yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] 8525Smart:
Again, a good point, but regardless of why they're doing what they do, they're still doing it, right? If a man steps on a pretty flower, does it make him any less accountable for crushing it if he was in a hurry? Aside from that, remember my two other examples? Palm is probably in the same situation as Samsung, but Apple certainly isn't. It is easily the most recognizable brand next to RIM/Nokia in the cell phone market and probably the most recognizable in the smartphone market.

Yet they, unlike HTC, are also improving their specs as expected. If you don't think HTC did anything negative, that's fine, but personally, I feel that they did fall back and very badly in the cell phone world compare to others.

Thing is that WinMo lovers tend to depend on forums like XDA for mobile support and HTC essentially has one of the best free websites in the world that keeps users lock to their hardware. If you want a WinMo phone, then you're essentially limited to HTC's offerings. If they continue to implement the exact same specs for another year or two, I wonder just how much of an effect it would have on their userbase if it has any effect at all.

Meh, I guess that's one of the disadvantages of being a WinMo user.
[HD2 General] bogdatov:
I was in the mall today and stopped by local RadioShack. There has been lots of GPS devices with 4.3" screen. And many of them were thin and with small bezel around the screen. That gave me idea of how big is this Leo. It IS big. But still loving it :)
[HD2 General] Fdo35:
I think HTC should wait till 6.5.1 to release the Leo, it would make using a capacitive screen easier.
[HD2 General] fpatrick:
agree! WinMo 6.5 is not finger-friendly enough for capacitive screen...
[HD2 General] turt:
HTC "Leo" is already listed in Holland at 522€ (including VAT), with a release date "4th quarter 2009".

HTC "Touch HD 2" (probably the real name of this phone) is also listed in Holland at 592€ (including VAT), also with the same release date.

Holland shops are usually amongst the first ones to list and receive HTC phones, so I guess it will be released sooooon! :-)
[HD2 General] elyl:
Have you used either the HTC Leo, or the final version of 6.5 (which is not yet completed)? I'm guessing no, so how can you make statements like that?
[HD2 General] respider:
I'm sorry Apple. I'm getting this baby for sure!

I love Windows Mobile, but can't stand resistive touchscreen. This one will be perfect.
[HD2 General] makeveral:
6.5 is completed or almost completed, and leo will come with 6.5 not 6.5.1 because all htc roms are 6.5, none of them is 6.5.1 yet.
[HD2 General] aussie1234:
Stereo Speakers

Hi

I have read some "leaked" reviews of upcoming HTC phones with the new snapdragon cpu.

Amongst the many specs of new HTC phones are stereo speakers? Does the Leo or rumoured 'Thoth' have these?

The tiny speakers in existing phones are only adequate (I think anyway).

Any clarification would be appreciated.

Aussie :)
[HD2 General] B3ler3fonte:
Dear all,

I haven't forgotten any of ur previous questions, or requests regarding some testing (benchmarks or navigation). I am just pilled up with work these days and i can hardly find time even to relax back home. No worries, i will answer to all of em soon. Just a small info. iG08 (latest version) on Leo is crazy fast from any perspective (loading the app, navigation, rerouting, buildings appearance and whatever which uses CPU, Mem or Graphs).

Will have a better review the soonest ;) May God be with us and give us some time to b3ta test further this beasty ;)

Peace.
[HD2 General] makeveral:
cant wait! thanks man :)
[HD2 General] bogdatov:
There is constant worry about GPS lag on HTC phones. It is when you are already 20 meters ahead, but GPS thinks you are still here. Reported on (I believe) HD, TP, TP2, Diamond. Some people think this is all about GPS chip, some people blame particular navigation soft (iGo, TomTom, etc), some blame GPS software drivers, some people do not experience GPS lag at all, and some - have lag only at higher speed.

Since you use iGo8 (which version/build BTW ? ) and I do too :) I'm really looking forward to hear your story with navigation experience with Leo/iGo8. Do you have GPS lag ? If so, how bad is it ? At what speeds you have it ?
[HD2 General] makeveral:
taken from here:http://www.wmexperts.com/htc-hd2-rumored-launch-oct-12
[HD2 General] kkiran:
No Android version? :(
[HD2 General] Curious D:
"We're going to ignore for the moment the more-than-likely possiblity that the HTC Leo (aka the HD2) won't be coming anywhere near the United States"

**Sigh**
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Wouldn't be a lot of point until there's a version of Android that can handle that kind of screen resolution. Right now it can't.
[HD2 General] TunsterX2:
Latest version (1.6) of Android can handle multiple resolutions and apps will now be able to be developed to cope with multiple devices.

