yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] virtualknowledge:
Fanboysm? Go check my profile, i was criticizing the device a few hours ago.

When sth is good, i say good. If bad, then it's bad. (I just checked and one of them is even here above that I wrote what's annoying me, this guy is completely unaware of his surroundings)

When you're squeezed into corner with arguments, you start attacking my personality simply by saying fanboy. This is called 'ad homiem'. You don't even know how to kindly discuss. ;)

BTW you're the one acting like child. Whining under every post, crying like this phone is making yourself life suffer. :)

Even under your post I was kindly suggesting to sell your phone. I wasn't a fanboy then ha? You were like "i tried to sell it but but but but" listing every argument to keep the phone still. Hypocrite! Now you received critics and cry like a river :)

I will block you and I'll block your posts. You're simply a toxic person.

Claiming me as fanboy well you're a hateboy. Never ever seen you say sth good about this. Goodbye. Wasteful human being...
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] virtualknowledge:
Go see psychologist even psychiatrist. You have high level of paranoia. Well that depends on what kind of things you're dealing with the phone of course. ;) otherwise noone will give a damn about your classic photos...

The delusion this guy has drives me nuts.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] franagan75:
I I blocked him a long time ago, I don't go to the forums to read his nonsense but to learn things about phones and help by giving information about firmware updates, etc
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] extremecarver:
Well, how about you first learn to behave yourself!

You attack everyone that did the blind test at versus (and those pics are very hard to attribute to either phone) and say they have no clue about photos? What a snobbish view that you're Taste of photos is superior to theirs.

Photos shot with a phone are meant for majority not connaiseurs in an art exhibition. And pleasing the majority is exactly what is asked by most from smartphone photos. Now x90pp in that sense was very clearly defeated by pixel 8 pro.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] BIGWORM:
Hey all. There is no need to be rude because of differing opinions. Let's keep it clean.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] PILLS2389:
@Killuminati91, if you get the S23 Ultra now, during the launch promotion for ~1300E (512GB), then I think you should get the Samsung.

It will have better value at resell, more updates, you can easily find accesories for it in your country, you won't have to get them from AliExpress and wait 1 month for them to arrive.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] extremecarver:
The s23U 512GB was presale 1169€ including Buds2 in Germany/Austria (with 10% voucher that anyone asking for it got). Corporate Benefits (accessible with a limited company registering you) has it at 1189€.

Some carriers have it on deals that end up around 950€ value vs you getting a contract with less data on the same network in Germany (basically it start at 1350€ overall for 512GB version with 50GB data/month - similar data is gonna be at least 15€ / month. Sim only) .

And yeah the carrier deals show why 1150€ is actually still expensive for S23U. For 1400€ you could get a 2 year contract for free on top...

The Vivo is overpriced like crazy considering its likely overall use time of 3 years without proper support/warranty/slow android updates/short update period.

The vivo x90Pro+ can only compete in China itself with the S23+ due to very different pricing. if you say 800/1200 € or USD is the price for x90 pro+ vs S23U - then it's getting into fair pricing as comparison. In 3 years time likely the resell value of the S23U will still be 300€ over x90 Pro+ (one basically worth nothing then, the other 400). At that point it really becomes preference of UI and camera..

Oh yeah another advantage of S23 - it has battery bypass. The Vivo on the other hand so far doesn't even seem to manage intelligent charging yet (activating it in the menu does nothing for me - nor has anyone said it does work). S23 has various working charge modes (like stopping at 85% and so on. The Vivo instead of bypassing battery at 100% sends out a notification asking to be taken off power... It's countless small details missing or not yet working.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Ramid15@gmail.com:
Ok. i am going to tell my personal experience with x90PP and a short hands on with s23 ultra, which is an incredible phone exactly like the s22u was

1- Camera:

- there is no way s23 camera can produce better pics than x90, its that simple

- even in zoom range ,if its not daylight vivo is better,

- i prefer vivos videos cuz its sharper, but its not conclusive like the photos part

- USE effects and be creative, this phone can produce DSLR quality photos

Battery

- my vivo's battery outlasts my daily driver iphone 14 pro max so for sure its better than s23

- no need to discuss the charging speed, i mean ... come on!

