yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
The most interesting aspect of this post has been observing how confrontational everybody (except scar45) feels they need to be in their responses, whether they have anything of substance to add or not. I will not take issue with this fact, preferring instead to sit back and let you continue to look cool or knowledgeable in front of the other forum members, or whatever this nasty approach to conversation currently achieves. It's not amusing, but as I say, it is interesting, so carry on.

Of course, you're only winning the favor of the ignorant, as intellectuals can see right through that aggression to the insecurity and ignorance that drive it. When you unnecessarily phrase your responses as attacks, intellectuals see an ignorant person trying really hard to look smart, and you can imagine how pathetic this winds up appearing after 6 paragraphs. Remember, the record of this conversation will likely outlive you, and future generations will judge you based on it. Do you really want them to look back and see what a sad little man you were? No? Then be nice. Try different ways of explaining things. We are here to promote learning, not to detract people from it.

Getting back to the issue, the obvious flaw in your Jack Leung's ROM logic is that phones shipping with UK official ROM specifically claim to not support 850. So installing this ROM to find that 850 still doesn't work, gives us no new information (since we still don't know if it's being blocked at some software level). And since my X1i already shipped with the UK official ROM, this is sure to be the result.

Plus, your assertion that "this frequency is not used in the UK, but not because of the Court decision, so the ROM doesn't turn it off" is pure speculation and thus equally useless (mis)information.

Lastly, we get it, Qualcomm is the problem. That is very insightful of you to point out, and we all now understand that you are familiar with the court decision, and we are very proud of you. Unfortunately, this is unrelated to the question at hand.

If anyone has anything useful to contribute, please speak up.. maybe someone managed to grab Qualcomm's MSMxxx specs before they were removed? Or maybe someone is familiar with devices using the same chip as the X1a and could comment on the video capture capabilities of these devices, possibly helping us to better understand the implementation of the X1a's restrictions. In any event, we need a better understanding of the radio hardware in X1a and X1i, so let's start piecing it together.

The quest for certainty continues..
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] rpereira:
850 MHZ HSDPA in Panama

Ok, so I got my SE X1 a few days ago and it's been running on edge most of the time until about 2 days ago, after rebooting the phone it switched to the 3G network, the "E" became an "H" and i could notice the speed increase. Panama uses 850 Mhz band.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
rpereira - thanks for the post. This means you have the X1a model (a = Americas). The other distinguishing characteristic of this phone is that it will only shoot VGA video at 10fps. We are trying to determine whether the X1i model (i = International) may be coerced into supporting 850MHz, like your device does.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] rpereira:
Poorangus, you're absolutely right. After a second look to my box, it's clearly labled as X1a. Thanks for helping with the clarification :).
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] bruce bruce:
i have an x1i running touch it xperience pb1 rom. Im in los angeles california and my data icon is H.

dont know if this helps, just thought i'd share.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
Bruce bruce - this is also my situation. Fortunately, we are able to use 1900MHz. But I took my X1i for a drive up the coast yesterday, and it dropped to EDGE at least twice. No way of knowing whether 850MHz availability would have affected this.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] bruce bruce:
usually with all my other US 3G phones i have the same problem. example - iPhone, ATT Fuze. when i go to the beach i usually drop to edge coverage.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] ianl8888:
@poorangus

1) The 850Mhz is not used in the UK, EU or most Asian cities because the population densities in these small geographical areas do not need long wavelengths but rather high bandwidth - this has nothing to do with Courts, "speculation" or patent theft but everything to do with hard physics. You are good at abuse but useless at anything that actually requires knowledge. Perhaps you'll argue with velocity = frequency x wavelength next :) ... good luck

2) Your characterisation is thus: "poorangus has bought a 3G lemon and abuses anyone who says the obvious".

3) The X1's sold in the UK are, SE says, capable of all UMTS wavelengths commonly used world-wide (including 850Mhz). SE state that there is NO X1a, X1i etc, only X1. I don't yet know the truth of this, and I've already said so.

4) Reading the US Court decision is simply common-sense. That you refuse to do so, and characterise those who have as "aggro", is truly puerile.

