yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
"The red arrows are actually invisibile, and are sensible areas which "sum up" the effect of the two near keys, whatever they are, in other words when you put your finger on those hidden areas, it's like having a simultaneous press on the two nearbye arrows. This is needed since with MT you cannot just hold your thumb over both, say, up and right to go diagonally, but you would need to hit them with two different fingers, and that's quite impossible ;)"

fyi: This is already implemented, because I played Crash Bandicoot 3 and needed this feature... :-) Just tap between the arrows. Did you have problems with the "mt shadowing effect"? I tried my best to filter out this hw issue...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
silly me... I tried it and couldn't see it working, and I just needed to go a bit forther with my thumb to hit the sensitive zone :D

But now after I move away enough from the directional arrows, it goes diagonally no problem... it's just farther than what my thumb would normally expect ;)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ralphfx:
I really like playing those old snes games on morphgear and I must say LMT works great with it. However, I have one question.

Classic example: the well known super mario run and jump. Hold left (or right) together with the B button and then press the A button whilst still holding the left and B buttons.

Is this possible to have 3 finger touch (or more fingers)?

-OR- (I was brainstorming a little and it's late, so forgive me if it's a dumb idea)

Is it possible to do the following:

Allow simultaneous pressing of A+B, X+Y, A+B+X+Y (you get the idea) by looking at the AREA of the screen that is in contact with your thumb (or other finger(s)). This would allow you to keep your thumb on the screen and press several "buttons" at once.

Maybe this can be achieved by dividing the control pad into "islands". One dedicated area for the arrow buttons and one for the action buttons
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
I knew this topic would come up... :-) More than two points are not possible (In my opinion due to the hw - but at leat due to driver limitations). But as the invisible sw, nw, se, ne areas, one could do the same thing for the buttons, e.g. hit the area between A and B -> key A and key B are pressed...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] chalid:
the new version is working pretty nice. I have one suggestion though:

there should be a button (like R and X) to deactivate all other touchscreen inputs when using the gamepad. morphgear for example will switch from fullscreenmode to show the windows controls when touching the screen beside one of the LMT buttons, which will result in constant flickering when playing ... :o

another nice thing, perhaps for versions in the more distant future, would be the possibility to align and skin the buttons.

other than that: I love LMT :D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
1) The behavior should be a feature. E.g. the landscape controller: Within the rect "0,200,480,400" the fg app still gets the touch inputs to be "controllable". But I also noticed that sometimes the touchdriver deliveres "ghostvalues" so morphgear switches the mode. :-( I didn't notice this behavior in portrait mode. Perhaps I should deactivate the whole screen for the fg app in landscape mode!?

2) "align and skin the buttons" Aligning is a problem because I positioned the buttons to best hide the hw shadowing effect in addition with a sw filter. Skinning should be easy when I outsource the pngs.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] chalid:
1) I can only speak for myself, but I think deactivating the rest of the screen in LS mode would be more practical. Maybe you can make it optional - like the black- and whitelist (or with an extra button).

2) ok ... skinning is of course better than nothing :D would be nice if you could outsource the LMT processing pics too (which are shown after a gesture).
[Windows Mobile Software Development] danusko:
hi

i have one issue with new v0.7. Rotate gesture assignet do doble right to left doesnt works anymore. :(

anybody else have this experience?

it show icon, but it does nothing

In previous vs. it worked fine.

thx
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
ups, that could be a regression. I changed the rotation behavior for the "rotation awareness" feature. I'll have a look at it this evening...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
+1 on the optional "disable fullscreen touch when LS gamepad is shown", I noticed the fullscreen toggle problem in morphgear too, most evident in action games like mortal kombat, where you hit everywhere.

