yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
Wow! I don’t mean to sound patronizing but I am genuinely impressed by the quality of responses to this question. Someone actually dared to ask a question about comparing WM vs. Android and there wasn’t any of the typical flame war style responses. Thanks guys! Just one more reason why I like the XDA forums.

I have been looking for a clear and concise answer (or partial answer) on this exact topic myself. I was hoping to get a quantifiable “here’s why I like Android” or “here’s why I like WM” response and I finally found something in this discussion.

I find that a certain anti-Microsoft sentiment often clouds these discussions to the point where they are not useful.

I have been using WM for *years* and develop applications for it. I am also supporting over 50+ Windows Mobile-based devices in the enterprise (warehouse & sales force automation apps). So when people come out and say stuff like “WM is slow, bloated and buggy” I find it an unhelpful response. I just have to chalk their comments up to anti-Microsoft sentiment that is so popular these days.

From this discussion I have a partial conclusion. It seems that the main difference between WM and Android are from a “user experience” perspective. Both of them seem to be reliable robust platforms from an OS perspective. The problem is that the WM interface is dated and heavily stylus oriented. Microsoft’s response to this is to make things “bigger” but not to radically rethink the user interface.

Windows Mobile in its present form bears an uncanny resemblance to Pocket PC 2002. This was designed to compete (and win) against the then popular PalmOS.

Android represents a complete rethink from a user interface perspective. On top of that companies like HTC add their own stuff like SenseUI (on Android) and TouchFLO (on WM) that change the user experience some more. So sometimes that makes the discussion more about the phone manufacturer (HTC vs. Samsung for example) then about the platform itself.

Microsoft is in a tough spot with WM right now. There is a huge install base of mobile business apps running on industrialized PDA’s (stuff like the MC75, MC55, Intermec CN50, etc, etc). The Purolator guys use WM for proof-of-delivery. These types of apps are often custom developed, expensive and have long life cycles. They are not sexy but they get work done.

Radically rethinking the WM user interface would likely break a lot of these types of applications. Everyone knows when switching to Android that their existing WM apps will not run. But everyone expects their existing WM apps from 1998 to run unmodified on the latest version of WM (and surprisingly they often do).

So how does Microsoft keep WM dominant in the business sector while at the same time making it “exciting and sexy” in the rapidly changing consumer marketplace?

Tough spot indeed. I wonder what they will do. I do love the competition from Android (and iPhone) and expect to see cool stuff from WM in the future. I just hope it doesn’t break too many of my 10+ year old apps ;-)

Regards,

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] fiktion:
thefish,

I've read that Microsoft have no plans after WM7. Part of this being because consumer focus has shifted so much to Android and Apple.

Also, from what I've read, Microsoft charges X amount of dollars for each phone a manufacturer ships with WM. Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a business trying to make money, and I do not hate Microsoft at all for this practice, or any other reason.

On the other hand, Android charges $0 per phone shipped with their OS. Right there that probably gives manufacturers more incentive to develop phones and software around Android.

WM is more for the business professional, whereas Android is more consumer based, I think. I enjoyed my time with Windows Mobile, but it's becoming more and more dated, and they are struggling to keep up. For Microsoft's sake, that is if they want to continue Windows Mobile, I hope that WM7 is completely revamped.

And, oh yes, it has been nice not seeing anyone beating their chests about their favorite OS.:D
[Touch CDMA General] ahbroody:
I really liked win 6.5 till yesterday when my screen died. :mad:

Played with android and didnt like it. Just not my deal. 6.5 was great for how I use my phone. A lot of data and texting and viewing documents. I am not into cute apps or games.

