yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 General] Kaptur:
From what I could find the chip is surface mounted to the PCB by an array of tiny solder balls (FBGA). To remove the chip one has to heat the assembly to the point of all solder points melting. The same thing to mount the chip, place it on the PCB and heat it. Concidering how delicate the process is, with the balls only having 0.3~0.4mm of space between them (and you don't want a short circuit) this has to be done professionally with precision tools.

Or you could like, do it with aluminium foil, vacuum tweezers, hot air pencil and the mission impossible theme playing in the background.
[G1 General] John5788:
this is true

he means theres no way to address the higher address ranges, something I touched on briefly in my first post on this topic on page 2

qft
[G1 General] :
How about the graphic RAM.... could that be increased..and then added through a mem hack.. or are there any other ways to add ram elsewhere.. or have an interface..
[G1 General] lbcoder:
No. He means what he actually SAID: "the onboard controller needs to be capable of accessing larger chips". Well, it IS since it is the SAME as the one in the MAGIC and HERO, so we know it can address at least DOUBLE the flash and RAM.
[G1 General] lbcoder:
Its shared... and the split is determined by the kernel. Hence the 10MB hack.
[G1 General] daveid:
Right, I wasn't aware the memory controller was "on-chip".

My other point still holds valid, that new memory chip would still need to be "formatted" so to speak. It would have to have it's "partitions" mapped, allocated, and properly formatted for the different layers. Which would require a NAND programming tool, the likes of which no one on here has access to (or we would see someone offering up un-bricking services).
[G1 General] John5788:
theres a difference here. the MCU is definitely capable of accessing that larger memory address, but we don't have all the address lines traced out on the PCB to the ram chip. the existing traces to the ram chip for ram addressing is fixed and cannot be changed unless you print a new board. at least doubling the amount of ram would require one more bit of addressing, which we cannot add. this was the point I was trying to drive.

unless its completely different in the software how memory is being addressed. i know NAND flashes can be addressed in 32/16 bit using 8 bit instructions, but I'm not too sure how the RAM addressing is accessed. so I could be completely wrong still.
[G1 General] :
Now the hero is using the same chip.. but has more memory... would be interesting to compare a hero board with a dream board.. wouldnt be surprised if it's mostly the same...
[G1 General] skozsert:
I'm kind of curious about this, does anyone know if the 32b sapphire uses the same chip as the 32b dream and what differences there are between an 32a and 32b sapphire other than the nand/ram chip and radio chips?
[G1 General] Hiker.Chan:
Is it possible to merge the spare rom space into ram? I mean just used the spare rom space as ram, as there is almost 90mb rom free after app2sd.
[G1 General] lbcoder:
No.

Flash and DRAM are two totally different things and are NOT interchangeable.
[G1 General] :
instead of doing a new circuit board to trace an extra line.. can't one just solder on a cable connecting the relevant pins... would be easier than redoing the entire board for one connection...
[G1 General] Hiker.Chan:
I meant just use the spare ROM as VIRTUAL RAM, something like swap?

Will that be possible?
[G1 General] lbcoder:
Not unless you want to blow it with excessive writes.

Limited number of writes available.

If you want to do swap (which you shouldn't anyways), use the sdcard. At least the sdcard is replaceable.
[G1 General] APrinceAmongMen:
Linux-swap and compcache aren't that hard on your memory.

An internal swap partition does sound nice actually. A kernel patch to include an internal swap and an sdcard swap?

And

if

my phone dies on my it'll probably be the time the dragon is out. :)
[G1 General] John5788:
not practical for an FBGA chip
[G1 General] :
hmm ok don't know much about these chips. So brainstorming.. any other promising ways this could be done. Using Rom as virtual Ram... how much Rom are we talking about that is unused... anyone have an idea. And also how fast is that rom if used as ram.. is it faster then the sdcard? guess one could just benchmark the rom flashing... but anyone have an idea about that?
[G1 General] lbcoder:
That was just asked a few posts back, and the answer is still no. Neither useful nor recommended.
[G1 General] naack:
what about Jtagging the device? i know there is a thread working on it and they are getting close to it. that can solve the low level programming. i think what we need is a bricked hero to check for possibilities.

i can imagine it working with just the spl or the boot loader or whatever it is that needs to be programmable by SD card or recovered by Jtag to do the partitions and so on...

i would love to swap the chips and give it a shot if it's possible.

i'd also love to shift or add the 3g 850 frequency if possible. thats what i need around here :(
[G1 General] John5788:
what about using the jtag interface? that doesnt solve anything in regards to what we are discussing here.
[G1 General] naack:
i'll spell it out...

