yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] Benjiro:
Add another to the "It looks ugly" list.

Especially the home screen. What have they been thinking? People consider that Innovative? No offense, but HTC Sence, SPB Mobile Shell etc are innovative.

What i see, is MS product linking. Looks like they implemented almost every services into the system. While some people will like that, but what about people who do not own a xbox, with a Life network services?

This feels all typical MS over again.

I hope that most off the crap can be removed, and that we still have access to the core system ( to put our own Shell over it ). If not, well, then we end up with a cripple device in my eyes.

HTC HD2 -> Smartdragon. What is being used by the WM6.5.x? CPU, and a slight bit from the GPU ( rendering ).

No ARMv7 code support, no DSP, no GPU offloading, almost nothing.

Thats why most off us wanted the WM7 OS. Finally a OS with support for all those features ... O wait. What do we get? A bunch off blue "buttons".

I'm so surprised to see people at engadget call out how beautiful it looks? Are we looking at the same picture? Sure, some off the submenu's have a nice look to it. But the main screen just looks ugly.

When i compare this to HTC Sence, Android, iPhone, WebOs ... they all have a much better look to it. WM7 Looks more like something for children. A Zune like player.

The problem is, MS there specs focus the OS to a high end device. High end = Business in general. I do not see a lot off business people using that!

I hope there is more to it. But what i'm seeing makes me wish for Android on the HTC HD2, and i'm not exactly a fan off Android.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
They'll just remove what they don't need, no big deal.
[HD2 General] harsaphes:
I have to say i really like how it looks and I do think it looks beautiful. Im tired of all the UIs right now. I love my ZuneHD and Im going to love my new Windows Phone.
[HD2 General] aceo07:
If I remove Bing search and social networking and Xbox live, what do I have left that is really different? :) It seems like those were the main items they were focusing on.
[HD2 General] lakeland:
In all the promotion they failed to even look at the way phone calls and text/email messages are made.

It is essentially a social network phone / music player, oh, and a mobile phone. All of this GUI stuff which is supposed to make life easier... making phone calls and sending text messages on my nokia 3310 is way faster than the hd2
[HD2 General] vardig:
Forward to 6:51:30 and pay close attention to the her hand raised to her Ear @ 6:51:38 and Pause....that bak of the HTC HD2 !!!!!!

They have masked the front of the phone with CGI...LoL

HTC HD2 .....YEP !!! there it is !!!

http://www.studiosevent.com/newscen...&height=360&color=FF5500&width=400&height=224
[HD2 General] ainatar:
So an upgrade will be available for the HD2? Is it if official now?
[HD2 General] vardig:
It's obvious.....why is the HD2 the only phone to have this type of Spec ???

it meets all the requirements of Micorosft....as well as the "Big Screen" they keep talking about.

;););)

thats why I sold my touch Pro 2 and got the HD2. now its a waiting game.
[HD2 General] Goatmaster:
Email is shown in this video, somewhere from the middle to the end forgot the exact time: http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/wi.../15/windows-phone-7-series-show-and-tell.aspx
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
They focused on them because they thought they were important (and they are, actually, but I'll get to that a bit later).

You can't remove Bing because it'll be a system that'll do phone local search, not just web.

Social networking is part of contacts ("People").

So Xbox live is the only thing you really want to remove. You still have music, photos, videos, and anything else you want to create yourself. You can create your own customized "tiles". Or just have applications instead of "tiles". And because this homescreen is a Silverlight application, you'll be able to basically have anything you want there.

Now back to the social networking. I actually never used that stuff until I needed to upload a picture to share. I used HTC Album for that, and it uploads to Facebook. I found out that Facebook has unlimited photo storage. Now I think it's cool. I don't post anything there but it's really nice to have that built into your phone.
[HD2 General] KB24@CL:
is grzegorz already working on BG4alltabs for windows phone 7?:D
[HD2 General] mazzarin:
I'm pretty sure the build they were running @MWC didn't even have a phone component to show off. If you looked closely, you saw a battery indicator but no usual tower indicator (even one with an X to show it's off) or carrier name.

