yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
Had a G1 running "vanilla" Android prior to my Hero, and I wouldn't want to go back to the standard interface. Sense UI all the way for me!

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] atoy74:
I dont see a lot of people agreeing with you. SenseUI is fantastic. Can't wait to see what they do with Android 2.0
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Soaa-:
Sense is perhaps redundant in some ways, but also very much valuable in many places. The 7 home screens are way more spacious than the default 3. The unified contacts view allows me to get all I need to know about a contact from one place. The skinned apps are more finger-friendly and provide a more consistent user experience.

Overall, I think Sense adds great value to the Android platform, and sets the Hero apart from other Android phones. That's not to say vanilla Android is bad, but it's what it is: vanilla.

I think of Android as more of a bare minimum enabler as opposed to a full mobile OS. Yes indeed, it can be run as a full mobile OS, but the experience is minimal. However, it lays the framework for vendors to differentiate their products from the competition, while maintaining application cross-compatibility.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] wrsg:
another problem i see in future is the android os fracturing in the same way linux has, ironically.

yes there is a vanilla feel to the standard android theme, but it runs fast and stable, unlike the sense ui which has already crashed at least once (yes, latest updates have been applied), this sort of thing was common with the WM skins that HTC developed.

for me, the main factor is stability not looks, as im not going to be spending my day looking at the screen. if its not stable enough to not go a day without crashing, then theres problems. moving to htc android from htc wm, i was hoping there would be more stability but not yet.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] dvice19:
I kinda like good old vanilla, but sense does look really nice. Things I really like about sense is: contacts, browser, camera, album and calendar. These features are hard to let go of. The special widgets are not a real big deal.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
This is always going to be an issue given that Android uses a non-copyleft open source licence. It is simultaneously both a good and bad thing!

Not discounting your experience at all, but I came from a G1 running vanilla Android, and I've found that Hero/Sense is at least as stable as that.

If you have problems with your Hero crashing daily, you definitely have problems. I seldom feel the need to reboot my Hero. Then again, whilst I use a Modaco ROM, I don't use Apps2SD, Swapper, or regularly kill tasks, and many of the problems I see on this site are likely related to those.

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] jpalo:
Sense UI only means every nice thing Google does for Android has to go through HTC, which takes time. Also after 2.0 Android we will not get anything new to Hero from HTC, I can guarantee that. You will have to buy "Hero II".
[Hero, G2 Touch General] joemax:
Sense is a way for HTC to stamp their own branding on the phone. Its a differentiator amongst the coming wave of Android devices.

People have done this for years with WiMo and Symbian.

Its called marketing ;)

I think HTC have done an amazing job with their GUI, as said above, it adds polish to an excellent OS.

Nothing worse IMHO than having a new handset that may look different hardware wise but just like everything else when you look at the screen. Which you do whenever you use it ;)
[Hero, G2 Touch General] wrsg:
i have never understood why people are so concerned about the looks more than the functionality/stability. but then i've never understood much about human behaviour :rolleyes:
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
Well, in my opinion, it's more functional and at least as stable. So, I don't see your problem! ;)

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Shahpur.Azizpour:
definetly: NO. Sense UI is the best thing which happened to Android.

Pure Android just doesn't look professional UI wise. HTC was the first company who provided a great skin to android AND made it more functional also (HTC SENSE Contacts app is nearly perfect).

Yes pure Android might be faster, and HTc Touch FLO on Windows Mobile was SLOW. BUT HTC Sense on Android is really fast enough for me. especially after the update. And i can't live without all the great Sense Apps and widgets.

Sorry for my self promotion, but i wrote exactly about this issue on my blog. I'm a longterm Windows Mobile user switching to android, thanks to HTC and HTC Sense. I think HTC Sense brought Android to the next level Usability and UI wise:

http://smartphoneblogging.com/2009/09/a-longterm-windows-mobile-user-switching-to-android-part-4-htc-sense-review/
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Shahpur.Azizpour:
that maybe true. in this case you can always root your phone and get the further updates via xda devs...

still "not getting updates" for 3 years is not enough to let HTC Sense go. It provides just so much better usability. The folks at google can't provide such an experience up to now, and they never will because the whole concept of Android is: take the OS framework, and customize it to your liking, thats when companies like HTC come into play.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Shahpur.Azizpour:
it's not about looks, it's about USABILITY and FUNCTIONALITY, not only one of them. And overall HTC Sense has both.

