yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] vadyarik:
ROM upgrade(WM6.5) for HTC Touch Diamond2

Release Date: 2009-11-04

RUU_Topaz_S_hTC_Asia_WWE_2.17.707.1_Radio_Sign_Topaz_61.44tc.25.32_4.49.25.17_Ship.exe

http://www.htc.com/sea/SupportViewNews.aspx?dl_id=737&news_id=319
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] belumada:
Official WM 6.5 Asia

Thanks for the update. It's strange though that HTC doesn't update the support feed I subscribed to.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] ahyeh:
has anyone tried the official upgrade for WM 6.5 for SE Asia? how is it? too busy with my exams to install in my phone now..
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] belumada:
Just flashed it this morning. So far so good. Overall speed is almost the same as that in wm 6.1 but I like the new manila, scroll bar and lock screen:D
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] rexypow:
Nov 04, 2009 Download link

hope this link worked for you guys:

RUU_Topaz_S_hTC_Asia_WWE_2.17.707.1_Radio_Sign_Topaz_61.44tc.25.32_4.49.25.17_Ship

http://203.73.25.118/download/RomCo..._Sign_Topaz_61.44tc.25.32_4.49.25.17_Ship.exe
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Tom Lenferink:
WM 6.5 NL / Dutch is out and ready to download

http://www.htc.com/nl/SupportDownload.aspx?p_id=249&cat=2&dl_id=733
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Tom Lenferink:
To install other language you need to HardSPL.

You don't have to wait anymore:

http://www.htc.com/nl/SupportDownload.aspx?p_id=249&cat=2&dl_id=733
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] belumada:
Alarm Issue

Hi guys, is there anybody facing an alarm issue with the official wm 6.5 ROM?

After the alarm has finished ringing, then the reminder sound immediately follows. Actually, I also experienced this issue when I cook and flash wm 6.5 com2 myself. So, I believe this is a bug from Microsoft.

I thought HTC would fix this bug before releasing the ROM but unfortunately they didn't.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] bobatomix:
very nice

Thanks dude :)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] irritinus:
Upgrading Issue dutch 6.5 ROM

I tried to upgrade my TD2 with the new dutch 6.5 ROM, but is stops every time I try at 18%. Tried to upgrade from a Windows 7 pc and a Windows 2003 pc. Downloaded form the EU en US servers but all of them gave the same result.

I have a TD2 with serial number: HT95xxxx

Any body else with upgrading problems like mine?

Edit: Nevermind, found more people with the same issue. Going to flash it from SD.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] LikeNoOther1:
South Africa WWE version

Does anybody know wheter there will be a upgrade for South Africa WWE version.

My ROM: 1.29.421.0 (47382) WWE

Really want a new ROM. Don't know if I should wait or update to cooked Rom.

Never flashed my device before.

Any advise?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] phoenix2149:
Hi,

I updated today to the official 6.5 (dutch) ROM. (2.16.404.1)

I thought there was the possibility to add apps/contacts to the home screen beneath the time and agenda like on the HD2.

What version of manila/Sense is in this ROM, i can't seem to find the version number. That was in the settings tab on the original 6.1 ROM.

Still not possible to exclude folders from music tab. Does anybody know how to exclude the ring-tones?

Tnx.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] prokji:
Now is available ROM WWE EU version 2.16.479.1 /on site CZ , PL etc./:):):)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] mondilv:
Thanks a lot!

:p
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] gazric:
Which language supports?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] phoenix2149:
P.S.

I tried to find a way to show the (sense) weather and all-day events on the lock screen. Can someone put me in the right direction.

TNX
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] darkic:
...which is, finally, EastEuropean Rom!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] CandleOfThought:
Does this ROM have Facebook integration like the new Leo ROM?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] kings121:
were you able to get that spanish 6.5 rom?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] kings121:
if you are asking about the official ROMS i guess they all have face book and youtube integrated in them
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Free Man:
If I purchase the Australian version of the Diamond2, that supports the NextG 850 frequency, what official version of Windows Mobile 6.5 ROM can I use to upgrade it with????

