yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ptgptg:
Typically, my battery would be at about 70-75%. Sometimes even less, without rhyme or reason.

I can also report that I charged my phone this morning at the office and left with 100% charge. I was out of the office for most of the morning, with push mail on all the time. Got back, did not charge my phone. Left again. Bluetooth phone calls and push mail. I am now at 51%. Usually, I would be down around 30%.

You should note, however, that I cannot tell for sure because I do not know how much usage I had today compared to other days.

I wish there was a battery meter that could log it and really tell me my usage and battery with some degree of accuracy.

Let me know if I can do anything to help.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Bennieficial:
i know this might be a dumb question...but does the jump from 3G to 2G have a big impact on call reception/quality? or does this only affect data connnections? like using the internet?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
@ptgptg

Thanks for the added info!

@Bennieficial

Generally this only affects the data connection

@Baxxx

I am looking at the 'background app' stuff right now. I think we will indeed be going with a timer or something which detects whether the app has been idle for a while and is not on the foreground.

As to your question about the radio itself does the switch, that is unknown. I understand what you mean with your question though, unfortunately I'm afraid that only a HTC/Samsung engineer could tell exactly how this works and how to do it from the main CPU instead of the radio. Changing the bands from the control panel works the same way as WMLL does it, but other band switch apps use a less good method.

@Keland44

I do not think this will work on a BlackJack (II). How to do the switching is chipset dependant. "Luckily", a lot of devices these days use MSM chipset which is supported. The switching for Omnia and i780 is different due to their PXA chipset. BlackJack (II) uses OMAP - while it is possible that Samsung has the RIL implemented the same way, I somewhat doubt it. You are welcome to try, though!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ptgptg:
Another report concerning battery level. I was out of the office all day today (from 8AM). I started with 100% battery level. I had activesync connected the whole time (at least 60 emails). I was on the phone for a little more than 1 hour and I had bluetooth on all day. I typed on my phone for about 45 minutes. It is now 6:11PM and I have 33% battery left.

Anecdotal or not, this little program clearly extends the life of my battery significantly. By this time, I would usually have little to no battery life left.

For your information, I am running RRE final 4 no opera and radio 1.08.25.20.

This really has extended my battery life. Thanks, Chainfire.

Oterh than reporting, please let me know if I can be of assistance. Regards,
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ptgptg:
Oh, and I have Opera installed. I would also note that even without Opera ruinning, I did look at my phone several times and saw 3G coverage.

Chainfire, according to your first post, that's not supposed to happen, right?

Is there something else forcing it into 3G?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Bennieficial:
i downloaded this on my xperia x1 and can confirm that it works fine. great job, keep up the good work!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] jromep07:
is this gonna work on my dopdod838pro!!! tnx
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Goldry:
I'm currently running 0.2 on my Raphael. I've noticed something a bit counterintuitive: when I turn on WiFi the change from 2G to 3G still takes place when I start Opera. Is it easy to sense when WiFi is on and not make the swiitch?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Anolnx:
Touch Cruise

I made a test with my Polaris, the thing goes fine.

Opera detected, switched to HSDPA, but the time taken made Opera mad. Had to wait a little, then to go to the adress bar and to type "enter" so that the page loads. Well, a way to make Opera re-ask for the page would do the trick I think.

Surf done, Opera closed, screen off, all this was perfect detected and the Polaris was back in 2G mode.

This cute app looks promising.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Anolnx:
Well, wifi could be on but no network active (i.e. with program such as Navizon). It'd be better to detect if a network connection is active through Wifi. A ping or a DNS request to an Internet IP through the Wifi interface would do the job.

The thing is: I have no idea if it is possible to send a DNS request through a specific interface when using DHCP to get the NS IP.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
@all

I'm going to update the known working devices list on the first page a bit. Please check if your device is listed there.

Also I'm going to look at the effects of not switching directly to 2G, but switching HSDPA on/off instead.

We'll look into it together soon... Config app will give you way to show the 'reasoning' of the current mode (or something similar)

Thanks for the info :)

I have no idea. It's again a different chipset. MSM version may work, as it's all HTC stuff so they may have kept the internal interfaces the same. Samsung variant may work, because it uses a Samsung chip. I doubt any of the versions will work, but you can always try :)

Good one, I'll try keeping this into consideration for next time (I personally don't use wifi to access internet, so didn't think about it)

Also looking into delaying the API used by Opera (and other programs) to make the connection. At first glance it looks fairly impossible to make this happen, but I'll research this further.

