yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xiaomi Mi 11] leonciot:
the developer has abandoned us, we will have to look for another rom.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] leonciot:
Because no one knows anything about the developer, what happened to him?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] leonciot:
It's a shame because this rom was the best
[Xiaomi Mi 11] primazz:
https://get.pixelexperience.org/venus
[Xiaomi Mi 11] vazarg:
Hello,

Can you say if the PE 14 is ok for daily use because it's a beta.

I wan't replace xiaomi.eu rom but i use my phone for the job.

Thank you all.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Sage:
If you want stable go a13
[Xiaomi Mi 11] primazz:
Haven´t tried the Beta myself. If i was using my phone for work id stay on stock. But im pretty sure that beta works fine, just test calls and mobile data after install
[Xiaomi Mi 11] leonciot:
I'm trying this rom and it works great. I have seen that contactless payments fail, whatever is missing I will report
[Xiaomi Mi 11] leonciot:
thanks to the developer for his great work
[Xiaomi Mi 11] vazarg:
Hello, Can you Say if vowifi and volte is ok ? Thank you
[Xiaomi Mi 11] leonciot:
yes, it works for me
[Xiaomi Mi 11] vazarg:
Thank you, i test this week the rom.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] vazarg:
Hello,

Install :

My phone is allready on xiaomi.eu

I have download twrp Android 14 from xiaomi.eu for venus phone

Reboot recovery

Format data

Install rom pe 14

Reboot system

All is perfect

Widevine L1 is ok with pe14 (test with Netflix)

Bluetooth is ok with my car

2 sim ok, 5g ok

My Huawei watch GT 2 is ok

Wifi 6 perfect, test nperf 1100mb (fiber 2gb)

Phone is not hot when call and game

For the moment little problem is app not in full screen, i don't find option for full screen the application.

I say After more days when is the battery.

Thank you.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] vazarg:
Hello,

phone always fluid under PE14 / better than MIUI 14.

Antutu v10 : 787956, battery lost 7% during the test.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] etajv100:
the recovery image is for mars, when i boot recovery to install the rom it says devices - mars, when i try to install the venus rom it says file is for venus but device is mars or something like that...
[Xiaomi Mi 11] vazarg:
Hello, i have the same problem when i install pe 14, i have install the twrp from Xiaomi.eu venus Android 14 and no problem.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Xtergo:
Hello,

With the death of PixelExperience, the fate where many roms have ended up in I suggest with Android 14 onwards we move to PixelOS.

Flowersea has done an amazing job with the device maintenance on the last PixelExperience A14 build but there's a few bugs to address before it gets out of beta.

PixelOS is kinda the spiritual successor to the project and many of us would be moving there.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] etajv100:
what happened to pixel experience?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Xtergo:
Pixel experience project is EOL, read about it on their website
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Xtergo:
Here is the fix:

If you're getting the error message when flashing "expected device mars"

There is a very common bug when flashing using Flowerseas Recoveries, I tried to talk to him about the problem but I haven't gotten a response yet. Warning! Please be a 100% sure that your device is a mars or venus before flashing. If you flash...

xdaforums.com
[Xiaomi Mi 11] LIGHT_SEE:
Thanks for your help.

I already root my furniture.

The method like this, maybe it's not the right method. but it works.

1. Finish installing this ROM.

2. Shut down the phone. then go to recovery.

3. input adb enable.

4. open cmd and input dd if=/dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/boot_a of=/storage/boot.img.

5. adb pull /storage/boot.img boot.img.(This method will let the boot.img download to your computer)

6. reboot the phone, and copy this file to the phone.

7. open magisk app, and choose patch file.

8. copy the patched file to the computer,let phone go to fastboot mode.

9. input fastboot flash boot_a 'patched file name'

10.input fastboot flash boot_b 'patched file name'

11. fastboot reboot

Then we can get the root.

I think maybe there is another method that can be easy to use.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] LIGHT_SEE:
Thank you very much!

This is an easy method!

I just used a little foolish way to get the boot.img .lol

Thank you!
[Xiaomi Mi 11] webdiddy:
Wow, this ROM is great, really smooth.

However, I am unable to get ANX camera working.

When launching the camera I will see the app GUI but the viewfinder is just black, I can change camera modes from the lower menu, the upper menu is however unresponsive.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
I never said ANX would work. I might include an MIUI camera port just for venus in the future, but no promise for now.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Sage:
Mgc Gcam Version MGC_8.4.600_A10_V8_MGC pretty damn good.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] webdiddy:
I want to give props to another major feature of this ROM.

