yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] christonabike:
ok, this is with manila off, power saving disabled:

Test OpenGL ES by heliosdev@hotmail.com

Results (480x748 )

--------------------------------

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

143657 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

142647 kPixels/s

color blending

199885 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

169914 kPixels/s

OpengGL ES info

--------------------------------

Vendor

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Renderer

AMD Z430

Version

OpenGL ES-CM 1.1

Extensions

GL_AMD_compressed_3DC_texture

GL_AMD_compressed_ATC_texture

GL_ARB_texture_env_combine

GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3

GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat

GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object

GL_ATI_compressed_texture_atitc

GL_ATI_texture_compression_atitc

GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate

GL_EXT_blend_func_separate

GL_EXT_blend_minmax

GL_EXT_blend_subtract

GL_EXT_stencil_wrap

GL_OES_blend_equation_separate

GL_OES_blend_func_separate

GL_OES_blend_subtract

GL_OES_compressed_ETC1_RGB8_texture

GL_OES_compressed_paletted_texture

GL_OES_draw_texture

GL_OES_extended_matrix_palette

GL_OES_framebuffer_object

GL_OES_matrix_palette

GL_OES_point_size_array

GL_OES_point_sprite

GL_OES_read_format

GL_OES_stencil_wrap

GL_OES_texture_cube_map

GL_OES_texture_env_crossbar

GL_OES_texture_mirrored_repeat
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Shasarak, I agree with you in that HTC have historically been doing a crappy job with regard to supplying proper drivers for the hardware that comes in their devices, that their policy sucks etc.

However, please let's not go into the legal aspects of "fixing" the problem where we can. There's a lot of stuff going on here that's illegal - posting kitchens with MS SYS, porting Manila to QVGA for use with other devices, and, yes, there are projects where files from other devices are used. When IP owners decide they don't want something to happen over here they send takedown notices, cease and desist orders or whatever their stuff is called. I just don't see why we need to dedicate so much time to discussing the legal aspects of the problem. It's all obvious and clear, IMO.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Care to comment what this means in terms of performance (good/bad), for the less 3D-lingo-savvy ones like myself?
[HD2 General] christonabike:
When I say 'manila', I really mean HTC sense. As a Touch HD owner, I'm living in the past and still refer to it as 'manila' :o

I ran the test for about 3-4 minutes, in flight mode (all wireless connections off).

I had no items displayed in the today screen and power saving (screen dimming, power off after 1 minute) was switched off.

I figured it was best to switch sense off as it would skew the results compared to other snapdragon devices without 'sense'.
[HD2 General] clubtech:
My results in the same conditions are much worse than yours and the graphics displayed were not running smooth:

Test OpenGL ES by heliosdev@hotmail.com

Results (480x748 )

--------------------------------

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

124381 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

120633 kPixels/s

color blending

156500 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

125920 kPixels/s

OpengGL ES info

--------------------------------

Vendor

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Renderer

AMD Z430

Version

OpenGL ES-CM 1.1

Which ROM version do you have?
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Hmm, I know what Manila is, my question was about the numbers provided as test results. :) Are they good or bad? :)
[HD2 General] christonabike:
Rom version is 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE. Date 10/26/09

The graphics weren't smooth during my test either but seemed to get slightly better the more cycles were done. The torus test in particular seemed to hang momentarily every second
[HD2 General] rovex:
The only way to really know is try drivers from the TG01 and neotouch and compare. Without that comparison we dont know if the issue is with something else, like slow RAM, or just a bad hardware implementation.

Im thinking HTC dont pay for the drivers simply because in their view its not worth it. If they use slow RAM, drivers arent going to help much, the RAM is a bottleneck.

In video performance the Neotouch is about 15 to 20% faster, thats not a lot for a hardware accelerated bonus.

The results you guys are getting on the HD2 are between 8 and 25x faster than i get on my HD with neo drive pack 3.
[HD2 General] Tubgirl:
Hmm... maybe I should cancel my order for the HD2 and wait and see if this issue is resolved. Flight Commander doesn't seem to be a very graphics intensive game at all and should really be a game that doesn't lag on ANY device... and absolutely not on the HD2!!
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Re Flight Commander, I've never played it but read elsewhere about people having lags with it. The solution was to install .Net CF 3.5 - I have no clue how this could be related but the improvement was confirmed by many users.
[HD2 General] Tubgirl:
Thank you for the info. Can I ask where you read it?
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
On 4pda.ru, it's a Russian forum.
[HD2 General] RacerII:
If anyone want some files from the tg01 rom , just pm me and tell me which files you want.
[HD2 General] popshansen:
I have tested my HD2 with "Test OpenGL" an the result is that when full backlight is runs poorly, but when the backlight turns to dim, it runs smootly.

