yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] lovingHDTV:
I use the Sennheiser CX300-B ear buds and can definitely hear background hiss. I can hear it when I initially plug them in then, if I don't do anything the hiss goes away until it plays something. Sounds like when the amp turns on then I hear the hiss. I hear it for music, voice prompts everything. You can hear the same thing by pausing the music and you will hear a hiss for a couple seconds, then it goes away.

When I have music playing I cannot hear it, but do hear it during the quiet times of the song.

I've found this to be true with these earbuds for pretty much any player I use that is not dedicated to audio only. I always figured they just do not spend the $$ to put in good audio capabilities in the multi-use devices.

dave
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cameraddict:
If I listen to the FM radio I can definitely hear interference, usually listening to NPR (talk radio). Though not sure if it is slightly less then perfect reception or an actual sound issue. I feel as though the mini usb connector is less then ideal. It has a lot of wiggle. Wonder if that is part of the problem.

This is with the factory ear buds.. have yet to really listen to music on it, or with good ear buds.. or through my car stereo(where I usually listen to music with my phone)

OK, after typing all that I guess I am not sure if mine has this problem! LOL But I will leave this post here so I can update it after I use the sound output more.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dezoris:
I think it is laughable to use the word audiophile and earbuds in the same sentence.

Your best headphones for monitoring are over the ear

Don't have any issues with my Verizon unit. I have hooked it up directly to RXV3800, Sennheiser HD380, and M-Audio DSM2 and hear nothing I have not heard with other MP3 players including the ipod.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] mutti_wilson:
I noticed my Verizon TP2 had flatter sound than my mp3 player with the same phones, but after a little EQ adjustment in Nitrogen, they sound just fine.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] oldpueblo:
You guys have way too much time on your hands to complain about those things. :p
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
I find it's laughable that you don't know what you're talking about.

My earbuds are every bit as good as your headphones, and earbuds exist (like the UE11) that obliterate even the best studio monitors in detail, frequency response, linearity, immediacy, transient resoponse, etc. In fact, they obliterate studio monitors in literally everything MAYBE soundstaging and impact.

www.ultimateears.com

Besides, you completely missed the entire point of the thread by saying "Nope, everything good driving my low sensitivity headphones!"

For the umpteenth time, you will not be able to hear this noise with low sensitivity headphones (as I confirmed with my DT770's). This problem only relates to driving high sensitivity cans.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
This confirms what I was saying. The sensitivity of your earbuds is 112db, which is far higher than the other posters 100ish range.

It would appear that this might not just be a defective phone that I have, and that it could actually be a more widespread problem.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] solsearch:
Except that he claims to hear it on several devices, not just this phone. Also he claims to hear it only during the quiet parts, not during actual sound reproduction, whilst you hear it at all times...

It could be the adapter, a faulty phone, or just a phone not designed for high-end hedphones.

Good luck with this. I love high quality headphones but use bluetooth to listen to music (yes, I hear the difference, but when I have cables they always get wonky and stop working properly).

Now if the phone had KLEER technology I'd happily go for that :p
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] headshok:
This sounds more like thread on bragging about your super duper headphones than anything to do with the TP2.

But maybe they arent so super duper if cheaper ones sound better.

Get past it, if you want a dedicated music player that lets you become immersed in 1024bit crystal clear audio go get whatever that is.

If you want a music player that sounds pretty damn good, can also take phone calls, browse the web, manage your schedule, send/receive emails and txt, take pictures, go buy a cheaper set of headphones.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] gpager1:
why use expensive earpiece

why use all that fancy stuff .. can you really hear a difference? whats wrong with the set of stock headsets that come in the box with the phone? :)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] solsearch:
You CAN hear the difference. Even on cheaper headphones but with good specs (hard to find but they do appear every once in a while). And it IS preferable to have just one device. It isn't too much to hope for. Maybe too much to expect (depends on who you ask really).

The OP was making an observation with slight but realistic criticism. He or she doesn't deserve to be flamed for it.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] oldpueblo:
A more accurate title would be "iphone has better sound quality" or something. "Beating the TP2" is a broad statement. An "audiophile" having unrealistic expectations for a phone in only one area that many would consider the least important is nowhere near grounds for the iphone being better. :p
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] barneypooch:
Hi computerpro,

I've been using Core for video, with no noise issues at all. Not tried the HTC player because SPB Shell and TouchFlo won't play nice.

As to background hiss, the only time i hear any is when the original recording was made in analogue. (Using both WMP and Coreplayer).

One curious thing I've noticed: when pausing a music track, there is suddenly quite a loud hissing, which lasts for a second and then stops. But that same hiss is not there during quiet poassages of classical music.

