yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Badwolve1:
I'm unable to get any info about 6.6, as the event finished yesteday, THIS IS NO HOAX!!! The guy works next door to MS Winmo Development, he says the blinds are shut, the doors a locked. I don't think there is going to be a 6.6, he i asked him, "What do you know about the lateset build of Winmo?", he started talking about WM7, i asked about 6.6, unless being developed by another CE team, it isn't happening, the only thing he knew was that the WM7 was nothing to do with CE, he didn't know if there would be an official port for the latest HTC device, the Leo. He only knew about the lack of CE
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Thanks. I'm also sure that there is no WM6.6. It just doesn't make sense.

But WM7 not based on WinCE? That would mean no WM7 applications on the Zune HD and one more system to support, besides Windows, WinCE5.2 and WinCE6.

On the other hand, it sounds typically Microsoft: Why use the great existing technologies, when you can waste your time on something new?

(just think about Live Mesh vs. Foldershare, Windows Live vs. Exchange vs. MyPhone and so on)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Badwolve1:
THIS IS NO RUMOUR!!! THERE IS NO CE AT ALL IN WM7!!!

You are right about the fact that MS have filled all the leak holes, the only hing this man knows is that CE IS NOT USED, let's just wait for MWC and hope for the best, if it isn't CE, MS will hopefully provide backwards compatibility, the man there hinted at possible compatibility, he said "Windows Mobile Marketplace, is going to have an increased amount of Apps, our Devs are going to release a whole new series of Apps for the Winmo Platform, By X-Mas, we plan to have 10,000 Apps in Marketplace, Blah Blah Bl...."

So fingers crossed, it will have compatibility, if not, i will seriously consider getting an iphone
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
An iPhone? Are you insane?! If you want to leave Windows Mobile, get a Nexus One or a Motorola Droid, but don't waste your money on an iPhone. That thing is so limited, as a Windows Mobile user, you'll hate it for all its shortcomings compared to Windows Mobile.

But seriously, do you think this guy really knows what he's talking about? Maybe he confused "no WinCE5.2" with "no WinCE at all"?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Badwolve1:
Lol, I dont really want an iphone, I do know what i am talking about, THERE IS NO CE AT ALL, no 5.2, no 6.0 NONE!!!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I believe you do know what you're talking about, but do you think the guy who told you about that knew what he was talking about?

Cause I've heard from independent sources that it's based on WinCE7.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Eoinoc:
Win 2k and XP had no 9x kernel and look at the vast amout of software which continued to work. Or how about the even bigger switch from 3.1 to Win 95 and again a tonne of software transfered over.

Sure there is some cause for concern but this thread is mostly FUD :confused:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Badwolve1:
Hopefully MS will do some sort of Compatibility magic :p

I mean, Look at all the work they are doing with App Store thingy, there must must be some sort of CAB Magic going on :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
With regards to the WM6.6 and WM6.5.3 thing, WM6.5.3 isn't a release name, it's a development build. It may get released as WM6.5, or WM6.6 or something.

WM7 is almost certainly CE7 based, as it makes no sense for MS not to use CE. It's rock solid base, is used in a lot of things (most car media centres use CE6 for example) and there are BSPs for it for Snapdragon.

I'm willing to bet it's CE7 based, and will be shown (if not released) at MWC in a months time.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Badwolve1:
I didn't know CE 7.0 was out, there is a posobility that CE 7.0 has been given a codname, If it is CE 7.0, can we use our old apps by default?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] :
I know is hard to believe but trust me there is one, i wish i could say more...but not quite yet =]
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
CE7 is code named "Chelan", as far as I know.

Not quite yet? That sounds kinda like "soon"?

And what about the rumored 6.6 version? That's BS isn't it? There is no 6.6, only 6.5.3 and 7, right?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] feanor512:
But if WM7 has zero apps at launch, I'll hate it too. The Nexus One would be nice if it supported US 3G...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
^This. Exactly. I hate restrictions.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Well, here's one example: you are driving using a satnav program and get an incoming call. You want to talk and still get the directions. You answer the call, and here are two scenarios:

1. Current WM, a multitasking OS: you press OK/Cancel/Back button (or the X in the top right corner) and you can keep talking and your satnav app is still showing where you are.

2. iPhone: you need to go to the home screen, find your satnav app, and launch it. It will need to get satellite fix again (not a cold start, it will be faster, but still), find your new position and start from there.

Downloading large files in background is another case.

