yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] Kraize:
1. Nah, WinMo is for those who'd rather not go on multimedia and use it more for business. Agreed, the iPhone interface and it's display is better in most things.

2. Never said I like carrying the phone because of the attention. You're assuming here. I like it because of how customizable it is. Tell me one way to change the ****ing buttons on the iPhone homescreen. I hate that, it's too damn simple and when I have 40+ apps, I don't want to scroll page to page. I want to scroll down. Personal preference.

3. MS are dumbasses. It doesn't matter. Xda-Dev is helping them, and I bet you they have a dev team assigned to check the forums because devs here are doing an honest job, better than those at microsoft. The only reason they send legal notices is because they have to. Otherwise people would wonder why they don't.

4. Multimedia includes everything from audio to video and more? Look up the definition if you don't know

5. Granted I don't have a touch hd to listen to music to, but on my touch pro and kaiser, they were fine in playing audio and video. I don't know why you hate it so much?

6. See 5

7. Oh wow. Great. The camera is an additional feature. The main part is the phone, I think everyone is forgetting that. I've never had a music skip in my life. I've been lucky I guess. Never had a problem with audio or video skipping, unless my memory usage was around 90+ %.

8. I'm not a MS kiss-ass. I'm really not. I hate vista with a passion. XP is alright. I only use it because most of the apps need windows. I'd rather use Linux.

9. Apple is robbing half the people that are making apps that cost money. And yeah, devs make apps for the iPhone only because its the new thing nowadays.

10. Okay. Go make a iphone-developers.com then. See how many people actually join to develop. WinMo is PURELY developer made. iPhone is very partially developer made. Without xda-developers.com and developers, WinMo would NEVER be where it is now. I don't care what you say. I'm a WinMo fanboy because it can be customized in almost anyway. I hate apple because I can't change the ****ing homescreen. Apple computers are nice, but I'd never buy one anyways. If the iPhone had a home interface like TF3D and could run some of the apps I run, I'd definitely buy it. But those buttons really piss me off. That's all it is. Where did all the creativity go?

11. Last one. Expandable storage? Office? GPS Navigation? Multitasking without jailbreaking? Doing ANYTHING without jailbreaking? iPhone is CRAP without jailbreaking. and no, jailbreaking is not the equivalent of Hard-SPL.

Final words, STOP ARGUING WITH ME. It's GETTING NOWHERE!

To each his own. If you feel the iPhone is for you, get it. If you feel the touch hd is for you, get it. Stop trying to say which is better. I just wanted to express my opinion. I'm not saying either one is better, I'm saying that the touch hd is better FOR ME. I feel the only real advantage that the iPhone has over the touch hd is the capactive touchscreen. If the Omnia was a WVGA device, it'd be a great iPhone killer.

Again,

TO EACH HIS OWN
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I dont think you should impose your own conditions on how someone should customise the UI to their requirement. I am running Today screen plus TF3D. I can switch betw. them anytime. On my part I wont say anything if you want a equivalent Today screen app on your JB iphone (which if I remember correctly can only be seen when you lock the screen)

Who are you to judge Resco Viewer UI is dated? Based on your own view that Iphone UI is supposed to be the modern one? This is the same as your stand that having a "smooth kinetic scroll" ability makes the the Iphone UI better than WM.

Well, if you jailbreak your Iphone and load it up with JB apps it is also unstable. So how you want to compare? If you are a normal user if you dont hack your WM and just stick with TF3D, then I dont see any stability issue. And I dont see you mentioning the problem with Iphone reception issue.

I just dont see any objectivity in this whole debate. You keep complaining about the part of the WM UI which a typical user seldom encounter due to insulation by TF3D or other shell. If you are an advanced user and you know how to hack your WM or Iphone to kingdom come, then you would not be bothered by a minor irritation such jerkiness/not-so-nice-looking caused by leftover legacy WM UI elements (well, you can replace it e.g. using FingerMenu to replace the WM menu). You would also not be bothered by inability to forward sms or inability to attach files to email as you can fix it by some means.

It is pointless to waste time on this "which-is-better" debate without any fixed datum. It is as ridiculous as running F1 race where you are allow to modify your car anywhere you want.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I didnt say it is useless. ;) . I said it is half-baked with Iphone.

It is not this kind of use I am refering to. A lot my friends (many overseas) has fring/gizmo on their mobile. So we use this to call each other by-passing cellular toll-charges. It is like doing a msn-to-msn voice call on your laptop except your phone is now the laptop. But in order to receive a call you need to leave the app running all the time.

