yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
I had the same idea some time ago and posted it somewhere here hoping someone would be able to do something more out of it than my simple test app (here a short (and bad) demonstration video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKv9_-dd8Rc&fmt=34 )

The idea is rather simple and even I with my really limited programming knowledge was able to do something out of it. So now that this has gotten some attention I hope it will be developed into something usable.

edit: here is a link to my app http://raudi1.ra.funpic.de/Programs/Multitouch%20test.py

It's written with python so you need python ce with TkInter
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Wizard-of-Oz:
Cool, looked at your source and this is exactly what we're talking about. You should've drawn a green circle under the stationary finger to make it better looking, as you already have the event and the coordinates.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
Hoax?! the demo app is there which prevents any doubt!

the SDK actually returns 2 coords using the zoom event. gestures can be identified but not yet implemented as this is still in the early stages and just XDA preview.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
Yes, one finger must be kept as an anchor. For sure it will NEVER be as the capacitive multi touch, there WILL always be a hardware limitation. but even though, it's always nice to have something more from what we have got :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
It will take time to get any app supporting this but i'm sure of one thing, we used to say that pinch to zoom is impossible on resistive screens and here we are, even if it's not so accurate nor if you like to call it "semi-pinch", it was not there before and now it is so i'm quite sure that we CAN have it working nicly. :)

i actually would perfer the accuracy of the stylus + fairly working pinch to zoom over having a capacitive screen :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
this can be one option, although i don't think so, as it will be able to recognize and diffrenciate between guestures.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
And this is one way of identification, but still it caused alot of problems during my testings! it still needs alot of improvments.

great thinking btw :D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
It is still a proof of concept, nice thing to have as an extra benifit if it works successfully. i'm sure it won't be perfect but it can do the job neatly and nicly ;)

Come on everyone, this didn't come in a day or two for having such attacks! this is the result of alot of thinking.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
Accuracy can be achieved by setting the "tollerance" property of the SDK to give more ability to the anchor or finger movement (i know it's not steady and will not have an accurate point. it will keep changing even if you just use one finger on the screen by a certain margin which is the tollerance in the SDK)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
Nice work, i didn't test it but watched the youtube video.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] SOHKis:
very interesting & impressive. can't wait to see where this goes.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Yagami_ex:
I'll give the suggestion to the author of S2V to use this SDK to make a new version with multitouch zoom, then getting much better to use. Congratulations for this great work.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] cooleydan5:
im am very impressed that this has been achieved! can't wait for future developement.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] brandi:
How the f*** did you do this !?

Mod Edit: No need for that sort of language...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] scorpion_2005:
hi i think this is nothing because the image can be zoomed with one finger also and u can try the exe file on you pc it will appear the same image and just try to move the mouse on it and it will be zoom with you and i tried it on my hd and it zoomed with one finger i think it is nothing....sorry for my bad english
[Windows Mobile Software Development] xudsa II USERT:
Although it is limited, you still did a great job on trying to get it working on our resistive screens.:)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] nidalalmoghrabi:
nice work but need to be more sensitive touch in screen additionally it must be working in background to work in another application

can you make it as cab to install inside system and no need to make it work in background to work in another applications

جزاك الله خيرا
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vader165:
therein lies the panning zooming issue. if we put it in opera, ie, album, whatever, it will zoom but not pan. :(
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
When done right you will still be able to pan. Even in my app only really fast movements cause the multitouch with only one finger.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
please, zooming IN with one finger is a bug so stop mentioning it!

can you zoom out with one finger?! i'm sure not

sure, final version will have pinch2zoom, panning and rotation.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] jugend:
Hello,

well, I think it's a real great beginning, but it's a long, hard way to a final application :cool:.

And also it - of course - can't be real Multitouch, it can be really useful.

Thank you for this application! :D

jugend
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
Since nearly nobody has python ce, I made a new version of my test app from scratch.

This time it's a normal exe so everybody should be able to test it.

I also made the sensitivity configurable so you can play with it a bit. Zooming out would work quite well with it but zooming in would still be a bit tricky.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] frmariam:
This is killer news. I can already see it being used to improve the controls of games and emulators!

