yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
If you don't know about NEON in snapdragon you don't know anything about it.

Snapdragon SoC consists of custom ARMv7 instruction based CPU known as Scorpion and it has 128bit NEON(just like cortex A9!!) part which they call VeNum - standard Cortex A8 has only 64bit NEON so considering that 64bit version can handle 720p mpeg4 playback think what is possible with 128bit version.

NEON support will be cross platform and will work on symbian(omnia HD), WM(HD2), iPhone 3GS and probably on MAEMO and android.

NEON has nothing to do with DSP hardware acceleration. NEON is more of a CPU H/W acceleration(think of SSE and MMX for x86) for multimedia/graphics purpose.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
I did some reading between my original question and my next post - I admit I still don't know anything about Snapdragon architecture. The information about NEON on Snapdragon was from times when the latter was still being developed. Also, what would prevent Qualcomm from making this instruction set available for a separate fee?

I went to the Corecodec site, and where they talk about NEON support they say that it will enable 720p on the iPhone - nothing about WinMo.

I won't insist that what I'm saying is true, I just don't know enough to be confident, so if you have links about what you're saying I would greatly appreciate it.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
The important question is not so much what NEON is, but whether Qualcomm will allow anyone to make use of it. It seems likely that they won't; their strange business model is to sell people chips that have all kinds of amazing functions and then not permit them to actually use any of those functions in a real device. ("Of course we'll sell you all the cars you need, but we won't let you actually switch the engines on; that's not a problem, is it?")
[HD2 General] 6ak:
That is what has happend with TOUCH HD! TOUCH HDs CPU has ability to for hardware acceleration "on chip", but this part of chip isnt activated nor are writen drivers for it... If i am not mistaken... I read about this here on this forum...
[HD2 General] chris10230:
i think that has happened for many many devices, as the polaris had next to no 3d driver and even the 2d driver that it has is pants. Maybe HTC have seen this and will give good drivers but i wouldnt bet on it.
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
Well, give this you'd hope HTC would provide some sort of driver for the HD2 otherwise they're not keeping up with the competition.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
When has that ever had any influence on HTC in the past?

It's not just a question of "drivers" anyway. The way a driver works is that there is a pre-defined library of function calls. An application calls things from the library; the responsibility of the driver is then to act as an intermediary between the library functions and the hardware: so, when you call library function X, signal Y gets sent to the hardware in question.

The issue with, say, video playback is not that there is no driver but that there is no library. The application can't be written to invoke the necessary function calls because no one is willing to tell the application writer which functions he needs to call! Installing a driver on the phone wouldn't make any difference, because the software isn't designed to call anything that hooks into the driver.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
I am afraid, never...I think that HTC have more profit in other devices they are producing and mobile phones are just so, that they are... I wrote email to HTC SUPPORT about those drivers for Qualcom chip, and they answered, that drivers wont be distributed (atleast for HD) and that device (touch hd) is as it is.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Guys as I said NEON is integral part of the CPU itself and is not property of Qualcomm it was designed by ARM! They can't block it! I

If the program can take advantage of NEON instruction there is now way you can block it or disable it! NEON is not something qualcomm can disable if you not pay it is their whether they like it or not but considering that it was their decision to make it 128bit instead of 64 indicates that they are going to use it!

It seems you can't forget about msm7201 and how unimpressive it was but you don't admit that it's not qualcomms fault but partially HTC is to blame - if they didn't want to pay for drivers it was their fault not qualcomms.

GPU drivers were there although the performance wasn't as good as people would want it to be, QTv acceleration for videos was there and was used by youtube player, HTC album and WMP - there are even videos proving that showing 640x480 mpeg4 video at 1500kbps being playbacked smoothly in WMP.

Snapdragons power proves that situation similar to msm7201 won't happen again. Drivers are there as it was proven with TG01 if HD2 doesn't have those drivers it is HTC's fault not Qualcomms.

Details about Scorpion CPU

P.S. If someone starts once again with video drivers please check what you're saying twice and not start the whole discussion again. Just because 3rd party programs don't use it it doesn't mean it's not there.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Both Qualcomm and HTC are to blame. Qualcomm charge too much for the code libraries; HTC screw their customers over by not paying.

