yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Angelus-:
Just out of curiosity,

The Acer neo touch is alot faster then the HTC HD2, why not just using the Acer rom on a HTC HD2 or compare those 2 and so it can fuse together?

I know in words it's easy 2 say, it's more of a question from my side then a suggestion.

Brandon
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] kostasalfa:
Tried the patch yesterday.Made manila weather animations run in slow motion!! Other that that great. I didnt have shuttering problems on my hd2 with the games mentioned in this thread at all (not tried tiki towers) , but installing the patch made them look smoother. (BUT IT MAY BE PLACEBO!) After unistalling the patch manilla animations went back to the super speedy stock level!

Anyone else tried??
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] kostasalfa:
UPDATE.. Version 1.1 fixes this.. Able to choose between fast and anti shutter modes! Great!
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] bleary:
My device absolutely FLIES with these new drivers!!! The sense interface is how I expected it to be out of the box now - well done all involved!! :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] cyruslam:
Thanks a lot for your great Work! ChainFire

I would like to report that the Asphalt 4 ELITE Racing is not working in both mode.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Chainfire:
Can you provide more details please? Also, stuff about the patch should really go in the patch thread :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Asphalt 4 is not an OPenGL game and has nothing to do with the patch.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Geeba:
So if I'm reading this correct the 1Ghz Leo still doesnt have the graphics performance of the iPhone 3GS? Is this to do with the resolution difference?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
theres one iphone with a score nearly twice all the other iphones on the glbenchmark results table.. that looks suspicious to me! i do wonder if its been hacked...

therwise with chainfires driver patch, its pretty easy to beat the normal iphones by over 100 points. or closer to 25% increase
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Shasarak:
That, plus the iPhone's PowerVR GPU is a lot more powerful than the one contained in the Snapdragon chipset.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
Yes, but at least there is alot of performance gain from the stock builds. Why would one compare a windows mobile device with an iPhone? These are two totally different OS'es and are of course, very different!
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] mskip:
Well put :)

At what it does the iphone is certainly a market leader but in the end its just a big toy. I love my ipod touch but apart from being able to change the icons and add some weather bars in theres absolutely no ability to customise it. With Windows Mobile you have Sense, if you dont like Sense you have Spb Mobile Shell, if you dont like Mobile Shell you have the standard Today screen with plugins or a whole plethora of other screen enhancements. Thats why I would always choose Windows Mobile over apple OS or android.

I think I got off topic a bit there haha :D
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
Iphone 3GS has a more powerful graphics accelerator than the Snapdragon. Iphone 3G doesn't.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Shasarak:
Absolutely. :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Geeba:
Geessssss why do HTC keep building Ferrari's and putting 2CV engines in? :confused:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Geeba:
I completely agree but it would be nice to have smooth video and not have to re-encode it too.... with that amount of real estate screen wise video is a no brainer.... I really like my HD and your driver pack helped no end... but as you said before "its average at best" performance wise... just not sure on my next HTC purchase.... :(
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] peter7:
sorry but where can I download the patch ?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] derta:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=592663
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Zazamak:
Registry files where?

i just tried to do some registry edits to make this work and i couldn't find either of those files.

do i need to get them from somewhere? install cabs of any kind?

would be cool if i could get them. no rush though.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
that's ok, those neo touch files just look like they need recmodding

here they are recmodded..

not tested them yet (or signed 'em etc)

I do wonder if we should look at the diag_lsm though

which is now in XIP on Leo
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
oh the v2 neotouch driver works with sense

benchmarks are :

Alpha : 159919

Torus : 102476

Color : 127148

Sub texture: 87413

the test looks awful with light on, but dimmed very smooth. However when the light dims the frame rate cuts in half. That at least makes sense, how often do we play games with the backlight dimmed :D