I think I'll just check wether wifi is connected to a network through the normal API means and leave it at that :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Just been working on that wifi-detection and background apps. Seems the development version now has both working correctly. Not quite sure when I will make an update, perhaps there will be one before the service version (seems too many things I want to implement that test better in non-service version).
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] noellenchris:
checking the page regularly..waiting to test next version. Thanks for all your work.:D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Shees, in my quest to make it so Opera (and other apps) don't bork on load, I've disassembled half of WM, discovered 12 ways that won't work, tried several ways that should work but because of common bugs (i.e. you are supposed to make a certain call, but nobody does) will not do so in reality, and tore out half my hair. I'm inclined to call it a night!

(WM development... always missing the things you need!)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] g2tl:
gonads>hair

fair tradeoff

o/t aside, I think an update before the service version is a great idea, since I'm sure a lot of us know enough to just let it run and not get freaked out when we see a bunch of text that make no sense.

HTC should buy this from you
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] bbf:
Are these current readings? If so, they should be in mA not mAh, since static and spike sound like things that describe what's happening time wise... intrinsically spike means not for long, so I assume these are current measurements.

So according to this data if it is current, that means if your 3G connection is transferring data more than twice as fast as your 2G connection, *not* running this program will actually save you more energy because energy is POWER * TIME.

I only say this because with Bluetooth 2.0 vs 1.2, 2.0 uses *less* energy because eventhough the amount of power needed for the same on-time duty cycle is higher for 2.0, but because of the faster transfer speed of 2.0, the RF transmitter needs to be on for much less duty cycle than for 1.2, therefore actually for a Bluetooth headset, one with a 2.0 chipset actually uses less energy than a 1.2 since the RF section is on for a shorter amount of time.

I would think that this program would be most useful for people that live in fringe 3G coverage areas, with good 2G coverage and transfer quite a bit of data each probe. Else if 3G coverage is superb, using this program may end up using more energy.

Are there any users that have done any more controlled tests?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Aside from nitpicking about mA or mAh (about which you are of course correct), most of your argument sounds good at first glance, and that is how it should be too - 3G theoretically uses less power/kb/s than 2G. Unfortunately, in reality other factors come into play.

Just keeping the connection active, without transferring actual data, 3G may use 5 times as much power as 2G. For some tests on that see the original thread (which was actually about radiation, while this is more about power saving) referenced in the first post of this thread. The big problem is connections are kept active even when not used, and that is where the real power drain is probably at.

When you keep your device on the desk or in your pocket, in the background it will often wake up and do things with your data connection, like check mail. Compared to the time the connection is up, the data transferred (its power used) may actually be insignificant to that of keeping the connection itself. Due to the way WM works, these connections are active much longer than they are actually used.

For example I myself here have excellent 5 bar 3G coverage. When I run this it saves me about 40-50% in battery life (so *1.4 total life). Not a small feat.

I do want to back this up with well-tested measurement data but that'll take a load of time (eventually, though). Just FYI, mA measurements reported by the devices themselves can be wildly inaccurate and severely delayed, if not plain inconsistent. However, the other way to test it is to run it with and without the setup for a long time and keep meticulous track of charging and usage. And that won't be really accurate either. There's not really a good way to test this other than run it a few days, see how it compares for yourself with normal usage.

Of course, the usefulness is also related heavily to how you use the device. If you don't have several mail accounts set to check pretty often or use push mail, or other things that may update in the background, etc, it's likely the difference will be little to none. The same if you waste most of your power watching YouTube. However, for the more 'serious or business' user there can definitely be a large difference. Absolute worst case scenario, it may cost more power, however I sincerely doubt the chance of this occurring is very large, if it ever occurs at all.

By the way, you should note that though I am happy to receive your comments and thoughts, this is likely the only time I will go into this semi-in-depth. I've wasted more of my life than I want to elaborate upon on pointless bickering about such things. Test it, try it, if it doesn't work for you, explain the situation/usage and throw some numbers :) (not saying you are one of those peoples, just covering my ass)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] kabtv:
do you think that your app can works on a Trinity ?

it look fantastic...!!! :eek:
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] bbf:
Take a chill pill.

Don't take everything personally.

I was just asking if anybody did some controlled tests since most of data in this thread has been anecdotal, except for the post I responded to.

Note that 3G uses CDMA which uses more energy to en/decode. From what I've read, the actual transmitted power is the same for 2G and 3G (same RF section), but the actual nature of the transmission is different as well (CDMA uses more energy).

BTW, The difference between mA and mAh is not nit-picking. If the values were actually mAh it would point to a 50% decrease in energy usage for the full period since the phone was charged, which is extremely significant.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] noellenchris:
I meant mA, and typed MaH... I just bought another battery and had mah on my mind. The test was a quick test not very long...just observations. I also typed kinda fast since I spent a lot of time typing it the first time and my connection at work dropped. So I was a little peeved and just quickly typed out a snippet of the info so others could see my observations.

but thanks for clearing up ma and mah for the readers.

