yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] maati:
They are only equal in the things you can do withing the web browser. But if you take only the things that are done outside the browser, like tranferring files via bluetooth, multitasking etc., you'll see that WinMo does them all, while there's stilla lot missing on the iPhone.

Oh, and the 600MHz processor in the iPhone 3GS is definitely not as fast as a 1GHz Snapdragon processor, Cortex and Snapdragon are very similar. Just like Apple's flashless cameras will never deliver pictures that are anywhere near as good as Samsung's, and Apple's half VGA display is a joke compared to Samsung's WVGA OLED displays.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Lol, it's hilarious how far some people will go to justify a poor purchase. The hours and hours of posts......

Iphone = 2 years out of date, it's that simple. Personally, I left it behind because of its lesser capabilities. Suits me.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I agree with you on that and hope the 4th generation iPhone adopts a better resolution. May be Apple has tested it and found adversed effect on performance and decides that most of the applications other than internet browsing will not require a higher resolution? Even with internet browing, once zoomed in, does not require such resolution too.

Yes, it would be an eye candy to have that resolution though. This is the strong point on HD which nobody should deny IMO.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
My hair is already long gone mate.:D But seriously, may be when Maati had his iPhone it was the first generation phone and he is genuinely unaware of the true capability of iPhone. So I will not pull any more hair.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Why do you think it is a poor purchase? Be specific instead of making blanket and sweeping statements. All discussions are welcome, and we can learn from each other if we discuss in a calm and mature manner.

Unless one is working for HTC or Microsoft, there is no reason to try to stop any discussion that surfaces facts like this.

BTW, here is some more information on the processor used by the new iPhone, just to get an idea on the differences between 2nd and 3rd gen iPhone.

http://www.italkiphone.com/showthread.php?t=248

http://anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=2

http://anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=3

http://anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=4

If you understand these articles, you will never say that 3GS is outdated technology wise.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
No multitasking?, wonder how i can be on a call, have my email pushed to me, and look up an entry in the notes application, all simultaneously.

so does WM really do it all?? were you able to find a "fix" for my contacts problem ;)

And, there have been no benchmarks of OAMP3 vs Snapdragon, so lets just leave it at that :)

Apple's HVGA maybe a joke compared to Samsung's WVGA OLED display, but you conveniently forgot to mention that there is no WM phone with Samsungs Wondrous Display :)

Since you appear to be such a big samsung fan, i'd like to know your thoughts on HTCs products.
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Help I can't seem to find the price tag?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b&displaylang=en

They don't seem to have a price on the DTK either?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...1D-97A8-4F80-BC6A-AE010E085A6E&displaylang=en
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Did You Even Read what it said

"The Windows Mobile 6 SDK Refresh adds documentation, sample code, header and library files, emulator images and tools to Visual Studio that let you build applications for Windows Mobile 6."

Yes, i forgot, Visual Studio is free, or did it come bundled with your computer???

Nice Try
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...ec-ed72-4a79-8961-25635db0192b&displaylang=en

Please I'm serious this time, I'm curious?

http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/apply.html

It says It cost money? Is there a way around this?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Again, the link leads to the trial

This is More Like it.

http://software.pricegrabber.com/mi...crosoft-Visual-Studio-Pro-2008/m56464444.html

"To access iPhone SDK for iPhone OS 2.2.1 and additional technical resources and information, log in with your Registered iPhone Developer Apple ID and password, or sign up as a free Registered iPhone Developer today."

from

http://developer.apple.com/iphone/
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Yeah but when I went to get a Developer Apple ID it said choose your program $100/$300. I didn't see a free option at all. I didn't complete the whole thing as it asked for my credit card and I don't have one.