Anyway, the equivalent of this for Android is the Sony Ericsson X3 "Rachael". That's the device I'm waiting for.

This device looks nice though. But a little bit too the norm to what PDAs have looked like in the past.
[HD2 General] 40oz2Freedom:
The availability of mobile devices is such a joke in the US! I'm sure there's no chance the Leo shows up on any carriers here by next summer so I'm just hoping the unlocked version will be by available to buy from a Euro retailer in the next few months. On top of that, we still gotta pray that it will have support for 3G bands over here (ATT for me).

I've already started to save up for one but not too optimistic since all the wishing and hoping usually ends in disappointment for us :(. If it doesn't, I guess I should just be happy that my X1 works on ATT 3G in most areas here.

I'll be incredibly jealous but I honestly can't wait to see the Leo's capabilities when it ends up in peoples hands overseas.
[HD2 General] D.O.C:
Sorry, got a little confused. my mistake.
[HD2 General] jamuk2004:
02 UK (who are getting this 19th October - says a customer service rep I spoke to today) have a history of shipping their phones network unlocked, so you folks in the US might be lucky!
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
Lol! I've never owned a true HTC device (well depends if you want to argue about my X1). However, I do agree, cases probably cost them next to nothing to make so why not include one, esp when they're asking us to fork out a shed load hard earned cash on their devices. Hehe!
[HD2 General] DialecticThought:
If you look at any of the retail outlets selling this device, clove, expansys, etc., they all list a pouch case included in the packaging. A link to the accessories, http://www.clove.co.uk/viewProduct....28DCB8D-C56F-4F49-BE65-558DF6A6FCB2&Category= describes a pouch allowing you to insert your phone from either the top or bottom.
[HD2 General] leobox1:
wont 4.3 be too big to put in pocket??
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
Well, this is only slightly bigger than the iPhone and not many people have had much trouble keeping that in their pockets.
[HD2 General] imperiallight:
Had a feel of the HTC Leo in central London today. While its size is not too bad and the screen looks massive, the weight curiously feels more than its specifications state.
[HD2 General] BadMonkey:
I also got hold of one in central London a couple of days ago. It did look massive, even compared to a Touch HD, but I didn't think it was too weighty.

I was comparing it to my current phone though, a rather chubby TyTNII.

It just made me want one even more. I'll probably pre-order from the same store so I can pick it up rather than rely on the post office.
[HD2 General] les_paulde:
care to share where this was? ;)

tnx!
[HD2 General] depl0y:
My order was finally confirmed for the 13th of November, they will be delivering it to my work address and I cant wait to get my hands on one :D
[HD2 General] BadMonkey:
I think it was in Kamla Electronics. I went in so many shops it's hard to remember. :confused:
[HD2 General] leobox1:
can you fit it into your pocket?
[HD2 General] warnold007:
He might not have tried to put it in his pocket... :D Otherwise the shop owner may think he wants to take it home!!! :p
[HD2 General] audscott:
How could not not unless you're 10 years old with proportionate clothing/pocket sizes. The measurements are that much different than the HD: 120mm high vs 115 for the HD and 67mm in width vs 62.8 for the HD.

It's not a BOOM box folks!!

(Does anyone even know what a boom box is anymore? :D )
[HD2 General] skotten:
I only know "this is my boom-stick!", so logic would dictate that a boombox must be some sort of an explosive, weaponized device - like a bomb?

Best reagards Skotten.
[HD2 General] BadMonkey:
I didn't try and get it in my pocket, but it has to be less bulky than the TyTNII I currently carry round all day.

One thing I noticed was that the screen seemed to be slightly (very slightly <1mm) proud of the case, but thinking back I think it was probably the sticker on the front used to simulate the OS. It was a display model, so wasn't powered up.

I'll take another look tomorrow when I'm back in town.
[HD2 General] yessirrom:
Why does everyone keep quoting a price of $900 for the U.S.? I have one on order from Clove and the conversion app lists it as $722. Am I missing something?
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Hello there from Slovenija!!!

