yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Android Development] Superken7:
Does anyone know the specifics about those two apps?

We could start reverse engineering them and write open source versions,

so what do we know about them? Does anyone have any pointers on where to start looking at what they do?

One option is to sniff all the traffic, but I don't know if they just do the initial registration and then quit, or if they write any files or do anything locally (in the phone)

I would like to hear more about what is currently known about them before starting from scratch :)
[G1 Android Development] Superken7:
Could you be more specific about this?

Whats missing which is preventing apps talk to each other?
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
More info on this when it is a bigger problem lol sorry
[G1 Android Development] sim-value:
I think he is talking about a Uniform Communication Framework like D-Bus which will allow applications to send an event to the System and/or other applications ...
[G1 Android Development] carnegie0107:
Multitouch!

One big advantage to replacing the proprietary apps: We can use multitouch to our hearts' content. Knowing that this rom will include root access, we can write all our replacement apps to make use of the multitouching kernel. Ain't it cool? Imagine our Maps-replacement app with multitouch zooming, or a virtual keyboard that allows you to hold the shift key to select text.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Thank you lol as for the adsence if u don't like it don't look at it. i still use Google search and gmail as do mostly everyone in the OAA project its not about anti-android its about stopping them from stopping us i am sorry you disagree but it is helpful for the site without the site we would be scattered all over the place.
[G1 Android Development] Superken7:
If that's the case then that already exists in android. Its called Intents and AIDL.

If that's it you can get it off the list.

Anyone got any info on the Chekin and SystemWizard apps?
[G1 Android Development] irrenhaus:
I've looked into it a little further and found out the following.

The GoogleContactsProvider is as the name says a provider for google contacts. It also implements the syncing for the contacts. The Login is realized by The GoogleLoginService. When a service instance is created it can be configured with a username and password for google login just by one function call.

How it is used can be found in the file frameworks/base/tests/AndroidTests/src/com/android/unit_tests/GoogleLoginServiceTest.java

I think I will write a setup app which configures the apn's and configures the google login service the next days. Don't know when I have time for this but I think it will be easy.
[G1 Android Development] darthlukan:
Forgive me for not reading every page (got to 26 and skipped) but I remember reading that someone made the correlation between android os being linux. I am surprised that many others haven't had the lightbulb switch on. At least as far as the dream is concerned (the phone I have) it's an ARM, linux flavors have ARM kernels, android runs a version of ARM if I am not mistaken. Basically we are running a linux distro on a phone, so rather than needing a "market"maybe we just need a new package management system similar to portage, apt, etc. There are ARM versions of firefox to my knowledge (I can apt-get firefox and have the browser install via chrooted ubuntu stored on my sdcard), so what we need for the most part is available. Maybe what we need os wise is a merging of what the android kernel already knows (modules,drivers,etc) with other ARM kernels so that we can get a working system running on our devices minus the google bits. A package management system supporting .apk couldn't be that difficult, and depending on how we do it, we may be able to drop apk all together and move to a different package system.

I have been following a lot of ARM development by linux devs online, the base is there, we just need more devs out there willing to have a look. There are some VERY talented devs here, I'm sure we can figure something out to make another flavor of android.
[G1 Android Development] afbcamaro:
Nice

We are definately in the right direction. This was going to happen anyways. What we truly need is organization. This is not that hard in itself, but it has to be organized with standards or at least a way for us to have a repository that we can contribute to. We can use sourceforce for the individual components and once one is approved to work we integrate it in our repository that may pull from androids open framework.

This does not mean that we cannot use google for contacts etc. What it means is that we could have lose programs that Must interact with each other in order to make it in our repository. Once a framework has been baselined it can morph to what ever needs we need or anyone needs.. It can be available so that you can add what you wish independently..

I do not believe we should use free preexisting applications in the LONG term, because even though they are free the source is not... However if we are organized we could even officially ask the company that owns the software if they are willing to open source it for us. This could be a blessing for both our open android and them...

I for one I am willing to if organized properly to incorporate a group legally as a non profit organization. Also provide the hosting as well... This is what will change us from a rag tag group to an actual entity but we must be completely serious about this and have real developers willing to assist in the process as well as the community..
[G1 Android Development] testing567:
I just posted this exact idea a couple of minutes ago at the new Open Android forum.

http://android.teamriot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23
[G1 Android Development] sandos:
Why does the forums require registration to even read them? Not very open and I don't see the point.
[G1 Android Development] evilpig:
Wow, I spent 4 hours coding and designing and already around 100 members! Thanks to everyone for supporting a good cause.