In my case this APP will save me quite a bit of batter, my exchange service is just set up to d/l about 10k and headers....If I want to d/l attachments etc, I will ensure 3g is on. Otherwise I don't need to have 3g on while my phone sits on my desk at work recieving email headers..

Can't wait to try your latest Chainfire..Thanks a ton for your interest and work. Take care..

Chris:D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] glamprecht:
I studied GSM & WCDMA radio and NW architecture. There are too many variables in the system to make any controlled tests. Quite frankly the network controls more than your phone does. The network controls are influenced also by many factors or loads that has nothing to do with your phone. Here are a few facts.

1. WCDMA (3G) and GSM certainly does not use the same RF circuitry, but it may use the same chip. So there is no way that power usage could be the same.

2. There are supposed to be more WCDMA Node B's than GSM BTS's since GSM range is much more than WCDMA, basically because of frequency, however: MO's tend to maximise their high-site utilisation and often WCDMA sites correspond to GSM sites where the distances are therefore equal. Now 900MHz certainly requires less power than 2100 MHz over the same distance.

3. Power level control on WCDMA is much more critical obviously for CDMA to work properly so WCDMA tend to settle on higher transmit levels than GSM because of the higher noise floor.

4. WCDMA does require a lot more processing than GSM and the more complex SDR in HSDPA requires even more processing power.

5. In my country the LAC boundaries and LAC updates are less on WCDMA than GSM, but this differs so much from area to area that it is completely unpredictable. So in this instance WCDMA would also tend to use a bit more to do location updates.

In short it is totally improssible to emperically proof power usage amongst GSM and 3G. Even if you put two exact phones next to each other your test would mean nothing due to all the variables involved.

However there are many reasons why 3G is likely to consume more power in dedicated mode. In idle mode I can be convinced either way.

Remember that when you dont use GPRS the data and signalling channels are deallocated to preserve time slots. In 3G this is not always necessary since spreading codes can dynimically decrease in size to accomodate more ME's.

This application is great for me because my service provider still have some bugs in their UMTS/GSM handover logic and I have calls dropped if I stay on 3G the whole time.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ZeuBug:
Doesn't work on my Touch HD! Stay in 2G (Edge) all the time...(the same with opera, with blank start page etc...)

Impossible to have 3G until we go to start/settings/phone/band.

Before a fix, how to disable WMLongLife permanently, please? :confused:

But thanks for this app! :) very good idea!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
@all

Next release is again going to be a bit longer. I've still not turned it into a service (easier to test things when it's not a service), however I have devised a way to delay loading while switching bands and a better way to detect when apps start and exit - using less cycles. However this does require a lot of testing and coding to pull off :)

@chris

Soon my friend... as soon as possible it will be out :)

@glamprecht

Thanks for the info man!

@ZeuBug

Right now it only works when you have the application running. If you close it (not just minimize) it stops doing anything. So to make sure it's not running if you don't run a task manager, just soft-reset your device. You may need to manually switch back to 3G using the band setting you mentioned yourself.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] ZeuBug:
Thanks! :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] matsar:
This is a great app. I'm using it on my HTC Touch Diamond and love it. However, I'm after a while the app stops running (no longer in the task manager). Not sure why, probably WM memory management closing it down or something. Is it possible to have it running all the time?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] jug6ernaut:
so how is WWLL coming along chainfire?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Not fast :) Been trying to get that better method for app detection and preventing the connect method, but seems MSDN is deceiving me and things do not really work as advertised :(

Seems every attempt I make to fix those issues results in a fail. Might have to go back to the drawing board on that part of the app.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] wg5566:
Chainfire, don't frustrate, just keep up your work. This is great, I'm sure pda makers, operators as well as endusers will all welcome this if you can get it running without problems.

Here I have some suggestions from a non-pro point of view:

1. Up to now you're concentrating on monitoring apps. Why not change the way to monitor internet connection itselves.?

As a pda user, whenever I lauch a internet connection, I want it fast and stable. So is it possible to set your program to monitor a specified internet connection(like the default connection), instead of monitoring the in-and-outs of apps? Whenever that specified connection is lauched, switch the band to 3g. Doesn't care how many apps are running in or out, or what is their names. See if you lauch opera, only to browse the pages saved in your card, it doesn't need a internet connection at all if the main page is set to blank.

2. As I mentioned, whenever I (specially manually) lauch a internet connection, I want it fast AND STABLE. But in some cases the phone always automatically switch between 2g and 3g, which makes the connection very UNSTABLE. So I suggest your program switch to the WCDMA mode instead of the AUTO mode. While when a 3g network is unavailablle, just give a notification, or even without note just switch back to 2g.

