yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] vizier:
3G camera as D-Pad

some people suggested using the front camera as a button,but how about using it as d-pad.

The camera can be used as a full d-pad (also with a center button) by using Image processing, in theory. I personnally have experience in image prpcessing, and I believe this can be done.

However, I am new to ppc programming and ppc APIs. Nevertheless, i can help anybody interested in this.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] wedge666:
It stays in the middle of the fingers, when it reaches the black area it disapears, then if I move the finger in the black area down and then the other one inwards it will reapear downwards.

In short it works as expected except that it can't be seen in the black area.

What I'm calling a "cursor" is what happens to items when you move them around in the inventory screen. For people not familiar with the game we can say it acts like a finger controlled cursor.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] vijay555:
@vizier:

I considered doing an optical control pad - I have a Samsung Omnia in my possession, which uses the optical mouse technology for its cursor control, and my VJVirtualMouseWinFX was based on a similar feeling control mechanism, although it used the touch screen rather than an optical sensor.

I didn't use the camera because I considered that

1. The API for the camera is not particularly open, so we couldn't guarantee the type of image we need, related to:

2. The CPU cost of continuously polling the camera for an updated image to give us directional control would be high, and for games, CPU is better spent on rendering the game than the control mechanism, IMHO, and

3. In any event, there is no internal illumination in the cameras (like the red led/laser in an optical mouse). Thus, when you finger is covering the optical sensor, the "image" will be effectively black, leaving you with little to process with the image processing algorithm. You could probably get a usable image if your finger is a few millimeters above the camera sensor, but that's not really comfortable, and hit and miss.

@wedge666 et al:

That's good to know about the dead screen region in WVGAFix. It was highly likely, all things considered, as the "hardware" buttons, hang up, back, etc are all part of the touch screen as well, and clearly they need to continue to function even when WVGAFix is artificially reducing the screen size.

This is just what we needed to know - I suggest that the next steps should be to just draw the dpad in the "dead" region of the screen, ie the blank region in WVGAFix, and let the touch sensor continue to do its job processing the input.

V
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] MAMeingast:
Damn - this sounds so promising! I wish there was something I could do to help! *noob* ;)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] bugsykoosh:
guys, I hope this helps to bring some attention to your cause: http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-exists-now-without-new-hardware-or-software/
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Thank you for that, mate. I have left a comment. :)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] sschrupp:
Forgive me if I'm shooting blanks when it comes to questions and ideas, but I figure it's always possible my newbish posts could always spark an idea in someone that knows better.. hehe.

Anyhow, now that we know the black area IS still responsive when using WVGAfix3, does the WVGAfix3 application have the ability to adjust where the virtual display is? Could it center the display on our screen so that we can position the d-pad at the top of the screen, and buttons at the bottom like previously suggested? Of course the buttons at the bottom might not be needed if we're using the hang-up, back, etc. buttons, but it'd still allow us to provide more than 4 buttons if needed.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] DanMccoy1:
Im Nowhere Near As Good As You Guy's But Im Pretty Good At Graphic Design, If Your Too Busy To Work On An Interface Design Or Whatever Just Give Me A PM :)

And Good Luck, Sounds Great (:
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
Any news ?
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
We've had some very encouraging progress... vijay has had a couple of technical breakthroughs... I'll post up some details a little later after I've recovered from today's result!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
Excellent !!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] sschrupp:
Ohh, that's an exciting statement!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] TheDestroyer:
As for using light sensor as a button - it is rather sensitive and I think it can be used as a button.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] damianpadden:
do tell, do tell. Whats the news?
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] TheDestroyer:
Some more info: The game Atomic Cannon runs full screen on HD and all butons except Home button of HD does nothing during the game, so unmapping of bottom HD buttons is possible
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Yeah... I didn't mean to be a tease... I was hoping to have my laptop available to post the info... but unfortunately not.