Regarding the shadowing effect, is it preventing you from positioning the directional buttons in a perfect square proportion, with nw/sw/ne/se areas at 45° orientation, like hojilind's skin for morphgear?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Yes, because I tried a different approach to hide the shadowing effect (sw filter) and it works best with this positioning.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
dang! well your virtual joypad is top notch anyway ;)

There's this shadowing thing which I am not quite very well grasping, yet no matter what, it still is way better than with plain virtual pads!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
If you want to know more about the shadowing issue of our mt hw: http://iihm.imag.fr/publs/2009/ITS2009_Berard_DTMultiTouch.pdf. This is not exactly dedicated to our hw but the fundamental issues are the same...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
Thank you for the reference, I now grasp more of the concept ot MT shadowing, and also imagine how hard it must be for software to track 2x1D data ;)

And I got all this from abstract and selected paragraphs of the article, to avoid major attention leakage if I tried to read everything :D

At least I know enough not to ask you again to implement a square-proportioned virtual dpad :p
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
I think this article also enlightens us, why this type of mt hw is limited to dual touch input via the psoc sw/driver.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
exactly, if it's so incredibly hard to distinguish two touches on a 2x1D screen, then 3 touches are science fiction :D

From what I get in the article, there also should be out there "real" 2D MT screen sensors, probably my next phone will have one :p
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Like the IPhone 4G... :-)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ralphfx:
== going a bit off topic here :) ==

Also read the article here. It's about the DiamondTouch surface, where it's possible to distinguish more than 2 touches. If the article is to hard to read just look up the DiamondTouch hardware on Google. Multiple users using multitouch gestures at the same time.

So, if the touch surface hardware of the HD2 is similar to the DiamondTouch, it's definately possible to have 2+ fingers multitouch, and the two finger limit is because of the touch driver.

Furthermore, it was you who posted that touch.dll has "third finger" detection in another thread >click< But it only gives the 2D location of two touches.

May I ask why you changed your mind on the "third finger"? Because to me it seems like a driver issue.

=== the end :P ===

Anyway, I understand that it's not possible to have 2+ finger detection with the current touch driver :cool:
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
I never said that it is not possible. I had the 3 finger version working here (but only with 2 x/y values as mentioned), because I had the idea to implement 3 finger swipes. :-) That feature would be easy todo, but it would lead to a hacked touch.dll -> not usable for everyone.

If you once understand the hw behind our mt, it is not hard to develop a driver for a big screen which can recognize more than two points ("a large screen, where the touches don't interfere each other"). The problem is beside others the mentioned shadowing effect. The more points you want to recognize, the more those effects you have to deal with. It is even hard to handle it proper with dualtouch... :-) So with our type of hw and our screen size it is not applicable.

As I also said, I did a lot of IDA'ing on the touch.dll and I came to the conclusion, that we cannot archieve more than 2 points without knowing the touch processing in the psoc. This is the place where the magic is done.

Btw: Why did Apple implement a much better mt hw in the iphone? :-(
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ralphfx:
Would be nice "reverse engineering"(or what it's called) on the psoc of the touch hw :rolleyes:

I understand the shadowing effect, quite easy to understand actually, but I didn't realise it has such an impact with the HD2 hardware.

Brings me to another point though, as I mentioned before: if 2+ finger recognition is a problem, can you get information from the touch driver about the surface area of the screen that is touched? With the gamepad in mind -> By looking at the surface area that is touched you could differentiate between just touching one button (small surface area touched, covering only one button), touching two buttons (larger surface area touched, covering two buttons) or touching all four ABXY buttons (even larger surface area touched, covering all four buttons).

I hope you understand what I mean.

(In case my late night brainstorming get's nowhere, just say so :D. But since I do a academic study which also covers image analysis and a lot of programming I tend to find things like this quite interesting. Unfortunately I don't have the time to figure it all out for myself..)

By the way: I don't / didn't know the touch hw on the iphone is better, but imho that's a shame :D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Nice idea, but there is no info about that when the values arrive in touch.dll; or I didn't find it yet. But I think such a processing should be possible with all the raw data in the psoc. Unfortunately this is a blackbox for me and I never saw someone talking about that topic (reverse engineering psoc, etc.).
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Just a small intermediate update for you:

- fixed rotation feature!

