yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] vangrieg:
Nothing. I'm just curious to know what people find so attractive in Android and why anybody would want a device with this OS.

iPhone's Mac OS is a holistic nice-looking thing, where hardware and software engineers worked hand in hand to create an integrated experience. I understand why this product is attractive to many.

WM - well, the ultimate example of a software company that doesn't know anything about phones and a bunch of Taiwanese hardware makers whose R&D means "Replicate and Duplicate", so while there's nowhere to copy from they'll never do anything valuable in terms of user experience. Hence the lame user interface that needs to be tweaked. In any case, WM works nicely with Exchange so has some value for business users, and, most importantly, is close to desktop Windows, so porting applications is a breeze. Therefore, whatever the default interface is, it's easy to change. Also, there's .Net, C# and all that stuff that's easy to learn for anyone in a couple of days. Tons of code snippets/examples are available. So writing programs for WM is easy, and it's a huge potential difficult to overcome.

Android doesn't have any of the benefits of either Mac OS or WM. What makes it so attractive to you?
[Touch HD General] Step666:
But why does Android have to 'help' me?

Can I not buy an Android handset purely becauise I want to try it?

And I diagree with your conclusions about WinMo and the iPhone's OS.

I can see the reasoning behind it but I don't believe that it's correct.

I for one don't find the iPhone's OS particularly attractive, nor do I believe that it is in any way a superior 'integrated experience'. It's very plain and boring, just a grid of apps and nothing else, that does make it easier/more intuitive which is why a lot more people are able to use the iPhone than other smartphones but that doesn't automatically make it a superior OS - simpler may be better for some people but I know how to operate a mobile phone, so it's not for me.

As for WinMo, I think your comments are really rather unfair on HTC, Samsung and Sony Ericsson, to name but a few, who are working hard to provide a functional and attractive interface to use over the top of the OS. Of course there are some companies that aren't producing UIs of the same quality but to pass off every manufacturer who produces WinMo handsets as merely plagiarising each other is rather far from the truth.

And back to Android.

I personally feel it offers a nice balance between WinMo and a more polished but less flexible OS like the iPhone's. It's definitely slicker than WinMo but it still offers a more open approach to applications.

I would say that because it feels more like a finished product than WinMo does, it will be more commercially successful, especially once we start to see handsets with superior hardware such as the rumoured Xperia X3 (Rachael). And that will only help to drive the number of apps that are written for it, so it's win-win.
[Touch HD General] OnlinePredator:
It's *****ing time!

I gotta say after over half a year of winmo, i can't stand it any more!!!!! I am fed up with missing calls, restarting the device, slow performance, freezes, impracticality, and how complicated and non finger friendly it all is.

I had the stock rom for around 1 month, i wanted to send it back as I couldn't deal with the slowness of the system (ring delay and sms input delay mainly). SO i started flashing, and boy was it fun lol. Especially flashing the newer 6.5 os. I have never been happy with any rom (not chefs fault), I find that there are always positives and negatives and ontop of them there are the negatives of the windows mobile os.

Instead of going in to them I will explain how they impact me and how my phone does infact further itself from actually being a phone.

Firstly, my phone has frozen about 10 times over my ownership, 3 of which froze during the night meaning my alarms I set did not go off. Any lock screen app I have tried (s2us, throtlelock, smartlock,etc) have always made me miss calls, and have had a tenancy to slow down my device for a bit afterwards making it hard to call them back quickly. The fact that I am looking for the perfect rom, means that I spend time flashing new roms, and re-installing some apps and getting my old data back (although not complicated, I wouldn't have to do this on a nokia for example). I do understand that on a nokia I can't install new os's, but the only reason I am doing it on my winmo phone is because I am after a single rom that makes this device more like a phone.

I congratulate htc, samsung, sony etc for developing UI's that try and hide the winmo interface. In the end it's still not enough, like changing the ringtone (have to use file explorer to set a ring tone from your storage card etc) and sms tones etc. Although very customizable, its very complicated to get there (Start - settings - personal - sounds and notifications - notifications). All the little tricks also to get the phone to work well (like installing HD Tweak to get rid of the ring delay, a screen locking program to avoid accidental hangup's or answers out of your pocket, to make the time show on your taskbar!!, setting the time to auto update).

