yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
I agree with you. The purpose of this thread is not to ***** about the HD2. it is a great phone and i am totally impressed with it.

I was trying to see if the OpenGL issue i am seeing is specific to ROM version or not.

It seems that some users are seeing less lags than others, so i assume it is ROM related. Once HardSPL arrive we can try other ROMS and see if that helps resolving the issue.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] mskip:
HardSPL and some nice cooked roms should definitely see improvements in speed and stability especially with some of the greatest chefs in the mobile community already working on custom roms.

In england vodafone have put their next consignment of the HD2 back to the beginning of December (I cant last til then) so maybe the next batch will have patches or improvements that can be passed on to other users.

We all know that the Hardware of the phone is second to none so things can only get better :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
The attached OpenGL samples work flawlessly on my HD2.

At least some openGL is running smooth :)

You are welcome to test.

Source: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=540705
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] DMAND:
I thought you didnt need HardSPL to flash from say WWE to another WWE ROM, or am I wrong??
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
If it is the official ROM (branded by HTC) no you don.t. It doesn.t matter if it.s WWE(world wide english) or not, as long as it is an official ROM you won.t need HardSPL. CookedROMs do need it.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
Actually, I think you do need HSPL for changing some WWE ROMs because it's not the language that's locked, but the Country ID. There are several versions of WWE, the UK one, some Eastern Europe and the Gulf one. They all have different CIDs AFAIK.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
I remeber changing on my touch pro from a UK rom to an estern europe one (official both of them) without a HardSPL, but than again it.s been sooo long without a HardSPL-ed device i don.t know :) Personally, i would wait for HSPL.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] foxcheng:
What will happen if i replace the TG01 video drivers to my xperia X1?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] DMAND:
Has a 1.43.405.1(70124) WWE ROM been posted? I cant seem to find it if it has.

Anyone with poor OpenGL performance tried flashing to it if it's available?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] tibursio:
different processors, it won't work or get you better results. i'm not 100% sure though.. so give it a try if you want 8but don't expect much).
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
It is available here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=577717

I tried to flash it with my eastern European WWE device and i get Vender error.

I guess i need a CID unlock and it is usually released with HSPL.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] RacerII:
I tried the drivers from RUU_Leo_HTC_Asia_WWE_1.48.707.2 rom.

First i ran the opengl test and it looked better , however after a while it started to stutter again.

Tried boom blox , and again still a stutter.

edit: Benchmark looked alot better , but results are not consistent.

First run:

Test OpenGL ES by heliosdev@hotmail.com

Results (480x748 )

--------------------------------

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

181609 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

163641 kPixels/s

color blending

137571 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

92472 kPixels/s

Reboot and a second run:

Test OpenGL ES by heliosdev@hotmail.com

Results (480x748 )

--------------------------------

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

148832 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

125846 kPixels/s

color blending

173476 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

30981 kPixels/s

Edit2: makes no sense at all , did a hard reset and results are almost the same as the first run i did with the newer drivers.

Or theres something wrong with the hd2.

Or theres something wrong with the opengl test.

Does anyone know if the results differ this much with a tg01 or a f1?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] bouaroudj:
hi do you have the sfr version of the HD2?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] 6ak:
Hello there!

I have tried this on my TOUCH HD and everything work perfectly... I think, that answer for all our problems with graphic acceleration lies her...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] l3v5y:
What's interesting is that certain games/programs are using the OpenGLES hardware (Sense, Electopia and Experiment 13 for example) whilst some others aren't. Since Sense runs on MSM72XX it can clearly utilise the older hardware, and may well be OpenGLES 1.X rather than 2.0. If that were the case, the 1.X stuff I've tried shouldn't be as painfully slow as it is.

Maybe OpenGLES 1 is not hardware accelerated, and 1.1 and 2.0 are.

We could try creating a dummy lib for 1.0, 1.X and 2.0 and building a test application linked to each one separately...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
that would be a very interesting test.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] bommel0815:
have you taken a look at the new Acer ROM from hdubli?

it uses Acers drivers and has HTC Sense (and a lot of other HD2 stuff) in it.

maybe this would be a basis?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
Good point, since the weather animations work pretty poorly on the MSM7201 chipset, i recon it uses something other than the original OpenGL ES 1.0 specifications. I think i could ask Heliosdev, a member of the dev group and creator of OpenGL Test. ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] madindehead:
Just as a quick aside, does the HD2 not have a dedicated GPU: the AMD Z430. Surely this should make graphic performance better than some people are seeing?

