yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
That's what I found too. iPhone's camera takes far far better picture than HD in low light condition. In bright lights however, I give the point to HD because of its higher MP resolution.

Here is my sample of a photo taken in diffused light in my bathroom: The first is taken with HD. Due to bugs in the camera software, it saves the picture in portray mode although the camera was in landscape mode when I took this picture.

This second picture was taken with my iPhone.

If you think the standard iPhone camera is good for indoor/low light situation, wait till you use products such as clearCAM and Darkroom. These applications uses the its motion sensor to only snap the picture when your hands are steady, so that your picture appear sharper. Lots and lots of camera software available in the Applestore. There's also one fantastic one called PanoLab Pro for panoramic pictures, allowing you to stich together up to 30 photographs both horizonatlly and vertically joined. So versatile and feature rich. Yet another example of functionality exceeding what winmo camara software could offer. In the case of HD, we can't even find any third party camera software AFAIK, other than those which were extracted from the newer ROM by our ROM cooks. More and more developers appears to be working more on iPhone software these days, and fewer and fewer on winmo devices.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
It is a choice we have. Not saying I am using all of them. Sometimes you just want a change from the shell you have been using for sometime.

My Start Menu currently has the recent program list. So this is a non issue for me. Even if it dont, I just use TaskMgr on the taskbar to go to the app (you still remember WM can do multi-tasking? :p ). I have assigned my "VolUp" to toogle between TF3D and Today. So even if the app is not active it is just one press. Why are you asking this trivial scenario? Is it that it is a big hassle for you to do this trivial switching in Iphone? :D

You believe what you want. I am using the stock ROM. It definitely never freeze on its own. The soft-reset is usually for after installing/removing apps or some reg tweak or due to some rouge apps. I need to soft-reset after changing the Today theme when TF3D is concurrently running with my normal Today screen otherwise I can't switch back to TF3D (think it is a bug in the switcher app)

I dont know. You tell me. From the way you describe multi-tasking as only useful just so that you can switch between tasks easily, I would say you sound like one who has not used a smartphone before. It is just not logical for a advance SMARTPHONE user who cannot see the importance of cooperative multi-tasking as cornerstone of a capable OS but instead emphasise superficial eye-candy factors like smooth scrolling as the determining factors. :p

If the above is not you then I can only JOKINGLY SPECULATE that you probably intentionally or unintentionally trying to downplay the role of multi-tasking so that you can root for Iphone and put it on a pedestal and finally declare it the ultimate uber-phone on this planet.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
well, since these things charge the battery in about 3 hours time, you can do what i do,

slip these on when you don't anticipate to use the phone for say half an hour, that should give you 15% of the battery back.

In the evenings when the battery is almost about to be completely deplete, i wouldn't mind using these as an alternative to being disconnected from the world.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
If all that you want is to break from boredom by changing the look of the home page, it could also be very easily achieved with iPhone. Please refer to the links provided by Fallenczar in post 229 for just some examples. I see a lot more customization tools on Cydia, but that would give you a flavour.

Which version of stock ROM are you using? While I might agree with you that stock ROM could be more stable than some cooked ROMs, I would never believe that anyone of them could be completely crash free. Anyway, tell me your version for me to test, rather than take your word for it. I can't take your word for it because I do not believe it.

Also, what are the software that you have on your devices? Hard to belive that you might happened to have chosen all the stable third party software while software junkie like me could have chosen all the buggy software. Having said that, after my flashing of Dutty Xtreme 2.6 yersterday, I had only installed TomTom, Wktask, Resco Picture viewer, Resco Contact Manager, eWallet and AGEPhone, and I already had about 10 soft resets since then. I think these software are all from reputable developers and could hardly be termed rogue software.

I do not downplay it. I simply list out the situation where I miss this feature. But I also do not try to do silly things with it, like having Voice Chat and VOIP conversation simultaneously. Like I say, it makes more sense for me to only start the VOIP client when I need to make the call. Incidentally, I tried having my VOIP phone, MSN on while using my album yesterday on my HD. I had so many forced reset as a result. Altough I cannot rule out the possiblity that the freezing was completely caused by Album. I generally prefer to completely exit a program after using it in winmo to free up memory, etc. I let multiple program to be alive only when I reallly need to. I also try to stop services that I do not need to use. Such services may include say the notification manager. I do the same for my desktop computers, where every program tries to get into the startup folder. I typically try to tweak the registry to take away XP services that I know I'm not going to use. These are all for performance reasons of course.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Yes, that makes sense. In this way, you don't have to carry it around. Thanks for the tips. Where did you buy yours from?
[Touch HD General] bobdude5:
Awww man i was hoping it was just the rom i was using...oh and thanks for the apps ill go check those out.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
HD picture quality is certainly MUCH better than Iphone. You can even see thread of the cloth whereas the Iphone is just blurry one. You can use PS to increase the brightness of HD easily but nothing can be done with the bad quality of the Iphone photo. ;)
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Oops. Didnt read properly. I didnt know this kind of deal exist. Well, you are very lucky then. Do you mind sharing on how to get on this offer?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I got it from www.pennytel.com. Basically they have two different packages. One is without subscription but your call is timed. The other one, which I'm having requires $5 per month subscription, but for that you get something like 60 (or is it 100) calls free of charge. Over that it is 8 cents per call for fixed line. For mobile it is dearer but far cheaper still than normal mobile phone. No flag fee. Per second charging instead of per minutees or 1/2 minutes. Check it out.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Can you demonstrate for us please? Post that photo after you have photoshoped it. If you can do it quickly and easily and show us a good result, it would gain some points for HD. :-)

