yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Thanks for the GPL kernel details. You addressed the GPL issues with modules very well. However, you can't put proprietary code directly in the kernel itself without invoking the GPL, correct?

The CDMA Hero has the .config accessible via /proc/config.gz, so we know for a fact that there are no modules built with the kernel (there is no instance of '=m' in that file). The config option that calls for the "missing" files is set to build in the monolithic kernel itself (CONFIG_MACH_HEROC=y).

The only module in /system/lib/modules is the wlan.ko (use of which is common across a number of HTC Android platforms, and only loaded when you enable the WiFi interface). I highly doubt that the HTC specifics are in that module, since it spends most of its time unloaded (unless you use the 802.11 radio). Otherwise 'lsmod' returns nothing.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] justinisyoung:
man, these guys aren't really helpful at all.

this must be my fifth email to them.

We do understand your concern and frustration in this matter and currently the HTC Hero kernel offered on developer.HTC.com is still capable of meeting your developmental needs for applications that can operate on either HTC Hero phone. We thank you for your concern in the matter and will relay the information to the proper department for further review. Please visit HTC.com and follow developer.HTC.com for any additional information and updates as they become available.

Philip

HTC Technical Support

www.htc.com
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
I have now directly asked them for contact information for their legal department or any other part of the company who could help, I still have not recieved a reply on this. Has anyone contacted any of the legal organizations to see if they could help move HTC along?

I emailed information@EFF to see if they could get me more information or help and have yet to hear back. :(
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gu1dry:
I contacted GNU/FSF. No reply yet.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
lol at least yours was signed phillip and not kay
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
GPL-Violations.ORG's Reply to me:

I will bash some heads in again at Google (HTC is their preferred

hardware partner or whatever).

armijn

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

armijn@gpl-violations.org || http://www.gpl-violations.org/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Nice work! I'm also sending a very detailed request to HTC so that I have a personal paper trail (not based on hearsay) to engage gpl-violations.org. They get stuff done!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
For documentation's purpose, here is my request to HTC. NOBODY has my permission to copy and paste any portion of this text. This is MY PERSONAL REQUEST to HTC for the source code. I am claiming copyright on this text, and not under any open-source license ;) . As soon as we start copy/pasting requests, we are not sincerely requesting anything, we are simply harassing them.

Added: HTC Support Case # 591050
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
I noticed a new thread today that is an important one to keep an eye on.

[DEV] Reverse engineering the kernel

Obviously, don't clutter up this useful thread with non-technical stuff that won't contribute anything, but read it well. maejrep has basically done exactly what needs to be done to demonstrate why HTC needs to release more source code. Right now, the important takeaway is that the kernel source HTC *has* released does not produce a bootable CDMA kernel (although it can be made at least compile-able with forged file names, impressive!).
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Well, I didn't get a "no" yet. Hopefully they actually sent it to someone that will understand the request. I think if the request can make it to an actual developer instead of tech support, then they will understand what is being requested, as well as already have good familiarity with the GPL. Anything sent to legal people, and not coming from a lawyer, is not likely to go anywhere, IMO. Even if I can get to a dev that recognizes the need to release the source, I expect it'll still have a bit of a delay to go through a legal review.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
This maybe the biggest advancment thus far.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
FYI, I started a discussion on the legal@gpl-violations.org mailing list in order to get some feedback from people that have already been down this road. There's some good info showing up already. You can view the archives at lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] romeosidvicious:
You are excluded from enforcing any part of the GPL if you are not a contributor to the software in question. You are not in any way excluded from asking for the source that you believe should have already been released but you are not able to enforce its release. I am sorry if I wasn't clear on that point. My overall point is that the threatening e-mails to HTC won't have much effect at all since I haven't seen anyone in this thread who has a valid claim to enforce the GPL. In essence the threats amount to "Give us what we want or we'll try to find someone who can make you" and nothing more. Specifically your request, citing the GPL, carries no weight because you cannot invoke the GPL for code that you don't hold the copyright to. Sure you can request the code but your quasi-threats hold no weight at all and may serve to annoy those in charge of releasing the code. Annoying those folks is not a way to get anything done at all. They could decide to provide the code to you as a print out, double spaced, and shipped via the postal system and charge you for printing it and postage and still be in compliance with the GPL.

Not necessarily. Check out the system library exclusions as well. Also remember the Linux kernel is GPLv2 so anything GPLv3 related doesn't apply here.

