yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] Cret:
Ok folks - here goes!

Before you read this please bear in mind this is someone else's info and I'm sure it misses out on a lot of points.

For instance while I obviously prefer my HD to the iPhone, there's no denying the UI on iPhone is great, but this is a difficult thing to 'measure' and therefore prove as such, even though most people know this is a great thing about the iPhone.

As someone else has mentioned if the iPhone did exactly what I want, I'd be happy to buy one but until it does, and having used both for me, the HD is the superior option. I have no 'allegiance' to winmo as it were and will happily jump ship for the right product. This is all obviously subjective, and ultimately doesn't matter anyway. They're 2 very different products and the HD suits me because I like to mess about with stuff.

The bottom line is if you like what you have that's all that matters - who cares if product A is better than product B!! The fact there are differences is a good thing and the fact that features get 'copied' is good too because it means the best features end up getting combined in one product somewhere down the line.

So don't shoot me down for posting this, and feel free to add/correct stuff to make it more accurate if you like the idea of 'point scoring'! :D
[Touch HD General] Cret:
Doh - can't attach because of restrictions sorry. :(

I'll try to post up the content one way or another for what it's worth.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Still spreading the same BS ha steve. give it up man you know already whos king so retire already
[Touch HD General] Matterhorn:
Ok, the iPhone is good for some people and the HD is better for others, this is obvious, so trying to prove which one is better is futile.

Eagle, you say that you don't carry around the HD with you, but leave it in the car. Don't you ever have to look up locations when you are out of your car? I know, Google maps...uses data connections and when roaming this is expensive. You carry the HD with you don't you :-) How many people can justify or afford to buy 2 very expensive phones?

These positive points for the HD are not really disputable from my point of view:

*IGO8 and TomTom navigation

*Better battery life

*Better phone connections

*Changeable microSD

*Changeable Battery

*"Mulit Tasking" and "copy and paste" works (ok, jailbrake the iPhone, but not everyone wants to do that and it makes life complicated when apple forces you to do an update, which they do...very annoying.

On the other hand, functionality wise, what can the iPhone do that the HD can't do? I said black and white functionality, not user interface :-)

Everyone that I talk to that has an iPhone has the drop call problem frequently, these are people that haven't jail broken or unlocked their phones. It hardly ever happens when talking to other phone users with me, it's mostly iPhone people, this thing is a phone for crying out loud, dropping calls for no reason is not a minor issue! I always call them back and say "Are you having an iPhone moment?" :-)

Nav has to be a speaking app, that means I don't want to look at it while driving. Google maps won't do. Data connections when traveling out of your country is prohibitively expensive.

Wifi on the HD is good and the power consumption can be reduced substantially by just changing the setting to "good" instead of "best". In the "best" wifi mode, the radio is on full power all the time and that is the reason for the warm battery. Unless you have a very weak signal, there is no reason to use the "best" wifi position. I've found that with a descent signal, the throughput is the same in the "good" position while allowing the radio to throttle back when you are just reading and not downloading.

For the iPhone die hards, there is no amount of black and white statistics or features that will change their minds...is there?
[Touch HD General] Matterhorn:
Ok EagleSteve, we agree to disagree :-)

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
i love this debate!!

They are 2 great devices and the strengths of each are also to some degree their weeknesses.

Iphones biggest problem is Itunes and file formats (such a pain in the arse, since i got an ipod my neatly arrange music collection has been raped by the virus that is itunes).

Even as a hard core WinMO head you can't ignore the style and usability of the Iphone.

It has got a problem though as all the self styled trendies have got them making it the least trendy / cool device on the market, this is a slope i feel the iphone will struggle not to slip down. Truethfully i would rather be seen with a mullet!!

However the HD and most other HTC phones are still relatively rare, more 'bespoke' i don't know anyone else with a HD.

Anyway i'm off to have my haircut, think i might go for the Mullet!!! not:D

DC
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
donbronzi,

You comments are valid.

Yes, itune's main problem is the slow speed of synchronization, as compared to ActiveSync.

Yes, the file directory and format is a little difficult to handle as compared to winmo.

You will never find me denying any weakness in iPhone when there is really such a weakness.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Actually mate i can remember your comments on this in a thread a few months ago and always found what you wrote to be spot on, therefore i'm always interested in what you write.

I am also open minded and have a keen interest in gadgets and inovations within tech so have naturally always had a 'secret' soft spot for the iphone.

Also as i travel alot i would be concerned about the roaming issues (with data etc). I've only heard this 3rd party.

Cheers DB:)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
donbronzi,

I too have reservations about roaming, not in terms of technical feasibility but the cost of doing so. Sometimes, if a telco in that country has a data plan without contract (e.g., you can get that if you travel to Malaysia), then I would use it.

However, you do need to unlock your phone in order to do so.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
care to elaborate
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Sure.

