yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
lol lets try to keep it open source so we dont have to worry about the other big companies... but if u really want to piss them off develop how to run palm os iphone os or dare i say it winmo on thier android and use all the apps from those OS's (yeah i know at this momment we cant) lol

**Maybe** eventually we can have a subforum on here for XDAndroid lol
[G1 Android Development] bbuchacher:
here here amen
[G1 Android Development] BeRo1985:
Why doesn't we setup a own android market with a own cheap and small (v)Server cluster, where the (v)Servers are spreaded all over the world for optimal load-balancing, and where the server-side part (and not only the client-side part) will be itself fully opensource? I'm working for an network company as software developer, so far I would have the technical how-to for this.
[G1 Android Development] gurnted:
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Not sure if anybody threw this out there yet, or if it would even work. Just figured I would share a few thoughts.

Google says the closed source stuff can only be distributed by OHA members, right? So why not join the OHA?

Their site says.

It is obvious that developers here are willing to make serious and ongoing contributions. So what does it take to be a "company in the mobile ecosystem" exactly? There are a couple companies that are far less than well known who are developing Android handsets. A company can be an Association or group of persons. It does not necessarily have to be a cooperation. It could be a not for profit group of developers dedicated to improving the Android platform. True we may not be big (or even small) players in the mobile industry, but a team of dedicated developers & 30,000+ testers sure won't hurt the cause.

If we got accepted would google want a boatload of money to allow us to distribute their free apps? Or would they then be satisfied that we are at least an organized group of people who are trying to help the cause by spreading and encouraging the use of their products? Either way folks are still going to develop.
[G1 Android Development] dada21:
Folks, why are we looking for all these labor-intensive work-arounds when the actual best solution exists far easier and faster and even cheaper: Get Cyanogen to join the OHA and become a licensee of the Google apps.

All of us get GREAT profits from using CM -- what is the big deal if we donated $5-$10 per major release to him and had him sign up to be an official ROM builder? Anyone know the cost?
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
while this is not a work around persay i will donate if he can become a member
[G1 Android Development] cacahahacaca:
Same here.
[G1 Android Development] gurnted:
Almost the exact thought I had. Not sure what and if they charge, but I think it would have to be a bigger effort than 1 developer's work to get accepted. An "xda developers for a better android" type formal group would probably stand more of a chance, and would not limit the use to Cyanogen alone.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Yeah i was thinking the same thing what if we got XDA to join as a non profit (or profit) orginazation we could be the workers lol. maybe then we can sell the roms to other phone companies... haha thinkin out loud here

Not quite sure on how it would work but if google wont hire him i am damn sure a hardware company will use his android roms ir he was to join the OHA kinda like how htc uses thier own side flavor
[G1 Android Development] shaneaus:
I would donate towards Cyanogen becoming a member of OHA. However, I would rather it be small group of individuals/devs. That way if Cyanogen ever gets tired of developing the group could bring in a qualified replacement.

Pretty simple to draw up some bylaws and create a group. Then the group could gain OHA membership with the support of all of us xda-users/members. The group could develop independently or together. Others on xda-dev/Android could submit their developed products (that might offend Google if they posted without being through the OHA) to the group to be released by the group with credit for that developer.

This would ensure that

1) the members of the group were protected by being members of the OHA

2) the members of the group would know what they can legally do and what they cannot legally do as they would understand the OHA restrictions.

3) provide an avenue for others to produce themes/ROMs/etc on xda-dev and have them legally distributed.
[G1 Android Development] bbuchacher:
Save Cyanogen Mod Group now on Facebook

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=144634407186&ref=nf
[G1 Android Development] bartman1973:
Is having a large group of beta users that bad?

Ok google should be very glad to have a developer for free who makes the rom better and than a lot of people testing it so that at the end google can come up whith a good rom..... also the aps.... market for instance.... now whe are testing it and when the big crowd is getting it it's been testing already!

The big crowd would be complaining even when there is a litte fould.... now google dasn't have the responsebility for that;) (sorry for my english by the way:))

If they go on like this and cyanogen rom has his own aps, all people will say "I hve a google phone, but whit anather rom....

At the moment before i heart about this I was loving google! When this goes on i'm not sure about that!!!

Could it be that cyanogen helps google to get a better final vergion???

that would be open source..... Cyanogen bilding the experimantal and google placing the final roms (for the ones that don't like to take a little risk, and down;t wanne read a bit....

