yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] PelloG:
damn...i think there are no WiMo haters in here. But at least 1 iphone hater...and i am sick and tired of them.

I own a HD an what i like is:

- the huge screen, the formfactor (i had a hermes before), the huge xda-devs community (i love you all), that there are some nice programms out there, that the HD is much more customizeable

what i dislike: the sloooooow camera. absolutely unusable for snapshots of people (if they are not dead), that everything is laggy comparing to the iphone (and i mean everthing is faster on the iphone), that nearly everbody (producers of accessory, software, etc) will produce their stuff only for the iphone, the poor qualitiy of the HD's housing (batterycover makes crack-sounds, poor glossy frame), that HTC produces so many devices and an then necglect the "older" models (eg. the touch hd will never get an 6.5 update officially; that's a shame)

at the moment, i think that the HD will be my last WiMo phone. i was a big fan of WiMo since my first WiMo Phone (MDA Compact). I think microsoft will lose the game against apple and some others. IMO they don't really want to win. But i hope, i am totally wrong...
[Touch HD General] fwt:
I've got the iPhone when it arrived here in Germany ... and got myself a HD for Christmas.

When i got my HD I was a bit disapointed.

Screen lags ... Flickering Display ... and so on ...

But then i remeberd XDA-Dev-Site

Now my HD runs like a charm ... this little beautyfull Thing :D

This is my primary Handy right now ... even if I flash it about once a week .... there are so many great ROMs!!! :rolleyes:

And the iPhone is ... where is it ... :confused: ... just kidding :p

It's @home and i use it like an iPod Touch ... and sometimes when I'm on a trip I use it for Geocaching and Internet.

regards

fwt
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I think you'll find that's your logic. I didn't say anything in my post to suggest that was the case. The iPhone's UI is a strong point certainly, but not the only one point.

Check out Intelliscreen. It's jailbreak only of course, but just one of the customisation options available if you want to go down that route.

Eclipsed? I don't think so. Let's be realistic here. The HD can match the iPhone in a few areas, and if you obsess about pixels you can imagine it even exceeds on video, but for a complete joined-up multimedia experience the iPhone is anything but eclipsed.

Firstly, essential?? I don't think so. The OP certainly didn't mention any requirement for an AF 5MP camera (nobody who required that would even be looking at the iPhone in the first place, and quite a few people have looked).

Secondly, I think we both know that the HD's camera isn't quite all that. AF 5MP may look good on the box, but in reality we both know the HD's camera isn't its strong point.

Again, these aren't "essentials", these are things you read off a list somewhere. If you genuinely use them all (and presumably you have your 32GB card already, a couple of them perhaps) then good luck to you, but they are by no means "essential" to everyone, or even all HD users, or potential users.

Again with the "essentials". Read my post again and you'll see I pointed out the voice navigation myself, I also said the only reason to buy WinMo is if you need particular WM features (the ability to run the all important Phonesuite perhaps), which you obviously do. Others' mileage can and will vary.
[Touch HD General] Techvir:
THis is excatly my story too...

Bit disappointed by HD in the begining but now so happy with all the tweaks

Iphone , the best package out of box but misses so many things..

I would still recommend it for some one who does not want to bother tweaking around with their phone

Hence iphone may be good for majority ( how many do you think plays with installing firmwares in their phones , less than 5 %)
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
In general, as a complete product, and particularly for the needs of the OP, yes - the iPhone is "better". I don't think that's an unreasonable or far fetched statement. It's quantifiably a better music player for example (see various threads here on sound glitching with the HD). Performance is slicker overall, the UI is better, these aren't exactly controversial statements.

There really isn't any downside to jailbreaking other than the temporary inability to update firmware until jailbroken versions are produced. It doesn't affect email or stability. It's true that many have given up on jailbreak, but that's more to do with the fact that as the appstore has improved, it's become less necessary.

You seem a bit confused about jailbreaking - there's no reason why a jailbroken phone can't be backed up or restored via itunes like any other, and little chance of you "accidentally" updating your phone with official firmware (it doesn't happen automatically). In reality "jailbreaking" is no different to trying out different ROMs on your HD or other WinMo phone - in fact the exact same principles apply.

The HD is the challenger here, since the iPhone was well established before the HD was released - and in reality it's the HD that matches the iPhone in some areas, exceeds it on some technical points, but falls short on plenty of others.

Interesting, has anyone found a use for that yet? No, naturally by "joined-up multimedia" I'm talking about the rolled up experience of itunes/ipod/appstore all right there in the phone, delivering an ease of use and a quality end-user experience that WinMo customers can only dream of.

Yeah, that's such a huge problem. Huge. It must be amazing to never have to encode your own video.

You wish surfing was better with the HD because of the RAM, and the tab, and passwords... but it isn't. Sorry, but no.

