yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] maati:
I said non-Symbian smartphones!

HD2 has the best camera of all non-Symbian smartphones.

D'oh. Is reading really that hard?
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
So you're saying that it's the best camera on a phone you can get except for the very large number of phone cameras that are much, much better? ;)
[HD2 General] rovex:
Is being wrong really that easy?

(as i said)

LG WINMO PHONES!! Also Most Samsung Winmo phones. I found most android phones cams are better in some respects, mainly speed and focus.

To be honest ive seen better from some Blackberrys as well, and the iPhone.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Yeah. To be honest, you'd be hard-pressed to find a phone with a worse camera than the HD2's, unless it's another HTC phone.
[HD2 General] maati:
Don't know any LG WM phone with a better camera. The iPhone has a ****ty camera and Blackberries have no good ones, either.

Sorry Shasarak, but if you want a Symbian or a dumb phone, what are you doing here?!

We at xda-developers want WM or Android phones, and the HD2 has the best camera among them. If that's still not good enough for you, just buy a Symbian or a dumb phone and stop annoying us here at xda.

That's what I'm saying.

Only a small minority of smartphones (!) have a better camera than the HD2 and all of them run Symbian, which we don't want. And we don't want dumb phones. So, what I'm essentially saying is: It's the best camera among all the phones that we consider.

(Yes, there are many many phones with better cameras but we don't consider any of them because they're all ****ty dumb phones or Symbian phones)
[HD2 General] AbdullahT:
you are right. Most of HD 2 users take pictures in specific light condition to show the pink spot. but in general its not that visible

My Omnia HD was having pink spot as well, but honestly i didnt notice it earlier. just after I heard about HD 2 pink issue, I take a picture of plain white surface and then I had noticed the pink issue

I think I will order HTC HD 2 now, I will not wait any more :)
[HD2 General] AbdullahT:
I think you are right, for Windows Mobile phones, HD 2 considered to have one of the best cameras around

but I guess Omnia 2 i8000 has better camera than the HD 2. other than that, HD 2 is better in each aspect.
[HD2 General] Isadora:
Can you add me to the list please Beards. It's not as bad as some I've seen posted on here, but I can see some pink that shouldn't be there :rolleyes:

Dec 1 from Vodafone ROM 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE
[HD2 General] rovex:
Most LG Winmo phones produce better pictures, whatever the specs are the result is better.

The same goes for all Omnias winmo or not.

Blackberrys may have worse cams on paper but again the results are often better. There is less white balance error and often better focus control.

The iPhone 3GS cam is not too bad. In daylight it often produces better more consistent results.

ALL of them may have a pink spot, but all of them have it to a much less degree.

As for symbian, speak for yourself. I have 3 Symbians and i love the cam, and the phones are easy to use.
[HD2 General] maati:
The Omnia II camera is about as good, maybe a little bit better.

If you prefer resistive screens to capacitive ones, the Omnia II is a good alternative.

For the camera, the Omnia II is the only non-Symbian smartphone that can compete with the HD2.

That's simply not true. The first Omnia didn't even take better pictures than the Touch HD, except when the flash was needed (I had both phones and did countless comparisons). LG WM phones do not take better pictures either.

Ever seen daylight pictures from the 3GS camera? They're full of noise! It doesn't matter how good the lighting conditions are, the iPhone 3GS takes only crappy, noisy pictures. The iPhone 3GS is completely useless as a camera (except for videos in good outside conditions).
[HD2 General] rovex:
Sorry we will have to disagree on this. One critical thing means all HTC phones lose. The focus control. They are just way way to slow. Unless you are perfectly still and allow the phone ages to focus pics are almost always blurred, even if its just slightly. Even the can on my breakdown emergency phone (a 640x480 samsung E250) has better focus control.
[HD2 General] maati:
Do you have an HD2? The focus control has been changed and it's faaaaaaaast now ;)

I was complaining about this for a long time when I had the Blackstone, but now it's great!
[HD2 General] rovex:
Yes i do, and sure the phone takes the shot much faster, but any movement will blur the picture, its faster, but no more accurate than the HD (which was poor). Its better in good light, but in poor light or even in overcast weather conditions it just blurs.

