yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] maati:
The frustration will come later. At first, I also thought like you, I liked the iPhone. But then I discovered more and more things that I took for granted on the Touch HD just could not be done on the iPhone - lots of small things like being able to see my appointents without opening the calendar (and not only on the Lock screen with Jailbreak), downloading documents from the internet and saving them on the device, ignoring incoming notifications, switching betwen apps without closing them, quickly transferring a file to a colleague via bluetooth (not everyone has mail on his phone) and lots of other small annoyances.

In the end, I decided to go back to the HD. There's lots of great phones arriving in the next few months and I'll also consider the Android devices - but I won't buy an iPhone again.
[Touch HD General] turcomora:
I dont know man. I have them both side by side and I am trying to be inpartial but windows mobile is really behind when it comes to user interface.
[Touch HD General] m.r.davies:
can i text using T9? (and not a qwerty keyboard)

like in the olden days

:)
[Touch HD General] maati:
@turcomora

If it's about looks, effects and being simple, yes.

But if it's about effectiveness, productivity, I'd say no. Being able to have the information you want on the home screen, the notifications solution and the ability to switch between apps without closing them actually make the WM UI more productive IMHO.

The iPhone UI is nice, but actually using it in a professional way is a pain. HTC's Sense UI, Palm's webOS UI and Microsoft's WM6.5 UI are a lot better that Apple's iPhone UI for "professional" use IMHO.

Besides the design and effects, there's nothing wrong with the WM UI, at least on a huge 3.8" screen where every UI element is big enough so that they're easy to use and you never need a stylus.

You seem to be someone who is using using his phone in a rather professional way (because you bought a Touch HD for yourself, an iPhone for your wife). Thus, I'd never recommend an iPhone to you. If you don't like WM, have a look at the upcoming Android devices like the HTC Hero, which has an interface that looks as good as the iPhone's, is as easy to use but a lot more professional (i.e. effective, productive).

I also had them both side by side for several months. I liked the iPhone, but for someone like me who doesn't care about games and other "cool" apps but wants to have a very "professional" device, a WM device "fits" better.

No, you can't.
[Touch HD General] turcomora:
The iphone 3gs does not blow the touch hd out of the water in anything in particular but it does do what it says without hiccups. When you call it is clear. When you text its quick and simple. It just works. I am using onkologs rom because of it's light version and stability and still get occasional freeze/reboots on a two week old device? On a device that put me back almost $1,000. When I pay that much money I expect top notch. I hate being part of the masses to jump on the apple train but you need to try the new iphone 3gs. It is a night and day difference from the original 3g.
[Touch HD General] maati:
I think it's because you are using a custom ROM that you get freezes/reboots.

'Light' does not mean stable, nor fast!

If you want to use a custom ROM, I suggest you try miri's WM6.5 V19. I've been using it for some weeks without a single reboot and it runs 100% stable on my Touch HD.

However, almost all custom ROMs are either less stable than the stock ROM or slower.

I've just been to the Apple store and tried the 3GS. The 3G was pretty slow (slower than the Touch HD), the 3GS is faster, but still not perfect. (it's faster than the HD, but being faster than a device that's one year older is easy).

I also compared the cameras, because the camera is very important to me. All the pictures I took with the HD were better than the ones I took with the 3GS. The 3GS is faster because it focuses automatically. However, I think picture quality is a lot more important than the speed.

While the 3GS is faster and adds lots of features, the main problems for professional use remain: The interface is hardly customizable, the notifications solution sucks and multitasking is still not possible.

I also tried the Samsung i8910, the HTC Magic and the HTC Touch Pro 2 today.

I think the Android interface is way better than the iPhone OS interface, because it is simple AND effective. The hardware is mostly the same and the hardware of the Hero is even better, so if I'd swith from WM to another system, I'd choose any Android device over the iPhone.

The Touch Pro 2 of course has the same interface as the Touch HD, which is the most professional (i.e. effective, productive) interface (along with the new HTC Sense UI, of course), but less simple/elegant/easy than the others (at least the parts of the UI that remain WM standard).