Biometrics:

- comparing both fingerprint and face unlock between these two is a joke, performance is MILES better with vivo

Software experience

i prefer oneui in general and all the useful options it gives but originOS has its own hidden gems, for example Easyshare application on PC and you can mirror wirelessly your phone to your PC Screen. customizing everything, the awesome widgets ,,,,, etc

gaming:

didnt get the chance to play with samsung but daily minimum 2 hours playing marvel future fight, some casual asphalt races and candy crush i can confirm this phone is built for gaming - no heat no lag no dropped frames and most importantly the days with heavy gaming seasions battery lasts minimum 7 to 8 hours SOT

now for unlocking bootloader- personally i dont care

but seriously who wants to unlock their bootloader these days? but if thats what you want. dont buy the vivo

there is no eSim but again "i dont care"

modem and reception and calls quality top notch

now the most important thing: the WOW Factor.

its a head turner, everyone will ask what the hell is this and it gives the this feeling that you have the best device at most of what it does + you are actually the only one have it
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] :
Honestly that's what I have expected so I'm not surprised at all.👍🏻
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Plenty of youtube vids now with the S23U beating the competition - but strangely, no vs x90 pro plus even from reviewers raving about this phone. They suddenly consider the iPhone 14 the one to beat (which of course it does - great Samsung promo).

Knowing the Vivo will crush the S23U particularly in low light, I'm wondering if Samsung paid them off to wait with these reviews while people are preordering like crazy to get the "camera king" :)
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] vendetta17:
Ive seen a review vs pixel 7 pro on a guy i trust . The pixel won . Samsung improved , its true . But its weird that 99% of the reviews are against iphone .

Vivo will easily beat the galaxy . Ben's gadget reviews will do it soon .
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] PILLS2389:
It's not weird, from a youtuber-ul / reviewer point of view it's the correct comparison.

A s23 ultra vs iPhone video will bring you a lot more views than a s23 ultra vs vivo video right now, it doesn't matter if the iPhone is not the phone to beat, if they don't do this video first they will loose views / money.

They will probably do the S23 Ultra vs other phones videos after the iPhone.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Exactly. The iPhone is suddenly the phone to beat, not a single reviewer stepping out of line and pit it against the phone they themselves crowned the camera king. Instead I see, iPhone, one plus, pixel etc.. got a feeling we will see the Samsung beat by Vivo only when pre-order period is over.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Badger50:
Thread lightly purged​

Greetings to all. As a friendly reminder, I will politely ask you all to please be respectful to each other, and let us please stop with the accusations and name calling from

a few members who's post I have removed in accordance with XDA Rule 2.3:

In addition, we Mods would appreciate it if you would just "report" rules violations, rather than reponding to them which usually only makes matters worse.

As the saying goes:

“If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.”​

Thank you all for your cooperation, and a pleasant day to all.

-Regards: Badger50
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
To keep this thread going, can we please not respond to extremecarver?
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Killuminati91:
I think y'all are just a little bit too heated up to defend your 1000€ + purchase, wether its vivo or samsung. The differences get smaller with each generation and both phones are gonna have great cameras ofc. Ive seen video footage of the S23 Ultra, which VISIBLY has some kind of new stabilization system. No minor sensor shifts anymore, which I havent seen on any other phone yet. As video is most important for me, it has 5 years OS updates and official local support the decision was an easy one. On the other hand the vivo takes incredible night pictures, has the 1" sensor, incredible lens coating and Zeiss Bokeh effects and I actually prefer OriginOS looks and functionality. But I cant justify spending 1000€ on a phone that doesnt have full Google Support and a questionable update policy.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] :
Depends on what you want or need. The vivo is the perfect phone i never had.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
A video comparing the S32U with the Vivo has finally emerged

The guy felt the need to add "NO INFLUENCER" in the video title, which seems to support my hunch that during the pre-order period, Samsung has some sort of review embargo on pitting it against the only phone that can dethrone it as the advertised camera king:)

Anyway, lots of image comparisons. First half is daylight, 2nd night.

Some thoughts:

1. While the Vivo generally seems a bit softer, I prefer the less oversharpened look - as a photographer, I like to add sharpening myself if needed. And oversharpened image can't be salvaged.

