yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] leoni1980:
Browsing is better on the HD? Well that's definitely subjective.

If browsing on the HTC Advantage is any comparison then browsing on the HD WILL be excellent, however a higher pixel count doesn't necessarily make the experience better, and for pure flow and enjoyment I still prefer using my Iphone 3G to My Advantage for simply looking things up and browsing news sites.

This is down to personal preference though of course, and it's perfectly understandable why you'd prefer the HD for pure browsing. For long browsing sessions I'd probably prefer it too.

And the article you linked...?

That is NOT proof that Windows Mobile supports capacitive screens. More to the point, the reasons cited are ridiculous - asian markets wouldnt be able to use a stylus for handwriting recognition??

Well boo hoo. Well for one that's untrue - you can readily buy styluses for capacitive screens, and even if it WERE true this doesn't explain why a capacitive touchscreen Windows Mobile device has NEVER been made.

Why for example did Samsung (a MANUFACTURER of capacitive touchscreens) not include one in their Omnia i900 Windows Mobile device? The handset doesn't even COME WITH a stylus, so the limp handwriting recognition excuse goes out of the window there (no pun intended)
[Touch HD General] Insaneboy:
And WinMo7 is in dev and will support multitouch...

So what?

Point is there's no DosBox, PS1 emulators, so ATM WinMo's the better emulating OS :p

The thread is really begging to be closed imo.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Shrug, on the O2 UK site. How do you make links clickable in here guys? ( EDIT: Oh it worked this time!)

http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paygo

Wanna compare prices now?

Kev
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Can you name a WM phone (before the iphone) which made significant use of an accelerometer?

You wouldn't be if you'd actually followed this thread, rather than leaping in and jumping to conclusions. Kevwright's already explained himself in full.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Thanks, but can I have a link please, still not sure where it is from, clearly IDC so I will have another search.

Kev
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Where did this Kev go???

Please explain to us how you came to become so anti HD and Pro iphone.

Please tell us what you don't like about the HD

Please tell us why is the iphone better?

Please
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Thanks Ryan, I understand that, I would do the same had I not originated it, that would be rude of me.

If you see this, can I ask for one last comment on your signal issues.

As others are looking to quote you to try to imply that iPhone barely ever gets a signal, can you clairify a little, and if not, I will understand.

Kev
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
I wouldnt call a 150% larger screen subjective. The browsing is definitely much more better.

And where is your proof that it cannot? Why should Windows Mobile not support it. The screen is not a software issue but a hardware.

This is not ridiculous at all, even more rather comprehensible.

Since when? A week ;). Not to say that I wouldnt even call these stylus.

You just mentioned the reason yourself, apart from that it costs more.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Thats where I got my prices from, but I can nowhere find the mentioned £400.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Oh come on, is that it?

Apple don't set the plans, O2, Orange, ATT do that so that one is wrong.

Nothing at all ILLEGAL in the UK about activating, nor I doubt anywhere else.

32 Pages of limitations? Good to see you have no real answer still.

Nothing ILLEGAL about using a RebelSim

You know, the more I hear the saying fanboy, the more I like it!

Makes me feel young again :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Yes, basically the ONLY feature .... extremely useful those light sabers :D
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
I am sure no one wants to go back to page 6 or so :-)

In the end, if I had not used iPhone for 6-7 months, I would have been fine with the HD, well, maybe.

In short, the screen is just not as good as iPhone, and the Touch elements are lacking.

But I am not gonna start it over again, this thread is all but done now I think.

Kev
[Touch HD General] leoni1980:
I'm speaking from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I own an Advantage, I've owned Diamond and about a billion other HTC devices and I strongly believe that there is a difference between desktop browsing and 'convenience browsing'.

Opera 9.5 is fantastic and I cannot fault it, but I like Mobile Safari equally and for its own reasons (mainly the ease with which one can zoom and pan). I like both.

Expense is hardly an excuse for the lack of capacitive screens. The Touch HD is no better than the iPhone in terms of PURE HARDWARE and yet it costs %50 more, despite only having a resistive screen.

And you ignored my valid point about the Omnia (itself an expensive handset). Could samsung really NOT AFFORD to put one in this device?

Seems a bit of a rubbish excuse to me, given that the experience of using the Omnia would have been improved tenfold with a capacitive screen.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
No they just need to have those skyrocketing plans because of Apple's marketing scheme.

Jailbreaking is illegal

If you ignore ALL the mentioned limitations I cant help you, they are right in front of you - just to help you a bit, multitasking

Basically YOU still OWE us an answer!

