yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
That, my friend, I definitely agree with. Can someone push this forward, because however much you might try to persuad me, I ain't going to do a "Marvin" any time soon (become an Android man that is).
[HD2 General] vido.ardes:
While I don't agree with the kiddy-style *****ing (on both sides), I have to side with trentend here. If the same hardware was coming out, but with android, I would go for the android version. More than anything, I think it'd be a nice change, havign spent years with WinMo and as I have already experianced WinMo6.5 and TFSense, it would be a good time to try something new.

As this is about a device that is to be released, and not a forum about the Leo, discussing an Android version is perfectly valid.

Now quite down and play nice :D
[HD2 General] bhogal:
Trendtend, what we do know for a fact is that from all the previews of the hd2 so far, that it is fast, smooth in dispalying video, zooming in and out, as well as handling detailed web pages with flash.

Until the recent firmware update to the hero, just how laggy was that handset.

I have used windows mobile 6.5 on my x1 for sometime for daily business activities, e.g. exchange email, windows live mail, 2-3 hrs of phonecalls everyday, watching videos, listening to songs.

all this without any problems or even a soft reset.

When you talk about windows mobile dropping calls or not handling call making efficiently or poorly, you know you are talking absolute rubbish.

I have used windows mobile since the days of wm 2002 and since my first phone enabled ipaq i have had very few dropped calls.

Sir, android is still in its infancy and just as linux has never and never will catch up with consumer penetration as windows, neither will android.

You really think that enterprise will adopt android, you again are seriously mistaken.

Maybe in five years time android might start to make a dent.

So before you start dissing windows mobile just take a breath and stop and calm yourself down, before being so negative.
[HD2 General] trentend:
That's all fair and reasonable. I promise to stay out of the Leo forum, at least in terms of expressing a preference for something that isn't related to that forum.
[HD2 General] jasonpeinko:
Just because you had a good experience does not mean everyone else has. I have used both windows mobile and android. Both come with their problems and strengths. I personally had a bad experience with winmo, and i moved to android, but after using android for a while, i want to go back and try winmo again particularly with the leo.
[HD2 General] LeeMC79:
May I ask what is drawing you back to WM after a spell with Android? Is it just the hardware, or useability / functionality that you prefer in WM? I only ask as I am on only my first WM device (Omnia i900) and never had an Android phone. I like the look (who wouldn't?) of the Leo, but dont want to feel i'm missing out on potentially better OS elsewhere...
[HD2 General] bhogal:
you seem to be agreeing with me in a sense, that if you have had a bad experience with wm doesnt mean that everyone has had a bad experience.
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
Can we start talking about the Leo again now - anyone seen a proper full english review yet (written). I've seen the half finished italian and russain ones but nothing fully fleshed with all details covered.
[HD2 General] PoisonWolf:
Hamidza,

And your point is? That I'll care?

My opinion remains the same. Sure, you can say 6 mm, and the next generation will be what, a 4.7" inch screen, that's only 4.5 mm bigger than the Leo with a 1 mm bezel? My point is: WHEN WILL IT BE BIG ENOUGH?

I've already thought that phones like the TouchHD and iPhone were perfect in size (borderline pushing it). This phone almost exclusively requires you to wear baggy pants, etc. It almost feels like we're going back into the 90's where everyone is going to end up carrying a club-cellphone again. I guess it isn't only fashion that's cyclical.

A lot of people like to think that the phone is only a tiny bit bigger than the iPhone, and that it'll be ok, but you, like most perhaps, it's just

never

big enough, is it?

Cheers.

P.S. See what I did there.
[HD2 General] d.cortez:
@B3ler3fonte, i also appreciate you taking time to respond to questions, comments and feedback from this thread. i'm currently using the Telstra Touch HD (with the at&t 850 3G US band) and, for me, the Leo is a "natural next step/device". i can easily trade off an extra .23 inches in width/height for that impressive screen. i just hope it has US 3G bands... cheers!
[HD2 General] x5-rwk:
I second that as an American Telstra Touch HD owner. I was going to look at the TP2 but not anymore. I will use my HD and wait for the LEO. That is whenever I get it back from the HTC repair center in Houston. Damn camera...
[HD2 General] grandpanda:
Hi B3ler3fonte

Is it possible to take notes on LEO's screen with a stylus? Since you mentioned that it's extremely sensitive. Thanks for all the info.
[HD2 General] Wishmaster89:
He said it is capacitive so it is impossible to take notes using standard stylus. You would have to use special stylus designed for capacitive touchscreens.
[HD2 General] tibursio:
Yea, I agree.