If the HD2 has a dedicated graphics chip, it should run 3D games/programs fairly well am I right? Or is this the issue we are coming across, where the drivers that have been provided are quite bad, and not utilising the Z430 to its full potential?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
I cant believe HTC just sent me the following on the issue:

"Hello XXX, I understand your desire to be able to best utilize the device. The device is not designed to be used for those third-party games; as such, we do not support these games. If there is an issue with the device that impacts its ability to function, we will address that issue should it arise. However, as the issue is with device interaction with third-party games, you will have to check with the developers of the games for any support. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again. You can find additional support at our user forum www.htcwiki.com. There is also a customer satisfaction survey for you to take if you are interested. Philip HTC Technical Support www.htc.com"

I mean, how pathetic is this reply?

instead of actually looking into this issue, they just BS you all the way.

I wrote a firm reply to this. we'll see what happens next.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] ahdai:
Did HTC forget that the phones they are selling are PDAs? 1Ghz all just for the Sense UI? What nonsense, they might as well block us from installing apps then we have no use for marketplace also.

Seriously, i am having second thoughts of getting the hd2.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
It is so sad to hear this, but as much as i or any other won.t like it... they are right :( HTC never intended any of their device for entertainment (other than video watching - which is hard to do on the run due the lack of a proper battery that can handle that- they never ment thier devices to do anything but business related- see the poor camera, the mediocre sound quality even if it is better on leo than other devices, is still bad). So they will never care if 3d games won.t run or that benchmarks are better on other phones with lower specs, because they never wanted or better say, never cared if any worked. And yes, in their opinion 1ghz and 400+ rams (even if i don.t see the point of those 100 rams dedicated for video performance) is purely for fast sence utilization. Now i agree that this is stupid (and this exclusivness of HTC to the ,,business class,,) and that this will pull down this company. Why is everybody at some point giving the iphone as an example: simply because is made for everyone (u can use it for games and movies, as much as u can use it as a business phone - not as much as hd2 can be used, but with a little work and money you can do that to an iphone). And yes, i as a user and consumer i would like to do that, i would like to play some games from time to time, and watch a movie while checking emails or having a coffee break.

Now, why i and you guys still buy this phones ? Simply because of the potential they have and mainly that potential exists beacause of this forum. I mean not to be rude, but not everything that goes around here is THAT legal :) In short, HTC has a HUGE support due to XDA, i don.t think there is any other brand that can offer such a thing, and this thing is sooo convenient to htc.

Now, the good news about HD2 is that apparently libgles 2.0 drivers work, and all in all this is the future (i.m pretty sure that developers will base their apps on the new drivers) so finally htc gave us something to start on.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Well if any other device can run those simple games and only HD2 can't they are shooting themselves in the leg.

In today's world people need and wand devices that will do BOTH work and play and this is why you see more people leaving the platform towards the iPhone. can't HTC see such basic things?

I know what you stated above used to be their strategy, but i would think HTC is going to change their way after the market mind share has changed...and not in their favor.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
Just a note as I see people referencing 1, 1.1 and 2.0.

All is done using 2.0 hardware. OpenGL ES 1.1 is actually emulated in 2.0 using runtime-compiled custom shaders. This is common for 2.0 devices.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
See? Backwards compatible. ;)

Seriously though, good to hear such a confirmation from you CF. Which means the driverpack for the QSD won't be nessessary, if HTC would deliver proper drivers in future updates.

However if other 2.0 devices have them, they could be used to improve the Leo's performance.

Just stating the facts.

/cpt obvious mode: off.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
I'm actually not sure it is a driver issue per se, it might be just a configuration issue.

I have noticed (and please post if you have noticed the same) that if the device has _nothing_ else to do OGL works fine. The strangest little things can throw it off though, from its 60fps in the test app I'm using down to 20. On some occasions this becomes +- 30 and stays there.

It may be a thread priority issue. I have been looking into that, and have made all sorts of progress like crashing the device, locking up the program, etc etc :) Still I think it may be worth investigating.

EDIT: I'm not completely sure about this, but it could also be something with the shader compilation. If this is somehow triggered often it could seriously slow down rendering, as compiling is not very quick. That doesn't explain half the symptoms, though.

EDIT#2:

ALSO note: different versions of libgles_cm and libglesv1_cm may still make a big differencem as most of the emulation code is in there, as may different libglesv2 versions do things worse or better. AND, I don't recall who posted it but in one of these threads is also a d3dm_ati (I think from the Acer, but not sure) that does hardware-based D3D with snapdragon.. same story as MSM7K, but NOT the same file (probably... it would be more efficient if it now directly uses v2 instead of v1)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
The thing is, i am assuming that when i replaced the drivers with the TG01 drivers and probably broke the emulation of OGL 1.X in OGL 2, the games that did load ran very smooth. so i am not sure if it is some setting in OS that is creating some bottlneck.