I want to stream live games using skyfire browser, surf the web, text a lot, view douments, and occassionally use gps. For me this means windows wins. I dont believe android has a browser out that allows for using sites like justin or ustream so for me it is not a good choice. To say android wins is all dependent on what you use it for. My buddy just got the hero and after a month is pissed and wishes he had waited for the hd2
[Touch CDMA General] plemen:
Hmm - the only thing I can suggest is to try one of the donut builds; make sure your resolution is set to 240x320 with lcd.density at 120. But if you turned down the Droid (seems like the pinnacle of Android devices right now) I don't think you'll be overly impressed with Android on the vogue :)

Other things to try are even lower lcd.denisty.
[Touch CDMA General] tatnai:
to increase the font size, try using spare parts. you can directly increase or decrease the font size, irrespective of lcd.density.

my personal favorite resolution/density is 240x320/110. i like the smaller icons and font size that this gives.

For me, I agree with the user about always changing win mo. every time I flash a win mo custom rom, I spend hours changing and theming it to be perfect to my liking. with android, I don't have to 'cause it is already a beautiful, useable interface. I love the google integration. I love the marketplace.

I think that win mo really appeals to people who use their phone as a tool - to get junk done. android/iphone appeals to people who, when they pick up their phone, want to have a good experience. The tool people pick up an android phone, and to them, the experience gets in the way of getting junk done, as they have been used to getting junk done in windows for years; with android/iphone, you can no longer be efficient with a new experience, cause with every transition there is a learning curve that initially decreases efficiency.

I think that the experience android gives is top notch, and it allows you to be just as efficient and task oriented once you stop trying to do things the "windows" way. I think that straight up, with no prior mobile phone experience, if you picked up an android phone and a win mo phone, most would go with android because it is just easier to fall into and get comfortable with than win mo. however, if your brain already thinks in win mo and you are dependent on your phone and task driven, you are initially frustrated with android.

for me, android all the way. I was a die hard iGo TTS navigation user (awesome program), and refused to dump windows for that. even though we don't have full navigation on the vogue, I flashed android to the nand and got rid of win mo for good, I just like android that much more.

anyways, just my three cents.
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
hi fiktion,

I have heard the same thing and I am doubtful it means that people think it does. It is a little like saying that Microsoft has no plays after Windows 8. Sure, right now Microsoft is working on Windows Mobile 7. This very likely does not mean they are planning on dumping it after that.

The reason I say this is because Windows Mobile is *WAY* bigger then the few consumer market devices it appears on. Windows Mobile is a particular “user experience” built on Windows CE. Windows CE is the underlying OS that runs on all kinds of devices. It powers everything from vehicle mounted dispatch systems to ruggedized devices used by the military. Dumping Windows CE would be like discontinuing Windows itself.

I find it highly unlikely that Microsoft is going to exit the market because of a little heat from Apple or Android. People like to think they might however hence the proliferation of rumors.

Right you are! That is exactly how it works. And I agree with you that this will be a very compelling reason for manufacturers to begin building Android devices. I expect we will start seeing devices from Symbol (like the MC75) with the option of Android or Windows Mobile in the foreseeable future.

I also expect the Android devices to be cheaper then their WM counterparts. However this also creates the impression that the WM version is worth more. I also expect the cost difference to be a fraction of the overall price. Devices like the MC75 cost over $2,000 CDN a piece. I expect about $60 of that is WM licensing.

We have the same thing in the desktop PC world today. Let’s not forget that Linux has been around for a long time and some PC’s have VERY good support for it. Everyone makes a big deal when Dell or IBM starts shipping a model here or there with the option of Linux. But the truth is still that the *vast* majority of PC’s shipped by Dell are Windows boxes.

And there is nothing wrong with Linux either. Personally I run Linux on one of my machines.

Android is cool, its here to stay and will become part of the mobile landscape. But will it change the world? I find that unlikely.

