yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] Beefheart:
It's not the tariff that's the problem with the iPhone, the length and monthly cost is no different than any other high end mobile phone. The problem is the initial fee they want for it. A £35 a month 18 month contract for a 3GS would have cost me £190 for a bottom of the range 16gb and a 32gb would have cost £270. Compare that to the HD2 costing me £1.72 on the same £35, 18 month contract and you get some idea why upgrading my trusty old iPhone 2G to the 3GS was never going to happen.
[HD2 General] TheTroubleMaker:
****ty review.

Apple fanboy!
[HD2 General] sunking101:
I disagree. Any decent tariff (ie with a text bolt-on) will cost £40-45 which is at least a tenner more than can be had on any other top handset. I'm going on like-for-like initial fees. If you factor-in the figures you're talking to the monthly fee then it will go up substantially.
[HD2 General] Beefheart:
What exactly are you disagreeing with? Once you have paid the initial cost for the iPhone the monthly cost of the contract and what you get for it are identical to the HD2, or it certainly is in O2's case who I'm with. A 600 minute, unlimited data, 1000 text tariff in both cases is £35 a month based upon an 18 month length. It's just a case of what you're willing to pay for the device that differs.
[HD2 General] sunking101:
Only 500 texts for the iPhone on O2.
[HD2 General] sunking101:
An extra 500 texts costs £7.50 a month....so for £42 a month I would still be worse off because with my HD2 I negotiated unlimited texts, unlimited data and 600 mins. OK so the iPhone has 1000 or 1200 mins but I need the texts! It's just not that amazing a phone that I'm prepared to pay more for it AND get a worse tariff.
[HD2 General] Beefheart:
If you don't haggle for more, yes but I was on 1000 myself for no extra charge. But regardless, how many people send more than 500 texts in a month anyway? I don't know anyone who would, I think my record is about 300.

My point still stands, the difference between an iPhone tariff and other top end mobile phones once the initial cost of the device is taken out of the equation is virtually nothing and certainly not a tenner more like you said.
[HD2 General] sunking101:
No haggling on the new iPhone contracts, at all. They don't budge. Oh and I sent 1400+ texts last month. That wasn't individual texts, I just send long ones - some of my individual texts are 6 or 7 texts in length. :-)
[HD2 General] erosennin:
Are you in to poetry?
[HD2 General] Beefheart:
They certainly did. Still, it could be based upon what you spend, I was a select customer at the time.

As for sending the equivalent of 1400 texts, I find it amazing you have enough time in the day to compose them.
[HD2 General] OneGoodKnock:
A friend of mine regularly sends at least 600-650 texts per month it only works out at 20 per day. You miss the point however - the fact is that the iPhone tariffs are quite clearly not nearly as competitive, why settle for 500 texts when other contact deals give you unlimited texts??
[HD2 General] erosennin:
Guys you're way out of topic :p
[HD2 General] sunking101:
I used to be a very fast texter...before I got the HD2 lol. My text lengths have dramatically decreased because I find typing so tedious with all the error correcting etc. I love the internet capabilities and the screen though, can't wait for fixes from HTC to sort the usability problems elsewhere. I'm awaiting new stock from O2 as I think the volume level on my handset is faulty but once the keyboard is hopefully addressed and the SMS problem, it should be the phone it promised to be.
[HD2 General] Beefheart:
I don't miss the point at all. You say why settle for 500 texts when other tariffs have unlimited, I would say what's the point of being swayed by unlimited texts if you send less than 500 every month. Which I do. And my question about texts wasn't meant to be taken literally, it was rhetorical and more an indication that people who send 500+ texts a month are in a minority, I don't know anyone who would approach that amount, and that includes my daughter.

My point, which seems to have been missed, is that the main disadvantage of the iPhone is NOT the difference in tariffs, rather the comparative difference in the cost of the device to begin with.
[HD2 General] OneGoodKnock:
There seems to be a lot of point missing in this thread - it's a good job we don't all play darts for a living isn't it? :p
[HD2 General] madindehead:
You do seem a bit biased I have to say. How is the iPhone OS more open to tweaking than WinMo 6.5?

Just because there are very few apps on the actual Marketplace for WinMo, doesn't mean there are LESS applications. There are a lot of amazing applications for WinMo that aren't on the Marketplace.

