yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch CDMA Android Development] KralHiPolymer:
Well, everytime I try to install the drivers, it comes up with error 37, and microsoft says just keep on trying again and again until it works which is probably unlikely since I've tried it about 10 times already.

btw Jamezelle cokeman 0.41 caused all the trouble and cokeman 2.31 fixed the problem and how much longer will it be until you can make your SenseHero build norootfs?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] pir2:
androidinstall.tar is just a single packaged file of everything that gets installed

All done on your PC:

1) unpackage/unzip it on your computer w/ 7zip or your compression favorite app

2) navigate to "system\app"

3) drag whatever apk's you want to have installed in there

4) using 7zip, make a tar file and name it androidinstall.tar

The above process can also be used with the androidupdate.tar file
[Touch CDMA Android Development] polyrhythmic:
androidinstall.tar and androidupdate.tar must have the same directory structure and file locations as the Android build you are trying to update/install or bad things may happen.
[Touch CDMA Android Development] kiwilime:
Is it possible to use jamezelle's sensehero build, and then make an androidupdate file with astro in it to get astro and the calendar (without using adb)
[Touch CDMA Android Development] jamezelle:
i cannot update my builds at the moment to use the nomorootfs as i have no vogue but i have asked mssmison to update it to work with the nomorootfs when he gets a vogue:o im sorry i cannot do much at the moment:(
[Touch CDMA Android Development] KralHiPolymer:
Does anyone know if the calendar in vilord's tattoo requires an associated Google account?
[Touch CDMA Android Development] egzthunder1:
I don't know about vilord's, but myn's Donut does :( (although, you can always export it and then import it via some app from marketplace.)
[Touch CDMA Android Development] KralHiPolymer:
I finally got adb to work!:D

Thanks for everyone's help!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] swamp2:
Anyone know if there is any way to make the default for new contacts (those entered in the phone directly) to display them as First, Last. The default now is Last, First. I am not asking about sorting, synching nor Outlook on your desktop computer. Thanks much.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Mesquire:
Don't think the default order is ever changeable, but you can always resave the entry one by one by editing the "File As" field or do it in bulk:

http://www.shubaroo.com/index.php?module=contact
[Hero CDMA Accessories] ricersniper:
im looking for a workout arm band for my cdma hero. all i have found is generic ones or ones for icrap. any help or suggestion would be appreciated.
[Hero CDMA Accessories] rockcrawler:
+1

Searched Google for an hour last week and came up with nothing.

Hoping someone had better luck ! :D
[Hero CDMA Accessories] theresthatguy:
i got this for you
[Hero CDMA Accessories] ricersniper:
i hate myself but i found and bought one at wal-mart. it was 17 bucks. i had tried all the sporting goods and work out equipment places and nothing. finaly, as were are leaving the last place someone says check wal-mart they have them. i feel so dirty!!
[Hero CDMA Accessories] ramiss:
I found a pretty good one at Big 5 Sporting Goods
[Hero CDMA Accessories] ldc2335:
i got a silicone case off ebay and cut two slits in the back and fed a armband through. works good.

then, you can also wear it backwards with the speaker facing out if you dont wanna deal with headphones.

i bet you could also do it with one of those flexi cases off daydeal.com
[Hero CDMA Accessories] riggsandroid:
I have this one

Works well, fits even with the silicone gel glove on. Also can easily use the screen while in the armband.

Hope that helps someone.
[Hero CDMA Accessories] QuiQNeZZ:
Yep, I have the exact same one. I had bought it for my old mogul and it worked fine. Didn't think I could be able to use the touch screen on the Hero but it reads my finger fine. Although the plastic had been stretched a little from the mogul and so it's a little loose inside but doesn't fall out or anything. Be sure to get the right size for your arm. I got the larger one since i've always had issues with armbands fitting my 24inch pythons. =)
[Hero CDMA Accessories] riggsandroid:
lol, you monster! are those registered?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] LJKelley:
I'm opening a new thread so people don't have to dig thru other threads to find this.

