yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
GPS signal strength is affected by the radio used by the device. Perhaps they use a different radio version? Same thing can be said about 3G signal. It is also affected by the radio. We know because we have tried many different ROM on other device and know for a fact that different radio gives slightly different results.
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
the fact we don't get it - doesn't mean it is not true! If you disagree with the result because you have a gps lag IN YOUR TOUCH HD - please report it in details with some experimental evidence.

...maybe the diamond gps antenna has a low S/N, and it has to be filtered by averaging multiple fixes?
[Touch HD General] The_Stranger:
Since GPS lag seems not to exist on our touch HD, can somewone then please tell me if the following behaviour is normal (for google maps)

When I drive at a speed of 50 km/h (approx 30mph), google maps shows the dot consistently 10 to 15 meters behind my current position. As soon as I stop (for a trafficlight), the dot catches up and displays my location rather precisely (there is always some error ofcourse).

So during driving, it is quite precise, except for the fact that it is allways 10-15 meters behind me...

Is that normal or is that the fabled lag?

(haven't tested tomtom yet, will use that for navigation anyway, so I am not to bothered by the behaviour of google maps)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I think the software itself is the problem, not the device. I have used Google Map for driving only three times. The second time I used it, the dot did not move at all! It stays at the point of departure throughout the trip! This was on my Athena. When I used a proper GPS software including iGO and TomTom, I had no problem at all. Even when I'm travelling inside a undersea tunnel, the current position moves alone. Obviously this is done by the software extrapolating the most likely position based on the last known speed.
[Touch HD General] onesolo:
And we cannot forget that the windshield of the car maybe can be a factor for the lag
[Touch HD General] luckyuser:
Sorry, my English is not so good as yours. But does it mean now you can by the Software TTN7 and the maps too on the website from TomTom?:confused:
[Touch HD General] ardsar:
You can not purchase the tomtom application, but you can purchase the maps if you have the program installed and working correctly with tomtom home. Currently only tomtom home version 1.5 allows you to sync your device as the TTN7 application has NOT been officially released by tomtom for the HD to my knowledge.
[Touch HD General] kao123:
I am seeing the same thing on my HD, I could not get a fix in my house on my TYTNII or on my Omnia, but I can with my HD, and as I posted before I have yet to see the "lag" that has been talked about :-)
[Touch HD General] nikki-m:
My device works fine with Copilot 7, with no lag.

Lag however IS evident on Google Maps. I think is is simply Google Maps that causes the lap by slower page updating. Considering that this is an "online" programme, I think that it is reasonable to assume that such a programme will not be as instantaneous as a dedicated programme.

That's why you pay good money for a faster programme!
[Touch HD General] nin2thevoid:
First of all...

I completely agree with the ZERO LAG thing and also while the parts of the HD are almost identical HTC has done a lot of optimization, mostly the way the software communicates with the hardware, which is where the GPS lag was resulting from in the first place.

Good to see how fast HTC picks up some things (while other things take years but that is beside the point) as the Diamond is only a couple of months old and they already fixed so many issues and improved so much..

Second thing though, I have not been able to get a lock indoors, but at home and at work I got a couple of stories above me so that probably causes too much signal interference.

3G reception is always perfect though no matter where I am...
[Touch HD General] leek:
Same here with CoPilot Live 6 (with TTS!).

No lag, and good reception, even indoors away from a window!!!
[Touch HD General] SingaporeAirlines:
Quick question:

For Tom Tom to work on the Touch HD you have to buy separate software? Or does buying a physical Tom Tom device mean you have the privilege of having it on an alternative device (the Touch HD)?
[Touch HD General] Philosoma:
The HD is my first HTC phone so can't comment on previous lag issues, however side by side to my PDA running TomTom 7.4, my HD running 7.9 is about 100 to 150 meters behind. I know they are different versions, will go back to 7.4 to test further, but that is quite a lag.