Anyone know?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] bababrijesh:
win 6.5

hey cn neone tell me ne official rom of 6.5 for td2 in htc india site available?

sorry for bad eng....:)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] CandleOfThought:
Yes, I mean the official ROMs, but I'm asking about more than the Microsoft Facebook app that you can install anyway on any device... I'm talking about the feature that lets you link a contact to their Facebook ID and see their photos and information in the address book... is this purely a Leo feature or does it come on these ROMs?

Thanks!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
Available as well now on BeeGee's Topaz File Server.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
Yes it is included. It is used by HTC contacts, so that if I cook a ROM without facebook, the HTC contacts does not work anymore.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] phlfigna:
hI

Hi Tom can you please help me I brick my TD2 and I need to re flashed it with original stock rom wm6.1 I purchased it Hongkong and it is Hongkong-English version please help me thank you, my e-mail address is - phlfigna@yahoo.com
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] phoenix2149:
Hi,

I don't know if it is appropriate or impatient to refer to an earlier post because it is not answered and on an other page, so please feel free to comment if not so.

Does anyone have an answer for my question in post #240

Thanks
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] miro666:
Can somebody upload Official WM 6.5 ROM WWE EastEurope version 2.16.479.1 in TOPAIMG.NBH format ? I like flashing new ROMs from minicard and tried its.

Thanks

Regards
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
You can get the ROM from BeeGee's Topaz File Mirror or from other links. Open the .exe file with WinRAR. You will find a signedRUU.nbh file inside. Unzip just this file, rename it to TOPAIMG.nbh and you can flash from SD-Card.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] miro666:
Thank You BeeGee an Your speedy answer, make it, how you say.

BTW, I'v bookmarked your mirror site (googled "HTC TD2 ROM flashing") from first day when i have buying my "baby" (HTC TD2) ...Very useful, thanks.

Regards
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
I am always happy if I could help a little bit.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] belumada:
Flip Clock Bug

Hi guys anybody experiences this:

after some time using the device, when I went back to the home tab the position of the flip clock when it flipped was a bit displaced (but then it fixed itself immediately)

However, if I soft reset the device or reset htc sense or click the clock screen (to adjust the clock), then this issue is resolved. However, it will return again some time later after some usage.

Note that this is NOT the real screenshot, I edited the picture but the issue is similar

Thanks
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] gpap2004:
Many many thanks!!! Very useful post!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] misko903:
Eastern Europe 6.5 Official

http://sunnysoft.cz/download/HTC/ROM_Diamond2_HTC_WWE_EastEurope_2-16-479-1.zip
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Vladog1976:
I have the following message when I started the donloaded rom

RUU has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

I use XP SP 3 system with all possible updates

Any ideas?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
Extract .nbh file from the .exe file, rename it to TOPAIMG.nbh, copy it to your SD-card and flash from SD-card.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] popej:
There are 2 nbh files in this update: SPL.nbh and RUU_signed.nbh. Any idea what is the proper sequence to flash both from SD?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Pisca:
Should be Ruu_signed.nbh, by they way look at the size ;)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
The SPL.nbh is the SPLash screen, you can flash this as well if you like, but there is no need. RUU_signed.nbh is the WM 6.5 file.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] !Aman!:
SPL.nbh is NOT a splash screen. it is SPL+Radio which HTC use for upgrading.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
Another day I learned something.

Thank you !Aman!

Your 2.1 ROM is still running on my business Topaz.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] popej:
I'm guessing that without HSPL one should update SPL.nbh first. Anyone already tried?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Xaddict:
TD2 wm6.5 rom phone canvas

Can anyone tell me what the phone canvas is like in this rom?

Does it have the slider to protect buttons while in call?

Am looking for a solution to help a friend with no experirnce in flashing.