2. Samsung's big selling point is still the 10x zoom, but Vivo is achieving a near similar result with its larger mp count and clever processing. It achieves 90% of what the Samsung does (IMO)

One of many examples in the video:

Yes, bricks have more texture on the S23U, but in most scenarios the difference will be negligible.

3. There are a few examples where the reviewer did not control the shallow depth of field properly on the Vivo resulting in blurry picture. User error, the Vivo seems to need a bit more attention due to its large sensor - when it nails it, I believe it can outdo the S23U in regards to natural bokeh.

4. Night shots - this is what I was waiting for. Would have loved to see some 100% zooms, but it's pretty obvious that the Vivo trumps the S23U in regards to noise in the non-night mode snaps (night mode is more evenly matched as it enabled to S23U to dial down the ISO and rely on a long shutterspeed - useless in most point & shoot scenarios).

5. HDR in night mode - in spite of the S23U improving on the highlight retention compared to the S22U, the Zeiss coating on the Vivo clearly is far ahead. No phone can touch it. Much more detail in shadow- and highlight areas overall.

6. Zoom lenses in low light - the 10X outshines the Vivo in low light, but the Vivo consistently produces less noise on both zoom lenses.

7. Colour science - unfortunately no people in this video so can't judge the all-important skin tone result.

What we can see though is the generally warmer tone of the Vivo. This could be down to the Zeiss setting, but overall I see no broken colour science on this phone as pointed out ad nauseum by extremecarver.

The advantages of the bigger sensor (65% bigger than on the S23U), is pretty clear.

It's absorbing more light and can get bright images without the need to increase the ISO. The S23U will need a higher ISO setting and/or a slower shutterspeed to achieve anywhere near the brightness of the Vivo. Both scenarios produces an inferior result.

This video looks very promising for people like myself leaning towards purchasing the Vivo for its photography capabilities.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] extremecarver:
Look into the topic of s23u on dpreview forum, the Samsung is classes better on 50 and especially 200MP mode, so there's loads of potential in the sensor. Need to wait at least for 17.02 Day 1 update which by iceuniverse promises big updates to the camera before assessing much. the 200mp pixel Photos are pretty much best out of any stock camera so far, better than vivo 50mp. If Samsung would enable full resolution on camera 2 API many people claim it would be unbeatable. Yeah vivo full resolution on camera 2 would also change a lot seeing that 12.5mp gcam beats 50mp from stock most of the time...

Right now s23u camera clearly has problems.

I only see huge problems of colours in difficult situations of X90 (hard to fix in post) and colours that should be in between vivid and Zeiss otherwise (can be fixed easily in post but bad out of the box). For colours out of the box pixel rules, and apple second.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Is the S23U update going to fix the last gen charging speed?
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] vendetta17:
Best reply ever .
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] mbfamily:
The most important aspect to consider, IMHO, is that the Vivo achieves this with a 3.9x zoom lens, which means at zoom range between 3.9x and 10x the Vivo will produce better images.

Because in "real life", you're much more likely to take 4x or 5x or maybe 7x shots than 10x shots. At these focal lengths, the Samsung can only use its 10MP 3x lens with a tiny 1/3.52" sensor, but the Vivo can use a 1/2" 64MP sensor.

So most of the time for zooming, the Vivo is more useful. Unless you're a bird photographer I guess.

The 10x lens in the S23U is only useful for bragging rights and moon shots, but for a "real life" photographer the Vivo offers by far the more versatile camera, because it can produce good images at ANY zoom up to 10x.

I compared the Vivo to my Sony a6400 mirrorless APS-C with the kit lens at different focal lengths (the a6400 kit lens is 24-75mm full frame equivalent) and honestly, most of the time the Vivo produced more pleasant images with less noise, better dynamic range and the same amount of detail.

TL;DR: The Vivo can replace a mirrorless camera for everyday photography - the Samsung can't, because the lens selection focuses on "bragging rights" instead of versatility.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] :
That's what people will never understand... The vivo is the best camera phone but if you can't handle it it will be crap in your hands.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Interesting point about the zoom.

