yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Phones

FreeRunner and 1973 are different phones, model-2 and model-1 respectively.

I've tried fishing in there forums - permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.neo1973/1263 - maybe someone would hellp

PS: funny, they seems more interested in porting Android to moko-phone, than moko to android-phone :-) permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community/54391

PPS: whom should i write to lift that no-url limitation ?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] darkship:
Hello all again,

Please, is there anyway to run "Calendar" and other "Essential" Google aplications on our "NON UPDATED N19"?

If I browse for system/app I can see some apps there which I can not execute like:

SoundRecorder.apk

Term.apk

Why is that?

Thanks in advance!

Alex
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] 7maxx9:
install apps to sdcard

hello, somebody knows how zrootowac the phone and install apps on the sdcard (eg program AppsToSD_signed.zip). Then the phone has very little memory ....
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ydanila:
What plans about Donut? Have any news form Sciphone developers?

I tried to move apps to sd, but it can't really move where without update .img. May be it could be done together with donut?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
android-on-freerunner is project that has toolchains and config to get the code compiled in for armv4t cpu, which happens to be the same as on Sciphone N19. I bet Tiones (manufacturer of N19) or whoever was developing software for them, leveraged off 'android-on-freerunner' thus some bits in the system relate to freerunner, however, I've noticed that apart from CPU there isn't many similarities in hardware between the two, so most drivers to be carried over have to be the ones that are currently in the phone.

Using standard donut source code, and toolchains from android-on-freerunner, i managed to get 'donut' compiled. You get system image that doesn't work: update completes, phone begins to start, then hungs. Re-update to offical resolves.

I need to pull bits of the N19 specific stuff from update files (or direct from the phone) and tie them in a manner that will work (usb driver, video driver, keypad bindings, sound driver, bluetooth driver, wifi driver). Some of these are visible from init.rc files, other are refered to from other places.

At the same time, now that Android 2.1 has finally been released in a branded phone, instead of working on Donut, perhaps we should move efforts into 2.1 (aka eclair) instead.

Since we only have 128Mb of 'rom' to store files, we definately don't have space and definately must move /data partition on the SD card, so we'd have all 128mb for system.

'rootfs' (stuff that was in ramdisk.uimg file in the update) is where init.rc is stored and it needs to be updated in order to mount /data from another location. This also raises questions about installation procedure -- do we want to automate SD card repartitioning during first boot? These update images will "delete all user settings, and delete everything on your SD card, and make your SD card appear smaller" -- is that okay?

'busybox' that I uploaded on google code, has fdisk, so you can repartition and mount your ext3 partition now. (this binary was actually taken from freerunner project -- works like a charm) Alas remount doesn't happen by itself unless you change init.rc

Even if you "mount -o rw,remount -t rootfs / rootfs" its cool you can edit init.rc but this is not saved on the flash memory, it's just a 'ramdisk'.

So, what should be 'our' priorities?

1. workout how to update N19's for which 'official update' doesn't work. (up to now that was my priority, without much success)

2. move "/data" into sdcard (probably relatively easy, as long as we repackage ramdisk.uimg)

3. get donut (1.6) working

4. get eclair (2.1) working (i'd rather spend time on this, and skip donut)

5. fix adbd for 1.5 (my adb connection goes dead after 2-3 minutes -- with screen permanently on; have to switch on and off 'usb mass storage' to get it to come back, its awfully annoying when you're doing stuff to the phone)

Any thoughts?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] 7maxx9:
I think that:

2

4

3

5,1?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dvelev:
The Robot - 2.8 Inch Touchscreen Cellphone with Android OS - Sciphone N19?

Hello,

this phone from the link

http://www.chinavasion.com/product_...8-inch-touchscreen-cellphone-with-android-os/ is the same as Sciphone N19 with this difference:

Camera: 1.3-megapixel CMOS and

Memory:

- Internal - 512 MB

Build note:

Model Number: TA1.ANDROID.en
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ydanila:
Writing this post I thought that donut is 2.0 :)

Of course it would be better port Eclair. As to me - i have no experience of cross compiling and porting :(

Excepts /data to sdcard also could been moved /cache. Such string is commented in init.rc

If I have enough time - I'll try add custom init script to official update. In init.rc that will be placed in /system/etc for example.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
ydanila - pleazzze, do not overquote, it messes up reading!

on 3,4: does A1.5/1.6/2.1 use different Linux versions or this is completely orthogonal ?

i think most priority is to prove that we can make custom android firmware, and that means we can make any updates and have all the drivers needed (including updated Linux releases).

If kernel/driver issue is orthogonoal to Android version, then i'm for ditching 1.6 and focusing on 2.0 or 2.1 (dependent on their stability)

note: may it be that system requirements of A2.x are higher and it would be too slow on N19 to be of practical interest?

on 5: afaict it only hurts hackers, so it is completely your option how important it is to your work. none of non-hackers need it and none can estimate how hard it is. So you are the only person to decide of piority on that. Same goes for any other hacker.

on 1: that i would consider very important for the community as whole, but at the same time low priority for any hacker personally.

