yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cteneyck:
well after talking with my attorney friend. he basically stated that the only person we could sue was linus torvalds. And this was for not "protecting" our rights to the kernel source. I am not even going to entertain the thought of this. so i will be buying a nexus one and going with tmobile. i hate to do it. i have been a sprint customer for 4 years and love there rate plans and service. however i cannot wait for sprint or htc to get off their butt and release the kernel source for the cdma hero. i will simply go mainstream and buy the gsm phone where i can continue my learning on a platform that has the necisary code im looking for.

God i hope nothing happens when they port my number.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Well if you want to stick it HTC, then don't buy a Nexus One. Its the exact same company!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] johnsongrantr:
me thinks someone is stretching the truth a bit
[Hero CDMA Android Development] mcgrathx:
Aren't you over-reacting just a tad? Were you seriously thinking of suing someone because you can't develop software for a phone? Hardly seems worthwhile.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] johnsongrantr:
i think you linked the wrong quote, the one you linked actually sounds like a valid reason for switching to t-mobile ;) i might actually do the same once i get some cash together for the ETF
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
The whole purpose many of us bought an Android phone is not because of the "cool" or function of it. We bought it because of the purpose behind Android. Android was an open source project initially designed to start a new revolution in cell phones and encourage openess in the market and between competitors. Same thing with linux, it was started so you aren't tied down to a certain company dependant on one certain feature or at their mercy with what you get or in this case what you don't get.

I bought my Android because it was Open, or so I thought. ;)

“Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer.”
[Hero CDMA Android Development] mrinehart93:
Exactly the same reason I bought my Hero and not an iPhone.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
Sprint just raised the "other" fees by $0.40 per line... you can use it to get out of your contract. The fees took effect your first bill after Jan 1, 2010.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 5tr4t4:
Android is not living up to its initial potential

Android is not living up to its initial potential and Google knows it. I am constantly impressed by the progress on these forums, but we should not have to waste our life blood just to get Android running on our devices. It should be "download, compile, flash, run". The interesting part happens AFTER that: how we improve, optimize, customize, and re-imagine Android. Watching the incredible progress made here and on the GSM forums (even without the code!), I can only image how great Android could be with a truly open model.

I think Nexus is a sign that Google knows they have to step in and assert some authority. If they can manage to make a centralized, de facto Android image (with code and sdk online), then all we would need from HTC or Moto, etc, is their proprietary drivers/libs. In my opinion we should not be looking to Sprint or HTC, etc, for updates, instead we should be doing everything we can to route around them. They obviously don't know what they are doing and/or have no intention of enabling a developer community. Even if HTC's code were released this afternoon, it would be too little too late...and their history gives us every reason to suspect they will just do the same thing again next time.

I understand that (re-)writing drivers is hard work, I'm not necessarily proposing this as the only way. Perhaps Google can be persuaded to strong-arm HTC et al into releasing their stuff, even just driver binaries. Android cannot continue with the current level of version fragmentation and Google knows it (1.5, 1.6, 2.0, and 2.1 are ALL running on various devices!!). We'll see, I'm optimistic even with all of the trouble.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cteneyck:
No.... i was trying to see if there was a way to get a judge to issue an injunction to keep htc from selling this phone till the code was released. filing a motion to get an injunction is not suing. I want what we all want " to develope the the kernel source for the cdma kernel" and if i cant do that then i will purchase a phone that is designed for a developer.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
It's not so much being worth while as it is a principal. One of the big selling points for me was that Android was supposed to be open source, because I want to learn how to develop apps and such.

Now that being said what the great developers here have had to do is piece everything together on their own. I compare it to trying to build a house without a blue print, can it be done? Of course it can. But how much faster and better could that house be built if you had the blue print as a base?

That's what we want is the base. That's the whole point in this system. Someone much smarter than I created a base, they said anyone can use this to suite what they need, just do the right thing and if you change it to make it better share it with everyone as I have with you.

HTC took the base changed it and. Still has not done the right thing by releasing what they did.

