yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] slawcop`:
I checked it out as well...wow no wonder!!! You can tell the persons that dont give a damn...look at their post count and or member date. Sad very sad...

I agree and although I am not a chef or an awesome techie either, I try and do my part. I am learning every day, the more I read the more I learn...Knowledge is Power.... Since my tenure here on XDA, I too have been quietly sneaking around in the Hermes, then Kaiser Forums and now in the Raphael forum for the last two weeks. I try to contribute where I can and by doing so hope that I can take some of the work load off you other guys. You guys have been carrying the load for a long time...and although I can not replace you I hope that I can help you and XDA. I even created shortcuts in my signature hoping it would help cut down on the post in the threads.

I see a reoccurring trend...once a new Rom is uploaded by a chef the stupid questions start all over again.... example have you heard this before. Great Rom, but my keys don’t seem to be mapped correctly FN keys being mixed up on the keyboard (! @ : ; " # &. If I never see that question again it will be too soon. It really upsets me when people complain about a certian build a chef made and demand a different one. People post wherever and whatever they like without even looking at the forum rules or searching. To combat this I think the best idea is to do a post count. It would stop all the noobs from clicking on these other websites links to XDA, registering then posting without reading. I do think something needs to be done before we lose even more great people like Laurentis26.

In closing I would like to say thank you to all XDA Senior members and Moderators for what you do. As a public servant, I know how it feels to be unappreciated after spending countless hours of your time helping someone who doesn’t want to help themselves. You become tired, frustrated and want to throw your hands up and quit, we all do, but please don’t. Don’t let them win....:)

With that being said, back when I first joined XDA I was uncomfortable posting anything in the forums….now that I am a little more comfortable I would like to say thank you to some people for helping me when I first started. I know it is very late and long over due, but Big thanks too….Scotchua, P1Tater, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, AlltheWay, Dutthroy and the rest of the XDA Mods and Administrators for what you do.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] P1Tater:
I am going to stick this for the time being. Maybe some will read it and get the HINT.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] diar:
and this is ultimately the crux of the problem. the vast amount of questions generated in these forums is because of the constant updating of ROMs. with new ROMs new features are added, others removed and other functionality is added or broken. and based on the individual setups of thousands of users, there are an unlimited number of questions that result.

manufacturers and carriers solve this issue by releasing one or two updates, tops and MAYBE a few hotfixes. our chefs strive for perfection, which we all appreciate, but encouraging thousands of users to flash new ROMs every few days basically fuels this problem. chefs need to eventually release a FINAL version of their ROMs, where they realize that a few more points on an SPB benchmark or a new dll might not be worth a new ROM.

personally, i'm sick of all the ROM-flashing that i did with my tilt and said so months ago. i've yet to flash my fuze and it's running fine with some of the tweaks i found around here. the result? the number of dumb questions i've asked on these forums has dropped dramatically.:D

UPDATE: just to clarify, after chefs release a final ROM version. they can continue to develop the ROM off-board for those obsessed with continuous development. those ROMs can be distributed publicly, but all questions, concerns, etc. must be handled via e-mail or private message to keep the boards clean.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] AkWizKid:
The Solution

I have been a member long enough to know protocol on this site. As you can clearly see, I am not one to bog down the chefs with all my problems. In the beginning I may have asked dumb qutesions but now I solve most of my issues through a variety of techniques, although I must say that it is not always easy to find the answers. However, I accept the fact that I need to do my part before I ask for help. What must be understood is that without NOOB’s this site would not continue to enjoy new growth. I agree that many dumb questions are asked but angry replies will only disenfranchise new people that could become great members/chefs in the future. I think we have a responsibility to mentor new people or at least guide them in the right direction in the very beginning. After that, they are on their own. With that in mind, I propose two solutions.

1. When a new members signs up, they receive their confirmation e-mail with a link leading them to a tutorial of how to use the site, expected behavior, posting rules, etc. They should complete this before being allowed to post.

2. The simplest fix would be to charge people a one-time membership fee ($10-$20). This would eliminate the vast majority of unwanted NOOB’s yet it is cheap enough to keep interested people signing up. If you put a dollar value behind what this site does, people will recognize it and take it more seriously. Perhaps the site could do some type of profit sharing with the TOP chefs (sorry if that sounds like a reality show).