On the S60 you can make VOIP seamless (not sure on WM as I have not fully explore this), i.e. your VOIP is an additional pipe out like the GSM. When you pick a contact from your log/address book/calendar/etc and press green Call key the app can direct it to msn-voice, googletalk etc (i.e. no toll-charge except gprs/wifi/3G) depending on whether your contact is online. If the contact is offline, depending on what you set, it can do skype-out or normal cellular based on which is cheapest.

On the iphone, without background app it kind of tricky/tedious to make it work properly. Either you leave app running (you can't do anything else) or you on-off the app everytime you want to make/receive call (which then you have to time-sync with your caller).
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I hear what you said, but to me, letting the Voice Chat or VOIP phone running all the time in the background does not quite make sense for a few reasons:

- This significantly slows down the device. Most of us would even not allow ActiveSync to run in the background for performance and battery reasons. That's why there are tweaks built into some cooked ROM to kill it.

- Since the cost of calling landline is next to nothing with my service provider (8 cents AUD untimed, anywhere in the world), I always call my friend's landline using VOIP. Majority of them would not be in front of computer to receive my call, that's why I do not attempt to call those numbers.

Therefore, I do not agree that the decision to only start the application when I need to make the VOIP call is "half baked".

Guess we have to agree to disagree on this point.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Once you tick to activate TF3D in the today setting, to my knowledge you can't at the same time easily go to and come back from another desktop applications such as PointUI, Spb mobile shell, etc. At least not without redoing the today settings. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's not imposing any condition. It's merely saying that for most people, using "mutually exlusive" (kind of) software are not normally practical. So, simliarly, if you use ProfiMail, you would not normally also use the stock Mail.

In my case of using another program to effect the attachment is not the same because that program is only used to do attachment. Once that is done, the compsition and checking of mail is still 100% done with the stock mail, therefore they are complementary and not mutually exclusive.

If you prefer scrollbar scrolling over finger flicking to move the thumbnails. If you prefer the clumpsy method of zoomin in and out, go ahead and use these dated interface. For me, I want progress. Let's just agree to disagree.

Yes, stability does suffer a little once we start using third party software from jailbroken sources, since Apple does not have the chance to do quality control, I imagine. However, its level of stability after jailbreaking is still what could only be considered a pipe-dream stability by winmo standard.

As for the iPhone reception program you mention, I believe I know where you're coming from and correct me if my guess is wrong. That reception problem actually has nothing to do with jailbreaking. Instead it is actually caused by some methods of SIM unlocking, for example by using Turbo SIM and some other software methods of unlocking. I personally do not recommend that we SIM unlock using those methods. I had mine unlocked by the Telco itself before I jailbroke, therefore I absolutely do not have reception problem of any kind.

To recap: SIM unlocking and jailbreaking are not one and the same thing.
[Touch HD General] shereib:
For games and basic functions i think Iphone is an amazing

but I like HTC i find it more confutable for me .. in word and excel files ,,

and HTC has Handwriting recognition :) i do not know if apple has that option in iphone
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
If you're only talking word processor and excel capability of the level offered by microsoft, then there are equally good or better solutions (word processing and spreadsheet) already. But if you need the level of sophistication offered by SoftMaker, then there is nothing like that on iPhone yet.

Yes, you can have handwriting recognition as a way of input:

http://www.iphonebuzz.com/iphone-graffiti-offers-palm-style-handwriting-recognition-162216.php Have not tried this myself yet though. Not sure how good it is.

http://gizmodo.com/387188/iphone-20-firmware-will-have-handwriting-recognition-go-to-japan-and-china

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Having both running has been around for some time. :) Just set Today screen as normal with your favorite plugins without TF3D. Then just use a TF3D launch/switch app (you can use TouchFlo Detacher available somewhere here or if you have phoneAlarm the bundled utility paWakeup_manila) to run TF3D as a separate process. You can switch btw Today/TF3D like you switch app. No fiddling required. While we are at this, if you like you can throw in MobileShell/Winterface and run them together with Today and TF3D. If running 4 UI shells at once is too much for you, maybe you want to customise each UI shell to fit different occasion like work, night, weekend and use something like skschema to automatic turn on different UI shell at specified occasion.

Try that with Iphone. :p Hey, don't protest ;) we are talking about power user here. :D

Darn, I still see a lot PDA users using the stylus (eventhough they can use fingers). You made it sound like after Iphone came out then suddenly everything else (like stylus, scrollbar, hard keypad/board) becomes obsolete. I think you need to get a perspective. I'll take a keypad control over a touchscreen control anytime. :p

This is definitely your own self-consoling conjecture. :p I never have crashes with my HD. The only time I soft-reset is when after messing with registry. I know a uncle who bought one (after seeing me have one), he didnt complain his phone crash all the time. And he is a typical user.

