yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Android Development] teknoname:
This is incorrect. You have full and legal property rights to your phone with no encumbrance. You have entered a contract for service with a service cancellation fee. If you cancel this service you must pay the fee - Rogers does not take the phone back and you cannot return it to them for credit.

Think of it like a mortage. The house is your property and does not belong to the bank. In the case of a mortage though the bank has special recourse via the foreclosure process to seize and sell the house to cover your debt. Rogers has no such recourse.

Secondly, Rogers can write anything they wish into the contract but if it is contrary to government statues or regulations (Think CRTC rulings) it's invalid.

Like I said before Rogers provides service at our pleasure and as such are subject to regulation.
[G1 Android Development] dawgbone98:
Then by no means, don't sign the agreement. I can make a 9-1-1 call with my phone so I am not worried.
[G1 Android Development] westway11:
Please read the terms of service. Rogers has the legal ability to modify, suspend, or cancel our service if certain clauses in the contract are broken by us. The most interesting lines read:

"We may restrict, block, suspend or terminate any or all of your Services or accounts, including 911 service, or identifiers in any way, without notice or liability to you, if:

•	you are in breach of the SERVICE AGREEMENT*, including non-payment of your charges or non- compliance with any Policies;

*The service agreement you agreed to states:

-Equipment and related software may have to meet certain minimum requirements and be maintained in certain ways and in certain locations in order to access the Services or for the proper operation of the Services (e.g., 911 services)

"You have full and legal property rights to your phone with no encumbrance" is NOT a valid arguement.

So those of you who say that you own your phone are still hosed. If your phone doesn't meet Rogers' minimum software requirements then they don't have to let you use their network.

ALSO, show me what government statute(s) or regulation(s) Rogers is against, I would be very willing to consider your argument but I doubt you have even fully read the Rogers terms of service.

And yes, I agree that Rogers can write whatever they want in their contract, and you can still sue them. They even have a paragraph on arbitration and how they plan on covering their asses if you try to sue. I doubt anyone would even bother taking Rogers to court over such a trivial issue and spending their hard earned money.

The CRTC will agree with Rogers anyway. In the end Rogers is letting you keep your modified phone the way it is, and they are even offering a phone as a replacement to the dream.

What more do you people want? They even credited us an entire month of data.
[G1 Android Development] ben.selinger:
Whoops. The forum chopped my link from my previous post. Brief history here. Let me know if you think anything should be added or subtracted to most accurately reflect the situation. http://techreview.eatuniverse.net/2010/02/10/rogers-mandatory-android-update-a-brief-history/
[G1 Android Development] ben.selinger:
You are right. In Canada, the corporation usually wins. The point however, is that so long as we continue to concede defeat right from the get go, the corporation will continue to win indefinitely.

The purpose in this whole argument is to attempt to set a precedent.

The telecoms are stuck in the 90's, and they will remain such for as long as they are allowed to do so. The problem with this, is that communication technologies have advanced rapidly over the past 20 years, leaving the telecoms waaay behind. IE: Why do we pay more for cellular service, than for a land line, when land lines cost 20x more to maintain? Why don't our SP's simply offer us a reasonable data plan, and everyone uses VOIP? Its infinitely more efficient, and consumes less network resources to do so.

Botswana, Africa, has better cellular service than we do in Canada. The reason has nothing to do with availability of technology. Botswana is barely a second world nation, yet cellular plans are practically free by comparison. The reason is that the advancement of technology has allowed wireless technologies to provide communication infinitely cheaper than we've enjoyed over the past 20 years. Its time for a change.

This fight has been going on for nearly 40 years in Canada. It started with Northern Telecom in the 70's, who started blocking data transmission over voice lines, claiming the data was disrupting the voice services. This was a blatant lie, and the courts called them on it, and ultimately the people won. The problem has evolved but has stayed nearly the same. Current day SP's want to force us to pay more for services which cost them nothing (and in many cases, save them money, such as VOIP).

