yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Apps and Games] lbcoder:
Confidential information is ANY information that the OWNER of that information deems to be confidential. And that INCLUDES the IMEI.
[G1 Apps and Games] lbcoder:
Use of closed source apps is NOT an indication of piracy. MANY (most) people who use these closed source apps *ARE LICENSED* to do so. I.e., ANY google experience device IS LICENSED to run the google closed source apps.

And who are all these people?

HOW EXACTLY do YOU tell if an app you are looking at is pirated? Especially if it comes with no notice of license or if it comes MODIFIED to say it is freeware? The answer is that you *CAN'T*, and neither can you be held liable for it under such circumstances -- only the DISTRIBUTOR can. The best that the copyright holder can do is *inform* you if they find out, at which point you *THEN* (and only then) are obligated to either comply with the license or stop using it.

I don't see what relevance this has.

Well since I have explained it, now you know. If you don't understand, that's your problem.

How is it that you consider it appropriate to place the obligation for copy protection on google? ITS NOT. Copy protection (or lack thereof) is entirely the responsibility of the DEVELOPER, and the developer, in implementing this copy protection *IS OBLIGATED* to comply with certain laws, and these laws include things like INFORMING THE USER if the app will call home, and *EXACTLY* what information will be sent there, and yes, the user *MUST* be granted the option not to allow (in which case the app doesn't function).
[G1 Apps and Games] nervana1:
About your idea, it sounds great and all. But one cannot justify it; how will you handle multiple phones with 1 login to google, I have a G1 and a Dream, both have my user and pass..how will this be taken into consideration. Imei database is not such a great idea. Go back to the drawing board.. Some suggestions, is make it like some nav programs, that require emails instead of imei.

Denied!
[G1 Apps and Games] madprgmr:
You can introduce hindrances to piracy, sure, but bear in mind that you can find cracks for literally any piece of software that has even a shred of popularity.

Piracy is one of those things that has no solution; the best you can do is try to stay ahead in the proverbial arms race (which is quite difficult, as the people defeating anti-piracy measures are typically more nimble than the application developers).
[G1 Apps and Games] cal3thousand:
Being painfully honest

OP:

I **** your SUFBS for a long time before buying it.

It was an application that continued to change and improve itself and the first iterations were not worth the price. (sorry, just being honest) That slide thing at the bottom was the deal breaker, but I kept downloading it in the hopes you would improve it and remove that damn thing.

Lo and behold, I legitimately own SUFBS (for a while now). I know that not everyone follows this code, but I feel it is the only way to get proper trial of apps, especially the ones that are released on a non-beta platform and are clearly still in beta infancy. Your app was a prime example.

Google allowing 1 re install of the app is not cutting it either, some apps change wayyyyy to much to get a good feel for what you are buying in 1 day. In the end, it will come down to the perception of right v. wrong and value v. compensation within the community.
[G1 Apps and Games] bveditz:
No interest in debating the piracy topic, I rather think we should discuss what this app does and such. From a legal aspect, I can see some potential issues. If this app only did the check when a purchase was made, and denied the app... then it seems valid. If the app checked it's on database and determined if the IMEI was a not real purchase and disabled the app, also valid. Where I think we might run into trouble is apps that run this test on this third party site and disable the app after the check is done. Supposing I were to purchase your app, but I were to be flagged by another app. Lets take the worse case and say I actually did pirate the other app, for whatever reason. If I purchased your app, and it would disable itself because a third party site said I was flagged, it would put the app owner liable for restitution. Would the app owner then refund the money?

If then, we say, well... we're not going to check legal purchases... well, that can't be done because the app was already cracked to prevent that.

I also side with the earlier argument that piracy people can potentially put out apps and just start flagging IMEI, which would cause this organization to have to continually monitor for fake submitters. This can be done, just a lot of work. The earlier issue however is where the sticking point will be.

Seems a lot like the 3 strikes RIAA/MPAA law they've been trying to pass where, if the record industry (or anyone for that matter) accuses you 3 times, you will lose your internet access for life, without any legal intervention.

