yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] cp_kirkley:
I missed this post.

First off, the only "Ass"umptions, as you so eloquently put it, are the assumptions made by you that based on your personal experience, the iPhone crack problem is nonexistent. You could not be further from the truth. I had both an iPhone 3G and 3G S before I had had enough, both had the same issues. What burned my ass even more was that 2 different generations of 2400 dollar Macbook Pros had horrible GPU problems going on at around the same time. Do not even get me started on Apple track record when it comes to their quality assurance. They are no better than dell, maybe even worse considering the issues to market footprint ratio.

Satisfied customers don't complain, true statement. But you have totally ignored the segment of casual users that have issues and either dont care enough or or inexperienced enough to find online mediums to vent their frustrations. Not everyone wielding the all powerful iphone is as 1337hax as you.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
Ah ha...that is how this is biased....you have prior experience with Apple products. Nothing wrong with that, except that I am not an apple user and hence could not agree upon a blanket statement. You, on the other hand, used the information on the web to reinforce your convictions/experience.

Hence your views are a bit colored. I can understand that.

The apple products I have are the 3g/3gs/itouch for my family and Therefore speak only about the experience with that family of products.

I knowingly left that part out. I am happy that you caught that aspect of my explanation that I did not provide. :)

So all said and done between Happy customers, unhappy customers, and customers who don't give a flying fk about complaining(they just stop using the product) you will agree that the information on the web, on its own, is hardly the perfect source of determining the spread of the problem.

Happy discussions!
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
You guys are missing the point.

First of all, the amount of complaints on the web clearly proves that this is a widespread issue. Especially with so many people that had their phones exchanged several times and always saw the issue again.

But production faults can happen, they happen to every company.

The really important thing here is that Apple deliberately used the exact same, bad materials again, despite the issues and even a lawsuit against them because of those issues.

The also deleted a huge thread on their support forum about the problem.

And whether you believe that the problem exists or not (actually, you must be really ignorant not to believe it), it's a fact that the materials used for the iPhone are bad. You don't have to be an expert in materials science to know which phone is high quality, and which one is not, when you hold both an iPhone and an HD2 in your hands.

Anyway, I wonder why this even needs to be discussed. The facts are so obvious, there's no many evidence, that only the most stupid among Apple fanboys would deny those issues and even claim that the iPhone could compete with newer HTC phones in terms of quality.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Right, only the most retarded fanboys still deny the problems after all the evidence. It's striking how ignorant those people can be.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
I have finally had the chance to hold the glorious HD2 in my own hands..Thanks Tmobile USA. Great Phone. But I don't think I can say it knocks the socks off of the iphone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
like yourself? you on the same hand (not the other hand) are failing to recognize that I have 4 iphone products in my family.

1 3g

1 3gs

1 touch 2g

1 touch 3g

None of them have cracks.

What does that tell me?

I was fking lucky. I guess.

If I am that lucky, maybe I should call Carla Bruni-Sarkozy and she would give me blowjob too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Well, if you're a retard, that tells you that there are no issues.

If you're not a retard, it tells you that you were lucky. ;)

Let's do some simple maths, you'll understand it if you're not a retard: Let's say 10% of all iPhones show cracks, which is a very high number (since bad materials don't necessarily lead to visible cracks). That means, since you have three iPhones (2g doesn't count), the probability of getting three "good" ones, was 0.9^3=73%.

Actually, you weren't that lucky... you see, even a failure rate of 10%, that definitely proves that the materials are crap, leaves a pretty good chance of getting three "good" devices.

(I put the "good" in "", because even if it doesn't develop cracks, the materials are still bad)
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
You have less then 200 post and in half of them you are calling someone stupid.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
I didn't call him stupid. I said he would be stupid if "..." and that's true.

You really seem to be stupid, though. Either that or you're deliberately twisting other people's words.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
#1 People who love their product (be it a car, phone, etc) tend to find more problems with their products because they get attached to it emotionally and cannot stand to find a defect. How can it have a defect? I love it. No! They are so disappointed that they start plastering all the discussion boards with their hate. Same as when an ex-husband starts posting all the dirty pictures of his ex-wife when she ditches him for somebody he thinks is inferior to him.

The possibilities are endless of why you see so many posts about the cracks.

One of the reasons being that materials are definitely bad. You seem to stick to that one and only reason.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
You just made my day. :D

No, really.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
I had to try hard.....and keep the post the way it came out.:D
[Windows Phone 7 General] gullum:
operantly I have a problem understanding what you type the way you want it to sound.