3. People using pushmails may set the pushmail apps to another connection. Like just creat a new connection with all same parameters but using a different name of connection, which is not monitored by the WMLL. I'am not using pushmail and don't know whether it is possible..

4. Another issue for STABLE, is it possible to detect a dead connection? And then disconnect it and reconnect it?

The above is from a noob and non-pro, so I don't know whether these are technically possible.. But as a common user I do not like to make much settings by myself. I would rather the program once installed and do the first settings and never touch it again forever, it will run by himself So if the WMLL set to monitoring the internet connection, I don't need to do the settings again in case I installed a new internet required program.

Another idea just generated. Is it possible to insert it in the specific internet connection settings, then it just does not actually need monitoring?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] wg5566:
As you can see above is my first post on the site.;)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] kothrud123:
not working on Fuze stock ROM

It switched to Edge as soon as I run it and won't switch back to 3G no matter if I start GoogleMaps, youtube or Opera. Any suggestions?

edit: I take that back. It works great after softreset on the Fuze stock ROM. i tested today and got about 15-20% more juice out of the battery with heavy use.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] afehn:
Im using this on HTC Trinity(p3600), and it seems as soon as I start the app it switches me to 2G. When I run Opera I see it try to switch to 3G but it fails and stays on 2G.

The problem seems to be that when switched to Auto mode my device will use the network type it was previously set to.

So setting network type to GSM works fine and limits it to 2G. However to get 3G back on the trinity you cant just set network type to Auto and allow the phone to use 3G if available. The only way I can move from 2G back to 3G is to change the network type to WCDMA first and then change network type to Auto. This has the effect that if 3G is avalilable it will be used otherwise it will Auto switch to 2G.

Hope this info helps.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] lastnikita:
it's been a while, any news ? :)

On my samsung omnia, it did switch the 2G/3G fine, but the connection timeout didn't work..

I also think the best would be 2 connections: 2G and 3G with only 3G monitored by WMLL.

Well if it's possible at all, but I guess a few apps won't allow you to choose the connection used.. It's still a good idea.

Keep the good work dude, you rock !
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Good news everyone!

Good news everyone!

I've finally been able to hack into a part of the system I need to make this work properly. I still need more testing and polish and lots of coding, but it at least seems right now one the biggest problem keeping WMLongLife back has been resolved. So development can move forward. Hurrah!

(And man did it take some hacking :P)

The bad news is that this method will likely need me to rewrite a large portion of the source I got right now, but there will probably be a new (and hopefully awesome) release in a few weeks!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] jug6ernaut:
woho WMLL FTW :D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mandragore:
That sure is good news! Too bad about rewriting the code..
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Further testing reveals it works almost great now :) I'm excited! Let the coding begin!
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] sile87:
I've tested the APP with htc hermes (mda vario 2). 3G to 2G switching works smoothly.. However the step back to 3G won't work. :(
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] wg5566:
Very Good News, Chainfire!

Have been waiting long for it.

Hope this will become another great software from you.

Just to remind please don't miss a Gsm <--> Wcdma switch function. That is highly demanded by those internet-intensive users.

Looking forward to test your new release.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Awesomeness... is awesome!

^^^ = the screen that will be shown the first time a 'new' application connects to the internets. Needs some polish :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Kraize:
O.O

I just came in my pants.

Looks f'ing awesome.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] noellenchris:
Wow, this project is coming along great! Glad to see ya back coding! Ready to test on wm6.5 too.:D
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] stickman:
Any chance we ever see this working?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Thx :) I'm doing the main devving on 6.5 now too. Also testing on 6.1 of course :)

We'll revisit it on the new version. So much has changed, it would be useless to try and figure out what went wrong for him in the old version.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] lastnikita:
looks like one of the best ppc service is coming along nicely, great job !

keep us posted :)
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] alvesd:
__________________________________

This app is awesome, is there any updates. Allowing the user to define app list via txt file would be great.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Yes new version is in development... it will be a while before release though.
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Mr.Sir:
So what does the extra option in the normal com manager do when you switch to 2G?
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] p50kombi:
Can't wait...

Am using 0.2 on a daily basis, run it at every startup...

Any idea when a release of new version is due?

If you need a beta tester, I'll be glad to help out, just drop me a PM.

As said, I've been using 0.2 since goodness knows how long.

Been doing a lot of Beta testing lately, it's my way of helping the developers help us :)

Good work Chainfire....this is starting to look like an absolute winner
[Windows Mobile Apps and Games] Chainfire:
Well we have been working on it quite a bit lately, but there's a lot that still needs to be done and tested. I will probably invite the readers of this thread to a private beta in about two weeks.