yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
I suspect it's easier to get Obamma to listen to you, than Qualcomm
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuke1:
ROFL!

Yes Qualcomm have been deceiving, snide assholes, and still put on their sh!t-show. Their game is all lies if you've been following their press conferences for the past year or so. So here's to hoping their Snapdragon dies already.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Hamstah:
HTC have (through email correspondance) stated that they plan to release a TP rom upgrade which should speed up the GPS lock (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=474449)

Perhaps that ROM will include graphics enchancements? And if not, it looks as though HTC are, to some degree, willing to release fixes for such issues - perhaps this ROM upgrade can be used as leverage to get them to look into the graphical issues?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
don't expect too much
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] j11eck:
JUst a small question, if the touch pro is ok, but not that great. SHould I just stay with my Tilt (Kaiser) until something better comes along? Any advice? I use the phone for music, photo's, games (very limited and simple games), and talking...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuke1:
This is not thread-related, but let me help out: just wait for next month where HTC will make announcements on MWC09. If you don't like anything there (I doubt it), then prices of all current handsets will have dropped as well.

Back on topic!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] j11eck:
Thanks

So how do people get the manufacturer to provide what they want, when it is not in the realm of impossibilities, but the company hasn't thus far?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuke1:
I guess your question is driver-related now. If so, then asking Qualcomm would be fruitless imho. What really needs to be done is developer effort, whether we like it or not. The best attempt thus far is in this thread.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] jakirkla:
No complaints on video performance for me

I use Nero (Nero Recode) to convert DVD's I own into MP4 files. I use the Standard Profile, which is approximately VGA res and I use a bit rate of 1.1 Mbps. The videos look very sharp on the Touch Pro and play smoothly in Coreplayer 1.3 using the QTV video option.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuke1:
This might pique DSF's interest:

I flashed a WM6.5 ROM, by itje on my Diam.

- With this I can confidently say that CoD2 has never functioned better. Heck, I could make a new topic about this. My Diamond has officially conquered CoD2. Think of it this way: you get a new PC and then you load a 2 or 3 year old game, not expecting your PC to be able to glide through the gfx on full detail and highest res, but guess what, your machine rips that game apart! That's how fast CoD2 works. So far, all the h/w accelerated vids on youtube up till (as of) today 27/01/09, none show how the Diamond obliterates CoD2.

- THPS2 was the same for me. It functions near-enough perfect on high gfx, but can get sluggish at times on highest.

- Games by PDAmill seemed to show an improvement in gfx. The only PDAmill games I've bought from the time of my Touch is Arvale 1 and 2 and Flux Challenge. All were fully smooth (though they weren't tooo bad before).

- Rayman Ultimate was better with landscape redraw.

Anyhow pre-beta 6.5 is still too buggy for daily usage, so the next best thing was 2.03 that brought landscape redraw improvements (as Da_G helpfully told me).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] r4ster:
So, can we use the provided d3d drivers (the one in first post) on our touch pros ?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] warenbe:
you can install the ati drivers yes it give a boost!

edit: don't copy the 2dll given, just install the d3d ati driver

i've copied the 2 dll and now touch flo 3d don't worl anymore.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Wishmaster89:
That could mean that in the end drivers problem could be related to OS itself...