I wonder if theres a better way to do this without putting app owners in their own legal frey?
[G1 Apps and Games] Nask26:
Is this why SUFBS keeps making me reinstall the app? I get this oopsie error saying I didn't get the app from the market and I have to uninstall or reinstall? I bought the app on August 2nd and I just started getting these errors. Anyone else?
[G1 Apps and Games] mrnv45:
hey it was late.. i was hi lol.. you know how that goes....long day of bill payin
[G1 Apps and Games] MarcusMaximus04@gmail.com:
I totally agree with you about the whole posting it here for free and having it on the market for donations. I made a lot more off of Appstosd/Appstosd2 that way than a lot of other devs have made on their purely paid apps.
[G1 Apps and Games] NPS_CA:
Next we'll have DEV's that lock down the apps to a SPECIFIC IMEI.

I had this in the Symbian/Nokia days - this meant each time I upgraded hardware I had to pay for the app again (not trusting dev's when I asked them to register my new IMEI). Suffice to say I did this twice then stopped supporting those dev's...

I've NOT pirated a single Android application - I can however see the need for those to do so if the d*#! market can't support them. Google really needs to find a legit way to top up Checkout accounts with funds via bank transfer or such. Ebay can do this anywhere in the world...

Whatever the case; The hard core pirates won't ever stop - no matter what hurdles you throw at them. For 99 cents to about 4 USD most AVERAGE users would just pay for the damn app.

Dev's: Do you gather the IP addresses of suspected pirates and then gecode the country based on the IP block... [ e.g. use: http://www.ip2location.com/ ] Would be good to know geolocation of these users and if it's in market supported countries or not.
[G1 Apps and Games] callmeivan:
funning thing

artfulbits makes apps to and to tell u the truth noone cares about ur apps and why would a company from this places want to get data from people

Ukraine

Zelena St. 149, block 6

Lviv, 79035

Ukraine

Tel: +38 (032) 242 07 86

Fax: +38 (032) 299 42 92

(business questions/opportunities only)

Czech Republic

ArtfulBits CZ s.r.o.

Kriby 4715

760 05 Zlin

Czech Republic

sales.cz@artfulbits.com

USA

ArtfulBits USA, Inc.

P.O. Box 1641

Sandy, UT 84091

USA

Tel: +1 801 815 0033

(business questions/opportunities only)

General information: info@artfulbits.com

Job opportunities: jobs@artfulbits.com

Sales department: sales@artfulbits.com

is this data for there use

fisssshy
[G1 Apps and Games] kopykatkiller:
I don't know what protection method is built into SUFBS but every now and then when I open it, it tells me that I have not purchased it from the market and that I need to go there to purchase it. So I have to always go back to the market and uninstall and re-install it which gets to be quite annoying.
[G1 Apps and Games] spacezorro:
Better mousetrap

I use aspotcat + droidwall now for apps that i feel don't need the internet.

Someone will build a editor for /data/system/packages.xml to "manage" permissions one day... then what?

It all turns into an arms race :(
[G1 Apps and Games] overground:
Sorry if this has been covered already, I didn't read through the whole thread. I had the anti-piracy pop up one day while opening SUFBS. So, naturally, I tried to open it again. I was then forced to uninstall/reinstall from the market. I don't know if you get notifications every time this happens, but in my case, I legitimately bought the app. Not a big deal for me to reinstall, just letting you know that if it sends a notification at the warning screen stage, you may be getting a lot of false positives (or negatives).
[G1 Apps and Games] MontAlbert:
yeah i just got this tonight- i have a G1 and a magic but only have a sim card in my magic. So when testing themes etc on my G1 (not in everyday use so if i break it no biggie :D ) and i wan to use SUFBS it tells me i have not purchased this app properly- but i have- i am sure i downloaded it from the market originally (I bought it VERY early on to support its development) and updated it recently just by dragging it off the magic onto the G1....

it kind of annoys me this popup so i now cannot use it without removing the sim form my magic and reinstalling the app.... i agree with someone up above- i like to try apps for a few days first- i do not have a single pirated app on my phone as i believe if we dont pay for them then dev's wont develop......

