yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Since I'm able to zoom in to what appears to be full size, I can only assume that yes, they do. There's no sign that they're reduced at all in quality.

Well hardly - a PSP is a big bulky piece of additional hardware and significant extra cost, I've no interest in it whatsoever. Surely by that same logic you should eschew your "5MP" Touch HD for a simpler phone and a separate camera? Why buy a big screen phone when you could carry a separate PMP for video?

No, not in my experience of WM, Symbian, and the iPhone.
[Touch HD General] Moandal:
My understanding is that if I want to make a ringtone out of a song in my music collection, I have to pay to do so on the iPhone. Is that true? If so it's game, set and match to the HD. If not, thank you for correcting me.
[Touch HD General] Fallen Spartan:
I think this thread will just continue to grow as no matter what one person says, there will be a counter from the other. Each phone has pros & cons and the end result will be down to the individual.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Not true - unless the file is DRM'd you can easily turn it into a ringtone for free using only iTunes.
[Touch HD General] Looking Glass:
My two cents to this endless thread:

If your current (phone/pda) knowledge makes you ASK that question, obviously, no matter some 20 pages of answers, YOU DO NOT NEED A TOUCH HD!!!

Nor you probably will for the life of your next phone.

;-)
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
And Windows Phone aka WinMo aka PocketPc is for those who suck up to MicroSoft ???

So iPhone is a "show-off" but not enough to get you attention in a crowd, however WinMo phones are not "show-offs" but still manage to grab attention (??How, Black Magic, Voodoo; Note to self - find out how WinMo Phones do that and use the same with the ladies)

And you like carrying these phones because they get you attention, doesn't that make you an attention*****???

Is that why MS and HTC had xda-developers remove all the roms from the ftp 2-3 years ago, or why MS was sending C&D order and forcing removal of WinMo 6.5 Roms.

Remind Me Please, Does Multimedia also include Audio Playback at any chance ??

Listen to Music - you must be kidding me.

Yippe, i have the ultimate device, now only if it had drivers for the graphic accelerator, the music wouldn't skip and st...ru...tt..er and the camera wasn't as slow as it is.

Vista FTW!!!

so you mean to say that the iPhone platform doesn't have developers, 27 thousand odd apps in the app store were made by Apple and are being released under false names??

Microsoft gave you something which many would say is a "pile of turd" with absolutely no support, you were forced to "improve" the "Base".

Don't Believe me, this is what is written on xda-developers homepage

"Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum."

we'll have a iphone-developers.com then.
[Touch HD General] Jezwick:
Some shots of potentially the iPhone 4G

:nice:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Is this real? To my knowledge there there is no third generation (the current iPhone 3G is second generation) iPhone yet. Is this just a mockup by some random person?
[Touch HD General] Jezwick:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/03/31/iphone_4g_pictures/

its dated yesterday so I guess its not an Aprils fool, though it may just be a mock up !!!
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Fine. OK. (not conceding without a but ;) ) Thumbnail view is slow but scrolling photo one by one is good/acceptable. And you get to see recent photos on TF3d itself.

I have never disputes that Iphone gives you a more pleasurable experience (plus nice eye-candy). But to so adamantly imply that WM UI is in the unusable territory is misguided to say the least.

WM may not look nice but at least it lets me get the job done (you may add with irritation). But it is heck a lot better than something that looks good but can't get the job done (case in point , file attachment in email).

Well, all I can say by just basing on your narrow statement above, you have no idea what multi-tasking is really about.

OK. Maybe crippled is too harsh a word. Would "functional challenged" be more palatable to you?. However, it doesnt lessen the impact since Iphone has no ability to attach any kind of files or save your attachment for reuse when ALL others have. You can put it anyway you want but the fact remains (i.e no lie). Yeah, it may not affect you but who are you to say for the rest of us?

I am more refering to the inability to move stuff in/out of you phone without Itunes or the non-support of BT-sync.

These are some of many factors. Why are these factors less important than scrolling speed/ui look and feel which you made out to be the over-riding factor in making Iphone the best on this planet? Isnt it too skin-deep?

What is wrong with continuity in UI look and feel? Does it have to be so superficial that something is good only if it looks good?

I dont mind if the app opens up 0.5-1 sec slower than Iphone. More important to me is the app covers more ground (i.e. complete spectrum of capability). And like I said before, 6.5 ROM may not be fully optimise now.

btw: you didnt read that Iphone v3 testers said that it is laggy and buggy? I certainly would'nt be so foolish to say that Iphone 3.0 is doomed at this moment.