Please know that I am extremely grateful to all the geniuses out there who have helped and continue to help me personally. In the end, this is a problem only the moderators can fix. Hopefully they are listening.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] xECK29x:
Now I know my post count is really low and don't talk much and can't contribute as much as I would love to, but I truly love the technology and phones in general.

That said I have also been following this site for years, ever since I had myself a VOX and a Wizard. This site still has a tremendous amount of talent and still is the best site for hacking/development of ANYTHING WinMO/CE, I think part of the issue is all the hype and press the site has gotten in the past year. All these breakthroughs are posted on sites like Digg/Engadget/Gizmodo when months and years past only people that knew the tech and loved mobile devices knew about the site.

Than again maybe its just me!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] rwertz14:
To lose Leo and pfcsabre as chefs is just detrimental to the community. We really need to come up with some sort of structure to fix this. Something needs to happen soon before we lose even more. Some good suggestions have been thrown out there, we just need to get something implemented. And the sooner the better.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] IAMFAN:
This one time fee really could be a chance! :rolleyes:
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] xECK29x:
Agreed 100% with all of this, I think this hits both problems:

'Noobs' - Leeching off of the talent that is here without contributing to the site (not just the chef, btw I believe a chef profiting from donations is selfish (not trying to sound like a **** I think its just the way I wrote it), donate to the site)

Education - A lot of people do not understand what is done to develop the things people (very careful not to use we) do here, this will help them get a feel for things.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
I personally would love to see this. Unfortunately I am not sure how this particular forum software works under the hood. I know it is possible on my RRE BETAs forum.

However I am not sure that the ban feature should be permitted.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
what rre beta???? you holding out?! gimmie gimmie gimmie!!!!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Da_G:
Id just like to chime in on the idea of requiring paying for membership.. I don't agree with that at all..

I'm more than happy to share my work for free, with donations optional (to both the site and me) :) But if someone is going to be making money on my work as a mandatory requirement of accessing it, that someone is going to be me. Since making money is not my motivation, I'd just move my work back over to my own host and leave it open..

There are plenty of other ways to weed out the bad without going to such extremes :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
I gotta agree. I do this to learn and have fun. I have no use for a few bucks here and there. I just let people donate to those that help me or to xda.

Now just respond Da_G and get that 1000th post out of the way :p
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] AkWizKid:
My suggestion was not intended to be a money making scheme for the site nor to take away from the deserving chefs like yourself. My intent was that it would turn away people that could care less about the work done here while they load up the forums with unnecessary questions. As a point of reference, there are chefs who encourage donating to the site over themselves. Aruppenthal (even though he agrees with you) is an example and I quote:

“I DO NOT ACCEPT DONATIONS. I DO THIS PURELY FOR FUN. IF YOU LIKE THE ROM AND WANT TO SHOW YOUR GRATITUDE, PLEASE DONATE TO XDA OR ONE OF THE CONTRIBUTERS LISTED ABOVE.”

Finally, I do not think anyone would call $10 “extreme”. I’m not downplaying your opinions but I have to defend mine.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Da_G:
I understand your reasoning behind the $10, and it's a perfectly valid idea :)

It just goes against the community spirit that the site was founded on. Reference the xda-developers homepage from 5 years ago:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030202121312/http://www.xda-developers.com/

If it werent for the openness the site was founded on, alot of us wouldn't be here today with the knowledge we have. So that's why I call it extreme.. it goes against 5 years of community spirit :) $10 is an infinite amount more money than $0!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] AkWizKid:
Congrats on the 1,000th post!

I see your point and agree on a philosophical level but the "community" has turned into a thriving Metropolis.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
then what about donations? how do you feel about donations? do you feel like linking to your paypal account in every post should be viewed as a donation? or an informal "pay me please?"

i've seen this all over the place. and that too annoys the hell out of me.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Da_G:
I only link my paypal account in my post because if I don't, I get pm's all the time asking me where to go to donate.. it ends up causing me more work.

Really, i'm putting my time and effort into it for free. If i've gotta annoy a few people in the process, it's a small price to pay. No more annoying than the guy in the subway sitting in the corner playing music with a hat for money.. he's giving you something free.. you can pay or not.. :)

If it bothers you that much, you could always turn signatures off.. :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] venelar:
I think it should stay donation based. IMO "fees" would lead to MS and HTC being not too happy with people making money off of their stuff.

