yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
Take your pick of sources for outselling Blackberry. I don't believe there is any statistics involved. It was based upon the latest quarterly sales figure.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...iphone+outsells+blackberry+&btnG=Search&meta=

This is less certain but there are also numerous sources about it. Apple is one of the most followed companies in the tech industry and people sort through garbage to get info. Apple can't make any quantity of anything with out people knowing. If it isn't 40 million it is a huge amount.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2008/tc20080821_199140.htm

You never answered if HD improves their firmware and adds functionality. So I am guessing there probably isn't much to talk about there. Well the HD be essentially the same phone in a years time software wise?

You don't mention any specific game or give me any suggestions of what to look for or what to expect. I am aware it isn't a console. The iPhone is actually considered competition for the PSP now.

Does it occur to you that I am a newbie and thus far nobody is really giving me any pointers or hints? For instance if you just bought your HD what sort of things that are useful and free would you be loading onto it? what sort of things would you be doing to it?

You should be able to tell that I don't care which phone is better as earlier in this thread i was trying to answer some of Steve's questions as simply as I could. In the end it was some of the things that I told him that made him conclude the HD was more up his street.

Now I am just asking what I consider fairly basic questions myself. If I can't ask such things in a forum for fans of the device where can I ask them? What were people saying about Apple fan boys being overly sensitive? Pot, meet kettle.
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
Thanks Steve,

Now we are getting somewhere. The last post was directed at drzoid of course.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
We don't do much bush walking her ein the UK mate :-)))

Kev
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
What do these games typically cost?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Ok, but the internet, great as it can be, is now full of people reporting other people's reports.

I guess, in the end I can only speak about a very small part of a very small town here in the UK, where, honestly, reception on 3G 2.1 fw is as good as any WM I have here, and the same as a Nokia E65, and N95 8GB

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Are you also denying there is a problem?

If so, what does it make me? A liar? I wasn't even aware of this issue on the day when I went to buy iphone. I only checked out the report after having personally seen the problem with my own eyes. "network lost", or something like that was the pop up message, and safari wasn't able to display the web page.

Does that also make Ryaniuk a liar? All those reports all over the world, each giving problems to the Telco selling iphones were also fictitious report? Come on, give me a break.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Mistaken? The victim of a random glitch during the five minutes with which you used an iphone? Is that such an egregious claim to make, when people who actually own and use these phones on a daily basis are disagreeing with you?

Was I a liar when I corrected your impression of the iPhone keyboard, and the "stream" of characters that resulted from you holding down a key? Did I accuse you of being a liar about that? Should I have?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Then why did the shop assistant said he's seen this before a number of times and already know how to fix it?

Is Ryaniuk any less qualified to verify this than you?
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
He "knew how to fix it" by resetting it if I remember correctly, what an expert that makes him. "Is the [insert model name] doing something unexpected sir? Ah yes, you just need to reboot it... can I wrap it up for you now?"

Why does my phone work, Steve? And if mine is that rarest of working iphones in a sea of faulty devices, why do the millions of other people put up with them?

PS - it just occured to me - I've switched my iPhone off once in the four weeks I've owned it. It's never rebooted. My signal must be long gone, right?
[Touch HD General] rovex:
With regard to sales figures i can see Apple very rapidly saturating its own market, Android will catch and pass it very soon. Like the iMac, very popular initially, but never really got a big hold on the market.

Its good to see Symbian still way out in front, its much more of an advanced phone OS than a PDA OS. This is Apples trouble. The iPhone OS has the complexity of a PDA OS, but is less capable (or at least less well utilised) than symbian. It doesnt seem to know what it is.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
But what I find annoying is the way some people here think that if iPhone is "well known" for having poor cell signal, then my one or other people's MUST have poor signal?

There are people here saying the HD has great signal. Good, I for one one would not dream to suggest that they are somehow wrong, or go search for threads (which could be started by anyone, anytime) saying the HD has crap reception.

I just would not do that, you know, you should all remember that once iPhone gets just one report from one user, it gets copied all over the internet.