Leaked documents show that Windows Phone 7 will indeed have multitasking after approval by Microsoft. Appearently you will need to ask Microsoft for special permission, and as such you will need to prove your need for multitasking. I'm sure it will be limited to apps such as Pandora that show a specific need for running in the background.

http://www.wmexperts.com/leak-windows-phone-7-documents-developers
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Ren13B:
Thanks for posting this. It looks like I need to start learning silverlight which I expected would be the case.

The multitasking is annoying. I dont want to have to ask for permission to enable this. Do they plan on controlling this through the app store? If its just some hidden API's they would get leaked in minutes and everyone could use them.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] alexsql:
Weird interpretation

From the leaked documents provided, I cannot figure out how did they come to the conclusion that developers would need to ask for permission to do multitasking. It seems that the authors of the article are not really technical and had things mixed up. OEMs and MOs will have to request access to some native APIs if Managed API and provided limited native API set is not enough for their needs, which is something totally different from processes and threads. Processes and threads, or in layman terms multitasking is business as usual. I don't see any restrictions there.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.

The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.

There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Fred23:
Did anybody read the document? There's no connection between multitasking and approval. It's not going to be done with hidden APIs that can get leaked. It's not completely clear but here's what it seems to say to me:

Anyone can write C#/Silverlight apps that use the .NET Compact Framework and install them. Hopefully this will let you do most things you want to do. The big problem would be if .NET CF 4 is missing any of the "normal" useful stuff. Personally, if I can interact with calls, texts, contacts, location services (e.g. GPS) and the internet then I'm happy.

If you want to write unmanaged (i.e. C++) code or call some extra managed APIs you'll need to get the code signed. This will probably go through a similar process to Apple's app store. This should only be required for low level stuff - drivers, etc. The wording of the doc suggests that it would only be phone carriers that are likely to be using this.

Multitasking isn't mentioned, so it's only guesswork between now and MIX10.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
That's not how multitasking on Android works. Android applications save their state when they are sent to the background, but they continue to run. They are not suspended, unless the system runs out of RAM.

If the system runs out of RAM, then the "oldest" process that's running in the background gets killed. Since it saved its state when it was sent to the background, you can reopen it and continue where you left off.

That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
No, it is not at all the same. Read my post again.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] young blade:
guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone..

http://www.wmexperts.com/wme-mwc-video-hands-no-2-windows-phone-7-series?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wmexperts+(WMExperts)&utm_content=Twitter
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] anaadoul:
may i ask for this thread to list facts only?

i would love this thread not to be dragged into the debate of hints and speculations. I would say, as long as we don't have something solid let's keep the speculations at the other thread.

i have seen some videos where by mistake shows multi tasking cappabilites, and i believe as long as the cappability is there (even if locked down) we can find a way around it. but we are still in the dark, maybe Microsoft will simply say that hey developers, yes we have full multitasking but not for .net cf apps, only unmanaged code can? maybe! just to ensure that not anyone can write an app to stay in the background.

Mostly the usage of multitasking is not that high, i don't keep much apps in memory. infact alot of the users of Windows Mobile (5, 6.x.x) do set their phones to close the app on X click. and most of us (including me) didn't want to run multiple apps in the background, actually that's why HTC built the Taskmanager into their ROMS. even SonyEricsson.

Of course there are exceptions for that, i would love for my Navigation app to stay in the background while my friend is playing on the phone.

the main point is we don't have any clue yet, if we get any info that is official/confirmed leak then we can get either UPSET or releafed :)

take it easy mates.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] pilgrim011:
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.:rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] young blade:
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.

I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..

thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] pilgrim011:
Don't be so sure. Unfortunately, Microsoft is heading Apple's path, the dark side...:(
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Kloc:
Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing. I have to pull the task manager up to close every app after I open it because I don't really need it in the background. For example when I use a calculator to compute something why does it need to stay up after I'm done with the calculation?