Anyway... a quick update:

As you may know one of the key technical difficulties in this project was moving the position of the display window... because of the way fullscreen games access the hardware shifting the position around to make room for controls needed to be done without losing too much performance.

Not as simple as it may seem.

We may have a simple solution for this, though... and once we know for a fact it works well we can then integrate it into the final app.

I'll keep you posted.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Thanks for the info, mate. I knew they would be... but it's nice to see it in action.

It would be very useful to know the grid positions on the touchscreen of these buttons, though.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] TheDestroyer:
More info: The program AE Button Plus can assign bottom buttons except "Home" on anything you want and it works on HD. So unmapping and remapping of these buttons is possible.

Here is the link to this program http://ae.inc.ru/aebplus.php

Can't wait for the results of your work :)

Addition: this program can assign up, down, left and right actions on single, double or triple click. It works for applications, but the Worms World Party game doesn't feel any assigned actions like up, down,left or right...
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
Any news Kizmet ? Need some help ?
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Not as yet, guys... progress has been a bit slow. But as always will keep you updated.

As regards to help... We could use a front end programmer to reduce the burden.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] LiKBeAsT:
Hello guys:)

Just finished reading this thread!

Once again great work guys and.. please.... keep on! ! ! !

I found some of ur ideas pretty interesting (of course, along with the 1st multitouch suggestion), so here u go :

*

Again in landscape mode but home keys on the left side :

Someone could use the actually hardware vol up/down buttons as A and B!

My guess that it would be easy to use them as the same time a dpad left, right etc. again the dpad would be on the left screen side. Bad thing is that u only have two of them:(

*

Splitting the dpad from the A and B buttons in landscape will be kicka** ! more space for the fingers and more space for the multitouch "invisible" keys.

the A B etc button should not be very close to each other so that more space for multitouch is available!

Oh and btw.. Do not have them on the lower side of the landscape. I think it would be better if they were in the middle or even at the top (more space for finger and more relaxed hands!)

A nice touch using home etc buttons could be the following:

use them as A, B etc and have only the dpad on the other side.. This way you could actually "split" the dpad from the other virtual buttons!

*

Regarding the sensors idea:

You can check the light sensor's sensitivity with the gLight application.. seems pretty sensitive and fast (well probably not enough for the really fast games) However there are other problems with this.. u need light!

I noticed that even the shadow from my head, can make the light sensor show 0, (indoors with room's lamp)

Question regarding transparency :

Can't we use a specific color and "flag" it as transparent? After that the program reading the image should read that color as transparent..

Generally i think this is possible but not sure if changes to the morphgear are possible in order to implement this
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Thanks for the input likbeast. :-)

Now did I imagine this or was there a post from vijay from the carribean that has gone before i could reply?
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] jim256:
No I saw it too!...and still have the email telling what he said :)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Traasje:
Nice!

It's good to see someone is making the best of the HD :-)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
Yep, and 1.0 looks promising too ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQgfLnb1edQ
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Brilliant! Want to repost it for me? :-)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] jim256:
Well sure!:

"Guys, my apologies for disappeaing for a while - I'm off cruising around the Caribbean until next week, hence the radio silence.

I have my netbook with me and am watching copius Terminator Chronicles and thinking about developing!

Kizmet, apologies for replying to your PM here, but I only have net access through a blackberyy :( What was I meant to be looking into at this stage? Please pm or ideally email to vj at vijay555.com so I can email replies directly.

From memory, calculated multitouch is done enough to be usable, and we are just working on interface designs. The WVGAfix method can reserve the bottom of the screen for buttons, but we have to consider what to do with the dpad area (in landscape orientation) as we can't use the same trick to reserve space at the top (near the speaker).

We can directly overlay and obsure the screen with a dpad (in full screen games) but otherwise what other options do you think would be usable?

V"
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
He didn't removed it intentionally, loadsd of posts have been wiped out in many threads because the forum had to be reset or something like this.

