yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] kyphur:
Let's not continue THAT conversation here!!!!
[Off-topic] P1Tater:
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Back on topic guys. My fault for getting off topic.

2 month ban for me.:D
[Off-topic] Menneisyys:
Guys, get an iPhone 3G along with your WinMo phones and use both for what they really excel at. The iPhone is simply unbeatable at some areas (gaming and probably even Web browsing).
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
You heretic... :p

I missed the limited GPS navigation.... thanks, I'll add that to my list. And I need to add no support for DRM music files. This list may grow the more I play with it.

It's not a good comparison. My comparison is out the box and adding legitimate third party apps without voiding a warranty. However, if we are just comparing "jailbreaking" to "cooked roms", then those would be the same in my opinion. Now don’t get me wrong, I will mod and hack just like anybody else. I just want to keep it an apples to apples comparison. *No pun intended* :rolleyes:

This is my point exactly. I will always avoid bashing the iPhone because I think it is a great phone. But I will never pass up an opportunity to bash the iPhone fan boyz. :D:cool:
[Off-topic] orb3000:
I do not hate Iphone, and as Menneisyys says, I used both and then I realize that I needed a WM phone because I wanted to have

only one device

that cover all areas I wanted: Phone, music, agenda, internet, etc with a high customization range.

So I decided to keep a WM phone and get rid of the Iphone, but it is in fact a great device for what is build for and nothing else.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
iPhone pros

Just so I’m fair, let me list the things a really like about the iPhone. And this is an “out the box” look at it.

1. Safari web browsing is second to none. (still better than Skyfire IMHO)

2. User interface is the best I’ve used (and very responsive)

3. Navigation is the easiest I’ve used.

4. Set ups/configurations is the easiest I’ve seen

5. Camera is far better than what I’ve seen on WinMo

6. Multi touch screen is Scha-weet! Finger friendly, so no need for stylus

7. Zooming

8. App store (just the whole browsing and loading apps is just too easy)

9. A few apps in particular, like the MySpace and YouTube apps.

10. Accelerometer (adjusts the screen for you as you tilt it) and comes into use with some of the games.

11. And of course gaming is far better than on WinMo

That’s all I can think of for now. :)
[Off-topic] theclueless:
while you are bashing the iphone to the ground, what makes you different from the apple fanboys praising iphone 2nd to none?
[Off-topic] rorydaredkign:
What you have said (very coherently and un-argumentatively I must say) in teh past few pages is just excellent. No abuse in an iphone thread for the first time ever. But what you users with both iPhones and WM phones have said is the same as me. I had WM, then UIQ and WM, lost my P1i and thought may as well try an iPhone, saves carrying my athena and ipod nano. Got it and never looked back. I never used WM to its full potential, only for calendar and a bit of web, and my iPhone combines my iphone, email and calendar perfectly.

Still got my Athena though :)

R
[Off-topic] theclueless:
well, im sure if ppl start digging around the apple advertising budget, they wont be showing the vista advertising budget ad anymore :D
[Off-topic] Menneisyys:
You can always (OK, 98% of the time - if it's not the socket that is damaged - or the OS itself) flash back the original ROM if you need to take the iPhone back to repair. That is, jailbreaking is almost absolutely safe.
[Off-topic] kyphur:
Yes, that is one advantage I'll give WinMo Devices (specifically with removable Flash Media). You can flash back original Rom (but not SPL!) if you damage the mini USB socket.

I have to say, I'm impressed that this thread hasn't degraded into a flame war from either side. This must be the most even handed "iPhone Discussion" Thread on XDA-Devs.
[Off-topic] DaveShaw:
That's because it's mostly mods doing the posting :p

Also, there are some trick's in the making for flashing SPL's without USB... :)

Dave
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
Wow...... I'm a "mostly mod" now. I feel so special. :D
[Off-topic] Ather:
LOL, i was wondering the same thing..this is the only post regarding iphone i have seen going to Page :5 :eek:
[Off-topic] owziee:
How can anybody actually buy this [KEEPING IT POLITE]!?

* No way to send/recieve files via bluetooth!

* No way to forward SMS

* No way to do Video calls.