Maybe they should also take a look at the following link:

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/25508-TG01-vs-HTC-Leo-vs-touch-hd

Or do it like me and draw the sizes onto a paper, cut it out and hold it in your hand or put it in front of your HD/whatever phone you got.

It looks big in the pictures but in the end its not THAT big.

Of course you should go to a shop and see how it feels in your hand before buying :P. But don't complain now as you have (almost) no idea how it feels in your hands or if your eyes are tricking you.
[HD2 General] grayme:
http://www.redmondpie.com/head-to-head-htc-leo-hd2-vs.-iphone-3gs-i891 suggests that there is a digital compass.

Check out the Apple Fanboi's comment. :rolleyes:
[HD2 General] grayme:
Chill. We all have different desires, for me the thickness is the key point and I was happy to lose the 'brick' that was the SEX1 for the larger screen of the HD.

I have to admit, whilst the size is manageable and the screen great, I can't see myself wanting to go any bigger than this Leo. :)
[HD2 General] thinman24:
And finally HTC took into consideration that this is a business phone... and left at least one camera out! :)

I asked them so many times why they don't care about those users who can't have camera phones at work and at the end they polity told me to p.ss off... :D

But now! As it seems from the photos, the little window above the camera is only a stick on piece just like on my Samsung i320.

It's easily removed and replaced by some similarly formed opaque piece.

I suppose the camera is a plug in type like on any other phone and as soon as the disassembling guide arrives, can be quickly removed.

Perfect!

Thanks B3ler3fonte for all the information!

Cheers,

Thinman
[HD2 General] mojohio:
My ATT contract had expried 4 months ago, and I've been holding out for the Touch Pro 2 (Tilt 2) to be released for ATT. Supposedly, this will be next month. After seeing the specs on the Leo, I feel like I should wait a little longer until that is available. It looks like this would be very comparable to a windows mobile iphone solution. In fact, some are complaining about the size, but looking at this:

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/25633-HTC-Leo-vs-Apple-iPhone-vs-Pack-Of-Playing-Cards

it is very similar in size to the iphone. I haven't heard too many complaints about the size of the iphone. With that taking care of the size issue, I can't see why this phone wouldn't be one of the most superior phones on the market when it hits. Lets get this thing out to ATT, or at least unlocked HTC versions, ASAP!
[HD2 General] Curious D:
I'm ready for a new phone on AT&T as well. However, I suspect that US release would not be in time for the end of the year. A number of websites dedicated to the rumor mill in smartphones usually pick up the FCC approval for such devices. The TP2 took many months from rumor to sales. I'm guessing that AT&T wouldn't sell this device soon so as not to cannibalize TP2 or Diamond 2 sales. Shame though. This looks to be a cool phone. I have smaller hands and wonder how this phone would feel in my hands.
[HD2 General] milka:
CorePlayer/TCPMP benchmark?

First off, to B3ler3fonte, you are one LUCKY dude! Very envious of you. Your latest photos are really starting to convince me that HTC have lifted their game build quality wise (I was unlucky enough to import a Touch HD that had the paint peeling issue :mad:).

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm very happy with the Touch HD except for 1 thing. Video playback of DIVX/XVIDs through CorePlayer or TCPMP just wasn't fast enough (thanks Qualcomm). Can you either CorePlayer or TCPMP and run a quick benchmark on a 350MB tv show episode or a 700MB movie, as an example? Would be truly very appreciative of you if you could find the time to do so.

Cheers, and enjoy your beta testing!

milka
[HD2 General] EOTEROG:
And, When will it be small enough? 6 mm less? 8? 9? 10? There is a standard for the perfect size of a phone?

I think up to 10" will be fine... It'll substitute my phone (HD) and my netbook in one step. So 1/2 inches by year, I think on 2021 I'll finally make my dreams life...

HTC Ahena (X7510) is quite bigger, and it got its part of the market.

