yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] de5perate:
I own both an iPhone and an HD2 and when I bought the HD2 I de5perately wanted it to be so much better than my previous WM experiences and sadly it isn't even close to the iPhone. For me I love the styling of the HD2 - the fact the screen takes up almost the whole front of the phone looks so much more modern than the big black iphone frame around the screen (I think the iPohne looks dated compared to the HD2). My only issue with the HD2 styling is the sticking out camera - I think the camera should have been flush with the case even if it meant some reduction in camera quality/resolution.

To respond to some of your questions -

multitasking - I don't find it a huge hassle not being able to multitask - let's remember this is a phone and not a laptop. What I find more annoying is when you have inadvertantly left an app running on WM and return an hour later to find it's consumed all your battery power.

The apps being controlled by one company - I agree not an ideal scenario but the advantage to this is that you don't get apps changing important system files, leaving your phone flakey and unreliable until you perform a hard reset.

Home screen - my HD2 home screen shows the clock, date, unreliable weather (really, really unreliable weather, often in some random part of the world) and some apps. My iphone shows the same without the date and unreliable weather prediction - if I am unable to see out of the window then I can click on the weather app on my homescreen.

Syncing with PC - now you are being critical of the iphone here but in my opinion this is one of the areas where the iphone trounces WM - You simply connect your iPhone to iTunes (once you have set up a partnership) and it backs up all your settings - if you ever have to restore your iPhone then it comes back exactly like it was before (exactly) - no editing registry settings, no finding Cab files and registration codes, remembering all your e-mail pop settings etc etc etc And the iphone never needs to be restored unlike WM.

You mention not being able to use Flash - Now I don't agree with lots of Apples business practices so am sceptical about a lot of what they say but Apple have explained that they have excluded flash support because the coding behind flash is sloppy and buggy - now if this is true and would jeopardise the stability of the iphone I understand their reluctance to support it.

As I stated in my opening lines I would have liked nothing more than for the HD2 to have beaten the iPhone but unfortunately it is not in the same league. Web browsing on the iPhone is a joy (second only to a full blown PC), by comparison browsing on the HD2 is a mildly painful experience. Text messaging the same. Even things like typing sentences - why is the first letter not automatically capitalised on the HD2 - simple stuff - attention to detail. The HD2 is a beautiful piece of hardware but sadly - as much as I would love to part with my iPhone - it is definitely the poor relation.
[HD2 General] mallman:
edit your RAM now :) should read 576
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
1) Do I want to only be able to use one third party app at a time?

You can mutitask perfectly on an iphone. Proswitcher etc.

2) Do I want all my purchased apps to be only usable on phones manufactured by one company?

As opposed to what? Moronic argument.

3) Do I want those apps to be controlled by that one company such that they determine what apps I can purchase, and can even remove the app from my phone whenever they want?

Yes keep with the conspiracy theories its about all you are going to get. You can keep the programs as .ipa files on your computer.

4) Do I want a home screen that consists entirely of app icons and no usable info, and which cannot be changed for something better?

There are homescreen applications like intelliscreen for the iphone. Yawn.

5) Do I want to be restricted in what data I can synch with my PC?

What data is this?

6) Do I want to be unable to plug my phone into any kind of computer or media device and transfer files to and from them?

You can use the iphone as a USB device or you can access and transer files on linux, mac osx or win using iphone explorer etc.

7) Do I want to be permanently tied into iTunes and be at the mercy of its DRM system?

You don't have to be I upload download and integrate my music and videos etc into the native iphone players using sharepod software. Granted most users are not going to know about this but neither will they know about this site.

8) Do I want hardware that is perpetually out of date, spec-wise?

There are phones with better hardware yes but the iphone is better than 95% of handsets even in this regard.

9) Do I want an operating system that cannot be modified to my tastes?

How about one that actually works in the first place.

10) Do I want this one company to make decisions for me, like whether I can use Flash or not, or whether I should multitask?