Doh! Found the SDK. So only the new SDK cost money?
[Touch HD General] jaxouk:
Just admit it you have made a mistake and feel stupid now harping on about your £400 investment ipod with a nokia 3210 features. Its ok you dont have to keep teling up about things it does, ... most of us have phones that do them things too. Its easy to feel stupid about yourself but dont worry i too made a mistake in getting one (2g model). TBh I kinda liked it at first, until I was exchanging a few holiday pics with a friend, "stick your bluetooth on mate" "my phone doesnt have it", "stop mucking about mate i`m in a hurry", "no seriously it doesnt have it", "****, how much was that phone mate, No worrys sure i`ll mms them too you, " "o well thats the thing mate, I havent got it set up for mms yet, (really i was too embarrassed to admit it cant mms this after my earlier ribbing"... This was was just the tip of the iceberg with the things it didn`t do and at first I would argue with anyone about the thing it did do but then i realized most other phones do this anyway but better...... I remember my n80/n95/n96 days and the early n80/95 in 2005/06 was doing more than the iphone today, satnav/ a2dp etc,...The n95 was a far more revolutionary phone than the iphone,..
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
no, only access to appstore (and actual testing of the app on the device) will cost you one time 99$ charge.

if you dont want to pay 99$ to test the app on appstore or plan to release it on cydia / installer, have a look here

http://www.saurik.com/id/8
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
But that ilegal isn't it? Wouldn't this be the same as using the uninstall trick on VS2008 to get a full working version?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Mate, it may sound harsh, but you did start of on the wrong note.

No one here wants to waste time arguing with a fanboy.

We all are happy, that you are satisfied with your current device.

as for n95 being revolutionary, look up the definition of revolutionary.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
yes and no.

The SDKs TnC state that apps made with SDK cannot be distributed in anyway other than the AppStore.

but the 2nd and 3rd option described on the page make modifications on the iPhone and not on the SDK

so in affect you are just copying the app complied, without modifying it, on a Phone without the proper checks, legally a grey area i would assume
[Touch HD General] jaxouk:
Mate, it may sound harsh,

NO NOT ONE BIT, SERIOUSLY? DO YOU HAVE TROUBLE CONTROLLING YOUR CHILDREN? IF YOU THINK THIS IS HARSH I WOULD IMAGINE YOU DO

but you did start of on the wrong note.

PROBABLY

No one here wants to waste time arguing with a fanboy.

FANBOY OF WHAT??? I HAVE OWNED NOKIA, APPLE, SAMSUNG & HTC PHONES

We all are happy, that you are satisfied with your current device.

ME TOO, TOUCH HD RUNNING MIRI 6.5 ROM

as for n95 being revolutionary, look up the definition of revolutionary

OK, HERE GOES: adjective

completely new and having a great effect:

NOW YOU TELL ME ONE THING REVOLUTIONARY THE THE IPHONE DID THAT HADNT ALREADY BEEN DONE BEFORE?? AND YEAH THE N95 HAD ABOUT 3
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/revolution

a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm <the Copernican revolution> e: a changeover in use or preference especially in technology <the computer revolution> <the foreign car revolution>

lets see

How Many Phones had a Huge Multitouch display with No/Few Buttons before the iPhone and a Finger Friendly OS??

How many Phones Had in Built 8 GB Memory in them??

How Many Phone had a Appstore or equivalent in Them??

Should i also list the date of launch of HTC Touch/ Nokia Tube just to put things in perspective??

Now Lets see

WM 6.5 - Biggest announcement - More Finger Friendly/ App Store

WP 7 - Biggest Announcement - Finally Support for Multi Touch Screens

S60 v5 - Biggest change - Finger Friendly UI

So yes, iPhone Was Revolutionary, before the iPhone, no one would give a ****e bout the UI/ Finger Friendliness
[Touch HD General] jaxouk:
hmmm no, there wheel was around before the phenumatic tyre, but this doesnt mean the phenumatic tyre inventor invented the wheel,... fair enough apple did a few nice things with the iphone but NONE of it wasn`t done before!

gotta go now i`ll argue with you later!!! ;-)
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Right well thanks for the info. I don't have an IPhone and its very hard to wade though the present information avalible as you will no doubt agree most people are so intent on writing the other team off they will say anything to get their shot off.

Believe it or not I was at work the other day and I was levelling up some formwork (I work in construction) and this idiot came up to me and put his phone on the form and said ‘it’s ok’. Like you could actually use an IPhone as a level. What a tosser, you couldn't tell him otherwise.