GLbenchmark next
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
How can it look smoother with half the framerate?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] :
Glad they were of some use.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] 20mihalko:
where i should copy that libs? i also want to try that...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
because it's not trying to draw so much to the screen i guess and the refresh rate of the screen can't cope? I dunno .. one for the more technical to work out..

i remember the good old wheels test in linux, when we first had dedicated graphics cards. it went through the roof but looked awful.

http://www.glbenchmark.com/resultdetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&resultid=9012779&D=HTC T8585 HD2

there's my results. Looks like Neo's original link in the first post of the thread has been updated with my latest run.. finally I'm beginning to beat the TG01 in somethings..
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
just copy v2 dll to start with to /windows test others afterwards.. one at a time and softreset after copying across.

You need A) a decent file manager

B) sdkcerts

C) turn off security warning for non certified stuff

V1 drivers seem to have installed ok.. sense still works

testing testing

Ok with neotouch libgles_CM libglesv1_Cm and libglesv2 i get in opengltest

alpha 144816

torus 94702

color 127210

sub 106544

ok that's got a better glbenchmark score again..

beating the s200 but not the tg01

http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&showhide=true&D1=HTC T8585 HD2&D2=Acer S200&D3=Toshiba TG01

processor speed is still a bit limited
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Fdo35:
Now that someone has uploaded the Acer neoTouch drivers, I think we should try to find the drivers from the TG01, I heard its Open GL ES 2.0 performance was really good.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
I tried to copy the NeoTouch 4 DLL's files (v1, v2) and it works with Sense but the games are still choppy.

I then copied over the TG01 V2 DLL, Sense was not working but the games that did load were super smooth.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
the acer drivers and the ones I posted yesterday from the upcoming leo rom appear to be identical...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] fards:
can you post the tg01 drivers?

I'll have a look
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] rovex:
Has anyone tried changing the v-sinc setting in the registry? All the snapdragon devices bench WAY higher than devices that can play smoothly, so it cant be a speed issue directly.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
TG01 drivers attached
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] :
Going to test these on my acer f1, im curious to see how much more frames can it give.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] smaberg:
added

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\GL]

"WindowVsync"=dword:0

and device feels smoother, but dont know bench..

gonna try

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\VelocityEngine\3D]

"enable"=dword:00000001

and copy needed file to windows, just to try...
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
I have been playing with various driver combination for some time today with not much luck.

Every time I was able to get games to run smoothly, Sense would not load.

I have tried Original drivers + various libGLES_CM.dll files. sometimes I was able to get some games to load with super smooth graphics, but Sense would not load.

I have also tried using all original drivers and then just replacing librenderboy.dll with the one from TG01, by doing so games were again running smooth, but sense wont load.

Under the install folder of Flight Control there is also a libGLES_CM.dll file. when I copied it to the Windows folder Games were smooth, but sense loaded very very very slow and the OpenGL test was also running slow, but some games were actually running super smooth. this

At this point it seems that the Original dll's themselves will need to be modified to solve the problem.

Maybe someone can extract the drivers from none WWE ROM so we can test those?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
Hey guys, tomorrow (or thursday) i should be getting my ordered HD2, and is one of the units that were delayed because of faulty rom and rom bugs (so they said. many said that htc needed to fix some things on the rom). Now, even though i don.t hope for miracles, maybe this will be fixed on this units (yeah yeah, i know HTC and i know there are really slim chances for this to happen), anyway if i notice any differences on ROM and performance i will post here results and maybe .dll s .etc, whatever works so that we can fix this annoying problem (once again)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
I remember testing the Leo's driver on the Blackstone earlier and the same thing happened: Sense wouldn't load anymore and OpenGLES seemed broken.

Bottom line is: testing this on a MSM device won't work. But has anyone tried to install Driverpack 3? I think it'll do the same as what we've experienced until now, but we won't know until we try, right?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
does driver back.3 support OpenGL ES 2 ?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
No, since it was written for the MSM platform. But have you seen any OpenGL ES 2.0 on the Leo yet? I think we should first get OpenGL ES 1.X running on hardware accelleration and then worry about 2.0.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Roupette:
Electopia uses OpenGL ES 2.0 features and is apparently the most beautiful game on Windows Phones at the moment, so it would be sad that the HD2 could not run it any more.

