yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] willowmp:
My email:

Product: Sprint CDMA Hero
Concern Type: Legal
Legal Regards: International Copyright Infringement

Hello HTC, I am contacting you today in regards to the discovery of HTC Corp.'s infringement of international copyright laws. The copyright is question is in regards to the Linux kernel implemented on your CDMA Hero handset. Under the GPL of Linux you must provide said kernel to the public on release of said device, as well as upon demand.

The HTC Corp. has been contacted many times asking (demanding) that you provide this kernel to the public. As of this date you have been in violation of the Linux GPL for 82 days (release date October 11th to December 31st).

Upon reviewing past handset devices released by the HTC Corp. it has been observed that you have failed to stay in compliance with the GPL. In one case it was seen that you were in violation for roughly nine months.

It is understandable that you wish to keep the Linux kernel implemented on handsets produced private until you release your next handset, but in doing so you are in violation of the Linux GPL. This violation is against international copyright laws, and as such you must desist immediately.

As of yet no legal action has been brought against the HTC Corporation. If the HTC Corporation does not publicly release the items protected by GPL, as well as international copyright laws, the HTC Corporation will face legal charges.

Please respond to this notification indicating your choice and status on the release of all protected material, as soon as you possibly can. It is unacceptable for these actions taken by the Corporation, and it should be expected that if compliance is not met that direct legal action will be taken by the United States government under federal and international law.

Thank you for your time.

Illustration of violation:

Please use this as an example highlighting one of HTC Corporation's violations:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html

Tivoization is a dangerous attempt to curtail users' freedom: the right to modify your software will become meaningless if none of your computers let you do it. GPLv3 stops tivoization by requiring the distributor to provide you with whatever information or data is necessary to install modified software on the device. This may be as simple as a set of instructions, or it may include special data such as cryptographic keys or information about how to bypass an integrity check in the hardware. It will depend on how the hardware was designed—but no matter what information you need, you must be able to get it.

You may examine the GPL located at this URL:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses

I don't know about the feds playing dice with HTC but:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html

We just need to collect the info required their and send it to the holder of the copyright.

Who would the copyright owner be?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 702DROID:
im chating with supervisors now from sprint trying to get it
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
Good job guys. Every time we get a response from them we get another clue as to what their responses and excuses will be. If we answer each one of these as we have been doing (for instance, their sad Apache license BS) in each new email we send I think maybe we can get them to release it. This would be a major win for the consumers IMO.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wasupwithuman:
Linus Benedict Torvalds :D
[Hero CDMA Android Development] willowmp:
Oh well if we did want a 'lil action he would have to do it. We would need to send him the info that page asks for.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
A god among men. Creator of two of the greatest computer advancements in history. Linux and Git :)
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
Linus hardly holds the copyright on the entire kernel. Simply browsing the source would tell you that.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] iswm:
Yup. Contacting the EFF would probably be one of our best options here.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wasupwithuman:
and lucky for us, he is also very supportive of the GPL licensing. :D

so htc will have to look at that. :rolleyes:

edit: Oh and I am a man of my word, so lets not do anything yet. I gave htc 10 days... Lets wait... See what happens.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] obelisk79:
if someone is willing to start up a donation fund and find a lawyer familiar with GPL licensing I'll pitch in a little something for legal fees. My only concern would be that my money is used for what it is intended.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wasupwithuman:
Dude, seriously? your a senior member, and you come in to a thread that has been going on for a long time, just to try to smite people with your I should be a mod type talk? Let me give you some advise.

READ THE TOPIC, WHAT DOES IT SAY? "ATTEMPTS TO GET CDMA HERO SOURCE" SO IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR PEOPLE TO POST THEIR ATTEMPTS, RIGHT? Get over yourself, seriously. If you have nothing better to do then hop through forums trying to start unnecessary **** with people, then why don't you leave the forum? Get out of the thread if you don't have anything to say, cause as far as i see it. The **** your writing in this thread has nothing to do with "progress" either.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
I'm going to wait until this weekend to see if HTC gives another reply.

If not, I'm still going to print HTC's reply concerning the matter and take it to the Sprint store where I purchased the device.

I'm that typical "asshole customer" when it comes to getting my way, especially with cell phones. I'll climb the corporate ladder until I talk to the CEO if I have to. Something will be done about this.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] badutahboy:
Totally understand and agree... I'm not quite ready to demand a refund, but if we don't have kernel source before Verizon gets the Nexus one, I'll probably be going that route at that point, especially since it sounds like Clearwire is seeing a near imminent failure of WIMAX and going on about how they could quickly and easily switch to LTE.. That'd put sprint WAY behind the curve in regards to 4G, and could be the death blow for sprint.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] agentofboom:
IP addys

Can the admins monitor the originating IP of each post?

