yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
In your OP you say the screen is a specific type that doesn't support it... general user experience of an app in BETA stage isn't a good way to determine that...

Do you have any other reason to claim the hardware of the N1 does not support multi-touch?
[Nexus One General] xManMythLegend:
OP has zero clue what hes talking about.

He contradicts himself several times.

Theres MT visualizer as mentioned and theres numerous fingerpaint drawing apps that let you do 2 fingers at the same time.

Why not start a post with N1 doesnt have a true trackball.
[Nexus One General] grainysand:
The trackball is a lie!
[Nexus One General] Uejji:
There could be some merit to this statement. The form of multitouch the touchscreen on the G1 and Magic (perhaps more, but I'm not sure) used was capable of "2x1d" positioning. That is, if you touched the screen in two places, it knew the two x coordinates being touched and the two y coordinates being touched, but had to way of correlating which x was paired to which y... this was handled in software.

This was fine for pinch gestures, but recall in Luke Hutchison's videos where he showed that the software could become confused and pair the x and y incorrectly, which would lead to the system registering the opposite corners of the touch "box" between your fingers.

You can still see the effect today on some multitouch applications in the Market on the Nexus One. Like multitouch pong or the multitouch plugin for ethereal dialpad. In each case, the software can directly determine the initial touch points usually, but when points cross in the x or y axis they will "snap" together in that axis, and when moving from that position may become confused. This makes games like Multitouch Pong unusable on the Nexus One because it is just not reliable. However I have no way of knowing if this is a hardware limitation or a limitation in the touch software, and nobody has really talked about it.

This is contrasted to the iphone, whose touch screen allows it to keep track of touch points as two (x,y) coordinates without any sort of axis snapping.
[Nexus One General] pjcforpres:
It is software... even the iPhone has issues with tracking the X,Y pairs when they run into one another, but they have 3 generations of of software developement to help sort it all out. Even with that, you can still confuse the iPhone's multi-touch... make an "X" shape on the scren by running your fingers togther than apart in two "V" shapes, and 99% of the the time it will register it is two seperate lines crossing, and not two actual V's... as well, if you try to cross your fingers it can get even crazier!

The N1 does have a ways to go in terms of multi-touch software and app support to catch up to the iPhone, but I don't see anywhere that supports the claim it is a hardware limitation.
[Nexus One General] hypersonicx:
Stylus...

Im sorry but resistant touch screens are the worse screen to be on. Typing on a resistance touch screen is the worst experience ever. Go try a Samsung Omnia I or HTC Touch Diamond.

If your on a all screen device with no keyboard, capacitive is the way to go. Its obvious that the OP doesnt know what he is talking about or doesnt have past experience with resistant touch screens.

If your fingers too big and you need a stylus thats your problem, not a problem of the device.
[Nexus One General] balabok:
The Nexus One uses a Synaptics ClearPad 2000 touch screen.
[Nexus One General] supergodie:
So, the nexus one is only dualtouch and the iphone is multitouch :(
[Nexus One General] dnts:
Thank you guys for flaming me... but that will not change the fact the our N1s have a simple surface capacitance touch screen that has the ability to distinguish up to 2 fingers provided that they don't cross axis with each other (i.e. each finger stays in it's perimeter so either X or Y axis don't align).

I've designed several touch pads and other touch solutions in the past few years and have pending patents on that technology. You can say what you'd like about my lack of experience - ha - it will not change anything and I couldn't care less.

You can check out this patent application (soon to be granted, I hope):

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0046827.html

So believe me guys and gals - it ain't no multi-touch and don't expect to have multi tocuh capabilities. Pinch to zoom.. maybe rotate... or some 2-finger flicking... that's all. No good and working multi touch keyboard.. no piano or guitar app... simply cannot be done with this hardware...

That said, this hardware provides better accuracy, lower power consumption and is free of patent issues (Apple's multi touch is heavily patent protected).
[Nexus One General] htcmagic:
it is multitouch for me, and you can say what you want. Maybe you should write an article in iphone fanboy sites like engadget and gizmodo, because they would love to hear your scientific findings.

Maybe you could sell your technology to apple or microsoft.