That would be perfectly acceptable if the on-board video applications were capable of playing any video clip that you could reasonably want to play. But the fact that they don't support codecs like divx or xvid means that this approach is pitifully inadequate. And yes, HTC is to blame for that; they've licensed the necessary libraries for their own use, but can't be *rsed to make the onboard applications do the job they need to do, unlike, say, Samsung or Toshiba; that wouldn't be a problem if they were willing to pay for redistributable libraries, but they aren't, and it's HTC's customers that end up paying the price.
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
Right, sorry for my naivety. That's cleared that one up for me! :)
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
It would be possible to write a video player supporting both divx and xvid cause QTv supports mpeg4(remember both divx and xvid are in fact only mpeg4 stream) so HTC is the one to blame cause they decided to screw the customers not qualcomm.

To those that think I defend qualcomm. It's partially true. I defend them only when I know someone is mistaken. I don't like them for whole msm7xxx family of SoC's cause it can't keep up with the competition. It lacks good GPU and the video performance isn't best in class but this is where snapdragon comes. It has very good GPU and it supports 720p(if the device doesn't play 720p it means that the ODM didn't include any kind of proper video player just like in HD2) besides the CPU is best in class when it comes to performance and power consumption. It is even better than A8 and it will continue to improve with snapdragon2 starting with msm8xxx and qsg8672.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
EDIT: Double post. Mod please delete.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
This is true, I personally didn't "blame" Qualcomm, but rather was displeased with their greediness somewhat. But then again, HTC is to blame because they chose this supplier.

If what you're saying about NEON is true that would indeed be great news.

Touching the DivX/Xvid codecs missing in WMP - I wonder if something like K-lite codec pack would be theoretically possible for WM. That would be a blessing really.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
I have seen somewhere in net and actually used the rmvb codec to play real video files in my Touch HD with windows media player.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
That part about greediness wasn't ever confirmed(at least I don't remember some kind of confirmation from trust worthy source) it was just a speculation that HTC didn't decide to buy some functions because they consider their devices more business than consumer oriented so it didn't need GPU and video acceleration.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Didn't CoreCodec guys say that Qualcomm wanted them to pay for QTV support?

Anyway, I agree with you that HTC is "to blame" for all this since they supply the product. Whether they didn't want to pay money to Qualcomm or DivX or simply invest into driver development, they have been selling phones that are worse than my old Asus 525 was in terms of video performance.
[HD2 General] ahdai:
Yes, there is rmvb codec you can install in this forum.(not this thread)

I was also surprised to see my friend's new Omnia II out of the box able to play rmvb!

Oh i am also waiting for the HD2 lol
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
And why in the world would I need an rmvb codec? How does it qualify as a real-life standard?
[HD2 General] vinokirk:
Anyone else seen the Tmobile comming soon section? http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/coming-soon/

They have the HTC Touch 2 (2.8" screen) and the HTC Touch HD2 (3.8" screen) listed but not the HTC HD2 (4.3" screen).

All these phones look quite similar and have similar names. Very confusing for any possible newcomers to the HTC scene!
[HD2 General] niknik76:
Their listing of HTC Touch(?) HD2 is such a joke. So many mistakes in one place is actually quite an accomplishment...
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Considering that Coreplayer wanted to get access to their IP its no surprise they had to pay. It's normal that company wants to get paid for using their IP.
[HD2 General] mr_Ray:
Shows what you know! Android Market coming to Windows Mobile device running last year's TouchFlo version on old hardware renamed with a name matching a different product is something that's been known to be coming for some time.... lol

Thank goodness we can just buy elsewhere and still get the subsidised handset.
[HD2 General] timewyrm:
This probably means more to you guys, but here's a short video showing HTC HD2 vs. HTC Touch HD: OpenGLS Test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htj8r1gWgc
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Finally video showing IRL how much faster HD2 is compared to msm7xxx based device.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
And, I presume, this is some generic benchmark application, not something from Qualcomm or HTC, and we can finally relax about proper 3D driver issue? Can somebody say what this app was?
[HD2 General] Reason4444:
Here is; :cool:

http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Benchmark/Test-OpenGL-77221.shtml
[HD2 General] MrEdwardK:
First page where correct specs and picture are shown on t-mobile website..

