the G1 didn't drop at all, according to JanetPanic in post #21.

The MyTouch did, according to your earlier test. What I don't understand is why no one complained about that phone then...?? :confused:

(And I'm guessing MOST phones either put the antenna elsewhere and/or don't have this problem through some other means -- like the G1.)

Maybe people are just holding their N1's tighter for fear of dropping such an awesome phone? :)
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
What is funny, IMHO, is that the iPhone has it's antenna in the same place the N1 does... I am d/l the G1 service manual to see where it's located in that.

Edit: On the G1, looking at the screen, the phone antenna is in the upper left, the gps in the upper right. I also found some folk complaining about the G1 loosing signal when in call, because their hands would cover the antenna.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
It's because nobody pointed it out on the MyTouch. The second somebody pointed it out everybody immediately thought that they had a serious problem. The original issue wasn't even that big of a deal honestly. Since it was pointed out every tiny signal problem that has risen had to be posted on here complaining about how the N1 sucks with signal strength. It's the same way with every electronic device. If I tell you that a is better than b and my friend tells you that a is better than b you're going to look at the two with the mindset that a is better than b.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Did you get to do the tests?
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
I didn't get to at my dad's, didn't get to swing by my house before going over since I had to run an errand for work... I am doing it right now at home, though...
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
Sorry, no pics tonight, can't find the camera(I am pretty sure I know where it is, but don't feel like digging through boxes to get it right now)

I set both phones to 2G only (No 3G signal to test) Sitting at the same spot on my bed, and holding steady for at least 1 minute... I did a side by side, then switched their positions, then by themselves...

Best #'s for them:

The G1 is -77dBm and 18asu (by itself)

The N1 is -69dBm and 22asu (by itself)

Both bounce around a little bit, the best the G1 got to was -61dBm, the best the N1 got to was -63dBm... but the G1 made bigger jumps, so I think it doesn't measure as finely as the N1 does... seemed to jump at least 6dBm in it's readings, where as the N1 seemed to do it in 2's.

All in all, the N1 seems to do a little better, but not a lot.

I will try and get my camera dug out tomorrow, I have the day off from work, so a free evening! If I am feeling really adventurous, I will go by work and take pictures of the N1 next to the display phones, which will be a lot of different phones, from BB's to a Snap, and what not.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Good data.

Can you test with hand covering the antenna?

Sold my G1 last month, wish I would have tested beforehand :D
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
I did it with the hand covering the antenna, but that was pretty non-conclusive...

The G1 was rock solid, unless I really wrapped my hand tightly around the top(where the antenna is), it would drop 6-12dBm... holding it in a "normal" call fashion saw 0-6dBm drop.

The N1 was pretty good too, actually... picking it up off the bed and laying it in my hand, it actually got better signal (so did the G1)... I was able to get it to drop a bit, like the videos, if I wrapped my hand all the way around it would drop about 12-14 dBm... If I held it normally, there was very little to no drop, about 2-4dBm.

What this all means is that, IMEO, is that the N1 has at least as good reception as a G1, and while it does "lose" some signal when the antenna is interfered with, it isn't anywhere close to enough to be an issue unless you try to make one of it.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Lol, what I expected. One question...Where did all the whiners go? ;)
[Nexus One General] DMaverick50:
The majority of the time I use the market, after I scroll an app section for about 15-20 seconds I lose data signal. I press retry up to 10 times before restarting the phone. But when it happens I can use browser and I've tried moving my hand. Is this related to the 3g issue?
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Well, "The 3G issue" is what is in question here. Myself and pjcforpres have compared our Nexus One side by side with a G1 and MyTouch and we have shown that there is no 3G issue in either case. If you're having a problem with the market notify the person who developed your ROM. I don't have any issues with the Market or 3G.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
If you drop connection

ONLY

when you're using the Market (What the F??? :confused::confused::confused::confused:)

A) Your phone is seriously broken

B) You're hallucinating ;)
[Nexus One General] ram130:
It depends on how you are holding your phone and the strength of your current network. Thats my conclusion..