Really. That strange. You didnt read any of those opening sms lag in Iphone v2.

Multi-tasking is an integral part of a modern OS. Symbian has it for the 16 years and WM for the last 10 years. You wont die without it but with it you can do much more. What I am saying is the total package is more important to me at least.

Really? I can't believe what you are saying. You most probably have not encounter any long document in your life. Better solution? How? By flipping your thumb over-and-over-and-over just to get to an item.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I agree with you on the cheaper part only. :)

Let's put it this way. I think I have a higher ground when defending WM (in this case Touch HD) based on a rational functionality comparison.

From logic. At this moment I know for certain that GPS tbt is not possible

Your teacher will be disappointed :lol: (i.e. read the question before asking)

==> 30 emails - keep 5.

I would not say WM OS is friendlier because of this. But I would also not say Iphone UI beats the crap out of WM in user friendliness inspite of this.

And this is one of many instances where WM is easier to use. On the flip side, I would say the same about Iphone.

btw: I didnt call Iphone email client crippled because of this :p

Why bother contracting a known fact?

Remember if you use this escape clause, then I can just dismiss all your points by saying "it does not affect me / i dont need it".
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
It is not easy to conceed my friend. It takes a very big man to do that.;)

I did not say WM is unuseable. I said iPhone is a lot more useable, that's all. File attachment in email? Just told you that it can be done. Not within the mail, but starting with application such as Finder (think of it as the Resco File explorer equivalent) that lets you navigate and view all files including the hidden files, and once the file is found, click the email file function.

Educate me, go ahead.

Already addressed your misconception regarding inability to attach files.

Yes, I conceed it is more difficult to send files to and from the device directly. There is an iBluetooth but it is not stable and bug free enough. I also said that this is something that I do only very occassionally so I had gone in with my eyes open. Of course, this problem may be history in a couple of months time, in firmware 3.0.

The speed, stability, smoothness etc are emphasised by me because it is the thing that affects the user every seconds of use, whereas stuffs like bluetooth transfer affects users like myself only once in a very blue moon.

Continuity in having poor response time, jerkiness, etc is very wrong my friend.

Wow, you're talking about a problem that happen so long ago still. Why don't you talk about the problems in WM5?

If it is such a hugh and gigantic document, do you want to view it on your small screen phone? Do you even allow it to be downloaded given the high cost of HSDPA data plan for most people? Or would you wait till you get to a desktop to view it?

Don't know about you, but I sure know what I would do.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I have already shown you in many areas that it is less useable like email, moving betw. apps, email (remember tap tap tap tap to just go to another inbox :p), scrolling, multi-item selection etc. Do I also need to go over things like copy-paste, sms forwarding etc etc. I am getting tired of this. Why dont you just give us some examples where Iphone is a LOT more useable.

Finder - another jb app? :p So you need to jump thru hoops to just get the basic things working. All I can say you are not in your right mind when you say Iphone is the greatest of all.

Speak for yourself. :p I am syncing my pims using bt everyday.

It is better than speculating about something that has not happened? Have you use a released phone with a final WM6.5? No you havent. :p

It doesnt have to be gigantic? It can be a long list. :p
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Remember you are the one that said the Iphone version has functions which the WM dont? And it came out that WM version has the same capability except that you have to pay more. So dont blame me. :p . You are the one who confuse the issue.

I have to remind you that you are the one that took the strong position that Iphone apps have exceeded WM in every aspects except GPS. Maybe it is a good time I should ask now, what did you base this on? Research or your personal preferences?

Either you dont get junk mails or you are happily reading all the junks. ;)

By your loose definition of equality, we can also extend to the entire UI. Both Iphone UI/WM are easy enough (they have insignificant minor differences but usability is the same) We can end this debate then. :lol:

Emulating your way ;), I can go and get a ProfiMail app which allows me to render this. So where do we want to stop? To be objective it must be apple-to-apple. On one hand, you load up your iphone with apps (incl. jb) and you say it is better compare to stock WM one.

It can be done sure with workaround/app/jb. I can also replace all the major components in WM with shell, 3rd app, hacks, custom ROM etc to the point that I dont even have to see any of the WM default UI. Well, I heard someone said you can even flash THD with Android. What does that prove?