The Symbian interface sucks, IHMO. Well, at least Symbian does multitasking...

It's a shame that the i8910HD runs Symbian. It has the perfect hardware, but the OS sucks. Unfortunately, none of the phones that run better OSs have perfect hardware like the i8910HD.

I also compared the cameras of the Touch Pro 2 and the Touch HD, and for some reason, the Touch Pro 2 pictures were much better that the Touch HD pictures. In fact, they even were as good as the pictures I took with the i8910HD.

If the Hero's camera is as good as the one in the Touch Pro 2, then this will be my next device, or the Samsung Omnia II.

The iPhone is no option anymore, because now there's several phones that have better hardware AND better software, leaving no reason why should consider an iPhone.
[Touch HD General] slick69:
Please. The rest of the xda-devs forum swears by custom ROMs as being more stable AND faster than the stock ROM, and you're the only one saying that they aren't. In an iPhone thread nonetheless. What a coincidence.

The rest of your points aren't even worth glossing over. Suffice it to say that "interface" is the least of the iPhone's troubles.
[Touch HD General] maati:
You seem to have no idea about custom ROMs and user interfaces, really.

You think an interface is only about looking great, easily being controlled with fingers? Wrong.

There's a reason why every other OS except Apple's features a well-thought concept for notifications.

There's also a reason why every other OS is able to display information, not only icons, on the home screen.

Professional UIs also need more controls. The iPhone lacks too much options, to make the interface as simple as possible. But a good UI has to be more than just simple.

Look at the UI of Outlook Mobile there:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_nKpsFMquE&feature=related

Maybe it's not as simple as the one of Mail on the iPhone. But it's a lot more powerful. Some controls should be made bigger there and perhaps the design could be better, that's true. But this interface is still intuitive, every control is where it should be, it's powerful and MS has not tried to make it as simple as possible by removing controls, but to arrange the controls in a very effective way, which makes the interface actually better, at least for professional use.

It's the same with the rest of the interface. Apple just tries to make it as simple as possible whereas others try to arrange the controls that are needed for a professional interface in an effective way, which leads to far better interfaces for professional use (and doesn't mean that the interfaces are less user friendly, just look at Android or webOS).

From an interesting article by Paul Thurrott: http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_simple.asp
[Touch HD General] slick69:
And there's a reason why the iPhone OS is showing the most growth in the Smartphone space.
[Touch HD General] turcomora:
They both have pros and cons. I am going to keep my HD T8285 in hopes that windows mobile 7 will bring new life to my device. I am also admiring and learning to use the iphone 3gs. Maybe apple is not the devil, "althought they do have a bitten apple as the logo, hmmm". Yes getting the job done is the main objective of any device, but that does not mean my UI has to be outdated or ugly while doing it. I love windows and am now also a fan of apple. I hope that competition pushes each new device to higher grounds so that ultimately we as consumers/end users win in the end.
[Touch HD General] maati:
You have to distinguish between "consumer smartphone market" and "business smartphone market". Apple has created the consumer smartphone market, most iPhone users have never used a smartphone before, other vendors like HTC have just entered this market and are also showing high growth rates (HTC, for example, aims to sell 50% more devices in 2009 than in 2008 in the US).

While WM, Android, Blackberry and webOS are entering Apple's consumer smartphone market, Apple has just begun to enter the business smartphone market that is still owned by Microsoft and RIM.

The reason why the iPhone is currently showing the most growth is because it has created a new market. Microsoft's and RIM's business smartphone market has also grown fast over the last years and if you put both markets together, WM devices still outsell the iPhone, but of course the growth rate of WM sales is lower as the business market that WM is targeted at has already existed much longer than the consumer market created by Apple with the iPhone.

And by the way, do you always answer other people's posts with statements that are completely out of context when you realize you can't say anything against his arguments? That's typical behavior for Apple-fanboys...