my 2c anyway... sorry you feel you had to do this withyour app (i was probably one of the stats that said i had pirated the app so methinks the figures may be a bit askew....
[G1 Apps and Games] Ryanmo5:
You are the dictionaries definition of contradiction. You put out a product that gives users the ability to "pirate" apps and games. Your file manager makes it even easier for any root user to steal stuff then refund/rip it. Granted if you didn't find a way someone else would have but give me a break. Practice what you preach. If you are going to take this approach then I challenge you to remove your product from the market. Your product makes ripping apps and games an easy thing to do, so by releasing this product you are helping piracy grow. I am against people keeping stuff without buying it, but if you are going to start a thread like this then lead by example.
[G1 Apps and Games] overground:
That being said, I don't think I've ever used SUFBS to back up a protected app. If I'm going to do that, it's always because of rom switching problems or precautionary measures. Anyone with root has this ability to begin with. I see your point, though. A newb who just finished struggling to root their phone is going to be much more comfortable with copy/paste in a gui than pecking foreign commands in a cli. And really, that's all Pentace has provided, an in-device root gui. There's others out there I've purchased also, but SUFBS is hands down the best.

Like MontAlbert, I pay for all the apps which require it, and will donate for the great ones which are offered free. These devs often go through much tedious work to create a worthwhile app, so I'm happy to pay. Unfortunately, not everyone is that way, hence this thread. Again, if this copy protection notifies you every time a user gets that warning screen, your piracy statistics are most likely way off.
[G1 Apps and Games] fabsn:
Guys sry i havent read the whole thread but the first ones to get what the idea is about;

you are going to release a public blacklist of IMEIs? WTF?

afaik this is ILLEGAL.

you cant just release private data without permission. especially not imeis which are quite important (you could for example claim that a phones stolen if you have the imei...the police asks for it. you could simply disable the phone.)

thats arbitrary law. you cant fight crime with crime. it's downright stupid.

sending dozens of device's imeis to an unknown 3rd person is madness. do you have ANY idea what "artfulbits" is using the collected data form? i ever heard of data protection laws?

don't play police.
[G1 Apps and Games] keemyb:
Guys Dont even think of making a list, not just with names, usage info etc... But with IMEI's? Yes Im amplifying the guy above me, and I hope a million more do the same, you can just go and start posting up IEMI's for god knows who to see. Just imagine if everybody did that, suspecting pircay (which half of XDA arent liable for, including me) and then giving out you home address for some next people to come and investigate. Leave it to the government, leave it to google. The thing is your software doesnt even work properly, with people having false postives already. Android will grow and the amount of people on your list will rocket. Peoples identitys guys, and you have no right to compile them as you see fit. I hope someone makes a free app that circumvents however you claim you find the 'baddies' and force your app crashing down
[G1 Apps and Games] HipCat:
Precisely.

So.. this is basically a trojan for Android, 'eh?
[G1 Apps and Games] tdusen:
The biggest thing I've learned from this thread is that I won't be installing SUFBS.

On Piracy, I think it's a mistake to equate pirated copies to lost sales. Every software company does this, but I've never seen a study to back up the claim. I contend that anyone willing to pirate would not have bought it in the first place.
[G1 Apps and Games] drpfenderson:
As a developer, I can say that I would never doing anything as disgusting as this to any of my users.

As an Android user, I pay for tons of apps. I can say with certainty that I have purchased over $70 worth of apps from various devs. They deserve the money, but THIS IS STILL WRONG.

In fact, if there was a good list of apps or devs that use this method to track/prevent piracy, I woould gladly remove the apps and never purchase from the developers again.
[G1 Apps and Games] blueheeler:
ARTFULBITS...

What may be legal in your country is probably illegal in another.

I suggest you be extremely careful proceeding with this bunch of crap.

Although I'm not exactly sure what information you collect or what info can be tied to it, you're opening yourself up to an awful lot of financial damages if one single thing goes wrong with the info you collect! Just one person suing you (and they will, I'm sure) ... all the "profits" you have received from sales will be used for legal fees (whether you win the case or not is irrelevant ... you'll still be paying legal fees).

