yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
each to his own

I have to admit that most arguments in favor or against the one device or the other are all valid to varying degrees and I won't disagree with anyone as each person knows their requirements.

Many thanks to you all for sharing your comparisons and experiences. In time I am positive that the iPhone 3G will be able to provide all the features that one would expect ok a WM device as most differences are down to software availability.

AN is still the most versatile and so it should be. It's been around almost ten years now coming from WinCE etc. If you need specific features that cannot be found in the iPhone arena and these features are of paramount importance, then the choice will be an easy one....Touch HD.

However, for my needs the iPhone is perfect and currently can do far more than I need it too.

TomTom have a working iPhone version that works perfectly - will it ever see light of day though? Time will tell. I'd it does my Athena will be history (I only use it for iGO GPS).

Corecodec have a perfectly working version that according to corecodec outperforms everything else that they have tested coreplayer on.... due to the iPhone's hardware accellerator (PowerVR MXLite as used in dreamcast console) and a powerful 667 Mhz CPU.

I usually only need to be able to read office applications and the iPhone has many apps that allow that. If I really need to edit or produce any MS based office documents, I can use one of many remote desktop clients through 3G or wifi to do it directly on my home of from my iPhone. But if I had to do this on a daily basis I would find an easier way. Many solutions exist for the iPhone for many but not all things mentioned in this thread, but you have to an XDA developer minded iPhone enthusiast to know where developers are already working on or have beta versions of these types of solutions, via the jailbreak system.

One last thing to remember that the iPhone is only 1.5 years old and the iPhone 3G is only just over 4 months old.....and yet look at the software development that has taken place in such a short space of time. If you can wait for further progress in the coming months, you'll be glad you did. Otherwise WM is in my opinion still the most versatile mobile O/S, it's just cumbersome to use and ugly to look at compared to Apples effort.

Thanks to Eaglesteve for his research on the iPhone as I will be delving further into some of those links.

Good luck all and have a great day.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes I've made but typing on this iPhone can be so quick that I forget to look back at what I've typed. Fastest text input I've used bar full sized real keyboard.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
As you know my HD has gone back, but I will say that for iPhone, I just plug it into my PC at work for a couple of hours, to keep it topped up.

I know I will not keep it long enough for battery replacment to become an issue, but I would score a big plus to devices with removeable batteries for people who keep things longer than me (which is most people :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
For Kev....

Hi Kev,

Did you have to pay a re-stocking fee on return of your HD? Who did you get it from (if you don't mind me asking)

Sent you a PM to same effect

Thanks

Don
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
I already have the iPhone 3G mate, and have since a week after launch, so that is how I apporached the HD. I really think if I had NOT already got the iPhone, it owuld have been the HD for me, and I would have had to get used to lack of D-Pad.

Now, as for Turn by Turn Sat Nav, I really am in two minds on this. On all my other devices, which have been many, lets see....

N95, N95 8GB, Kaiser, E90, E71, E61, Diamond, Trinity, E65, every XDA from the original, and honestly, loads more, I have put TomTom on as one of my first things, but silly little things like, you stop to go into a shop, and if your PHONE is your SAT NAV, you have to either stop and quit TomTom, or wlak around the shop with it talking in your pocket :-)

I now use whatever phone (iPhone) and my Trinity (SPV M700, so cheap on eBay now!) which has a superb screen, for TomTom, and that leaves me free to have Google Maps running on the iPhone.

This allows me to use the Trinity as a virtually dedicated Sat Nav, but as it also has a "3" sim with 5GB data per month (got it when ot was only £7.50 a month) it doubles up as a modem when I am out and about.

I do agree, iPhone is not for you, the lack of any editable document support rules that out, although I can never see why people use these tiny devices for that, now that little netbooks like the EEE or Acer can be had for so little money.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Well, see my other reply about Sat Nav, not sure if it applies to others, but for me having it seperate is nice sometimes.

The thing about the iPhone is this, if you already had one, I promise you would forgive/overlook a lot of the shortcomings, simply because of all the things it does really well.

Can you get to a store where they will let you play with a live iPhone, or any friends have one etc?

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I've been playing with iPhone on Telco shops for quite a while already. The problem is I can't bring it home to test out the applications that I'm investigating/evaluating.

I don't want to carry two devices in my pocket, and I do not want to leave a GPS in my car. It is inviting thief to smash my windscreen. They know the usual place that we hide (the glove compartment, under the seat, in the booth etc). If I use a GPS in my car, it must be removed and taken with me when I leave the car. That's why I would like it running on a single device, if possible.

I provided a link to iGO on iPhone earlier. Has enyone looked into this? Perhaps iGO is further down the road than TomTom?

