yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
I agree the activity level of this forum (448 - Dream Android Development) ought to merit additional moderation. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those already volunteering their time to keep things tidy -- quite the opposite.

I'm only posting in this thread to voice the opinion that a couple more mods might go a long way to keep some of the more basic questions and chatter relegated to a more appropriate venue (447 - Dream, most likely) and keep the front page ripe with the glorious development meat we all crave.

I'm not saying I'm the chap for the job, but I'd sure be willing to pitch in if consensus agrees there is need. I f5 the site pretty much all day as it is.
[G1 Android Development] sinbot:
I tend to agree but I'm a newb around here still more or less, well to xda anyways. I try to help folks but lose my patience when someone quotes the answer and asks for help. It did give me an ambitious idea though along the lines of a catchall guide for rooting fixing your phone.
[G1 Android Development] tubaking182:
i do not think that the solution is as simple as a quiz since this site is a great place for so many phones(anything made by HTC) and no one quiz would cover everything. i am not saying that i need to be the moderator, but i wouldn't complain if i was. i respect the mods that we have and i think they are doing an excellent job. i don't have a job, and don't go to school, i spent about four hours a day sleeping and tthe rest of my time i am either on Xda or trying to find some new fun thing to do with my phone. i do not really have any one specific person in mind that should or could be a mod, but i think that with just one more person they could make a wold of a difference on this forum. just think about it that's all i'm asking
[G1 Android Development] gospeed.racer:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.

One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it. For example, someone reads in the market that a program requires "root". They decide they are up to try rooting, and look here for the answers. There is a nicely written sticky by Koush that covers it all. That is a nicely written and easy to follow thread. But wait, now they read that Cupcake is out...just look at all the options. Unless they knew they were looking specifically for "JFv1.51 CRB43" how would they know where to start? Set the standards for stickies high (especially the titles!), and maybe it will catch some of the newbies.

Just my $.02
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
So, I've been hanging around and reading this forum since around November last year. That is about 2 full months before I even bought my G1. I love this forum, I can always find the answers I need and I have NEVER once posted a new thread. I use the search function, follow links posted in other forums and just plain old read. That is why I'm probably still listed as a noob. The thing is I have experience in a multitude of forums on a multitude of different topics and items so I know to usually keep my mouth shut unless its a contribution or an emergency. With that said...

The problem is that not everyone knows forum etiquette. Not everyone has been to a forum community and knows how to search. Not everyone knows that search doesn't always work so now its time to scroll threads. Not everyone knows patience like us to take our time to learn. In fact, I think most of the noobs here probably don't know anything about forums, what their about and how they work. All they know is they got a new G1 and SOMEONE said, "hey, you wanna make you phone cooler, go to www.xda-developers.com", or "how did you get that wifi tether thing to work?" So, they show up totally confused and excited to make their g1 experience better. They search a little, read a little and end up completely lost like I did the first time I joined a forum because they really don't know anything but they want to learn. I know we post, "Read this first or get locked", or something like that, but they honestly don't know what to do. This is, in fact a forum, which is defined as a place to meet to discuss things. If we just want to dictate and not discuss, ask questions, answer, and help then why have an open forum?

I will give you this though, there are those that just don't care, know rules, know the proper flow of events and know how to do it in general but still just do what they want. The problem is, though, those are few and far between.

I constantly have to ready, "why is this thread here?", or "mods lock this please", or "don't you know how to use the search function"? Maybe the answer to that question is NO. So why not bee true senior members and answer the question but teach how to use search instead of ridiculing and acting like they are stupid. The fact is new people will ALWAYS show up to forums and will ALWAYS ask questions that you feel are dumb, and ALWAYS start threads without searching or reading so why get mad about it? Answer the question or don't answer the question and blow it off. Why such a big uproar?

Just my .02, sorry if my rant pissed you off and I hope you don't lock me for it.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
This is most certainly the case. I spent a lot of time writing and rewriting my SPL and HTC_CIME sticky posts so the first post would be as structured and easy to understand as possible.