I'm not in the mood tonight!
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
"

Who can join the Open Handset Alliance?

The Open Handset Alliance brings together companies in the mobile ecosystem that each contribute to the effort in various ways. We welcome companies willing to make serious and ongoing contributions to openness in the mobile world."

I think we fit... straight from the OHA webpage

http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_faq.html

I think this would be better for another thread anyone care to make a poll or somethin

lets get this back on topic (even tho im goin off on my own thread.... lol)
[G1 Android Development] Obsidiandesire:
I'm thinking of doing a c++ based market, for apps more powerful for each device, It could work with the Slideme app too, just thought you out to know.
[G1 Android Development] Chahk:
So are Setup Wizard and Check-in Service the only two apps that prevent us from going completely legit (in google's lawyers' eyes that is)?
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
we are looking for something that *hopefully* work around the same way as the current android market does including updates rating and downloads of course at this moment so if u got what it takes by all means it is a comunity project if you need any help alot of good developers are supporting this so just post and ill try to find you some help (if u need it)
[G1 Android Development] DelsaDj:
if we use this for contact sync?? https://slideme.org/application/contactsync
[G1 Android Development] damien667:
WOAH, wait a second.

Everyone who owns an android phone has the binaries licensed to them through the EULA. Why are you guys making it more complicated than it needs to be? Just make those binaries something that everyone that downloads a update.zip from you needs to extract from their own phones like the android source already does for the GL libraries and camera libraries... :confused:
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
this may be a good idea... did you try it out? If not can some one test this and see how well it works

WITHOUT

google sync and get back to me

While this may be true this project is to replace google not to go through a loop hole or other alternative
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Double post.
[G1 Android Development] NPS_CA:
Another Alternative is Cyanogen licenses the Google experience applications and CHARGEs on ROM's that include that... meaning we pay for his ROM initially - upgrades are then included

The main issue here is the Google apps not under Open source were distributed with no permission from Google.

Google/Android does allow the base source tree to be used WITHOUT license... Google experience apps DO require a license.
[G1 Android Development] jokersax11:
ok common sense tells you google has no problem with cyanogen. take for example the fact that bfs and other tweaks from xda is starting to show up in googles source. the only problem is with the release of the market. not donut or maps or anything else. the market is set up different and wasnt ready for release. this is googles way of asking cyanogen to cease and desist(stop please for now) they want to release there own market. they are responsible for providing support and back end for the market. some retard dev somewhere didnt like that he had to change his program for everyone using donut. people were complaining to app devs about donut before the 1.6 sdk was even out. google wants to keep app devs. because they are the bread and butter of android. think about it. 30000 people have donut, a new market, and a custom rom with some issues google has no control over. now take the millions that have cupcake and whose side are you on. yes google loves what we are doing because thats what open source does, however they have app devs and millions to think about not just us.

its as simple as this google needs to make it clear what is ready and what is not. if they ask nicely honest devs like cyanogen will try. if someone from google is reading please be honest in your intentions for us in what is ready or not. i.e. the market. be clear or you will lose support.
[G1 Android Development] GEN3RIC:
If I had to guess, you're all making a huge deal out of this when not necessary. Google probably wants it licensed properly. Not that hard.
[G1 Android Development] buckbullstallion:
LINUX!!

Okay, should there not be a way to port over Linux applications. such as thunderbird, mozilla, and other cool open source apps. after all this is a linux kernal. so can the devs make ports for these applications. i mean and maybe have dev make a repository aka market. My idea would be to see if UBUNTU would like to perhaps develop a KERNAL for the Device.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
As it says on the first post this is not here to get back at google just a new googless flavor of android thanks for your input tho
[G1 Android Development] NPerry:
Unfortunately, not as easy as that.
[G1 Android Development] ttabbal:
It would be nice if it were that simple. Load up Firefox or Thunderbird and check the RAM usage. Firefox uses more RAM than the G1 has, total. There's no way to run a full featured distro like Ubuntu on a G1, it doesn't have the CPU or RAM required for that. However, there are a LOT of things we CAN do. :D
[G1 Android Development] joners:
open market place

What i dont get was that google made a reasonable amount of fuss when they launched android, not necessarily making an issue about it being open source, rather an open platform. More specifically that anyone could create an app and have it on the market place.

What i would like to see is for google to make the market place app open, or allow third party front ends to connect to the market place.

