yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] MrGreg:
Yeah, they sent me an airave, but it can't get a GPS signal in the building. I'll keep screwing around with it though. I'll stop hijacking this thread now, thanks.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Redneck101:
HTC Hero Kernel Source Code	49.6 MB	2009/10/22 shes out! Does this mean more support for non sprint heros?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] abcdfv:
The 2009/10/22 means it was released October 22nd, 2009...
[Hero CDMA Android Development] wakeboarder1335:
I'm assuming that since your sig says Appalachian wireless, you are using a CDMA HTC Hero which is essentially the same as the Sprint HTC Hero in that it operates on a CDMA network. The source code currently listed on HTC's site is for the GSM version of the Hero. We need the CDMA version source code which has yet to be released.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] willowmp:
Lol I feel you bro.

No dice in the morning...lol.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
HTC FAIL. Where's our Gero kernel code?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
So, it turns out that the reason for the delay is that its just taking them a little longer than expected to run `find sourcedir -type "*.c" -exec sed 's/HEROC/GEROC/g' {} \;`. ;)
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
Ha ha. Nice.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
In real news... I followed up on the request I sent them on 1/5, as I had not heard anything back from them (I never received the "it'll be out this weekend" message). I simply asked for contact information for whomever was working on my request so that i could followup with them directly (and verify that my request hadn't been sent to /dev/null). Here's the <sarcasm>exceptionally helpful</sarcasm> reply I got:
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
Anybody else notice this page is off line currently? 10:30 AM Eastern Time here.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
I guess it's time for all of us to respond to HTC's messages that the source was going to be released over the weekend. Maybe the'll clarify what they meant by this weekend.

Of course I can keep defending their release methods... maybe HTC meant the source was going to be released from development to the web admins to post, now the web admins are sitting on it until their change window :)

Of course it would make too much sense to list when the code would actually show up on their website.

TL
[Hero CDMA Android Development] animal7296:
It is online for me. Still nothing. :(
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
I think that is a fair thing to ask them. Its always good to have specific information. Assumptions lead to disappointment.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] afazel:
It's not down for me at 9:48 Central, 10:48 Eastern.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] crunchybutternut:
Site working at 11:02 Eastern, but still no source..
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
Just in case anyone wants it:

http://www.changedetection.com/

will watch a website for changes, then email you if it does. I have it pointed to developer.HTC.com and hopefully it will email me. Better than hitting refresh every hour.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] toastcfh:
Haha. Great idea:D
[Hero CDMA Android Development] dchadwick:
I haven't verified with like WayBack or anything but I did just see this post by Cynanogen on Twitter

RT @romainguy Images for the #android ADP1 are back online! http://developer.htc.com/adp.html 19 minutes ago from twidroid

It gives me more hope that something is happening over on the HTC website. :)
[Hero CDMA Android Development] gu1dry:
I just use an FireFox extension called, ReloadEvery & set the HTC Dev page to refresh every 30mins ;)
[Hero CDMA Android Development] watzone69:
That's pretty friggin cool. I could have used that back when I was waiting for WM 6.5 systems to drop on a couple of threads (I bet I'm not the only one).

Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed as well. Who knows...

Damn, reading those tweets have made me hungry for bacon!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] markachee:
The 2.1 source came out recently. Think they misunderstood which source was being asked about?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] troyboytn:
I think youre right.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] askwhy:
I doubt the release of the Android 2.1 SDK had anything to do with all the recent requests for the CDMA Hero Kernel Source.

However, I do wonder if the emails regarding the 'Gero' code originated from a source that was confused about the nature of today's SDK release, and perhaps confused about a lot of things. After all, who misses a typo on the Product Name -- on an official communication regarding said product -- and when said product has only 4 letters in said name...?!?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
That's my best guess. (that the source who sent out the "Gero" emails was confused and HTC never had plans to release the Hero kernel source this past weekend). If so, it would be very sad if they don't know the 2.1 Android SDK from the Linux kernel. I've been told from those in the know that releasing the Hero CDMA kernel source is a very low priority over at HTC. I personally don't think its going to happen, and the only ones that might have a legal leg to stand on are those whose code is in the Linux kernel. In short, HTC is likely to keep screwing up, and there ain't sh*t we can do about it (no matter how wrong it is).

Has anyone who received the "Gero" email been able to get a response as to what happened to the code that was supposed to be released over the weekend, or an updated timeline?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cteneyck:
i am gonna call my attorney and have a talk with him and see what he thinks. may end up with a court date. if all goes well we can get an injunction to stop the sale of the CDMA HERO and all other phones that htc produces and doesn't release the source. HTC won't listen... hit them in the wallet!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
only problem is, unless you are a copyright holder you have no right to enforce the GPL. Now if you've written parts of the kernel that are used in the HTC version of the kernel then you really do have a claim against HTC.

