yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
You're right. Brightness will definitely not an issue. Most people think it's brightness is amazing anyway. The video reviews also did not show any noticeable difference between HD and iphone,if I recall.

At the end of the day, everyone has one's own preference. I loved iphone myself until just before I was wanted to buy it. I found it not a good phone for me after all for reasons I've already mention, but I can see why some would find it appealing.

HD has lots of room for improvements I'm sure,but the same could be said of iphone. I'm sure the next generation iphone and next generation HD will be better and this will not be the last time we'll evaluate and compare them. At this moment, HD wins my support more.

BTW, would you mind pm me with some links for your usual iphone forums? I'd like to keep up with the development on three key areas: office application, navigation, and keyboard, as I've found these to be area of greatest concern to me.
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
Eaglesteve.... Don't do it!!! Get the iPhone!!!!

Hi Eaglesteve.

Ok I'm going out on a limb here. I usually only like to compare opinio etc, but in this case I feel it necessary to speak my experience of using the iPhone instead of comparing feature sets and UI's.

Many I am sure will ROFL their ..... off, but I know that XDA developer members come from an incredibly large variety of different cultures, races and countries, not to mention lifestyles.

Mine is a relaxed life where I have much time on my hands. Let's just keep it at Im disabled and find full time employment impoosible. Hence I have time to read:.)

I spend a lot my spare time trying out all sorts of software and Reading up on new technologies, but am always drawn back to mobile communications devices, but I've always found them lacking in the multimedia department.

Some may say... Quit whining and go buy yourself a PSP.

STOP!!! This is too important. Let's type this ip properly and post back ok about an hour.

I'll me back. Eaglesteve don't do anything yet.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Fair play, i think you're right. the iPhone is the only device that i feel threatens the status of my beloved HD as the No1 handset. What can i say? fair cop, you got me there.

Having said that, other than the UI (which arguably has been apples biggest success through all its products) and maybe, just maybe the screen (which still has its draw backs and limitations) i honestly think the HD is the best touch phone on the market.

I do like the iPhone, it is undeniably stylie and i think in the coming generations it will get better and maybe become one of the best phones on the market? But as it stands it is weak as a mobile phone, its audio playback is poor and its battery isn't removable.

Surely these things alone make the HD a better phone device?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
My dear friend,

I appreciate your input very much. Yesterday, I actually made up my mind to get an iPhone and to carry an additional WM device to make up the shortcoming. Unfortunately, the 2 hours playing with iPhone gave me enough frustration and resolved to get real serious in bidding just for the HD (after also 2 unsuccessfully bidding for iPhone), and I won my bid last night. So, my HD is on the way (I hope).

However, I still very much like to know and keep up with the few areas that I found iPhone to be weak at.

One area that I had tremendous problem with using the iPhone keyboard arise from the fact that it requires tremendous precision and my finger is just too big for that. Also, once I got to the right key, I must take my finger off quickly, otherwise a stream of the same character appeared. I found WM mobile screen to be much easier to control as it would not prematurely register a key until I slightly press my finger. Perhaps this takes some practice and getting use to? But is there better keyboard from third party available? You know I love Tengo keyboard and you would know how easy it is to type in Tengo, having only 6 big hitting areas. I know Tengo is unavaible in iPhone, but how about something similar? Perhaps combining two keys into one hitting area ?

Today, I visited another Telco shop and spoke to another assistance about iPhone. He told me that they sell stylus to be used with iPhone for people like me who find problem using the keyboard and Safari with finger. Have you heard anything about such a special stylus?

To be honest, media playing capability of WM is satisfactory for my need. I watch lots of youtube, and most of them play in excess of 100% anyway. I'm not in the habit of transferring movies into my device. Not that I don't like movies. It's just that I'd rather watch them on my Home Theatre system.

I directly saved lots of youtube videos on my storage card. I do have out of sync situation with some of them (especially those Karaoke type of videos), but I'm quite happy not looking at the mouth of the singer and still enjoy the clip. I'm able to adjust Coreplayer's setting to reduce the synchronisation problem. You remember the 10000BC video that you made when you still had your Athena? I still have that on my storage card, and to be honest that really was very very good. I understand your expectation when come to video playing. My expectation is no where near there. Anyway, the (youtube) source file of the stuff I watch are not of that quality to begin with. Having said that, the media playing weakness of Coreplayer might very soon be history. See this thread:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=446620
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I've got to say, one of the *strengths* of the iPhone's keyboard in my opinion is that you *don't* need any precision with it at all. The weakness is it takes more than a couple of hours playing with it to realise that. What you have to teach yourself to do is simply type away without stopping to correct any mistakes, as the iphone will do this for you - it's auto correction is excellent, and as long as your fingers were somewhere near the key you meant to hit, nine times out of ten it will return the right word. Once you get going it's very fast and very accurate, without the need for any particular care taken on your part.