It makes no sense to me to concede defeat. The more people who demand what is reasonable, the quicker the change will come.
[G1 Android Development] teknoname:
Terminating the service is different than suspending it indefinitely and still expecting you to pay the monthly fee or pay a cancellation fee.

You keep referring to the Terms of Service, the terms of service are almost completely worthless. As you stated yourself "They reserve the right to change them at anytime"...This isn't a contract it's what Rogers thinks they can get away with.

You also mention meeting 911 requirements. Well so long as your phone meets those requirements, by running say Android 1.6, they don't have a foot to stand on for that issue.

None the less I'm fine with the on-line disclaimer. I think it's an excellent move on Rogers part to make it available. Good on them for this.
[G1 Android Development] kevwo:
thanks

got off the fone with rogers today. told them to put the data back on for my tytn 2 as i was without data for two days. told them that my dream was already updated, and my data was unblocked
[G1 Android Development] bcrook:
Let's stop will with all the breach of contract and suing talk. Unless a class action starts, is anyone really going to sue Rogers Communications? Honestly?

Good luck getting the contract terminated, I suspect it won't go well.

Regardless, there is a waiver available to say that you will not update regardless of the e911 bugs.

http://www.rogers.com/htcwaiver

The IMEI issues have been fixed - this is an easy way to deal with the problem.

Lets move past this ridiculous situation.
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
Amen to that, and free phone :) But, probably won't use my new Magic for daily use since I really do need that USB Tether. No tether on unrootable Magic :(
[G1 Android Development] :
See they should have done it like this from the beginning and save both sides the frustration and wasted time. But they decided to jerk us around for 2 weeks and only know realize that a waiver is easier and faster and people would be happy with them.

The only thing I would look into is this:

Compensate Rogers for what?Its a very open ended statement in my opinion
[G1 Android Development] copolii:
If you haven't updated, yes, you can move past this ridiculous situation, but there are those who have and can't move past this ridiculous situation. I will continue pressing Rogers until they either

downgrade my phone so I can root it again

Replace it with another HTC Dream which has the older firmware

Pay me the $400 that I paid for the phone (you break it, you buy it)

I've gone from "you're the only one with these problems" to "I understand, I do apologize for the inconvenience". I've also made the guy admit that none of the solutions being offered to me by Rogers (i.e. renewing my contract and getting a new phone or just plain buying a new phone) are reasonable.

I had absolutely no intention to update and the only reason I updated was because the moron that took my call said you can apply the update, wait for the 3G to come back and then you can root it again. Whether he lied on purpose or just didn't know the reality is a different story.
[G1 Android Development] sp991:
Ok since there is a waiver you don't really need to do anything about this but i just wanted to say that the solution proposed here "ht tp://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php/Upgrade_Rogers_Dream_Radio" works. But it's only for those wha are still on the stock ROM and doesn't want to make the mandatory update that would (if I'm right) remove the option of rooting your device afterward.

I've try it on my girlfriend's Dream last night and now she's really happy with her new phone and rogers reactivate her outgoing calls and data today. I have a Diamond and I was looking forward to play with her Android phone and I was really frustrated when I've read about this mandatory update so I try to avoid it.
[G1 Android Development] SirBastille:
When I asked them about it, their response was in the event of a legal case, we would be responsible for legal fees.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
so my 3g went away again.. called into blackberry and got network refresh and works again!
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
EkostonS did you update the radio? Cause this is a known issue with the new radio, and Rogers knows it. I posted it in another thread but, to get it back if it disappears now, all you have to do is enable "2G Only Mode" then wait, then disable it again after a few seconds. Phone will refresh on it's own and 3G will pop back up.

