yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Apps and Games] anzoshi:
Now, i may be wrong here, but looking at their source code to integrate into applications, there seem to be 2 things: 1) the device has to have a data connection, otherwise the code doesnt know whether the device is blacklisted or not, at which point it defaults to assuming it isnt, which overall is a good thing for users who have paid but for whatever reason dont have network at that time, however it is easy enough to stop an application from accessing the network, or even a specific site (ie the site for your imei number on their page).

secondly, is this meant to run on the first run of an app, or every run? if it is every run then i can see people getting annoyed by the unnecessary data usage, whereas if it is only on the first run then someone still has access to all their pirated apps from before they were on the database.

please note the only coding i have done is some fairly simple C, so i could be wrong, but anyone can check this if they want: http://www.artfulbits.com/Articles/Samples/Piracy/Integration.aspx
[G1 Apps and Games] lbcoder:
I think that by now most people know that I don't honeycoat things, so I'll just say it... this idea is RETARDED.

1) The application needs to use the API to get the IMEI. If you start using the IMEI to blacklist phones, a minor modification to the API causes the application to always read a string of 0's. Defeated.

2) The application needs PERMISSION to read the IMEI (android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE). If you start requiring programs to have this permission, people will simply DENY it this permission (yes, it IS possible to block a permission)... this is ESPECIALLY the case when the application has *no good reason* to read the phone state.

3) As has been mentioned before in this thread, HOW DO YOU KNOW that an application you are downloading is pirated? Many applications are FREE to download, and virtually NONE of the pirated apps are labeled as "THIS IS PIRATED".

4) Connection to the internet can be EASILY blocked. Lots of ways... firewall, hosts, permissions, etc. Again, defeated.

Oh, and to those saying crap like access to paid market won't stop piracy, NOBODY SAID IT WOULD!!! It *WILL* reduce it though, since there ARE people out there who WOULD buy apps *IF THEY COULD*.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
Read the description again more carefully. This does not impact a user's ability to access the Market, as it is not a Google product. In case your comprehension is lacking, i'll explain it very simply:

1. A developer decides to use the Artfulbits Anti Piracy Database (shortened AAPD) with its app.

2. A user downloads this AAPD-enabled app from the market.

3. When said app is run, it sends the IMEI of the device to the Artfulbits server. The server returns a color code corresponding to the number of times that IMEI has been reported by other AAPD-enabled apps for piracy. The app can then do whatever it wants with that information. This can be anything from deleting itself to crippling its own functionality.

4. App can also detect if has been pirated (by checking to see if the app has an entry in the user's personal Market account or some other method). If the app detects it is pirated, it will send a report to AAPD.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
Another point Artfulbits failed to consider is that not all Android devices will have IMEIs to report. ;)
[G1 Apps and Games] Hellek:
Is piracy really that much of a problem? I mean most apps cost <3€ and I don't think I am the only one who values his time higher than saving 3€. I rather pay once and get updates via Market than check warez-sites for updates, and I think that most think that way?

There are just two apps that I ever considered to pirate. One was a dictionary for 20$ but I ended up buying it. The other is CoPilot which I would never buy since I don't own a car, but since it is not cracked anyway, I was not forced to really think about it.

I don't see anything good coming from that database. I.e. if my phone would be entered by mistake, you can imagine what problems that would cause for devs whose apps I bought, which I assume would suddenly stop working then.

You really need to think about whether the negative side-effects of such measures like this database are worth the (presumably very small) benefit.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
Last I checked this is how SlideME-powered apps authenticate. (Not that i'm saying that system is a paragon of smart design by any measure ;))

Take a chill pill.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
Anecdotal evidence from a developer put their iPhone app piracy rate at 95%. Given that on Android you don't even need to root to install a pirated app (basically once an app has been "dumped" out of app-private, it's completely open season) I can only imagine that the situation is even worse on Android.
[G1 Apps and Games] sxfx:
Good attempt, retarded Idea.