Album covers finally works again on my Mercedes Mbux system. Ever since I left my Samsung phone and bought myself a Xiaomi my car have been unable to display album covers streaming trough blutooth, never worked on miui 12 or 13. I have tried 3 other roms before this one and the album cover feature was still broken. To my surprise and pleasure THIS ROM finally fixed this! Mad props. All that's missing now is a custom edge lighting feature for the AOD, I would love to see that. :)
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
This is "Pixel" experience. It's unlikely we will add edge lighting.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] mcchecker:
Hey M8!

Thanks for the ROM!

It's my new daily driver!

I've found another bug:

My digital wellbeing app isn't recording my activities.

Cheers,

Chris
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pho3nX:
You're lucky lol, it's the first thing i freeze on a Android ROM
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Works fine here.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] mcchecker:
Hey!

My phone won't enter deep sleep mode.

Any ideas what to do?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
View attachment 5616713
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
So....AOSP based..or, as the official changeling says...MIUI 13 based? Which is it?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
I'm fairly sure that the AOSP tag is not correct. This rom is based on 13.0.6 MIUI....and not AOSP.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
The ROM itself is built from source on that AOSP tag. It's based on MIUI 13.0.6 because we extract proprietary binary blobs from MIUI.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
Cool. Ok. I obviously don't fully understand what AOSP is. I will be installing the rom soon. Thanks.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Sage:
Use Root to determine what is keeping your phone awake, app or partial wakelock. Battery Guru app can tell you if you have root
[Xiaomi Mi 11] lil_kujo:
Does PE have idle manager? Try toggling that of you have the option under battery settings
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
So....I followed the instructions to the letter.....all went well until the ADB side load command. The PC said it was sending, then failed. The phone said errored out, error 1. I tried three times....with fresh downloads. Meh....so I waited three weeks...and now I am back on MiUIMiX.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Your platform-tools is probably too old. Try downloading the latest version from Google.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
My platform tools are the very latest.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Then did you configure your PATH to point to the latest platform-tools? Alternatively, you can use the full path to the latest adb to avoid invoking adb from PATH.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
I thought I did...but maybe I didn't. The error was -1 if that helps. Everything else worked until the ADB sideload command.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
Error applying update: 7 (Errorcode: :kInstallDeviceOpenError)

.Error in /sideload/package.zip (status 1)

After making sure the platform tools are updated, that the PATH variable was set.

I flash the vendorboot...and recovery fine. I get this error in recovey when I try to sideload.....

:(
[Xiaomi Mi 11] mcchecker:
Hey! I gave battery guru the rights its needed. What does this tell me 😂😅
[Xiaomi Mi 11] onslaught86:
If anyone else is looking for a GCam that works well on Pixel Experience with ultrawide support and no freezing, Wichaya 8.1 is the way to go.

Tried more or less every recent 8.x release (Shamim, BSG, etc.) and Wichaya is the only one that works reliably.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Quietsch:
this here is workin fine with 27 MP without config for me

BSG: MGC_8.4.600_A10_V8

Download MGC_8.4.600_A10_V8 by BSG.

www.celsoazevedo.com
[Xiaomi Mi 11] onslaught86:
On my device, BSG 8.4 works well for the main cam, but no ultrawide/macro and videos freeze or crash with data loss. I have kept both installed.

Most other branches freeze entirely after a few seconds.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
2022/05/21

https://jjpprrrr.com/pe/20220521-0137
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Please use BSG 8.1 which has proper support for the ultrawide and macro lenses.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] onslaught86:
BSG 8.1 restarts when switching lenses, I did not find it satisfactory for daily use. Wichaya8 has all lenses available without restarting. I post this only to help anyone else dissatisfied with BSG, to save the week of trial and error.

With no disrespect to the community or individual efforts to bring Google's computational photography to other handsets, I generally find GCam ports to be a poor and convoluted user experience; a time-sink for flagship handsets, more beneficial in the midrange.

Thankfully, every other aspect of the Mi 11 is tremendously improved with Pixel Experience. This has been the best aftermarket ROM I have used on any device in at least several years. Many thanks for your wonderful work, especially at a time when Xiaomi has not updated the Mi 11's global track in 4+ months.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] mouradsme:
Does this work on RMX3171 (aka, Realme Narzo 30A) based on MT6768?