Rogers knows this because, even a tech support dude told me about this trick.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
nooooo im not goin back to 1.6 android so im not doin anything rogers wants from me, as ive said im leaving rogers as soon as milestone is out on telus, so im not messin my phone up for a company im not even gunna be using in a months time. and you cant use the new radio + death SPL = no fun with the phone.
[G1 Android Development] missy_nurselove:
My 3G just dropped out of nowhere last night too.. and I did not update the radio at all just cuz I didn't want to give in to Rogers at all, even masking the radio to look like it was updated. I called in, and he didn't give any explanation why, but the tech "Pat" reset the network and it came back, no questions asked.
[G1 Android Development] bcrook:
My data went out last night during the Opening Ceremonies. I suspect it was around 24hrs after I signed the waiver. I just went on online chat and the person was very helpful. He reset the backend and I was all set. I also talked to a really nice CSR about the voice thing, she actually answered the phone by saying that I had been redirected and that she was really sorry and asked if I had time to talk about it. She had be back online within 5min.

I am hoping the disconnections stop and this is over. Whatever. I am glad I no longer have to trick or lie to them. Just say, I signed the waiver, fix it.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
i still wont do anything rogers has asked since they decided to cut data then outgoing calls, i wont sign this waiver they have now either.

ive had the troubles everyone else has with customer reps. but also had a couple decent ones willing to help. data was reconnected via blackberry support *my account says im on a blackberry made it easier* and outgoing calls was fixed first time i tried calling *girl picked up said thanks for calling rogers... i said your not my gf wth. she knew i was on a dream right away, fixed my problem knowing i was rooted.* i can deal with all these problems for the meantime. im sure my account auto comes up with the *HES AN ASSHOLE* red screen and they just do whatever to get me off the phone lol
[G1 Android Development] copolii:
Is anybody looking into a class action?

Is anybody a lawyer or know a lawyer?

This is getting out of hand. Serve this ************s with some legal papers and they'll know its not a ****ing joke.

I've already threatened them with a class action, but we all know threats are hollow ... let's follow up with action.
[G1 Android Development] daeshawn:
nope they havent..i've tried multiple times and it keeps telling me to enter a valid serial
[G1 Android Development] missy_nurselove:
I have not and will not sign the waiver. The 4th clause asking us to compensate them where charges incur, I do not feel comfortable with. Why should I be paying their legal fees at any point? Most of the reps seem to just want to get your service back up. Just call or use the webchat and say that ur service is not up and running, no need to lie or beat around the bush. They should reset the network for you without you even asking for it.
[G1 Android Development] 0mega1:
Why don't you do it then? You're the one all excited for a lawsuit. Get it done.

But seriously, Call, tell them the update bricked your phone (Brick it yourself) and get them to send you a new one (Obviously, Brick your phone AFTER you call and get them to send a new one, preferably after it arrives at your door. )

All of you are within warranty. Rogers is a cell company, they've made more than enough money off of you to justify this.
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
I think we need to complain more, so that we can get a newer update, at least 1.6 for G1. This data dropping issue is no good.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
wont make a single difference. us rooters make up for like 2% of all the dream/magic users in canada, if that.
[G1 Android Development] teknoname:
My personal stance is I just want Rogers to leave me alone. I don't care about updates (1.5, 1.6 or 2.0 etc) or their the worthless legalize boiler plate in their little waiver. Hence I've completed the waiver and stopped being hassled. Not interested in a law suit or complaint anymore myself since the problem has been resolved to my satisfaction.

Of course your mileage may very and if you want to start legal action I'm glad we have system in which you can.
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
It's not only rooted users having the problem, it's anyone who's done the mandatory update too.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
i updated my brothers magic with the new rogers scene rom with e911 fix and hes pretty happy with it, doesnt seem to have any problems, he also doenst know much about anything to do with these phones other then the regular crap. so im sure there is alot of happy customers with these updates, just not us who it would cripple our phones and has crippled some of your phones.
[G1 Android Development] copolii:
So I had Rogers replace my Dream, but they sent me a refurbished one. This one has the new radio, but the old firmware and flashrec seems to work on it. Now my trouble is .... should I keep it or say screw you I don't want a refurb?
[G1 Android Development] silvrhat7:
Got my new magic today (using the free upgrade). Did not open it -- will sell it and keep my Dream.

Amen.
[G1 Android Development] Unicornasaurus:
Do you have to have signed a contract using a Dream? ie. when you signed up/renewed for Rogers, it was with the G1/Dream.