If they modified existing code in the kernel then they are subject to the GPL. If they added code in the form of system libraries or anything that doesn't link against a short list of GPL_ONLY code without modifying the existing code then they don't have to release their changes. They can add to the kernel all day long with proprietary blobs as long as they don't modify existing code. Just because it compiles as a monolithic kernel doesn't mean they modified code.

Now in reality they probably did modify code and they probably need to release under the GPL but the fact is there is no proof yet and no-one here has a valid GPL claim that can be enforced. The EFF might do something and they might not. HTC violated the GPL with their delayed code releases the last couple of times and those were more public than the CDMA code for the Hero. The EFF may decide that it's not worth the bother since by the time anything went to court the source would be out already.

HTC sucks but quasi-threats from people who can't enforce them even if they hired lawyers will do no-one any good and makes the OSS community look rather like jack-booted thugs. If polite reminders and requests don't work then the issue needs to be handed over to those with the authority to enforce the GPL on this kernel and let them handle it. My points were that there is little proof that anything mentioned here would be covered by the GPL and even if it were that the methods being used to request the code are usually pretty high up on the counter-productive methods scale.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gu1dry:
It's nice to see it has gotten Google's attention & they are going to put some pressure on HTC.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] irishman06:
Haha. A quick, potentially non-relevant side note:

If we need an actual GPL copyright holder for the Linux kernel, I can lean on my alma mater. I was reading through the stuff in About -> Legal per the gpl-violations list, and there's a not insignificant number of references to the Computer Science department there.

Also, what about Sprint's internal developers? Is it possible HTC provided a kernel that was "CDMA-ready," and Sprint took over from there? Should we sent a support request to Sprint?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
Don't want this thread to Die.

Have we heard anything in the last few days???????

HTC Support can only give me the mailing address of their Legal Department, no electronic means of communication.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
That's because lawyers only send things certified mail.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
I think we should not only contact HTC for the kernel sources but Sprint as well. HTC can *almost* make the argument that they made the phone for Sprint and Sprint is the distributor of the phone (and code). The only hole in that argument is HTC (I believe) makes a flash image available on their site for download, and as we know, if you make the binaries available you need to make the sources available....
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
No, actually HTC cannot make that claim in any way. The only license that allows HTC to sell the phone to Sprint is the GPL. If they choose not to follow the GPL, then they are enjoined from distributing software covered by it.

Sprint, likewise, is required to comply with the GPL, as they also distribute software covered by it. I'd imagine, though, that to get a court to listen to you about *that* license violation, you would have to prove that they had the source (via HTC) and did not distribute it to you when you asked. You cannot penalize them if they have no more access to the source than you do.

Presuming, of course, that you have standing at all.

Where these things get really weird under the GPL is where party A (HTC) stops distributing the covered code, but party B (Sprint) still is.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Mr. Biggz:
Finally a logical response. I just thought of this, can we compare the two stock hero applications in terms of system packages to see if there is anything there. Sorry if this sounds redundant.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
He's saying there's an enabler that's running, and it's not covered by the GPL. What he's saying makes sense, but then you have to reconcile it with the configuration that the kernel actually running on the device is exporting.

It sounds like they wrote some glue to fake out the kernel, while allowing the kernel to get access to this support the enabler provides. They're not providing the glue and the glue isn't part of the kernel, so it's not GPL either. Note that *even if you had the glue*, you don't have the enabler other than the binary that's already on the phone.

I've run into a couple of applications that think the CDMA Hero is a GSM device, here could be why.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] obelisk79:
the other issue, is that we cannot even compile a kernel that the phone will boot with the source code provided. We could attempt to make headway in reverse engineering the sprint cdma network if it even booted.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Merckle:
Grats to everyones effort on this!!!!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
Only problem with HTC's argument is that the Kernel will not complile without the files we are looking for, so that means the kernel was modified and the modifications would fall under the GPL along with the modules that are required to compile the kernel.

Now it may have been HTC's intent to keep these modules seperate from the GPL but failed to do so.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
That is obviously not HTC's position. And they may not be wrong, either.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Sorry for requoting all of this, but my reply needs context (especially since its a page later). I'm not sure exactly what you requested from HTC, but from what I have seen at least part of their argument is likely correct. They do have binary applications separate from the kernel that are required to make use of the carrier-specific features, and I cannot see that they are under any obligation to share the code for those.