I am a music engineer, that is my job. Now i had an MP3 player back in the day before the ipod and had all my files nice and organised in MP3s and the occasional wav. There was no conflict with any media player.

My missus bought me an ipod which i love but the devil was lurking in the box. Itunes.

Itunes systimatically went through my whole music libary converting moving rearranging and coping files.

As for the file formats it may have got better recently but because (as far as i know correct me if i'm wrong) there are no codecs you still have relatively few file extensions playable on itunes. Any windows device can play any file ext codec depending. Thats just drag and drop stuff very simple. Itunes is all about 1 way syncing.

CAn you plug your iphone into your mates computer and let them take your music? Even with itunes? (i genuinally don't know).

Itunes is ok if you buy your music from the itunes store, or you're just putting a cd in and extracting the audio (basic user level stuff letting itunes do what it does) but for me, i transfer alot of music from vinyl to data which i want to include in my music collection it then becomes illogical and more messy.

Also as far as a media player goes it is resource heavy and tends to dominate the system.

Apple software is a big reason why i won't get an iphone, just too inflexible designed to 'tie you in'.

:)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
donbronzi,

As a music engineer, what type of music formats do you usually deal with?
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Well mainly wav, sometimes mp3s sometimes oggs often depends on what the client wants.
[Touch HD General] lossweight:
totally agree! Who cares about c&p? We can get all that thru you know who.... Apple, please improve signal reception, speaker volume, call volume!
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
This article may be a little old but according to the poster's test result, it does support certain type of wav files but not all. See if this article helps you.

http://www.kehlet.cx/articles/156.html

Cheers.

edit: would you mind sending me a short music file in wav format for testing please? I noted there are many music players in Cydia, and would like to see if anyone of them could do the job that the stock player can't.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Will take a look at that artical.

I can send you a wav no problem but they are large files. Have you an email address that will take 13m? If so PM me and i'll send something over right away. Alternatively i could just give you a tiny clip of something?

note: Wav is high quality and as such is a huge file (uncompressed) so isn't really ideal for portable media.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Yes, please give me a small file. Just PMed you and provided the email address.

Also found this article that says iPhone does support wav files, and would play it directly if you receive it as an email attachment.

http://mac.blorge.com/2007/09/27/iphone-update-adds-mp3-and-wav-email-attachment-support/
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Success report

Hi donbronzi,

Good news. Your wav files plays beautifully without any conversion whatsoever. After unzipping your file on my PC, I use a file transfer utility called Files Lite (If I remember correctly, it is a free application from the applestore), and upload to my iPhone over WIFI. Then by clicking on it in Files Lite, it plays right away very very clearly.

"extract from the .. every season... my favourite.. from the Far East...."

All spoken words? Thought you're going to send me a free high quality music file:-)

I believe that if you had not zipped your file, I would have been able to play it directly from the email by merely clicking on the attachment. Of course, wav files are gigantic in size because the whole idea is to give the highest quality music possible, so zipping is probably the way to go.

BTW, since you're in the music industry, you might like to learn that iPhone has an excellent four tracks music recording software here:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/...mic-more-but-no-love-for-original-ipod-touch/

Unlikely to be good enough for professional recording, but looks interesting still.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
WOW!!!

an intelligent person on this forum!!!

today's my luck day!!!!

Donbronzi, what you have written here, probably has to be one of the best written post i have read in a long long while, on this form, hats off to you buddy!!

Anyhow, enough with the compliments, i think we should get down to deal with your questions.

if i may rephrase you, your questions come under two broad headings.

1)Can i use iPods/iPhones as disk drives to transfer music.

2)Can iTunes be tinkered with so as to allow you more flexibility in a)File and Folder management b)Codec Support

i think you hit the nail when you said that "iTunes is designed for one way transfer only"

that about sums up iTunes if you ask me.

but having said that, its not entirely impossible to use iPods and iPhones as disk drives.

Here's how you can use your iPod http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1329

before you could do this, this is how you would go about transferring music from iPods http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/ontherun/how-to-copy-music-from-your-ipod-to-your-itunes-library-5615

which is essentially how you'll do it with an iPhone, except that you'll either need to ssh into the phone (Wifi) or need a third party software to look at iPhone hidden file structure.

or you can do it the way steve described, and do the exact opposite on the other computer.

Coming to the second question

a)the option to turn off itunes from messing with your file structure is in Edit>Pref.>Advanced Pref.

here you can un-check the required entries that copy and rename folders and files at abandon.

b)your second question is in fact very tricky,

yes you can play and manage (partially) oggs and flacs with itunes but only on macs and that too by adding open source plugins, which have there own shortcomings like no tag/ album art support.

