[HD2 General] Monty Burns:
as you've quoted inside of quotes you have made it really dificult for me to "quote" back - nice job! (although i suspect not deliberate).

"We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker."

Yeah ok. So the very big majority of Winmob market phones are produced by HTC, this site is dedicated to HTC (and historicaly Winmob).... do you REALLY think they don't read these forums? Really? Honestly? Are you sure?

"Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction."

I agree. There are SOME who want to gripe. There are a ship load more who want to make a device work but can't, no matter the support they get from the community - random users suffering from the SMS bug for example? The very fact most of these people have googled/have knowledge of these forums, means that they have at least gone to some effort to resolve an issue. So yes some, but a VERY small number. So, how can they air the frustrations they have? where? Maybe the most expansive and read HTC forums... thats a good place to start!

"And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.

Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract."

*sigh* .... ok .... i'll come back to this but, i did quote, if you really want me to link to a thread closed in the past 10 minutes other than i already quoted your mod. I will.

"Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer."

Yeah ya know, it was a developers site years ago.... its not any more and hasn't been for a long time. Its a cookers and users site now. If you still think HTC don't read this forum then .... The sites success over the years can also be its greatest strength if you let it.

Now this isn't a problem of the site itself, more one with many reviews and fanboys of ALL phones, Iphone, HTC, Nokia....

"Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response."

Trying out a phone is a shop is a VERY diferent affair to OWNING one. Any person will know that, sadly though, many of us have to go by the reviews and forum comments that are available and try to filter out what may or may not be fanboy. Magazines, forum posts, personal reviews, blogs are all individual and very personal. Saying that someone should have reviewed more is simply not fair. Its impossible. Try asking your local O2 shop if you can take a phone away for a couple of weeks to try?

Hold on .... yes you can!!!! And that was the point of the last thread that got closed! Your fellow mod closed a thread which wasn't actually personal to anyone and (from a personal fed up with moaners point of view) I was trying educate people who purchased there phones in the UK that they had a bucket load of rights. If they are not happy, and it was purchased from the uk, then please "turn it in!" and return it.

Now from my pov, i'm a londoner (can you tell?) but i work all over the world. Currently im in Durban (yeah I was there at the test match! and met the England team) but out here they dont have the HD 2 so, I have to go on the reviews etc. Some people out here will spend near on £600 getting it imported from Expansys UK (ummm .... co.za) and other sites.

also..

Can i provide evidence? No. It was not made public so all I can assume is that if I PM a mod, things will be closed:

How can i provide more evidence than that? I'm not privvy to your private messages. The previous line though backs up my "love HTC or go away" argument to a small extent:

I really think you guys, having helped, actually almost pushed HTC to where they are should now use your position and be .... responsible(? maybe a bit strong)) ... finaly get off the HTC only band wagon. Let them know that the stunning products they produce will no longer be accepted only 90% complete.

Ok. Lets be realistic. I ain't gona change your minds on anything and I don't want you to rebel against HTC as they make amazing hardware but, at least, in the position you have got.... maybe create a "if your gone B*&% and let off steam, do it in this thread?" thread? Maybe, just maybe there will be a common thread in it that HTC will finaly get to grips with .....?

Oh, and i've had a tytn, tytn 2 and having had both of those replaced under warranty i thought... no! Poke it! And had a tosh g900 when most people couldnt even spell 800 res screens and then foolishly went to a TD. That was refunded quickly under sales of goods act. Have an Acer M900 but due to the fact i'm living in south africa and i purchased that under my company contract, i now need to replace next week when im back in the UK. I was looking at a Milestone but the exchange support is rubbish at best. So, I have a week to try the HD2 or return it as not fit for purpose.... I do however, really want it to work!

And one final word.... my best winmob device without a device? Well two actually .... the Samsung Omnia and the baggage reconciliation devices i'm working with at the new Durban airport (what??? its not just a PHONE O/S!!!!??):D