I had a problem on another forum where a company was trying to pull some shenanigans. There were long threads about what the consumers wanted to do about it. All of a sudden these mysterious contentious postings began to appear from other "members" .

We checked the IP's and sure enough they originated from the offending company.

Id be interested to see who says what regarding this thread and who they are actually representing. HTC? Sprint? Are you there? Maybe not divulge the IP but let us know who (if anyone here is) from the companies in question.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] johnsongrantr:
@wasupwithuman

I've been on this forum for a long while... i watch this thread die off... then someone resurrects it after a week or something with nothing more than a "i hate htc" report.

I'm not trying to be a mod, i just hate seeing pointless discussion ... expecially THIS pointless discussion, when I'm trying to read about new progess comming to this platform. Or help those I can help, then crap like this comes up. That's what hero: general talk is for.

We can argue this to death if you want, but this entire thread is POINTLESS
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Trust issues much???

I guess you make a valid point, HTC probably gets most of their Tech Support info from this site, and about 60% of their development.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] agentofboom:
I'm just citing precedent. Its nice to know if those attempting to derail this thread are agents from the company.

Trolls always suck...especially those who receive a paycheck to do so.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] johnsongrantr:
Implying I'm a htc or sprint spy because I'm sick and tired of seeing this dumbass thread every day? Then imply I'm a troll because I'm trying to get people to see how dumb it is? I can promise you I've helped more people on here over the years than you realize.

w/e not even worth getting all worked up about. Peace
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
Yes, please leave. Look, here's the deal. I made this thread to discuss this "pointless" topic you speak of. If you don't want to speak of it then don't. Stop reading the thread and do something else.

As for "implying" you are a spy. Nobody was doing that. The poster was just saying that it's a good idea. That's it. If you are going to be this touchy and *****y get the hell out of my thread.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] badutahboy:
How about we don't argue it to death, and you take your original advice and just stay away. Other people do see the merits of the thread, and your whiny commentary is falling on deaf ears... If anything, you're strengthening my resolve to keep this thread alive.

You're totally entitled to your opinion, but as you stated yourself, you're not a mod. This thread has existed for over a month without mod intervention, so again, if you don't like it, avoid it.. If anyone succeeds, you can bet there will be 15 new celebratory threads, so continuing to visit serves no purpose unless you want to get involved in the effort to release the kernel.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] afazel:
Sprint owns a majority stake in Clear, so if Clear were to jump to LTE it would be because Sprint decided they want to use LTE for their 4G technology. It wouldn't happen if Sprint decided it would be fundamentally detrimental to the company (they learned that lesson with iDen).

Also, Sprint just made a deal with Wal-Mart to install WiMax towers on top of Wal-Mart retail stores, so they're still proceeding with the WiMax rollout.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gu1dry:
If it looks like a duck & it quacks like a duck.....

Really someone with 164 posts in 2.5 yrs has helped loads :rolleyes:

Dude please just STFU & GTFO on this thread if you have an issue with it. This thread started almost a month ago & NOW you have an issue with it.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 702DROID:
got an email back from sprint today finnaly after two weeks

Thank you for contacting Sprint. We appreciate your feedback in regards to the HTC Hero, and its Linux kernel. I will have to refer you to http://developer.htc.com/ for additional assistance with your request. I will also forward your feedback to the proper department. We appreciate you contacting Sprint with your concerns. If we may be of assistance in the future, please submit a new email to Dan@Sprint. I maybe reached directly at (757)223-3703. Thank you again for contacting Sprint. Sincerely,Terrale W. 7572233703Sprint
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cteneyck:
FYI that number he posted is a COX communications number.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 702DROID:
i didnt bother calling or checking it fig it was a wast of time aint gunna get no where on the phone with them
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gu1dry:
Terrale has emailed that phone to other people & apparently he has been working for Sprint for at least a year; link, link
[Hero CDMA Android Development] miamicanes:
No, because this topic is of interest ONLY to CDMA Hero developers. It might arguably be an appropriate topic for a forum that's simultaneously general and specific to CDMA Android phones by HTC, but the last time I checked, there was no such forum, and the only other Android phone that's both CDMA and HTC is the Droid Eris (Desire). Given schematics devoid of project name and other obvious clues (just chipsets and active component parts) for a GSM Hero, a CDMA Hero, and a Droid Eris, how long would it take you to figure out which one was the GSM Hero? 5 seconds, maybe? Now how long would it take to figure out which one was the HeroC, and which one was the Droid Eris? Hmmmm... quite a bit harder.