The absence of flash on the iphone is a major negative point to the device. Apple are protecting their appstore.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
There you have it ;)
[HD2 General] samsamuel:
You can mutitask perfectly on an iphone. Proswitcher etc.

Is that REALLY multitasking, 'resting' an application behind another one? what about them all running at the same time?

2) Do I want all my purchased apps to be only usable on phones manufactured by one company?

As opposed to what? Moronic argument.

In the sense of it runs on HTC winmo phones, and samsung winmo ophones, and..... not just one manufacturer, moronic response.

3)

Yes keep with the conspiracy theories its about all you are going to get. You can keep the programs as .ipa files on your computer.

So you have to hide your apps from the mother ship in order to keep them.

4)

There are homescreen applications like intelliscreen for the iphone. Yawn.

But no NATIVE support for apps on the home screen, , yawn

6)

You can use the iphone as a USB device or you can access and transer files on linux, mac osx or win using iphone explorer etc.

So i need to use a specially written file explorer and not ANY file explorer? How old fashioned!

7)

You don't have to be I upload download and integrate my music and videos etc into itunes using sharepod software. Granted most users are not going to know about this but neither will they know about this site.

So, trickery to bypass the walls and locks imposed by big brother jobs, thats handy.

9) Do I want an operating system that cannot be modified to my tastes?

How about one that actually works in the first place.

No OS 'works' perfectly. The key point to a good OS is one that you can fix to your tastes easily.

10)

Apple are protecting their appstore.

and their grip on people that are not even aware they are being screwed.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
The response above typifies my estimate of hardcore xda-users. Obsessed over specs over function and throughly hypocritical (tweaks etc).
[HD2 General] freyberry:
There's some basic things every phone should be able to do out of the box. If you need to hack your phone in order to make it do basic stuff, then you can't say that it 'just works'. That's nonsense.

When you compare the efforts needed to make the iPhone do what every phone should be able to do, with the effort needed to solve some little problems on a phone like the HD2 (if there even are any), then it becomes clear that, if anything 'just works', that's indeed the Windows Mobile phones, not the iPhone.

Of course, if you don't need any of the basic features that the iPhone lacks, then it really 'just works' for you.

But then your arguments mentioning Proswitcher, Intelliscreen etc, are nonsense.

So, it all comes down to this:

If you don't miss any of the features the iPhone lacks and don't mind outdated hardware, get an iPhone. It will 'just work' and you will be happy.

But if you are not satisfied with what the iPhone provides out of the box, then don't bother jailbreaking it etc., just get a Windows Phone (or Android), because that will then work a lot better for you and need less effort to make it work the way you want.

To quote the very good summary of Jim Coleman:

(because he's entirely right)

Sorry, imperiallight, your arguments are nonsense. You can't mention the Jailbreak and 'just works' together, that's a contradiction in terms.
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Let's remember that multitasking is the single feature iPhone users want the most. Look at http://pleasefixtheiphone.com/ , where you'll see for yourself. Not only that, but if you just want a phone, why haven't you purchased a £10 cheapo job from a highstreet store? That's just a phone. Not a laptop.

So you would rather not be able to leave any apps running at all? Just because you might do so by mistake? Gordon Bennett!

I don't see how one company running the show eliminates all bugs. Sorry.

Mine shows me whatever I want it to, because I can replace it with a 3rd party one. Maybe yours is busted?

The weather on my HD2 has been pretty accurate, and I like the way it shows me the weather where I am at any time. I you want to resort to looking out the windows instead of using technology, then why not write letters to people instead of emailing them as well?

Actually you missed the point. You cannot synch all your data with a PC using an iPhone. You can with an HD2. Regarding backups though, I'd point you in the direction of any number of third party apps that will do just that. And please be serious....iTunes is a crock of shyte, isn't it.

So you're happy for Steve Jobs to take away from you the choice of whether or not your phone is capable of FLASH? If it's buggy, don't use it, but for God's sake don't give up the RIGHT to use it. Jobs is so arrogant, I wouldn't trust him to decide for me anything at all.