Everyday, since the launch of Nexus, and especially after the OTA there is a scientist picking up no Nexus, because people cannot comprehend that it is better than their iphone. They got stack with steve jobs talking crap about icrap technologies and now cannot bear the shock.

Keep walking, Johnnie Walker.
[Nexus One General] balabok:
Dual touch (two finger) IS multitouch. The common definition of mutitouch is more that one finger. The Iphone is rumored to use the same screen. Apple doesn't reveal it's suppliers.
[Nexus One General] supergodie:
Guys I was looking the synaptic webpage and I found this :

ww.synaptics.com/about/press/press-releases/synaptics-clearpad-on-nexus-one-smartphone

Nexus one has a CLEARpad 2000 capacitive touch screen sensor, so it's dual touch , the clearpad 3000 it has support for multitouch :(.

So the nexus one doesn't have multitouch only has dual touch :( ...

I was testing the piano application from Iphone and It's recognize a lot of points on the screen , anybody know which hardware display have the iphone? .

PD: I sold my iphone 3GS and now I have a nexus one .

Sorry, my english is bad :( .
[Nexus One General] dnts:
Well.. you obviosly don't want to understand what I am saying and if you are a happy camper with your N1 - so be it.. I will not ruin the fun for you...

But the Clearpad 2000 technology is lacking. We all know the palm wrapping problem offsetting our finger touch if we don't hold the device careful enough... root cause of this is HW and software may ease things up slightly but cannot rid of that problem (which is #1 problem with N1 screen for me).

I never owned an iPhone. I don't like anything Apple.. don't like being a fanboy either. Not for WinMo and not for Android.

I like my N1. A leap from the HD. A keeper for me. But that doesn't stop me from pointing out stuff when I see it.

All the best...
[Nexus One General] Eclair~:
I

I for one, find this all very interesting, and from the sounds of it, this guy knows his stuff and it seems pretty factual.

People, its not exactly a bad thing the N1 doesn't have true-multitouch, it is not as if the average consumer will realize this. They will look at whatever involves two fingers as exactly what the iPhone has.

Exactly why though would we need multiple fingers on the screen, other than two? I guess for things such as piano and guitar, but I do not believe this would contribute to many other things..
[Nexus One General] w00yee:
" today announced that the Nexus One™ phone uses its ClearPad™ 2000 capacitive touchscreen sensor."

So sad to see that ... I would rather pay an extra 50 bucks for a ClearPad 3000 if 50 is enough, though so far 2 fingers response is enough for me :D Hope the 2000 is not the source of the touch screen problem.

Looking forward to see info about the chip that N1 uses: "T1007A, 2 0927, AMP08P"
[Nexus One General] Glithramir:
Oh no! Can I only use two fingers with my Nexus One?

Now I must sell it and buy something better... I must use at least three fingers when using the facebook app! An playing the piano on my phone is something i wish to do every day. :p

Seriously guys... Even if the Nexus has single touch it beats every phone out there today imho. Stop whining what it could have been and just be happy and have some fun with it... =)
[Nexus One General] Dorick:
now i think we all need to chill a little, the man brings up a certainly valid point, i think he defines multi touch as more than 2, whereas most of us just think of it as being well.. more than one. You guys are arguing with different definitions, which will probably get you no where. He's just raising awareness of a potential issue, and is in no way saying this is a deal breaker, so I think calling him an apple fan boy may be a little extreme, also the palm touching screen problem is very real, and from the sounds of it might be due to the relatively old technology our touchscreen is based on.

Now honestly I don't see the point for having more than 2 fingers most of the time, but i can see it being useful when we run emulators with onscreen controls, like on the HD2, accurate multi (more than 2) finger recognition would be useful.

Sorry for the wall of text, I love my nexus one, and i'm sure most of you do too, but i don't think there's a need to burn the man on a stake for pointing out some facts (I myself can't vouch for him, I have no experience in touchscreens, but what he seems to know what he's saying).
[Nexus One General] bobtentpeg:
Pissing contests work great on the internet. Just hope your compuer is waterproof
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Who the heck cares about multitouch keyboards?

