yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
Camera and flash is never an issue for me. I only use the camera once in a while and maybe use it for capturing my contact's photos. I try not to take photos in pitch dark or when there is not enough lighting, even when you have a flash, the photo is awful. Proper lighting is needed for good photos. Serious photos should be taken with a serious SR camera.

As for radio, I am don't mind using the headsets as an hardwire for the antenna, as long as it has a radio for me to listen to when I want to. The News is pretty important to me.

As comparing to the Universal, there is really no comparison, I think. Correct me if I am wrong, this is only a personal feeling. The camera is better, there are more memory, the CPU is at similar speed but the technology is different. Its like comparing a VIA C7-M ULV Processor 1.6GHz to an Intel Atom 1.33GHz. The Atom is actually faster as it is more refined. So really, speed is only a number. It really needed to be tested. But RAM and ROM does make a difference. So the more the better. I hate it when my device tells me I am running out of memory and it crashes.

In all, I think the TP2 is still a pretty good device to bet on. Of course I can think of lots of other things it could have. Like I would love it to have a Snapdragon CPU. I would love it to have HD video capturing. I would love it to have 16m colours. I would love it to have 16GB internal memory, etc...

All I like is an over-all, balanced little hand-held device and which I think this little one has... Actually... he he he... I really really wished it had a 3.5mm jack. :P
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] beast0898:
Hi I all,

I wasn't stating that I thought the Rhodium was rubbish.

I'm simply stating that I feel HTC are misguided with their designs.

The Rhodium does look very attractive and to be honest I probably will end up buying (purely for the larger screen, better speakers and keyboard) my Raphael is very feature packed but not very functional, the hard keyboard is far from useable and the screen real estate is rather painful after my Uni.

All I am stating is why can't HTC simply take the best of their ideas and current range and roll them all into the so-called "PRo" devices.

Sure we all have different specs that we would like to see as standard but what I fail to understand is why they have to add decent functionality to some devices and then leave it off of others.

For example, Topaz has 5mp lens, yet Rhodium only gets 3mp............. what is the purpose for using the less capable camera............ I'm sure it's no cheaper to manufacture than the 5mp.

It's good to see what others think though,

Thanks all for your points-of-view..........

@ Orb..... :- Glad to see you still floating around too Sir, I have seen you around the Uni and Raphael forums, I just don't have the time to Develop or participate much any more mate. Take care:cool:

Regards,

Beasty
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Mr.Sir:
What do you really think? Of course they won't release a device with everything, how should they be able to make a follow up ey?

Now they gave us the bigger screen and possibility to adjust the angle, but took the flashlight ;)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] beast0898:
Perhaps that is my problem then.;)

At the time of release the Uni had "everything" tilt and twist display, twin cameras, twin speakers, decent sized keyboard and flashlight.

If it had built in GPS and 3.5G I would still be using it as an everyday device.

My point is they got it right at the time with the Uni, why are doing half jobs now:D

As far as releasing a follow up, that too is easy, updated hardware, smaller faster lighter better battery life and MORE functionality.

Cheers,

Beasty:rolleyes:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ajbopp:
Easy, he says. It's a snap :) I think you should just get ahead of the curve now and buy one of these. :)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] codybear:
I fully agree with you on this,

the 3.5 is the only thing I really wish it had.

But I mean it's not like they can build the perfect pocket pc,

everyone's likes/dislikes are completely different.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Lyian:
Well, i think its safe to say, that no matter what device comes out, their will always be something missing.. Some feature someone wanted on it that it doesnt include. Its the way of things. Personally, except for the 3.5mm jack, it pretty much does everything im going to want from it. I just got a 10mp pocket camrea so im not concerned with the built in one. Also, i thought i DID have an FM tuner in it? everything ive read says it does. Even if it doesnt tho, im not concered about it.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Cavey.co.uk:
I have watched videos on my Hermes and Wizard with little problem. Similar files on my Kaiser skipped a bit. I don't think it is quite the big thing people make it out to be (it still works as a phone), but it certainly exists and I'd rather my phone did everything I wanted rather than just most things.

The 3.5mm jack is pointless IMHO. It wouldn't take a headset, so you have to pull the headphones out to answer the phone. The extUSB is not ideal, but at least you don't have to faff, plus it allows for inline controls. I was initially sceptical, but having lived with it I have been converted. I won't repeat myself, but see here.

And it just occured to me why they have gone with the 3Mp camera. If the pixel size/density is the same in both and the lens is the same size, the physical size of the CCD will be larger in the 5Mp camera, therefore requiring either a stronger lens (resulting in fish eye pictures) or the lens to be further from the CCD. This would make it impractical (or maybe uneconomical) to put a larger CCD in a phone with keyboard as it is slimmer (or at least the keyboard section is slimmer) than a non-keyboard model.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] orb3000:
Yes, and thank to you and Laurentius I´m now adicted to this great community:D

I remember the old days on Universal with you guys

Really miss you!