And there are a lot more than 60 apps. Looking at it right now, there is a total of 179 apps.
[HD2 General] OneGoodKnock:
Got to say I thought this as well - going back many years ago to my iPaq i was sure there were loads and loads of apps to install.
[HD2 General] sunking101:
Well if texts aren't your bag and you're happy with the standard 'as it comes' tariff, then the iPhone becomes more attractive. The up-front price was no more for me than quoted on the HD2 but it was the tariff which put me off. I paid £100 for my HD2 by the way, I got ripped off. It's like buying car insurance, there is too much disparity. Contracts should be the same, it's awful to know someone paid less than you did for the same item.
[HD2 General] OneGoodKnock:
What tariff did you end up with?
[HD2 General] sunking101:
£30 a month

Unlimited texts

Unlimited web

600 mins X-network

......and £100 initial handset price (that's the crap bit!)
[HD2 General] OneGoodKnock:
I went for a 18month contract with T-mo via mobile phones direct. 700 mins, unlimited texts, unlimited mobile web. £34.26 pcm and free HD2. Where did you get yours from
[HD2 General] Beefheart:
Is that 18 or 24 months? You paid more for the phone but you have the same tariff as me for £5 less a month. If, like me, it's over 18 months you are only £10 down on the deal so it isn't too bad.
[HD2 General] sunking101:
Sadly I must honestly report that it's on a 24-monther too. I'm happy with my monthly payment and what I get for that but the initial one-off handset fee and the extra 6 months on my contract mean I've been badly ripped by O2. Been with them 7 years too.
[HD2 General] omneity:
So you now have a LiePhone?

IMHO It's a cracking deal and I'm delighted that another forum/platform/peer acceptance group have taken on the challenge of your exacting standards.

Accepting crap because it's the latest designer crap is always the best way forwards...

Happy Days for all. :)
[HD2 General] sunking101:
Nooo, that's my HD2 contract.
[HD2 General] OneGoodKnock:
OOOh I bet that hurts - 24 months as well!!
[HD2 General] the-uki:
Well, not everyone is a WM geek and knows where to go to find the different apps. If you want to make business on WM65 and have Mr. anyone access your apps, then you need to put it in the app store. It's a lot more handy to have everything in one store. Furthermore some of the old apps don't work anymore despite trying out and configuring different versions of .net frameworks (I have a separate thread on that)
[HD2 General] the-uki:
If I look at my home PC, I don't see any real difference between XP, Vista or Windows 7 - so what's the big deal around Windows 7 for the PDA?
[HD2 General] the-uki:
Sorry, but I am not biased. In fact, when I broke my Iphone 3G I was chosing between the HD2 and the 3GS and I chose the HD2 and am happily joining back on the XDA community.

Only afterwards did I realize the differences I listed in terms of usability and usefulness.

Look at the iPhone and try it out for a week, and you will understand. What I list are hard facts. This morning still only 60 apps in the windows app store compared to tens of thousands for the iphone for instance. What good is a computer if you don't have software tu run on it? Of course I have my collection of outdated cabs - but look at the kind of apps you can get for the iPhone - lightyears away from what you get on WM65.
[HD2 General] the-uki:
Disagree - otherwise I would not have bought the HD2 in the first place when I broke my 3G.
[HD2 General] the-uki:
Sometimes you have to highlight the reality in order to make the right people wake up and make the required changes to the HD2, so that in the end you get what you want: an HD2 improved so that it beats the iphone.

Your comment appears to be more emotional than factual, and suggests you never used an iPhone. If I'm mistaken, please list more HD2 facts to balance my review.
[HD2 General] CanEpia:
Even though it was heartbreaking to read the OP's post as I'm just days away from hitting Hong Kong to try and pick up a new HD2... in my heart I can't say anything he posted is wrong. Fanboy or not, he's right on many of the points (except the apps stuff).

When you really think about it, how many of you would purchase a WM phone over an iPhone for your loved ones? I've been through tons of phones and now I've recommended (and given as gifts) iPhones to my wife, and many relatives. They are ALL in LOVE with them and I never need to field any support calls... Even the older generation people I was worried about just seem to get the phone. Only problems I ever had just required a quick visit to the apple store and I had a new unit in my hands within 15 mins.

