yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] fz9999:
I was in Carphone Warehouse last weekend and the sales assistant said his computer was showing the HD2 as available on Orange - to be available in 'about 2 weeks' - I'll believe it when I have one in my hands though!
[Touch HD General] mjordan79:
Hello, I'm new here ... :)

I was considering buying this phone, but after reading some specs I'm really reluctant. I (personally) have 10 reasons not to buy an HD2. I mean:

1) Hardware compatible with Windows Mobile 7 (on paper, because the WM7 specs are not really official) but no official support for the future (ok, I know it will be unofficially possible, but this hurts to my nerves). Where is the support a company should give to an high-end customer?

2) 65K colors screen. Not important what people says. We're in 2010. And yes, the difference is visible. I'm not complaining about the lack of an AMOLED technology here, but hey, you can't have everything. But for that price, I expect *at least* 256K colors. Probably WM 6.5 doesn't support more colors than that, but hey... Something future proof? :p

3) HSUPA 2Mbit is old. Operators are approaching 5.76Mbps soon if not tomorrow.

4) No built-in front camera. No video call, no skype, no voip applications.

5) No hardware acceleration (why using a 1Ghz Snapdragon while the current hardware works unaccelerated). This phone has an Imageon GPU built in. Totally wasted.

6) Really bad photos and videos (come on, a low-end sensor can do more).

7) Poor Java support (HTC should really learn from SonyEricsson here). A "smart" phone should really approach at least a good MIDP / CLDC support. I won't ask for CDC specs, here, because I know they won't give us half satisfaction in this area. The problem is the world is approaching MIDP 3.0 and smart phones have no more things to laugh too much of Java ME.

8) "Features the "new" SnapDragon 1Ghz from Qualcomm". So new it's produced in 2007. I hate marketing claims. The mobile market is so different from computers. They sell an almost 3 years old processor and they claim it's new. Wow.

9) No SDKs, no access to proprietary APIs. Developer support completely absent. The site http://developer.htc.com is a joke. They call it "Developer Center" with three kernel sources and 2 links?

10) No TV-Out. My dream of doing some presentations with the built-in office mobile is gone.

If this is the "high end" series from HTC I have no words.... :(

Concluding, the real nice features are the capacitive screen with multitouch (but not having Windows Mobile 7 is somewhat limited), the HTC Sense and what else? For 600/650€ (the price I found here in Europe) I expected way more than this, frankly. Lot of hype but analyzing the specs I don't find anything exciting, apart eye candy and secondary things. Sense is great, but a good "high end" phone needs real specs, not only great GUI effects for teen agers showcases at the bar. Effectively, this is the perfect iPhone clone: tons of eye-candy built with tons of limitations. :D

What do you think guys?

Sorry if I'm a little bit harsh in the comments, it's not my intention to troll. Just my views on a "high end" device. A thing that makes me completely crazy is when a manufacturer doesn't give the needed support to a device and / or sells incomplete devices (the lack of hardware acceleration is a serious point, to me, being an OpenGL programmer). No GL development on HTC I guess.
[Touch HD General] leobox1:
omg.. your posting of those makes me think twice..

not even a front camera ?
[Touch HD General] galaxys:
mjordon79, welcome to the xda HTC forum. what ppc are you currently using? you sound like u work for apple... check out the 600+posted Leo thread in the general section for why this is going to be one of the best ppc's on the market!

Oh, for the usa tmobile folks some very very good news! Looks like the Leo is coming to us 1st Q next year! Only if I can wait that long :eek:

http://www.tmonews.com/2009/10/windows-mobile-midnight-madness/
[Touch HD General] mjordan79:
Thanks for the welcome, no I don't work for Apple. To demonstrate I don't work for Apple, I have said this is the perfect iPhone clone: full of eye candy built with tons of limitations. In fact, I sold my iPhone 3 months after purchase. Ok, I have to admit this device is better than an iPhone :p

Personally, I gave *MY* 10 motivations of why it isn't. For me, it's sufficient. On the other side, people buy everything companies feed them. Just put a lot of eye candy, a cool and fashion factor, lot of hype and you're done. Sales will be good. I consider myself more technical than this. Sure, it will be the definitive customizable machine, but who cares. :D A dead Imageon processor have no excuse. But I will follow your advice, I'll read that 600+ posts. I hope to find a bunch of them more technical than discussing about how cool Sense is, but I strongly doubt :)