Having to put up with winmo6.5 slowness or 6.1 non-finger-friendliness..

Anyway I could go on forever. I really do love using my device, but i want a phone. I hope the N900 will be able to do this for me, it is the phone I am looking at as my next phone, or of course any new iphone that is out by next year!
[Touch HD General] vangrieg:
You sure can. I'm curious about your rationale.

And I diagree with your conclusions about WinMo and the iPhone's OS.

I can see the reasoning behind it but I don't believe that it's correct.

And we completely agree here. I said I understood why it was attractive to "many". If you're not one of those "many" that's a different story, no way to tweak it to compliance.

Sure they work hard, I never said they were lazy, but look, how much time did it take them to realize that interfaces shouldn't be stylus-oriented? And what triggered this mentality shift? Same with "kinetic scrolling" etc. I'm not saying they're plagiarists, they're not innovators. Neither is Microsoft. And the worst thing here is that none of them is developing devices as a whole. Yes, OEMs/ODMs are designing UIs "on top of the OS", while MS is designing the OS with its own (sometimes strange) biases, but nobody is working on an integrated user experience.

More open? How so? What's closed about WinMo? They have almost the same APIs as for Win32, which every developer has studied ad nauseum. You just get a copy of Visual Studio and you're set to go with application development without even learning programming, a basic dragging with mouse skill is enough. What can be more open than this?

What makes you say it feels more like a finished product? Have you used Android handsets?
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
ok guys, as the title describes, this thread is about what to get after the HD. I don't want this to turn into another Android thread. If it does I will close it.

Ta

Rick
[Touch HD General] fAZernERo:
me too! ;)

HTC 4 EVER!!
[Touch HD General] malestrom:
I just wanted to add my thoughts as well.I always search and compare before I buy a mobile phone.I have had a LOT of phones in my life , windows and not and basically they have all done their job.

My HD has never caused me any problems what-so-ever.I think it's because I haven't altered it at all.No freezes,no lags etc.GPS is working excellent.I can call people and they can call me.Sometimes I read about ALL these problems,when people start flashing ROMS and I think to myself "Why would they do such a thing when it will be worse...? Imean if HD was meant to have a 6.5 version or another manilla,it would be on HTC's download site...Just because the HD can "support" different ROMS and Manilla's,it doesn't mean they will work...

Anyway,to the point.

I'm thinking of the Samsung i8910.

Key features:

* 3.7-inch 16M-color capacitive AMOLED touchscreen, 640 x 360 pixels

* Symbian S60 5th edition with TouchWiz 3D UI

* ARM Cortex-A8 600 MHz processor; HW Graphic Accelerator

* 256MB RAM

* 8 megapixel auto focus camera with LED flash, geotagging, face detection, smile shot, image stabilizer, Wide Dynamic Range (WDR), ISO 1600

* HD 720p@24fps, 720x480@30fps, QVGA time-lapse and slow-mo video recording

* Dual-band 3G with HSDPA (7.2Mbps) and HSUPA (5.76 Mbps) support

* Quad-band GSM support

* Wi-Fi with DLNA technology

* Built-in GPS with A-GPS functionality

* 8/16GB internal memory

* Hot-swappable microSD card slot (up to 32GB)

* TV out (Standard Definition content only)

* FM radio with RDS

* Bluetooth and USB v2.0

* 3.5mm standard audio jack

* DNSe audio technology

* DivX/XviD video support with subtitles (HD video playback)

* Virtual 5.1 channel Dolby surround (in headphones)

* Proximity sensor for screen auto turn-off

* Accelerometer sensor for automatic UI rotation, turn-to-mute and motion-based gaming

* Magnetometer for digital compass

* Office document viewer

* Full Flash support in the web browser

There are no "serious" disadvantages.

I know it's symbian but the features are quite overwhelming.Can anyone help as to why I shouldn't buy this phone.Maybe some personal or other experience?

My 2 cents

:)
[Touch HD General] stoolzo:
I love XP..!

umm, I'm thinking Tegra or Atom based phone that is running XP with HDMI out so it could be used as a Micro PC. The tech is out there but we never get what we want, only what makes money for the manufactorers. Why sell a phone that does it all when they can sell you 10 that are only slightly better than the last one.