That said, some people are also just lazy, don't know/care about stickies, or just don't have reading skills. Also, this is a hacking community. Information and developments move quickly. The sticky posts often become irrelevant or contain obsolete information pretty quickly. You have to just trust that the owner of the sticky will keep it maintained... but that's not always the case.

The basic problem here is do you promote inclusiveness or would you rather have a small pool of high quality members? If it were up to me, any time someone starts a new thread to ask "how i root" or "my a2sd broken HALP" it would be instaban.
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage

re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.
[G1 Android Development] gospeed.racer:
I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea. It would be up to the OP's to keep them "fresh" though. Give all the developers a place to put their stuff, and keep questions out of it. Just recent, fresh methods and software, and easy to follow instructions. I wish I had something to contribute, as I really think this idea may help.
[G1 Android Development] jashsu:
xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
I agree, it would take more moderation. Someone to step and and handle it and I'm pretty sure the guy that started this thread was already asking for that. I'm just trying to off my opinion on what that new mod or mod's could moderate.

I'm really not trying to rationale the posts, I'm simply trying to provide a different point of view. As I've stated before, anytime there is an open forum for anyone to join there will ALWAYS be those posts. We could make it exclusive, where even I couldn't be part, but what would the point of that be? I thought the point was for people to share information and knowledge? Either way, lets let the dev's and mod's figure out what to do. I just hope I get to stick around.
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
A stickied thread that indexes the [HOW TO] threads works pretty well for this purpose w/o as much overhead
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
i wouldn't worry. I don't think anyone (in their right mind, that is) wants to make this board exclusive to the point that potentially meritorious members can't contribute or get valid questions answered.

after all...most noobs eventually grow out of it if they stick around long enough
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
I agree with many points,

Our forum is cluttered

We need more mods

I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.

Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
[G1 Android Development] andonnguyen:
I believe we should have a troubleshooting subsection, which would automatically filter out all the "I have a brick" type threads from the development forum.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
This was kinda my point. Development should be just that. Direct people looking for how to's or question's to different forums. Instead of just an extra How To, how about a Q n A one also? Then the development forum wont be cluttered and can just be for developers when they are working on stuff.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
This is the good stuff I'm talking about: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3842065&postcount=5

If you dont think its worth replying to, then why bother replying at all? Let people who what to help help!
[G1 Android Development] bootleg16:
i totaly agree we should have a troubleshooting section as a subforum within the dream section because it kinda sucks coming online and seeing a whole bunch of noobs asking redundant questions about something that has been answered multiple times in a sticky.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
So here is what I propose, as a noob! We create 3 new forums, a Troubleshooting forum that anyone can post in. Those interested in answering can. A How To forum that is locked so people cannot post replys or new threads. A Q n A forum that is just open to whatever. Along with that you lock the dev's forum to read only except for the few that should have write access. I'm willing to moderate one of the forums but keep in mind I'm not a dev. Just someone that will read and do what is required for that forum.
[G1 Android Development] tubaking182:
i really think that having 10 stickies at the top is helpful, but a little cluttered. i think it would be easier if we made one thread that was stickied and it conatined all the links to the currently stickied threads as well as a little description of what each link is for. then lock the thread and only update it when more stuff that needs to be stickied comes out. i'm not really complaining about the format, but the first page is like half full of stickies.

also i wish there was a way that when a new thread is started the forum needs to run a search to help eliminate replicated threads. then just throw the "new thread" as a post on an existing one

also i wouldn't mind a troubleshooting forum, i spend most of my time in the dev forum and theme forum but i do like to help people as long as it's a new and real question, not "how to flash new SPL"
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
Sadly I don't think we will have a section that only allows certain people to post to. I haven't seen one here and I don't think we will be the ones to start that. I would love a couple extra forums but so far I haven't even been able to get the one extra I asked for. It really is hard to get a new forum on here.
[G1 Android Development] andonnguyen:
I'm willing to mod too, after mid june, when I'm done taking my grad school entrance tests. lol.
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
I'm pretty sure Jelsoft would pay top dollar to whomever writes those heuristics!

thread merges get complicated quick and often tick people off more than locked / moved threads for whatever reason

EDIT: ...but I really think that's the best approach for the sort of thing your talking about
[G1 Android Development] bootleg16:
whats currently hindering you from creating said sub-forum?
[G1 Android Development] theslam08:
mhm, there has been a topic on this all along. Its an ongoing problem that I feel will never get fixed. Ive done quite a bit of reading and having activity in the site suggestions area, and it seems out of the so called 60 or so mods, there is like only 8 to 10 actually active (or browsing further than their sections).

