yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Android Development] alsutton:
Is there a list of the apps he's been stopped from using?

My company runs AndAppStore which is an alternative to Googles Market for devices which can't get an agreement with Google, we might be able to help fill in some of the gaps, and, of course, we're happy for our on-device client to be included (in fact we'd be chuffing honoured :)).
[G1 Android Development] senaia:
The way I see it, yes, he has distributed things earlier than google would like, that's probably what it all started from, they just decided to make things a whole lot worse by saying "hey look, closed source app, let's shut him down"

Note to google, we know you're reading, hire the guy, you lot can learn worlds from him, you're only shutting him down because he alone is a better programmer than your whole android team

Note to everybody else, continue the support. He needs it at this time. If google think they can take down one man, they have about 80% of android users to go through first
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
hey can you make a post describing your store into the thread in my signature... thanks :)
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
hmmm...is there an android gui frontend to this?

could someone not throw one together?

obviously it wouldnt work with paid apps, but who cares?
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
who the hell are these 14 voters for no?
[G1 Android Development] senaia:
Google spies, who else
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
seems like they all have pretty low post counts....the must be a splinter cell sent in by apple, microsoft and googles rogue lawyers
[G1 Android Development] licknuts:
[mod edit : abusive language ]
[G1 Android Development] PlatinumMOTO:
They are probably not sure what is going on they are right because G has the the licenses for the apps they make that's probably why they said no. But I can bet

all

of them have Cy ROMs on their phone or

have had

another dev's ROM or at least rooted their phones they wouldn't be here if they didn't.

;)
[G1 Android Development] ldf913:
those 14 no

Those 14 [mod edit : abusive language ]
[G1 Android Development] pychobj2001:
I pray google will snap out of it, but I might be on this same boat....I was thinking cliq too but now...idk...it's hanging up in the air...we all had googles back when apple dissed google, then the apple lied to the FCC so yeah, that's illegal...but what google is doing here is not..but it's just plain wrong when you plan on using a guys ideas (BFS implementation into android for 1.6, we all saw the patch schedule on google.code) google devs (we like that idea, your alright by us Cyanogen, Google big wigs, "hey! he is using our apps in this 3rd party rom! he can't do that! those are closed source!") you don't see HTC running a muck like that when all the hero roms came out or the almost perfect ones are out now...the rosie stuff is crazy closed source yet HTC has not sent one cease and disist order to anybody...it's free press google...jezz...guy walks into a bar..."what phone is that you have? it's awesome...and so fast..you have how many programs on it...how?" CM user "it's got google...and cyanogenmod inside it...you should ((((buy one)))!"

the heads will emerge out of the sand at google HQ in a few days...hopefully tomorrow morning...so CM can get back on track and start helping donut branch do there job...and have 30,000 beta testers working for them for free...wow...yeah...head...sand...yeah...
[G1 Android Development] garok89:
nobody is denying google have the exclusive rights....its just that they arent conducting themselves very well in the matter

why not send a friendly request "could u please stop distributing the new apps until we release donut"

and cyanogen made a good point...he is only distributing for a "google experience" phone, which, in theory, means that sticking these roms out for phones already licenced for them shouldnt be a problem
[G1 Android Development] Marine6680:
When I logged into market to download the Save cyanogen app, it said it had 10,000 to 50,000 downloads and over 1500 ratings. It now lists the app as having 100 to 500 downloads and only 1016 ratings. just checked again, 1010 ratings.... thats odd, it decreased again
[G1 Android Development] maxisma:
People must keep the app 24h!
[G1 Android Development] dekeijzer:
I'm very curious about google's motive with this one.

Pretty considering their motto is "Don't be evil"
[G1 Android Development] sturmeh:
I lol @ adelco93, Capper5016, Carloswithac, devilz0wn, gnosy, IronFly, jashsu, jubeh, KiinG JWD3, Lakers3408, smithfb3, TommyPickles, vanni_martignago, wimbet, zhang yixi...

...and anyone else who thought the polls were private.
[G1 Android Development] Vovan888:
There is always a solution.

For example:

1. distribute CyanogenMod without Google proprietary apps

2. give people opportunity to extract google apps from their stock ROMs and install to CyanogenMod.
[G1 Android Development] m1santh3op:
Google can be happy that developers like cyanogen pushed their android to a new level.

The possibility to choose a custom rom for my g1 is one of the biggest reasons for me to use this phone.

Google should rather donate cyanogen´s work :D
[G1 Android Development] Superken7:
finally somebody making sense.

Actually, google is NOT requesting cyanogen to stop with his roms, he just can't (ilegally!) put those licensed apps in there.

We can all still enjoy his ROMs with apps2sd, all other improvements like compcache and whatever you like.

We'd just have to manually transfer or just download the closed parts after the installation. (anyone write a tool to automate this?)

and thats it. The worlds not over, and cyanogen roms aren't over, either.