She has problems with random buttons being pushed during calls.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] gianton:
Yes it does have the slider curtain.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Xaddict:
Slider

Thanks for that
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] georgeono:
So ... waited about 3 weeks for the WWE release of WM 6.5. On htc.com site it still says that this software is not for my device. Had some pretty hard weeks and couldn't read the forums. My apologies if this question has been answered before. Thanks in advance!!!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] harry_ss:
Sorry for being a complete Noob here. But if this is official Wm6.5 release, then why cant I see this in HTC Site under Support section.

Im on standard ROm 6.1 & would like to upgrade it to 6.5, but I don't want to Install other ROM's. Please advise
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
If you do not find it on the HTC support page for your country, then the WM6.5 is not yet released for your country.

But your Diamond2 might be for another region anyway. Mine has a serial number for East Europe, but I bought it from a Japanese website.

Check your serial number in this thread, if it is for a different region, try to get your original HTC ROM for this region from HTC support.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] MadBastard:
with what radio come ger wm 6.5 o2 rom??
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
It is the 4.49.25.17 Radio ROM version
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] mortenpe:
..im trying to run the Norwegian version of the official 6.5 ROM (image 2.16.409.1) , and im NOT able to flash it.

Its stuck at either 10% or 18%, and it just times out. This is by using CustomRUU.exe, i have also tried from Storage Card (formatted with FAT32) putting TOPAIMG.nbh on the root of the card but the white screen just flashes by..

The phone is HSPL 1.83 and i've been running monthly flashes from Energy for a long time (so flashing works from cooked ROMS).

Anything special since this is an official ROM?

I tried to run the official 6.1 Norwegian ROM, and that works OK also.

Anyone??
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] nohctis:
my upgrade stops and encountered an error.. then it always shows the following on the bootloader screen..

TOPA100 32M

SPL-1.83.0000

MicroP-Topaz (LED) v10

TURBO HW/TURBO SW

TP MFG DATA

506,564 177,897

178,217 841,213

854,890 Calibrated

Upgrade ROM code error

Please try again

i want to make it Hard-SPL but it requires my device to be synced in the PC.. but that screen is the one always showing.. i can't even hard reset the device.

any idea how can i bring it back to normal?

sorry for being noob.. this is my first day in Topaz world.. :(

thanks
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] x3060:
Hold VolDown when turning the device ON.

you will get the boot loader

Install your old rom. (or any old rom)

update the spl

now install the new ROM
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] nohctis:
when i do that, that error is the one showing up.. when i try to reflash a rom, an error is showing regarding connection error.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] nohctis:
at last!!!! i was able to bring it back to normal.. thanks to mtty.. luckily i came from diamond 1.. :p

thanks..
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] skareb:
Official East European WWE ROM

I just recorded how the OFFICIAL EAST EUROPEAN ROM works on my HTC TOUCH DIAMOND2 :)

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlRpUaHzvK4
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] tlsty:
Hi,

sorry for such stupid questions (I am total freshmen to the WM OS):

1. could you please provide me with the link where I can download that official ROM with WM65 for Eastern Europe (slovak language preferred)

2. is it ok to simply use a ROM, which is on the official HTC website and after inputting the SN it was recognized as not suitable phone for that ROM?

THX
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] codhunter:
Please excuse my ignorance, but...

If i upgrade my Touch Diamond2 with the Official Win Mobile 6.5 rom, will the preinstalled games etc that came on the phone still be available? Everything i have added myself has been backed up with microsoft myphone or to my PC, but if i lose bubble breaker my missus will go spare!!!!!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] praveents:
windows mobile 6.5 update for india now available

The much awaited update for Windows mobile 6.5 for topaz India is now released. u can download from following link http://www.htc.com/in/SupportViewNews.aspx?dl_id=803&news_id=403
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
Can you download it and share it somewhere for the people without matching serial number for India?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
Bubble Breaker will be there again
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] tlsty:
hi,

it says "Sorry, this software download is not suitable for your device."

if somebody uploads it somewhere i can download it and I actually upload it into my HTC-D2, will it work?

i have this:

ROM: 1.39.479.2 (49068) WWE

Radio: 3.43.25.19

ExPkg: 479.1484.11868.23560

THX!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] g3n1u3:
when will the romanian language be available?

thx a lot

you're the best
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] CodeScripted:
Issues with 6.5?