HTC adds even more to the mix like multitouch and the whole facebook, twitter, flickr integration. Yeah Android 2.0 provides this too now, but HTC will keep adding stuff which is missing in vanilla android.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] wrsg:
i accept the point that this is about marketing, but its not like i would forget that this is a HTC phone if the interface did not remind me 24 hrs a day.

i also resent the fact that the default is to have the Sense UI on. it would be ok if there was a more of a choice. maybe i havent yet learnt how to turn it off properly, im a bit of a android noob , i confess :)
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
Each to their own of course, but to resent Sense being the default UI is probably a bit harsh when Sense is one of the key features that Hero is marketed with! :p

If you really want to use the default home screen, the easiest method would be to download "Home Switcher" from the Market (yes, I know it can be done manually, but this is easier!).

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] pauliusba:
You can switch to default Android home quite easily. Go to settings, mnage apps, findd touchFLO, reset it's default category. And press home button - you will be able to choose betwen 2 homes and set a default one again.

Hopefuly you will see how much worse the original home is - even sliding through homescreeens feels unpolished and not smooth. I use 1.6 on the Magic too and trust me, HTC is a savior for Android. Would not use Android at all without SenseUI.

Also, there is a myth that SenseUI stuff sit on top on original Android, like TouchFLO sits on top of WinMo. But that is not true. Since Android is open source, HTC just modify and manipulate it. HTC home is separate though, but it is based on Androids home and runs in the same level.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] joemax:
Ditto that :)

I doubt the Hero would be selling in the numbers it is if HTC had shipped with a vanilla Android GUI.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] ByronicHero:
Hey guys, you know I think HTC making new versions of TouchFlo is kind of stupid.

Vanilla Windows Mobile looks fine.

-

Sorry for the smarmy. I also buy devices for the hardware specifications and functionality; however, in this particular case the UI is a very pivotal factor in the device's overall function.

>> i have never understood why people are so concerned about the looks more than the functionality/stability. but then i've never understood much about human behaviour

This isn't a matter of looks. This is a case of having what matters to you at-a-glance. I can turn on my device, move my thumb once, and I'm now looking at my new mail, at what my friend is eating for breakfast/what traffic jam they are in on Twitter, or how my portfolio is doing.

Doing something that shows "concern about the looks" is a physical buying point. It's a sleek formfactor. It's a gold navigation button. It is something that you whip out in a crowd hoping for someone to notice what a nice device you have. It is not a Home screen.

> i also resent the fact that the default is to have the Sense UI on.

You resent a product feature?

> for me, the main factor is stability not looks, as im not going to be spending my day looking at the screen.

SenseUI is stable. If you're just making calls and choose to use the device that way -- then I guess stock Android would be the way to go.

> if its not stable enough to not go a day without crashing, then theres problems.

Yes. With your phone. Or a Third Party application. Because your particular case is not the norm. Do not confuse confirmation bias with facts.

SenseUI > Stock Android; imho; QED.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Tibart:
Sense UI ik ok but it would be a great improvement if i had the choice to turn it off. I like to have the liberty to choice. Vanilla is a good starting point for that if you ask me.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Stafflover:
There are lot's of phones with just vanilla and no htc sense. Why even bother to buy a hero then?

Sence is what makes the hero, without it it would just be another android phone.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Shahpur.Azizpour:
exactly. thats what i also wrote, if you don't like HTC Sense, get a different device.

But the problem here is, that the devices from other manufacturers like motorola just aren't build as good as HTC devices. HTC has a long track record of producing high quality devices (except for some sliders like the htc kaiser maybe) since the htc magician.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
You had the liberty to choose to buy a non-SenseUI device, but chose not to. You still have the liberty to switch your default home screen to Android standard if you wish, but you'll still have the HTC customized apps.