I guess it is understandable. Ultimately, the integration is what gets people excited, not "look at our high res dialpad." Hopefully we'll see more at MIX.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
Well, don't forget about games. I would assume you would access that part of the phone from the XBox/Games tile. So don't delete that either...:p
[HD2 General] gabbs:
lol..it's like they were waiting on this thread so they could say something negative..lol
[HD2 General] mazzarin:
Dialer is shown in the LAST 3 seconds of the first Engadget video, pretty standard nothing exciting, doesn't even look finished TBH.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/?s=t5
[HD2 General] tomkn27:
another look

since I can't post url's yet,

site is news dot com dot au

/technology/microsoft-unveils-mobile-platform-upgrade/story-e6frfro0-1225830767997[/url]
[HD2 General] freyberry:
That's exactly why it might fail. If those things are not available immediately at launch, it will fail. Why? Because the early adopters will find their devices to be pretty much useless, despite the great UI. And those early adopters are the ones who will spread their thoughts and influence potential buyers.

My phone is also a PNA, a device to find out about transit timetables, and so on... if Microsoft can not provide those things from the beginning, WP7 will fail.

If they can, however, I think it will overtake the phone market and make the iPhone a niche product, much like what happened with the Macintosh. Because clearly, Apple's vertical approach doesn't work in the huge market that the smartphone market is going to be.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
What is X-box integration exactly? Why is it a big feature. Sounds rubbish to me.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
Yes, this OS is finally something I can hear the phrase "iPhone killer" and actually believe it. I love how it brings so much real-world stuff together at an OS level (sort of what Sense tries to do).

MS is smartly tying it's product lines together in the same way Apple does theirs. Very smart business move to tie their markets together into a mobile device.
[HD2 General] eaglesteve:
For non-gamers this would sound rubbish, but not to the gamers.

I have only watched my sons playing x-box and have not played it myself. I get the impression that x-box games require hardware controls, whereas WP7S is completely touch screen, so I don't know how portable the games are. It may be only a conceptual direction by MS which might or might not work in real life. Or perhaps this is a emulator to be able to play the x-box games, with software button that does equivalent function as the hardware controls?
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
I think the tile (Hub in MS speak) is actually called "Games featuring XBox Live", not singularly XBox Live. So there's probably a lot more to it than XBox live. I would hope that they could have some mobile-friendly versions of XBox titles in there eventually though.
[HD2 General] eaglesteve:
Users must be able to actually play the game on the device for it to be useful. Not sure if they need to buy another mobile version of the game in addition to what they have already invested on the X-Box. If it is an additional investment, I think it might be taken as a negative by the consumers.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Thanks, if it means playing actual x-box oldies then thats cool. But if its just tracking your console scores its not that impressive.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
From what I see in the videos, everything is not finished about the phone/OS.

I wouldn't expect the phone to play exact console games but just being able to play mobile versions of popular titles and great 3rd party titles is good enough for me.
[HD2 General] mazzarin:
Question: I've heard many times that WM6.5.x just can't take advantage of a lot of the hardware features that are present in the HD2, so it's a sort of 'brute force' approach to making things fast. When WM7 comes out (and lets assume the HD2 does get upgraded), will the enhanced hardware control offer things like... lower power consumption?
[HD2 General] derScheich:
Take a look at the screenshots. Imho you will find mobile games there to play and compare your scores to others etc.. Just one of the 4 tabs is headed "XBOX Live".
[HD2 General] donalgodon:
So there won't be Halo 4 for Windows Mobile 7? Forget it, I don't want to upgrade after all. :rolleyes:
[HD2 General] chongbh:
Windows Mobile 7 website has launched :

http://www.windowsphone7series.com/

You can try the demo at the website but make sure you must install the Silverlight first.
[HD2 General] Stilts:
I don't know if this has been posted yet but I found this.

slashgear.com/htc-hd2-winmo-7-upgrade-tipped-by-htc-support-team-1569939/

I really do hope that the HD2 will get a WM7 upgrade. I'm still waiting for it to come to TMO USA, and whether or not it will get WM7 will affect my decision in getting the HD2.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
^^^ Some of you guys are acting as if the HD2 is the last and greatest phone HTC will ever produce. By the time WP7 hits the streets, your HD2 will be worn and ready for replacement.

