yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] WALTERPAVESIHTC:
I am having the same problem. Paired but not working. The strange is that exactly the same KB was perfect with TyTN with WM6. On Touch HD there is WM6.1 and the ROM 1.13.401.0 (2048) ITA.

The only difference I remember is I used the KB immediately out of the box with TyTN. Later I connected it to Mac and let Apple upgrade the KB that ended with a new KB name. Later I tryed to use it with the HD. Also changing the KB name does not give any improvment.

I tried also not loading Touch Flow.. no chanche.

Any help appreciated. Thanks.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] mcmexican:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.

-McMex
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Xtreme XL:
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Radimus:
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] P1Tater:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.

This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] BlueAnt1958:
Agree

I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.

Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.

Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.

The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.

At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.

I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.

The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Da_G:
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions :)

The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for :)

It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..

Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.

Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.

I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.

Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more. :(

I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] skyfox99:
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] drieves1:
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] sammypwns:
Idea

Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.

The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] DSmithZ28:
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.

Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.

I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ktwildchild:
Is this post really necessary?

Anyway,

I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.

I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).

Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ktwildchild:
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] overjjrk:
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.

Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):

Forum pre-influx:

60% Experienced Members

30% Moderate

9% Noobs

1% Don't know where they are

Forum post-influx

45% Experienced Members

24% Moderate

30% Noobs

1% Still celebrating Obama's election

-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!

One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.

Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] P1Tater:
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Confused Stu:
Never a truer word spoken, guys

Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.

I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!

Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?

My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there! :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] HemanC:
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Kraize:
@ overjjrk

Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election

And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] tyguy:
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.

I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....

I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.

Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.

An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.

One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.

Let's see how this thread evolves.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?

i think this is a good way to go about things.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] addicus:
The problem isn't that people are newbs. The problem is that they are newbs and don't read the sticky's titled "READ HERE BEFORE YOU POST" that say to read and research before asking simple questions because the answer is most likely already there.

The Raphael and Kaiser forums are no different than the Wizard forum was when I first joined. We were all hyped up on our awesome phones that had carrier bloatware resulting in unflattering performance. It's a cycle. Back then if you asked a stupid question you would get ignored or severely flamed by the users and the chefs. I say bring that back!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] X2D:
Well I forgot to add in that yes, ignoring people who don't know how to do research will ultimately, hopefully, lead them to use the proper channels to get more information (wiki, sticky, google...).
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] tvaril:
I just wanted to say one thing. My father has just bought HTC Touch Pro. He is not very good in english he does not know how it goes in using forums like this one. He is also not very good technicaly equiped, i mean new technology, and it is very hard for him to read through threads, without dictionary, when he is looking for some problem to be solved. I said him not buy this device because he will be more angry with it, than happy. But he liked it so he buyed it. And now he is solving the problems which normal phones does not have. I understand him because it is hard to learn new things in his age and technology is growing too fast for him and most other people who uses this forum are the same i think. But i know very good how anoying it is to see all the time the same questions which i already know it is solved and it is in wiki or sticky threads. There are many threads in this huge forum and it is hard to orientate through it. Everyone can post new thread and i think it should be restricted. Maybe they should post in already made threads to gain necessary number of posts before they can start their own threads. I can see Junior Members, Members and Seniors but i cant se the differences, so it could be used in this way. Also Seniors could have moderate their own threads for example cookers ;)
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Warjcowski:
Limit link posting

To combine a few of the options mentioned earlier:

what if instead of providing links to the answers for noobish or already solved questions, we provided the search terms? Mods would also temporarily ban the person until they found the answer and edited their post with a link to the answer.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] know_fun:
ok i'll admit i haven't read all 19 pages so excuse me in advance

I've been on xda for awhile and finally joined abit over a year ago. I dont post much because all the questions i wanted answered are answered. I just wanted to comment on a few things.

I do believe there are more retarded questions and comments. By retarded i mean impeding. But I also (flame me all you want) believe its the site. I do not think the site is well moderated. Of course I understand that people have lives, but their are consistent people on this site to help. I think chefs should be about to at least moderate their thread. I also think a system should be made where regular members can vote on if a post can be deleted. People who post just to post (i.e. "First") or questions that have been answered. This should help clean the clutter of ~50 pages. (yes i am reiterating the poll)

Also the search should be updated. I like some forums because if i search for something that post would show up and if i open that thread that post would come up. I do not like searching the whole thread for that one post. ya ya ctrl + f but at least 9pages starts to get ridiculous.

I do like reading through a thread and members quoting post#s. I enjoy you guys thank you. But people shouldn't need to do this. If its a fix it should show up at least edited in the first post or so. This of course is asking alot from the chefs and many chefs do this already but it would help with the clutter again.

Sorry its a novel but just once more thing. The member fee; I do not believe in. I do believe in more donating for chefs. Money should go there. and do not stop noobs to wait to post what if its a legit question? and lastly we need that raphael silly question forum

DONE :D
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] scotchua:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=477235

I merge at LEAST 10 threads a day into this thread.

Scotchua's Soapbox:

Also, i'd like to add that I appreciate all the suggestions being offered. I just wanted to make a statement as kind of a reminder that I really feel that many users underestimate the volume of the work already being done by the moderators just to keep up as much as we are. This makes suggestions that include increasing the moderation duties significantly more problematic. As far as giving chef's the right to moderate their threads, I may be stepping on some toes, but the reality is that Chef's are only a part of what goes on around here. There are many other software developers here too who would also like that ability, and the quantity of people having the ability to edit/delete posts is VERY problematic. Moderating is hard work, trying to keep your personal feelings out of situations, trying to be fair...it's definitely more work than it might seem from the outside.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ptyindian:
i dont know if its just me or if other feel the same but i feel like the questions and answers thread is disorganized. No offense to you scotchua's i like the idea and concept behind it but for some reason it just seems a little disorganized like when posts are merged they seem to be getting merged all over the place. The first day when you made the thread i answered a question and then like i returned an hour later and there were different questions on the first page. Like the entire first page had completely different stuff then it did earlier. i think instead of having a thread maybe just have another sub forum of questions? i dont know maybe i am just confused with the questions and answers forum. I am not trying to step on anyone's toes or ideas. Just my opinion which might not even matter.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] scotchua:
You're not incorrect, however there is no way around this because the posts are sorted by date and time posted. I try to consolidated these posts a couple times a day, but obviously there will be some overlap as I just can't combine them as fast as people post them :P

Today, I combined 18 threads into that one. Yesterday it was 27 i think. I do think that we might at some point we could consider putting a Q&A subforum under each device. Then we'd just move the individual threads. I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has them. Of course they could always be PM'd to me as well.

Scotchua

P.S. Thanks to all those who have been diligent in answering questions. I very much appreciate your contributions.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] xboxhaxorz:
Have a report to mod next to each post. Upon review the mod can delete the post or leave it. Of course that makes the mods job harder. So i think just having a post rated neg 3 times automatically deletes it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
I gotta agree that it is hard to follow. I think it would be great if there was a subforum for each device just for Q&A. That would go a long way to keep the software and rom sections a few posts cleaner :p