Get off Google's leash and join the Open Android Alliance!!!!
[G1 Android Development] evilpig:
Sorry... fixing now.

edit: fixed!
[G1 Android Development] abchiptop:
I also skipped quite a few pages, but I'm a student graphic designer, and I'd GLADLY help with designing a stock theme, as long as nobody minds me using it for my portfolio :)
[G1 Android Development] camarriott:
Hey

could we make a ROM that instead of containing the Google programs, it just doesn't overwrite them from the previous ROM? The Google programs never get wiped, moved or modified, they just stay we're they've always been while our ROM installs itself around it?
[G1 Android Development] Metal_Hurlant:
I'd be hesitant to lose compatibility with .apk packages.

I'd favor a debian-style package system to wraps .apk files, as well as to install any native non-.apk stuff.
[G1 Android Development] Superken7:
I think the best would be doing an open source Market version, not a debian-style repository.

Why? Because then users would only need to have one Market app installed in order to see every application available.

If we start creating new server-side markets we would need to have several market apps installed, and that would suck.

Good thing about this option: It has already been done. There are at least two webs than give you access to the market

Bad thing about this option: We don't know how google would react to this, we should ask about it. (Since the protocol to talk to the market is not open)

The second best option, IMHO, would be to create an app that transparently works with two (or more) markets in the background.

This way, users would be able to perform searches and download apps, while not having to know from which market they are downloading.

All being kept clean and simple in one app. One app to rule them all.. yeah..
[G1 Android Development] danguyf:
I'm questioning the wisdom of continuing down this OAA road when the AOSP has been similarly energized by recent developments and are working toward the same goal, only they [A] appear far more familiar with the technical side of Android and are supported by actual Google-employed Android developers. (To say nothing of, "[C] JBQ actually uses punctuation and capitalization in his posts and so is easier to follow.")

Why duplicate the work? Why not contribute to the AOSP effort? They already have the know-how and the infrastructure in place.
[G1 Android Development] wickednix:
NVM, reread the OP. has changed from the past 2 days I read all up on this.
[G1 Android Development] buckbullstallion:
I didnt say I want to fight google

Google has every right to file a c & d. what saying is that I would love to take part in an open handset android phone that is not Dependant on Google apps or any of their advertisements.Therefore I am asking the people of the openhandset alliance website try to find alternative ad sources. It is funny having GOOGLE pay for something they DON'T want tho. All I want is to be less GOOGLE dependant on this device and perhaps since like all MY DEVICES are HTC maybe develop a Platform that can be installed on my MDA, SHADOW, and my 2 android phones. now thats what I would like to see that Has NO branding at all. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MAYBE SOME HELP FROM THE UBUNTU comunity.

And furthermore I believe this is Googles stance because they are not gonna support a push for the G1 when donut is released so they need to appease the phone carriers march to launch 1 handset a year with a 2 year contract. Therefore I honestly support and welcome using a fully Googleless device now and in the future as I know and am quite confident that they plan on ****ting on all the G1 users. but this is just a big hunch, we have to wait and see when donut is released if the carriers will push it to the G1. If the carriers do Push it to the G1 I will be amazed and perhaps applaud Google and may now and in the future support their efforts.
[G1 Android Development] evilpig:
They can continue their path. And we may take note of what is done and use it on our own projects. But our goal is a ROM (like many roms here) that is open and uses our in house open source applications to do what we need.
[G1 Android Development] buckbullstallion:
agree 100 percent. Java packaging, as the APK is essentially java.
[G1 Android Development] danguyf:
Yeah, but that's their goal too. Did you read the link? They are looking to write open source versions of all of the proprietary code (sync, radio, LED, Google apps, etc.) in order to make AOSP a full-featured, installable, stand-alone ROM.
[G1 Android Development] buckbullstallion:
We are not anti-Google we are pro-Android. We are just trying to develop and Android ROM that is not dependent on Apps by Google therefore I believe it is the Web sites best interest to not rely on Google to support the effort of Making a ROM that is Google independent. and Free for us to use what Search Engine we want What contact method we want. Such as a contacts that saves to your SD card. and I see T mobile has a free app on the market that syncs your contacts to their server which has all your contacts on it. Let the Choice be to the people how they want their phone/device powered. I mean the phone cost the same as a WM phone. and Googles claim was to make a device that is a lower cost. well the cost isn't lower than a WM powered phone or even a palm phone just a different branding on it. Well lets UNBRAND Android.

Android was developed to be used on ALL DEVICES. I would love to see my MDA running ANDROID woot.
[G1 Android Development] nolimit78:
If you need further testers I'm more than willing to help.
[G1 Android Development] isaacwaller:
I agree with you - I think everyone is a bit too worked up about this whole situation.

