yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
What frey is saying is don't watter down something because you think it would work better. That is completely and absolutely false. I didnt care for today's presentation at all as I saw it as a ploy to capture the "casual" user. The fact of the matter is this; the casual user will buy anything that is presented in front of them if its presented right. One thing I do agree with frey is that what should have happened is improvement to the current system with better multitasking, better core system handling etc. This would have increased their market share instantly because developers would love to get their hands on a powerful system(hell who doesn't want an HD2 just for its shear power). What MS is doing is taking the easy way out and building something that for them should be able to be done in their sleep. I hope the hold their word and maintain development on 6.5 or I personally wont be too happy.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Trust MS.

your 95% tasks will be default.

If there are more to take care of the 5%, those will be available too. But not as the first choice. So if a phone number pops up, the default actions it to dial it. But if you wanted to do something else, there are more options available at the bottom of the screen that you can invoke, or probably hold on for more time to invoke a context bar.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
This is alot of trust to put in after what we have seen. This may sound a little arrogant or rude but the reason that many of us dont like devices such as the iPhone is because it insults our intelligence. We know what devices are capable of and we know what is selling short. Many of the "fanboys" that frey speaks about have no knowledge of device capabilities but spew off about how the iPhone is so perfect and how it is the most powerful device ever. It just seems that instead of being a dominant entity and showing Apple where the market will go next by creative and innovative they want to just settle for mediocrity. I dont have a problem with that as long as the hardcore users dont get cut out of the loop.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
It will be dumped approximately 18 months from now. Maybe one year, maybe two, but it's pretty much dead.

Well said. But I feel like am I being "cut out of the loop"... :(

chiks, you're talking BS, sorry, and I'm not going to answer to any of your posts anymore. No matter how you look at it, an OS has to work 100% of the time. iPhone doesn't, but that's an ideological issue with Apple/Steve Jobs. WM6.5 doesn't because its UI and APIs have not been updated in a long time. But Android ALMOST does and Microsoft could easily have made WP7 do it as well, instead of going the Apple way.

If you can make it work 100%, there is no reason not to do it. Enabling multitasking where it is needed (e.g. navigation) is easy, same for c&p, and there is no reason not to squeeze out those remaining 5% of functionality.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
So what will HTC and companies of that nature do? Stick with Symbian and Android? frey I'm starting to see where your coming from. I hope it isnt true that they are dropping 6.5 but if they do that would be like would be a dagger to the heart.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
I am sure XDA will have a hardspl = jailbrk = wp7brk out that will allow custom mods;) So what is the worry?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] addicus:
If copy and paste and a few other existing options are not available then Windows 7 truly does become MS's version of the Iphone and that is undesirable for me. Just because you start over doesn't mean you scrap everything. You scrap the crap and keep the gold.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
Your wish is you own command Frey.

After the numerous insults you hurled at me, I should be the one saying this to you. But like I said, you have a lot of energy, but a lot to learn -> digest.

Good luck. I am sure a person of your energy levels will definitely do something good in this world!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
The worry is that I dont flash because I dont like the idea of bricking. If I pay x amount for a device I dont want to lose that in a matter of seconds. Out of the box 6.1 is better then ANY PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE. There are some quirks here and there but that is just because due to the lack of competition MS didn't update as they should have. So improvement to the current system is needed, not a "follow the fad" market strategy.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
It's true. You can believe me... :(

chiks, YOU have a lot to learn. How to respect other people's needs, for example, cause people are different, and just because some are a minority doesn't mean thy don't have to be respected. And that everyone is allowed to talk about his needs, but that it's NOT OK to behave like a fanboy by trying to make others overlook obvious flaws and so on... well, I told you all this before, so... whatever. Hope you read that article about the "iPhone syndrome". It's really a good read and will make you understand your behavior: http://www.strandconsult.dk/sw4031.asp
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
HTC is a hardware company too. They will continue to make hardware with WP7 on it and custom apps that go with it.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
Cool but the OS that I saw does not have the potential that 6.5 has. Maybe you know more then I do seeing as I do not have an inside look at its capabilities but from what I see is its more like lets catch up to the fade so we can make a quick buck. One thing I have learned in life is this, if you follow the fade you will always be last but if you create your own your always no one can catch you.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] chiks19018:
+1

However, if you are right behind the leader, it doesn't take much to overtake the leader. Especially when you have the capablities ie. money bank + talent bank.

Zune HD is nothing like itunes. Yet it is in a class of its own and better than windows media player.