I really think you have a bad unit.

And what's the oil-slick problem? Something new for me to worry about :)

PS: I've tried all six sets of phones I had lying around - no issues there either.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] barneypooch:
I shouldn't take the troll-bait but...

Anybody claiming that earbuds can't be audiophile quality clearly hasn't heard a really good pair. I regularly use mine in preference to my "real" cans, which btw, are Stax Lambda Pros. Sorry if that sounds like more hi-fi showing-off but I wanted to illustrate that I do know what high-end cans sound like.

And to the person who said that we shouldn't expect hi-fi from a phone - why not? The sound circuits in micro-electronics are remarkably similar, and the TP2 most definitely delivers the goods.

computerpro's question wasn't a whine about the sound fidelity, it was about extraneous distortion and other artifacts that simply shouldn't be there.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Protonus:
Reposting my reply from the same thread you made on PPC geeks:

1.) What program are you playing music in?

2.) What program are you playing video in? What kind of video?

3.) Are you using an external amp with the phone? If you're an audiophile I'd expect you would be.

4.) Do you have wi-fi or bluetooth enabled or in use during this testing? Both generate significant RF which could be affecting the circuitry of an unshielded offboard amp.

I have tested MP3 audio in CorePlayer and WMP and found no outside noise. I tested video in the same programs that was converted using the HD video converter on the PC from a 720 x264 source, and again, no external noise. I actually did have Wi-Fi and BT on in my tests too, though I wasn't actively sending data. This is with modified JVC Marshmellow 1st gen canal phones. Before you get high and mighty if you're not familiar with these canal phones and/or canal phones in general, look 'em up. But for the money they are some of if not the best portable listening 'phones around per $. They are very sensitive (as are most canal phones), and being that they are foam isolated canal phones they block a tremendous amount of outside noise resulting in a very isolated listening experience, in short if there was noise, I'd hear it on these I'm sure.

Now the thing with canal phones is due to their effective sensitivity I'm able to listen at much lower volumes then with other devices, so I'm wondering if with your big / fancy full size phones if you're overstressing the amp and clipping or picking up noise because of a higher volume setting and subsequently higher line voltages. Again if you're not using a external amp with nice phones you should be for that reason. I know that the audio output via the 3.5 is a little low and I'm sure that's why HTC included that "booster" app for those that like to go deaf. But even with my canal phones, with that booster app at stock settings, I'm listening at 100% volume in WMP and 50% system volume with plenty of volume...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
HTC album and Coreplayer.

HTC album and coreplayer

Nope, the Super.Fi Pro 5's don't benefit much from amping due to their sensitivity. I use a Melos amp in my home setup.

It happens regardless of whether they are enabled. Good thought though.

Don't know why I would get all high and mighty, but I am very familiar with your Marshmallows and they are actually extremely inefficient for canal phones (93db sensitivity rating). You definitely wouldn't hear the noise I'm describing on these.

I'm not using "big fancy headphones". In fact, the phone has no problem at all driving big over the ear phones like Beyerdynamic DT770's.

I AM using canal phones as I've said multiple times.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] felixm477:
why is it there always have to be extremists around here, its a phone aimed at the buisness market, you cant really complain because it doesnt work with your super swanky earbuds i mean really do some of you read what is being posted? i could care less about having .00002 more dB than the next guy or how this doesnt play better than an ipod with a phone slapped on to it. the tp2 does what its targeted to do and it does it pretty damn well thats all the complaints i have for it.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] jayr04:
Nothing wrong in wanting perfection ;)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] djsiva:
inside pics

Attached is a PDF I got from the FCC's website which contains the internal pictures of the 1900MHZ Rhodium500. You can see the internal electronics. :)

Well, the PDF was too large for me to attach so here's a link to it.

http://innobytetech.com/webpix/1900MHz TP2 FCC Internal Photos.pdf

Nate
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
Excuse me for expecting a $500 device with a 3.5mm headphone jack and a "music and videos" tab to actually work with headphones that aren't a piece of ****.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] iamrobk:
I use Etymotic Research HF5's on my Verizon TP2 and don't have ANY audio issues. The music sounds great, so I don't know what you're talking about with the background noise...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] djsiva:
sound quality

I'm not using anything special and they sound above average. I'm quite the audiophile too, I just haven't taken the time to pick up a great set of headphones for the new TP2. The specs on the in-ear buds I'm using now are:

Driver Units: 9mm Neodymium magnet

Frequency Response: 6Hz~23kHz

Impedance: 16ohms

Sensitivity: 106dB

Cord Length: 1.2m (Oxygen-Free Copper cable)

Nate
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
Can you watch a video with a lot of dialogue and report back?
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] RacerX10:
I like this advice best :)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] aragorn771:
Honestly, I've got no problems with the audio quality so much on my Sures or Bose. I do notice some songs seem to distort a little. I don't have an Audio Booster on my T-Mo version. As far as video, I convert them to HD Mp4 and watch them through HTC Album and it's astonishingly good...I have Ipod/Iphone friends who see it and wish their video was as good. I use Xilisoft to convert it.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] headshok:
This thread is just silly, its not the TP2's fault that your headphones are too sensitive for it.