And how many of us would want the trouble of photoshoping our pictures, assuming they know how to use that software? I don't think there are that many.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
You can customise Iphone with jb. Fine. WM can be also customised. So? I dont know where you want to go with this. :confused:

I am on 1.18.732.2 (23358) WWE.

You should qualify your statement. ;) It can't be completely crash free (nothing is) if you mess around with it like using cooked rom or apply hacks etc or you open 32 processes or you run down the free RAM. Crash should only mean the system hanged/non-responsive and not an app crash (i.e. you can kill the process and everything back to normal). It should also exclude crash caused by incompatible apps (i.e. after removing these incompatible apps the crash does not occurs anymore).

My stable cfg that are active after booting (Running Today and TF3D simultaneously):

Today screen App: spb PhoneSuite, spb Diary, spb weather, windows live, wireless monitor, minutes dashboard, rss hub, pocket player (last 4 plugins are hosted inside a tab in spbdiary)

Other process/drivers: AE Button, TouchResponse, color taskbar icons, pull email, BT on, 3G (2min timeout)

TF3D: non customised. (it self-unload/reload at 12mn - default behaviour)

Idle cpu usage: 98-99%.

Free RAM ranges from (depending what apps are active): 50 Mb to 110Mb

Battery Time per charge (from AE Button): Usage: about 7-8 hrs. Standby: 2day+ (with about 15% charge left)

Other apps: usual buffet like fring, google maps, opera mini, garmin, mapking etc which are activate as and when needed. Open app is always closed when not needed (via "hangup" key assigned to "close application" with AE Button)

Well, let's put it this way. Is it fair to say that multi-tasking is much less important to YOU than smooth scrolling /consistent UI? It seems to me it is so as quite a few occasions you mentioned Iphone is better because it has a smooth and consistent UI. Well, like I said before, you argue your own argument away when you only selectively pick factors that you like. :p

btw: you are the one that invent this scenario of doing voice chat & voip simultaneously which is not possible in reality. ;) Dont pin that on me.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Why are you confused so easily? The winmo camp is the one who keeps harping on the need to have many different UI shells, looks, etc. One for work, one for play, blah blah blah, and that iPhone is completely impossible to customize, etc etc. This assertion came up several times. Go back to re-read this thread.

The links given by Fallenczar has just shown that iPhone could beat you at your own game in this department.:D

No, it is YOU who is qualifying your statement now. This is what you wrote before:

"I never have crashes with my HD. The only time I soft-reset is when after messing with registry" (from post 225)

And I predicted then that you will make this qualification:

"I find it hard to believe you, sorry. I think you will come back to qualify your statement and tell me it is not just when you edit the registry that you need to soft reset"

Another qualification from you? This is what you wrote before:

"My ActiveSync is running all the time. My phone last 2 days with normal use. Running with TF3D+Today and 3G+wifi+BT always on." (from post 226)

I have mentioned the specific situations where I needed multitask. I had always said that I miss it. However, since I'm forced to choose, I made the choice based on what matters to me every seconds and minutes of usage instead of things that I have to do once a day/week only. This is not being selective. It is just communicating the criteria for making hard choices.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately it is only to 4 countries and to fixed line only. Not much of a use. If I use this service using my mobile, I would still burn my mobile bundled usage time and not to mention my callee mobile time. Using VOIP via wifi (or unlimited 3G data), it is absolute free for both parties.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Not only to four countries and not only to fixed lines. Please read again.

Mobile phone callees are not charged in Australia. Only the caller pays. Besides, I have only less than five persons who have VOIP, and none other than myself puts the VOIP on their mobile device. Out of that five person, none gives out their VOIP phone number. Everyone uses it only for calling out. NONE uses it to take calls. So, why would I want to switch my VOIP client on all the time? May be most of your friends have smart phones with VOIP installed, but I do'nt think many people find themselves in your shoes. All of my calls goes to either my landline or my mobile phone numbers. Although I had given out my VOIP number to a friend who is also on Pennytel (calling each other is completely free in this case), he never use it because there's no financial reason to do so - almost nothing could be saved. VOIP to VOIP call quality is usually not as good as having VOIP at only one end, so that's another reason for it.