Sorry if I am in the wrong place, but wanted to ask if anyone else is is having any issues with the official rom.

1) Calls are dropping after 5 minutes (is there a new radio available?).

2) Clogging up (significantly slow). Feels like I need to soft reset every 2 days. I understand the cpu is slow in topaz, but wm6.5 was something HTC promised will be given to topaz for free.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] MDAJoel:
This looks wonderfull and it works great! But one question: I saw a movie on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAMUQPXdHmI) and I was wondering how I can create those favorite apps in the bottem of the todayscreen. It seems that I have to download manilla 2.5?

Tnx!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
You need to flash a ROM with Manila 2.5. It cannot be installed.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] DaveNavy:
Awesome

Thank You I needed this
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] rati:
Hello , is there any official windows mobile 6.5 for topaz , that have the weather on the today screen like HD2 (but must be in english)? i put this question , because i updated my phone to wm 6.5 UK version and it doesnt have that weather , and a friend of mine have on his topaz the O2 Germany official wm 6.5 and the weather 'bulb' is on today screen , with nice animations , like on HD2 ...

the problem is that i want it in english

ty very much
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] marioparty:
If i downloaded an english language rom for now, can i later update to the rom for another language or install a rom for another language ?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] PMoto:
You better read this here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=584549

I guess that is your problem, right? ;)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] jaskel1:
what version does Australia come under??

Also id voice command included with the official rom? I really miss this software.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] janneman22:
Not all official WM6.5:p
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] BeeGee_Tokyo:
If you have some links, please share them.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] fanxt:
I need a chinese language version,but not in list. :(
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] YNWA:
Greek?

any new Greek ELL upgrade?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] WasStoNed:
Just found and installed this

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=556614

it has made messaging so much nicer (back to how it was pre-manila 2.5)

I will stick with this ROM now :)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] miro666:
Yes, but after that , you have not MMS...only SMS

Regards
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] plapic:
The official rom is 2.17.710.2 but you can also use 2.53.707.4 but that adds extra Pinyin to keyboard.

Install Microsoft Voice Command 1.6.21725 from cab file as this is not part of stock rom.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Superman_1122:
After installing the Win Mobile 6.5 ROM, my ringtone does not sound when receiving a call and the SMS alert msg tone does not sound 100% of the time - Is there a fix for these two bugs?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] mobilen:
My TD2 has been manifactured in Czech Republic, sold in Bulgaria by a Greek company.

I cannot download the 2.53.xxx from the HTC Europe site because it won't accept my serial number.

Can I install the official ROM version 2.53.xxx on a Czech made TD2 as HTC support stated that I need to download the ROM version 2.16.479.1 from the Czech HTC support site?

I found some serials so I can download the 2.53.xxx ROM from the HTC Europe site, but should I use WWE serial or ?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] PMoto:
Remember... to upgrade with other than the official supported, you must hardSpl first !!!

I don't know witch is available in the Cz htc site. If you try via the htc support site, use only your serial, in order to get the supported upgrade.

If you don't get ant 2.53 official upgrade to your phone, you may enter a WWE serial - but remember the hardSpl procedure before install.

Is it clear now? I hope so.

PMoto
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] vipibox:
How To Downgrade To WM6.1 Official After Install This Rom?

Topza Is Successive Reset After Downgrade To WM6.1 Official.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] tlsty:
What is your reason to do so?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] emx_o:
thanks a lot :)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] TheMafioso:
Are these roms 100% official???

Not need hard spl for install them?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] opensea:
No need to hspl cuz Its official.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] bukito1:
thanks ......

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] opensea:
I'm having problem with download. It's stuck at 32% :(

Any chance for a mirror?