Take it easy, and if you don't like big phones, leave this thread and leave borderlines like us to be happy...
[HD2 General] PoisonWolf:
E,

Good for you. Like everyone else, I've got the right to voice an opinion. If you don't like it, ignore it. No one asked you to respond.

Oh, please, by no means am I advocating that you guys boycott this. There is a different between disliking a product and forcing it down peoples throat to get them to not buy it.

So please, go await your 10-inch phone in the near future. Hopefully it'll also be able to act as a weapon should someone ever mug you! (Smack them in the head!)

Cheers.
[HD2 General] B3ler3fonte:
Guys i'm here to pass on whatever info i can provide you with, but i hope i will have the valaible time to do that, coz apart from that, i really have to beta test the device and give feedback the soonest.

Wish i was able to give the original specs out loud but even the sheet confirms that they r confidential so i'll try to be as specific as i can. Furthermore, i am trying to have an approval of having the first Official Hands on Leo, exclusively here in xda, but early in the morning b4 posting the images, i realised that some ppl out there can not simply be convincied :mad: unless they actually see something.So, as you all may guesss that was a really disaappoiintment, coz i wud never try to cell coals for gold. Bet you can understand what i am saying. Lets start by trying to answer your questions as they, were posted previously.

Screen so far i am using it,i must say it must be some sort of covered with a teflon or material making it hard to get it dirty. It does get, but i blv it could be more. USB host indeed its amazing i am just trying to convience myself that the device i own will b the final market launch, of coz with a slight change on the back metal battery cover, where the French letter indicates its for beta testers and not a not-for-sale device. Till i make it sure about USB i don't want to say more and let u down, so i want to be 100% sure ;) As for the benchmarking i'll def go for it and post u the results, but b4 having a full device backup for contacts and stuff i need, and stuff i put b4 i actually start my testing cases. I hope u'll c the differences ur looking for, regarding loads of stuff in comparison with HD I.

Pleasure is all mine, thing is i wudn't have start this whole thing if that thread did not actually exist, so thanks go to u my friend.

As i said, pleasure is mine. Guys all phones which come for testing, stay on my hands, as they r non-returnable devices whatsover, like the latest LG 3G watch, HTC Tattoo, and so many other branded ones. I just not only test Leo.

I think US is under the umbrella of 3G by using the CDMA2000 instead of proper WCDMA on the tower mounted base stations, so yes it does support 3G bands ;) The question remains now, on how HTC will promote the device in US and if it has made an agreement with the Opeartors there, coz u sud always have in mind that they r looooooads and i mean loooads of agreements and conflicts b4 a device is released to a specific market. Issues like customization , monthly or eternal exclusivities and so on.

Hail to Wishmaster.He replied so i have no further comments on that ;)

Actually i am lame ( :P) lucky one, but i started getting used to it, as i managed to do my hobby as a profession.Anyway, thats another story of the whole thing. You sud b happy with HD I, but moving onto to Leo will b a gr8 step ahead, blv me. Even till now, i simply can't get used to it and every time i switch it, i feel amazed of HTC's creation. I'll try as i said to bogdatov previously, to test what ur posting and give u feedback in order for u to know ;)
[HD2 General] bogdatov:
B3ler3fonte, thanks again for agreeing to benchmark this device ! As far as results format, you can use file like this http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=4589238&postcount=565

so we would compare oranges to oranges (don't want to mention Apple here :) )

And BTW ... happy actual beta-testing this thing !

P.S. What phone do you use daily for yourself? What is your favorite ?
[HD2 General] lude219:
Thank you B3ler3fonte for taking your time in replying to all these questions. It's very informative and im sure it takes a chunk out of your beta testing time to make time for us...and im sure we're all very grateful for that :)