Completly agree with Beasty!!

Why in 2005 they launched a perfect device: Universal

What happened on 2008/2009??

I´m sure they noticed it´s better to make not perfect devices as everybody will change it every year, if they continue making perfect ones buisness would not be great.

But I can see now TP2 like a good but not perfect option, before thre was nothing...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] DavidMc0:
You can have a 3.5mm socket that takes a headset + 3.5 adaptor, or any 3.5mm plug in the same socket. My X1 has this.

I can see why you'd say it's pointless, as often I use the adaptor (to accept calls with my headphones in), so it could just as well be extUSB. However, it's useful to have the socket for those occasions you need it and don't have the adaptor on you.

Also, I've found 3.5mm sockets unreliable on phones. I had an HD for about 2 weeks and the 3.5mm socket broke (had to send it back for repair), and the same happened after a couple of weeks with my X1. I hope it doesn't happen again, as they took over 2 weeks to repair it!

If all 3.5mm sockets are as badly built as the X1 and HDs ones, I'd rather not have them (unless I renew my T-mobile contract that gave next day swap out replacements!).
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] fortunz:
Yup, personally I'd just as soon it had no camera at all. I'm stuck paying for and carrying a hunk of tech I don't really want. But the world seems to be against me on the utility of camera phones.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] Lyian:
the iPhones 3.5mm socket seems to be holding up. I haven't heard any complaints about it, and as far as im aware, it accepts/uses headsets.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
Never had any problems with my HD's 3.5mm socket.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] kc1:
Why did they have to make it look like an an old i-phone? Isn't the design world past that now?

And why does it have to be bigger than it's predecessor without much usable difference in specification?
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] pidsw:
I love the bigger screen on the touch HD. The Rhodium's screen side is a real plus to me.

3.x Mp to 4.9Mp is not that big of a deal. As mentioned earlier, what really matters is the quality of the images that it takes. I usually filter mine down to a usuable size anyway, and when I take 3mp pictures they don't seem to have less detail than the 5mp when filtered to something usable.

It is true that 5mp is better for printing, but then you have to filter it without downsampling.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] DavidMc0:
I agree - that stupid mirror finished shiny edge to it really annoys me... could have been so sleek!

I think the speakerphone stuff probably makes it a fair bit bigger than touch pro. It's about the same size as a Kaiser though, or an X1 (just wider), so should be pocketable.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ajbopp:
Mirror finish does not = sleek? There's a concept to boggle the mind! However, I prefer the more art-deco look and feel of brushed metal, myself. And it doesn't show fingerprints as well.

Although the trim is a mirror finish, the surfaces in general appear to be matte.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] fortunz:
I don't know what art-deco means, but I do like brushed metal and I don't like having to mop up fingerprints all the time.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
Can't agree more. I HATE fingerprints.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] orb3000:
Me too.

Unless device is used by a high level buisness man, then is very usefull
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] kc1:
It's not so much the material that irritates me but the apple look & feel. Remember when everything had to be translucent blue & white just because of the i-mac?

I'm just disappointed in HTC.

I have a Touch Pro & before that 610 & SP5 & my wife has a diamond 2, but I won't be buying this TP2 because I don't want the experience of all those apple fan boys saying

- "oh you got a i-phone clone..?" & me having to say

- "er no, it's better than an i-phone" & then hearing back

- "yeah right, then why did they make it look like a poor imitation..?"

If were a usable upgrade over the TP I might put up with that, but there's apparently no meaningful new function - it's just bigger and rounder and as one of those "businessmen" referred to above, the speaker phone holds no value - we all have conference calling & I can't see us wanting to share a business conversation with everybody in the airport lounge.

I seriously think that htc misfired on this product. it's (for me) definitely a model to skip.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
I have to disagree with you mate. First of all I really don't think it looks anything like an iPhone. Yes it is round but there aren't many designs for a bar phone is there. All the new touch phones have similar in features and looks. It's just a big screen with a few slots and buttons here and there.

It is a lot better than the iPhone 3G. You don't have to tell anyone, you know it's better.

1. It's got a higher resolution

2. It's got a better camera (although not the best)

3. It's definitely has a better set of speakers

4. It's got a full 5 row of QWERTY keyboard

5. It's got more RAM

6. It's CPU is faster

7. It can multi-task

8. You can take videos

9. You can buy and change batteries

10. Tilt-screen

etc etc...

We may sit here and talk for ages over this matter. iPhone lovers and WM users can never see eye to eye on this.

So apart from you saying it's round and silvery makes it looks like an iPhone, nothing else is the same. The design is actually quite elegant and very business orientated. The speakers are good very conferencing but it will also be great for watching movies and with the large screen and tilt feature, you can't get better than that at the moment (the only rival is the N97).

