yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ikovac:
1.3 version works well on my Blackstone with the official HTC EU ROM. No problems installing or running. Frequencies change properly. BUT I don't see any improvement in Battery Log.

Some observations:

GOOD:

19 MHz for suspend works, but sometimes it wakes slowly on a call. 82 MHz is good though. So the only thing I would expect it to properly do is to keep suspend freq very low (19 or 61 or 82) and use very little current while in suspend. I need a couple of days to see if that works.

BAD:

The minimum current consuption without this software on HTC Touch HD is 69 mA.

Now with this software minimum is still 69 mA with backlight off no matter what frequency I set. That is strange since my device is slower meaning underclocking works, but for some reason the minimum power consuption stays exactly the same if device is idle and with backlight off.

Batt Log shows that while idling with backlight on and 256MHz proc it uses 100mA while 528MHz proc uses 96mA! Now that is strange. Idling at 82MHz proc uses 177 mA in same conditions! That is even worse! SLOWER proc and device using MORE power!

Even worse - the same thing happens when the cpu is actually doing something:

While playing MP3 in the background (album in manila3d)

528MHz uses 250 mA with backlight on and 223 mA with backlight off.

256MHz uses 254 mA with backlight on and 225 mA with backlight off.

82 MHz uses 267 mA with backlight on and 230 mA with backlight off.

61 MHz uses 276 mA with backlight on and 240 mA with backlight off.

Conclusion:

I have a long time experience with undervolting of Intel laptop CPUs and found many similarities between the voltage/speed properties and settings in Speedstep and in Nuedynamicclock Qualcomm settings but the result with HTC touch HD underclocking is just not right.

Remember Battery logger shows AVERAGE consuption by default. Could that mean that slower CPU actually is on average more heavily loaded (spends more time actually doing something) and thus on AVERAGE uses more current since the sheer powering to the loaded cpu over longer time uses some extra current too? On the other hand the fast CPU quickly does the calc and then idles or is lightly loaded and on average spends less current/power over time?

This software definitely has a great potential (especially undervolting can bring same speed at lower power consuption and heat at cost of some instability) and I am very grateful to the developer but somehow on my device it misses the point even if it looks as it is working properly. Perhaps I need more time testing (to see the actual battery level after a day) or maybe Battery Logger simply isn't accurate? Please consider that SUSPEND underclocking could actually save some power.

Anyways I am happy that Qualcomm CPU can be controlled and I will continue to test this software despite the initial strange results. If SUSPEND underclocking saves power it is already worth installing. Leave 528MHz and turn on Suspend underclocking to 82, 61 or whatever you feel fast enough for answering a call (I have it at 19MHz).

Cheers,

Ivan
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] thanosc:
@ikovac very nice and strange findings.

It sounds to me that the software giving you the ma reading is not working properly cause of the underclocking.

underclocking uses more power?

this is like running something to make the cpu slower in that case yes biger consumption is normal.

Arty out...
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ikovac:
Yep! My thoughts exactly! And based on my (long) previous experience with Intel Xscale and Intel mobile CPUs I have the same feeling that something is really odd. But numbers don't lie. Don't they?

Ivan
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] oqaab:
So... can we have this utility for HTC Universal? Would be very nice.

The one currently available is not accomplishing the job, installed correctly although. But the processor remains unidentified. Tomal stated it can harm hardware of Uni. And I believe him.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] no2chem:
Thanks for your analysis. I actually have no idea what the actual effect of underclocking the ARM11 is; but your hypothesis is definitely one we should put to further testing.

I recall when SSDs first came out, people complained that they actually had worse battery performance. But it turned out that the CPU was doing more work because the SSD was giving it more data. So maybe we have a similar case here. Unfortunately since we don't have the MSM datasheets, we have no idea how this system really works.

Another question that needs to be brought to light is how accurate the battery current sensor is... perhaps it is not accurate to +/- 10mA?

Here is what I think is the strongest evidence the underclocking does something- the G1. The G1 has the same processor as our phones, but android runs the core at 384MHz. The G1 can run at 528MHz as well, and people who have run the G1 at 528 MHz report (slightly) increased power consumption. I would imagine the reason the official rom for the device ships at 384MHz is for battery savings.

I think maybe we need to figure out how to measure real current draw (maybe with a 1ohm resistor and a multimeter between the battery).
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
Great job no2chem, although real value is rather limited by the issues ikovac brought up.

I'm sure you have fully mastered MSM7xxx PMIC already, but this datasheet may still prove handy...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=454842

Even if it's not accurate, the results are pretty consistent, Blackstone never really goes below 68-69 mA, regardless of the clock and core voltage. Constant CPU utilization at around 20% causes consumption to increase to 110-120 mA. I haven't tried stressing CPU at higher percentage, for example 90%, but I suspect consumption will increase yet more at least for another 50 mA.