What I mean is: the cool and fashion factor is what makes people write in their signature "w/ Snapdragon" when they should write "w/out Imageon acceleration". :D
[Touch HD General] zolom:
Well said and quite true, mjordon79, but mostly, the lack of support for my current HD will make me think twice before purchasing any coming HTC product. :(
[Touch HD General] Rizlo:
Where did you find out about the lack of hardware acceleration on the HD2? Is it possible that you are mixing your info with the HD? I really don't want to be fooled twice.
[Touch HD General] XdaIIs:
Here is an other video.

This time it's a HTC HD2 vs Nokia N900

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQfA61q5T54
[Touch HD General] danprocter:
Available here on a T Mobile contract 18 months web n walk and its a free phone....

http://www.mobilephonesdirect.co.uk/Basket/index.aspx
[Touch HD General] mjordan79:
Just look at the benchmarks... This phone rocks in pure cpu power. It's completely lacking in 3D performances... That means it's not hardware accelerated. Notice this phone has an Imageon chip inside, so not having it in use is a thing I don't understand. Maybe at HTC they think all users are perfect idiots, I don't know.

Look:

And consider that a lot of its performance in 3D is helped by the power of the snapdragon.
[Touch HD General] iviarkgraham:
i was looking at getting this phone but im not too sure

i like my hd but there is a lack of cool apps and games and i feel this is going to be the same

my friend has the htc hero and has loads of apps available through the market place

i think i'll wait a few months before i go for the change
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
What do you guys think of the rumoured Nokia N920 phone (basically a N900 without the keyboard, and with a bigger 4.1inch screen) Imo it mite give the HD2 a run for its money, looks better too. Love how the front face has no buttons and might even have a higher screen-to-front face ratio than the HD2, tho it looks thicker :(

link only has one picture, but hoping its real:

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n920_phone_tablet_leaks__theres_no_qwerty_this_time-news-1185.php
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
With a smaller processor & CPU power and no visible hard keys on image shown, it will be intriguing to see how well it performs. Still, I don't think it will compete with the HD2's versitility to change appearance, as well as ability to change roms. Plus you wouldn't get this community for help/issues/develop/apps/software etc etc
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Interesting, thanks.

Perhaps that only tells us it can't accelerate whatever the SPB benchmark is testing? I'd only be interested in video acceleration anyway.
[Touch HD General] Fru T Bunn:
A well thought out post.

I'm kind of coming round to agreeing with you having seen the specs for the Snapdragon processor and then comparing that with the specs for the HD2 device. Whilst I still think I'll end up getting this device my end of term report will probably be along the lines 'Could have done better'

Regards,

Fru
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
True, I guess im just not excited with the HD2 cus not much third party dev.s will be able to maket good use of the multitouch feature. Plus looking at the benchmarks posted, there might not be some hardware acceleration. It's obvious htc are cutting corners on some things. I'll probably keep my HD for only 1.5-2 years (cus the new phones coming out are getting me excited >.<), giving me the end of next year to start looking for a new one. By then I hope winmo7 and HTC can create a great multimedia device that performs as good as the competition (my gf's 3GS and mates BB bold plays videos SOO much smoother and brighter).

Though, i know some might hate me for this, but if the next iphone has a new redesign, a new UI that incorporates multitouch, has a slightly bigger screen (maybe match the HDs) peform as well as the 3GS is doing now (or better), can multit-task, and get a bigger battery (or longer battery life in general), and can be used as a thumb drive, all this without jailbreaking then I might forget about the customisability of winmo, since it'll be performing the way i want it out of the box.... unlessof course, htc incorporates all those missing parts into their winmo 7 devices, then i'll be hanging around the htc community even longer :D
[Touch HD General] Xaddict:
WM7 upgrades

Yes. You will get unlimited free upgrades here on XDA-Devs
[Touch HD General] Xaddict:
Negative preconception

So what would you get?

This is the most advanced phone in the world.

Your post is full of innacuracy & disinformation.

Snapdragon may be 3 years old, I don't know but, why are there only two phones in the world with a 1Ghz processor? Nearly twice the size of any other processor. Perhaps it has taken 3 years to develope.

