yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] Medulla:
I'm not the one making wild claims so I don't need to show you anything. The burden of proof lies with you.

No, science revolves around proof and facts. Making ridiculous claims then replying with "lol" when someone asks what you're on about is no kind of science. It barely even passes for communication.

Now you're just making my point for me. 'Radiation' covers a multitude of sins, including radio waves and visible light. Where's your thread telling people to dump their stereos in fear of brain tumours? Or your 'helpful' advice that people should close their eyes when not using them in case their eyeballs overheat? Either of which claims would carry about as much weight as what you've said thus far on this thread.

It's only 'obvious' if you accept two things:

The electromagnetic radiation from mobile phones is harmful at all; and

Receiving 3G signals emits more electromagnetic radiation than receiving 2G.

You haven't proved either of these things.

Eh? Seriously, where did that come from? No one here's talking about your mother, or the risks of smoking, or indeed anything like that.

I can only assume this is an attempt to compare the unpredictability of smoking related diseases with your theory that cellphones cause cancer and over heating brains and whatever other ludicrous claims you've made here. The problem is that there actually is a proven link between smoking and lung cancer etc; whereas there are no actual cases of any of the adverse affects of cellphone use that you claim, which pretty much makes a mockery of your clumsy comparison.

Well might I suggest that you supplement your apparent research knowledge by learning a new technique, it's called 'Googling'. Using this amazing new tool you can learn whether there's actually enough evidence to support crackpot theories before you rush here to save us all from a lifetime of cancer and overheating brains.
[General Topics] nir36:
now before i go on replying to your strange accusations, you should consider the fact that all i'm doing is bring it up to people's conscious.

you're implying as if i'm making wild claims since it is ME who invented to idea of radiation being unhealthy.

if you have a problem with the theory, you can start planning a trip around to world to blame scientists who've already "proven" this theory.

where do you think proofs and facts come from?

proofs and facts are merely a statistical evaluation of experiments and theories.

I would be more blunt but it's pointless as it seems you've missed the point. your cellphone is attached to you for a long time during the day, while your stereo isn't.

you obviously assumed i was talking about the waves themselves rather than the heat your device is emitting.

electromagnetic waves radiated at these frequencies (at least that's the current assumption) can't hurt us since the frequencies are too high to dissolve neuron connections.

in that manner, it doesn't matter if you're using 2G or 3G, since if the frequency is too high it doesn't matter what the wattage is.

There is a good reason for why i showed power formulas rather than a bessel function. heat and power are related.

what "boils" your brain isn't the electromagnetic (edit, once again) waves themselves rather than the heat they create and the heat emitted from your battery
[General Topics] aE3-ink:
A friend of mine has a sister who is a neurologist in Dublin. She encountered cases of people with brain tumours located around the ear region back in the 90s. Her first case was a stockbroker in Dublin & he was using a mobile all day long. He had no g,eetic defects & no family history of brain tumour, or any othger neurological diseases. She encountered more similar cases & these people were always ones who used mobiles on a regular & intensive basis. I know that she submitted her data to the Medical Council of Ireland.

I'm not sure about today & whether she still encounters such phenomena, but I shall be seeing the friend this weekend & shall enquire.
[General Topics] viroid:
My fiance told me recently that she used to keep her cell phone between her legs on the seat while driving and that a few years back her pap smears starting showing 'something out of the ordinary' .. She has since then stopped placing her cell phone there while driving and she said that the last few pap smears have been clear.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are dangers with the emerging technologies that are either unknown or being hidden because they don't want sales to suffer.

Just be smart, Install a Comm Manager that allows you to turn off 3G and only turn it on when you need it.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_cook_egg_cell_phones.htm

...ViROID
[General Topics] boog:
I have read through this thread, and have been somewhat amused.

I have a hobby of radio, amateur radio. And I would like for everyone to think about something. If you are "boiling" your brain. Why isn't the phone boiling hot? Don't you think the phone would just be screaming hot if it emitted enough power to "cook" with?

Check the specs on a microwave oven and see how much power it takes to cook with.

I am allowed to operate 1.5 kilo watts on every amateur band, although I never have, don't really need that much power. But I have operated 250 watts, and I use 100 watts almost every day (on an external antenna of course), on HF (below 30Mhz) and between 5 to 50 watts on 144Mhz, I also operate 5 watt handhelds. Those handheld radios have more than 5 times (closer to 10 times) the power output, along with a higher gain antenna, of any cell phone that fits in your hand. Sure you need precautions to operate radio equipment, but half a watt on UHF is very low power, and is considered safe.

I would be more concerned driving past your local TV station transmitter, some of those operate close to 1 million watts!

The op showed that the phone did not consume quite 1 watt with 3g and the display and os running. 1 watt would take forever to get warm enough to "cook" anything.

Also, 800Mhz to 2.4Ghz isn't close enough to the microwave spectrum to be able to cook. But if you were to open up the phone and expose the antenna, scrape off any insulation, and hold your finger (or any exposed skin) directly to the antenna, it would probably burn you. A RF burn hurts a lot, trust me! But it burns you because you became part of the antenna and your skin isn't durable enough to "vibrate" that fast, which is essentially how an antenna works, it has to resonant at the operating frequency, and basically vibrate (via the electrons) to emit the signal.

Sure, there is going to be some questionable things happen, like those freak tumors and oddities on a pap smear, that look like they could be related to cell phone use. But I have also heard of people giving up a particular food because they got sick once from eating it.

2 people, in different departments (1 in sales, and 1 in service), at my place of employment have had brain tumors removed. But that was before cell phones were so popular, 10+ years ago. But I will take my chances and continue working there, I don't think copy machines (I fix copiers) radiate enough to hurt me, and haven't in the last 15 years.

And a couple amusing things to read:

How to Cook an Egg with Your Cell Phone

HOW-NOT-TO, Cook an Egg With Your Cell Phone
[General Topics] nir36:
I never referred to tumors because as i said, you'd need different frequencies for cellular radio to have the waves change cell structure.

heat emitted from electromagnetic waves is caused by molecule movement and air inside your head which causes friction and by that causes heat. batteries heat up as well.. and this heat is unhealthy as well. you wanna tell me it's not murderous? i agree.. but it's obviously worse to have it, rather than to not.

I served in the Israeli army for 3 years and all that time worked in dissecting radio transmissions. we had antenna which provided such high power i ACTUALLY had bad headaches during my service - just like 8 of my soldiers, 2 of them relieved from service due to constant migraines... you can call it coincidence. hell, i can call it coincidence.. but it might just not be coincidence as well.

People react differently to different conditions and different physical situations. It is not the purpose of my post to make you believe you're going to get cancer, be boiled, or die.

the point of this is to make people a bit more aware that there is a CHANCE, major or minor, that this issue is not healthy. I didn't say "don't use your phones". I didn't say "don't use 3G". All i said is, be cautious. use it when you need it. keep safe.. so that if in 3 years we discovered that cellphones (which are just an example) can harm you in any way, we'd be able to say that we at least.. were cautious.

It is obvious that avoiding everything in life is pointless. the sun burns you, you can be hit by cars, murdered, get diseases from here to end. so the point is not to stop walking the streets, but to look right and left before crossing.. and not to stop going to the beach, but to put sunscreen..
[General Topics] boog:
I know you didn't say tumors, but other people did, so I was generalizing my reply to everyone.

You actually hit my point, that high power is what is needed to create the issues you are speaking of. And where, I feel, is where most of the caution is due.

I wouldn't want to wish high power exposure of rf upon anyone. I have been burnt by my 100 watt transceiver because of my own stupidity, I did something while the power was up and it bit me, I had done the same thing before, with the power down low, and felt nothing, now I don't do the same thing at all!

So, it sounds like you do have good experience with radios, and I do agree, precautions should be taken for safe operation of radio equipment. But, I also feel that the power levels from our phones are so low, that we shouldn't have anything to fear. I don't think that 1 watt of power has enough potential to move electrons and such inside our body @ 1900+/- Mhz. Maybe if it were closer to the 4,000-5,000Mhz range I would worry. I would have to guess, if we could crank the power of our phones up to several hundred watts, and use and antenna with a positive gain # (things I read say our phones typically have a -7db gain, yes a loss), we could possibly start generating heat, and moving some electrons via RF.

We are (at least I know for sure, here in the USA) getting bombarded with RF all the time. Especially if you live in an urban/city environment. You have everything from the upper UHF frequency range of police/fire/rescue starting to use 900mhz+ going down through the analog/digital television and radio stations through lower UHF and VHF with amateur radio and shortwave broadcast below that, with a slew of things in-between all of those. My worry would probably be the high power transmitters doing something, just like you were saying about your headache issues.

I applaud you for trying to make sure people are aware. But, my opinion is that we are safe. At least from my experience, and all the facts I can find with my radio hobby (phone and "ham"). And so many people read things like this, and generate a perceived notion that it is going to cook their brain. Mostly because they don't understand.

The only example I can come up with, that most people should be able to associate with, is their home microwave oven (it is a type of radio transmitter). They operate at a frequency above our phones, but somewhere around 1,000 watts, give or take. Most have exhaust cooling fans, and you can feel heat coming from them. You could cut the power to 500 watts and still be able to move electrons and generate heat, and it would take longer to pop that bag of popcorn. But, cut that power down to half a watt (or even the 3 watt legal limit for cell phones), and I'm guessing you would have room temperature, even at that higher radio frequency.

I personally have never felt my hermes get even slightly hot, not even after long phone calls. Or any cell phone that I have owned before this one. I would have to believe that the phone should get hot before it could heat anything outside itself.
[General Topics] nir36:
unfortunately there are 2 issues here. i didn't conduct a deep enough research concerning the heat emitted from the battery. but at 2watts, the heat created INSIDE our brains from the waves is something we shouldn't take lightly. again, don't take me wrong, i'm not saying we WOULD fry.. i'm just saying we should be careful because we MIGHT be. our brains are very "fragile". this type of unnatural heat from electromagnetic waves is known to be unhealthy. we just don't know how much it effects our brain.

the cellular structure of our brains will most likely stay the same... but the heat still burns some cells, and as we know, there's a very strong debate on whether brain cells can be regenerated or not.
[General Topics] boog:
I think you may be confused, or possibly I am. Our pda phones don't emit 2 watts. The # that is close to 2 on your 1st post is the 3g power divided by the 2g power, that's not what the phone is putting out. The power consumption that you figured was under 1 watt for both.

And what is getting emitted in the form of electromagnetic waves is under half a watt. And the phone isn't radiating enough heat to be blasted with Infrared type of heat (a form of electromagnetic waves), Infrared radiation can be felt as radiant heat, like standing in front of a fire. Nor is it emitting enough power in the Radio Frequency (another form of electromagnetic waves) portion.

The final result of either would typically be felt as heat, or pain as in your high power exposure and headaches.

There just isn't enough power in out little phones to cause enough radiation of any form.

Well, I guess, if you were able to dump the entire power capability of the battery all at once you could possibly get up to 10 watts out of it. But it would most likely destroy the battery in the process, because it would most likely take a direct short of the battery to achieve.
[General Topics] crampedson:
Our OP is just trying to raise a point about a possible cause of harm. I'm sure the inconvenience of being on 2G more often can do little harm. Better safe than possibly sorry, I guess.:)
[General Topics] boog:
I understand, and I hope I'm not sounding like a know it all, or sounding like I'm being mad or mean.

I truly understand peoples concerns over being exposed to something harmful. I was just hoping to put some of the worry to rest with a little more knowledge. Although, I do understand that I don't know everything, I'm just stating what I know on the subject.

And if I remember correctly, I thought the op invited some debate on the subject earlier in the thread. :D
[General Topics] fallenczar:
i agree with boog here,

though this thread might have been started with a genuine concern to help and inform others, there is NO evidence to suggest that there are any harmful affects to exposure to cellphone radiations.
[General Topics] big_chunuts:
I did a test that was similar, when using a 2g phone the noise from the speakers was loud and easy to move the device around etc. when I put my SIM in the 3G phone, I couldn't get a noise out of the speakers at all doing the same activity.... Why is that?
[General Topics] vasra:
Ask and you shall be given:

http://beyondcreativity.blogs.com/mblog/2008/09/i-am-back-from.html

Some tidbits:

- SAR safety range based on temperature rise in saline fluid inside an artificial head

- unwanted cellular level changes occur even before temperature rises due to radiation (i.e. SAR figures are bunk)

- Glioma risk 5.2 times higher for children and early teens

- Design flaws in InterPhone studies underestimate radiation risks

- changes in blood-brain barrier (secondary neuropharmacological effects)

- 66% of applicable scientific EMF studies show negative effects. Even a higher percentage of human studies

Ignorance is no excuse. The data is out there.

If you have children, read this information carefully and think about it for a while.

If you want hard lab data about radiation exposure by phone model, check out Connect magazin's (GER) strahlungsfaktor tests. These give a much more realistic picture of real-world exposure than SAR figures.

Current latest 'bestenliste' by Connect

http://www.connect.de/themen_spezial/79454/0709_STRAHLUNGS_Bestenliste.pdf

BTW, it is really sad that there is really only one true testing mobile phone magazine in the whole world. Others are just rehashes of press releases and press pictures (and this includes 99.9999% of the blogs). Connect has the required technical know-how and labs to test for radiation, RF strength (reception), battery life time and many, many other figures.

All of the above just scrapes the surface. You could spend hours reading just the scientific meta-reviews.

Educate yourself, esp. if you have children or are in a high usage group of mobile / wireless technology users.
[General Topics] Chainfire:
Man, could you do a quick rehash and just say if thread is right or not?

It is not that I do not want to do the reading, I think it's all very very interesting, however, I have extreme wuss syndrome, as in I can't read about this stuff without getting sick (yeah yeah point and laugh - I'm not actually kidding - it's actually something like being too empathic).
[General Topics] vasra:
Well, since you wuss out, you will only get my opinion based on my interpretation :)

1. There is enough scientific data to err on the side of caution

2. If one talks/carries phone on the body a lot, is constantly in marginal network conditions (higher transmission power), then it probably pays to reduce exposure

3. Always use HF (BT) with phone further away from body, esp. head. This way you can cut down exposure to brains considerably. Some wired headsets act as an antenna, actually increasing the exposure to head. Not good. Trouble is, there's no data to indicate which wired headsets are good, which ones are bad. With BT HF, you get very low transmission power and guaranteed lower exposure.

4. If you have children, don't let them use mobile phones for talking, if you care for their neurological health - their exposure risks are manifold

5. You can reduce your exposure also by selecting a model with a lower SAR figure. However that is a very rough measure, and can be totally misleading. Better measure is 'strahlungsfaktor', which is a real life RF exposure measure tested by a German magazine called Connect, under very strict laboratory conditions. In fact much better conditions than many test their SAR figures at. Lower the 'strahlungsfaktor' , lower the exposure. Go to

http://www.connect.de/themen_spezial/Strahlungsbestenliste_566654.html

And download latest STRAHLUNGS_Bestenliste PDF and find the phone with lowest strahlung figure.

Do note that the exposure figure between the best and the worst phone can be a factor of 10. That is nothing to scoff at. If you pick a phone for your child, use this as your bible. They do not know how to protect themselves, it's your job.

6. If you are a heavy user (spend hours on the phone most days) you should really do something about this, if you care about your gonads or your brain :)

That's my take. Others may disagree.

The data is out there. Ignorance is no excuse.

Everybody makes their own decisions.
[General Topics] nir36:
I'm glad to have people respond, but i do think you're missing the point.

The fact that we don't have proof is the actual problem!

If it was proved that electromagnetic radiation can harm us, it would be dumb to even reply to my thread.

If it was proved it can't harm it, it would be dumb of me to open the discussion.

We know there's an issue with radiation... we also know that there are regulations regarding cellphone power radiation... up to a certain wattage.

I can tell you i'm working on my project with one of the best antenna specialists in Israel and even he says he's not at all sure what to think, and that further research should be conducted. When we work on cellular antennas in the lab we're always cautious.

(by the way, by showing 3G/2G ratio I trying to show heat radiation radio and not the wattage release itself. obviously our phones don't emit 2watts... but the ratio still stands).

Of course, everyone's invited to put their phones right next to their ears all night long while engaged in furious 3G video conversations with the farthest cell-tower.... all i was trying to say... is that we might discover it can damage us... and if we did, we might be sorry.
[General Topics] vasra:
I'm glad you responded, but I think you miss the point :)

Epidemological proof is stochastic, not deterministic.

Read the meta-reviews and you will find reasonable statistical evidence on epidemological level for negative health-effects of non-ionising radiation at cell-phone/WiFi transmission frequencies/power levels.

And the causal mechanisms are then provided on cellular level by neurological research.

That is *we know*, it' just that admittance of this is not widespread.

It's all there in the links I gave. Just start reading.

Maybe *engineers* don't know this, doesn't meant that the biologists, neurologists and medical doctor's are the same.

The only real problem, imho, is that there is no general agreement as to how big of a risk this is AND more importantly, what should be done about it.

Eh :)

I can easily kill you with EM radiation, it's just a matter of absorptive power, frequency, transmission power, distance and pulsating modulation used. You know this better than I do - you are doing research on this (sorry, I just had to pinpoint this).

The same goes for global warming - the science can never be 100.000000000% sure, just probabilistic, but there are still plenty of people who deny that the climate is changing in the first place. You can find a gazillion of internet posts about it :)

I hope they are biologists and medical sciences specialists. I wouldn't go to a doctor to ask them to fix my particle accelerator, and the same way I wouldn't go to an engineer or physicist to ask about whether EM radiation is harmful to living tissue (and under what conditions).

Different schools, different skills, different tools, different mindsets, different opinions.

But I digress. The data is out there. Everybody feel free to knock yourself out - or don't. It's all up to you. Your life, your health :)
[General Topics] nir36:
I should've written "Cellular Device EM radiation"

and hey, i'm with you... I don't use 3G (since i don't use a cellular data connection nor do i make video calls), i don't have my phone tucked beneath my pillow at night... and I use my BT speaker or BT headset about 70% of the time..

I think we shouldn't concern ourselves with this on a daily basis because it's pointless.. and as you said, I wouldn't put this research in the hands of engineers.. but there's so much research about different things.. with different opinions.. different developments.. it's hard to know what to believe.

One day milk is good for you.. the next it isn't.. and eggs as well.. and whine.. blah blah blah..

I do think we should be cautious... if only for the heck of it
[General Topics] afn691:
Working about environmental protection against electromagnetic pollution (this is one of my jobs now) I read about this.

In fact, the problem relates to a genetic predisposition for getting ill with radiation. Some problems in my city during the '70's finished with leuchaemya for lots of people near to high voltage wires, and that was higher

percentage than on other areas of the city. But some studies made by hospitals, and related to other british and chinese studies tell that some problems come by the activation of a cellular change ONLY in people having a determinated genetic code.

But, who does know which is his/her code, and the possibility of getting ill because of electromagnetic radiation ? I don't. So that I'll take care about high power electromagnetics radiation.
[General Topics] DrForIslam:
Nice guide,I always turn 3G off.

Is there a comparison between ppc devices and there effects on health
[General Topics] Vonrottes:
Yep I'm DOOMED!

Sleeping with phones laying on my bed since 2005:eek:

That would explain alot about.....uh...what are we talking about again?