To wit: our phones are both Hero and CDMA, but in this case their CDMA-ness is more relevant than their Hero-ness. Blame HTC for allowing its marketing department to permanently confuse everyone by using the same name for two phones with almost nothing in common hardware-wise, without even the courtesy of giving them memorably distinct code names (somehow, 'hero' and 'heroC' doesn't have quite the same ring as 'Elf' and 'Vogue').

If anything, if this site's software allows crosslinked forums (ie, one actual forum that appears to be a child of two different forums), it might not be a bad idea to create a "CDMA Android Phone" forum that's a subforum of both the CDMA Hero forum and the Droid Eris forum, for topics of overlapping interest to CDMA Android phone developers. I suspect the Droid Eris' kernel is as much of a mess as our is (if not substantially identical), and it might not be a bad idea to double the number of people *****ing at HTC on a daily basis. ;-)
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
So, basically, I need to file a complaint in order to get answers.

He also dodged my request for HTC to admit to violating the EULA. I'm still going to approach sprint for a full refund and break of contract... for both of my CMDA Hero's.

I'm going to ask for it to be pushed through the proper channels for filing a complaint.

Edit:

My reply

Some of you may think that I am being rude but I'm not satisfied with how HTC is treating this. As a customer I demand a certain amount of respect and HTC is not obliging us with it. Also, as a customer, I am right. It's really that simple... especially in this case. I'm not going to be nice and try to coax HTC in to releasing something it is required to release already. I paid my $530, I want what I'm owed.

But, it's been 3 months. So, I'll go get a Nexus One instead.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] askwhy:
Another avenue perhaps worth pursuing, although not direct, and even less likely to get results, is to complain to even larger entities.

The Better Business Bureau (BBB) will take complaints about any business, whether or not they are registered with the BBB.

The FCC will also take relevant complaints, and although they are not likely in a position to regulate or enforce the release of source code, it may still be worth complaining to them too.

Bottom line: it never looks good when you can report to a company such as HTC, truthfully, that you are filing formal complaints with large agencies that help maintain long-term public accountability. It is critical that if you take this step of informing HTC that you are complaining to other entities, that you actually follow-through and do so.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
wow I got the EXACT word for word copy and paste response. Sounds like Phillip is getting mad at having to field all the requests lol maybe once he goes nuts and tells his boos to shove it becuase of this they will take notice.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] darchstar:
Umm, I'm pretty sure both GSM and CDMA heroes are identical in every aspect hardware-wise except ours is CDMA and it has a different look
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
No. The Eris is the HTC Desire.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Mr. Biggz:
Anyone think to make a youtube video explaining everything? Seems like news channels pick up on some things if their posted there. That way we can have a "face" for our cause if you will.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
but who??? lol I know no one wants to see my ugly mug :D
[Hero CDMA Android Development] abcdfv:
I've been told I either look like Satan, or a 12 year old kid, so my face is probably not the best.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 98classic:
he also replied with "we dont have the source code available". its been repeated the source code isnt what the people are after, its the kernel. so people have to make sure what one is asking for.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] abcdfv:
We need the kernel source code :p
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
well this is the latest message that I got about 2 minutes ago

once again he dodged the EULA topic
[Hero CDMA Android Development] abcdfv:
I got

So pretty much

"Leave us alone, you'renot getting the source."
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
From the last time I read their forum, their code is in worse shape than ours. Apparently, Verizon patched all the exploits, so the developers with the Eris have been working extra hard trying to figure out how to root the damn thing. It's gotten to the point they are collecting a fund so that they can get more people involved to try to figure out how to root it.

As for kernel source code request, they have a thread for that (bet nobody is complaining over there) and they are getting the same runaround as we are.

Combine forces with the Eris people in requesting the kernel source may help. Couldn't hurt.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
Umm...hate to break this to you, but with a Nexus One, you're back in dealing with HTC again. Though you may get a better response since Google has put their reputation on the line with that phone.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
I think the guy who did the reverse engineering of the code also said the camera was completely different. That's in another thread.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
That's some backtracking on Phillip's part:

If they are going through the legal channels, wouldn't legal have the kernel source?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
I'm going to call HTC headquarters today and get some answers. Will post back with the results.

Edit: Just in case anyone else needs the contact info

HTC America 13920 SE Eastgate Way, Suite 400 Bellevue, Washington 98005 Tel: 425-679-5318

Double Edit:

Lol, it's an answering machine. I left a message, we'll see if they return the call.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
When you called, it was somewhere around 5:40am (they are on Pacific Standard Time). Try again around 11:30 EST and you may get a live voice.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
Ummm pretty sure we have a different Radio, Battery, and Camera. Our processor is an MSM7600, GSM is an MSM7200A.