On a seperate note, how do you get an external bluetooth GPS to work with the HD? The HD seems to have less bluetooth settings than my WM5 PDA.
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
Hi Stranger, at 50 km/hour you do about 15 m/s. every GPS of the class we use, e.g. not for professional use, has one position fix every second - which corresponds to about 15 meters. All navigation softwares do quite a lot of interpolation and data filtering, as we all know when we enter into a gallery and the position keeps moving or when we are slightly sideways on the road but the actual position is nicely on the road! So, it is not a surprise that your software could be within a second from the last measurement, since it has a full second before having the next one anyway and a full bunch of operations to make (screen redraw, route calculations, etc.etc.)

BTW, Igo does exactly the same.
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
Hi...which car do you have? if you are by feet and get 100 meters lag, it means that the two phones have a timeshift of more than a minute :eek:. If you are Schumacher and drive at 300 km/h, then it is a second delay. :o

....are you sure it is so long? I also have tested both 7.4 and 7.9 and i didn't notice such a big difference. Maybe you forgot wifi on or similar, and your phone was generating noise and 100% CPU activities.

I fly airplanes equipped with 2 GPSs with WAAS (wide augmentation system) to be more precise in position, and even there the delay varies between 0.1 and 1s when redrawing the G1000 screens from the actual position on the taxiways, and sometimes it also happens that the two independent system provide conflicting results (in that case pointed out by RAIM integrity checks) simply in relation with antenna orientation, noise, etc. AND THEY ARE IDENTICAL SYMMETRIC SYSTEMS. I mention this to explain that making comparisons can be difficult....:confused:
[Touch HD General] onesolo:
I only tested a few minutes with iGo 8 latest version, and there's a minor lag.

The only time that the lag is not notice is when I went slower.

I still have to test it more and with Tomtom also.
[Touch HD General] The_Stranger:
Back again, tested it a bit more with tomtom...

And yes, I do have a lag. At almost every speed, there is a lag of about 2 secs. When I drive on a straight road, which crosses another road, my tomtom arrow is almost 2 secs behind my real car. If I stop in the middel of that crossing, the arrow does catch up and shows my position quite accurate (allthough it is hard to tell precisely, since tomtom does not show a lot of features besides the two roads).

So i do definitely have lag, and it is the same in both google maps and in tomtom.

It is useable though and there is always the question, was it better with my previous phone, which I have to test still..
[Touch HD General] truthseekers:
tt6 works fine on mine

tt6 works well on mine but with one bug... in portrait screen mode (upright - the usual you get) it has teeny fonts you cant read or keyboard is way to small to type on... but i found a sort of fix which makes it then very usable...

GSEN allows the gsensor to rotate your screen for you automatically and then tomtom6 works fine, keyboard full size and is very high rez screen with lots more map viewable at once. I like it... even though you may want to rotate the screen back so phone is upright when youve inut your address, this is a small price to pay for having tt6 working I think...

Hope this helps someone.
[Touch HD General] ChiefmasterB:
Hm... with my Blackstone it´s the same with my diamond... sometimes lag.. sometimes no lag... but I can´t see any big improvement....

but:

It seems that IGo is running bit smoother than on diamond... why? it´s the same CPU etc...
[Touch HD General] onesolo:
Tested on Tomtom and it lags. Compared to Touch Pro a little less, but it lags...
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
GPS on the Kaiser even lags a little....there is no GPS that does not lag to some degree. Even 500 dollar Garmin dash mounted GPS units lag 1-2 seconds depending on speed.
[Touch HD General] BetterRed:
Is 'lag' the best description?

This is just a hunch, but i don't think the problem is lag, rather inaccuracy.

TomTom will keep the arrow in the direction of the road, so you're only going to notice inaccuracies along that dimension.

It could well have something to do with the time that has elapsed since QuickGPS' last download. The system uses that data to set initial satellite positions - and it gets a much quicker initial fix than eg. my previous SirfIII external which had to wait until it had 'downloaded' the ephemeris data from the satellites, and was therefore more accurate once the fix was found.
[Touch HD General] Takkie1970:
I do not know if this is a final word on GPS lag on Touch HD, with some help I got tomtom working on my HD:) Yesterday I tested it with 815.2024 map of western europe. All original POI's present, only a couple selected.