Edit: Resuming now. No need for a mirror. (for now:D) :D
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] hk09:
Will english version rom work on the UK version topaz ?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] alirezaircn:
i had official 6.1 on my topaz and when trying to upgrade i receive this error:

Error 294: INVALID VENDOR ID

what's wrong?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] vconcept:
Thanks for your great contribution !

Do you plan to provide us the link for the French Official Rom ?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] JHonDr:
After a very long instal it's running now. Look al right. Lets wait a day or two to confirm or to reject.

Thanks
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] !Aman!:
install HSPL first
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] alirezaircn:
Isn't it official? why need to hspl?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] !Aman!:
either it should have same Model ID and CID as your device OR you should have HSPL.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] alirezaircn:
how my topaz Model ID and CID are changed? Is it because I Hspl before when i tried unofficial roms?

Hspl 1.83 is needed?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] antiku01:
Hi all,

this WM 6.5 Official ROM is also working for the eastern europe ? i have bought my topaz fro vodafone here in romania.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] !Aman!:
you should have basic knowledge about flashing before proceeding.

yes
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] antiku01:
But is official, the official rom upgrades doesn't need Hard SPl. ....
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] !Aman!:
try to read and understand my comment above.

official ROM doesnt mean that you have the liberty to flash it to any device bought from any region of the world.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] duttythroy:
Thanks brom for posting the official reelase Topaz wm6.5 Roms, I bet a lot of happy topaz owners are happy now and will be going back to the cooked Roms again soon:)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] ArtieQ:
:D:D:D:D:D:D
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] alirezaircn:
Dutty, I believe you have best roms always. Can we dream a day you can cook same manila as Hero for Topaz? :)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] gianton:
lol! :):):)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] dicabkl:
A mirror somewhere?

I think that the big majority is looking for the WWE version, so if somebody downloaded already please upload on rapid or MU. Thanks!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] antiku01:
i have downloaded and tried to install the update for my topaz.

i get the errot invalid vendor id :)

then for romania - vodafone is not working
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] dicabkl:
I've done HSPL, so it should work. Waiting to download, but very slow.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] :
I want a portuguese ROM Please.... :)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] PhilipL:
Hi

Running the WWE version now and working great. Faster than any cooked ROM I have tried and I've found no annoying bugs so far.

There still seems to be an issue with text messages not sounding until you power on. Using Advanced Config and setting Battery and Power standby timeouts to 10 seconds seems to fix it. These had been increased from 1 second on the 6.1 ROMs to 5 seconds, but this isn't quite long enough.

Google maps is an older version so needed to update that to the latest.

Regards

Phil
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Thom4s:
Great rom works ok.

I had a problem while installing, it said 'connection error'. It always said the same whatever I tried untill I unzipped the .exe installer and used the installer inside.

Dunno of that's logical but anyways it flashed and it's like a whole new phone compared to 1.39!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] braulioleonardo:
Anyone can tell me where is the "owner information" in the settins -> all settins -> personal tab? it's gone?
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] IRREAL:
Nice sound dutty!
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] eil:
I need that too to activate G-Alarm :confused:
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] eil:
From G-Alarm web site:

Q: I can't find my owner name.

A: On some new devices - especially HTC devices with Windows Mobile 6.5 - the owner information settings are hidden by default. Please use a registry editor (e.g. the free "PHM Registry Editor") and navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlPanel\Owner. You should find a key called "Hide". Please change its value from "1" to "0" and restart your device. Now you should be able to find the owner settings.
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] Tureluur:
Nice and clean

Flashed it. Running it now. It's as expected. Good and very, very close to TESS 3.7 minor some, to me, annoyances (autolock, ActiveSync/Opera active in task list, My Location not working, etc.) However, TESS was by far my favorite ROM. So: well done, !Aman!:)
[Touch Diamond2, Pure ROM Development] sabbourh:
what about middle east roms

does anyone have a clue on when any of these roms are going to be avilable for the middle east ( arabic users)

touch pro2 and diamond2 up till now didn't get any updated 6.5 rom and htc support is completely clueless

help any one

any info will be usefull