On the otherhand, If they are making it so you have to get direct permission from Microsoft and not just from the OS to run in the background that probably means they want some more money or something outta the deal and I don't think thats the best way to go. Phone these days usually have a good amount of ram to be able to run task in the background and they shouldn't underpower the device if it can handle it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] arag0n85:
I don't think that iPhone is the way to the dark side.... they are able to make "dumb users" (I don't think you are dumb, it's a way to put it into), a way to make what they want with their device. As a higher user, you know how to manage properly a system unmanaged because you know to play properly with the system, resources, and more over, but some people just has problems knowing how to open a file...

Really, the iPhone way is bring the IT technologies to people that not usually knows or likes the IT, and use them because they must, or they like the services but not the tech itself.

I belive that maybe WP7S has become so iPhone, and we may want to drop it, but really, the human history has ever been the same. It's not about how good or how many features has a device/technology/thing, it's about how many people use it in daily life. Try to think about a space travel agency, the people will believe in space travels once people become able to go to the moon by themselves, not because the NASA did it. And no matter that NASA was able to take a "car" for the astronauts and an space agency only can bring you an your package, it just doesn't matter.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] wreiad:
Yes, it will indeed multitask for the native apps at least. In the presentation, Joe goes to a maps app, then goes right back to the calendar app where he was. Looks like the iPhone push stuff.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
yes, not all apps require to be able to run in the background. things like calculator for example, i hate killing it using task manager.

things like sending sms or email, when I hit the send button and close the gui, the msg should be sent to the background service and really close remove the gui interface from the memory. i hate killing tmail.exe.

and there are a lot more examples why current winmo multitasking is not right. tweaks required just to be able to completely close app like htc album, opera, etc.

i am glad that finally microsoft will address this seriously. i am not surprise that ability to run in the background will be controlled by them. it is still better being controlled rather than not allowed at all (like Apple iPhone?).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] seed_al:
Careful, careful....!!

You don't know HOW they're going to adress the issue. If they completely forbid multitasking, like Apple, then things will get a LOT WORSE than they are now.

I agree that not every application has to run in the background. But some MUST run in the background and it would be a huge failure if they didn't allow third party developers to use multitasking at all, like Apple.

Multitasking for each and every application, like on WM6.5, is still a lot better than no multitasking at all!!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] anaadoul:
imagine this, we have services like on Desktop Windows and these can run in the background, the GUI however cannot run in the background so when you need to configure your application or do xyz you launch the GUI and it will communicate with the service in a way or another once not needed anymore, it will be closed and the service will continue what it has to do :)

See, too many scenarios!

MIX10 here we come :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
That's what I'm guessing. And all those threads will be forced to "low priority" to ensure that the OS and GUI apps (running at higher priority) are responsive. At least that's how I'd do it if I were designing a mobile OS.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
+1 but I dont know if it will be money rather then control. Maybe this way they wont get complaints from regular users that there device is too slow when they have 6 apps running in the background.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Why doesn't somebody actually come out with a list of current applications that "should" be allowed to truly multitask and submit it to microsoft for their consideration? I personally would love to see that list too and also see the variations between the needs of every user out here. For me, the following programs:

1. Phone + contacts lookup

2. Zune music player

3. Camera

4. Web browser

5. GPS navigation

6. Notepad for taking notes while on the phone

7. Email

Games explicity not to be multitasked. It should hibernate or pause during a phone call.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Add IM to your list.

Also, why are you talking about "Zune music player"? Any music player should be able to work in background.

How do you want notepad and camera to work in background?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] TheGoD:
And other music players, IM's, stuff to track system data, gps and g-sensor tracker, games and software that needs an active data connection, audio recorder, augmented reality apps and of course just stuff I don't want to wait to start every few minutes like big apps.

Regarding usability, I can handle multiple apps easily on my phone. I just use one hardware key for switching to the homescreen, starting a taskswitcher, and closing the current app each.

And from a technical view, what's the point in having a device with +200 MB free ram when u are only allowed to use <50 MB effectively?

Lets face it, limited multitasking just means less freedom for developers and longer or more loading for the end user.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] giggles33:
multi-tasking sounds good!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Camera to be invoked while I am on a call or listening to music....