Testdrove with another pda ipaq 2210 (yup the old one) At that time there was just a little lag, workable though, new versions of tomtom seem to give directions by voice on a more regular basis (compared to my 6.030 version of tomtom and 6.75map of western europe)

So I thought hmmm , looking good. In the evening I uploaded some speedcamera's by hand (not original tomtom ones)

This morning I tested while driving to work and there is definately a lag of approx. 2 seconds not even on the motorway that is.

I do not know if I can call this lag, according to me this is just slowness of the program itsself.

Any others with the same problem?

Best wishes,

Jan-Paul
[Touch HD General] lipa47:
Yep confirmed :(
[Touch HD General] _macca:
after reading this thread i went out and tested my gps,

TYTN II & Touch Hd on tt 6 & audi satnav

I really did not see much if any differene, i drove 50 miles through country roads and small towns and nothing.
[Touch HD General] custardo01:
I get noticeable lag in landscape mode but minimal in portrait. I think it has something to do with Gyrator 2 or the Tilt sensor. Maybe TT is just is not compatible for Blackstone - yet.
[Touch HD General] crystal_clear:
gps lag confirmed - using IGO 8

i can confirm both tomtom 7 and igo8 both suffer with a lagging issue
[Touch HD General] stesa:
I can confirm you are using wrong version or setting in both TT and Igo ;)
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
crystal clear....data! I disagree with your statement, it is probably induced by other software or incorrect settings...for example, how many POIs are you displaying?
[Touch HD General] Matterhorn:
Rightoh pzucchel...Hello btw.

To minimize GPS lag may I suggest:

* Run the HTC HD HotFix

* Disable Activesync from always running

* Use HD Tweak to fine tune your system

* Run the SD card DMA tweak

* Try using a manual app for landscape switching

* Don't have unnecessary apps running in the background

* Minimize the use of POIs

* If it is still too slow, check if 2D is faster for you

The voice commands seem to be spot on anyway...

My Nav system is working great, luv that SCREEN!
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
Ciao Matterhorn, fully agree with you. In fact, i wrapped the navigon MN7 with a mortscript layer that does many of the things you mention, for example stopping TF3D and activesync automatically.... typically, there is no sense in having multitasking feature while driving...

and it is not a problem for the touch, it is a problem for the driver!
[Touch HD General] mwatson:
I was in a mates car the otherday, he was using a stand alone tomtom one. Even that had noticable lag.

I started to wonder if thats just the way it is with consumer GPS units. Unless you spend thousands on a professional dedicated unit which the millitary use you'll see lag.

So there ya go, even TT One has lag!
[Touch HD General] crystal_clear:
installed hotfix

using the absolute basics in the IGO8 or TT7, will test and advise during the day, but always seems to be dragging about an 1/8 mile behind. Program itself runs 100% fine, just the position is delayed.

Have the correct versions of both programs - just for the record.
[Touch HD General] SingaporeAirlines:
I noticed last night that at 70mph down a motorway, it lags bout 3 - 5 seconds. At 30 mph the lag is 1 - 3 seconds.

This was done using QuickGPS to find satlliltes, and Google Maps (clicked Use GPS).
[Touch HD General] Matterhorn:
I have my poor little HD multitasking like crazy when I drive my car :eek:

It is clipped to my dashboard running Nav, Bluetooth to my JawBone BT, playing ogg music files with the new and improved MortPlayer, MS VoiceCommand waiting and ready and sometimes Noni GPS as well. They all work together quite well.

I clip in my HD to the dash and plug the audio cable into the hifi system. While I'm pulling away in my car I say to my JawboneBT "start TomTom Navigator"...it starts. I say "start Mortplayer" it starts. A phone call comes in, the music volume mutes automatically, I push the answer button on my Jawbone to answer the call, when the call is done the music comes back on. If I want to make a call, I say for example "call joe Smith" Voice Command replies " call Joe Smith at home, work or mobile, I say mobile, it dials the number and connects, when the call is finished the music comes back on. Keep in mind that I haven't touched my phone since I first sat in the car :p I still can't believe that the whole thing works without crashing! I'm a happy camper.
[Touch HD General] utvol06:
google maps has software issues with the Touch HD, Raphael, and Diamond GPS that create more lag. Bad program to test.
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
interesting use - do you use voice command 1.6? In fact, have a look anyway to mortscripts. You could create a script doing all the "car" configuration for you, e.g. removing the unneeded programs and launching all the machineries you need. And maybe attach it to a button...so that you don't have to spend 5 minutes talking alone everytime you jump on your car ;)
[Touch HD General] Matterhorn:
It was wet at the Escalade! (inside joke)