But then again what do I know.

That is all ;)
[G1 Apps and Games] jairomeo:
I like the idea of having something to trace piracy, I don't really like this idea. I know some of my apps have been pirated, but I have no interest in using this. I don't care for including something to track someone's IMEI numbers.
[G1 Apps and Games] psychoace:
The whole game for the pirater is to crack any protection scheme included with an app. Once they know it's there they are just going to circumvent it and pirating will still exist. Time and money is better spent elsewhere. This is just part of the game any developer should know before he begins working on an app. If it's not worth it then stop giving them things to pirate. Don't make apps.
[G1 Apps and Games] Takenover83:
So apps are going to start calling Home huh? Fun, fun... Not. You better be asking permission before you submit anyone's info to a database, or there will be some class action funness for the devs to enjoy.
[G1 Apps and Games] cloverdale:
The particular app of mention here, SUFBS, requires root permission. Why not upload some versions to pirate sites that does something malicious, such as deleting necessary files, or finding a way to maybe brick the phone (don't know if this is possible). Lastly, if you feel the need to tell me I am an a**, hold your type, as I already know.
[G1 Apps and Games] sstang2006:
nothing can stop piracy people, just get over it.
[G1 Apps and Games] alex.kucherenko:
Not punishing, first of all warning and warning does not help then punishing. But of course it must reach some kind of limit before it will cost to find someone and punish. :)
[G1 Apps and Games] alex.kucherenko:
Activation means only one time check. But it of course depends on developer requirements.
[G1 Apps and Games] alex.kucherenko:
take a goog look into API. DeviceID in most cases is a IMEI, in cases where it's not we AAPD will store device hardware identification code... results are the same, but person identification is harder.
[G1 Apps and Games] alex.kucherenko:
take a goog look into API. DeviceID in most cases is a IMEI, in cases where it's not AAPD will store device hardware identification code... results are the same, but person identification is harder.
[G1 Apps and Games] alex.kucherenko:
Quite interesting to read again and again that people suddenly and accidently install software on own phones... Do you trust in what you say?!

Always exist legal way of trying any software. Piracy simply makes that efforts easier.

Hackers that can break the copy protection do good job - they show the problem to others. But in some cases it can break some one life :D you expecting good sales but instead got only zero.

Good hackers knows that it's no need in breaking the application in first week after it publishing... They are giving some time for ROI... it's part of the game. But this rule knows only good hackers :)

bad hackers - pirates should be punished :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
The goal is not to completely eliminate piracy, the goal is to make casual piracy difficult.
[G1 Apps and Games] blackgin:
There is a cleaner way. Developers: build your own anti-piracy code..
[G1 Apps and Games] lbcoder:
That would be illegal.

And also wouldnt get very far since it requires permissions to do malicious things in order to actually do it, and a user who is at least a half-wit will be able to see when the permissions don't add up.
[G1 Apps and Games] ew33zy247:
Anti-Piracy

I have the biggest respect for developers and the apps and roms! The only thing is people get mad when their app gets dl'd through illegal outlets and the problem with that is thatrs like the pot calling the kettle black! The reason i say this is you know good and well you have dl'd something illegal movies games and what not. its a giant cat and mouse game just look at windows it has been done for years. no matter how much they think they fixed it, it still gets pirated. all you can do is hope you have some upstanding people out there. So just create you apps and just let the piracy be and hope that the good in people come out.
[G1 Apps and Games] Vermithrax:
I agree with this... Developing and implementing an "in-house" private protection scheme would be more difficult

to reverse engineer... Seeing as how the AAPD method will require the same amount of effort to alter and maintain

once it has been compromised...

I have known plenty of hackers/crackers/phreakers over the years, and for most of them it is about the challenge...

which you are now providing... If/when this scheme is cracked, would that not mean that all apps that use this

scheme be vulnerable until you find out how they did it and react? Then all of the apps would need to be updated and

released correct? This is a vicious cycle that could potentially chew up a lot of an app developers time...