At least not the good part about them!!

I hope they can make a deal if it really only works for google-exp devices, but as good as google might be, they are not a charity and as all companies, they'll want to cover their asses.

(not against cyanogen, but given that cyanogen has done it, so that others don't start doing it on other non-google-exp devices)
[G1 Android Development] Binary100100:
I think that instead of Google getting pissy that Cyanogen managed to get 1.6 running on G1's (with the new Google Market) they need to take a look at his roms and use it to their advantage to use it as a new standard for the operating system.

To try to stop him is only going to hender further development which will eventually slow progess and development.

So what? It's like reinventing the light bulb. Thomas Edison wouldn't get pissy if he were alive today and noticed that we can use halogen and LED which conserves energy. He would applaud it! He also didn't create the light bulb to create profit either. I think that is where things change for the worse. When there is a possible profit (even if it is open source, free and available) it will turn the heads of those that feel threatened by it. In this case anyone that improves what the already feel is good enough and is doing a great job creating revenue. What Google fails to realize is that if and when word catches on to potential Android phone users that there is a better rom available for devices than the one that is provided it would give them that much more reason to get and stay with Android which means more profit for Google. Cyanogen is and shouldn't be of any threat to Google because he isn't profiting from any of his work. So he manages to get the new Market. How does that hurt Google? So he manages to port the HTC Camera apps (which is far better than Google's) that only HELPS them! What is he doing to cause Google to look bad or otherwise loose money from their this ass wallets? To waste money to even consider legal action against him would be really stupid under the circumstances. It will cost them thousands of dollars in legal action and what will they profit by doing it? A pissed off group of people that turn to Palm, Apple and WinMo.

So these 14 douche nozzles need to get their heads out of their asses and flash back to stock and lose the roots on their phones because in my opinion if they aren't for us then they are against us. And I'll be taking note of these 14 voters and in the future that they ask for help flashing or whatever I'll be the first to tell them to shove it up their you-know-where. If they can't support the man that has done so much for us then I refuse to support them. Simple as that. So we all need to support Cyanogen. We at least owe him that.

Or we can wait until Google gets off their asses and make a rom that we can all enjoy with all the perks that Cyanogen has been creating. My best guess is that it's not going to happen though.
[G1 Android Development] kash04:
you dont see microsoft shutting down roms... this is bat****
[G1 Android Development] Giganticube:
Can he not add some kind of disclaimer?

You can only install this rom if you already have the closed source apps already on your device.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
Why would I worry the polls are private or not? I'm on the right side and I'm happy for it to be known.

What is sad is that 98% of the users here (according to the poll) seem to not know what the true meaning of open source is and/or have entitlement complexes. Maybe the percentage voting No would be a lot higher if the dev subforum was visited by

REAL

DEVELOPERS instead of clueless users.
[G1 Android Development] Ather:
added it :P
[G1 Android Development] jubeh:
I suggest we contact chris crocker and have him do a youtube "Leave Cyanogen Alone" video
[G1 Android Development] maxqc:
I agree with you and Vovan888 ... For me, I dont mind loosing the new Market and other donut stuff for now if it's what needed ... I'll wait for the official release then I'll have this new stuff.

I love Cyan's tweaks and optimisation better than new market
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
Obviously you haven't been around xda for any significant length of time. Why don't you google "xda-developers microsoft cease desist" and then come back and post?
[G1 Android Development] ldf913:
feel u

I feel u on that homie but guest what... Now its sixteen.. these fragin gizz guzzling d bags got some nerve don't they... we need result what does cynogen have to say?
[G1 Android Development] kash04:
then you'd know that none of the g1 roms are also posted on xda servers...

thats what msft c&d'd for not for putting ms word or office in roms...
[G1 Android Development] DarkFoxDK:
This!! Oh man, this!
[G1 Android Development] Ather:
people, stay on-topic, else this thread will be closed

we have no right to judge other people decisions, if the user chose No, its his wish, dont use abusive languages against them

@ldf913 & licknuts

i've edited your post here and Here
[G1 Android Development] Bcrippsy38:
shenanigans

shenanigans....my mistake thought I was using open source.
[G1 Android Development] JanetPanic:
This is a tougher question than it would seem at first blush. I would like for Google to leave Cyanogen alone but they are well within their rights. Google does not want developers distributing select components without express consent. There are a number of valid reasons for this including brand protection.

Personally I say keep building the ROM and remove the google apps. Hopefully we can come up with a way for the individual users to install said apps in such a way that will not provoke Google. It does mean development versions (such as the new Market in Cyanogen's ROM) are less likely but so be it.
[G1 Android Development] magicman1987:
bastards

MOD EDIT....

NO NEED TO BE SO RUDE IS THERE??

ok sorry :( just angry upon first hearing of the news...

dont google have anything better to do?

cough, cough... prank... cough..