But i can't end here without a question of my own heheh:D

You've said that the battery is quite good and is capable of lasting 1.5 days based on your usage. So my question is, what about memory usage? A video i saw a while ago posted on a website demonstrating the Leo, i see that the memory gets up as high as 84% with just the HTC album open. Do you experience the same thing with your Leo? What's the start-up memory like and under your 1.5days of battery testing, how high did the memory go up to? If it's a problem, i hope it's due to the beta SW and the final product will have much better memory management.:)
[HD2 General] theredundant:
silly question; this phone meet requirements of WM7? read somewhere that WM7 requires Nvidia Tegra. Understand that snapdragon provides that cpu-wise, but gpu-wise? B3ler3fonte maybe you could tell us more about the graphics? cheers mate! :D
[HD2 General] wonsanim:
Wow Great Device, wonderfull information.Thanks B3ler3fonte
[HD2 General] galaxys:
Great thread and B3ler3fonte's excellent hands on play-by-play info! Super looking device, the best size, and a very powerful cpu!! This is the HTC PPC I've been waiting for....
[HD2 General] vanzelvoul:
Are we having an Android vs WM thread here or are we talking about the Leo. God Guys whats wrong with you. Make a vs Thread and argue as long as you want, but when I am reading these thread the actual info I would like to take is ABOUT LEO as it is anounced with no IFs and Buts!
[HD2 General] jasonpeinko:
I think what most is drawing me back is the level of customization, android can be customized to some level but it only goes so far. There seems to be a lot more user mods and customizations for windows mobile. There also currently seems to be more and better quality windows mobile applications. Part of is too that i feel bored with android, the leo seems so attractive and actually seems to make windows mobile really nice and attractive.
[HD2 General] vido.ardes:
I think the english reviews are all under and NDA until the phone is released and carriers are officially announced. I think the date being banded about is the 16th for o2's announcement
[HD2 General] skr_xd:
. +1000:d
[HD2 General] Humpe:
Maybe a stupid question, but what is it really that the HTC car kit gived (Beside a new, not so pretty battery cover) compared to what a future active brodit car kit will? What is that menu they show of in the press release that is claimed to be active when docked to the car kit? Just a generic menu or something closely integrated with a particular navigation solution (Which one then?).

A bit confused here...
[HD2 General] timmymarsh:
Gents,

I tend to agree with getting back on topic. I respect your point of views and it is obviously a hot topic, but lets not get carried away please.

Thanks Guys.
[HD2 General] mavrik64:
I had high hopes for this being my next phone. I see now I'm not alone in thinking this might not be the best thing since sliced bread. Had the Leo been released with WM6.5.1 which I understand is designed to work with capacitive screens, I might have been reassured. It won't be. It's been cleverly cobbled together with HTCs own drivers and, whilst I'm sure the user experiance will be good, I'm not convinced. I'm over due a new gadget but I'm going to have to wait. Not for WM7, but wait to find a smartphone that can deliver at a business and entertainment level. I might even have to try the Jesus phone experiance for a while (if I can get a discount ;) ). At least it would integrate properly with my in car hifi (unlike my WM devices).

I will keep following the Leo progress and I wish it all the best.....
[HD2 General] Shasarak:
I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but that's exactly what MS is doing with WM7. WM8 will be the first version to be re-written from the ground up.

Exactly what laurels do you imagine MS won with Vista?
[HD2 General] niknik76:
Back to the Leo :p

Review on italian website (translated with google):

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=FIw

Review on Mobile-review.com now in English native:

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-hd2-firstlook-en.shtml
[HD2 General] Sc4Freak:
When I first saw the HD2, I was very excited and wanted to get one ASAP. But now that I've had time to think about it, I'm beginning to lose my enthusiasm.

It's not because of any hardware issue; the hardware's all great. It's not because of a usability issue, I'm sure the interface is excellent and it'll work brilliantly as a phone, personal organiser, and digital media player.

No, my issue is application development. I'm a developer, and I want to develop applications for Windows Mobile. The HD2 runs WM6.5, which does not come with built-in support for features such as accelerometer, multi-touch, digital compass, and a whole host of other features included in this phone. Built-in, OS-standard APIs for this are coming in WM7 - which is still at minimum 6 months away (Spring 2010).

That means that there's no standard way to access these hardware features. And HTC hasn't released the SDKs to access these unique and powerful hardware features. If I were to develop applications for Windows Mobile, I'd be developing solely for WM7 due to the minimum Chassis spec which guarantees basic hardware features.

So my number one problem I have with this phone is that it runs WM6.5. It's that simple. If I had a guarantee that the HD2 was upgradeable to WM7, all would be fine. But there is no such guarantee. And since there's no public SDK or drivers for the HD2 to access the hardware features, there's also no guarantee that you fellows here at XDA will be able to get WM7 to work at all on this phone.