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/windows-mobile-phones/

Then clicking on the link shows all the wrong info again!
[HD2 General] kersh:
Well, maybe that will be piracy, but that doesnt mean that someone can rip it and made it works in the HD2.

So, maybe finally HD2 finally can get Coreplayer with acceleration even with piracy.
[HD2 General] beta_boy:
The issue is what most CPU/GPU companies don't really have the proper plans/finances in place to open access to the acceleration API's.

I could drill down and go into dozen's of examples... but I will point out HTC as a 'generic' one since it is the focus of this thread and that they devel most of the hardware the masses use outside of Apple/Symbian/Palm/etc. They need to 'think' about open access when designing the references and making the deals with the chipset companies.

The days of just releasing 'dumb' hardware is well over, and the era of the 'platform' has finally taken hold. What companies like HTC need to do now is make that platform to be truely open and OS independent... and yes it can be done without the need for such crap like Java (which should never be considered as an OS... period).

The HD2 looks to be an amazing device... but will HTC change the open nature of the device to let third party developers take advantage of what we as developers and you the consumer pay for? Doubtful... but I am one of the happy ppl to see that it is WinMo based... while the 6.5 is not perfect from a UI perspective, developers can overcome that within their applications till 7.0 comes along.

Till then... I cannot wait to get a few HD2's in-house hear to show how CorePlayer 2.0 kicks ass on it ;-) (anyone at HTC reading this? ;-)
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
When is coreplayer 2.0 supposed to be out?
[HD2 General] kersh:
Well, in coreplayer dev team time, in few days

in real time, 2048 sounds like a good year if we have luck.
[HD2 General] beta_boy:
No... The reality is when we feel it's worthy enough to be released. But feedback from our OEM licensee's is providing great feedback and making the platform more robust then we had ever planned 2.0 to be.
[HD2 General] addicus:
Good to hear. I love your product and look forward to 2.0. Don't let these guys piss on our parade.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
Good to hear.

Really looking forward to the release.

Still, can you please make it more clear about the possible release date?:D

Also, to make it more clear, will there be a standalone player or just OEM version of 2?
[HD2 General] MasterTP:
CP 2.0 supports NEON instructions inthe SnapDragon now, right?
[HD2 General] Tito662:
THe Acer neoTouch beats the HD2 in CorePLayer (not by much):

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/11/04/htc-hd2-vs-acer-neotouch-benchmark/ :eek:
[HD2 General] chalid:
228% vs. 262% is a rather large difference in my opinion ... lets wait for someone to rip the drivers from acer or toshiba ... ;)
[HD2 General] kersh:
4.24 vs 3.7mbps

63 vs 54 fps

Neotouch gives a 15% more data rate on video

little difference would be 5%, 15% its a lot on my oppinion
[HD2 General] globalgpj:
HTC confirms, the display is glass

I wasn't sure exactly what materials the screen would end up to be, as I have heard so many different opinions from so many sources, so I contacted HTC a few times. Here is there response today.

Thank you for contacting HTC Corporation,

Dear HTC Customer

With regards to your inquiry, the top of the LCD is glass.

Thank you for choosing HTC the PDA maker to the world

Sincerely,

HTC Corporation
[HD2 General] kersh:
That reply seems to be out of the world of goo corporation.
[HD2 General] fedefedefede:
Another (small) review

http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/4433/htc-hd2-T8585-phone-review

my2$
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Who cares about coreplayer anyway? Just re-encode your videos and they'll run a lot better.

Also we don't even know if they used the same version and settings on both.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Well, I, for one, don't care the tyniest bit about performance that requires re-encoding videos, so CorePlayer benchmark is much more relevant for me.
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Why wouldn't you re-encode them to suit the phone better?

Pre-ordered my Leo today! ;)
[HD2 General] bemymonkey:
Because reencoding takes forever? When I'm about to leave for a trip the last thing I want to do is spend hours transcoding movies so that I can watch them on the trip...
[HD2 General] Toss3:
So what device right now can run 720p movies without re-encoding? All of the avi rips out there should run fine on the HD2(at least the one I tested) so that shouldn't be a problem.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
I actually wouldn't be surprised if a Snapdragon device could do that - if the application were fully hardware-accelerated.