- controller button "R" now toggles between: Portrait (fg app touchable) -> Landscape (fg app touchable) -> Portrait (full screen lock) -> Landscape (full screen lock)

- added Mario feature in controller mode: The areas between A and B, C and D and X and Y will lead to both keyevents. When you e.g. run in Mario Bros. with button "C" and jump with button "D" you can run with "C" and then slide your finger right. Then "C" and "D" will be both pressed. Mario will run and jump... :-)

Good night!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] danusko:
thx m8

:)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] a042349:
Great app you've developed here. It really makes up for our lack of HW buttons.

I have two (simple I think) requests.

1. The ability to turn off/disable the pop-up screen graphics of the stroke you just made. Only because it's so very reliable, and it might speed up the response you really want (that action).

2. The ability to create macro key strokes. Mostly I'd love CTRL-C, CTRL-P, CTRL-X for obvious reasons, but there are TONS more that would be really useful. Maybe these could just be options if one doesn't need some of the more common built-in actions.

But irregardless of the above, great app, I'll send a donation soon.

-Joel
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
as I elaborated in another post in this thread, I'd love to have more gestures, so to assign text edit functions to them and uninstall quick menu... but since, while you do gestures, you touch the screen and move the focus around other elements, you lose the selection/cursor position, and those text edit functions would be useless ;)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] a042349:
Ahhhh good explanation thanks. Apologies for not reading the entire thread before posting, just got my HD2 and soooo many cool new toys to learn about and try.

I'll spend some time reading, and see if you've also discussed preventing the "splash" screens when gesturing. :-)

Nice work overall, it's fun to show off to folks. I just use a few gestures frequently, and have the task man mapped to Task Facade. Looks cool to gesture and have that pop up. Very useful app.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Thanks!

Overlays: Because there is more than 1 request to be able to disable the gesture overlays, I'll make that configurable in v0.8...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
weird, I find that overlays are useful, at least I know the gesture has been picked up by LMT. Sometimes it doesn't work because I gestured bad, or triggered another gesture (especially with double arrow either no being picked up, or being picked up as double line down, or delete not being recognized), and I may idle there waiting for the desired effect to happen if I didn't have overlays tell me that LMT did indeed "get the order" ;)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
+1. But if I make it configurable via reg value, you can choose. Default will be "overlays activated".
[Windows Mobile Software Development] a042349:
Exactly. For instance I only use four gestures - taskmanager, prev app, next app, and home and I really don't need overlay feedback it just slows it down a tick or two.

If it's not hard to make things optional, that's usually the most flexible route.

thanks again.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
It is not hard to do: 5min :-)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] a042349:
Thanks man, appreciate the quick responses. I've shipped off my Droid and as soon as the Paypal money hits I'll shoot you a donation.

Keep up the great work.

-Joel
[Windows Mobile Software Development] chris5932:
Hi,

Thanks for your awesome work!

Ill try new 0.7 laterz, Ill see if I can find out if the "Controller Mode" (what ever thats about) is any good.

Thanks
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Tr0LL:
Hmm, is there a reason why I can't get controller mode to work? All the other gestures work fine, but when I try to open controller mode via the square gesture, nothing opens. I've tried it on morphgear and fpsece.

I'm using the energy rom (6.5.5).

edit: nm, I figured it out, you have to make the gesture in a clockwise motion, not counter-clockwise.

edit #2: hmm, I got 2 issues with the controller so far, sometimes when I'm using it, there's a bunch of numbers that appear at the bottom (or the right when in landscape). The numbers get longer and longer as I press buttons (and it has an arrow down to the right of it also). The buttons still register. This happens in both morphgear/fpsece.

the 2nd issue is in fpsece, the controller works great in portrait mode, but when i turn the device into landscape, the controller onscreen overlay disappears. and once in landscape mode, i can't gesture in a square to get the controller back. Even when I put it into landscape mode manually, the same thing happens. I'm not sure if this is a g-sensor issue or a LMT issue, but anyone got any suggestions? Do I have to turn off the g-sensor somehow?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
you may want to verify in your reg keys if the controller mode is actually associated to square, if not just insert the relevent value in that key (check 1st post)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
ah ok, that was the problem. It would be great if you post your feedback regarding the controller mode. Is it better than the builtin controller? Problems, etc... Thanks!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I do have a report to make about the controller. I'm talking about the "proper" 0.7, without the 4-fold rotate command.