How so? I've not experienced any of this pain. With text reflow and high resolution, most of the time I don't even have to pinch-to-zoom, and if I do, at least I can still read the paragraphs without having to jiggle from side to side with every line. Now THAT is pain.

Er......is does get capitalized, actually.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
What it all comes down IMO, is that the HD2 is a great MID (mobile internet device) but the iphone with its apps that I check on daily is more like a fully fledged OS, hand optimised.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
A fully fledged OS that can't even multitask or exchange files via USB? A fully fledged OS that doesn't even provide access to the file system!? A fully fledged phone OS that isn't even able to reject calls?!?

OMG, you just outed yourself as a brainwashed fanboy :D:D:D
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
You can do all those things:rolleyes:
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Wait, you're saying the iPhone has a fully fledged OS because....er......it has apps....that you check on......daily?

If there's any logic in there, it's really well hidden.
[HD2 General] enyaj:
Huh? Seriously, an iphone cannot reject a call???? Gotta check that one with my sisters 3gs. Can a phone actually not reject a call???
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Don't bother, Jim, it's a stupid fanboy ;)

You can identify those brainwashed fanboys when they mention Jailbreak and 'just works' together - anyone who actually uses his brain understands that this is a contradiction in terms.
[HD2 General] enyaj:
this is really fun. everytime imperiallight posts it makes me appreciate my HD2 more. sweet!!!
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Seriously. With a proper phone like the HD2, you reject the call by, for instance, flipping the phone over on your desk, or by pressing the END CALL button or sliding the on-screen button to REJECT.

On the iPhone you have to just let it ring and ring and ring until the caller gets bored and hangs up. Great in meetings. NOT.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Also, with the iPhone, when you're in an application and what to make a call, you have to completely shut down the application, go to the home screen, then hunt for the phone or adress book icon.

With the HD2, you just press the call send button anytime, type the first two letters of the name you want to call, and there you go. When you end the call, it takes you back where you left off. Now, that's convenience.

As a phone, the iPhone fails miserably. Every dumbphone is better at the most basic feature of a phone: making calls.
[HD2 General] enyaj:
WTF???!!!! What happened??? Did apple forget that you have to be able to do that?
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
How do you find using a bluetooth keyboard with mouse on your device? How do you find voice transcription on your device? Ever tried augmented reality thats in the news these days? How about annotating pdfs using a stylus? Sucks doesn't it.

(Leo is my main device for now but there is a lot of misinformation on this thread as to the iphones capabilities)
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
I mean it semi replaces a pocket computer (osx, win7, linux) better than anything else at the moment due to the variety and functionality of its apps. Easier when you have a theme and folder structure like I have on mine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2-MGPl5TBc&feature=related

Over 140, 000 apps cant be wrong.
[HD2 General] ~Johnny:
A) The "Ignore" button only doesn't show up when the phone is locked. The rest of the time it does.

B) When it's locked, pressing the power button twice will reject the call. Logic there being is that if it's locked it's probably away in your pocket and when you take it out you may end up touching the screen and accidentally ignoring the call. So they take it off the screen when it's locked and make you press the power button twice. It's a logical approach.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Wait... one Apple fanboy defending the iPhone by saying

and the other one saying

And additionally, the second one says you need to hack your iPhone for doing basic stuff (Proswitcher...) and at the same time, he says it 'just works'... what?!

This is getting interesting :D:D:D

I love how those fanboys contradict themselves :D

And no, the call handling on the iPhone is not at all logical - it sucks, plain and simple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsQHRtUtW0c
[HD2 General] Rollmops:
Comparing specs and capabilities of smartphones out of the box doesn't make much sense nowadays imho.

What brought massive success for the iPhone is the OS built from the ground up with touch screen only functionnality in mind and ease of use(and there was a bunch of very innovative features when it came out, among them, multitouch ). Now, there's nothing the iPhone can do a HD2 couldn't do better.....

BAR the lack of well designed applications to tap into the capabilities of HTC's flagship WM device.

