yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Android Development] brentcctx:
Would you please stop trying to pick a fight?

What you fail to acknowledge is that every single one of us with Google Experience phones, the target of Cyanogen's mods, have every right to those Google applications. We purchased our phones and we have the license to use the apps! Its not 3rd party apps, its not paid apps off the market then copied and distributed, its not apps we got off of a warez site... its Google apps from the Google phone. If Cyanogen was porting this rom to, lets say a TMobile Shadow, it would be a different story. But its not, so end of story... at least to our right to use them. Yes, Google does own the software just like every other software maker does. Its understood we only have a license to use it/them. But since we do posess that right, thats where our beef with Google lies. They tell us customize to our liking, yet they were not forward thinking enough and tied every bit of the operating system to those apps and the framework. You can even make or apply a decent theme without modifying those files. So when the heavy hand of Google starts crying foul, its our right to present our side to try and convince them to relax their stance. Were not asking them to authorize or condone porting those apps to phones where they are not intended... only to phones where they rightfully belong.

I find the few of you on XDA that see it so in favor of Google to be laughingly hypocritical... especially the senior members who are obviosly here for mods to their own phones. It truly is the pot calling the kettle black.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
In fact "ROM" developers CAN leave them out and you CAN rip them out of the official update files and install them yourself. Of course the majority of "ROM" users only have a skin-deep knowledge of how Android works and would just QQ nonstop if "ROM" cookers did the above.
[G1 Android Development] rubensun:
Unfortunate

This is an unfortunate move from Google on the heels on it's release of 1.6. Folks in the Android modding community have done much to advance the platform and make devices more robust and usable.

Certainly I can understand Google being protective of its investments of its efforts, but if the platform is understood to be open, then it should be made clear what is within and off the limits. We will do our best to stay within those bounds.

I should say however, if an offering is greatly inadequate folks will naturally look for work arounds to resolve these problems.

Before cyanogen's release of the new market in his new experimental build I resorted to browsing market with Cyrket. Google should have been much more responsive to fixing market. It's harming the entire platform by disincentiving developers from making money through the Android platform, we've seen stats about this http://larvalabs.com/blog/iphone/android-market-sales/ and it's bothersome to no end.

If google can't fix it's own problems, it's customers will try to make do where they can. Either make it truly open or become more responsive to your customers needs. There's no other way around it.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
I didn't read the bulk of your post cos it seemed like a bunch of bull to me, but I run a stock 1.5 with root enabled using JF's build environment. So don't call me a hypocrite, please.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
Yeah, if you ask me that is exactly what pushed it over the line for Google. I don't think it takes genius to come to the conclusion that releasing a company's proprietary apps before they do is probably going to piss them off. :rolleyes:
[G1 Android Development] Ather:
Thats it people, this thread is going offtopic

Thread locked
[G1 Android Development] liamhere:
dam it

you bet me too it :rolleyes:
[G1 Android Development] cyanogen:
There are a lot of issues involved here and they have NOTHING to do with Android.

If worse comes to worst, then we will just have to develop our own replacements for the proprietary bits and that might just be the best thing we could do for Android.
[G1 Android Development] Gimpeh:
I agree that this is quite a douche move on googles part although I still refuse to give Winmo any love. If google screws this up then Moblin will have my full support.
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
correct me if im wrong....google lets ANY dev use the APIs for maps etc....

would that not make it easier to make our own "XDA Maps" app? put 'powered by google' in sumwhere to keep em happy
[G1 Android Development] daveid:
Do you mean to re-write the bits in such a way that would still allow access to the Google features? Like GMail, the Market, etc.? Because, one of the main reasons I actually went with Android was that it seamlessly integrated with my Google Apps for Domains account, and I have my private domain's email pushed right to my phone. I'd really hate to lose that ability.

