yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Titus_Andronicus:
Thank you Thank you. Looking forward to the updates via AppToDate!!

As for donaiting, Tom has said on several ocasions in these 250+pages that he would like donations made to xda-developers. So go ahead and donate away. Maybe drop Tom a message telling he that you donated so that he will know how much he is appreciated.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] airone2:
Tom is my hiro, eh..Hero;-)

on the topic of discussing GCZII on groundspeak, I've tried that trick twice the last couple of days.

the first thread was shut down, and in the second,

( forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=240017 ),

I got several angry emails from the moderators because I mentioned GCZII by name.

Now, the thread is already there, so If You would like to tell GS that you want a decent winmo app for geocaching, I suggest you voice your oppinion in that thread.

Just remember, Tom's name is ok to mention, but not GCZII, so to avoid shuting down this thread as well, dont write GCZII:-)

@Tom,

it seems like the only problem GS has with GCZII, is the way GCZII collects the data from GS. would it be possible to make it the way GS wants it, and maybe GCZII can get an official approval from GS?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Sweeney Toddlers:
_____________________
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mashe:
thx for the link, I doubt it will do any good, after what I red in that, but ... it's worth of trying ...

i just hope that this issue will be solved, because the GCz II is just a great program, and I don't like the idea of losing it and I am definitely not going to buy extra device to be able to play ...

and as for donating .. no problem, for as long as it works :-D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] zephxiii:
Thanks Tom! I agree with many above posts. I really don't want to use anything other than GCzII for geocaching, not even the groundspeak iphone app.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mashe:
I ma sorry but .. can you pls let me know what exactly is the problem and why it doesn't work, or why is the ground-speak acting as it is?

because as mentioned in here http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=&showtopic=240017&view=findpost&p=4195237 this almost look as discrimination of WM users. when iPhone came there suddenly appears iPhone app, and there appears already a support for Android. and yet WM is for some time on the market and it almost looks to me as sort of discrimination ..

perhaps it would be more interesting to find some proper forum within microsft and get it in to their's attention as the WM discrimination .. for it is easy to ignore few PM members, but to ignore creator of WM OS .. well .. that might be interesting to watch :-D

GCz may be not the official software from MS, but so far I haven't find any other to use on my HTC, not to mention that the only usable WIG player is open-source, etc ... but perhaps I am just tooo paranoid :-D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] PrimitivePerson:
Yup - screen-scraping violates the TOS, because it apparently strains the servers, hence GS getting very shirty if you mention the app on their forums. I doubt it really causes them much trouble, though, and I'm pretty sure that no-one has been banned for using the program - I very much doubt that they can detect its use.

With GCz II out of action, I've tried the Geocaching Live app on my TyTN II. It just about works, and seems to gather the data without any trouble, but it's a fiddly and not very user friendly program and I'm only going to use it until we get the GCz fix. It seems to have some rather stupid flaws - I don't see any way of posting found logs from it, which is one of the things I love about GCz. I log my finds from my phone as soon as I've found them, and hardly ever go onto the geocaching website at all.

So...clearly Geocaching Live pulls the info out of the website in an officially-sanctioned way, and I think that would have to be the best way to go for GCz - emulating that method of data acquisition, but with the user interface we know and love. I'll echo what others have said - GCz II is the easiest and most comprehensive Geocaching program I have ever come across, and it's a joy to use. I really hope that some way can be found to get it officially sanctioned, because it's become a killer app for me.

Lee
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] PrimitivePerson:
It's the same everywhere - people are busting a gut to develop for the iPhone because it has a "sexy" image and it's popular (despite actually being a lousy product, and less capable than most of the current crop of WinMo devices).

I don't think Groundspeak is discriminating against WM - I just think WM has a pretty small market share, as the phones don't have the "sex appeal" of the iPhone. That said, a lot of cachers in the UK like WM because of Memory Map, an absolutely superb mapping application that works a treat for caching...but relies on GPX downloads, and therefore lacks a huge amount of the functionality that GCz has.

I'd be happy if the "official" Groundspeak product for WM, Geocaching Live, was developed further and nicked some ideas from GCz, but they don't seem in any hurry to get it working properly, and it's full of annoying foibles and has lots of features missing that should be there.

Lee
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] chrysdm:
Thanks Tom.

I've tried quite a number of other PDA Geocaching apps and non of them are anywhere near as good as your. You've done a fantastic job. Keep up the good work!

Am looking forward to GCz working properly again.

Will watch nicque eagerly for an update.