I already installed Pixel Experience (Android 12) and so far it's been good
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Sage:
Was that after a full day of use? If so the wakelocks look good! It doesn't look like anything much is keeping the phone awake. From a Partial Perspective which is all you can control.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Abgesandter:
Hey guys. I just flashed this rom and its perfect. But i have no audio output on my speakers. Is there a workaorund? Ive reflashed the rom multiple times but the problem still exists :/
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Did you flash the old version from two weeks ago?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Abgesandter:
Yes i flashed the odl version and since then i tried to get the audio working but no luck so far. Now just flashing the new build from today :) Hope this build will fix it :(
[Xiaomi Mi 11] webdiddy:
Got the OTA update today. So awesome. Is it possible to replace the LTE+ logo in the statusbar for a 4g logo?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Build from source and do something like this for your carrier.

sm8350-common: Use 4G icon for China carrier · PixelExperience-Devices/device_xiaomi_sm8350-common@fd3fb48

* In China we perfer to use 4G icon Signed-off-by: baolong24 <1667375308@qq.com>

github.com
[Xiaomi Mi 11] fir1996:
Thank you for the stable rom.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Sage:
Awesome changelog! Your awesome
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pikaone41:
Just try it for 1 hour. This rom is f...ing awsome ! Everything works great ! I have one question, is super charge 55w is supported ?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] kmzway000:
yes . it support 55w charge .
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
That is not correct. My build has MIUI China Stable 13.0.6.0 firmware included. Following my instructions should be enough. Personally I've also successfully flashed directly upon MIUI 12.5.

If there is really any edge cases on the bootloader side, that is beyond my control. It's not unheard of for Xiaome to **** up bootloader slot switch.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
What do you think I should do to make it work? I really want to try it out, but nothing works.l for me. :(
[Xiaomi Mi 11] banananananana:
Mate,

Use .\adb sideload xxx.zip

Or ./adb .... Either 1 of the 2..

That did the trick for me. Use pe recovery or arrow recovery
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
Thank you. I may try that soon. I was a bit disheartened when it failed 3 times in a row. I followed the instructions to the letter. It worked up to the sideload part. I was able to open PE recovery and factory reset....but it just wouldn't sideload.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pikaone41:
i think your adb need more memory. Use this : https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/laa_2_0_4-zip.34392/ find adb and tick the case. i've got an issue with adb sideload and windows 11. it's work for me after give large adress memory to adb.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
I'm on Windows 10...on a 16GB laptop. Thanks for your help.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pikaone41:
no you don't understand . adb needs more memory than windows allows. this software allows adb to have more memory to work no matter if you have 16 or 32gb
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
Ah ..I see. I will give it a go. Thanks again.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] DoggDrigo:
Thanks, this file save my life!!!
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Berard_Gutler:
Hello, bought myself a week ago a MI 11 for about 370 euro, seemed cheap but the experience with global miui is horrible so far, previous phone is a Mi8 that has at least the same or even better autonomy after 3.5 years than this one (with xiaomi.eu) so i was thinking before sending the device back to the shop to ask you guys how is the experience with this ROM as battery time/ SOT, is it snappy or not, everything works fine? Thank you!
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pikaone41:
Sincerely,

Sincerely, I had this rom since 2 days and the battery life is so much better than miui 13.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] crusaderrs:
It’s a lot better for me than miui, faster and smoother. I use Evolution X, try it. You will not go wrong with whatever you choose between pixel experience and evolution x. (y)

​
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Berard_Gutler:
Thanks guys, how many hours of SOT you get ? Also battery time since 100% charged?

I get like 15-17 hours on WIFI with ~6 hours of SOT with FHD+ / 120 hz or 5 - 5.5 h SOT on 4G, phone is debloated but it didn't do much. in 23-24 hours charge time i get like 5 hours max. Does pixel experience get to lets say 7 hours of SOT in 24 hours charge at least ?