So, would Google allow you to access their API's for this sort of thing? Or are we looking at a whole different ball-park here?
[G1 Android Development] overground:
You're surprised???? How many people don't read the OP's of threads or the forum rules? Some idiot didn't read the selections wrong. The reason I got this damn device was to support open source projects...Google, you should cease and desist this course you've attempted to follow! You will lose many a loyal user. Although Google never claimed to open source.
[G1 Android Development] overground:
Well, as I understand it, they've had some parts of maps closed from the beginning. That's why there's no real time GPS apps using Google Maps.
[G1 Android Development] phantom574:
google google google

how is it that someone is trying to better your os and you try to shut him down. Long Live Cyanogen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
[G1 Android Development] Gimpeh:
Everyone needs to digg the article.
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
i LOVE android

i see the same potential in it as i do in my favorite linux distros

even without google mail, maps, talk, calendar, market, i will continue to use the roms
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
Thanks garock89 for starting this poll. I got a tweet from andriank about this and i was talking to gridlock and he sent word to the rest of the wreaking crew. Then i sent a tweet to cyan to look at this im glad at support of the community on this one. We have to stop this. Now!
[G1 Android Development] :
DOn't we already have a replacement for the market in sam or something like that
[G1 Android Development] Royalknight6190:
I came to Tmobile for the G1 for the Google phone. because I was sick and tired of big corporations like Verizon issuing crappy phones with crappy software. Google has created an awesome software and devs are making it better. Let them be. Devs make more people want to come and use the android phones.

Let Cyanogen do his thing.
[G1 Android Development] nmxalucard:
This is seriously wrong, by doing this Google is attacking everything that made me love android in the first place :mad:
[G1 Android Development] Sheldonjace:
I guess I'm just a little curious to see the "Or Else" end of this whole deal.

What if he decides NOT to stop...then what? Lawsuit?

This seems to just be a threat made to Cyanogen so far right? What about all the other ROM chefs?

What good does this "Petition" do anyways? Its more or less just an Opinion poll being as we are just the consumers of a free software product, what can we do but express disliking of a direction the company providing the software is taking...its not like we paid for any of it but the phone :rolleyes:
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
not long ago i did see a replacement market i dnt remember what it was called though. WHO THE HELL IS VOTING NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:mad:
[G1 Android Development] phantom574:
if it wasnt for cyanogen my g1 would be in the trash
[G1 Android Development] nolimit78:
gnosy, Lakers3408, wimbet, zhang yixi
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
all the dev take bits and pieces cyan's rom to make theirs better. everyone borrows from everyone. and when we bought the g1 we also bought the google experience so yes we kinda did pay for the software:rolleyes:
[G1 Android Development] stellarman:
Wow! This is REALLY stupid on Google's part.

First of all, they have a top-flight developer working for free to develop their un-inspired and mediocre software for them, and contributing his code to their repository.

Second, this is supposed to be open source.

Third, where's the harm??? He isn't messing with their closed source apps or code. He's just providing it with his distro.

Someone up there at Google hasn't thought this through. They should be offering this guy a top developer job instead of threatening him.

What a bunch of dim-wits...
[G1 Android Development] rikupw:
+1

Cyanogen! Android Community! You have my vote!
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
well f**k that. someone call mikey into this
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
nicely put good sir. all great points!!!!:D
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
i wish i didnt have class tomorrow....i really wanna see this pan out...

havnt been this excited about a thread since the 1st day of the cmupdater thread where i stayed up for 32 hours
[G1 Android Development] oreoOozZz:
Google is really something else man, all i keep hearing is negative things about them towards the Devs. Cyanogen is a great guy and does nothing but HELP promote Google's phone in my eyes. GET OFF HIS BACK GOOGLE.
[G1 Android Development] NguyenHuu:
first off, i support cyanogen's efforts. great contribution. now how i see it.