Lets see what final version will bring
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] rexian:
Or MS has worked with some vendors (ATI in this case) and included the updated drivers with the OS like Windows 7 Beta 1, which has many updated drivers on the disk itself.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Spiderm@n_:
Well, my Touch Pro is a slow turtle, compared to my old TyTN. Useing the hardware acceleration and AC/DC - Thunderstruck (320*240 250kbps DivX 6 Mobile profile) it shows 3 times less performance. On the other hand Metallica - The Day that never comes (640*480 500kbps DivX 6 Mobile profile) can't ever be played on TyTN, and on Touch Pro shows about 105% with Smooth Zoom and Dither on.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] incisivekeith:
I got my Fuze on Monday, and since then, I have been configuring it day and night.:) I have kept the stock ROM as I would like to have the warranty intact. I am assuming that the configuration changes using AdvancedConfig are applicable to stock ROMs too. Please correct me if I am wrong. With that assumption, I have made a few changes using AdvancedConfig (AC). Two of the most important changes I needed were the finger pressure and screen sensitivity (threshold). I set them both "Very high," but I haven't noticed much difference in the sensitivity and the amount of pressure I need to apply with my finger. Am I missing something? Thanks.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] misfitwrx:
regarding the video performance, i think i read in a post where someone talked to htc and they said something to the effect that you have to convert any video you want to watch to the correct vga resolution, or else the device will try and convert the while its playing thus making it slow as ****. i tend to believe it because some videos in near hd quality play perfect while some videos that are less quality play like crap
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
Thanks for your input. Try Rats (which is also a PDAmill release), free trial available at http://clickgamer.com/download.htm?pvid=15358.

Here's how THPS2 and COD2 are working on touch pro (romeos rom):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvLuubK0DjE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMwt016wkLk

I've opened a topic about Qualcomm - numbers, promises and lies because the graphics perf. issue is not limited to touch pro.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bountygiver:
according to the benchmark... i believe its because of the resoultion

touch pro resolution = VGA

omnia resolution <<< QVGA
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] :
ok, so for those of us who have just arrived and dont have time to read all 24 pages of this thread (sorry its late and i hav work tmmrw)..

currently, whats the best thing we can do to improve video and 3d performance on htc touch pro???

the thread author could do with summarising results found so far in the first post
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] werD:
Here's two notes that should really get you wondering WTF!

I just wonder how strategic that partnership was

Qualcomm Press Release from... >2004<

So(around the kaiser release) to license graphics drivers HTC would be paying Qualcomm who would be Paying Ati who was being engulfed by AMD. Im sure this was a licensing mess.

Now recently i think Qualcomm has just gotten tired of messing with AMD, who obviously isn't keen on dumping money(or losing it on licensing) into their mobile graphics right now.

Qualcomm buys mobile graphics division of ATI

So HTC seems to be standardizing a lot of handsets on this chipset making Qualcomm's purchase of the ati embedded graphics div a real potential value adder for all of us. ie. There's a large base for these devicess to be optimised for already waiting for them and a hopefully much simplified license structure ready to make the deal MUCH better for Qualcomm and cheaper for HTC.

So, lets hope that people aren't just out throwing money at nothing and that there are some smart people looking to make some big waves with some up and coming releases.

I think the very first steps were made when HTC publicly admitted that wrtiting video drivers is hard(read: Kaiser Madness) ;) That was probably followed up with some bickering about licensing drivers through the Qualcomm/ATI/AMD mess.. But soon after HTC announced about 10 more devices based on the chipset and Qualcomm announced aquisition of ATI, hmmm. Food for thought/dreams.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Mutiny32:
Knowing Qualcomm, they'll probably try to litigate and strongarm IP rather than care about graphics performance. But on the other hand, this is a smart move for Qualcomm, because nVidia is impeding upon Qualcomm's HTC dominance. ATI has never been very forthcoming about driver development or specs for open development; whereas nVidia actually helps open driver development.

Qualcomm sees the future, and it isn't Windows Mobile. As long as a company like ATI owns the IP for the graphics technology in their ARM implementation, they can't be competitive.

I hate Qualcomm, but I have to give them props for being able to see the writing on the wall and taking the necessary steps to stay competitive in the future against other ARM licensees wanting a piece of the MID market. It's even smarter because AMD is doing their best to keep their head above water and selling off divisions who don't benefit their core business; desktop/workstation graphics (ATI) and x86 desktop/server processors.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
I agree with some of what you write but "the future isn't WM" is a bit far fetched.

MS hasn't shown all the cards (and the cards they hold are not necessarily WM7).

They are too powerful to "just quit".
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] szczeslaw:
Well, that's BS. NVidia don't give a damn about users and driver developement for mobile devices. Just google for info on GoForce5500 or devices based on it (Toshiba G900, XDA Flame and others). There is no drivers for GF5500 and nVidia didn't even want to reply to our petition. Guys from CorePlayer tried to get SDK from nVidia. Guess what? Nope, no success.

