yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
While you're obviously fully entitled to your opinion on that point, you need to realise that it is a matter of opinion and that an awful lot of people don't agree with you on that point. The advantage of pinch-zooming is that lets you easily control both where you zoom and also by how much. Most other methods either only allow one of those two things to be controlled, or they require much more complicated interactions which slow you down. Use of a zoom-bar, for example, lets you control how much you zoom but not where; double-tap zooming controls what you zoom in on, but not by how much.

It's also important to realise that these approaches are not mutually exclusive: just because you can pinch-zoom doesn't mean you necessarily can't double-tap zoom.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
It's simple GLBenchmark is designed to check openGL ES 1.1 graphics so how can it show openGL ES 2.0?!

Even iphone 3GS shows only openGL ES 1.1 and it is confirmed to have 2.0(if you don't believe check GLBenchmark website).

Until there will be benchmark program that will check 2.0 graphics don't expect any other program to show you that the device has openGL ES 2.0 cause it wasn't designed to show it!!

Hopefully this will end of discussion once and for all!!!

It's not problem of drivers but the program. Drivers are in both devices and are used by WMP and by HTC Album(in case of HD2). Coreplayer on TG01 is an OEM version and not retail that is why it can access hardware where the retail one will have to do with DirectShow codecs which means that if the device supports H/W acceleration CP will be able to take benefit from it through using DirectShow.

You can't cook drivers if they are already on the device!
[HD2 General] jonneymendoza:
Dont forget, Android is a new platform and was built with mobile devices in mind
[HD2 General] Benjiro:
Problem is Wishmaster, those GLBenchmark, even when they only do the tests in OpenGL ES 1.1, they need to show a much higher score? A GPU thats 20 times faster, even on its OpenGL ES 1.1 instruction sets, can not end up being 40 times the slower then expected.

A x51v did around 4000 score, yet the Snapdragon devices show only +2000 scores. But, that 2700g thats used, is 20 times slower then the ATI on the snapdragon ( based on the specs ).

So, it makes no sense that the results are so bad, even when testing in OpenGL ES 1.1.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
If you read regular (and sometimes tech) press what do you see mentioned? iPhone, Blackberry in the US and recently Android 99% of the time. Some of it is justified - Blackberry is huge among business users in some countries, iPhone is the most popular single phone model in history, but Android is kind of an inconsequential also-ran ATM. Symbian is way bigger than any of these and probably even all of these together plus WM, but I doubt your bank releases applications for that OS. So no, it's not ease of development and even not user base per se. Part of it is fad, part of it is a convenient sales channel (AppStore), part of it is... well, some crowd behavior, I'd say.
[HD2 General] X1-owner:
You can't dismiss the fact that the ease of creating apps with a slick and shiny user interface on the iphone makes it a much more appealing platform. Many professionally developed WinMo apps are downright ugly even compared to amateur developed iphone apps. Iphone apps are probably often released partly as PR instruments. You can easily create a WinMo app that does the same thing, but to make it look as good you'd have to spend much more time.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Even the newer sgx530 used in omap3xxx series has lower scores than 2700g which is based on PowerVR MBX lite and it is supposed to be more powerful. How can you explain that? It's the same case with z430 used in snapdragon.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
That would depend on what kind of applications we are talking about. Should it really matter for a bank? For some homebrew crapware - yes, certainly. For a lot of useful applications like RSS readers etc. - yes, that's a plus, but they exist for WM, not being as flashy of course.

That would certainly count as a reason for a bank to make an iphone app.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Crappy drivers as usual?
[HD2 General] depl0y:
Well, why aren't we creating something flashy like that for the WM phones then? Sure it needs a good framework to start with, but most of it can be build on top of the .NET CF. I am kinda n00bish to CF.NET, but I want to do something like the interface on the iPhone.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Even on omap3xxx based devices?! As I shown you sgx530 used on omnia HD is slower than older n95 even though it shouldn't. The same goes for z430.

So I ask once again. How can you explain that?
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
It will be slow. .Net is poor performer as far as drawing is concerned. You want native stuff for that, and hardware accelerated to make things run smoothly.

