yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dwboston:
Who are you complaining to here? Yourself? It's not really clear.

The iPhone and Tilt 2 are targeted at different market segments. The iPhone is a consumer device - it's a prettied-up dumbphone with a unique user experience that gets the benefit of AT&T pushing it over all other devices and prioritizing network traffic for it over all other devices.

The Tilt 2 is targeted at the business segment. It's unfortunate that AT&T "cripples" some functionality out of the box but, even fully featured, it's never going to sell in iPhone-like numbers. It's largely a phone for a power user.

And there are cases for the Touch Pro 2 / Tilt 2: http://www.seidioonline.com/category-s/3775.htm
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
It should be pretty clear what I am complaining about. It is that the phone is set up in a way which makes a difficult user experience.

I work with business users daily as an IT consultant.

Most of the every day users have no interest in tweaking anything.

Who I am complaining to is pretty much up to who responds, in what way.

I have researched many topics in this fora about cases, and have found very few vendors who are offering cases for the Tilt 2.

Thank you for flaming in a reasonably respectful way.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ohyeahar:
I can't speak for the Tilt2 since I don't have it. But I do have an unlocked European Touch Pro2. The out-of-the-box experience was quite nice for me. The stock WinMo 6.1 ROM performance was excellent. It was possible to handle most tasks within the HTC Sense environment, such that noobs often don't need to go into the WinMo interface. So perhaps it's AT&T who messed up your device?

A lot of the bugs are introduced because ppl want the latest WinMo build or they want the latest version of Sense. So it's good that we at least have an option to do so.

Btw, I didn't think dwboston's post was flaming. Let's try to keep things nice. If you were offended, I'll apologize on his behalf :D
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
Often in telecom, if there is a circuit in question we will disconnect the circuit to see who itches or *****es.

Think a nerve was struck back there.

Are these devices produced only to stoke the ego of those who would say, "See what I can do with mine, can you do this?"

In order for any WinMo device to succeed it should be extremely functional, which it is, and reasonably easy for the average user to like.

Which it isn't.

NYCNY
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ohyeahar:
Yup, this is currently the nature of WinMo. It's has the most functionality of all smartphone platforms. Yet, it's ugly and fairly unstable.

We're all looking forward to WinMo 7 to address this.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] petard:
My computer running Windows 7 has been up for 23 days no problem. The only reason it was restarted is because I moved it. Otherwise, it only gets restarted when there is a Windows Update the requires a restart. I have gone over 2 months without a restart before.

But that is no comparison. Windows Mobile is buggy and unstable. Everyone should recognize that. I have been using it for 6 years and never have I had a device that didn't need restarts unless I am using it for the most extremely basic tasks (messaging, calling).

Windows Mobile 7 better fix this and everything else with Windows Mobile or I'm jumping ship to Android.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ohyeahar:
Truer words have never been spoken...

I'm still on Windows XP at home, and I never shut down or reboot unless it's a software/update installation requires it. When I sleep or leave, I put it on standby.

With WinMo, I have a software that automatically schedules daily soft-resets for me. The TP2 is actually better than other WinMo devices I've used in that it can actually survive about 3 or 4 days until it slows to a crawl. But I'd rather have it freshly booted waiting for me every morning.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] burtonsnow8:
Are you talking about basic computing (web browsing, email, music) or cpu/memory intensive applications?

Try running photoshop day in day out without restarting and you start to experience little hang ups etc. Our phone is basically processing at 50%+ at all times, try throwing that at your CPU and seeing how long it can stay on for.

Seriously now, I understand we can literally leave our computers on for days, but having it actually use 50% memory and 50% cpu at all times is different than letting it sit idle and using 5% or less for web browsing etc.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] NewbTrader:
The reality is, WinMo is a crappy OS. There's no debating that. What load a processor sees should have little/nothing to do with the STABILITY of an OS. Many servers that see very high loads often aren't rebooted for months or years. I think winmo/crappy drivers/crappy software on top of winmo are like the culprit. It's everything.