Go ask 10 people in your office what do you think of the iPhone. You will get 9 or 20 answers, different answers sure, now go ask them what do you think of the HTC Touch HD, and listen out for those 9 or 10 "what the hell is that".

iPhone is news, big news, you may hate that (god knows why), but that is the way it is.

Let me just state again, in my UK O2 space here, where ALL phones struggle to get a strong signal, my 3G iphone got as good or better signal than the HD did, or the Trinity does, or the N95 8GB also does.

Even when one follows all the links from eaglesteve, one almost always finds ATT as the carrier. Am I right in thinking 3G in the US is poor?

Unlike others, I do not dispute Ryanuk comments about cell signal, but think about this...

Lets assume the iPhone has the worst signal of a phone ever. It now outsells the RAZR brand. You haters had better hope they never sort out this crap signal stuff :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Yep, that explains why it's now the number two mobile OS - you really nailed it there.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Keep believing, fanboy. You're not going to convince anyone of us by your stubborn denial of those reports everywhere on the world.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
This sounds like its getting a bit heated....

Look, the facts are these:

Steve tried the phone and the signal dropped out. That made him investigate more and he found a lot of reports of poor signal on the iPhone.

Boinng - Your phone does not appear to have signal problems

Ryan - Your phone does appear to have signal problems

Some people aren't that bothered about the multimedia experience.

Some people are bothered about battery life, signal, office applications.

The iPhone is not for me as I've spelled out several times in this thread. In the same vein, it's not for everyone.

I'm sorry if I upset apple fanboys here, but the HD does what I want it to way better than the iPhone.

The reverse will be true for those with differing needs.

End of
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Multitasking not to forget.

Again I believe you know what one says about statistics.

Again, Apple is a master in mobilising its community aka fanboys who in turn are masters in trying to silence any critics.

Am I an HTC employee? How shall I know? Please ask realistic questions.

But if you follow this forum more closely you should see that at least the third-party support for HTC is extraordinary. Even years old phones still get updates.

You didnt ask for any specific game. Further I am not using a phone to play so what should I say here.

By whom? I very much doubt this.

I'd use it for all kind of network access (from HTTP to SSH).

Of course you can ask questions, but they would need to be specific. In terms of games I am sorry but I cant help here.

Actually, I am not even a fanboy of anything. The Touch HD is just simply a phone which really convinces me even though I realise its shortcomings as well. I recently saw the new Asus P565 which looks in certain points even better. I even considered Apple's phone but had to dismiss it for the mentioned lacking features.

No, but if there are hundreds or maybe thousands of complaints about the signal I wouldnt call it random glitch anymore.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Steve, I have owned so many phones, I can not recall them all, honestly.

They ALL need a reboot from time to time.

I used to have an XDA, that would lose ALL signal bars, BUT calls and data worked fine, it was a signal meter fault.

Whatever else we say, a few mins in a shop with a "shop assistant" (not always known for spouting facts!) simply is not enough.

Your last comment is interesting, and I agree 100% with it. Let me re write it for you, tell me what you think :-)

Just because some users have signal problems with say iPhone, does not mean other users have the same problem.

Kev
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
My phone and my roommates phone. High 3G coverage area Hd works full bars on either SIM.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
It becomes a problem when people take phone like a religion and feel that their honor is at stake when others do not also worship it the same way as they do. They do not rest until you lie to them that you also find iphone to be the only phone that the world must inherit.
[Touch HD General] rovex:
Its number 2 because of Apples marketing. They could stick the inner workings of a Nokia 3210 in a pretty box and sell it for £200, loads of Mac fans would still buy it. (Isnt that what the macbook air is basically?).

Apple products are basically all about superficiality, no depth, just something to show off with, to those who know no better. Its why Apple fans get so uptight when everyone else responds with a big... MEH!
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
:D

so true
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Hrmm, this is a £550 to £600 device. It has hardly any buit in memory, so add £40 for that.