ROM: 1.43.403.1 (70315)
[HD2 General] clubtech:
I am on 1.43.479.0 (69828). while your performance is better, it should not lag or sutter at all.

The issue is that i am seeing lagging on ALL openGL games (that use drivers) i have tested. yesterday i installed Monopoly World which is also OpenGL with extremely basic graphics and it was not smooth either.

Have you tried to run any OpenGL game (excluding xtrakt and electopia) and they ran fine?

I have .NET 3.5 installed and it lags with or without it.

Thanks! PM sent and we ill check.

Backlight level made no difference on my tests.

Since xtrakt and Electopia both work fine on my device i assume that it is not a hardware / RAM problem becasue these two titles access the GPU directly without going through the HTC drviers. at this point i am thinking it is the drivers.

I was able to replace the drivers on my ROM (1.43.479.0) with the drivers from 1.43.405.1 and it was still lagging.

I will try to get the Toshiba TG01 drivers and test.
[HD2 General] NeoS:
figures...

What a surprise. HTC manages to, once again, screw up its latest flagship with crappy drivers.

Congratulations HTC!

About the HD2 drivers, i'll be honest: There aren't many snapdragon devices out yet, so no real comparison can be made. Secondly, I have no ways of testing/reverse engineering a driver like we did with the MSM chipset, since i obviously have to wait till I can renew my phone plan to get a snapdragon-based device.

All I can do is try to create a driverpack which I THINK could be useful, as I think to know where the problem in this lies. But as stated before, I can't test this myself. So any driverpack created for a Snapdragon Chipset should be considered dangerous[/]! You have to be willing to hard reset your device on a daily basis for testing purposes. :p
[HD2 General] clubtech:
True there are not many Snapdragon devices out there just yet, but i had the TG01 for about a month and all the mentioned games ran perfectly fine on it. no lag at all.

It might be the drivers on the HD2 or it might be something else related to the ROM that is creating a bottleneck somewhere.

My knowledge is limited but i am trying to get the drivers from the TG01 and test on the HD2 to see if it helps. if it does not i guess we can say the problem is not the drivers.

I can test drivers for you if you would like. have no problem hard resetting if needed.
[HD2 General] RacerII:
The tg01 driver runs some test faster then the hd2 driver does.

To early now to say why or if the tg01 driver really is better.

And thanks to Neo for showing interest ;)
[HD2 General] NeoS:
Well, basically, all you're doing is testing OpenGL ES 1.1. The REAL challenge is OpenGL ES 2.0, which isn't really used on mobile devices yet.

I'll see what I can do with a driverpack later tonight. Dinnertime is first. :p
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Does it mean you tried the TG01 driver on your HD2 and it works?
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
It will be very interesting to see how acer driver works with HD2.
[HD2 General] ronin1973:
I can confirm this.

I noticed the exact same; the graphics would stutter.

Then when the screen goes dim (not off) everything runs smoothly.
[HD2 General] RacerII:
Yes it works.

However only benefit ive seen so far is from test software.

Have not tried any games yet.
[HD2 General] DMAND:
It's interesting about the dimed screen running smoother, something else in the background taking up resources??

Does chainfires Gfxboost have any effect on Snapdragon processors? [Be warned that its designed for previous gen CPU's]
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
What about setting a manual brightness instead of autobright?
[HD2 General] br3nt:
No dinner till the problem is solved! :D

enjoy your food :p
[HD2 General] johnk1973:
Funny, on older devices you had to touch the screen to make the graphics run slower! I predict next gen devices running slower when you look at screen! lol
[HD2 General] RacerII:
I and a few other users are trying some stuff out with the tg01 driver.

And interestingly and yet again htc is using windows mobile reference driver AGAIN.