Now please Vjay, come back from your vacations, we need some updates here ;)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] jim256:
Oh ok, right got it. Well in that case, post edited.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] vijay555:
Hey all, I'm back on dry land. I don't know what happened to my post about being on holiday :( All went well on my holiday, apart from me losing my hat somewhere in Puerto Rico. If anyone sees it, let me know.

This thread seems to have gone a bit quiet. Wassup?

What's new?

I'm currently bogged down on a tangentially (ir)relevant issue that has taken me quite some time (years!) to pin down, so I'm distracted by that and not actively working on the multi touch issues immediately, unless someone asks me to respond to a question. However, the issue I'm working on will be relevant to the multitouch app, one day...

Anyway, just a quick thought about some of the comments above.

@LiKBeAsT and @all -

WM doesn't do transparency like that. You can bitblt (paint graphics over graphics) with a colorkey (a transparent colour), but that's in GDI (ie "Windows" based applications), which will achieve exactly what you say.

However, any full screen game worth its salt is going to use direct frame buffer access to paint the screen (much faster screen updates). That's going to cause two problems.

1. Painting color keyed graphics is going to require quite a lot of CPU intensive processing - grab a (portion) of the eg Morphgear screen, paint your dpad GUI pixel by pixel, checking for color keyed pixels and paint over Morphgear. This is slow.

and

2. Your fullscreen app is going to be painting at 30fps or so. You're going to have to do step (1) at least as often as Morphgear, and even then, you will probably get painted OVER by Morphgear. This is going to be a general problem for any overpainting we do over an existing app. However, best solution is going to be, paint our GUI very often (30fps or so), and live with a certain degree of flicker when Morphgear etc paints over us for a fraction of a second.

Due to (2) happening very often, it's probably not very responsible to try to do (1) color keyed bit blitting at 30fps on a "complex" image. Best bet is just to paint a square-ish DPAD etc image over Morphgear and hope for the best.

V
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
@ this mothafuc*** post checking script: no, my message isn't too short, it's in the quote, you silly ass.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] LiKBeAsT:
may we ask what is this about ? :)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] vijay555:
It's a method of system hack I need to implement to complete VJSihaya, and to also enable a ton more system hacks I have in mind.

I've spent about 2 years thinking about it, and have about 80% of the solution (enough for VJSihaya), but the next 20% takes me into an area I've not dealt with before, so it's all slow and all new learning for me.

But if it works, it might permit some Palm Pre type GUI implementations (which is why it might be relevant to the GUI work we're doing in this thread).

Nothing too radical, but necessary for me, and as Kizmet knows, I tend to get overly focused on issues that get under my skin, until I figure it out (hence the occasional silences from my side!).

V

Update: just realised I'd being doing something slap forehead stupid for 3 months, hence problems with my code. Made some good progress on the "problem", finally!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] smeddy:
Guys, feel frustrated as my hands are tied behind my back help-wise - got no experience on HD programming, but I just want to say this is the most exciting thread on XDA for me. You guys, along with anyone trying to make video-viewing perfect, are at the frontiers of HTC development and I wish the original designers were as committed as you.

Watching you all closely, good luck!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Ikkari:
I was abel to play FF7 on FpseCE without WVGAfix in Landscape Mode! I got about ~32 FPS, and was abel to run because in Landscape Mode there is a way to Lock the buttons. Just lock the run button and it will be much more playable ^^
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Kizmet:
Hey all, sorry... have been busy for a while sorting life and stuff out.

Quick review and a catch up and I'll be up to speed again. Going to do a little research.. so does anyone know has this problem been solved anywhere else? If not... should really get cracking!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] TheDestroyer:
I didn't find anything like that for windows mobile. To my mind this is the only place all over the internet that is really close to public screen multitouch game keys for Touch HD.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Dredd67:
yep but project seems to be dead... no activies from kizmet or vijay since a long time. Too bad
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] LiKBeAsT:
yes but people are still interested!!

at least i am :)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] allyz:
were i can download this pad for htc hd

thanks
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] lukexda:
There are some pretty big problems with simulating multi touch the way sugested in this thread. I'm developing a game thought that this kind of thing would be ideal for my case. However, I think that in my case, there are too many problems. However, it would probably still be cool to have this pad for the blackstone so sort of play all the currently unplayable games.