EDIT: In fact, Qualcomm actually lists 720p video playback in the Snapdragon specifications.

Source: http://www.qctconnect.com/products/snapdragon.html
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Well if the bitrate was low-enough then sure, but considering that most 720p rips have a bitrate of 5+ Mbps I don't think running HD movies is going to be an option(especially when you take audio into consideration). The most important thing however is that the HD2 won't support mkv containers, which is a shame really. :( Would have preferred mkv support over avi any day.
[HD2 General] Toss3:
To anyone still worried about the graphics-performance of the HD2 should take a look at this video:

HD2 vs Touch HD

The poster said that the HD2 performed 10 times better in all instances compared to the touch HD. ;)
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
I wish .mkv never even appeared of course as I don't give a damn really if a container is "better", and even less about it being open source. .mkv didn't improve my (or anyone else's) life for an iota, yet created problems with incompatibilities, forcing me to buy new costly equipment.

As regards re-encoding, bemymonkey put it right - it's a lengthy process, a major hassle, makes watching video on my phone pretty much unrealistic - I don't have time for this when going for a trip. I also don't download videos to watch them on the phone - I use other equipment for that purpose, and .mp4 isn't even supported there, I think. Having multiple copies of everything would just be insane.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
That's all fine and well, but 3D graphics performance is a rather theoretical thing really - there are no games for WM to benefit from that.
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Well that's because there hasn't really been any phones on the market whose gpu could even run games at a decent framerate(except of course for the Iphone) for that long so now that we are starting to see a lot of phones with dedicated GPUs I bet were gonna start seeing more games being released as well. :) Multitouch is also a godsend for gaming on a windows mobile device!
[HD2 General] Toss3:
This really isn't the thread for arguing about which container is better and why, but mkv:s take up a lot less space than similar quality avi:s which should be reason enough to forget about avi completely.

The HD2 has native avi-playback support also so that should simplify things for ya.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
But it doesn't support divx nor xvid so don't expect it to playback your avi files.

You will need CorePlayer to playback your files.
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
To be honest, when you get 200% playback speed, why the hell do you need to re encode to get decent performance?!?
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
You are right.

The videos which are giving ~130% in benchmark are smoother in my HD with rarely any skipping frame(For xvid files) with coreplayer.

So, with 200% results, iam sure we will get a very smooth playback.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
You certainly will not get 200% playback speed on 720p material. ;)
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
You seriously think games authors are going to target a single model of WinMo phone? I doubt there will be a single high-end WinMo game published at all between now and when WinMo 7 becomes established - quite possibly not even then. WinMo 7 may change things because it will have a fairly hefty minimum hardware spec - the HD2 will be the least powerful phone able to meet the WM7 requirements. So it's conceivable that there will be some games targeting WinMo 7 (assuming Windows Mobile hasn't already ceased to exist entirely by then - it's already in fourth place behind RIM, Symbian and the iPhone OS, and it won't be long before it's in 5th place behind Android). For the moment, any WinMo game has to run on a phone that's 2 or 3 years old with a QVGA display and no GPU.
[HD2 General] Toss3:
QFT.

Well, I guess you are right, but I bet we'll start seeing more decent mobile phone games as Opengl ES 2.0 support starts being standard in most devices next year. :)

Honestly I'm happy with fpsece for now.
[HD2 General] zoro25:
I know the phone is Capacitive and not resistive however can anyone explain the need for the matrix on the screen rather than pure glass?

Maybe its needed?, My HD1 which is resistive doesn't have it and the Iphone which is Capacitive also doesn't?