If personally you do have such phone in your hand and can play with it - then high priority, maybe top one.

If you do not have and hence you need to make guesses and rely to non-hacker owners to test them - that is low priority, it would be very inefficient spending of your time.

on 2: personally i'd better thought of moving some other part of system into SD card. I wish to be able to swap the card and/or put the card into computer / photocamera.

Some optional applications might disappear then - but you usually can run without them and you can double-install them on any number of SD-cards.

You cannot do it for /data, since there are very frequent changes (call history for example) that cannot be easily synced.

Fly-phone 2080 features about 768KB internal flash and 256MB t-flash card. I ended up storing all my wallpapers, ringtones and java-apps on the card, not internally. And it was not very painfull :-)
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
I bother they know a dime about hardware and firmware and their specs are probably quite inaccurate.

That is above 1.3 MPx. Their specs sheet is self-contradictioning.

External: i wonder if N19 comes bundled with SD and how large ? However i open another shop and see dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11295 and 12670 and 33349 and 06534 - and it is from ten to dozen USd in difference and probably does not worth mentioning.

Internal: May it be, that they mixed up (and summed into total) internal flash and RAM. Again, that speaks how much they know about hardware.

where ???

Choose one. I cannot see how these lines can both be true at same time!
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
My guess is that the same linux kernel can be used for all android versions. Main repo of android source code doesn't include linux kernel, however, that's to be tested.

Main difference from 1.5 to 1.6 was large performance increase with daviklvm (java virtual machine). Most of the guts of android sit in there. I think 1.6 would run faster on our phone, but we are quite short with storage space. 2.1 definately can't fit in the flash memory, I haven't looked into it too much since it just came out on the actual phone -- my measure of whether it was stable enough was weather google (or one of the big guys) is selling it bundled with some hardware, and they just started it.

As you said, trouble with using SD card for internal storage is that things wouldn't work when the card is pulled out. /data is where settings go, and our installed applications (including some downloaded content, like ringtones and wallpapers). It is also used during first boot to unpack and setup a lot of stuff. So most of the 64Mb gets used up and we have some 10mb free to begin with.

Why don't you use usb mass storage if you frequently take the card out?

About the N19 that doesn't take official update: my phone works fine, and I agree with you its important to the community as a whole. So I don't have the freedom to experiment with it to find out what's wrong. By few other people have tried various things; it appears to have the same version of linux kernel, but different version of u-boot boot-loader...
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dvelev:
Sciphone N19

Hello,

i need original in files in /system/app folder before "market or another update":

I would be grateful if someone sent them.

Thanks
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
Then probably linux drivers issue is the thing in itself.

However i also heard a thing "android drivers". Guess sometimes it is just mistakenly named linux drivers, but for sometimes it shoud be some specific drivers, like x.org drivers are for long separate being from kernel (letting apart DRI/DRM news)

AFAIK Android graphics are based on framebuffer linux device, so probably graphic drivers of android is non-existent, but maybe there are some andoid drivers, tha are not linux drivers ? then driver issue may re-emerge.

Personally i see little reason to target 2.0 if 2.1 is no-go. And i wonder if sys reqs are very much different between 2.0 and 2.1 anyway.

Then guess only choice is to sort out applications between essential and extra. And then do something like Linux aternatives, automatical symlinks with perhaps semi-automatical sync of downloaded apps between SD-cards, with aid of computer. Same for /data. While call-history, contacts roster and so on are to be inside the phone (essential functionaity), downloaded apps and mp3 ringtones (hail midi, hail amr) are to be outside.

Because i need a content from the t-flash card :-) If you have computer, and USB cables to both phones, then you can copy it from one to another. But if there is no PC, or no cable at hands ? Or i have to quickly end someone large sd card (i soon purchased 2gb t-flash instead of 256 mb) ? It is a tradeoff, either sacrifice sd-slot as storage extending, or sacrifice extra functionality as sometimes unavailable. Most time you would choose 1st option, but sometimes 2nd one is also of use.

Then perhaps they'd no way but resort to commnities like OpenMoko/Maemo, llike OpenWRT/DD-WRT and such. Those that have experience hacking u-boot no matter what firmware it is to load.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alexmulo:
Hi

I have some question, I bought a N19 and I use it today.

I can't see a screen rotation, and I want ask if the phone has it.