Well, nothing forbids Omnia from having crappy drivers. Although I agree, that does look strange.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
The same problem occurs on Sony Ericsson Satio. No informations on nokia n900 cause there isn't any benchmark available for maemo but I've seen it running quake III at WVGA with smooth consistent framerate although AF and AA were disabled.

Until we see some native GL ES 2.0 benchmarks there is no point in discussing graphics performance where we know it's not using hardware to the fullest. GL1.1 is probably run in some kind of emulation mode or something like that considering that 2.0 is not backwards compatible with 1.1.
[HD2 General] X1-owner:
Well that sucks. If 2.0 is not backwards compatible, and 1.1 is not supported on the device, that means there is no way to get good performance with apps coded for 1.1
[HD2 General] kersh:
Another thing I want to know if is this device will have the same lag of the Diamond/HD that makes the GPS totally useless even with copilot or igo and ridiculous with tomtom
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
Hold on, where are you getting this information from? First of all the Dell Axim x51v doesn't support OpenGL ES 1.1 (since the Intel 2700G doesn't). Secondly, where are you getting the numbers for the HD2 from?
[HD2 General] prank1:
Big news, HandTec have just lowered the price of their Pre-Order HD2

You can now get it for £496.90 INCLUDING VAT

http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php?xProd=2463

I think they lowered their price to complete with Play.com, who are taking pre-orders for £499.99 inc. VAT
[HD2 General] hx4700 user:
But that girl is a dork. She is waving the phone all over the place and you can hardly see anything properly.
[HD2 General] prank1:
i kept refreshing the o2 page, and at about 12:05 am it started comming up with a maintenence page... maybe they are updating the website with the hd2?
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
Hopefully they are, but the O2 website goes down for maintenence during the night quite a lot for no obvious reason.
[HD2 General] ZenithUK:
The murmurings on the HD2 thread on the O2 forum are that stock availability starts this week.

I'll be on the phone to them first thing in the morning. :)
[HD2 General] milka:
Errr... sorry, you've gone right over my head or through my ears. Not getting you in the slightest. :confused:
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
Spambot - look at his sig.
[HD2 General] richie_jones:
Still Nowt on the o2 website....
[HD2 General] skotten:
I was in Germany this weekend and went by an 02 store, so of cause i asked if they knew anything about the upcomming HD2. Their answer was "Do you mean Touch HD? We don't have any HTC phones at the moment...."

G*damn useless muppets!
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Its probably already been said but I was walking down Stratford shopping centre in the UK when I popped into the 02 store and read about the HD2 in their glossy promotional brochure, over 2 or 3 sides.
[HD2 General] owz206:
Over on the O2 forum people are being told to phone back around 2 to 3 this afternoon and they can place an order today.

Apparently there's a fair amount of interest in the handset according to one of the customer service reps.
[HD2 General] adendum:
According to the o2.de rep i talked to last week, they have no plans for the HD2, for now.

Only available products from HTC are: Touch Pro2, Diamond, Diamond2 and XDA Guide. Only model from htc that is comingsoon, is Tatoo.

T-Mobile and Vodafone have no information whatsoever regarding the HD2 = (
[HD2 General] twisted-pixel:
anyone else noticed that the expansys expected delivery date has slipped from the 11th to the 14th?
[HD2 General] Bagpuss:
Just spoke to o2 retentions, and their system stills says that it will be available 'week commencing 19th October' with store availability on 23rd.

They still don't have any pricing or contract details, though.

Frankly, I'll believe it when I see it. Reckon mid-November is now more realistic :-(

Bagpuss.
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
Phoned O2 this morning (just to check) and got told possibly this afternoon after 3pm but no definites. Personally I don't think that O2 customer services have a clue (not their fault but they only get to know when the system gets stock from the sound of it). So I'm not holding my breath - though I will be on the phone at 3pm obviously.
[HD2 General] chris10230:
Since they said an october release they have to do it by the end of the month the only thing is i hope is that they dont rush it and have a really buggy rom on it... As that will be very annoying for the next few months till hard-spl comes along. I can hope!
[HD2 General] mr_Ray:
This is Expansys you're talking about. Be glad that the 14th they're talking about is still in 2009.

Sometimes I wish HTC did a better job of keeping their upcoming devices secret, even up to the day of availability. This cursed waiting is really annoying me.
[HD2 General] kersh:
expansys uk have the same delivery, 11 nov.