That. Is why this is a big deal.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Tipharet:
My opinion, is the kernel will be released once HTC/Sprint gets their 2.1 out. They know once that would be released, dev community would have a 2.1 out within 24 hours, when it has taken and will take them months more.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] djsplitimage:
Ok, so this is perhaps my ignorance showing as far as developing and programming is concerned, but I read in the dev site that what was released included drivers for the camera. The 2.1 build that we have stickied now was just missing the camera function....couldn't this potentially solve that problem, hence bringing us a fully functioning 2.1 build? :confused:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] toastcfh:
we need to build a kernel with msm-camera enabled to use the camera in the current 2.1 build i do. the problem is we dont have the files need to build a working kernel for the heroc. the camera stuff is in the source yes. but its not enabled in our kernel. we cant even build loadable modules with our kernel the way its configured. well we could but they would cause major havoc
[Hero CDMA Android Development] realmrealm:
some thoughts

Please when requesting that HTC release source that you are requesting:

"the CDMA Sprint HERO kernel source code"

Some people are still requesting "the source code", it is not the source code for the whole phone that falls under the GPL, just the kernel. (Plus that's the only part that we really need to do what we need to do to finish up with 2.1)

If you really want to start getting through to them and get some action I would think that lots of people doing all these things would work:

* keep sending them emails, when they do not respond or respond with a false answer send another email and include why their answer was false.

* They seem to be big twitter people, and it seems like their developers (or at least the people that know the developers) post on their twitter (HTC) - let them know on twitter how you feel about them not releasing the CDMA Hero kernel source code, and that they are violating the GPL, and their own EULA. They have a lot of customers see that feed, and they won't like their customers seeing that they are doing something wrong.

* Start writing Gizmodo, Android And Me, Boy Genius Report, Androinica, Lifehacker, and any other android friendly publication. If someone will post an article (possibly linking back to this thread, and our fruitless plight) that would get some exposure that HTC wouldn't want.

* I am not a code person, but from what I understand if you have worked on the kernel, or contributed that your name and email address is added to some type of file included with a copy of the kernel. Can someone find this file (online, not on the phone) and the names / email addresses of the people that DO have the right to yell about the source code not being released, and lets all let them know what's going on, and they may decide to start something.

............

I know that this is kind of like guerrilla marketing, but they are kind of F'n with us with these responses that they keep giving. They know what's going on, and they keep trying to side step our questions. I know that many will disagree with this tactic, and I'm not quite sure whether I fully agree with it yet either, but if this is what you want then this is how I propose (at this point) that we get it.

.... my $0.02

-AndyS-
[Hero CDMA Android Development] miamicanes:
@toastcfh:

I'm trying to get a better understanding of how the files you mentioned fit together, and their roles in the process of creating an Android 2.1 distro with working camera for the CDMA Hero

msm_camera is a loadable kernel module, right?

are msm_camera, libcamera.so and libqcamera.so files we're trying (and unable) to BUILD from the source we have, or are they files we need in order to build the OTHER camera-related files from the source we already have?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] quietcblongs:
msm_camera is a kernel module that is "built-in", not a loadable one like wlan.ko. It presents devices used by user-space shared libraries/applications.

Building libcamera.so requires libqcamera.so (1.5/1.6) or liboemcamera.so (2.x) among other things.

The 2.x camera situation is this:

1. The current (and only) 2.6.27 CDMA kernel presents a certain set of devices in /dev that is understood and usable by libqcamera.so from the stock 1.5 ROM

2. Trying to build libcamera for use in a Android 2.x ROM fails because the code within AOSP is incomplete, and libcamera won't build correctly because the code for it is outdated. There is other code that's been changed that affects the libcamera source code, but the libcamera source does not reflect those changes.

3. Even if the code is complete, libcamera won't build correctly with the 1.5 libqcamera because libqcamera relies on things that have since changed in 2.0. I tried to "fix" libcamera, and got far enough to find this out.

Its a convoluted mess at the moment, to say the least. At the minimum, we need:

1. a new libqcamera, or more likely, a liboemcamera that works with our camera hardware.

2. a new kernel that presents devices that the liboemcamera expects to be there
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
I am a developer...just not a C++ developer. There are other languages that people build programs on.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
I think you are correct. That's the impression I'm getting from this response:

---------------------

Hello Robert,

I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its abilities. Unfortunately, I do not have a time frame for when the CDMA Hero code will be available, although I do know that we are currently going through the legal channels that we must go through on this end to make the source code available. When it is available, it will be found on developer.htc.com. I appreciate your enthusiasm for your phone. I hope the code is available soon for you, and once again I thank you for your patience.

Philip

HTC Technical Support

www.htc.com

-------------------------
[Hero CDMA Android Development] miamicanes:
OK, I've seen "2.6.29" (kernel?) thrown around a lot in the context of msm_camera and 2.1. How does IT factor into the equation (or does it?)