This is a segment that has never been great in WinMo. Will this finally bring forth new life into the gaming and emulation segment in the WinMo platform?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vader165:
thanks for clarifying this. hopefully they will understand that this is still a work in progress and read the thread title.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] waterskier33:
Wau that looks like real multitouch. This project is realy cool. Looking forward for using pinch to zoom in opera. Go on the great work guys.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] sergism:
Vow, amazing. Tested in Airis T482 (Winmo 6.0)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] solomhamada:
great news

you got me interested

i wish google will notice your sdk and add the support in their map app

also

i hope htc will and put your work in their album

great work .. best luck .. and i'll be tracing this topic
[Windows Mobile Software Development] GXFX:
Worked on my touch diamond p3700 !
[Windows Mobile Software Development] AdamiX:
It also works on my Raphael (Touch PRO RAPH100)

Not so great but it works :)

And thanks for your project. I know that this is just alpha so i think that it will be better in the future :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
Thanks for your support everyone,

i'm currently trying to do a trick, it might not work but if it does we will be able to do a pinch to zoom in opera and album :eek:.

i'm currently busy with one thing so the development is going a bit slow on the App, once that is done i will work full time on the SDK and the project.

Regards
[Windows Mobile Software Development] chelsea_fc:
also worked on my omnia2:D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
It should work on every phone with a resistive screen(All WinMo devices other than the Leo) because it isn't hardware dependent.

This trick just uses the fact that two presses are handled like one press in the middle of the two.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vader165:
excellent work. i think the app is such a small thing compared with having it in place throughout. also, is it possible you could include this capability in ie mobile? i use that for my light browsing. (which all my mobile browsing is)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] iniuboo:
i think you should add this app to the opera browser or ie browser
[Windows Mobile Software Development] HkDng:
How to install?????

Thanks.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] jugend:
Hello,

just put the .exe on your phone and start it!

jugend
[Windows Mobile Software Development] iniuboo:
if it able to zoom in opera and HTC album is better
[Windows Mobile Software Development] HkDng:
And then it just a demo one :(
[Windows Mobile Software Development] zhuozhi211:
Not sure if there is anyone like me... I actually prefer resistive screen than capacitive screen =P

But I do fancy multitouch such as the like of HD2.

So the idea of this SDK sounds really exciting to me! I hope it can be in production real soon. If so I would like to buy the developer a beer.

Keep up the good work! and thanks for your contribution.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] iniuboo:
agree with you

keep up the work:D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
I don't have much experience and knowledge but I think I would be able to make dualtouch work on opera, ie, album, or camera but I need to know two things to do so.

1. Some way to get the mouse move event etc. in the app that needs multitouch

2. A way to tell the app to zoom or whatever it is supposed to do when dualtouch is activated
[Windows Mobile Software Development] kniffo80:
I don't have much experience with WinMo Programming, i'm only a poor Java programmer (but i've got nearly 10 years experience with java programming), but as far as i know, you have to hook a background running process to the tap events. But that's not all, you need to get access to the programm itself. That means, the background running process intercepts the taps (or swipes) and has to "eat" the event and create a new one, that has to be passed to the application. THAT means, the program (as opera or album) needs an open interface to sent the commands to.

But as i stated: only an experienced java programmer ;-) so i hope, i'm wrong ;-)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] jerrry:
Another video with DualTouch app http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwDsxPKA48U (better quality than movie in first post)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] iniuboo:
But not pro than my clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppi9yvq6ru8

i check this topic every day.

hope some news from you.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
you are sort of right, it's a complicated task a bit but i think it can be done.

me too, the accuracy of resistive and the fancy of capacitive :)

thanks for the clip mate,

i can assure you that you will see something nice but i'm currently busy with this http://www.microsoft.com/gdc/saudi as i'm a speaker there.

once that is done i will free up for this :)

thanks for the video :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] P4d0uch:
WOW this is awesome i love Multitouch bud i hate Capative display.

i hope to support Opera etc.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
I tried to get the global mouse events but didn't find a solution because WinMo doesn't use hooks. I hope someone else knows how you can get the mouse events in opera or other programs.

Otherwise we could only try to talk to the developers of the programs and hope for help from them.

In Fennec it should be possible to implement dualtouch but in other programs I wouldn't know how to do it with my limited knowledge.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] kniffo80:
which programming language did you use? i think, .net is not possible. but pure c should be possible. i did it in windows already but i don't know win mobile. just try to program a little c++ .dll and bind it to the .net application. that should work.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
i typed a long reply but when i submitted the site just went down!

Hook will NOT work. i know that, tested it and with no luck!

capturing the Messages sent to the application IS possible.

