yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] WhyBe:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.

If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?

All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:

1)

No iTunes.

Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.

2)

User-experience less than iPhone's.

The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.

3)

Single form factor.

Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.

Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.

I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.

If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.

EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect ;)

(though not all is perfect)

Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid ;)

You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.
[HD2 General] laserviking:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.

"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here :)
[HD2 General] Spike15:
Basically this.

Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.

Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.

And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.

The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.

Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.

Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.

So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?

Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.

Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.

If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.

iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.

Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.

And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.

Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.

Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.

Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.

If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.

Get out.

You mean lock-in?
[HD2 General] kel16harris:
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.

^^^^^zune marketplace says hello :p
[HD2 General] aceo07:
I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.

I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.
[HD2 General] anaadoul:
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.

If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking :eek: it's not an OS, it's a frimware :D

I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.

btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
[HD2 General] mightymn:
lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?

I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?

I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.

And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.

About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when

a) people complain about things that are pure speculation

b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing

@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey ;)

(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)

Btw. those are worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4
[HD2 General] Gustopher:
@freyberry

In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.

So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?
[HD2 General] XDA mark:
Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7 :)

I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.

At the best:

- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...

A GOOD APPSTORE.

If all goes wrong...:

- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.

-------------------------

In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:

- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.

- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.

- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.

That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.

And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.

Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!
[HD2 General] freyberry:
@Gustopher

Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.

I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.

After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.

Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes. :(

WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
[HD2 General] Gustopher:
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.

So maybe waiting is the best tactic...
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.

(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)

Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....

...OK, here we go:

Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/

Flame on! Hahahaha... :D
[HD2 General] anaadoul:
i don't like that!

let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.

no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid :)

@freyberry

how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).
[Touch CDMA General] myn:
I am having issues with the Market today.

I tried two separate test accounts in between system wipes and I can't download a thing.

Anyone else having similar issues?

Edit: Apparently I am not alone:

Link 1, Link 2
[Touch CDMA General] incubus26jc:
i havent tried this yet . i will now. i was gonna ask why start a new thread but since its you myn, I wouldnt dare. Im using your build and it is fantastic. I will nevr question you. lol
[Touch CDMA General] tmcfarland:
You are not alone ... +1 on Polaris using Haret with Plemen's AOSP HeroBlend
[Touch CDMA General] JM-PDA:
Android Market download problem

Same here.

It show "Starting download", but never actually gets going.

It just hangs there.

I had this problem for the last few days.

I did several fresh reinstalls with no luck.

THEN... just a few minutes ago I successfully started downloading again!

Try it and see if it now works for you as well.

Good luck!
[Touch CDMA General] golfnz34me:
I am now able to download from the market. Problem was apparently on their end.
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xsirhc6x:
which is sooo cool, i mean im always texting while walking, and i dont get very far constantly looking up and down!

i thought this was the coolest idea ever

anyone heard of this for android?

or anyone smart enough to add it to handcent!?

all i know is that this phone should be able to handle it
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shelnes:
Here's a walk and text app for android

Edit: There's also a free alternative in market called "typo and walk for android)
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xsirhc6x:
thanks!

il give the free one a try ;)
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shelnes:
No problem! Hope it works for you
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xsirhc6x:
yes it doess, but maybe il try the paid one..

after you type using the free one you click send, then you have to click what program to use to send the text... once you get in your program of choice, you no longer have the video background and you still have to go through and choose a contact and stuff...

so the free ones pretty pointless but thanks again
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shelnes:
Hehehe... S**t happens. I'm not much of a walk and text at the same time guy myself. I'm going for safety first. Walk - Stop - Text aka WST!:D
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xsirhc6x:
truue, cool idea though
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shelnes:
Yeah! But I'm so absent-minded that I can only focus on one task at the time. Not even a small possibility that I could be able to look at the camera view and text at the same time. *LOL*
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xsirhc6x:
when i tried it out, thats exactly what i noticed lmao, i was busy making sure i didnt make a mistake, and wasnt looking at the background aahah
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] shelnes:
Yeah! The idea of the app sounds really smart, but the app it self; A NO-GO!

