yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
It has been officially confirmed that WP7 is based on CE, yes.

No word about the version, however.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ElCondor:
AFAIK It's based on CE 6.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
Where was the confirmation?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Gizmodo and Engadget (among others) both reported that it's CE6.

Has there ever been any doubt that it would be CE? I mean MS has 3 choices... WinNT, WinCE, or something new. WinNT is too heavy and just not suited for something like this. MS has various research projects (singularity) but they're still research projects and afaik nothing has been targeted at embedded devices. WinCE is perfect and is exactly what Microsoft would suggest to a customer if they came to them with a similar project.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
I'm fairly sure it's CE6 or CE7, I just want to know for sure.

Neither Gizmodo or Engadget have any evidence backing up their claims, so it looks like they just assumed that.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Sorry, I searched but can't find where I read the statement from Microsoft. It was something like "it's based on some version of CE, but I can't give details until MIX".

Engadget and Gizmodo, I think, only assume that it's based on CE6, but they probably have no clue.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
I think we can agree Engadget et al are clueless about WM. :)

I wish I was going to MIX10, there should be a lot of neat things coming out of there.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Yup, agreed.

I would be begging my manager to send me if I didn't already know the budget was tight.

I'll probably end up going to TechEd though and I'm sure there will be some fun stuff released/announced there too.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] lobo4806:
If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.

- General Erik Shinseki
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
Fantastic quote and oh soo true.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] addicus:
Ain't that the truth!

I'm almost there using my trusty ole 8525. I'm saving up so when the HD2 comes out on TMo USA I can step up and get one. Hopefully I'll have the option of using WM7 on it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
I'm contract free with a Touch Pro. If it gets confirmed that the HD2 will get WP7 (final answer should come out at mix just days before the HD2 hits stores) then I'll be jumping to T-Mobile. If not, I'll be stuck with my TP til WP7 launches. And that will be a painful wait heh.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Even without 3G, I'd take the Nexus One over the iPhone anytime. The iPhone sucks (and I know what I'm talking about, I've owned three iPhones!).

But let's stay on topic. I'd like to hear one solid rumor with *something* to back it up. Please, at least one.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Rim1Flex:
Windows Mobile 7, will be good trust me;)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] dwizzy130:
Let's hope so.

It must be pretty good though because they are keeping it air tight in terms of leaks.

Maybe that's why all the 6.5.X (WM6.6) builds are getting leaked.

Keep us distracted.

dwizzy130
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
6.6 may be the release name for 6.5.3, it may just be WM6.5 though...
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ND4SPD:
Let's just say that I know wm7 is CE based :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Just heard that there is NO backwards compatibility.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] dwizzy130:
From?

dwizzy130
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
The editor in-chief of mobile-review.com.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] fards:
I heard winmo7 was based on amigaOS with a liberal smattering of NextOS and CreatOS thrown in..

they've called it WhatALoadOftOS**

a little monkey told me in exchange for a bag of sherbert dip.. :eek:

obviously it's true..

at least it's about as true as most of the rest of this thread.. :rolleyes:

**or maybe that was the iphmoan phwar
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
OK, here's the conversation I just had with Eldar Murtazin:

(take it for what it's worth!)

Hate Windows Mobile 7. No apps from previous versions of WM working here. Not compatible at all. Couldnt do anything. Grrrr

did you play with wm7?

hmmm - not playing, but try it for some time

dont think that this year, or they have secret stable version inside MS otherwise (do not believe in it)

for WM users it will be a great step ahead. For market it's copycat of Android 3.1/3.2 or iPhone

How does it look? like Zune HD UI? Is there Windows Live and Zune integration?

dont know about that. Zune HD is more simple UI

try to catch up - but build from a scratch

they could create something tottale new (and they did it). but call it - windows mobile? for what reason?

Hm... can you describe the UI? Or draw a mockup? Is it like the leaked pics from 2007?

could you provide me link to screenshots?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/is-this-windows-mobile-7/ Many screenshots there from 2007. Is WM7 like that?

Ohh it was called in 2007 Ruby (6.5) but never released, only pics. I saw it in the past on closed MS presentation

and feel of UI is the same in some way. it's all about UI

So does it have softkeys and long click menus like WM6.5?

yes for soft keys - long click? do not understand it - think no

Long click is when you tap on an icon or text and hold your finger until a menu shows up, where you can then copy, delete etc

then yes - copy etc working in such style

Finally, do you think it will be shown at MWC? And do you know about anything else they will show at MWC?

event do not have any clue. Think 7 will be show in secret rooms for sure as a promise for partners (vendors, carriers, retail)

One last question. What is the kernel? WinCE7?

have no clue - really :) i couldnt check it now
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vetvito:
He say, she say, but then he said that he said... Ok enough.