Yeah its MS Voice 1.6. You're right I should take the time to learn Mortscript. I normally just load everything by hand before I put the phone in the cradle. Sometimes when I have friends in the car I launch everything with the BT just to freak them out :D Anyway, getting off topic....

GPS lag, yes it happens sometimes but for me it isn't much of an issue as long as I don't miss the turn off!
[Touch HD General] samitro:
I have the lag, a minimum of 2 seconds at around 100 km/s speed. It happens with the TOMTOM default settings, BT GPS and other NMEA GPS at different rates, it is there no matter what the settings are and even after a reboot without a single program running in the background. I have the same issue with iGO too

What I really hate is how the arrow / car icon jumps on the screens every one second.

Now for those claiming that this is completely normal, it is not true. I have been using GPS for years without a similar issues, this doesn't happen with Nokia phones with must worst GPS chip and doesn't happen with the BT GPS module with a low end Nokia for 100 euros. I love the phone but really very disappointed with the GPS performance
[Touch HD General] zuadao:
my tomtom on hd has less lag than my n73 with tomtom so i cant complaint.

have you guys installed the ati driver from the diamond and the sd tuneup??
[Touch HD General] Psygnosis84:
Not minding the lag at all, but hate the response time when pressing a command especially typing in an address. On the real TomTom typing in the address is much faster. When typing out the address, it tries to find alternatives and even find the right address before you type it out, and the HD is heaps slow with this.

Other than that, love the phone.

BTW zuadao i installed the SD Tune Up and don't know if it made that much of a difference.
[Touch HD General] pzucchel:
try another application. I strongly believe it is not the touch HD you are suffering from, but TT on the touch HD!
[Touch HD General] Psygnosis84:
would running class 6 memory cards in the touch hd improve response time in TomTom or any other program running via the SD, or is the speed improvement only via actually transferring to the computer and back?
[Touch HD General] danum:
That is normal for TomTom due to the fact it has a screen refresh rate of once per second. You can help the actual redraw by being selective which POIs are displayed. Keep these to a minimum. Eye candy is fine but it is not necessary to display every category and has limited practical use to do so. The overhead by displaying too many may also cause problems when using .ogg voice alerts for safety cameras for example.

Over three years I have used four versions of TomTom Navigator on three different HTC devices and the HD behaves no different to any I have experienced before once running.

Getting the initial GPS fix takes a little longer than my Artemis or standalone SirfIII indoors, but in the car where the TTN7.910 / HD combination is intended for use, it is no worse or better.

By default getting a fix is a three way deal between the GPS receiver, AGPS (my first device using this) and QuickGPS. Testing has proven AGPS is more of a spanner in the works than a help particularly where a cell signal is poor. For this reason I have disabled AGPS.

Valid QuickGPS data alone assists getting the fix on the HD just as effectively as it has done on my Artemis for the last two years.

So overall in my opinion TTN7.910 on my HD behaves no different than any other combination I have used. I cannot speak for iGo8 as I did not use this extensively, Google maps is a different issue.
[Touch HD General] drbf:
With TT I have noticed a very large lag but using Igo8 v8.3.2.6 and the GJ 5.9 skin, Data.Zip v9, TTS etc on the THD there is now no lag in 3D or 2D.
[Touch HD General] onesolo:
There's a minor lag, but much lesser than on TT
[Touch HD General] Psygnosis84:
I just wish TomTom was faster when you typed in an address. By the time i have gone for the 4 letter, it has missed the 3rd letter.
[Touch HD General] acousticnorbert:
GPS lag resolved an my HD

Hi all together,

I've read carefully all you've written and some of you are right and some of you not . I guess.

