yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ReflexNPG:
I had a HD2 also for 3 days - the capacitive screen was a fantastic DEprovement - i've sent it back to Amazon.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Scrolling still not as fluid as the iphone. Sorry. Maybe this is a beta therefore...but if this is it....sorry.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] style1:
Well as a person who also develops i am inclined to agree, you lay the foundation first, the foundation is the OS or UI, not the Hardware. You may believe its a weak argument...but here is how I will prove you're wrong. Look at the this early build of WP7...look at the early builds from Sony Ericsson's X10, look at the early builds of the N900....they all had their bugs. Performance is given by the parts with in (WP7 has a very high Minimum hardware requirements) When they build this software, as I do, i use it on an emulator. So touch software is usually always added near the end because most of the work is done without a physical device. Code can be changed. Hell the phone wasn't optimized for copy/paste yet..c'mon if thats not an early build..lol. Look at how far 6.5 has come in the months its been released.. M$ has more than enough time to make the changes they need.

EDIT: The Iphone doesn't integrate the complete User experience the way this phone does...plus let be honest, you're just scrolling from left to right 85% of the time to go from page to page. Lets not talk about the Iphone, M$ isn't trying to do what Iphone did...I ask you Why try to fit in, when you're a stand out?

However let me be the first to admit....I don't do the whole social networking thing. My device would be so barren and devoid of personality. lol. anyway lets just agree to disagree here. It doesn't matter what we say here, WP7 will happen, and people will buy it and life will go on. Honestly even if you didn't buy it, you've already lined M$'s pockets enough with your current phones...they're happy already...lol

~style~
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] WhyBe:
I always thought a lot of the "response problems" of resistive screens had nothing to do with resistive technology, but rather the fact that Windows Mobile is just a sluggish/laggy OS. Even the HD2 with a capacitive screen has lags (lessened by the Snapdragon). I think the difference in responsiveness has more to do with the underlying OS than it does with the screen technology. Capacitive is more sensitive and takes a lighter touch, but that means nothing if the OS lags.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] hobbbbit:
Well, I wouldn't jump a gun and start yelling at every corner about no multitasking. If you watch walkthroughs posted all over the internet carefully, you'll notice that Windows 7 does multitask, and it does it by default. Watch hands-on posted on Engadget, for example. If you watch closely, you will notice, that once the application has been lunched, and then "closed" by pressing home button, if you press "back" button, you'll see that application popup were it was left off. More then that, if you navigate to a page and "close" it with home button, when you press back, IE opens up again, with exactly the same page opened, just were you left it and it's clearl that it's not just loading it all over again, because there's no delay.

So based on that it looks like all of the applications are continuing to run at the background, it just seems that Microsoft isn't going to provide any tools for switching between running applications. Now is this a good approach? I don't think so. I think in the end you will end up with too many apps running on the background and eating up all your memory. But hey, that's what Windows Mobile been doing for ages now.

So at this point, it all depends on how open MS is going to make their platform, if they are going to lock it down to a very limited set of APIs, like Apple does, then yeah, no multitasking in a real sense of the word. But if they are going to follow what they've always done before, as in, make API as large as possible, to allow as much freedom to a developers as possible, then I can guaranty that 2 days after the launch of the first Windows 7 device, we will see applications that will allow you to switch between running tasks.

I guess we'll know more about this in a month when MIX comes around.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sleepwalkers:
Wanted to refute (or at least provide a counterpoint) to some of your points...

If you've used an iPhone (a phone that doesn't do multitasking), you're able to listen to music and run another app with music playing in the background. The basic processes like keeping a webpage in memory, playing music, etc. are able to run in the background, while the third-party apps are what have to essentially quit themselves every time the home button is hit. I'd have a hard time believing WPS7 is going to be any different.

What about multitouch is so terrible? Have you ever used a capacitive, multitouch device? Tap twice on a part of a webpage and - voila - it zooms in! Just like any other mobile web browser! Just because it supports pinch-to-zoom and things like that doesn't mean it requires it. When you can easily scroll through a list with kinetic scrolling (scrolling with momentum - flick your finger, the list keeps scrolling after you lift your finger), you don't need a scrollbar. Really.