Thanks to christonabike for providing this test info:

htc_d3dm.dll

Driver:

Desc: Microsoft Direct3D Mobile Reference Driver

Id: 0

Name: d3dmref.dll

Vendor: 0

Hardware Rasterization: False

Hardware T&L: False

Using System Memory

d3dm_ati.dll

Driver:

Desc: AMD Yamato D3D Mobile Driver

Id: 1

Name: YAMATO_D3DM

Vendor: 0

Hardware Rasterization: True

Hardware T&L: True

Using Video Memory

Last one is the tg01 driver , as you can see it is using hardware acceleration :D

Edit: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa929265.aspx

"Driver developers can use the output from the reference driver as a basis for comparison when debugging their own driver's output. Because the reference driver is software-based, it is slow and cannot be used to gauge the performance of an application."
[HD2 General] christonabike:
FWIW, I tried electopia yesterday and it seemed smooth. Certainly not as stuttery as the opengl benchmark.

For me also, the opengl bench is smooth when the backlight dims. Weird.
[HD2 General] DMAND:
Surely someone has the a beta ROM where the opengl test ran smoothly with backlight on, so as to compare the difference.

Hopefully theres a way to utlise the TG01 driver
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Maybe they mucked up with the if... else statement processing results from GetSystemPowerState? :D

So they're trying to save power when backlight goes on instead of doing it when it goes off?

I mean, it would be a silly error but hey, that's HTC we're talking about. :D
[HD2 General] RacerII:
If you read 3 posts back you can see that the tg01 driver enables hardware acceleration :D
[HD2 General] DMAND:
That was the TG01 driver on HD2?

vangrieg's power saving idea makes some sort of sense :p
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
I would so like if what you said can be translated to ... ,,let.s use the tg01 drivers, which works wonderfull on hd2, to repair the screw-up,, :D
[HD2 General] christonabike:
Haha, yeah I'm sure they wouldn't make a mistake like that.. would they? :D

With the backlight dimmed, the benchmark is smooth as silk but, comparatively, the numbers go through the floor.

Backlight on (from my test this morning):

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

143657 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

142647 kPixels/s

color blending

199885 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

169914 kPixels/s

Dimmed:

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

101118 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

23872 kPixels/s

color blending

44870 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

23234 kPixels/s

Higher numbers are supposed to be better right?
[HD2 General] DMAND:
Weird, just goes to show that benchmarks alone dont paint the whole picture
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Yeah, but a mistake in graphics drivers wouldn't necessarily mean that the processor, bus, whatever won't be downclocked to save power! So you would get lower results but enabled acceleration (and thus things moving smoothly). :rolleyes:

Cause that's the only thing that changes when backlight dims - the system goes to "User Idle" state, and hardware transitions to a lower power mode according to preset settings and SetPowerRequirement minimum thresholds set by software.

I don't think I have the solution, and I'm obviously joking, but just as obviously there is a bug related to power management here!
[HD2 General] toca79:
Could you post the tg01 driver along with a few installation instruction for noobs? :D

Thanks a lot
[HD2 General] NeoS:
Well, on the blackstone, it's the other way around! When dimmed, the numbers go through the roof!

There's your power management issue. It seems the HD2 finally does it right.

Working on a driverpack for Snapdragon by the way, thanks to RacerII.
[HD2 General] clubtech:
I have tried to replace the following files with the TG01 drivers:

libEGL.dll

libGLES_CM.dll

libGLESv1_CM.dll

libGLESv2.dll

After replacing the files i could not get Sense to load and no game would load BUT one game: Tower Blox which surprisingly worked with NO LAG at all while on the HD2 drivers it was laggy.

After some testing i figured out the problematic driver is probably libGLESv2.dll.

If i kept libEGL.dll libGLES_CM.dll and libGLESv1_CM.dll as the original drivers and had libGLESv2.dll from the TG01, i can load both Tower Blox and monopoly world with NO LAG at all.

Once i replaced libGLESv2.dll with the original one, the lag was back.

Be advised that while keeping libGLESv2.dll from the TG01 i was not able to load any other game but the two mentioned above.

When i replaced libGLESv2.dll with the original HD2 one, i could load all the games but the lag was back on all of them.

d3dm_ati.dll had no effect at all on lag in the games when i used the TG01 one.

I am not expert but it seems to me, that per the above the problamit driver is libGLESv2.dll.

Maybe someone who knows coding can look into this and figure out what is wrong with this driver.
[HD2 General] NeoS:
True, the libgles_v2 seems to "break" Sense. It also breaks hardware acceleration on most programs. BUT! it could be a OpenGL ES 2.0 .dll, so we certainly must look into it.
[HD2 General] RacerII:
Just wait for Neo , will be easier if he has a pack ready ;)
[HD2 General] clubtech:
I am pretty sure this dll is causing the lag in the games.

