yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
@ eaglesteve - good to see you've come around - I take it you've found yourself one of those iphone's that manages to hold signal? :)

Looking forward to June when the iPhone gets an official solution for virtually every shortcoming raised in threads like these -

copy & paste

picture messaging

stereo Bluetooth

SMS forwarding/deleting

turn-by-turn satnav support (expect an immediate TomTom release)

push notifications as a multitasking alternative

landscape keyboard in all apps

support for many more video codecs

app support for external hardware/networking

dozens of other new features/SDK extensions

We'll have a few more months of mock incredulity ("you mean the iPhone doesn't have/only just got that?!") but after that... Where does Winmo go from there? Is the hexagonal program launcher going to cut it? Don't think so.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Yep. No problem holding the signal with firmware 2.2.1.

If there is just one single wishlist for my iphone it'll be having Tom Tom, Garmin and Mapking ported to it.
[Touch HD General] spikez93:
get the iphone 3g i heard 8gb is better than 16gb so i will do you a deal :)

swap your HD for my Iphone :D
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I think that's a given now that Apple have dropped the SDK restriction against turn-by-turn in Iphone OS 3 - I'd be surprised if TomTom at least wasn't ready and waiting in the Appstore on the day of its release in June. Plus they're adding a new "subscription" pricing model to the appstore, so I'm guessing you'll be able to subscribe to map updates etc from your chosen provider.

I'm very impressed with the scope of the OS update coming - I half expected them to press on with a few new big headline features and the same old "we know best" attitude to the littler things like cut and paste etc, but instead it's as if they've compiled a list of criticisms from forums like these and ticked each one off in turn - the new iPhone OS now looks very feature complete. And top marks to them for planning to release this for free to every iPhone, including the now two-years-old 1st gen (albeit without some of the Bluetooth features and MMS, presumably due to hardware restrictions). Compare that to the likes of Microsoft and HTC, who won't be officially releasing WM6.5 to the HD or virtually any other existing phone on the market.

Of course there'll be at least one new iPhone model coming in June too - a 4G so to speak - all it needs is a whopping big camera with video, maybe a higher resolution screen.. combine that with OS 3 and it's hard to see how any phone based on WM6.x could compete.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Incidentally, there's a great guide to the new iPhone OS complete with many screenshots of the new features here - http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ar...de-to-iphone-os-30-for-iphone-and-ipod-touch/

Coming to an iPhone near you in three short months.
[Touch HD General] figeloal:
The reasons i bought the HD were higher resolution screen which makes a world of difference if you read on your phone( i am stuck in subway 90 minutes per day), the iphone really sucks on this department, much better battery life(i used my friends ihpone for a week, he borrowed me it to convince me to buy one, and it kept dying after 2 hours of my normal use which is a lot of webbrowsing, listen to music at the same time, and also reading pdf, sometimes watch simpons or something short, also wifi at my university, my HD last easy 4-5 hours with me doing the same things) and last i already have a stereo bluetooth headset so if i would have bought the iphone i might just throw it to the trash or well wait until june-july when OS 3.0 comes out.

But i do agree that with the crappy hardware the iphone is, apple managed to make a pretty nice OS.

Also for webbrowsing many say Safari is the best and the fastest, but thats not true either Opera Mini is much much faster, even if Opera Mini doesnt show many pages like it should it doesnt matter to me as all i do is read forums and articles when i am on the go.

Last i do have to add i would have loved a phone lite the HTC HD with the OS of the iphone :) I might even buy an iphone to my wife she will make good use of it...
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Don't know about your in your country. Here, an 8GB iPhone 3G is about AUD$400-450 cheaper than a new HD (both bought outright without contract). Assuming the same degree of wear and tear and age, are you prepared to make up the difference with cash? Make the swap a little fairer, and I think you'll be able to have a trade.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I am quite perplexed why no WM developer has done the group integration to outlook contact. I know it is quite easy to replace the default contact app with your own (via aliases). It should not then be that difficult to replace the default popup contact selector with your own that supports group (albeit a workaround one)

HD takes lousy picture in dark conditions. Iphone maybe better but it is just a slightly better crap than HD crap. I didnt explore playing around with the HD contrast/brightness/whitebalance settings. Not sure whether this will improves the photo in dark. If not, we just need to hope for a firmware update.

Maybe I look around. I mostly use album to review recently taken photos. At least HTC Album lets you view photo by selecting a folder. More flexibility compared to Iphone (I think).

I thought for WM you just do backup to memory card and restore from there using the bundled Sprite backup app. No need for PC/Itunes etc.

