yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
What's the big deal?

Why does everyone make such a big fuss over the RAM? You can't use it to open more programs at once or anything. The only practical use for it is to increase the memory cache of some programs.

WM is built on the CE5.2 framework. The memory architecture is divided into 32 total process slots. Every slot has a maximum capacity of 32MB. (See where I'm going with this yet?) The user can only have about 10 or so processes running at a time. There are normally around 18 or so processes that are running in the OS. These numbers may vary based on the ROM you are using, but it isn't the point. The point is that if you multiply 10 processes times 32MB each at MAX, WM only lets you use about 320MB of RAM TOTAL!

This doesn't even come close to the default 448MB of RAM that you start with. You see now that it doesn't really matter? Most users will probably never use the additional RAM. It's just that we want to see that all of the specs we paid for can be ours. Other than that, it is really WM that won't let you use the extra RAM, not the ROM, radio, or neighbor. :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Mister B:
Interesting point, I only have 451MB on my T-Mob with correct HSPL, Radio & ROM as Sig but it never bothered me as I never get close to using it all so as you say no point in chasing for a fix, assume my older build ROM was not enabled.

Also read a few comments on the larger RAM slowing things down ! don't know if there is any truth in that ! ...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] christty31:
but what about the internal storage?

only 196 mb? :( no 512 mb?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Mr Black'd:
LOL that is a great point man I totally agree.

Lets hope that in the future they will actually do something better than Vista.

Till then NRG we all love you here man ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
You will either have 1024MB or 512MB of TOTAL internal storage depending on whether you have a T-Mobile branded Leo or any other one respectively. This total includes the space occupied by the ROM. Therefore, you may not have access to the full amount of storage due to the ROM and Program memory typically taking up about 250MB or less of the space depending on the chef and ROM. 196MB is kind of low, however. I assume you have something else installed in there eating up the space.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] NRGZ28:
You're forgetting about HTC's "XHammer" driver that forces HTC processes like Manila (Sense) into the higher regions of RAM not normally accessible by the regular kernel :) HTC isn't stupid.. they're definitely taking advantage of that RAM... WM on the other hand isn't all that great at managing the rest :)

Sigh.. does it really matter christty31 ? Can't you just ENJOY the phone for it is and stop worrying about exact numbers ?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
Oh, yeah. That's why manila is usually in slot 4 or 5. I forgot about that. :)

Exactly. Free internal memory should only be a problem if you decide to load an uncompressed ROM on a 512Leo. I'm not sure who would do such a thing, though I wouldn't be surprised.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
LOL :p

Sure, there's almost too much available RAM, compared to how hard it was to spare some in our poor old HD ! :D

Actually, it's internal storage flash ROM that's really cheap on the HD2 : it has even less free space than the HD !!! :mad:

Did you notice that the new Windows 8 looks a lot like our mobile phones interfaces ? They even added an all-icons Start menu looking like our good old WM 6.5 honeycomb Start menu ! :D

Maybe MS will finally give us a replacement Windows Mobile Pro, and maybe it will be version 8... Who knows ? ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
It would actually matter on compressed ROMs, as buffers are needed to uncompress files on the run.

Files, programs and pictures can't be used under their compressed forms and have to be uncompressed anyway before being usable.

So the uncompressing process actually needs some spare RAM as a buffer, plus it needs some calculation time from the processor.

Apart from the storage space benefit, compressed files have been used for a long time as uncompressing process was generally faster than loading a large file (RAM has always been faster than disks or flash ROM, especially static RAM, though this kind of RAM is rarely used nowadays).

It actually varies with the flash ROM speed : as technology evolves, faster processors and faster flash ROM chips are constantly competiting, so for instance, an "Extreme" ROM could actually run slower with a faster processor...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
I was talking about internal storage memory in the post you quoted there, not RAM.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
Oh, LOL, sorry for the misread... OK, then I have to disagree to your statement : the too tiny amount of internal memory IS a really problem even with compressed ROMs.

Today I have 3 additional Sense tabs and HTC Messaging installed... No, or almost no internal programs (only a few system tools running in the background, that couldn't stand to be disconnected in USB drive mode)...

No emails, only a few SMSs and twitts... Absolutely no document nor music nor any other personal files, they're all on the SD card ; all original wallpapers deleted, etc.

... And I've only 7 MB free storage memory left.

Of course, it will go better when I'll flash a new ROM including all my fixes already, as they spill room, but there's obviously not enough storage memory with only 512 MB.

The strange thing is although HD2 ROMs are still about 10 MB larger than the same versions HD ROMs, the HD has almost twice as much free storage memory before adding anything else.

A 10 MB larger NBH file can hardly explain more than 120 MB lost in the end... There's something weird there ! :p

The first thing I noticed when going from the HD to the HD2, was the "Storage" and "program" memory amounts were inverted. 320 MB weren't huge, of course, but I never had internal storage problems with the HD, while they're a constant worry on the HD2.