1 change chip.

2 g1 is bricked since chip is blank..

3 jtag may help ? perhaps put the spl or the boot loader and or complete firmware?

4 i can imagine all thats needed is the spl to get in to the device and do whats needed to recover the divice with the new chip.

now questions...

does anyone know what is used for the hero? and is it the same number of pins? perhaps it can be swapped. perhaps the chips can be ordered pre programmed with an SPL.

just thinking out loud. i know its a far shot in the dark.
[G1 General] John5788:
change what chip? the DRAM? DRAM is blank when you power off the device. this thread is discussing the possibility of extending the DRAM not the NAND flash
[G1 General] lbcoder:
dram and flash are actually on the same chip on this device.
[G1 General] John5788:
ah thats right! thanks for the reminder, i was totally forgetting that point.
[G1 General] nagash91:
Make a dump of flash? Impossible?
[G1 General] mbrunt:
Just out of curiosity... The specs for the Samsung K5E2G1GACM mcp list 1Gb DRAM, or 128MB.. my question is, if the G1's have 192MB RAM, where is the other 64MB?

i couldn't find detailed specs for the K522F1GACM chip that lbcoder mentioned, and I don't think I'll open up my phone just to find out which chip my G1 uses

like I say, it's pretty much just curiosity
[G1 General] lbcoder:
MSM7201A..
[G1 General] mbrunt:
Really? Fascinating... I had suspected as much but couldn't (still can't) find anything to confirm.

Off-topic, my first computer back in like 1983 was a TI 99-4a, which was one of several computers I learned BASIC programming on as a kid. I think it had less than 1KB of ram. I remember using its tape cassette storage to save my programs. Anyway, it's amazing what I'm holding in my hand right now. (my g1) and even more amazing that it's already being left behind..

I think rather than dreaming of hardware ram mods to the g1 (the last computer I saw a functioning hardware extra ram hack on was an atari 520st. I also had a mega st with a processor mod upgrading it from 8mhz to 20mhz or so... but I digress) it's better to go to the "g1 successor" thread... ;)
[G1 General] havikx:
i remember one of the main problems with overclocking past 528 was the fact that even though the processor may be runnin fast as hell... the chipset couldnt keep up with this.

if you gave the g1 a newer, bigger chip set to work with.... you might see massive improvements overclocking past 528.

definatly keeping an eye on this thread. the g1 is an incredible device. even though its outdated now, there is still something special about it. its the flagship, i suppose. i would love to make it faster still. even after swappers, overclocking, and all the other hacks.
[G1 General] :
g1 is far from outdated. if you think this is true because there's newer phones - they're all "outdated." it's not top of the line - it wasn't when it came out - but it is still VERY popular. hell, there are many phones that put the nexus one to shame. they're just not phones you see everyday in America.
[G1 General] lbcoder:
It is amazing the amount of work that you could accomplish with an 8088 with 512kB ram.... As long as the hardware can do useful work, it is not obsolete.
[G1 General] mbrunt:
I certainly agree with that. I just got my G1 a month and a half ago when my old Motorola v360 finally died. The G1 is an awesome little phone with a lot of power and capability. But I don't think pursuing a RAM addon hardware hack is practical, which is what this thread is about. If you want more RAM it's best to move to a different device.

That being said, I think we can still do a lot with the resources on the G1, as all the devs are showing. Development challenges brought on by relatively limited resources are a lot more interesting than the feature creep and bloating that comes with excessive resources. (Personally I have no desire for live wallpapers and campy 3D ui gimmicks!.. but then I still have fun with command prompts...) :)
[G1 General] havikx:
i have way more experinece in desktop computers hardware than in cell phone hardware, but extending RAM is something done normally with computers. providing the chips you were using werent locked to a specific manufacturer. i've updated many computers with more RAM. pretty painlessly i might add. though i'm sure doing it in a such a smaller comparison would be troublsome at best.