Granted, in most cases you don't really need programs running in background, pausing them is just fine. Video players, games and such have no business running while you answer that call. But there certainly are cases when you need it. And the problem with Apple's approach is that it's not you who decides. If they haven't thought about something at design time you won't get it.

So pausing programs by default but still leaving the opportunity for them to run is the right approach, IMO. Restricting everything or keeping everything running are overkills.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
^This. Exactly.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
you got me..I was still in 2008. Sorry about that.

That said, the veyron is still semi-automatic at best with paddles and automatic in normal mode. That is blasphemy if this car was made 20 years ago.

and I do enjoy too. I still drive a 250hp stick shift car.

But the writing is on the wall. Enjoy it till it lasts.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
And how many apps actually work on the iphone vs the WM platform?

I could not find a VNC app that works for the WM platform for crying out loud.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
+10 on those words!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] osirisHTC:
Breaking: This title (Breaking! - winmo 7 is not based on wince at all) is wrong !

Could someone update the first post title ?

As to not fear monger ?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Heck, lack of multitasking may actually be the last of our worries: http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/02...-windows-mobile-7-now-known-as-windows-phone/

These guys say there's no... copy/paste functionality!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
So, they've really pulled an Apple...

It's striking how they've let all the idiots and Apple fanboys, who've been bashing WM for the last years, influence them...

Damn.

They were years ahead of their time with Windows Mobile, now they're years behind the competition.

How long will it take TomTom, Navigon, Foursquare...... to come up with new applications for WP7? The competition is not standing still. Untill WP7 actually gets useful, with enough third party applications available, Google, Nokia (and maybe Apple) will have moved on and copied/incorporated all the good concepts they've introduced with the WP7 UI.

They should have just built upon the strong foundation they already had. Apart from the ugliness of the UI and the lack of APIs, there was little wrong with WM6.

They could have come up with a great OS, evolved from WM6, two years ago, if they'd put the same efforts into WM6 that they put into developint this new thing from scratch.

Like always, they were wasting their time. I knew it. I said it before, just read this thread, I said it before, and I was right. It's so typically Microsoft to waste their time on redundant stuff, instead of taking the great technologies they already have, and making them into great products (cause, really, WM6, Live Mesh etc. etc. are great technologies, but not great products, in the sense that consumers can understand them, make the integrate and work together etc.).

I'm disappointed. Very disappointed.

I wish the best for Microsoft. After all, competition is good and it will certainly force Apple to get rid of some of the flaws of the iPhone, make a better UI (same for Android) etc.

But this system is not for me. As much as I like the UI, I simply don't care about it. I care about the power user features that WM6 has offered me - multitasking, copy/paste, installations from anywhere, file system and registry access etc.

Sure, I understand that they're going after the consumer (=iPhone customers) market here, cause there's more money to be made there. But that doesn't mean they have to punch their loyal power users in the face...

Anyway, unless they come up with some "magical" solutions to the multitasking, copy/paste and other problems at MIX10, I'll just move on, cancel my Exchange account and get one of the compelling Android devices (HTC Bravo, Motorola MOTOROI etc.)...

Nokia today announced Symbia^3 with visual task switching... Palm has shown us that multitasking works... Really, the only reason I can see why Microsoft has removed that stuff, is because they were envious of Apple, which made them blind, only trying to copy Apple, never looking around to see if others (including WM6.5) actually had better concepts for doing certain tasks (like multitasking). All the moronic WM bashers probably made them forget about all the good things about WM, that WM has had over others all the time...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Well, that's not a known fact yet. With regard to multitasking, copy/paste, as well as running WM6 apps, lack of information is assumed to be lack of the features.

Talk about crappy UI.... I'm not going there for sure, even if they multiply their multitasking abilities by a thousand.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Please, show me where they've said anything about any of those topics other than "stay tuned til MIX". Do you really think they'd announce "disappointments" like that at a developer conference? On stage with an audience full of developers is the last place you'd want to spill the "no multitasking" beans.

Now I'm not saying they won't do just that (MS has done stupid stuff before) but I'm not ready to throw a hissy fit and jump OSes just yet. While I don't think MS will be nearly as open as they have been with the "anything goes" mindset of WM6, they certainly won't go all Apple on us either. They've made fun of them for exactly those things. Again, it wouldn't be the first time MS made hypocritical decisions/statements but I would bet on them living up to their previous words.

So just calm down for a month and then freak out if the worst fears come true.

While the Zune HD can't run WM6 apps, it shouldn't be all that hard for them to add that capability to WP7. It's WinCE based (even the ZuneHD is) so the .net framework, etc is practically already ported. I bet they'll have some sort of "Classic" section where legacy apps get stuffed into.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
That is ridiculous. must be a beta bug.