I have faith in MS to do the right thing. This has been a big wake up call.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] addicus:
I am truly taken aback by the negative backlash when all the answers aren't out yet. If the phones were released next week or month I'd understand, but the release isn't until holiday time. That's 8 months or more! In this world if you show all your cards before time someone will steal them, copy them or try to emulate them without the all the right components and make the whole concept undesirable. By al means complain and let MS know what we still want, but don't blow a fuse. Not yet.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
It's based off WinCE so I have no doubt it has the "capabilities". I'm not sure what "the fade" is but WP7 is vastly different than anything else on the market.

One HUGE thing that this does (which MS could've done without a new OS in theory) is demands new hardware capabilties especially 3D hardware/drivers. Trust me, it's a royal pain right now as a developer for windows mobile. It's extremely difficult to make a good looking UI that is finger friendly and to ensure that it will even work on people's phones. It's just not very conducive to writing good software. Just look at the Pandora situation on Windows Mobile. It sucks. There's one that "works" but it's officially only for a few devices and the quality sucks and Pandora doesn't care enough to fix it. If for nothing else, this restart was necessary just to get people back in the fold. A few touch-ups to WM6 would not have done that.

People really just need to calm down about not supporting multitasking, etc until MIX or the info comes out. There's no point in freaking out without knowing the facts.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ND4SPD:
I hope so. Problem is, MS is probably going to make OEMs use the security model that they used on the Zune HD and it's predecessors. To my knowledge, no one has been able to crack that and make their own custom roms (though to be fair, I don't think too many people have tried :p)

Tricking the Zune software into flashing custom roms will be another hard component as well.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
Well, when asked about copy&paste, the guy in this video says: "I don't have this enabled on this device". Whatever that means...

But I think we've gotten a pretty clear answer about multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] ND4SPD:
...and another thing to remember, microsoft hasn't been really developing the UI for that long - in all of the wm7 dev cycle, this has happened only in the last couple of months. There's still tons of things they are working out even now. They've only previewed a very beta bit of the software(methinks they were a bit desperate) and I don't think even they've actually figured out how they are going to develop the rest of the ui - they've only got drafts. Hopefully they can piece it together by PDC time.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sleepwalkers:
What I'm saying is that numerous experiences were poorly designed and were not acceptable compared to Android and iPhone OS.

HD2 stock ROM is not just Windows Mobile. SenseUI is, at best, a rejiggering of WM to work as a modern, finger-friendly smartphone OS. Microsoft can't rely on third-parties to make their OS bearable to the public at large.

Microsoft had reached a point where their current OS aged to a point where it simply wasn't relevant anymore in the consumer space, and its presence in the business space was diminished (largely supplanted by the Blackberry). To me, it makes sense to build your OS from the ground up to be ideal for large, capacitive touchscreens, social networking, media playback and browsing.

Android is already risking fragmenting the market with so many different, concurrent versions and custom versions (1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1, SenseUI, MotoBLUR, TouchWiz, Dell's new GUI, etc.) - to the point where it can be confusing to the consumer and frustrating for the user. Microsoft is avoiding that by essentially starting over with a new platform that will fix the shortcomings of Windows Mobile without carrying over any of the issues of attempting to rebuild a legacy product.

Not to mention, the Windows Mobile application space is minimal at best. Basics like Facebook, Twitter and Office are already being built into the new OS, even.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Jokes On You:
+1. Im the kind that wants complete domination:D

The negative is from the fact that it doesnt look like this is anything new. Maybe a little nice looking but nothing groundbreaking. But you are right we have to wait and see.

From the vid frey posted it looks like they are going the core process route. To be honest this initial release isn't that bad its just I'm just unsure. Guess we'll see at MIX.

These are up to personal preference. I agree that there needs to be some revamping but not a complete teardown. Integration with Twitter and facebook could have been done in 6.5. Screen type is a matter of preference(I prefer resistive). Personally I am more concerned with OS improvements rather then what they will do to combat the competition because with a better OS everything can be fixed.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Rim1Flex:
Windows Mobile 6.5 isn't what the designer wanted it to look like. What is released is never what was envisioned by the designers.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sleepwalkers:
Eh, I dunno. Of course it's personal preference, but the things they've shown so far are the personal preference of a huge number of people. Social networks are becoming more tightly integrated with mobile platforms - and new social networks are emerging solely on mobile platforms. Music and video playback has become more important since the iPhone - it showed that people want to have a single device in their pocket for their music, social networking and messaging. Windows Mobile in its current state simply isn't built for that; it's built for the professional, the business user. The PocketPC and Windows Mobile platform was built when these devices were mostly FOR the businessman.