If you want Vanilla ice cream, buy Vanilla ice cream - don't buy Chocolate and then complain that it's not Vanilla when you eat it! ;)

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] eviltuna:
Sense UI is great, for the people complaining about not wanting sense ui, ummm, don't get the phone? I've used plain Android and Sense UI and Sense UI is light years a head of regular android. No problems with crashes or anything so far, if you don't like it, don't buy the phone, get something that doesn't have sense UI or use another rom.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] chicojd:
I used the G1 and MT3G and liked both of them. I even installed a ported Hero ROM on them so I could experience Sense UI. There are two main reasons I switched over to VZW and Eris. 1.) 3G coverage. There's just no comparison. 2.) Eris is Hero in a slick simplified form that works flawlessly compared to the earlier vanilla Android devices. Sense wins hands down and works VERY WELL on this device. There were multitudes of messages on the Dream forums from folks who want a hero, but couldn't or wouldn't do it because the 3G frequencies were different and it would have been full price ($399 or so) to purchase. I think you'll see more T-Mobilers jumping ship now that Big Red has Eris and the Sense interface. And once it's slicked up for 2.0, it will be just that much better.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] diesel556:
I wouldn't mind the Sense UI at all if it weren't directly delaying the release of CORE Android updates/improvements (as tweeted by HTC).

An updated GUI is not worth adding a 2, 3, 4 or whatever month delay to the Hero's Android 2.0 update, not to mention the fact that it released with Android 1.5 when Android 1.6 had already been available for awhile.

Yeah sacrificing major Android functionality improvements (New Market, Google Nav, etc.) because HTC can't keep up with Sense UI is great. /Sarcasm

To those who say don't buy Chocolate ice cream when you want Vanilla, guess what? Chocolate was the only flavor available to American Sprint customers in October, and is still the only flavour sans hardware keyboard bulk. I think we can all agree that Chocolate ice cream is better than no ice cream at all.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] mike21pr:
this....

lets see what htc has in store for 2.0
[Hero, G2 Touch General] quicksite:
It's a good thing you are not in charge of the sportscar auto design industry, or eyewear design, or women's bikinis.

Design is a very integral part of life.

Unless you are so far out of the mainstream that you choose not to distinguish between cyan and sky blue. :)
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Shahpur.Azizpour:
An updated GUI is worth it, if we are talking about the quality that HTC Sense provides.

Did you notice that android 2.0 also added a few features like facebook sync, which HTC provided for the Hero since day one? Or what about multi touch support? or ms exchange support? all those things have been added by HTC way before we officially got it from android. So there are many cases were HTC actually delivers added value prior to the Android main development line.

Yes i would like to get my 2.0 update for hero as soon as possible too, but i'm willing to wait in order to see what HTC has in store for their updated HTC Sense. I wouldn't want to miss out HTC Sense just to get the updates faster.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] DanPratt:
Sense UI is great

I don't know why anyone would buy a Hero and then want to make it look like the HTC Magic - Go and buy a Magic, if that's what you want.

I came to the Hero from the HTC Touch Daimond, and I would not have used the Diamond without TF3D - it was the best thing on the phone! WinMo is terrible on its own.

I can't wait for android 2.0, but I really want it to have Sense UI, not anything less. And, when it comes to the next update - I'll either use a custom ROM from one of the great devs on here, or I'll buy the "HERO II" - it's not like I have a 10 year mobile phone contract!

;)

The best thing is - we all have a choice - use whatever you like!:D
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
Yes, if you accept your caveats, but they are rather specific don't you think? That's like saying that there's no Ben & Jerry's Vanilla Ice Cream, available in Walmart, and sold in Crystal decanters! ;)

Ok, so the Samsung Moment wasn't available until 1st Nov and has a hardware keyboard, but we are talking just one month after the Sprint Hero, and it is vanilla Android device. The point is that SenseUI has always been marketed as a major USP of the Hero. To buy a Hero and then complain about the inclusion of SenseUI seems a little churlish to me.