Or tell the development team at Redwood to buy the new 3GS and study that software instead of looking at the first release of 3G.

:D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ajclai08:
What the Windows Phone has, that both android and iphone don't...is functionality out of the box. Features that require a "app" are built-in features for win phone 7..even social networking. But, I'm afraid Iphone users didnt purchase the device because it was " powerful, fast, or productive. They bought it to be "cool" and have "fun" with their phone. Even though the device it self sucks as a phone. People don't care if the device is good or not..it's wheather if its sold by apple..doesnt matter anymore.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I've already quoted their statement that clearly said there would be no multitasking the way we're used to it.

I hope so. Without backwards compatibility, it's DOA.

If WP7 really is what it seems to be, it's basically an exact copy of the iPhone in 2008... no multitasking, no copy/paste, no apps... that's ridiculous.

ROFL... that's what they apparently did. I gues they were so envious of the iPhone, that they just tried to copy it exactly, while completely missing all the progress that's been made (by Apple, Palm, Google...) since the iPhone 3G launch... (and even by themselves, BEFORE the iPhone even existed).

I have a quote for you:

ROFL. No, seriously... one third of European WM users said Nokia made their phone^^

http://gigaom.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7/
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
It would make sense to do in a developer conference, and they won't say "guys, we screwed up and forbid multitasking". They'll say "look how brilliant our push system is and how you can use tiles so you don't need to run apps in background. And, "see how integrated everything is? You can tap a number in a browser and it'll dial the number for you. You don't even have to copy and paste anything". And such nonsense.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sleepwalkers:
WM6 was largely sluggish unless the phone was hacked and a new ROM was flashed. It handled most basic smartphone tasks with the grace of a ten-ton truck, too. Messaging was slow (in the way it had to seemingly re-draw an entire conversation when one message was sent/received), predictive text was relatively weak and clunky, there was little to no integration of services (Zune especially, but Xbox Live as well), it's media management was poor along with the player, etc. etc.

Saying there was little wrong with WM6 is like having a car with a capable engine but nothing else works properly. Instead of fixing it, your efforts are better used in getting a new car than attempting to fix the old one.

So much of WM6 was behind the competition that MS decided that they'd be in a better position if they established a solid platform that had the basic things WM lacked at the time (ie. the basics of a smartphone). It's not entirely dissimilar from Apple's break from OS9 to OS X.

Do you think there's an OS that doesn't allow multitasking just for the hell of it? Developers don't have to consider the minutia of multitasking memory and CPU management. When Microsoft says "No multitasking, but we can guarantee you 90% of the system's resources every single time your app is run," you don't think there are devs who would love that?

Not to mention "no multitasking" hasn't even been stated yet.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
I would partially agree on that.

People who got the iphone think it is "cool". Yes.

Did they buy it because it is an apple. Naaa

They have 20% smartphone market share. Do you think all these are mac users? the 1% mac commands cannot have 20% phone share. If anything, it will be the reverse. People are actually buying mac because the iphone provided them with a satisfying experience. That cannot be said for WM till now.

With Win7, Zune HD and WM7, MS might very well get a satisfied customer base.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Tigrouzen:
Its all ilogical way this is not phone its media center !!!

But its developement version, then flash or copy paste cames after and of course all developer on xda can make it verry nice i hope...

I love then search and explorer very fast and smooth
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
What else would you do with a number that shows up in a browser?

Copy, paste it in your contact list? Hey...that is not so bad. Maybe they will have that option when you click on the number.

In the days of yore, that is why you would need multitask. Keep the browser open so that you can read the phone number and punch it in the phone.

With integration, not such multitasking needed.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Emphasis added. Just because it's new and/or different doesn't mean it's bad. People stuck in their ways is exactly the problem. You seem to think that just a few small improvements to WM is what was needed but practically everyone else disagrees with you. Fact is, you're an enthusiast to the extreme. You build your own roms for gosh sakes. It doesn't get much more "core" than that. You are not the target audience. If MS sought to keep you happy, WM would be failing even worse than it is already.

If MS does lock down WP7 a-la iPhone, I have faith that XDA-Devs or someone else will jailbreak it pretty darn quickly. I know you just want to preserve the enjoyment you get out of customizing the hell out of your phone but I don't see how that will change. It will just be a new world with new challenges.

P.S... HardSPL = Jailbreak. Not sure what the aversion to that is.