Well i wonder if HD2 will have graphic accelerator "onboard", like many models from SAMSUNG???

Anyone know something about it? It is my main concern...

I have TOUCH HD and i am wery werry dissapointed of its graphic performance...

Thanks for the answer folks!!!
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
The MSM7200 in the HD has hardware accelerated graphics, Snapdragon in the HD2 has a much more powerful graphics co processor so it should be good.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Yes, your right, but if i am not mistaken, TOUCH HD HAS NO DRIVERS TO USE HARDWARE ACCELERATED GRAPHIC!!! And thats the MAIN PROBLEM with touch hd!!! HTC simply didnt wrote those drivers!!! And for 709€ i think thats not fair!
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
That's not true... There are drivers. Note how Manila works? Manila is a 3D intensive UI.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Ok, whatabout Videoplayer??? I seriosly dont think, that HD uses hardware accelerator for video playback... Or am i wrong... its also possible...

Thanks anyway...

A
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
It does... :p

HTC Album uses it, as does WMP.
[HD2 General] bym007:
This phone needs to come out rather quickly now, since we are all losing our interest.

O2, T-Mob please note this ...

Large gaps being noticed between posts now ... lol ...
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
I guess most people have already got their fix... And since it's official we can get information more easily... :)
[HD2 General] kinnyfaifai:
I can't see why they can't just sell the devices. If O2 had originally planned to release it this month then stock must be allocated and ready. Same for other retailers, it's in HTC's best interests to sell as much as possible as soon as possible.
[HD2 General] vinokirk:
Maybe thats because people have moved to the dedicated Leo forum!
[HD2 General] l3v5y:
On that note, I'll move this thread to Leo!
[HD2 General] digimaz:
I was just rewatching the official advertisement and thought: wouldn't it be nice if the home screen or weather screen animations came with sounds? Like to actually hear the thunder booming, rain splashing or wind blow. Though i'm not sure how would a shining sun sound like. If only developers can somehow include some sound effects, it would further increase the wow factor.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
But, it may further increase the load which is already more with "HTC Sense"
[HD2 General] bym007:
The first time, I saw the advertisement, even I thought that the sound effects would look lovely... perhaps in a "demo" mode, or the sounds could be kept on or off using a switch ...
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
Manila may or may not use hardware 3D acceleration - I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. (Most of the 3D animations look pre-rendered to me). But even if it does, that doesn't mean that 3D acceleration is available to 3rd party software. The game Xtrakt uses hardward 3D acceleration, I think, but the "driver" is effectively hardwired into the game - there's nothing that allows an application not written by HTC to use the 3D chip.

The same applies to video playback - HTC's own software can use the GPU but nothing else can.

The situation with the HD2 remains to be seen. There's sketchy evidence that it does enable 3D acceleration. I would expect it not to enable GPU-acceleration of video playback (except for WMP and HTCAlbum) but the Snapdragon CPU is fast enough that it may not matter unless you're trying to play back a hi-def clip and downscale it in real time.
[HD2 General] qtek_metanol:
yes i did and I just can tell you, the material looks like cheaper plastic..! the diamond an the touch pro2 are the only nice phones from HTC, the rest is crap..!
[HD2 General] bym007:
I hope thats not true off HD2...

Only this morning, I was thinking that increasingly mobiles these days look very cheap-ish and plasticy...
[HD2 General] digimaz:
Demo mode=show off mode. Sometimes i just keep pressing the home button to watch the lightning flash across the screen when im bored. I'm sure the leo's processor would be easily able to handle some extra sound effects.
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
Except it's already a known fact that the HD2 supports full hardware-accelerated OpenGL ES 1.1. The benchmarks have been around for at least a month.
[HD2 General] precsmo:
It sounds like it is huge just like when the Touch HD was launched. I thought who would buy the Touch HD and use as normal daily phone. But when I first tried the phone, I was totally shut up. It will be same as to HD2, it is no doubt wider and longer, but not by much, but the display size increase is a lot for a phone from 3.8" to 4.3". And bare in mind it is a very slim phone, I'm not sure why you are worrying about the size and prefer Samsung as smaller phone, in many factors, those phones are not smaller, and they have less killer features like HD2 does, I'm awaiting the HD2 stock to be available, nothing will break my wish of getting the HD2 now!
[HD2 General] wonsanim:
Me To I hope have soon the U.S. 3G version.
[HD2 General] bym007:
Love your spirit...
[HD2 General] Rowbo:
http://www.phonedog.com/cell-phone-research/blog/cheerio-htc-hd2-hits-t-mobile-uk-on-november-6.aspx

Assuming that's right...