That being said, I've owned a iPhone 2G, (multiple) 3G, and 3GS and I'm never going back. Sure it makes a GREAT phone and little entertainment device, but it just doesn't feel "useful" to me in helping me deal with actual work.

I just hope the HD2 is close enough to the iphone experience while allowing me to better manage my communications, download attachments, and access my home and work networks so I don't always have to carry my laptop with me. If it does, I will be ecstatic! But I'll still recommend the iPhone to the people around me.
[HD2 General] orb3000:
I know this is Leo section but just wanted to share that in 2009

Iphoney got 1st place vs Rhodium in USA only.

In Europe Rhodium was 1st

Info here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=594201&highlight=winner

I´m sure Leo will beat apple´s device easily in 2010!
[HD2 General] saldawop:
OP, you are a crapple fanboy.

Post the opposite view on Macrumors and you will be a Micro$hit fanboy .

I guess its true that some never actually grow up past schoolboy level (assuming of course, that you ARENT schoolboys :D)
[HD2 General] Xaddict:
Flame on!!!

I was having lunch with two friends yesterday who are newly proud iphone owners. I broke out my HD and let them play with it while I tried the IP keyboard to compare. (I find the HD2 keyboard frustrating since I have big fingers).

They reported that they really liked it, especially the sense ui and big screen & fast response. One was a girl with slender fingers and she trialled the keyboard and said she like it.

I find the IP KB harder to use than the HD2.

So much for that little chestnut.

Anyway, I have discovered cliquick which has made life on the Leo so much easier.

Each to their own but I would never be happy with an iphone.
[HD2 General] the-uki:
Oh - I forgot to mention that for work I have a blackberry. Neither the iPHone nor the HD2 can beat the blackberry when you have to write approximately 100 emails per day and night. You need a keyboard like that on the blackberry to survive if you have more than 10 emails to do per day.
[HD2 General] the-uki:
Agreed on video better on bigger screen. As for resolution - still waiting for the software on the market to take advantage of it. So far most of everything is low PDA res adapted to run on the HD2.

By "easier to hold" I mean the following: the HD2 is very flat and very wide. Whereas this is good in itself, it's harder to get a good firm grip in the hand compared to the more narrow iPhone or any other cell phone for that manner. I nearly dropped the HD2 several times because of that.

Agreed no flash on the iphone, certainly coming soon. Zooming on the pages is a lot more intuitive and makes interent actually usable on the iPhone. The iphone also synced all my Web browser favorits from the PC to the iPhone, which I still didn't get Active Sync to do on my HD2.

I don't use autocorrection because I typically type in several languages. When I critique the HD2 keyboard its because you get sooo mannny wrong keystrokes compared to the iPhone, frankly its unusable.

Now remember most of my remarks as I mentioned are directed against WM65 and not the HD2. Maybe WM7 will be a much bigger difference on the PDA than it was on the PC compared to Vista. I promise to remake my review once the WM7 official rom is released.
[HD2 General] razorblader:
I too own a HD2 and an Iphone 3GS and would agree with most points the OP made.

That being said, both phones have their clear strongpoints and I see no reason to choose either one over the other, I'll keep both and am happy as can be.
[HD2 General] jakem:
There's plenty of software that takes advantage of the high-res screen on the HD2 and Opera is the best example. I can read this entire thread without having to zoom in because of the high-res screen. I can also see more of a webpage (zoomed in or not) than you can on an iPhone because of the HD2's high-res screen. To suggest that the resolution is somehow wasted and to blame that on WinMo is ridiculous.

I don't know what you mean when you say that zooming is more intuitive on the iPhone. Do you have trouble on the HD2 because it's pretty simple and works just as you'd expect. Thankfully, zooming isn't necessary to make the internet useable on the HD2.

Your critique of the keyboard seems a little unfair if you don't use all the features it offers. However, I'm sure you could find a keyboard that suits you better as there are plenty to choose from, even multilingual ones. I only have to type in one language (fortunately or unfortunately depending on your perspective) and it works pretty perfectly for me.
[HD2 General] kholk:
HD2 is really usable, its screen is really big, and it's the device that has the biggest screen. It's an only-screen device (not properly, but 1-2cm of space taken by the hardware buttons aren't a waste of space) and this makes it really usable.