I can do a YouTube app - I did the YouTube Downloader, so I have a ton of YouTube-related code I can just change a little. Email me if you want me to do that: isaac@siriusapplications.com
[G1 Android Development] velazcod:
I'm not sure if somebody said something about this, but, is the browser included in the "Google Apps"?? I don't think it is, we should be able to freely use the stock browser...
[G1 Android Development] karajanlee:
Another tester here

karadog@gmail.com

after you
[G1 Android Development] testing567:
Browser is open source and Loccy gave us permission to use "Modified Browser."
[G1 Android Development] velazcod:
that's what i thought, the first post has the "browser" listed and they were talking about replacing it with steal, opera, etc.

Loccy's open source default browser is great
[G1 Android Development] Zoide_:
Agree 100%. Join forces guys!
[G1 Android Development] corp769:
I honestly think that it is a bunch of bull****.... Yet, smart on our part to create new apps to make it completely open source. I'm just pissed that cyanogen's roms are gone now....well, not really, but you know what I mean. Anyway, as far as making new apps, I guess I'm getting back into programming............
[G1 Android Development] Superken7:
You are absolutely right :P

We should all be contributing to that. We can still use xda for discussing stuff and doing development etc.. , but the ultimate goal would be contributing all our work to AOSP, for all three reasons danguyf has mentioned.

That is pro-Android. The odds of them actually accomplishing their goal is IMHO many times those we would have on our own.

If we work together we will be much more successful and we won't be wasting time and resources duplicating all effort.

just my 0.2
[G1 Android Development] doooshty:
This isn't about taking the easy road.

This isn't about finding loopholes.

This is about building something our own.

Why did Cyanogen mod his own ROM, and not just contribute to ASOP?

So we shouldn't do something because some one else already is? I would have to disagree. They can have their android and we may have ours.

I want to see what this communtity can do.

Lets.Do.This
[G1 Android Development] danguyf:
So is the AOSP.

CyanogenMod is based on AOSP, and his modifications were contributed back to it.

And both groups will have it slower than they would have had they worked together.

I hate to cast dispersions on the motivations of others, but the only reason I can see for clinging to the OAA is that the alleged co-founders like the feeling of power and don't want to give it up. They like to be the cheerleaders in charge, though they lack the technical skills to actually accomplish their mission. One of them told JBQ that he was "more of a project manager". What are your PM credentials? What other OSS projects have you successfully managed?

The AOSP's goal is to create a completely open source Android OS, relying on no proprietary Google code, by writing open source replacements for all of it. The AOSP is not owned nor controlled by Google, though they have employees assigned to work on it. The AOSP's goal is identical to the OAA's stated mission, only they are better positioned in terms of experience, technical know-how, and access to Google insiders.
[G1 Android Development] GNUtoo:
we have now code at gitorious:

http://gitorious.org/replicant

the ril works more or less:

*calls(in/out),sms(in/out) works

*routing calls to the earphones don't work(but music routing to the earphones do)

*pin works

*USSD don't work yet but it should be very easy to implement(look at the openmoko implementation for instance)

the audio works fine including routing for music playback(I saw no difference)

gps doesn't work yet but someone is looking into it(cr2) for another model...

I don't know if we will ever have a free(free like in freedom,~open-source) 3d

and nobody looked into the camera yet

that's the status...

for the rest we don't have some "google experience" applications but some of them can easely be replaced for instance k9 is an usable mail client(worse than clawmails on the openmoko,but usable)

Basically our goal would be to have a 100% free(free like in freedom,~open-source) OS with only free(free like in freedom,~open-source) applications...

we may not share the same goal than your's but still, we would be happy to collaborate
[G1 Android Development] Deathwish238:
I'm going to have to agree with you. If what you're saying about the AOSP is true, the OAA should contribute everything to the AOSP as it will benefit all Android users...which is the heart of open source.
[G1 Android Development] GNUtoo:
mmm...yes and no...

The htc dream's kernel wasn't standard when it was first released that is to say:

*no standard framebuffer(Xorg and kdrive couldn't run) -> fixed with a patch from leviathan

*no standard sound system->alsa is avaliable from qualcomm's kernel that doesn't compile(a lot of simple compilation problems)...druidu has got it working on another msm device...so I'm waiting for him to finish to repass his exam so I won't duplicate his work(I started but I stopped when I had the feling that the thing to fix weren't ending)

*Android userland doesn't have X

And there is also the problem that for having a standard GNU/Linux you would need to merge alsa from qualcomm's kernel,add the patch for the framebuffer,add wifi from 2.6.31 ....all the peaces are in different kenrels...

By the way firefox can run on arm(I've ran it long time ago)...look at openembedded.

Denis.
[G1 Android Development] danguyf:
I'm glossing over the nuance, and the range of opinions on how best to accomplish that, so I'd encourage everyone who is serious about this to read all of the discussions below in order to understand the current direction(s) for themselves.

http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/cfd4181d56c05a7a

http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/918efe72d4e4d4ea

http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/9e2533e6eb365dcb
[G1 Android Development] ttabbal:
The cool thing about open source is that we all benefit when someone else publishes code. Anything we do with OAA can be used by AOSP and the reverse is also true. It's not an either-or situation.