* No copy/paste

* No MMS

* No way to record a video (except with some 3rd party apps)

* Super crappy 2 mpx camera without auto focus!

* No FM radio

* No built in true file explorer

* Blah blah blah...

* No easy multitasking

It's only advantage is a cool ui and some nice games in the app store...

Wake up Apple this is 2009! the iPhone feels so 1990's... I gave my girlfriend one for christmas, she had fun with it for about a week, now she wants her Sony Ericsson C702 back!
[Off-topic] DaveShaw:
Most of these points were answered a few posts ago: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=3129812&postcount=22

Ta

Dave
[Off-topic] owziee:
Well the unofficial apps for multitasking stinks in comparision to the ones for wm... And the MMS app doesn't work in my country yet, we tried but couldn't get it working at least.

Should anybody really need to install [KEEPING IT POLITE] 3rd party versions of these basic features in a phone nowadays? And you even need to hack the iphone to be able to install them.
[Off-topic] kyphur:
First, a gentle reminder to keep it civil in here. No name calling or such, we're all mature enough for a conversation.

Second, I'll repeat myself regarding the point that we basically have to hack WinMo to get the proformance we want from it so one could basically say the same thing regarding WinMo Devices.

I won't say that I'm lost to WinMo Devices but my experience with the Fuze (six weeks & two devices of living HELL just trying to maintain bacis functionality) was enough to convinve me to drop over $1,000 on 3 iPhones and sit this round out.

Ironically to the iPhone community my iPhone is "Extremely Customized" but to my WinMo buddies it is barely changed!

Again it comes down to filling a need.

Backgrounder is a great little app to allow programs to continue running in the background and it requires no techical skills (unless you consider knowing how to execute a "long press" of the home button a technical skill).

Swirly MMS works spot on for me. I do wish it supported deleting messages but that's a minor complaint.
[Off-topic] AllTheWay:
Couldn't the same be said of automobiles?

I don't blame you. Once Qualcomm is no longer the chipset manufacture I guarantee you will see an improvement in quality products. I also recommend you get your hands on a Samsung Omnia somehow, and give that a whirl. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

I just hope your not basing your disappointment solely on HTC. There are also other quality Windows Mobile devices out there.

Some People know that I am a stringent apple hater. Though I do give apple credit for what they are good at.

Marketing - If anybody thinks that Apple is not #1 in marketing then you need to check yourself.

User Friendly - Apple prides itself on user friendly. If you want a phone that you can just pick up and start to play with then the iphone is for you.

Pricing - Though the iPhone is expensive for what most people would pay for cell phones its still very reasonably priced (through a mobile carrier) in comparison to other top WM devices.

I've always refereed to Apple as Sheeple. SOME people who buy Apple do so because it's the hip and cool thing to do at the time. I honestly think that if a Windows Mobile user showed an iphone user all the applications / functionality that a Windows Mobile phone can do they would be pleasantly surprised.

If you want a phone that can play your iTunes and you can just pick up and go an not think about anything then it's for you.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
I think owziee still has a valid point when it comes to "out the box" functionality and having to "hack/mod" a iPhone to get some basic functions that WinMo has.
[Off-topic] kyphur:
Of course that's a valid point, counter-point is that not everyone needs or cares for some of those functions.

* No way to send/recieve files via bluetooth! <--- I always disabled this anyway.

* No way to forward SMS <--- Can't remember the last time I ever did this.

* No way to do Video calls. <--- How could the Fuze, Tilt, 8525 or Wizard do Video Calls?

* No copy/paste <--- meh... Not editing documents or anything like that.

* No MMS <--- Even though I've added this functionality it is rarely used and wouldn't be missed (even my 16 year old daughter doesn't mind not having it I mean we e-mail pics)

* No way to record a video (except with some 3rd party apps) <--- When I really want video I have a JVC Camcorder with HDD!

* 2 mpx camera without auto focus! <--- I take so few "Real Pics" that the diff between 2mp & 3.1mp isn't an issue.

* No FM radio <--- again missing on more WinMo devices than included besides stream it from the Net!

* No built in true file explorer <--- The data I need to get to is easily accessable when I need it from my computer.