Windows 7 does not even exist.

There is only WM 6.5.(1) & 7 will flow from developements in 6.5

I never use video call or MMS and am glad they are removing the clutter.

I think most HD2 customers will be highly discerning, not easily deceived by flashiness like iPhone users. The HD is the most superp phone you can get at present.

If you want TV ou, get a diamond.

I'm not thrilled by a capacative screen because it will limit interactivity for me. I hate apple, having once been a Mac user, and one go on an iphone and I knew I would never use one. Trying to surf pages with fingers, and the onscreen micro keyboard, what a hoax.

But the HTC interrface is really superb. I have been running Manila 2.6 on my HD courtesy of Miri and now I want a Leo.

With your attitude you will not benefit from the astonishing amount of brilliance, innovation and ingenuity on this site.

XDA rules the world in phone software, and HTC phones rule.
[Touch HD General] Xaddict:
iPhonezilla

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrXrQUZgwE
[Touch HD General] gogol:
What a poor graphics performance :(

So, I will not be fooled again after the Kaiser. For sure, I will skip this HD2 with this low poor graphics performance.
[Touch HD General] Alfredos:
What does this mean for the phone and use "a poor 3d performance":confused:

On differend video the phone looks realy fast
[Touch HD General] Toss3:
Poor 3d performance often means that there aren't any drivers for its built in gpu, which is very common for all qualcomm processors.

This is totally unacceptable for a high-end device and hopefully people will refrain from buying one before HTC straightens things out.

You notice it in all applications that have support for gpu acceleration like video players, gps software and games etc..
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
Totally agree, I got the HD assuming it could be a good media player/phone (since my phone and mp3 player was already stuffing up). Boy was i wrong, I had to convert video files, and even then, it wasnt as smooth as my media player. I think htc reckons that since winmo cant produce 3d games like the iphone (i think its something to do about openGL support, correct me if im wrong) that their products dont require drivers for the GPU as it wouldnt be using it to its true potential. Waiting for winmo7 and/or next iphone :D
[Touch HD General] Toss3:
My converted movies run pretty well, but far from how they run on the iphone 3GS. The new manila 2.5 album art runs very slow too.

There really isn't any excuse for not having proper driver support in a phone that costs over 600€.

Going to get a Nokia n920 instead of my touch hd soon.
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
Yep, the movies do run well, but like u said, far from the 3GS, or from the blackberry bold, or from my old media player. Its like the fps have been reduced, colours arent as viibrant either :(. When theres alot of action, imo it kinda blurs (kinda like when i open up a picture file, it has a slight blur before becoming very sharp) Its only in the slow moving scenes that it does become very detailed in the videoclip, and u dont notice the fps as much since there aint much movement. Its obvious the graphics performance sucks. Hoping winmo7 can fix that up, as well as htc, cus i really love the potential and customisability of winmo. But i love the speed and multimedia abilities of the iphone.
[Touch HD General] br3nt:
ill post this one here aswell:
[Touch HD General] olliesshop:
FYI, I ended up buying an HTC Pure (Topaz / Touch Diamond 2) from AT&T yesterday to hold me over until the HD2/Leo is available for the U.S. 3G HSDPA/UMTS networks. It's a wonderful device!!! But I would like it be bigger and faster, so I'll be counting the days/months until the HD2 arrives. Thanks for all the help.

Also, I found out the following on AT&T's frequencies ... "AT&T Wireless launched UMTS services in the United States by the end of 2004 strictly using the existing 1900 MHz spectrum allocated for 2G PCS services. Cingular acquired AT&T Wireless in 2004 and has since then launched UMTS in select US cities. Cingular renamed itself AT&T and is rolling out some cities with a UMTS network at 850 MHz to enhance its existing UMTS network at 1900 MHz and now offers subscribers a number of UMTS 850/1900 phones."
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
Probably home cooked ones by htc, that dont utilize the hardware as it should. Either way, it doesnt make the device perform to its true potential. Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSOheP9fYMk

basically 2 almost identical smartphones (HD and F900) and watch the F900 kick the HDs ass.
[Touch HD General] PoisonWolf:
Maestro,

Yes.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] berbecverde:
I've been reading the opinions of the user about the HD2, buying or not the device.So i decided to share my own opinion.