Indeed, I rarely felt the need for a 10x (or more) zoom, but often could use somewhere in between the fixed focal length and the 10x. But of course I never use that on my P30 pro because digital zoom is terrible.

So just to be clear - the quality of the digital zoom that takes over when you exceed the 3.9x native zoom is all at least as good at the 10x because it's using the large 64mp sensor?

That's a bit of a game-changer nobody talks about!
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Killuminati91:
Shouldnt the pixel size be way larger on the S23 though? 10mp on 1/3.52" sounds larger to me than 64mp on 1/2", but Im too lazy to do the math here. The vivo one is probably binned as well, not sure if that is a pro.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Lexxmark:
I strongly disagree. I was in the store and compared the quality of S23Ultra with my X90 pro plus (200Mp vs 50Mp). So, Samsung has slightly better details (barely noticeable), but much more noise. Thus, I can conclude that 200Mp is just a marketing trick, nothing more. And the Samsung as had a crappy camera, so it still has it!😂
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Lexxmark:
It's not quite true. I also have 90 pro plus and Sony a6400 and can say that Sony has much more details than Vivo, even if we compare 24Mp on Sony and 50Mp on Vivo. As for the noise, you just don't know how to tune the Sony😂
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] :
Yeah I can confirm that the main sensor struggles with a lot of noise.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] mbfamily:
Yes, it's amazingly good up to about 10x. Of course it's just an approximation, but you can do some maths: The 3.9x 64MP sensor's 0.7um pixels are equivalent to 16MP 1.4um pixels, or, for comparison with the S23U, 10MP 2.24um pixels (1.4*16/10).

Now, if go from 3.9x to 7.8x, you need to divide the pixel size by 2, i.e. you're left with an equivalent of 10MP 1.12um pixels.

Now look at the S23U spec sheet: The 10x 10MP lens is 1/3.52" with 1.12um sized pixels.

As a result, you can expect roughly the same image quality from the Vivo at 7.8x zoom compared to the S23U at 10x zoom.

Of course, that means the S23U delivers better images above 10x.

But here's the catch: At 9x zoom, the Samsung can't use its 10x lens! It has to fall back to the 3x lens. Anything between 3.9x and 9.9x => The Vivo wins easily! ;)

So, the S23U is good for bragging rights with moon shots and bird photography and maybe if you plan to spy on people :ROFLMAO:

But it does not offer a "gradual" zoom that you need for everyday photography, that emulates what you would normally be able to do with a DSLR zoom lens - only the Vivo can do that, because of the large high resolution periscope camera.

And what about 1-3.9x? You can do the same maths. The Vivo main sensor for example is 50MP with 1.6um pixels. If you zoom in up to 2x using the main sensor, you're left with 12.5MP 1.6um pixels, and between 2x and 3x the Vivo can use the 2x portrait lens with 12.5MP 1.4um pixels (binned) at 2x and an equivalent of approximately 0.8um pixels at 3x. Compare that to the S23U main sensor's 12.5MP 1.4um (binned) at 2x and approximately 0.6um equivalent at 3x, before the 3x lens kicks in.

It's only between 3x and 3.9x that the S23U has an advantage, where it can use the dedicated 3x lens.

See above :)

Of course it's not that simple, there are a lot of other factors, like lens quality, aperture size and of course the software!

But doing the maths on pixel sizes still usually gives you a good idea about the image quality you can expect from a phone.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] mbfamily:
I wouldn't say lots more detail :p Yes the Sony can produce more detail, but the Vivo gives me 90% of the image quality with 10% the effort and tuning. And it's lighter. So personally I am selling the Sony :ROFLMAO:

My main phone is still an iPhone 14 Pro, because of the software, but I'm keeping the Vivo for photography because I think it's the first phone ever that can actually replace a mirrorless camera (with kit lens). The S23U can't do that.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] :
Well at least it's almost comparable to a mirror less camera. No other phone is in that position.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Great analysis, thank you!

You just gave me the final push to order the Vivo:) At some point I was leaning towards the S23U, but I just wasn't excited - Vivo is special in so many ways, and not something you will see in the hands of others
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] mbfamily:
Definitely. It has a lot of strong points. I think the hardware is perfect in terms of what is possible today, but also, very surprisingly, the OS even "feels" more fluid and natural to use than the iPhone 14 Pro. I think it's the first Android phone ever that actually beats the iPhone in that regard.

