yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
I do vaguely recall reading somewhere that the combination of Qualcomm hardware and Windows Mobile imposes some sort of bandwidth restriction which makes high-resolution video capture impossible. This doesn't have any impact on still picture quality, of course. I think it's more to do with target markets, tbh - Windows Mobile is basically aimed at a mixture of business users and techno geeks rather than normal consumers, and they figure users like that will still buy the phone even if the camera is a piece of crap. Sadly, they seem to be right. :( If absolutely everybody stood up and said "sorry, HTC, but I will never buy another HTC phone again unless it has a decent camera" they'd have no choice but to fit one; sadly, people aren't willing to do that, so they carry on maximising their profit by cutting corners on the camera hardware.

To be fair, as previously mentioned, the thickness of the phone is an issue too; you need a certain minimum distance between the sensor and the lens to get a good image. Making the phone as thin as possible was clearly a major priority with the HD2, as was making the bezel as narrow as possible (hence the lack of front-facing camera). Personally I'd prefer the HD2 if it were thicker - I find it difficult to hold something as thin as that comfortably, and the thinness combined with the narrow bezel makes it too easy to touch the edge of the screen by accident. But I can't deny that it feels much lighter and more comfortable in the pocket than my TP2, despite not being that much lighter.
[HD2 General] maati:
If everybody stood up said "sorry, HTC, but I will never buy another HTC phone again unless it has a decent camera", HTC would either do nothing or start making thicker phones.

It has been said before: You can't put a better camera in a device that thin. The HD2's camera is already the best you can get in a device that's 11m thin. There is no other device that's <12mm thin and has a better camera than the HD2. Not even dumb phones.

Thus, HTC's cameras are ALREADY decent, if you consider the size of the phones.

They could make a thicker phone with a better camera, but they probably won't, because they think that there's no market for that.

And honestly, I wouldn't want a thicker phone. The HD2's thickness and it's camera quality are the perfect compromise, they couldn't make the camera any better without making the phone thicker. There is no better camera technology out there, they're already using the best they can get and other manufacturers use the same. HTC doesn't make the camera modules and they're getting them from the same suppliers as everyone else, thus their cameras are just as good/bad as anyone elses', when you compare phones of the same size (<12mm thick, that is).

Symbian phone makers seem to think different, they make thicker phones with better cameras.

If you want a thin WM/Android phone with a good camera, HD2 has the best camera you can get (together with the i8000).

If that's still not good enough, you have to buy a thicker phone running Symbian or a dumb phone OS.
[HD2 General] 2020vision:
Touch Diamond2 images for comparison

Hi All :)

I have been reading this post everyday since the beginning because I was

thinking of taking the HD2 as an upgrade on O2 but am waiting to see what

happens about this "pink" problem first.

Thought the following two images may be of interest? Both were taken with my

Touch Diamond2 - and I see absolutely no problems at all? Can anyone draw any

conclusions from this by any chance? My Diamond2 pics are generally VERY good.

Both pictures of white paper but one in colour and then the other greyscale.

Settings were auto ISO and auto whitebalance, indoor lighting - 3 megapixel.

Does anyone know if it is the same camera as the HD2 - if so then surely this

would rule out hardware? Just a guess - I am no expert.

All the best - Michael :)
[HD2 General] maati:
This doesn't mean much. Maybe the TD2 camera is from another supplier.
[HD2 General] Xeon:
So touch HD and HD2 cameras are the same but not for the TD2? hmmm
[HD2 General] maati:
That's possible. There's a few camera suppliers and they choose one every time they make a new phone.
[HD2 General] rovex:
Its worse than that, not every HD or HD2 will have the same camera. As with some LCD TVs the panel can come from different suppliers even in the same model (there are actually only a few panel manufacturers).
[HD2 General] pedmond:
It looks like the latest ROM's published on HTCmania solve the problem at least partially. I'll check that tomorrow on daylight and get a better impression.
[HD2 General] maati:
Yep, that's possible, too.
[HD2 General] mooooooa:
Look and this post, and tell me if you have the same problem...

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=5064457&postcount=771
[HD2 General] Fidalgos:
Today I did the updating for the rom 1.48.405.2 and the first thing I made after a hard-reset it took away a photo and since I checked that it did not resolve the problem ... I phoned the HTC Portugal and they told me that even changing of rom only the hotfix that would be available in the site of the HTC it would be going to resolve the situation. I was not satisfied and resolved to contact the Expansys PT to say to them that finally I do the return of the HD2. They said to me doing as soon as possible since they had authorized my devolution since the technicians had noted that the series of my HD2 had problems. They guaranteed me what they had received HD2 of a new series WWE and what had 111 in stock without any problem in the camera and so what they are going to send to me will be in good conditions. I am going to be again alone with the HD and am going to wait around 1 week (4 days of the sending for the Expansys and more 24 hours for the substitution 2 days DHL it having again).