Try another test. Take a picture of a movie playing on a large plasma, it will be blurred. My friends iPhone cam gives a sharp pic, as do my symbians (of course) and so does my house mates blackberry.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
I have 3Gs with me and you are right about the picture quality taken in daylight.

Just an hour before i tried to take some photos of my baby with Iphone and got annoyed of the pixels and took with HD2.
[HD2 General] rovex:
I guess it depends what you classify as 'better'. To me the HD2 pics need more clean-up in photoshop.
[HD2 General] maati:
Whatever... :)

I'm very happy with the HD2. I bought it primarily because of the camera and it didn't disappoint. The camera is much better than any other camera I've ever seen on a non-Symbian smartphone (except for the Omnia II, which is at least as good).

Of course it's not as good as many dumb phone cameras and much worse than my bridge cam, but for a smartphone, it's great.
[HD2 General] deyanp:
There seem to be new official ROMs available (1.48) but they don't fix the camera issue. I assume there will be a separate hotfix for the camera ..

@Beards: May I ask you what happened with your inquiry at Clove regarding the pink camera problem - did you get an answer?
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
"98% of phones do not slice off any parts of your body when you use them. Other non-Symbian smartphones slice your hands off at the wrist, but the HD2 only slices your fingers off, so I think the HD2 is great!" :)
[HD2 General] maati:
Get a life. Stop consuming drugs. Learn how to read.
[HD2 General] rovex:
To be honest the only reason i argued with you so much is that you are rude maati.

Pictures taken on the HD2 can be very nice, but they do need a good clean up, not something i mind doing though. When the pink is in a picture it is really bad and does make the pictures worse than any other camera ive ever seen. Its just good that it can be corrected manually.

The HD2 can get the colour and exposure completely wrong sometimes. It can be so bad that correction in photoshop just isnt possible or worth the effort.
[HD2 General] Beards:
I spoke with Chris Love today.

He is still waiting for HTC to get back to him.

The second I receive an update I'll most certainly let you all know. :)
[HD2 General] panart:
HTC HD2 Official ROM Update 1.48.xxx

New official roms are going to be available in the next few days from htc. The updates have been leaked at htcpedia.

Anton D. Nagy of pocketnow.com states that after preliminary testing users report that the Pink Spot Syndrome has been fixed and no longer affecting the device.

http://pocketnow.com/software-1/htc-hd2-official-rom-update-leaked
[HD2 General] Beards:
Yes... I have heard of this new ROM update.

I didn't know about the better battery life though.
[HD2 General] maati:
It has not been fixed.

EDIT: This could dethrone the HD2 as the best non-Symbian camera smartphone: http://pocketnow.com/rumor/android-tablet-motorola-sholes-is-a-beefed-up-droid
[HD2 General] Beards:
maati,

Where did you read it had not been fixed?
[HD2 General] maati:
I've tried the European WWE version and the pink spot is still there.
[HD2 General] rovex:
No it hasnt been fixed, id say my cam is a little better, in that the pink happens less often, but its not gone.
[HD2 General] adolfotregosa:
same here. 1.48 an it is the same
[HD2 General] makeveral:
i also think it's a bit improved but not fixed
[HD2 General] Beards:
That's because it's the Hardware that is the root of the problem.

All the Software Fix is doing is trying to camouflage the error.
[HD2 General] maati:
I don't think that there's any improvement at all. This is not the ROM update that's supposed to fix the camera issue.

(which is not surprising, because these ROMs must have been completed already some weeks ago)

If you see any improvement, that's just wishful thinking. By no means can they release a fix that fast (it's been only two weeks since they have been informed of the issue!).

@Beards

These ROMs are not supposed to fix the issue. They're not even trying to. The hardware issue can easily be 'fixed' with a software update but it takes some time until such a software update can be released. They don't release any update immediately, it must run through quality control and testing befor it gets released. This means that those new ROMs are actually already some weeks old and this means that the camera fix can't be included.
[HD2 General] makeveral:
i hope you are right :p but camera app has been updatedin this new rom
[HD2 General] maati:
The camera software gets updated all the time.

