yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] maati:
The Samsung Omnia has outsold all HTC devices and the Omnia 2 and Omnia Pro will probably outsell the Touch Diamond 2 and Touch Pro 2, too, so you won't have to worry about support if you get a samsung device, there's already a large community for the Omnia that will grow very fast with Samsung's new devices.

Like always, the iPhone will be one year behind again by then (OLED screens on WinMo devices now vs. one year later on the iPhone, for example...). Also, WinMo 7 will already be out by then and it's going to be much better than iPhone OS (because Microsoft already has experience with useful, non-disruptive notification concepts, multitasking etc. look at the Palm Pre's notification area and cards concept to see what I mean).

Oh, and I hope you're not working for Microsoft: http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=5086
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
Thats not my point. I KNOW my touch Hds hardware is capable but wm holds it back, thats why wm apps look and perforn like junk, because no develooers make an effort with it. its a sinking ship
[Touch HD General] maati:
Wrong. With Silverlight coming for WM, WM7 (http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=4761) and developers starting to realize that developing for the iPhone is not profitable (http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=4906), I'd say the iPhone will be the sinking ship in the long run, if Apple doesn't turn around 180°.
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
lol..hardly...the lines will be just as big this year for the 3G S as there was last year for the 3G. ATT pre-orders are already sold out for Fridays launch date. Since when has that ever happened with a windows phone or any other for that matter. Pre sold like 3 or 4 phones per store on opening day. Apple is still on the rise and constantly improving. Microsoft's WM is sinking in popularity due to the complexity and clunkiness of the OS. Until they can come out with WM7 and thats if they get it right they will never be able to competively compete with Apple.
[Touch HD General] slixter:
"I just bought EA’s version of Scrabble for my iPhone for a measly $5.99. That’s a beautiful game by EA, polished, error-free, easy-to-use, fun and absolutely gorgeous. I should have paid $24.95 for that game and been happy about it! Instead, EA had to sell it to me for $5.99. What a shame.”"

This is the guy you're listening to, right?

I think Apple is doing just fine without your 'doing a 180' advice.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Some months ago, there were sales figures announced for the Samsung Omnia and the iPhone. Apple had sold 14 million iPhones, Samsung had sold 11 million Omnias within the same time frame.

Considering there's a higher competition in the Windows Mobile phones market, I'd say the sales figures of the Omnia are at least as good as those of the iPhone.

Furthermore, considering that the HTC Touch HD is significantly better than the Omnia, I'd even say that the Touch HD could have outsold the iPhone if HTC had decided to release it in the USA.

I suggest you stop believing all the Apple propaganda and start looking at actual facts.

Yes, but that's gonna change rapidly with the release of WinMo 7 and lots of Android and (perhaps) WebOS devices. If Apple don't change their stragegy, the iPhone will be going down faster than you think.

Yes, because this guy is a developer who knows how much work is put into an application, not a consumer who only wants everything as cheap as possible and doesn't care whether the developer gets paid for his efforts.
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Soon windows wont even exist. Mac and Linix are the future. Windows is garbage from there computers to there phones, garbage. Its sad when you have to change your rom everyday with custom ones just to try to get one that isn't as buggy as the last one.
[Touch HD General] maati:
lol :D How long has it been the year of linux now? 10 years? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of open source software, but 1. Mac and iPhone are not open source, they are even more locked down than Windows 2. Linux is not ready yet, but it's getting better and better.

If closed source, locked down software disappears, Apple will be gone long before Microsoft starts to sink.
[Touch HD General] slixter:
You're right, that guy is a developer. 1 developer.

I could quote you 100 iphone developers who are making a killing on the app store. Just cos some bitter WinMo guy isn't making the living he thinks he should be.....You're welcome to your $39.99 apps, I'm sure they'll sell by the dozen.

When does WinMo 7 come out again?

I'm sure your new phone that hasn't been released, and that amazing software that hasn't been released will be just AWESOME!
[Touch HD General] slixter:
LOL. You're not serious. The actual facts?? The actual facts that you just pulled out of your ass in the previous paragraph?

"'I'd say"

"'I'd even say"

"If HTC had"

Dude, if that's your 'facts' then you're on another planet.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Sure. :D You've become a victim of the Apple propaganda again...

Way before the next iPhone, which means that, just like all the iPhones before, the next iPhone will be already be outdated again when it's released.

But, unlike the iPhones before, it won't be able to please people with it's UI because WinMo and the others will feature the same finger-friendlyness while running on better hardware and keeping the advantages they had before (like more freedom for users & developers).

That means Apple has to turn around, give users & developers more freedom, make better hardware, allow multitasking, deliver a better concept for notifications etc. if they don't want to lose the game in the long run.
[Touch HD General] maati:
I've told you the facts, like the Omnia selling almost as many devices, Silverlight coming for WM, the AppStore not being as profitable as the Apple propaganda tells you, the iPhone processor being slower etc.