Now even it seems to me that the HD is in fact very slow after this experience of days with the HD2.:)

Sorry I translate from Portuguese to English with IMTranslator Firefox:o
[HD2 General] Xeon:
I seriously doubt new batch will be any different from the 1st one. Think about HTC situation in that case... naahh won't happen.
[HD2 General] Fidalgos:
Now... I must wait to see if is true or not:o My HD2 go to France, eheheh!
[HD2 General] pedmond:
Looks like I do :cool:
[HD2 General] Beards:
I'm not sure you still understand the points I am trying to make...

I'm not in disagreement with you. Obviously I'm not getting my point across so lets try breaking it down step by step:-

I know a Hardware fix is impossible. I'm not asking for a Hardware fix. All I am asking is for HTC to admit it is the Hardware that is causing the problem from the beginning.

As to other manufacturers, I have repeated this many times in this topic that the problem is not just tied to the HD2 or other HTC Phones.

Each manufacturer tackles the problem dependent upon two main factors:-

1. The Hardware inside the Phone.

2. The Software used to control the Hardware.

Correct... It is the design of the Phone that means it has to use a very thin lens system.... However, the Touch HD is only fractionally thicker but it does not exhibit the same problem at the same degree. So in our case either something is not right with the lens assembly/circuitry or the Software is not 'masking the problem enough.

... and no, we are not going to see any new or improved chip.... Well not for this Phone.

I know it can be corrected (no, sorry I don't like the word corrected. It can be masked or camouflaged) even though it may well be a hardware problem. I have been repeating this countless times.

No... it won't remove the problem... It will always be there but you won't see it.

So, to sum up.....

It is the Hardware that by design (be that good or bad for the HD2) which is causing the problem.

No, it will not be fixed by Hardware rectification.

The Software at present is not 'strong' enough to mask/camouflage the problem. :)
[HD2 General] Xeon:
Good to see where share the same opinion.
[HD2 General] mooooooa:
Seriously? So I'm not alone? Muhaha... Damn it! :eek:
[HD2 General] fards:
whether its hardware or software (or sheer conjecture)

the cameraconfig.xml seems a bit strange..

<!-- HTC_CSP_START -->
<!-- ov 8MP sensor
<SensorConfig ClassID="0x0108aecd">
<DefaultTuningData ClassID="0x0108aeca"/>
</SensorConfig>
-->

<!-- samsung 5MP sensor -->
<SensorConfig ClassID="0x0108aed0">
<DefaultTuningData ClassID="0x0108aece"/>
</SensorConfig>
<!-- HTC_CSP_END -->

shouldn't it be like this?

<!-- HTC_CSP_START -->
<!-- ov 8MP sensor -->
<SensorConfig ClassID="0x0108aecd">
<DefaultTuningData ClassID="0x0108aeca"/>
</SensorConfig>

<!-- samsung 5MP sensor -->
<SensorConfig ClassID="0x0108aed0">
<DefaultTuningData ClassID="0x0108aece"/>
</SensorConfig>
<!-- HTC_CSP_END -->

</CameraEngineConfig>

fwiw I have changed it but I don't think it's made much difference :P
[HD2 General] 2020vision:
How come there is no pink in these pics at all?

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=5065147&postcount=789

Perhaps HTC should use the TD2 camera in the HD2?

Any opinions? Thanks - Michael

P.S. I personally have NEVER seen or experienced any extra pink in any image

I have taken with a multitude of phone cameras that I have owned ranging

from Sagem MY-X5 to Sony K700i/k750i, Nokia N82, LG Viewty, Samsung

D500/D600, E250, Soul, TD2, Lobster 700TV, or O2 Orbit?
[HD2 General] deyanp:
So Expansys have officially said you'd better get a new device instead of waiting for the software fix???

I mean if there is an official hardware fix which the main reseller of HTC is stating, then maybe it is better to return the devices and get new ones!
[HD2 General] abogdan:
After I made the Rom update to 1.48.479.1. I re-post here my observations about camera behavior:

- I mention that before rom update I had the pink problem but not so visible.

- now in the low light environment the pink problem appear if it is on auto white balance and auto flash. If I switch on auto white balance and flash then there is no pink. If I set the white balance on the indoor light and auto flash then there is no pink

-for outdoor pictures I can't see pink even on auto white balance.