Good that people having other phones dont need to spend additional bucks to buy some adapter and cut down the sim.
[Touch HD General] rovex:
Apple DO set the plans. The networks have to bid for the right to sell the iPhone, the bid includes the tariffs. It was Apples choice to limit the iPhone to a single network and the consumer suffers as a result. Apple is notorious for being a control freak with its devices, and its one reason why i dont own any and never will own any.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
So then a 150% larger screen is of course objectively better.

I am not keeping Samsung's or HTC's books but if you are convinced that capacitive screens are not supported provide some proof.

So your only complaint is the screen? Admittedly capacitive screens might be better in some cases but this would not be my only reason to ignore all the advantages of the HD over all the limitations of Apple.
[Touch HD General] darthbane2k:
BS! Ask ANYONE who works for O2 and they will tell you how Apple has those iphone price plans locked down tight. They are in a position to dictate price of the plan and set price of the hardware, thats why there are no retention deals or flexability for O2 customers where iPhone are concerned. Apple also have put pressue on O2 to stop stocking new Toccos(only refurbs left) or Omnias (which was supposed to be on O2) because those particular touch phones were proving a little too popular.

You can buy a range of WM devices in a range of price brackets on a range of networks. There is a WM device to suit anyones need or budget. Now THAT'S CHOICE!

Rebelsim is not a solution. Yes it is a violation of O2/Apples terms and conditions (if you care about that stuff),but if somehow O2 make changes that block the functionality of rebelsim, you are left on your own...
[Touch HD General] rovex:
If you turn off the automatic brightness control the HD screen is better easily. Frankly the 2.5X more pixels is a winner for me and the touch is nice to my fingers.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Understandable.

Exactly.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I got one innovation past you already? Too easy! Ok, so we've got the accelerometer which Apple used for switching landscape/portrait in most apps, and HTC then used later for... switching landscape/portrait in some apps. Oh, and Apple used it for games, and then HTC used it for.. some games. Yep, not much sign of Apple innovation there.

So how about a few others? What about the proximity sensor which switches the screen off when you hold it to your face, and back on when you need it again - did HTC use that before? Anybody?

How about that capacitive screen - anyone use that for a touch interface before? In case you didn't know, it allows the screen to the hard optical glass (scratch resistant) and improves visibility in sunlight no end. Did many other manufacturers use that before the iPhone? HTC? Anyone? Of course it does multi-touch too, was that a common feature before the iphone?

Let's see... there's threaded SMS, that's been in the iPhone since day one, but I expect most other phones had that right? No? But they wouldn't want to copy that in Windows Mobile would they? Oh, they did?

I really could go on and on, but who's got the time, I'll only be called a fanboy again..
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
Thanks for the entertaining thread everyone.

I too will now retire from it, i really truely only want the best phone i can get:). At the moment there really is only WM for full flexibility, but please believe me when i say i am open to change and i will be keeping a keen eye on iphone and android in the future.

Thank you for starting an entertaining thread Kev even though (and i must say it) you have ignored many a good argument against the iphone! 'fanboy' or 'fanman' lol. (not an insult, just a joke).

We all know that the best phone is relative to individual needs. For me HD is by far the best.

regards

DB
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
For those who are asking....

If you read the thread, Kev has given explanations why he has gone the iPhone route. He did try the HD and it wasn't best for his needs. No need to say he OWEs anyone anything.

Still comes down to what you need versus what the phone can do.

In terms of the capacitive argument, I think that would be difficult to implement on winmo. The OS and applications weren't written to support multi touch (at least I don't believe they were) and so imagine the headache in rewriting those apps to support that.

If you were in Pocket Excel for example (an iPhone owners dream ;-) ) then how would it cope with two simulatenous touches on different parts of the screen?

That's where Apple have the edge I guess in that they are starting from a newer technology position.

You can get the iPhone for £400 in the UK on pay as you go, but you are tied to O2 with that I believe.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
You already mentioned that. Basically the only innovation.

Capacitive screens were in use long before Apple, even Microsoft already used it. Maybe not in phones, but for itself its all but innovative.

And yes, I own a phone with a capacitive screen myself and its not the Apple cage.

What an innovation.

Fundamental things like video calling, MMS and other for-years standard features are missing. This is what I call innovation.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
For me as well or the P565 maybe.

His only explanation was the screen, which I consider as rather an excuse.

Capacitive does not mean multitouch.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Eh? The question was, did any phones (WM or otherwise) make use of capacative screens before the iPhone, not did capacative screens exist. "Maybe not in phones" would suggest it was a little bit of innovation on Apple's part. Is that two for two?

Threaded SMS? Well it was good enough for WM6.1 to roll in as a fixed feature requiring a reg hack to change, so presumably it had an impact somewhere.

Do you know, I could have sworn I'd asked you about the proximity sensor to turn the screen on and off, but you seem to have accidentally ignored that bit. What about that proximity sensor, bit of an innovation wouldn't you say?