Only time will tell.

Don't you guys remember Windows Mobile 5, we were dying for the release of WM6. When we got it, we was like what the hell is this, isn't this the same BS i mean OS.

WM6 = a dressed up WM5. Microsoft doesn't want to make that mistake again, so they're taking their time. Let them.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Rim1Flex:
Well said, just keep the rumors to your self;)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Lazy79:
maybe this could be interesting, too

http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=12237

"...He notes that the OS (Windows Mobile 7) has been built from scratch and that none of the old Windows Mobile 6.X apps worked.."
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] pupakota:
Very bad news and it was very predictable(since beginning).

It is end of palmtops era.

Tragedy.

Just in case you think i am wrong - just go and look at amount of freeware on freewareppc.com.

Have fun, say thx to HTC and M$.

you will get your another-android-like-bulb**** soon,consumers. ( :E )
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] :
Would this really be such a surprise? I mean, they said they will be running 6.5.X (whatever it will be called) alongside WM7 as the "business" end of the market.

So get WM6.5.X if you want backwards-compatibilty.

Get WM7 if you want an iPhone knock-off.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Lazy79:
maybe its just a development release without backwards compatib.. we should wait till the middle of the year.. and the upcoming weeks, of course.

i dont want an iphone os.. i want a smart smart phone to work with and do what i want ;) i am not sure if microsoft will not take care about "old" software and tools for win mobile ce.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
OK, Rim1Flex and rafyvitto! It's time to tell us EVERYTHING :D:D

(Maybe at least some hints? You know, about the interesting stuff: Zune, Live, XBox, compatibility?)

(or maybe at least about which rumors are NOT true? Come on...)

Hm, OK then... not. :(
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] SorWrath:
I was reading an article in Engadget about this, and i say these are all lies. To prove that are lies, i am going to ask this. How many times Microsoft has made a change that its totally not backwards compatible?

They took a good lesson with Windows Vista that some software wasn't running properly in Vista(written for prev Win OS), and in Windows 7 they even put a virtual environment for those (XP compatibility).

In CES they said that the new WinMob7 will revolutionise the mobile industry, i doubt that but i believe they will introduce some features like in Vista and in Win7(perhaps something like Mobile Superfetch, encryption of data). But to remove the thousands and thousands applications and not provide backwards compatibility i doubt it. Microsoft doesn't do the moves that Apple does with their software.

Otherwise if i am wrong then they will hit their head in the wall because lots of people will change platform. However with some patience, in a few weeks the truth will be reviled (WMC) :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] zizou417:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/17/early-windows-mobile-7-build-given-some-hands-on-time-incompati/

From what's being reported on Engadget and twitter, looks like your source is right
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] band27:
.

Thank you for sharing however, WM7 is potentially still 1 year away from release guys. Microsoft is not about to let there last chance fall through based on a couple of peoples opinions but rather teams upon teams testing this. Just like Windows 7 for desktops, there were many branches of builds that were tested. I was a beta tester for Windows 7 and from my version to the final version ....they were worlds apart as far as the final release, it was a much more refined and smoother experience.

Who's to say mr. Murtazin just got one of the branches out there that are not backwards compatible and while there could be builds that have gone a different route.

Even if it gets released in 8 mths. That's plenty of time for MS to decide which is the best and most successful branch to be select for its final release.

Thus, final thoughts...

That I don't necessary disagree with the rumors, whether they are true or not is besides the point, this conversation vs. the first which began this thread are but small pieces of the bigger picture. Conclusions from small pieces should never be made without the knowledge of the bigger picture. Let's not condemn this OS until we know all the facts.

GOOD LUCK MICROSOFT......;)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] gbbsoft:
VB.net is not backwards compatible with VB, you must rewrite all your software...

:mad:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] l3v5y:
But VB6 applications work on modern OSs anyway.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Maybe they've just changed the installation method and this guy couldn't run his .cab files... :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] the_ape:
I think you will probably find that WinMO7 is based on some CE version or another, they have just 'finished' the CE6 branch, and CE7 must be in early phases, so will probably be based on one of them. Yes CE6 wont run CE4.xx CE5.xx apps without some work, but it does run (believe me I've been trying to get my Honda/Alpine in car setup to run stuff, although complication there is SH4 cpu).

I doubt MS will build a Non-CE kernel for use on ARM cpu's as the base is all there, the ZuneHD shows what CE6 is capable of if used right, and I'm sure that WM7 will be based around the same core code as it makes the most sense.

You must also remember compatibility layers come very late in the development stage (take the 360 as an example) as it's quite low on the task list, as getting the core systems working are the primary focus.

We will see in Feb at WMC I spose.

I can however see the sense in MS supporting two flavours of the WinMO base (they have been for years afterall with pro and standard) WM6.x for feature phones and WM7 for the top of the range phones.