So without the ONE and only one advantage the WM has (according to you) over Iphone, are we looking at the demise of WM (or Symbian for that matter) comes summer?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Not according to my experience. It is far far better than HD in poorer lighting. I'll upload some of those pictures later.

Waiting for your find.

This strategy does not work if you move from WIM5 to WM6, or from WM6 to WM6.5. Whereas iTunes would take care of that.

For me, that is indeed the last reason for keeping my winmo device, and I do see the possibility of more users being attracted to iPhone with 3.0 firmware.

For others, such as a doctor, I foresee many new and sophisticated application in the medical fields being developed for the 3.0 firmware. Now I can already find some banking/finance/hotel applications which are only availale for iPHone but not winmo platform. This trend is likely to accelerate in the 3.0 firmware. At the end of the day, the device must meet your requirements. I personally think that some winmo users are just unaware that their requirements could also be met with an iPhone, and in a more experience pleasing way. Having said that, there will always be specific needs which iPhone does not have a software yet in the near future, and that alone would be enough for users to stick to the winmo platform.

Demise? No. There will alwasy be followers in every device, just like religion. And there will always be a small group of users with needs that can only be met with software that only exist on the winmo platform. Also, don't forget that WM7 will be released within the next year or so. There will be some revival of interest, I believe. It is not impossible that the new OS will provide a better user experience and less crash prone. There may also be a subset of users who are waiting to see what WM7 has to offer before making the decision to stay or switch away from WM devices. If they are pleased with it, it will reaffirm their decision to stay. If not, they may switch. I was terribly dissappointed with WM6.5 with its hexagonal program launcher type interface which I strongly detested. I was terribly dissaapointed with its new menu items and how jerky the whole thing was. That was what push me over to iPhone because I am not confident that WM7 will be much better although I know I could be wrong. So, just for me (not speaking for everyone else), my HD has just one utility left, which is to run the navigation software, because I can do most other things better in iPhone , and some other things not as good in iPhone but is acceptable. Like I said, for me at least, although I had thought that my requirements would only be met with winmo software, it turns out that once I research deeper into what iPhone can offer, I'm actually able to get BETTER software in MOST of the areas, at a small fraction of the cost.
[Touch HD General] harrispo:
A simple point to make:

iPhone users keep pointing to the updates in both software and hardware. Yes, the software updates are free, but the hardware updates come at a premium cost

You keep comparing the next-gen iPhone with the HTC Touch HD; by the time the new iPhone comes out, of course the Touch HD will have dated a bit, it's frigging common sense!

The comparisons you are making are completely unfair, in that sense. I could sit here and compare the next-gen Touch HD with the next-gen iPhone and say the Touch HD will win hands down

What I'm trying to get at is that Apple have promised all these sexy features but unless you have the device in your hand and run those features, you don't know how taxing they are on the resources and how useful they will prove to be!

At this point, in terms of both hardware and software functions, the iPhone is playing catch-up to the Touch HD. All these new additions - MMS, copy / paste, GPS software - have been available on the Touch HD from the start.

It's only natural that Apple would want to improve the iPhone BEYOND the scope and capabilities of the Touch HD. I am willing to bet my house that HTC will try to outdo Apple when they next upgrade their software / hardware.

You see how this works? It's called simple business. You didn't really expect Apple to develop a device that would cost more and do less than one that is already out, did you?
[Touch HD General] DrDistorzion:
I agree with you, you can't compare today and tomorrow. The reason this came up was more a fact relevant if you are in the proceedure of choosing device today, than iphone may not be a choice at all if you didn't know that these features are coming soon, and to the present hardware, so it is very relevant. But future hardware of the iphone can't be concidered in this discussion, as HTC will probably releas 10 devices during the time apple releases 1.

I think a little bit of producer philisophy is interesting to analyze here. Apples goal is to make a device that works perfect, there can't be any holdups, glitched and long waiting-times or problems with respons. I think the only possible answer to why they have taken such time to implement basic funktions like copy/past is their allmost unreallistic need for perfection. But this I think promises that when this update comes, it will be awsome.

When it comes to HTC's goals, it seams to me that hardware and features are their primary focus. They are allso limited by the fact that they have left the primary software-development to microsoft. I personally think that iphone will allways be slower in development, but it will allways be more matured and better working than HTC's phones, unless HTC deciedes to take on more of the softwarepart themselves, like making thir own custom Android-distribution tested and optimized for their devices.

I don't personally know how much HTC has been involved in the development of android for G1, but I'm pretty sure that if they decided to make their own android-distribution for their own devices, it would totally outperform winmo in both interface and stability.
[Touch HD General] Techvir:
agree 100%
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
+ 1. Totally agree
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I think the basic difference between HTC and Apple/Iphone is that HTC is 100% about the hardware - that's their business - they make their money from selling you their latest and greatest device and then that's it, the end, their only ongoing revenue is from luring you into buying the next phone after that.