Newer devices, such as blackstone run happily without a battery, if the battery is removed, I wonder if consumption can be measured from the USB host side for comparison. Apparently there will be no charge current in this case, the device should only consume as much as it needs to run.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Jackuuuuu:
no2chem,

Do I need to leave the "Processor" program running/open? Can it run in the background? Because when it is running, I can't access to my Today screen (Just WM Today, not using TF3D).

Thanks,
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
Correction, I just tried it and OS won't boot without battery, only SPL can be run this way... I guess this renders the approach I have suggested useless for power consumption measurements when OS needs to be running.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Keep in mind the mA and mV reported dont necessarily hold any relevance to whats actually being used. When testing, do a proper full load (from charger, not usb) to empty test.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] no2chem:
thanks for the datasheet links stepw, ive been dying to get those. .. geez this opens a new world of stuff to me

anyway, OS poweroff is controlled by kernel and battery driver, shouldn't be too hard to patch that =p
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] leobox1:
pls keep it coming.. i will like to know the results of your good test.

BTW thanks , i finally installed.. cab works

BUG??

Apparently i found a bug? please dont flame if not.

When using album to watch video, idle , backlight still kicks in.

I noticed this when my video FPS dropped alot after a few secs.

Although power off will not work when you are watching Album video, the profile DOES kick in, almost halting the video :P
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
:OOOOO

you got the PMIC datasheet as well?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ikovac:
@leobox

Thanks! New observations:

Over night with Memory cleaner kicking in at 4:30 (scheduled) my battery went down from 41% to 35% with 19MHz setting at suspend. So I guess it isn't so good is it?

@no2chem

I am glad I helped. I think that CPU load (work actually done) affects the current draw much more than just the frequency alone. So lower freq at 100% load uses more current than higher freq at 10%. In Intel Speedstep technology voltage actually affects the power consuption a lot - lower voltage cools the CPU considerably meaning less power is used. Mere 0.2V voltage drop at the same multiplier on Core2Duo can lower the CPU temperature at 100% load between 10 and 15 degrees C! That is much less heat/power. Can this analogy be used on Qualcomm or Intel Xscale somehow? So we would actually have the stock frequency at let's say 1,1V and lower frequencies at even lower voltages like 0.9V, 0.7V etc...? Stability is affected by undervolting btw...but today's CPUs can usually handle reasonable lower voltages without any stability issues...

Cheers,

Ivan
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ikovac:
Well I wouldn't know for sure since I have never tested the power consuption at the default speeds, but 41% at 1:30 and 35% at 6:30 (yeah I slept only 5 hours last night) at 19 MHz while suspended seems a lot to me. I checked and during that time my HD connected 2 times to check mails (3G) and did the Level 3 - Fundamental Purge in cleanRAM at 4:35. I checked and these 3 events mean around 3.5 minutes of activity. Is 6% battery ok for 5 hours in suspend at 19 MHz with 3.5 minutes of activity at 528 MHz?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
Consumption multiplied by time does add up to capacity with 1-2% deviation when charging with AC adapter, so at least charge current and voltage seem to be accurately measured. See attached charts...

More on consumption and measurements accuracy here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3579834&postcount=14
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Be that as it may - and I haven't tested this on all of my devices - the mA values seems to follow a certain formula depending on wether components are on or off, with min's and max's. There was a very obvious discrepancy between power reportedly used and the speed of battery drain. Perhaps they fixed this in newer revisions or whatever, but since I last tested this about a year ago on my Kaiser I've not trusted reported mA/mV values.

To illustrate (the numbers are fiction, I did not save these results), device would be 100mA, Wi-Fi on would be 126. Wi-Fi on with full speed transfer would still be 126mA but the battery % would go down like a ****. Same test with 3G keep-alive vs full-speed 3.6mbps transfer. At least on the Kaiser I tested on the numbers seemed more or less fabricated based on known states, instead of actual measurements. Another big give away was the repeat of specific mA values in unexpected circumstances.

Also my experience with other sensor values (like temperature) has told me not to trust what is reported. Full charge to full discharge, that's the only way to be sure IMHO. But feel free to disagree.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
I bet many people were looking for the datasheet, so it's great it has finally surfaced, credits go to the contributor in that other thread though.

I was hoping to powerup and start OS without the battery, but either kernel won't start this way or SPL won't load it without a battery...
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
That's why I'm referring to charge current/voltage only. Discharge measurements are a lot less consistent (see that other thread I have refrenced for a discharge curve sample from my Blackstone) and battery % never correlates well with amperage and especially voltage. Another factor contributing to low accuracy is polling frequency, PMIC is only interrogated every X seconds, whereas the charge/discharge process is continuous, so smaller fluctuations are averaged. Nevertheless, I believe that the issue is more with battery % calculation formula than with accuracy of measurements though.