Regards,

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] fiktion:
Oh, I don't believe Microsoft will stop developing WM anytime soon, but if they don't revamp it, I believe they will lose quite a bit of their consumer base. They have a very big professional base. Companies contract their phones out, and as you said, the software is used in nav systems, car stereos, etc.
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
All this talk of android… I want to try it :-)

If I want to run Android on my Vogue (Bell Mobility) what is the best way to do this? My primary concern would be getting a true-as-possible user experience. I would rather run an “older” version where everything works then the newest version but some features do not work.

Is there an android build that can be flashed to my vogue (replacing WM) that is suitable for everday use?

Best regards,

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] jamezelle:
here is the 1.5 ion "cupcake build". it is the most stable build that hasnt been updated since august. why? you ask.... because it doesnt need an update:D

this is a flash kit i personally havent tried to flash this build but i have run it from my sdcard a while back. you wont be disappointed:)

calls

data

sms

gps

and partial bluetooth all work.
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
Ok, ok... I did it. I installed the “cupcake build” you suggested. I actually found that build a few days ago and had it sitting on my computer... waiting.

I must admit I am very impressed! There are a few features that are simply indispensible that MUST make their way into Windows Mobile. I hope Microsoft is listening because I really do love Windows Mobile and long for the day I can wax poetic about it again.

First of the voice recognition & search feature! This is so very useful especially on Google Maps. I could have used it today.

I had driven out to see a customer new 2+ hours away. After 4 hours onsite I was on my way back and I was very hungry. I wanted to stop for lunch and specifically had a hankering for Mr. Sub. No, I did not want Subway, Tim Horton’s, Wendy’s or anything else. After nearly 4 hours of driving in one day I should be able to get the lunch I wanted right?

So I pulled over, whipped out my WM phone, launched Google Maps and wrote out (using text-recognizer) “Mr. Sub”. Thinking this was very cool I located myself and figured out where to go.

Now, tonight after installing Android, I tested the same scenario. With a great deal of skepticism I pressed on the little microphone in Google Maps and said (quite loudly) “Mr Sub”. And guess what?!?!?! If found 3 of them in the city I live in. Now that would have saved me some stylus time.

After some more fiddling I figured out I did not need to bellow “Mr Sub” quite as loudly as I did which I am sure my wife would have appreciated. I got quite the surprised look considering she had no idea what I was doing. Imagine someone bellowing “Mr Sub” at the top of his lungs without any apparent reason. We had a good laugh.

Anyway, I have a few questions.

1) When I sweep down from the top of the screen I get the notifications to show. It also adds the date to the top bar. How can I get the date to show in the top all the time? Their appears to be room for it.

2) On a few occasions I got it into landscape mode which I found very useful for typing on the onscreen keyboard but not much else. I am not sure how I did this and not sure how to turn it back to normal. I had to resort to soft rebooting my Vogue (I feel stupid asking this but someone out there knows). As far as I know the Vogue does not have the internal hardware for the auto-rotate capabilities.

3) Everything appears to work (which is very nice). Is there anything I am missing out on by running this “old” build? Should I be considering upgrading to 1.6 or even 2.0.x? If so, what ROM should I use? (in any case I will likely stick with this for a while).

Best regards,

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] yes_senpai:
1.5 is a good build. If you really want to go deep into android's features try out 1.6 or even hero.

As for your questions...

1) I believe you cant. Maybe some home replacements allow you to though. Check out ahome, openhome, freshface and there are plenty others.

2)Hit your talk button...or open up a program that must run in portrait and it should go back to normal.

3)I prefer 1.6, it is sooo fast and has the most "Android Features"

Has for hero...it can be sorta fast, but by far the slowest of them all. It will give you the most features over all. Mainly "HTC Features"

Here is a donut link...my fav

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=578627

And here is a Hero Link...my fav too.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=603028

Also here is a turtorial for booting to NAND. This may help you with the hero a bit...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=603508
[Touch CDMA General] fiktion:
Well, the Hero builds are HTC themed 1.5 builds that are, as said, the slowest of them all.

The landscape mode issue, I believe someone set it to where if you pressed camera, and left or right on the directional pad, it would rotate (been a long time since I've ran Android on my Vogue).