I am not siding with anyone here... This is a battle that has been going on for a long time... I remember a guy selling

pirated copies of software on 5 1/4 floppy disks out of his car... Finding private BBS numbers... Hell, even today

something as "locked down" as the iPhone is not safe from piracy...

I wish you luck, and hope that this helps you get more of the money you deserve for the time you put into your apps...
[G1 Apps and Games] coolbho3000:
As a developer with one paid application on the market, I can say this is a terrible idea. ;) It's too hard to differentiate pirates from legitimate customers. I was thinking of a simple copy protection scheme that simply read app-private for the app, and if the app didn't exist there, decide that it was a pirated copy and don't allow it to run - but what about users who legitimately back up their own apps? Are they to be banned as soon as they re-install their app?

Is the IMEI even hashed before sending to the server (if not, it should be)?

Look, piracy is inevitable on any platform. Don't look at pirates as criminals, look at them as potential customers who happened to grab your app for free - if you ban a pirate from running apps at all, then how can they pay you money at all? They'll just perpetually run cracked versions of your app and never buy a "protected" app again (which is bad). And yes, it's possible to crack any app with baksmali, just like it's possible to crack any app on any platform.

Also, a freely downloaded copy does NOT equal a lost sale. I'm almost certain I've actually gotten more sales from SetCPU by posting it on XDA for free and asking for donations from those who found it here. Many "pirates" of my application are from countries where paid Android applications are not available yet, and I don't have much of a problem if they download the app. Yes, there are jerks who upload applications to Rapidshare and spread the link around just to avoid paying 99 cents (or god forbid, registering for XDA). Yes, they're jerks, and they're likely breaking the law. No, I'm not willing to check a database and stop my app from running on their phones.

Piracy is the inevitable result of having root on our phones, and the inevitable result of an open platform like Android. Google might be able to build stronger DRM than the laughable app-private protection scheme in the future, but that will probably be cracked too. If you don't like this, then don't develop applications for Android.

Now the people who buy an app, back it up, return it, then re-install it are another story. But I think Google should just get rid of the 24 hour grace period from app purchases, or make it optional for developers. Returns would be on for something like SetCPU, as users need to check compatibility, but for an app for which a Lite version exists (many games) there should be no excuse for returning the app at all.
[G1 Apps and Games] Diceman4:
I agree with this post. I reflash pretty often and use a shell script to reinstall all of my apps, paid and not. I have paid for several apps (SUFBS included). Am I going to be blacklisted simply because I back up and reinstall apps that I purchased? Seems like hitting a nail with a jackhammer and really alienating a lot of legitimate customers...
[G1 Apps and Games] Burag:
Ehhh... Where did go my privacy? I want it back...

Btw, guys, app can be installed in app-private by adb... So you can't prove this way that app is pirated...
[G1 Apps and Games] xavier6303:
I gotta say I agree here. I think if you make an app, its better to have it as a free/donate app for a few reasons.

1. If someone donates to the dev for said app, the dev keeps 100% of the donation. If they pay for the app on the market, the dev gets like 60-70%?

2. For me atleast, I am much more likely to donate for a good app then pay for the app.

3. The dev gets alot more exposure to customers (because the app is free) thus increasing the chances of landing a donating customer.

Just my thoughts...for what its worth
[G1 Apps and Games] NguyenHuu:
i also have this question. being part of XDA, i bet every one of us have root and have been backing up and restoring and flashing on a constant basis. does this make us blacklisted IF said apps contains the code? that is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
AAPD goes a step beyond just providing anti-piracy for the app being installed, it would essentially actively punish a banned IMEI even if the user purchased the AAPD-using app legitimately. Hence the term blacklist...