Australia does not offer unlimited data browsing plan. You guys in Singapore (?) are very lucky to have that. My quota is only 1 GB which is the highest available (if I exceed that, the penalty is $15,000 per GB), which is another reason not to let that thing run all the time.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Eye-candy, yes but doesnt look that functional to me. I just like my Today screen with its plugins. No need for fanciful transition.

OK. I should amend as ....messing with registry or forced reset by installation program. That's still true for me as I have no need to try any of the cooked ROM.

You ask what I have so I list it for you. What's wrong? Activesync slip my mind since this one pops in by itself. So yes ActiveSync is there. I think I missed out on wifi too. It is on. "Normal use" to me is a couple of hours call, PIM etc.

Understand where you are coming from. I went with HD because those things that are important to me are not supported (or not effectively supported) by Iphone.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
May be you have not yet got enough experience with winmo to realise it. If you have been using it for as long as I have, you will find that it is not just messing with registry and installation of programs that require soft resets. Freezes, sluggishness, lockup could be pretty common for winmo devices. We just got used to it and developed a high level of tolerance for it, that's all.

Most people do not stick to cooked ROM because MS and HTC do not support them with new updates. This may be intentional as it forces them to spend more money buying a new phone in order to get updates to their OS. Because of this terrible policy, they have to use cooked ROM. There's simply no choice. Without cooked ROMs, many other devices on XDA-developers forums would still be using WM5 or even older OS. Unfortunately, cooked ROMs could increase the chance of freezing and crash. You would typically find people declaring how bug free and fast the ROM is hours after they flash it. Sometimes, as short as one day later, the cook come up with a version which is supposed to fix the problem, but new problem surfaces. We have to make hard choices there again. To stick with a more stable cooked ROM and perhaps forgo many newer functionalities, or to go for the newer stuff, but less stable and bug free?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Do you mean 1.18.723.2?

Is this a star hub ROM from Singapore?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Then you're not quite a power user as you said you are. Depending on what I'm doing, I might be very happy if my HD could last me four to six hours of continuous heavy use. I often use up not only my battery but also the spare one during the day. I too run out of battery with iPhone, and it suffers the disadvantage of not being able to swap in a spare battery. Would have to seriously look at Fallenczar's recommendation on this.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I have be using the HD for a month or so (with my current cfg). Frankly, I did not encourter freezes (i.e. requiring reset) while using it normally. Yes, there are occasional freezes (~5 sec) in certain apps like RSSHub. The TF3D self-unload/reload at midnight seems to reclaim RAM. I know the Audio_Manager sometimes hogs the CPU for a period of time. Other than that my CPU idle has been a constant 98-99% even after many days of uptime. Same with free RAM.

So those freezes that you talk about, I suspect maybe caused by some 3rd party apps or cooked roms.

I dont really care as long as the ROM I am using is stable. Those TF3D aesthetic mods dont really interest me. Only one I have installed is the TouchResponse. The stock ROM (after installing all the HTC hotfixes) has been very stable for me. Response time is also good (not as good as S60 or Iphone) but nothing that is irritating.

I dont consider myself a power user if power user is defined as people who use cooked roms or who always want tinkle with their phone or have a need to install or checkout every software under the sky or one who play game all day or hack their phone just to make it look different.

What I demand from a phone is that it does my regular things properly without fail (email, call, sms, PIM, IM/VOIP, rss/podcast, ebooks). I also want the phone to take care of me and not the other way round. So capability that are very important to me are things like automatic profile (no need to remember to silent phone during meeting etc) or BT-sync (no need to remember to plug in phone), time-based call filter (dont want to be disturb during odd hours), scheduled sms sending (e.g. send a birthday greeting automatically). I would also like to have GPS navigation since I do use it regularly. Less important are blogs, social networking or watching video. Things that are absolutely useless to me are games or show-off apps (ifart anyone).

So those things that are important to me are currently working very well on WM/S60 and which Iphone can't do or can't do well (i.e. need jailbreak plus no guarantee apps work well) for many of them. On the other hand, those things that are useless to me are what Iphone is good at.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
I think there is a thread in this forum about a survey of hd owners. Most hd owners dont have freezing problem. I have never had problem with freezing but then again im still using a stock rom and only install apps that are fully compatible with hd. I have 1.14.479.3(25874) WWE

I think majority of winmo owners dont flash their rom but only install apps.

