yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Ah, I see what you're saying - Apple products tend to be good, so it's best to ignore them. HTC products are much more mediocre, so they're the ones to spend your money on. I understand.

Well, their original mobile division did very poorly, then merged with Ericsson, and now their combined might is slipping down the sales charts as well... so not sure where you're going with that. Seems to me it's not that easy to take on the mobile market from a standing start two years ago and win, as Apple are doing.

A year or so ago, I doubt there would have been many here predicting that Apple (despite being "known to do well") would be outselling both Windows Mobile and RIM right now...
[Touch HD General] hagba:
Oooops..from what I know 120 million WM licenses were given away by Microsoft last year alone....!!!
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Here's an interesting article on the last quarter - http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/11/10/iphone_q3_figures/ - it has some interesting stuff on reliability surveys and things, but also this:

Apple's OS is in one phone, WM is in how many?
[Touch HD General] a28:
In Q3.

When the new iphone 3G was introduced, so it's obviously!
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
And when the Touch Diamond was launched, and probably a few other Winmo phones I've forgotten, so what? Are you expecting winmo to take the lead in Q4 when sales of the HD, and Xperia X1 kick in? Good luck with that...

The thing about the iPhone is it's appeal is actually increasing as the early bugs have been taken care of, and the Appstore continues to grow and add value exponentially. You can expect price cuts soon too, apple can afford it.
[Touch HD General] BigBoi:
Damn, this is gonna be a real tough decision. Was so close to ordering the Touch HD. Then I read the post of mackaby007. He really got some good points. So for the first time ever I thought of getting an iphone. The only thing thats really annoying, there is no navigation software for the iphone. Whats the use of gps if you can't use it? Ok, google maps. On the other side the touch hd which has so much potential and again HTC can't produce a multimedia device, not even able to play video as posted in another thread. Guess I gotta wait some time longer and check out the next android phone or take an iphone with tomtom being able to produce a usable navi software soon. Why can't there be a device where its easy to say: "Hell yeah, this is what I want!!" ??? I know there's a downside for everything but those issues could have been solved for the iphone as well as for the Touch HD. Maybe apple and HTC just want to leave something to improve. What about producing the perfect device when everyone is satisfied and won't buy the next step in mobile evolution?
[Touch HD General] veloaudio:
I feel the same about mackby007's post, my HD is supposed to be here today so I can do a direct comparison to my iPhone 2G.

The perfect device??? I always need to have the next best device out there; its a sickness really. Apple, HTC, all of the manufacturers know this. There will always be something better out there and unfortunately (for my wallet) I'll have to have it.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
What, my entire message was one blaock without any line breaks?

I wrote it in Wordpad and cut n pasted it, it appears fine here, sorry about that.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
I guess as it was me that started this thread by directly comparing to iPhone, he feels it is a good place to get answers, and I have to say in general in iPhone forums, all you get is worship.

Fact is, the HD is a direct competitor to iPhone, so why not let people compare them here?

Kev
[Touch HD General] SiliconS:
Looks perfect to me too. Firefox3 / WinXP
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
No, I think the same, and if you read my new message you will see I have now returned the HD and am staying with iPhone.

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Hi, interesting post, and I agree with almost everything you have said, having spent some more time with the HD, it has gone back and I am keeping the iPhone. I will try to explain more in a seperate post below.

I think the comment about RSS Hub is a little harsh though, as I only really meant I preffered it because I could not find an app for iPhone that would directly download VIDEO podcasts, so does "Feeds" do that?

I do wish the app store could offer time limited demo versions of most programs as WM, Symbian etc does, although I accept the trend in the app store is moving towards lite free versions and paid for versions.

I know Feeds is only £1.19 (UK) but it would still annoy me if it I paid that and it did not work as I wanted.

Anyway, I have now found the excellent Mobicast, which requires Jailbreak, but works great. And of course in 2.2 software it will be built in.

As to the 6-7 months comment, I already apologised for that slip in another reply, simply lost track of time, and I had the original iPhone before the 3G one :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Not me anyway :-)

Only 2 things I slightly disagree with in your post, first, for me 3G is what original iPhoen should have been, GPS really is very good.

And we should make it clear there is no actual SIM Unlock for 3G yet EXCEPT the universal sim type arrangements you have listed.

You can unlock the original iPhone very easy, but not yet the 3G

Kev
[Touch HD General] Nyberg:
Got my HD today and i have already spent some hours with it. I´m more than satisfied! :D

Though i´m Swedish and ordered from eXpansys sweden.

I knew i was going to get the EU version with english, spanish, german and italian text input. But i wan´t to use åäö on the QWERTY keyboard without having to press "123" button all the time and search for the letters.

Now my question is: Is there some way to add these letters to the QWERTY keyboard or do i have to wait for the Swedish ROM to come out?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
OK, take a look at this.

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_081110.html

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Hey, if it helps, I was the original poster of this thread, and have decided that for a TOUCH phone the iPhone is better for now, and WM just needs a d-pad and an OK button,

Now, Touch Pro HD with slide out keyboard anyone.......

As for Sat Nav, you know, I would love TomTom on my iPhone, but everythime I get TomTom running on my phone, I kind of think that it is nice to have the phone seperate.

So I am keeping a Trinity, which is simply superb for TomTom, and almost worthless in terms of selling.....

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Update.

OK, so it was my post that kicked off this thread, and I wanted to update you guys after a solid two days of really using the HD.

I realise that some things here go against my OP, but I guess that is the way it is.

Bottom line is, the iPhone is staying, the HD got posted back today under its return period.

I would like to state that for me the HD could be the best device, but it does need a D-PAD really.

But in fairness, it was two things that won it for me for the iPhone.