MS have said that the likes of the LEO are the devices it's aimed for (and they must have physical devices to test the platform on, and LEO seems most sensible guess at the moment), and we know the Tegra is upto the task as it's used for the ZuneHD.

I'm sure we will see some leaked builds in the not too distant future, as let's be honest HTC/MS use site's like XDA for feedback, even if they dont officialy say so :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Well, with all the secretiveness Microsoft shows lately, I'm really getting angry... It has been such a friendly company, but now it's becoming like Apple. :(

I hope WM7 is at least worth all the wait, but I highly doubt that. I'm almost certain that it's nothing revolutionary, judging from everything I've heard. If it lacks some features that WM6.5 has now, then I will immediately switch to Android, because the only reason why I use WM is superiority in advanced features.

I'm also pretty certain that it is still in very early development. I wonder what Microsoft has been doing all those years.

Have you seen the Meizu M8? Have you seen how that small company managed to make a gorgeous UI on top of WinCE6, within a short time?

Compare that to what Microsoft achieved with WM6.5 in the same timeframe and you'll probably lose all faith that Microsoft can achieve something revolutionary with WM7 - when they can not even compete with a small music player company.

For now, I need my HD2 because neither Android nor iPhone can offer me the features I need. But it won't be long until that has changed. Android is very close and January 27th might bring the next major iPhone OS version. Add a high res screen and a camera flash to the iPhone and I'm sold.

And I won't care how good WM7 is. I just won't care, because I'm more and more disappointed with Microsoft. At some time I will come to the point where not even all the power and customizability of WM6/7 will compensate for the disappointment that such a large company failed to deliver any improvement within years (2007-2010), whereas small music player companies can do a much better job.

They have everything they need: WinCE6, a great base, Exchange and Live Mesh, great services, Zune, Windows Live, XBox... It would be sooo easy to put all that together and make the best mobile OS ever. But they waste their time on... something. Look how they waste their time on MyPhone and Windows Live (STILL no calendar sync?!?), when they could just provide a rebranded Exchange to consumers, so that they could instantly compete with Apple's MobileMe. Look how they waste their time on developing a CE5 based and a (probably) CE7 based mobile OS, PLUS a CE6 based media player OS, when they could have released ONE GREAT CE6 based mobile OS for everything one f*cking year ago!

I'm sooooooooo disappointed! :mad:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Rim1Flex:
I'm sorry you are disappointed, Microsoft is trying their best to make quality products.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] snake110110:
Ok don't get me wrong but I have this CAB-Installer on my ppc.

(not that I need it.. but I dont care :P)

So when they change the install thingy (so you cant use cab files anymore)

Isn't smart to make a CAB-Installer for wm 7?

Dont be to hard on me.. Its just a suggestion!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Yeah, they should just take their customers' advice instead of keeping everything secret and then releasing one more disappointing product after years of waiting.

MyPhone, Windows Live, Exchange, Live Mesh, Foldersync... WM6.5, WM7, Zune OS... that's a total waste of time.

Take Exchange, rebrand it as a consumer service similar to (but much better than) MobileMe, develop a good UI on top of CE6 with Zune player and you could have the best mobile OS ever.

And that could have happened at least one year ago, because all that stuff (CE6, Exchange, Zune) was already existing long time ago! Yes, seriously, you could have had the killer mobile OS long ago, but you're just wasting your time on more and more redundant software and services.

Get your act together and stop wasting your time on all that redundant stuff. Take what you already have and put it together into ONE great ecosystem. That's really nothing that should take years! You had Exchange, CE6 and all the good stuff for a long time, all it takes is making use of them, rebranding them for consumers and spread the message!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] apreichner:
I think I'm the only one here who kind of hopes WM7 breaks off the path of CE.

Although, if they do break compatibility, I think as soon as possible they should release an SDK with an emulator and bundle the development tools as free software. It's not likely they will do that, but hey, it could happen.

Either that or they could provide some sort of emulation layer that was discussed earlier. Similar to what Apple did when they first released OS X, and what Microsoft did for XP mode. This would at least be a transition point.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Why break with CE? What else should they use? Yet another different kernel? They they'd have to support Windows, WinCE AND one more system. That doesn't make sense.

I guess I'm speaking for a lot of people when I say MWC Barcelona is their last chance. People will lose all their faith if again they see nothing coming from Microsoft there.

They had their time to waste on whatever (WM6.5, Pink, WM7...). Now the time has come to speak to their customers, they won't wait any longer. March is already too late in my opinion.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Fdo35:
I think it will be Windows CE based, because CE is Microsoft's only embedded System that supports ARM processors. Also, the latest version of CE (6 R3) supports third party UIs built using Silverlight, which was rumored for WM7. Also, the person might have meant that WM7 won't just be CE skinned for a smaller screen (like WM has been for years), it will just be used as the core of the OS (like the Zune HD).