I discovered when I go outside I can hardly get the signal to drop from 3G. But when I'm inside it drops all the way down to 2 bars edge. I'm gonna do a video, you guys should do so also. Because all of us could be holding the phone differently. Let the video clear up a few things.

As shown here
[Nexus One General] bluehaze:
This has happened with every phone i've ever owned, including my iphone. It's because your on the edge of 3g coverage and you have a weak signal that's barely able to hold onto 3g so it drops down to 2g when gripping the phone. If your in an area with good signal strength this doesn't happen.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Ok, so the G1's antenna is at the top. This would explain why no one ever complained about this issue for the G1.

The MyTouch... Probably barely anyone has that phone xD

The question now becomes, when is the break point between 3G and 2G?

Is it *always* at a specific point, such as -90 dBm?

If so, covering the N1 loses about 14 dBm. So if you have 3G at -76 dBm or weaker, then covering the antenna WILL drop you into EDGE.

The question is, is it always the exact same dBm point that causes the switchover? If so, what is that point...
[Nexus One General] dan2011:
hi,

i have been experiencing 3g issues with this phone, i have had it for a week or 2 now. i live in australia, and have good 3g coverage in the area i live. i get about 2-3 bars around -93dbm singal. my phone tonight isnt getting any calls. i called it with my other phone and its not recieving, just goes straight to voicemail. i put my simcard in my old n95, and i get full signal strenght and my calls start to come in.. surely there has to be an issue with this fone. the fone sometimes works fine, has good reception, recieves calls. and then sometimes it just dosent have reception or the calls arent coming in even with reception, or messages fail to send. i love this fone its nice and all. but its shocking for a $650 fone. i cant even receive calls or rely on it.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Did you read any of the posts in this thread?...
[Nexus One General] pandabear:
Guys trust me it is the stupid T mobile that is causing you guys all the problems. I do not face a single problem when using it in a differnt country, under both 3G and 2G.
[Nexus One General] dan2011:
i have read a few. but tuned off to be honest. some people say its t mobile. but im in australia completely different network. and some people crap on about the covering of the bottom of the fone. thats just commom sense if you cover the bottom of the fone it will lose a bit of reception.

some people seem to have an issue. some dont. i do so thats why im posting giving my input mate.
[Nexus One General] cgaski:
I agree with your conclusions and get similar results to yours with my N1.

I suspect the reason that some people are reporting very much larger signal drops when the hand is wrapped round the phone is that the signal strength meter on the N1 is nonlinear. (After all it is a phone not a laboratory instrument).

Where the signal strength is around -60 to-70 dBm, (normal in most places here in Hong Kong), I get similar hand wrap signal reductions to the ones you report. If however I find somewhere where the indicated signal strength is around -90 dBm, (which is quite difficult), the hand wrap reduction in signal strength can be 15 or 20 dBm. (Of course as dBm is a logarithmic scale you would expect the reduction to be the same).

To echo your conclusion: the N1 like the vast majority of similar phones works fine where there is adequate signal strength as long as you are not determined to create an issue by smothering it with your hands…
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Try Factory Resetting your phone mate. :cool:
[Nexus One General] dan2011:
if i factory reset, are all my applications saved and backup somehow with google account??? or do i have to manual do it? i heard it auto syncs with your account.

i really hope a factory reset helps, cuz its shocking. i have another network simcard in the fone and signal strength is still poor. -99dmb to 107dbm, but calls are coming through. but i guess the call problem is intermittent so not a good test for that.

i just want this fone to work good. its a really nice fone.
[Nexus One General] spaceman_spliff:
I don't have many issues with regular 3G here in Nashville. Lately, HSDPA coverage has been popping popping up in areas across town. However, whenever I'm on HSDPA, it keeps switching back and forth to 3G. HSDPA often appears much slower than when I'm on 3G. I can't really tell whether the problem lies with the phone or T-Mobile's coverage.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
I just did a test and tried to record it outside but my camera was out of focus. Will try again tomorrow. But so far from the test I was on EDGE and getting -51dBm and for 3G -54dBm. As soon as I covered the bottom of the phone it went to -74dBm for EDGE and -78dBm for 3G. This was outside. When I'm inside its worst. I get -95dBm for 3G and when held at the bottom it goes to -0dBm. Keep in mind I have my phone set to WCDMA only, otherwise it would have switch to EDGE.