I would really know what to do with the T-Mouse models' 1024 MB... I also regret the HD2 doesn't have a front camera, btw. With just that, it would have been the absolute perfect device ! ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
I don't know where your memory is going then. I barely break the 600MB of storage on my 1024Leo after installing an uncompressed ROM along with all of the programs.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] christty31:
i found an clear explanation about the internal storage and RAM:

ROM - 512meg, minus however much the rom takes up once flashed and installed.

RAM - stock - 448 total minus 128 graphics - shows total ram 320mb - available ram = 320 minus whatever the system uses when running.

RAM - With unlocked ram(like minw) - 576 minus 128gfx = 448mb total, (453,xxx cos reported in kilobytes not megabytes) - minus whatever the system uses to run.

i think this is right :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
You've got it! :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] christty31:
but i t seems that internal storage has its own personality... :(

today the free space is 88 mb, yesterday was 91 mb.

and i did not installed anything on the internal storage.....
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
Having 1024 MB flash ROM instead of my 512 MB, it means you'd have only 88 MB left if your setup was running on an european HD2.

88 MB are not so much...

Why I have even less is as I explained : I had to fix a lot of bugs / misses / mistranslations in previous Energy ROMs and still running the 29007, not containing any of my fixes, so I had to drop loads of files into my \Windows folder from my huge fixes CAB.

I'll be far more at ease when I'll flash the latest 29022, as NRGZ28 included all my fixes, but I've not finished to sort and backup all I have tried, tweaked and installed yet, and I'm currently working on translating HTC Messaging version 1.8.20193733...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
Oh, yea. I keep forgetting that you use the French version. Yes, the fixes and things make up the missing space. My mistake. :o
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] christty31:
deleting wallpapers and rings save me about 10 MB internal storage :)

i don't know but when i had TP2 i didn't have such issues with the internal storage...

strange....
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
Same as Touch HD : if you're looking closely at how the "programs" and "storage" memory amounts are displayed, you'll notice the values are inverted on the HD2.

If you remember Windows Mobile 2003 or WM 5, you had a setting allowing to balance memory usage between programs and storage... In those days, pocket PCs had only 64 MB flash ROM (128 MB at best) !

Under WM 6, those values seem to have been fixed. The problem is, on the TP2 (and HD), more memory was allowed to storage than to programs, so we almost never lacked space. The HD2 features the exact opposite setup, while still having the same (512 MB) total memory amount.

I remember the guy who sold me his HD had completely filled in his HD2's internal storage memory on the first day, just by restoring his emails ! :D

Now one has to figure out what "programs" memory exactly means.

It's obviously not the RAM, as it has always been displayed separately (i.e. not in the "storage" topic). Since you'll obviously install and run programs on your phone and I can't see how the OS could distinguish between an actual program or related files, we must suppose that "programs" means what's stored in ROM, plus maybe some spare work space, such as internal databases, temporary files and so on (or I really can't see why so much more flash ROM is required by the HD2 system as compared to former models).

Now I'm wondering if it's related to a fixed memory addresses pool (a "window") through which the system actually sees the ROM, while the remaining addresses are allowed for free reading and writing, or if the whole 512 MB "memory" is actually just one unique flash ROM chip.

Then why is it divided like that ? Can it be setup differently ? Maybe from the OS kitchen settings ?

Who knows more about that ?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Sugocy:
Question/Remark/Newest version! :)

Reading this thread page did make me smarter.....and I had to laugh a couple of times as well! Haha;)

29022 nice as always! Even with rafdroid running SD :) No bugs so far. Though I still see the QualCom screen! (that is not a bug :P )

Cheers Sugocy.

Ps. Someone who can share a cabfile with the MP3-trimmer from the Blackstone? (HD2 has black layout HD had (nimp) white lay out) The latter being for more finger friendly!
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] thesilentnight:
Elegancia Theme?

Still patiently waiting on the Elegancia Theme....
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
Actually, it looks like I thought wrong.

The old style programs / data ratio apparently concerned RAM on older WM versions (back to WM 2003), and an additional internal battery had to keep data alive for at least 72 hours in case the main battery went empty. It also drained more current from the battery.

If I clearly understood all the stuff, here is how the memory is actually organized in our modern devices :

- The ROM and the internal storage flash memory are seen as a continuous memory chunk ;

- Programs are loaded in RAM before execution, as they have always do on any computer (it looks like it wasn't the case before, or maybe the ROM contentes was duplicated in RAM ?)

- If you replace a file in ROM by another wearing the same name inside the same folder, it will be loaded and executed instead (we all know that), but it's unclear if it's because the ROM is first duplicated to storage flash memory or anything else ;

Of course, doing that will occupy more space, that's why I've got so few free storage memory with my fixes.