HTC - high tech computers. from that logic...i'm sure it can be done.

i wont be the one to do it though. just thrown my 2cents out there.

also...from the looks from the teardown page (thanks for that link), it looks likethere is only one place for RAM. what i mean to say is... computer motherboards normally have 2-4 slots for RAM. mostly 1 is left open for upgrades. on the phones mainboard...looks like only 1 "slot" so you would have to find a larger chip as opposed to another g1 chip.

i know htc make more phones with more RAM than g1. are the chips made by the same company (samsug i believe, corrrect if wrong)? are they the same type of chip. IE DDR or SD as in desktop computers.

i'm sure if a larger capacity chipset were to fit in there...it could work. then again... you guys brought up the point of internal partitions and spls. either way...i'm sure HTC knows the answer. any1 try contacting them?
[G1 General] lbcoder:
Funny thing about 3D -- this will be done mainly by the GPU when implemented properly, shouldn't have much effect on RAM used and can also lighten up the CPU load considerably (i.e. LIGHTEN the CPU usage, and with that lighten the RAM usage).

3D compositing can be used to IMPROVE efficiency, otherwise the screen transitions, animations, etc., all need to be done the hard way in the CPU.
[G1 General] lbcoder:
Why don't you look up the term "memory addressing". You will note that it order to address double the amount of memory, you need to increase the address bus by 1 bit. If the memory controller (in this case CPU) or board you are working on just happens to have that one extra trace laid out to carry that extra 1 bit, then you're laughing. If it doesn't, as may very well be the case here, then there is nothing you can do.
[G1 General] jmhalder:
what I think people are failing to mention, is that if the NAND portion is statically mapped, then there wouldnt be a problem running the same stock radio firmwares, also The extra ram would be addressed in the kernel... ultimately, with the NAND section copied it should run (without the memory addressed, but whatever, getting one running at all would be the goal)

*edit*

brochure for NAND/DDR - http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...s/downloads/hdd/psg_memory_storage_200708.pdf

page 21 2gbNand/1gbDDR

its probably worth mentioning that its FPGA137 I believe, how is anyone gonna read that? I doubt its possible with anything available to ANY consumer... Its not something simple like a TSOP... If I knew someone with a production reflow station with amazing skills and a FPGA137 programmer, I'd be all over this... too bad none of that is true :-(
[G1 General] lbcoder:
FPGA as a package, isn't too hard to deal with. The problem is in getting the existing chip OFF THE BOARD.

You also wouldn't need a special programmer for it -- just solder on the new BLANK chip and jtag it. The jtag details are presently being worked out in the 'dev forum.

But again -- you are not considering MEMORY ADDRESSING. It doesn't matter if things are statically mapped if it is missing a required PHYSICAL CONNECTION.
[G1 General] jmhalder:
That's a big "IF", if I had the equipment, id be trying to get a sample from samsung and a bricked g1 mobo. Just ran android 2.1 on a touch diamond, it flies with almost 2x the ram and a processor that's almost identicle.
[G1 General] lbcoder:
Well for those of us with only one phone and no interest in ruining it, it can be a little painful to destroy the chip and possibly mainboard just to answer that one "if".
[G1 General] macpod:
Lets say jtag programming and bga rework are non-issues. Has a pin/bank/voltage/etc compatible upgrade even been identified yet?

The chip in the phone is a k5e2g1gacm

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...s/downloads/hdd/psg_memory_storage_200708.pdf
[G1 General] hackbert130:
Is this Possible?

Well, the idea of upgrading this phones memory to make it up-to-date just overwhelmed me. I read the Thread, remembered a Teardown on PhoneWreck (may not link, google "g1 teardown").

Pls take a look at the Photos of the Flash/Ram Chip and then Compare the Number to the one on Page 21 of the last posts PDF ... i think its K5E2G1GACM...<unreadable>.

I do have a little experience with hardware design, but there must be something wrong, or would HTC buy massive stocks of these big memorys to shrink costs and then restrict acces to it somehow?

It would be great if someone with more exercise in hardware modding would digg into this. Even if it turns out that my first post in this Forum might be ... well just dumb, but there have been things like that very often (i have my hacked 100 Mhz Rigol DSO right here ;) ....
[G1 General] hackbert130:
Has anybody yet thought about that cpld? I think its the actual Memory Controller, because when you google "g1 jtag flash id" or something you will find that the flash id over jtag seems to be 0xBAAD, wich seems to be a Hynix H8BCS0SJ0MCP. Well as we now there is a Samsung chip doin the work inside.

Well, when you boot your g1 you will see a cpld-4 messsage, on Hero its cpld-12.

So i dont know its true but i would love to see a dump of that Chips, maybe even the VHDL Code. I dont know if that can be done via jtag, i would have cut the jtag chain of the Xilinx Coolrunner to avoid things like that (if i would be htc).

It would be really grat if someone could find a detailed Hero teardown, where we can see if the Chips controlling/containing the Memory are the same.
[G1 General] lbcoder:
I think you're reading the document wrong....

