yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] BadCluster:
For me the solution it's simply:

1) are you a chef? you CAN'T be also a Moderator

2) are you a moderator? you CAN'T be also a Chef

It's like the italian problem with Berlusconi (really BIG BIG problem for a LITTLE LITTLE person)

With this rule, there isn't any Conflict of Interest!
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] ayl:
Of course nobody here is quilty, there is no evidence, nobody has never paid for no sharing (the guy who has been paid with nick ****** or something like this has taken everything into his head). Everithing is OK, again friends and brothers OK? But this is not court where only strict evidence are admitted. The fact is that only one chef has this sensitive contents into his ROM, nobody else. Of course he has not paid for that. Someone else has paid and keep the ROM only for his own device. The Admin said sharing is not compulsory here - yes, it is true. The guy can keep the ROM only for himself and not to be nervous. Cheers!
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] ClownShoes:
Well for me it's simple as well.

A person is innocent until proven guilty. There has been no hard evidence bought forward, only accusations, rumours and hearsay.

It appears there are many here who would like to act as judge, jury and executioner and others who would happily hold the site to ransom to prove a point. It's all very disappointing to witness such a childish, pack mentality and I'm really not at all surprised Duttythroy has now said he is withdrawing from the site.

I hope those of you involved are pleased with what you may see as a victory, but I for one think the site has unnecessarily suffered a great loss :(

Rich
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] arkavat:
This whole problem started with CHEF not sharing...

CHEF's don't sell... but here is a scenario..

1) CHEF A..Y makes a ROM A..Y shares it.

2) CHEF Z uses parts of ROM A, ROM B, ROM C... and uses some "super" secret stuff, which he can't share, and makes ROM Z

3) I am a simple user... I see ROM A..Y and ROM Z... ROM Z is fancier.. I start using it. Donate to CHEF Z.

CHEF Z will always have advantage and get more donations.

Scenario 2:

1) CHEF C announce a new ROM

2) CHEF C post a note that beta will be available ONLY if you donate. Else wait for months.

Both the scenarios are ones that you can see on XDA.

This is not quite selling.. but neither is it simple donations. User will "give" or is forced/fooled to "give". Only first "give" = donations... other one is not.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] donbronzi:
Chef C said and explained why he couldn't dump the rom.

Chef Cs roms have always been the most popular (averaged out)

Chef C is amoungst the most well know XDA chefs

Can't find this post after searching, please enlighten me.

I have never been forced to donate and if forced i wouldn't, there would be other ways of getting it.

This argument seems to boil down to money!

Money is the root of all evil.

Maybe you should only be able to donate to XDA and not chefs? XDA could then reward chefs if they please.

We're forgetting that we use individual roms because we like their characters

I used Garmins roms on my Kaiser because i liked its personality,

I used touch of HD as my first long stay HD rom because it suited my usage.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] VizagDude:
Guyz... I think we should get over this and start moving on.

Even the Chefs who stopped ROM development, should put aside their egos and start looking at things in a much subjective and rational manner.

Now here is the situation...

You have stopped sharing your ROMs and stopped developing new ones and hoping to get some kind of decision that you are hoping that would satisfy your ego... (eithre a Mod stepping down or Sharing of the New ROM). The Admin made it pretty clear that he does not have hard evidence to prove that any one paid a member to stop sharing the ROM, so he not going to take any actions based on pure speculation. He also made it very clear that he cannot force any one to share their findings.. since its not a mandatory as per XDA - Conclusion: Admin did what ever he could and this thread is the result of his findings and decision.

Dutty made it very clear that he is not willing to sare his ROM. And I guess it is safe to assume by now that NO ONE can make him do that anymore unless he decides to do that by himself.