Arguably, that's a recipe for promising the moon with a massive feature list to get you to buy, while leaving just enough room for dissapointment to still keep you salivating for the next device.

Apple's different. They make money from the sale of the iPhone sure, but they also make money on every app and itune you buy for it too, and (I'm guessing) from the networks as long as customers are on existing iPhone contracts. So they can afford to be a little more generous - adding many "new" features and improvements to existing phones as they've done with both OS2.0 and 3.0 - because it's not just about getting you to buy a new phone, it's also about encouraging you to use the phone you've got, and making sure you don't stray to a competitors product even if you can't afford the latest new iPhone hardware.

It's a strategy that works well for them, and for most of their customers, I'd say. With my last HTC phone, I couldn't wait to get shot of it by the end of my contract, as it had never really delivered on the promise of the spec list and aged fast next to all the shiny new HTC products - although HTC had certainly not earned the brand loyalty required for me to buy one of those. With the iPhone 3G, although they haven't released details of the new hardware yet, I'm already looking forward to the new OS and feeling like I'm getting a whole new phone halfway through my contract. I've invested in the ecosystem (far more than I did, or could afford to do, with WM) and it feels as if Apple are repaying that investment, so when they present shiny new hardware in June I won't feel any pressure to rush out and buy it now, but I most probably will move onto it when my 3G wears out.

HTC (and Microsoft) don't have that same continuity or inclusiveness. They're competing for custom from OS to OS, handset to handset, and from the customer perspective each and every purchase is a gamble, often rewarded with dissapointing performance and updates that are few and far between. It's not surprising that they don't engender the same sort of enthusiasm for their products.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
May be a little off topic here, but has anyone tried out using Android on HD and give a report on its responsiveness as compared to winmo OS? Would HD with Android be a better match against iPhone in terms of speed and responsiveness? What about the availability of software on Anroid? Much choices yet? If I want to research more into software for Android, is there sites that anyone of you could recommend?
[Touch HD General] DrDistorzion:
Hi, first I like to say that I agree 100% to the post before yours.

about android, I have tested the latest build available in the wiki, and I suggest everyone that is interested go ahead and test it, it's allready awsome! it sure has a long way to go, but the user interface is more slick, faster, nicer and it's certanly a step towards iphone. Check out Android Market if you want to see what apps are available.

I do have one concern however, I read somewhere that dev-phones with android were blocked from this market, I would like to know if that is the case, and why. (I heard it was due to security flaws), but if that's so, it allso means that us who want's to run android on blackstone wouldn't be able to use the market and that would be a serious restriction.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
What do you mean when you said android were block from "this market"? What is "this market" refering to?
[Touch HD General] DrDistorzion:
I think I read it in one of the two android-threads in the blackstone rom-forum, I don't have time too look it up right now, but search in the latest pages of those and you might find it.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Okay. Thanks for the info. Will try it out myself to get first hand knowledge.

Edit: Took a quick look at the two threads. Android for HD appears to be still under development, not ready for serious use yet. Am I right?
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I saw Eyephoto or s2v which was advertised as finger-friendly. I didnt try them tho. Not sure how is the performance.

I thought with those WM backup apps, you can selectively restore those components you want. :confused:

The way I see it is this. The things lacking with WM currently compared to Iphone are:-

1. UI

This one is quite easily rectified. WM6.5 will address part of it. I am pretty sure WM7 will take care of the rest. For those who value functions over forms the only thing lacking currently in 6.1 is the consistency of UI elements and the finger unfriendliness mostly in the settings screen. I dont think WM UI will achieve the level of prettiness of Iphone UI due to legacy reasons (just like S60v5) such as the needs to support TS as well as non-TS, keypad/board or various screen resolution or single-handed use etc.

2. AppStore

We will just have to see how MS Marketplace will play. I think it will have a good chance of success and definitely will be more orderly than AppStore due to restriction on submission of apps. We may get more quality and serious apps instead of quantity. I read somewhere everyday AppStore is adding something like 150 apps. By end of the year end that'll be 60K apps. But we also know a lot of those are repeats i.e. one developer making many apps which are just variations of one app or constantly updating so that his/her app will show up in the "new" or "updated" list.

But on the other hand, the hurdles Iphone needs to clear are:-

1. Will "push-notification" be as functional as true multi-tasking. Nothing is clear on this. Will this service be bundled as part of MobileMe where users will need to subscribe so that you can have your IM.