Suppose that by some miracle, HTC were to refactor their kernel source so that msm_camera's code was removed from the kernel, and moved into a brand new msm_camera.ko built specifically for HTC's internal heroc 2.1 build. Then, in an act of unprecedented kindness, they grabbed that msm_camera.ko, plus liboemcamera.so and libqcamera.so (libqoemcamera.so? liboemqcamera.so?), zipped them up, and posted them to developer.htc.com. Would that basically be the magic key everyone needs, or are there other factors involved?

Assuming AOSP diverges from whatever HTC is likely to be doing for its own 2.1, just how big is that divergence known/likely to be? For example, if HTC already has their own camera driver working with their own 2.1 build, how hard would it likely be for one of their developers to tweak their library to make it compatible with AOSP? Or, from the opposite perspective, if they threw the code at us "as is" and said, "it works for us, now go away and leave us alone", how hard would it be (both technically and politically) to make AOSP compatible with HTC's hypothetical library?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
That's the most honest and informative answer we've seen from HTC so far.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] silentshab:
I personally believe that these two methods would work fastest. If they get 1000 emails, no one hears about it. But if they get 1000 tweets, or an article on Engadget, it's bad PR. This is basically what happened with the GSM Hero:

slashdot article - tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/16/1720224/HTC-Dragging-Feet-On-GPL-Source-Release-For-Hero-Phone

acknowledgement - twitter.com/htc/status/4928377685

compliance - twitter.com/htc/status/5071201112

admission of responsibility - twitter.com/htc/status/5071514606

(sorry, I've been a member for almost 3 years but this is my first post... can't post links)

I tweeted the following, please retweet or write your own similar: @htc When can we expect to see the CDMA (Sprint) Hero kernel source code? It's been 3 months, this is ridiculous! #gplviolation
[Hero CDMA Android Development] beyondinferno:
Just posted this on twitter. We'll see what they have to say.

@htc Still waiting for the Kernel for the CDMA Hero.... Kinda sucks I can't use my phone as advertised!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] FoxRacR17:
I'm not a member of twitter and didnt really want to join, but i will join just to help the cause!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 702DROID:
i emailed engaget and included a link to this page maybe hopefully they will get a story published to catch HTC's Attn
[Hero CDMA Android Development] FoxRacR17:
signed up at twitter and sent HTC a tweet or whatever, hopefully i did it right :confused:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] the_miker:
Judging from the past few email responses people have posted here and the one they just sent me (below), looks like they're being more truthful about this issue now..
[Hero CDMA Android Development] realmrealm:
wow!

Great job guys, keep it going.

I'm writing to the authors of android articles on tech websites. I'm not writing the publisher, I think that the writers are more in control of what they write about.

I posted.....

.....on twitter, but it doesn't seem to have shown up in their feed. I have no clue how twitter works. do they have to approve it to have it show up?

-AndyS-
[Hero CDMA Android Development] the_miker:
I responded to the guy who got back to me (David @ HTC Tech Support). I asked him if the holdup was due to a technical or legal problem and this was his response..

If customer support doesn't have access to information like that, who would?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
No idea. When I asked for contact information for whomever was actually working on my GPL request, I received the following reply:

HTC personnel seem to intentionally avoid taking any responsibility or having any accountability for support requests. That is a piss-poor way to run a business, and I'd be fired for taking that approach.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
If you post a tweet regarding this, please be sure to include @htc, @sprint, and add the #gplviolation hashtag for tracking purposes.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] setaside:
Just posted "Want the newest version of Android on your @sprint Hero? Ask @htc to release the source for CDMA kernel required by GPL. #gplviolation"

Doing my part.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Anyone want to type up an executive summary of the situation and post it on a website that can withstand high-volume? If something like Engadget or Slashdot does actually pick up this story, this site will be ./ed instantly and noone will read the stoary.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
Phillip was a little more forthcoming:

---------------------

Hello Robert,

I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its abilities. Unfortunately, I do not have a time frame for when the CDMA Hero code will be available, although I do know that we are currently going through the legal channels that we must go through on this end to make the source code available. When it is available, it will be found on developer.htc.com. I appreciate your enthusiasm for your phone. I hope the code is available soon for you, and once again I thank you for your patience.

Philip

HTC Technical Support

www.htc.com

-------------------------
[Hero CDMA Android Development] the_miker:
I asked David if there was another department I could get ahold of

and

how to actually go about contacting them. This was his response..

Duuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[Hero CDMA Android Development] swaze:
For what its worth, here is a response I received from them a little while ago.