Now... there are so many members here in the Blackstone XDA that LOVE and ADORE the ROMs you cook and are hoping that you would continue your work... They have been waiting 2 days now. These are the loyal fans of your ROM. Now Dutty is releasing the next version of his ROM. Your fans want new stuff all the time, if you are not going to give them... they will look for the ones that are available (use Dutty's). So, in the process... your whole point of holding development and sharin of you ROMs is LOST, since a major portion of your loyal fans would go flash the ROMs that other other Chefs are releasing.

It is simple human psychology... You Snooze - You Loose.

My 2 cents.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] donbronzi:
agree with vizagDude
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] carburano:
QUOTE... but now is more important to give a good example...
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] sergiopi:
I want put my 5 cents here, as user, yes I am a MOD but let me just put my USER opinion an my MOD opinion.

Something happened here and this was read as a nasty action. Then people react, and somebody put gasoline on fire ("I was paid to not share").

First of all a clear vision was needed, but we aren't in a CSI or NAVVY NCIS movie, were everything is white or dark, we are in the real life and things are grey too, or with an unclear color.

Many things were painted in unclear color and if something is unclear, one of the best democracy principle is "Innocent means NO STRONG EVIDENCE" and "The person who allegedly got paid to not share this rom does not wish to tell me who did this nor wishes to provide proof for this"

May be he was playing with people, may be 100 other things!

SO the REAL solution is to avoid the REPEATING of this situation, and now ALL MODs have been exposed to KRIPTONITE, we can't perm delete NOTHING, i can't perm delete even MY MESSAGES :)

Moderators are victims of this situation, great :( , but we agree (may be just because we HAVE TO :D )

Sharing... "we believe that by sharing the community will benefit most it is not a rule, I can not nor do I wish to force people to share"

I believe in friendship but I can't force somebody to be my friend, sharing is the same, we can SUGGEST sharing but we can't FORCE sharing

Just may 5 c. (plus tax)
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] ciccione:
I agree with you my friend!

The example is very clear :D and I think that your solution is the best.

Respect and freedom!
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] tjex:
Well said VizagDude, though I might add one more thing:

-Dutty CAN'T share his ROM (instead of wont)

If he's going to get sued or lose his job over it, it's not worth it. I would do the exact same thing. He's about to have a new kid and THAT is more important than ROM's and all the complaining going on here. And if putting that source in the open makes his personal life difficult, especially at this crucial time, then I don't see how anyone can sit here and be selfish by complaining.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] stesa:
instead I well know !

xda is the forum of my choice , and You are the cooker of my choice ;)

its so simple , forget and go on bro !
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] Bustard:
isn't it possible to gain this incriminated dump from someone else? This guy who has been payed not to share would be the only one in the world wide web who has a pda rom dump?

Can't we go to the source instead? I'm really asking, because I can't understand this.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] pzucchel:
A request to Flar

Dear Flar,

let me expose my opinion, i stopped supporting my ROM and i can explain why I am not fully satisfied by your conclusions and i ask you a different action.

The three events:

1. a possible (and a-posteriori not confirmed) incorrect behavior from a great cook which is also a moderator (DuttyThroy)

2. a reaction/opinion/challenge from some other users

3. the same moderator taking actions like posting a provocative "closed thread" to which normal users cannot reply, and deleting messages involving himself and related actions. All things which are not possible to all of us.

1. and 2.

It is not the first time we have an exchange of opinions about opensource against a more closed approach. Without entering into the merit, we have freedom of opinions beyond doubt! So let me, as user, the freedom not to use the ROM in question, and let's allow other users to be free not to exchange ROMS for whatever reason.

3.

The real problem, and the consequent tensions, were generated by the moderator behaviour: in my opinion, there is evidence of abuse of moderator rights for personal reasons and privileges. I subjectively felt, through my cultural background and life experience, this behavior as arrogant, and definitely not suitable to a moderator.

From the webster:

"Moderator: one who arbitrates"

The arbiter cannot be the judge, the witness, the accused and the police inspector at the same time.

At the end of the story, it is the abuse of moderator rights that has generated the dissatisfaction we are living.