he isnt force to stop rom developing. only forced to not include close source apps like gmail, youtube, etc. he isnt being sued for it either. there are work arounds. he can continue developing just not include the 5 or so close source apps. people can then get those apps on their own thorugh other means. again, he isnt forced to stop rom dev. correct or am i wrong in my assessment?
[G1 Android Development] :
This is an extremely big issuse to all of us in the android community, we all have something to thank cyanogen for. His kernels, his recovery, bfs, his roms. Every other rom know has a little peice of cyan in them, **** he is the like the flour in a cake. He even alreadly has code in the official android source tree

I think google should offer cyanogen a job as the head dev, we should have a poll for that
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
you are correct....

we can obtain these from other sources, though google wouldnt be happy about it

or we could do what open source developers do best - code our arses off til we can replace the propriatory stuff
[G1 Android Development] buzzdroidx:
Cyanogen, You and every other guy here deserve our support and we ARE standing with you. JF Haykuro Marcus Dude JAC Irrenhaus Soullife LucidRem Stericson Twizted Meltus Overground Drizzy etc etc etc soo soo many...have done more to push this product into users hands (and make it so much better)than they have and well we sure as hell appreciate it. We wont go quietly. we wont go to winmo we wont go to apple we are right here. Hopefully you can work it out with google and hopefully they can appreciate what you all have done. from apps2sd to all the awesome themes Manup! we all have benefitted and we all support you.
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
next question...how do we make google aware of our oppinions...googlelawyers@gmail.com???
[G1 Android Development] NguyenHuu:
yep, and the point was, cyan isnt being forced to stop developing so the problem isnt as big as it looks, right? he can continue as he always has since he doesnt even mess with the close-source stuff anyways. just leave it out of his roms. it may help devs create even better replacement apps. until devs can make good replacements, people have other means to get those specific apps. google wont like it but they cant stop it. their fault for making people use sneaky tactics like this.

does google have a twitter, we can just spam that like we did HTC. they also have their official google blogs.

EDIT: http://twitter.com/GOOGLE
[G1 Android Development] Charrion:
Someone call Google a whambulance

True, but it sounds to me like Google just got their panties in a bunch because you stole their thunder by letting us play with the new Market app before they did.

Still a bad PR move, that's for sure.
[G1 Android Development] |Logic|:
what the eff google?! showing the middle finger to a talented and active developer?! despicable :mad:
[G1 Android Development] mykenyc:
co-sign :D
[G1 Android Development] :
Hey garock, just google "google"
[G1 Android Development] saprano614:
Good point. I am sure there is an email address out there somewhere.
[G1 Android Development] Tookule4skool:
Ridiculous...

Wow I never thought i'd see the day... and what can you really say... at the end of the day they're just another corporation...
[G1 Android Development] uberingram:
Change your signature. Jesus Christ.
[G1 Android Development] killerbeesateme:
I'm curious to see what exact issue they are raising. If it's just not being part of the open handset alliance, wouldn't cyanogen just need to start an S-corp and then request to be a member? This may be more of an issue of them "having" to do this to protect their rights from other people who are actually malicious.

I'm in no way experienced at software distribution issues, but couldn't this be similar to Trademark law? Where they have to enforce it for everyone, or else it dilutes their right to raise the issue against someone truly malicious?
[G1 Android Development] alritewhadeva:
Why does google choose NOW to weigh in on this? Curious as to why exactly NOW. Custom ROMS have been out forever...anyone else wondering or is it just me?
[G1 Android Development] Rekna:
We need to get this on slashdot and boygenius. A bit of bad press will hopefully turn google right around.
[G1 Android Development] |Logic|:
i'll second that, its just a little over the top
[G1 Android Development] Tookule4skool:
The New Market

I assume it's because the new market got out and they're just not to happy about it...
[G1 Android Development] speoples20:
Gridlock your sig is epic failure. Change the damn size or get rid of it.

I think we are all jumping the gun here. From what Cyanogen has been saying is google has issues with what ever he has done with the close portion of Android. Could be releasing the new market perhaps?

Let Cyanogen talk to Google and work things out before we jump on the hate bandwagon.
[G1 Android Development] stellarman:
Hmmmm......