Your "clutter" problem was stated a little while back. Only got two or three mods to voice opinion on the situation, the 'main' mods it would seem. Check it out:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=508620

Ive given my share of ideas as well, including more mods, better forum design (how-to section, I agree. also getting rid of the useless 'dream' forum). But I get the feeling its extremely hard to get anything 'changed' around here. Quite sad because it will only get worse, aka dominoes.

EDIT: QUOTE: whats currently hindering you from creating said sub-forum? Thats admins only. And seeing how I dont think many are 'active' enough to keep up to date, its the reason why its hard to get it added.
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
There is actually a hack over at VB that searches for similar threads and warns the user to check if it is a double post, this might be helpful enough

OT: does Jelsoft still own VB?

Only Admin's can, I have requested it and when Flar signs on again she will respond (she is Out Of Town right now)
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
forum management is in the admin panel -- most mods don't have access to that

Dream has 5 subforums...amongst the most of any platform. admins are going to require some pretty tough justification to add more, i speculate
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
I can understand that, but I sincerely think that if you create those other 3 forums the heat will be taken off off the dev's forum.

So who do we contact to try an request new forums? Again, I'm willing to mod one of the new forums.
[G1 Android Development] bootleg16:
oh i thought mods could do that.

i dont think ive ever seen the admin around.
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
So true, but some of these don't belong for the dream, like Applications and Games? Well that is for all Android phones. Themes and Wallpapers? Themes would be development, Wallpapers would not even be needed really, maybe one post for all.
[G1 Android Development] duramas:
/signed

Most of the people making these help posts shouldn't be modifying their phones to begin with.

This section is for development, not tech support so there needs to be a newbie/tech help section for that or not here at all.
[G1 Android Development] tubaking182:
thank you, i have been a long time believer in "if you can't undo it...don't do it"
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
HAHA that is funny because I always learn how to undo something before I do it for the first time.
[G1 Android Development] alapapa:
i agree wholeheartedly. anyone who knows anything about android knows that the software stack has very little to do with the device / platform -- a couple of kernel modules, other device drivers, etc.

if things continue on their current path...all the activity will jump to the Sapphire section once they gain market share and so on ad nauseum.

I'm not sure the best way to lay out subforums so they logically make sense. It's hard to come up w/ a framework that doesn't go against the essence of the remainder of this board...but IMO, an Android section seems to be the best choice with a general Android development & hardware specific subforums, etc, etc. below it.
[G1 Android Development] setzer715:
What it looked like is no one cared about issues. They, the mods, mostly just defended themselves and made excuses for what is going on. It was mentioned that there are over 1.5m members and that there is quite a bit of work. Well, then why not have more mods? If the mods are overwhelmed, or really just don't do anything then employ new ones that actually care.

Hey, the can was opened, I'm gonna spill the worms!!!
[G1 Android Development] jmon777:
I agree this phone is going to be dead in a year to 18 months the os is still going to bec going strong there should be a section just for this os. And when I sujested a quiz it was more along the lines of when u should search even it was almost funny. And was in a forum once were you could only post a new thread if u had x numbers of post. Idk how that works though.

But I would be happy to help out other noobs. In q & a section. I think devs would be more inclined to post more if they were not being botherd all the time by pepole being like "how do I install your new rom or spl or what ever and oh do I need root?"
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
As far as I know there are only 3 mods for the Dream section, while yes there are tons of mods for the entire forum, we each try to specialize in one area (usually the one we have a phone for)

We originally modded like normal merging threads and letting people know to search, but then we had an uproar of topics being started some even by the same users, We created a thread in this forum that said if your topic was a repeat we would close or delete with no warning. This seems to be the main problem addressed in the "Moderation in the Dream Forums" topic.