RIM has already dealt with this issue with the Blackberry. The smartphone market started to penetrate the consumer space, but RIM didn't have a consumer-centric Blackberry until the Pearl came out - since then, they've managed to handle both markets with relative aplomb and gain their niche.

What I can't seem to phrase properly is that what Microsoft is trying to do simply couldn't have been done with a revamp of the existing 6.5 system. The current system relies on multitasking and being able to run on a multitude of devices and resolutions. Microsoft wants to change that and provide a more rigid set of hardware minimums, because with how fragmented WinMo is now, it's extremely difficult to put a single piece of software out that is able to provide the same user experience as an Android, iPhone or WebOS app.

I believe it's totally necessary for MS to do a complete tear-down to achieve what they want. The design philosophy with the Windows Phone division has changed completely. The very first name for the platform defines what they've been attempting ever since it came out - PocketPC. With the recent success of Android, iPhone and WebOS, the mobile device landscape has changed from trying to put a PC in your hand to tailoring the experience to a more networking-friendly, social, truly mobile device.

Long-winded, I know. I s'pose that's just how I am. :D
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Duron23:
Lets refresh our memories, a little earlier this year, there was news that Qualcomm will be puting out a 1.5 GHZ dual core processor for Mobiles.

1. Now MS has worked with Qualcomm in producng Windows Phone 7.

2. Why do we need such a beast of a processor, if Windows Phone 7 can't multitask. Just to run it UI, naaah.

3. There are lot of things not shown in that press conference, like the dailer, explorer etc... does it mean those does not exist in that Phone ???

More over, as the MS team told, its not only about the OS/device, its about the whole echo system around that device. This is definitely one of the best mobile experience one can have. MS has really left competition way way behind.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS !!!!

I am totally hopefull and excited that MS is heading in the correct directions.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Dannyb2009:
I've been reading through this thread, makes me laugh how a lot of you might be peeved about how iPhone like the OS may become...what do you seriously expect?

The most obvious marketing and sale route to take IS to become more iPhone like...there's a clear reason why so many Apple units have sold, and MS want a part of that.

People like visitors to this site IMO are a minority when it comes to generating a commercial marketing strategy.

I can see MS totally locking down this OS..it would be stable, easy to maintain/upgrade, easy for end users, easy to develop software for..personally I think it's a good thing.

Having used the HD2 for a few months, customised it etc etc, the iPhone is still an "easier" phone to use, more responsive, it's far more pleasing graphically and well, it just works you know its going to do what it say's it will...that's what WP7 needs to do if its going to sell millions....and I think something MS will definitely be aiming for.

btw I am by no means an Apple Fan boy, I just get where they come from, everyone and anyone can use it, hence it sells
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] dwizzy130:
I'm not trying to join a side in this war but I totally agree with what you said.

Microsoft is not developing Windows Mobile for us geeks that like to tweak and hack the crap out of the OS. They are developing WP7 for the general market.

dwizzy130
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] addicus:
I actually think MS is developing WP7 to attract the standard users and the geeks. I have a deep rooted feeling it will be the best of both worlds. No I'm not connected, but I am a very intuitive person and I see where they are heading and I think most of us will be genuinely proud to say we have been with Windows Mobile from the beginning and are reaping the benefits of staying along for the ride.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] sub69:
Agree with everything in your post.

Problem for people like us is that Microsoft aren't there to keep a niche market happy.

Hopefully they'll find a nice balance to please everyone, but at the end of the day they answer to their shareholders, so they're bound to go for mass market usability over geek-pleasing functionality - if it's a decision that has to be made.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] iridium21:
Yeah, hopefully it'll be a bit of both - let's face it, WM6.x looks like a POS by today's standards.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Duron23:
I totally agree with you. even I too belive and feel that MS is not going to leave we geeks at the same time they are attracting standard users. Which is very good for us, because more MS phones sell, the more competition and cheaper they get.

All win win situations.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Duron23:
Yes, A phone has to be a phone, not a PC. That was few years back when Iphone was introduced.

Now the scene is that, people want to do more with the mobile phone. Because

1. Mobile is that one device which is always with you. So it is convenient for us to do small job's on it rather go look a laptop/PC

2. The hardware in present day mobile is good enough to satisfy these demands.

3. People are always on the move, and they want to stay connected with others, mobile serves this purpose perfectly.

I am sure MS will not disappoint we geeks.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] freyberry:
You know what? Let's forget about stupid restrictions for a moment and just talk about the UI...

This is easily and by far the best and most well thought through UI I've ever seen. Ever.