Chrys
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mashe:
go to YOUR GPS, and search for HTC .. there are a lot's of users with HTC just a few examples .. as per http://www.geocaching.com/reviews/gps_htc

- Diamond - (261 Reviews | 1401 Owned)

- Kaiser - (242 Reviews | 1217 Owned)

- Touch HD - (209 Reviews | 1082 Owned)

- etc ....

that is not such a small number I think ;)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ryaske:
I voiced my opinion on that thread, threatening to cancel my monthly geocaching membership

I encourage any other users of GCzIII to voice their opinion on there.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] gus_tav:
Cache not found.

One day i should schearch for cash i got this message "Cach not found". Im using TD2 with GCzII 0.2.35.35. I does not matter what place im serching for or what serach option. Is there some buffer as are full or something? I can still load my saved cashlists.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] fastcatcher:
@ gus-tav:

If you would read the messages above (starting at page 245) you would get an answer to your question! It's all about this subject!!!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mashe:
I have already done so, it is just that my IGN in GC is Orxion as Mashe was already taken when I registred ;)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] m_s_ifland:
I did as well, and I will not renew my subscription if they don't do something about this.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mashe:
it is interesting to watch the date of registration and number of posts on groundspeak, several of them are several years old, and yet have their first post in GCz topic :-D

i think the main issue is to let people know that there is such a forum on GS and let's pray for Tom and his work -this part might actually be difficult for me being atheist :-))))
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Warpgate:
I'm no expert in any of this, but if the iphone version has access to an API or a special URL to get its data feed, would not reversing this be of value?

If someone has an iphone and the app, could it be setup so that it connects via wifi to that users access point and capcha what is transmitted and received for some of the lookups ? if the WM version acted and talked to the GC server in the same way an iphone did they would not be able to stop it by altering the website design?

Please don't jump on me as I have little knowledge in how it would be done but just a theory?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] dreamfalcon:
I was thinking the same thing.

But the connections should be made using HTTPS, and I'm no expert, but don't think you can see the data.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] mar-ine:
Tom

I hope you find a way.

Thanks already.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] PrimitivePerson:
I can understand everyone's frustrations with all of this - only now have I realised how good GCz II is, now I'm deprived of it. I was out travelling today and attempted to cache using Geocaching Live and BeeLine GPS. I soon gave up in frustration. Us Windows Mobile users really do need some better support.

However...I'd be very careful about berating Groundspeak over this, especially by mentioning GCz II by name in geocaching forums. We don't have that much of a right to get upset with them for doing something that stops GCz II from working - because it's a program that breaks the TOS in its current form. I think we've been lucky that they've tolerated it being out there, and if forums are swamped with people complaining about GCz II no longer working, we may see them take further action, like legally trying to prevent Tom distributing future versions. They may not like GCz II, or people talking about it, but so far they seem to turn a blind eye to people using it, as long as they don't talk about it to much. That seems fair enough to me.

I also don't think there's any conspiracies here - they've changed the site layout, but I'm sure they didn't break GCz II on purpose. But then, of course, they're not going to make changes so it works again.

I think we need to look at the changes that have stopped GCz II working and the wider issue of WinMo support at GS as two completely separate issues. If I were you, I'd make a big deal out of the latter, but keep very quiet about the former.

Lee
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] djstern:
First of all, I'm not a big fan of Jerimy or his dictatorial attitudes. I think he's an a-hole. That being said, I run a number of web sites my self.

I can not believe all the cry's about discrimination! There is no favoritism for iphone or android. The apps for those platforms don't rely on scraping GC. GCz does scrape. Why is that a problem. Simple, the bandwidth to download 500 full pages is a great deal more than the same 500 caches in a GPX file. That's one heck of a load on the servers. That's why most sites, not just GC don't allow scraping. GC takes millions of page hits on a regular bases. Regardless of what you want to think, that is a heck of a load on any server.

As many of you have said, there aren't any other good caching programs out there. It's the programmers that decide what platforms (iphone, android, wm) to write a program for. GC doesn't tell them what programs to write or what platforms to write for. Are you going to blame groundspeak for the fact that programmers aren't writing the programs you want? That's just plain silly!

Tom already has a lot invested in the current design of his program. I'm sure he wasn't aware of GS's TOS when he wrote the program. I now I wasn't when I made a few mis-steps in the past. Now that he has it'll take a bit of work to redesign the back end to gather information differently. That's not something that will happen in a few days. It most likely won't be able to be done till the next major version release.