Zune..because it is MS and it is cool. I have the zune hd and like it a lot.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Not really. My ATT Pure is always out of breath if I have google maps and opera running at the same time. If I add youtube to it, it is crawling.

secondly, app loading times suffer because the processor is busy with another job. Take it away and each app will load "superfast" and get work down superfast too, limiting, if not eliminating the need of multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
That's complete nonsense.

1. If an application demands processing time, then it has a reason to do so. Thus, there's a reason for it to run in the background, which means multitasking is a benefit.

2. If an applications idles in the background, then it doesn't influence loading times at all. Plus you don't have to load that application next time you use it, cause it's already running, which, again, means multitasking is a benefit.

3. We're not talking about ultra slow, crappy QCOM MSM chipsets here, like the one in your old Pure, but about ARM Cortex chipsets with four times the processing power.

4. We're also talking about devices with a minimum of 512MB RAM. There's no reason to leave that unused.

Stop acting like there was any excuse for no multitasking. There is none.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
hey you are back...i thought you were going to stop responding to my posts:D Hard to resist. I know that:D

While your intentions of having multitasking are noble, there is a gradual path to get there.

My best example comes from the car industry where cars were stick-shift and nobody wanted automatic. Then automatics started doing better and better and now nearly nobody wants stick shifts. Even the engineers who design the performance cars will not provide stick shifts because the automatics are way better, more reliable and shift faster than the human can. But they still provide a "paddle-shifter" for those who want to shift gears themselves, in some extreme cases or just for fun.

Same is the case here. You are looking for controlling multitasking on your own. I present the case where the OS will control what gets multi-tasked and what will be paused/terminated/hibernated. The user will not have a say in that. We will have to wait for the evolution of the paddle shifter on these new OS.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
You are correct about processing power and RAM for nowadays mobile processors. They are quite enough to justify full frontal multitasking.

However, battery life still problematic. The technology is not there yet.

I know there are promising battery tech exist, but they are not available for consumer/mass market.

If I have to choose:

A. Full frontal multitasking you can run anything anytime in the background with battery life = 1 day

VS

B. Limited and controlled multitasking with battery life = 3 days

I will take option B :)

No, I do not believe Microsoft will choose option C. No multitasking at all.

My feeling, Microsoft will choose option B.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] elyl:
Your analogy falls down in Europe, where "stick-shift" is still in the vast majority of cars and still by far the most popular.

Don't know what that means for the rest of your argument, but just thought I'd clear that one up for you ;)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Simply because it is "cheaper" than an automatic, not because it is better.

see my reference to design engineers of supercars such as Nissan GTR1 and Bugatti Veyron. Both have fully automatic transmissions. No option of getting stick shift.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] elyl:
Bollocks. Automatic, if manufactured in bulk, is not significantly more expensive than manual. Most people in Europe drive a manual because they prefer the control it gives. I could easily buy an automatic, but I've got a 6-speed manual because I want my car to change gear when I tell it to.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Those are not "automatic" transmissions but more of electronically controlled dual clutch gearboxes. A normal "automatic" uses a torque converter, those do not.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Shasarak:
Is it just me or are we getting a little off-topic here? :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Ah it's you... sorry, forgot that.

Your comparison to cars is ridiculous... not being able to multitask is not like driving a car with automatics - it's like driving a car with only one gear.

I don't want to control multitasking manually. I want applications that need to run in the background to be able to do so. I don't care whether they do so automatically or not.

The iPhone is like a car with one gear. Total fail.

Android does a fine job at handling multitasking automatically. webOS allows to control it manually. It works great on both.

There is no excuse for no multitasking (unless your OS is so crappy that you have to strip out features like multitasking and Flash support, to get it working).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
The computer controls the shifts. That is what I mean. It does not matter what type of gearbox it is...dual clutch, slush-o-matic, hyro-matic, cvt, etc.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
This I agree with you.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] irdawood:
Yes and MS have said that such fundamental applications (like the ones mentioned above) will have multitasking capability, they said this on the Engadget show last night. I believe the third party apps will not be able to multi-task, but lets face it apart from IM and the apps above why would you want 'true' multi tasking? as long as the OS pauses the app it doesn't really matter.