Availability: Expected release date 11 Nov 09
[HD2 General] twisted-pixel:
then they have adjusted it again...it was 14th this morning!!
[HD2 General] Ruudfood:
OHH NOO!!!111!!! I HAZZ TO WAITZ 1 MOREZZ WEEK!!111!!! LOLZZ!!!11!!

Come on people, waiting another few days is not going to kill you!
[HD2 General] Alfredos:
Yes it is, it's frustrating :eek:
[HD2 General] vinokirk:
Guys I have some sad news to report. At 11:23am this morning, twisted-pixel aka John Timberbutton, passed away. My heart is with his family at this time. The cause of death seems to be from having to wait one more week for his beloved phone to come out.
[HD2 General] dugald5:
:eek: That was coooolllllddd. I almost skipped the last sentence and was about to post my condolences!
[HD2 General] Ruudfood:
:D (10 chars)
[HD2 General] twisted-pixel:
my name isn't john anything!!

but I am close to death as I await my new phone.

and....the original release date was banaded as 11th October...so it's not a week we're having to wait..it's a month!!
[HD2 General] ToddeSwe:
Yeah the worst video i've ever seen, but you get an idea of how big the extended bat pack is anyway :)
[HD2 General] ToddeSwe:
In Sweden katshing has it on the 4:th of November :)

http://www.katshing.se/prod/prod.asp?aid=21022
[HD2 General] InfernokingS:
In the Netherlands only 1 store has the hd2 on their page

http://www.phonehouse.nl/verwachte-telefoons/

Here it's listed at november 1st, and when i called a local store they said it would be out by the end of the month and for a more specific date i could call later this week or early next week.
[HD2 General] turt:
yeah, right...

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/245670/htc-hd2-zwart.html
[HD2 General] kersh:
http://www.smartphoneshop.nl/product/78628/htc-hd2-uk.html
[HD2 General] BadMonkey:
Insight UK say they are expecting one TODAY!!!

http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=HTCTCHHD2&nbs_search=K%3Dhd2%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

I think they could be fibbing though...:D
[HD2 General] Ruudfood:
Quick, somebody grab it before rigor mortis sets in! ;) :D
[HD2 General] Paeps:
this phone looks really nice, i am looking for a new one, want to by me one in december, so i think it would be this baby or the htc touch pro 2, do not know know^^
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
I've been doing a little background reading on this. What I suspect is the origin of this rumour is that the CorePlayer people have done an OEM version of CorePlayer for the Toshiba TG01. This, according to some reports, does enable hardware acceleration on the TG01's Snapdragon GPU, and there may possibly be other OEM versions on other Snapdragon devices which do the same. However, AFAIK the HTC HD2 is not one of these devices, and there won't be an OEM version of CorePlayer shipped with it. It is also important to note that there will never be hardware GPU acceleration on Qualcomm chips if you're using the commercially-available version of CorePlayer, because Qualcomm will not license the necessary libraries for general commercial distribution.

So, if I'm right, Qualcomm and/or HTC have screwed us again, just as they did on so many previous devices. :(

It's true to say, of course, that the Snapdragon CPU is so fast that Coreplayer will probably run very well on it, even without GPU acceleration.
[HD2 General] Biffy:
Ordered, just in case they're not fibbing. :D

Although I'm probably not first in the queue anyway...
[HD2 General] rorydaredkign:
Called O2 this morning and they said call back about 3. It says on the system its released today but stock wont be updated till 2 or 3 according to the rep. Sadly i am in a lecture so no calling till 3 :(

But on the plus side, I have a staff account so have a seperate number woop!
[HD2 General] adendum:
Keep it cool, i've been waiting for o2 3g or even edge in my area for the last 2 years, every time they tell me it should be available within the next 3 months ^^

Not to mention that i've been waiting for my new connection at home for about 2 months now... T-COM fracked me up bad,

but seriously... this topic is for talking about the awesome phone, not about how close to death people are, because the release date is coming closer and closer, until it's past release day and then the waiting for the post begins ; )

On topic: This should be a worthy technology upgrade to my nokia e52 (have it, since i managed to trash my touch). From my point of view, the TP2 is not worth it, similar cpu performance, only difference is that it has a bigger touch screen and a qwerty keyboard...
[HD2 General] owz206:
There's rumors that O2 are announcing 5 new phones today at 14.30, one of the being the HD2.