3rd party applications is the main reason why one would chose a smartphone over a dumb one, and in this regard, iPhone apps outnumber WM ones 1000:1 even when you remove all the fart crap from the equation.

I like verything about my HD2, but the lack of quality software and innovative apps is seriously pissing me.
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Right. On my HD2 I have the open source app "KeePass", which is a password storage and encryption app. I also have KeePass for Windows running on my Desktop PC. The password file is stored on my HD2 and gets synched to the PC. So I can access all my passwords on both my phone and my PC, using the same software, looking at the same file.

That, to me, is the way a proper pocket computer works. Does the iPhone do that?
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
double post
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Yes you can get myKeepass on the iphone appstore. Come try again.

I bet the same app costs 5 times as much on Windows Marketplace.
[HD2 General] Rollmops:
I wouldn't say ONE example of the way ONE particular application works defines what is the proper way a pocket computer should work nor the way everything works on any given platform.

Furthermore, I'm convinced that what you describe is not the way things tend to go, we are more and more connected and our data will be stored on the cloud, with NO NEED to transfer the same data file to access it from different computers/applications.
[HD2 General] de5perate:
Do real people seriously still use the phrase Gordon Bennett? Apparantly so.

What I want is to be confident that next time I return to my phone that the battery will have some charge. I admit the lack of multitasking is a bit limiting - if you run Tomtom on the iPhone then if you manage to get past the fact the GPS is shockingly bad then pray that you don't receive a call anytime you may need to take a turn. In the main it is no big deal - the phone is fast enough that if you need to make a call while doing something else then it only takes a few seconds to return to what you were doing.

What I see is the iPhone is incredibly stable - WM as soon as you start installing 3rd party apps gets unstable very easily.

Yes probably!!

I think you must be in the minority or you don't move around much (do a search on this forum). I think my point was that it is a gimmick - a very pretty gimmick but it's a gimmick - we don't a device to tell us what the current weather is like in the place where we are. Your e-mail vs traditional mail analogy is just nonsense but very amusing ;¬)

I am not sure what data you would want to sync with your PC that you are unable to? I think my opinion of iTunes is irrelevant - I would say that it works. You say you can sync all your HD2 data with a PC - not without buying a 3rd party app.

I would like to correct an error that is being perpetuated on this thread - that the iPhone does not allow you to reject a call - that is not true - if your phone is on then you are presented with two buttons - Decline or Answer - hopefully the function of these is self explanatory. If the phone is keypad locked then you just get the swipe to answer appear on the screen (I believe this is where the confusion arose) - if however you wish to reject the call you simply press the power button.

I do not wish to convert anyone on this forum to my opinion I would however like to warn people considering taking this on. I personally have many more important things to waste my life on than fighting with an aged operating system to get it to almost do what I want. I think the point is that we are comparing two very different beasts - the iPhone is very good at what it does out of the box. It is very limited in terms of customisation but that is part of what makes it work. WM is the opposite - great if you want to spend your life tinkering.
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
KeePass for WM is not available in Windows Marketplace, it is a FREE download from the INTERNET. How much does the iphone app cost then?

So. Does your iPhone synchronize your password file with your PC, so you can access the file using the desktop version of the software? Or not?
[HD2 General] samsamuel:
When they are talking about 'reject' they actually mean silence the phone and dont let the caller know you are ignoring them. Perhaps this is to prevent you from ignoring Mr Jobs when he calls to tell you you are not toeing the apple line! Heh
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Aged? Excuse me? Isn't the iPhone OS a version of UNIX with a flashy GUI tacked on over the top? Isn't UNIX older than WM?
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
59p or $1 and I don't know because I have no need for it.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Ever tried to give someone some pictures (holiday, parties...) you stored on your iPhone via iTunes?

Sucks, doesn't it? It's impossible. Same of course for music and video. And if you're not careful enough, someone else's PC/Mac will wipe your whole phone :D

The HD2: You plug it in, and there you go.To say it with Steve Jobs' own words: It's that simple.