If you're not able to read, that's not my problem. Please go back to school then.

Enough said, I'll enjoy my Touch HD now, waiting for the Omnia II and leaving you with your outdated iPhones ;)
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Maati, the iphone wont loose anything in the long run. When WM7 comes out it will be just as buggy as the rest of them.
[Touch HD General] slixter:
I am able to read. It's a shame only one of us is able to comprehend.

I thought your 'facts' were gonna prove how great WinMo is, not just tell us that Silverlight is coming out and the Omnia has sold almost as much as the iphone. Rivetting stuff!

How come my underpowered iphone plays video a lot better than my HD does?
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
And how come we can see our screen in the sun unlike the HD?

And how come I dont have to use my finger tip to touch?

Outdated?????? LOL
[Touch HD General] maati:
My facts were about proving the Apple propaganda, that you've become a victim of, wrong (including the BS people post in blogs etc. about the 3GS processor being faster or every iPhone developer making a fortune) ;)

It's because, as I said befor, you're apparently not able to read. Just convert your videos to .mp4 and they will play a lot more smoothly than on the iPhone.

Furthermore, the iPhone can ONLY play .mp4, while the Touch HD plays everything. But for playing videos smoothly, the need to be converted on EVERY phone due to the hardware architecture.

Thus the point for video playing goes to the HD ;)

Turbo0wned, your posts are not even worth being read, let alone being answered ;)

I'll do it once: I don't have a problem reading the HD screen in direct sunlight. It's almost as bright as the iPhone's. And it's bigger, more crisp and has better viewing angles.

And you don't have to youse your fingertips because you can't even do that :D Being able to use the fingertip is an advantage, even on the iPhone's UI (e.g. for the keyboard or the small media and info buttons).
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Im sorry I was just stating some facts.
[Touch HD General] slixter:
My iphone can play .avi, .mpg or .mp4 and probably a bunch of other formats I've never used. Think that's a lot easier than spending an hour converting each movie. Thanks anyway ;)

I never mentioned earlier, I'm left-handed. So WinMo sucks even more for me than it does for most people
[Touch HD General] PoisonWolf:
Slixter,

How exactly is this a problem for left-handed people? I'm a left-handed person and I've not had any problems nor any complaints.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Are You willing to take a challenge/ test then???

i have asked a few blokes around but no one agrees to this.

i will provide you with a couple of clips, all encoded in h264 in the mp4 container with aac sound according to the spec. mentioned on apples site http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

if your HD is able to flawlessly able to play these files then this would settle this doubt once and for all.
[Touch HD General] maati:
Please download the encoder from there: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=467112 and try it yourself.

My Touch HD has no problems playing WVGA videos with sufficient bitrate and my HD is not different from all the other HDs out there, so it's just people not understanding that (like with every other phone out there) they have to recode their videos and Coreplayer doesn't have hardware acceleration.
[Touch HD General] slixter:
The point for video slides effortlessy over to the iphone ;) Unless it's on the HD that is, and it hangs around for a couple of hours until it's recoded and judders along to its destination
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
but can it play this

"H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file format"
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
btw just wanted to mention that TomTom will be coming to the iPhone this summer along with an optional TomTom car mount that charges your iphone and swivels to landscape if you like. here is the video for those of you that doubt tomtom will come to the iphone.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afwq2_HGJ1A
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Are these DRM protected files?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
No,

it's just the technical specification of the files that can be played.

I think apple has done a great job by listing these publically (i'm looking at you HTC)
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Ok I'll give them a go. You've got to try everything once don't you? :) I'll go and see my brother, he's got an I-Touch (Same thing as an IPhone?) we'll see if/how they run side by side. Not just your Videos, I'll try some other stuff too. Maybe we can see how well the I-Touch runs WMV or Divx or whatever the others were mentioned here? Maybe a few web pages, music files. Can you think of anything else?

So I'll PM you my email? Will that do or do I need to download them? Once there on my brothers I-Touch do I need anything to send them to my HD? Will my brother need any software to play the other files on his device? BTW it’s not jailbroken, will I need to do that too? Should be fun, might take me a while (few days) I'm not exactly in an over populated area. (My brother is about two hours drive away)

Sorry if I've missed something, as I proven to be pretty good at that. Honestly I haven't been reading the whole thread here. It's a force of habit to never read posts that start with "I" (I’m, I’ve). Sounds stupid but it’s my experience that everything following after the "I" isn't worth reading. :)

BTW I'm an IPhone noob, can you recommend a program for screen shots, I'm a nice guy but I don't trust myself so I don't expect anyone else in this thread will be willing to "take my word for it" either.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Short press both the power on/off button and home key together. You do not need any extra software to capture screen shot. You can capture even the lock screen with that, without having get into springboard. The picture will be saved in your photo album. Yet another example of why I prefer iPhone's functions and features as compared to winmo's. You can capture the screen without having to start any program (the process of which sometimes upset the appearance of the screen that one wants to capture).
[Touch HD General] maati:
Please upload such a video.
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Had a look at the site you supplied and I'm a little confused? The specs:

Video formats supported: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

The question: how does the new phone support a 640x480 res file with only a 480x320 screen?
[Touch HD General] m.r.davies:
oh dear

what did i start?

in a nutshell what are the difference (no petty crap please)

as i see it.