* Blah blah blah... <--- I actually am glad this was left out! (ha ha ha)

* No easy multitasking <--- Some Apps natively run in the background. Ironically look at how many WinMo users install task Managers that undo this "feature" of WinMo, I mean now it's in every OEM Rom!

Again, I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different devices fill different needs.

The WinMo FanBois are just as retarded in their thinking as the Apple FanBois to be honest.

For this year iPhone fills my needs... A couple of years ago it never would have. How is that bad for either camp?

Say one doesn't fill your need or the other is overkill for what you do that's fine but to say one is crap because it isn't your cup of tea just isn't right.
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
Do you use your WM device in it's complete "out-of-the-box" state?

The, "Development and Hacking" forum on this site is by far the most popular and widely read forum around here. It didn't get that way because we were all so thrilled with the way our WM devices worked straight out of the box.

The same applies to owning an iPhone. What we don't like or feel is lacking, we will search to find a way to hack around it. Just like folks are modifying their WM phones to have some iPhone functionality. There's a reason that A_C's S2 series of apps are some of the most popular around here.
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
At this point in time, the answer is yes.

Let me clarify what I consider "out the box". That would be the "shipped" rom and using third party software that doesn't void the warranty. And I don't consider registry editing a hack. It is part of the way Windows is made.

What I use and how I use it is not the point. I just want to make sure I do an accurate comparison. I'll say it again.... apples to apples people.

I think there would be less emotional or childish debating if we keep the stock form and hack/modded comparisons separate.

I'll say this again, I don't see one platform better than the other. As kyphur says, it depends on your needs and likes.
[Off-topic] Menneisyys:
Exactly. The iPhone is more of an entertainment device with incomparably better games and gaming support. As far as productivity and other usage is concerned, however, WinMo is better.
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
Hey, no worries with me, mate. Look at my sig...I live on both sides of the fence. :D
[Off-topic] DaveShaw:
Better than Kyphur, he fell off the fence into and orchard :D :D

Dave
[Off-topic] kyphur:
Now, that's not entirely true....

I still have 3 Tilts (2 are being used the other one is up for sale) and will probably find my way back. I just have a lot of IRL stuff going on right now....
[Off-topic] DaveShaw:
No offense meant. I've read what's happening in RL (well what you've posted anyhow).

Just my sense of humor. (Note to all, I am never serious about anything) :p:rolleyes:

Dave
[Off-topic] kyphur:
DS, no probs... I take it all tongue & cheek...

Just wanted to assure everyone here that I'm not totally lost (yet)....
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
No need to explain your position. I didn't take it as confontational. ;)

Whatta ya say'n? You and kyphur swing both ways now? :eek::D
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
Well, you know...some want it all... ;)
[Off-topic] mikeeey:
the camera doesnt even have AF... lol.
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
I'm using my Tilt right now, and trust me, my iPhone takes equally good well-lit pictures and far better low light pictures than it does. The Tilt just takes way to long as it struggles to capture the frame.

Just because the Tilt has a 3MP camera doesn't mean that it takes better photos than a 2MP one. My old LG flip phone with a 1.3MP camera takes clearer and sharper pictures than my Tilt. It's all about lens and software, not mega pixel muscle.

EDIT: I fully concede on the lack of auto focus, though...I can't take any up-close shots on my iPhone like I can on my Tilt.
[Off-topic] lennie:
my friends, all of you who said the iPhone is the web browsing must be joking. your joking right? please tell me you're joking.

my girlfriend has an iPhone so I technically have an iPhone. and I've tried to use the much hyped safari and found it limiting:

this comparison between out of the box devices (without loading a new rom or jailbreak the iPhone).

1) the age old copy and paste. I wrote a small 5 page essay on my winmo where I had to pull a lot of info off the net, format it properly, spell checked it, and printed it wireless. I couldn't dream of doing that on an iPhone.

2)wordwrap, the iPhone asks "what's that?". I viewed a couple pages with the iPhone and winmo using opera side by side and there were NO wordwrapping on the iPhone while opera was just showing off with it. wordwrap = better navigation.