But I agree that you should resolve one problem at a time.

Good luck anyway :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] usr782003:
Hi there,

I don't understand something,Where is the problem?

OpenGL ES 2.0 is not backwards compatible with OpenGL ES 1.x,HTC choose the way to build only driver for OpenGL 2.0 and did not implement compatibility with OpenGL 1.X.

The benchmark is for OpenGL ES 1.1 environment, then it's normal to have this result.

Why is so important to have compatibility with 1.X ? 2.0 is the present and the future for 3D applications embeded.

Is there OpenGL 2.0 benchmark to really test?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
Because 1.x is the only thing that's relevant at the moment, 2.0 isn't implemented anywhere except one demo game from Qualcomm AFAIK.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
I tried to install Driverpack3. Sense and games would not start at all. i guess it is not compatible.

By reading some of the posts above it seems like there is some misunderstanding and people think that HD2 came without drivers or hardware acceleration does not work.

Let me clarify and say that the HD2 indeed DOES have drivers and hardware acceleration does work and benchmarks are in the OK zone. the only thing that does not work correctly is the fluidity of the graphics in the games, and that i don't know why.

I am sure it is some small setting in the OEM driver that needs to be tweaked.

Can someone please try to get the drivers from a none WWE rom and post them here?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] nonoz1000:
I've the HD2 since today, with the original htc french rom.

I've installed this game in demo to try it, and it works fine. No problem, beautifull graphism, no lag, perfect.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Which game?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] :
Electopia the qualcomm open gl es 2.0 demo game.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
Hey guys, pretty good news, i got my HD2 today, installed some apps, skyfire resco exp etc. and NFS Undercover... and there is NO LAG !! at all!!! Played in landscape, have to mention that i didn.t install net cf 3.5.

Here are my infos:

OS version: 5.2.21864 (21864.5.0.81)

Rom Version: 1.43.405.1 (70124) WWE

i.ll be gone till later this afternoon but if there is anything else that i can help you with i will.

i will test other games to see how they do

EDIT: played in portrait and there is no lag there neither, all works flawlessly

EDIT2: tried prince of persia 3d runs like hell!!!!!, tower defence, smooth as a babys butt :))
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Jay_9090:
Can you send all your drivers in /windows directory for testing with your drivers ?

libEGL.dll

libGLES_CM.dll

libGLESv1_CM.dll

libGLESv2_CM.dll
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] p-kirill:
Hmm, interesting: what SDK was used to develop the Electopia game ?

Was it typical OGL ES 2.0 SDK or was it special kind of proprietary OGL implementation provided by Qualcomm ?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] kostasalfa:
Cant help with driver developement, but i am in for testing when you need it Neo..! ( i hard reset my phone tooo often, so it wont be much of a problem! )
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Interesting!

When you played NFS in portrait there was no choppy graphics...at all?

Tower defense has some lag on my phone so it is very interesting it is not on yours. We do not have the same ROM though. i have the eastern European WWE 1.43.479.0 (69828).

Can you please zip up your driver files so we can test them out?

libEGL.dll

libGLES_CM.dll

libGLESv1_CM.dll

libGLESv2_CM.dll

librenderboy.dll

Can you also try Flight Control ? this one is really choppy on my phone, but it will require you to install .NET3.5 to be able to run it.

Also maybe try Boom Blox? it is also very choppy.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] NeoS:
I think we need to establish some kind of plan here. Since we can all copy each others' files to each others' devices, we need to know what we're doing, and more importantly, what's BEEN DONE.

So: Like Daeron does on the Blackstone forums, we need to pick a benchmarking tool for OpenGL ES 1.X and 2.0 and log the benchmarks.