I signed up with an iPhone plan, but I'm using the Dream..and I want the Magic lol
[G1 Android Development] silvrhat7:
Umm, I'm not 100% sure I understand your question, but when I upgraded to the Magic, all i had to do was renew my contract for 3 years. But I only had 6 months in on the original 3 year contract, so I didn't mind at all.

When you upgraded, did you actually get an Iphone, or just the plan?
[G1 Android Development] Unicornasaurus:
When I did my hardware upgrade, I got an iPhone with the plan - which I still use to this day. I bought an HTC Dream off of craigslist and I am using that with my iPhone plan. I was thinking of trying to call in to Rogers, and asking them if I can upgrade to a Magic since Rogers has detected that I'm using an HTC Dream and not an iPhone.

If I log into my rogers account, it shows that I'm using a Rogers HTC Dream, so I was hoping that might help me in upgrading to a Magic. Though considering when I renewed, it was for an iPhone/plan, it may be a no-go.
[G1 Android Development] alan090:
yea the rules were it had to be purchased from rogers

and also the promo ended on feb 14
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
so i went to telus yesterday got the milestone, and weirdly i get a call today from the office of the president of rogers asking me about my filing of a complaint they didnt say to much other then i will owe 500$ cancel fee + 55$ for this month's charges. but seems they are starting to get the complaints, so if any of you hear back post up.
[G1 Android Development] shayne122:
This is confusing to me.

I have called in NUMEROUS times over the past two weeks to check on the status of the program, and not one CSR has been able to tell me that the program had been reinstated at all...

If you don't mind me asking, where have you been getting your information? I know I've seen the same thing repeatedly, so I'm curious as to why I'm being left out. Haha.
[G1 Android Development] moyaya02:
Hi All,

Can anybody confirm I can use CM guides below to get my data connection back?

wiki*cyanogenmod*/index.php/Upgrade_Rogers_Dream_Radio

and

wiki*cyanogenmod*/index.php/Full_Update_Guide_Rogers_Dream_EBI1_to_CyanogenMod

reading these guides and others, they all seem oriented towards Rogers phones??? I am afraid there will be incompatabilities because my phone is a T-mobile Dream G1, bought on ebay Nov, 2008, and running on Rogers network since then. I lost Data connectivity to Rogers network and can not activate GPS.

My other settings are:

CM 2.4.14.1... and 120 applications ..... and

DREA100 PVT 32B

Hboot 0.95.0000

CPLD-4

Radio-2.22.19.26I

Sept 2 2008

Serial 0

PS I think these two links are very legit..so I modified them as shown to allow for posting ( I am a new user).... if the mods do not like that, please remove.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
just sign the waiver that was posted a couple pages back and then call in saying you have done so. then u dont need to do anything to you phone.

or do what i did and tell rogers to **** themselves, unlocked my dream and went to telus. now owner of unlocked dream + milestone
[G1 Android Development] alan090:
im getting my information from rogers
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
It was through Roger's twitter. You had to usually specifically tell the CSR to check your account, they won't otherwise. There would've been a credit on your account. It's probably gone now, but I'm sure you'd be able to argue it.
[G1 Android Development] missy_nurselove:
3G Data dropped... AGAIN!

I regret to say that my data dropped once again on Friday the 19th.. I called in 3 times.. twice with the same guy from HTC Dream Tech support whose name was some kinda East Indian name and did not remember me from the first call to the second within a couple of minutes of each other. He even hung up on me at one point (not sure if it was on purpose). He was extremely useless, and he was telling me to do all these things to my cell, checking the 2G box and then unchecking it.. Of course I tried all these things before I called in. After the longest time, he finally reset my cell, however the 3G did not come back.

I called in again, and went through to general support and that guy was much more helpful.. I am escalated to tier2, however that takes up to 72hrs for something to happen, he did try to reset network but nothing came back. I did not do the update, nor did I sign the waiver. I wonder if it has anything to do with the mass amount of people in Vancouver crashing the system (because it has done it once), but I really doubt it is the case this time around. I am contemplating on signing the waiver just to see if that will turn it back.. or else call tomorrow since it'd have been 72hrs by then.
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
Bumping this thread!