3) downloading from the web, iPhone say "stop with the foul language". on winmo I can download whatever I want from the web. I've even downloaded full roms many times to my device and flashed it from my device. opera on winmo even has a download manager! I can save/email/mms/ pictures and links, I can call phone numbers from my browser.

tell me where is the superiority in the iPhone's web browser? if someone say "it's in scrolling and panning" then that's opinion not fact, because opera performs pretty well and according to me from my side by side comparison is better than safari.

now away from the web browsing side of things.

4) expandable memory. some people say 8 or 16GB is all I ever need. but I walk around with 24GB: 8 on internal HDD, 8 on microSD, and 8 on microSD in my wallet ready to swap out at any time.

5) on my winmo I can use the space for way more than just music/video or installed apps. I really don't have to head back to my computer to do anything to my phone that I can't do using the phone.

6) customize. I don't think I need to say anything else about that.

7) real multi-tasking on winmo, not so on the iPhone.

I'm not even going to talk about the removable battery and how I have an extra one with me always.

I was going to list 10 but I'll save the rest for rebuttals

the only advantage I see the iPhone having over winmo devices is the form factor and an actual gpu driver.
[Off-topic] Menneisyys:
Yeah, the Tilt my be even worse than the iPhone, camera-wise. However, try comparing the later to a decent camera phone; for example, the Nokia N95. There's simply no comparison - the N95 (which is a two-year-old model!) is simply much better.

I've even published some comparative shots I've taken on my iPhone 3G and N95 - make sure you read http://www.smartphonemag.com/iphone...r-mobile-operating-systems-and-devices-part-i
[Off-topic] Menneisyys:
Please read my dedicated article at http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=467173 , particuarly the Verdict section, to see why I personally prefer iPhone to the current WinMo models when it comes to Web browsing.
[Off-topic] Menneisyys:
Yup, there ARE WinMo devices with better cameras (but, of course, nothing can beat the Nokia N95/ N82, camera-wise.)
[Off-topic] GWelker62:
For simple web browsing, (just viewing web pages and content) I still say the iPhone is better. For all the other web based information manipulation you outlined, then of course WinMo is far better.

Again, most of the negatives you speak of are viewed from a power user's perspective. We are doing those apples to oranges, modded vs stock, and toy vs tool comparison again. Put an iPhone and Tilt in my hands, I will eventually gravitate to the Tilt because my needs are the same as yours. Put the same two phones in my kids or wife's hand, and they will gravitate to the iPhone every time. They want to play, I need to work.

I could do the same comparison with a baseball bat (toy) and pry bar (tool). You can say a bat is better because I can play baseball with it, and use it as a pry bar. Then one could make the opposite argument.

You can see now why anybody having the opinion one is better than the other is illogical thinking.
[Off-topic] DaveShaw:
So after 67 posts we come to the conclusion that everyone should get the phone that works best for them... Which is why we got our phone in the first place isn't it, because we wanted it? :D

Raymond's Nit Picker Corner: I know not everyone likes the phone they have, but most of us do.

Dave
[Off-topic] lennie:
ok we're having a normal debate, correct? I showed were I drew my conclusion from, that browsing the web on winmo using opera is better than on the iPhone safari, namely, wordwrap (I haven't seen it in safari). so now show me why you feel that safari is better at viewing content.

my case: to read content with opera on winmo the user zooms in and only scroll down.

with safari on iPhone the user has to zoom in and scroll right then left then down, repeat.

I don't think wordwrap is a poweruser feature.

what is your basis?

a discussion is good and productive as long as there is no flaming or bad blood made. I don't think discussions are illogical, that's how points are made. you say you like a certain product and I'm asking why you like it. I said I liked the other product and I showed why I liked it over the other.
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
Not entirely so. When I use Safari I tend to use the phone in landscape. The screen is so big that I can read almost anything without even zooming in, and a quick double tap on the screen and Safari will zoom in to view just the block of text that you're reading, thereby negating the need to scroll left and right.