A difference in 2% isn't noteworthy, but 10% makes a difference. That's why it needs to be logged. Also, we need to log which files are changed from Stock WWE rom.

Anyone up for this?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
Nfs is fluent, no choppy graphics, i will try those games tomorrow as now i have to do night rounds (medical student) :( so guess i.ll be home tomorrow only, but i repeat, my device doesn.t seem to have any problem running old libgles games
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Thanks Neo. I will try to log benchmarks even though that unlike the HD we are not having benchmarks issues with this phone as it does perform 8-12 time faster than HD1 (benchmark wise) and it is still not able to play games that HD1 was able to. i think there is another problem, which might not be driver related, but ROM related. the graphics in the games are simply not fluid on some ROMS while as we now know, they are fluid on others.

I believe i have already tried the drivers from the WWE ROM snowblindd is using but it did not make any improvement and he does not seem to have lag.

I will ask snowblindd so post his drivers so i can test again. maybe HTC changed something on the last batch of devices.

Thanks. If you can zip up your drivers and post them for us i will be happy to test and will be looking for feedback on other games tomorrow.

On a side note, i emailed HTC and they are looking into this.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] tomksoft:
Just checked some games like NFS and FlightCommander. These games seem to be 98% fluent. I have rom WWE 1.43.405.1 (70124). I'd love to zip those files for you, but I get "Access denied" error when I try to copy them. Any suggestions how to do that?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
Maybe it would be worth trying the Leo drivers on TG01 or the Acer thing...

I can't imagine what 98% fluent is. Are they like fluent but with an occasional hiccup when you receive an SMS or something or are they kind of choppy sometimes?

I guess the problem is that with all these nuclear fusion powered CPU and GPU they must be more in the area of 300% fluent.

Re copying, try to do it right after a soft reset. If it doesn't work I think you'll need Resco Explorer or Total Commander.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Jay_9090:
Maybe, if a TG01/Acer Owner can test that ... :confused:
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] DMAND:
Got my HD2 today, even with sense running and backlight on the OpenGL test runs smooth with the ROM in my sig

Stress test runs smooth also

Test OpenGL ES by heliosdev@hotmail.com

Results (480x748 )

--------------------------------

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

101071 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

92667 kPixels/s

color blending

118069 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

83325 kPixels/s

OpengGL ES info

--------------------------------

Vendor

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Renderer

AMD Z430

Version

OpenGL ES-CM 1.1

Test results drop when backlight goes dim too
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Was it running 100% fluid? no stuttering?

Can you please try some of the games mentioned above and let us know if you see any lag?

Thank you.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] DMAND:
I think the first run had a slight stutter after that it was smooth, also forgot to switch wifi off so that caused stutter when trying to connect. Stress test was smooooth.

Will try and get some games loaded onto it.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] :
Here are the results of "test openGL" on my acer neotouch s200:

Test OpenGL ES by heliosdev@hotmail.com

Results

--------------------------------

alpha texture (128x256 rgba)

115957 kPixels/s

torus (3k triangles) one light

97132 kPixels/s

color blending

120141 kPixels/s

sub texture (128x128 15x15)

104486 kPixels/s

OpengGL ES info

--------------------------------

Vendor

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Renderer

AMD Z430

Version

OpenGL ES-CM 1.1
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
An interesting thing is that Acer benchmarks seem to be consistent and always the same to the last digit, while HD2 shows lots of different results.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] Nighthawk:
My HD2 arrives tomorrow and I'm happy to try and help out. I am also happy to assist in keeping track of the test details, I can make them public and viewable.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] OrionBG:
I have just made a little test! First I ran the OpenGL ES Test with Sense enabled and the test stutters a lot! Then I disabled Sense and thest was almost fluid and rhe results were atleast 5% better! I think that Sense is constantly hogging the Imageon GPU and this makes the test stutter! Another thing I',ve been thinking is that there is some kind of power management working here, because when on AC Power, the device gives me better test results!?! Can someone try and shere the findings?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Yes I have tried this as well. it does not fix the stuttering in the games though. they still behave the same with or without Sense running.