In the mean time, lets all try not feeling sorry for our selves just because every programmer out there isn't writing the programs we want and give Tom a chance to fix the program properly. I am very thankful that Tom has taken the time to write this program and hope he can find the time to redesign the back soon. How ever long it takes, I'll wait and be thankful to Tom when it is released.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] xhozt:
djstern

No i WILL blame GC/groundspeeak for not opening the API that Iphone programers they HAVE been favoring the iphone and android by allowing them a API access and leaving us with GPX files only per the TOU .. if GC opens up the API great ill send them $$$ till then .. tom u da man ;-)

I have run a few sites too and frankly scraping does eat up bandwidth ,,, if done badly .. toms software seems to really do it cleanly and with no more requests than if i accessed the site from my phone on its own .
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Titus_Andronicus:
You seem to be missing the point. People are not complaining that programers arn't programing for WM. They are complaining that GS wont open up the API to any WM programers. That essentialy leaves WM programers with 2 choices. Make an app that is essentialy like a stand alone GPSr (that is crappy and lots of manual work for the user), or do screen scraping (against TOS). As for bandwidth (BW), GCzII uses less BW than than if I was using Opera Mobile to get the same info. And lets face it, no one downloads 500 pages using GCzII. There realy would be no reason for it. With PQs, it is needed because you have to get every cache you may end up finding in the entire area you are going to be caching in. With GCzII you mostly just download the ones you are actualy going to search for, and a few you are considering.

I was talking the the programer of BasicGPS the other day. He wont even add a "copy screen content to clipboard" feature from the WAP.geocaching.com page. He is convinced that GS will bring legal action against him if he does. I don't see that as screen scraping, but I guess I am not the authority.

Maybe it is a realy good thing that Tom lives in Japan....
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] fastcatcher:
Thanks Titus - I you hit exactly the point!!!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] salam64:
Tom, if possible, could the scrapping templates be placed as editable text files within the program directory? This way, others would be able to adjust for the changes themselves. Saying, that scraping takes BW is not in place. If I take my notebook with me and share internet connection, then it is OK? And downloading same content to PDA is bad? :eek:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] nimda79:
Yea currently I am in a battle of will's against the mod mtn-man on geocaching's website over the fact that mentioning GCzII and other programs would be better if they opened an API, but he's an iPhone user and has no idea what kinda pain points we are talking about.

He's deleting posts based on the fact that GCzII name is used in them because it's a TOU violation according to him, even though there is no specific rule that states you can't talk about it, only that you cannot USE the program. I am sure eventually he will give up...otherwise this post is gonna be funny as heck. I invite anyone on here to join in on the fun...before he get's frustrated and locks the thread.

Check it :D

h t t p://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=240256
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] :
@nimda79:

seems your thread over there has been deleted.

Maybe the only way to convince GC.com is to get all WinMo users to avoid their pages.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] airprox:
It's still there, you need to remove the spaces at the begining of the link.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] mar-ine:
Hello,

To everybody who says they want to pay Tom for his great program GCz. I believe there is a donation button on the downloadsite. maybey it is new?

mar-ine
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] derlbear:
Hey there! Where is it?

http://www.nicque.com/PQz/index.htm

http://www.nicque.com/PQz/GCz.htm

Tom always says that we should donate money to xda, but ok.. nice idea... but... hey.. but... he deserves it!

@airprox I can't open that link either although I deleted the spaces.

Cheers,

derlbear
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] nimda79:
no it's still there. IDK why XDA won't let me post links, I have had this profile since 2008.

This is the name of the thread

New Web Site Causes Problems For Mobile Device, A Rude Shock...

under Groundspeak Forums > General Geocaching Discussions > Geocaching.com Web Site
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] fastcatcher:
I couldn't find a donation-button...
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Hylndr:
Not to Muddy the waters...

Hey all WM users out there...

I hope that Tom is working on an update and that we'll hear from him soon, as I think GCzII is that best app out there. However, in the mean time there is an alternative that I found called GateCacher. It apparently scrapes also as it was updated on the 15th to account for the new website site designs at GC.com It works and has a pretty desent looking GUI. So, until Tom lets us all know that an updated version of GCzII is available, here's an alternative...

www "dot" gateway "dot" dds "dot" nl/gatecacher/

Later,

Hylndr
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] mar-ine:
sorry.

it is on xda

when I spotted this, it was late yesterday/night
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Titus_Andronicus:
It is not there. Tom has said to donate to xda-developers if you like his software. As mentioned before, maybe just drop him a e-mail to tell him if you donate to xda-developers so he knows how much you appriciate his efforts.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Titus_Andronicus:
GateCacher is a cool program. Works fairly well. I realy like his calculation engine. Does some cool caclulations that can save you a lot of effort. Definatly a solid second place! I let him know of the changes to geocaching.com on the 13th of Jan, and he had the fix in on the 15. Prety good turnaround!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] del4:
Yes, when asked, Tom has said repeatedly that we should donate to XDA. So, I did, which is how I got that pretty gold star next to my name up above. :D

For all the posts I've seen about donation links and promises to donate if only Tom will provide an update, I'm not seeing any 'gold stars' indicating people are putting their money where their mouth is. Come on, people, follow through and donate! :mad:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] xhozt:
weekends coming soon tom will be on it then per his last post ;-)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] bigzdog:
Is anyone currently able to use gatecacher?