So don't tell me, that nVidia helps in driver developement...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Metallic-Force:
Does this really matter now?

We have been screwed already with the tytn II (Tilt) and now a new model that seriously underperforms... again.

I really want the expandability of Windows Mobile, but this is getting on my nerves.

What I really think is, this is how it is suppose to perform, there is nothing missing, you can only optomise it's drivers, cpu, mem usage...etc

But the processor it-self is quite terrible, that it simply can't do all it "said" it can.

My last qualcomm phone this generation.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bedoig:
I agree. Qualcomm's last few chips have made me skeptical about SnapDragon as well. I'm definetly not going to be an early adopter for that platform after Qualcomm's recent policy of over-promising and under-performing. We'll see how things pan out, but I feel like I'm ready for a change...maybe Tegra is in my future. Although, unfortunately, it really boils down to which devices my provider chooses to carry.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Metallic-Force:
I'm just so disappointed by the lies we've been fed. Qualcomm seriously has some problems on it's hands, because sooner or later, HTC will stop using them, they already lost Sony as a partner because of the total performance disappointment and the casing breakage HTC has cauzed. So things next generation are definitely going to change, I already have seen some of the newer phones, they look very sleek with much bigger screens, but none of that matters because the hardware might be just another Arm 11 from Qualf***ingCOMM

I'm quite a hater of provider contracts, so if I buy any phone, I buy it right out. The Fuze I have is from At&t and I use it in Canada for FIDO. I never know where i'm going to be every few months, so I need to keep switching providers.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NuShrike:
It's too bad these are totally integrated devices. If it was customer configurable as the PC is, we could vote directly with our purchases and avoid any Qualcomm-based "video cards".
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Kirakira:
If i understand good, we are definitely screwed for video performance because Qualcomm chip is crap ?

Or could HTC resolve the problem with new drivers ?

Or is it possible to someone to create a fix ? :D

I just found this article : http://www.coolsmartphone.com/news3805.html

An other :http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/possible_htc_driver_issue_spur.html

http://www.htcclassaction.org/responses.php
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Ranger093:
....

HTC does too use the ATI chip in the New MSM7xxx phones AKA:Touch Pro, HD. The problem is is that most programs are not optimized for the ARM based hardware.... For instance take the Idiamond UI skin for TF3d. It uses the 3d chip for some Animations. However it is designed for the ARM cpu and most of the 2d Operations take place on the ARM CPU. This sucks because most programs are not Natively designed for the MSM chips if they were you would see programs like S2U2 and such running AMAZING on the TP.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuke1:
That Coolsmartphone.com article is over a year old and is talking about the Kaiser, Polaris and Niki generation of MSM7200 phones. The HD is advertised as a video-playing device, and is unable to do it in adequate fashion. If they can release a driver for HD, then the dilemma with the Raphael and Diamond can be solved as well, as they all feature the same chipset.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] JoeTheFro:
Here is a good question. The HTC Dream has the same CPU as the Raph. Do we know of anyone that has run similar tests to see what kind of performance that it gets? Or despite the same CPU, is it not even worth attempting a comparison?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nik3r:
Possible source for drivers

Hey,

I recently saw HP iPAQ Data Messenger on some web and noticed it has Qualcomm 7201A as well, ony differs in QVGA display. Since I doubt HP would make a release without properly working drivers, is it teoretically possible to dump their ROM and extract the necessary stuff for RAPH/DIAM?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] l3laze24:
HELLO

Hi all, nothing like an informal introduction. I believe this is actually my first post but i have been a member on this site and reading on all the articles on xda/ppc geeks for a long time. Im actually an AT&T employee, and store manager of an authorized retailer...

with that said i also have e-mailed HTC.- Their BS Reply back=

Hello Shayne,

Thank you for your inquiry about the AT&T Fuze.