I've not used Android phones too much, but things certainly seem to "just work" better (I'm a linux fan personally). There's little question that winmo is getting left in the dust by android, and personally winmo 7 may be too little too late. I have a touch pro now, and am looking to switch to the tilt 2.. It has crossed my mind about getting an iphone, but the damn thing is too "locked down" for my taste..
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] sirphunkee:
ah-HA!! I think you have summed up the quandry that creates threads like this in the first place...there is no mobile platform that can be everyTHING that everyBODY wants/needs. You do your research first, and pick the OS that seems to fit YOU the best.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] sirphunkee:
Could somebody provide a link to the data speed fix dwboston is referring to? I'd been looking for that anyway...thanks in advance!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] burtonsnow8:
forum . xda-developers . com/showthread.php?t=584409
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] sirphunkee:
Sweet, thanks! Now if I'd only realized before I asked that this would be specific to the AT&T model, duh!

*facepalm*
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] burtonsnow8:
Well, I think AT&T cripples their phone a little bit more to stop people from "stealing precious iPhone bandwidth". At the very least it shouldn't hurt to do it on your phone.

Just do a speed test before and after (mobilespeedtest.com) Keep in mind that w/out any mods mine fluctuates from 250-650kb/s in a mediocre location, so run the test a couple times.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dwboston:
So go buy an iPhone. Problem solved.

Or keep *****ing and complaining and coming off like a smug little @zz. Your choice.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] NewbTrader:
Sadly, that seems to be the case these days. Android certainly looks to be creeping up though and filling that void where WinMo is falling short though. We'll have to see how that turns out in the next couple years.. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see WinMo dead in a few years.

Well, I pulled the trigger on a tilt 2 tonight (coming from a touch pro), and got the wife an iphone. From playing with one in store, it seems like the tilt 2 has roughly the same performance of the touch pro, which is a little disappointing, but the tethering and having some useful apps is what made the decision for me.

It has crossed my mind at times whether things like a high res screen on the tilt 2 is really of much practical use.. I guess we'll see after I use it for a while. I'm impressed with safari and how it renders sites on the iphone, and how it does so well with a "low res" screen. Makes me wonder if the high res screen ultimately just results in shorter battery life..

I apologize for the mini-rant, but this thread is largely that anyway.. Anyone have any thoughts on how the tilt2/touch pro 2 compares to the original touch pro?
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
I was ranting about phone. Wasn't the one to try to make it personal. Geez!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] thedeadletters:
I used a Fuze/Touch Pro from November '08 to Oct '09, and replaced it with a Tilt 2/TP2. Physically speaking, the screen is far nicer and it makes me wonder how I used the Fuze. They keyboard is also a significant improvement. I do miss the Fuze's light, though.

To be honest, I would say that the performance seems about 5% smoother, which I know doesn't make any sense since they have the same cpu/RAM. I am using Sense 2.5, which actually runs well (aside from some weather slowdown once in a while and a current issue with Facebook contact pictures). GPS is easier to acquire, though I wouldn't call it 100% stable. Regarding the stock ROM, it ran well, but I really needed it to look flashier (pun intended, if found funny).
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] burtonsnow8:
WinMo has problems, I am aware of that, but you are taking things out of context. A server, in a STABLE environment (which many times our phones are not) can run for months at a time (although monthly restarts are suggested). Be realistic here people, you need to soft reset your damn phone occasionally, whether it is a BB, iPhone,WinMo, or android. Daily restarts on WinMo are absurd but it is not alone in needing reboots.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ohyeahar:
There's one thing I love about the XDA forums. The most common and worst insult people here can say to another is to tell that person to go buy an iPhone. :D