I'm fine with us doing our own thing. Different groups will have different approaches and we can learn from each other and use what works best.

I'm also not willing to start from AOSPs code base. I want the patches from Cyanogen's work. So I'm currently building his code. It's almost working. I'm getting an error in the browser code right now. Trying a different compiler to see if that helps as some people on the google code page for CyanogenMod seem to indicate it does. After all, it doesn't do us any good to write code if we can't compile and test it! :D
[G1 Android Development] abchiptop:
danguyf, good to see another former hiptop user on board over here :danguyf, good to see another former hiptop user on board over here :)

ttabbal, I'm kinda in the same boat as you, I just nabbed all cyaogen's code from github, gonna be compiling here in a little bit.

I feel that using AOSP as a code base is a GREAT way to start, as well as merging cyanogen's patches and modifications. I don't see any problem with merging the OAA project patches to the AOSP project, as some of this work *could* wind up benefiting all android users. Isn't furthering the platform for all users the overall final goal anyways?

As danguyf had posted, I agree that the AOSP needs a community branch, i'd like to see that implemented. Cyanogen, JF, and the other devs have put a LOT of work into the community, and while some patches have been merged, there's not really an experimental section from what i've seen.
[G1 Android Development] darthlukan:
I understand what you mean, I was trying to put it in basic terms to get the ball rolling. One of my points that I was trying to make is that the framework is already out there, meaning that what we are looking for exists; putting it all together may or may not be the hard part.

I think a few people misunderstood what I meant about the package management system, and that is my fault for trying to post something important on my phone :P

What I meant about the package system is that we could use more of a repository system ala entropy or apt rather than pigeonhole ourselves to one "market". In linux you get to edit whatever file happens to list repos for third party software or even upgraded branches of system software just by editing a few lines with some web addresses. That would solve our market problem to an extent. Rather than have four or five market apps available and hving to skim through all of them to find what you are looking for, we have one "market" app (GUI Frontend to package manager such as Sulfur, Himerge, Synaptic) where we can add in the addresses of other market repos so that although there are many markets, there is one program available to list them all. Then you install as you please. No need to have several market programs installed, just need their addresses.

The biggest thing is for people to realize that this can all be made a lot more simple than what I have read from some people thus far. Android is there, tweak it to your heart's content. At this point honestly all that I can see that we "REALLY" need are some app replacements and a market replacement. Unless Google has closed source the userspace layer and all that is really open source is the kernel.

Maybe I am wrong and someone can pm me some of the high points to that, but I see a linux distro on my phone that needs some software and space for said software. I think the hardest part of my problem is getting all of my programs placed on the sdcard without making my system hang. I look at my phone and I see an old school laptop in pocket size. The thing is essentially a computer with a few more perks. I think that if we start treating it as such then the answers are mostly apparent. Yes there are some things that will have to be sorted out, but we have a working system, now we just need to build on it.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm TRULY excited about all of this and I see Google's behavior inadvertantly rallying the masses for a good purpose.

Brian
[G1 Android Development] abchiptop:
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/abc223_86/fry-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

From the looks of what is included in the AOSP, and from what Cyanogen has mentioned, it looks like we just need a Setup Wizard with sign-in and the checkin service. That will give us a *working* barebones build of android that we can install software on to our heart's content. I agree with you in the market idea, however that would require us being able to get access to the data for each market, and then we're assuming they're all using a standardized format. If they're parsing the data differently, or even have different sort categories, this could cause a LOT of headaches. I see where you're going, but it's likely gonna take a lot of work to get a universal market app right now.
[G1 Android Development] strazzere:
This is definitely doable. The only thing you'd need to figure out is a few things sent via SSL opposed to the normal POST/GET commands the market normally sends.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
haha

I'll tell you what, you can have the project to do what you like.

From the begining I have always said comunity driven never once have I forced my ideas on to anyone I simply am *trying* to organize it.

Another thing I have tried to contact Jean-Baptiste he said he would be interested in colabarating and would get back to me and has not gotten back with me.

If u think i enjoy having the "power" you can have it I have gotten 11 hours of sleep since we started the idea I admit like attention as much as the next guy but if you really believe I am abusing my power we can put up a vote to get rid of me its up to you make the thread and I will post my vote.
[G1 Android Development] danguyf:
I don't want it. I want everyone to join in with the AOSP effort.
[G1 Android Development] IConrad01:
Okay -- before this degenerates into a fight, here's a simple solution:

OAA people upstream their code to the AOSP. Pull the code from the AOSP as well, while you're at it.

OAA keeps existing. OAA 'joins' the AOSP.

It works for Debian & Ubuntu. Let's make it work here.