Let's think this through. If they are only concerned about their precious proprietary apps, couldn't Cyanogen just leave them out of his updates? Then someone can develop an app, script or update file that takes the five or so apps in question and installs them into Cyanogen's MOD. Those proprietary programs are available from the various Google distros and could just be packaged up into and installer. Even if that installer had to be written anonymously, someone could certainly make it happen. Cyanogen could still develop around and for those apps. And we could still test the MODs using those apps. We would just need to get them onto the phone as a separate step from installing Cyanogen's update.

It is stupid to be forced into doing that kind of work-around. But, it could certainly be done. And it could probably be done really fast and pretty easily.

That's my thinking on it, anyway. Am I missing something? Wouldn't that work?
[G1 Android Development] dwang:
I'm not sure how google is going to stop the re-distribution of the closed source apps.

Worse comes to worse, distribute 2 packages. One open source and the other closed source via Bittorent or something.
[G1 Android Development] tep065:
And engadget :D
[G1 Android Development] DarkFoxDK:
You'd think Google would know that you can't keep something off the internet...

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
[G1 Android Development] :
Alright is everyone happy, i took the pic out, sheesh, i thought it was quite fitting for the thread
[G1 Android Development] N0xTrUm:
Cyanogen has enabled Android evolves, the development of the Hero is dead and rely on updates via OTA is horrible.

Or Google wakes up and reach an agreement or will not go very far.
[G1 Android Development] Argusi:
Heck, just omit the apps from the ROM and Google can distribute them themselves on the market as a bundle. The same as T-Mo did. No more redistribution...

EDIT: Ugh, except I believe the Market app is closed also :O
[G1 Android Development] aven_soulgazer:
I want to see how this goes. Hopefully dropped before the Hero comes out. If google goes against roms, I won't be getting an Android device.
[G1 Android Development] R@F@:
man it would really suck if they stopped what cyanogen is doing. I was so bored with my G1 until i rooted. Im using cyanogen and it has brought my phone back to life!!
[G1 Android Development] dwang:
I don't think this is as bad as everybody thinks.

Google isn't telling CY to stop developing. They are only telling him to stop re-distributing the closed source apps. Which is very easy to get anyways even if its not included in CY's ROMs.

AFAIK, CY is only enhancing the open source code.
[G1 Android Development] Christopher3712:
Google must have determined some sort of monetary loss due to Cyanogen's work. It's the only thing that makes sense. Otherwise, why go after Cyanogen when he's basically working FOR Google for free? Just offer the guy a job and call it a day. I see that as a win/win for them. In the meantime, it's still a ****ty move to make. The could have just contacted him reasonably instead of the show of force.
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
we can just omit the apps, like it isnt hard to get them anyway i have friends oversea's that will gladly dump thier systems for me
[G1 Android Development] Honestly77:
This just seems like another giant corp trying to **** on the little guy. Cyan is amazing at what he does. I dont see how he is doing anything wrong? What do you mean "closed source" i thought google was wide open? Wtf google? You make money hand over fist. God forbid someone improves upon something and makes NO money off of it...and the improvements made only bring google money. Screw google...or should i say apple..
[G1 Android Development] dwang:
I guess google wasn't very happy that cyanogen leaked the new market and youtube apps before they were ready.

That's probably the crux of the issue.

Google probably doesn't care that cy included all of the existing closed source apps, but including un-released apps is a big no-no.

You can't leak new stuff without getting people pissed.
[G1 Android Development] :
Seriously google, android wouldn't have gotten the following it has if it wasn't for the work of cyan and the other devs here, he is improving your system. He is just leaving alone the apps that come with android intact and unmodded.