I hope they're even working on a good fix, but if you think about it, this can't be the supposed fix because it's been only two weeks since they said they would work on it.

Unfortunately, there's no changelog. The calendar bug has been fixed, but I don't know what else has been changed.
[HD2 General] rovex:
Its different software so there can be a difference, whether it was intended or not. My pink blob is now a different size and shape and is much less noticeable on the screen, but is still clear on the PC. Clearly there are differences, but it wasnt intended to fix the pink blob.
[HD2 General] maati:
That's true. But none of the changes in this update were intended to fix the pink spot issue. At least I hope so, because if this was the supposed fix, it would be really disappointing... but as I said before, it's quite impossible that this is already the update that's supposed to fix the camera.
[HD2 General] rovex:
True but the camera software is different, so some differences might be expected.
[HD2 General] MicTh:
Eehh if this is the same "quality control" they have been using in general for the last 10 years, it dosen´t say a lot :rolleyes:

** By the way i promised to update you guys when i talked to a supervisor at HTC but they have manged to awoid my calls. (I wonder why..)

A OT quistion. Why are the cameras on WM phones so terrible?, is it not possible to make good software for that or what? :O)
[HD2 General] maati:
No idea. Most smartphones don't have good cameras, except for a few Symbian devices. Some theories:

1) Maybe it's just because there's more dumb phones out there which also means more dumb phones with good cameras.

2) Or it's because the hardware in dumb phones takes less space (slower processors, no WiFi or GPS etc.) which means more space for the camera module and that makes bigger sensors and things like xenon flashes possible.

3 )Or it's because many smartphone users are 'professionals' who use their phone for work and don't care much about the camera - or at least the handset makers believe that they don't care much about the camera.

I guess it's a combination of those three reasons.
[HD2 General] MicTh:
hmm.. maybe. But then again there is nothing worse than useless things (in my opinion) so why put a camera in it if you can only use it in perfekt sunshine, with no brown or red things or anything moving, and only if you can stand perfectly still for 30 sek. sigh :(
[HD2 General] sebasbabel:
I would also like to know if this update fixes the bug that disables Audio Booster to change songs or when device is in sleep mode.

In Spain we have the update RUU_Leo_HTC_SPA_1.48.412.2_Radio_Signed_15.28.50.07U_2.05.51.05_2_Ship.exe

Right now I'm downloading but I will not try to be sure it works or at least write down all the settings and registry changes made so far ..

But if someone updated please test and report it if you like.

Thanks
[HD2 General] rovex:
I recently opened up my N95 8GB because it stopped working. The camera module in it must be at least 6 or 7mm thick or more (excluding the external lens cover). There is no way that would fit in the HD or HD2. It also has a much large aperture, and the lens is clearly much larger and flatter.
[HD2 General] Xeon:
N95 camera is a legend :)
[HD2 General] rovex:
It is indeed, even my old N73 is way better than the HD2. It has to be cheap hardware. From my N73..
[HD2 General] mooooooa:
My "pink tent" is now almost gone, with the new rom update. But I've got a new BIG issue: When I start the camera, the whole screen is pink in about 10-15 seconds, before it turns at normal colours again.. So if I turn on the camera, and immediately take a picture, then the picture is DAMN pink... an example:
[HD2 General] Xeon:
Looking at the last pic, it's not gone at all, it's even worse :eek:
[HD2 General] mooooooa:
It has been more worse! So for now it's better. :)
[HD2 General] maati:
Well, this is not true for the HD2 anymore. The flash really works great and, what's even more important, the light sensitivity has been greatly improved. The pictures are much brighter and less noisy in bad conditions than they were with the Blackstone.

Of course. Ever wondered why all the camera phones (e.g. SE Satio or Samsung Pixon) are that thick?

I guess the WM/Android handset makers just think that there's no market for thick WM/Android phones with good cameras.

