yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] THE GRIZZ:
clove reduced the cost to 439 pounds. not too bad

http://www.clove.co.uk/viewProduct.aspx?product=8BD3543E-20C2-425E-AE08-49CDE8188D62

------------------

http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=9104

Its seems even before the launch of the HTC HD2 a price war has broken out between the online retailers, with Clove responding to Play.com’s much lower $499.99 price by slashing its price to £504.85 (£439, $719 before tax).

Expansys is still sticking to its £549.99 price with £30 vouchers.

The HTC HD2 was rumoured for a October 19th launch on O2 today, but so far has failed to materialise. Online retailers at present still predict a November 11th release.

Read more at Clove here.
[HD2 General] ToddeSwe:
So we'll be one of the first ones to have an HD2 on XDA then :) he he he...
[HD2 General] owz206:
Nice new 5 minute video just popped up on youtube, in Italian though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjkLPoIKK9s
[HD2 General] warenbe:
well nothing new or spectacular.
[HD2 General] hmota78:
Still, that's the fastest thing I've seen :eek:
[HD2 General] mjordan79:
It's "fast" because the only thing that they show you is TouchFlo.

Tell them to show you some graphics performance with some modern game ...

Probably it is even uncapable of playing many of them.
[HD2 General] kersh:
modern games for windows mobile? That must be a joke.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
so, u open your account for a purpose:D
[HD2 General] mjordan79:
It doesn't seem a joke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Yb7amcPFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00K6qW02Soc&feature=related

Gameloft is going to produce many games on the Windows Mobile platform.

And many more producers will follow, after the marketplace thing has been finalized.
[HD2 General] kersh:
That arent "modern" games, and TG01 moves perfectly Assasins creed moves perfectly, so I think that HD2 will do the same.

Btw, any iphone/DS/PSP game looks a lot of better than that, and that games are "modern" games for me, not that ****ty looking of gameloft.
[HD2 General] mjordan79:
Asking to HTC for a good support a 600€ mobile phone deserves and telling people to open their eyes is a bad purpose to you?

Many are not interested to these things, but there are 18.000 people that have signed a petition. The joke is not having 3D acceleration in 2010.
[HD2 General] mjordan79:
You think wrong. TG01 has hardware acceleration. HD2 doesn't have the same 3D capabilities. Look at the benchmarks.

And yes, for mobile phones they're the latest game development.
[HD2 General] zha50:
I would have assumed both phone used the 'AMD Z430' chip which come SoC with the Snapdragon 8250 cpu.
[HD2 General] mjordan79:
Sure. The difference is Tg01 has GPU drivers implemented while HD2 has software rendering only, which is much slower.

By the way, read this:

http://www.htcclassaction.org/
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
Benchmarks? I have looked at them. And the HD2 is faster than the TG01 in hardware-accelerated OpenGL.

HD2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=8348

TG01: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=4129296

Results:

HTC HD2 Toshiba TG01
alpha texture (128x256 rgba) 140125 kPixels/s 106283 kPixels/s
torus (3k triangles) one light 120564 kPixels/s 85221 kPixels/s
color blending 152825 kPixels/s 72826 kPixels/s
sub texture (128x128 15x15) 112983 kPixels/s 92279 kPixels/s

What benchmarks are you referring to?
[HD2 General] mjordan79:
Can you distinguish between OpenGL ES 1.0, OpenGL ES 1.1 and / or OpenGL ES 2.0 and generic graphic tests? :)

Just look at GLBenchmark. In 2010 that prehistoric tests don't really count, for me.

http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&showhide=true&D1=Toshiba TG01

Try to find an HTC device to compare it with a TG01... More, try to run GLBenchmark on a HTC device ;)
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
Firstly, the HTC HD2 doesn't have an entry in GLBenchmark yet since the phone isn't even out yet (nobody has run GLBenchmark and put the results into the database yet).

Secondly, Windows Mobile 6.5 doesn't support OpenGL 2.0. That is, nobody that I know of has actually written a proper OpenGL 2.0 stack for WM yet, regardless of hardware.

Thirdly, the reason you won't find any other HTC devices in the GLBenchmark 1.1 results is because no previous HTC device has been equipped with hardware that supports OpenGL ES 1.1!