There are a number of ways to provide more serious app security without needing a centralized server. Unfortunately most all of them can be short circuited by having root access.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
This is, sadly, the most insightful and truthful statement in this entire thread so far. The Android platform really puts the onus of copyright protection on the developer. Some copyright protection methods that actually COULD help in this case are inappropriately bulky for small phone apps (using registration keys or logins)

The main problem is that there is no user identification in each individual downloaded copy of an app from Android Market. What Google needs to implement is some kind of system wherein when you buy an app, the Market backend embeds a hashed comprised of the package name and your IMEI (ofc Google already knows your IMEI) in the .apk and then signs the hash with a Market private key. When starting up the app, dalvik detects a flag in the standard app signature which indicates that the app is protected and verifies the hash is untampered by checking the signature against the Market public key. If the hash is missing or if the hash doesn't match the calculated value for the IMEI+package name, then dalvik terminates. That's just a very basic description of a way to more seriously lock down a Market download to an IMEI. And since the hashing and signing is done on Market backend server, if the user changes device, when they redownload the app Market will generate a new hash and sig.
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
It only submits if you stole the app and well if you want to pull a lawsuit for being busted STEALING i can see that holding up in court so well. Also the IMEI is not your number nor is it confidential information.
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
It would not be illegal. If you app happens to require information on the phone to run properly and you do not have the required information and your phone "stops working correctly" no one is at fault.. you should have installed the application the proper way from the market.
[G1 Apps and Games] NguyenHuu:
i think he was referring to the previous poster that said, "why not release a version that purposely include malicious code to mess up the user's phone." that seems illegal to me, kind of like spreading a virus to intentionally mess up someone's device. that is much different from having an app that requires certain information to run properly and without the information it will not run.
[G1 Apps and Games] Takenover83:
Incorrect. It pulls your info and runs in across a database. So your info is being used and sent, regardless if you pirated or not. Otherwise, there would be no way to tell the difference.
[G1 Apps and Games] keggers:
This forum is just full of pots calling the kettle black isn't it... On one hand we have people running running roms that are distributed all over this forum with closed source apps from third party developers claiming we need to stop piracy, on the other hand there's all these people who 'accidentally' download paid apps.

Plain and simple if you disagree so much with piracy and support an app like this than I hope HTC/TMobile/Motorola put this same type of code in their closed source apps/builds like hero pulse or blur, so that when people put them on a phone that's not registered to have those apps on them it cripples the phone and notifies the carrier to void the warranty on your phone cause it was rooted.

There's no grey on an issue like this, so think about that when you post that you support this yet are running a rooted phone with another companies closed source apps on it.

Personally for me I agree that there could be way better efforts made by google to avoid this, but on the other hand so could the developers of apps. The idea mentioned in the head of this thread is not a good idea. Piracy happens on every platform,
[G1 Apps and Games] :
+1 Well said sir. Every Window Mobile ROM on here is pirated.

I'm not going to lie I enjoy 'extended trials' from time to time, but I always end up buying because Android apps are dirt cheap, I get updates quicker and I want to support the developer. But I will never buy anything that calls home. On that note, I think we need to make a list of Apps that use this and

blacklist them.
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
The information it pulls is not considered confidential information so there is not much you can do about it legally. It is not personal information nor is it information that isnt pulled by half of the browsers and apps out for any device.
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
As a dev, Without requiring root access, or having the Phone require an internet connection there really isnt that much we can do to avoid piracy. I know this code requires connectivity, but just saying due to the restrictions on the phone there isnt much that can be done. To administer a close to fail proof method every app would require root access or require an internet connection with every use to check a database that the user registers on to ensure the app is being used by someone that purchased it. Which on the end users side means they will always need to be in an area with connection. And on the devs side they will need to build a server/db to handle all of this. you cannot store information in device tables because someone will always hack them
[G1 Apps and Games] lotherius:
Hate to say it, but if it has been pirated 3x as much as purchased that means 2 things:

1. A lot of people are buying your app. Usually, GOOD apps are pirated much more than that in my experience.

2. A lot of people don't think your app is worth buying. If the pirated version didn't work/wasn't available, I can almost guarantee you would see paid app sales drop unless your app provides something NOT available elsewhere for cheaper/free. It doesn't.