Replace it with the TG01 DLL and the games that load will work flawlessly. sadly most games wont load at all, and sense wont load as well.
[HD2 General] NeoS:
Yeah, but remember: those are all based on openGL ES 1.0 or 1.1.

OpenGL ES 2.0 SHOULD be backwards compatible with 1.x, but somehow its poorly implemented on the HD2... (i wonder why? :rolleyes:)
[HD2 General] barty22:
Looking forward to some driver packs! :)
[HD2 General] toca79:
K thanks, i'll wait then, hoping there will be news soon!!
[HD2 General] clubtech:
I just send a techincal support request to HTC telling them about the problem.

This is simply unacceptable.

I suggest that anyone else who is expriencing lag with OpenGL games to contact them and do the same.

HTC just can't afford not to fix this as this will totally destory whatever is left from their Windows Mobile client base.
[HD2 General] fards:
here's some newer GL drivers to test, I've also included a d3dm_ati from an early leo test rom. But I don't like that one that much.

**

warning I suggest running SDKcerts and or disabling the security warning first

to disable warnings as I haven't signed them. :p

I'm getting with them (and a couple of other tweaks)

alpha 164905

torus 95745

color 127075

subtexture 91766

stock drivers:

alpha 118625

torus 41445

color 51065

subtexture 26958

not tried too many games yet with these, but everything seems to work.

Without giving too much away here, expect a new rom with these in very soon :whistle
[HD2 General] clubtech:
Thanks for posting those.

I tested them now and it seems that all the OpenGL games are still choppy.

I am testing the following:

NFS Undercover portrait mode

BOOM Blox

Monopoly World

Flight Commander

Tower Defense.

All games are choppy. they are playable but it should not be choppy at all.

They are running 100% smooth on the TG01 so i think HTC has some basic issue with their drivers even those in the early ROMS.

When ii replaced the drivers with the TG01 drivers, i was only able to load Boom Blox and Monopoly World and both were 100% smooth on the HD2 with the TG01 drivers. Sadly i could not load anything else with those drivers.

It just goes to show that it is not a hardware limitation.
[HD2 General] Jay_9090:
+1

I send a complain for HTC France now !

You can send too this banner with your mail, it's my made !
[HD2 General] NeoS:
i LOL'ed.

Anyway, the driverpack doesn't want to be run on a HD right now... I know where the problem lies, i just can't test it, so it'll take a while for a release.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
Damn ... dejavu all over again ... just like when i had my TP1....why HTC? is it that damn hard to do a 100% job well done ?
[HD2 General] fards:
weird, I've just been playing nfSu, it plays fine with those drivers, only time I noticed any stutter was when peep updated.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
As I said earlier, HTC has been shipping phones without adequate drivers for years - why would they change now what has so worked so well for them in the past?

As for HTC tech support, not only have they consistently lied about the issue in the past, they don't even have any way of contacting the people who are responsible for developing the phone software, as far as I'm aware. I've asked HTC tech support a few rather technical questions in the past, and the best they could do was offer me an address in Taiwan and suggest I send a message there - and I don't mean an email address, I mean a postal, snailmail address.

In the interests of diagnosing what's wrong with HTC's drivers, has anyone taking a look at an Acer NeoTouch (a.k.a. Acer F1)? A comparison between that and the TG01 might be instructive, given that they're both Windows Mobile devices on a Snapdragon platform.
[HD2 General] NeoS:
What about a project, huh? ;)

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=584966

Centralize the discussion and conquer. (or was that divide and, err whatever)
[HD2 General] blackpenny15:
Canceled my HD2 order :( was seriously looking fowards to being back with windows mobile but i'll stick with the iphone for the moment until HTC pull their finger out.
[HD2 General] chalid:
do you all have too much spare time on your hands, that you put that great emphasis on gaming performance of a mobile device? srsly, I don't get it ...:o

I do understand that it was a problem with older htc devices, where overall performance and media playback was choppy, but this is *****ing at the highest stage ... :P
[HD2 General] blackpenny15:
Its not that mate, you just want to buy a device that has the full potential you know being used, i think when the new hardware requirements are out for mobile 7 you will see a massive windows mobile game flux, the xna framework will be out for windows mobile and people can code for one platform as apposed to specific libs for different chips.
[HD2 General] p-kirill:
Do they (use slow RAM...)?
[HD2 General] rovex:
No idea, but if its not a driver issue (which we will see eventually either way), then its slow RAM or another hardware bottleneck. We all know that a poor chipset can cripple a PC, so if HTC have used a poor component somewhere it could slow up the whole system.