When you think iPhone is now £399 for a 16GB device, and this INCLUDES unlimited 3G/Edge data and wi-fi at 9500 UK hotspots for a FULL YEAR.

Can you list one unreasonable claim in this thread keeping in mind the above?

Kev
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Only, once again you're confusing yourself - it's not me that has to believe anything, I have an iPhone on the desk in front of me, I can talk in cold hard fact. It's you that has to believe me to be wrong, based on your five minutes in a shop, and a bunch of old articles about previous firmwares (and AT&T network probs). Oh, and that Touch HD you just spent all that money on.

You want to believe I'm a fanboy too. Go ahead. Just don't go digging around some of my older posts, will you - http://xdaforums.com/search.php?searchid=18120495
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Apple's phone isnt cheaper, sometimes even more expensive. And with a replaceable storage you can even exceed the 16 GB by much. Admittedly you have to "invest" EUR 30 for a 16 GB card.

Where do you have those numbers from? Actually you can get it for free but have to take plan for at least 18 months at £75 each making it £1350 (EUR 1602 or USD 2017). Not quite cheap.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Which was a wise decision! The probably best and most versatile smartphone on the market at the moment.

The P565 might be even better, but if you wait forever you will never have one.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Where do these figures come from, I have looked hard for these, and find so many conflicting reports, I am not sure which ones to believe.

However, on a general point, how many different WinMo phones are there on sale?

Can we compare to a one model (until recently vastly expensive) range, and come up with anything meaningfull?

Kev
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
There comes a point in time where every thread outlives it's usefulness and this one has reached that for me. I am bowing out now.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
I too have massive respect for the devs here, and software houses like SPB, without both of those I would have dumped WM YEARS ago.

Here is a link to a superb thread about developing for WinMo and iPhone.....

http://tinyurl.com/5sy8te

Kev
[Touch HD General] rovex:
Looks like the same article i saw. As i said before Apples market is almost at saturation, it will rapidly slow down.

I dont think winmo will reach 40% of the market, Symbian is too strong. You can buy a symbian without realising it is a smartphone, you cant really do that with winmo, although some phones just about pull it of.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Steve, with the keyboard, if you owned an iPhone, you really would find it blows away ANYTHING on WM, and yes, I have tried em all over the years.

Oh, and the iPhone keyboard ALWAYS pops up when required, how many times do the replacment WM ones fail to pop up, or worse, pop up the built in one instead.

Cut n Paste as you know is available via jailbreak.

You really have to stop quoting cell signal like that, it is disingenious.

Kev
[Touch HD General] BigBoi:
Wow, long time not seen a discussion like that with no point and either party don't realizing it. I just bought an iPhone and will receive it within the next days. But reading all this, I'm feeling a little ache in my stomache. I must admit that WM people are arguing more reasonable but on the other hand they don't have something to defend. The iPhone is the best multimedia device out there and the HD or the other WM phones in that league are best devices for professional use. Right now there is no device to really combine both worlds. So decide what you want and go get your device. If you want the best of both worlds go get both. I will give the iPhone a try and when I don't like it I will sell it for a HD. What about all this ongoing discussion? There's no point to reach. It is as it is.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Serious question, can you give an example?

Do you include me, if so give an example of one of my denials.

i am not trolling, I really don't wanna be an Apple spokeman, and I am desparate to buy something better than my iPhone, I need my gadget fix.......

Kev
[Touch HD General] Insaneboy:
Guys, i'd like to take this opportunity to illustrate a point.

That's what's been happening for the past 31 pages. :p
[Touch HD General] BigBoi:
Got my point. Sometimes a picture says more than 31 pages of words. ^^
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
YOU MUST PAY WHAT HTC SAY FOR HD

NO YOU CAN ACTIVATE WITHOUT ITUNES (Look for iLiberty, QuickPwn, and lots more)

OH, ALL LIMITATIONS HUH, CAN'T THINK OF ANY REAL ONES HUH?

NO, YOU CAN USE ANY SIM (Look for RebelSim)

4 out of 4 wrong, you must try harder dude :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Already is a replaceable battery :-)

OK, I know what you mean :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
You wanted an example of fanboyism

YOU MUST PAY WHAT APPLE SAY in terms of plans

YOU MUST ACTIVATE AND SYNC VIA ITUNES lets not consider illegal options

YOU MUST ACCEPT ALL LIMITATIONS soon 32 pages

YOU MUST BE ON O2 (IN THE UK) again no illegal options
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Ha, I love a good laugh.

I am 47, I know 3 people with an iPhone and 2 more who will get one this year, and none is under 30.

As for your last line, yes, I agree, its FAR easier to get a tiny stylus out and click on a tiny drop down box in WM than use an iPhone on a bus.......come on, this is incredibly poor attempt......

Kev
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
Just a couple of thoughts.......

The Winmo stuff basically evolved out of pocket pc.

So one could say that Winmo is a PDA that can make phonecalls....

The iPhone evolved out of the iPod

So one could say the iphone is an MP3 player (oops, sorry whatever the proprietary apple format is these days ;-) ) that can make phonecalls

Winmo is a better PDA platform than iPhone

iPhone is a better media platform than Winmo

Whilst I get all the stuff you can do with a jailbroken phone, can I just check my understanding here....

If you get a firmware update from apple, you lose all of the jailbroken features until someone works out how to jailbreak it again?

Still doesn't have editable office apps which is the main thrust for me I'm afraid.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
As the thread starter here, I would love it if we just kept it relevant to this thread.

I don't deny there are Fanboys for all sorts of products, and Apple is one, but if none of them are posting here, how does that move the disscussion on?

I want people to remember one thing, I WANTED the HD to be better than the iPhone, am am annoyed it was not.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Well, maybe they should have done more research.

I know you can not do this, but I bet if you gave all of those an HD for a week, most would stick with the iPhone.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Who are you to say they are mad?

Why would YOU be SAD that someone might buy something on looks alone? I simply don't understand.

Maybe they just trust Apple, and Sony in those cases.

They can not do that with HTC or WM 6 because they have not heard of them.

Kev
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Absolutely.

You could say this, but both platforms can be improved towards each other's functionality.

Yes, I even think to remember you would have to undo it before upgrading as you might otherwise risk to ruin it completely.

Of course.

And what exactly do you have to criticise?
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Maybe not all of them would keep the HD but those would be still disappointed by Apple's phone.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Hmmmm, this thread has got interesting.

I AM A WIN MO USER AND I ADMIT IT HAS FAULTS AND COULD BE BETTER.

HTC DO NOT OFFER ANY SUPPORT TO ME AFTER MY DEVICE HAS BEEN DELIVERED.

MY HD HAS SOME QUERKS THAT I HOPE WILL SOON BE IRONED OUT BY SOMEONE.

Now apple fan boys, i've admitted my device has faults i think its about time you did aswell?

This thread is going round in full circles and getting stupid.

This is apples second try at a phone!! Its not going to be perfect, give it a year or so then you might see something special.

EVERYONE here has admitted the iphone is sleek has a great UI. We aren't haters, we're realistic, the iphone has some shortcomings!

The fact that apple offer all this after support is a double edged sword. That is also what keeps you tied to them. The choice is simple, be a caged bird with the iphone or be free with any number of Wm devices of which currently HD is no 1.

Looking forward to your usual response of dening it all Kev.....
[Touch HD General] trentend:
Not a problem.

https://google-connector.forge.funambol.org/
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Good question. Outline what you were unhappy about the HD Kev??
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Ok, there is gpSPhone for GBA

Then, there is NES.app http://www.zdziarski.com/projects/nesapp/

DosBox is in dev for the iPhone

And yep, a PS1 emulator is also in dev?

Did you have any more points?