However, part of their argument is also flat-out wrong. They wrote "In short there are no modifications of the existing kernel that we have attempted to provide you from our developer site (http://developer.htc.com/)", but that has been proven inaccurate. The CDMA kernel *is* different from the GSM kernel, and the HTC-provided source WILL NOT BUILD a CDMA kernel as configured on our devices due to missing files. See the thread entitled "[DEV] Reverse engineering the kernel".

They have NOT provided the entire kernel source tree to build the CDMA kernel. However, due to HTC-proprietary binary applications I'm not sure that having the source for just the CDMA kernel will be as useful as expected (but it would be nice to build an HTC-identical kernel with debug features disabled to check out the performance increase).

Also, they specify "Additionally, I do also want to remind you that the kernel is provided only for developmental purposes of user contributed applications and data outside the existing functionality of the equipment". Since the Linux kernel is required to be released by HTC under the GPL (or at least the GPL portions of it), they cannot dictate how it can and can not be used. They are required to release it no matter what we want to do with it. They may HOPE that it is being released only for development of "user contributed applications" (for which it would actually not be terribly helpful, under the Android architecture), but they don't really have the rights to make that decision.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] travo1:
I was requesting what everyone else is after the CDMA kernel source code only. I personally think HTC is just a company of a'holes... I couldn't stand having anything to deal with them when I was with sprint and def. not now.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
I didn't want to make assumptions. Thanks for the clarification.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
They specifally point out that something was written for Sprint. Sprint is not the only carrier of this hardware. if something was written specically for sprint, there network must be vastly different than Cell South or Verizon. Both of those carrier a Hero-ish device that runs the same set of software. Not saying that HTC is full of shi----, but they are.

I don't get why the released HERO files but not HEROC. Obviously the build is different for one than it is the other or they wouldn't have to different sets of files. Why are the HEROC files so top secret. They couldn't be that much freaking different than the HERO files.---I gues just different enough to give us a kernel that is useless.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] romeosidvicious:
They have not failed to do so. They have to modify source in order to have the GPL virally cover their modules. If they modified a Makefile it wouldn't make any difference at all and all they would have to do is provide the modifications to the Makefile and not to whatever it points at if you want a strict reading. If they did, as it is looking like they did, build binary drivers within the kernel source tree it does not count as modifying the kernel. In other words if they can drop their source for the drivers into the tree they already released and compile them without any changes to that source then they are fine. They don't have to release the code to anyone at that point even if the kernel won't build without it. They only have to release their modifications to existing code. It sounds like this is exactly what they did.

Check the GPL it does not require the code be runnable, compilable or anything else. It only requires it be made available. There can even be a charge for the media the code is provided on if a company wants to be really asinine about it. Heck they could get third graders to copy it onto un-rules paper with crayons, drop it in the mail, and be compliant.

Just because you can't compile a working kernel for the CDMA version of the Hero doesn't mean that HTC modified the kernel. It could mean the CDMA hero runs a tainted kernel and no further code is required to be released by the GPL. And from HTC's response it looks exactly like this is what is happening.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] travo1:
I can honestly say there's really nothing different that comes to mind on how sprints CDMA network works versus any other CDMA carrier.

No worries I completely understand I read through every page to see what had been going on with all of the confusion I can def. understand why clarification would be in order.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
If HTC has any sense, they'll build all their crap as dyn-loaded modules outside of the kernel tree next time around. It blows my mind that they didn't do it that way to start with. They already have the one wlan.ko module, why not htc_cdma.ko and htc_gsm.ko modules? They could make some very simple [released] changes in the kernel and just expose a generic HTC interface to the modules. Not very kernel-dev friendly, but it would keep a lot of people from harassing them.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Nanan00:
I was wondering the same thing, it seems like they are trying to hide something with the way they went about rigging the kernel to run on CDMA.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] the_miker:
I'll admit I haven't read this entire thread but has anyone tried actually calling HTC up? Email is good and all but sometimes it's best to actually speak to a live person. Maybe if you can reach the right department you'll be able to get a legitimate response out of somebody.

I'm willing to give it a shot. Does anybody know of a direct line into the right department? If not, I'll just try the customer service number(s) on their site. In fact, it wouldn't hurt if lots of us did this. The more people they get complaining, the more likely they are to actually give us what we want (and are entitled to).
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Why don't you start with reading the entire thread.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
HTC tossed out an update for the GSM Hero today:

The ROM version is 2.73.771.73 (H3G). If it has a new kernel in it, then HTC owes us a new tarball...