Messages contain the Mouse_up, Down, Move events and the lparam contains the Coords (x,y).

so like "Remote Spy++" that comes along with VS2008, once we capture the messages we can do something like mouse hook :)

any one in for some coding?!

i perfer C#, but anything is welcome :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
I also use VS2008 and c#. So count me in for the coding.

For zooming in the applications we should perhaps look at the zoombar and look how it tells the applications to zoom in.

@anaadoul: If you are using firefox you should try http://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/6984

That way you won't loose the text you have typed.

http://xdaforums.com/member.php?u=1402236
[Windows Mobile Software Development] rajivshahi:
Looks promising.. hope you will give some time to further develop.... keep the good work mate...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Trekfan422991:
Multitouch on resistive screens

Hey guys i did some research and the lg incite also has aresistive touch screen so im assuming unless all else fails that it is another phone that it would work on
[Windows Mobile Software Development] aziz1:
thanks it works on my glofiish x900
[Windows Mobile Software Development] BenGman:
Zooms, taps and scrolls

The double tap zoom/out in Opera/Google Maps currently works fast and you can do while driving in one hand, wouldn't pinch zoom require 2 fingers instead of one and require a base to keep the phone secured/still while you use 2 fingers (therefore not driver friendly, not that I do it so often :o) ?

Opera also has a menu option to switch from text selection and panning from the auto hide bar. The sleeper app can have a similar option to switch from zooming to panning (but I think the developer said that in the final version the app will handle all zooms+pans automatically).

I used a program called FTouchSL http://www.ftouchsl.com/ that ran in the background and allowed scrolling/gestures in certain apps (IE on WM5, etc) and was configurable to exclude in certain apps with their own builtin scrolling and gestures (e.g. exclude in Opera). The program allowed you to configure scrolling in ANY/ALL apps on the device.

I figure scrolling/gestures is much simpler than multitouch, and I'm not a mobile programmer, but if FTouchSL can 'interface' with ANY/MOST apps shouldn't your SDK be able to do the same?

The HTC HD2 (leo) is at the top of my christmas wishlist, one reason is the multi-touch capabilities, but this SDK is giving me pause.

Keep up the good work!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vader165:
that's why many say capacitive is a gimmick since multitouch is not one-hand friendly. the zoom slider/ double tap is. but i'm not a super road-warrior driver type, so i'm eagerly waiting for this.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] iniuboo:
I can't wait. harryup anaadoul
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vader165:
has any progress been made on this project? we were also hyped for it.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] solidkundi:
Diamond oriented reply

hi i'm excited to hear there will soon be dual touch well sorta.....

I started a threat a while ago...asking Dev's to create a way for Diamond / Raphael Apps to use the capacitive touch buttons.... since its already capable of sensing Multi-touch to begin with...

Basically, if it was possible to utilize the [cap]touch ....alot is posible such as Trackpad for a mouse...use pinch inside the [cap] touch area...

or another idea is to

place one finger on capacitive touch area..and one finger on the screen for multi touch gestures....

I was hoping sum1 can give me if this is possible or is this something that'll never happend?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Blades:
Don't know if this has been asked or not.. but is it possible to use the leo digitizer on a resistive screen-based device? Physical dimension differences aside.. that would require some 'trimming' and tweaking.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] beejaytee:
Day by day, then a month

waiting for u!
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
I know it has been a while now, i'm working on it so don't worry it's comming but i'm having some difficulties.

i accidently dropped my Rhodium (TP2) and broke the digitizer, i'm currently using the LEO temporarly until i get the spare part of this (it's $20 on ebay and approx $300 in the local market so i have to wait), i have been promised that they will get it for a cheaper price (OEM but not through the dealer) in the next few days so let's hope i get it soon.

so far i have eliminated some bugs but i cannot publish for public as it is not stable.

wish me luck on the spare parts :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Reefhunter49:
Good luck!! :D
[Windows Mobile Software Development] lpachuong:
Geezzz. I have been waiting for 2 months, 2 years and 2 decades since I first tried this. Looking forward to good news from you guys :)
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
When a usable version of fennec comes out I will try writing an addon for it.

I will also try other kinds of multitouch zoom, because the pinch gesture is **** (at least for 1 hand use) and everyone only wants it because some company with an apple as their logo has spent millions to advertise the pinch zoom.