BUT it's not a perfect phone at all. You need to be aware that it's a Chinese phone with Chinese software. Many things need a lot of tweaking, debloating, replacing the Chinese apps etc. And some things just won't work, like Android Auto.

I debloated everything except for the OriginOS launcher and the stock camera and then replaced all the apps, even the dialer, with Simple Mobile Tools apps (https://www.simplemobiletools.com/). I think it's quite a nice experience. Another possibility is replacing them with Google apps, you can find Google dialer, calendar, gallery etc. on the Play store.

If you like tweaking and modifying (maybe you do, because you're on XDA devs :)) and you don't care about some things like Android Auto, then the Vivo has a lot to offer, because the hardware is amazing.

But for many people, the S23 certainly would be a better choice.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Finally, thanks!!!!
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Killuminati91:
Take a look at 2:36 when he walks down the stairs. Vivo has the same issues as every other phone before (visible in the wobbling lights, especially on the horizon) while Samsung somehow fixed that. Incredible. Both phones are finally worth an update, I think Samsung is better in video while vivo is on top in photography if you like that DSLR look.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
To be honest, I found this comparison way too superficial. The Vivo excels in low light, but we had no pixel peeping to illustrate the noise difference. I think the low light shots were taken in night mode which is pointless for the purpose of comparing the sensors. Any phone can produce decent looking night shots with a long shutterspeed, not all phones can do it handheld with low noise.

Also, it would be obvious to compare the hdr capabilities, particularly highlight detail in low light to show the zeiss/V2 chip abilities vs the Samsung. Ben certainly didn't step on anyone's toes in this review:)

My biggest takeaway is the awesome depth of field which only a 1" sensor can produce. Sold
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] djshotty:
As far as I'm concerned, if a person buys a smartphone and pays over US$1000 for it, they should be able to utilise every single facet of that device's hardware capability. The reason why I want root access is purely to edit the gps.conf file so I can calibrate the device's compass and GPS chip to be more accurate. One thing's for sure, NONE of the ten Samsung phones I've owned running unbranded stock firmware for my region (Australia/XSA) has EVER been properly linked to the correct GPS pool for Oceania/Australasia, which has always made any navigation app not work too great. I don't exactly care how good the X90 Pro Plus camera is, because it's pretty much a deal breaker if Vivo aren't going to allow BL unlock.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
Still no in-depth comparisons to be found. Well isn't it convenient for Samsung that during the preorder period, reviewers suddenly forgot about the phone they were raving about, and only pit the s23u against phones it can beat...
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] extremecarver:
Yes I've seen that one, but it clearly doesn't have the features of fast connect 7800 like wi-fi 6e/7 but only the features of fast connect 6900.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] djmaxi:
As you said, 6E and 7 are not functional. Even though we shouldn't rule out that it could be a 7800 modem firmware capped. Qualcomm was a launching partner and I don't think they will mislead everyone specially when things like this may have legal, financial and brand image implications.And yes mistakes were made in the past but let's just have a more cautious approach until we can get more solid evidence.

As you, I'm also eager to know more.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] extremecarver:
I cannot find a single exclusive feature of 7800 which would be present on the x90 pro+.

If you find one, then point it out. Yes Qualcomm at some point said x90 pro+ would come with 7800, vivo however never advertised it on their x90 pro+ site. That's why I can only assume it's 6900 (it has all the features of that one and they capped 6e sadly.)

Simply doesn't make sense that it would be 7800. They are both built on the same platform, why cap it then?

I guess they tested it and then saved the money because the main feature, 6g wifi is not approved in China (Xiaomi did use it because wi-fi 7 has some more advantages also without 6g, but 7 isn't ready yet but Xiaomi promised to upgrade it once ready)
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] extremecarver:
Because ant+ is also missing, that exists in China. I tried installing the software for it but it's clearly missing.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] Haskren:
First reviewer to step out of line by admitting Vivo is the better camera phone for photography.
[Vivo X90 Pro Plus] vendetta17:
Bengadgets review said it too .

And btw , this guy its a professional photographer aswell.