You are listening to compressed music and HIGHLY compressed audio on the video tracks with headphones that cost more than the phone does (well through Verizon)...

While I understand your frustration that the TP causes those headphones to sound worse than cheaper ones, but there is really nothing you can do about it if your phone is not defective...

I tried my dads Bose QuietComfort 15's with no issue mp3, divx, youtube, I tried my brothers high end over the ears, and his in ears too (forget what they are, but he's a crazy audiophile), I havent heard the noise on any...

I hate apple to, and I must say before the TP2 I was wishing that my ipod touch was a iphone... Now it just sits on my desk with a dead battery.

I donno, I guess if you bought the TP2 and expect flawless audio you were misguided. Nowhere in the advertisements did it suggest superior sound quality. However, for audio quality not being a major selling point, I think it does VERY well. And is on par with the ipod, maybe not with your 119db canal phones, but with everything I had at my disposal it did.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] felixm477:
well most phones these days are 500 unlocked without evein being pocket pc's. its like superman complaining he cant enjoy his car radio because his super hearing is picking up a conversation in the subway down below. it beats the iphone as far as where its target user goes. to lose to the iphone based on the audio you would have to say this about the LG Chocolate or w850 or any other phone designed as a music playing phone.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] mantici:
Get a Zune

Convergence devices are never the best. . . point to make. . . the iphone sucks as a business tool and as a camera.

A camera sucks as a gps device

a phone sucks as a . . . get the point. . .

the idea is to have a little of everything with you at all times. That being said, the TP2 is perfect for that. . .

if you want high quality audio, get a Zune HD.

if you want a high quality picture. . . get a digital camera

if you want a GPS device that doesn't drain your battery on long trips. . . get a Garmin (not a tom tom .. . ew yuk)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] nonzenze:
It is simply impossible to place a DAC on a tiny motherboard crammed with radio equipment without electrical noise.

[ PS, I use bluetooth stereo 'phones with A2DP so that the DAC takes place far away from all that junk, sounds alright to my ear, but I'm definitely no audiophile. ]
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
Apple begs to differ.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Bundin:
People who have "expensive (usually high sensitivity) headphones" aren't expected to hook them up to non-dedicated players. You'd not hook up a $30 dvdplayer to your thousands of dollars amps when you want to listen to a CD either, right? As a (self-described) "something of an audiophile", you sure made a weird choice in mp3 player...

As said several times in this topic: the TP2 isn't intended for high quality sound playback (or high quality picture taking for that matter). It's primarily marketed as a communication device, aimed at the business market. While it does have decent multimedia capabilities, that's not the niche it's marketed in. I think it's a tad naive to take one look at the price tag and expect this or that feature...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] whtrbt7:
Wow, you guys sure are funny. I remember having this chat already somewhere in the last 5 years. The thing is, you need Mortplayer or an FLAC player on the TP2 in order to get good quality sound output in the first place. Second thing you need is a postamp/EF dampener in order to shield and post-process your sound. Carrying both the TP2 and a postamp pretty much is about 1.5x the weight but you'll get really great quality sound. If you're a real audiophile, you wouldn't buy an iPhone, or a TP2. Out of the 2, the TP2 is more meant for the audiophile since you can have FLAC playback. If you are hell bent at having a phone be an audiophile's wetdream, you would have the equipment I listed above and also in-ear reference equipment such as the ETYs, Shures, or UEs.

After a while, I stopped using FLACs since it was a pain to pop them on the TP2 and then use all the extras. Now, since I know I don't need audiophile equipment on the go, I use an A2DP headset and just use AVRCP on the headset to control the music. If you're in the music/sound industry, it's a different story but for general listening purposes, both the TP2 and iPhone do just about the same. I do however think that the iPhone is awesome for anyone that has iTunes as their main Music DB. I just don't like a lot of the business phone aspects of the iPhone.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] dweidman:
Is there a reason you are ignoring the others with earphones at or above your "level" when they say things are fine?

How many TP2's have you tried? I am guessing... one?