The you could have googlemail, contact sync, google calendar, maps etc all as closed source apps for free on the market place.
[G1 Android Development] ttabbal:
OK then. I'll see if I can find more data about what the sign-up wizard really does. I don't remember it doing much other than telling you about the phone and getting your login data for Google. I'm sure there's some data it writes out for the other apps like GMail to use though, as they don't ask for your user/pass for the google services they provide.

Android already has some nice IPC stuff built in for apps to talk to each other. I believe that all lives in the open source stuff, so we don't need to worry about it, other than perhaps providing standard names and such.

For syncing, my first thought is to create a generic interface we can add plugins to. So we can have a Google one, but you could choose to use a different provider if you prefer. I'm sure there are other services we can sync to that would be happy to have us.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Sounds like a good plan there i was under the impression that the setup wizard was somehow connected to the accual Phone which would explain why you cant make a call during the set up process (at least everytime i have tried :rolleyes:) and that is good to hear about the talking between apps being out in the open.
[G1 Android Development] X-i-phoner:
I have looked around and maybe I just cant find it but, is there a build that transfers contacts to sim? As far as i know there is no way to save your contacts to the sim they have to be synced.
[G1 Android Development] realjumy:
Ok, I have been reading and I think that the best is a completly plain ROM, no market or "close" applications. We must give the chance to flash a full-free-rom.

After this, if anybody wants market or any other apps, he must look for them in "the dark side", I mean, non-legal apps, but under his own risk and responsibility. Cookers will be safe.

It's not hard. Don let die the exploring and going-ahead of these ROMs.

Sorry for my bad english :P
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
hey there is a way on non hero roms cant remember where in settings it was
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
hey bro u missed the first post :P this isnt about loop holes and work arounds this is a FULL open source android flavor
[G1 Android Development] chilln73:
This definitely seems like the easiest thing to do.

Create ROMs without google apps and then everybody just install the google apps themselves.
[G1 Android Development] amlwaycooljr:
As far as I understand it the sign-up wizard does three things. It allows you to enter your APN information, it asks for your Gmail account for syncing purposes (contacts, gmail, etc), and it provides a small tutorial.

Seeing as we want a googless completely open-source solution we can devise our own way to sync contacts, mail and whatnot. Therefore we would control the log-in process and would not need to know where the information is currently stored, after all we would be using custom made open-source apps that we designed so we can store the data where we see fit.

The APN information is important but can be added via the settings menu. It would be nice to have a way to configure the configure the APNs on first boot and not require digging through the system settings menu.

It might also do some small technical things that I am unaware of.

We could take a leap of faith and try making a rom that does not include a sign-up wizard (after running it through the emulator of course)

As for the direction this project is going, the thread seems to be in a mess, some plain out bashing google while others aiming for a truly open-source android ROM. I am for the later, the way I see it a completely open-source ROM was bound to happen eventually seeing as Google plans on dropping support for the Dream.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
I agree it is quite a mess in here... and people need to understand while we used what google did as a kickstart for the project it is not meant to piss google off just get them out of the picture. i will try to clean up the first post when i get home (im at work)

Thanks for the input on the setup that will set us straight in that department maybe we can get an app developer to create an app that will set the apn... a basic drop down list is all that is needed with the main carriers to start with.
[G1 Android Development] littlechucky:
I`m a noob on all this google things, but android is, for me, a gui like all the other`s. They are typing the commands in shell for me. So I don't need to know the correct spelling, nor the commands. I Think the setup-wizard is easily spyed out. Because it set's the configuration for the phone. All this is deleted by wipeing the phone. So the config and other informations the wizards does, has to be located in the files, that the wipe does delete.

The contact's on the ROM's, at this moment, is synced from the google account. So in Google you can export the complete contacts.

At this point you can reach your stored contacts by making a routine that takes the contacts off the stored export on sd-card file and merge them into the phone database.

Google maps isn't the real problem for me, because andnav has a good solution for navigation and it's free. So i don't think it would this heavy for them to get us a maps app like google maps, for they are doing more heavyer coding. We could get in contact with them.

As I'm a noob, I think a google free rom can't be that difficult.

We have many developers and coders here...
[G1 Android Development] irrenhaus:
Since the settings app can set an apn there should be an information in it how to do it. So it can't be such complicated. I will look at the settings sources and then I will look what I can do.