I admit we are overwhelmed, we lock tons of posts and delete others. We try to keep topics self governing but then we get another uproar of people bricking their phones and starting to fight with anyone and everyone (even those that are trying to help)

We try our best to do what we can but we are only 3 people moderating 488 posts (for just this part of the dream forums), in my opinion yes we have failed to keep it clean, but then again I can only do so much in a day before I have to sleep and go back to my cash paying job.
[G1 Android Development] theslam08:
Exactly. I was attacked because I 'defended' them really, by saying its ok they cannot be here all the time. That is the obvious issue at hand, they cant and arent here 24/7. One mod needs to be here 24/7 or 3 for atleast 7-8 hrs a day. OR 5 mods for atleast 4-5 hours a day. You can do the math to continue it.

But like in that topic, its stated blatenly, the admins dont care. I understand neoobs asked for the extra forum like a week or so ago, and he says earlier in this topic he hasnt heard anything back. Active staff is needed for a busy place like this. Like I said I think out of the 70 or so staff 10 are always active, if that. And I hand it to em for what they ARE doing, but more needs done and I feel thats paddling up a creek with a twig.
[G1 Android Development] tubaking182:
i didn't realize we had three mods in the dream section, since i only ever see you and mikey i assummed that was it. who is our other mom(er mod lol)? i love to spend my free time on XDA and yeah occasionally the girll gets mad about it, especially since my new projects, but i think we need to find someone without a life who can be on a lot. and possibly someone from another side of the world, i think that is a big problem, most of our mods(as far as i know) are from USA and it's night time about the same all over the US, if we had someone in australia then they could be on while the US mods sleep and almost take shifts.

personally i am nocternal so when i get on the people on the other side of the world have reign of XDA till the mods get up and delete threads/lock them. i didn't use to report threads, but recently i have gotten to the point that any thread that's a repeat i report without responding with an answer. there is a fine line between a repetetive thread and a genuine question. occasionally you see someone with a question that you remember seeing 6 months ago and haven't seen since so you just give them the answer and move on. it's a pain in the arse to look through 20 pages of search results so some questions are easier to just answer, but some threads are seen 6 times on page one and need to be closed instatly, and if user decides to start another one then a suspension is in order
[G1 Android Development] neoobs:
It looks like we actually have 4 mods (sorry to the 1 I forgot LOL) The list is here http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Forum_Mods in case it ever changes, but here it is
[G1 Android Development] tubaking182:
hmm never seen jdoggraz, or at least neever seen him post in the dream area, but i do recognize pof. but neither of them are incredibly active then cause i usually just see you and mikey trying to clean up everything, which can be hard when you wanna try new things as well as keep things in order. there have been a few times that i have been at my comp and thrown mouse/keyboard becasue there is nothing i can do about the repetetive threads aside from report them, i have been known to PM mikey because of spam users that decide this is a good place to advertise the iphone or some other peice of crap electronics, but usually i try to report and then tell the person to search or just answer and hope it dies so i can get to important updates like the Dude builds
[G1 Android Development] bronxknight28:
I think every new user or any user that starts a topic already solved, should get a pm on how to use the "search" feature on forums. I honestly think people google "unbricking g1" then they find this site, then sign up, then post the ridiculousness. That's just my thoughts =)
[G1 Android Development] DaveShaw:
It's a good idea and has been used successfully on other forums. Back in the day the Kaiser looked like this one, an influx in moderators and the release of the Raph in the states finally calmed things down. However don't expect and new moderator appointments at the moment.

Back to the point, if you or any other senior dream users (I don't have the knowledege :() want's to create a roll up sticky thread, then I would have no problem making it the only sticky (maybe with exceptions for hot topics, such as unbricking and rules threads). It would make more sense to leave the thread open and let users add suggestions. Anything that is not a suggestion, will be deleted, as will successful suggestions.

Just my opinions as a casual vistor to these weird non windows parts ;),

Dave