For someone with enough time to make two threads and ***** about how their phone isn't *amazing* for audio... (feigned shock)

If this were really important to you - you would fix it. Moreover - if this was soooooo important to you in the first place - why did you settle on the first TP2 you received?

Oh yeah... it's easier to *****. Got it.

-D
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] RobTsintas:
Sometimes I'm really glad that I don't have particularly good hearing.

Any old mp3/wma at (almost) any bitrate on any player is good for me! :p
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] DavidMc0:
My goodness, there are so many imbeciles here - so much bickering and almost zero constructive comments (other than whtrbt7's postamp recommendation).

The background noise is very noticeable on my Future Sonics FS1s that cost only about £25 or something, and if it's possible to get rid of it I'd do it, even if it doesn't annoy me that much as it is.

The noise is there whenever the phone is playing something, and is not dependent on volume but is the same all the time.

I'm no expert, but wondered if someone who has more knowledge than I could comment on the feasibility of noise cancelling software to reduce the background noise when the audio is in use? I guess this would require the noise to be exactly the same on each TP2, which it probably is, but I can't be sure as I only have 1.

So the software would need to have samples of the noise, then send an inverted version of that noise whenever there is sound being played to cancel it out.

Any thoughts on the feasibility of this? Sorry if it's a daft idea, but at least it's attempting to be constructive!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
Yes, because:

1. Nobody so far has headphones at or above my level (except for maybe one person who uses Shure E5C's, which are great but low sensitivity)

2. Only two people have even posted remotely sensitive headphones.

3. Only two or three people here are intelligent enough to realize that "sensitivity" is an electrical measurement and not a sound quality one. People posting saying everything is fine with headphones in the 100db range for sensitivity are completely missing the entire point of the thread - in the OP I already noted that the TP2 drives low sensitivity headphones just fine. So far the people with truly sensitive phones have noticed the background noise - it's not just me.

4. You're not one of those intelligent people.

5. Enlighten me - where am I supposed to find another Verizon TP2 to try? I've contacted them to get a replacement but I can't exactly walk into the store and try another one.

6. Finally, I'm not expecting the phone to be "amazing" for audio. I AM expecting the phone to not have electrical noise that is at competing sound volume with movie dialogue. This is a blatant flaw, and something that even a village idiot would be irritated by.

7. It's hysterical - people come in and flame me because they think I'm putting other people's headphones down when I say "They aren't as sensitive as mine", despite the fact that sensitivity has absolutely nothing to do with sound quality - a $25 pair of headphones that has 119db sensitivity will hear the noise too. It never ceases to amaze me how those who know the least are always the first to flame. A simple google will reveal what fools they are.

In short, most people here don't know their ass from their head when it comes to headphones. Comments like yours and "Oh, everything is great with my Bose headphones" only confirm that fact.

Sorry if I sound short, but it's tiring to be flamed due to your lack of knowledge.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
oops double post
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] whtrbt7:
OK, first Shure E5Cs are rated at 122db sensitivity and are my personal travel monitors which I connect to a real audio device. Even with a shielded adapter to my TP2, it works great. I don't get any electrical noises or any interference at all. I've also used the Grado PS-1000 at my buddy's studio. Grados sound fine in the studio but as soon as I walk out of the studio, I get a lot of interference and hissing. I think the Grados aren't electronically shielded. You'll end up getting electronic interference if your headset isn't shielded or if you're using a low-grade adapter for the ExtUSB. UEs are normally shielded so you shouldn't be getting interference but if you're getting that hissing sound, it's either the adapter you have or it could be that you have a shielding problem on the TP2. Another possibility is that you are using MP3s which were converted wierd or even if you use FLACs, It could be that the sound recorded had the electronic noise in it. If you're in the music industry, ask your sound technician about your gear.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Bundin:
I don't know where you live of course but I've found that walking into most electronics/phone stores (branded as well as non-branded) and asking for a tryout in the store usually isn't a problem. Bring your earphones and some music on a card and just ask if you can have a quick check to see if the problem is more widespread.

Most stores like keeping (potential) customers happy, and many are very interested in possible problems with certain models so they can warn other customers and avoid getting angry people at the counter a week later.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
Except for the fact that the Verizon touch pro 2 is not in any stores, anywhere in the nation. I suppose I could try a sprint one, but the different rom seems like a huge variable.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] computerpro3:
Tell your buddy I am extremely jealous of his PS-1000's. I'll have to be satisfied with my RS-1's.

I'm not using an adapter for the usb - I have a 3.5mm jack on my phone. It's definitely not the recording or the files - all of my music is stored in lossless on my PC and I ripped them to 320kbps LAME mp3 for the phone.

I guess we will find out for sure when my new phone gets in. It developed the oil slick problem anyway so it had to go.