5) Defensive of what ? I'm pi..ed off that HTC, SE et al designed on-going devices based on the Qualcomm CPU's and then got trapped by the patent issue.

If you have grasped 1) above, you will see that Jack Leung's ROM is an acid test for the X1i - is the non-access to 850Mhz hardware or firmware ? But you need to grasp the simple physics first - abusing people who explain it to you doesn't change this.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
Ugh..

"The X1's sold in the UK are, SE says, capable of all UMTS wavelengths commonly used world-wide (including 850Mhz)"

Is this statement actually documented? If so please provide a link. If not, I'm afraid there's nothing "graspworthy" here.

"Defensive of what ? I'm pi..ed off that HTC, SE et al designed on-going devices based on the Qualcomm CPU's..."

Alright man, but don't take it out on me.. Don't you understand how lucky we are to even be able to afford these devices? In the grand scheme, this is piddly ****. Honestly, save the aggression and use of words like "abuse" for when you really need them.. I'm just some schmuck asking a few questions, isn't it easier to just flip to the next message, than to drain all your energy getting all worked up and frustrated? Nothing can change the decisions made by HTC, SE, or Qualcomm. But I think its easier to make the best of them as a community than it is as a tank full of cannibalistic piranhas.

You're not the problem here.. as I said, this is a behavior pattern I'm seeing in many users here that has developed over time. It is a special sort of flaming that takes place more or less automatically.. it's a strange twist for sure.

From what I gather you don't think it's worth having this conversation, and no one is forcing you to reply. Nevertheless, I personally would appreciate your insight in helping us to arrive at a conclusive answer. And if you could try and play nice, even better. There's no need for any of us to continue to obscure our real objectives with further childishness.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] ianl8888:
@poor, silly angus

"Is this statement actually documented? If so please provide a link. If not, I'm afraid there's nothing "graspworthy" here."

I've already stated twice that I don't know the truth of this statement. That this statement has been made is a fact - I have the email - but the fact that the statement exists doesn't make what it says truthful. I expect to know first-hand in a few weeks.

You assume I'm "worked up" ... wildly inaccurate, even vain. But you need to take note of facts. This includes the fact that the 850Mhz UMTS frequency is not used in densely-populated, geographically small cities. Each time I, and other people, have given you a fact your reply has ignored it in favour of silly, politically correct Nembutals. Perhaps you prefer that to hard fact.

I prefer to deal with people who grasp reality.

That's why this is pointless. If you dealt with facts, such as the use of the 850Mhz frequency for wider, more sparsely populated areas, or the unpleasant global consequences of Qualcomm's convicted patent theft, then we could progress.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
Just so everyone knows, I hereby acknowledge the use of the 850Mhz frequency for wider, more sparsely populated areas, as well as the unpleasant global consequences of Qualcomm's convicted patent theft.

Moving on.. What I'd like to do is flash an X1i with an X1a radio. I'd assumed this had to have been attempted already, but given the lack of X1a ROMs floating around, I am beginning to wonder. Hopefully someone will post one soon so we can extract the radio and try it. I have about a week to play with this device, after which I'll have to decide whether or not to return it. So... X1a owners... hint hint.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] ianl8888:
"What I'd like to do is flash an X1i with an X1a radio."

Better ... despite the silly, superficial sarcasm. Then you can decide. Using Jack L's basic 1.04 ROM as well removes any possibility of firmware limitation within the O/S, leaving only the hardware.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
I think I see a factor in our disagreement. You think that because there is no legal need to implement a restriction, that the restriction won't be implemented.

I'm saying it's more cost-effective to restrict an entire group of units, than it is to restrict some units and not restrict others, regardless of what the manufacturer may be allowed to not restrict.

I think we can agree, however, that we can't know for sure until we try it.