I've been on o2 for years but I may switch to T-Mobile as from reading around their tariffs may be cheaper, I'm just wondering if T-Mobile aggressively brand their phones? By that I mean logos on the outside etc? I don't like that sort of thing. :rolleyes:
[HD2 General] vinokirk:
Cheers dude!
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
Both Diamonds have cheap, reflective plastic back covers - I don't think you can get much worse than that. It's a matter of opinion, really.

It's hard to say what they'll do, as it looks like the HD2 will be the first device from HTC that they haven't completely rebranded and renamed.
[HD2 General] timewyrm:
When I spoke to T-mobile yesterday afternoon, the guy was pretty certain that there would be a T-mobile logo on the phone.
[HD2 General] bym007:
My Diamond (O2 XDA Ignito) came with a matt rubberised back cover ... and it looks quite classy without the gloss ...
[HD2 General] Dark Fire:
As long as they don't give TouchFLO 3D a crazy colour scheme again, I don't mind what they do to it.

Exactly. My glossy back cover was nice for a while, but now it just picks up fingerprints and dirt. :(
[HD2 General] angler:
It is hard for such feedback be widely accepted in this forum, especially this post. What Microsoft push HTC to get extremely profit from putting numbers of "new" device into the market and not offering direct upgrade of OS. If people here looked back to X1 may discover there are a lot of users have a crack case until a later lot came out into the market.
[HD2 General] qtek_metanol:
Hi Dark Fire, I'm not only talking about the back cover but also about the whole phone, the back we don't even see it..!!
[HD2 General] audscott:
You lost me: When's the last time you saw "expensive" looking plastic?
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Thats exactly my opinion! But where can i find full tech specs for this phone??? I have tried already on homepage, but found nothing usefull..

Thanks!
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Nowhere, I'm afraid. Homepage information is certainly incomplete, and never will be.
[HD2 General] MasterTP:
Another video : http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009...-test-htc-hd2-vs-acer-neotouch-vs-iphone-3gs/

but it's useless though. Opera Turbo was enabled on the HTC HD2 it seems.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
For so big company as HTC sure is, thats sad, very sad...
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Show me just one company that releases full specs of their phone consisting of GPU, CPU, kind of RAM or flash memory.

If you will do it then you can talk about situation like this being sad. Even nokia doesn't release complete specs for their phones and they're no.1 phone manufacturer in the world.
[HD2 General] niknik76:
If you can't wait ;)

http://www.pdashop.nl/images/product/productvouwer.php?id=85246&productid=78626

edit: should say it's a paper model of HD2
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
How is it useless? It's not a full comparison, but it shows some impressive capabilities. If Turbo gives such a speed boost on a Wi-Fi connection, difference on Edge or 3G would be even greater.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Well, for example: APPLE, HP, DELL for products of this companies you can find almost EVERYTHING...

Thats tree of them...

No hard felings.. and sorry for my english..
[HD2 General] Toss3:
I use turbo all the time so it's certainly not useless just because the iphone doesn't have it.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
And what "Full specifications" does Apple disclose about their phone?
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Well ok but I meant mobile devices not notebooks/macbooks. I meant full specs for mobile devices like apple iphone, nokia n95 etc.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Definetly more than HTC, much more! And please dont get me wrong: I LIKE MY TOUCH HD MUCH MORE THAN APPLE!!! It is just about disclosing the tech specs... But also true, that TOUCH HD isnt yet on the market...
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Maybe but even they don't officially release complete specifications. You won't find informations about GPU on their official website and what kind of SoC is used.
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
You're kidding right?

We don't even officially know what CPU it uses, the manufacturer of the SoC, the GPU it uses, the architecture, etc. The iPhone is a completely closed, black-box platform.