That's what I call changing the subject :)
[Touch HD General] rovex:
Apple did not innovate an accelerometer into a phone...

No doubt there are a few new things in the iPhone, but nothing huge and its certainly not a revolutionary or innovative device. The revolution and innovation was the way it was marketed and sold, and that isnt always to the consumers benefit.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Changing the type of touch screen is not that innovative

Point taken, but just as the light saber support this is not new technology for itself but only applied on a phone. A nice gimmick, not more.

Not really, something innovative should bring new things but retain present ones. So where are MMS, video calling, multi tasking, copy/paste, .....
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
So drzoid was wrong?? Dear oh dear. So what was the first phone with an accelerometer, and what did it do? Gaming control? UI orientation? Use it very successfully, did it?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Oh alright, I will not deny the fact that your HD has lots of faults and could be better :-))

Ok, on a serious note, I hope I have not turned into a deny everything guy, I have tried to always tell it as it is FOR ME.

Is iPhone perfect, no way, I would love a longer battery life, and it would be great to plug it in to any USB port and use it as a drive, as I used to with my N95.

The thing is, for me, a guy that changes devices every couple of months or so normally, the iPhone has come along and changed all of that.

I really don't think I have been a fanboy on this thread, it certainly was not my intention, but if it happened, so be it :-)

Now, as this is a WM board, what specific issues do YOU want resolved.

Kev
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
It is when it's utilising a new technology (in this sector) to deliver new benefits (more durable, better in sunlight, multi-touch etc).

No, sorry, you don't get to call either of them gimmicks. Accelerometer support is fundamental to the way the iPhone works, the way you use the interface, the way you control elements on the screen - without it they'd need to redesign the whole interface. As for the proximity sensor, it's the perfect solution to an age old problem with touchscreen phones - on my Tytn II I remember HTC "solved" it by putting the screen in standby every time you took a call, and you either had to edit the registry to prevent that (and risk pressing buttons on screen with your face) or switch it back on yourself. With the Iphone it's simply on when it's in my hand in front of me, off when it's at my ear - not a "gimmick", just the very best way of doing something.

I'm not arguing that those things wouldn't be nice, but actually no, being innovative doesn't mean you have to include any of those things, it simply means finding new ways of doing things, and breaking free of the old "standards" if you want to. The iPhone is the epitome of that.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Keep reading, I did reply to that message, but like i say, it goes back to page 6 or 7 so no need to repeat it.

Until I got the HD I was not sure of the difference between Capacitive screen and the sort that WM uses. I kind of did not see the big issue.

It was only using both side by side (which not many people here can claim) for a few days that made me realise the difference, which is huge.

Now, let me be even more clear, I think it was unlucky for the HD that I had used the iPhone so long..........

Kev
[Touch HD General] rovex:
Well there are a number, but the prime example was the N95. That was out before the iPhone and had accelerometer support for the camera and had apps and games that used it before the iPhone hit the stores. I remember this very topic on mobile sites at the time, iPhone users were so sure they had it first.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Well said, I have got too bogged down here now, but you hit several nails on the head.

I will never have a WM phone again unless WM 6.5 or 7 supports Capacitive

Kev
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Where is it fundamental to the user interface apart from tilting the phone?

Thats probably subjective, my phone locks the screen as well and a single click reactivates it. No problem.

A gimmick, like I said.

Just throwing some known technology into a device isnt innovative. Apple's phone certainly comes with some nice gimmicks but at the very same time lacks most fundamental features. I am sorry but this is a fact.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
I agree that a capacitive screen can make a big difference. Personally I would have preferred one in the HD as well, but first I want to see how well HD's is. Asus now seems to come with one.

However, the screen itself would never be the reason to dismiss all advantages over Apple.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
So Boinng was entirely wrong. What a shame :D

Thanks for the info by the way.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Look, read the whole thread please.

Steve makes it clear in several places he WANTED to get an iPhone, so NOTHING I said to him there is rude, nor are there any lies?

Anyway, I am sure Steve can and will respond himself.

Kev
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I remember too, and I remember why there was confusion - because although the N95 had the doohickey inside, Nokia didn't begin to use it until some time after the iPhone's release. Have a look here for example, posted in October 2007, months after the original iPhone was out and shaking it all about - http://thenokiablog.com/2007/10/31/video-nokia-n95-accelerometer-demonstration/

My bold, BTW. Do you want to have another go?

Sorry to dissapoint :)
[Touch HD General] rovex:
Yes the iPhone does score a few wins over the HD, but the HDs wins over the iPhone are fundamentally more important and on much bigger issues. They arent always about the device itself either, but the restrictions put upon it and its use.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
You said you would like to see iPhone do those, I showed you it could.