But to the best of my knowledge, All WAVs,AAC, MP3s, are supported.

but, this leads me to question, can iPhones and iTouch's support OGG and other formats??

there are open source firmware for iPods that gives them this functionalities, but i have no clue about iPhone, Maybe Steve will be kind enough to go through cydia and search for OGG and let you know if there is a third party player.

P.S i personally use and prefer jetaudio but that's a different story altogether :)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
There is a third party media player called vlc4iphone which is supposed to be able to play most of the formats including .ogg files.

Would be happy to test it for you if you could send me your file.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
iPhone battery last longer than HD? now that is just bull! everything you say is automatically invalid. you can talk all bs you want steve but we know better
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Don't worry, intelligent people can tell who is just a bull.

Do you own an iPhone, honestly? If you do, you will know that the unit is RELATIVELY cool when compared to HD. The difference is great especially when using WIFI.

On the other hand, not just my Athena, but also my HD overheats easily. This is not just these two devices. Other HTC devices have this problem too.

Does your HD overheats like mine, and many others'? This is despite having the device replaced.

http://www.fixya.com/support/t1579561-htc_touch_hd_heating_problem

This is not just these two devices. Other HTC devices such as Touch Pro have this problem too.

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=47032

This poster had six Touch HD and all have the same overheating problems

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3590525&postcount=1

Just a few more:

http://www.mmus.us/forum/showpost.php?p=70932&postcount=1

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3217123&postcount=1

I suppose you will definitely tell me that yours stay perfectly cool and that everyone who have that problem should get their unit replaced.

Everyone who have studied science can tell you that the thermal energy wasted must come from the electrical energy from the excessive battery leakage/drain.

Anyway, I post according to my own experience and don't you come and bull me. This is my last warning to you.

You have been posting without basic courtesy and manners I must say. If you feel threatened by people saying good things about iPhone, just skip this thread but please do not behave like an annoying pest when others are trying to hold some reasonable discussions here. Note, I will not be responding to your posts in the future if they are too rude again. I do not mind people having different preferences and views, but please respect others when you post. If you do not like to be spoken to that way, don't do it to others.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Synching to two computers?

Earlier, I made reference to a hack that would enable iPhone to be synced to more than one computers. I just found out that there are two third party software on the Cydia that would let you do just this for those who want to sync to their work as well as home computer.

The software are:

SwitchTunes

and

SwapTunes

Check it out in the Cydia store.
[Touch HD General] trice1921:
Perhaps that should be posted in an iPhone forum?
[Touch HD General] Brenda_Sheldon:
Looking for alternative to iPhone??? Is it the Touch HD?

Hi All,

I gave up my Dopod 818 Pro to get an iPhone. But was not happy about the voice dialing, restrictive software etc...etc.. anyways, got rid of the iPhone and looking to buy another HTC product with more friendly Windows product - should I go for Touch HD? How is the call quality? I have been reading in the reviews that the call quality is poor - any cooked ROM or app to increase the call quality? Any other alternatives?

I kind of like the bigger screen face (3.8"), I like to have good call quality and easy to access features? I like the Microsoft Calendar etc, file explorer and be able to see what exactly is stored in the phone and not just a black box. Any recommendation?

Have a great weekend!

Brenda :)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
AFAIK, voice dialing in the non-jailbroken dialing is possible, however, you can't do it over bluetooth with the current firmware yet. In other word, you must still touch the phone. For me, it is not a problem as I always place my iPhone on the windscreen for in-car charging anyway and touching it is no different from changing my radio station of my radio. It always involves only touches to make calls, with the way I have customised my phone. I just connect by wire to my car speaker to get whatever volume I need before driving off.

I also got the impression that Apple is seeking to implement voice control over a much wider range of function, and not just in dialing a telephone number. See this article here on what may be coming in firmware 3.0:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10223915-233.html

So, while driving, you could also control over things besides calling and receiving.

Safety is a concern though. There is some studies suggesting that even completely hands free bluetooth phone calls poses significant safety risk to drivers. So, it is not just people who text and drive that are at risk.

iPhone certainly has some glaring weaknesses, but most (not all) of them could be solved after jailbreaking. It also has some strengths which could never never be found in other platform. I would try to list more comprehensively my requirements and do a proper evaluation before deciding which phone to buy next, like I did here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2891347&postcount=35

Not all my requirements were met by iPhone. Specifically I still do not have a good GPS software. I would also prefer a larger phone with about 4.5 inch screen (though I can accept a 3.5 inch compromise) since I use my iPhone more like a computer and not so much as a phone. However, despite not having all needs met, it is the best phone for me at the moment.

Hope this helps.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Thank you kind sir!!

And a very informative reply aslo...

This is such an interesting topic simple because they are arguably the 2 best phones ever. (all things considered).

Although they both seem to do the same things or at least similar, they do go about it in completely different ways.

As i've said previously their strengths are their weeknesses, the fact that WM is more versitile is also the reason there isn't such support like there is with Iphone etc.