Not promoting piracy, just saying....

Now for a more serious issue:

Determining piracy of apps is not so simple as you've claimed.

1. First of all, such an app needs to respect any applicable privacy policies on the Android Market (of which I'm not familiar I admit)

2. IMEI's change! Customers upgrade devices, they perform warranty exchanges, they swap with husband/wife, etc. Currently purchasing is based on your GOOGLE LOGIN, NOT ON YOUR IMEI. That means as far as Google (and the Terms) is concerned, it is the LOGIN that purchased the app, not the IMEI!. So if you tie the app to the IMEI, you'll be branding people who switch devices frequently (and they exist, I work at t-mobile and have seen people who have had more than 10 G1's exchanged) as pirates.

3. Finally, as others have said, what exactly would the developer do with this info? I'm pretty sure that if you cripple the app a user legitimately purchased on the Android Market based on his pirating habits ELSEWHERE, Google would have some serious things to say to you as you are not providing the service that the user paid for. How exactly would you do this - you can't keep a single user from buying your app, and if they've bought the app already, then they aren't running it pirated. You could cripple the app on devices which haven't purchased it - but then what good is having a database? Why not just disable the app for anyone who hasn't purchased it and be done with it? This whole IMEI/user tracking thing leads nowhere good, and is liable to get developers banned from the market (yes Google will do that) and will cause a lot of ill will at the very least with users who legitimately purchased your apps.
[G1 Apps and Games] mrnv45:
once you make this .........a better hacker/code writter will make an app to bypass all this and enable you to continue to pirate..

started with a rock now its rubber...

what im tryin to say is.. you will spend all this time hypin up this app and the next bill gates..brainiack will be haccin your codes and gettin into it.. and disabling it with an app of its own.. its a OPEN DEVELOPING project in android..and thats how it will stay..

how long have cds been out and they aint found a way to prevent ripping and burning..

just take a lose.. if u depend on makin a livin off apps u need a reality check.. and thats not being 1 sided its the truth.. i do music...

people have used beats ive mde.. promote songs ive wrote on there mixtapes and make money on it..can i stop em.. hardly..but all it will do is make many others wanna do it to..since its known to be done..

point is. make your apps..sale what you can there over 6 billion people in the u.s alone.. i dont think 6 billion people are smart enough to work a cash register.. let alone learn that you can root a g1..or even find apps online..

u win some and u loose some.. just part of being in the game.. u may not like it but its the truth there will always be the next guy to do what u did.. so stop makin stupid pointless apps $19.99 and keep it .99 .. also google hasnt made it able to use your phone bill to purchase apps...not everyone has a debit/credit card to purchase apps so you know what..they gon find a way to get it.. i promise.. so its a circle ...just create more apps and get a bigger fan base.. point blank..

oh yuh you can create a bogus gmail account.. replace a phone from tmobile .. and just pirate that app again ..

oh and grabbin 2.0 codes..nav codes..droid codes from verizon..which i assume ALL OF US are running...isnt piracy?
[G1 Apps and Games] osokrayzay:
If I like it, I will buy the music and watch the movie in theaters or purchase the dvd. If I use your app and I like it, I will buy it. If not then uninstall with the quickness

You can't stop the pirates, just ask Microsoft
[G1 Apps and Games] nmesisca:
agree with the above... tho I m having a laugh at the 6billion in the US only thing.. :D

more like 600million :)
[G1 Apps and Games] lbcoder:
The suggestion was to BRICK THE PHONE.

And yes, it IS illegal to send confidential information without permission or intentionally do things contrary to the product description. It is ESPECIALLY illegal to WILFULLY DAMAGE SOMEONE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY.