yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] KD8DNS:
My rant and idea

I believe this is a step in the right direction, but this is no solution. I have always believed that one should take and pass a general knowledge test before the "account is unlocked for use". Most will say its a waste of time, I however believe this is a excellent solution.

It seems as if the noobs "stick" together and the seniors and mods get *****ed at for stating the obvious. If you ask a stupid redundant question that could have easily been answered, then you deserve to be made a ass of, POINT BLANK.

It is really a pain in the ass when I personally search for something and i have to go through 50 posts regarding the same redundant crap. It is truly frustrating. That's why I believe a test should be taken for access to the site. Questions like.

1. What resource would you use to find info in GPS issues

2. Were would you go if you wanted to change the rom.

3. What would you do before starting a new thread regarding SD flashing

ETC. ETC. ETC.

Furthermore, each section should be locked to posting until you have successfully passed the "test" or a MOD votes you in. IE, if you want to post in the Diamond section then you pass the ''Diamond test". Wanna post in the Kaiser section then another test should be passed.

To many people come in our "house" and expect a handout without ever even thinking about contributing at all. For example, look at all the people that *****ed at olipro for his unlocker. And shaps for Touch Experience. Im sure most that have been here a while know were im coming from. This is OUR house That WE built. Take your shoes off and show respect. Learn and teach, show ambition, and you will be respected.

Believe me, I enjoy the occasional Flaming a noob just as much as the next. Or even better, when you replay to a stupid ass question you get 30 more reply's from all the other noobs stating **** like "you could have just answeres his question". Well I did and FU if you don't like the demeanor I answered it in, sorry maybe next time ill send roses, Or the OP could have just RTFM.

Sorry for my rant, but I just felt this was the thread that I could state how I feel. I might not the top contributor, but when and were I can and will help you as long as you show willingness to learn.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] NotATreoFan:
This is how premium newsgroup carriers help control spam postings. Once registered, you can download all you want. But in order to post, you have to request the authority.

I think the best way to implement this would be to create an "all noob-type questions here" thread similar to the one Scotchua did in the Raphael section, and by default, that should be the only thread that new members can post in.

I know VB supports restrictions similar to this because other forums I visit have certain areas that require a minimum number of posts before you can see them. And by limiting new members to the "all questions" threads, we can control people inflating their post count artificially by simply deleting and posts created with that intention.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] DaveShaw:
Whilst I enjoy some of these solutions and some of these have merit, please also remember that the forum software runs on vBulletin and what you can do with it is limitted.

Any change such as the one above (sorry, KD8DNS, I'm not picking on you, it's just you are the closest) will require changes to the forum by the admin(s). The admins are very busy and changes like this take time (and possibly money) and will affect all users of the forum (unless Raphael users want special priveleges :p). The raphael forum is in the state the Kaiser one was in this time last year. _Alex_ had a thread discussion going on a similar issue - many ideas were bounded around and the subject was dropped (an additional sub forum was added though - Link here - the end solution is in the first post). Overtime the Kaiser section has quietend down. Most of the Kaiser moderators are now active in the Raphael forums instead. I think there will always be this kind of buzz in the latest device forums.

Are we at risk of getting an Elitest attitude here? Wanting access to the forums limitted to people who know what they are on about. Have a look at the first posts by some of the more respected members here and you'll find we were all noobs once (except maybe ViperBJK, that guy just appeared brilliant :)).

Da_G seems to have a good handle on things here. Paying for the forum, bad idea, Chef's only replying to what they want to, etc, etc.

The chef's owe the everyday users nothing (even if they donate). They can just ignore any posts that demand things from them. The ROM's they create belong to the Chef (IMO), improvements, suggestions, bug reports (with fixes preferable), etc. are acceptable, "can you make a lite version for me", "great rom, plz remov manilla", etc isn't.

Anyway, I'm rambling as usual, this is just a collection of my thoughts at the moment. I may channge my mind (or just lose it altogether) later :D

Ta

Dave
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] LazPL:
Ok, lots of ideas. But it must be kept simple. The very fact that there are so many people in this forum gives us power. Have you noticed, how often other sites and media reference XDA?

I have a humble proposition.

If a user is unknown, they will have to sit through a short video/slideshow. In this little video, we will explain how we feel about things. A lot of people just fall into the forum via Google, or direct links elsewhere. You can't really fault them for not "getting it" in the five seconds they're in here. Let's admit it - the site has grown, not only in users, but also in content. I am on my third HTC device since I joined. It takes time to understand, to get to know people. Some of us are subtle, mannered and respectful from day one. Others, not gifted with a good upbringing, don't realize they're ruining it for everyone else. But the point is I don't think anybody is a noob, rude, stupid, or lacking in knowledge BY CHOICE. So let's help educate people in a friendly and easy-to-digest, comfortable fashion. If we could come up with the contents of such an instructable video together, I'd be happy to record it (in fact, I can look pretty scary, too!)

Let me know what you think.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] KD8DNS:
I think the Elitist attitude is what makes this forum what it is today. XDA-DEVELOPERS.COM is undoubtedly the most respected and well known community throughout the net regarding winmo. most, if not all mods, cabs, tweaks, and programs show up HERE before anywhere else. I have listened first hand walking through the att call center, reps refer customer to this web site to seek the help they need (of course att does not condone this).

My continued rant:D
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ktwildchild:
How about when a new users signs up that they MUST complete and online training tutorial before they are allowed to post. The tutorial could consist of "what if" scenarios about posting, searching, some basic options and they must pass a final test on usage of the forum?

That might slow down the "can you help me turn on...." questions.

I myself have become very supportive of this environment, mostly because of all of the knowlegable people who have come together here to help each other out.

This is a great place for information but it can be a great place for education as well.

And I do agree that the WIKI could be MUCH more useful if better maintained. Some seem so quick to post instead of updating the WIKI so it is on both sides of this forum where the problems lay.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] AkWizKid:
You just proved exactly what we are all talking about in this thread. I already made that suggestion in post 74 and you would have known that with a little searching. Now there are two extra non-useful posts in this discussion: your post and my response to it. The insanity continues...:p
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] duke_stix:
Hi all

well, on my university intranet, whenever theres a notice that comes up for all students, you cant access the intranet without reading the notice and agreeing to it.

so, how about a similar system?

that after people have registered and activated their account, the activation of the account could involve a series of simple screens which show each rule on a seperate screen rather than a big long list that needs reading!

this way, they have to scroll down the screen, agree to the conditions and submit in order to get through the activation process

that way, we know that they have agreed to the rules, and everyone is aware of the rules

also, (and i would be more than willing to help with this) perhaps once the new user has successfully completed the activation, they could be forwarded a page with links to important topics, FAQ's straight into their email

just an idea

it would take a lot of work to compile these pages, and in fact most are already present on the wiki. and as stated earlier in this thread, the wiki's need to be kept updated aswell
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ktwildchild:
Sorry Ak, If I missed 8 pages deep 1 sentence in this thread. This seems to be the exact reason for the issues/feelings that have arisen on the forum.

Now another useless post in a growing thread.:rolleyes:
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] P1Tater:
<------- Me likes this idea a lot ------->​

This to me is probably the best solution. I actually like this very much. I agree it would take a lot of work to compile the pages butif the Wiki was kept up to date it really wouldn't be that much work. Thus reinforcing the point that the Wiki needs to be kept current.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] mrvanx:
with regards to keeping the wiki up to date and useful thats something i tried right AT THE START of the raphael forums, http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=419746.

Its quite clear that has gone pretty much un-noticed by the majority considering the current situation :(
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] AllTheWay:
Sadly yes it has. It has some very useful links in there. I guess we (XDA) are asking to much from people. Reading and comprehending is beyond them.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] aruppenthal:
MrVanx

Completely off topic but can you add the new Raphael OEM Packages Wiki Page I am working on to that post? I just did a basic layout but will work on it a little every day.

@P1Tater

I gotta agree duke_stix idea is pretty good.

But I still want control of my thread :p
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] rwertz14:
I remember my first post back in the Hermes forum like it was yesterday, I wanted Schap's ROM, didn't know how to go about getting installed on my phone, so I asked the noob question How do I install this on my phone, and no one answered. It forced me to research, read and learn. And I did. Somehow we are going to have to go back to forcing people to research and read. We are crippling people by catering to their every needs. Take that crutch away, and it will force them to have to do it on their own. I don't care how it happens it just has to happen. Secondly it needs to be put in black and white that the Chef's don't owe us a damn thing. We should feel privledged that they are even sharing their work with us. They are not short order cooks standing by to cook to our flavor. Everyone needs to accept the ROM as is, if they want more, look somewhere else or figure out how to get it installed. I think there are a wide variety and styles of ROM's being cooked and there is something for everyone. The chef's need to cook to their liking and if someone isn't satisfied, then touch sh*t. Most ROM's are UC compliant, it's just people are too lazy to figure out how to use it. That in itself should be one of the first things a new user should have to learn before being able to post.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
spare the rod...spoil the child. you refuse to read...rza in yo ass. you wasting space with pointless post...rza in yo ass. you badgering other memebers? guess who in yo ass....
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] duke_stix:
Hi all

I also think that perhaps each new user should get a nice little email depending on the device they selected (and they should be able to request a fresh update) which includes everything from the simple rom upgrade method to the complex cooking methods all in one handy hyper-linked email

this forum could be so great, and i think with a little organisation it can be a lot more than it already is (which is a LOT!) after stumbling across this website about 3 years ago now i think i now check it daily, and after the initial noobish-ness it just takes a few straightforward answers to make this forum effective. n00b's as annoying as they are, we must learn to help them, after all, we were all n00bs once too!
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ECdOc:
So after reading this whole dam post I actually have something worthwhile to add to this conversation.

I think that half of the problem with the "noobs" is that they do not know how to use the search properly. It is amazing the amount of people that don't understand how to get results from a google search. They might find the button but have no idea how to use it to find the data they are seeking. Here are some tips that should be pointed out for the search.

1.) if you are trying to find something specific "USE QUOTES" in the search term. This goes a long way in helping to find something specific. (ex: "fuze rom")

2.)If you are getting results that have nothing to do with your search query then use a negative term by putting a - in front of the unwanted term (ex: searching for raphael tweaks but keep getting kaiser threads search: "raphael tweaks" -kaiser )

3.)Use the forum specific search. click the built in forum search link and highlight the forum you want, this will narrow down your results. You can also use the "quote" method to further refine your search.

resources: http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/static.py?page=searchguides.html&ctx=basics&hl=en

That being said there is an enormous amount of information on these forums and I would be glad to donate and will be doing so in various forms, monetarily and information wise as I get more acclimated with this device. I came over from using a regular 3g phone connected to my Palmone Lifedrive via bluetooth to get half of the functionality of this one device. So thank you to all of the chefs/developers/mods and even to the noobs who first asked the questions that I would have asked if there were no search feature. Without you guys I would have way more than 9 posts on these forums.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] dharvey4651:
How to use a search engine
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] xboxhaxorz:
I dont think it is possible to have complete control unless you are a mod. Unless i am wrong, on some sites we they have a flagging or pos or neg rating. Perhaps if a post gets 3 or more negs than that post is automatically deleted.

I think a wk mininum should be enforced before a user can post in any forum. Or better yet, enforce a TEST that users must fill out after their wk is over. That way if they did not read the important threads they will fail the test and have to wait another wk.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] irulemyden:
I'm sure that my first post ever on page 18 of this thread won't get much attention or merit, but I'll speak up anyway.

I've been an active member of a few forums in my day; long enough to see the evolution they go through. This forum is at its peak, or what I like to call (a lil air of convoluted grace here), "the golden era," of its use. This is a time when the forum starts to get a little TOO popular and frustrates the main user-base. The choice "you" are after will forever change this place forever.

First and foremost, let me just state that all that I think this place needs is a some good ole fashioned moderation. Just add some more trusted mods to point people in the right direction. It adds a bit of control into the mix, but without duplicating some decisions that have caused ALL the forums I've love to die.

But... for what it's worth, here's what I think of your suggestions:

Interesting idea but doesn't take missclicks into account. Say I mess up because I'm tired... am I forever banhammered?

Please NO. I'm a poor college kid here. This goes against what I've always been taught about the "hacker" community.

This is a good idea, but will promote a huge drop in new members.... both good and bad. Most people come here to ask, not to lurk like me.

Reasonable... Just falls under better moderation, and that's what I'm all about.

Junkmail anyone?

Call me crazy, but I'm always skeptical to add trusted pages to noscript... not a bad idea tho.

This is good if it's on a per post basis. Just let us see the post if we really want to to maintain cohesion in the thread. Otherwise, just use the banhammer.

This wouldn't work because the people it is supposed to cater to don't do what they're supposed to anyway. It would just be a place to move a crap ton of craptastic topics to, and people who could answer the questions would never read the forum, and then make people post in more "popluar" boards.

My 2 cents.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] cushcalc:
I second these proposals - really like them a lot.
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] ramontrotman:
time to lock this thread now
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] monx®:
Agreed but my selected option cant be submitted :D
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] 12aon:
Is it possible to have a message come up when new members post, asking if they did a search with a link to the searchbar etc for the first 50 posts they make. That would not solve it but it would lessen the noobish questions. These are my 2 cents in, which I will not donate to the community but rather send to unicef, which I will help you google as long as I won't get an office linebacker on my ass, 12
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] Angus Benson-Blair:
Yet another idea

Okay, here is just a thought. Each Chef could have two forums and one noticeboard (if that's the right expression). The noticeboard is there only for the chef to post to and the rest of the world to read.

The first forum is for the experienced user who actually understands the search thing and/or who has a sensible question to ask. How do you ensure that only the right people have access? Make them pay a donation above a certain limit to the Chef, or the Chef gives personal access (so his mates dont have to pay etc). This will definitely make any noob think twice before asking a question and probably look elsewhere. Who would pay to ask a question that already exists elsewhere?

This is where the 2nd forum comes in. This is where any question can be asked, rediculous or not, by whoever wants to. Many of the questions will be answered by other noobs (such as myself). Afterall there is no such thing really as a bone question- we were all noobs once and without doubt I still am; very much so! No input from the Chef would be required in this forum unless of course they wanted to.

So what about the noticeboard? This is where a chef can take any pertinent questions and answers from the serious forum and post it for the world to see, thereby ensuring that those new to the ROM can get the latest and greatest hints tips etc.

I think this would be an option that suits everyone. Chefs and the serious can continue in the vain they did when XDA first came to light while the rest of us can still gain the very useful information that we need.

Right, now that I have said this I am running, dodging, ducking and diving before I get kiboshed for posting such a mad idea and for beeing such a NOOOOOOOB. Anyway. Thanks to all of you for your amazing work, especially Mr Monx- I hope you got the coffees/beers I sent
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] iammaz:
What can I say, I'm OCD-like about reading entire threads before I post a reply. 18 pages of this had quite a few good suggestions but a few particularly deserved a reply.

1. Charging a membership fee: While I would support this, MS and HTC are unlikely to overlook this, and considering the fine line this forum is on it's just not worth poking the issue with a pointy stick.

2. Making people read the wiki: This isn't going far enough. Everyone says "We should make them read the wiki if it's up to date" but I haven't seen anyone mention that everyone on here should know how to update the wiki when they do find a solution to a problem.

3. Changing vBulletin in various ways: It depends on the organisation between the seperate device forums. Sweeping changes that piss off other mods just aren't going to be worth it.

No matter what we do it's going to take a lot of work. I'm sure there are a lot of other people like me who spend a lot of time on here and are willing to give up their time to help keep the site running smoothly for everyone. Unfortunately I've been here a long time (I remember when the Universal was all shiny and new) but have rarely needed to post (this happens when you know how to search) so my post count is quite low, especially with this account. The limit of my power is to make a new thread or post on existing ones. Makes it hard to clean up 200+ page threads because n00b's have asked the same questions over and over.

I think the best outcome is going to be finding more trusted mod's who are willing to dedicate some time to cleaning this mess up. How you pick them would make or break this tho.

Hopefully that at least encouraged some thought.

Maz
[Touch Pro, Fuze ROM Development] X2D:
This forum is damn good at being usable and it's awesome to have a place like this to be able to research and even develop new and innovative things to make our phones easier to use and more efficient.

There's only so much you can do about "newbs" because at some point in time you were one as well. There's always going to be newbs everywhere because anyone can go pick up a new phone and by some miracle be destined to discover XDA and the process will be never ending. Think of something brand new you just bought and knew nothing about, eventually (usually) you will find some source of information or a community have you, where people share your interest. XDA is a fantastic website, best there is as far as finding updated information and great cooperation between the people who are doing most of the actual work cooking roms, locking threads, answering peers and doing what you can to give back to the community. I look for ways everyday that I can try to at least offer some bit of good advice or point someone in the right direction but I wish I could do more.

Some people just don't care and will never care and that's just a part of life. Much respect to everyone here who has a working head on top of their shoulders you make my phone work for me and that is a very important feeling having to invest in a contract and a large expense as the majority of the folks here have to endure when dealing with a cell phone company.

Sorry for rambling lol =p