So if I need to check my fact, then you also need to check your premise/assertions as well. :p
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
No, you've failed to show your case, I'm afraid.

a) I had shown you the big difference in display between the stock email client in iPhone versus HD's instead. I had disproved your assertion that only photo could be attached.

Our comparison had been between the stock email clients. If you bring in ProfiMail, you lose the ability to go from one inbox to another with one-swipe, among other things. You lose the integration with TF3D. So, make up your mind which is the one you're using.

b) As for moving between application. You had shown nothing, other than saying that you could launch the most recently used application. I had shown you that iPhone could do it better in that regards, and I had shown you that the more recent wm ROM no longer have this capability.

c) As for smooth scrolling of photo thumbnails, you had shown nothing again. You came up with a lame S2V which was really pathetic.

d) As for multi-selection, you said initially that it cannot be done in iPhone. You were wrong. Again. You case collapsed.

As for SMS message forwarding, I can demonstrate to you that my iPhone could do it today, if you're still game.

Cut and copy. Yes, it is limited in iPhone but this will soon be addressed.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I said that many third party applications in iPhone are now functinoally richer than their counterpart in winmo. Who is confusing the issue?

I do get junk mail, but not in the 30 to 5 ratio like you.:D Also, by selectively touching everyone that I need to delete is good enough for me.

The printscreen that I had was from the stock email client. Good try.

Do you have anything against jailbreaking? I see nothing wrong with it. It's just like HardSPL and flashing a cooked ROM.

I

I don't see anything wrong with using them if necessary.

So, you only want me to show you what the stock email client could do in terms of rendering, and I had. So, which stock email client is better now?:D
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
You had to resort to using a 3rd party jb app. In the same light, I also have disproved your assertion that WM cannot do smooth kinetic scrolling. Just pick up any of the new WM app/shell and you can see it can.

So your point being? Iphone can't do swipe to open inbox either. So at least it is equal in this respect when using Profilmail. But if we are comparing the stock email client, Iphone cannot do swipe to open Inbox or attach/detach files. WM can except but it can't render html. CANNOT do something is certainly much worse than a partial can-do (i.e WM client cannot render html but the email content is still there).

What recent ROM? From what I know the menu is HTC customised one not default WM one. It is still there as of now. Even IF it is not there, there is still the back button which does the same thing. Now you are stooping so low to suggest that out-of-box function is not valid whereas you can bring in all your jb app? Maybe you want say TF3D does not count also as well because it is an add-on. Well, any credibilty of your rebuttal just went down the drain.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
No. :p You are the one that said the ONLY thing WM is good for is GPS navigation apps. No confusion on my part. It is you who forgot.

Frankly, when I brought up this multi-selection capability, it is more of a general one that applies to everything. I really have no idea how this has become a just about "deleting email".

???

No. I dont have anything against it. But using it as a mean to score points is not right. You categorically say WM UI is crap (smoothness etc) but when I say Apple UI is not super-duper either then you brought out all your jb apps as justification. But when I do the same, you said I am talking nonsense (e.g. Start Menu history list - even if new ROM dont have it, there are many menu replacement apps which has history list). I am only against your hypocritical way of debating :p.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Let me be the referee here. How about we compare stock iphone to a stock HD with no flashing or jail breaking and no 3rd party app. Anyone who doesnt abide by the rules is automatically disqualified. OK start! Lets get it on!
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
First point: I did not say we have to exclude third party software. But you have to choose which one you're using. In other word, if you use a third party software, it must live harmoniously with the other part of your setup. For example, if you've chosen to use TF3D, you can't run say SPB mobile shell at the same time, or the procedure for using it would be so clumpsy, so resource hungry that most people would not contemplate it.

I have analysed our past postings, and noted that the first time you think I'm restricting you to only stock applications was in your post #139 point 7, where you somehow erroneously concluded that I'm placing such a restriction to disallow winmo device from using third party software. Your conclusion was based on my statement that I had personally stopped using Resco Picture Viewer because of the dated interface. I corrected your erroneous conclusion in post 141 point 4. Now you've just reverted back to having that erroneous conclusion once again.

Second point: The mail client display was from the stock mail client, although there should be no restriction against using third party mail client. I did not prevent you from using Profimail, but you can't be using that to claim your set up allows you to read the HTML mail, and AT THE SAME TIME saying that you could one swipe to change inbox between accounts while using ProfiMail.