Google Inc.

1600 Amphitheatre Parkway

Mountain View, CA 94043

Phone: +1 650-253-0000

Fax: +1 650-253-0001
[G1 Android Development] magicman1987:
thats a good idea, remove the apps and someone in the community can write a script to "push" all these apps after the installation of your rom, i wouldnt mind doing that, a good idea.

lol, we should write a song like BBC watchdog about google, songs cussing companys spread like wildfire on youtube, if we really wanted to get the message through this would be a great idea! lol!
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
The licensing of a typical Android-powered phone is a mix of ASL (Apache Software License), GPL/LGPL (General Public License, Limited General Public License) and proprietary licenses. The main GPL/LGPL components are the Linux kernel and Webkit core. Parts created by the AOSP team such as dalvik and the interprocess communication framework are Apache license. This constitutes the OS proper.

You can run the phone with just open source software.

On top of that, additional features that are customized for each phone such as Google Experience apps (GMail, GMaps, etc) or HTC/Moto/whatever apps can be licensed in a myriad of ways. Typically they are proprietary closed source licenses. This software cannot be completely determined to be "free" (as in beer) because in most cases in order to legally own a license for it, you must buy a phone containing it. Thus, one could hypothetically say the cost of this closed source software is factored into the cost of the hardware.
[G1 Android Development] GrokThis:
Don't Evoke Edison

Edison was his day's M1cr0sof7, although it should be said the other way 'round, read up about him. He stole more designs and tech from his employees and rivals than anyone operating today and it was certainly for profit and prestige. That is part of why it is SOP for corporations today.

I was hoping Google WAS different but they still could be if they can pull their lawyers back now that they have their teeth sunk in. Hard to get them to stop once they start.

Its a dark day for whats been a really interesting and open platform.
[G1 Android Development] jubeh:
This is almost right. You defenitelly can't run the phone with just open source software... You're forgetting the proprietary drivers and files that actually make the phone boot/run. Now, if android were released for a true OPEN phone (openMoko for example), then yes, you could run android with just open source software (though there are still several binary blobs being used even in AOSP
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
FFS. Google built a huge chunk of the AOSP from the ground up, gave it away for free, and now you're complaining that its a "dark day" just because they're asserting their lawful right to control licensing and distribution of a handful of non-os-related, non-essential, Google-service apps? :rolleyes:
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
Yes, you're right, there are some additional hardware binaries that are required. I should have said that it is possible to run Android in a generic virtual ARM device without any additional proprietary software.
[G1 Android Development] liamhere:
Be nice people

please note your problem is with google....not each other

play nice.....lifes to short ..... " in with anger...out with love" :)

thank you
[G1 Android Development] LucidREM:
So ...

did anyone actually go into google's website:

Google Inc.

1600 Amphitheatre Parkway

Mountain View, CA 94043

Phone: +1 650-253-0000

Fax: +1 650-253-0001

if you truly have a "beef" with them then contact directly .. i can't say that you'll get very far but i'm sure they wouldn't mind hearing from "the public" on the matter of cyanogen .. writing a well thought letter would be the best way of contacting .. phone calls honestly mean nothing in the corporate world .. if it's not on paper it does not exist
[G1 Android Development] imaur:
I know that Google has the right do what ever they want with their intellectual property. But instead of limiting access they should encourage and praise Cyanogen and other dev's work. They should understand that the original product they put out for the G-1 was garbage, a $20 phone could do as much or more. 3 others in my family bought similar phones, to the G1, just for that reason. But with the hard work of ALL the dev's their product has show a lot of promise. They now look at how my phone works no and are rethinking their next phone purchase, just because of Cyanogen and other dev's work.
[G1 Android Development] andersnp:
I would just like to throw in my support for cyanogen as well.

I understand the issue Google has with him distributing closed source google apps. However, since it is only binaries, and only targeted to google supported phones, I don't see the big issue. The big thing would be for Google to officially make cyanogen an out-of-band distributor, and include some licensing or contribution agreement inside the ROM. Would work just fine for me.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
It's interesting to note that you seem to highly praise the "work" of ROM cookers and conveniently ignore the work Google put into creating GMail and GMap apps. Just because Google is a huge company doesn't mean it didn't take time and investment to create those apps. Software's licensing should be respected, regardless of whether the software is written by a single person or a huge multinational corporation.
[G1 Android Development] punk107:
I apologize for not reading all the replies, but I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. While I agree that it may not be "cool" of Google to do, it is their property and they are 100% right for asking non-licensed parties to not distribute their apps.

Cyanogen can continue making his ROMs, without interruption so long as he removes any "Google experience" apps; I'm sure they would not be difficult to find on the internet anyway. I also feel Cyanogen's rebuttal is completely false; he may be developing his ROMs for "Google experience devices" but I don't think it's the device so much that is licensed, it's the companies distributing them that hold those licenses.