Are you crying that much over him getting donut and the new market app out, all that did was get other devs a chance to modify their existing apps to work with donut before the mainstream getting ahold of them. So cyan and the rest of us here at xda are your damn quality control so your os doesn't tank. Could you imanage how if it wasn't for the likes of us rooting and modding your os and then showing off to other consumers how little your precious os would having gotten to this point and the follows who were androiders for life but now after a move like this are considering different options
[G1 Android Development] Argusi:
This is probably true. I have seen that bite you in the ass though. What harm did it do? We may never know, but I do know, the new market had me browse around a lot and I actually bought 8-10 apps that I didn't have just from playing around with it. Google got a cut of that... Am I typical? I don't know...

The only other reason I saw was that they have to enforce it with everyone in order not to set a precedent of letting it slide. Think about it. Not only do the ROM developers re-distribute, but all the themes do also... This may end up being a real PITA...
[G1 Android Development] sararpi:
Go Cyanogen

Totally support CY's effort.
[G1 Android Development] shaneaus:
It is pretty clear we all need to wait until Cyanogen gets to speak with a Google rep. He even said in his chat post that HE WISHED HE HADN'T SAID ANYTHING!

We should all just calm down until he gets that chance to speak with them.
[G1 Android Development] RightYouAreKen:
This is worrying. I hope a solution is found. I don't understand what "damage" could have been done to Google for releasing the apps early though...it's not like they make money off them individually. I wouldn't be half as excited as I am about Android if it wasn't for the custom ROMs. GO CYANOGEN!
[G1 Android Development] roadrunnerx7:
you are completely! correct. the gmail app.. HORRIBLE! you cant even download the attachments! whats the point of the app if for some of the things you want you still need to go to the site? and the market was pretty basic anyway. youtube would be a little harder to work with though =/ but seriously google is making a HUGE mistake if they halt cyanogens work. windows mobile, im on my way! :(

however, and i dont think cyanogen would allow this, but another possibility is they allow him to continue, but force a price on the rom and updates :(
[G1 Android Development] hotweiss:
Oh wow, this just erased all of my love for Google in one shot. I don't see anything malicious being performed by cyanogen at all. His actions only support Google.
[G1 Android Development] deafptl4ever:
Amen

Google is doing nothing but hurting themselves by doing this. I refuse to buy my wife a Android phone this December if they stop Cyanogens roms. I refuse to upgrade my phone to a Android phone if this goes through in stopping him. Let Google know on Twitter at @Twitter.
[G1 Android Development] gwdash:
Google, please cease & desist going after Cyanogen

Exactly. This is my vote. Google! Don't you know excellent developers like Cyanogen are your greatest Android evangelists? :eek:
[G1 Android Development] dwang:
where exactly did google say cy couldn't produce roms?
[G1 Android Development] pistol4413:
He got a notice from google to stop giving out closed sorce apps. Similar to the pre theme iasco
[G1 Android Development] xile6:
how could they mess with him when its suppost to be open? i think there just mad because they didnt think of the things that he did
[G1 Android Development] deafptl4ever:
Whos voting no?

Probally a Obama lover is voting no as he wants a one world government like Google wants a one world closed source Google system for cell phones too.:eek:
[G1 Android Development] jummama:
Maybe this will kickstart a proper port of hardware drivers over to traditional linux and ditch android for openmoko, ubuntu mid edition or moblin... hell I'd rather even have my phone open metacity and an xterm on boot if this is how google is going to be about it
[G1 Android Development] djunio:
That's it, and their developers are weak, cupcake took way too long to be released and they only released it after haykuro perfected it now cyan has donut working better than they could do and now its a problem.
[G1 Android Development] ttabbal:
Cyanogen's work and the open source promise is why I bought the G1! If Google doesn't make this right I am done with Android. I'll just buy an unlocked Maemo device and forget Android exists. They are pissing and moaning and him distributing FREE apps they posted! Retards.
[G1 Android Development] gwdash:
Great idea! :) It's here: http://digg.com/software/Cyanogenmod_in_Trouble 22 diggs already. Go at it, peeps!
[G1 Android Development] djunio:
I support Obama and I voted yes, Obama has nothing to do with this potential epic fail.