I understand how important it is to get the most out of your phone. Due to the fact that the product is a mobile phone, it is best to use media that is optimized for playback on Windows Mobile phones. If you have running programs or third party software on the device, it may interfere with the normal operations and produce poor playback. When watching videos, I recommend using the native codec and file type. The phone records natively in the H.264 codec in the .3g2 or .3gp file type, and I recommend converting your videos to that format and codec. There are no tweaks or settings that I can suggest to change to improve video response.

Shayne, I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

HTC Technical Support

http://www.america.htc.com

http://www.htcwiki.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Looking forward to join the fight against HTC and have a 100% Touch Pro.

IF THERE IS ANYTHING ANYONE needs to know about how AT&T does things/warranties/ or anything else related feel free to ask or PM me.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] r4ster:
Seems, that the TP 2 and Diamond 2 also lack of video drivers.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
how do you know (btw I am skipping THAT generation - hate it)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] werD:
Well their newest devices all use the same chipset, so unless through a miracle Qualcomm and htc gives us something for our current devices, its unlikely the new ones will have it either. I recall a note from htc stating they had plans to release a video optimized device, but im seriously beginning to think that they think the community is gonna do it for them.. I say we bite the hand that feeds us so it will stop being able to feed itself on broken promises..

Seriously, I love my fuze and i can make do with reencoding video, but the 2d drawing performance is pretty upsetting
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bedoig:
The only problem is that HTC has been (almost) the only one producing interesting devices recently. Although, with all the cool stuff coming out at MWC this year, we might have a better selection from other manufacturers in the future. I'll be skipping the second generation Diamond/Pro and waiting for something based on one of the handful of recently announced, ultra-powerful new chipsets (Nvidia, TI, etc). I'd love the screen on the TP2, but that's about it.

Werd (:)). iGO8 is like watching a slideshow!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] naimed:
Diamond 2 is also crippled

Thats Correct! I watched a demo of windows mobile 6.5 on the Diamond2 and when the guy showed Internet Explore app on the phone. It was very slow. When he zoomed in and moved the page from left to right, the chesspatern occured.. exactly the same what happens on my Touch Pro in Opera.. Witch tells me there is a problem with videodrivers..:mad:

Video: http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/255/
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] werD:
Agreed. Ill keep hacking my fuze until something comes out with Tegra by Nvidia or comparable performance.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
In fact I would't call them "2".

I would call them 1.5.

In no way the difference between TuTN II and TP.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] ITAdmin:
Well, I am glad I did some more research before putting out $300.00 on an AT&T Fuze! I tried like HELL to get them to drop the price for me since my Tilt is falling apart after 17months of use.

So what to do now? I guess I will keep using the Tilt until something better comes along? I was REALLY looking forward to the video out feature of the TP as i have to sometimes sit in my vehicle for extended periods of time and I use the Tilt to run my SlingBox which for the most part, it does fine, but to be able to plug it into my AVIC-D3 and watch the video on the bigger screen would be the best scenario.

Is there anything new in the wind that will do what the TP does and do it well? I know there's ALWAYS a newer model in the pipeline and wonder if I should just grin and bear the TP or wait for something better and HOPE it does what the TP does?

After reading several threads here tonight, I AM going to go and look to see whats been cooked up for my Tilt. I still have WM6 on it and haven't really modified the ROM, just added some apps to make the audio and video play better, and also the A2DP & TCMPC(?) files to make the bluetooth connect correctly. I guess now that it's out of warranty, I can mess around with it!!!

I hope I haven't gotten off point here and if I have, I sincerely apologize!

Thanks VERY much for all the great info and files, ROM's Etc!

ITAdmin
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NuShrike:
You can try checking out the newly announced Acer M900. All the specs of the Touch HD and none of the bad Qualcomm parts.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] ITAdmin:
Well, the big feature I found that the TP had that I am willing to wait for is the video out which the Acer doesn't do :-( Otherwise, I think it's looks like a sweet device! Also the fact no one here would be discussing it and I REALLY like being here with all the great people this forum attracts!

Oh well, I guess I have to spiff up the Tilt!!

Thanks for the help tho...