If anyone talks bad about the sacred iPhone anywhere else in the web, you get the fanboys coming to it's defense. Just recently, I posted a comment somewhere else that the iPhone could use a higher resolution screen. It was like saying "bomb" on an airplane :eek:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] NewbTrader:
Thanks deadletters. I played with a tilt2 at the store for a brief period, and performance seems very similar to the touch pro (I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or happy with that fact). I realize the tilt2 has a much higher rez screen, and thus there's more processing that needs to be done, so perhaps roughly equal performance with the touch pro means the tilt2 actually has significantly better drivers/software.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but "stable" servers NEVER EVER "need" a reset. The only time a reset is "needed" is due to upgrading libraries/etc. or hardware problems. I know servers that run for a year or so at a time, before a reset is ever done..

The reality is yes, all phones "need" resets periodically, be it an iphone, winmo, android, etc. However, I'm not sure I'd say it's a problem with a non-stable environment, but moreso to do with poor code and incompatible software. I recall older winmo phones were certainly more stable, which leads me to believe it's not so much winmo, but likely incompatible software/poor software on top of Winmo (like touchflo/etc.).
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] petard:
I never remember Windows Mobile being stable the way I used it. If you are using it like a normal phone (especially WM Standard) then it is stable and runs for a long time. I think the problem is memory usage. WM and programs for it seem to always have memory leaks. It is always climbing. My PC has been running for 25 days now, and if I close everything I'm running it will drop down to what it was at a couple hours after boot.

With Windows Mobile, I boot it, load Opera, Messaging, Palringo and then close them all and find that it is now using 20MB more than it was after booting and loading everything. This is unacceptable. I don't know if it is WM or if it is drivers and such, but I have never had a really reliable WM device.

Just playing with the port of Android on my Touch Pro 2 makes me want an Android phone. After all these years, I'm finally getting sick of things in WM that just don't work. I accepted it when the iPhone was the only alternative, but now that Android has decent hardware behind it, I am thinking of switching. I might just do it when an Android device comes out with AT&T 3G.

The thing is, whatever ROM I try I always have problems. I have yet to try a completely clean ROM with no additions but those look boring. I want TouchFlo, the nicer menus, the enhanced notification, and the better volume slider. Those make the phone much more usable. Android on the other hand is perfectly usable when it is stock.

I have never used another smartphone OS for day to day use, and I have seen my fair share of iPhone crashes. I have never used Android on a device designed for it for more then 10 minutes so I may have a skewed perspective but I can't believe other current operating systems are as unstable as WM. I very rarely go more than 2 days without a soft reset. I amazing made it a week once on my Tilt 2. It was an older EnergyROM I believe.

I just want a phone that can continually go at least 1 week without a reset. I would absolutely love it if it can go 1 month without a reset. My PC can, so why can't my phone? My PC does SO much more than my phone and would have no problem going a year without a restart.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] godefroi:
Um, me. I reboot my (windows) computers on patch tuesday. That's pretty much it. Why would I reboot a machine?
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
Thanks for bumbing in! Helps a lot

mr dwboston, and I use the lower case on purpose, was getting a little but much irritating. Bunb in when you want mr. boston.

I was advised many years ago, if you want your horn blown, blow it.

So.

Here is.

mr. dwboston.

I have worked with information technology since before High School.

My Dad taught me to build a crystal radio when I was 10yrs. old.

I listened to Wolf man Jack, and other oldies radio station from all over the country and the world from my apartment in northern NYCity when I was 10 years old.

mr.boston do you know what a crystal radio is? If you do , I commend you.

In the late 1960's. I studied in H.S. from the U.S. Navy Radioman Training Manual everything of the function of discreet circuits, conductors, resistors, capacitors, inductors, oscillators, receivers, transmitters, etc. and when I was 15 yrs. old could design antenna farms to receive and transmit anything I want to pretty much any where. Could pretty much be put down in a field, jungle anywhere and get yur@zz talking to someone to get yur@zz out of there before this @zz got to you first.!!

the @zz, in question (your inclusion), is probably an observation of a reflection, inmho. (if that is the way it is characterized). Did any one ever tell you to respect your elders? ?