You will find, however, that there are plenty of results for OpenGL ES 1.0.
[HD2 General] kersh:
mmmmm on that page, if you compare the TG01 against the 3GS, the tg01 have a completely ****ty results.

Isnt suppose that snapdragon it is a little faster clock by clock than the 3GS? And 3GS processor works @ 600mhz vs 1ghz of snapdragon.¡, and TG01 have acceleration.
[HD2 General] theomni:
You have to look at what they're running.

Apple OS has less of a demand and the lack of multi-tasking (I don't think this has changed for 3Gs) allows the iPhone to suffice on the 600 MHz processor. But, if it were to run WinMo 6.5 like TG01, then you would see that the TG01 is significantly better.

What you were saying is the same thing as saying "A truck with a 200 horsepower engine is a lot faster than a truck with a 400 horsepower engine" That maybe true, but you need to look at what the two are carrying and equalize the field, and make sure that the only variable between the two systems are the engines.
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
It's not really a CPU thing, if you take a detailed look at the results, you'll see that the TG01 significantly outperforms the 3GS in CPU tests (which is expected, since it's 1ghz vs. 600mhz).

I think it's just that Snapdragon (with its AMD Z430 GPU) has lower performance than the 3GS's PowerVR SGX chip.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
According to this, it does. I don't think that pixels per second actually matter for the actual device resolutions (both accelerators have more than enough), but the difference in triangles/s is some 27%.
[HD2 General] jag:
NO Compass + NO TV Out + Incredible small battery (if confirmed) = TOTAL Disappointment since this could very well have been a good device!

Giving the fact that multitouch is given by HTC SW and not WM I think that all gestures will be present only in selected HTC app and not throughout the whole system, then lowering their actual usefulness.

Still don't know why they left out compass and tv out, such HW would be the next thing to be standard in all next devices if you ask me (just see Omnia 2 and all Android powered devices for compass)... mumble mumble...
[HD2 General] nizzon:
Quoted for truth.

Why arent they putting Android on this?
[HD2 General] digimaz:
I think because the current android software doesn't support wvga screen resolution. Only hvga. But the newer version coming out seems to be able to do that, and thats when we can wait for a giant sized android phone.
[HD2 General] chris10230:
After reading all of this and what jag said about the multi-touch can you let us know if there is multi-touch zooming in opera. If this is not there (imo at least) multi touch is pretty much wasted on it!
[HD2 General] elyl:
Still no confirmation on whether there's a digital compass?

B3ler3fonte, could you possibly run the DCompass program in the HTC Debug folder of the start menu and post the results? Does the program start? Does it say "No compass available"? Does it point North?!
[HD2 General] hrcro:
Yes it would be great to know about dcompas, as it is required for wm7.
[HD2 General] orb3000:
Leo is great!

Shame no hardware keyboard:(

Could been the perfect device in a long time
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
I'd like to know about the call quality - when you're talking to someone, are they both loud and clear? I'm partially deaf, but I find the in-call quality of the Touch Pro2 to be a major benefit - it's the only mobile I've ever used that goes as loud and as clear as a land-line phone.

I'm guessing the Leo probably doesn't have the TP2's dual noise-cancelling microphones and turn-the-phone-face-down-to-activate-speakerphone feature, nor the advanced conference-call facilities...?
[HD2 General] 8525Smart:
HTC devices aren't any more moddable that other WinMo devices; the Omnia i900 and the forums at Modaco (that is currently modding the Omnia II + other Samsung devices) is proof positive of that. The reason why HTC devices gets such a better mod community is because XDA is dedicated solely to HTC devices.

To give HTC credit for that is ludicrous; they make their WinMo phones the same way other people made theirs.

P.S. Sorry to be uptight, but next time, could you please quote me or at least say my name? I have a tendency of skimming posts that doesn't quote or name me, so I could have very easily miss you.

:eek::eek::eek:

This is amazing for many reasons. The first is that I myself originally really, really wanted the Omnia HD, but eventually disregarded it because of Samsung's seemingly bad support for it and because it had Symbian instead of WinMo. Secondly, I had just written a review in which I wrote down that Symbian didn't have the same moddability as WinMo devices.

I'm not unhappy, though. I'm actually extremely happy. First because now Symbian might be improved tremendously in aesthetics and usability. Secondly because now the WinMo community might actually be getting some competition in ROM cooking. Third because it's the Omnia HD and not one of Nokia's ugly/low spec phones.