Unfortunately, you can't have everything (WM + best camera that is). The HD2 is currently the best choice if you want a non-Symbian smartphone with the best camera possible (or the Omnia II if you prefer resistive screens). If the HD2 camera is still not good enough for you, you have to buy a Symbian or a dumb phone.
[HD2 General] plamentg:
4)If you make sth perfect you can't possibly make it any better and you can't make people buy your future products. There are many people who change their smartphones twice a year. Would they do that if their older devices were perfect? I don't think so. (there will always be exceptions of course)
[HD2 General] jordanb84:
quick question....

see when you do a rom update, does it put all your settings back to factory? or do you lose anything?

thank you please :)
[HD2 General] mooooooa:
You will loose anything, but you can do backups :) then you can easily restore your data.
[HD2 General] rovex:
You lose everything not on your SD card. All settings and progs.
[HD2 General] Xeon:
I don't change my device that often when I pay 1000$ to get it... if you know what I mean.
[HD2 General] makeveral:
here is a photo taken with rom 1.48 by me...
[HD2 General] Coatezy:
I received this reply from HTC

Dear valued HTC customer, Thank you for your enquiry about your handset. This is a hardware issue and you can contact your re-seller to exchange the device for another one or contact us and we will send this device to be repair. If these steps have not helped, please let me know by responding using the link provided and I will be happy to check again for you.
[HD2 General] Spizella:
OMG.

:| I don't like this...
[HD2 General] Beards:
Which HTC Support did you contact and any other info please.

Simply saying it is a hardware fault is a brash statement.

A comment such as this should have further material.
[HD2 General] cobhc:
The more I read this, the more it's putting me off getting a HD2.
[HD2 General] Isadora:
In case re-sellers don't have enough problems at the moment trying to clear their backlog of current orders...
[HD2 General] Coatezy:
Sorry I am only giving you the info that HTC sent myself.. :)

I contacted them via the HTC Global ContactUs System (Raised a ticket) and a rep for UK and Ireland replied. I have since requested that they give further info as to what they believe the fault is exactly. I have contacted my re-seller and they have requested the phone is returned to them.

I also have another fault with the phone whereby the power/lock/unlock button is very loose and you have to press it down (only lightly) passed being flush with the screen before it gives any resistance and you can then press it to make it click and respond. Of course this is also effecting the back button slightly as well. :(
[HD2 General] Coatezy:
Tell me about it.. And im worried if it does get replaced I will just have the same problem with the camera.. :( Kinda wishing I didnt give my Iphone 3gs away to my Partner now! :eek:
[HD2 General] Yes!:
Now as many here have reported, I have to confirm that i'm experiencing the same red spot problem.

I'm not sure if i'm willing to have my phone replaced.

How long will it take to be replaced and will there be any guarantee that a new one won't have the same problem? :(
[HD2 General] Coatezy:
That's My concern as well.. I'm willing to wait a while for a replacement to be sent.. (although I would be stuck with a Blackberry 8900 for a while :( ) as long as HTC have resolved the issue. I guess I will just have to wait and see once returned.
[HD2 General] Beards:
No problem Coatezy... thank you for providing what info you had.

Before I move on.... could I ask one other question please:- Where exactly did you purchase your HD2 Phone from AND what date did you receive it?

Mine was from Clove Technology UK and was received on the 11 Nov 2009.

In defense of Clove, I have dealt with them since they first opened their doors back in the early 1990's and know the owner Chris very well.

He and his team have always given an exemplary service and I have the highest praise towards him and his team.

Indeed, Chris has been in contact with me several times on this subject alone and wants to get to the bottom not just because I am a valued customer but wants to ensure his customer base are indeed also protected.

Finally, I have now received an update from HTC Support this evening and the entire content read as such:-

Thats not a software problem, our apologies.

If you can ask CLove to swap it, please do so, if not we will come and collect it for repair.

You can arrange this by calling 08458900079.

Best Regards

--------------------------------------------

Well, there you have it..... Some of us do have a problem with the camera and the only remedy is to return it ASAP whilst you can, otherwise it will be deemed a repair.

As to wondering if the replacement will also show signs of the same problem, it's not guaranteed. All I can say though is Chris Love at Clove Tech has checked and can not find any fault with the HD2 they have in stock.

I will ask him to get one of his staff to check my replacement prior to dispatch.

Sending mine back on Tuesday.