1.6, Donut, is nice. It's what I run on my G1, granted I run Cyanogen's build. 1.6 on the G1 has turn-by-turn navigation in Google Maps, which, is freakin awesome! I don't know if they have it in the Vogue builds, yet. But, I definitely do recommend you try out the Donut build on your Vogue.
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
Key mapping on Android 1.5

Hi everyone,

I have recently installed the cupcake Android build on my Vogue. Overall I am very impressed with it. However I am wondering if there is something I can do about how the keys are setup. Currently they work like this:

Power Button = Menu Button

Camera Button = Back Button

Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown

It seems unnatural to me that I have to use the Hang-Up button to turn off the phone but use the power button to turn it back on. I also dislike using the camera button as the back button. Perhaps I am just craving how these keys worked under Windows Mobile but I feel a *far* more intuitive setup would be something like this:

Power button = turn phone on when off or in standby (this is as it is now)

Power button (normal press) = standby

Power button (long press) = silence/airplane/shutdown

Hang-up Button (normal press) = back

Hang-up Button (long press) = home screen

Camera Button = Menu

So, in short I would like it if:

the hang-up button did what the camera button does now

The Power button did what the hang-up button does now

And the camera button did what the power button does now.

Anyway I can achieve this?

Thanks,

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] tatnai:
1. on first boot, by default under Settings > Sound & Display, the setting "Orientation" is checked; uncheck this.

2. then longpress power for 2 seconds to toggle landscape on and off
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
Hi tatnai,

Thanks, I had figured that out already after a great deal of guessing... Thanks anyway thought and now it's documented for future googlers :-)

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] tatnai:
so over the life span of android on vogue we have had about three or four different keymaps. each has their problem; here are a few reasons why things are the way they are now. I believe mssmison stated in another post that they are working on a program that would allow you to adjust keymaps from within android. also, there is a file you can edit yourself (would have to look it up, it's been posted, can't tell you off-hand).

1. spare parts has an option to use the red button to go to home on first press, and then to sleep on second press. this does not work in donut; there are cyanogen-mod builds that have fixed this, and zenulator has a version of spare parts on his site with this fixed for donut, but I could not install it on my donut build.

2. the power button and end button have special functionality, so changing there function from what they are now can cause other problems in android.

3. we have a limited number of buttons, so any configuration that includes all buttons either needs long press configs, or a shift key to toggle additional function of certain keys. current configuration lacks a button for the running programs menu, mainly because we had to use long press camera for "home" since in donut we can't use the red button as noted in number 1.

I'm looking forward to a gui to change the keymaps when it gets completed. Everyone uses there buttons differently, so there is no perfect solution until then.
[Touch CDMA General] thefish123:
I would love to find that file and mess around. If I break something I will just re-flash to the stock ROM from Bell and start over. I will see if I can find it unless someone can point me in the right direction.

That was my thinking exactly. It seems to me that the current configuration does modify the special behavior of the power and hang-up buttons. The power button should be used to turn the device on AND off. Currently the red hang-up button puts the device into standby (short press) or turns it off (long press). I think the power/standby functions belong on the power button.

Maybe it’s cause I am new to Android platform or maybe its cause I am on Cupcake but I am actually perfectly happy with the features we have exposed via the existing keys. I don’t feel that anything is missing. I just wish I could move them around :-)

I have to agree and yet (not to be boastful) I think the mapping I suggested is pretty darn close to perfect. It would use all of the buttons in their intended way (the way that HTC designed them to work under the original firmware). The only exception would really be that the camera button would work as the “menu” button. Everything else would function as it did under WM.

Best regards,

The Fish
[Touch CDMA General] amunir:
My reason

Hello.. I thought I would add my 2 cents..

WM..

+ well first off everything works..