Regarding Jack L., are you saying that he has replaced WM components in the SE ROM with virgin components straight from Microsoft? If this is the case, I totally see your point. If not, then I appreciate the relative virginity of his ROM as a testbed, but maintain that we can't be certain that it won't play a role in restricting hardware features.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
I am encouraged by the following two documents:

http://pdfserv.datasheetpro.com/QUALCOMM/msm7200a_chipset.pdf

http://pdfserv.datasheetpro.com/QUALCOMM/rtr6285.pdf

These are data sheets for X1i's CPU and radio hardware, respectively. What I gather from these pages is that the X1i's band restrictions are almost certainly being imposed in the radio ROM. Please tell me if I'm missing something.

On a side note, a lot of the pessimism surrounding this issue stems from the fact that attempts to unlock UMTS bands on other HTC phones have failed. The difference with Xperia (and pleeeease correct me if I'm wrong, I wasn't around for those conversations) -- is that we actually have an example US Radio ROM to work with (X1a) that unlocks the desired band, whereas previous attempts relied on our ability to hack the restricted ROM.

I think I'll hold on to the X1i .. I'm becoming pretty confident this will eventually happen.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] fards:
I think youre missing the point.

There have been plenty of attempts to use american radios with non american devices before, from what I understand they havent worked.

My understanding is that the american devices use the 7201a and the rest of the world the 7200 a
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
Well, my understanding is that the sooner we actually try it, the sooner I'll shut up about it.

Let's see the X1a ROM.

Oh, and read what the documents linked to in my previous message state regarding supported UMTS bands.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] fards:
Have you tried the RIL cab that Jack found in the x1a rom?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] Stimpy0030:
Maybe we should start collecting money

I am new here, but have been doing this sort fo thing for a while.... I can't see what is teh problem on testing that once and for all... maybe for the sake of all of those who are debating with the i or A we should pay soemone to test teh d*** thing !!!
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] mffu:
well, I've got the Radio from b19949 which to my understanding is 1.04. I also have the 1.02.25.27 from ATT Fuze and 1.09.25.23 from Diamond

I used the RomBaker and HTC Rom Tool to make it work on xperia. Though after flashing all three of them, the Radio info on xperia never changed. It said 1.06.26.29/ However, the size of Rom was 19.7; 20.0 and 20.4 respectively. All flashes were successfull ("Congratulations" message poped up when finished)

I am currently on b19949 radio and my reception in Charlotte, NC is slightly improved. I wonder if someone from 850UMTS coverage area could test them also. We may have the luck we're seeking for.

I will upload the Roms later in the evening 'cos I'm at work yet.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] scar45:
Hey mffu, so do you have an X1i or X1a? Also, are you in a predominantly 1900mhz UMTS area? It would be good to know by verifying what you see when you run "FieldTest.exe" in the \Windows directory (need to use something like Total Commander to view/run the file).

I have an X1i, and while I used to cook and flash ROMs on my Universal, I have been weary to do so on my X1. It is running really nice (with the exception of poor battery performance), and it would be even nicer to have 850UMTS.

I still do have doubts about this though...also, if you don't mind, what is the _general_ process involved with flashing the Radio ROM on an X1? I suppose I'll need to install HardSPL and flash only the radio.nbk file?

Looking forward to hearing more about your setup, and if it can help any of us X1i users in 850UMTS areas...

Thanks in advance!
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] ianl8888:
@poorangus

"You think that because there is no legal need to implement a restriction, that the restriction won't be implemented."

Actually, I know it won't - because there are many other countries using the UMTS 850Mhz besides the US. It means you can purchase a device in a country NOT under US Court injunction with an operating 850Mhz frequency and use it for 3G somewhere else (on work projects etc). This is why I commented about US residents importing unrestricted devices to get around the Court injunction maybe subject to US Customs action - I don't know.

We went through exactly all of this over 12 months ago with the Polaris.

And yes, my point about J L's 1.04 ROM is that he has cleaned it of all the SE crap, so if you combine it with a radio ROM you know has an operating 850Mhz and your Xli still won't play, then it is a hardware issue.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] mffu:
I have an X1i with UK generic shipped Rom. Here in Charlotte, NC we use 1900 UMTS as far as I know.

I access the Field Test by dialing *#*#364#*#*

Now Radio flashing takes about a minute or two depending on your PC resources.

