yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
I want everything as nice as possible, but not necessarily the nicest. I admit dedicated consoles and dedicated cameras are better, but it doesn't matter because I don't carry them with me, and I won't. Not becaues it's a religious principle, it just happens this way. I had an iPod which died because I left it without charging for too long. That's what would happen with a PSP if I bought one, and that's what happens with all dedicated devices in my case sooner or later.

My HD lasts for at least a day even with gaming (usually more), so battery drain isn't an issue for me. It's not like I spend hours gaming anyway.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
Not quite, although i see your point. We won.t see this games till christmas that is for sure, but as for capacitive screens there is a big wave of handheld devices that are going to use this technology(wm devices), furthermore HTC is on a ravaging campaign against Apple Iphone (actually microsoft is) and if you search the web there is a new software made by SDK i think, don.t quite remeber(sustained by microsoft), which makes porting apps from one platform to another in a matter of minutes (provided the source code obviouslly). So let.s say there is a developer makeing an app for the android (i won.t compare to iphone no more), it should.t be hard anymore to port that application to another platform (wm). In short, the games that are allready on another capacivie platform can be ported to windows mobile capacitive devices.(which is HD2 ... for now :)) )
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
You are probably referring to Airplay SDK. It's not intended to port applications from one platform to another, it's an SDK to make cross-platform applications. So in order for it to work, you need to write your source code using this SDK, not the iPhone/Microsoft ones. It's using C++, while Apple's native language is Objective C, and Android's is Java. Porting existing applications will be much trickier than launching a program.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
You could be right on this one, as i said i don.t quite remeber but it was something about apps runing on different OS. Still, i think capacitive screen-games running on WM is not as far away as we may think. I hardly belive we will use the HD2 just for pinching and zooming.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Right now we don't even know whether HD2 has "true" multitouch - i.e. can report several taps simultaneously (instead of, say, measuring the distance between two touches and activating zoom on distance change). So their implementation may be just for zooming. Whether the screen is capacitive or resistive or quantum foam based doesn't matter.

There's no HTC SDK available, so it's hard to say how this will evolve.
[HD2 General] gauner1986:
This doesn't sound that logical... To measure the distance you would have to know two points on the screen. :P

But can't someone with a HD2 test it somehow.. e.g. by pressing two different keys on the keyboard simultaneously and see what happens or sth.?
[HD2 General] Zero Masamune:
Nothing happens.. but you can do the "flashy" thing (pinch) to zoom in or out on the pictures or in opera.
[HD2 General] SnooPPP:
Could it be a software issue for the lack of multitouch in the keyboard?

Just like with the Motorola Droid is lacking multitouch in the US version, but recently the GSM International version has showed some multitouch support despite being the same hardware.

Well I was planning on buying a bluetooth game controller anyways, but lack of multitouch is going to be a little annoying with the on screen game pads.
[HD2 General] DaveLeh:
Soneobe over at the FpseCE Boards tested it and said:

So unfortunatley it doesn't support what we are expecting from a multitouch device. So the only chance is for some 3rd party programmer to write software to enable multitouch in certain applications, but I am not sure if this can be done without having any drivers or background informations.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
So ... till now we have a multitouch-capable device(as the screen is capacitive 100%), without the multitouch activated :) - kind of a dumb thing, feeling a bit disappointed here.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Certainly, the question is what is reported by the touchscreen driver to the applications:

a) "true" multitouch - hey, application, here's two pairs of coordinates, do whatever you want to do with them.

b) "pure pinch to zoom" - hey, application, the user moved his fingers apart, and the ratio is 150%.

You might think the latter approach is strange, and it is. Remember though, HTC have a patent to dodge around.

In each case you'd need to register the actual touches, but it remains unclear what is reported by the driver and how.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
It's on the sillier side of things to expect WM programs to work with multitouch without modification, regardless of whether it is "enabled" on HD2 or not.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
It kind of feels like when the Touch Pro came up, great specs but no true video drivers and poor 3d performance (my nokia n82 used to run smoother than TP). Same here: ,,the first windows mobile capacitive screen" ... which you can.t use for now:)) well, still wainting for mine
[HD2 General] i900frenchaddict:
Hi!