I particularly like

- the ability to pin pretty much everything to the first page (but unlike Sense, as many things as you want), whether it's contacts, programs or whatever

- the things you pin to the first page not being static, but also showing information - a very clever way to bring together the iPhone's icon-based home screen with Windows Mobile's information based home screen.

- the navigation through the pages, with the text on top going out of the screen to show you that there's more you can discover by swiping left/right

- the panorama backgrounds on all the screens (cover arts in music, a random picture in photos etc.)

- the ability for third party developers to integrate their stuff (like additional social networks or streaming services) into the hubs (I hope there will be a lot of freedom for third parties to do so!).

- the seamless integration of all kinds of services in general, whether it's Exchange, Windows Live (finally!!), Facebook...

I also particularly like that some good concepts from previous Windows Mobile versions have been preserved:

- long press menus

- softkeys

- quick search through any list (in WM6.5, it was the keyboard icon, now it's the required search button)

Those enable a consistent UI throughout all applications, contrary to the mess you find on the iPhone, where important buttons like "back" are in different places depending on the application you're in.

What I do NOT like:

- The all applications list: That should be a grid, cause there's lots of wasted space there.

- There seems to be no easy way to get to the music controls while music is playing in the background.

- Apparently there is no easy way to switch between running applications, this seems to work much like WM6.5, with the back button taking you to the application you used before. This is a mess, the back button should open some kind of task switcher instead.

Now, please, don't mess up multitasking and don't forget critical features like copy and paste. Please.

...and give us a freakin' file explorer!!

Will that be enough to keep me from buying an Android device? Well, ONLY if I get all the important applications from the beginning, like for example satellite navigation (TomTom, Copilot...) and ONLY if there are no restrictions on how I use my device - give me unlimited access to the file system and registry, let companies develop competing applications (like browsers) etc. - no stupid restrictions!
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] RustyGrom:
I honestly don't think they need to ship a file explorer in the box.

It would be incredibly easy to write a file explorer IF they allow apps that level of access. This would be the best option IMO. For most people, there's no need for a file browser.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] uniqueboy:
So we will have a whole new OS....about time :)

Will only being able to install through marketplace protect developers or will it just frustrate them? :)
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] vangrieg:
It depends on how this Marketplace works. Currently it frustrates everybody involved including Microsoft I believe. :)

In a way, direct access to customers' money is good. On the other hand, AppStore is a place for severe dogfighting, with prices going through the floor. Judging by the growing number of apps there devs are more likely happy than not. :)

For some small free utilities, e.g. found here on xda, Marketplace is a complete no go. You have to pay 99 bucks to register there as a dev, and go through some bureaucratic hassle (and many wouldn't even be approved as there are guidelines you have to follow and such nonsense). I certainly wouldn't post my app there (I have a tiny program posted here) and would just use it for myself. Not that 99 bucks is a big deal but what the hell.

Oh, and from what I gather these Marketplace/Appstore/whateverstore things are way easier to crack than "normal" applications. In essence, you have to crack the device and the service once, and get all the apps because the store's protection is the only protection the devs get (i.e. no in-app registration is allowed and so on).
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] addicus:
Thank you for calming down. The UI is the best we've ever been witness too and for that kudos to Microsoft. I also agree about the applications, mulittasking and copy/paste points you made and hope they allow that.

Now I think MS was forced to change the whole OS and partially lock it down. Not because the end users really wanted it - but because the developers wanted and needed it to happen so they could easily make applications for the OS. That's why they are making the specifics on the hardware known upfront and not allowing manufacturers such as S.E. to make it like a SE phone and not a Windows phone. I'm not worried about the 3rd party applications and such because of whom they've announced would be the partners already - HTC, LG, AT&T, TMobile, TMobile USA, Orange etc.... These are companies that are serious about making handsets that are profitable and user friendly. Also MS is pulling a coup with having these manufacturers on board from the get go by saying they are going international and not going to be exclusive to one telecom and try to hold them hostage.

I'm happy and hope when these phones launch I can afford one or an HD2 that is upgradeable so I could have the option of using the new OS.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] TurboX2:
Can this thread be renamed and summarized by an admin? please?
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] krazyakr:
But by doing that won't you need to start from scratch anyway? So, are you going to move away from WP7 just because of the break or because iPhone/Android are better?

Even if WP7 compatibility breaks I'll give it a change before moving away.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Duron23:
I believe Windows Phone 7's Interface is more like a Media Center UI.
[Windows Phone 7 Development and Hacking] Shasarak:
Has it been officially confirmed yet that WP7 is based on a CE kernel? And, if so, is it CE 6 or 7?