Mike
[HD2 General] Coatezy:
Beards,

Received mine from Clove on the 17th.. Yes they have been very good and their service in both ordering and also in resolving my issue has been fantastic! I will be sending mine back to them on Monday. (would have sent today but didnt see my mails until I got to work. :( ) I'm glad I did my research and purchased from Clove now tbh! Changed to a Blackberry 8900 now because of the lock button.. :( Not very fun! lol
[HD2 General] Beards:
Please do let us know how you get on with the replacement.

I'm going to ring Chris tomorrow to check what his stock level is like.

If he is out of stock and there is a long wait before the next batch I'll more than likely keep mine until a few days before available stock.

I still have my HTC Touch HD but having now used the HD2 this past 9 days I'm hooked on this new Phone.

You'll be alright with Chris.... as you already know, he will look after you.

Mike
[HD2 General] tripleA:
ive got mine from Vodafone a couple of days back, saying that i get a pink blob is an understatement. i actually started another thread called *Pink world* :P

oh my, i dont want to believe that i have to return it ...*sighs*
[HD2 General] hawrai68:
Is there anyone that does NOT have this issue? would be good if we were aware how widespread this is...I have slight pink spot also... also the thumbnail images in Album look extremely over saturated (only for photos taken with the camera).
[HD2 General] cobhc:
That's good that HTC have eventually addressed the problem and found that it's a hardware fault. Hopefully I shall be ok if I do go ahead and get one as I won't be buying till next month.

Thanks for the information.
[HD2 General] ijob:
Folks, I've attached a pic from work yesterday, something we did for children in need. Faces have been blurd as not to embarrass anyone lol

It does look very pink, what do u think, is this the issue?
[HD2 General] Nighthawk:
I just took this at Target, a Christmas gift for my little girl. I have the same problem (you can see the redish tint in centre), even if I change "white balance" it still appears.
[HD2 General] nghj:
this extent of pink hue is the worst i've seen personally.
[HD2 General] Beards:
Extremely pink..

Does all of your shots show like this or is it when you first switch on?

Mine does this occasionally when first switched on but as soon as I move it around it alters back to normal (bar the problem in the centre).

What settings do you have that created this shot?

I can see the pink but it is very slight.... Nowhere as bad as on mine or others I have seen here.
[HD2 General] ijob:
Automatic everything, flash didn't activate. This is a problem that I've only just realised was this erious thanks to u guys on this forum. Having played around with the phone again today, even when I dont take a picture there is still a glow in the middle of the screen.

There's also my SMS issue too. Hopefully I will be able to send this phone back.
[HD2 General] Xeon:
So the new ROM is not the hotfix we are waiting for it. Please tell me it is not.
[HD2 General] maati:
That's true but you can't apply this rule to the camera. It's impossible to put a better camera in an 11m thin device. They couldn't have made the HD2 camera any more 'perfect', aside from the software issues.

They would have had to make the device thicker if they wanted to put a better camera in. I personally would not want the HD2 to be any thicker...
[HD2 General] Beards:
You totally misunderstand me maati.

I know this particular ROM fix is not designed to correct the problem nor will any ROM 'fix' it

All it will do is apply a mask on the problem.

Which is what I have been saying all along.
[HD2 General] maati:
I know. But I'm fine with that.

Sure, HTC is lying about it being a software issue - because it clearly isn't - but if they give us a software 'fix', that's perfectly fine, at least for me.

Cause you should understand that a hardware fix is impossible, because all camera chips are affected. The issue is 'by design'. A hardware fix would require the camera supplier to develop a new chip. That will not happen.

Also, this is an issue that can be corrected with software, even if it's a hardware issue. A good software fix can remove the problem without affecting the quality of the pictures. The only question is how much effort will HTC put into the fix?
[HD2 General] deyanp:
Can't be - it will come earliest next week (hints from HTC Support). Still, I think the new ROMs are a good trigger for another wave of inquiries at HTC Support ;). However, they don't seem to answer anymore - at least my reply to their answer from yesterday hasn't been answered yet ... they seem to be sick of answering questions related to the pink camera problem ;)
[HD2 General] Xeon:
Too much I say. I bet they're in deep ***.