We should feel luck though because, as far as I'm aware, Samsung have made no announcement that 2.0 will ever be officially released for the Moment.

There is definitely something weird going on with 2.0 though - the SE Xperia X10 is scheduled to ship until February 2010, and according to all the tech specs it is coming with Android 1.6 which seems really pointless to me.

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] pauliusba:
In my opinion, 1.5+Sense UI > 2.0 Vanilla. I wouldn't have switched from WM to Android if not the Sense UI.

Anyway, Hero is a Sense UI phone and you look up current Sense UI version, not Android's, because Android is a component of Sense UI experience.

If you wanted Android updating policy, OTA updates, Vanilla flavor, you would had bought HTC Magic or any other non-Sense UI phone.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] monkeyberry:
you can turn sense off if you want...

Press MENU button.

Press Settings.

Press Applications.

Press Manage Applications.

Wait for the OS to compute application usage.

Scroll down the list until you see Touchflo and select it to go to the Application Info page.

Press the Clear Defaults button.

Press the HOME button. You will be prompted to select which app to compete the action with. Select Home and chose to make this the default action.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Shahpur.Azizpour:
yes, but you will still end up with the HTC Sense apps like contacts and calendar, so this will only help to get the default android homescreens, but not aöö default apps.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
This thread's gone off topic a bit! The original question was "Is HTC Sense a waste of time". Since the poll is currently nearly 90% in favour of Sense, the answer to that question is clearly no! ;)

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] ritdaw:
I love Sense UI, everything is so much more polished. I'm happy to wait a while for HTC to release 2.0 because google have now added a lot of the same functionality and I wanted it to be integrated nicely, having 2 apps doing the same thing as default would be very annoying!
[Hero, G2 Touch General] diesel556:
Your comparison does't really make sense in my case. The reason I am a Sprint (Walmart I suppose :p) customer is that I pay almost 50% less per month than Verizon/AT&T's cheapest smartphone plans for unlimited calls to any mobile phone in the country, unlimited data, unlimited text's, unlimited calls to any 3 numbers, etc. Not to mention that I have access to the best data network in the country as reported by independent testing: http://www.pcworld.com/article/167391/a_day_in_the_life_of_3g.html

T-Mobile is simply not an option because their data network can't compete currently.

I'm sure your not suggesting that I pay thousands more per contract to use Verizon/At&t or sacrifice usability to go to T-Mobile?

Not only was it released later, it also received sub par reviews, and to be perfectly honest, I would rather have to wait longer for Android 2.0 than have another ungainly phone with a hardware keyboard (no more touch pro, mogul, i730, etc. phones for me, though I might make an exception for something like the droid).

None of the above matters, though your strawmen are appreciated ;).

I have absolutely no complaint with the inclusion of Sense UI. It's not hard to turn off/delete. My complaint was that it is unnecessarily delaying the release of major OS improvements. They did not disclose that delay when I bought it.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
No strawmen are here! ;)

Name one Android phone that shipped prior to Android 2.0, that has an official Android 2.0 port?

I can answer for you - there are none.

Android 2.0 was not even formally "announced" until the 27th Oct, and HTC tweeted that Hero would be getting support the *very* next day, and is still the only Android phone other than the Motorola Droid to be confirmed to be getting 2.0.

So I don't understand your "issue" with the delay.

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] diesel556:
You are completely right.

Android 1.6.

There, fixed. Boy that was easy :p

Also my complaint is based on the fact that HTC themselves said that the 2.0 release would be delayed due to Sense, and I quote, "We ask for your patience as we update Sense for the fancy new Android OS."

If your argument is that severe customizations of the Android OS such as Nexus, Blur, and Sense do not delay the release cycle then I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
HTC never said that Hero would see 1.6 - they said they would skip 1.6 and go straight to 2.0. Given that 1.6 offers very little (far less than Sense offers), again I fail to see you point!