I personally have my doubs about the GSM module support too, especially considering fact that MSM7200A uses different Radio Frequency and Power Management configurations . But at this time we simply lack of info on which PM our x1i has in presence (PM6550 or 7540) It would make difference for us if it is 7540 since it has phisical switch that supports all GSM/UMTS bands.

Also has anybody desovered anything about the RIL patch extracted from x1a? What is it about at all?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] fards:
No thats why I want someone to test it :D
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] mffu:
Here's the link for the Roms. Remember to HardSPL first or you may easily brick your phone. The enclosed CustomRUU will not hard reset your device!!!!

http://www.4shared.com/file/75157477/41406b1f/Radio_ROMs_for_xperia.html
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
Well, this is a good start.. Our inability to identify the hardware is still our biggest roadblock -- knowing PM6550 vs 7540 would be huge, and I'm hoping some badass will step in and clear that up. I don't suppose those videos of the Xperia dissection floating around offer any clues?

mffu - thanks for taking the time to post these! Just to be clear, what exactly do we know about the UMTS 850 support of the devices behind these radios? Obviously we can be certain about the fuze, but what about the Xperia prototype and the Diamond?

Thanks again!
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] charly_mx:
Im a Diamond user. But as far as i have seen both the experia and the diamond use the same microprocessor. I have the european version so i cannot use american 3G which is a shame. Im really looking forward for a ROM update but still no one has found anything. I also think that people are not really looking into it because there is a US version already in the shelfs.

best regards.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] mffu:
what exactly do we know about the UMTS 850 support of the devices behind these radios? Obviously we can be certain about the fuze, but what about the Xperia prototype and the Diamond?

Thanks again![/QUOTE]

Not much info about the prototype in respect whether it supports all bands or just a certain combination. The first speculations on xperia back in the days was that it would support everything. Now as we see today it is cripled.

The Diamond Radio is the newest from the Australian Hutchinson. I also found out that Raphael users flashed their devices with the xperia's 1.06 radio. What does it tell us?

Has anybody tried the radios yet?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] edwardxin:
Not much info about the prototype in respect whether it supports all bands or just a certain combination. The first speculations on xperia back in the days was that it would support everything. Now as we see today it is cripled.

The Diamond Radio is the newest from the Australian Hutchinson. I also found out that Raphael users flashed their devices with the xperia's 1.06 radio. What does it tell us?

Has anybody tried the radios yet?[/QUOTE]

yes.... i did flash that rom into my phone...

what i need to do next?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
I got an european Xperia X1i

It IS working with my 850MHz local operator in Latin America

GSM EDGE 850MHz band

My operator uses both GSM and UMTS in 850MHz band only

UMTS 850MHz is listed on my phone,

but even when I change from "auto" to "manual" it keeps picking GSM instead
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] ianl8888:
Which radio ROM, please ? I imagine it is the standard X1i ROM but if you could list the version, please.

The fact that your device responds only to 850Mhz GSM still may be either the radio ROM or hardware.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
My Radio ROM is 1.06.25.29

European X1i Xperia, english ROM version 1.02.931.3

Please note: I'm on 850MHz "GSM EDGE" only

My provider offers GSM/EDGE and UMTS both in the 850MHz band.

I can't connect to the UMTS 850MHz signal
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] BioVolt:
Hi, I have the X1i in the UK..

I would like to try and help but as I dont understand fully what I am looking for in terms of all the different bands etc... I dont know what information to supply..

However... My device connects with "H" and states HSDPA connection active 80% of the time...and I have even see it connect on "G" and of course "E"...

Now which one is the one we are trying to test? to see if it works, so i can confirm if it is working or not...

Secondly...I ran Fieldtest.exe but with soo many pages of information in that actual program I am unsure of what information i am looking for in there...Let me know and i will post results...

As i said would like to help, but I am new to pda's/xda's only got my x1 for 2 weeks now...been customizing...and learning...as i go along...

Hope I can be of service

Cheers
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] poorangus:
Just to let y'all know where I'm at with this .. Having researched this problem from an architectural standpoint, I admit I no longer hold much hope.