Anyway tomorrow night I will record a new video.

You will loose any SMS msgs u have and any call logs too. For contacts, apps and stuff on your sd card will be kept. After you factory reset your phone it should reinstall all your apps for you, bare in mind it WONT save the settings that were in those apps. Also make sure your phone is set to automatically backup your settings by going Setting > Privacy Settings > Back up my settings ..if its not checked then don't expect your apps to be backed up..:D
[Nexus One General] dan2011:
well i did the factor reset.. didnt really help.

signal is in the -90s and early -100s 2-3 bars reception. sometimes the call goes through. sometimes it dosent go through. plug the n95. calls always go through..

bit frustating. maybe this fone is just more sensitve to 3g reception then others.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
I would try another reset, then pull the battery for 1min and put it back in. Also have you tried using it on the EDGE network to see if you get calls and great signal?

You can also try calling your cell provider and have them reset your connection to their network then restart the phone.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
I performed the same task as the guy in the youtube video on both the MyTouch and the Nexus One earlier in the thread. The Nexus One lost 14dbm and the MyTouch lost 12dbm.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Wait what? No it won't...?
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Yes it does. Google stores all of your app data on their servers now. Factory resetting reinstalls all of your apps, settings, etc. unless you have it disabled in the menu.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Even on rooted / Desire Rom?
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Idk about Desire but mine has every time, rooted and not rooted. I've used Cyanogens and Enomthers.
[Nexus One General] Devastatin:
BTW, with this pic I noticed you don't have your number on the N1. I thought there was something wrong with my phone so HTC helped me fix it. So, if you want your phone number to show up on your N1 (stock of course, don't know if other roms have this).

Boot the phone into safe mode.

go to the phone application

type in

#NUM# and dial.

Your number should be populated now.

Just a tidbit, worked for me..

:D
[Nexus One General] dan2011:
when i switch it to 2g mode, the signal loss is about -70dbm, calls do come through better. but i really want to use my fone as a 3g fone since every fone iv had works..

what does resetting it on the network side do if it works in another handset???

what do they actually reset?

and jsut for everyones info, your applications are backed up. so it reinstalls them. only think you loose are your shortcuts and you have to resink your accounts
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Wow you got a much better EDGE network signal by far. Though for me on 3G, getting -101dBm and still get calls, not only that but never got a drop call. When outside I get -51dBm. The problem seem be with your device. Though I can't be sure

since you said it works real good sometimes. I believe your n95 works on 3G as well with good signal?

For the network reset; what it will do is disconnect you from the towers around you and make your phone connect fresh with a new address and hopefully better signal. For me it help when I was only getting 500kbps speeds in my apartment, after the reset I started getting upto 3000kbps down and 1.3mbps up. So try that. When they do the reset turn off the phone for 30sec with the battery pulled. Otherwise I'm out of ideas but to say you got a defective device and should have HTC swap it for you. Anyone care to chime in?
[Nexus One General] dan2011:
well i called my carrier today and had a whinge just to see if its \ carrier issues. they said try search for networks then select a different network. let it reject. then select correct network and power off the device.. i guess this would be similar to a network reset ???

signal is still around the saem 90s and 100s. i have my fone beside me in my room now before i wasnt able to receive calls. did a powercyle, now it seems ok.

i think its a bit of both, network and phone. but when the calls dont come through its usually around -101dbm

only problem with sending it back is im in australia and have to ship overseas etc..