I can honestly say the only thing that would improve Mobile Safari as a phone browser would be Flash support (proper support, not a dodgy hack).

Iphone = unlimited data plan, and that's exactly how it should be.

A good UI is always important, sorry. You can quibble over the definition of that, but the fact is that the best features in the world are worthless if the user can't access or control them adequately. Is the iPhone's UI "dumbed down" or simply designed for fast, efficient, comfortable use? Is the iPhone uneccesarily restricted or is the OS just optimised for speed and stability? We could debate that endlessly.

The iPhone is 100% stable, and I believe it probably is the easiest to use UI - but as for the rest, don't try and lay it at my door, they aren't my words.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
It certainly isn't 100% stable - i crashed safari numerous times, far more than the Touch HD in fact (and that's a hugely tweaked HD too).

Iphone is clearly better for the majority, I'll give you that. Personally I prefer the extra resolution for browsing though - in landscape mode I never need scroll sideways at all, just up/down, hardly even need to zoom because the resolution is so excellent. On the Iphone a lot of sites need constant zooming and panning, very tedious.

Ditto video quality: 2.5x the pixels gives you far more detail.

At the end of the day, which is better for you dfepends on what you do with it. I had both, weighed it up, and sold the iphone. Wasn't too difficult a choice really.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I can honestly say that for me, on the latest firmware (2.2.1 I think) Safari doesn't crash. At all. It was pretty crashy at one point on previous firmware, but not since the update, and you can't say fairer than that really.

Aside from Safari, the phone itself was always 100% for me and still is. It gets a reboot/power down once in a blue moon when I have to turn it off for a meeting or whatever, and that's it. It doesn't even need that.
[Touch HD General] petvas:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=655507

That is what I posted on the Macrumors forums...

The HTC Touch is far from perfect and I believe the combination of it and an ipod Touch is the way to go...
[Touch HD General] Psyberd:
Go for the Rock

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=484132&highlight=rock+iphone

:)
[Touch HD General] galaxys:
LOL...I also want the Rock!
[Touch HD General] phamhieu:
yeah, i strongly agree with you that iphone is rock-soliiddd :D this is what i think... (see attachment)
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Your first post and you show your intelligence, Bravo!!
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Is this really an issue now we know the ideal settings for acceleration? Yes, it'd be nice to be able to play files without re-encoding, but on the other hand if we simply played low quality divx/xvids it wouldn't take advantage of all the pixels the HD has. I like to re-encode from hidef sources, which gives outstanding quality. Fullscreen accelerated 800*480, totally smooth, and 2.5x as many pixels as the iphone can muster. For video playback quality, no other phone can match that.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
That's the benefit of that Apple SDK which people love to ***** on about - it puts some very powerful tools in developers hands and makes them easy to use and access. The "iplatform" as you call it includes native support for powerful display technologies and other goodies which Windows Mobile simply doesn't get anywhere near - plus the UI elements that make even simple iPhone apps look and feel so much better are very easy for devs to call up and use without any real effort.

As for the cheapness, that's another benefit of the Appstore and the success of the iPhone and Touch - economies of scale.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
you do know that the iphone is capable of playing 480p content

infact this is what the iphone can playback

"Video formats supported: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats"

why don't you encode any small 5 min clip with these parameters and then see if HD actually has the vid playback quality that you assume it has.
[Touch HD General] riky:
Actually I have both, I had the first gen iPhone, now I have an iPhone 3G, I also have an HTC TOUCH HD with dutty hd 2.1, sincerely I have read only some posts of this tread, in my opinion, iPhone is intuitive and simple to use, it's my favorite for music which HD can not rival, the sensibility of the screen makes the iphone a lot more comfortable, for sms, photos, music, and an easy and speedy way of navigating in the interface, iPhone really is fantastic, there is a lot of apps in iTunes that you can make almost everything if you are welling to pay for some, and it´s my favorite in usability, call quality is better, global finish of the iPhone is more stylish and more comfortable on the hand.

But........ The HD has a screen that the iPhone can not beat, you can customize almost everything, You have TOM TOM and other gps APPS that don't exist on iPhone, battery is better, you can put whatever roms you like.

Simplifying the HD is a tool more recommended for serious professionals and for you to change and upgrade is appearance looks and software, it´s a lot more customizable.

I use booth, but after using them for 3 months, my favorite is the iPhone, because it works with the multimedia and phone integration in a way that windows mobile can't, videos start a lot faster and photos also on the iPhone.

The HD has better resolution in opera and photos, but navigation is not so fast and is bad and we compare, because of the resistive screen. iPhone screen is grainy when compared, but it really responds magically to the touch.