As for office, I do type out fairly extensive documents on my 5 inch Athena screen with the excellent Tengo keyboard. I also have lots of personal spreadsheets that I create on my Athena. Many of such documents are reference information that I use quite frequently, while others are modelling and analysis tools. I do need them to be available in a non-cumbersome way.

I do see these two areas to be the key to my own decision on whether to choose iPhone or Touch HD. I hear Mackaby's point in that in due course these would surely be addressed. I agree. These weakness of iPhone is too glaring to be left unaddressed.

On the hardware side, the only issue is the life of the hardwired, non-replaceable battary. It is unacceptable to run out of juice in a typical four hour golf game, with GPS, phone, and sometimes music all on at the same time.
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
must be a jailbroken iPhone!!

you're quite right mate. There is nothing like experiencing things first hand. But I just wouldn't touch an iPhone with a long pole if it were not for jailbreaking. This is what allows the greatest development outside of standard iPhone development via the appstore.

I also lime to customize my device to look and behave in a manner that suits me. The standard iPhone 3G does not give me this, but jailbroken? The sky's the limit. :)
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
It is starti g to look like the Touch HD for you Eaglesteve, due to specific software requirements. Such issues cannot be ignored, I understand.

As for iGo8 for the iPhone....that looks sweet as... I can wait. I still use my Athena and won't get shot of it until full turn by turn voice navigation is available for the iPhone 3G.

With regards to the golf applications, they'll make the right type eventually. LOL.

As for editable Microsoft office apps, I doubt that will happen on a Mac O/S, but it might happen over on the jailbreaking scene as many ex-xda guys & gals have moved over to Apple but still wish to retain MS office tools and apps.

I researched the iPhone/iPhone 3G before purchasing either of them, but only for my own needs as I do require strong multimedia capabilities.

Anyway I haven't played with the HD as yet and this only have the Athena and Kaiser for comparison to the iPhone 3G. But if I ever rated the Athena as 8/10, due to poor multimedia support, then I would have to rate the iPhone as 10/10 with all it's shortcomings due to the user experience. It's second to none.

The next Incarnation of the iPhone should be beyond reproach, but I have a funny feeling that WM7 based devices carrying the upcoming hardware chip from Nvidia will blow even Apples efforts clean out of the water. These will be exiting times as many manufacturers of WM devices will be able to use this very powerful and advanced technology.
[Touch HD General] Bipin saspara:
few basic thing iphone can't do.

correct me if i am wrong.

you can dial faster by any wm device because it use t9 to filter contact while searching then you do by iphone.

you can't forward sms by iphone.

you don't have basic office application to work daily use.

i have used qtek8810, qtek s100, qtek 9100, tytn ,tytn ii, touch, touch diamond, lg ks20, eten glofiish x800 , and orderd HD.

i tried i phone the older one when it arrived. in one day i sold to friend. because of this three matter.
[Touch HD General] Super Chimp:
Really interesting thread, some good information on here.

As an aside it's interesting to note the Nokia 5800 will probable outsell them both put together, especially at it's low price.

Hope we see some three way comparisons including the 5800 when it's out.
[Touch HD General] hagba:
I will give my oppinion about this iphone phenomina:

If you use an Iphone for over a long period it is not just addictive but also will render you very LAZY,yes lazy with its so simple and affective users Interface,every thing is so simple,no hidden files no nothing,just push the icon et voila..its abslutely no brainer for me,so after a long period of using it, WM could very easily become an Interface from another planet,specially for people of common middle aged like myself.

But yet again,as it was mentioned somewhere else here in this forum,I am still waiting for a device to be "born",with Iphone UI and WM applications.

And, no, Iphone doesnt support File Manager nor Street View GPS,besides not supporting,Java,Flash Player,Midp,Copy&Paste,Push email,Download On browser and so on,but it may if you can wait for FW update No.999 ,feel free to add couple of Zeroes if you wish so:)

Im afraid the applications at the Appstore are too many of the same duplications ,nothing to my needed essantials.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
I find that I put all my most called contacts in my favorite list, then it is two quick presses on my home button, then one press on contact. If you have a keyboard WM unit (not a slide out, a fixed one) then WM is much easier.

Not sure how important this is TBH.

Forwarding SMS is something I never do, so for me again, not an issue.

Well, BASIC office applications? not really, but you can read most office docs, and Documents To Go is Coming (read only to start, read write next year)

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
I don't understand some of what you have written, but I can say that Street View seems to be coming in 2.2 software, I already have a File Manager thanks, I use Push Email every day.

Not sure about java or flash, but all I know is that mobile Safari, allows me to surf more sites well, than ANY other browser on ANY other mobile platform.

Download on browser? well, with the App store, anything you need to download comes automatically, and I have not missed that feature, what would you use that for?