It is not only FPS issues for sure, it is the fluidity of the graphics. it can run at 30fps and 60fps and still stutter when using the HD2 drivers.

If it was only an FPS issue, then it should be stuttering at 30FPS. it should be running slow but smooth at 30fps.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
All those things can be caused by wrong threading priorities... Not saying that IS the case. Just investigating it :)

Unfortunately I do not have the time at the moment to trace and try everything properly with IDA...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] VanKurt:
So, are there any news from our gurus here? I can't wait to see OpenGL run in its full glory on my HD2 :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
It might be a lost battle. I don’t know what else can be done.

I have been going back and forth with HTC support on this, so far it is not going anywhere. they claim it is the games fault and they say that the OpenGL test i gave them to try is running smooth on their device....

I claim that it is not running smooth on many devices and all games lag and asked HTC to stop blaming the rest of the world and actually check how they can fix this.

We'll see what comes back. I am not having too much hope at the moment, but if it is not getting resolved my HD2 just might find itself on eBay until WinMo7 is coming out or i might just put the device back in the box and go back to my iPhone 3gs until the problems get resolved (if at all).
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] VanKurt:
Well, I've seen the OpenGL benchmark, the Electopia demo, XTRACT and Experiment 13 all running smooth on the HD2. So at least we know that it can be done.

All that's left to do is find out HOW...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
Well ok, who here has a device which this runs perfectly on? Let's dump it and compare...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] aussiebum:
Have you tried NFS Undercover and/or Tower Defense? Xtract seems to run smooth for me, but both NFS Undercover and Tower Defense stutter at frequent intervals.. enough to be annoying.

Would be nice if you could post your drivers up for comparison if possible thanks :)

EDIT: Running ROM 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE. Have already tried turning off HTC Sense to see if stutter goes away, doesn't make much difference.

EDIT 2: I keep having the feeling that the stutter might only be restricted to applications developed under the .NET CF (3.5) platform?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] l3v5y:
What interests me is that the Acer S200 drivers are identical, they must therefore be Qualcomms implementation, rather than an OEM build.

Experiment 13, which is agreed to be pretty damn good uses the same driver (libgles_cm.dll) as other OpenGLES 1 games, and it's the same as what Manila uses.

Perhaps then it's not the drivers/hardware, but the way we're using them? The OpenGL libs we're currently using are hacked together from the OpenGLES spec and what some old dlls actually exported. Maybe we need to update them and see if newer games are using different calls?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
There's a lot more to the drivers then just the libgles files. We really should compare both registry and all related files from properly working ROMs...

If its gonna be with S200 then the differences will be a lot more so much more work, so that sucks. But unless we can find a properly operating HD2...

Anyhoo, what you talking about hacked together libs? I don't know about you but I just use khronos material...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
The complaint of HD2 users is simple. It looks like a frameskipping issue of some kind, while the MSM platform doesn't have this issue. (except for the Polaris and Kaisers, which have an older implementation)

My Blackstone runs Experiment 13 perfectly, sans the gsensor function. So older implementation of OpenGL es drivers work good. Maybe that's also a thing to look into?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] rovex:
Is this slowdown specific to only a few games? I installed Prince of Persia HD and it runs very smoothly, almost too fast.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
prince of persia is not an opengl game thus it is running fine.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] rovex:
Ok ill try to find some other GL games.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] koleno:
NFS Undercover running smoothly here on 1.43.479.0 (69828) WWE here...

edit: experiment 13- also no problems running smoothly
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] aussiebum:
... really? the only thing that screwed up SD card was tnnynt's sd card tune up. I installed gfxboost 1.2 and it works fine (ie. doesn't kill hd2)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
Still, I'd refrain from using GfxBoost on HD2... I think it'll only slow it down (but probably unnoticable).
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] rovex:
Im actually having difficulty finding many GL games apart from the ones mentioned on this thread. All the games ive tried run fine, many dont say if they are GL or not.

To be honest as long as future games are coded like the 2 SE games and Southend games i dont see the issue, most of the old GL games i have found are rubbish and ugly old things anyway!

Ok it not a good excuse and some people do want to play the old GL, but surely 2.0 is the way forward now.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] VanKurt:
Sadly OpenGL ES 2.0 development is not possible right now. There's no SDK, no libraries, no tutorials, no samples no nothing. So for now we're stuck with 1.0.

So it would be nice to have that working smoothly on the HD2...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] l3v5y:
Changing the EGL configs from what they used to have to be on the Diamond to the following massively improved performance, though it's still not great, and not as fast ass it was on my Diamond...