Anyway, that's just my opinion
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] the_ape:
They already do supply both of those things for WinMO development at the moment, so cannot see why it would change. The SDK is free and includes emulators, and Visual Studio is free as well (the basic version anyhow), cant see why they would change that.

Plus, I dont get why everyone bashes WinMO anyhow? yes it lacks a little in the 'shiny' department, but when it comes to full blown extensible OS's for mobile devices, what's better? Damn sure isnt iPhone or Android (although it is getting there) at the moment.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I don't bash Windows Mobile. In fact, I still love it! I hate blogs who bash WM for no good reason, cause it's still the most powerful mobile OS.

What's disappointing is that Microsoft seeminly doesn't understand the value of their own products. They seem to waste their time instead of trying to rebrand the great things they already have.

I love WM, Exchange, Zune and so on.

I hate when all the world talks about iPhone, MobileMe and iPods and nobody knows about all the great stuff that Microsoft has.

And in my opinion it does not help them at all that they develop new things instead of taking advantage of the already existing things and making them consumer-friendly (new UI for WM, hosted Exchange for everyone, Zune player on WM...).

And I think after three years of waiting they must finally speak to the public about what's going on.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jaxbot:
Microsoft really needs to raise public awareness.... like TV ads or something.

As far as the rumors, Don't trust anything from Betanews, or something that someone randomly says. I've been following trends on twitter for a while, and it seems one person says something stupid, it gets retweeted, and then big folks like Pocketnow post about it and it's everywhere.

Let's just wait until Feburary :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
I don't trust those kinds of rumor. But I have some very credible sources as well.

As I said, that guy could just not have been able to install anything because MS has changed the installation method. Or they're going to implement a compatibility layer later.

All the world now talks about WM7 being incompatible with WM6.X applications, based on what that guy said. That's stupid, really.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sorg:
WM7 won't be based on CE, but will be based on NT using x86 CPUs ;)

Seriously, at the time when WM7 will be released we will have devices using Atom CPU and consume not more power than ARM CPU.

Would be good to have binary compatibility with PC! :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] fards:
Of course MS have very publicly acknowledged that MinWin works perfectly well for windows mobile, so it winmo7 could be based on that..

However I still say we wait, stop the pointless rumours and see what is actually unveiled with the first actual leaked code :p
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] :
False, 7 will be based on CE OS7.

Its a fact. why else would all beta builds be coded in CE OS 7?

Why else would they be coded in ARMv6 coding?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] fards:
I agree with you completely.

I suspect 1 or 3 things from this story;

A)the russian guy is making it all up to get some publicity

B)he's involved in some deliberate FUD :D

3)he has some kind of demo, a mockup, not real but more like a flash/silverlight UI demonstration of what winmo7 will be done to generate interest amongst the industry and use at tradeshows without revealing too much..

personally I know which one I choose, and what I'd do if I were in charge of developing a completely new OS that I wanted to try and keep fairly secret.. :p

I'd love to take a look at the latest beta :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] jagan2:
Guys it seems that most probably microsoft will release wm 6.5.x = 6.6 next month--here

And windows mobile 7 may be delayed but atleast we can have a look demo of windows mobile 7 next month thats for sure --here

But i really wish instead of a demonstration they release it.:D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
@jagan2, that's very old "news" and totally wrong.

@fards

No, the reason why that guy couldn't run his apps is because they can't simply be installed with .cabs like on WM6.X, at least not yet. MS is going to implement some kind of compatibility layer, but that's not done yet, thus that guy couldn't run his stuff.

I actually do think that he really had a WM7 device in his hands, but he failed at installing his apps and thought that there would be no compatibility at all. It's really sad that there's so many morons in the blogosphere who have no clue at all and just repost what this guy said, without thinking about it.

If all of this is true, then Microsoft is totally heading in the right direction. A bit late, but it sounds amazing. And it's exactly what I always thought and said they should do. Maybe they ARE listening to their customers (and, more important, the loyal powerusers like us :D), after all.

If they manage to release what's described there in 2010/early 2011, then it will take the competition (Apple/Google) YEARS to catch up. That LG phone alone is better than probably the next three versions of the iPhone, and I highly doubt that Apple/Google can improve their OSs to the point where they can compete with a WM7 like it is described there.

Maybe MWC is really going to blow us away.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] uniqueboy:
Looking at those kind of specs, then seven devices will be as powerful as my netbook. Maybe the clue is in the name and winmo7 will literally be windows 7 crammed and re-packed onto a phone, wouldn't that blow away the competition? If that were possible then why not? Seven phones would be powerful enough to simply install cabs in an emulator.:)