Had to try it myself, just out of curiosity
[Hero, G2 Touch Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xsirhc6x:
hahaha yepp
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Macrophage001:
Just a quick question.

How can you tell which SPL you have?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TeeJay3800:
Turn the phone off, and then turn it back on while holding power and the camera button until it enters the bootloader. If you have the 4-color rainbow background, that's the stock SPL. If you see three skateboard things, that's HardSPL. I'm not sure what the Haykuro/Danger SPL looks like.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] flexnix:
Hmm, yesterday I went from Hard SPL to Danger SPL to throw on Eclair. I didn't like Eclair so I'm going back to CM. Can I flash from Danger to Hard without an issue?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bubonik:
Just keep 1.33.2005, it wont affect you.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Macrophage001:
So I guess I have the Danger SPL since it says 1.33.2005 right?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TeeJay3800:
That is correct.
[HD2 General] laserviking:
Just wondering if this is theoretically possible / has it been done?
[HD2 General] BLAST3RR:
No.

:)
[HD2 General] laserviking:
<Borat voice>But why not?</Borat voice>
[HD2 General] wacky.banana:
See this thread...http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=617423

Best to post in there.

WB
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] WaterMan!:
Hey guys

Which ROM is faster, Cursorsense or the official rogers Sense UI update?
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] FoTwoZero:
Rogers is: verified
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] WaterMan!:
Alright thanks..

Can you tell me how to upgrade to the rogers ROM without getting the perfected SPL (Or link to a thread)

*Edit*

Also side-question : I have contacts on my HTC Magic (Running Cursorsense). I want to sync some contacts from my phone to my google account in case i switch ROMs so i can sync them back. Whenever i manually sync, the contacts dont appear in my GMAIL. How can i sync the phones contacts to gmail?
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] visitador02:
You can't yet. That is why CurseSense exist...and why those who upgraded to the official Rogers Rom with perfected SPL are desperately trying to get the attention of a developer.

Regarding sync of contacts, doesn't your phone have an option to sync all contact groups under preferences? That should match your phone's internal contacts to the google group contacts, right?
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] KAwAtA:
Im pretty sure you can upgrade without perfect spl lol just be careful doing it :)
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] pyee0124:
I find that my battery drains A LOT faster with Roger's Sense. I have no problems with Cursor, though.
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] sindrefyrn:
Can't you unpack the file and get the system files? Could you tell me how the update is? Is it RUU? Is it sappimg?
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] Hedake:
Hello,

I am a noob at this so please bear with me.

I have a Telus TP2 and I have unlocked it using the software provided by Olipro.

My objective is to switch my network over to Telus' new UMTS network, using one of their sim cards. Right now it is functioning on Telus' CDMA network.

My question is: Do I need to flash a new Radio to accomplish this? My phone still has the 2.05.00 WV radio on it now. I just need to know if I need to go get a WU radio in order to use Telus' new network.

Thanks in advance.
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] gamescan:
The Telus TP2 supports UMTS 2100.

Telus uses UMTS 850/1900 for its 3G network.

In order to get the TP2 running on the UMTS network you'll want to grab a ATT GSM variant from the states and unlock that.

IIRC, Telus is jumping straight to WCDMA/UMTS so it won't be supporting the standard GSM bands. If that's the case, then your Telus TP2 variant won't have anything to lock onto when it is in "GSM Mode."
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] Hedake:
Ah dang, I guess I didn't really need to unlock the sim on my phone then because it won't work on Telus' UMTS network...

Oh well, if I decide to go back to Rogers I believe that the Telus TP2 will operate on their GSM network.

Follow up question:

Do I need to get an unlocked Radio to use the Telus TP2 on Rogers' GSM network or will the 2.05.00WV one that I have on now work?
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] kennysp:
yes, you'll need a WU unlocked radio in order to access GSM radios in the states, and canada as well, i believe.

You can find the link here:

xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=578659
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] gamescan:
It depends on the specific radio firmware in the device.