I can't really see a reason why it doesn't work with morphgear that is able to support "multipress" when you have a keyboard or an external gamepad or enough hardware buttons. For me, it means that when you press two points of the screen, the emulator gets only one information and not 2 comming from the screen.

I fear this "multitouch" of the HD2 will never be a real one (and "the pinch to zoom trick" is something I don't find useful and nor really impressive, I wouldn't exchange the possibility to use a stylus for the pinch to zoom function)
[HD2 General] 3mL:
Couldn't agree more. Even if HD2 works flawless with a gamepad, you can't simply take one with you at all times..
[HD2 General] br3nt:
you're missing the point here...

Windows Mobile was never intended for the things we are doing with it right now - people expect to see iPhone killers and what not... aint gonna happen till atleast winmo 7

windows <6.5 was made for business, hence the hardware for it. Along came iphone and changed the game, making business phones "available" for everyday users, and they want to play games - HTC releases hardware supporting to a certain amount, but not fully capable due to OS restrictions

not happy, buy different devices for different purposes (yes its expensive, but what can we do?)

just my thoughts on it ;)
[HD2 General] Benjiro:
It seems somebody quoted my first tests from fpseCe forum here, so i may just as well post more information.

http://www.fpsece.net/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=2939&#p2939

The hardware clearly supports Multi-Touch, this is now very clear by running several tests on the pinch-zoom ability. Whats missing is WM6.5 support for the multi touch input. It might be possible to include multi touch in the Emulators, by accessing whatever dll that HTC uses, for there pinch-zoom.

In other words, its clearly in the system, just not used.

Hi i900frenchaddict :)

Take it from me, a stylus is ... well. Close to never needed. Even when Morphgear's control icon's who's contact area is maybe 5mm on this screen, you can still clearly press them without a stylus.

Note: Morphgear's interface does not scale with the screen size, so the virtual pad, icon's, interface icon's etc are all minuscule! on this 800x480 screen. Thats why i said the control icon's are 5mm.

Took me some getting used to how this capacitive screen handles its input when you press small links or icon's. But now after a few hours, i can even press very small contact points ( where you expect that only a Stylus can bring salvation ).

If you want to press a small thing, you just don't press your entire finger, but use the lower contact point off your finger. Works just as well.

You don't need a big contact surface on your finger to register. Even some minuscule bit off your finger, and the screen reacts to it ( impressive to be honest ). Its actually more responsive then Resistive touchscreen + Stylus.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Jesus, people, it couldn't theoretically work in Morphgear because the latter is programmed to expect only one pair of coordinates from the system! It's absolutely silly to simply put a program like this into a system that supports multiple touches and expect it to work. It's like using a black-and-white TV to "test" color TV signal - the signal won't make any difference as the color information will be simply ignored, the B&W set won't even know what it's like!
[HD2 General] mr_Ray:
Exactly right.

The only way HTC are able to do it in their own apps is by completely bypassing the OS and working directly with the hardware. WM itself at no point is aware of any of this funkiness.

Until WM7 when this is set to change (unless MS bring it in in a later 6.x release - unlikely), Windows Mobile will only ever know about single touches. Unless a whole bunch of other high end capacitive devices are released, few if any big developers are going to be interested in hacking up multitouch support for the sake of one specific phone for one year or less (until WM7 releases).
[HD2 General] warnold007:
So hopefully we will see a mod here from xda to be able to put the multi-touch functionality for morphgear and other games.

This is or was actually my main question and concern as I have posted in other threads before. No one can answer me then, but I think now we know that it is of course not supported natively.