What I can't still understand is the meaning of the occupied / free memory amounts of each programs and storage areas.

My HD2 currently displays :

Total storage : 200.27 MB

Used storage : 192.18 MB

Free storage : 8,10 MB

Total programs : 451.23 MB

Used programs : 213.08 MB

Free programs : 238.15 MB

If we guess that total storage + programs memory should represent the announced "ROM" space, then we get 200.27 + 451.23 = 651.50 MB flash ROM !

Is it possible ?

Now if we guess there's actually only 451.23 MB total internal flash ROM (maybe the difference to 512 MB would be occupied by the radio ROM, HSPL and bootstrap), maybe the actual available storage space is represented by the free 238.15 MB ?

But in that case, why are there only 200.27 MB free storage space ? Does the difference come from the file system ?

Because if it's not the case, then it clearly looks like there's 238.15 MB wasted space !!!

It would also mean that the more files are crammed in ROM when flashing, the better, so NRGZ28 would have to offer the more complete ROMs as possible...

Or am I wrong somewhere ?

I still have to look for more information about how the memory is managed in our devices. :)

If you're sure the HD version contains this version, I'll extract it from the NBH file. :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
The Total storage figure is the amount of free internal memory you have left to use up after the ROM takes up it's share. If you are replacing ROM files, then, as far as I recall, the ROM files get duplicated to have in the event of a hard reset. Therefore, you should check your total storage memory figure immediately after flashing the ROM and then after dropping in your modifications. This should account for the lost storage space.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
I was thinking about such a mechanism, but I think it goes further than just the eventuality of a hard reset :

- When you delete a duplicate file wearing the same name, the ROM version comes back instantly (it shows immediately in a file explorer).

- If you haven't replaced it by a duplicate and the file is in ROM, you'll get a message saying you actually can't delete it (maybe it just checks some additional attribute informing the file is in ROM, I don't know. File explorers have an option not to show ROM files, so they obviously can be identified as such, whatever method is used).

What you said means that a larger ROM will actually occupy more storage space.

The displayed total storage memory would then represent all or part of the remaining flash memory (though the latter is larger than the former on my HD2).

But I also read that the ROM and the flash memory were seen as whole, contiguous space (somewhat the same manner as WP7 sees the internal and SD card memory as a whole - sort of MS Active directory or RAID 1 partition).

Here are the information I found : http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/5.0/memory_management.htm

It says there's only one unique flash ROM space, split into "ROM" (write protected area) and "storage", with a common FAT and directory, allowing files put in the "storage" half to overlap the same ones located in the "ROM" half.

I then still can't really figure if the "programs free" area is really free (and wasted) or if it actually represents the "storage" area.

I'm also wondering if both sizes could be modfied somewhere. The Touch HD using similar ROMs still has almost twice as much total storage space !

I'll check carefully the values I'll get next flash, to see if a larger (or smaller) ROM gives less (or more) total storage space, or if this size is actually fixed.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Mister B:
Incoming call screen lock enhancement needed

Anyone know of a better Incoming call screen solution for HTC dialer.

Problem is the incoming call screen is not full screen & shows lower bar. Although while incoming call is in process (phone ringing) an accidental tap on say the start icon will not open start menu but if you do not answer call it will open start menu as soon as caller ends call & the screen lock will not be on. Real pain when in my pocket (even with screen sensitivity reduced & inside a cloth holder screen can accidentally be activated)

Looked at lockscreen software such as S2U2, PocketShield, PocketShield Proximity & PhonEx dialer.

Lockscreens had varying issues & interfaces I did not like, PhonEx incoming call screen is exactly as HTC should of done it (Full Screen) but design & rest of dialler is not so sweet.

Anyone know if hiding lower bar is possible on incoming call or other enhancements that can be done to HTC standard incoming call screen ... Don't really want heavy third party apps as standard Driod style NRG lockscreen & HTC dialer is perfect except for the incoming call screen.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] stevedebi:
Many programs cache data on the internal storage. Google maps, for example.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] NRGZ28:
Yeah.. I didn't even bother explaining that. Don't think he/she would understand that concept... :rolleyes:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
Yep, that's why I'm sometimes bothered with so few free internal memory (now I'm even not able to install a large CAB anymore !) :p

I recently found an article explaining we should actually change the cache and temporary files folders to the SD card from the registry, as since flash ROM has a limitated number of write cycle, leaving them there could quickly damage it, and since it can't be removed and changed, it would mean having to trash the phone and buy another...

The problem is this article was written when most pocket PCs had two SD cards slots, back to WM 2003 or WM5 (I had an HP iPaq with an SD slot and a mini-SD slot, for instance), so moving the cache folders to one card that should never been removed could be a good idea, while using the other one to swap user data from different cards could still be possible.