When having a finger-friendly OS, a capacitive screen is a godsend. If you have an onscreen keyboard with a smartphone OS, a capacitive screen is a necessity for very fast typing. Resistive screens can't handle more than one press at a time; press one key on-screen, then before releasing that finger, press another key. Release first finger. Watch that letter not show up on screen. Do the same thing on a capacitive screen, and both will show up.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] WhyBe:
That doesn't mean multi-tasking. Programs are simply suspended and just start back where they left off. It doesn't mean they are still running in the background.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Fantastica:
The way I see it, a lot of apps will integrate into the "hubs". So, for example, if you install a Pandora application, it will be part of the Music hub. Because the Music hub has the right to run in the background to play music, the Pandora app, as part of the music hub, will be able to as well. There are countless examples of this. The multi-tasking isn't as limited as you think.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] jmigliosi:
Resistive Touch Screen and Stylus

Am I the only one left that uses a stylus to take notes? There's no way I can type faster than write or sketch with a stylus. A stylus offers exact precision when entering something. Hello capacitive screen ... good-by stylus :(
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] altae:
I dont know about you guys but so far I am somewhat dissappointed. I mean come on its the year 2010 and there are devices like the HD 2 that come with more than 500 MB of ram. Nonetheless MS tells us: We have something better then multi-tasking. We suspend the programs in the background and reactivate them when you switch between. I want my RSS reader to update the feeds while I am surfing the internet, I want my E-Mail client to download my mails while I am watching a movie. Got it? This is multi-tasking in the way it has been known for more than 20 years. Everything else is unacceptable for me in the year 2010 and there is absolutely no way MS will ever be able to convince me that their iphonish multi-suspending is a useful replacement. I really hope MS will leave the decision up to the user whether he/she wants true multi-tasking despite the fact that it consumes ram and might slow down the system or speed is ones ultimate goal and therefore he/she prefers suspending programs. Otherwise there will be no way for me buying a Windows Pho.ne 7
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] burnblue:
These will still happen. Why would you think they wouldn't?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gogol:
I believe that would be ok. at least its core functionalities like email ... web browser ... zune ... fm radio would be multitask-able.

You can run other app while this core function is also running.

I dont mind semi multitasking as long as it can have much longer battery life.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] kersh:
If I cant use an app like WkTask on WM7 and change simply and fast between apps, that is not multitask.

If I cannot use multitasking in a phone, then bye bye WM and say hello to android.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] LeeJS:
Utter rubbish. You and I should try scrolling through a long web page, a large inbox or a big document using a scroll bar vs your kinetic scrolling. You keep flipping your finger over and over and tell me when you think you're half way through and I'll just drag the scroll bar down in a few seconds in one easy movement. I've used a capacitive screen for a while and it just doesn't suit the way I work.

Unfortunately the style nazis at Apple have decided what's best and everyone is following suit.

And don't even get me started about pinch and zoom. What a load of useless overhyped bollocks. Not once have I ever felt the need to want to use it. It's yet more flashy style over substance rubbish.

Get me really mad and I'll lament the passing of the scroll wheel! How I will miss being able to read my RSS feeds one handed using a scroll wheel and a good set of buttons while I wheel a pushchair or a shopping trolley. Not all change is for the better.

The more I see the direction things are going, the more I realise that, actually, there's very little wrong with winmo as it is that a decent paint job wouldn't fix. I want fiddly menus, I want scroll bars, I want the power to make my phone do what I want it to. I just wish it was more stable!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] wreiad:
I used to think the same, until I used an iPhone. The kinetic scrolling more than made up for the lack of scrollbars. You simply don't need them. That presumptuous way of thinking doesn't actually hold up in real-world tests.

The companies have always decided what's best in some shape or form for the consumer. It just so happens that what they've decided this time around doesn't sit well with you.

It's actually pretty nice to do every now and then, and I enjoy pinch zooming over double tapping. I really don't know what people love so much about one handed usage after I saw how easy it is to just hold the phone and navigate with the other hand. And let's not go there about using both our hands since it seems like you like using a stylus.

I think people are really too spoiled over having all these old features [File explorer] that we'll soon no longer even need. Nowadays people this and that for the sake of having it, rather than asking themselves if they can just make do with a different, not necessarily bad way of doing things.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
That's wrong. When lists get very long, the iPhone uses letter bars at the side, which is pretty much the same as scrollbars.

The HTC Sense music player is a place without any kind of scrollbars, and it's very annoying. You just can't scroll through a list of 3000 songs with kinetic scrolling only. Impossible.

I agree with LeeJS for the most part. Having a file explorer is always better than not having one, no matter how often you use it. Sure, often there are better ways to do something, but sometimes the "old" methods are simply the best ones and there is no reason not to implement them where it doesn't hurt. A scrollbar hurts noone, doesn't take much space and in some cases, it's much better than kinetic scrolling. A file explorer hurts noone, but sometimes it's useful. Multitasking hurts noone (as long as devs are encouraged to make use of it wisely), but sometimes it's essential (e.g. for car navigation). That list goes on.....