The problem is that the point generated by pressing the screen by two buttons is NOT the point exactly half way between the two presses, it can vary greatly depending of various factors.

If you carefull press the screen in 2 places with equal pressure with pointy (but not too pointy) instruments, the point generated is often not exactly on the ceter point. It can be quite a bit out, up down, left or right. It isn't even on the line along the center. This can be accounted for if you callerbrate your multi touch interface to account for this... however, there are more problems.

If you press the screen in 2 positions with pointy instruments, and alter the pressure on each, the point generated will move a bit towards the point with more pressure.

Worse, press 2 positions using fingures, the center point will move a lot towards the figure with more pressure. You can reasonably accuratly control the position of the point with out moving your fingures, just changing pressure.

The user really has to press buttons with roughly equall pressure, and the code has to account for the center point not being in the center. Alternativly, If you don't have many buttons, then maybe you could trace out the lines and make a best guess. However, My game just needs four buttons, and I have mostly given up on this solution now because it is too unrelyable and fiddly to play for a commercial game. Too Bad. I thought this meathod would work perfectly for me, but after implementing it and using it for a long time... I realised its just not worth it in my game.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] TheDestroyer:
Here is a new video that prooves that all hardware buttons can be used for other purposes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbtAs2F0oSs

If there is no multitouch pad, then may be you are able to make a simple game pad (without multitouch) that'll make possible to play worms and others on HD. VGA games have got plenty of place at the bottom for such gamepad. It'll be nice to have such gamepad. May be it will be the first step for multitouch gamepad.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] djboo:
it only took 2 years for people to beleive me ;)

this isnt a ***** - if anything im chuffed!

i actually suggested at this exact solution for multi touch in June 2007 - back when i had Exec!

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=312152

I actually now own two multi touch phones (iphone and mt hacked gphone) - and the only time its really a benefit is games - when a dpad would have been better. Im using the morphgear skin on my TP2 (which ive had for 3 days now) and its brill. its not perfect and id deffo prefer a real dpad - but wow - im loving the hacking part of it - and who doesnt like to be proven right ;)

would would be truely awesome is some how to 'tell' when its more than one button - like some pressure or some other hint
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Zooby:
I made a multi touch genesis pad a couple days back but I wasn't fully happy with the response I got in testing.

The theory that it hits the middle point is fine but when you're actually using your fingers and thumb to play your point of pressure for your thumb is usually slightly off because of how you hold the pad.

So I decided to offset the picture for the pad slightly from the actuall buttons.

The result was great.

I can now confidently pull off moves in street fighter 2 on the snes, did a jumping kick in to hurricane in to shoryuken combo in my test... doesn't get much better than that :>

Now obviously this pad works well for me because of how I hold the pad, others may not have the same experience and honestly I don't think we'll ever have a reliable one size fits all pad because of the size of the screen.

unless we stop using morphgear that is.

but for now try this one I put together, it works comfortably and reliably for me, and not all games need every button. (sonic and mario are a good example).
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] Ap0cAl1pS:
i think that even with all the problems said above it can still be possible to use the MT 'emulation' on HD. the only real problem is when you need to have more then 2 or 3 bottons to answer with the D pad.

D+2 = no problem

D+3 = still no problem if you scather them in your screen

D+4 = middle area begins to be too small to get some accurancy

But well HD was not meant to have MT so all that is done already is nice achievement.

best regards.