Thank you so much for the link.

Awwww. Oh well, I personally like to use only 1MP or less on my camera anyway, so it doesn't matter much to me. Secondly, you're right, there really is no practical difference between single and dual LED, but an upgrade is an upgrade nonetheless. I don't imagine that HTC can implement the second LED for free.
[HD2 General] Curious D:
That's right. I was so focused on the PDA portion of the device that I forgot about the phone part. How is sound quality? How is bluetooth sound quality? Are there many dropped calls? Is there a speaker phone? How well does that work? Does it have more than one microphone to help with sound quality? Thanks.
[HD2 General] jag:
AFAIK (from a video hands-on) Multitouch Zooming in Opera is not supported.

I hope I'm wrong btw!
[HD2 General] 8525Smart:
Regarding the price of the HTC Leo, it appears we now have one. It is $800: http://pocketnow.com/hardware-1/htc-prothree-in-december-with-usb-host-for-800

So the Acer F1 retails for about $500 (Clove website), the Xperia X2 is $1100, and the Leo is right in the middle. See what I mean now? Guessing game. :cool:
[HD2 General] mojohio:
Is it possible the Leo could be one of these: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/...indows-mobile-6-5-smartphones-launching-befo/

That would be nice!
[HD2 General] niknik76:
Link not working?
[HD2 General] mojohio:
My bad. Give it a try now:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/...indows-mobile-6-5-smartphones-launching-befo/
[HD2 General] CYDVicious:
Try this?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/23/microsoft-over-30-windows-mobile-6-5-smartphones-launching-befo/
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
My TG01 arrived today and already the experience is way better than my Touch HD. I am looking forward to the Leo!
[HD2 General] madcapmagician:
I spoke to T-Mobile today because I wanted to upgrade to a Touch HD (which they don't do). I was advised that the Touch HD2 (what they are calling the Leo) will be out some time in October. I decided to wait...
[HD2 General] Curious D:
Wow. I don't suppose that would apply to the US (as I noticed that you are in the UK). It would be nice to see this phone as a subsidized phone here in the States.
[HD2 General] Bulldog:
Well HTC just do what they need to do to just stay ahead..all others like Samsung which are good in my opinion but still need their names established on the market. Thefore they are implementing more serious hardware. If Samsung continue like it does in last 1-2 years then I really think that HTC will be under pressure. Said that, such thing can be only good for us consumers in aspect of price and Technology.

I really hope to see the time when HTC sales don’t improve that much as it did like last couple years. Then HTC will be again forced to do more.

Anyhow HTC LEO seams a good device, Size wise we are going back to the beginning of PDA/phones. In my opinion it is right way to go. A Smart Phone or as I called a communicator with less than 3,5" is not usable if you wanted to work with it. In HTC LEO they have keep the dimensions like the “HTC Himalaya” (WHICH WAS A GREAT DEVICE) but increase the screen. Well actually the entire device is a screen....one must only love that device
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
I'm a fan of the HD2 and been quietly following this thread. I know there's been discussions regarding the embedded GPU performance and these are no way final until someone can get their hands on a release ROM to conduct some benchmarks. However, seeing as the TG01 uses the same chip as the HD2 and if everyone seems to agree that the TG01 comes with the drivers for hardware acceleration then I we can hope that one of the devs here can extract that driver for use on the HD2. As both are WinMo phones there should be very little messing around with it.

Sorry if I'm being a bit naive about this!
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
That may well not be legal.
[HD2 General] niknik76:
I don't have much knowledge in this area so I wonder if someone could help me understand WHERE/WHAT the lack of 3D acceleration that is being discussed is affecting?

I guess in games and video -but are other areas of use also affected? Is the general use of the phone affected or certain apps?

If one (like me):

- is not gaming on their phone

- use the internal player to watch video (right now I use this converter for my TD2: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=478050 -and I intend to keep on doing that with the HD2)

Will it still have an affect in some areas?
[HD2 General] Benjiro:
Like that has ever stopped people ;)

To be honest, those games look even worse then the PSX games, that are run with Emulation on oa the TG01 ( aka, can also be done on the HD2 ).

Driver 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR2e1Mep2b0&feature=player_profilepage

Gran Turismo 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9qAB7ADB4&feature=channel

And this is just using the snapdragon, and emulation ( pure using the CPU )! So, those games from Gameloft look to have been made for 4 years old devices or so...
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Guys stop this already!!