Under k5e2g1gacm, it says "2 Gb flash 1 Gb dram".... NOT to be confused with "2 GB flash 1 GB dram".....

2 Gb = 256 MB.

1 Gb = 128 MB.

That seem a little more familiar?

Now obviously, what you would be looking for as a replacement is a 2 Gb / 2 Gb or a 4 Gb / 2 Gb like the one in 32A devices.....
[G1 General] lbcoder:
Here's some more stuff that I found:

HTC dream: MSM7201A+H8BCS0SJ0MCP

HTC Magic: MSM7200A+KBY00N00HM

HTC HERO: MSM7200A+H8BES0UQ0MCR

Note: That H8B listed beside dream is the same part from a different manufacturer. Hynix -- wherease the K5 part is SAMSUNG (as is the KBY part beside HTC MAGIC). Note also that the magic and hero are the same, again the brands differe.

Further note that the 32B's all have the MSM7201A whereas the 32A's (256 MB RAM) all have the MSM7200A..... coincidence?

In any case, your best bet for upgrades, which are almost GUARANTEED not to be compatible anyway, are the SAMSUNG KBY00N00HM or HYNIX H8BES0UQ0MCR.
[G1 General] hackbert130:
Ups. Yea, sorry youre right thats a bit not a byte. Alright than that cant be done by a Firmware Update. But i still wanna do it, will keep reading!
[G1 General] mghtyred:
so bottom line, a lot of people talking a good game, but nobody stepping up to the plate to actually give this a try? Sad.
[G1 General] foxdie:
Shame this never came to fruition, I have a spare G1 thats just floating around in a drawer someplace that I'd like to do something cool with :)
[G1 General] bmtdan:
Same here lol
[G1 General] SH31KH:
Took it apart and found the chip..

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but this is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote my previous post.

I took apart my G1 and found the NAND Flash + DDR SDRAM Samsung chip on the motherboard (K522F1GACM-A060). I have all the tools to remove it and put on a new chip..but again as mentioned in this post..I have no clue how to program the new chip. Maybe NOW there's someone who has the knowledge to accomplish this??? :confused:
[G1 General] bresiyel:
The problem is that doing this just doesn't make sense monetarily. If you REALLY want to pursue the project for something fun to do, you will likely be on your own with most of the stuff.
[G1 General] ezterry:
The problem is you really do need the secure partition from the radio section of flash.. this is where your imei and serial number are..

Thus best is to dump the existing chip, and flash it (to the low addresses anyway) to the new chip.. the only way to date I've seen is some of the for pay jtag solutions have support to write directly to flash..

After this with luck it will map the memory like the sapphire letting the kernel access it if the memory map is updated in a custom kernel... if you are not lucky the radio will ignore the extra ram, thus no additl ram will be available..
[Touch GSM General] we2amr:
i lost all contacts please help to recover
[Touch GSM General] ivanmatz:
there's an application called as Wizcode Undelete Mobile use that to recover those files
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pietrucci:
READ THIS THREAD AT YOUR OWN RISK!

MISINTERPRETATION COULD MAKE YOU BLIND!

Ok you girls and boys,

I figured it's time for my traditional benchmark thread like on the Hermes, Kaiser, Diamond and Topaz.

First benchmarks are of the stock ROMs. In the attached sheet you also see some results of the Hermes, Kaiser, Diamond and Topaz, just for comparison.

As expected (and hoped!) the HD2 is much much faster than all the other devices...

[EDIT 27-12] First benchmark of cooked ROM (itje's), using bepe's SSPL

[EDIT 28-12] Added Coreplayer test as of today. I won't benchmark Coreplayer for the previous tested ROMs, that's too much work.

With one exception: the HTC stock 1.61 as reference.

I've integrated the coreplayer results in the main page.

[EDIT 03-01] Added 3 extra benchmarks in Coreplayer (the matrix files). I take the average of the 4 tests as new Coreplayer index.