Since my HD2 is still floating in the postal system somewhere i cant help out.
[HD2 General] clubtech:
It is a driver issue. When i loaded the TG01 drivers there was no lag in the games. they were running smooth.

When we load games that dont use the drivers (xtrakt, electopia) there is no lag, so it is not a RAM or hardwware issue.

Also note that there is no problem with the benchmark results on the device, the problem is that the games are not running fluid...meaning there is a problem with the driver.
[HD2 General] fards:
I wonder if it's something else causing the lag on your device...

I've tried monopoly as well now (both on stock and the newer gl drivers) and it's not lagging here, same with nsfu
[HD2 General] clubtech:
It might be the WWE ROM.

I am sure it is not a hardware problem on my device otherwise the TG01 drivers and games that only use the hardware would also Lag.

I also tested these games after a hard reset, nothing else installed and they lag.

I did notice that your OpenGL benchmarks are much higher then mine...but even with my benchmark it should not lag.

The problem is not the benchmarks...it is the fluidity of the graphics.
[HD2 General] heliosdev:
Correct, in OpenGL ES 2.0 the pipeline is programmable (vertex and fragment shaders) compared to OpenGL ES 1.0/1.1 where it's fixed. 2.0 implements the fixed pipeline using shaders (not 100%, but which parts have to be implemented? :confused: ). OpenGL ES 2.0 info
[HD2 General] fards:
this is what I don't understand..

I'm also on WWE rom, and have tested after HR as well.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
fards, clubtech, an interesting discussion you have there. Maybe you should compare ROM versions/lists of programs installed?
[HD2 General] rovex:
Sounds like faulty drivers rather than just slow ones. The same way a movie can judder or drop frames on a PC even if you have more than enough power.

It seems to me that HTC have made drivers that accelerate Sense and MP4 but dont care about anything else, so while other things work they dont work properly.
[HD2 General] clubtech:
1) I am on WWE 1.43.479.2 which is the east European one. i believe you have the UK WWE ROM?

2) NFS works fine in landscape, but in portrait, if you look at the graphics you will notice lag.

3) Monopoly: there are two verions of the game..Monopoly world which is OpenGL based and another monopoly (cant remember the name) which is not OpenGL based.

On monopoly world, if you look at the fireworks at the beginning of the game i can clearly see they lagging.

4) Boom Blox: you can clearly see on my ROM that the cubes are not moving smoothly.

5) Flight Commander and Tower defense totally lagging.

When i loaded the TG01 drivers and replaced libGLESv2.dll with the one from TG01, Sense UI and some games would not load at all, but the Boom Blox and monopoly games would load and they ran very smoothly.

Also, in the OpenGL test you performed yesterday with me, the graphics should run pretty fluid and they simply don't. they lag like crazy.

I will try to play with the drivers more and see if i can resolve this.

This is so annoying as it should work out of the box.
[HD2 General] Jay_9090:
HTC anwser me :

(Translate French ==> English)

Can you dream for a fix for these small three 250 kbytes library files cause more than problem ?!?
[HD2 General] rovex:
Since the HD2 is benching a LOT higher than other devices that play these games smoothly i tend to think its a rendering fault or timing/sync issue, not a speed issue.

Its interesting that HTCs driver works with sense but little else, Toshiba's works with its interface and games, but not sense, and the Acer driver which has no custom interface as such to power runs games AND sense.
[HD2 General] clubtech:
Were you able to run games on the HD2 using the Acer drivers smoothly? i was not.
[HD2 General] dugald5:
I am on ROM version 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE and Tower Defense is working smoothly on mine. It crashes after about 15 minutes of play though... :(

Edit: only crashes if on battery power - I can play with no problems for an hour whilst charging, and then if I unplug, it crashes two minutes later - have to soft reset! I will try with less brightness.
[HD2 General] smilegod:
No solution?

Any solution? Hope there is one
[HD2 General] VanKurt:
Please guys!

I just ran this little sample: http://www.koushikdutta.com/2008/10/drawing-text-in-opengl-es.html

It just renders ONE SINGLE TRINAGLE and a little text. And runs only at 28 FPS!!! This is so freaking sad :mad: :( :confused:

Like this the HD2 is totally useless to me...