Then I found on this website http://code.google.com/p/custom-android-sciphone-n19/ an official update but I don't know what really it has, do you know it?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
it was discussed from page 4 message #38

no one knows even if you phone can be updated at all
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
dvelev posted it, it came from mysciphone.com. The update has Market application so you get android market access.. "About phone" at the bottom, if it has version dated september 2009, the update probably won't work. If its dated 1st of Dec 2009, it probably will work, as long as you use normal SD card, not the HD version.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alexmulo:
I have been do it and fortunelly it's work.

I saw that Sciphone N19 has no auto screen rotation, is there any software or package to do thin manually? I ask this because I saw that some software in the phone had this function.

thanks a lot for the information

ps: where had Mysciphone this update released?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
i think it was unofficially leaked, since they claim there is no update for n19.

I can't find app for screen rotation.. If you manage to update your phone with 'official' update you'll get access to Market and you can dig around there. I didn't find it.

(google apps update is not for market access, it updates versions of those bits, and enables calendar and contact list synchronization, but it works only if you already did 'official' update to your phone)
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Kaller:
ES File managger app include the screen rotation option,works fine.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] taxxo:
I'm unlucky enough to have an n19 that doesn't accept the update.

I tried commenting out the "Flash system image(Yaffs1 format)" section of updata.txt and the update succeeded so that must be where the problem is.

I also tried flashing system.img from android-on-freerunner (which was much smaller) and that completed ok.

Maybe the partition sizes are different on the earlier units?

Could somebody with each version of the phone post the results of "cat /proc/mtd" so we can compare them?

Unfortunately after all of my experimenting, my phone is no longer getting past the initial "sciphone & android logo" screen so tomorrow I can see if I can get a uboot prompt over usb...just have to install linux on an old laptop first.

I've also opened mine up (because my sdcard slot broke and won't keep the damned card in) so if anyone wants pics I can take some. I wouldn't mind figuring out the serial port points then maybe I could add a gps or accelerometer.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
Hi

I have been reading this thread since 2 days ago. I have a Sciphone N19 and I have been able to update. (Thanks a lot for your work, xulture) I will keep reading and helping all I can.

Sorry for my engligh, it is not my native language.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
This is great news!

Ok the reason your phone can't start now is because it has 'system' from freerunner without N19's display drivers, so it can't actually show what's doing. Also N19's adb driver depends on the script from /system to run, so you don't get that access either. However, knowing that file size is a problem opens more room for experimenting.

What size was the image from freerunner that actually worked? I should be able to repackage 'official' update into a smaller one to get it done.

/proc/mtd changed on my phone pre-update and post-update.

Before the update it was identical to what dvelev had (his phone doesn't update).

Before update:

dev: size erasesize name

mtd0: 00100000 00004000 "Bootloader"

mtd1: 00200000 00004000 "Kernel"

mtd2: 00100000 00004000 "initramfs"

mtd3: 03c00000 00004000 "system"

mtd4: 04000000 00004000 "userdata"

After update:

dev: size erasesize name

mtd0: 00100000 00004000 "Bootloader"

mtd1: 00200000 00004000 "Kernel"

mtd2: 00100000 00004000 "initramfs"

mtd3: 04600000 00004000 "system"

mtd4: 03600000 00004000 "userdata"

system got bigger, userdata got smaller. "updata.txt" actually has those parameters -- it erases everything except Bootloader. So your update already replaced Kernel and initramfs with the new version, broke system with freerunner's image, and left userdata whiped clean (as it is before the first power-on).

Do you mind trying with official system.img.yaffs1, but trim the file to a smaller file -- if you crop the stuff off the end of the file, the update will load most of the files correctly, one corrupted, and remaining files will just not be there. Structure of yaffs1 is quite stimple.

I wonder what sort of hard limit are we dealing with. Obviously the original file is less than 64Mb (62.1). If you have the time, do you mind chopping it down to 61mb, then 60mb, then 59mb etc until the update actually works? (split command in linux or cygwin, not sure of win equivalent)

In the meantime I'll try put up a tiny version that has all non-app stuff, and a minimum of apps to get the phone rebooting. Its easy to adb push remaining apps after the phone starts for the first time.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
Hello

I have been "playing" with the adb tool. I have "installed" the GoogleApps from http://code.google.com/p/custom-android-sciphone-n19/ but now I have a problem.

I get an error on the process android.process.acore and I can't call or receive calls and view my contacts. I think the problem is the Contacts.apk or GoogleContactsProvider.apk but I don't know. What can I do? Have anybody the original apps? Thanks!

Edit: The process android.process.phone crashes too :S
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
you have to do factory reset after that update :-( ignore all the warnings, go to settings / sd card & phone storage / factory data reset
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
Factory reset didn't work. I didn't delete my apps. The phone restarted and it's equals than before. Maybe the problem is that the .bat program deleted my "contactsprovider.apk" and the GoogleContactsProvider does not work. Where can I get the original ContactsProvider.apk? I did a Backup with MyBackupPro but now I can't restore it.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
that update only works if you flashed your phone with the official one that's already on the site.

uploaded original to http://code.google.com/p/custom-android-sciphone-n19/downloads/detail?name=ContactsProvider.apk

if this update screws up, you can always re-flash your phone back with the official update.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dvelev:
GoogleUpdate

Hello,

I had the same problem and lost a lot of time to restore the original files.