As always, it's up to our hardworking and talented XDAers to make extend our devices to their full potential. :)
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
Actually, for the ones that look forward to use morphgear, the new overlays do a great job on a non-multitouch-device, chek it out on youtube, they show it on a toshiba tg01 and that device doesn.t have a multitouch function
[HD2 General] DaveLeh:
Yes, but those overlay tricks won't work on a capacitive screen like the HD2. At least I would think so.
[HD2 General] ToddeSwe:
OpenGL test on youtube HD2 vd HD

Now you can see this OpenGL test on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htj8r1gWgc

Looks nice eh? :)
[HD2 General] mr_Ray:
Not really possible. The apps in question would have to have their UIs rewritten.

In a word, no.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
Well, i guess the ideea is quite simple at this point, the HD2 is the first capacitive wm phone, but wm is not yet optimized for multitouching use. So for the ones that are days close to having this device, we still have to wait some at least till wm7 will be launched ( march 2010 ... so they say), but games will have to wait a little ( personally i belive that the use of multitouch is strictly for gaming on a device that has minimum hardware buttons, and htc usually do not go in that direction when launching a new device, the ideea is of a business phone). Also for the ones that still whant to push that 1ghz processor and those (almost) 500RAMs, morphgear is going to work on HD2 as it works on any other device( the new overlays that they are working on are optimized for a non-multitouch device, please see the youtube videos on toshiba tg01) and that is good enough for now. I.m more than certain that with the launch of wm7 we will have full multitouch support, or at least the SDKs (they have to sell it somehow right?)
[HD2 General] DaveLeh:
We have word from the PS1-Emu programmer that his Emulator is or will be written with that in mind, so that is not the real problem. The problem is sending two virtual button presses to the application.

Not quite. Those special Keypads are working with the behaviour of resistive screens in mind, but I have my doubts that trick will work on capacitive ones, too. So using morphgear on the HD2 might actually be an experience not as good as using it on the HD, control-wise.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
I fail to see why not. Anyway we are running mostly on blind suppositions here, the best thing is to wait and see, i have great hopes on this phone.
[HD2 General] DaveLeh:
On a resistive screen, when you press two points on the display at the same time, there will be a "pressed down" line between those two points. It's hard to explain but you can test it for yourself by opening some Note application, where you can make drawings. Now press two points at the same time and you see that a line will be drawn between those two points.

This is used in those special virtual gamepads, by hiding hidden buttons along the direct connection between let's say "move right" and "A", which indirectly presses a hidden button that executes "move right"+"A".

But this only works because of this special behaviour of resistive screens. I am not sure if capacitive ones have the same behaviour. Maybe that behaviour is a WM one and not a resistive screen one. I don't really know, because as you said it's speculation and we will only know for sure if someone with a HD2 will try if those special virtual gampads for Morphgear (you can find them here on the boards) will work as I described above.
[HD2 General] mrturq:
HA:DHA:D

that is so funny to read
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
You are right about the resistive screens (the whole ideea with the invisible line), but ... as seen on the video the guy that plays MorphGear on the TG01, when he press ,,move right,, and ,,A'' nothing happens, but when he press ,,A,, and slowly moves the finger right(without releasing the finger), the character in the game moves right and than performs action ,,A,,. So, what i was sayin' is that the whole ,,overlay,, ideea is implemented to use single touches (+acceleometer), which means that if they release morphgear now, i THINK (as i said, blind suppositions) it will work on HD2, with on-screen controls.(although they do try to implement multitouching for HD2)

Even so, the ideea of a capacitive-device, not being able to perform multitouching yet is at least annoing. It.s a pitty because the specs on this device do permit alot more, especially in entertainment.
[HD2 General] snowblindd:
To change morphgear-subject a little bit, what do you guys think about the finalburn emulator? Will it be usable on the HD2? (due the lack of hardware keys to map). I.ve been using finalburn alot, one of the best emu for htc devices, but while using it on the TP1 an TP2 was easy, i guess on HD2 will be tricky at least.
[HD2 General] i900frenchaddict:
The day will come when, you all, HTC HD2 addicts, absolutly trying to defend a capacitive screen that is only able to pinch to zoom, will tell me that it's impossible to press 2 hardware buttons at the same time....(french susceptible humour here) :D

And I'm gonna to be really "silly" now: What the f..k do we really care about why it doesn't work? Jesus christ (and all the holly family) it just doesn't work, that's at least a fact you just can't disagree with.