[EDIT 09-01] Added pagepool size

New ROMS

XannyTech Evolution 1.0 RC1 without sd-card (23518/28205, Sense 2.5.1922)

All benchmarked ROMs

HTC Stock NLD 1.43 (21864)

HTC Stock NLD 1.48 (21869)

HTC Stock WWE-TUR 1.61 (21869)

Touch-IT Black Leo WWE v1.1 (21887, Sense 2.5.1922)

PDAVIET 2.01.531.02 v27-12 (21887, Sense 2.5.1922)

Topix v0.1.1 (21887, Sense 2.5.1921)

l3v5y Clean ROM Full v27-12 (28014, Sense 2.5.1921)

Miri HD2 WM6.5 v1.0 (21887, Sense 2.5.1921)

Sone HD2 v1.0 (28014, Sense 2.5.1921)

Topix v1.1 Sense 2.5 (21887, Sense 2.5.1921)

HD2O v1.2 28205 GER (28205, Sense 2.5.1922)

Xannytech's Pandora 1.0 (21887, Sense 2.5.1922)

maatiROM V3 premium (28014, Sense 2.5.1922)

Dutty's Leo Holy Grail V.01 (21887, Sense 2.5.1922)

EnergyROM 28011 Std M2.5 alpha 06-01 (28011, Sense 2.5.1922)

PDAVIET 2.01.531.06 V06 (23517, SENSE 2.5.1922)

Miri HD2 wm6.5.X v1.0 (28205/23518, Sense 2.5.1922)

TouchIT BL 23518 V08-01 (23518, Sense 2.5.1922)

Laurentius26 HD2 V1 Ultimate Series (21877, Sense 2.5.1921)

freyberry ROM.V5SE 28014 (28014, Sense 2.5.1922)

Tom HD2 WM6.5 v1.0 21887 (21887, Sense 2.5.1922)

XannyTech Evolution 1.0 RC1 (23518/28205, Sense 2.5.1922)

XannyTech Evolution 1.0 RC1 without sd-card (23518/28205, Sense 2.5.1922)

freyberry ROM.V5.3 23518 (23518, Sense 2.5.1922)

More to come...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pietrucci:
Reserved...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] tossero:
Great work ,thank you ! :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] zsunsun:
39 mA max draw? what kind of black magic they did to HD2? I WANT!
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] duttythroy:
Thats really fast benchmarks with just stock Rom. I cant wait to cook for it soon.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] taiseer999:
Me too :D:D:D

good to see you here bro..
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] chaisit:
Can not wait to get one.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] tnyynt:
For me this will be the first device that not only will never see a cooked ROM but will not even see a HardSPL. :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Xeon:
Why? can you elaborate please ?

Is it because HSPL will not be available anytime soon as HTC is making it harder and harder?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] tnyynt:
Well, because first, I returned to stock ROMs on all my devices after trying lots of cooked ROMs and cooking myself and on the other hand, because HD2 is everything I need, there's no personal need for a cooked ROM as far as I'm concerned. It's all about personal preference.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pietrucci:
Are you saying you are just gonna use it as a phone??? Are you crazy? Don't be rediculous...

:eek:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] tnyynt:
Yes, pietrucci, since it's a phone :D Now seriously, there's nothing a custom ROM would do or have that could possibly make my device better from my point of usage and view. Speed is instant, memory is alot, no bugs so again, as far as I'm concerned, I'll stick to stock.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Laurentius26:
haha.. stuck to stock is the right word, LoL :D:p;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] mr_Ray:
At first I thought "my god, the man's gone raving mad!" but you have a point. There are a few annoyances, but nothing that really needs a custom ROM to sort it out.

If I didn't so much prefer the 6.5.x UI over 6.5 or the SenseUI overlays, I'd probably think the same.

Still, as a Mod, you're setting a terrible example. ;)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] tnyynt:
It's a personal preference made public based on the right to free speech ;)

We need to end this so I can clean up the thread for the benches.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] willbread:
for information, i did a benchmark test and i had these results :

it's a little bit better than yours...;)

and it was with HTC sense on
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pietrucci:
Think of a new Opera, a new Manila, new keyboard, more multitouch functionality, even more memory... wouldn't you like all that precooked into the ROM?

I don't want to convince you, if you're happy with the way it's now, then enjoy it. Certainly saves you a lot of time! :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] tnyynt:
I think I've had my share of flashing and cooking trying to optimize devices and OSes. Now I feel there's nothing to optimize!

Now, would a Mod clean up this thread of my useless personal comments?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] Xaddict:
Stickin to stock

I understand your sentiments as I am thinking the same, but I wonder how long it will be before the call of the wild leads me to experiment...

An improvement in power mgt would be welcome.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pietrucci:
Yes very very little (0,7% ;)).

Your graphics index is slightly better, the other two indices are a bit faster on my device.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM Development] pietrucci:
Yes that's true. Although ROMs that are really fast in benchmark are (almost?) never really slow in dialy use.