My first conclusion about camera is that the pink appear mainly for low light pictures with auto white balance on and auto flash. I will keep testing...

Finally I can't say that it's a hardware or software cause....My perception at this moment is that there are quite many differences for the "level of pink" between hd2 devices with same or different roms....and because of that it will be hard to believe that a common hardware problem can generate so many differences ....
[HD2 General] fards:
yes if you turn off auto white balance it tends to go away.. If anything the pics I was taking last night were a bit too green :eek:
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Okay, I have a wild theory. Earlier in this thread we had an interesting link which I will repost:

http://dpanswers.com/tech_defects.html

This is a list of common digital camera image problems. I wonder if the "pink blob" issue on the HD2 is the result of what that article calls the "hot spot" problem? This, the author says "is a result of internal reflections of infrared light produced by the lens' coatings".

If that's what we're seeing here then the visibility of the pink blob may well depend on the conditions under which the picture is taken, because of the relative amounts of infra-red and visible light in what the camera is trying to capture. If there's a lot of IR and not much visible light then the blob will be very visible; if there's a lot of visible light compared to IR, the blob will be less isible. So it will be more visible if you're taking a picture in dim light and warm surroundings, and less visible if you're taking a picture in bright light when it's cold. It may particularly be a problem if there's a source of heat present like an incandescent light bulb or an electric heater.

If this is the case then for photos at this time of year we would expect to see more pink blob on low-light shots taken indoors without the flash, and less blob in outdoor shots taken on cold, clear days. Does this agree with people's observations? If it does, that means the problem in outdoor shots will get worse in Summer. :(

Also worth saying that if this is what's causing the problem then HTC's alleged software fix can't possibly work accuracy unless the camera has a built-in temperature sensor....
[HD2 General] maati:
This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say.
[HD2 General] Beards:
I knew we were both on the same track...... only running at different speeds....
[HD2 General] Funk2641:
The camera issue seems to be a low-light issue with my unit. I took this in pitch-black darkness:

and took this in medium-light:

obviously a big difference, as the second pic has no pink in it.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
If my speculation above about it being an infra-red problem is correct then you might expect the pink blob to be fairly faint when you use the flash, and much more pronounced when you take a picture in fairly dim light without the flash. (Seeing as the flash produces a lot of visible light and not much IR).
[HD2 General] shirreer:
The cat is unutterabley cute, tho, yes? :eek:
[HD2 General] Funk2641:
Another pic shows that there isn't any pink at all. The pink on the left is the color of the blanket Mr. Simba is lying on. This was taken in late afternoon on a cloudy day.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Using the flash, or not?
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Stop trying to get me to agree with you by appealing to my love of cats. That's cheating. ;)
[HD2 General] Funk2641:
With flash. It kinda proves your theory.
[HD2 General] rovex:
You can tell its a flash picture its got way to much cyan in it. Applying a warming filter cleans it up well. Im guessing the true colour, but it looks more natural to me like this..
[HD2 General] shirreer:
:p LOL... my dear dissident friend, I was only trying to show how irrelavent your comments were to the actual subject! it had nothing to do with the cat..lol. :eek:What's funnier is that you and I have nothing to agree or disagree on! LOL... your love for disagreement is just phenomenal! :cool:

Cheers:D
[HD2 General] Som30ne:
Just received my device

After a long (Almost a month) wait,

I just received my device

(bought it (SIM-free) from the official representative of HTC here).

I checked for the pink spot, and it's there.

(Although after playing with it a bit -

If you reduce the saturation by 1 point,

it becomes much less noticable)

I put it to charge, and will post the ROM details in a later post.
[HD2 General] Beards:
Thanks... I've added you to the list temporary for the time being. :)
[HD2 General] DAMIEN123_666:
any word on a fix or how htc is gona fix this issue yet?
[HD2 General] Fidalgos:
Yes @deyanp, Expansys know about the hotfix from HTC but like I say before... the technicians accept HD2 return because have a new stock series without camera problem :o So... I wait if is true when I have a new substitute...