Só I have both and I like both, but if I have to choose one, the iPhone was the phone for me.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
It can play it, but has to downscale. The iphone is 480*320, whereas SD 480p is 720*480. The Touch HD is 800*480. so can display the entire picture, and 1:1 with no scaling needed at all.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
tv out (or lack off) anyone???

but more specifically, what do you think will look better 480p 2.5 Mbps MPEG4 video downscaled to HVGA or WVGA 1.5ish MPEG4 at WVGA??

Again the entire thing is highly subjective, Which device has better color gamut, higher contrast, blacker blacks etc etc and not just whats the screen resolution
[Touch HD General] arfster:
It's definitely the latter, speaking from practice - you simply don't need 2.5mbit for SD, so the extra bitrate doesn't matter (I've actually seen 720p done at that bitrate with good quality encoding, even looks good on a big plasma). Sure, you could probably do with a bit more CPU grunt on the HD to manage nearer 2mbit for WVGA, but you can't have everything.

Yeah, that's definitely true. However, resolution is really helpful here, because you're inevitably watching pretty close. However, you do need to re-encode from 1080p to really get the benefit of the Touch HD's res - if you're just watching DVD source then the advantage of having 1:1 vs downscaling is limited.

When you do bother to convert from 1080p>WVGA, the Touch HD's detail is simply amazing. After the novelty wore off, I stopped watching video on my iphone. On the HD, I'm doing it again, because the quality is terrific - great for the train :-)
[Touch HD General] robertc1987:
Boinng, if you hate WM so much, go away.

I'm frankly sick of the iPhone bots all around the net, from the media to forums. It's impossible to escape this impenetrable cabal of Apple prejudice and bias!

There are, to my mind, only three significant innovations that the iPhone brought to market:

1. Ubiquitous multi-touch

2. Desktop-quality browsing

3. Centralised distribution of applications.

The rest of the crap the media continually has wet dreams over is all fluff because when you really look at the feature set, the average Nokia has had way more features than the iPhone for several years. The iPhone gang like to downplay the lack of features, but the reality is that they do matter - particularly the piss-poor camera and lack of bluetooth filetransfer.

Does WM look a little ugly - sure, but mobile professionals are way more productive on WM. From email to organising to the availability of Visual Studio custom-applications, WM is infinitely more powerful; making the iPhone look decidedly dumbed down. Where the Windows Mobile professional is using advanced medical analysis software or accounting software, the Apple Iphone user is blathering about the latest amateurish iFart app.

And that's the thing - I'm fed up with Apple's pernicious contempt for the intelligence of its users - their paternalistic approach to feature inclusion "oh no-one uses MMS or copy and paste" is beyond reproach. The beauty about Microsoft is that it never pretends to know more about what the user desires than the user himself! Only Apple could be so arrogant.
[Touch HD General] shuflie:
I'm in the UK too, and the iPhone was in no way the forerunner to for affordable unlimited data. I had that with t-mobile and web'n'walk well before the iPhone was announced or details of its included data plan was made available to anyone. At the time there were a few raised eyebrows about the fact that Apple had gone with O2 as their partner here because of the data restictions they had at that time. Its good that the arrival of the iPhone forced another operator to slacken their grip on the internet, but like so many things iPhone, it wasn't the first.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
No. I still own a WM device, and I haven't written it off forever - more to the point, I don't need to.

If you can't handle a grown up discussion that may occasionally contain ideas you disagree with, maybe you should go away. Maybe you're not really cut out for the internet.

I'm sick of people dreaming up "bots" and "impetrable cabals" to explain away facts and opinions they don't like, but you don't hear me whining.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Did you miss the "most people" in the paragraph you quoted? It's true that T-Mobile had cheaper internet first, it's also true that the bigger players like O2 and Vodafone continued to fleece people regardless, because they had the power to do that. It took the iPhone to convince them otherwise, and I think most people recognise that.
[Touch HD General] shuflie:
I actually had missed the most people bit, but the question I have to ask is - if cheap mobile internet was important to you then why were you not with t-mobile in the first place? I have an iPhone myself (1st Gen import from the states) and actually quite like it, but I now use a Touch HD as my main phone and keep the iPhone mainly for iPod functionality. I do get a bit sick of Apple's we're the first attitude though, for example only today I got an email through from them about the new shuffle, the main selling point (according to their website) is that its the first music player that talks to you. Someone should tell them about windows media on a smartphone or PDA that has MS voice command installed, press the voice command button and ask it what song is playing and it tells you. Its been doing that for years. So not only is it playing the music and talking to you, you can talk right back again and tell it to play something else... or phone someone...or start another app...etc. I wonder if Apple have patented the idea that your music playing device can talk to you?
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Simple really, I live in a fairly rural area and when I previously used T-Mobile for a year (at a time when, ironically, their data was incredibly expensive and Vodafone's packages seem quite progressive in comparison) I found the network coverage really patchy. Since then I've stuck with the "big two" (Voda and O2), since their networks are older and just a lot better outside the cities/big towns. Cheap data's not a lot of use if you can't even make a call!