I would have said that it would be a stupid conclusion if he said there are no issues. a stupid decision, conclusion or act does not make someone retard. we all do that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
If that sounds better to you... just imagine I said that, it's true as well.
[Windows Phone 7 General] cp_kirkley:
I stick to that reason not because it's convenient, I stick to to it because it is true. Are you still trying to say that the issue does not exist?

Also, my previous issues with MBP's were brought up not to bring context to my personal situation, but to bring proper context to the contention that its only iPhones that are suffering from bad manufacturing. There are hundreds of thousands MBP owners out there with either the x1600 problem, or the 8600gt problem, or the fan control sensor problem, or the...

My point is that people need to stop trying to pretend that apple is a company which designs flawless pieces of technology meant to stand the test of time. After you see that, it will be easier for a person such as yourself, who apparently has never had a problem with an apple device, to see that your situation is far, far, far, far, far more uncommon than ours.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
After his last post, do you really still think further debating makes any sense?
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
Nobody said that Apple products have ZERO defects. But the hoopla is so much so that any potential iphone buyer will basically not even go to the iphone store.

If what you say is true (oh wow!) then you better explain to me how the iphone has managed to grab market share from every fking smartphone company in the world.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
It's called "human stupidity", "peer pressure" and "market exposure".
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
Heh, seems the HD2's having hairline crack issues as well:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=656095
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
lol, yeah, sure, hairline cracks... :D

Those lines are by design, every HD2 has four of them. They're seals, not cracks. ;)

Funny how passionate you Apple apologists are defending "your" company. Funny and pathetic at the same time.

But there's nothing to defend here. The iPhone is made of cheap materials, period. Get over it. At least I see you're finally admitting that it does get hairline cracks. Wow! But even that should never have been at issue...
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
That is incorrect-- they are not there by design. Take a look at any new HD2, and you'll find they're not there. My HD2 has no such cracks (at least not yet).

Even if they are the body's seals, as some have suggested, they should not be opening.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
They're not opening.

And they're there on every HD2, four of them (at least on every European one, don't know whether the TMO US one is different), it's just hard to see them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
A small number of iPhones did experience hairline cracks. Almost every single HTC model to date has experienced significant cosmetic issues (paint flaking, easy body scratching/gouging, slider streaks/scratches) and and much more significant non-cosmetic issues (easily torn resistive membranes, loose/broken slider mechanisms, Newton's Rings in screen (even in HD2)).

I don't see how you're demonstrating that HTC produces higher-quality hardware than Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
They are opening-- notice some people have one, some have three, some have four.

The T-Mobile US version has a different body-- its dimensions are slightly off from the European version.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Whatever you want to believe... as I said, you're funny and pathetic at the same time.

Anyway, the HD2 has no cracks and the number of iPhones that have cracks in not small. And 100% of 3G/3GS iPhones are made of cheap materials. Those are the facts that anyone who is not a brainwashed fanboy understands. The evidence couldn't be any clearer, it's a shame that this even has to be discussed.

It's like a social experiment... how much evidence do you have to give a brainwashed Apple fanboy to get him back into reality? Is it even possible?

I think we can conclude: It's not possible. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
There's point discussing anything if you refuse to use basic logic. Your "argument" entails repeating the same thing over and over, and then if anyone brings in facts contrary to your view, you revert to name-calling. I hope you realize your "argument" goes nowhere that way.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Oh come on... read a few pages, there's so much logic and evidence. It's just you brainwashed fanboys can't (or don't want to) understand it.

By the way, nobody said HTC products are flawless. But

1) there's a difference between "issues caused by the use of cheap materials" and "manufacturing faults" (that happen from time to time, to every company)

2) it's bold to use the same, cheap materials again when there are known issues

(and it's a fact that the materials are cheap and there are issues caused by the use of cheap materials, whether you accept it or not)

*/ end experiment here, it can now be safely concluded fanboys are not willing or able to accept evidenced facts and understand basic logic */
[Windows Phone 7 General] gogol:
Are you retarded or what?

How do you know "small numbers" vs "every single HTC model"?

Do you even know the condition of my HTC phone?

Or the HTC phone that I have not purchased yet?

Or have all iPhone users reported to you that they dont have cracks or flakky paint or dust or broken this broken that?

Gosh! Such a typical Apple Mactard iPhone fantrollboy ...

Both Apple iPhone and HTC phones may have the same problems, cracks, hairline cracks, flakky paint, what not ... so stop telling that your phone has better build quality than others. Because that does not make sense, see all the evidences. Or yeah, you just such a supertardtroll that knows every god damn fk phone build quality in the world and have counted all of them to make stupid lie.
[Windows Phone 7 General] C:Sharp!:
Don't feed the trolls.

It's obvious that they can't or don't want to accept the facts.