We have speech to text, learn to use it? :D
[Nexus One General] Funkym0nkey:
multi-

a combining form meaning “many,” “much,” “multiple,” “many times,” “more than one,” “more than two,” “composed of many like parts,” “in many respects,” used in the formation of compound words: multiply; multivitamin.

Take a pick. Sheesh...:rolleyes:

People love fixating on trivial things.
[Nexus One General] Uejji:
Well I feel one of the main problems isn't in just being dual touch, but just in how the dual touch is handled, which again isn't really clear whether it's a software or hardware problem.

We cannot do keyboard chording as it stands because there is too much axis snapping going on. Also a game like multitouch pong would be really awesome if it worked correctly. It doesn't need more than two touches, but the axis snapping and touch point confusion just ruins it.

If it's software (that is, the current touch driver is written around the constraints of the G1 hardware) then it's fine because it can be fixed through updates later. However, if it's a hardware limitation then that's kind of sad I think.

Please don't get me wrong, however. I own a Nexus One and it's the best mobile device I've ever used. I love it to death and I'd never trade it for anything else except a better Android phone.
[Nexus One General] dnts:
The problem as far as I am concerned as a user is not the various gestures the N1 can handle - I'd rather operate the device with one hand than to be able to pull all those stunts with my fingers. The problem is that this technology has one major drawback which is palm rejection. Coming from years of resistive touchpad use - I was used to holding a device in a certain way which is no longer valid. The capacitive touchpad is very sensitive even to unnoticable pressure. A true multi-touch (call it full matrix or projected capacitance) can easily reject the palm touch and focus only on fingers touch, whereas the Clearpad2000 cannot discern between the fingers and the palm, going for the one that has stronger touch (larger area of touch) which at times will be the palm rather than the finger.
[Nexus One General] Amdathlonuk:
Fair point, the OP does indeed know's his stuff, you can't flame him for pointing it out.

I agree with the above though, I'm happy with 2 fingers, if anything takes more than that it usually involves my wife... :D
[Nexus One General] Amdathlonuk:
double post .... Grrrr
[Nexus One General] Kit:
It's true it has a Clearpad 2000 series, but im pretty sure the iphone has the same one.

3000 serious sounds costly and was only introduced mid last year around the same time the 3gs was released so its really doubtful, let alone the 3g which is ancient.

Just think about it guys and stop stressing =P

I doubt the ipad even has a 3000 series =_=;
[Nexus One General] indiearmy:
Who cares, it's a 800x480 AMOLED screen covered in Gorilla glass. Does the iPhone have that?
[Nexus One General] htcmagic:
I am thinking of writing Google a letter of complaint because:

1) I cannot use more than 2 fingers to compose songs, and i cannot have all the famous composers taking me for a ride. I thought buying nexus was having a synthesizer keyboard too.

2)I cannot use more than 2 fingers to paint. What i was after was a phone to be able to assign a color on each finger and paint having all color blend into each other. I wanted to be greater that Picasso and now my skills are restricted.

Also i am thinking to write a letter to apple. I am sure they will tell me i will become a Picasso or a music composer as long as i have icrap something and use 10 fingers.:D
[Nexus One General] Wysie:
Some of you guys are plain trolls. dnts was in no way whining, just stating a fact hoping to inform the community. Yes, 2-finger is generally considered multi-touch, and you can fault dnts for that, but if you bothered to read at all you'd know what dnts was referring to was > 2 point tracking.

I too, am happy with the N1, even if it's just 2-finger tracking, but there is no need to sound smart and flame someone who's just bringing across his point.
[Nexus One General] dnts:
Thanks for the heads up.

Every PDA/smartphone I had to date had it's shortcomings... The original Ipaq3650 couldn't handle more than one key press at a time (HW limit). Never a deal breaker but something to take into consideration both with expectations from a device and the day by day usage (I learned how to grab the N1 so that my palm is away from the screen).
[Nexus One General] metamorph8:
Come on guys, at least read and understand the opening post and discussion before you come in flaming and fanboying. As mentioned, dnts wasn't trying to knock the N1, he was trying to bring something to our attention.

Leave the fanboying and flaming at the door, please.
[Nexus One General] xManMythLegend:
His first post was innacurate , and he referenced resistive screens being better.