- I think that the HD2 and iPhone are the same while holding in the hand.

- HD2 can be operated one-handed while writing messages for example and... well, I don't have a BIG hand, but I can operate it with only one hand.

- HD2's case has got a (I don't know what it's called) plastic housing and betal battery cover, so.. it's nearly impossible to drop it on the floor, at least for me, but depends on people.

- Well, SMS threads are somewhat better on iPhone, but it's only because we have WM6.5. When WM7 will be out and on HD2 that "issues" will be fixed. Browsing (on Opera) is simply better.

- I've never repeated swipe and pinch and I think that the HD2's screen is even too much responsive! Okay, the screen is too much on the border and WM6.5 lacks the native support of multitouch, but this will be solved with WM7. IMHO, WM6.5 doesn't lag.

- As for me, the WM copy & paste is simply perfectly usable.

- I get one error per SMS. It can run fast even with click sound turned on (on HD2). Just get practice!

- In car handling while driving, on HD2 you've got NaviPanel. It's so simple to answer to a call! Simpler than the iPhone!

Conclusion: On my opinion, HTC wins, with or without WM7.

App store

iPhone is too much better.

But take in mind that the Microsoft Marketplace is online since WM6.5 is out.

iPhone is out from years. WM6.5 from months.

Proprietary vs. open platform?

Well, iPhone OS is totally proprietary.

Windows Mobile is proprietary for like 10% of the OS, but...

...Who cares?!?

We can't easily port different OSes because of the lack of drivers source code!

Comms

HD2 is simply perfect.

GPS functionality

I don't use the GPS, but from what I've tested, the HD2 with Windows Mobile is more responsive and has got intuitive GPS apps (and some of these are available on iPhone).

Camera

Far better than the iPhone. Even the videos are recorded better.

Other technical and other features

Battery not easily exchangeable in iPhone. If you've got two batteries with the HTC HD2 you can do a fast swap of them when you need. With iPhone you can't.

Memory: HD2 comes with a 2GB MicroSD card. iPhone comes with 32GB internal memory. I don't know about the speed but.. in this case the iPhone is far better. (Who needs more than 32GB on a PDA?!?)

Periferilia:

iPhone got cases etc. but those things are out only in 1 month for other devices. And... well, all the WM devices will charge with a 5V adapter (USB voltage), and even the iPhone, so... it's equal..

My conclusion:

The HTC HD2 is nearly better than the iPhone. It has the possibility to fast swap MicroSD memories and batteries and.. I don't think there's anything more to say! Otherwise I'll repeat all the things that I've written in the past lines.. :P
[HD2 General] rd2000:
Worst thread ever.

why?

Simple. You CAN'T compare apple(s) with oranges, and that is what you are trying to do with your "review".

To put it simple :

Iphone is for people who will sacrifice the ability to customize, to get a simple and easy to use phone.

Apple dictates what you can do with your phone. In return you get a great layout, and very few bugs.

HTC Windows phones gives you unlimited choice.

Manila or WM interface ? YOU choose.

More than one way to do things ? You bet.

You want better fonts ? Custom icons ? A completely different interface ? Your choice. In return there are bugs that needs to be sorted out, and a longer learning curve.

The fact i can spend hours upon hours customizing my phone, so i looks nothing like my friends, who got the same device, should give you a hint as to what I prefer...
[HD2 General] Step666:
I shan't bother pointing out the numerous flaws/inconsistencies/clear bias in the original post but there was something someone said in the replies that stuck out IMO:

That would be a complete non-point.

For years there used to be talk of potential 'iPod-killers' and the search for such a device but nothing ever supposedly measured up.

That would be despite the fact that iPods have pretty much always been technically inferior to a large number of competing devices.

'The media' has always had a massive bias towards Apple and I for one don't see that changing any time soon.

Thankfully though, I'm capable of forming my own opinions so it really doesn't matter what some twunt writing for Gizmodo or the like thinks (and having read some of the drivel written on that particular site, I use the term 'think' loosely).
[HD2 General] madindehead:
I have to agree where. While the HD2 is only my second Windows Mobile device, I love it. The phone itself is excellent, and that fact that I can do whatever I want with my phone software is excellent.

All iPhones will always look the same to the passing eye. Sure apps may be different etc, but that's it.