Recently my CRTC complaint when through to Rogers, they called but I wasn't able to pick up at the time, calling back on Monday, but wondering if anyone else who filed a complaint has gotten a call back from Rogers yet?
[G1 Android Development] Juped:
i also got a call back from CRTC, and was also not able to answer the call. Since i signed the waiver and have my data restored, is it worth following through with this complaint?
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
Well I had hell that week and one of my phone lines has the billed screwed up like every month so I have stuff to complain about still. I know I got my free phone and my data will be credited but still, everything seems to be out of their convenience and not for my benefit. Sounds a bit selfish but I really just want to set the record (being my account) straight with Rogers. The person calling from Rogers is probably someone higher up then say a simple supervisor or retentions employee too, so someone "hopefully" sensible, and knowledgeable.
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
so i got a letter today from rogers about my complaint i filed with CCTS

part of it states::
[G1 Android Development] shayne122:
Yeah.

I actually had to end up getting my old Rogers TSR (back from when The Source was with Rogers) to put the order through for me.
[G1 Android Development] alan090:
just like i said your complaint had no merit as it was part of the terms of service

really you people dont understand what you agree to when you sign up for cell service? read your telus tos they may be even worse..

http://www.telusmobility.com/en/ON/service_terms/

pretty much identical but seems even a little more draconian to me :)
[G1 Android Development] copolii:
[Benchmarking] Rogers vs. Rovers vs. Cyanogenmod

Hi Guys,

In case you're having trouble convincing the morons at Rogers that this build truely does suck balls, I devoted my entire day to performing a series of benchmarks comparing the Rogers 1.86(pre-911), Rogers 1.89 (e911 'fix'), and Cyanogenmod-4.2.15.1 builds/platforms/roms/firmwares (whatever you wanna call them) on my HTC Dream.

Details will be on my site shortly (android.mahram.ca, scroll all the way down to 'Benchmarks').

Long story short, the 1.86 kicks the 1.89's ass viciously (~25% better CPU performance) while only providing a 7% improvement over the latest Cyanogenmod build (which is understandable considering the extras that come with Cyanogenmod).

If you'd like to use these benchmarks, you're more than welcome to do so, but please do not remove the link to the site from my table.

Cheers.
[G1 Android Development] xaueious:
Android benches are pretty much useless. Not much can be proven that way.

Does anyone know if Rogers is still scanning the radio string?

I am on radio but never signed the waiver.

I might want to switch over to the 2.X radio so I can flash more ROMs
[G1 Android Development] bartman75:
I just got a registered letter from Rogers asking me to upgrade my HTC Dream firmware. Funny thing is, as of a month ago I am using a Nexus One (2G only for now). Who knows what they are scanning for.
[G1 Android Development] xaueious:
What I mean is, are they knocking users off data with detected radio versions?

Converting it to a 2.x radio would make it appear to Rogers as a T-Mobile G1
[G1 Android Development] JamieD81:
i believe they are still scanning, my friend called me 8 times last week to get me to come over and fix his phone * i rooted for him * i took his S/N IMEI and such and signed the waiver for him, rogers was booting his data every single day. havent got a call from him since asking me about it.

so sign the waiver, tell rogers to **** themselves on the phone and go about your daily flashing of roms.
[G1 Android Development] bartman75:
I don't think they look for a 2.x radio version.

I was running CM w/3.22.26.17 radio version. In January, I stopped getting data. I installed the Rogers 1.89.631.1 f/w (using eztery's hack), and I got my data back in 12h. I went back to CM via nandroid restore and have data since. My radio is still 3.22.26.17.

My naive theory is that they have a list of devices that they still scan for firmware version, and once you're off the list you can go back to a community mod.
[G1 Android Development] SilentTweak:
Everytime they scan, I get a disconnect from 3G for a bit but it comes back after a while. So far, for the past few days though, I haven't had my data disconnected; so one can only assume they've stopped. But I'll post back if they do. I refuse to sign that silly waiver.