Iphone

- poor screen res (but brighter screen)

- Not multitasking (but remembers last position i.e. on webpages)

- videos need converting

HD

- can be slow to use when compared to iphone

- touch screen isn't as good as iphone
[Touch HD General] PelloG:
That's the point, why Touch HD is my last HTC Phone. Nobody cares about HTC or WiMo but everbody cares abot iPhone and make very nice and usefull apps or accessoires.
[Touch HD General] Dude10:
selling my HD

I decide the same. I´m tired to change always ROM´s, to get a better an faster system. The developers are to fast with creating new versions. If somebody is interrested to buy my phone, can let me know. I would even like to change it with a iphone 3s.

It´s from last year Dec.

Now I have WM 6.1 installed and it will stay for long now. The HD is in a Top condition.

Dude10
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Huge downscale to its cute and dinky 80s style teletext blocky resolution.

Meanwhile, the HD happily runs 800*480, so you can actually see what's going on when using it as a video player.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Have fun with the outdated and broken OS, with equally outdated sets of application software. Nobody really wants to waste time fixing the broken OS.

Very very few developers bother developing applications for winmo anymore because they know all their work will have to be thrown away with WM7 is released, with brand new sets of API, etc yet to be developed. The stylus-centric applications with insistent user interface are antique, with very limited functionalities as compared to what iPhone offers today. This is a fact whether one wants to acknowledge it or not.

If you want to know what winmo developers are saying on this matter, this might be an interesting thread here:

http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html Post #8 by Alex_Kac (Pocket Informant Author) is very insightful. Among the things he said is:

"The iPhone is a full multi-tasking OS. It just puts a policy that THIRD PARTY apps must be run one at a time. But the iPhone OS is far more powerful than WM. WM is stuck with 32 processes. iPhone OS can have thousands. WM can have 32MB heaps on the apps. No such limitation on the iPhone OS. Everything is an OpenGL window on the iPhone OS - that means I can do lots of fancy effects. Want to flip a view? 4 lines of code."

Regardless of what hardware you upgrade to, you're still in this OS that more and more people are dropping now. This is the days for modern OS like iPhone, Palm Pre, and Android, with iPhone leading the pack now because of the vast array of good application software. Going out is also resistive/unpredictable/unresponsive touch screen.
[Touch HD General] homer285:
its an email you banana it doesnt have to look good :D it just needs to download fast without unnecessary pics and spam, but then like most suckers no doubt you bought an iphone based on "looks" :D you cant fool anyone with that email crap, I had the iphone, its crap! now I have HD heh heh heh.
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
So you are JUSTIFYING the terrible way Windows mobile 6.0/6.1/6.5 displays HTML email (which is very common).

Its not just about blocking spam, why cant it display pictures - why do I have to tap to display them? On a Touch HD with its huge screen and high resolution, why cant the entire email display on the screen without the need to scroll down and right - and furthermore why do I have to tap to enable right scrolling? Do you know how frustrating and time wasting this is when you want to read a quick html email.

The touch hd has a higher res screen than iphone, yet pictures in email appear blocky while pictures in iphone email are pefectly clear.

We can go on about superior WM hardware until the cows come home, but until MS 'ups their game' then WM will forever hold back and waste this hardware. Omnia 2 perfect example.
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
Hmm so all the API's from 2002/2003/5/6.1/6.5 are going to be replaced? I wouldn't bet your house on that. I'm pretty sure any programs written for previous versions of Windows Mobile will run on Windows Mobile 7.

Microsoft might be adding more API's but they would be cutting their own throat if they where to do a mass depreciation of API's.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
You might be right on that. However, can you imagine customers buying applications with the look that has been there since WM2003SE? So, what I'm saying is that for the developers to have compelling software for the customers that would open up their wallets, developers would have to rewrite when WM7 becomes available. The software would want to make use of the new transition, controls, graphics, etc. I'd bet on that, yes. Notice how little activities there has been lately in new winmo applications? If you read Alex_Kac's post, you'll gain understanding on what's really going on.

Examples of compelling software that I'm refering include Resco Contact Manager. If you're tried this like I had, you will right away know that it is the kind of sofware you want on your device (although the problem is when it comes to the last bit of creating and editing contact, you see the old crappy MS contact once again).