.....likewise, it's of course better to have the pinch to zoom feature than not to have it. Many people find it convenient, myself included (though it should NOT encourage OEMs to use crappy, low-res screens, like the iPhone's).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] wreiad:
I was saying that the kinetic scrolling eliminates the need for scroll bars, and the letters are actually more functional than scroll bars in that instance.

Then that's HTC's problem. The iPhone and Zune HD avoided that pitfall. Even so, it's more of a none issue to me since I can narrow down a search by just going to the artist.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Of course that's HTC's problem. I was just saying that kinetic scrolling alone is not enough, and this is an example where a company has made a big mistake by not providing an alternative to kinetic scrolling (be it a letter bar, a scrollbar, or a search box).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] wreiad:
Ironically, Windows Media Player on those old phones have scroll bars.. You're talking about Sense on the Hero? Cause it's confusing now when people say it to mean Touchflo 3D [I don't even see the big difference]
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] MOE-GUNZ-JACKSON:
Yep, kinetic scrolling + search feature = win

I can't believe I use to use that lame scrollbar.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Windows Media Player even used to have a search feature! Yep, instant search throughout the whole system. Media, contacs, mail and so on... years before the iPhone got that feature.

Those great features of Windows Mobile got ignored for years now. People only focused on the ugliness and non-fingerfriendlyness of its UI, but they never say how well thought through and functional that UI actually was.

Instead, phone makers (Apple included) came up with new UIs that have been lacking a lot of the functionality that Windows Mobile provided years ago.

And Microsoft? They could have simply added finger-friendlyness and a new design to the functional UI they already had. But just like all the others, they didn't get it. It's typically Microsoft not to understand the value of their own products.

It's a sad story, really.

By the way: I was talking about Sense on WM.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Since when has WMP had search? If you're talking about using the keyboard to skip down in the list when selecting songs alphabetically like in the file browser, that is NOT search. If you're referring to something different, I don't recall this ever existing and I've been using WM since 5.0.

But WM has plenty of problems outside of the UI.

For one, it needs a new SDK, bad. Developing finger friendly, attractive apps is a nightmare comapred to the other guys. If I want to make an app that supports inertial scrolling even, it takes a ton of work or use of kludgy 3rd party APIs.

Next, the built in apps generally suck. WMP is garbage as is the picture viewer. Text messaging app and yea, even outlook annoys me. Why the hell do I have to hit two buttons to show images in a email and then another one to turn on scrolling? Although IE isn't as bad as many make it out to be, it's still pretty crappy in comparison.

Then, the whole interface paradigm of not supporting multitouch is a huge problem.

Finally, probably the most significant change has nothing to do with software but is just them tightening the hardware requirements. When writing software you either have make exceptions or just develop for the least common denominator. When most WM devices out there don't even have legit OpenGL drivers (thanks HTC!) how do you write anything with high quality graphics?

You act as if adding a new UI is some small task. But isn't that exactly what they've done? WM (2003, 5, 6, and WP7) is basically just a phone UI built on top of WinCE. They scrapped the old UI and designed a new one. It's still WinCE underneath. Please, tell me how a UI that looks like crap, isn't finger friendly, and is a mess of random menus and other random paradigms is "functional".

HTC sense, while pretty nice, is still lipstick on a pig. HTC is a hardware company, not a software developer. There is no excuse for TouchFlo/Sense to even exist IMO. It just shouldn't be needed.

And what happened to the common sense you found in this post?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
It has always had search. It does not only skip down by letters, it really searches through lists. Try it out.

As for the rest, I mainly agree. But making a new UI does not mean dumping the old, good technologies they already had in WM6.5 (and long before).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Wow... I found it. Here's the steps I had to take.

1. Start button

2. Media Player

3. My Music

4. All Music

5. Just start typing

Caveat... it only searches "Title"... not artist, album, or anything else. Nowhere does the interface suggest in the least that you can search. I do agree, that WM has lots of features that are extremely powerful and had them long before everyone else even existed. But, the interface is so bad in many ways that even a "power user" such as myself can't find them.

To have a new UI you have to replace the old UI. What "technologies" exactly is MS ditching?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Lots of small things, eventually... we haven't seen enough, yet, to be sure. Landscape mode, copy&paste, smart dialing, even multitasking... we'll have to wait at least four more weeks, but I'm afraid they ditched lots of the good things that were in WM6.5 (and earlier versions).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Landscape is there (one of the videos briefly showed it). They also noted that they're supporting slide-out keyboards and the screen will automatically rotate.

Copy & paste does concern me a bit but I don't see how they could ditch that. They've shown the "long press" already and I don't see why they can't continue to use that for copy/paste.