Kev
[Touch HD General] leoni1980:
I understand your point. I WANTED my T-Mobile G1 upgrade to be better than my iPhone 3G - I kept it for a week before deciding there were too many deficiencies at the moment, but what it DID teach me is that capacitive touch screens are essential for me now. I love the screen on the iPhone and I loved the screen on the G1. Unfortunately Windows Mobile cannot use capacitive screens which is very unfortunate when many of its devices have the word 'touch' prevalent in their title. For pure touching there is little argument that capacitive screens are smoother to use than resistive, and a hell of a lot brighter and better in sunlight too.

I don't wish to go down the Apple fanboy route - I know what I want, and the iPhone isn't everything, HOWEVER it is the best for me at the moment because it offers easy, reliable browsing, good speaker performance and a very multimedia-centric experience.

The camera on the iPhone is of little practical interest to me, however it outshines the Touch Diamond and my T-Mobile G1 (which had a pathetic camera.) Both of these devices sported higher megapixel autofocus cmos sensors but unfortunately their lenses seem to have been made from poo.

I suspect (and I do this only from my VERY expansive back-catalogue of HTC devices ad their predictably bad cameras) that the 5mp HD camera will be a marginal if un-noticeable improvement on the Diamond's camera.

Finally I resent the poor video performance of HTC devices. If my four year old Dell Axim X50v had a phone and 3G radio built into it I'd probably still be using it today, and it would definitely outshine any HTC devices...maybe even the iPhone.

In the next six months I will definitely be replacing my iPhone 3G. It will more than likely be with an Android or Windows Mobile device and having seen the young Android OS first hand, and the current flock of WinMo devices, I'm starting to think there will be only one winner....

Microsoft...you've f**ked up big time.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
This is not correct at all

http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389

Browsing is even better on the HD.

And can you explain why?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Calm down.

I am simply denying it has happened to me on Firmware 2.1 in my home town or where I use it.

I know this sounds selfish, but I can not care less what happens to other people.

I am NOT calling you a liar, I am not a coward, if I thought you were lying, I would come out and say it.

As you will see in another reply, I have seen similar to the thing you saw, and there might be another answer.

To be honest, from here it is looking like you are so annoyed you can not buy an iPhone, you are looking for reasons to be a hater...please don't go that way, it would be a shame.

I will happily apologise here if you or anyone else considers I have called you a liar.

Fair?

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Splutter.....

What on earth are you basing this on FFS.

G1 is truly horrible, makes the HD look superb.

Oh, at the T Mobile launch day event, none of the G1 units could be used, since the updates had not come through........read about that anywhere?

No, bet you ain't, imagine the amount of fuss if the iPhone suffered from that.

Listen, I hope Android does very well, but your above statement is simply showing how out of touch you are.

Kev
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Mate you are if not a liar a very rude person!!!!

Because someone doesn't want an iphone and tells you the reason why, it doesn't mean he can't get one.

I don't want an iphone but I can get one and indeed have had one, i returned it, as although a very nice phone and an ok MP3 player it lacked in many key areas.

Surely as the thread starter you want to keep it objective and not throw personal insults about.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Don't knock it, without companies like Apple, you would get no inovation at all.

If it were not for iPhone, you would not even be able to buy an HD, they simply would not have made it.

Kev
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
So which innovation did Apple bring?

The HD is just the logical successor of all previous phones of HTC - not thanks to Apple. The Wizard was available two years before Apple stole the idea from LG ;).

And we are still waiting to know what you have to criticise about the HD.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
hmm, don't think it was quite meant like that, and I don't think Kev read it like that.

I think Steve (a bit like myself) would like an iPhone for its media capability, but doesn't want get one as he needs it to do other things. It's not he can't get one financially.

Steve is disappointed (as am I) that the iPhoen won't do everything he wants.

He has spelt out what it can't do and I think has been a bit bashed for saying it having his arguments dismissed, in my opinion unreasonably.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Don't worry, when people start to lose an argument, it either gets personal, or goes general, hence the "fanboy" comments, which seem to be designed to upset us somehow.

For me, to be called an anything "boy" at my age is a compliment :-)

Kev