Now... I follow my package to Expansys, Montpellier/France EMS (urgent) but is already in Portugal

----------------

EE211742463PT

EMS Internacional

2009/12/03

18:38

----------------

2009/12/03

18:38

RECEPÇÃO NACIONAL

C. O. MEM MARTINS

2009/12/03

10:19

ACEITAÇÃO

BARCARENA

-----------------

:)
[HD2 General] pedmond:
So does every other colour.
[HD2 General] ThoroSOE:
Maybe you could try changing the whitebalance to a manual one. Auto does seem to produce the distortion but the other modes - at least on my handset - rather don't. Infact scince I took my pictures with manual whitebalance for a while now, it appears to be better on auto as well - and I mean with saturation still sitting at 3.
[HD2 General] Beards:
Shame there is no 'custom WB'. That would at least give greater scope...
[HD2 General] Som30ne:
My device details:

OS:5.2.21864 (21864.5.0.81)

Manila: 2.5.19202525.0

ROM: 1.43.405.1(70124) WWE

(+hebrew pre installed)

ROM Date: 10/26/09

Purchsed from Newpan
[HD2 General] Beards:
Nice... you left everything except the date of purchase. :)
[HD2 General] Jitsu:
Hello all,

The same is happening on my phone also.

I upgraded from 1.43 to 1.48 and nothing changed, the problem is appearing an both versions.

OS Version: 5.2.21869

Manila Version: 2.5.19211619.0

ROM Version 1.48.479.1 (71294) WWE

ROM date 18/11/09

Purchase date: 12/01/09

Hope this gets a SW fix soon..
[HD2 General] Beards:
Just as a matter of interest.... how many shots have you all taken?

Have you noticed any changes?
[HD2 General] Jitsu:
In my case, I've taken at least 20-30 photos.

Half of that was with the 1.43 ROM version.

With 1.48 ROM the pink hue is a bit less noticeable.. or it's just me getting used to it.. don't know..

P.S. On some pictures I can't even see the pinkish hue (when I take a picture of something near a window, and there is a strong light in the background)
[HD2 General] Som30ne:
Hmmm . . .

Sorry, I thought it was clear I just got it yesterday (03-Dec-2009).

To my knowledge it's the first shipment that was received here by newpan.

(If you mean when I ordered it - it was about 06-Nov - on pre-order)

If you mean something else -

please explain :)
[HD2 General] Beards:
No that's great thanks.:)

List Updated

See Post 138 Here.
[HD2 General] Xeon:
Please add me to the list :

OS Version: 5.2.21864.5.0.81

Manila Version: 2.5.19202525.0

ROM Version 1.43.488.1 (70124) WWE

ROM date 10/26/09

Purchase date: 15/11/09

Shop: Emirates Mall
[HD2 General] Mad Jock:
My Info

Please add me to the list also -

OS - 5.2.21864 (21864.5.0.81)

Manila version - 2.5.19202525.0

ROM version - 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE

ROM date - 10/26/09

Bought at mobilePhonesDirect on 29th Nov '09

Cheers......Mad Jock
[HD2 General] Xeon:
And HTC keeps saying, a limited number of devices suffer from the pinkish pictures. Hmmm, wake up HTC...
[HD2 General] wacky.banana:
Has anyone pointed HTC to this thread?

WB
[HD2 General] Beards:
Yes... I pass this on to then regularily.

They even thanked me earlier so someone must be monitoring it.
[HD2 General] aussiebum:
Using 1.48 ROM at the moment.

I don't have the pink central splotch problem that's been widely reported, BUT I have noticed that Auto White Balance (I think) seems to have issues when under artificial (indoor) lighting - as soon as you start the camera everything goes pink and you have to either shutdown the camera app to make the pinkness go away.

Outdoor shots seem fine, as do shots where there is natural (sun) light though.

They really need to fix the camera software!
[HD2 General] babybungbu:
I figured out that other devices also have pink color when they took picture, but in a reversed way: pink around, normal at the center. From that, can we conclude it's just a software fault?
[HD2 General] Beards:
This has been reported many times that the problem effects not just the HD2.

There are photo's in this topic you can look at which show the differences between other Phone cameras.

As to your conclusion that it's just a Software fault......

No, it is the shortcomings of the Hardware where the Software is controlling the problem.

Different Phone's use different methods to control the Hardware.

All the Software is doing is 'masking' the problem that the Hardware is giving. :)
[HD2 General] pympster:
I'm thinking of getting an HD2, is it best for me to wait for the new batch to come in on expansys?

Thanks!
[HD2 General] m-ra:
Mr Beards, please add me to the list:

OS - 5.2.21864 (21864.5.0.81)

Manila version - 2.5.19202525.0

ROM version - 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE

ROM date - 10/26/09

Purchase date: 13/11/2009 from Vodafone UK

Thanks......m-ra
[HD2 General] Beards:
List Updated.

Please see Post 138 Here.
[HD2 General] Dee-Key:
You can add me also.

OS: 5.2.21869 (21869.5.0.82)

Manila: 2.5.19211619.0

ROM: 1.48.409.1 (71294) NOR

ROM Date: 11/20/09

Radio: 2.05.51.05_2

Norwegian Phone, 2nd batch.