I think it'd be better to just wait and see what Google/Cyanogen can work out, if anything before going berserk at Google for doing something that is completely within their right to do.
[G1 Android Development] TheArtiszan:
While defiantly this is within googles right while technically their files are being sent out without their implicit consent, to me it is pointless argument for them. Cyan is targeting hardware that has these services anyway so it is not like he is giving it to people that didn't have it. My two cents is that this primarily came down since that he included the Android market 1.6 before it was "release". I think that was a big push that Google did this.
[G1 Android Development] gtrplr71:
So if I buy a car and change the carb. Am I in trouble? come on. This is BS
[G1 Android Development] afflaq:
All of my support goes out to Cyanogen, but I'm done with Android. Ordered my pre last night. I was holding on to android strictly because of their support of development like Cyanogen and the other mods here were doing, not anymore. later.
[G1 Android Development] Binary100100:
I live about a half hour drive away from their main office. I wouldn't mind attending a rally for Cyanogen if there was one right in front of the office. I wonder if anyone else is thinking about it that lives locally.
[G1 Android Development] shrtysskat8:
Cyanogen was really about the only thing saving android and the g1 for me. Looking at a bare g1 just doesnt feel right anymore. I hope this all blows over, or I might have to look at some other phones.
[G1 Android Development] Seeknay747:
If money is what Google wants, why don't they distribute the proprietery apps on the Market, or even charge for them (nominal fee). This way custom ROM developers could leave them out and we could just download them.
[G1 Android Development] punk107:
Quite a different situation, but if a problem arises that relates to the carburetor, you would likely be denied warranty service.

Imagine that you had worked very hard on writing a book, and some company copied it, and is giving it out for free. All the while you are trying to sell the book for a profit; why would anyone come to you to buy the book when they can go else where and get it free? I'm sure companies are paying some type of licensing fee to have "with Google" branded devices.

It's not fair to the parent company or the company who is paying those licensing fees that someone else can (and is) distributing the same product free of charge.

As for "targeting devices that already have the software;" this argument holds absolutely no water. What about the ADP device and (correct me if I'm wrong), but not all other HTC Dream devices are "with Google" devices.

While I fully support custom ROMs and think it's great what Cyanogen, JAC and others are doing, but I also believe that copyrights and licenses need to be respected when asked.
[G1 Android Development] imaur:
I don't want to seem that I'm anti corporation, because I'm am not. I great full for their products and the work it took to make it. I actually praise Google and HTC to anyone that will listen to me. I just think that by taking this action, it is a step backwards for the open source environment that they advertised. To me it's like really don't want they community to grow and become better. That's fine with me. But don't say we are doing things different than our competitors then do the same things that they do.
[G1 Android Development] tnleeuw:
Yes, I've certainly been wondering, WHY? Why now and not when JF put the Google apps in his first custom ROMs?

At this point it's such a wide-spread practice and everybody has been doing it, since day one of custom ROMs, that really, they should have done this long, long, long before! If they really think that they should have been doing this in the first place!!

Having ignored this wide-spread practice for such a long time has made it seem like an accepted thing in the community.

Cyanogen having his 1.6 builds out long before Google has made it much, much easier for all the application developers to make their apps Donut compatible. He's been doing Google a great service!

Why punish him now?

I guess that including the new Market app has made some people aware that 30.000 people are already using the new Market, and got them wondering where all those users of the new Market are getting it from. And that in turn must have gotten it noticed by The Lawyers.

:-(

<sigh> This is so sad :-(

But let's try to be 'constructive' about it. All the phones onto which a Cyanogen Mod is about to be installed will already have these closed-source apps anyways, and they're rooted. So perhaps the CM Updater can su into root, and extract those APK's onto the SD-Card before restarting to update.

Then on first boot, the APK's can be re-installed from wherever on the SD-Card the CM Updater saved them.

Another option would be a script or app that asks for user's permission to go off and download them, and then downloads/installs them. (Asking the user to download or not instead of all-automated makes it a user-action instead of unattended mass-distribution, presumably, and therefore hopefully safer against the lawyers...)

Making it an App instead of a startup-script means it can be totally initiated by the user, any user, easily. (Although, can you put scripts in your Apps drawer / on your desktop?? Then it's less of an issue for users to initiate the install later)

Well just my 2 cents on the issue.... I really wish Google hadn't taken this step, and I really wish that something reasonable for all can be worked out REAL SOON!

Cyanogen, you're hard work is great, delivered great ROMs, and I really hope that nothing bad will happen to you personally as result of this!!

--Tim
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
Like the majority of the above posters, you are misunderstanding the situation. Google is NOT taking issue with people installing different builds of Android on their system. Google is taking issue with Cyanogen redistributing their non-open-source apps without permission.