The only thing I really have against it is it's small cache size.
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
Well yeah, I've been jonesing for an N95 for a long time. A guy at work got one last year and the camera on that thing is ridiculous...beautiful pictures. Makes any phone I have look like a cheap knock off in the camera department.
[Off-topic] mrpiggae:
Exactly. There's a reason that I own both...both platforms have their strength's, and I use each one for the task that suits my needs. WM is a fantastic OS, but it simply fails to do

everything

better. Alot of people don't seem to be able to admit this fact and see anyone whom is suggesting that the iPhone does anything better than WM as an attack on WM superiority, and get a little too emotionally riled up about it.

I use my Tilt for mobile computing and whatnot. My iPhone is the better choice for music, video and web browsing. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to need to whip out my Tilt and edit an Excel spreadsheet when I'm having a few pints at the bar; but I might show some videos, music or a website to my friends, so I'll take the iPhone.

No biggie, best of both worlds, you know?
[Off-topic] lennie:
ok, I get your point. I like the animations in the iPhone, it makes the tasks look cool and the hardware form factor too. but that's about it. maybe it's just me but I always feel as if many people get to feel like they're in the "in-crowd", like my friend got the iPhone and now he thinks that no one is as cool as him, and I my girl got one and all of a sudden she feels like I'm jealous of her...I don't get it, but as I said maybe it's just me. many, many times I've read people say it's the greatest phone ever, but I don't see how they could say that ( my opinion).

but now I realize the real reason: it's that the majority of consumers (business excluded) don't really care about features, they just care about what looks good, because most people thinks that when they have something that looks good, it makes them look good and once they feel that they look good it makes them feel good. plus it has some sweet animations to boot.

that's why I was so curious to know why you like the iPhone, to compare it with the other reasons other people told me.

if its about feature, the iPhone lose, so it must be about looks , and yeah it does look good.

I asked my girl why she got the iPhone, she said: because it looks good and everybody is talking about it, lol, she still don't know how to use the phone properly. I didn't even bothered to ask my friend because it's clear, him and his "cool" self. plus on the net and on xbox live, the number one reason I hear is that it looks good.

so from all this I drew the conclusion that most people would rather throw away features for something that looks really good (meant in no way a general statement). I've seen a guy dump a girl who takes care of him really well for another just because the other one looks good (but I digress).

so by this, if a company wants to make money from the average joe/jane all they have to do is make something that looks damn good. yes, also remove the features so it would seem as if it makes things more simpler. then add back these initially removed features in later products little by little, thus making more money in the process. steve jobs or his marketing department are very clever, I saw how they created the "in-crowd" effect.

however, I always wanted to get winmo in that sexy dress the iPhone is wearing, but I think she'd look good in red though :D

(I personified it because my girl always say the my phone is my *****_ because I'm "always on it touching it all over". now I think about it, I think she's the one who's jealous :D)
[Off-topic] enigma1nz:
Well... I fix gadgets like all of yours for a living these days and believe me, I get to play with them all and own and at some stage owned a fair few. People constantly ask me what I recommend and I always have difficulty recommending anything, because it's such an individual thing and yes, the modern consumer likes to go for cute, otherwise we would not be bombarded by pink Hello Kitty rhinestoned cuteness on the next to nothing features.

Want me to tell you what I keep in my personal every day usage? Imate JasJar (HTC Universal) and LG Prada. One because it's the best (IMHO) and another because it looks cool. When it came to LG Prada, I was just lucky to get a broken one for a few bucks, as opposed to $1299 NZD (about $1000 USD at the time), fix it, make it look brand new and keep it, against my better judgement. Honestly, if I'd be one of those unfortunates who paid retail for that sleek fashion candy, I'd cry. As I reply to those asking me what it's like - It's a $300 phone in $1000 Prada wrapper. Never thought I'd go for looks over substance, but I did.

Which is exactly the reason behind the popularity of the Iphone - it's cute, cool and fun to use, nevermind the features (which are actually not too bad).

I compromised, of course, by keeping my WM toys. :p
[Off-topic] _fm:
Agreeee,..... :D

But for that reason too, i didnt buy the iphone,. :D
[Off-topic] rockerrock:
My startup screen. Enjoy.
[Off-topic] Isaygarcia:
thats why i do own a TyTN II and an iPod Touch... (32GB are better than 8 or 16 of an iPhone).

and believe me.. i started to get bored with the ipod.. and im playing more with my tytn II.. again!! XD!