No hassle, no iTunes, no wiping the phone.

And I don't know what third party app you're talking about, but I always thought Windows Mobile Device Center and Windows Media Player were free?!
[HD2 General] de5perate:
Whatever it's roots it works well - I am fully aware of some of it's limitations but it is mostly easy to use.

WM 6.5 seems to have inherited most of the features of Windows Me.
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Well, here's what I personally synchronize with my PC.

Email (inc. attachments)

Notes

Calendar

Contacts

Tasks

OneNote

Excel

Word

Powerpoint

Third Party data such as....

Password files

Databases

Financial Data (compatible with Quicken / MS Money)

All of that is synched every evening to my PC's RAID array which is backed up nightly to another hard drive.

I refuse to hand over my data to "The Cloud" and place it in the hands of any corporation.

My data. In My hands.
[HD2 General] freyberry:
ROFL at de5perate. Typical line used by iPhone fanboys, but it will never be true, no matter how often you repeat it.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Disable automatic itunes syncing and share with iphone explorer (free download from the internet).
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Maybe you're like the other iPhone user who would rather look out the windows than get weather data on his phone. Maybe you write all your user ids and passwords down in a paper notebook?

Or maybe you realized the HD2 won this particular debate - the iPhone of course cannot synch password files with a PC.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
You can sync with dopbox (internet service) but not sure about anything else. Possibly you cant sync it with the PC but there are sure to be good alternatives. Weather data is fine on the iphone thanks.

Has anyone bought SPB shell for $50 from windows marketplace? I mean its a good app and all but can you imagine anyone needing to get it with an iphone because their inherited UI was so bad?
[HD2 General] theclueless:
happened 3 times to me already; im charging my phone on my friend's computer, his finger had to press sync... #%*(@#&!
[HD2 General] freyberry:
1. hack your phone

2. download a third party app

3. pray that it won't break anything (it probably will, anyway)

And you call this 'just works' as opposed to

1. plug your phone in and share/sync whatever you want

Do you actually realize how ridiculous that is? For every single, basic feature, you iPhone users need some kind of workaround. That can hardly be called 'just works', can it?
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Its once only activity. After that its instant. And I am surprised at how averse you are to a couple of extra key presses. I would have thought win mo users would be used to it by now... along with hair pulling and crying in frustration.
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
What really amazes me is that iPhone users continually contradict themselves.

They say

"Steve Jobs says Flash is crap and that's why he won't let us have it, and I'm fine with that"

and then...

"You can do this [function] by jailbreaking your phone"

So on the one hand they're saying it's fine to hand control of your phone over to Jobs & Co., and on the other hand it's perfectly OK to circumvent all the lockdown on the phone in order to gain your freedom to do what you want with your phone!

So which is it? It can't be both!
[HD2 General] freyberry:
Yeah, you "would have thought" that. But it's not true.

In fact, I sold my iPhone because Windows Mobile did 'just work' for me, while the iPhone did not. It didn't let me do all the basic stuff I have been used to on other phones for years. And yes, jailbreaking it was the first thing I did.

It was the iPhone that had me hair pulling and crying in frustration, literally. And not only once.

Welcome to reality. What's the experience like when leaving Apple's reality distortion field?
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Lol, I have wasted thousands of pounds on win mo/htc devices since my first spv c500 device so I am seeing much better thank you. I like my HD2 but I am aware of what it can and cant do. And it can't do alot of things still but i am hopeful - win mo 7 and android.
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Firstly, go see http://pleasefixtheiphone.com if you want to see hair pulling and crying in frustration.

Secondly, I'm willing to wager that most functions on WM require less key presses than they do on the iPhone. For instance, to call someone from within ANY APPLICATION...

1. Press the CALL hardware button.

2. Start typing the recipient's number or name until the contact comes up

3. Click the contact

So what's the equivalent on the iPhone, if I'm in, say, any 3rd party app?
[HD2 General] Jim Coleman:
Oh? Like what?