What's so wrong with that? And let's just think about how that's going to work. How does an application get live data into the tile if the application isn't running in some form to update said data? The ONLY thing I could think of is forcing it to be XML based and you would basically subscribe the tile to an XML feed and the processing for the data would have to be done on your own web server. But that would be a mess for developers (having to run your own app/web server and manage data for your users... yuck) and I could not see them going that route. I don't know how they're going to do it but there HAS to be a way for your app to run. Maybe only on a schedule? I don't know. But they've shown multitasking. Apps like Pandora and Last.fm can run while other stuff is running and are considered extensions/apps so no reason that other stuff can't do the same.

As for copy/paste... that comment was interesting but I certainly didn't take it to mean that there won't be copy/paste. It would seem like a pretty cut and dry question/answer however apparently Microsoft disagrees. This is also seemingly not-developer related so I'm not sure what to make of it.

But again, wait til MIX or other info leaks. Now that it's been unveiled there will be more details slipping I'm sure. Shoot, there was no official mention of voice based search but it got included in one of the demos seemingly on accident.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
Come on. What if that particular number is not a phone number? But an order number I need to copy and remember? I don't know a product license ID, whatever?

I think we've heard enough "there's no need for copying and pasting" crap from another phone maker to buy into. :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Well, Android isn't failing, is it?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
heh...heh..goodexamples. Maybe the browser will be smart to detect that this is a phone number or it is not.

Who is the other? Apple does provide copy/paste now. not before.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
It depends on how you look at it. In a way, it can't fail because it has no direct commercial purpose. It's there to screw things up for everyone else.

It can fail though if you look at Nexus One's sales numbers.

It can also fail in that it doesn't impress me at all - I am amuzed by the hype around this crappy [from my personal subjective perspective] OS. Now, this is not as important as the two points above, but I know I'm not alone.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Exactly. Same for multitasking. The navigation thing is one exaple there.

Sure, often there are better ways to do something. Often, push notifications will do a better job than multitasking. Often, phone number recognition etc. is better than copy/paste.

But not always. There are scenarios where multitasking the way we're used to it is the only solution, where copy/paste is the only solution.

It's stupid to remove those possibilities, just because there are alternatives that, in some cases, are better - because in others, they're not.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
What I am concerned is:

What happens to the software gang that wrote the Touchflo interface? disband?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
One cannot design a "system" around 5% of what can happen.

It has to be around what do you do 95% of the time.

If they listened to you, we would have a unix screen with a prompt and a blinking cursor.:D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Bullcrap. Seriously. A system has to work 100% of the time. You could as well say: A system my crash once a day. It only has to work 95% of the time. What a load of bull****.

A f*cking UNIX console is not a system that works for 100% of what can happen. WM6.5 with APIs for everything, a more stable base and better UI would be such a system.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] djet:
Not an argument as most things you are talking about have more relation to the userspace than to core OS.

HD2 stock ROM is good enough to go, no custom ROMs needed.

Messaging can be easily improved (MSFT/OEM/ISV);

Text input can be easily improved (MSFT/OEM/ISV);

services can be easily added (MSFT/OEM/ISV);

media management can be easily improved (MSFT/OEM/ISV).

You don't need a new OS for such simple things.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] djet:
"You don't need tabs in a browser. You could use a one universal page instead, make it a home page. You have a search button there, you can go anywhere. You could use widgets to fit all the 100+ sites you visit. In one page. No tabs needed, aha. "

That's what kind of crap we usually hear about multitasking in mobile OS.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
You need copy/paste for the 5% I'm talking about, just to make sure your system will work 100% of the time instead of 95%.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Rim1Flex:
I find it really funny how Steve Ballmer allways looks like he's going to kill the person he is listening to.-I probably shouldn't say that but its funny:D:D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Exactly...

Rim, what's the deal with multitasking, copy/paste, file system access and all that stuff? I'm seriously concerned...

Well, that's a pretty clear answer. No multitasking. Sucks.

I hope one of the scenarios "where you can do multiple things" is navigation. A navigation program closing when you get a call is not only annoying, it's dangerous. But knowing Microsoft, I'm pretty sure they haven't thought of that. They've just removed multitasking, cause, you know, Apple doesn't do it either.

Crap.

And you know what sucks also? Letting us wait for years, only to tell us that we have to wait even longer "until MIX" to get the important answers. WTF?! Seriously, WTF?!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
I admire your energy, but you have a long way to go Frey.

Tell me what sort of apps have you developed for WM or iPhone till now.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Stop joking about me....:mad:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Rim1Flex:
ok, (smiles) :D