This is so much better than iPhone OS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kshGq8COSiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLOndllpUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbcbBU

And the hardware is better, too:

http://gizmodo.com/5302637/htc-heros-teflon-coating-makes-the-iphone-feel-like-junk

Actually, I used to consider Android a "me too" clone of the iPhone OS - but I was completely wrong. Apple is really falling behind. Unfortunately, it will take some time until consumers realize that.
[Touch HD General] slick69:
I was a part of the consumer smartphone market when HTC was in diapers. It took Apple coming in to get the others to realize that hey, people have money and want functional and appealing devices. And for that full credit goes to Apple. Without the iPhone we wouldn't have had TouchFlo or TF3D.

Microsoft doesn't "own" the business smartphone market. RIM does, and MS is just a bit player in that segment.

Your other points are so laughable it's not even worth the effort because I've been using Windows Mobile for ages and recognize what is possible and what are fantasies.
[Touch HD General] maati:
iPhone fanboys like you are laughable. If you can't find arguments, you just insult others. Enough said.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
3G is still way faster than HD. See this test:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=4032522&postcount=205

Many of your other points regarding iPhone are factually incorrect, but it's too tiring to go over it all over again, so I'll leave it as that. The others who are really wanting to know what iPhone is like might want to just bear this in mind.
[Touch HD General] homer285:
Oh please give us another 1000 word post NOT to read, all the tests in the world wouldnt convince me to buy another iphone. hehehe
[Touch HD General] maati:
I second that! I've tried the iPhone and now I'm back to the HD. ;)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
You said you're a developer for iPhone and that you've tried iPhone. Yet you said things like it can't do things like tethering, download stuffs from internet, multitasking, bluetooth file transfer? Not sure what your requirements are, but mine on those areas are met adequately at least, although I'm sure more improvements could be made. For me, once Tom Tom is installed on my OS3.0, I would be able to do everything that I want my HD to do with my iPhone, plus lots of other things that my HD can't do.
[Touch HD General] maati:
What's wrong with saying that? It's true that it can't do those things, or at least they don't work well.

Tethering, bluetooth and multitasking require the Jailbreak but even with iBluetooth, Backgrounder and PDANet, it doesn't work most of the time, downloading files is impossible.

And why would I pay 99€ for TomTom again? I already have bought it for WM.

And please, tell me something the HD can't do, because I don't know anything that the HD can't do (and please don't talk about games, I don't care about gaming).

Before selling my iPhone, I've compared the features and apps I need and I've discovered that there's nothing that the HD can't do. The iPhone does some things quicker and some of the apps are better (e.g. AroundMe vs. Live Search), but there's really not a single feature I'm missing on the HD (despite a flash, but the iPhone doesn't have one either).
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
here

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=524319

but you must know about it, since you started the thread ;)
[Touch HD General] maati:
Yeah, but this is only the 3GS which has also a compass that the 3G has not. The 3GS is really a lot better, adding most of the features that the 3G was missing (and WM has had for ages).

I would perhaps exchange my HD for the 3GS (though it still has a lower display and camera res) but there's lots of great WM phones coming in the next few months that will be a lot better than the 3GS (like the Omnia 2, Omnia Pro, XPeria 2, Acer F1...) and I'll be getting one of those.
[Touch HD General] saminegm:
Okay.... lets go

1) It can run more quickly, reliably, responsively, and smoothly.

My HD is reliable, responsive and smooth (Miris ROM)

2) It can provide consistent user interface across all applications.

True. But is it ALWAYS adequate?

3) I can use finger all the way, and not having to pull out the stylus when the final application is evoked by the front end launcher.

True. And you cant you use a stylus if you want to. Make a few handwritten notes with your finger on your iPhone....

HARDWARE

1) It can prevent unintentional making of calls since there is no green phone hardware button.

PocketShield

2) It can prevent unintentional rejecting of calls when trying to take it out of my pocket.

PocketShield

3) It let's you hold it without having to worry about accidentally touching the hardware button.