Good luck
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cteneyck:
doh. well if anybody knows anybody im willing to do the leg work. this is crazy. i would love to force htc to stop with the procrastination. im still gonna talk with him and see if there may be another avenue.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
And after he finishes laughing at you, what then?

YOU HAVE NO STANDING and I'll bet not one person in ten has actually read the GPL.

You are not a party to the agreement between HTC and Sprint (whatever it is), and you are not a party to the supposed infringement, unless you are a copyright holder in the kernel.

The GPL is a distribution license only. You need to prove willfull infringement of that license, and you *can't*.

Clause 1 specifies that you must convey a copy of the license. We're not party to the agreement between HTC and Sprint, so we don't know what was conveyed to them. *Sprint* might be liable under clause 1, since I can't find any mention of the GPL in what I received from them.

Clause 2, they are demonstrably in compliance with.

Clause 3 of the GPL places no time limit on compliance. Obviously what interests us is 3b, but it does not place any time limit on compliance, only on how long the corresponding offer is valid for. Threats that include words like "IMMEDIATELY" are invalid on the face.

Clause 4 is interesting, because it grants the distribution right, and if you can prove 3b, then they're not in compliance, then they have to stop distribution.

Remember... all HTC has to do in order to be in compliance with the license again is to *stop distribution* of the infringing code. They don't *ever* have to give us anything.

Reasoned dialog is going to produce results with HTC. Threats from people who cannot carry them out, is not going to.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Kcarpenter:
They could also have a team of well trained monkeys write the code in poo on construction paper and Over Night Fedex it to you from Korea....all at your cost. I can only imagine a team of highly sophisticated monkeys is expensive to rent.

Damn I need to stop thinking out loud.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Cloned2:
No offense but you are broadcasting to the world that you are sensitive to people laughing at you as well as discouraged by simple beliefs like "having no standing"

Im tired of these rip off corporations and I wish I returned my phone because all the damn bugs are really beginning to annoy me.

If something doesn't happen soon, i'm going back to the store and making a huge scene over this phone and then smashing it in the store.

I'll buy an iphone and out of pure spite I will buy a few more heros to go make scenes with and smash.

Lets just make the entire world aware of how ruined this companies reputation has become in our eyes. They are asking for it.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
I don't think that would comply with Clause 3. :)
[Hero CDMA Android Development] badutahboy:
You're pretty high and mighty here.. You're right, he has no legal standing, but that doesn't mean a call to his attorney is futile. His attorney can refer him to other legal sources (such as the ones mentioned in this thread), or could be willing to take up the cause (obviously not pro bono or on a contingency) and pressure GNU.org to get involved, right from the top.

The reality is that while we may not have any personal standing with the courts, the forefathers of Linux do, and are still very involved and proactive in protecting THEIR copyright. If HTC is truly noncompliant after a given amount of time, we simply take our fight to GNU.org and their violation reporting page. We've clearly had enough volume for HTC to take note, and can accomplish similar sway with the actual copyright holders with a similarly organized effort.

Finally, numerous articles in regards to linux violations have convincingly stated that simply ceasing distribution likely will NOT satisfy the courts, particularly because HTC is selling devices that simply do not work without the required Code. Even if HTC were to say "Screw it" and get out of the Android game, they would likely still be compelled to release their source code by the courts.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] toastcfh:
ok everyone calm down. its just another day.:rolleyes: im pissed it didnt go through as the letter said too. but.... were not the only people who had to wait for source from htc. the dream guys waited forever too. 9 months i believe. so its all in time i guess. we should get ours soon. it seems they are releasing the source sooner with every device. i mean after repeated emails saying the source isnt there for our device im sure its not a mistake anymore if it ever was.:rolleyes: but yeah everything will be alright. hell we may even hack the source to workk before htc releases it. u never know. telling htc to go **** their selves isnt gonna make them wanna help us any. although i feel like doing it. i know it will do nothing but make me look like an ass and people say... " man that guy takes his phone pretty seriously:eek:". every one ive had ive had to wait for something great to happen too. or i would get tired of waiting and start deving myself. believe me... if everyone started putting the effort into porting the hero kernel to heroc wed be done in no time. :D
[Hero CDMA Android Development] posguy99:
Hate to break it to you, but the FSF has no standing either. They are not a copyright holder in the Linux kernel.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Tipharet:
I think its amazing that HTC is really going to assume this is what was being requested and just release 2.1 with no second thought.... lol I actually laugh as I read it. As if HTC does not know what is wanted. Intentional, and well played HTC. I scoff at you.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Rather than directly taking on the GPL enforcement directly, you might be able to do something like "breach of contract"?