I can tell you that I've never pirated at app, and I won't. But I've gone through 3 different G1 exchanges, and I've reinstalled my paid apps on each of the 3. If that ever turned up as a false-positive and my information was wrongfully shared with ANYONE, you would be receiving a C&D order before the ink could dry. In this day and time of identity theft, trojans, worms, root kits, viruses and God only knows what else, I take my privacy and my possessions very seriously. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I'm not going to ever use any of ARTFULBITS crap for fear of what might be happening in the background without me knowing it. I hope other's do likewise.

And to other devs, I'd stay as clear of this as you possibly can. Some of us will do the right thing and purchase your apps and even donate when applicable. Resorting to this nonsense will ruin you in the Android community. I hope this runs ARTFULBITS straight out of the Android Market and over to the iPhone users where they can make a fortune.
[G1 Apps and Games] blueheeler:
I'm so furious about the possibilites of this, does anyone know how to contact the people responsible for administering the Google Market? I think it's high time to see what Google's response is to this.
[G1 Apps and Games] Wysie:
No offense to the TS, or anyone in this thread, but I think a lot of people actually paid for apps after "pirating" them. It kinda sucks, what you're doing and encouraging. Moreover, like what many on this thread has stated, how much can we trust ArtfulBits?

I've to agree with drpfenderson. I have paid for well over $50USD for apps as well, and some of them after I've pirated it. Some I regretted paying for as well, since they never get updated after that. Life's like that, I guess you just got to deal with it. As developers you got to understand 24h isn't exactly a lot of time to try out a product. You never know if the devs gonna update again. Perhaps instead of dedicating your time to a cause like this (which I feel is useless), you can channel that energy into making your app even better. The people who aren't going to pay will never pay you know? But there are some out there who'd feel you deserve the credit and pay for your app accordingly.

If I paid for an app that later on decides to implement some code that will happily report my IMEI for no reason, I'd uninstall it too. Unhappily of course.

pentace, a while ago I remembered you saying you're making it a paid app to discourage non-root users from downloading it. Why this now? Oh well.
[G1 Apps and Games] bmfc187:
yeah what about people with more than one device? I have 2 G1's, so i can test stuff out on the spare before i go messing up my good everyday phone. So if i want SUFBS on both devices i gotta pay for it twice? WHY?! Why do you think thats fair or right? I think if i pay for an app I own the right to do with it whatever i wish, as long as i dont redistribute them. But your idea will persecute even honest individuals,those with more than one device, who have full right to make a backup copy, and who willfully paid for it the first time to get it legally. I have never pirated any app. I have made plenty of copies, and i transfer those copies between my two devices, but thats my right and i shouldnt be blacklisted for having a duplicate because i dont wanna buy the same app twice. Thats like selling me a toaster that only makes 2 pieces of toast a day and blacklists you if you already had toast. Screw that. i am against thieves and thievery as much as you, but all you are doing is ENCOURAGING piracy, do you have any clue how many people RIGHT NOW are trying to figure out ways around this, JUST IN CASE it does start to get implemented?! And i agree that if i get blacklisted for having an app that was copied from my other phone, somebody's gettin sued!

WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING IS JUST AS MALICIOUS AS PIRACY, IF NOT MORE SO. All you're doing is making waves in a pool that was perfectly calm until you showed up all SPLASHIN ABOUT with these silly ideas.

YOU WANNA STOP PIRACY? STOP ENCOURAGING IT....

-BMFC
[G1 Apps and Games] xtenpeben:
i think that you can't really stop piracy.

music artists have complain that they have lost money because of piracy...

however, there is a band that released their album sometime last year or early this year. they released it online for free and just have a donate link if people want to. People downloaded their album and liked it, and some people even donated 20-50 bucks for an album with just 13+ songs. What i'm trying to say is, let people try ur product and surely they will donate if it is worth it.

i bought apps whether it is pc apps, mobile apps or games, movies on ps3 if they are worth it. i won't pay 35 dollars for a navigation app on the phone when i have google maps... it does the same thing it just doesnt talk (well, not until 2.0 was released on the droid)...