I have 12 months left on my HD, I dont see this happening any time soon / at all though.

That being said, I would buy and iphone3GS tomorrow if you could get rid of ITunes, yes I know you can jail break it but there is still no ative USB support like winmo.
[Touch HD General] Step666:
Without trying to sound offensive, that shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation.

How can the HD not be 'meant' to run WinMo 6.5 when other handsets such as the Diamond2 which has identical hardware (same resolution screen, same processor, same amount of RAM) are?

It's got absolutely toss-all to do with the handsets being 'meant' to run a certain version of Windows and everything to do with HTC trying to promote sales of their newer handsets.

As for the Omnia HD, it's meant to be a nice handset but the video recording (it's stand-out feature), is meant to be pretty poor.

It'd definitely be worth heading over to a Samsung- or Symbian- specific forum and reading the thoughts and comments of people that already own the handset - you'll probably find there's just as many people having problems with it as there are with the HD.
[Touch HD General] hoss_n2:
is it final that the hd will not get the wm6.5
[Touch HD General] Step666:
I believe so but I've not really been keeping an eye on things as I'm happy using the likes of Dutty's 6.5 ROMs.

However, to the best of my knowledge, the oldest HTC handsets that will be receiving official updates are the Diamond2 and Pro2.

Again though, I'm not 100% on this.
[Touch HD General] EOTEROG:
I think that my HD will have still a long life... thanks to this superb forum. This is the main reason for me to mantain my support on HTC and WM, here you can "change" your device just flashing, with low risk and no money spent. It's also funny for me.

WM 6.5 rus on HD, whatever this "meants". The last PDAVIET ROMs have huge improvements over the first ROMs with 6.5 that we tried some months ago, and we'll get new advances on the next weeks. This is amazing.

So, HTC Leo will be my next device... or not... Now I'm in love with it, but who knows what happen with my hearth in two months... I've been in love with a lot of devices that I never got.

N900 sounds good (I hate symbian, so it's a good Nokia bet), but, ¿there will be a xda-maemo-develoeprs to support it? It can be, but I'm afraid that not in short term.
[Touch HD General] EOTEROG:
BTW, What about a fully functional ANDROID ROM for HD? This can be the option to give a chance to this OS with the backup of WM if we don't like it.

I'm sure it's possible, I've tried the runable version of the HD WIKI, but there is still some work to do and it looks to be stopped.
[Touch HD General] Sasimi:
I'm either getting a really small phone or an android phone. Won't be touching WinMo till V7 comes out.
[Touch HD General] bogdatov:
Since Leo is confirmed and live ... Leo it is

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=4533433#post4533433
[Touch HD General] Step666:
I see nothing there that would count as confirmation.
[Touch HD General] idandush:
same same .

everytime i play with iphone and then touch my HD - i am really sad .

we have people trying to get a graphic drivers to get the pictures tab to be a bit smoother or something .

when there is a device in the amrket for 2 years who do the same flowlessly .

dont think i am going to touch WM again basicly . problem is i am stuck with this phone , i think that i will just give it to my brother :(

at least someone earn from this situation ! hehe
[Touch HD General] skulk3r:
I think that WM will have a chance once V7 comes out...I love the flexibility and how we can customise the crap out of our phones. iPhone is basically the same for everyone and it'll be the same phone..whereas our WM devices changes every time with a new ROM flash :D

Android will be the next step until WM7 comes out. TBH, HTC Leo is not the device for me because it's way too big (my HD is already big!) and it will probably not have a capacitive screen. I have read that HTC is working on a capacitive stylus! So that would be awesome!!! But i think that I will hold onto my HD until WM7 + capacitive screen for WM comes out
[Touch HD General] bogdatov:
Well, I guess pictures of real device with screenshots of processor/memory/OS/etc does not count :)
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
I heard through the grapevine that HTC Leo would have a capacitive screen and would indeed be smaller than the HD, though nothing concrete
[Touch HD General] JTHM:
That would make me interested. However, pda.pl (from memory the first site to accurately review the THD last year so has got some cred with me) has, yesterday, supposedly reviewed it with the 4.3" 800x480 resistive screen on WM6.5. This makes it way too big for me (I've got long, 9¼" span, spindly hands but my THD is only just one handed operable) and after playing with my wife's Hero I'm sold on capacitive screens. I don't even see how WM6.5 can cut it against Android despite the TF3D overlay. The 1GHz Snapdragon CPU would be sweet but hampered by WM6x.