+ althought it doesnt have a a good marketplace.. i like the customization abilities and feel i can customize it way more than android (this might be because i dont know anything about android)

+ wm 6.5 finger friendly

- WM 6.1 looks too old for my liking.. :P

- WM 6.5 kinda lags a bit.. its not too slow but once in a while.. there is lag

- wm6.1 not finger friendly

+ considering i use windows os on pc.. it syncs really well with my software

+ considering hotmail is primary email for me.. it helps

Android

+ works really fast and smooth

+ marketplace free apps (although enough apps are useless and trial versions) its a cool thing to mess around with

+ the home screens and widgets.. i love it and it doesnt slow it down or nething

+ finger friendly

- some things dont work.. like camera with ****ty quality blue tooth etc. (prolly cuz its not an android phone.. but its a vogue forum so its relevant)

- the email system is wierd.. i dont like how it checks emails

- i like to sync with outlook n hotmail.. now i havee to make a google account

overall right now i go bak n forth dependin on how fed up i get of the os.. but generally if everythin worked on vogue w/ android i would stick to it.. its just way faster and really all i do is text and call and occasional browse. n maybe youtube.. its way faster for me and the experience is generally smoother and better..

ne way those r my OPINIONS only so im sure people will differ :)
[Touch CDMA General] jamezelle:
yeah that would just about do it!:D
[Touch CDMA General] novafreak69:
Does this have to be on the card by itself.... cause when I tried it.. the install hung.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] da9th_one:
I downloaded the my phone cab from the ms website, and when I attempt to set it up, I get kicked out of the app on step 2 of 6...i desperately need this to sync my contacts and text msgs...

I deleted and re-downloaded the app, and the same happens...

Is there a fix for this...??? little help...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] The Jack of Clubs:
http://mobile.microsoft.com/myphone/en-us/default.mspx <- up to date with that right? signed up on a computer? dunno what else it could be.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] joshkoss:
hey man, What error you getting? try heading out to the microsoft site and setting up a live account and then use that email adress and pw when signing into the app.

Peace man,

Josh
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] da9th_one:
thanks for the replies guys...i actually found a "fix" this morning...instead of downloading it from the ms website, I downloaded the app from the WM Market place, and it worked....I dont know what the difference is/was, but it worked...

All of my contact are currently sync'd with mail2web via active sync...when attempting to sync my contacts to "My Phone" it wont sync them...when i attempt to cancel the mail2web active sync, so i can switch to the "my phone" sync, it says it will delete all of my sync'd contacts...!!! Thats every freaking contact i have...!!! WTF IS THIS CRAP...

Now im copying all contacts to my sim card, then i will delete the mail2web sync, then sync the contacts with "my phone"

Thanks for making is all so simple microsoft...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] rajuabju:
Glad you got it working.

I have to admit, the MyPhone backup is pretty damn good at what it does.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nitr00:
Yes it is a nice tool

IF

the MS my phone servers ain't down...

Just when you need it...

:mad:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] charleswesde:
Yeah myphone seems a little sketchy, or at least it did when I last used it, of course then it was beta so maybe its better now. I've found I prefer PIM backup though.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] zelendel:
Just in case if your like me with more contacts then the sim can hold Grab PIM back up and use that, then delete the mail2web sync then use pim to restore and then use my phone, that is how I had to do it at first
[General Questions and Answers] Iridox:
Hey guys...

I'm pretty new to Android (just got my Moto Droid on release day in Nov). I keep noticing that it seems to be a major task to port things from once device to another....

It was my understanding that Android runs on a linux kernel... shouldn't the compatibility be as simple as just including the right drivers for each device? Maybe I'm vastly underestimating the OS or something... could someone clarify this for me?

Also, are most of the phone's graphics in vector formats? I would think upscaling them to the right resolution would be relatively painless and allow for a wide variety of screen sizes/pixel densities...

Please let me know if I'm totally offbase with this, just curious as to the challenges of Android.