In the Hero's EULA ("Settings->About Phone->Legal info->HTC legal->4."), lies the following paragraph:

It seems to me that HTC is refusing to honor this? This is all speculation on my part, just looking for different tactics.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
Am I just misunderstanding that statement? It seems to say that we can ask for the kernel source after three years after we have the phone?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] FoxRacR17:
That looks pretty good to me. Why dont we email HTC about that and see what they have to say about not having the source code released?
[Hero CDMA Android Development] FoxRacR17:
How I understand it, you have 3 years from the date you purchased your Hero to request the source, after 3 years they do not have to give the source to you.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] tkirton:
Actually, this statement is enforceable as it is part of the HTC End User License Agreeement (and, yes, I know it is also in the GPL...but if it is in a EULA, it is enforceable):

"Until the date that is three years after you acquired the Software, you may obtain a copy of the source code corresponding to the binaries for GPL-licensed file by sending a request to HTC customer service at www.htc.com, and HTC will send you a like to such source code."

So, using this, I wrote to HTC Customer Service:

"I am a developer who is looking to personally customize my CDMA Hero from Sprint. I am requesting a link to the CDMA version (not the GSM version) of the HTC Hero source code per my rights the HTC Legal section, which is located in Settings -> About phone -> Legal information -> HTC legal:

"Until the date that is three years after you acquired the Software, you may obtain a copy of the source code corresponding to the binaries for GPL-licensed file by sending a request to HTC customer service at www.htc.com, and HTC will send you a link to such source code."

Thank you for your prompt attention to this. Please feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Robert T Kirton"

Here's the reply:

"Hello Robert,

We do understand your concern and frustration in this matter and currently the HTC Hero kernel offered on developer.HTC.com is still capable of meeting your developmental needs for applications that can operate on the Sprint. We thank you for your concern in the matter and will relay the information to the proper department for further review. Please visit HTC.com and follow developer.HTC.com for any additional information and updates as they become available.

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again. You can find additional support at our user forum www.htcwiki.com. There is also a customer satisfaction survey for you to take if you are interested.

Philip

HTC Technical Support

www.htc.com

www.twitter.com/htc"

Not sure what that actually meant (I'm thinking that the kernel source posted is CDMA compatible...but definitely not certain), so I wrote the following:

"Thank you for your prompt reply. What I want to make sure is that the source offered on your HTC Developer site is completely compatible with my Hero running the CDMA network. What I'm attempting to avoid here is compiling a new kernel only to find out that the source is for GSM and not CDMA, therefore potentially causing damage to the radio (and, subsequently, bricking the phone).

Is this kernel source for both GSM and CDMA, or is there separate sources for each of the radio types (GSM and/or CDMA)?

Thank you,

Robert T. Kirton"

We'll see what the response is.

Also, there is a possibility that the source could be a CDMA version as well (if you are basing it on date of release). The code was released on 10/22/2009. I know that was after the Sprint Hero was released, as I got my phone on 10/17/2009.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to check it to make sure. If anyone can point me in some direction to validate it, I can certainly do that.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] justinisyoung:
i got that exact same response from that exact same guy.

lol what liars. the one that they posted won't work with our hero cause of the whole hero/heroc thing that makes a big difference.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cteneyck:
Ok so upon reading the very first paragraph of the Eula it says

"The works (Works) herein refer to the software developed or owned by HTC Corporation (HTC) and not seperately released under the terms of an open source software license." it goes on to say that the works is basically the apps that make the phone work. rosie and stuff...

So i think HTC having some sort of say with the EULA is out tha window.

Still reading tho.

by the way i wanna know as somebody that wants to develope and learn how to develope on this phone and will seek any means necisary to get the source. keep mailing the support ppl. i work in a support center and trust me they have no contact with the developers or the ppl that make the choices in that company. so ill sit back and read some more of the legal stuff and call around some tomorrow.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] david_ag:
I want to know if anyone of the people who got the response "We are releasing it over the weekend", have actually emailed back asking "What happened? it was not released over the weekend?"

I also would like to know if anyone has contacted them with a COMPLETE email as in including the files that are missing, and the EULA found in the Hero part #4.

that way they can't just answer that the current source code in the page works with our hero.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] miamicanes:
Idea: when HTC claims the current kernel source has everything we need, point out specific things it DOESN'T document or cover... like the camera -- the one high-profile, specific subsystem that nobody is likely to get working without source (or at least real documentation) from HTC. Unless I've been misreading the CDMA Hero Eclair thread, that's basically the one thing standing between us and a fully-working CDMA Hero w/Eclair right now. Regardless of how resistant they are to releasing the complete source and buildfiles to the CDMA Hero, they might be more willing to throw us a cookie and at least let us have THAT right away. Plus, if the problem is that they don't want to release the source before making it pretty & vetting it with the legal department, it's a lot less work to make a single driver look pretty than it is to clean up an entire firmware build. It wouldn't get them off the hook legally or morally, but it would at least solve one high-priority real-world problem.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
"Eclair" (2.1) is a different beast with a different kernel. HTC only has a responsibility to provide source code for shipping versions (ie, Hero w/ 1.5, "Cupcake"). I should keep this statement on copy/paste. :D
[Hero CDMA Android Development] :
Small point of order if you're going to keep the statement for copy and paste ;) - Hero w/ 1.5, "Donut" should be Hero w/ 1.5, "Cupcake", because Donut is Android 1.6.