EDIT: also it helps when devs release demo or app trials, i bought robodefense and plox because of that.
[G1 Apps and Games] MontAlbert:
so pentace you are saying the SUFBS collects data from us and sends it off to these people each time we use it?
[G1 Apps and Games] :
I regret buying SUFBS now.
[G1 Apps and Games] bmfc187:
Mod edit: No matter how angry you are, this is not the way to behave. Feel free to reedit this post as long as it's civil. Do not make this into a flame post again and do not put anymore fuel on the fire, consider that a warning.
[G1 Apps and Games] Proxin:
Lol.

So many useless responses to this.

Don't you guys see pentace isn't replying, and probably isn't even reading replies anymore?

If you want your ideas and responses to do something worthwhile, go email the Artfulbits source yourself.

They posted their own contact email on the site. It is:

android@artfulbits.com

Hell, you could even make a thread just like the one pentace made, asking users to support the fight against this.
[G1 Apps and Games] jashsu:
This thread was destined for fail the moment it was created unfortunately. Maybe if it was created on a forum or mailing list where actual app developers frequented...

rofl @ the "pirate and proud of it" posts.
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
For the record. Just because i showed this link doesn't mean my app is using it. It is not. So stop spamming my app with 1 stars saying im stealing everyones information.
[G1 Apps and Games] sstang2006:
You started this thread, you support them so much, you have the code, you are getting others dev to use it and you telling me you are not using it? Lol
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
I am not using it on my rooted apps this is for people that dont want to require root access
[G1 Apps and Games] pentace:
Dude check your Log cat my app doesn't send anything out.. This post has NOTHING to do with my app its a post about an attempt at anti piracy. No where did i ever say my app uses this method.
[G1 Apps and Games] tjhart85:
Since you have the code, and are attempting to have other devs put it into their source code, we would go on the assumption that you use it yourself.

Don't try and say "I never told you..." You just DID tell us that you support this company.

Since you have two apps in the market (one that has <50 downloads and one that has 1000-5000 downloads), we are going on the assumption that you actually put it into your code. Don't go complaining to us that after you TOLD US that you support this company that we shouldn't be giving bad reviews to your app because you don't actually use this code!

Why would you be telling another dev to put this source code into their program if you haven't even tried it in your app yet? I just don't get it.

----------

To Everyone Else:

The permission needed to read your IMEI is: android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE

If the program doesn't have this permission in it (from what I've read), it'll force close.

Neither of the apps by OP request this permission.

So, if in the future you see this request in a program that you don't believe needs it (I'm SURE READ_PHONE_STATE does more than just give the IMEI information), contact the author and ask why that permission is needed. You should also specifically ask if it reads/sends you IMEI information anywhere. If they say no & it later turns out that they do, you would definitely have ground for a lawsuit. I believe it can also be used to get your PHONE NUMBER, which is obviously something else that you would NOT want to be given away at a devs whim.

If they
[G1 Apps and Games] hilaireg:
I've taken the time to read through every post in this thread and quite honestly, I'm concerned about the direction the conversation has taken. I'm closing this thread as I feel sufficient feedback and concerns have been expressed.

As per the first post of this thread, developers who wish more information on implementing such measures can contact a representative of ArtfulBits here:

http://www.artfulbits.com/Contacts

Regards,
[Touch Diamond2, Pure Themes and Apps] wenxi:
Do you all that has applications that can snooze my appointments for 1, 2 ,3 5 minutes like what we had in M$ Outlook? I am on WM 6.5.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure Themes and Apps] arthurwork:
How can I snooze appointments and alarms?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure Themes and Apps] :
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=508735
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Rosco911:
Got atelus htc hero, and wont send text messages... anyone with this problem?
[Touch 3G General] bigmek:
New Opera Mobile 10 beta for Window Mobile

http://www.opera.com/mobile/download/

fast and stable. :)
[Touch 3G General] tropical cactus:
Great. Now how do you make it the default browser? M2DC doesn't work. Any registry edits for PDAViet V26?:confused:
[Touch 3G General] digsf:
Works like a charm on T3232. ;)

Can't wait for the final version!
[Touch 3G General] bigmek:
use M2DC at Default browser

My Device\program files\opera mobile 10\opera10-armv4i.exe