I can't add any caches. It tells me to try again whether I type in by cache code or by coordinates.

Did geocaching.com change their site again?

Thanks for GCZII it has always worked well for me.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mashe:
by the way, if to problem is within the changed TOU, would't it be possible just to change the source to http://wap.geocaching.com it looks the same. altough it is useless for multi, etc .. but .. for the rest (like logs of TB/GC, or logs itself) it would do.

but I am no programmer, so got no idea if that could work :-D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Hylndr:
At 11:40 Eastern Time (US). Yes, I can use GateCacher. I just tried and got good data...

Hylndr.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] fastcatcher:
I tried GateCacher on my HTC TD2. It seems to have some potential but I had quite some problems using it ( for e.g. I couldn't zoom into the map and I couldn't quit the programm without switching my phone off). Maybe it's not compatible with WM 6,5? The impressing part was, that this programm was able to use LIVE-data from GC.

I would like to stay with GCz if I have the choice.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] nimda79:
If it allowed you to show all caches like GCzII does on the map instead of just one at a time, it would be more usable to me. On my HTC Touch Pro2 the scroll bar on the caches is impossible to use with your finger and the zoom on the map has the same problem. And I miss the ability to log my find right there.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] nsa_sailor:
I didn't know GCzII did that. How do you get it to do that?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] nimda79:
When you have your list of caches from your search up on the screen click menu on the bottom and I believe it says "Show on Map" or something to that effect and it will switch to google maps displaying all of the caches that are currently displayed on the map.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Titus_Andronicus:
I use gatecacher on my winmo 6.5 phone (HTC Vogue). Works fine. Only problem I have is that the text doesn't wrap, so I am always havting to scroll left and right.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Titus_Andronicus:
At time of posting (0845h MST (I think that is 1545h GMT) GateCacher is working on my HTC Vogue running Windows Mobile 6.5.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] nsa_sailor:
Cool feature. Never knew that existed. On my phone it's called "Google Map".
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] airprox:
Looks like it may be all over now... GS's Legal department is now involved.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] fastcatcher:
I take this as a positive sign, that Groundspek is willing to do something. Hopefully they finally can come up with a solution for the WinMo-platform!

Hopefully it means that the application developer is Tom Hiro and hopefully GC is smart enough to use his programm in the future!!!

Here is the post from Bryan (the legal counsel from GC). You can find the whole thread under:

h t t p://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=240017

"I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application. "
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] athmoss:
Tom, could you confirm that Groundspeak contacted you and you are working on a solution?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] dreamfalcon:
I doubt Tom is going to answer this while they don't get into an agreement.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] jllbee:
AS to the Donations

Since Tom does not want it, Why not set up a account to buy advertising on GC site or Purchase the API rights from GC. We could all donate to it.

Just Thinking....... :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] jllbee:
and since i was thinking.....

the caches do not belong to GC, so why could'nt someone start another site that would support GCzII. they need a little competition, don't they?

oh well, back to work.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] airprox:
Unfortunately, the way GS works, I suspect this is going to be more of a "cease and desist" order, than "we'd like to work with you" meeting.

EDIT: Just re-read the post from the lawyer, and I'm a bit more hopeful about it, the terminology isn't as negative as I thought on first reading. Here's hoping!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] noellenchris:
GeoScout is another program I bought and use. It's pretty good, but not as friendly as GCZII. There are several apps out there that charge for their programs and haven't been shut down. GCZII has always been free, so I don't think the threat from Geocaching.com will be that great. Good luck Tom and let us know if we can help in any way.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] :
- I wonder that Tom hasn't confirmed the contact with the lawyer. I only know this from "cease and desist" notices where you have to be absolutely calm about the process until it is finished.

- I don't think Tom will fly over to the USA. He has no time to answer realtime in this forum nor work on his source.

- I don't think the lawyer will fly over to Japan to meet Tom. GCzII (glad to be able to name it here :D) is a too small problem for Groundspeak to pay for this.

So my opinion is: they sue Tom's ass to hell. They did ignore us as long we were just a wart on their ass. In the past we did not have any problem: Groundspeak changed the site, Tom modified his code, all did work again, no problem. Now Tom has not that much time, we all poked Groundspeak with a stick, and now the Dragon is awakened.

I don't think they are willing to cooperate after all these years of ignorance.

But i hope...
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] bigzdog:
Tom is from Japan?

What kind of authority do US laws have over there besides asking nicely?