My HD2 will be totally different because of my tabs layout, the way I have my start menu icons etc.

That's what a phone should be about. Customisation. Making it yours. Just like HTC says "Make it mine". Not everyones.
[HD2 General] SeanX:
This is a pretty subjective thread, so obviously it needs my biased oppinions as well :).

Useability

I have just moved from an iPhone 3g to a HD2 via 2 weeks spent on my old Jasjam. The most important lesson I have learned from this is that standard win mobile 6.1 sucks. Sense on the other hand is surprisingly good. I was expecting to give up some usability in return for more power but this hasn't been the case.

I am over 40 which may be why I appreciate the HD2 screen. It's fantastic and the iPhone isn't even close. Responsiveness is much the same on either one.

Copy paste on the iPhone is kind of pointless without multitasking. You have to copy the text, close the applicaiton you are in, open the application you want to paste into, paste, do whatever you need to do with the text, close the application and reopen your original app.

Neither phone has a really great implimentation because fingers friendlyness means giving up the precision of a stylus in return for ease of use.

I don't know which is better to use while driving as it is illegal down here.

Apps

I assume that the WM app store is fairly empty but I have never used it so I wouldn't know. I have managed to replace all the iPhone apps I regularly used without difficulty. In many cases I haven't needed to replace them as the functionality is built in.

The problem isn't the number of apps, it's finding them. App discovery and install is much easier on the iPhone

Proprietry v Open

I have been down the jailbreaking path several times to get basic functionality (multitasking, usb drive etc) but it's not something I particularly recommend. Eventually I end up reverting to standard go get a bit of stability.

Conclusion

If you focus on what the iPhone does better, you can create a reasonable list. If you focus on what the HD2 does better, you can also create a decent size list. They are not a drop in replacement for each other.

Things the HD2 does better

Video - I can just drag over my video files onto the phone and they play. I don't need to import them into iTunes for the sole purpose on converting and playing.

Audio books - Same as for video, drag and play. And I can play them back at 120% or 150% rather than at 200%

Development - Developing for the iPhone is a major pain in the arse if you aren't a Mac user.

Functionality - wifi router, usb drive etc

Finally

The HD2 is the first win mobile phone I would give to my wife :)
[HD2 General] sunking101:
Give the HD2 to a woman??? :eek:

I'm sure that most would find the o/s baffling, let alone impossible to type and navigate with long nails. Plus the device looks sooo masuline! :D
[HD2 General] SeanX:
I'm sure she can cope.
[HD2 General] audscott:
I've enjoyed this thread immensity: Currently using a HD, my HD2 on backorder. The iPhone cannot meet my demands for 4 to 6 applications running simultaneously. I write or read, look up word definitions, synonyms or homonyms and copy paste. Apple can't complete on that single level, because it is monotone. I need variety and flexibility, thank you very much! :D
[HD2 General] the-uki:
The iPhone can if you jailbreak it
[HD2 General] afterburn:
I am a Mac user and I'd rather give up my ability to sync without spending extra money on 3rd party software and buy the HD2 than buy an iPhone, which offers a completely integrated user experience with my Mac.

And I did.

That should tell you something.
[HD2 General] idesmond:
I send an average of 1200 sms per month, every month :)
[HD2 General] veej:
I've given up my 3GS for the HD2 last week and so far I have no regrets, except for the fact that there are a lot less games available. I have to agree and disagree on some of the things you mentioned. I am a minority when it comes to OS and UI. One thing that really hate about the iPhone is the icon based UI. Why do I have to jailbreak it to have a "Today" screen? I really do not have a problem with WM and Sense UI is just the icing on the cake. As a business tools the iphone is just as not as convenient. I also do not have problems with the keyboard. I have as many mistakes on the iphone as the HD2. However, I have to say that the screen respond is still the best in the iphone. The other big problem for me is that iphone cannot last 1 day for me. Come 5pm it is already down to 20%.

No doubt the HD2 is the best WM out there now. There are, as with everything else in the world, things that can and should be improved. However, I am more than happy with it at the moment and so far did not have one single moment that I regretted giving up the iPhone, except when I am sitting in the loo with nothing else better to do!:D
[HD2 General] Archer:
Browsing porn looks great on a 4.3" 800x480 screen ;) lol