And if you're right about what you say here (but I may be silly once again!) it's also sure FpseCE 0.10 won't support """""HTC multitouch""""""" When it's out, you 'll have to play exactly the way I play with my good old resistive screen

(and only if the capacitive screen reacts the same way a resistive screen does. I may be silly once again, but I still don't have this answer: does the HTC HD2 make a "virtual" point in the middle of a "virtual line" between 2 pressed areas, like morphgear does with a resistive screen ????? If not, that may be bad news for some emulators...)
[HD2 General] DaveLeh:
Right! This is the question I also raised in my last post.
[HD2 General] AshHD:
Anyone who has their HD2 already want to try this demo:

http://www.southend.se/games/electopia/download.php

It has in-built GLES2.0 drivers - Let us know if it works? Thanks
[HD2 General] niels_90:
yes it works. looks nice!
[HD2 General] darken_rahl:
yeah, it works. looks very good
[HD2 General] i900frenchaddict:
Don't blame me, I'm here for good news (and haven't read anything here since my last post)

Concerning FpseCE, I talked to Schtruck, he is not pessimistic at all concerning the possibility to implement "real" multitouch in FpseCE

He'll work on it when he has an HD2, maybe in a few weeks/months

(remember he implemented multipress on the samsung i780 hardware keyboard and implemented the G-sensor of the TG01 for FpseCE, that is so far the only "game" that can use the G-sensor of the TG01, it doesn't support hacked HTC .dll...)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure General] ozmbie:
I'm using Opera 9.7, and I'm wondering if I can change the font it uses?

I assume the Helvetica font comes installed, since TouchFlo uses it...is it possible to get Opera to render pages using Helvetica as the defauly sans-serif font?

Thanks!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dazzl1113:
I realize this may be super noob but I want to flash my new stock TP2 to a custom rom...but was wondering if I should at least get all my email accounts and exhange server settings and all that stuff done first as the phone and manual instructions will match more closely or do I just need to wait until after flashing (does flashing reset all settings to default)?

Thanks!!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] DaveTheTytnIIGuy:
When you flash any ROM, whether it be custom or official,

you will lose ALL data

, so to the average user, it's the equivalent of a factory reset. Therefore, it'd be kind of a waste to set all that up, just to lose it again. Hope that helps
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dazzl1113:
Awesome, that is what I figured. Just wanted to be sure.

Thank you!
[HD2 General] hmo66:
Check the announcement ceremony, the CEO presented HD2 side by side with iPhone when demonstrating the keyboard!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0lLcz2VGZY
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] isikh:
Hi I don't have a data plan and I got a picture message I want to view..is it possible to download it throught wifi somehow since I don't have a data plan? If so, how? Thank you so much in advance!
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] phamous:
why don't you try and find out for yourself? xD

just get wifi?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] isikh:
....I've clearly tried that, but MMS doesn't work on WiFi hence my asking...
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] JAguirre1231:
I'm sure there isn't. But I'm pretty sure you don't need a data plan. My old RAZR did it just fine without a data plan. I know from experience that you can't send or receive mms over wifi :(
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pjcforpres:
MMS is solely and OTA event. You also do not need a data plan to view an MMS. You do, however, need the proper settings in your phone before it will DL a MMS OTA.