Overall I feel a bit let down that the Leo looks to be semi-evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

My

list of improvements over the THD would be:

Capacitive screen, higher res. (?), but no bigger

Much faster processor

Better graphics and sound processing

- Tegra for the above perhaps?

More on board RAM (Gigs, not Megs)

Capacitive thumb pad sensor

Camera with better lenses, better processing and a proper flash

Better onboard speaker (for SatNav announcements)

Accessible microSD card slot

Android 3
[Touch HD General] Step666:
No.

How do we know that handset is Leo and, even if it is, who says it will ever be released?

Until HTC announce it, it has not been confirmed. Simple as.

That would probably just be a waste, not to mention ridiculously expensive - mobile phones already have about the highest pixel density of any displays that are available to consumers (a ppi figure in excess of 2.5 times higher than most consumer-grade LCD monitors), so to try and increase that would only add to the production cost.

It doesn't really matter what chipset the handset uses if HTC don't bother to licence the drivers.

Also, I've heard it said that the Tegra chipset, whilst great for graphics etc due to it's numerous dedicated processors, cannot match the likes of the Snapdragon CPUs in terms of raw processing capability, so it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement.

Since no handset on the market currently even has 512MB of RAM (as an example, the rumoured Leo specs are the only ones listed on PDAdb with more than 300MB of RAM) again, similarly to the point about the screen, I can't help but feel that that would just be an unnecessary cost.

If you need something that takes good pictures, then buy a camera.

Not a single mobile phone on the market is worth comparing to even a relatively-cheap compact digital camera.

So I take it we're presuming that Android v2 is going to be a bust?

Seems a little harsh to write it off before it's ever been made available.
[Touch HD General] JTHM:
I've just checked out the Youtube video of TF3D 2.6 on WM6.5 on the THD (cooked up by Miri) and again I'm underwhelmed. It is obvious that the THD is hugely underpowered for the WM6.5/TF3D 2.6 interface and it's bound be slicker on the Snapdragon powered Leo, BUT it still doesn't float my boat ...nice floaty clouds, raindrops and all. The interface is still very menu driven, clunky and restriced in how you can customise it ...and there appears to still be no intelligence in it's decision over the best orientation of photos for viewing! ;)

I've only used Android for a few hours but in those few hours I've become very impressed with it. It is a bit underdeveloped in some areas I feel but it is only V1.5 afterall. Beforehand I wouldn't hear a bad word said against WinMo - and if I did I'd laugh it off with a "Ah well, it's Microsoft afterall!", but now I've got to ask, what does WM6.5 have over Android for a manufacturer to lauch its flagship device (?) on it - even in Android's current "Cupcake" form? Please explain! My first impressions are that Google are well on the road to upstaging both Apple and Microsoft ...if they haven't already.

For a self confessed anti-iPhone-y such as myself it appears that Android on a reasonably powerful capacitive multi-touch screened phone, backed up by Android Market, is the only way forwards.

Nope, it looks like I'll be sticking with my Touch HD for the foreseeable and if push comes to shove I may even consider "downgrading" to a next-gen Hero or similar (with a bigger screen and Tegra processor - please HTC!).
[Touch HD General] JTHM:
Agreed, I'm actually perfectly happy with the res. of my THD. I didn't really think too deeply about my list otherwise I'd have put OLED down instead of higher res ...I'm sure you'll come back about cost on that one too! :p

Perhaps a happy medium then? But, conversely do we need raw processing power in devices that are becoming more media & web centric? It was

my

list and probably the most intensive non-media application that I use is SatNav which can be a bit clunky in 528MHz so the Tegra chip, being faster than the Qualcomm 7201, but serving my media playing and slick user interface well would, for me, cut the mustard.