I'm not an Apple fan generally, I'm not going to defend them over everything, but what you're talking about is just simple marketing to be fair. The Shuffle is a cheap PMP for the masses, not a complex smartphone running additional paid-for software, so they're not exactly being unreasonable in ignoring the existence of a completely different and non-competiting product. My wife talks to me (usually) and she plays the flute, does that invalidate Apple's claim as well?
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
That's the only thread I saw with HD reception issue. Over at howardforums, users are still complaining left & right about Iphone reception problem even after so many firmware upgrade.

I thought I read the MMS is only for UK users (i.e. limitations with a specific workaround)

Would I swop tbt nav, mms, a2dp, multi-task, better screen/camera/battery/reception and freedom from Apple bondage for some fanciful eye-candy UI. Absolutely not.

You can pinch while holding the phone with the same hand? :p :lol

We know for a fact as of NOW, Iphone is lacking a lot of capabilities. Which WM have you used? I have a older WM (Atom) and I can tell you the feeling/usability is very much better on the HD.

You still can't do a lot of things with Jailbreak. e.g. Iphone may have Backgrounder but that is just a workaround as the app needs to written to be able to run in the background. You cannot multi-task any app you bought from AppStore.

Out of the box, HD is certainly more complete compared to Iphone. AppStore apps are league ahead? :p Give us a break. There are some great games/apps but most are small useless throwaway ones. Where are all the all-in-one phone suite, PIM apps like Pocket Informant, web-browsers, voice navigation etc.

Nice going there. Why are you so happy to be tied down by Itunes?. Why is there no alternatives? On WM and on every other phone on this planet, you can use a WMP/PC suite (just like Itunes) to organise you music or you can just copy it to the phone and play.

Havent we been thru this before? How about open a link in new tab? how about seeing the full page without zooming on the nice high res screen? how about loading multiple pages at the same time?

You have a mind block or something? The keyphrase is:- Why must Iphone force trouble on me to re-encode? Why can't it support more media format when everyone else does?

That's a choice we have. You can choose to turn flash off. Or you can use Opera mini to improve load time and save a lot of battery life. With Iphone you are in jail - as simple as that.

Yeah. Kid yourself all you want. Suddenly organising information in folders/categories becomes unnecessary since the Iphone came out.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Unfortunately for you, the same can be said for WM

not exactly the right forum to bring up the camera, don't you think.

Blackberry/Rim

wonder why no one told me that there was advanced medical analysis software for WM, i still have to carry my palm for that.

Tell me is that why the X top of any core app never closes the app but instead minimizes the app, a decision that was taken FOR YOU by MS, and despite almost what half a decade of protests, they are still sticking by it??
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
It Does, Sue those SOBs :)
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Why does it bother everyone when someone likes the iphone better? I went from the hd which i loved to the iphone 3g, jailbroke it and i wouldnt go back to the HD. Sure i miss copy and paste and a 5 mp camera but i can acually see my screen in the day light, i dont need to finger tip the screen to touch what i want, dont need to press down on the screen, have a whole lot of games and apps. I still have video i also have picture messaging and email.
[Touch HD General] Psygnosis84:
Because they can't let it go themselves, so it's fun to play with these idiots.

They are highly ignorant about everything Mac, making it even more fun ridiculing them.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
@Turb0wned

Are you sure you used a HD before? I can see the HD screen in the sunlight no problem. It is a little washout but everything is still visible.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
That's just a default setup, it's easily changed.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
the sames true with iphone, everything can be easily changed.
[Touch HD General] Psygnosis84:
too bad you can't change magically change it for a better phone.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
really? I always thought Iphone is locked down up to the level of look and feel. You are just limited to the settings available which is very little compared to other phones.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
So.... no problem at all then?
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
wont say that, but bout quarter of the prob that there are with wm.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
i'd rather magically have your head come out of your rear end, but that won't happen either will it
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Yes i did have the hd and u cannot really see the screen in the sunlight. The hd onlyhas 65k colors.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
going by your definition of "see", you cannot see Iphone screen either. :p
[Touch HD General] Psygnosis84:
god doesn't allow it to happen twice, remember it happened to your mother before.

Now if people are still wondering why we bug Apple fanboys, here is the proof why these morons take it personal.
[Touch HD General] Turb0wned:
Again i loved the htc hd. But wm has been falling behind, its a fact. In a few years windows in general prob wont exist. Linux and Mac will take it over.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Seems like the spelunking your dad would give you every day when you were a kid has distorted your memory.

That Old Broad was your mother.

This is your first WM phone and you already think you are an expert.

I have seen loads of idiots but none like you.
[Touch HD General] DrDistorzion:
just a fun little add to my previous post, right after I had posted it, my HD crashed when I opend Opera to check the iphone-version of facebook. That's not a very heavy site you know..