Yes the keys are very responsive, just like the rest of the interface - there's none of the lag you'll find in WM, and that again is a strength, once you get used to it.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Huh? In what possible way is the iphone's audio playback "poor"?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I guess I did not realise that the keyboard does not require precision. In that case, it may be as good as Tengo, although the other problem that I had was it just shot out string of the same charactor because I did not remove my finder quickly enough.

While it may have the intelligence to guess correctly the key I want without requiring precision, the same thing could not be said about weblink. I did find it challenging to click on the right link in Safari. While I could zoom in before clicking, the procedure is a little clumpsy after a while, hence my preference to use a stylus in such a small screen.
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
Life changing experience? what an iPhone? Nuts!! No it isn't.

Yes you can get an Iphone compatible stylus and I have read that they work rather well. The keyboard works better than anything else I have ever typed on but Not at first. It took some getting used to, even with big fingers lol, but it will fall into place.

my Previous start to a post is now finished;

The iphone redefines the way we do many things with our devices today.

Hi Eaglesteve.

Ok I'm going out on a limb here. I usually only like to compare opinion etc, but in this case I feel it necessary to speak my experience of using the iPhone instead of comparing feature sets and UI's.

Many I am sure will ROFL their ..... off, but I know that XDA developer members come from an incredibly large variety of different cultures, races and countries, not to mention lifestyles.

Mine is a relaxed life where I have much time on my hands. Let's just keep it at I’m disabled and find full time employment impossible. Hence I have time to read:.)

I spend a lot my spare time trying out all sorts of software and Reading up on new technologies, but am always drawn back to mobile communications devices, but I've always found them lacking in the multimedia department.

Some may say... Quit whining and go buy yourself a PSP.

STOP!!! This is too important. Let me type this up properly and post back in about an hour.

I'll be back. Eaglesteve don't do anything yet……..

……OK I’m back. As I was about to illustrate…yes I like a game or 2 on my ckoice of mobile comms device. I also like to stream video and catch up on missed episodes of certain programs now and again. I even like to watch High Def looking quality videos on my small 3.5” screen, or like to listen and scroll through my Albums (graphically). There are so many things I like to do every now and a again with my ‘device’, be it an iPhone 3G, Touch HD or Siemens XYZ2i (only joking about the last one lol)….but seriously, what do all technology lovers really love, the features and subsequent enabling capabilities of our chosen mobile device? Or the latest and greatest ‘fashion approved’ gizmo? Or if your anything like me, you do not follow the masses simply because that is what they are doing?

I certainly don’t follow fashion (I feel too old for that), instead I follow the areas of technology that I can foresee myself using to enhance the way I live my life. Technology does not have the same effect for everyone and many can happily live without all theses feature sets, that we so often discuss in forums such as this one.

My point is this….I love to learn and where possible, acquire the technology that I have learned/read about that can make my life easier to manage and make me more efficient in whatever I do that encompasses voice/data communications. I don’t blindly buy any device due to popularity. Hence the reason why I totally ignored the iPhone for its first year. Just thought Apple is now jumping on the Smartphone bandwagon…big deal! HTC and other WM devices have been doing all this for years and are much more feature rich and better for work......to be continued.....
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Mackaby,

Agree with you. I too hope iPhone will arrive one day to be the best phone, although it is not yet today. There are so many nice thing to say about this phone, which was the reason I felt like being torn between two good women.

I was frankly quite surprised at how much third party software are already out there. Give it a Tom Tom 7, a Softmaker, and a replaceable battery and I can see myself immediately switching to it. edit: oh, I think cut and paste is more important than I thought. Can't handle serious typing and composing without it.

The inability to transfer file by bluetooth, etc are things that I can do without.

I personally think that Microsoft stands to lose out big time if it does not come up with something really good with its WM7. The chance of iPhone getting an office and navigation software up and running appear to be greater than MS getting its act together in my view. I therefore see a good possibility that my next device is going to be the third generation iPhone, with a replaceable battery, microSDHC card slot, and full range of critical software.

It was a pleasure sharing with everyone, and I'm sure we all appreciate your contribution.

BTW, if you hear of any development in the navigation and office application area, I would appreciate you letting me know.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
I must admit , the iPhone is a fantastic device (Wife has one) The UI is brilliant, little touches such as data monitor and disable interenational data when roaming (built into the OS) show that Apple have put a little thought into it. Not to mention how email with pictures are presented on the screen (compare this to WMs pathetic effort) and how SMS conversations are presented.

Heck! lets face it, even the iPhone has greater developer support now. There are more NEW apps being released for iphone than for WM. WM has lost pretty much all its ACTIVE support. eg, why no facebook, shazam or even BBC iPlayer for WM??