While points 1. and 2. are definitely a matter of opinions and clearly out of your jurisdiction, it is a very different case for the abuse of moderator rights that is, in my opinion, perfectly documented.

For this reasons, i would ask you to remove to the moderator DuttyThroy, even temporarily, the moderator rights - with no other consequences to the user that remains one of the greatest cooks of the forum and that we should all respect, even if he has different opinions than many of us.

Respectfully,

Piero
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] tibou:
My 2 cents.

Modify the rules and add this :

-	1/All the parts of a Rom published on XDA may be public and published individually on XDA or anywhere. Thus, the différence between ROMs will be in the talent of the Chef for cooking, choice the programs and package it, not in the friends or relationships of the Chef who give ROMs or programs.

-	2/BadCluster’s rule : 1) are you a chef? you CAN'T be also a Moderator. 2) are you a moderator? you CAN'T be also a Chef

XDA for ever !
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] carburano:
Quote... This is the smartest post i've read here on XDA
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] infido:
compliments for your explanation
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] KChauJen:
Thank YOU very much for your point of view.

Thanks again...

KCJ
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] rasco11:
Quote... This is the smartest post i've read here on XDA:D

As a user I don't want to see ANY chef leave this forum, it's for the good of of the community as whole, so pls think thrice before making a harsh decision.

WE ALL NEED YOU, CHEFS!!;)
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] carburano:
With all the respect, this is the best off-topic post in this soap opera...

I was thinking that the problem was about sharing and mod power abuse and not a "how to cook history" guide.

Sorry, but this is another soap opera.

EDIT: yearn is not the solution to this problem
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] jackleung:
Well said, couldn't agree more and reminder me of the old days w/ those iPaq and early HTC (dopod) devices.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] donbronzi:
Very well said mate, as it is we (XDA) stands to lose a Very good cook!! Doh
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] giacominos:
Every new post is part of this soap-opera.. included this.. Everybody know that the mods are not going to change idea, so every chefs have to accept in the good or in the bad that decision, take is own decision, write in this thred and in the Rom (his own ROm) thred if he wants leave or stay, cook or not, so.. come on characters play the role and we can put the word END.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] hellonasty:
This is a great speech!

Will not change anything!

I'm getting sick of seeing so much injustice and lack of courage...

See the good example!! BEPE, ERVIUS, DupinBJK,Noonski, Kwbr, anryl, herg62123, davideuck, Ameet, conflipper and many others who work to help.

Some are simple mods other users, only distinguish the color of Nick!
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] TheOnly1:
Jesus. Me previous device was a Polaris. I can well remember all the excitement when Manila 2D and the Opal stuff (mainly dialer) was introduced to the Polaris. It was a whole new experience, even a greater jump forward than the Topaz/Rhodium stuff for the Blackstone. And I can remember very well that at least for a week there was ONLY 1 ROM with Manila 2D (Syrius by uDK) around. Funny enough nobody made such a circus and the stuff was really revolutionary - completely NEW interface, completely NEW dialer and other fancy features never seen before. The SDHC support for the Artemis (a GIGANTIC breacthrough) was at first also limited to ONE ROM...the others got it a few days later.

I also strongly support the post of The Equinoxe. I've been hanging around for 6 months with the discotinued Bebe 0.67 for the Poraris. It was early BETA but was still light years ahead of everything else in terms of stability and optimization for quite a long time. Who cares that the build is older when everythings works as it should and does it at faantastic speed? It was the same with Meschle's ROM's for the Artemis: A class of their own :cool:
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] BadCluster:
Maybe I don't understand but the Admin is one thing, the Moderators is another one! (I'm the admin of the biggest italian juggling community)

The moderator can be anyone with a very "good sense"

A moderator can be ANYONE!

It's not difficult choice a moderator withouth "chef experience!"

And if you want to be a chef, you renunce to be a moderator, I don't see any problems!