Regards,

Dave
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
Doh! Thanks. They're both ancient at this point. Go HTC!
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
Has anybody contact the Software Freedom Law Center (http://www.softwarefreedom.org)? I believe they have the authority to enforce the GPL.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] miamicanes:
OK, to clarify my point about the camera driver.

As I understand it, the current Eclair-on-CDMA-Hero roadblock is the fact that the 1.5 camera driver is compiled into the delivered kernel, and (somewhat akin to an old Scanner driver with a new version of Windows) can't be extracted and thunked to work with Eclair firmware built from source obtained directly from Google's own repository, independently of HTC and Sprint themselves.

If we had the source to at least THAT part of the CDMA Hero's kernel, it could be patched up a bit and compiled into the independently-built kernel for the non-HTC CDMA Hero Eclair firmware. Or possibly rebuilt as a loadable kernel module that can be used with independently-built distros of Donut, Eclair, and beyond for CDMA Heroes.

Speaking as a developer (not affiliated with the wireless industry in any way), I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that HTC isn't adamantly opposed to releasing the source, but it's at the absolute bottom of their priority list -- probably assigned to an overworked developer who was told "work on this when you have nothing better to do". Of course, he's already probably working 60-80 hour weeks, so he's not going to work on it unless his boss makes it a higher priority (unlikely), or he decides to burn his weekend working on it. My point is that the camera driver is something specific and finite compared to something way more ambitious like "everything needed to build the CDMA Hero's shipping firmware".

If that same developer were asked to do something that doesn't seem so hopelessly huge and open-ended -- something he might even be able to knock off in an hour or two -- he'd be WAY more likely to just go ahead an do it, then tell his boss "it's going to be a long time until the whole thing is ready, but here's something they need really, really badly... if we give this to them right away, most of the people bothering you nonstop will go away and be too busy playing with Eclair to worry about more abstract philosophical matters like GPL enforcement".
[Hero CDMA Android Development] cmccracken:
@miamicanes: Your point is a good one and makes sense, except that it would actually take more time to pick the camera code out of the kernel than it would take to just drop the tarball for the whole kernel.

After 3 months of refusing to release the source, HTC has burned far more man-hours answering support requests about this than it would have taken to just post the source.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Cloned2:
I wish I never bought a phone from this company.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] Time_Lord:
hey... maybe hijack this thread on Slashdot and get HTC's lack of response back out in the forfront again... http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/01/12/001207/An-Android-Developers-Top-10-Gripes?art_pos=6
[Hero CDMA Android Development] chuckhriczko:
The phones from HTC are great. They are reliable and sturdy and I would choose HTC over Samsung or Motorola any day. That said, I too am upset with how they are handling the kernel situation. Honestly, it's been said here before and I would have to agree that I think the Hero is at the bottom of their list. They are now fielding tons of issues from the Nexus One and focusing on further development on new phones. I primarily blame Sprint however. I blame them for choosing the Hero instead of waiting just a touch longer for a Snapdragon powered phone or getting the Motorola Sholes or something like that. I want the kernel as much as you guys but I also can't wait for two years to come so I can upgrade to whatever "superphone" is out at that point.

Oh and also, if you had a Motorola or Samsung then you wouldnt have this great community. Just remember guys, the Dream took almost year before it had seriously good development. Released in October of 08 it really only started seeing exciting things in May when Haykuro released his first Cupcake rom (Sapphire) and then when he released his Hero rom we were all amazed. After he left Cyanogen took over and the rest is history. We may have to wait a while but it will all be worth it. And like I said, if nothing else, we wait two years and get a WiMax powered "superphone".
[Hero CDMA Android Development] irishman06:
I suspect HTC is in compliance with this, based on what I can gather on this lengthy thread. Their position based on some posts after the one I quoted is that the kernel source is identical between GSM and CDMA; the only difference is in the hero* versus heroc* files. Which, as they're created by HTC, probably do not fall under the GPL.

If this is the case, we're hosed.
[Hero CDMA Android Development] WhiteWidows:
Yea but I think they modified the kernel therefore they need to release it with the modifications. Not sure if I'm right on this maybe someone can clarify.