I think cellphones are like cars, sometimes you get a bad unit with lots of problems but sometimes you get a unit with absolutely no problem at all.

these are all the apps i have installed

sprite backup,tomtom,iGuidance 2009,net cf 3.5,.net config,s2u2,htc start menu icon,ipc black dialer,apptodate,core player,glass clock,google maps,htc calculator,pocket mecahanic,touch response,kav anti virus,change screen,WIMP,beeline GPS,resco bubbles,xtrakt,15 puzzle,pocket grandmaster,pgm announcements,birdsoft all-in hold'em,EA monopoly here and now,hd tweak, wiebbe's water level and micromega mss converter.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
You mean this one?

http://xdaforums.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111

I'm aware of that thread. Guess who started that thread? ;)

About 2/3 of HD users report hanging of varying degree. Not sure if the other 1/3 cast their vote prematuredly or not, but anyhow lucky them if after the vote is cast till now they still had no hanging and freezing.

This is why I said that the stability of iPhone is a refreshing change for me. I'm not really disturbed by HD's hanging. It's just so much better to have almost no hanging in iPhone even after jailbreaking.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
You are so very lucky your Iphone almost never hang with jailbreak. ;) My friend has given up jailbreak because he was having so many issues with it esp horrendous battery life, stability issues and certain crucial built-in apps stopped working after jailbreak. Maybe I am also lucky since I have no issue my HD. In your survey for those who are having problems with HD, how many do you think have hacked their phones or use cooked roms?

Anyway I have summarised of what we have debated so far except freezing part. Feel free to cry foul. ;)
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Yes thats the thread. Eaglesteve maybe you have defective unit. Im one of the lucky one's. never encountered hanging or freezing problem. Thank God! No dead pixels either!
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Ok. So as referee and basing on the above summary from mib1800. I declare Touch HD as the KING and iPhone is first runner-up. Show is over folks now lets move on! Since iPhone camp rely heavily on what will be in the future os upgrades. I honestly think winmo 7 will be able to pilot a commercial airplane in the future. let see if osx 4 will be able to do that.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Then 2/3 of us are having defective units. I don't believe it is due to detective devices.

IMO, the instablity, locking up, freezing is an OS/software issue in most probability, not a hardware one.

My thoughts:

- It is highly unlikely that hardware is the cause. Evidence: freezing, locking up happens across all vendor platform, not just any specific manufacturer.

- It is possible that microsoft OS itself is responsible, due to memory leaks, or not have a built-in mechanism to clean up the mess left behind by third party software.

- It is more likely that third party software in winmo devices play the greatest part in causing the frequent freezing.

- Another possible cause is cooked ROMs, which may not be as thoroughly tested as they should.

People are sometimes adviced to install third party applications one at and time to see which is the offending software.

Fact of life is, we buy the device to run software. Unfortunately, there is no system of quality control in winmo to ensure that they are well bahaving. This is one of the reasons why Apple exercises tight control over what applications are allowed to do, and what they would release in the Apple Store. However, this control is not there once you move to jailbroken software.

A vast majority of winmo users experience instability/freezing/need for contant reboot, whereas a vast majority of iPhone users don't. The simple explanation for this is that most winmo users do need to use lots third party software which may not be well behaving. In the case of iPhone, the first generation iPhone was extremely stable because then nobody was doing jailbreaking yet for a while. Now, it is still relatively more stable compared to winmo devices, because a vast majority of our software still come from applestore even for jailbroken phone. I for example, never use winterboard and will never want to. I use only very few applications from Cydia, which explains why it is still so stable. Another person who customizes the device inside out may experience more instability as a result.

Shipped winmo ROM is not always more stable than cooked ones. I think it depends also on which cooked ROM and which applications you have installed. It is hard to pin down the cause of the freeze. Sometimes the device could run without problems for days if you're lucky. In other times, you need to keep resetting to bring it back to working orders. It is very difficult to identify the offending third party software, so most people simply look at their requirements, install whatever they need to use, and live with the instability that crops up once in a while. Same for cooked ROM. Many are unwilling to be left behind with older ROMs, so they hard SPL and flash the cooked ones, sometimes because they got bored with the old appearance, sometimes to get brand new functions and features (such as those in Dutty's Extreme 1.8 to 2.6 ROM).

As to the questions on how many of us are using cooked ROMs, I suspect it is the vast majority, judging by the popularity (in both number of posts as well as the viewing statistics).
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I'll post my version later. Watch this space.;)
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Psst, Pass on - The King Has No Clothes.

Since you are so hopeful about WinMo 7, Let me ask you this, When is it releasing - Any fixed time frame for that??
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Here's a novel line of thought:

1) Your phone does not define who you are, therefore.....

2) .....when someone criticises your phone, it is not a condemnation of your very existence, thus.....

3) .....you don't need to act like a total weenie on this thread.