When you press X to close it, other than close it your ta alsoa ctivate whatever is under the X, so for example I could open the SIP, or dropdown a menu, or whatever.

Maybe disabling the tap also for the area under the X for the short time needed to close the controller would be nice
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Yes, that's a bug. I deactivate the controller on "button down", so the fg app still gets the "button up" events. I'll fix that (close controller mode on button up event).
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I get it, I can easily make a comparison with webdesign :D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] amousl33t:
This works great on my HD2, I personally enjoyed using the controller feature in morph gear. I tried using the controller on Pocket GBA but the emulator would just freeze up.

Other than that, its a great idea & great program. Good job and many thanks!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
hm, I never tried PocketGBA. Does the emulator freeze when you activate the controller? Or do you have a general problem with PocketGBA?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] chrisnash:
Anyone got a good way of launching WiFi?

I've got bluetooth covered by mapping the relevant reg key to ToggleBTh.exe but I can't find a similar .exe that works for WiFi for HD2.

I tried to map it to WiFi Toggle.lnk in Windows>Start Menu>Programs but the doesn't work understandably.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
I'm using HD2 connexions:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=601203

You can extract the Wifi.exe from the cab-file or install the whole set of "tools".
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
+1 ;)

exact same thing I did, installed Marcdu81 hd2connections, and double arrow right -> wifi toggle, double arrow left -> BT toggle
[Windows Mobile Software Development] chrisnash:
Nice one! Many thanks. Hadn't thought of that.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] amousl33t:
Pocket GBA doesnt have a virtual keypad (well only A and B). It allows me to map the directional keys to each virtual key on LMT but when I activate the controller the video stops paying but the audio continues. I can play and can hear the game sounds responding to my touches of the controller but the video remains frozen at the position where I activated the controller.

Maybe the HD2 cant handle both programs?

I played gba using morph gear but it the audio was terrible, pocket gba actually makes a decent attempt at emulating the audio.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
I downloaded PocketGBA and tried to play a game. As you said, the video freezes when you activate LMTs controller. I guess that LMTs overlay controller interferes with the rendering technique used by PocketGBA. :-(

Btw: Did you try the trial version of morphgears GBA module?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] amousl33t:
I initially tired the GBA module for morph gear but playing without sound was saddening.

I found that the Pocket GBA would work properly if I set the video output to be horizontally. The only problem was mapping the right keys to the LMT controller since it assigned the same value for different LMT keys.

I guess I'll stick to PC gba emulation for now. Or soon enough the guys at Pocketgba will release a virtual keyboard.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] ephestione:
I had the exact same problem while trying to get morphgear to handle the button assigning "on the fly". In the end I had to manually edit the reg keys for the hardware buttons from LMT, and now it works. You probably need to do the same in pocketgba, you just need to find the reg keys which control that. It's worth the time spent ;)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vanzelvoul:
Oh my god your app is SICK@@@!!!!!

Is there a way when you perform the gesture not to show the icon of the gesture??
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Thanks! Just a new small update (changes compared to v0.7):

- fixed rotation feature

- controller button "R" now toggles between: Portrait (fg app touchable) -> Landscape (fg app touchable) -> Portrait (full screen lock) -> Landscape (full screen lock)

- added Mario feature in controller mode: The areas between A and B, C and D and X and Y will lead to both keyevents. When you e.g. run in Mario Bros. with button "C" and jump with button "D" you can run with "C" and then slide your finger right. Then "C" and "D" will be both pressed. Mario will run and jump... :-)

- fixed rotate and exit button in controller mode (no interference with fg app)

- added dword reg value "ShowOverlay": 0=overlays deactivated, 1=overlays activated with default time, >1=overlays activated with custom time (ms)

So you can add a new dword under HKCU\Software\LMT to deactivate the overlays.