Ap0c
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] TheDestroyer:
Sorry for offtopic, but is there any app, that can emulate real hardware buttons, missing on Touch HD, for example to be able to play Worms on it? Worms game doesn't feel any button on this device. Some other games missing emulation of this buttons as well. There is a plenty of free space to put the screen pad because of VGA resolution of the games.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] EZI8:
Problems installing gamepad

Hi, I have a touch hd (WM 6.1) and I tried to install many different gamepads for use with morphgear many times but I just can't seem to make it work. I have done all the steps. Put both bmp and txt file in the 'skins' folder, have got all the right settings at the global and snes settings. Each time I only have ONE gamepad (bmp + txt) in the folder. But when I go to 'skin' in the snes settings, in the drop down list it only gives me 'MorphGear Default'. I have tried everything, searched everywhere but I can't find a solution. It's very frustrating so any help is very appreciated. Thanks!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] matevone:
[QUOTE = Jim_Fear; 3392978] Някой трябва да направи нещо подобно за Touch HD ...

http://www.icontrolpad.com/

Да разбира се това е много good.is има нещо подобно за HTC HD
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] ronp76:
After reading 14 pages, I almost hate to ask. . .but, is there any consensus on this? Yea or nay?
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] scilor:
Beware, this won't work on the HTC Leo/HD2 due to the resitive Touchscreen
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] HarVester23:
14 pages of reading... no clearly answer :) Its Over? or You all hacks need some new ideas...? ;)
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] sschrupp:
What answer are you looking for? The game pad that you can download on the first post works pretty good. It's not perfect, and probably not great with games that require lots of buttons at once. But there are a ton of games that this gamepad works just fine with.

To get any better would require a miracle from your local deity. Only so much can be done with the hardware.

So, if you've read 14 pages and don't know what's going on it's simple:

Download the gamepad on the first post and play games using the Morphgear emulators!
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] bong4316:
There is nothing on the first page to download

Or maybe there was something to download on the first page but its gone now.
[Touch HD Themes and Apps] RDilus:
just buy a wii remote and connect over bluethoot problem solved!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] paddy23:
i the new htc diamond 2 and htc pro 2 is coming.

my queiston is will the actual htc diamond suport the final version of windows mobile 6.5?:cool:
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] liamhere:
6.5 beta

is out on diamond already....if you used the search button you would have known this.

thread closed.
[Networking] Glideh:
Does it exist one for WindowsMobile ?
[Networking] yyue830:
no

no have
[Networking] deedee:
Have people on here developed an allergy to Google just recently? :):)

Had a good day so here's alink to one of the many results GoodFTP.

Please don't expect hand holding every time.
[Networking] Glideh:
Thanx, yes I forgot to specify that I generaly prefere

free solutions. Each time I searched in Google for

windows mobile softwares, I found commercials.
[Networking] deedee:
Your point being?

We all prefer something for nothing, GoodFTP is free, and was on the first page of my Google search. Second item when searching for "Window Mobile FTP client".
[Networking] Glideh:
Indeed, this Client seems good.

I'm not able to connect to a server with it,

but it should be my supplier which closes the port :(
[Networking] bmo.alt:
Just get the excellent TotalCommander (Search this forum) or Google it. In the root diretory, there is a plugin for FTP. That plus many other tools makes TC a worthwhile replacement for the native file explorer..
[Networking] Glideh:
For sure I already have TotalCommander (who doesn't)

I didn't know that it has a plugin for FTP

I will try it, thanks
[Networking] Zeno2:
FTP client for WM

The best one:

NSC Noisette Software Corporation GetIt FTP 3.0- full featured with SSL

Others:

Cambridge Computer Corporation vxFtp 2.1.2

NSC Noisette Software Corporation CedeFTP Client 2.5 - no SSL

Orneta FTP Explorer Mobile 2.1.0

PortaPlus FTP Client 4.1

SoftX FTP Client 2.4

Vieka PE Ftp Explorer

FTP client part in RescoExplorer 7.05
[Networking] Glideh:
Thank you Zeno2