Anyway heres some alternatives to Visual Studio if you don't want to pay for it.

http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/

ok i'm pushing my luck here as it probably has next to nothing in the SDK for it, but a Pascal IDE

http://snapshots.lazarus.shikami.org/lazarus/

or try but its $39

http://www.arianesoft.ca/

there’s always basic too

http://www.nsbasic.com/ce/

Though I think this is $50

Like the IPhone, Microsoft’s older versions are free too. eVT and eVB are still available but I don't think they are supported by Microsoft anymore.

PythonCE

http://pythonce.sourceforge.net/

And if your still in school

https://www.dreamspark.com/

I believe Apple have the same sort of thing too.

How about C# on the PocketPC?

http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-c-ide-mobile-v9-0.html

Don't take this as a swipe it’s a legitimate question, does the IPhone have an application that will do this?

Apparently Mono too. Works with the IPhone too I’m told.

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

So yeah Microsoft might charge for the IDE (even though you can fix the trial version) but the SDK and DTK are free and you don’t need to fork out cash to develop for Windows CE. But I still have to concede you are right that you need the IDE to install either because (I don’t need to look, I’m just asuming) it would be illegal or as you say, a grey area to extract the MSI’s on their own.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
you may be interested in going through this http://www.saurik.com/id/4

and this http://www.hackint0sh.org/forum/f9/65583.htm#post395200

the OS 3 sdk will be available for free once its ofiicialy released (i think the RC has been seeded)
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
http://www.hackint0sh.org/forum/f9/65583.htm#post395200

Interesting. I'm amusing the second step 5 is replaced by "write code on bus/train trip"?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
"How Many Phones had a Huge Multitouch display with No/Few Buttons before the iPhone and a Finger Friendly OS??"

"HOW MANY PHONES NEEDED THIS?"

so why do phones suddenly need it now ;)

"How many Phones Had in Built 8 GB Memory in them??"

"N95 8GB"

via GSM Arena

iPhone - Announced	2007, January

Status	Released 2007, June. Discontinued 2008

N95 8Gb - Announced	2007, August

Status	Available. Released 2007, October

"How Many Phone had a Appstore or equivalent in Them??"

"AGAIN HOW MANY PHONES WHERE RESTRICTED TO ONLY INSTALLING APPS WHICH THEY BOUGHT OF THE PHONE DEVOLOPER"

you'd be surprised to know how many s60 and WM phone were crippled to used only software distributed by the Network providers.

So yes, iPhone Was Revolutionary, before the iPhone, no one would give a ****e bout the UI/ Finger Friendliness

hmmm no, there wheel was around before the phenumatic tyre, but this doesnt mean the phenumatic tyre inventor invented the wheel,... fair enough apple did a few nice things with the iphone but NONE of it wasn`t done before!

gotta go now i`ll argue with you later!!! ;-)

well in that case, all credit should go to bell labs for "inventing" the wheel

btw, long before MS, apple had invented and perfected the wheel, but as usual, there wheel would cost more than the car ;) http://oldcomputers.net/apple-newton.html
[Touch HD General] andes83:
I can't help but to notice that people that are defending the Iphone talk about all the generations that the Iphone's got against the HD yes the first one was crap yes the second was a bit better and yes the 3GS wil be a bit better when it's out on the market ....but it isn't out yet ...when you don't have any arguments you use the 3GS... let's not talk about future devices that are close to release cause WinMo devices with Snapdragon 1.3ghz ,1280x800 resolution and etc. are around the corner (see this thread http://www.gsmarena.com/qualcomms_qsd8650a_snapdragon_is_a_13_ghz_monster-news-943.php ) and what will happen to that brick 3GS of yours no wonder apple are hurrying with the release cause they see what's coming : WinMo 7 ,4 inch screens that's not science fictions and all of these will be WinMO or Android not Icrap i'm not going to give you an advice to spend your money but better save it for the new generation, HD still has enough juice to get you through the release of these monsters and 3GS is going to be "new" for about 3-4 months max.
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Nimish Mehta worked for Bell?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
http://www.cellular.co.za/cellphone_inventor.htm

should have been motorola :0
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Not worth my time arguing with you, sorry.