Hope it's true, cant wait to get my hands on one of these beuties.
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
Indeed - their stock systems are due to be refreshed in the next hour so hopefully we shall soon be ordering HD2s. The O2 forum seems to have more information than here, for once - here's a link for people who want to keep an eye on them: http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27501&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=135

[EDIT]Question was answered on O2 forums.[/EDIT]
[HD2 General] Bagpuss:
Just spoke to o2 customer services again, and now they are saying that the handset has been delayed until the 26th October.

Also spoke to retentions again, and they are now saying they don't know when they will be getting the phone.

Oh well. Time for a Palm Pre then :->

Bagpuss.
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
It's pathetic, isn't it? Does information pass around their customer services department via chinese whispers?
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
The same goes for every other handset maker which uses some hardware acceleration for video playback.

Without any kind of public documentation there is no chance that programs will be able to take benefit of the hardware.

So if HTC releases device based on OMAP3 will you say that they screw us too? Until companies like qualcomm, TI, samsung, nvidia, etc. won't release documentations about their SoC's don't expect software developers to take advantage of specific hardware.

If you think that way about this situation you can say that they screw us all the time. Which wouldn't be too far from truth :p
[HD2 General] seeraeuber:
condolences - waited too long

so was I -
[HD2 General] rorydaredkign:
Just called again and she had clearly been asked the same over and over as I didnt even have to call it the HTC HD2, HD2 sufficed. But not in stock yet.
[HD2 General] Ruudfood:
There were reports a few weeks ago that the ROM would not be finalised until 16th Oct which would have been last Friday. If this is the case there is no way that any supplier would have these units in stock yet.

For those who are knocking on death's door I'd say keep the respirator, heart monitor and drip on because it's gonna be a slow and painful one!
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
It's possible that they've been working with O2 in some way to speed up the launch.

HTC did say in its official press release: "The HTC HD2 will be available later this month with selected operators across Europe, before rolling out to other regions in the coming months."

AFAIK, O2 UK is the only operator that has shown signs of releasing the HD2 before November...
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
Not sure if I can wait any longer - might fall back onto the Omnia 2. Somebody persuade me not to please :(
[HD2 General] wizzzard:
Don't do it :D
[HD2 General] chris10230:
NOOOOO its only another few weeks at the most, Have strength the wait will be worth it in the end!
[HD2 General] Alfredos:
Just look at a picture of a HD2, it's a beast

The Omnia isn't

p.s. Just saw a video of the omnia 2, PLEASE DON'T
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
You know what -you helped me resist.... I think I can make it. Thank you! The Omnia 2 is poo poo poo. On the o2 forum some people have been told a month if not longer!!
[HD2 General] prank1:
ugh... I hate waiting.

Did O2 take this long to update their precious Palm Pre to their website?
[HD2 General] wilbur:
Had a chat with T-Mobile UK business customer services who told me his systems now showed a "target" launch date of 6th November for the HD2 :)

not long now (though how many T-Mobile launches have slipped back over the years)
[HD2 General] dugald5:
Someone on the o2 forum is saying he just ordered one from a Preston branch:

http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27501&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=225
[HD2 General] DMAND:
You'll find they were joking!!!

Maybe tommorow who knows, wont be today though
[HD2 General] prank1:
Its all lies.

Read on..
[HD2 General] bym007:
I can't even access the o2 forums at the moment...
[HD2 General] X1-owner:
If I understand correctly, there is no standard framework for hardware acceleration in areas like video playback. I'm hoping for better news for 3D graphics. OpenGL 2.0 is supposed to be supported with proper drivers, so any app coded for it should benefit from full HW acceleration.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
That's the problem. The only open standard for video is openMAX but I haven't seen any device taking advantage from it. Fortunately that's not the problem with graphics.