From

const EGLint configAttribs[] =
{
EGL_NONE
};

To

const EGLint configAttribs[] =
{
EGL_RED_SIZE, 5,
EGL_GREEN_SIZE, 6,
EGL_BLUE_SIZE, 5,
EGL_DEPTH_SIZE, 16 ,
EGL_ALPHA_SIZE,0,
EGL_SURFACE_TYPE, EGL_WINDOW_BIT,
EGL_STENCIL_SIZE, 0,
EGL_NATIVE_RENDERABLE,EGL_DONT_CARE,
EGL_RENDERABLE_TYPE,EGL_OPENGL_ES2_BIT,
EGL_NONE, EGL_NONE
};

I also changed calls like:

glesSurface = eglCreateWindowSurface(glesDisplay, configs[0], hWnd, configAttribs);

To

glesSurface = eglCreateWindowSurface(glesDisplay, configs[0], hWnd, NULL );

Which gave some modest change...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Shasarak:
I could well be wrong, but my understanding is that games like Xtrakt and Electopia are hard-wired to run on Qualcomm hardware - they don't use OpenGL ES or any other standard library. If I'm right about that, the market for games like that is inevitably much smaller than the market for games that can run on any WM device with sufficient computational power, so we probably won't see very many more of them.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
Ok, I have a lead on a fix - I've been working on this the past few hours - but I have not been able to build a good patch yet. Manila is being a ***** about it :)

I will continue this on Monday as I am leaving now for the weekend. In some tests I ran though, results are good (but can't do proper testing until the patch works properly).
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] VanKurt:
Great :D Two thumbs up!!!
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Awesome! you have made my day!
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Shasarak:
I understand this probably isn't a priority, but has there been any progress on enabling hardware acceleration for Direct3D?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] l3v5y:
It may well be that D3DM is using the libraries that Chainfire is attempting to patch, as it was on the Diamond...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] l3v5y:
The fix Chainfire is proposing really does make things work much faster (when applied to source code rather than the libraries, so it's not much use to most people).

Playing around with the exact configuration in my earlier post should give you a massive performance boost.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] christonabike:
You can install the tg01 driver - that enables D3d HW acceleration but it's still not fantastic tbh:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] mskip:
Do you know if it improve overall system speed or just when running OpenGL applications? ALso I know its too early to tell (if it can even be completed) whether the extra performance will come at the cost of battery life or if it just makes everything more efficient.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] rovex:
Perhaps , but how many HD2s, Neotouches and TG01s have been sold? Quite a number im guessing. All it takes is an enterprising developer to write games in that fashion and your on to a winner. How many upcoming devices will also use snapdragon? This is what winmo needs, consistency across the platform. The 3 hard-coded games run well on most Qualcomm devices, we need more like that, more designed to run on snapdragon, which is going to be HTCs main CPU from now on, and therefore Winmos main CPU as well. This is why iPhone wins, its a single device. Hard-code to snapdragon (or even MSM 72xx) and winmo wins as well.

Its harsh but we need to let the older devices die otherwise we just wont progress. Snapdragon is between 5 and 20x faster than anything else on the winmo scene depending on the situation, why should it be held back by the older devices? Attitudes like that will kill winmo.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] l3v5y:
I've put a few videos up about this at WMPowerUser.

The last video is with a different configuration to the one I posted earlier, but I haven't changed any drivers at all...

There are some issues with it occasionally failing to exit etc, which I'm trying to work out why, but Chainfire may well have patched it before I can work this out... :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Thanks for the post in WMpowerusers. i will make sure HTC see's that it is now out in the open. it makes no sense that we will need to patch drivers so they will work. hopefully this will get them to release a fix.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] mskip:
I really cant see them releasing or even working on any kind of a fix. They have failed time and time again to properly support their devices once they are out in the public domain as that would admit a failing on their behalf. They will just give some explanation on why they dont have to bother with it and leave it upto xda developers who put their heart and soul into making the phone acheive its full potential.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
And that my friend, is the reason Windows Mobile is failing. because of such OEM's that are not supporting devices. no upgardes and no patches.

I do however want to believe that HTC is getting a wake up call with recent sales numbers and the state of Windows Mobile and they are changing their ways.

I do believe that they do understand why people are buying less WinMo devices and are moving to other platforms and the fact that they have just released their flagship device on a WinMo platform is saying that they are committed to get it working right (or at least that is what i am hoping).

I don't think HTC want to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

The more people emailing them or calling them to complain - the better.

It is simply unacceptable that at the end of 2009 we are still dealing with such issues.

Android got it right. Apple got it right. Acer and Toshiba got it almost right....HTC can't fall behind.