Now with our unique micro SD slot and the system loosing access to the card when plugging the phone into USB drive mode, it would rather be a bad idea, so we'd better keep the cache in internal memory ! :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
Flash memory does indeed degrade over time, but by the time that happens, you'll already be using another device and driving a flying car. Flash memory normally has a life span of roughly twenty years of normal use. With our use of it, perhaps it would be ten years. Either way, that is longer than I plan to continue using my Leo. :)

EDIT: I gave the years of use, because I don't remember the exact write cycles. I did the math on the write cycles once before, and it worked out to right about 22 years of normal use. Obviously flashing ROMs and such will weaken it further, but, as I mentioned, you won't see it go bad unless you keep this device in use for a decade at the very least.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
OK, it should be enough, then. ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
The Flash Memory Wikipedia article has much more valuable information than I could hand out off the top of my head. Our devices generally have at least one million program erase cycles to them. It's a very long life span. Just make sure that you don't defragment any type of flash memory and you're fine.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
The problem is with cache, buffers, swap files and so on.

OS and Programs could easily trigger several erase/write cycles per second, so your million cycles won't mean much.

Let's simulate...

Consider your processes write 10 times a second to the same area where cache files are located.

This is 36 000 times per hour.

Assuming you'll actively use your device no more than 8 hours a day, you've reached 288 000 cycles a day already.

That's less than 3.5 days lifespan !

In conclusion, you really, really need to activate RAM caching, or you'll kill your flash ROM in a snap ! ;)

It's not just a matter of speed...

The flash ROM will then hopefully only be used as a direct buffer for extracting CABs, downloading files, and so on, which doesn't happen often.

But system temporary files ought to be cached in RAM, our they'll kill your phone ! :p
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] rickyjune:
My HD2 currently displays : CLEANEX ROM

Total storage : 248.34 MB

Used storage : 142.13 MB

Free storage : 106.20 MB

Total programs : 449.92 MB

Used programs : 211.98 MB

Free programs : 237.94 MB

Just about to flash this ROM when I saw this

Free storage : 8,10 MB

why so little:confused:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] lingomaxx:
E-Mail over Web

Hi all,

sorry for my bed English.

First: The ROM is very nice, fast and stable :). The best from all ROM's.

Second: But i have a little problem. When i try to configure a E-Mail Account, Outlook, but the field Domain was grayed out and i can't write the needed info in this field. So that the connection does not work for web mail. :(

Has someone a good idea for me?

Many thanks and best regards,

Maxx
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pranavd1980:
Configure it through Mobile Device Center....Its Easy
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] lingomaxx:
E-Mail over Web

does not work over Mobile Device Center. The domain field was also grayed out.

I wont configure it over Exchange but only over Exchange OWA.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] maxsalsa:
In my HD2 in signature

this is what I see:

Total storage : 203.26 MB

Used storage : 82.15 MB

Free storage : 121.11 MB

Total programs : 453.24 MB

Used programs : 171.64 MB

Free programs : 281.60 MB

Greetings
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
It's not THIS ROM : it's an older one and a french version, look at my signature.

I had to fix a lot of things, by replacing exiting files and programs. Due to the way memory is managed (what we're dicussing with Cajunflavoredbob ;)) it then uses twice the original room.

Plus I'm using 3 additional tabs, plus HTC Messaging, AE Button Plus and a bunch of other resident programs running in the background (the latest being USB host drivers).

It absolutely does not mean you'll have so few memory left using the latest energy ROM.

I posted those values only to discuss about the "free programs" and "total storage" memory values, and nothing else.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Z80-Man:
Hi !

Latest, lighter versions for the NRG ROM mods and tweaks, for the lastest Energy ROMs including the latest fixes, and without WorldCard Mobile !

Features :

- Sense transparency

- 4x4 favorite contacts

- 3x3 favorite Internet tab links with full screen scrolling !

- File Explorer extensions

- Fast rotation on most existing apps + Sense + WM, Office, file explorers, and so on...

- Battery saving tweaks based on polling intervals

- Automatic data connection disabled on roaming, even if weather or stocks automatic updates are on

- Additional WM Settings applets to switch lockscreens, bubble tiles / text buttons, and a Restart Sense applet including ManilaFull.xml reset

- Plus many, many more slight tweaks.

The WWE CAB included a modified Home LUA script that interfered with CHT, so don't use it anymore (my signature has been updated).

It was downloaded 788 times, don't hesitate to upgrade to this one to match your new Energy ROM ! ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] :
AND I never saw the view options in File Explorer. Icons and the option to show file extensions are welcome. I rarely rotate the screen because I found myself tapping the unit to get rotation. This does not seem to be necessary.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] cajunflavoredbob:
The program/erase cycle count applies to block zero, not the entire ROM area. That's another reason people tend to give years, instead of cycle counts since it is kind of a confusing topic.