**Edit** Eh, nevermind. It looks like its just a Cupcake (1.5) maintenance release. I guess I'm just grasping at straws here.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
ROFL, I'm not even going to explain why this is funny. :p
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
I know, I was laughing as I wrote it but by then the words were already out.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] the_miker:
So I tried calling them twice this afternoon. First guy I talked to had no idea what I was talking about nor who to even transfer me to. The second time I called a different guy told me my call was re-routed to some place on the east coast because nobody at the Washington headquarters was picking up.

I give up for the day. I'll try again on Monday and maybe these people won't be suffering from Friday mentality.

Also, every automated response on their phone menus talked about the Nexus, so maybe they're just busy taking a bunch of calls about that?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] travo1:
That's a possibility... but honestly anyone you will talk to on the phone will not know anything about this nor have the access to it. Youre better off with emails, or letters. Not to sound pessimistic or anything though but I dont think it will get any of us very far at all unless you find some moron who doesn't like their job or life..
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Jwahlg:
Perhaps if I walked into the the Corp. office for the united states, and asked nicely for it?

The complex is only a ten minute drive from my old work, we actually used to have some drivers deliver there htc gave them a bunch of free phones if they stayed on the route for very long, wish I got them kind of perks delivering packages
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] iridium21:
3 horizontal and 6 (or more) vertical - is it possible?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] morpheus1982:
There are already CABS available for 16 or 20 quick links available. I think 20 is the maximum so far as all the buttons have to fit on one screen and still look good.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] maxnik1:
Yes, but they change the row to 4 or 5 links.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Archer:
You can't go any further than the 2nd page when you scroll down, so no, you can't have more if you only want 3 horizontally.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] iridium21:
Oh, ok. That's a pity :(
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Syphon Filter:
What I dont get is why the Home Tab needs to be "paged" like that. The internet tab is not paged and you can add 20+ favourites shortcuts in there. Why can the home tab not be made to function like that?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hadramos:
Hi,

I just installed the ROM v4.2.11.1 Cyanogen on my HTC Dream Orange v1.1

I followed the instructions in this guide :

http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php/Full_Update_Guide_-_G1/Dream_Firmware_to_CyanogenMod

I had no problem for the update but I Accelerometer does not work !!!

I followed the instructions from the FAQ :

http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/wiki/FAQ

but to no avail, still no Accelerometer...

Have you ideas?

Thanks
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] B-man007:
if you have amon_ra's recovery, go to Other and click clear rotation settings
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hadramos:
Hi,

I just tried but unfortunately it does not change anything :(

This version of the ROM Cyanogen she has a problem with Orientation?

Is what I am the only one having this problem?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] B-man007:
is it only on the home screen or do apps that use the accelerometer that dont work either
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] swanniebroo:
Hi,

I have the same problem - you posted in my thread.

It is in all apps that use the accelerometer.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] 4k4b:
Same problem here! :\
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] SeEsAw12:
Re-flash ROM?

wipe it all and do it again.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] r4d14n7:
And try a different ROM if that doesn't work.
[myTouch 3G, Magic General] chrisgto4:
I have been looking for an app that will lock my orientation sideways. Any suggestions. I have searched and all I can find is a widget to turn off screen orientation,and doin that makes the screen stay in regular position.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Kenno78:
Hello, I've just upgraded my phone from a Touch Diamond1 to a Touch Pro2. With my previous Diamond1 it went without question that you cleared the internal phone storage with MTTY "task 29" before you flashed a new ROM.

I've noticed here on the Rhodium forums that no one makes mention of it. I don't believe I have even seen one chef in the ROM thread mention it at all. Is it an unspoken truth, or is it just not necessary to do?
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] TaurusBullba R.I.P.:
It's not necessary at all. Just HSPL and flash away. :)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Kenno78:
Thanks mate! Well that makes things easier!!

Just thought I'd ask because pretty much all of the problems people seem to be having in the ROM thread are the same kind of problems we had with the Diamond1. Pretty much all of these problems were solved by using MTTY before flashing.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] sx1-doc:
SE is testing wm6.5.1 on X2 ,build 23090 .

small proof

http://www.glbenchmark.com/resultdetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro&resultid=9202575&D=Sony Ericsson hhhhhh

that means they updated the panels and the rest to work good with the new builds