Read the last line of that article:

"As we said last year, you should only ever buy a device because it fits your needs now, not for what it may or may not do X months down the line."
[HD2 General] tictac0566:
Macintosh ≠ niche product

iPod ≠ niche product

iPhone navigation ≠ available from the very beginning

Your argumentation seems to have quite a narrow focus on German market figures maybe.

Microsoft has showed proof that they learnt some lessons.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
^^^

My big question is:

Will Zune apps also work on WP7 phones?

That will be a good starting point for a software base. Plus, I'm sure there will be a small number of WP7 apps available at launch in the marketplace or Zune store or whatever it'll be called.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Macintosh = niche product. Definitely. 4% market share is niche.

iPod ≠ niche product but irrelevant for this discussion, cause the PMP market is one where the vertical approach works

iPhone navigation ≠ available from the very beginning, yes, but availabble NOW, which means WP7 must have it from the beginning, if it wants to compete with the iPhone

Microsoft has not learned anything. Thy're still wasting their time on redundant products and letting clueless, but influential press peole and bloggers influence their decisions (= start from scratch, while completely dumping the very good foundation they already had, just because stupid people on the internet kept bashing that good foundation).

They've done exactly the same thing with WP7 that they did with Vista: Development reset, start from scratch and then rush to release an unfinished product.

And that's why it might fail, just like Vista.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
They had blunders with Vista, but Vista didn't fail. Windows 7 is actually still Vista.

I seriously doubt this WP7 will fail. The only question is how much marketshare will MS gain with it?

Windows Mobile had to die and I'm glad MS chose to kill it instead of trying to patch it up and make it look new (WM 6.5). They were getting nowhere fast with Windows Mobile.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
It did fail... (though I personally liked it and kept defending it).

If they can't deliver the applications that are important, it will fail. It doesn't matter how good the UI is when the device is actually "useless", due to the lack of third party applications.

They will either fail completely or gain big market share.
[HD2 General] donalgodon:
Every version of Windows OS is basically a for cost service pack release anyway. ;)
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Actually, I've been using 7 since the second milestone (when it still looked like Vista), and not had any problems with it. Thus, I disagree.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
It worked for iPhone, it'll work for MS. How long before the iPhone got 3rd party apps? Look what happened after that...:p

Fortunately, MS already has it's services in place unlike Apple. Out of the box, this seems like much more of a full featured device than iPhone was at it's launch.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
But the iPhone had no competition. WP7 has lots of competition and they're not standing still. A lot will happen until the end of the year... you can't compare the launch of WP7 to the launch of the iPhone. Big mistake you make there.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
No company can produce a full blown mobile OS and ecosystem in a few months. The competition has already shot their load...:D

iPhone DID have competition at it's release. You think apps were invented when iPhone hit the market? Was iPhone the "FIRST" smartphone? Every other smartphone on the market had apps and the ability to play mp3's. WM itself had 1000's of apps years before iPhone. iPhone was revolutionary in the sense of its user experience and iTunes connection. What smartphones have the ecosystem WP7 and iPhone have?...NONE. This is the advantage that MS and Apple have over the competition. Google, has a less developed ecosystem.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
No. Not in the market it was targeted at. It basically created that market. It was not targeted at WM users, it was targeted at "normal people". It wasn't even a smartphone back then.