The recurring problem is confusion between ability of hardware and software to support or facilitate certain UMTS frequencies, and existence of hardware to physically offer their use.

Take this link for example.

The "other forum" referred to isn't indexed by Google, unfortunately.

But as we continue to paint this picture, it would seem that the design of the prototype X1 units, containing the acpm-7371 (thus supporting 900 and not 850), would go on to become the X1i. This makes sense for many reasons, including the fact that there is currently a disproportionate amount of technical documentation specific to the X1i. The X1a, from a design standpoint, seems like something of an afterthought. This is only significant because it suggests that if there is any mystery, it's likely confined to the X1a, which is not what we were hoping for.

So I've personally resolved to go with the X1a and moan every time I capture video. The hero may wind up being whoever describes a simple hardware modification to the X1i which will achieve our goal. The next great phone, however, is likely to come long before that ever happens.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
I AM WILLING TO TRY :cool:

If somebody can provide the X1A radio I am willing to put it into my X1i to see what happens

My carrier uses 850MHz only, so after falshing a new radio I can quickly find out if my Xperia connects UMTS 850 or not

If've been experimenting with a couple of diamond radios and nothing... GSM 850 only

PLEASE, ANYBODY WITH A X1A RADIO ??

AT LEAST THE RADIO VERSION ON THE X1A ??
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] xmoo:
My Xperia has.

GSM: 850/900/1800/1900

UMTS: EU1/US2/EU8
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] kiena:
I have and X1i with Generic UK Rom v 1.02.931.3 and Radio 1.06.25.29, and ATT is the service provider which uses 850 for 3G in the States... Phone always shows H and my band selection is on automatic... But, and I speedtested the data connection comparing to my Nokia e71 with 3G support and i get faster down speed, but upload is slower. The only time i get Edge is when im in the known area without 3G coverage
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
go to your dialpad (as if you were to dial a phone number)

dial *#*#364#*#*

this puts your phone in "fieltest" mode

there you can check which is your active band, your current connection
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
X1i 850 MHz UMTS UPDATE (my last word on this, I think)

I have been flashing several ROMs (including the X1A ROM) and dozens of radios

None of them, neither any combination of radios and ROMs enabled UMTS 850MHz signal

Angelusz seems to be right: this is a hardware issue

I am getting a X1A next week

Bye bye X1i (maybe I'll keep it for testing purposes)
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] stepw:
gtrab, since your "hobby" is related to cell communications, do you perhaps have an RF meter? If so, you should be able to confirm whether a signal emanates from X1i at 850MHz when appropriate UMTS band is enabled and GSM band is disabled. This should either confirm or disprove your conclusions.

Willing to try?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
Good point. I don't have any RF meter, I'll ask for one.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] michaelthemage:
Nice...and HOW do you put it out of it again?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] stepw:
It just starts a program, you can close it afterwards.
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] rmannuni:
I have the X1i and did the fieldtest above. I'm in Hawaii with AT&T which has 3g here that I used for awhile with the BJ II.

The fieldtest above shows band as "3: 850" which I assume to mean 850hz but I am only connected on EDGE. I have never been able to connect with 3g and the x1i. any hints?
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] gtrab:
I have the same problem: my operator works in 850MHZ and I only get EDGE on my X1i. This is because the "X1i" is 850MHz GSM-only (no 850 MHz 3G UMTS-WCDMA, 3.5G HSDPA).

I am 99% sure I will never access 850MHz 3G with this X1i phone because I have done one thousand tests with multiple ROMs and RADIOS but nothing... quantum of solace my fellow dude...

The X1A does support 850MHz 3G. Seems like the difference lies beneath the harware (different chipsets), thus I have already ordered an X1A.

The internet bandwith difference between EDGE and HSDPA is tremendous, and I like it bleeding-edge FAST :rolleyes: nothing less
[XPERIA X1 ROM Development] michaelthemage:
Great, thank you. Just checked it out and any info what this 'Groups' means? Select different things to show settings?

Is there a way to CHANGE anything on purpose or by accident?

Thanks