LE: Now i was checking i have 7 hours 20 minute since charge, 1,5 hours of SOT and already at 70% battery on 4G no BT or anything and just whatsapp, fb, browsing, youtube and usual stuff ( no games)
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pikaone41:
It will be nice to have " now playing " in the next update.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Our adsp does not have the necessary model to support it.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Sage:
Do it you won't look back. Only negative is a bit worse camera though that's the same with any non miui
[Xiaomi Mi 11] slimsha:
did anyone root the phone and successfully pass safetynet?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] crusaderrs:
Can anyone tell me how to erase this stupid arrow on gboard? :mad::mad::mad:

I use PE+

View attachment 5622543
[Xiaomi Mi 11] banananananana:
You mean stock cam i hope? Lol
[Xiaomi Mi 11] paajonk:
it's normal feature Arrow key, to hide keyboard. It has been added due to gesture navigation. I was surprised that MIUI doean't have this. It's because u can't go back on keyboard area when keyboard is enabled
[Xiaomi Mi 11] crusaderrs:
Okay, but for example Evolution X has the ability to remove it with the option, so I ask if there is it here.

Thanks anyway :cool:
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Berard_Gutler:
Can anyone post some SOT numbers please with pixel experience rom on mi11?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] muellerdeluxe:
Hi, I use this ROM for almost 4 days and I´m really impressed about it !

It´s very smooth and I really love the Pixel Experience. And also the battery life is the best I have ever seen on the Mi 11: with the first full loaded battery I was able to reach 42 hours from 100% to 3% battery with 6 hours and 50 Minutes SOT.

The second complete run is now at 47% battery left with 24 hours usage and 3 hours and 42 minutes SOT.

With xiaomi.eu (stable) I was able to get 36 hours usage with 5 or 5,5 hours max. SOT. So this is really a huge advantage !

Only downside is the camera. The stock camera is like a bad joke and it is difficult to find a good working gcam.

The only with all lenses working is GCam_8.1.101_Wichaya_V1.5 but it has not the best quality with low light.

MGC 8.4.600 A10 V8 is also good but has no 0.6x lens .
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Berard_Gutler:
Thanks for the detailed feedback, thats some impressive numbers you have there. Are they with WQHD + 120 hz ?

As for Gcam try 8.1.101.345619084 by BSG, it is the one i have installed now, works with 0.6 also.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Guiry:
I was waiting a few days to give my feedback. I can only say that I didn't imagine there was an excellent ROM for the mi11. Everything works really good, the only thing I miss is the Xiaomi cam. Ohhhhh battery life is wonderful 👍👍👍👍... I charged my phone until 100% yesterday at 04:00am and it still has 26% and about 6hrs sot.

Good job guys!
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Zimty86:
At 8.1.101.345619084 from BSG does not work 2x for me, when I take that everything is blurred
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Berard_Gutler:
Yes, 2x doesn't work but you get 1x + 0.6x, for me its enough and anyway much better than stock camera.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] stefancrisxd98:
Hi everybody! Lots of thanks for the developer on this rom, it is amazing, truly! However I ran into some problems which I don't know if you're aware of, but I hope will be fixed in the near future. I have some stuttering on the homescreen with the launcher as all my icons seem to disappear, leaving only the blank wallpaper, especially while PiP youtube. Maybe the pip is the cause, i didnt test it yet. Coming from miui 13 on venus where i used to get 4-4.5h sot, this is not that much better, i barely hit 5hrs on PE Plus, sadly. I don't know why. I have adaptive battery deactivated, i dont keep location on or nfc, only when I need them to, no aod, brightness 50-70, etc. I have a brand new battery swapped by me 3 weeks ago hoping sot will improve on miui13 but it didn't, and it performs the same on pe plus. Wireless charging "works" but doesn't. Im using a xiaomi 10w charger and it just doesn't let the phone die, but doesn't charge it. And I dont have any option to change the screen resolution from wqhd to fullhd+ , if you have it, let me know.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Please organize your questions into separate paragraphs next time. A big chunk of texts is hard to reply to.

I've never had that happen to me. YouTube PiP is also fine.

Why?

Wireless charging is fine here even on the 50W Xiaomi wireless charger.

We don't offer that option because it makes no sense. You phone is still driving all the pixels on the panel even in 1080p mode. It doesn't really save any battery.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
We regards to this last option....it absolutely does make a difference. The screen is indeed still powering the same amount of pixels, so the screen is still using the same power, but the CPU and GPU are workiing way harder.

FHD+ is 2,592,000 pixels.

WQHD is 4,608,000 pixels..

About 90% greater GPU usage.

It makes about 8% difference over a day.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Not that much from my testing. The system UI rendering is a really light load. The different in load is so small that it doesn't even make a difference in the frequency governing behavior (of both CPU and GPU). Granted that 1080p may still toggle less transistors at the lowest level, which means slightly less power consumption, but it's really not worth it.