Only for the pinch zoom I wouldn't buy a device with multitouch. The real use of multitouch lies in Games. So instead of wanting this for browsers you should tell the game developers to implement it in their games. It's really simple when you know how it works.

ps: I can also share my source code with those of you who want to have dualtouch in their apps. Just let me know.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] lowert:
Hey Raudi!

I don't have an application yet, so I can't use your multitouch method in it, but I would like to have the source code, because I'm new to windows mobile programming, and I want to learn special techniques, so it would be great to have this kind of difficult source... I know how does it work, but I don't know any method to handle the screen in this way, you know... Can anybody please give me a link where I can learn every touch-related functions etc? Well, I have the SDK, but it would be better to read a walkthrough on it... If there is not anything like that, I will learn it from the SDK... OK, so it would be nice from you to post the source code!

Thank you!

Lowert
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
My source code should be quite easy because I'm no experienced programmer. This app was my first time not using the normal windows forms.

So I just used google to learn how to use drawing and how to get the mousedown event etc. Once you know how it works, it is quite easy.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] vo-1:
work perfect on my Omnia
[Windows Mobile Software Development] curiousGeorge:
Any news/updates on this?
[Windows Mobile Software Development] mike2nl:
This likes me a very interesting thing for web and grafics application...
[Windows Mobile Software Development] Raudi1:
It seems the development for Fennec on Windows mobile has been canceled, so I won't make a multitouch addon for it. So we still have to find a way to implement multitouch in Opera Mobile/Mini.

I've also bought a HD2 today and will take a look at the possibilities of real multitouch.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] anaadoul:
OK everyone, i know it has been along time but i broke my Touch Pro 2 and fixed it few days back, so the project is back into action.

the New BETA version of the SDK is almost ready, expected to be online by APRIL 1st.

Remember, this is just an SDK not an application. i have no knowledge how to create an album application so i can use my SDK.

if you are a developer and would like to use the SDK please let me know via PM or on Twitter (it's faster, i use PEEP). the new version will be well documented and ready for development.

so anyone interested in building an ALBUM application and utilize multi touch on resistive screens? let me know so i can send you the SDK before i put it here.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] dwallersv:
Yes, major kudos for working on this!

Unfortunately, if he is doing it the way I think he is, the only "pinch" mode that can ever be supported is plant one finger, move the other to zoom in or out.

The reason is hardware -- unless I'm mistaken, the resistive touch hardware reports a contact location that is the geometric weighted center of all contact points on the screen, so there is no way for software to distinguish this from a single press at that averaged location.

So, here's the trick: Look for a first press, save it's location. Look for a second press that is a translational "jump" from the first location, rather than a smooth drag (i.e. lots of events with x,y in close proximity to the previous event), and time that "down" for that new location. If it stays "down" for a certain period, then the down-jump-staydown is interpreted as two fingers on the display pressing down.

Now, we know the location of the first press, and we know the location of the averaged two-finger press, so we can calculate where the second finger actually is (x,y). As long as there isn't an "up" event -- i.e. the MouseMove events are fired before a MouseUp appears, this is interpreted as the second finger moving, and the corresponding pinch action can be calculated and simulated.

All good. However, there are limitations to this emulation that will simply make certain things that true multitouch can do. As one example, the first finger must be anchored, and all pinching action must be done with the second finger. For example, moving the first finger out to zoom will result in the same x,y events from MouseMove that moving the second finger in will create, looking like a shrink rather than a zoom, even though the user is expanding his fingers, expecting to zoom.

There is no way to code around this. The sensor sends exactly the same data either way, so the simulation of multitouch -- interpreting the single contact point movements according to the assumed anchored first press -- will not work right.
[Windows Mobile Software Development] dwallersv:
No, a fair amount of clever interpretation of the press events can do a pretty good job of determining when the reported location is a single touch, or the average of two fingers on the screen.

It all has to do with interpreting the sequencing of events. For example, it is impossible with one finger to produce the event profile of a two-finger placement: MouseDown, instant translocation of x,y when the other finger is placed, but no MouseUp event, then the position moves (Repeated MouseMove events) still with no MouseUp, then finally MouseUp when both fingers leave the screen.

You cannot reproduce this sequence with a single probe. So, in actual fact, it is possible to detect real multitouch on a resistive screen.

However, since there is only a single position reported by the screen hardware, the information available under multitouch scenarios is limited. Software can tell definitively whether there is one, or multiple contacts on the screen; however, the limited information returned constrains the gestures that can be used.