Even prominent reviewers like AnandTech have been bemoaning the complete and utter lack of technical specifications on the iPhone. They had to make guesses at the tech specs. By comparison, HTC is being completely open with its specs.
[HD2 General] 6ak:
WOW WOW guys!!! Slow down a little bit!!! I didnt mean THAT DEEP SPECS!!! :) :)

I just wanted too know if the TOUCH HD2 will have hardware or software acceleration!!!

I AM DEEPLY SORRY IF I STARTED A LITTLE REVOLUTON!!!

SORRY, SORRY, SORRY!!!

But its kind amuzing thoe...

Guys, no hard feeling PLEASE!!!

:) :) :)
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Well, Apple doesn't disclose any information about what's hardware accelerated and what's not, although I agree that their information about video formats support is very useful, unlike HTC's:

Something like that would be interesting to know about HD2, instead of:

Especially taking into account that the .avi claim is a bit suspicious.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
Don't worry nobody has bad feelings towards you :p

We're just amazed how you could say that apple releases more complete specs than for example HTC with HD2.

For all we know GPU is enabled and H/W video acceleration is enabled but even without it Coreplayer 2.0(which is 'soon' to arrive - by soon I mean before WM7 :p) will support NEON acceleration so it will allow 720p mpeg4 playback even without DSP!! So don't worry one way or another HD2 will be able to playback videos with greater than WVGA resolution :)
[HD2 General] NetRipper:
Just because it's actually funny :-) The direct link doesn't work, so here's the indirect link: http://www.pdashop.nl/productvouwer/78626/category-4214-smartphones/htc-hd2-nl.html

Click the word Bouwplaat.

And p.s., PDAshop confirmed to another customer that pre-orders of the NL version should arrive on the 6th of November (as was already specified on their site). The UK version has the 13th as expected delivery date. I'm glad as I ordered the NL one :-)
[HD2 General] 6ak:
Thank you vangrieg, for expres my thouths!!!

And once more: SORRY...
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Huh? What the heck is this NEON? Maybe you also know about AC3 support in CPv2?
[HD2 General] audscott:
I Suggest a google of: ARM NEON Technology
[HD2 General] warnold007:
I'll post this here, since this thread is always active and quite general.

How do you think will the multi-touch be supported in apps like morphgear and other emulators / software with soft buttons?

I'm assuming it won't work out of the box but mods/updates should have our old programs taking advantage of the multi-touch right?

I mean winmo doesn't natively support multitouch so what do you guys think?

It would be sad (and utterly annoying) if we can only use it to pinch/zoom...
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
I seem to recall there was an announcement from the Coreplayer guys a little while back which basically said that the commercial (i.e. non-OEM) version of Coreplayer will never be hardware-accelerated on Snapdragon.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
I hope it wont be that hard for the devs here to extract the oem player or the associated files anyway.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Since the announcement about no support for Qualcomm there was also news about support for Cortex NEON, although I haven't been able to find compelling evidence about its presence in the Snapdragon.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
That would be illegal, which means such a thing couldn't be promoted or even discussed here on the XDA website without exposing the site to a potentially-fatal lawsuit from Qualcomm. Assuming you don't want to get either yourself or this website into legal trouble, I suggest you stop advocating/inciting criminal behaviour on a public forum.
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
You mean there is no full version oem softwares included in the available cooked ROMs at present?

BTW, iam not talking about or advocating about cracks or cracked softwares.
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
That's exactly what you are talking about, though you may not know it. :)

The Coreplayer developers were commissioned (presumably by Toshiba) to develop a special version of Coreplayer for the Toshiba TG01 that ships with the phone. To produce that version they were permitted access to Qualcomm's intellectual property; and consequently the special TG01 version of Coreplayer is hardware-accelerated. However they are banned from using the same approach in the commercial version of Coreplayer that is on sale to the general public. Why? BecauseToshiba has paid Qualcomm for the rights to produce software that is GPU-accelerated on Qualcomm hardware, but the Coreplayer developers haven't, because they can't afford to. So, only the special TG01 version of Coreplayer has hardware acceleration; and the only legal way to acquire that TG01 version is to actually buy a TG01. Any other method constitutes software piracy.

It is conceivable that other phones may end up with a similar custom version of Coreplayer as well, but the HD2 definitely won't.
[HD2 General] MasterTP:
Looks like mutli-touch is available in all apps!

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/11/02/system-wide-multi-touch-support-on-the-htc-hd2/