Sorry for offtopic, no2chem :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
Nope, I guess it's even more rare then MSM user guide.

There's some stuff re: PM architecture in one of those datasheets though.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] gmanfuzing:
im sorry , but i don't understand exactly what this tool does. yes i have read the thread full and yes i checked and read the website. Please Help !!!! thanks :]
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ikovac:
There is a CPU in your device that works at certain frequency. For example in Touch HD it is 528MHz. This tool can lower this frequency in certain occassions (256 MHz after 5 secs of idling for example or even 19 MHz in suspended state). Lower frequency means slower device and should use less battery. Every frequency uses different lower voltage meaning CPU is additionally cooler and uses less power.

So idea is to keep the device as slow as possible when you don't need it and have it at full speed when you need it or it has to do something. Similar to Speedstep in Intel based laptops for example.

I hope this helps a bit...

Ivan
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] DaBountyHunter:
I'm hoping the locking up issues can be resolved as of now I've decided not to use this app as it's locked up my Touch Diamond 2 I've had to resort to a hard reset to get it working again. Guess this was by running the cpu at 528Mhz @ Level0. Twice now so not going to risk it :(
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] leobox1:
messing with voltage is bad right?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] DaBountyHunter:
Possibly I've found running 384Mhz @ Level 0 is fine but if you set 528Mhz @ Level 0 it can work and at other times just causes the whole handset to crash (Touch Diamond 2) no soft reset can save you from almost bricking the device you need to hard reset it.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] no2chem:
I got OS to work without battery.. but I think SPL won't start CE unless battery is present...
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stepw:
You are unstoppable...

So how does consumption look like in your case?

Any improvement with core clock or voltage change?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] leobox1:
any idea what does AUTO does?

because of the album "bug", i do not set idle and backlight...

hence suspend is 128mhz and auto... but frankly not noticing any increase in batt.. is setting the voltage the key ?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] mccune:
YouTube stutters on my TouchHD when I set it to battery saving. Already tried changing the profile. Used v1.3. Back to v1.0 for now.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] mjaxa:
How is the "loader" feature working? Con you provide some info about it? I would prefer to keep my navigation running at full proc speed, but I can't find a way to do it. SO farm when I want to create a loader it doesn't save it anywhere.

Any help how to exclude certain applications?

Thanx!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] trinode:
Is it possible to monitor CPU usage and regulates CPU according to that?

EG:- if CPU use below 50% drop a level, if CPU usage above 75% raise a level?

That would be brilliant!

- Anthony
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] RoadK1LL:
Really great work..but..will be soon any version that support ks20 ? :S
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] mjaxa:
Sooo, any hints how to exclude certain applications? I noticed that navigation is "stuttering" when clock speed is reduced (logically), so I would like to exclude this from the speed reduction.

I understand that it can be done through "loader" function, but how?

Thanks in advance.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] scar45:
I have just installed v1.3 on my Xperia Stock R1A ROM, which also has the Ethermind 1% battery increments driver. I have the following profile setup in nueDynamicClock for both AC and Battery:

- 528 / Auto (boot)

- 256 / Auto (idle after 5s)

- Disabled (on backlight)

- 19 / Auto (standby)

Unfortunately, I haven't really noticed a good savings in battery power. For example, as a quick test after installing last night, I had 75% power. When I woke up 7 hours later, I had 60% remaining. These results seem to be the same as when I did not have nueDynamicClock installed, and I also would have expected them to be better.

A little bit about my device and the processes it runs:

- FlexMail is set to IDLE (push) e-mail

- MortScript runs every 2 mins and checks if Bluetooth is on, and if a couple of apps are running. It also does some trickery to monitor the battery status, and if it is below 80%, it will kill FlexMail so that my battery lasts longer while not needing IDLE or PUSH e-mail.

- MortScript running every time device wakes up, and this is for the S2U2 notiweather.mscr script

- Another MortScript process running which is my oblaveyon(?) random ringtone changer

Other than that, there are no other 'timed' processes aside from the built in WinCE notifications (timer events).

Could the processes that I am running above interfere with the way that nueDynamicClock is trying to change my CPU speed? I have read somewhere else in this thread (or another), that if the CPU is downclocked, it could consume more battery because it will take longer to complete the scheduled tasks that it runs (such as my MortScripts and FlexMail above).

I suppose I will have to do more investigation and testing, but I do know that nueDynamicClock v1.3 is working for me, as running CorePlayer, playing an MP3, then powering off the phone (standby) via the power button causes the MP3 playing to severely lag (which is good because it means that the CPU is working @ 19mhz, just barely enough to play music with 5 second gaps between the 1 second of actual music).