As for the OpenGL test, I also got better results with Sense off, but it was certainly far than fluid graphics.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
Hey guys,

Just came back and i.ve tested flight commander and indeed this one was choppy on my device (strange because those graphics don.t look too libgles-like) but it was 100%playable

I tested Assassins Creed HD, works flawlessly and fluid

I dind.t tested Boom Blox (crappy game anyway :) )

Tested Spiderman Toxic City (3d game runs soooo fast and fluid)

Tested CorePlayer works like a charm (it was version 1.3.2a built 6909) - now i didn.t run any actual benchmark on this one but i put on an .avi file which used to skip alot of frames even on the TP2 an ran perfectly on the hd2 (i.m sure you guys would have liked some numbers but i just didn.t have the time last night)

Tested Asphalt 4 HD, runs as it does on any other device (this game is not that fluid as it is - my opinion anyway)

I.m gonna test tower defence before i take a long sleep :) and see how it does (as many of you said that lags alot) and if i belive it.s such a big difference i will post the .dll so Neo can look into it (after that long sleep :) )

EDIT: Tower Defence won.t event start on my device :)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] vangrieg:
A little bit off-topic, but how do you play games like Assassin's Creed without buttons?
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
On-screen layout (HD version of the game, usually goes by with the name ,,omnia-version,,)
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
Thanks for the info man, however all the games you tested except Flight Commander and Tower Defense are not OpenGL games. they run purely on software and they also run fine on my device.

You are getting the same results as me it seems with OpenGL games.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] DMAND:
When you say flight commander runs choppy, how choppy?

I gave it a try and was smooth although the planes stuttered slightly when changing direction, NFS seemed to be smooth too.

TBH it's 2D stuff that seems to be not as smooth as I was expecting, eg. Resco brain train on my polaris with 3d drivers and chainfires gfxboost is smoooth.

The smoothest 2D I've ever seen to date is on my ageing Artemis, scrooling through manilla was like a hot knife through butter, and the programs list was so smooth it was blurred.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] clubtech:
This video of Flight Control on the HD shows how it should play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9mgjdjG50A

Note how smooth the planes are moving.

On our HD2 the planes are lagging. yes it is playable but it feels like you are playing the game on an old Tytn.....

For me the graphics are stuttering on all OpenGL games expect for NFS in landscape, Xtrakt and Electopia (not using the HTC drivers).

As for Tower Defense, if you look carefully on how the army vehicles are moving, you will notice that like the planes in Flight Control, they also stutter.

This Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htj8r1gWgc will show you OpenGL ES test with HD2 vs. HD.

Even though the HD is slower, look carefully and you will see that the images on the HD2 stutter while on the HD, they are slow, but running fairly smooth. and this is the problem i am seeing on my device and others on theirs.
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] warenbe:
just received my hd2 this evening

i tried NFS undercover wich was smooth in portrait

dunno how to run it in landscape...

xtrakt is also very smooth
[HD2 Windows Mobile 6.5 Themes and Apps] snowblindd:
I tested them mainly beacause users accused lag in some of them (nfs for example). I also tried a few emulators (scummvm, stratagus, and qemu with heroes of might and magic2 ) that run perfect.

Anyway, all the new HD games (mainly from gameloft) run smooth, and i was thinking that at this point the lack of proper opengl drivers doesn.t seem to affect HD2 usability that much-game wise (i mean it.s just flight commander and tower defence) and i am pretty sure that upcoming future games will be based on libgles 2.0

Well, all in all i.m really pleased with my hd2, and i.m sure it.s going to be better in time.

PS: There is a new 3d game Experiment 13, that is i think ported from Xperia x2, really beautiful graphics and gameplay, give it a try