I think the best idea yet was to let cooks moderate their threads.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
how would you feel if donations to a person would be baned from the site? one could only donate to the site.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Da_G:
It wouldn't bother me one bit, as long as xda-developers remained an open development community and donations are optional :)

I think alot of developers would think twice about the amount of effort they put into supporting things and cut back in that case though.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
eeexactly! it was never like that. this is something that came about recently. super stars like dutty....being bought phones just so he can cook. people like efrost with his shamefully touchflo replacement.

its madness. xda has lost its spirit.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] hmmhmm1222:
how about a forum section for "special invited" members? for the developers and those who proved themselves under the years to not be "beggars" or helpless or lazy enough to even do a search?

moderators and others that has proven themself have accsess? i dont know how it would work but its an idea.

Myself is quite new to all of this, but i am learning and trying to dig out info on cooking and and developing and all the rest, thankful for the patience of the older ones and their willingness to help, and knowing people dont have time to help people to lasy to even search for five minutes and find an solution and the frustration is very understandable.

but its sad to see people that can give so much leave because they finally had it with "beggars" as i call them :)

sure we can ask a question or so, but in some threads its just about everything, i meen questions like "how do i change wallpaper?"

but i hope you find a solution that works
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
I gotta back this up. I get a couple pms every day asking me about donations. Another reminder that people dont read. I have my policy in huge print of my first post. Im pretty sure Da_G is on the same page about donations as alot of the chefs. Donations are strictly optional. I know NATF used his initial donations to buy some software to help in his rom creation.

However I do know there are some chefs in other forums that make users feel like it is a requirement.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] venelar:
Not nitpicking, just struck me when i read it.And the Raph Elite team?
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
I actually think that was mostly so we could get hardspl. Without that we wouldnt need any chefs for the rapahel.

I actually feel that situation is a bit different since without some of the tools created by those particular individuals we wouldnt be able to accomplish alot of what we do.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
i don't care who it points out. mr.g...im not coming at you. i've seen you in action...youz was up at 4 in t he morning making a kitchen for a half ass beta rom...and i've never seen you ask for anything. but you know what im getting at.

just know that i'll lash out at whom ever to make my point known. its out of control. people see what dutty does and they try to get with that. you know what...i think its dead wrong that people shower him the way they do. but on the other hand....no one loses sleep like he does and know one perfects a rom like he does. and if asked....he would still do it without donation.

its got to stop! you want to donate? donate to a hungry child. not a hobby obsessed man who would be doing what he does with or without your donation. and thats just speaking for the pure at heart.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] AllTheWay:
All good points but...

You guys done with coming up on ideas on how to remove the idiots and redundant questions.

Plain and simple. No matter what we (XDA) or anybody else does it won't stop people from being stupid or not searching. Call it a defeatist attitude or whatever you want to call it, but given the fact of how much XDA has grown it's natural for the newer members to not be technological savvy as others.

Not taking anything away that McMexican and other members have already stated, they are all very valid points and suggestions, but trying make people search won't make any difference no matter what you try to enact.

I remember when I first started here and posted a redundant thread. I got flamed for it, and rightfully so. I posted without searching first. Lesson learned. Haven't done that since. Or at least I don't think I have.

Now I must go back to closing redundant threads and blatantly attacking members for not searching. Honestly! That's the only way to make a change. Tuff love!

EDIT:

Now I bet some of you can understand why I bought an HD. After spending even one month in the Raphael forum I was so sick and tired of the redundant threads and post. At least with the Blackstone forum the number is significantly reduced.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Doinshots:
I am a n00b/lurker. You can see from my post count that I don't say much. I am, however, here every day. I flash ROMs regularly, try out new tweaks and tricks I learn here all the time.

I am not new to the internet and forums. I knew better when I got here to search before I post. The problem is that there is a large influx of new folks as these phones become more popular. Someone buys a new phone, doesn't like the default setting for the MMS delivery notification and does a Google search and the next thing they know they are at xda (because almost every google search for fixes ends up here). They are either lazy, excited, or both and start posting 'stupid questions'.

In my opinion, the best way to handle this is to have a 'posting guidelines FAQ' and just delete the posts that fall outside the guidelines. The problem with this approach is that it takes a large, committed moderation team.

just my $.02
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
dont let me catch you donating those 2 cents shots....dont let me catch you!!!!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Doinshots:
Didn't I just do that?? Oh, wait... I see what you did there.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=3246100&posted=1#post3246100

read post 1602 and down. madness!!!! you know what? where is my effin donation?
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] DSmithZ28:
Exactly what I said earlier on, The Touch HD (insert massive drooling here) is not US Carrier Supported. It is VERY unlikely that nOOb is going to shell out that kind of money for thier first WinMo Device!