Just looking for more insight on this, and if anyone else out there is using it on a stock X1 R1A ROM with Ethermind's 1% battery driver, or if anyone has a similar MortScript setup that runs commands every 2 mins or so.

Otherwise I think it's a great app, and I'm looking forward to saving much more battery with it!

Thanks no2chem!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] benko286:
ok guys installed app 1.3,usimg it few days now and what i saw is:

first what i need to say that app is working,so tried to watch video @528mhz,256mhz and 128mhz, huge different in framerates..and @128mhz video lagged alot..

also tried run cpu@528mhz@level5voltage and it was unstable(diamond freezed) so app works

BUT if you put any voltage level from 0-5 voltage will be same(1.1v)

and one question to author of these program,will we have option for overclocking in the future builds, i think that more mhz will boost a lot wm....
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] scar45:
Hey guys,

Just a quick update in regards to my experience with NueDynamicClock on my Xperia X1. I continued to have poor battery life, and I figured out why. FlexMail was not being closed by my MortScript, and this was causing Push E-mail to constantly run, draining my battery. I figured out that MortScript was having problems running while in standby with the CPU set to 19mhz. Therefore, it wasn't closing FlexMail, and power was being consumed heavily.

I have since changed my Standby CPU speed to 61.44mhz, and this seems to have resolved the problem. MortScript is properly closing FlexMail, and is able to run the other timed events that I've scripted. I guess 19mhz was just too low, and it was missing its calls.

I will continue to test more, but I suggest if you've been experiencing the same issue as me, that you turn Standby CPU from 19mhz (if you had it set at that speed) back up to 61mhz.

I'll report back with any other findings, otherwise I must say again that this is a GREAT application (it's even a service!) that I don't want to go on without using.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Phantom1275:
I can't save settings in nuedynamicclock. When I try it, services.exe crashes.

I am using version 1.3, I'll give 1.2 a try.

EDIT: never mind, I got it working. Used the cab instead of .exe.

BTW, some interesting info. I'm testing a power savings profile, at first I put these values:

- 528mhz for boot and default;

- 384mhz for system idle after 10000 ms;

- On backlight off, 256mhz;

- On suspend (standby), 112,88mhz.

I got some problems in reproducing music via bluetooth stereo headset. On suspend mode (standby), there are some small skips (about half a second). Those skips are periodic, they keep coming from 10 to 10 seconds.

I supose that 112,88mhz is too little processing for music streaming via bluetooth, so I changed suspend value to 256mhz. Now it's working as usual.

I'm trying these values for today, from a full charge. Tonight I'll put some results here.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Phantom1275:
Just found another bug.

When the power key is long pressed to turn off the Diamond, clock goes up to down, starting from 528mhz, passing by all frequencies (384, 256, 112mhz, 64mhz) and then goes up again to 528mhz. Sometimes it even oscilates between those clocks.

The problem is that when the "yes" key is pressed on the dialog to turn off the device and the clock is less than 384mhz, the Diamond will freeze before it can finish turning off.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] leobox1:
no more updates??
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] rob111:
Create loader for pocket player

Can someone please give me a link to instructions on how to set up the loader. I want to set up pocket player to use a different profile when it starts as it needs a high clock speed for suspend. I have searched but found nothing, even the the nuerom website has no info. :(

Mondilv gives a hint, in his Nataly rom thread, on how to set it up for coreplayer. I need it explaining as I don't see how you enter this into the create loader screen. :confused:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] rob111:
Loader instructions

Found this which has enabled me to get it working :) - thanks purplekawasaki. I still don't see where Mondilv gets his command line from though.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] rob111:
Nuedynamicclock Profile Loader not Working

Now that I have got the loader configured it is not working correctly. :(

I am using the Nataly 2.6.0 rom which has nuedynamicclock built in which may be causing the problem as someone else has reported the same bug. If anyone can shed some light on this it would be appreciated. Here are the posts from the Nataly rom thread -
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Daemos:
Is there anyway for this to clock the cpu dynamically depending on the load of the cpu? So at low loads it downclocks, then as loads gets higher (say at 85-90%) it automatically keeps increasing the frequency (sorta like rmclock and performance on demand for pcs) or does it already do this?

Thanks!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] leobox1:
it doesnt but it will be good.. wonder where the dev is... must be busy
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] anbo1306:
Great program.

Do I need to start the program manually and must it be running in the background?

I cannot find it in this thread.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mamamam:
it runs in the background (service)

and you can see it with a better taskmanager
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] myxor:
It always shows 0.00 Mhz, 1.1 Volts and under active profile only some squares.

I am using WM 6.5.

What to do?

Device: Diamond DIAM100

EDIT:

A reinstallation solved the problem for me!