It is known fact Iphone has crap reception in low-signal area. Go to howardforum and check out the many threads where people complain about Iphone 3G radio reception. Jailbreak is not required. This function comes built-in. :D
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
My ActiveSync is running all the time. My phone last 2 days with normal use. Running with TF3D+Today and 3G+wifi+BT always on.

You are not getting this. They dont need to be infront of the computer. The phone itself is the computer. We do this msn-voice/googletalk ON THE PHONE on both side. 8 cents/min, you say. I'll be bankrupt if I use cellular as I do a couple of hours of this everyday (more during weekends).

And not forgetting I also do IM/blog/photo upload using the same app.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
So, are you having so many UI shells because everyone of them is so limiting that none of them could do all the task you want? Or just strictly personal preference?

So, lets say in the middle of using TF3D with new menu and you suddenly want to use one of the recently used program, what do you do to switch to a UI shell that does show the recently used programs? How many presses do you need to perform to get there?

You do not think that your set up is too bloated and unnecessary?

I wonder how many of us would believe this. NEVER soft reset. Which also means that it NEVER freeze. That's even better than iPhone if it is true. I find it hard to believe you, sorry. I think you will come back to qualify your statement and tell me it is not just when you edit the registry that you need to soft reset. :D

Do I sound like a winmo newbie to you? Do you sound like someone who does not know what using winmo device is like?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Your "Normal use" is perhaps just leaving the phone on a standby mode to look pretty with all the different UI shell?;)

8 cents per call UNTIMED was what I told you. You can speak for zillion years without stopping for 8 cents. You'll go bankrupt because of this? You're not that poor, are you? :D
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
2)Only one way?? Thats easy, press and hold any icon, when they start to jiggle, arrange them to your liking

with 3.0 coming in june a simple right sweep will take you to finder where you can "SEARCH" the app by using its name

and heres a little bonus for you.

the following links will show you how far you can customize your iphones home page

http://www.ipodtouchfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105566

http://www.saurik.com/id/9

http://www.funkyspacemonkey.com/inav-winterboard-philippines-twist-pinoysoul-download-install

http://customizeapp.com

3)Wow Really,Do you believe what you said??

As for what MS can do, they can grant a license to xda-developers to make the work done here legal.

4,5,6&7) Because its been marketed as a PREMIUM "MULTIMEDIA" device and yet it CANNOT do such a simple task as playback audio properly though the 3.5mm jack

And you only have to ask people here about HDs Camera quality

9)Apple is robbing developers and yet developers are making applications for the iphone.

Why do you think its like that?? is it because the developers are idiots??

it is because the developers see this as an opportunity to tap an market that they were never able to tap into, it is because the iphone has left WM behind in just 2 years after its introduction in total number of sales.

BTW, who is robbing the developers, $99 one time reg. fee for reg with apple iphone developers prog. with unlimited application submission or $99 YEARLY for MS marketplace with only 5 Applications??

10)Seriously how can you say that,

27000 plus application in the appstore while what, 15 application on the iphone that are made by apple, and not to forget the jailbreaking community with its applications, and yet you believe that apple platform is only "Partially" developer made.

and as far as iphone-developers.com theres already a http://www.iphonedevsdk.com/ with 11k+ registered members.

11)Hard-SPL is not equal to JB and i agree to that, JB is far less dangerous than HSPL can ever be, JB is actually equivalent to rooting that is being done on the Android platform.

as far as all the prog you have mentioned i think i should remind you that the sdk is ONLY 1 year old and it takes time to write, port and test a product specially if you are a well known name like tomtom. Having said that, you will find all these apps in the app store by june end.

However there are many things on the iphone platform that you will not find in WM.

Drivers for the graphic chip for one.

My only reason to post was to make YOU realize that WM is not the "Perfect OS" and Touch HD is not the "Perfect Device" that you were making out to be.

P.S QuickOffice is now available for the iPhone http://www.quickoffice.com/
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
I notice something here that when it comes to iphone future everything looks bright but when people talk about winmo future everything is standing still. why is that? for me I bought HD because I wanted to have a one device for phone and gps. I used to have n95 and a separate tomtom one now i only have the hd. its a great advantage for me as i bring my phone with me all the time and i also have a gps with it. I think as the referee i have to declare a draw here as both phones are great it just depends on personal preference. To be fair, I think both phones are going to be very good in the future for im sure both os will improve overtime.
[Touch HD General] astromark:
This is an increasingly unfortunate occurrance. My Tytn II never - as far as I can recall - crashed, nor needed regular rebooting to work properly. It was delightfully stable.

My ipods - an 80gig 3G and a nano - crash all the bloody time. Especially the 3G. It needs a reset virtually every time I use it. I kid you not.

So until a couple of weeks back I laughed at stories about WinMo being worse than Apple products for stability.