However as lovely a piece of tech the iPhone is, what lets it down is Apples control. How they purposefully lock down and restrict the device. No BT file transfer for example is unacceptable. The fact that I would be forced to surrender all of my media to itunes is UNACCEPTABLE. I Could not use the iPhone as my main smartphone unless Apple loosened their grip on its potential/features. Until this happens, I will stay with WM.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Mackaby,

Is the poor signal strength problem in iPhone something that could be resolved in a jailbroken iPhone?
[Touch HD General] trentend:
I think if people look at both sides of this statement, they might better decide whether a HD or iPhone is best for them. I have chosen the HD for what are, for me, very good reasons. The iphone doesn't do what I want. I don't care how much You like it.

When a problem comes to light with the iphone, all the apple fanboys go quiet (and pretend there isn't a problem), and pray that an upgrade fixes it. When it does, often a very long time if ever after the problem emerged, everyone upgrading has to wait for jailbreaking to catch up and if they upgrade to solve their problem, they (temporarily) lose the advantages of jailbreaking. It's a terrible position to be in, exacerbated by apple controlling what applications you can load to your device.

If there is a problem with a WM device, it is fixed here (or a work around found), and everything continues as before.

I like that more than anything.
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
No probs my friend.;) Meanwhile there is a project in place that is working on an improved Bluetooth Stack/software to enable features we are udes to having, though I fear the movement is somewhat lacking in momentum.

Read here;

http://www.modmyi.com/forums/iphone...scussion/275551-project-iphone-bluetooth.html

As for navigation software; I'll def keep you updated on that Steve as it is a major concern for me too (itching to ditch my Athena..lol). Having said that, there are 2 very important points to take into consideration.

I'll try to find those links later for further reading, but Google are soon to release a brand new voice controlled app that will allow verbal commands to do what the fingers do and it will be integrated to work with Google Maps. This will enable, by voice recognition or similar technology, for the user to speak and sddress into the iphones mic and it will find it and do all that you can by typing!! Also the possibility of turn-by-turn voice navigation.That's due anytime now...was expected unofficially a couple of days ago, if I recall correctly.

Also Google Streetview is rumoured to making its debut on the iPhone 3G as a permanent Firmware feature (free to all Iphone owners running FW 2.2 upwards :)).

There's so much more happening in iphone development, I seriously struggle to keep up with it all. But I respect and understand your position and decision. You need something for the things you do NOW with possibilities of being future proof for a fair period. Is that right Eaglesteve? Correct me here if I lost the plot.:)

Due to my lifestyle, my need for certain things are less important and probably the reason why I can live with, in my view, overcomeable short-term issues with the iPhone.

However what I'm talking about is entirely different and thus conclude that the HD is almost perfect for your immediate needs and if that's all you need, you're already a winner in your decision made in favor of the HD.

But if your a fan of some of the things outlined in my previous post, you will see that my angle on my part of this whole dicussion stems from the realisation that this is another major turning point in the evolution of mobile technology and we are free to experience it as we choose.

I'm loving being in the mix of it. To me, the iPhone, in Microsoft terms is what Windows XP/Vista is to Windows '98. Worlds apart to look at and use, yet both can pretty much perform the same functions, albeit that one does it more in line with how we think and what is logical. You have a seperate iPhone just for the experience of it. It reminds one that humans build computers and not the other way round. IpHone does that for me.

Any, I'm rambling again lol.

Good luck ol buddy.
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
Absolutely, but I have no reception issues when running o2's Simcard (official carrier) but have (had) some intermitten loss of signal - poor reception areas for T-Mobie UK (didn't last long..seconds, and then it would auto-lock onto the signal or worst case scenario..soft reboot - but this is due to my hardware sim unlocker I placed in the iphone 3G, to sim unlock it until a software solution has been found). I have recently updated the software on my sim unlocker to version 5.8 and am experiencing no problems now in over 2 weeks.
[Touch HD General] pistonripper:
I agree with you guys.....

Microsoft will play catchup.....most likely they going to copy the Iphone UI and bloat it, because it does not matter what version of WM you have running on whatever platform..its always runs slow (can't say about the HD).

I have always had a WM device...and recently bought a iphone3g (although I use my Diamond much more).

Its not HTCs fault, theyre fighting a battle with one hand tied behind thier back...and they know how to fight!

Its Microsofts...the lazy $%$?@@?, look at the WM apps...

Messaging (do want to download the message ? , do want scroll left ?, right ? ...its just rubbish)..., calendar etc,they look crap and are crap..why do you have to wait for everything to load up, these are approx 4 year old apps (don't quote me ) and you still have a wait state on an 528Mhz device!!! uh !