Maybe you should setup some kind of list who does what or so in you first post... Just an idea :)
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Alright Ill look into that thanks for the suggestion I did just update it some what
[G1 Android Development] doooshty:
WOW...I suggested this in a post last night and told jjcd51590 to go ahead and run with it while I was at work all day today. I had a lot of catching up to do.

As has been said before, this is not to "stick it to google". The C & D was more of a wake up call. It opened a lot of people's eyes to what many, including myself already knew, Android is Open Source in the loosest sense of the word. It's open source for corporations to use but not for you and I. It's like a country club...the buffet is free, as long as you're a member.

This project is for exactly what the name states...To make Android truly open source. Google has it's proprietary parts so deep inside, that it can't even remove them.

I like where this is headed, I have emailed Haykuro and Bratag, who as you may remember pumped out many quality apps in the begining of the market. This can be done and we will do it.

I also agree with Cyan joining the OHA, but that should not replace this goal.

Thank you everyone...I look forward to this greatly.

Doooshty

Hit me on twitter @dustin_aka_D for any questions. Thanks
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Ur signature looks better then mine :P jk

Anyway I didnt contact any of them cause i figured they would blow me off

Anyone think we should see about bringing jesusfreke into this i know hes been a way but u never know.
[G1 Android Development] Evervoid:
I would love to help in this project in any way possible. I'm not amazing at coding, and I haven't touched C++ in year either. I'd love to be a tester and perhaps app developer though I don't have much background.

Open Source FTW! :)
[G1 Android Development] amlwaycooljr:
I agree a to-do list and who's working on it is needed. We also need to decide what the ultimate goal is in detail. We know we want a completely open-source ROM but do we want to remove all google components or just the non-open source components. For example it's been stated that the browser and calendar are open-source although I'm not sure how true that is. Do we want to replace these apps as well??

Once we know what we want to keep we can then start the process of designing apps that replace those that we do not want in the ROM.

What I'm saying is we need to know what we want to keep and what we want to replace. Then we can start the actual work.
[G1 Android Development] irrenhaus:
OK, I looked at the settings app.

APN selection, creation and editing is really simple, all it needs are a few database changes. So this really is no problem.

I don't know which way the setup app is integrated into the system. A simple method could be that the apn settings app listen for a phone start and starts, if it isn't configured yet or if it is the first start of the system. We could even let it look better than the original one ;).

Greetz

edit:

Well, the calendar and browser are both in the git repository of android. I didn't look further at it but if they are not licensed seperatly (almost all android stuff is the apache license 2.0 as far as i know) they can be used without problems. Also I think it would be better just to replace the apps which are closed source.

At the moment I would like to ignore all google stuff on my phone but that cannot be the goal since we want to use the google stuff - but at some places the frontent needs a change to open source :)
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
Alright thats good to hear lets see if we can get an app developer to make it user friendly

and i am about to go to an astros game people be back sorta late may pop in for a second but thats it i have a minor to-do list on the first post if u feel you can help on something post here and i will add you to the list...

LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!
[G1 Android Development] farmatito:
8. Browser

Few alternatives here. Which are open source?

a) We can use the Android Browser as it is open source

(android/cupcake/packages/apps/Browser)

b) Steel

c) Opera 4.2 (5.0 beta?)
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
I was unaware is steel infact open source?
[G1 Android Development] farmatito:
Not open source but freely downloadable at

http://www.kolbysoft.com/downloads/steel.apk

but we could use the android browser instead which is open source.
[G1 Android Development] testing567:
I vote to keep the Android browser, or at least Loccy's version. It's built off the open source web kit, so Google has no claim on it. Also, if Adobe ever officially releases flash for android, everyone is going to want the stock browser anyway. Although I doubt the plug in itself will be open source.
[G1 Android Development] jjcd51590:
It looks like stock/Loccy's version is perfered
[G1 Android Development] farmatito:
So let us use the android browser or a modded version of it.

We should update the first post.
[G1 Android Development] amlwaycooljr:
3. I believe there are some "open-source" type maps that we may be able to

use I don't remember what they are called at this moment but Andnav uses them.

4. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Meebo or ebuddy for that matter is open-source so we may want to look into another option.

7. Do we want to continue using google as the backbone for syncing?? Meaning do we want Google to hold our contact info? We could potentially create something like what motoblur offers and allow contact syncing between multiple sources such as facebook, myspace etc.

10. I can provide some webspace if needed.

edit:

I agree the stock browser would work just fine