It's a shame, really.
[HD2 General] ektivno:
Hello everyone. Sorry for my weak english. I just have two questions about this device. I read this thread, but different people told different about the ability to upgrade this phone to WM7 in future. So will it be possible to upgrade to WM7?

Next question is about video codec support. I have Omnia HD phone and it has divx support. HTC Leo comes with 1ghz processor and it will be very nice for watching video on it - .mkv or .avi in high resolution. As far as i know Coreplayer is a nice programm but i saw on some videos: you can go to Photo tab in Manila and play videos there, so what video files can it play? I hope not only videos recorded by camera.

Well, thanks a lot for attention.
[HD2 General] trentend:
This is exactly my concern, as aluded to in my previous posts. The hardware level is ahead of the operating system. There will be a small number of devices with this level of hardare, with no official OS support. It will probably be fine as a user level experience, but it could well be a nightmare to develop for. Take this advantage away from a WM device and I think it undermines it's primary advantage over other systems.
[HD2 General] vangrieg:
Nobody will answer this with certainty. WM7 doesn't even exist yet.

Unfortunately, you are about right. You can't play .avi or .mkv files there. It's limited to .mp4, I think, maybe it also supports some other weird and rare formats, but nothing really useful. Which is a real shame, because this player is hardware accelerated (unlike CorePlayer) and I happen to like its simplistic UI much more than any other player's.

And the solution is very simple as well - just buy a WM7 device and develop for it if you can. :)
[HD2 General] niknik76:
I see you guys that are developers have a bit of a problem, that is a pitty I think (maybe even ****ty)

As a more normal user kind of guy I just gotta love this=

(taken from the review on solopalmari.com)

"For one thing: the opening of the folder "Windows" system, notoriously slow due to the large number of files and icons, is almost instantaneous. But the high speed of execution does not occur only in that circumstance certainly means any transaction, compared to other smartphones of the same software platform, much higher: the menu of the TouchFLO 3D always run smoothly and without vacillation, the photos (even 5 MP) are browsing across fluency, can zoom and pan never manifest uncertainties."
[HD2 General] addicus:
Not to sound like a jerk, but the phone looks like it runs Windows Mobile 6.5 perfectly so if you want an android phone shut up and wait. There will be a beautiful handset for that OS in the next year that may come close to rivaling this awesome phone. I don't have a damn problem with WinMo. It's old, and it works and once you tweak it to your liking it gives you what you need. Of course it could have some improvements visually and with pairing down the size, but there is a reason it's on more handsets than any other OS (except may be Symbian?).
[HD2 General] Ruudfood:
I stand corrected on WM7 then!

As for Vista, I'm not saying that MS won anything, only that they knew they didn't really deliver to everyone's expectations. and realised they had to fix it. Now they've perhaps exceeded expectations with W7.
[HD2 General] Ruudfood:
So tell me, what did you expect HTC to do? Not release the device because no OS was up to scratch?

I'm sure that only a relatively small percentage of users will want to take advantage of 3rd party apps that could potentially use features like multitouch and a digital compass in the short term (ie; the lifespan of this device). In the longer term you'll have WM7's SDK for that which is what ISVs are probably already focused on.
[HD2 General] chteh2008:
i had try on my touch diamond2, but it just appear an error that 'DigiCompass' is not a valid Pocket PC application.:confused:
[HD2 General] bugsy:
Since ATT is supposed to be moving all 3G coverage to 850MHz by the end of the year I'm hoping HTC will release an 850MHz version. Actually, if ATT is all 850MHz for 3G HTC could just release the same model here as they do in Australia. You would get 3G coverage in the U.S. while still maintaining international 3G roaming capabilities. Just speculation, but maybe this is the driver behind the q1 launch. Let ATT get the 3G conversion finished and then roll the new flagship phone. Since they are losing their iphone exclusivity they need a new high end device.
[HD2 General] Teneka_Khan:
Does that mean there is no reliable way of playing AVI/DIVX movies on the HD2, as I must admit that was something I wanted.
[HD2 General] addicus:
Coreplayer should play them fine.