If it is like the Sprint TP2, then yes, you would need a separate radio. Sprint does not SIM lock its TP2, however it ships them with crippled radio software which has the 850/1900 GSM bands disabled so that it won't work with US GSM carriers (it simply doesn't see the network).

If it is like the Verizon TP2, then no, you would not need a separate radio, though you would need a SIM unlock. Verizon doesn't cripple the radio software in its TP2. It simply uses a traditional SIM lock.

I've heard that the Telus TP2 is like the Sprint model, but I've not seen one to verify.

If you're not sure, then you can always flash the unlocked radio (assuming you're using the unlock software from Oli) and it'll work.
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] Hedake:
Hey thanks for the information gamescan. I scoured the Telus Mobility website and tried to find information about their new netowork but they just call it HSPA+. No where does it mention that it is UMTS or GSM. Oh well, now I know a little bit more about cell phone tech.

I don't even know if theres any real benefit to being on Telus' UMTS network compared to their CDMA. Im sure there has to be something....
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] gamescan:
Quick 3G primer:

W-CDMA and UMTS are the name of the tech. It's also referred to as FOMA in Japan. Phones generally standardize on the UMTS name, so when you're poking around in your phone and see UMTS followed by a number, that indicates the frequency band that the phone will run on in 3G.

HSDPA, HSUPA and HSPA+ are all further revisions to UMTS. They allow for greater speeds on existing infrastructure so long as both the handset and tower support it.

A rough CDMA equivalent would be EVDO and EVDO Rev A. Older UMTS handsets will still work on a HSPA+ network, they just won't run on HSPA+ speeds the same as a EVDO handset will work on a Rev A network, just not at Rev A speeds.

UMTS is often referred to as "GSM" though that is a misnomer. GSM and UMTS are two separate (but concurrent) technologies. While they often exist together on networks that have been GSM and upgraded, they do not have to exist together. You can have a situation where a UMTS network exists but an underlying GSM "2G" network does not.

The most well known example of this is in Japan where GSM never rolled out, but in your case, where Telus is adding UMTS to an existing CDMA2000 network, is similar.

From a user perspective, there is no real reason for you to want to run UMTS over EVDO on Telus. Telus should have greater EVDO coverage so that's what you'll be wanting.

If you really want to run on the Telus UMTS network, look for an ATT branded Touch Pro 2 and get that. Of course that will not run on the Telus EVDO network.
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] Hedake:
Thank you again sir! I appreciate the replies.

Just curious about one thing, if Telus' new UMTS network isn't really any better than their CDMA right now, then why do they promote it as such a big deal?

I think I read that in order to evolve into the next big cellphone phase (forget the name) that this UTMS network was necessary but why would anyone care what network they are on as of today?

Also, do you know why CDMA is not the "way of the future" so to speak? I know Telus spent millions upgrading and putting in new towers all over...maybe I should go google this stuff lol.
[Touch Pro2 CDMA] gamescan:
The future is LTE (which is neither CDMA or GSM).

As for why Telus made a hop to UMTS before going to LTE, I couldn't tell you.

All I can envision is that Telus is looking to be more compatible globally with Europe and Japanese business travellers. It may also be a strategic decision to open up compatibility with more possible phone manufacturers.

Putting 1XRTT CDMA + EVDO + UMTS into a phone is an engineering pain. Adding in multiple frequency support (and properly tuning the antenna) is also a pain. HTC aside, many manufacturers are supporting GSM/UMTS because that's what carriers have. The biggest CDMA markets are the US, Canda and South Korea. While it is a lot of people, it also requires another phone variant.

By overlaying a UMTS network, Telus can suddenly work with any handset that supports UMTS 850/1900. That's what's used by ATT in the US. UMTS 850 is also popular in Australia while Europe and Japan use UMTS 2100. T-Mobile US uses UMTS 1700. Many UMTS phones offer tri-band UMTS 850/1900/2100 support. With one of those phones you can run on just about any current UMTS network in the world (excepting T-Mobile US).

Again, this is just conjecture on my part, but they are possible reasons.