Another issue would be different versions of assets in the UI. AOSP does not have a native toggle to switch the system UI resolution at run time. MIUI made some hacks to get it to work, but they had to supply two versions of many assets/overlays in both 2k and 1080p resolution. You can also see visual glitches on MIUI in scenarios like screen rotation animations where the rounded corner mask kinda just goes out of sync with the rest of the screen.

Anyway, if you know a good way of implementing it in AOSP, feel free to submit a PR, and I will be more than happy to review and merge it.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] pjaysnowden:
No way...I couldn't do what you do. And I appreciate the work you do. I really do. I just thought that it would take twice the CPU. I stand corrected.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] stefancrisxd98:
What's your Sot? Mixed network, not only wifi. I don't know, I only use whatsapp, chrome, browsing, banking apps, Instagram.. I don't do games anymore
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Dude you are asking the wrong person. I flash test builds multiple times a day. Sometimes I break things and then have to format data. Do you really think I can use this phone like a normal person?

Being the maintainer usually means I can't enjoy the build I make, unless I buy another venus.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] stefancrisxd98:
Oh.. you're right. I'm sorry.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Ralph Chen:
5~6 hours

It's pretty good compared with MIUI
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Ralph Chen:
May I ask, what's adap?

And I once made it work , but laggy
[Xiaomi Mi 11] grushnickij:
2x works, the thing is it's not 2x, but the macro camera, therefore everything in a distance is blurry.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
audio dsp, or whatever "a" stands for. Qcom just calls it adsp
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Pikaone41:
Thank you jjpprrrr for your hard work and maintaining this rom, can't wait to try your next build. Can you make a rom with magisk already installed ?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
No.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Ralph Chen:
The option to change resolution is present on A13, so just wait 😉
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Ralph Chen:
Just install manually 🤷

It takes less than 3 mins
[Xiaomi Mi 11] nimishkr:
Android Auto connecting issues

Apart from the issue that I am mentioning here, this ROM has been really smooth and fluid. Its quite refreshing to come from MIUI to this.

I am experiencing an issue with Android Auto where, when I connect it to my Peugeot car, Android Auto on my phone keeps flashing on my Mi 11 repeatedly (once every half second) but doesnt load up in my car's screen.

Some random times it does load up on my car screen, but then it seems to disconnect itself at random times.

I have uninstalled Android Auto and reinstalled it. I have cleared its storage. I have removed the phone from connected devices in my car.

Any other ideas on where this issue is coming from? I can also say, I have had the same issue with the latest xiaomi.eu ROM that I had installed on my Xiaomi Mi 11
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
It's probably an issue from your car? I tested AA on Google's official desktop-head-unit emulator, and it works fine.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] megalomanicbastard:
Thanks for the great rom. Other than resolution, is it possible to drop the hz down to 30hz on AoD?
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Our screen panel does not support 30Hz.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] megalomanicbastard:
Oh, currently on EU. AoD shown as 30hz. I thought mi11 support it natively.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
If that's the case, then Xiaomi needs to open source their kernel on android 12. Currently I don't see the 30Hz timing in the panel dts.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] megalomanicbastard:
Hopefully they will. Thank youu
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Actually after some testing, the AOD in doze mode indeed works in 30Hz on PE. I manually triggered doze and did the UFO refresh rate test, and the screen is clearly refreshing in 30Hz. The refresh rate overlay may show 60, but I believe that number is simply taken from the dts I mentioned before, so it's not absolutely accurate.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] Nojus33:
I experience same issues even on MIUI. Phone keeps asking usb connection mode (or something like that). If I select Android auto, it does not work, if I ignore it, it stays connected. In addition, changing music volume from a car always pauses the music. On my old OnePlus 6 there were no such issues.

BTW. For whatever reason original cable can't even establish a connection, but with a short cheap cable it connects
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Well if it's happening on stock, I can't do anything about it. I don't know why it happens, but I can make a guess. It probably has something to do with Xiaomi's proprietary fast charging protocol which broke some regular USB functionalities. That's probably why a cheap USB cable (without Xiaomi's extra pin(s)) worked.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] dpsama:
Installed the rom this morning and it's by far the best one for mi11!!

I was wondering if there was a way that allows me to disable the noise cancellation mic or lower it's sensitivity since i am having an issue with people on the other side hearing themselves while talking.

Thanks in advance for tour help.
[Xiaomi Mi 11] jjpprrrr:
Uh why do people on the other side need to hear themselves?