2. Will GPS navigation work properly without multi-task (i.e. what happen if a call comes in?) or when will TT/Garmin/Mapking will be realised?

3. Hardware capability? When will we see something like 8MP / 720p vidrec like what is coming with OmniaHD?

I think the 3rd point is very crucial. It certainly overshadows the availability of apps when it comes to buying decision.

Actually at this moment nobody really has a very clear idea what is total or kind of software available for WM. Maybe when MS Marketplace is launched it will become more apparent. How big is the back catalog? And if we include those Java / Palm apps the quantity can be quite substantial.

You are really doing very good job tempting me to buy an Iphone. :lol However, I dont know whether I can resist the lure of OmniaHD or N97. ;)

For me, at least at this moment in time I would not get Iphone over HD since there are still too many deficiencies with Iphone (3.0 will reduce that somewhat) incl. ability to multi-task, GPS nav, IM/VOIP, run a few UI shells at same time and of course the completeness of the out-of-box capability.

Personally, I still think S60 is a better and more complete platform than both Iphone and WM.
[Touch HD General] antrak:
Wait for an nVidia powered phone IMO. That's what I would do. :rolleyes:.

If I would be in the market for a phone right now I would certainly just wait and use a Nokia 3310 :P.

Too bad my contract still has a year to go. :eek:
[Touch HD General] Khalild:
I really don't understand fanboyism. Why can't people just think that different people will like different devices. I'm just glad we live at a time when you can choose between exciting platforms, and its only going to get better. Iphone, android, wm, and now palm. These OSs all have their strong and weak points and they are all just going to keep getting better.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Actually the iPhone 3G does have HSDPA, but apparently only to speeds of 3.6Mbps (still considerably faster than "traditional" 3G). The new iPhone rumoured to be coming in June alledgely brings that maximum up to 7.2Mbps. There's a certain amount of mystery and confusion about all this however, and how much it has to do with the hardware/software on the iPhone as opposed to what the networks (eg AT&T in America) are actually allowing the iPhone to connect at. In reality, nobody gets 7.2Mbps on any phone at the moment, although some mobile broadband services (running on USB dongles) do genuinely reach that speed.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Sounds like lots of things to look forward to in June.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I think that sums it up well. At first the iPhone was all style over substance - I was just as scathing about the original iPhone as anyone, it was little more than a glorified iPod with limited phone functionality and a nice UI - but bit by bit, feature by feature, the expansion on that simple foundation has left the competition floundering, IMHO. OS2 brought serious functionality with Exchange support etc, and the Appstore allowed the very solid OS and hardware underpinnings to be exploited to the full. Now we're about to see the last few self-imposed limitations be lifted, and a checklist of other "missing" features to be filled, and all the old dismissive statements about the usefullness of that "eye-candy" UI now have a thoroughly hollow ring. The iPhone still has the best interface by a country mile, it still has all the speed and responsiveness that WinMo lacks (and all the cooked ROMs promise but never deliver), and now it has all the best apps and a very strong, business-like featureset as well.

Meanwhile, Windows Mobile stands still, with minor cosmetic improvements at the cost of even more bloat in 6.5. You really have to wonder what MS have been thinking of, these last couple of years.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I was initially critical of iPhone too, and you and I used to debate against each other from the opposite side of the fence in some other threads ;)
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
OMG, (not trying to be rude), but this most be the shortest posting you have done on this thread!!!!:eek::D
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
He he he. Is this shorter even?
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
Touche!!

Don't get me wrong I've read almost all postings in this thread, but I can safely say about 80% has come from you!!:D

Interesting posts, though I'll stick with my HD and possibly have a look at the new iphone when its released!!...and probably still not convert!!
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I'm only a late participant to this thread, mate. Just wanting to contribute in ways I know I can to help others, but certainly not here to push my idea down anyone's throat.

By all means take a look at iPhone with firmware 3.0. However, you really need to try out the third party software at the applestore because that's where the biggest attraction of this lies, IMO. The choices are so wide there (other than GPS and Office documents editing software).

But I don't know if they're coming up with a third generation iPhone though. My neighbour works for Foxconn, which is the Chinese company which manufactures all iPhones, and according to him there is'nt such a model in the pipeline to his knowledge. Of course, it is possible that Apple could be getting another company to do the manufacturing, or that he's simply not in touch with what's going on in his own company.
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
Totally agree with you. They're a multitude of 3rd apps available for the iphone which would make a a welcomed purchase, but for what I need the apps available for the HD more than suffice.

I thought I heard leaked info that a 3rd generation iphone was due for release late summer 2009?