You have not disproved my point regarding winmo's OS of general characteristics of jerkiness, lower responsiveness, relative instability, etc across ALL applications. Tell me how that can be done now.

Using third party application should never be termed as "stooping low". I had never said that you can't use third party software. Tom Tom itself is third party software, so is SoftMaker, and I see those wonderful applications are giving winmo devices substantial advantage over iPhone at the moment. You're begining to condemn me for saying things which I never did.

You had mentioned ability to invoke recently used applications as a key strenth that winmo has over iPhone. I responded by saying that I could press the Home key which immediately display the last six applications used. I also wanted to remind you that if you use the latest ROM, say from Dutty Xtreme, then the start menu will now not be showing the last five application used as it is. Of course you could choose to stay with the older ROM if you so choose.

You're trying to wringle out yourself out of the hole that you've dug. You had probably read from some old posting regarding iPhone's inabilty to multi select for deletion, which was true in the earlier firmware. It is no longer true. Now you try to say that a cat is not really a cat.

As I said, if we're not allowed to use third party software, then you will not even have TomTom, SoftMaker, and the like. I had always carry out this debate based on the assumption that you can install software such as TomTom and SoftMaker into winmo device, and also third party application into iPhone. That reflects real life. Name and describe which software you're using.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Another example of you putting words in my mouth. I said that FOR ME, I only use my HD for GPS navigation applications at the moment, because I feel that I could do most other things better on my iPhone. You made this conclusion yourself in your post 148 (the last point), and I clarified that that was not what I meant in post 149 (the last point). Who is stooping low here?

I had never said that you can't used third party software. This is yet another example of you making up your own conclusion. If you have an application that can show you Start Menu history when using say Dutty's ROM with the new menu, just name it. I could be wrong and could be unaware of such a third party software, and would be happy to see you name that third party software.

Not only you put words in my mouth, you're now using the word hypocritical. That's cool.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Hi brusko. When I look at your profile, you have made only one post prior to this one, all done just a while ago. I was wondering in my mind whether you're really another user name used to shield mib1800. LOL.:D:D. Anyway, I assume that you're such a good speed reader that after just a few minutes of birth of your account you could have narrowed in to this particular thread which is already 22 pages long. Do you know what hardspl, flashing, and cooked ROMs are already? If so, how come there has been no post under your name in those threads so far? Have you been able to do everything without help? You had also never made any post to help others so far? Now suddenly you want to be the referee, but echoing what mib1800 is saying?

Like I said before, it makes no sense to use either device without third party software. What good is HD as a GPS device without TomTom and the likes? What good it is as a tool to create serious office document without SoftMaker?

One of the key strenth WM device had for years over the other devices is the wide choice of third party software. In earlier days, iPhone was seriously lacking when compared to winmo. Now, other than the two named areas, what I see is that iPhone has progressed a lot and has in fact overtaken winmo devices, in terms of the varitey as well as quality of the software. Not every software around is an ifart. Of course, like I said, some users may have very specific software which only exist in winmo platform at the moment. If these users are willing to name their software and describe what they want to do, I believe the vast army of iPhone developers will be giving it a shot. After all, it is not easy to identify unmet requirements as a software developers.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] lucy81:
god i want iphone so badly but got not enough money to buy it
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
@mib1800,

You mentioned that VOIP client is useless unless there is multitasking, and that I do not know the true meaning of multitasking. When I asked you to explain to me, you did not answer. The only situations that makes multitasking so "indispensable" from your post are from post 139 where you said:

"OK. You are just using it to make cheap calls. I am using it to make cheap calls as well as receive voice chat/im."

May I ask you do you talk to one party over VOIP and to another party using voice chat simultaneously? Does either of the party get confused over what's happening? Can you listen to one guy and talk to another at the same time?

Please show us how to do that.:D
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
More on areas where iPhone is behind other than GPS navigation and Office document editing with desktop class functionality.

- Using the camera to capture name card and to automatically create contact record, like what World Card Mobile is doing. Is this is an extremely important requirement for you, hold back on going to iPhone.

Just gone through the list of software that works on HD in the wiki and I think those are the only three areas without third party software solution as far as I know. If you're aware of more, please help out by pointing that out. Thanks.

Somewhere down the line, I will try to compile a list of areas where iPhone is ahead. Would be a bigger effort doing this, so please be patient, and watch this space.