The best way to "close" a thread is to stop posting to it...... :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
As I have said, this whole thread is about that issue, but I have answered again elsewhere.

As for iPhone, and HD, do you really think HTC would have gone for the HD look and feel AND ditched the D-Pad if the iPhone was not such a success?

Kev
[Touch HD General] rovex:
As i said Nokia did use it for the camera, and there were apps for it, although they were very hard to find, it became widely known sometime after, that i grant you. The point remains that Apple did not come up with the idea of using an accelerometer in its devices first, they simply made more use of them. That is not true innovation, its taking someone elses idea and running with it.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
I am not saying HTC didnt take no inspiration from Apple, but so did Apple.

And if you look at the Wizard you see that HTC had such phones long before Apple even thought of it.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
It switches orientation in the browser and photo apps, also in my Spreadsheet app (oh, yes, I have one, it cost £1.19 from the App store), it also forms the flight yoke of my X-Plane flight sim, and allows me to cast a line in Flick Fishing - it's an essential part of the phone.

It's subjective? So explain how having to use that "single click" is better than not having to bother at all? And we're not talking about phone locks by the way - I can lock my phone with a single press - I'm just talking about having to access something on the phone when you're speaking on it.

No, and that's not what Apple did. It's what Nokia did, for example, when they through an accelerometer into the N95 without programming anything for it - but it's not what Apple did when they built their whole device and interface around these technologies in wholly new ways.

And another change of subject.
[Touch HD General] MAK11:
FYI the HTC Athena had an accelerometre (HTC VueFLO used in Opera 8.5) before the damn iPhone.

Now can we stop with this pointless iPhone vs XXX thread ?

Can the MODS close this thread (like they did today with the other iPhone thread)?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Hey, I prefer content over style :-)

What is the problem?

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Sorry, I have looked, but can not even see a program for this?

Kev
[Touch HD General] fnord:
Great report, found it very insightful.

Can you comment on the HD camera?
[Touch HD General] Pawel062:
also iphone user here and hoping to get touch hd soon. nice review. though where u get the iphone 6-7 months ago when the iphone came out in july? i remember bc i stood in line to get it on launch day. btw i totally agree with many points as i have turned on and flashed both my athena and polaris. both have stuff the iphone doesnt have. am looking forward now to selling both my htcs to get the touch hd.
[Touch HD General] Matterhorn:
The IR that I'm referring to is a dongle that goes from the Slingbox and sets in front of your video source box. The software on your phone/laptop/PC sends info to the Slingbox which sends IR codes to your Video source (Sat etc). You can then control the video source just like you would in your living room with the normal remote control via your phone/laptop.

I have just seen in another thread that the Slingbox software is working on the HD yipeee!
[Touch HD General] bsw11:
Itunes control from WM

Your itunes control problem from your HD-touch (or any other Windows Mobile) is solved:

www.alloysoft.com/

Also controls winamp as well.
[Touch HD General] cojones:
Good insight Kev.

I have a diamond and am considering an upgrade to the HD. The thing with the diamond that annoys me is the mis-tapping that seems to be a common problem. How does the HD compare in that respect? I'm also nervous about losing a D-pad, can you comment on that, as you had a diamond too?

thanks, Cojo

p.s. you can still SMS Sky remote record to set up recordings when you are away from the box...it just costs a few pence!
[Touch HD General] srmz:
Hi Kevwright. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. After reading your post I think my continuously changing preference between the HD and the X1 is over.

Just one question though. You mention you used the Aeplus to map the volume rocker for the up and down arrows of the conventional D Pad. Is it possible to map using this proram the "Home" and the "Back" buttons as the right and left arrows of a D pad.

I know it will be trouble for you to try this out for me but I will be obliged if you can do so.

Thanks and Regards
[Touch HD General] Osir1s:
Well I have to say Kev that was one massive block of text but some insightful points in there. I myself have been using the original iphone and then the 3g for about 6 months all up. For years I was a WM user and ill get my HD tomorrow so will be interesting to see how it compares next to the iphone but also how it is going back to WinMo.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I'm interested to hear how the video performance compares between the Iphone and a new WinMo device like the Touch HD. Coming from the Tytn II, which had famously poor quality video support, the Iphone's a whole different world and (without being too dramatic) it's hard to imagine it can be beaten on this sort of sized device, but is the HD it's equal for video or does it better? Does it surpass both the Kaiser and the Iphone, or is it somewhere between the two?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Whoops, sorry about that, I was getting confused cos I had original iPhone before that, you are right it was in July, one week after launch.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Nice one, thanks for that.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Thanks for the SMS reminder, but its not as nice as TV Plus :-)

As for mis taps, not seen any of that at all, but I must confess that using the HD a bit more has made me also question the lack of D Pad.

Kev