You see, I'm happy with my decision, therefore don't feel the need to justify with endless lengthy essays on the subject.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
I had a HTC Magician in 2004, which is the physical layout Apple copied. It was the Blackstone of its day, needed a lot of tweaking also, but a nice phone. Video, mp3s, internet - did it all.

In retrospect, it was well before its time; probably the first pocketpc phone to be actually properly pocketable. It was also something that a lot of the other manufacturers took notice of - in the industry the very idea raised a lot of eyebrows, with the screen size giving possibilities for massively greater functionality in a standard sized phone (and consequent ability to sell more models every year!). It took cheap 3g a few years later for a lot of that potential to be realised though.

Of course, the Magician didn't sell that much though, because like all HTCs it was a tweaker's paradise rather than a proper mass market phone (and really HTC haven't changed that approach until the latest touchflo3d).
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Although we can argue about whether apple copied the Magician or not (and i personally don't believe that they did) but i do agree that it probably was one of the best phones that HTC ever made.

i'm actually surprised to hear that it didn't sell a lot, because it sure was a hell of a machine.

Infact, this is what disappoints me bout HTC, there initial products (Blue Angel, Magician, Universal) were Extraordinary devices, however since then, the progress has been abysmally slow.

On a Side Note, i really loved the Motorola MPXs design :)

if HTC were to ever release a phone based on that design, i'll buy it in a jiffy.
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
This is probably one of the best post. Just look at the differences in looking at emails, and thats not just with emails that with EVERY app. Everything runs, feels and looks much better on the iphone.
[Touch HD General] homer285:
:D huh? not quite sure what you're taking about, is it the crappy resolution, the text being so small you need to squint to see it or the fact that spam doesnt properly get blocked?
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
here here!
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
Just pre-ordered my iPhone 3G S from ATT store yesterday. Looking forward to using a fluid proper User interface and 3G speed. I've been on Edge speed since I bought the Euro versions of the Touch Pro and Touch HD. internet loading and access is way too slow.

Wm6.5 is a joke. Microsoft dev team admited it rushed making 6.5. All I notice is a crappy plug-in interface and laggy lock feature that tries to mimic the iphone. I've also been using wm6.5 builds after it went GOLD..So its not like this is only older builds that are lousy. Microsoft would have been much better off focusing there dev team on working on Wm7 than even making a 6.5.

I may come back to WinMo and HTC when Wm7 comes out. Until then I'll be using my first iPhone.
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
You should have pre-ordered before the 13th, pre orders are now sold out and will take you up to 2 weeks to get your phone.

You wont go back to wm 6.1 6.5 nor 7 when it comes out after enjoying the iphone's OS.
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Oh please it looks old and ****ty on the HD.
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
Bold statement...
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
Email on windows mobile (in terms of the way it is displayed/formatted) has always been terrible. I was so disheartened to find out that nothing has been fixed for 6.5.

Sick of tapping to view internet pictures and tapping enable scroll right
[Touch HD General] maati:
Have fun with outdated hardware and limited software ;).

I'm gonna have even more fun with this: http://gizmodo.com/5291053/samsung-omnia-2-has-biggest-ever-phone-amoled-display-coming-to-verizon
[Touch HD General] tunppi:
Good luck with your Iphone then, what I did with my Diamond when my friend mocked me about Diamond being bad and he had Ip 3G, I sent 50 MMS messages to him and his Iphone said "Your phone doesnt support this feature, please go to http:/*** to see your message"

He had lots of fun deleting those.

I would never get Iphone. Bad battery life and way too limited OS. and ofcourse outdated hardware as said before.
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
Have fun with the same old tired operating system with the same old tied bugs from version 6.0 many years ago.

Have fun with no mainstream commercial development support for WM devices
[Touch HD General] Joyce1:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering how long ago the HD was launched I can't imagine that it will sell for top dollar.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Yeah, I even went back from iPhone OS 3.0 to Windows Mobile 6.1 - and I'm very happy with that decision. ;)

Oh, and did I mention that my Omnia 2 will probably have twice the battery life of the iPhone, a faster processor than the iPhone, a great camera with flash, 48GB of storage and a huge, crisp and shiny WVGA AMOLED screen?