If there is nothing else from you mr.(lower case intended)boston,

back to the story. Soon. I am an old guy, A little bit excited over the last exchange. HeHe.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
Back to the Story...

I have been following this thread and other side threads regarding WinMo.

I should be following this thread since I started it.

And I have tried pay attention.

Got a few other thing going.

My job in the world outside of this fora, while trying to include this fora is to enable users to connect reliably to functions, services, which are used in their every day business lives. My interest currently is with Windows Mobile.

I have been using Windows Mobile before it was even being used as a Phone.

I am sorry that this thread has become some what distracted, though if it has, it may have developed other interests, points of view.

My Point of View

ATT Tilt 2 is a Dog

I Like My ATT Tilt 2

This is the first Windows Mobile device which has allowed me to,(listen to me now!!)

Open an email with a webinar link. ok (are you still with me?)?

Open the webinar link within the email. ok (are you still following me?)?

View the webinar with the default browser, with ATT Tilt2 it is Opera 9.5.

Hang with me here!! done, done!!

View the webinar also presentations included. Big Huge Steps!!

Opera 9.5 crashes. Back to 2000.

Look you guys, girls, who-ever you are.

I am needing this thing to work for me as a support consultant, in order for me to sell it to my end users, who work in a businesses environment.

Any one wants to offer any constructive solution would be very much appreciated. Buy an iPhone, BlackBerry will also be cosidered.

Really, let's get serious.

Regards,

NYCNY
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ohyeahar:
hey nycny, not sure why you're quoting me when you're calling out dwboston...

Anyway, as requested, here's a constructive solution:

Don't use Manila / TouchFlo3D / Sense / whatever it's called now...

Use standard Today screen. Not the "Windows Default" for WinMo 6.5. I'm talking about the really standard Today screen. Don't even bother to install additional Today screen plugins unless you are prepared to support them. As the maximum, just enable the following: date, messaging, tasks, calendar and device lock. (See attached for reference).

It won't be finger-friendly so you'll need to use the stylus. And things will look very 1990's but it'll almost never crash on you.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] irkan:
Dude, .. seriously ,.. what is your problem? .. i have read the whole thread, do you hate the phone cuz it is unstable? or it needs lots of tweaking and hacking to get it to be good? .. dont you think it is ironic that you come to a site of tweaking and hacking and whine about how the device is only good if tweaked and hacked?

Have you tried whining to HTC about this? and NOT this forum?

why did you buy it, in the first place

And why are you coming here telling us about your job? in multiple posts .. we get it you have a job, so what? all people have jobs (well, most of them do those days).

This forum is about development and hacking.

This forum is not about providing IT solutions for you to give to your internal/external customers in your company!

This forum is not about you coming and whining about how the phone is unstable/doesnt satisfy your needs.

If you want something form this forum, than first know what you want, .. second, search and read about stuff that is related to what you want, third apply on your own device.

If you dont like this phone after all, ... throw it away and get an iPhone, am sure you have the money for it .. after all, .. you have mentioned several times that you work in an IT/Telecom/whatever company
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dwboston:
Thanks for posting your resume. Not sure what it has to do with your crying about the Tilt 2, but I'm sure it made you feel better. If you don't like the phone then don't use it. Don't expect much sympathy on an HTC forum though. Good luck with your iPhone.

And the word is "discrete". One would think if you actually worked with the circuits, you would know how to spell the word.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
Yes kind of made me feel better

Thank you for correcting my spelling, this spell checker doesn't work so well sometimes.

I like the phone, thank you. I like it even more, since I acquired it at no cost.

So I am not married to it for any particular reason.

I may buy an iPhone to test at some time.

I am committed, though to Windows Mobile for now.

In a lot of ways my original Tilt (1) was a lot more reliable.