I have a Touch HD now and i am pleased with the design and the size of the device and the screen.Some say the bigger screen the better, but we are still talking about a phone here.I personaly do not want to end up walking around with a phone with the size of a brick like in the old days, even if it is a great BRICK.

The front camera is something that many people use or not.If it is there you can chose to use it or not.But if it is not then you have only one choice.(and it is not very expensive i think).

And i think (maybe i am wrong) that if there were some decent video drivers for our HD, a 520 mhz processor would be enough, and a lot of people would stick with this great device.

Not saying to anyone not to buy the HD2 because i am sure it will not be a bad device, but not for everyone.

But all this is just my opinion. :).
[Touch HD General] ilordvader:
Hows the New Acer Neo Touch

equal or better to HD2 ?
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
Wow, why the bold letters. That Acer in the clip, as i mentioned, is the F900 (533mhz, 128mb ram, 3.8inch screen) very similar specs to the HD, yet it out performs the HD. If you didnt read the past posts, i was getting to the point that whether the current crop of htc devices come with drivers, they are still underperforming, and are probably home cooked drivers by htc.

I did no mentioned the Neo Touch or HD2, but will nonetheless be interesting how the HD2's performance stacks up against the Neo Touch. If those benchmarks of the HD2 (mentioned in past posts) are accurate, then clearly there isnt any proper graphics drivers and/or hardware acceleration on the HD2... what a waste imo
[Touch HD General] TheToid:
Well heres my take on it all:

1) I own a HD i only bought it last month, i cant justify another $900 aud on the HD2 when it is basically the same phone with these enhancements:

a) Compass - could be handy but wouldnt use it much

b) Multi Touch with HTC Sense - definitely nice to use but i like the stylus on my HD

c) 1 GHZ over 800 MHZ processor - is WM6.5 any slower or faster than WM6.1? I find my HD could be a little more zippy in spots but i am happy with it

d) Bigger screen is nice HOWEVER - it has the same resolution, remember this people, its bigger but there are no more pixels here, so unless you are going blind who needs the extra size, there is no more real estate, just size

e) LED Flash on the camera - definitely a bonus, however I find the camera on the HD is only really useful when you need a quick shot, dont try to take perfect photos

All in all i just cant justify it, I think I will wait and keep my HD for a little longer until HTC make the next model with WM7, by then they may update it again with even more stuff!

PS: I dont hate the iPhone (i think its a great idea), i HATE apple, why, because their software you have to install on your PC is a piece of crap (namely iTunes), its slow clunky and takes over your system, and for that reason i will never buy an iphone!
[Touch HD General] gogol:
From that benchmark, why HTC Touch Pro2 is faster than HTC HD2?

I can imagine Samsung OmniaPro is much faster because it is not HTC device.

Considering HTC Touch Pro2 is relatively older than HTC HD2, why it is faster?

I think we should again campaign about this driver issue :(
[Touch HD General] leobox1:
seems like touch hd 2 is not much superb? but the cpu.. is it much faster?
[Touch HD General] Rizlo:
How in the world could they have the guts to release an nth driverless device? Will they ever learn? I'm afraid I'm going to skip this one.
[Touch HD General] leobox1:
no drivers????????????????

btw anyone knows what is this htc sense we are seeing in the rom development? is this the real deal or just a UI?
[Touch HD General] henrik.dk:
d-pad

hardkey for phone lock ......
[Touch HD General] Cruzer1:
When did i say the F900 would outperform a snapdragon device?. You trying to be a smarty just shows u havent been reading past threads. The F900 isnt my dream device.

Just watch the youtube clip, you'll see how laggy the HD is. I myself wouldnt swap MY HD (YES I HAVE A HD, INCASE U DIDNT KNOW) for the F900, but my point was performance. And that review you linked doesnt actually show any videos of video performance of both, guess the youtube link I posted is the only true proof of a side by side comparison, all they mentioed in that review of yours is the HD feels faster, yet didnt actually state they tested it side by side.

btw: Acer does have a snapdragon device called the neotouch, like i said previously, will be interesting to see how the HD2 performs against the (snapdragon powered) Acer Neotouch.