I remember about XDA is a developer forum, maybe someone else here has fogot it, paying a person for not sharing a ROM.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] stesa:
I can't see like a problem that a chef and a mod are the same person , we are going out of road..

we talk about to share or not to share , to share the source or not ? well ... it seem to me we can solve easy , just a small rule like this :

on this forum is prohibited to publish protected ROMs , in any way protected.

end of problems.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] sergiopi:
As Admin of a large community you know quite well the difference between, "I WAS PAID" and a Paypal statement :) don't forget, the fact are "someone SAID I was paid".

May be he was, may be he wasn't, may be he want only put some gasoline on fire, strange, he gets money and he self accusing himself? why? or may be he his sorrow and he want to justify his action? He is stupid or he is an hero? OR something totally different, he is a victim.... OR.... too many OR! We, (and you when you put the ADMIN Hat :) ) have to thrust to everyone until strong evidence, and this is safe for you too! ;)

MOD group is representative of many souls in this forum, chefs, users, teens, grandpas, :) and this is good IMHO for the forum health!

@stesa: if we accept your rule the ROM level will decrease without any advantage. A PROTECTED ROM is just another ROM and protections aren't forever :-) A PAY PER USE ROM is forbidden here, or PAY TO DOWNLOAD is forbidden too
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] zoomee:
As quite rightly pointed out - this has been like a witch hunt albiet without any evidence to support it.

As a result I think an apology is due to the accused from the accusers. If I was going out of my way to help this community and individuals started to abuse me the way that dutty has been, I would leave not to return out of principle of them not apologising and not being told off at least.....

being called everything he has been by certain individuals on here is classed as harrasment/bullying no matter which way you look at it.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] stesa:
you are right Sergio , but if any ROM will be NOprotected we stop any issue like the one we are talking about.

every cooker know that his room will be dumped , every cooker can save his source , nobody risk his job , nobody can say "I was payed for not share" , and what isnt protected is really shared.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] liamhere:
this post says it all for me

i don't think i need to add anything to the above statement.

i wish you all a good weekend.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] DaveShaw:
Please consider this FYI (I am not offering any kind of opinion here):

Dutty (as are many other chefs) are cooking using PlatformRebuilder by bepe which does not include the files for proper ROM dumping.

Here is bepe's response to the question of ROM dumping:http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3218754&postcount=49

Thanks

Dave
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] kanthai:
I agreed with you.

Nobody can prove him guilty, then he is innocent. That's the basic of justice.

With "Apology" and "Forgiveness", we can move forward.

I, for one, call for apology and forgiveness to both side, it's not that hard really.

Can we have it? everyone?
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] crashDebug:
i still dont get it. the "incriminated" rom build has been dumped from another source like 3-4 days after duttys 1.8 extreme. And i wonder who could think that this wouldnt have happened.

so what ?

or am i missing something important in that rom dump?
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] stesa:
hi Dave , thank for your answer , I know bepe's tool and maybe we can accept a little little little slow ROMs no more using that tool , imho.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] TheOnly1:
You are missing NOTHING important IMO. The whole affair is that Dutty had the new Manila and some other cool stuff before everybody else. In the meantime PhamQuang (PDAViet) also has a ROM with the new Manila and more will follow in the next days. It's more a I want it NOW thing :rolleyes: It's pretty clear that Topaz/Rhodium will be dumped by many ppl once the devices are in the wild.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] jonajuna:
my god its still going on with *****ing and hidden jabs :(

when are people going to wake up and see that this place is an INTERNET FORUM FFS

its not real life, no-one is going to die by what ever happens here

basically, chill out and get a life!

:)

peace :)
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] VizagDude:
I know exactly what you are talking about. Even my earlier device was Polaris and udK's Siryus ROM was kick ass. He actually posted a video of the ROM on YouTube and members went crazy. In less than a week every other chef was cooking M2D into their ROMs.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] zoomee:
it was the same individuals spamming all the boards and threads, rallying the other cooks to be 'on their side' - without naming names, because they know who they are.