Swings and roundabouts,

lets see what the new iphone will be like becuse as far as i can see the new HTC stuff (touch pro 2, diamond 2) is a HD in a different box?

DB
[Touch HD General] ninja_pimp:
Hi guys,im back after so many months in iphone land:D I happened to see tis thread so i hope to said a few words bros!I have used WInMo for 5 years areadi and i like the fact i can mod and tweak my PDA to my liking.At my peak,I was flashing my PDA almost every other day.I was flashing it more than i was usin it..:D i was addicted to Flashin and all the good roms didnt help.I have own winMo5 devices,flashin them to winmo6,install samsung omnia touchwiz interface on htc touch,install touchflo 2d on my omnia,flashin a new version of dutty rom for diamond almostly every 3 days...etc...It was so fun!Then 1 day,i tried my friend Iphone when it was launch in my country...I was amazed...the interface,the speed,the multimedia power...etc...COOL!i went to buy one a few days later,the first i did was to jailbreak it with my friend help...after tat i realise tis fone really kick ass for a entertainment set...i still kept my winmo sets but the only time i really used them is for the gps.i would not give up my winmo set but every clearly,iphone have take over my live like tweakin and flashin did...only tis time way,im enjoyin my fone not tryin to make it better:) i lookin to get my next fone now....yup,u guess it,touch HD!:D tats y im in tis HD thread. i do think tat both fone can co-exist at the same time,like im doin nw wif iphone and diamond.they are my 1st and 2nd choices fone,best of both worlds...the rest my wife is using them...but if i really have to choose one...it will be iphone without a doubt...hope i did not offend anyone here as im juz speakin my mind...now....where to get a HD cheap?:p:p:p
[Touch HD General] bash2009:
i love my HTC touch HD and the iphone i think is noh bad and wudnt mind having but after reading ur top 10 iphone draw backs wow made me realise how crap it really is like noooo multi taskin cmonnn! :cool:
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
WOW!

Mate you should be a politician!! Or are you one already??

The next Iphone sounds like it could be a perfect device? Like i've already said i don't think there are any WM phones coming out this year that are particulary more advanced than the current crop which is worrying.

Here in the Uk the iphone exclusivity on the O" network is coming ti an end in time for the nes release and although i really really love my HD i am tempted.

The only thing thats really bothering me is the apple side of things like itunes etc (as i've already metioned) and the nav software.

Steve do you have a pc or a mac? Is the PC support the same as the Mac support?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Hey donbronzi,

Just because I now like iPhone much more than winmo device does not mean that I automatically like Mac more than PC. I would never go near a Mac because it can't run most of the advanced games - pure and simple. Further, there is no real great difference in user friendliness between a mac and a PC, unlike between iPhone and winmo devices where the difference is great. But to be honest, I had always held secretly disdain on people who use Mac and iPhone in the past. My works involved implementing large scale computerised application systems for very large organizations, and we only use PC. Hence the bias towards PC.

PC support for iPhone is great. In fact, I heard that jailbreaking was first made available on PC before it was on Mac PC.

Sat nav together with office documents editing were two areas that I had identified as where iPhone is still behind winmo (in most other areas, it has moved way ahead IMO). Just a few weeks after I purchased iPhone, spreadsheet creating and editing is no longer an issue. Now I have a iPhone spreadsheet which I much prefer to the one given by Microsoft Mobile Office. However, Sat Nav is still an issue, unlesss you're in US.

In US, there is a Sat Nav software called G-Map, which does not require internet connection. There will release map for the rest of the world in times to come but now they only have US maps. I don't think it will be as good as TomTom though,which is still my gold standard for Sat Nav, because of Map Share and Legal Speed limit/red light/speed camera warning (although other product like iGO also has this, it is not as well done as TomTom's).

The good news is that there is credible "rumours" that Tom Tom is going to be available on the next generation iPhone, now that Apple has changed its policy to allow such software on the Applestore.

I think the iTune problem is over emphasized. People spread all kinds of false information such as you can only sync to one and only one PC, you MUST use it to manage music, etc, etc. Actually iTune is great, from my perspective. I can try out virtually every songs in the store without buying it, for example, all on my iPhone.

Politician? LOL. I wish I am. That's one of the best jobs in the world it you ask me. But you must'nt have conscience and integrity to be one, so I'm not good enough for that, LOL. I try to give honest and sincere answer to any questions genuinely asked.

If anyone is interested in reading why iPhone is winning the hearts of so many people, and it could satisfy the needs of even technical IT professional and corporate users (BTW, I was in the IT industry for close to 30 years), the following article contains some really intelligent and good discussions. The title of the thread is "Why I despise iPhone", but you will see that towards the end of the thread, there is no doubt in everyone's mind on which is going to be THE phone for the next few years.

http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/editorial/20199-why-i-despise-iphone.html