Copy and Paste is an annoying one I will give you, but before the iPhone came along, I don't recall using it that much on my other mobile devices?

Kev
[Touch HD General] Insaneboy:
For example, i do a bit translating on the side, so i can go to a site, download the latest stuff for translation, save them to my HD and translate them right there with Word. :p
[Touch HD General] hagba:
Forwarding is very important,if you recieve a SMS and want to forward it to another contact,i do it on my Iphone by using a very cool application called WeTools,with this same app,you can also save your recieved SMS to the iphones notepad.

As for making phone calls,I have the pictures of my important contacts,such as my wifes!!set on the home screen as Icons,just one touch and will make a call,the name of this app,is SpringDial,both of these applications you can get them free from the installer if you are jailbroken,

I hope I am clearer and more understandable this time..!!since the English is not my native language.

And yes i love my Iphone but i am not its slave to overlook or cover iup ts shortcomings..!!
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
Well you stand corrected. With the exception of Flash Player, the iPhone 3G is capable of all you mentioned via 3rd party apps once Jailbroken.:)

This will get very boring very soon if people write their opinions down before doing a bit of homework. As recently mentioned, some of these features are simply not standard to the iphone interface because Apple thinks it unnecessary....that doesn't mean the device cannot do it. WM devices cannot play FLV videos natively, can they? Yet most of use third party software to enable just that. The iPhone is no different. It's just a different operating system to WM who are very well established.

P.S. It's not down to how many devices you have or currently own....it's about what you do with them. A standard WM device bog-standard is so uninspiringly boring to look at let alone use. The iPhone standard wins in this department hands down. Now customize each device according to ones preferance and suddenly things look completely different.

Just my 2 cents worth, to give others a good understaning of both devices, you need to have owned and jailbroken the device yourself just likE flashing of cooked ROMs gives you a totally different device.

What can Apple Mac's do that Microsoft can't and viva-versa? Nothing!! They just do it a little differently because they are aiming at different markets.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Hey Mark,

Seems like you wet over to the "Dark Side" for exactly the same reasons as i did.

As for the potentially lethal WM 7 and Nvidia "Tegra" (i assume this is what you meant) platform, lets just say that WM 7 has been delayed till 2010 and No OEM manufacturer has announced any device built on Tegra.

My hunch is that Android will the First platform to use Tegra.

And don't forget Apple Recently bought a company that specializes in , for the lack of a better phrase, "Fine Tuning" the ARM processor; That Tegra is in Fact an ARM-Cortex Processor, and to spice things up, Apple and Nvidia are getting pretty close to one another (abundantly evident at the recent MacBook Releases)
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
Yeah baby!! That's marvellous news as far as I'm concerned.;)

How are you buddy, long time no 'see'? LoL. So the 'PineApple' got you too, eh? haha

Do you still mainly hang out here or have you got some good sites/software to recommend?

Good to hear from you all the same.

If Apple and Nvidia (Tegra) are gonna be jumping in bed together....I sure can't wait to see the end result. :)
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Do you often forward SMS on to people? I suppose I do get a few joke ones that would be fun to pass on :-)

I had heard you can put common dialed numbers direct to Homescreen, but to save that space for my apps, I am happy with the the double tap on Home Button

Please forgive me if you thought I was making fun of your English, I did not mean that at all, just could not get the gist of your message.

I hope I am not also trying to cover anything up, just trying to say some people's vital things are others people's non issues.

Kev
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
Hiya Kev.

You might also want to try QuickGold through Cydia Installer, as this is envoked through pressing the 'Home' button just once whilst at the springboard. A single letter or more if you wish, will bring up every contact, app or website beginning with that or those letters. Brilliant little app with no screen real-estate used whilst idle.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Has almost been an year since i got "pineappled" :)

i was there on hackint0sh, but since there is nothing interesting there atm, i decided to come back here and see how HD was shaping up.

Must Say, I am really disappointed with HTC, it has almost been 3 years since i got my UNI , and the improvement in Video playback has been marginal.

As far as software goes , i'm waiting for http://a-steroids.com/?p=10 and this http://www.iphone.r4m0n.net/ to release, then there is the usual stuff like tunewiki, safari download plugin, winterboard (btw, do checkout the awesome bluebird theme on cydia), tubedownloader.

Recently came to know bout this http://code.google.com/p/iphone-backgrounder/wiki/Documentation, still checking it out though

Your athena still serving you well?? its always nice to bump into great guys like you.

on a completely unrelated note , anyone here wants to beta test this http://blog.dyyno.com/
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
That's a very disappointing conclusion, but looking like one that I'm forced to accept.

My heart tells me to get an iPhone, and to put up with all it's limitation and accept all its flaws.