ITAdmin
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bedoig:
OmniaHD looks nice too.

To be honest I've never really used the video out on my Pro. It's hard to go back to crappy 480i, RCA-cable quality these days. 720p over HDMI might be actually useful for a portable media device.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] colin725:
The fuze is only $200 from AT&T if you have an upgrade available. It changes on the site from $300 if you log in.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] ITAdmin:
Well, it shows $299.99 for me after a $50.00 rebate. I even called them and haggled over the price but they won't budge, even being a 10 year customer!! And I AM eligible for an upgrade!

2-Year Service

Retail Price $499.99

Online Discount - $150.00

Total Due Today $349.99

Mail-in Rebate via AT&T Promotion Card - $50.00

Price After Mail-in Rebate $299.99

You Save $200.00

Oh well...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] werD:
Go to newegg.com...175 after 25 rebate for a 2yr contract renewal. I paid 199 from wirefly.com for the exact same thing. NEVER go to an att store(online or not) to get a new phone or renew your contract.

On a side note.. i use the heck out of the video out in two different cars and at my friends house, and its not too shabby. In fact, I encoded an HD episode of Flight of the Conchords with the encoding tool stickied in this forum and played it at my friends and he thought it was coming from his PC until it was over and WMP showed back up.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] ITAdmin:
Ok, well I have an existing account with AT&T so I guess it will cost me $225.00, BUT...

They want me to change my plan and if I change it to what they have that is the closest plan to what I have now, it will cost me $15.00 a month more than my existing plan, so I will eventually end up paying MORE in the long run. They don't have unlimited text in the unlimted data plan, so that's extra. And one more thing, Wirefly has soooo many complaints against them for not paying the rebates, I wouldn't touch them if they gave me the phone for free... Just do a google search on Wirefly complaints and be sitting down when you do...

Oh well, I'm gonna soup up the Tilt and see if I can get another 6 months out of it and see what new phones come out by then...

Thanks for the help tho...

ITAdmin
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] starsbravo:
I had my phone for 1 day, I still dont know how to use it and after reading all this stuff now im Dissapointed, I dont plan to do gaming, but id really love cool interfacez and fast response, can I still have that?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] werD:
This is all way off topic neway but

I have an existing account and got more minutes for less $$ this time... Ive gotten both rebates from wirefly each time(wizard/fuze). Plus newegg is on the straight and narrow as well. take your time and call if you have to.

i use im or push email. sms is redundant to me anyway
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] werD:
make sure you install the drivers posted(or some drivers at least) and try out TouchFlo Detacher to get the best of both worlds. Definitely encode your video for your phone and you should be good to go
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] ITAdmin:
Thanks for the info! I will give newegg a try as I thought it was wirefly behind the scenes as the webpages were exactly the same. I have an extremely good plan with AT&T and don't want to make things worse. I have done a lot of business with Newegg and they have a good rep with me.

I DO appreciate the help!

ITAdmin
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] TddHtc:
Hi all,

i just bought my HTC pro and thinks it quite slowly.

I bought it to get rid of my slow nokia but this is even worse.

I downloaded the drivers but have no experience how to install something like that.

Anyone has advice??

Thanks in advance
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] JoeTheFro:
Ok, first thing is that the drivers will not do much for you. Assuming your phone is new and its your first time here, your best bet is to install a new ROM without the bloat of stock stuff.

Start reading here : http://xdaforums.com//showthread.php?t=448008

Then pick a ROM and install using the info from the above link. I personally use the NaTF Fuze ROM v4.4. It runs like a champ for me.

Good luck...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] TddHtc:
Thanks.

I am all new to HTC and its possibilities.

I know quite some stuff from PC's but are a little bit scared flashing the new HTC. I don't know what it will do with my warranty for example....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] majortom1981:
The easiest thing will be to remove all the att stuff. This doesnt require a flash. use the utility to return your fuze to stock . then when it goes to install the att stuff restart the fuze via the pinhole on the bottom.

This will stop it from installing the att stuff . This way you still have the stock firmware without the att stuff that slows it down.