Smart dialing... we've only seen the phone very briefly and it was noted that it wasn't done. While it may not make the cut, there's no reason to believe that it won't.

Multitasking, this is obviously a big open question that MS is being coy about. But you cannot fairly assume that they won't support it. Yea, it may not be in the "everything is always running" like it is now (which is a dumb way IMO) but there's no way they ditch it altogether.

But yea, in 4 weeks we'll have an SDK. I, for one, am pretty excited to get my hands on it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I need it for the whole OS, not only for messaging/browser. There is no confirmation at all that this works, like in WM6.5

It's Microsoft, after all. They make stupid decisions.

Again, since we're talking about Microsoft: There's lots of reason to believe they would forget such an important feature.

What I find particularly annoying, is, we've been waiting for years now, only to be told that we have to wait even longer "until MIX", when they could actually answer our questions now. That sucks, makes me really angry at MSFT. They're screwing all their loyal power users and only show off consumer the stuff that no power user cares about. I can understand why, but nevertheless, it sucks.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] wreiad:
You sound as if you want them to fail so they can justify your discontent.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] altae:
Because there were several voices who claimed after MWC that general multi-tasking would not be possible with WP 7. Only certain programs would be allowed to run in the background while others would only be suspended and reactivated afterwards. And that's an important detail for me because in my opinion every limitation of multi-tasking is a huge step backwards. Why should we accept that? Devices becoming better and better (an avarage smartphone nowadays has more processing power and ram than a computer had at the end/ beginning oft the 80s/ 90s) but the possibilities are becoming fewer? I am definitely not going to accept any restrictions on multi-tasking at all. Any program has to be able to run in the background at any time. That's the only definition of multi-tasking. Everything else is Apples imagination of multi-tasking and guess why I have not chosen so far an Iphone? Because I dont like their restrictions.

But to keep up the positive thinking: None of all this has been confirmed yet. Maybe I am all wrong (I really hope so). I love WM (or now WP) and if there is any chance I will gladly go for another Windows Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Phat7:
I think this video actually proves (albeit unintentionally :)) that Windows Phone 7 series will have multitasking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Lw1jmiDso

At 1:24 the user presses the IE icon and the BBC website appears instantly. There is no way the website loaded that fast, let alone without typing a url or anything. This shows that IE was open in the background and the user just switched to it.

Multitasking? I think so.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ReflexNPG:
and now you tell me, that paint, wordpad & calculator in Windows are great and you are using them every day? Yes, sure!

Microsoft includes crappy tools intentionally to let other firms participate - its simply bad by design. Contrary to the underlying OS. I have very few crashes (both WM6.x & XP) and i'm pretty happy with it.

There is a wide range of software for the "old" Windows Mobile. I like that and that i can install what i want (see iPhone). The new 7 series must start from scratch - or maybe they end up with a VM to emulate a WM6.x...

Does really everybody wants a "stupid-save" phone?

No risk -> no freedom! (this applies to software also as to the rest of our life...)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Re scrolling, the implementation in HD2 combines the best of both worlds. It has kinetic scrolling and no scrollbars, yet by touching the edge of the screen you get a knob popping up that acts like the one in your usual scrollbar, and you can instantly move the page to any position you want.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] kholk:
WP7 is based on CE7.

CE7 has got multitasking features.

WP7 too.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
That's not the question. The question is, whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background. This has been answered with a "no" by Microsoft.

So what about TomTom, for example? What if you get a call, will it be able to tell you directions and will you be taken back to the application when you hang up? This is a serious issue.

You don't understand the issue here. The iPhone has got multitasking as well. But third party apps are not allowed to use it. Same for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Provide link to source. MS has not said such things!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Joe Belfiore:

http://gizmodo.com/5472240/is-there...indows-phone-7-hint-its-a-lot-like-the-iphone

This is a pretty clear "no".
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] pilgrim011:
That's not multitasking. WP7 just "preserved" the state (current page that was loaded) of Internet Explorer before exiting the app.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Clear as mud.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] altae:
Personally I think there is certainly going to be some kind of issue with multi-tasking. I mean if you had just presented a brand new os and it provided a feature like multi-tasking would you answer questions by saying: "Hm not sure we will inform you later but we got something for you"? Come on an implemented feature is always a pro argument for selling your product. Would you really answer like this if your product came with the requested feature?

For me it just sounds like the us government when questioned about potential torturing in Guantanamo. "Did you torture?" Answer: "The American goverment does not torture but we employed some kind of experimental interrogation methods" This post is not at all about politics but in both cases, why do you think we dont get a clear yes or no?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
In both cases because there is no clear yes or no. It's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be (for both).