WP7 enters a market that already exists, and there's lots of competition there.
[HD2 General] donalgodon:
That's really true. A lot of folks who did not even know what a smartphone was or that WM existed became iPhone users. Apple found a market and exploited it successfully. Though they have a small market they completely dominate all phone app sales on the order of a magnitude, so market share alone is not the entire picture.
[HD2 General] tfouto:
I dont get it. There is a Bing button, but not a phone button??? Will we start using Bing (Google maps whatever), more than actually making calls? If i want to make a call do i have to navigate through tiles? But wait, i can instantly use Bing. That's great, i can always eat sushy nearby, its happening me all the time. And i want to go to cinema 3 times at day, but i dont know any cinema near me so i ending up going none, or perhaps just want to see where i am from above via sattelites photo. Or just making a new search in Bing. Its a great think. I will do that all the time and just not ocasionally. I might even stop using SIM cards. Then there's lot of Facebook, Windows Live, etc. And the concept of everything all live, every status and messages and everything keeping changing. Its great but i have to get 10 batteries on my pocket.

It seems that they want to inovate so much that its becoming non-pratical. Just trying to go new. Then they say that its a phone that meets individual needs. That's great, you could choose the squares you want in it, can we change the colors too? say from blue to green? that would be awsome. Of course they will close the system and there will be no more really 'free' customization...

But hey, i will have a Bing button. Really nice.
[HD2 General] Sangheili:
This is where I think people will be taken by surprise.

First off this platform already has a foundation, Windows CE 6. Secondly, I have a STRONG feeling that what is powering the presentation layer is Silverlight. If i'm right, that means the presentation layer will be an incredibly rapid development engine (think WebOS). Silverlight combined with Expression/Visual Studio will provide for the greatest development environment an independent developer has ever seen.

Secondly, on the question of Application support: At what point is this "App Store" and 3rd party app environment really all it's cracked up to be, if the services that they provide access to can be integrated directly into the OS shell? Who needs a Maps "App" if the phone has Bing Maps integrated into every aspect of the shell? Facebook? Check. Media player? Zune. Games? Xbox Live.

I think Microsoft is on the right path where Apple and others have strayed off into silly land. The app ecosystem will fall to the services and service integration ecosystem. We are already seeing this with all the talk of the "Cloud" and SaaS on the web.

5 Years from now no one will remember what an "App" is. They will be downloading "Service Plugins" for the next Twitter, Facebook, Flickr, whatever.

Of course the operation system will have to support this service integration at some extensible level, and I think we will see exactly that at MIX 2010. Microsoft will be pushing service integration, not stand alone apps.

That's my take on it all... ::D
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
I think the focus is on the OS right now...not the hardware. I'm sure there'll be an instant access to the phone functionality (would be dumb move if not).

I hope Bing search has Voice Search enabled like on Bing mobile now. Better yet, I wish WP7 has OS-wide voice navigation built-in, but so far that seems to be a no-go.

@freyberry

iPhone created a market in the sense that they did a better design job than the crap that was out at the time. Apple made the smartphone less geeky so the masses could enjoy it out of the box. Other manufacturers are now following suit, since that's where the money is at. Personally, I don't think a new market was created, Apple just caught everyone with their pants down and took off running and never looked back...:o
[HD2 General] Sangheili:
Just out of curiosity, how often do you dial a phone number directly? If not very often, wouldn't it make sense that the People section would be your launch pad to all types of communication? Why look up someones number via the phone if you could look it up via the contacts then simply Dial?

I suppose by my logic we should have a People button too though...

Also it is worth mentioning that there are more and more way to communicate now a days then just a standard phone call. SIP/Skype, SMS, IM, Email, Facebook/Twitter, Webcam, etc.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
^^^ ...and there's always double tapping or holding and stuff like that.
[HD2 General] tfouto:
The fastest way to make a call is pressing the phone button and start typing the name on dial keyboard. Do you use it Google maps often? Skype is just unpratical, at least for now. The limited bandwith makes impossible to use skype on a regular basis, at least for me.
[HD2 General] aceo07:
Unfortunately, most people don't think like you do. I absolutely hate that all the new 'smartphones' don't have the dial/hangup physical buttons anymore. They want to be more like 'smart digital shopping/app/communication devices' that help you facebook/twitter better and consume goods easier.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
Well, you'll have to admit, young folks in the U.S. don't really talk on the phone that much anymore. It's all texting and social networking. They only use the phone to tell Mom when they'll be home...:p
[HD2 General] aceo07:
Unfortunately they STILL talk on the phone, usually loudly and for too long. I do wish they'd tweet or facebook more, though not have it influence the design of devices that I want to buy! lol! :p
[HD2 General] Sangheili:
Hit the search button. Type the name of the person. Select them and hit call. Same thing, no?
[HD2 General] aceo07:
(On my HTC Dream)

I hit the dial button, it takes me to the call log (with tabs to contacts/favorites) and I tap the call icon next to 6 last people called. It takes 1 button press and 1 screen tap to make a phone call for me. This works from any app that I might be in.