No, you said your complaint was:

They only said the delay was updating Sense for 2.0. Sense has already been updated for 1.6 on the Tattoo. They are just skipping 1.6 (quite rightly) to go straight to 2.0.

So unless your purchased your Hero after reading the tweet:

and prior to reading the second sentence of the same tweet:

, I don't see your point! ;)

Simple facts of the matter are :

1. Hero shipped with a customized version of Cupcake, Android 1.5

2. HTC made absolutely no promises of an update until after 2.0 was "announced" on 27th Oct

3. No devices, other than the Motorola Droid currently have an official Android 2.0 port. Not a one, nada, zip, none!

4. A complete and fully functional Android 2.0 is not currently available, even in AOSP form, outside of the Motorola Droid.

These are absolute, verifiable, facts.

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] fezy:
Dude the sense ui was main reason i got this phone its totally gotta stay
[Hero, G2 Touch General] kylez64:
the wait is definitely worth it

im sure HTC is going to add new features and update sense if 2.0 has some key features like exchange and facebook integration, perhaps they will add something new to compete or maybe im being to optimistic.

If we had plain 2.0 we would get bored with it (at least I would)

The droid is the only phone with 2.0 for now, then the hero will get 2.0

its not like were being left out. Why should they throw it out to meet a certain date and have it filled with bugs?

ill take quality any day :)
[Hero, G2 Touch General] diesel556:
We will just have to agree to disagree.

"If your argument is that severe customizations of the Android OS such as Nexus, Blur, and Sense do not delay the release cycle then I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree. "
[Hero, G2 Touch General] m3t4tr0n:
I am sure someone will release a vanilla 2.0 you can install on your Hero. Personally I will wait for modaco to release based on HTCs own release with updated Sense. Patience, all good things etc ... :)
[Hero, G2 Touch General] foxmeister:
No that isn't my argument. My argument is that SenseUI is an intrinsic part of the Hero experience, and therefore any "reasonable delay" is worth it. If we're 3 months down the line and there are half a dozen Android 2.0 handsets kicking about, and the Hero still hasn't seen its update, that's a different issue! ;)

Regards,

Dave
[Hero, G2 Touch General] appel_:
I voted for Android UI. I don't really mind Sense, but for me it doesn't really add anything. The only thing good in Sense is the Flickr album.

When I bought my HTC Hero I wasn't aware that the "pretty" stuff came with a cost, it had been crippled. For example, I've missed a few features like a week view in the calendar and better integration between messages, contacts and google talk. Sad thing is, these things are in Android but HTC removed them. I'm sure there a lot more neat stuff in Android that HTC has removed.

They could've just replaced the home app, added the widgets as normal android widgets, added a facebook <-> contacts sync app, a facebook app and a flickr/facebook album app. Then they could've had all the "pretty" stuff but not loose any android features in the process. Would'be been cheaper too.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] wrsg:
i also bought the hero not knowing what 'the sense ui' was, i bought it mainly because i had heard it was getting an upgrade to Android 2.0. i realise now this was a stupid move, and i am considering selling it on again because i could get android 2.0 on a g1 and have a smoothly working phone (and a physical keyboard). yes, having sense enabled does affect the smooth running of the phone, despite what everyone says to the contrary.

i know about 3 people who also own a hero, and *none* of them bought it for the sense ui, they had not even heard of it, they were similarly interested in the hardware and the fact that it is the most advanced android phone out.

i might wait around just to see how 2.0 turns out, if its not too messed up i might as well keep it. hopefully they wont take too long with their so-called customisations.
[Hero, G2 Touch General] Soaa-:
Well geez guys, you bought a phone that HTC worked hard on to satisfy a certain market. If what they did doesn't suit you, then you got the wrong phone. I mean, don't you do a bit of research before buying a phone? Did you really buy the Hero without first looking into what you're getting?

I'm saying this not taking into account carrier and network restrictions, but if that's why you had to get the Hero, then it's not HTC's fault, it's the carrier's.