Thats liable to cause some backlash no matter how well intended.
[Nexus One General] dnts:
Well - that is NOT what I said... I said I wish they stayed with resistive touchpad becasue I find it more suitable for ME. Never said one is better that the other for ANYONE - just ME.
[Nexus One General] bassam:
Encyclopedia

what is this all about, Piano, Paint, Screen, Muti, Camera, or flying toaster screen saver :D ....

This is a professional Phone, it is an ICON and the only of its kind , it is not to compare it with any other phones.

If I want professional Piano,camera , .... I buy one and so on .

This is an encyclopedia and developing forums and i appreciate any person who spend time and effort to bring us a knowledge , they are hero's

So i thank all who bring us up to date informations and knowledge and the developer of the N1 , they are awesome.

watch this

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/07/nexus-one-video-series-part-two-google-schools-us-on-oled-disp/

and this

http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/news/100114/google-nexus-one-screen-scratch-test
[Nexus One General] xManMythLegend:
I never stated how many people you thought it was better for.

Just the fact you said resistive is better was going to get you bad feedback.
[Nexus One General] cyanogen:
Interestingly, there is a hack in the framework (which is enabled on the Droid, but not on the N1) that can be enabled by setting config_filterTouchEvents. With it disabled (the default), I get the axis-flipping problem. Enabling it fixes this, but there are still issues with the points "sticking" when they cross.
[Nexus One General] dnts:
Hey man! Big honor you jumping in to comment in my thread. Big fan of your work (and always up to date with the latest).

When you place 2 fingers on a 2-way touchpad what the sensor read is 2 peaks of touch in the X axis and 2 in the Y axis. This yields 4 combinations, only 2 out of which are true and the other 2 are phantom.. There are a few methods to try and tell them apart. One would be to correlate touch "pressure". The other would be to correlate movement of peaks in X and Y axis... But when axes cross you loose all that extra info... which leads to "sticking" phenomena.

But in light of yesterday's Apple lawsuit.. not infringing the multi-touch patents probably saved HTC some 20-something cases....
[Nexus One General] gururise:
Would be great to see a new video with the config_filterTouchEvents enabled on the N1. Anyone? :)

By the way, this is front page news over at AndroidandMe
[Nexus One General] dextroz:
Where did you read it is Gorilla Glass?

AFAIK the claim was that it is NOT Gorilla Glass.
[Nexus One General] dextroz:
If you guys are looking for the BEST keyboard replacement google 'swype' for Nexus One and get it.

It will be faster than multi-touch keyboards :-)
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
There has never been a single official statement ever from either Google or HTC that the Nexus One has or does not have Gorilla Glass.
[Nexus One General] dextroz:
your logic has a fallacy. by your chain of reasoning the nexus one also needs a shower everyday.

jokes apart, if it had gorilla glass they would have probably mentioned it ahead of talking about the teflon coating.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
You said "AFAIK the claim was that it is NOT Gorilla Glass."

So where is this supposed "claim" coming from? Can you provide a link? Didn't think so.

Also, absence of proof is NOT proof of absence.
[Nexus One General] flarbear:
I just wanted to point out that when the axes cross you lose any prior correlation data, but you can still use the pressures to potentially tell them apart as you say. So, you only lose half of the "extra info" (albeit probably the more reliable "half").
[Nexus One General] bobdude5:
i am really dissappointed in htc..im looking at my nexus one and it just doesnt appeal to me anymore :/..seriously google and htc need to step it up and make android more opengl friendly..i really really miss those games on the itunes appstore
[Nexus One General] paratox:
omg, for me a smart phone is never a gaming device! without hardware buttons the most games are ****ty. especially the emulators. and there is no difference if it`s dual or multi touch. some puzzle games a nice with touch screen only, but there you need no multi touch.
[Nexus One General] ~~Tito~~:
Can a mod delete the crap from this thread? Its not a lot but it ruins the info you need when you read.

Anyways, if the iPhone does supposedly have the same sensor, then what we need is to compare what happens(sw side, similar to what Cyanogen brought up) when you touch the screen with more than two* fingers and then do the same on the Nexus, and find a workable or definite solution. All this rabble is getting us no where lol.