Just let them live in their small worlds. The normal people who read the thread have enough evidence now, they will be able to distinguish between evidenced facts and Apple fanboy jabbering.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rorytmeadows:
You won't look like a douche
[Windows Phone 7 General] bunu:
+1 sooo true.

Sent from my Nithin Jino's Phone using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
OOOoooooo.....Now I am scared...

If I am living in the un-real world, people are going to laugh at me because I actually am giving the benefit of doubt to apple since there is no demonstrated statistical exercise that indicates that iphone build quality is poorer than HTC. No Wait. That is not what we are trying to prove. iphone build quality is bad. that's all we are trying to prove and I have to believe it.

Now HTC probably could be the ****tiest (idk), but who cares???
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
Now Mr. Materials Expert, if you so godamm well know that iphone material is cheap, can you tell what exactly is that cheap material(name, scientific name, formulation, etc) that apple keeps on reusing?
[Windows Phone 7 General] DarkDvr:
Answer: None.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IRIE4IPIER:
the HD2 has better physical specs than the iphone, but that is where it stops. the iphone wins in every other catagory. the only phone that is 100% better than the iphone is the nexus one. I played with the HD2 in a tmobile store and it seemed unresponsive @ times.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
You were playing with a display unit? It might have had 20 apps open.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spike15:
Remember, to the fanboys that's a disadvantage: They want the phone to hold your hand. I think even Android does this to an extent, automatically killing apps you may have wanted open just because it thought it needed the system resources.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Windows Mobile is supposed to shut down apps when system resources are tight but sometime apps just won't do that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It only works for apps that have windows and doesn't affect service-like GUIless background applications. The second thing is that in WM it's up to OEMs to define how much memory counts as low memory and when the OOM routine will be called. When it's called, the least recently used program gets a request to free up memory, if it doesn't comply it will be asked to shut down gracefully. If it doesn't it will be brutally terminated. There's absolutely nothing a program can do to not comply with this.

Not that it matters for HD2 though - it has a fairly high threshold and tons of memory. What could cause slowdowns is something working in background and consuming lots of CPU cycles. If, of course, the whole story about experiencing lags in the store is true.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
goofball...even winmo6.5 does it, does it quite bad.

It kills apps with no ability to restore to last state.

iphone +1
[Windows Phone 7 General] chiks19018:
There exactly lies the REAL problem my friend.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Any followups on what the "cheap" material presumably is???
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Actually, the application has the opportunity to save state in WM more than once. First, the application knows when it is no longer the foreground one. Later, before it is terminated in low memory conditions, it gets two warnings. The problem with WM, as usual, is not the OS itself so much as the policies which leave everything up to the developer and there is no enforcement.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Jamoflaw:
I have used 2 different WM phones over the years. I now have a touch hd which was described as a iPhone 'killer'.

All WM phones are sooooo slow and ugly compared to the iPhone I challenge someone to find one that isn't. I was excited about WM7 but now i am very dissapointed and will be moving to android a platform which allows multitasking and all the features of WM with a better interface, looks good and just works!
[Windows Phone 7 General] cp_kirkley:
Play with an HD2 and eat those words.

Never had a phone faster than this in terms of raw computing power. While the iphone UI is visually smoother, it lacks things that I have on the HD2 which now would be a deal breaker if my next phone does not have. And now I look at the iphones screen and giggle.

HD's were pretty nice, but you're right, they are slow. HD2s are leaps and bounds ahead as far as the interface speed is concerned.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amb9800:
The HD2 has the same exact problems as previous WM phones-- to a slightly lesser degree, perhaps, but all the same problems. My TP2 would literally freeze for minutes on end sometimes, whereas the HD2 generally freezes for less time.

It's not the lack of smoothness that bugs people most about WM-- it's the unpredictability, inconsistent performance, and random lockups or bugs.

Earlier today, for example, I was walking around with a friend and we decided to look for a restaurant-- my HD2's data connection randomly dropped and wouldn't work (neither EDGE nor 3G, with full reception), then I soft-reset it, and the Data Connection slider was grayed out entirely. It was hopeless, so I had to ask her to pull out her iPhone 3GS to check (which took all of 10 seconds to get the info).

A few minutes later the HD2 was working fine again, but by that time it was useless. Sometimes the phone doesn't respond to touch (e.g. stuck at lock screen or the call slider freezes), often it gives errors while trying to check email, and sometimes it gives errors when trying to send text messages. It often also sometimes doesn't resume from sleep (the Black Screen of Death), which is a common HD2 issue (present even on stock ROMs like T-Mo's).