And what is it with the menus ?, they look 90s. HTC have shown the way with the menus on the TF3D, they popup beautifully like good and are finger friendly

You've got scroll bars all over the place, resistive screens...because people like, and still develope for stylus inputs...can't believe that!

There is no "one look" for WM, it does not matter if you VGA QVGA or WVGA..once you are in the generic WM apps ...they look like s***

3rd party apps looks better....ie tomtom, copilot etc....

Touchscreen technology has advanced...take a look at the blackberry storm..and thats thier first attempt, because WM users insist on a stylus (because they have no choice)...we have to make do with "nearly as good" screens...again no fault of HTC...I'm sure they could give us the ultimate touchscreen..software willing.

Iphone Have shown us how touch hardware/software should be done...try using safari on a drop down select box....(ie autotrader.co.uk)...it actually enlarges the box into a scrolling wheel, to the lower half of the screen so selection is easier...that is genius...opera either you pull out the stylus or finger trial and error.

Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.14 ) needed to be here like yesterday...

WM is dated badly....and there was no development strategy/timeline whatsoever...its almost as if they left it behind the cupboard. Apple have got off to a good start and they will on no account let that go, thier updates and upgrades will be regular. I wonder if Windows 7 would have been announced if there was no Iphone (competiton is good).

Having said that ...still prefer my diamond (although a slighly larger screen would be nice)...All I do is is install 3rd pary touch friendly apps and use web based email, oh and tweak it for wider scroll bars!!

Sorry about the ramble...you really need to try the touch on an iphone.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
What poor signal strength?

I notice a lot of the questions about the iPhone here and elsewhere are of the "and when did you stop beating your wife?" type - I'm not singling you out Eaglesteve, I just think there's a lot of misinformation and wrong assumptions about.

The iPhone is a massively high profile device, which means when one reviewer gets one less antenna bar on his iPhone than he had on his last Nokia, that gets instantly reported to the entire world and by lunchtime everyone knows the iPhone has "poor signal strength", especially all those that have never been near one.

In my experience, "signal strength" is notoriously difficult to judge or compare on any phone, and virtually all phones will have odd signal problems in certain circumstances, regardless of the five bars on the next guy's handset. More often than not people judge signal purely on the bars on the meter without knowing whether they can actually make a call or not, which is nonsense since no two manufacturers calibrate their signal meters in the same way.

As far as the iPhone goes, its signal strength is fine as far as I can tell. I've only used the 2.1 firmware, but it's never dropped a call, or been out of service anywhere I wouldn't expect it on another phone. Data performance is good, and it always has 3G where I know there's coverage. It's pretty much identical to my Tytn II, and probably slightly better than my last Sony Ericsson phone. So what is there to be fixed by jailbreaking?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
WM OS without the third party is really difficult to use. However, with well designed third parth application, there is actually not a single instance where stylus is needed for me if I so choose.

Starting with the today screen. Whether you use somthing like TD3D or SPB Mobile shell, all operation are very finger friendly.

The standard keyboard can only be operated by Stylus . However, if you use somthing like Tengo or Tengo Thumb version, then stylus is completely unnecessary.

Next, the scroll bar. This again is no longer the case with something like TouchFlo, FtouchFLO, or FtouchSL. No need to worry about how thick the scroll bars are. Whether I'm in the start menu screen, start setting screen, contact list, word processing page, all movement from page to page are by finger scrolling or flicking.

Then the applications itself. This all depends on your choice of software. You can operate TomTom, iGO8, Calculator, and just about everything well designed with just finger. Of course, this also require a fairly large screen for the device to work. iPhone has larger screen than most of the winmo (beaten only by Athena and Touch HD), so was easier to operate with finger. Athena is extremely easy to operate 100% with finger because the screen is large enough for that. It is even possible to use finger on the standard keyboard in Athena.

At the moment, with my Athena, I sometimes chosed to use Stylus, not because I have to, but because it is a superior way when come to reading webpages and activating tiny links. In Opera, I could double tap to zoom in and activate the link with my finger, but I prefer to read the pages in zoom out mode and directly click on the links. So, having stylus as an additional option in certain situation is an advantage to me. Not being able to support stylus is a weakness, from my viewpoint anyway.

But it is true that many software could be designed differently, whether or not they run on winmo. In fact they could be designd to be as frendly as iPhone based application even if microsoft does not have WM7. Examples of such product includes VITO SMS Chat, Fun Contact, Geko New Cal, Resco Registry Editor, Tom Tom, iGO, etc.

Navigation and program switching in native winmo mode is painful. However, with something like wktask, you can have all running program shown on the taskbar and swtich from program to program with one single finger touch.

This is a long long way from the day when I first starting using winmo device.