As for sending one over WiFi, yes, it is called email and IMing.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tazz9690:
you used to be able to, but T-Mobile took care of that, and the APN is now blocked so you can't send or receive the mms messages. Kinda sucks.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mobileD7:
settings for MMS over wifi?

pcforpres mentions settings in order to be able to read MMS over wifi, what are the settings? I'm also interested in reading MMS messages over wifi. It would be awesome if I could read/write MMS messages as well, since I do have the unlimited sms/mms with the G1. Obviuosly, I don't have the data plan yet. Thanks!
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] roguestatuskat:
i think it would be pretty useful.... cause i dont get 3G service in my room or good service at all , and sometimes its impossible to even send an sms
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pjcforpres:
I did not say you could send MMS over WiFi, I said you could only send MMS OTA, which means Over The Air, aka through your carrier's network.

The reason people can't send MMS with cooked ROMs most of the time is because they do not enter their carriers settings into the phone, just like you need to enter the data settings. Sometimes, the date account settings and MMS settings are one in the same, but most of the time they are not.

As well, MMS are independent from having a data account. Every single carrier allows any customer to send and recieve MMS for a nominal fee whether they have a data plan or not. Some bundle MMS in with text while others with data, but MMS is independent of both of those services in terms of network protocol and phone settings(with a few exceptions where if you have a data plan, it is the same setting that your phone uses to do MMS and internet)
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mobileD7:
WiFi and MMS

Thanks PCJforPres. Per your previous post "MMS is solely and OTA event. You also do not need a data plan to view an MMS. You do, however, need the proper settings in your phone before it will DL a MMS OTA.

As for sending one over WiFi, yes, it is called email and IMing."

You mention you do not need a data plan to view an MMS. I'm currently able to receive the MMS, but not able to download it. Is this what you are saying as well? or can we actually read it via wifi? Are there proper settings to use with no data plan? These MMS messages I somtimes get are just text, but for some reason they come in as MMS. SMS works great. Any thoughts or solutions?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] raptoro07:
Yes, you must set up your phone with proper MMS and SMS settings for your carrier. MMS does not need dataplan.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pjcforpres:
What is likely happening is that you do not have the proper MMS settings, either the ROM doesn't have the MMS application, or you have yet to set the settings up. So instead of getting the MMS, you get just the text with a blank "image" box or whatever because it cannot connect to the server to download the data portion. There is no way to us WiFi to do this, because the internet has no way of accessing your carriers network and obtaining that info. It is stuck in your carriers routing system, and after X amount of time will be deleted if you do not download it.

Call your carriers CS line and ask them what the proper settings are for MMS, even if they say they don't support the G1, insist that they tell you the manual settings for a smart phone... you should get APN info, Proxy and Port info, default website info(this is the site it downloads from technically), network type (ie is it WAP, Secure WAP, HTTP, Secure HTTP)... there might be more or less info needed, but those are the basics.

You can usually search the interwebs for this info as well.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cephasara:
And these APN settings are far and few to find but good luck if you find them, I have tried everything, every different type of APN for T-Mobile US and had absolutely no luck.

These are not facts but my own conclusion about this: What I'm afraid is that Android pushes all MMS activity through the data connection anyhow. Because after using another T-Mobile SIM, with the data connection, I was instantly able to download all my MMS pictures. So I don't think there is any correct APN setting for MMS to work without the data plan sadly. That's why I started a thread awhile ago to hopefully build support.. but I guess most people out there have the data plan or no data plan + no messaging or simply just don't care about MMS.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=559805

I'm just hoping that somebody will try to fix this problem eventually, but like I've discovered there just isn't much demand for it. Personally, I want to get into Android dev but I can't say how long it'll take me to learn the ropes plus if I'll even be able to do anything about it myself.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mobileD7:
MMS over wifi

Yeah, it is crazy that MMS is not available over wifi that we know of. I was going to call tmobile for the APN, but from reading it sounds like MMS by default goes over there new data APN? no clue. What a crappy way to make money for tmobile that they have to force customers to have the data plan. At least SMS works and other functions over wifi (which is really all I need). I don't have time for non-stop data access for my phone. Yeah, hopefully there will be an alternate fix to access MMS over wifi or another APN. Any ideas or does any one have a working APN they can provide?

I guess I'll try tmobile again for a valid APN.