Ok, I'll go with you here but what I actually meant, rather than RAM, was Onboard Storage (as I said I didn't think about my list too deeply). Not a huge amount, but more than is typically provided by HTC at the moment. This would serve when I have a set of apps/media that I use absolutely regularly, but also a set of less used apps that I wouldn't be concerned about being on swappable microSD cards - hence my requirement for an accessible microSD card slot.

I have - a Panasonic Lumix 'TZ6 for stills and a Panasonic HDC-HS100 for video. Neither of them are large but I don't necessarily want to drag either of them with me everywhere I go when all I might want to do is spontaneously "capture the moment" - indoors, or out. Look at the capabilities of Nokias, SEs and Samsungs (even the Omnia ...eeesh!). What I like about PocketPCs/PDAphones is that they are jacks of all trades and I don't have to carry loads of different little plastic boxes around in my pockets all day or think to myself, "What am I possibly going to need to take today" as I walk out of my front door. I want something that will have a go at making a decent fist of anything I chuck at it and I feel that HTCs in general are let down on all their models (no matter what their target market is) by their cameras - especially in low light.

PNDs generally do a better job of SatNav; PCs do a better job of accessing the internet, word processing, spreadsheets, etc., etc,; consoles do a better job of games; cameras do a better job of taking photos; argueably phones do a better/more reliable job of making phone calls than PocketPCs and PDAphones. I just wish HTCs did a 'better' job of taking photos - as pretty much every other manufacturer's flagship handset (bar Apple's :D) does.

Not at all. I'm looking forward to the release of V2 with great anticipation ...but V3's going to be better than V2 - can feel it in my waters! ;)

...and I want the best - that's why I bought a Touch HD (pre-ordered, sim-free, 7 weeks before launch ...and was prepared to pay £100 or so more for it).
[Touch HD General] bogdatov:
Because screenshots with device info match whatever has been published about Leo before. That is how we know it is Leo. Of course when HTC announces it - it is OFFICIAL. But as for REAL - looks real to me :)
[Touch HD General] Step666:
So these pictures confirm that the previous rumours about Leo are correct and the previous rumours confirm that these pictures are definitely of Leo?

You see the problem with that, I take it.

Also, where does that fit in with the alternative rumours that the likes of Fallen Spartan have heard?

If (and it is clearly a big if) those rumours are correct instead, then the handset pictured cannot possibly be Leo, can it?

I will concede that this is, in all likelihood, Leo - I should really have worded my previous post a little better.

But this handset is far from being 'confirmed'.

Phone manufacturers make plenty of models that never reach the market, same with every consumer electronic company - there are designs that are heavily developed but end up being dropped for whatever reason and the handset that has been pictured could well be one such model.

Nah, not going to comment on the cost of OLED screens - merely question why you'd stop with OLED and not go for AMOLED instead ;)

Well, every Snapdragon-based handset that has been announced or rumoured has also been described as having a dedicated graphics processor, so I would hope/expect it to be superior to pre-existing CPUs when it comes to media use etc.

Obviously it's very difficult to compare the two processors/chipsets but there's something about Tegra, especially given the seemingly-poor impressions people have had when using the Samsung M1 hands-on (a Tegra-based DAP/PMP, a la the Zune HD), that makes me wonder if it's really all it's cracked up to be.

Ok, no, that's fair enough.

I just see so many people nowadays who seem to expect their phone to be able to replace their digital camera when it's the one area that none of the manufacturers are really putting any effort into.

I don't suppose your waters have any idea what this Friday's Euromillions numbers might be? ;)

V2 is the one that will add support for better (read: higher resolution) screens, which I think is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for Android at the moment. Once that is possible, then a wave of new handsets such as the SE Rachael will really mark the point when Android will become a serious player IMO - and quite possibly the point when I personally shift away from WinMo.

If I came across as though I was trying to criticise your points, then I apologise.

I just relish the opportunity to discuss these sorts of things as no-one I ever get a chance to talk to in person is clued-up or interested enough to be able to hold such a conversation.
[Touch HD General] slud:
Its got to be LEO, see this!

http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7764
[Touch HD General] JTHM:
Really no apology needed - I'm of the same mind ...and fairly thick skinned (I'm told!)