PocketShield

MULTI-MEDIA

1. It can smoothly and quickly scroll the thumbnail pages of photos with no lag or delay, using gestures alone.

True.

2. It can play music without occasional stutters.

I dont have stutters on my HD at all. And I am not tied to iTunes and a PC or Mac to get my files on the phone.

3. It can play video without frame drop, and without having to spend months tweaking it.

Well... there is a free tool here at devs which takes you two clicks to convert a dvd. Most files work without converting anyway.

But... why you want to watch video files on an iPhone with that low resolution?

4. It It can directly download free movies and musics without requiring any PC.

True.

5. It can hide sensitive movies and pictures making it completely hidden from prying eyes.

Hmm... I can hide my whole phone. And there are tons of applications to encrypt files for WinMo

6. Shazam can do things which Music id can't.(e.g., Save all the tags I've made. After identification, let me either buy it from iTune or play the same music video from youtube)

Dont know about that.

7. Besides music identification, I can take a picture of a book, CD, or DVD, and get the prices from major retailers so that I get the best bargain.

Good.

8. Edit photos after taking it on the device without PC (e.g, Noise reduction, change contrast, change brightness, etc)

Good, but how do you tell if you editing is good with that resolution? Besides... What is the reason for editing? A 2 MB camera maybe?

9. Specialised applications to upload and share pictures and video on sites such as photobucket, facebook, friendster, flickr, and hundreds of other sites effortlessly.

to be continued
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
All this bickering is pointless. The fact is both Microsoft and HTC dropped the ball. The Touch HD is a wonderful device in terms of spec on paper but it doesnt run like one. Windows Mobile is powerful but has been awfully neglected by MS. No one in the mainstream supports or develops for WM anymore and that is behind my decision to purchase an iphone 3gS next week. I will be back when WM 7 is released and all the problems are solved (hopefully), but ive had enough. and yes ive been running 6.5 the past month.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Mine does run just as well as the specifications suggest. It's fast (faster than the iPhone 3G) and it does everything I want.

I liked the iPhone 3G, too, but I don't see any reason to prefer it over the Touch HD.

It's true that Windows Mobile has been awfully neglected to the point where the iPhone has (almost) cought up now with it's third release (voice command, copy&paste, navigation....) but there's lots of WinMo devices coming in the next few weeks/months with much better hardware and all the features that have just been added to the iPhone (and WinMo has had for ages).

The iPhone 3GS will already be outdated within just a few weeks... and I even think that Microsoft will advance faster than Apple over the next two years or so - they're just now beginning to push WinMo forward again and they're doing this with great effort.
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
Too much bickering. Each device has it's pros and cons. I do know the Touch HD has spoiled me on screensize. I couldn't imagine going back to my old Touch Pro 2.8" screen. Even the new Palm Pre's screen is small in comparison.

I for one want something different for a change and I'm tired of not having 3g speed and I'm tired of tweaking and updating roms to solve issues with the previous rom. I'll probably be getting the Iphone 3Gs this next Friday. But I'm sure I'll be back to winmo when the next gen Winmo phones come out with snapdragon and/or Tegra. Only problem being in the US is it takes forever to get these next gen phones with 3G here. However I might could live with 2.5G Edge speeds on a 4" screen and a snapdragon 1Ghz processor like the TG01.:D

Still got some thinking to do. I really wish the touch pro2 would come out now for ATT...sadly it will be another 2-3 months at best.:(
[Touch HD General] slixter:
How do you work out that it's 'faster' than the 3G? I assume you don't mean video playback ;) Cos a 2 year old iphone kicks the HD's ass in that regard.

And what makes you think WinMo will advance faster? They've had years working on WinMo and haven't done **** with it. The first generation of mobile OSX is still way ahead of where WinMo is in terms of UI.