Updated from 1.43 to 1.48, but no change in the camera issue.
[HD2 General] Beards:
Dee-Key,

Can you also provide the Date you received your Phone and where from please. :)
[HD2 General] robje_2004:
Add me to.

OS: 5.2.21864 (21864.5.0.81)

manila: 2.5.19202525.0

ROM: 1.43.404.1 (70124 NLD)

Rom date: 10/26/09

Radio: 2.04.50.22_2

Received december 1st 2009 from gsmweb.nl (Vodafone NL)
[HD2 General] tsttse:
i have the same problem on 1.48 asian rom... The weird thing is i have a few time where i turned on the camera and EVERYTHING is pink... COMPLETE pink, not just slight pink... then after i try to focus it on a white object, it was fine, the color came back normal (of course still have the slight pink problem in middle) I have pictures to proof this...

OS:5.2.21869 (21869.5.0.82)

Manila: 1.0.19211620.0

rom version: 1.48.831.0(71294 WWE)

rom date: 11/09/09

Radio 2.05.51.05_2
[HD2 General] dude0014:
Stupid pink hue :mad:

OS Version: 5.2.21864.5.0.81

Manila Version: 2.5.19202525.0

ROM Version: 1.43.488.1 (70124) WWE

ROM date: 10/26/09

Purchase date : 30/11/09..from Carrefour Dubai (UAE)
[HD2 General] liamR:
Mild pink (less than the sample photo), only when on auto white balance.

OS Version: 5.2.21864.5.0.81

Manila Version: 2.5.19202525.0

ROM Version: 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE

ROM date: 10/26/09
[HD2 General] Beards:
Dee-Key

tsttse

liamR

Guys,

Can you please provide details Date & Where purchased from.

List Updated

See Post 138 Here.
[HD2 General] sebasbabel:
The last photos that I did this morning do not present a problem, certainly I have not touched nothing but the white balance is set in bulb and a point less than saturation.

this is the result, I see the problem.

Harris hawks eat rabbits ... in a rich concentration of falconers this morning
[HD2 General] rovex:
Pretty difficult to correct that much cyan, and all the other issues changing the white balance causes. I prefer just letting the pink spot happen and then correct that, its easier.
[HD2 General] pigglett:
Hello

mild pink spot

OS Version: 5.2.21864.5.0.81

Manila Version: 2.5.19202525.0

ROM Version: 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE

ROM date: 10/26/09

Purchased From Handtec

Recieved 27th Nov 2009
[HD2 General] sebasbabel:
[QUOTE = rovex; 5095429] Eso es muy difícil de corregir que cian mucho, y todas las demás cuestiones cambiar las causas de balance de blancos. Yo prefiero dejar que la mancha rosada ocurre y luego cierto que, es más fácil. [/ QUOTE]

You may be right, the truth is not that in my original photo looks so blue, but this cloud is in full light of day.:confused:

Neither is as attached to the thumbnails in this way as you do that clicking on the small picture bigger picture out ..... but that does not fill the entire screen:D
[HD2 General] Beards:
Thanks pigglett.

I've already got your details but added where purchased from. :)
[HD2 General] tsttse:
Purchased from CSL store at Hong Kong, Nov 27. It is weird, if i turn on the camera and then aim at a backdrop before it focuses, it goes ALL pink on me... then i need to focus on something in the near distance for the pink to go away... although the pictures still overall a bit reddish... and i have the same "pixelated" problem as i see on the post above, I will change my quality setting to SUPER FINE later to see if that fixes it...
[HD2 General] Beards:
Many thanks tsttse. Updated your details. :)
[HD2 General] tsttse:
o here is an example of ultra redness... and an example of none red... I took these with all settings on default (auto white balance)... notice how the black rounded figurine on pic 16 looks very aliased..
[HD2 General] Hellas4:
So..i am added to the list but Mr.beard put the date i puchased the device 23 November.

Here's a pic that speaks by itself.

Taken the wall of my room at 2 o'clock on a pretty sunny day here in Greece.Auto white balance.Nothing on settings touched.

HOPE HTC FOUND A HOTFIX AND RELEASE IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!

This matter has been too far...
[HD2 General] Beards:
Many thanks Hellas4.

I've updated your details. :)
[HD2 General] gavinfabl:
Mike, have you heard anymore from Chirs at Clove or from HTC?
[HD2 General] Beards:
Hi Gavin,

Funnily enough I have only just this second finished sending Chris a message asking for an update.

Mike