I've seen the GPS lag like all the other ones of you not riding supersonic - please be carefull with strong words ;)

The problem is not the hardware. All the technical consideration are right, but not the ones about the performance to calculate the nearest point on the road matching the GPS position. Thats a quite simple algebraic calculation.

The HD has a buffer, where the hardware writes its values and where the software reads it from. The communication is done via COM-port (emulation maybe). That's the reason for the "lag":

The buffer is by default 4kB (4096) in and out - both. That's "fat" for a geo point in degrees and min/sec/sub. Thats why the navi-prog comes a little late to the right point: the driver-buffer tells all the obsolete values until the buffer is empty.

Fix it by modify the registry (TotalCommander or RegEditCE)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\InputBufferSize = 512

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\OutputBufferSize = 512

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\RetryWaitonError = 1

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\SleepOnNoData = 250

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOneDevice\PollInterval = 500 (or 1000)

To speed to COM4 (internal port) I've set to 57600 (it is a CAN not a MUST, increases just the speed of data transfer between driver/buffer and navi-software)

Then soft reset the device.

With these settings in the registry I've got the same good tracking performance like using TomTom6 on my old Artemis - maybe a little bit better.

BTW: remeber the old values, if you'd like restore them on collateral demages ;)
[Touch HD General] johnpatcher:
Nice work, will try it out!

But I have a question: What exactly is the meaning of "output" and "input". Isn't there just one way? I know SiRF-III chipsets which can be controlled with some commandos in certain ways, but I can't imagine that this is the case here, isn't it?
[Touch HD General] gav28:
Can you tell me how I modify the baud of the internal COM4 port? Is this a registry tweak?

<update> not to worry, I've sorted it.

Thanks
[Touch HD General] acousticnorbert:
It is just a setup, using iGO8 you can go to settings->GPS and set the value manually and iGO tries to (re-)connect immediatly. Every baud rate worked. A little bit strange but it is as it is.

BTW: Input-/OutputBufferSize = 256 works too, maybe just ab bit closer to the position, but can be "just in sense"

good luck ;)
[Touch HD General] acousticnorbert:
Well, we have to ask HTC or MS ;)

Maybe an application can send commands to the driver (just like reset or somewhat else) and these commands will be queued - I don't know. And 'cause the modification of both values workes - I'm happy and use it.

BTW: the naming of identifiers by developers depend on the view. HW->Drv->SW vice versa.

Good luck
[Touch HD General] johnpatcher:
I have tried your settings out, and have to say that they don't change anything for me.

The "gps lag" doesn't affect me at all, but there are situations where iGO8 is 20-50 meters behind my actual position.

I guess that this isn't just the gps itself, but maybe the maps are not calibrated correctly, the gps reception is bad, or something like this.

I will try it out with a bluetooth gps receiver later on, so I will see what the matter is.
[Touch HD General] acousticnorbert:
Yes I agree - this situation(s) I've got too. By changing the settings there were less of them. Sometimes GPS "hangs". The lags I had before driving 50km/h and now just above 80-100km. AND: It is a difference which track on the road I use. I've tried it today. Right track (20-30m behind with 15m accuracy), left track: exact position (a curve on a bridge).

Evrybody knows, that the maps are calibrated to 0 m height, and we are not on the sea ;) When you tell the iGO not to keep you on the road or when you start the nav you can see a little point besides/behind/before your arrow on the road: the GPS position.

Shortly: With these settings in my HD-registry the behaviour is the same quite good as teh one on my Artemis with TomTom6. I've restored the settings for a test an hour ago - and my position was 50m behind at 50km/h and came near to the stop at traffic light while I stopped for some seconds (3-5?). Than I set them again to the values I've posted - and it was OK again.

I can live with that, some expansive navigators are not better, the TomTom GO930 device of a friend has the same failed position at the same bridge.

15m is normal, who of us can be absolutely sure, that we are 15 or 20m behind? Not me, when moving the eyes from navi to the street (the white lines, 5m each one) and back to the navi, my car has gone some meters. I like other sports.

AND at last: Nothing is perfect, nobody is perfect and every driver has to use his/her eyes and his/her brain to take the right way...

Have a nice journey, I'm pleased with my HD and the "new" settings.