There's 1 reason to perfer the HD over the 3G -being able to drag and drop movies / music. Iphone wins in EVERY other area including web browsing and music / video capabilities. And let's face it, that's what people want from their mobile devices, not some 3rd rate GPS client or some useless Microsoft Office client.
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
HD's screen is much better in terms of resolution.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
duh, how is that even remotely related to what slixter wrote???
[Touch HD General] crazililazn:
LOL your post is funny. The iphone is better in web browsing... have fun zooming in every time u need to click a link cuz of the mediocre resolution XD...better in music...yep with crappy speakers, its going to be better than hd(this actually tested by guys at gsmarena)...video capabilities...well it should perform better on 320x480 res screen, less pixels to refresh. and even then hd plays videos pretty smooth. i can play a video at 480x800 res on album and it has very little skipped frames, to the point that if u dont actually look for them, you cant see them...3rd rate GPS client...so your saying that the TomTom that is coming out in the app store is a 3rd rate gps client o.o...and people who are on the go often(businessmen) use the microsoft office client to read/write documents. So just because it does not fit your needs, it does not mean it is something that ppl do not want.
[Touch HD General] maati:
It's faster in everyday tasks like launching applications etc. and it is indeed better/faster for video playback.

The iPhone only plays videos that have been converted with iTunes. If you convert any video for the Touch HD to that format, the HD will play that video faster.

Just like the iPhone, the Touch HD has video acceleration for .mp4 files ONLY which run faster on the Touch HD than they do on the iPhone.

The problem is that most people don't convert their files before playing them on the HD and thus the videos run sluggish. But those videos would not even play at all on the iPhone and I'd say sluggish is still better then not at all.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Steve will pullout whatever hair he has left if he reads this :)
[Touch HD General] jaxouk:
I used to be an HTC owner, I was failing in my job, my wife was disappointed with me and I had absolutely no private life, all because of my phone. However, now I have an iPhone! Of course, I don't actually know much about Apple's history, or own any other Apple products, I just got caught up in the hype.. I don't mind that it doesn't have a very good camera, doesn't capture video and doesn't have GPS (well not the 2007 model, when this was common practice in a £300 phone), and I will gladly (and incorrectly) tell anyone who will listen that it does things which it doesnt & about the endless lists of stupid apps I can BUY. The important thing is that most of the people I meet in clubs and flash my phone to are so superficially interested in it that they don't realize it lacks everyday £40 phone features! All I have to do is flick through a couple of album covers, do the 90 degree phone turny thing and slide it back in to my pocket as if the rest of it's features are too complicated for them to understand (instead of the rest of the features just not existing). The great thing is that since I got the phone, I have slept with 2 gorgeous blonde ladies! Although one of them couldn't spell 'iPhone' and the other could barely spell her own name). Still, at least I don't have one of those dastardly winmo`s where the battery life is great, hotswapable memory, the applications plentiful and easily installed and where I am limited to only ALL of the available service providers in my country..
[Touch HD General] slixter:
Web browsing is way better on the iphone, at least when it zooms it zooms where you want it to, and not off to the edge of the page. And it's pretty hard to read text without zooming on the HD.

I don't see the point of having a high-res screen if you can't make proper use of it.

The speaker on the HD is almost as bad as the one on the iphone, maybe it's a 2% improvement, but you'd be hard pushed to tell which was which is you compared them side-by-side. Wouldn't you be using headphones most of the time anyway?
[Touch HD General] slixter:
Hmm. Battery life on the iphone beats my HD. Apps aren't particularly easy to find and install - well, i guess they are if you download a torrent, and good luck when you lose your spare memory cards!

PS HD doesn't have a very good camera either, I've yet to take a picture that isn't blurry
[Touch HD General] maati:
What?!? That was a joke, right?!

At least, the iPhone's battery life is a joke compared to the Touch HD's.

OMG, are you serious?! You can't read text on the HD without zooming?! Either you mixed up HD and iPhone there or you should contact your eye doctor.

A joke again? You can't make proper use of the great WVGA screen of the HD? Seriously, there must be something wrong with your eyes.

Let's just pretend you didn't say that, because otherwise, I would have to accuse you of talking bull****.