Also, please read past threads before making assumptions ;)
[Touch HD General] guiltlyzebra:
Good Morning to all,

Just on the discussion of the HD2, a couple of us have spoken to o2 who have sometimes confirmed, sometimes given vague info, on today as the release date?

Just wondered has anyone been to a store or contacted them yet for confirmation on this? Is it out to go and 'play' with?

Jody
[Touch HD General] Toss3:
We were talking about hardware acceleration in applications. It is apparent that the Touch HD is a better device when it comes to the interface and looks, but the Acer F900 outperforms it in every application where the video drivers come into play.

The HD2 is undoubtedly much faster than its predecessor, but it still won't outperform the Iphone 3GS when it comes to gaming and movie-watching(strictly in terms of performance).

The Samsung Vodafone H1 looks like the perfect phone on paper, if only it ran manila(vodafone's crappy 3d interface looks very slow). :o
[Touch HD General] richie_jones:
Just got off the phone to the upgrade department. Muppet on the phone didn`t even know they were getting the HD 2. After asking around the office i was given a date of the end of this month.

Looks like another week of waiting....
[Touch HD General] janne_s:
I have read in some places that the HD2 can play Xvid/DivX without converting first. True?

When there is an incomeing call, can this phone ring (in the phone, not in the headset) when I have the headset/phones in the 3,5mm jack?? (I really hate that my Touch HD does not do that).
[Touch HD General] henrik.dk:
no gps tmc

no optical d-pad

no oled for power saving.

no lock key. Something I already have from axim years ago.

Should just skip this one for the next one I would say.

HTC is not in good position to beat iphone I would say. They should have done it way better.
[Touch HD General] TheToid:
My HD plays Xvid / DivX just fine, i simply use Core Player, it comes with all the codecs you need, I dont need to convert them at all, of course if the resolution is too high the CPU just isnt fast enough to decode it.

The fact that the HD dosnt play Xvid / DivX has nothing to do with hardware (unless its because the CPU isnt fast enough) its because WMP dosnt support Xvid, Divx by default. And to be honest the extra speed of the cpu still will not allow you to play large Xvid videos on the HD2 (ie. HD resolution. 1080p or 1080i)
[Touch HD General] leobox1:
seems like current hd owners do not have much incentive to buy hd2 then?
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
Well first off the specs for the HD2 don't really jump out and grab me. It looks like they've just added a few things without really improving to much. Yes it has a 1GHZ 800MHZ processor (snap dragon is actually 2 years old) , a flash for the camera without actually improving it, a compass which may be useful....but how often will you use it? & capacitive/multi-touch which is only the real addition worth mentioning. They haven't improved any existing flaws like drivers.

Think I'll wait for next release, or one after again.
[Touch HD General] Rizlo:
Same here but for me the greatest appeal of this thing is the capacitive screen itself, even more than its consequent multi-touch capability. I'm really done with resistive touchscreens. But I also want a flawless GPU, especially after the HD1 experience.
[Touch HD General] wilbur:
one of my big questions about the device is the screen - when I had my Kaiser the only thing I used to hate was constantly having to re-calibrate the screen.

Given this is a capacitative screen is that now going to be fixed? (i've never had to recalibrate my G1 screen) I'm a little concerned because the OS is designed for all those resistive devices out there - so will it still have the "align screen" setting?.
[Touch HD General] mallman:
yes it will work fine. it will not get 3g but it will work in all other areas.
[Touch HD General] mallman:
windows mobile cant do more than 65k. That is the only reason
[Touch HD General] richardirv:
I can't wait for this even though it might still be lacking in GPU power, lets face it though its windows mobile, you can't even get really decent games for it. If you want to game there are other devices available. For me I think the real plus for the HD2 is multimedia and really looking forward to software using the digital compass (augmented reality stuff)
[Touch HD General] gogol:
Thats not true ... My old Windows Mobile 2003 SE could play game very well.

But not my HTC Kaiser.

Why? Because the graphics performance of HTC Kaiser sucks.

Why? Because there is no driver for it!

And now HD2 ... from what I have seen (benchmark), it shows bad / poor graphics performance as well.

As I experienced with HTC Kaiser driver saga ... I will not fall for that again.

Sorry HTC, I have learned my lesson.

No good graphics performance = no buy.

I hope next iteration will be better (thinking TEGRA platform?).