The function of this phone is hard to understand.

Things which should work well, do not.

Maybe, possibly, probably HTC and Microsoft messed up again.

I understand how WinMo works.

I have been using WinMo for probably 10 years.

I didn't start this thread to get into a test of wits with you.

So lets cool our jets here.

I called you out because you were condescending, please correct my spelling, context, etc..

I apologize if calling this phone a dog has offended you personally, in any way.

Still trying to figure out why it is a D.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
Maybe you are right

When I found this forum, some time ago.

I thought it was a place to get help for the use of HTC phones.

I see that there are some very intelligent persons who contribute to this forum. A lot of very good ideas can be found.

I have tried,used many.

Some work well, many cause failure.

I will continue to visit this site. Because it is useful.

I understand that this forum is about development, hacking.

I will be careful in the future, before starting, commenting on any post, regarding any phone.

The Tilt 2 is still not working very well.

Thank you for your support.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
Apollogise to all, kind of

After having numerous performance issues with newly issued Tilt2, including a recent hardware failure.

The nice people over at ATT sent me a replacement today.

I received it less than two hours ago, I have not installed anything yet on it.

The performance of this piece is beyond night and day.

ATT Stock ROM.

I haven't yet done any discovery to find out what I have received, as far as equipment or build level.

Opera 9.5 has a response very similar to a desktop.

This thing so far is amazing, considering previous experience.

Before I mess this cherry up, I have got all weekend, I will try to avoid adding any thing to it.

Any advice? (please avoid suggesting flash another ROM)

All questions will be entertained.

I cannot believe how fast it is!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
I would like to send an apology to all

I have been working with equipment which will be returned as defective.

I had no idea that it was broken in the way it was.

More than likely firmware as well as hardware.

Any spelling errors are my mistake.

As content is more important than form.

Apologies for spelling, not.

get a life.

Out
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] burtonsnow8:
I rarely reboot my servers...but they are also running in a cooled room on a rack. I carry my phone around with me, sometimes it falls, sometimes it gets warm in my pocket/while playing music, it is not in a stable environment. These are not ideal environments for hardware. On stock rom i'd say it is very stable and with a little maintenance you can get your phone running very well, I have done so with mine.

I do agree though, as the os has evolved it has lost some of its stability. For that we have M$ to blame, other companies are able to make solid OS for the same hardware, M$ should step it up as well.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nycny:
I also work most of the time within a MS Corporate environment.

MS servers are reasonably stable, likable for stability.

If we could only hope for something as old and stable as Windows 2000 for mobile, we would have come a long way.
[G1 Apps and Games] sputnik99:
Did anyone succeed in installing the droid corporate calendar from this thread http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=5302139&postcount=10 on their G1?

I tried by pushing to system/app or by just installing, but it wouldn't install.

???
[Touch Diamond2, Pure General] Aegishua:
I'm not sure if this has been addressed but if it has im sorry. Anyways everytime i receive a text, it always has the wrong timestamp.. for example my friend in sydney messages me in sydney at 11:00am, ill receive it a couple of minutes later but the stamp will be 10:00am (and ive checked the time on his phone) and this may seem rather harmless but after 5 or 6 texts each way it becomes a bother to constantly scroll up and read his new messages.

Secondly, everytime i open the messaging client in sense and try to 'tap to compose text' it takes several texts and then the htc keyboard just puts out numbers and symbols instead of letters.. which is fixed temporarily with a restart of sense.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure General] donhu:
same here!

i have the same trouble!! anyhelp any1
[Touch Diamond2, Pure General] jmkhenka:
check your timezone settings in the phone, they need to match your friends. Perhaps you got the right settings (consider daylight savings if you use them down there) but he has not?

If his or your timezone is set wrong, but time is set "right" messages with diffrent "zone" will show up wrong.

So make sure both your friend (if its only one person whos sms timestamp is wrong) and your own phone.

That should fix it for you.