If you already own a TP, the only reason for you to upgrade is a better screen, better integrations with TF3D, better keyboard, tilt screen, better speakers and a free upgrade to 6.5.

Sorry for ratting on a bit. Just my point of view.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] beast0898:
Good points, you've almost convinced me to upgrade from Raphael:D

Cheers,

Beasty
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
You know want to! ;) You just need that little push... :D
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] fortunz:
Srsly? You agree it's better but you're afraid the other boys and girls will tease you because of some shiny trim?

Don't get me wrong, I get the point about being annoyed by trendiness, but for me, function beats form any day of the week. Function definitely trumps schoolyard taunts.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ratchetjaw:
All good points i think the Acer M900 is one to watch. I have one pre-ordered. I think it may be a dark horse amongst these phones
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] hazeline:
Basically what i think is that Rhodium is just a business phone as it focuses on the conference call technology, it is not like Sony Erricson Idou which has a whopping 12 megapixel. The size of the camera picture just keeps increasing year by year however about its sharpness it loses to a campact camera which is only 5 megapixel.

Plus if there is a phone which is packed with all good features, it would be super unafforable and HTC only need to produce one phone per year. Different people have different needs and taste.:)
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
Yeah, I have also made my point in the thread about the M900. I think 128MB RAM may just not be enough for today's smartphones. Anyway, I think we will leave that debate to that thread.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] l3v5y:
The Rhodium is a business device, as you say, hence the "Straight Talk" stuff, the awesome keyboard, and the lower resolution camera. How many businesses are there that buy a phone for having a 5mp camera? If they're the kind of business that need cameras, they'll buy cameras!
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] orb3000:
I´m completly agree

If anybody want´s a nice camera buy a Cannon or Nikon

Cell phones cameras will never be as good as real cameras (At least in some years...)

I have never used my camera and really don´t care about that

Just my opinion...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] galaxys:
for purchasing a PPC, the camera is the lowest priority for me :cool:
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] sino8r:
Doesn't picture quality more relate with the lens quality? The amount of MP just means slightly bigger pictures but are mostly grainer (unless it's a $250+ camera) It could be true that a 3.2 takes better pictures than a 5 MP camera. Besides, who actually saves and prints out pics from their cell? Mainly we just save them to the phone and send the better ones to our pc/mac... I see the point though, with a higher end smartphone doesn't need to have a medium quality camera/video when some dumb phones have a camera comparable to decent standalone camera. Oh well, like some have already said... the best smartphone is always lacking one little detail that another has. There is no perfect pocket pc (or any smartphone/cell phone) out there.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ajbopp:
I don't know that I'd make too much of a point about screen resolution. Yes, it's 480x800 compared to iPhone's 320x480 or whatever, but resolution is generally stated in terms of Width x Height x Color Depth, and I haven't heard that TP2 is going to have 16 mil colors. Granted, I personally prefer the larger screen size over the increased color depth, but for some some the color depth is a make or break deal.

In any case, the screen resolution could not be said to be definitively "better" as long as it has only 65K color depth.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] l3v5y:
Where have you got those two figures from? Also, most manufacturers quote a colour depth way above the effective colour depth of the panel, so it can be fairly meaningless...
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ajbopp:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchpro2/specification.html
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] l3v5y:
I can't see any colour info on either of those.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ajbopp:
Sorry...didn't realize that was the figure you were asking about :D

You are correct that I misstated about the 16 mil. Don't know where that came from, but it still has 4 times as much color depth as the TP2.

http://tinyurl.com/pw4ob8

http://tinyurl.com/osc3zj
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post that the down side is the colour depth. I don't disagree but I would say that 3.6 with the 800x480 is still better than HVGA (480x320). Stuff appearing on the screen will be sharper as the pixels are more compact. Just like the 3.2in screen on a diamond will look better as everything is more refined. But personally I think 3.2 is too small as I am used to my 3.8 HD.

Also not many people can tell the difference in the colour depths of 65k and 16 million colours but most people can tell if an image is sharper as larger screens gets more pixellated as it gets larger.

Resolution is not calculated by physical width and height. It is actually measured in pixels. The smaller the pixel the better and finer the screen.

I think, I am not sure, that WM has problems supporting millions of colours. That is why all WM phones only have thousands of colours. Hopefully WM7 will be better support of higher colour depths.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] ajbopp:
Good points, and I think you are correct about WinMo's capabilities.

Is it true about the pixel size? I'd always thought it was the space between pixels that mattered, a subtle but potentially important difference.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
Yes, screen resolution is always better with smaller pixels. If you can squeeze as many pixels in an inch the better. Wikipedia has a very good explanation of screen resolutions. I had to go search to back up my post.