Can xulture done ".bat" file first place backup files before you replace them with those of the archiver "GoogleUpdate".

Or to mention that this update does not work with build the phone from 09/2009.

@Rafaesp check PM!
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
Yeah good idea.. I actually plan to remove that stuff altogether, once we figure out a way to update all phones, and instead have a proper flash update with the contents of it..

Just yesterday I changed the page about it that says it only works if official update has been completed.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
Thanks dvlev and xulture. I solved that by doing the official update again.

But I still don't knowing why the error was. First I did official update and then I pushed the apps with adb.

I keep reading.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
i wonder why can't we switch to yaffs2, llike openmoko does ?

it seems it has more software support, than yaffs1.

will kernel driver be much bigger for it ? Or less debugged on ARM ?

i know, it is not my phone, but...

instead of looking how to squeeze updates into that hardlimit, perhaps it woud be better to update u-boot, so that non-updatabel phone would be easily convertded to update-able ?

PS: woud be funny if that expected hardlimit in older u-boot was the reason for SciPhone to withhold the update from oficia releasing ?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ydanila:
Could anyone create a VM in QEMU that would be used to test new image builds? I know that is powerful thing, but have no idea how to do this. Such method would be more comfortable.

And that about customizing official firmware. I'll changejust one file - init.rc. But I haven't enough time to tests.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
one should then create QEMU emulators for all the chips in the phone. Not the processor only, but also video, GSM-module, bluetooth, etc

Quite hard task.

Compare to VirtualBox/VmWare/VirtualPC - they share CPU, but simulate it's own videocard, hard disk, network card, sound card, etc, not those that are really installed in your PC
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
from what i've seen, kernel for N19 is already built to support both yaffs1 and yaffs2. I'm not sure if the type of flash that's on N19 will support yaffs2. yaffs1 operates in 512 byte blocks, yaffs2 in 16byte blocks, therefore large number of small files will fit better in yaffs2. As flash memory ages, bad areas are relocated, and I think yaffs2 makes overall memory 'last' longer. But we just need someone to test if it works.

Ideally, we'd rip out u-boot from phones where it works, and flash u-boot into phones that don't work. There is only one problem -- what happens if flash fails -- permanently bricked phone that can never do anything else. *sigh* I'd like to stay away from changing u-boot until we figure out how to use serial port to pump the code into flash without running u-boot..
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
i see it as too much work, and none of us work for the phone manufacturer ;-) in the meantime we have the actual device to test if things work or not...
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ydanila:
I think there is no necessity to emulate whole phone. We need: CPU, memory controller, flash and video. All other devices just fail to load modules at boot, but boot process will anyway continue.

Such method will allow to test flashing and booting.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gymp:
Hey All,

Love the work so far .. got my sciphone and updated it with all the fixes on the google page and loving it!. But I have a n00b android questions for it.

In other roms they have the apps2sdcard feature where you can format up your sdcard and simlink the dirs across so you can fit more apps.

Is there something in these custom roms that allows this or can we edit init.rc .conf files etc.. and do it with the n19 rom ?

Also under the battery there are pads that look like they may have been there for testing. Anybody have a pinout for the chip or pulled their phone apart possibily we could use them for dumping the rom and reflashing rather than a recovery image.

Let me know what may be feasible if anything.

Thanks

Gymp
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xulture:
apps2sdcard will come soon-ish :-) probably next week some time. (with the first version of full 'custom' rom that combines the official and upgraded apps). after that we'll move efforts into building 2.1 for sciphone.

due to its size, 2.1 will make apps2sdcard mandatory -- eg we won't use internal storage at all for files in /data, thus creating requirement that sd card cannot be replaced while the phone is turned on. but that will be the price to pay if you want to have 2.1 on it.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
Thanks xulture!

Tell us how can we help you (Not too difficult :P)
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] annoynimouse:
hope it will change later

something like Linux alternatives would allow to symlink some /data internally and some on sd

yet 1st goal is to make 2.1 running, then is time to optimize it :-)

hope you would not brick it, pal!
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alexmulo:
factory reset

Hi

yesterday I made the factory reset of my Sciphone N19, but the phone stays still with all programs that I downloaded and old settings.

why?

can someone help me?

thanks
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
Do you have done the official update?
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alexmulo:
yes I done the official update to add android market
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Rafaesp:
I had the same problem after do the update. But I updated again and it was like after update the first time.
[G1 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alexmulo:
I hope Sciphone makes a better update to improve the N19, actually there are many problems, for example the crash of barcode scanner.