Btw: I saw a post here on XDA, that LMTs controller has a delay compared to the builtin controller from morpgear/FPSEce. I tested it and I cannot see any difference!? So can someone please test that? Perhaps it is ROM-related (e.g. different prios for other apps/threads)? LMT uses another multitouch approach than every other app I saw for the Leo. This approach should be a little bit faster. On the other side LMT needs a little bit "cpu" for value filtering to hide the shadowing effect. In the end LMTs controller should be as fast as the buitin controller.

edit: new version with fixed "deactivate overlays"

edit2: new version with feature "gestures deactivated when SIP is active"
[Windows Mobile Software Development] manusfreedom:
It doesn't work for me.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Just retested the feature with the uploaded version: no problems. Did you exchange LMT.exe (\program files\lmt\) and did you add a new dword \HKCU\Software\LMT\ShowOverlay "0"?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] manusfreedom:
The LMT.exe date is 2010-04-08 22:00.

Here my reg settings:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LMT]
"ShowOverlay"=dword:00000000
"RightToLeftLineDouble"="prevApp"
"LeftToRightLineDouble"="nextApp"
"Square"="Phone"
"BottomToTopLineDouble"="\\Program Files\\Resco Today Plugin\\RTasks.exe"
"QuestionmarkDouble"="\\program files\\spb mobile shell\\mobileshell.exe"
"SingleTouchGestureSupport"=dword:00000000
"TopToBottomLineDouble"="home"
"WhiteListBack"=hex(7):5C,00,57,00,69,00,6E,00,64,00,6F,00,77,00,73,00,5C,00,4F,00,70,00,65,\
00,72,00,61,00,39,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,5C,00,50,00,72,00,6F,00,\
67,00,72,00,61,00,6D,00,20,00,46,00,69,00,6C,00,65,00,73,00,5C,00,4F,00,70,\
00,65,00,72,00,61,00,20,00,4D,00,6F,00,62,00,69,00,6C,00,65,00,20,00,31,00,\
30,00,5C,00,4F,00,70,00,65,00,72,00,61,00,31,00,30,00,2D,00,61,00,72,00,6D,\
00,76,00,34,00,69,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,00,00
"TapAndHoldGestureSupport"=dword:00000000
"SquareDouble"="CloseLMT"
"Delete"="Lock"
"ControllerVibrate"=dword:00000000
"ControllerKeys"="40,38,37,39,13,12,96,97,98,99,100,101"
"BlackListSwitch"=hex(7):73,00,68,00,65,00,6C,00,6C,00,33,00,32,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,\
00,72,00,65,00,70,00,6C,00,6C,00,6F,00,67,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,\
63,00,70,00,72,00,6F,00,67,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,6D,00,61,00,6E,\
00,69,00,6C,00,61,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,00,00
"BlackListClose"=hex(7):5C,00,57,00,69,00,6E,00,64,00,6F,00,77,00,73,00,5C,00,6D,00,61,00,6E,\
00,69,00,6C,00,61,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,5C,00,57,00,69,00,6E,00,\
64,00,6F,00,77,00,73,00,5C,00,73,00,68,00,65,00,6C,00,6C,00,33,00,32,00,2E,\
00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,5C,00,57,00,69,00,6E,00,64,00,6F,00,77,00,73,00,\
5C,00,67,00,77,00,65,00,73,00,2E,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,00,00
"ArrowRightDouble"="nextApp"
"ArrowLeftDouble"="prevApp"
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anthnhlt:
Rotate

I changed the Delete value with was initially "LOCK" to Rotate. But what I give the command nothing happens. delete was the single triangle correct? What am I doing wrong?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] a042349:
I definitely have that reg key (dword=0) and downloaded the latest April 08 interim LMT.exe file but I cannot get the overlays to disable.

Anybody have any ideas?

Thx.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Sorry, I found the small bug and uploaded the new version to the old post:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=6124010&postcount=349

Can you please retest the feature? Thanks!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] noname81:
Do you see the overlay? It is not a single triangle. See the attached screenshot (green line!). Does it work now?