Like TVs, remember we the good old non HD TV days. The best size TVs are around 30in, any bigger, you get pixellated images. That is because the numbers of pixels has not changed but only the physical size of the TV. So big TV's look ****. So that is why they have projector TV for those that like large TVs. Because the pixels are not so defined on those TVs and it made the images more smoother. The trade off is a smudgy image.

Even now, 1080p TV will look great until it reaches a certain size. More details in a smaller space is always better.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] fastrat350:
man no flashlight...............gripe im not getting the touch pro 2, i mean what will i do now when i wrench under the car or need to look where i walk.................HA i mean the flashlight is a nice lil add-on but when i got my mogul i had no clue about the camera, and it became useful and so when i got my touch pro i didnt care if the camera came along and when i picked it up I was glad it was there. I will upgrade to the touch for the sole purpose of bigger screen, keyboard, as long as everything works like designed. As for the speakerphone, im really interested how that will perform, though it is designed as a "business" phone, i use speakerphone alot when talking to my girlfriend and other girls, cuz well they blab too much for me burn my ears with phone, so the speakerphone would be the feature for me. and as long as the battery last longer, even happier. As for the 3.2mp camera, im impressed with its clarity, the bigger screen i think would help in panorama pictures in order to fine tune alignment
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] kc1:
Yeah, teasing or otherwise is not really the point. I put it that way to highlight the misperception that some potential buyers may have. It's really lame naive / marketing of HTC to so obviously ape an iPhone when the spec is far superior. It's a misfire/ backward step, because people will think it's a cheap bandwagon imitation when in fact it's better than an iPhone.

My main gripe however is that it's not sufficient of an upgrade in terms of features to justify the larger size and old-fashioned (iPhones are so 2007) visual design.

I know cocoaju's list was in relation to comparison to apple's products, but using it as a checklist vs TP...

1. It's got a higher resolution

- sure, fine, but but its not dramatic

2. It's got a better camera (although not the best)

- All phone cameras suck in comparison to proper cameras (even the compact ones). It started through encouragement by the carriers facing declining voice revenues as just a way to get data traffic & hasn't improved yet to the point that anyone taking proper photos would seriously consider it. Sure this one is an improvement over the last, but as a business user (which somebody said this is aimed at) I still cant find any reason to use it & would happily sacrifice it for a smaller, lighter device.

3. It's definitely has a better set of speakers

- Again - useful for what? Most business users needing to make conference calls have conferencing call phones in offices, etc. or an dial-in system; have hand-free car kits; and wouldn't want to use speaker phones in a public place (airport lounge etc.). Like laptop speakers, although 'better' than previous speakers they'll still be crappy compared to headphones or using the TV out cable to plug them into a hotel / stereo (as I do with my TP)

4. It's got a full 5 row of QWERTY keyboard

- Same as TP

<...>

10. Tilt-screen

- Hmm, yes - my TP does fall when unfolded on a desk...so I er... hold it in my hands.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] cocoaju:
As you said, the comparison was made with the current iPhone 3G. But I am sure this will be invalid when the TP2 comes out as there will be a 2009 iPhone coming out not long after. I am also sure that HTC will come out to answer that as well.

I know there are not many differences with TP and TP2. Bigger screen is big step forward. I am so use to the 3.8in screen, I can't go back to the small 2.8in screens anymore. The new TP2 is 0.8in larger and 200 pixels more. There must some advantage in that. The good thing is I can use my finger to write on the screen. Can't do that with my p3600i.

The tilt screen is good for watching movies too and speakers are pretty good for that too. I think I have been through this a few times, I don't think I will go through it again.

I think TP2 is really for new users and not aimed at TP owners.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] fortunz:
That's true. I have a Razr2 right now that I supplement with a Palm TX. I'm one of the last holdouts on convergence. I do a

lot

of reading on my 4" screen, and one of the reasons I didn't buy the TP1, although I looked at it for a long while, was the screen size. If I had bought it already, it would tough to justify an upgrade to a TP2.
[Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General] bensmiller:
Reading through this post I only saw one person that had the right idea about the camera, but i think there may be alittle more to it than just mp size. If the have a similar size ccd then the 3 mp is actually going to perform better than the 5mp camera because when you squeeze more pixel onto the chip you actually degrade picture quality its been proven that 3 to 4mp is the ideal pixel size for camera ccd's of that size so you get a better quality picture that has a smaller bit size which prolly helps when your sending them from the phone to lets say your buisnes email. So I think I will take the better 3mp camera.
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] sniper0007:
hi every one. i am a new member in this form and need help on unlocking O2 XDA.

i will really appreciate your help

thanks in advance
[Upgrading, Modifying and Unlocking] Rudegar:
depend on which xda you got

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/

find it here and read it's wiki pages