"Hello Patrick, I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities. We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review. When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again. You can find additional support at our user forum www.htcwiki.com. There is also a customer satisfaction survey for you to take if you are interested. Philip HTC Technical Support www.htc.com "
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 5tr4t4:
In other words, put aside the idea that HTC will ever release code in time to be useful to users or developers.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
Think the "Legal" department has a Change Window? Wonder how long they have.....:(

Sarcasm BTW...
[Hero CDMA Android Development] watzone69:
NICE! They send you to a BS user forum and then ask you to take a "user satisfaction" survey???

This is more ridiculous each day!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] 5tr4t4:
When the code does drop, we will have definitive proof of whether they have been violating the GPL. THAT will be a major story for Slashdot/Engadget.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] david279:
http://www.androidguys.com/2010/01/13/europes-htc-hero-to-get-android-2-1-mid-february/

2.1 may come soon.....just something to ease the pain.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
Good to know they are ditchibg the tattoo. What a waste
[Hero CDMA Android Development] abcdfv:
I got the same response, word for word.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] afazel:
The 2.1 kernel should be the same on both devices since 1.6+ has CDMA support, correct?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
I would assume so but you never know what HTC might have decided to do.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Nanan00:
Well from what HTC has said thus far we should be able to strait up slap a 2.1 ROM for the Euro Hero on our phones and have it run just fine, seeing as they didn't alter the kernel in any way.

[/sarcasm]

HTC has seriously hurt their image in my mind with this bull**** they are pulling. This whole situation flies in the face of and against the spirit of the Android platform, thus far HTC has proven themselves to be nothing but a bunch of dickheads on par with Apple.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Apple has never pretended to be open-source, or really open at all. HTC exploited the openness of Android and has made a joke out of it.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
Yeah but I hate Apple so it's fun to blame them for everything including the United States economy and the fact that people actually still listen to what Perez Hilton says.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] deadonarivalry:
@htc So we can expect to see the CDMA/Sprint Hero kernel source code soon right? It's been 3 months, this is ridiculous! #gplviolation

From my twitter. Anyone interested can follow me @vh1soulcrusher
[Hero CDMA Android Development] afazel:
bump? Back from the dead!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] maejrep:
bump: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=5391610#post5391610
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
Yeah buddy. Looks like we may be able to close this thread soon. You watch though. Freakin HTC will release their kernel after this is 100%. Whatever. I would still use Maejrep's cause he is awesome!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
of course HTC will release theirs once this is 100% becuase then they can look like the good guys to the gen pop and say see we did just what we are supposed to. when the actual situation is that now they have no reason to hide.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
I'd suggest keeping the support tickets open with HTC, do not close them or let HTC close them. Even if they don't respond I guarentee you that cases that stay open for an extended period of time raise red flags in their reporting system.

Remember HTC's ticketing system will auto close if no new entries have occured within the last two weeks.

-TL
[Hero CDMA Android Development] rt1oo:
why does HTC have to be so annoying about this
[Hero CDMA Android Development] willowmp:
Just trying to keep the ball tumbling...
[Hero CDMA Android Development] rt1oo:
that's *kernel*
[Hero CDMA Android Development] willowmp:
Oops, lol now I feel like an idiot.

Oh well its been a long day. Happy hour isn't helping.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wtphoto:
sent HTC another e-mail again lets see what they send back this time.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] flexgrip:
Is that true about their TOS stating they have to provide the source to you? And do we know if it is grounds for a refund. Seems like a long shot but if it is not, that really would be the best way to get their attention. Or at least escalate the issue.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
Their End User License Agreement states that, for 3 years after the software is released, the end user may request a link to the source code by requesting it from Customer Service at www.htc.com. The EULA states that, once the request is made, HTC will provide you with a link to the source.

The EULA is in your phone: Settings -> About Phone -> Legal Information -> HTC Legal. It's near the bottom of the document.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] oxeneers:
Thanks for everything, guys. Has fresh sent an email yet? We got to get our leader to help out! Haha.

Here's my email:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
Sent a second email.

I'm demanding the kernel or a refund.

We'll see.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] pulser_g2:
Has anyone managed to get this to the attention of engadget etc.

Or at least digg or /. ?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
If you want a news site to pick it up, you'll need a concise news story for them to link to. Its not going to get linked from a high-volume site with the only story being a 36-page forum thread. News sites are for those with short attention spans.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] fatkitty420:
We'll see. I just emailed all the editors at Engadget with a link to the forum -

Someone should make a blog post on this. If Engadget sees an email concerning this topic and others are picking up on it they may decide to "break the story first".