Are HD using a hybrid system?

you can see the matrix very clearly here

http://www.engadget.com/photos/hd2-hands-on/2420568/

I hope it doesn't spoil the display on that nice screen as in that pic it looks very obvious and it would slightly annoy while watching movies if it stands out that much.
[HD2 General] dfulgo:
I think that it is just the screen protector applied for the packing and to be removed.
[HD2 General] zoro25:
I think your right actually as my HD1 did come with a protector for shipping which was matrix just like that pic displays
[HD2 General] fedefedefede:
Somebody knows if it comes with a free microsd card? Like 2 GB just for a start...I havent seen anything in the unboxing videos or in the reviews.

my2$
[HD2 General] chris10230:
its 'supposed' to have a 2gb card and also no one has a full retail box yet. You will notice that they dont have any manuals either i think
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Entirely depends on the retail store according to HTC. Mine at least won't come with a microsd card nor a screeen protector.
[HD2 General] kapollo:
Hi,

is the power button of the HD2 located in any useful place, like in Kaiser?

I got sort of used to put the phone in sleep(?) with my thumb and when I tried to get used to use power button in Omnia... well it's not that usefull there
[HD2 General] br3nt:
its the end call button. located at the bottom right corner :)
[HD2 General] Toss3:
I just want to say this:

The screen is almost as big as the whole frigging iphone. :D
[HD2 General] 3mL:
Awww, look at that little baby, it's so small..:D
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
I think it's because no-one has the "release" packaging... As far as I can tell they are all "review" devices, and all have the "Not for resale" logo on boot.
[HD2 General] KrewCial:
Really hope you're right. Otherwise the only usefull thing in the package is going to be the charger (apart from the phone itself of course). :P
[HD2 General] wonsanim:
Amazing I really like one of this.
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Two weeks is going to be a looong wait.. :(
[HD2 General] globalgpj:
Sorry Kersh,

Your dead wrong.

I made my inquiries directly through the HTC website.

I didn't get a satisfactory response the first time I asked them, so I replied to their response a second time with slightly different wording.

So HTC's 2nd response confirmed that the display is made of glass.

Cheers
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
Small but packs a punch! ;)

I just put an order in for mine. :D
[HD2 General] les_paulde:
check out this amazing review: (original in Dutch but for you non-Dutch speakers out there, google translate does quite a nice job + for the benchmarks, numbers are all you need to be convinced this really is one of the best phones out there!)

http://translate.google.com/transla...-dan-de-rest.html&sl=nl&tl=en&history_state0=

only one more week hopefully, I already have trouble sleeping from the excitement! :D hehehe
[HD2 General] Toss3:
This is now the second review that shows the snapdragon in the HD2 performing worse than those in its competitors. Maybe htc chose to downclock or turn off some feature of the snapdragon in order to maximize battery-life?
[HD2 General] les_paulde:
could be some power-saving option yeah, but personally i'm not too worried about the performance compared to the TG01; just look at how fast it starts up and how fast it loads websites- simply amazing!
[HD2 General] Toss3:
Yeah the load time is impressive, but I was expecting the HD2 to win in every catergory and the difference in floating point calculations is a pretty big one. Not that I'd ever consider going with a tg01 instead of a hd2, but the hd2 seems held back somehow compared to its competitors.
[HD2 General] tokbey:
yeni inceleme - 43:43 dk

son dakika incelemesi 43:43 dk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxkIJdG2brU
[HD2 General] kapollo:
Errr I meant the button that on Kaiser makes the device's display go blank I don't have the specs under my hand but it's, I'm pretty shure, power button (it has that nice power pictogram on it :) ) on omnia it is located on the top side

Cheers,

Pawel
[HD2 General] turt:
Yes, that's exactly what br3nt told you: the End Call button (dual action button).
[HD2 General] niknik76:
43 minutes walkthrough, holy crap :eek:

:)
[HD2 General] kapollo:
Aye you're right sorry for that :)
[HD2 General] NetRipper:
Picture of the retail box and its content (NL version): http://public.bay.livefilestore.com...1tGRm56XWEBBSBtTelLrTc3_ifX7DOQ/imag0005e.jpg

Includes the pouch and a 2GB sd card. (Original post in dutch).

Should be receiving mine in the morning. :)
[HD2 General] Toss3:
That pouch looks a lot better than the one that came with the touch HD. :)
[HD2 General] xmoo:
It has more of the Blackberry Bold style.
[HD2 General] kindadevil:
Quick Start Guide: http://member.america.htc.com/download/web_materials/QSG/HTC_HD2/091017_Leo_HTC_WWE_QSG.pdf