My head tells me that iPhone, as far as this generation goes, is still not there yet, even if jailbroken. Battary design is the key problem. Absence of office application and navigation software also dealt the fatal blow to it being even an acceptable device, unless I carry an additional winmo device side by side with iPhone.

iPhone is a pretty woman who can't do houseworks, while Touch HD is a plain Jane who can do everything. Who should I pick?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
these might me 'acceptable' workaround for you

http://www.iphonehacks.com/2007/09/edit-word-docs.html

http://www.macworld.com/article/60013/2007/09/glide.html

http://blogs.zoho.com/general/izoho-zoho-for-iphone/

http://lifehacker.com/345976/create-and-edit-docs-from-your-iphone-with-mobile-web-docs

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/tips/2...kes_google_docs_offline_on_your_iphone-2.html
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Hey fallenczar,

Thanks for those links.

The office solutions on iPhone indeed are serious compromises. Still not able to edit all types of documents... some require data connection so can't do it on plane and places with poor signal... Also, can you imaging using a word processor without cut and paste functionality? Man, may be iPhone users would be better off carrying one more winmo device on the other pocket, lol, for navigation, and for situation requiring long battery life.

Let's hope the developers address the application issues sooner. However, I'm not sure if anything can be done about the built in battery limitation which means I may run out of juice in the middle of my golf game.

Apple is supposed to be creative in its design, but how did it end up with a unreplaceable battery???? Disappointing indeed.

With a heavy heart, I think I'll go for a Touch HD, at least as an interim measure while waiting for WM7 or next generation iPhone. Hopefully, the next generation iPhone has replaceable battery, and by then the applications are more more ready. The only thing I can take comfort now is the fact that I've done myself the favour of researching this issue thoroughly and to have made a logical rather than emotional decision in going Touch HD. I'm sure iPhone would be a fantastic phone for many users, if their requirements match the strength of iPhone. But for me, it does not appear to be an acceptable phone, yet. I love the smoothless and responsiveness of Safari, I think the multimedia capabilities are great, but it is so weak in other areas.

Thanks again, and cheers.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
The Unreplaceable battery is an Apple tm. ;)

but if you are willing to pay a premium for getting the battery replaced by apple, then they do send you a replacement phone for the duration of your phones round trip.

As far as battery life is concerned, i think its battery life is phenomenal. After One year, On mild to moderate use, i can get away with recharging my battery on alternate days.

the iPhone was designed to be a Multimedia Device (or to put it in Steve Job's Words - The Best iPod till date) Now that they have become the 2nd largest cellphone seller in the US, having beaten RIM, you can expect them to focus a bit more on 'Corporate Needs'
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
The unreplaceable battery is a dumb design. There is downtime involved. There is a need to transfer your application to the replacement for the duration of the phone round trip (assuming you are allowed to unblock and jailbreak the replacement phone).

The life depends on usage. There are Athena users who charge their device on alternate days, but mine requires 3 fully charged battery per day because I'm such a heavy user. The same should go for iPhone. In my hand, I'm pretty sure it will not last a round of golf. How do I know? Because the creator of one of the iPhone-based golf software said so, and had to come up with tips to last the round. Such trips includes not using it for any other purposes, including phone and dim the brightness to just 25%. Imagine not being contactable during the golf game because of the need to keep the juice for the golfing software! Also, on a golf course, I normally set the brightness to 100% in order to get be able to see clearly under the bright sunlight.

Certainly it is not a device for corporate use yet, but let's hope the next generation iPhone will fix that. I'm eagerly waiting for that.
[Touch HD General] veloaudio:
Going Back!

Wow, talk about major disappointment. I was excited about trying out the HD but after playing with it for a couple of hours its going back tomorrow.

I think using my Xperia before the HD really hurt the HD experience. Build quality is lacking with the HD (Xperia is solid and my iPhone 2G is a brick). I don't know how you operate in WM without a D-pad. For example, deleting emails on the HD was awful. I couldn't select them without opening them up. Very frustrating.

I also think the Xperia screen is more responsive. Coming from the iPhone I wasn't looking to be wowed by the responsiveness of the HD's screen but after getting everything setup (mail, stocks, contacts, etc) and watching part of movie (Bourne Ultimatum, ripped with Handbrake; I'll admit optimized for my iPhone) I was not impressed. Once again I think the Xperia screen was more responsive with the same tasks and movie clip. Shame the Xperia's screen is smaller (touching in the corners was not fun). I also like the panel interface better than TF3D. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a HD bashing post or an I love the Xperia (which is still going back) post.

So here is where I stand now:

1. Touch HD is being returned

2. Xperia is being returned (really nice phone, almost a keeper, but recessed screen?! and RF was't the best)

3. Will pick up an iPhone 3G in the next couple of days

If anyone has any iPhone 2G vs Touch HD vs Xperia questions I'll be happy to answer them.