OpenGL ES is openGL ES the only difference could come from custom drivers and different architecture nothing more. Hopefully standard graphic stack for GL that will come with WM7 will make it fully cross-compatible just like it is now on iphone.
[HD2 General] hx4700 user:
Good news on pre-orders

I ordered my HD2 from Clove at £475 and got a bit worried when I saw that it was being sold in others cheaper. The great news is that it is in the Clove website now at £439. So I emailed them to check that I'd be getting that reduced price. (Prices are before VAT before you get too excited!) One better:-

James

Thanks for the email

You will only be charged the price at launch, so yes you price should be reduced!

Regards

Sales Team

Clove Technology

TEL: +44 (0)1202 552936

FAX: +44 (0)1202 552937

Email: sales@clove.co.uk

Website: www.clove.co.uk

Blog: blog.clove.co.uk
[HD2 General] sluden:
I think this is pretty funny for me living in the small country sweden and we will get the phone earlier than UK. more than one place will have it in 4th november. i have pre ordered mine. This will be at a cost of 600 euro,
[HD2 General] bym007:
Just came off the phone from O2 Upgrades and someone with a confident tone informed me that the HD2 launch has now been put off till early November 2009 effectively. They do not hold any more information than that at the moment. She advised me to call them back around that time to place an order.

On a side note, she confirmed the launch of LG Chocolate (ver 2 was it ?) today. Similarly, SE Satio being launched tomorrow and SE ana-l or what ever it is day after tomorrow.
[HD2 General] sluden:
early november 2010!!!
[HD2 General] niknik76:
Go Sweden!

But what the f*ck is up with Denmark? Nothing is happening her yet..... And there was an article about the HD2 being too 'special' and therefore the carriers where not quite sure if they would take it in.. I hope they will come to their senses though
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
But isn't this "custom drivers" problem the crux of the issue here? OpenGL (or DirectX) may be standard and fine, but somebody needs to provide drivers that will enable these APIs for specific hardware. As far as I'm aware, that's something nobody's willing to do because Qualcomm charges money for using the features of their SOCs.

You're saying that MS will pay money to Qualcomm or what? :eek:
[HD2 General] sluden:
thats the penalty for winning over us in football. hehe.

strange that sweden is so early, they usually aint.

specially not before uk
[HD2 General] ToddeSwe:
Yeah is'nt it great :) BUT, the date is preliminary on katshing.

What retailer did you order your from?
[HD2 General] sluden:
i ordered it in a store in my city. katshing has it at 4th november and so does mobillagret. so there is more than one. hopefully it will arrive in time...
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
XDA is posted my message twice...

See next post.
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
Right, it's time for someone to clean up the O2-related mess. I went an O2 store, and got a person there to show me everything he had to do with the HD2. He went onto fomr sort of intranet and downloaded a spreadsheet that had all of O2's phones listed - the HD2 was listed as released, but he showed me a section of the spreadsheet that has one column per week and one row per phone, and the cells are colour coded to show WTF is happening to various phones. The HD2's cell for the week beginning on the 19th (i.e. this week) was yellow - according to the key, that means "product launch". The cell for the week beginning on the 26th (next week) was green, indicating that shops should have, and be selling the phone then. The guy told me that the first batches of HD2s will probably be making their way through O2's various distribution systems during this week and might even become available online or by phone before the end of the week, and the HD2 should be widely available by next Monday.

That agrees with reports that the HD2 is showing on stock systems as launched, but with no stock, and some people on O2's phones saying that it has been delayed. It also agrees with the ROM being finished on the 16th, so I reckon what I was told (and saw for myself) is the truth. Disagree/argue if you like. IDC. I will have a HD2 within about a week.

Oh, and BTW, there's another O2 magazine with the HD2 in it now. It lists it as having only 320MB of internal storage, for some reason...
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Yeah that is true(don't know if this is the whole truth but part of it for sure) but probably other companies like nvidia(remember the GoForce 5500 drivers problem), TI do the same. Probably the price is the problem here...

No, what I meant was that I hope that MS will make openGL hardware acceleration a mandatory feature which will lead to good drivers or they will make sure that devices without proper drivers won't be released. Think of a certification program - Windows Mobile 7 certified.

This is something Da_G hinted few times already and covers with leaked chassis specs for WM7.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
That would indeed be nice, but I'm kind of suspicious - why would they promote OpenGL instead of Direct3D?
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Because it is more widespread and would make development easier.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Well, let's hope MS will find this argument equally convincing. :) I'm all for it.