According to Alex_Kac:

"We know that WM7 is going to compete against the iPhone. We don't really know how yet, but we know it will. That means finger friendly controls. All the work we do will be for naught as we'll have to throw it all away and use the native WM7 controls and then we'll all be finger friendly compliant. Now if it takes such a long time to do this and by the time we release we'll have to throw it all away - why do it? Up to now I have seen no reason to waste work."

In post 79, Alex said:

"with the changes Microsoft has to make UI wise to make WinMobile competitive, we're going to have to rewrite a lot of code anyway. And from what I have heard in the pipeline...its a radical new change. ...I hate having to rewrite my code, but on the other hand I know that with the current graphics engine and windowing model, just adding "transitions" isn't going to cut it."

In Post #12, IliumSoftware said:

"And yes, I also agree that we need more support from Microsoft. The Windows Mobile infrastructure is beginning to crumble. Pocket PC Magazine has stopped publishing. The WM distributors are clearly struggling. Microsoft needs to be showing the ISVs that they're still strongly behind the platform."

In Post #18, VITO said:

"It took us much time to develop finger-friendly applications. And still our apps can't work perfectly on each WM device as there is a great number of hardware restrictions and differences. Each update of WM OS or release of a new WM device turns out to be a big trouble for developers as they should fix all bugs and incorrectly working software."

Sev, in post #54 commented:

"As for Why are Windows Mobile Apps falling behind IPhone ones? Perhaps it’s as simple as this – development houses realise that people want to use iPhones?"
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
And there you have it - Windows Mobile has no support from developers anymore, apart from you folk on XDA Developers.
[Touch HD General] Dalboy:
I (yeah you don’t have to read this if you don’t want to) haven’t said one device is better that the other. It’s a personal preference so even though you or I might think this or that about a device it’s still a personal preference as to which is the best. We can argue till the cows come home as to whether blonde's or brunettes are better in bed but the fact is there are guys out there that prefer to sleep with fat chicks and there is no changing their minds no matter what.

I think the IPhone is the best thing ever to happen to Windows Mobile. It’s really kicked Microsoft and all other mobile manufacturers in the butt. But that only really part of the story for myself, Windows Mobile is not an OS. All Windows Mobiles are built on top of Windows CE. When you look at how many devices have Windows CE or Embedded CE in them you will shock yourself. Ok I’ll try and get to the point, Microsoft suffers from its own success, they have so many devices based on Its OS that they don’t have the same luxuries as Apple. How many devices do they support? Three IPhones and are there three models of the Touch? The last program I developed (Thank god I don’t do that anymore) was for a Metrologic Barcode scanner for QLD Health. I had to develop with Touch Screen, Bluetooth, Wireless, CDMA and a 2D barcode reader. It was a piece of piss with Windows CE, but not possible with an IPhone. Others such as developing a device for construction employees, not possible with an IPhone they not rugged enough. How about a device for Divers? No their not waterproof. Or maybe a device for combat or policing? A mobile for blind people? I could go on all day about solution that you can’t use the IPhone for but I think you get the picture. Apple target the middle of the road and that’s it nothing else. It’s a winning formula How could anyone fuxk it up?

Anyway what I’m trying to say is can we keep personal preferences out of the arguement and get back to the facts for want of better words?

Oh and is this the file I can’t play? I can’t say I would notice the difference between 27 and 30 fps but I’ll wait for Fallen to post his video as I might have gotten something wrong with the codec he was talking about.
[Touch HD General] el_lo:
You already admitted you error about the API's, here is another one : when doing full screen 1:1 remote desktop on a 480*800 screens, how can you click on a quicklaunch icon or move a slider

without

a stylus ? It's just the same for playing game ports like transport tycoon or warcraft. Those things are impossible without a stylus, plain and simple... Why limit yourself when you can have both :rolleyes:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
el_lo,

I don't know what error admission you're talking about. Just go back to read what the developers themselves are saying, will you?

Are you really unable to visualise how the clicking can be done without stylus? I'm sure most people with a bit of imagination will know how that can be done easily. It's the same as viewing a webpage. As with a browser, you use your finger to spread it before clicking on a tiny icon. Anyway, even if you do not spread it first, it is still easier to activate the click in iPhone as compared to winmo. This is because there is a much larger area that will respond to the touch in iPhone, as compared to very small area of pixels that must be pressed hard enough in winmo before the clicking is registered. Just an inherent difference between the two types of touch screen technology. This is a reason why I used stylus on my HD but only finger on my iPhone (without necessarily have to zoom in).

As for warcraft, I'm pretty sure nobody wants to play it with a stylus anyway. My sons play WOW and all other popular games on PC as well as iPod. I don't hear them saying that they want a stylus to play WOW on iPhone.