How many times can you discuss this!!

The device wasn't even released yet. The final ROM was supposed to be released few days(don't know if it was) and yet you still discuss whether it has GPU drivers or not!!

Wait for someone to get his hands on the device and then you will know for sure if it has GPU(but considering how smooth the graphics are I can't see why it shouldn't have GPU enabled) besides snapdragon is being promoted as better than tegra so I can't imagine it being used without GPU!!

For the last time.

STOP THIS STUPID DISCUSSION!!

Sorry for shouting.
[HD2 General] owz206:
Looks like O2 wont be releasing the Hd2 in October after all. People are being told early November by O2 customer service.

So much for the coming in October date in their monthly magazine.
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
As far as I can tell all this business about the hardware acceleration stems primarily from a bunch of misunderstandings.

Even using the preproduction ROMs, we've already seen proof that the HD2 does in fact ship with 3D drivers that can do hardware-accelerated OpenGL ES 1.1.

The only issue at hand is using the hardware video decoders for watching video. In this instance, I believe the contention is that the TG01 ships with an OEM version of CorePlayer which can take advantage of hardware video decoding, whereas the HD2 does not. And since Qualcomm doesn't release public specifications for its embedded video decoders, the HD2 is unlikely to receive hardware video decoding.

Although I think this is mostly a moot point, the CPU is so fast that any video you're likely to watch on the HD2 is going to work just fine in software anyway.

I want to repeat again; this problem does not affect normal OpenGL ES applications! 3D games and the like will work just fine.
[HD2 General] turt:
And now they're expecting 2 today. But did they receive one yesterday? Doubtful... :o
[HD2 General] skotten:
It might seem like a stupid discussion, but it got a few valid points:

Will the HD2 have the driver support given HTC's history?

How important is this driver support and how does it affect the use of the phone?

Lacking driver support in any other hardware-based business are DOOMED, so why doesn't this affect HTC's products?

Will their software solution be suffice or maybe even equivalent to the driver support?

Does the phone waste it's horsepowers due to the lacking driver?

It's not a stupid discussion and most likely a dealbreaker for a lot of people.

Best regards Skotten.
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
I think the point is these are questions that no one can answer at the moment so whats the point. I get the feeling that the people asking the questions won't be getting a HD2 anyway.
[HD2 General] Benjiro:
Again ... HTC there reputation with other Phone's, does make me wonder. And until people can prove with solid benchmarks, that indeed the drivers are supporting 3d acceleration, i will be one off those people that will question what or not they do support the gpu.

Something that nobody has yet answered, is why the hell are those benchmark results so bad. Why are there no OpenGL benchmarks, that crush all those older phone's with slow gpu's?

Do not forget, that the CPU itself is several times more powerful then the old generation. And it might just as well be the CPU that gives the impression that everything is more speedy, and not that the interface is using the gpu.

Its all good & well, when people yell "STOP THIS STUPID DISCUSSION!!". But, how do you think thank a buyer will feel like, when they buy a device, only to see that part off its functionality is missing.

See the question/answer below, for a important point.

The fact that the CPU is plenty fast is a mute point. The fact is, you buy a device, that support a powerful GPU. Not using that GPU is counter productive.

When you playback movies, and the GPU can offload the work, reducing the time needed on the CPU. You get better battery life.

Let me refer again to the old x50v + betaplayer & 2700g. With the dedicated playback on the gpu, it lowered the cpu usage, resulting in a 10min longer playback ( or was it longer. Been 4 years from those tests ).

Ofcourse, you will say, 10min is not long. But remember, we are talking about a device ( x50v ) with a much less powerful gpu/cpu, and a shorter operating time.

Do you think that anybody will say no to a extra "free", 10 minutes or 20 minutes playback time on the HD2?

How about other programs like emulators. I bet that they will love to put image scaling on the GPU, and not on the CPU... That alone can make up to 20% on the CPU's cycles... Cycles that they rather spend on other points on there program.

And let me make one final point:

People, don't yell, "Its not the final Rom!!! The drivers will be in the final ROM...". That crap gets posted with almost any product in development. People think that a device or program, thats undergoing testing, is suddenly going to get a extra speed boost, or lose all its bugs, in a few days, because the developers disable debugging mode, or add drivers etc...