WM feels a lot like a highly patched up version of Windows 3.1. Sure, networking support, internet browsers, video playback, and more could be added to Win 3.1, and you could have a pretty powerful platform (with down-to-the-metal control for apps) but the end result was a highly unstable, inconsistent experience. And no amount of brute force processing power would fix that, just as even Snapdragon doesn't give WM a consistent user experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Guys...

First of all, this is not Windows Mobile vs. iPhone, but Windows Phone vs. iPhone.

Second, that discussion iPhone vs. HD2 is utter useless, because the Nexus One beats the hell out of both of them.

It's the HD2's hardware with the iPhone's smoothness and reliability and Windows Mobile's unlimited possibilities. It beats them all hands down.

It does everything that Windows Mobile does, or rather, what Windows Mobile should do, cause on Android, things just work. Yes, Windows Mobile can also multitask, it also has Voice Command, it's also customizable and so on - but the difference is, on Android, all those things work reliably, on Windows Mobile, they do not.

(and on the iPhone, lots of them are not there at all, while the remaining features are also reliable)

It's like the combination of Windows Mobile and iPhone, or, in other words, Windows Mobile done right.

(and we all know how much better Windows Mobile would be than the iPhone, if it were reliable - well, Android is just that)

And since Windows Mobile is now dead and neither the current iPhone nor the HD2 are worth buying, you can now stop talking about the present and start talking about the future, which is Windows Phone vs. iPhone (and both vs. Android, but that's not the topic of this thread).
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
And therefore you decide to preach for Android. Brilliant.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Yep. To underline why the HD2 vs. iPhone discussion is useless. Cause they're both not worth buying right now. Thus, you should rather talk about the future.

(which is what this thread was intended for!)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
You are all wrong! :D

1. It should be able to run multiple apps (thus, iPhone does NOT get +1 - for now).

2. It should not slow down when doing so.

3. Both Android and Windows Mobile shut down apps, when they run out of resources, and on both it's possible to save the state. Also, on both, apps can run as services, so that apps that the user wants to be running are not shut down.

However, apps on Android in general are programmed to do save their state, on Windows Mobile, they're not. That's why the whole concept works better on Android, and that's the whole difference, simply put.

(it's always the same: Android does the same things Windows Mobile does, but they work reliably on Android, whereas on Windows Mobile, they don't - like I said, Android is "Windows Mobile done right")

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say, in order to clear up some false assumptions. Now it's time to really focus on the topic.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
I've used andriod and I just don't like it as much as WM so I really don't agree that it's WM done right.

As far as the apps go, you can't punish the OS for not shutting down apps properly when the developers are the ones not programming for it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Yes, you can. It's solely Microsoft's fault, because they haven't supplied better development tools for years. They've made this just too hard for developers to do, just like they've made it too hard for developers to design finger-friendly apps.

Whether you agree or not, since I've been a WM user for years, I will not change my opinion on Android. It's "WM done right".

That's because it has every feature that WM has, but every single feature just works better on Android. First of all, there's of course reliability. But it also translates into a lot of things.

E.g. Voice Command: Microsoft have had it for years, but not updated at all. Thus, it causes lots of issues (like the "sleep of death"), whereas there are voice command apps on Android that simply work (and do even more).

Or the search feature. Again, Microsoft have had it for years, but on Android, it works, whereas on WM, it's mostly useless.

And of course, all the basic things, like the calendar, the mail inbox etc., where on WM, you're torn between the outdated, but powerful WM apps and the nicer, but lacking HTC replacements.

Or another thing that I like doing, is playing SNES games. Yes, you can also do that on WM, but on Android, it simply works better.

And of course all the third party apps. Yes, you can get an app for just about everything on WM, but all the equivalent apps on Android are just nicer, easier to use and often more powerful.

You can go on and on like this.

Yes, you can do everything on WM that you can do on Android. But everything you can do on Android simply works better, there.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
Well they will be making up for that with this release. Of course they are pretty much taking multitasking with 3rd party apps out completely but hey that's one way to solve the issue! And there dev tools for WP7 are the best I've seen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
So... supplying better dev tools means you must remove multitasking and put restrictions in place?

Nonsense. :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Kloc:
I think they are really trying to put out a very stable OS. I don't think they plan on keep multitasking out forever. They are probably trying to find the best way to implement it. I believe they will probably come up with something that requires approval for multitasking in the future. Of coarse there is still all the other restrictions in place that I don't really like. No FS access kind of bums me out but I'll see when I get a device whether or not I continue with them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sethos II:
Well, Android has been 100% stable for me so far. Thus, I say "no, thanks" to restrictions.

By the way, it's 2.5 hours left until the iPhone OS 4 event. If they really allow multitasking, that will be highly embarrassing for Microsoft. :D