... sure, it lacks a compass, but at least it's got WM instead of iPhone OS :)

EDIT: I just looked for the battery life of the 3GS and the Omnia 2:

iPhone: Up to 5 hours on 3G (according to Apple website)

Omnia: Battery: Talk time : Up to 10 hours (3G) (according to Samsung)

... that really made me lol :D
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
Which is no longer supported by anyone significant outside of xda developers.

Look I love the power and freedom of WM, but support is a big thing for me. I have a touch hd, so why is it that apps on my hd look like junk compared to the iphone version which is inferior hardware? Im talking about email, im talking about music id, im talking about last fm, im talking about ewallet..

Every since my original HTC Touch all the way up to my Touch HD (running 6.5 no less) I have always had to resort to installing some third part application because the in built windows mobile alarm clock simply doesn’t work/sound. Its this sort of continued ridiculous unreliability over such a mundane feature that is driving me elsewhere.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Sure... with 11 million Omnia owners vs. 14 million iPhone owners (a few months ago) I'd say the WM community is a lot bigger and with the millions that will buy the Omnia 2 and Omnia Pro support for the Samsung phones will be great (you can find lots of things on xda-devs, even with a Samsung phone, and there's modaco and lots of other communities).

I don't care how the apps look as long as the do the same things... I'm not missing anything on WM vs. the iPhone I had before.
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
but didnt u argue wm hardware was superior? if thats the case why do the apps look worse?
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
Like I said OS 3.0 his filled most of the gaps Iphone 3G was lacking with OS 2.0. Plus the hardware is now revised to a processor thats not just another 200Mhz bump but also a whole redesign in Chip archetecture. see here: http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/06/13/iphone-3g-processors-mhz/Hardly inferior hardware...sure the screen isn't WVGA, but Even the Touch HD using TOuch Flo3D lowers the resolution to that of VGA practically with the wallpaper. The internet you can't even read the text without zooming in and out over again. I know there are workarounds and tweaks here and there, but frankly I'm tired of hunting down cabs and doing tweaks to something that should run smooth and solid from the get go. I've been modding and tweaking since the TytnII. I want something different for a change until WM get's up to where it should be.

Problem is by next year the next gen Iphone with have a new OLED screen, faster processor again, and background tasks to name a few. Making it harder to decide again if I decide to get back into WinMo. We shall see..time will tell how well I enjoy my first Iphone in a business environment.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Because most developers use the standard forms for their apps. That has nothing to do with the hardware at all.

You really belive that the 600MHz processor in the 3GS is faster than the 800MHz Samsung processors or the 1GHz Snapdragon? :D

The architecture of the Cortex A8 is mostly the same that's used for Snapdragon and Samsung's processor, thus the difference is only the clock speed.

And it's very remarkable that Samsung is able to achieve twice the battery life for 3G telephony and 40% longer battery life in standby mode with 200MHz higher clock speed... and you call the iPhone hardware hardly inferior? :D

EDIT: http://www.dspdesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204700527

You should have your eyes checked... The HD can display a lot more text than the iPhone in readable size. Oh, and did I mention, that, if your eyes aren't good enough to read the text on the HD without zooming, you can set the minimum zoomed-out text size so that you actually never have to "zoom in and out over again"? It's easy (no cab needed^^) and you can't do that on the iPhone (like so much other things you can't do on the iPhone....).
[Touch HD General] hmoroni:
Good luck on the downgrading :P
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
The new omnia's look great, but there is no support here. If I buy a Windows phone its going to be an HTC because the support is so great here. I wont buy acer, Samsung, etc. unless they became supported by XDA. Besides I don;t have verizon and I don't get good service at my house with Verizon. Thats why I switched to ATT. Great service in my area and GSM. Also most good WM phones are European, which means running on EDGE speeds here for me if I get one. Just like I have been doing with my Touch Pro and Touch HD. It sucks after awhile.