I'd personally like to see more than just an apology, but a slap on the wrist from the admin to set the example for this type of behaviour. Saying that, others are more forgiving than me and might just settle for an apology.....which I still doubt will be forthcoming......
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] AllTheWay:
Please bring forward and evidence you have to support this? :)

Exactly ;) ...and this is all about money. "Whenever somebody says it's not about the money...it's about the money"

I would just like people to say I'm sorry, but apparently that is to much to ask for.

Everybody: People are acting like they will never get a Diamond 2 or Touch Pro 2 ROM in there hands. LOL, do any of you actually think that won't happen. Just give it time my good friends.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] donbronzi:
Agree.... As i've already said Money is the root of all evil.

I have never in my life seen people so ready to take sides and point blame without any real proof (some needed no more than copied a PM!)

The personal attacks have got to stop, they are clearly still coming from a core bunch of users( and a couple of respected ones at that).

If you're not happy i would either try and find more real evidence of wrong doing or move on. As far as XDA are concerned they have put procedures into place like not allowing the permanent deletion of threads and i'm sure they will be working on other such safeguards.

Support the community, its not about 1 chef on 1 phone thread.

The point still remains that unless absolute proof is found one way or the other people won't be convinced. On this assumtion like i said before we have all got to move on.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] hotrod101:
Feeling bad for all of the personal attacks agains him I wanted to send Dutty a PM (but couldn't so am writing here) to offer my gratitude for all of the work he has done for this forum (even though I don't use his or anyone's custom ROM's) I have been reading many of these threads lately and feel bad about the whole thing even though I had nothing to do with it. I hated seeing everyone getting all worked up over this and how there are now many people with bad feelings (some talking of leaving XDA or ending development of current projects or future projects) over what appears to be a misunderstanding / misinterpretation. It is not uncommon for our frustrations and anger to affect our better judgement and we tend to jump to conclusions and say things / do things out that we wouldn't normally and sometimes regret afterwards.

Now that the matter has been looked into officially by the Adminstrator and an official statement issued, and now that things seem to be settling down, I hope that everyone will be able to think more clearly (using reason, common sense and personal morality) and all statements of personal attack against others will be forgiven and forgotten. I hope that we can now all get along and begin co-operating, developing, helping others and once again make this forum the same great place it has always been.
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] crashDebug:
so we more or less lost one of the best chefs for hd for THREE DAYS worth of not sharing a rom?!!?!?

grats ppl
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] unowho:
Move on

What a hobby :) & like most hobbies, it's really about friendly competition.

Why should you have to share your competitive edge on day 1, nothing wrong with a little bit of kudos for a couple of days?

The posturing does have an element of humour though. I would bet that sharing would have taken place not that long after EXTREME was released anyway.

Let the man have a bit of cache (or even a bit of cash (and this is not an aspersion!!!) for a ridiculous amount of effort put into his hobby.

If Dutty has done anything it was no more than being a bit cheeky.

We are not all driven by the same motivators - does that determine whether a person is good or bad?

I'd be a hermit if I chose my friends that way!

If people make a bit of money, good luck to them - If people are doing it for money, then more fool them.

This is such a great site and I don't believe it has an equal in any sphere.

I also don't believe that it would be what it is without the friendly competition, sharing and support that creative people bring to each other.

Pride is a very foolish emotion as self respect and the respect of others is all that matters. Part of that is respecting each other’s differences and the choices they make.

Come back stronger! and maybe a little bit wiser?
[Touch HD Windows Mobile ROM Development] VizagDude:
'Neff' of the fiasco!

The chefs are back in ACTION. Any bitterness that is left, will be fade away over time (hopefully soon).

Mods / Admin... Can you please close this Thread now.

Thank you all. There is nothing here to be said other than what already posted before. Get back to Cooking, Flashing and 'Njoying your HDs.

Peace OUT every body.