But my new HD needs rebooting on a daily basis. Yes, it's got a Dutty ROM on but it's not really any worse than it was with the stock rom on it. Mind you, I only reboot because it slows down, not really because it fails. The ipods just fail. So the HD is set to auto-reset at 6am each day and it's fine.

I can't comment on iphone/ipod touch but I doubt they're flawless.

These devices are really trying to do too much (or we're expecting too much of them) in my opinion.

Quite why the HD is like this when the Tytn was fine is beyond me; I've had ipaqs for years and they've been fine too. The Pocket PC platform is fairly stable.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Fallenczar,

Lots of extremely useful information from your post. Thanks for the info on QuickOffice. I can knock this off as one of the last reasons to hang on to winmo device now, although I have also found spreadsheet program that can create and edit excel documents somewhere else. Just waiting for TomTom class navigational software to be available to complete the transition. I hope Tom Tom, iGO, Copilot, Navigon, MapKing, Garmin will come on board in the near future.

On Cyder there are many many customization programs, and I was thinking of doing a printscreen on those to show people that the iPhone desktop could be heavily customised too. I think just too many winmo users are under the wrong impression that they must live with the standard look and feel. Your links are excellent, and I think that is sufficient to show how fancy these customization could become.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
There has been a lot of improvement since the early days of WM5. WM6.1 now is relatively more stable than what it used to be, but far from being crash proof. It is not uncommon for me to open up the battery cover more than 10 times per day using HD. Sometimes, it runs without the need to soft reset for days, sometimes, it just keep crashing. It is hard to nail down the cause. Sometimes it is the Album freezing up. Sometimes it is not completely frozen but just responding very very slow. Sometimes when I click the start (top left corner), that area turns white but nothing happens until 15 seconds later. The only way to deal with such situation was to soft reset it.

iPhone is not completely free of freezes but I find it to be extremely infrequent, despite having jailbroken it. Although compared to before it was jailbroken there are probably more incidents of program not starting due to insufficient memory. In such situation, I use a memory management program to free up the memory and everything becomes smooth again once that's done. The instability in this case normally does not require a reboot. The one that gives me most problem is the Category program, which seems to terminate by itself while trying to add or remove program from a folder. The good thing is that the developer has modified the program to ensure that when that happens, by simply restarting the program (no reset required), we can continue using it without losing any work. That single program gives me the most annoyance. Next on the list of unstable program for me was Cydia itself, which also terminates itself when memory is low. Fortunately, none of these freezes me out to force a reboot. I can remember no more than 5 reboots since I had my iPhone. Being so used to multiple reboots per day in the winmo environment, it was really refreshing.

Edit: Yesterday I upgraded my HD's ROM to Dutty 2.6. I've already done more than 10 forced soft resets and just did one again just now. This time, it is because when I press the top left corner to start menu, nothing happens. When I go to file explorer, it displays photo for the first file, and after that no matter which other files I touch, the device does not respond.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Steve, with the kind of usage you have, you should really have a look at

http://www.mophie.com/products/juice-pack-air

http://www.mophie.com/products/juice-pack-iphone-3g
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
spvc500,

I agree with almost everything you said here. Just want to add a few more points to that:

1) There seems to be big difference between winmo third party software and iPhone software in terms of pricing. I personally find it so much more easire to just buy buy and buy the software from the Applestore because the pricing is so reasonable. It simply isn't worthwhile for many people to try to crack these software anymore, at least in my opinion. This I think is the right marketing strategy. You sell more at the end of the day. Just look at how expensive some of the winmo software are. SoftMaker is a good example. Even after 50% discount it is still so expensive. So people are motivated to warez it.

2) Even if microsoft and HTC work together to upsex the UI shell, we're still calling up applications that looks ugly. The mail, calendar, office, and other microsoft program must be redesigned in addition to revamping the OS. The right track is to do what Resco is doing, for example with the most current Contact Manager software (which looks exactly like iPhone type of software). That would have to happen across all the other application software in order to raise their appeal. Resco File Explorer is on the right track too, so is the Registry Editor. But there are still too many software out there with dated interface. Resco Picture Viewer is a good example.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I'm a little reluctant to increase the dimension generally, but will think about this. Thanks for the information.

On the other hand, it will still be a lot smaller than my Athena, which I had no complain when come to weight and size.

I hope the next generation iPhone has removable battery.
[Touch HD General] bobdude5:
Iphone Camera vs Touch hd Camera

although the touch hd's camera has a much higher resolution then the iphone camera, the lighting on the iphone is MUCCCCCHHHH better than the hd..i took two pictures at night..one with the iphone and one with the touch hd of the same thing..i could not see anything with HD but with the iphone everything was visible...is there any fix for the touch hd camera to improve its lighting?..i went through all the lighting modes and turned the brightness on high but it didnt chagne anytthing