Yeah We have different ***** hardware. ******.

Mod Edited: Please cool the language and be polite even when frustrated!!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
Ah, good idea.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] david_ag:
LOL.. I'm gonna suscribe to follow Kcarpenter's posts; the freaking truth and funny as hell :D
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
Just called, they're going to call me back when they find someone that knows the answers to my questions. It basically went like this:

HTC (female): Thank you for calling, blah blah blah, how may I direct your phone call?

Me: Well, I'm not too sure. I'm trying to get some information concerning my Sprint Hero device.

HTC: Oh, ok, let me see if I can get you the tech support number.

Me: Actually, Tech support directed me here. I am requesting a copy of the Kernel Source code for my device as stated in the End User License Agreement and the GPL is falls under.

HTC: Oh, ok... I think Legal handles this. Let me go ahead and transfer you.

*On Hold*

HTC: It looks like he's not in right now, would you like me to send you to his voice mail?

Me: Hmm. I don't think so. Is there another department that I can speak with concerning this matter? Maybe a complaint department?

HTC: I'm not sure. If you like, I can take down your name and number and get back to you once I find the correct person for this matter?

Me: Sure. My name is~(Yaddah yaddah yaddha). Tell them I am requesting the "Kernel Source Code" for my Sprint HTC Hero Device.

HTC: Great, I'll have someone call you back.

End.

Ok, so I left them a message which they didn't respond to. I called them and they have no idea how to handle this. So... again, a waiting game.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
That looks more promising than anything else we have so far. I don't expect you to get a response but it's definitely more hopeful than anything we have so far. All we need is the right customer service tech who feels they have to "do the right thing" and go out of their way to help us. It seems like a longshot but every service center has them. Good job mate.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gu1dry:
Um, Google is handling all the software side of the N1. They have even already release the kernel source for the N1...
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
WE HAVE A MOD!?!?!?!?!?!?!:confused:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gbhil:
My latest to HTC's Tech (non)Support. We need HTC to formally deny our requests before we can invoke any resource under their EULA.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
HTC isn't even responding to GPL requests, I sent a request via their online form to their support desk using a new (to HTC) email address from a different domain. Requesting the sources for the CDMA kernel and the sources for all the GPL'd software used on the phone.

No response 2 days later... They must be getting fed up with the queries for software.

-TL
[Hero CDMA Android Development] flexgrip:
Sorry for the lack of update. I had that big long response earlier. I finally got a hold of a very nice customer relations manager (female). Although she didn't even know what a kernel was, she said (keep in mind this is not an exact quote, just what I remember):

So I was on hold for about 15 minutes and she came back on the line and said:

I responded with the same thing in my previous post about how the GPL doesn't allow for that...

Then she said:

I responded with:

I was placed on hold once again and she came back and said

At this point I asked for a refund for my hero stating that they are in violation of their own EULA, by their own accord. She said that I would need to talk to Sprint about that and I forced the issue even more. She then mentioned that if the device was faulty she could approve a refund after 3 attempts at repair. I refused her answer several times and demanded a full refund. She promised to bring it up with her boss again and told me that if I didn't get the source code she would personally take-up the job of getting me my refund.

So the phone call ended with a sort-of promise. I have a case number through tech support because customer relations did not have a working ticketing system. It has been 48 hours since I have spoken with them. I will call tomorrow during lunch if I don't have a link in my email by then.

God, it was so damned hard to even get to a customer relations department person. I was told several times in a non-english dialect that it didn't even exist. The first two levels of people I had to go through had no clue about the kernel and basically told me if it wasn't on developer.htc.com then it wasn't available yet. One person even told me that if it wasn't there then HTC might not want to release it to the public because of "security reasons".

I am thinking that they are going to try to slide it buy with the 2.1 release, even though they cannot do that. I also think they might be ripping out all of the compiled htc contributions and slapping them into modules. I really hope they don't think they can do that.

Once again none of these are exact quotes since I didn't document the call. And my theories are just that... theories. I just wonder why they wouldn't want us to have it.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] afazel:
Interesting. We shall see.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] darchstar:
Correction, he didn't say that the camera was "completely different", all he said was that it uses a different driver than the gsm hero, so that woudn't neccesarily mean the camera is that much different than the gsm hero's camera
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
So HTC isn't involved? Not only am I mistaken, but SWEET!!!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
I also said the words "I think"...I wasn't 100% sure about it, but I did know he's having issues getting the camera to work (though it looks like he's making some pretty good progress on it).

Technically, it's different enough where it does not use the same driver. Quality...probably no difference. But it's different enough where the GSM drivers won't work.

To me, that's completely different.

I guess it's just how you look at it.