The dial button also picks up the phone. So I can feel for the button if I'm in bed without looking at the screen to tap the answer icon.

WP7 was definitely not targeted for people like me. I don't even use the search that much. (Glad I don't have a dedicated button on the Dream.)
[HD2 General] shaffaf:
Wm7 sucks

microsoft better call this thing zune phone and deliver a real multitasking os that is skinnable ...its so sad
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
For the current crop of smartphones, true multi-tasking and ultra-responsiveness seem to be mutually exclusive. WP7 appears to have workarounds to true multitasking though. Supposedly we'll learn more at MIX
[HD2 General] shaffaf:
i loved windows mobile because i can change the ui easily wen ever i want and never be ored ...and this thing doesnt even support wallpapers...and also i like windows mobile because i can also choose mi very own ui for every aspect of the phone....and what happened to the previously leaked awesome image of windows mobile ...i want that one
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
I think all of those different skins was a strike against WM. WP7 brings a much needed consistency. WM had too many incompatibilities within it's own platform.
[HD2 General] trumanhw:
Im absolutely SHOCKED by those who've asked what will happen to applications.. First, an SDK will be released, then, we'll all have an idea.

Second, people are asking what will happen to 'sense UI'. Again, the old one's not going to work. But, HTC will most likely eventually be able to make some new version. And it probably won't be ready right at release.

Next, this as I recall was supposed to be a consumer phone. Hopefully there will be some measure to allow people to disable facebook, twitter, xbox, etc.. But again, this is for the consumer workspace. Often, they're none the wiser of WHICH operating system a phone is of - be it blackberry, proprietary, winmo. So the things we think of as high priority, like granular control of access to the root directory, 3rd party apps, which ROM is installed, just might not matter to 90% of the sales of Windows phones.

What will matter, are things beyond what all Im able to think of since I'm actually more android-familiar, but, security, exchange, and, I can't imagine an enterprise level purchase of handsets that don't include a qwerty keyboard. I'd imagine that the business version of WinMo7 will be a bit cleaner, whatever that looks like. Which, basically, looks in my mind like 6.5.3! So I see no point in changing.

But that's the rub; we insist on change, don't we.
[HD2 General] stoolzo:
change

Yes, change is good... but, I think the problem here is that most people were expecting the change akin to be something like XP to windows 7 not XP to OSx. This is clearly an attempt to copy apple's business model.

I dont know about anyone else but i am still wondering where Windows mobile 7 is as this is clearly Zune with phone functionality bolted on.Lets hope microsft contine to develop 6.5 and call it business mobile.

My other concern is that what will this do to XDA?, if people are expecting the new phone running this OS to just "work" like the Iphone then think again I would say, then again as cpu and 3d performance gets quicker performance will never be an issue again as there will soon become a point where the size of the screen becomes a limiting factore to how fast the hardware has to be.
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
I imagine the business version will be the same new OS and GUI with some extra business specific functionality built-in that regular consumers just don't need.

What features does Sense UI have that the new WP7 doesn't ?
[HD2 General] trumanhw:
Dont confuse "copying iPhone" with "entering consumer market with something they'll like."
[HD2 General] mazzarin:
Just organized differently. I noticed a lot of things during the demo where I thought "hey that's like Sense!", I wouldn't be surprised if there was some crosstalk going on between MS and HTC during UI development.

And to those concerned about the XBL or other panels and their place on a business-centric phone, they did constantly say it's all customizable. I wouldn't be surprised if the carriers or the manufacturers just hid those panels away when they release 'WP7S:Professional'