[Side note: For some reason all these little things that crop up makes me want the Nexus less, then I slap myself and drool over it again]
[Nexus One General] Gslick:
I truly enjoy how bloggers and these little websites grab every little negative thing they can, it's like apple sent them mail that read "if you can find me some negative stuff about this nexus one, yes the phone that destroys our apple iphone in every way possible, we will be mailing you a check so big, you wont need to blog ever again". Users why do we care? you are all aware that this is the best device you layed your hands on, oh wait, my nexus one, doesn't have an app that cures ACNE like the Iphone does? ROFLMAO did you forget why apple has so many apps and so much more things? because 90% of those extra things are "USELESS" android and htc seem to be very attracted to giving use to our phones, I know children that use their ilimitedslavery for calls only, which by the way nexus one is also better when it comes to quality and stability of a call with Tmobile but wait they pay over 100-120 a month. I pay 65 with my nexus one with more than what I need, and I find myself using my phone to replace and use as; A pc, a radio, haven't even used my expensive garmin GPS in a while, a newspaper, great calling (phone experience), etc ON A DAILY BASIS, so ok you win Iphone I can cure your mothers ACNE or play a fake guitar to impress the girl who told me she will only allow me in her pants if I have a fake digital guitar. YOU WIN! I LOSE!

P.S BY ALL MEANS please continue to use your "itakeyouroptionsaway phone" while I enjoy mine for half the monthly cost. Btw, anyone wants to drop their unprotected iphone 3GS and a Nexus one from the same Height to see which one is more durable? HTC CARES ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS AND MONEY.

APPLE CARES ABOUT MONEY AND MONEY.

I'm not flaming the kid with the interesting point, but these damn bloggers and sites can suck a huge one. Oh wait, Iphone has an app to suck huge ones on the market, probably only 15 dollars, sick.
[Nexus One General] blackgin:
Genius. xP
[Nexus One General] karnovaran:
Guys, I hate the iPhone as much as any of you but this touchscreen evidence is pretty damning. It's too bad HTC and Google continue to jerk us around with underspec'd hardware. First the RAM robbery of the MyTouch, now this.
[Nexus One General] GnillGnoll:
Filtering can only do so much. Unless the hardware is able to properly detect both x and y position of a touch at the same time there will always be some cases of incorrect touch positions.

I suppose what the sensor in the N1 does is detect touches on the x and y axes separately, then the software tries to correlate them by determining which touches were added at the same time. By estimating touch positions from previous touch positions, size/pressure, and velocities, filtering could potentially get two touches right most of the time, but it would still sometimes get it wrong, especially if there are sudden changes in movement direction or pressure.
[Nexus One General] keet:
I prefer a stylus over my finger. Styli don't leave fingerprints, and they are more precise. I have a X51v that works very nicely with a resistive screen. If I have a stylus, I don't need to worry that I've been eating, or touching snow, or have wet fingers, et cetera.
[Nexus One General] lolittle:
I new ther was summet up with the N1s touchscreen when i played two player multitouch games and the multitouch jus didnt work

Now i know its because HTC n google went cheap on the screen :| .. typical

I Love the phone but hate the fact i cant actually use true multitouch games :(

and for all the sceptics out ther it is true the screen is not capable of this as the multitouch visualizer proves :|
[Nexus One General] lolittle:
Im sure you can buy capacitive touch-screen styluses, iv seen them for the iphone, they should work on the N1 ;)
[Nexus One General] deekjx:
Thats great news IMO. I'm not to concerned with the sticking problem as long as it can pair the points up correctly 99.9% of the time when crossing the axis.
[Nexus One General] rvinny:
anyway to get the option added in the next build? even if it's a moderate improvement, I'll take it.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Still waiting on that link btw :)
[Nexus One General] shmigao:
i am surprised that nobody in XDA has yet commented on Apple suing HTC for intellectual property rights infringement...

Apple usually "only" sues companies they consider as threats:

- Microsoft

- Nokia

But, hey, what ya say? Apple is suing HTC and sticks it against Google!
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
Me too

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=640944

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=640914

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=640828

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=640835

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=640864

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=640832