The fact is, no developer is going to wait, and add drivers in the last minute, because thats asking for problems. Thats why all those test devices have different rom versions. Because they are bug testing those things.

This reminds me off all those people, who are in MMORPG's beta's. Nooo, the bugs will be fixed in the last few days before the release. They will enable all the promised features all off a sudden then. Bla Bla Bla ... Wishful dreaming on most people there minds.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
It may not stop people but it certainly will stop the result from being publicised or distributed via this website (unless XDA Developers wants to find itself on the wrong end of a lawsuit from Qualcomm).
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
Um. I've already refuted this point multiple times in this thread.

We already know in advance that the TG01 is, does in fact have hardware-accelerated OpenGL ES. The benchmarks above show that the HD2 (runnign WM6.5) is comparable if not faster than the TG01 (running WM 6.1).

From this link, you can see just how much faster the TG01 is compared to previous-generation devices. There's simply no way that the HD2 is matching the TG01 in 3D performance through software.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
I think that people should yell even more! Especially after reading posts like that!

You haven't seen any benchmark proving that it has drivers or that it has no drivers(considering that SPBbenchmark is not using openGL acceleration or any other kind of hardware acceleration). Can't you just wait for GLbenchmark results? This is the only program that can prove that the phone has drivers inside and yet instead of waiting patiently you question the presence of those drivers. Just because msm7200 questioned HTC's reputation...

There are already 2 snadragon based devices on the market. Both Toshiba and Acer proved that the drivers are there and that the device uses GPU and yet you think that HTC won't include drivers just because it is HTC and they screw us all. What a logic...

So once again. Wait until someone gets his hands on retail version of the device with final ROM. Ask him to do the benchmarks and see for yourself that the device has all the drivers needed for fully using the hardware acceleration.

Final proof:

Do you now believe that HD2 is using z430 GPU?
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
I agree with wishmaster, though I know it's frustrating to see the same topic up for discussion over and over again it's valid. However, with HTC's track record it's hard for people not to discuss to make some noise so maybe HTC will take notice.

It's not long till the release date so wait and see. :)
[HD2 General] adeeb:
Guys i recieved an email from Clove for my pre order.

Thank you again for your order. We apologise for the delay but we are currently awaiting a shipment of your Touch HD2 which we expect to receive approximately 11th November.

Payment will only be deducted when stock is available and your goods will then be dispatched immediately.

Your custom is appreciated and we look forward to hearing from you again soon.

Regards

Sales Team

Clove Technology

"Approximately" is the word that scares me.
[HD2 General] Biffy:
Yes and Insight have dropped the price too, maybe one of the lowest prices now?

I put my order in yesterday but it is still showing as in progress. I fully expect to get an out-of-stock notification soon. :(
[HD2 General] prank1:
I have a question for anyone who has used Play.com for preorders..

I am about to preorder the HTC HD2 for £499.99 (inc. VAT and Postage) and was wondering, what if they drop the price before the release date? Will I still pay £499.99 or the new lowered price?

Also does anyone know if they deliver promptly aswell lol.
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
Now O2 are saying its going to slip to sometime in November - somebody has been told 26th. Think I'm off to T-Mobile
[HD2 General] Jackuuuuu:
OMG~ finally finish the whole thread... used whole half day!

Ok, I got the Samsung Omnia II tested for few days (Was my mates, I was trying to get TomTom loaded on it). The additional 2xx CPU power makes it big difference. I start TomTom 7.9 along with my Touch HD. Omnia II under 2 sec while my HD over way over beyond 6 sec. Also I discover that, TomTom won't work which i discover it suffers as per the old Omnia. I tried with GPSgate but no good I must be doing something wrong man... but anyhow my mate took it back...

The additional 2xx CPU make the phone so responsive man.

Oh well. It's only 3.7", despite all the negativities, I will still go ahead with HD2. Looking to selling my HD.

Ok, going to bed. 3.16am and work is 9am. lol
[HD2 General] manuelcalavera:
Check out THIS topic that wishmaster89 participated in modaco
[HD2 General] prank1:
Screw it i just preordered the HD2 on Play.com for £499.99 (inc VAT + P/P)

Wooohooo!!! Now its the waiting game. Grr. I hate the waiting game lol.