ATW, Why not consider what I suggested earlier, Lock Development and Hacking specific threads and then create a second "open to all" general discussion thread. Give passwords to approved people who are ACTUALLY participating or have a record of particpating in an intellegent way for the Development and Hacking Thread. We would only be talking about a hand full of threads. Let the noobs post "Downloading now" and all the other useless crap in the General Discussion Thread Portion of the Topic.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] duke_stix:
As i said before

I think all we need is a better hierarchy on the forums

1 Admin

3/4 mods

the admin mods the mods

the mod mods the users

the mods have powers to remove newbish posts, the admins make sure power isnt abused

only those people with the knowledge should be mods

and perhaps for those very very n00 n00bs the mods could send a friendly PM either answering the question asked in the first place or pointing them to the answer

i think a tighter ship is all thats needed, nothing else

otherwise, its a fantastic forum, and needs to be run with a tighter leash not allowing newbs to clutter up the forums, and to actually help them

this could of course be done on a voluntary basis

such as on the 'anything but ipod' forums, if a thread is made which is then closed because someone has already asked the question or the OP has decided the thread is unecessary, then a mod will simply remove the thread altogether

if a question has already been answered, all that needs to be done, is the OP needs pointing in the right direction and the thread can be removed

any unnecessary posts, including flaming need to be dealt with a little stricter i believe

anyway, just my 2c
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] DSmithZ28:
Yeah, but I am under the impression that Mods do this freely. Why do we want to waste their time patrolling nOObs? Almost always, well always in fact, the Mods are people that contribute to development also. We would essentially be hurting ourselves asking Mods who are most likely not compensated to waste thier time with nOObs instead of contributing to development.

I still think adwords the hell out of the nOOb threads and give it to developers!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] NotATreoFan:
RE: Donations

I am 100% against members requiring donations in return for ROMs and/or software. Example: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=450271 (see the first and last post).

I will not comment on accepting donations for my ROMs because, although I would be honest, people would accuse me of being bias. I will say, however, that every penny I have received from XDA members has gone to hardware/software needed to produce the things I do. (read: WinCE CAB Manager, Photoshop)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Da_G:
WinCe CAB Manager ate a good amount of my donations too, that software is pricey :P (but good!)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
photoshop huh...you must be pulling in some major numbers. can you donate me a bottle of jack? from your donation pool ofcourse
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] pfcsabre:
err... may I suggest changing "PayPal is my friend. Never required, always appreciated" on your sig. Looks like it's a paraphrase of your example :rolleyes:
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] tyguy:
Donations

I'm 100% WITH NATF and 1000% against donations!

Though must of people leech (I do so too) some people (including myself) are willing to donate (see NATFs post).

Despite that fact that XDA-DEV is not a commercial forum (thus forbidden to request money) I assume a lot of chefs to their work "for fun" and simply appreciate the fact that they were able to create something and appreciate even more if a donation trickles in. Me myself got asked if I take a donation for some help I provided and simply referred to the general XDA donation link for the mods and chefs who provide hardSPLs and unlocker, where the latter is s different subject anyway.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] DerekHaltom:
As a noob, I understand that a lot of the questions we tend to ask can be frustrating, but I for one appreciate those that take the time to answer our questions or at least point us in the right direction. As a first time Windows Mobile user, this device is incredibly intimidating, even considering that I came from what I thought was a "smarthphone" (Treo 650, no where near as complicated as this 'Raphael' everyone keeps referring to.)

I try to use search, and frequently find what I am looking for, but sometimes, unless you happen to correctly guess the magical keywords, you just can't find help with what you are looking for.

I do think that the admins or mods cracking down definitely couldn't hurt. When I was over at mytreo.net Alli was pretty vigilant about keeping us in line, and we were better off for it.

Anyways, all that aside, this is a wonderful site, and I have learned an incredible amount from everyone. I am in the process of learning how to do the themes and hope to contribute as much as I can when able.

Thanks to everyone that helps out, answers stuff, and makes all these great things for us. You have my gratitude, and, when able, a beer on me via paypal. (NATF, I sent you a small donation that happened to be everything I had in my paypal. I plan to sling a little more your way when I get paid again. Your ROMs have changed a lackluster gadget experience into the do it all device that I have always wanted. Thanks tremendously.)