1. Touch control is just that bit better on Apple's machine. As others have pointed out, Apple had the advantage of starting from scratch with this, and everything is designed around the tocuh screen.

I think it is fair to point out that if you have not been using an iPhone for the last 6-7 months, you will find touch on the HD very acceptable still. Just don't compare.

2. Screen brightness. I did not realise this when I made my OP, as I had not compared side to side. But for me with my failing eyesight, the much clearer, brighter screen on the iPhone makes all the difference to me, but again, if you don't compare, then the HD is still good.

I hope you guys will not hold my change of mind against me, it was and is an honest attempt to post my real thoughts and findings.

Kev
[Touch HD General] trentend:
It's early days for me with the HD, and my perspective is slightly different. The iPhone is just not viable for me, simple because it doesn't do things that I need my combined device to do (iGo for turn by turn navigating in Eastern Europe, tethered 3G data to my laptop, amongst others). I recognise the advantages of a simple touch interface for people not needing to delve deep into the device, but it's no good if it doesn't do what you want.

I also have a diamond (MDA Compact IV actually), unmodified on the stock t-mobile ROM (a business phone). It's really good for the things that I need it to do. I'm quite happy with it, despite some idiosyncrasies. It's nice and compact (a bit hard to see at times with busy web pages), and does everything I need of it. I bought a HD as my personal phone. It has all that and a sumptuous screen and a size that suddenly makes sense of the interface design. I can get around really well, and don't miss the d-pad (not that I was ever a great d-pad user).

I don't think I'll be needing to change the touch HD ROM any time soon. As pretty and touchy feely as the iphone is, it still doesn't do what I want. It probably will never do what I want.

We all need to make our own choices, but if you need to customise your device for specific tasks the windows mobile platform, and HTC hardware, still offer options that the iPhone doesn't. For people in the converged device market sector, this is likely to be an issue.
[Touch HD General] Prerna:
Holy sh*t! That's enough to have me be more patient before buying again HTC.

I won't repeat the same mistake as when I purchased a Touch Pro just when it reached the stalls.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
What is the return period?

Hi Kev - you mention returning your phone in the return period. What is that?
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
My Views

Another recent UK owner.....

My history with PDA phones goes Wizard->Hermes ->Kaiser and now the HD.

I took a serious look at the iPhone before buying the HD. Why? Apple have a tendency to do things well.

I bought my first iPOD this year having owned several other MP3 players and have to say was very impressed. The analogy I gave at the time was the difference between a Starbucks and a Maxpax. They're both coffee but I know which I'd rather drink.

So...why didn't I go for the iPhone?

Several reasons really:

1) It doesn't interface with desktop PC apps (Excel etc) and by that I mean EDITABLE

2) The applications are still limited so far

3) Lack of expandable storage - I know 16Gig is a lot, but when you can have a 32GB SD card....

4) Didn't want to take out a moby contract (I know the position has now changed)

5) Didn't like the non-replaceable battery

6) Didn't like the amount of time the battery lasted

7) Had heard that the 3g was poor never mind HSDPA etc

8) Not the most configurable unit

However, the iPhone is a very well put together device and OS. Some may even call it sexy, but it's never stimulated me that way!

So....onto the HD

Why did I choose this over a Kaiser?

1) Better form factor - Kasier is just too chunky

2) Gotta love the screen

3) Headphone jack - at last HTC see sense

4) More memory/RAM

Impressions so far....

I'm surprised the increased RAM hasn't improved speed as much as I'd hoped. Opera, whilst nice is much slower than PIE, even over WiFi.

I bought it unlocked so it was *&*()& expensive.

I don't do much video stuff, but what I have recorded seems to play OK (3-400MB files).

I'm generally pleased with it, but £500 is a lot of change. Not 100% convinced it's worth that, or that the iPhone is worth £400 either!
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Battery life comparison

For those of you who still have both your iPhone and Touch HD, would you mind giving some objective information on the battery life comparision between these two great devices?

I'm a little concern with iPhone's inability to use a spare battery. Currently, on my winmo device, I need two additional spare battaries at least in order to last the full day, based on the amount of internet surfing I do using 3G. (Perhaps because my battery is quite old by now) Alternatively, I need to ensure it is always plugged into the power source either in the car or otherwise.

With iPhone, I assume I would need to be sure that I have access to power source during the day, right? Or may be iPhone is not that power hungry since it does not multitask?

Care to share your experience in this specific area?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Can someone compare the download speed please?

I understand that Touch HD's download speed is 7.2mb/s while iPhone's is 3.6mb/s, but given the state of our network is there any real difference between the two?

Can someone with both device try download the same file and compare the time taken please? Perhaps download a youtube file and save it.
[Touch HD General] BigBoi:
So, right now I have one crying eye and a smiling one. I'm going to turn my back on WinMo. But on the other hand I got a whole new world waiting for me. And as I know myself, in two years when WM7 is out and really running I'll be back. No, I'm not changing with the wind, I just like to make new experiences. I so much hoped the Touch HD could deliver that feeling. I know there will be tweaks and hacks and all that kind of stuff trying to reduce the shortcomings of the HD but this time I don't want to wait. :( So HTC, please get going and produce a hell of a device with real multimedia capability and I'll be back. Hope to meet you soon.
[Touch HD General] nir36:
You're missing my point.

the point is that it's individual.

I won't go buy an iPhone just because it's considered to have better hardware while it has an OS i can't/don't want to - work with.

the iPhone gives you a "work ready" OS for people who don't wanna mess around with their devices while WM devices give you a worse OS but you can do 9000 times more with it if you decide to put in some effort.

or take size for instance. i have a polaris, let's assume i don't want something bigger. is there an iPhone in another size?

take tech-support. the tech support in israel (for instance), for apple's hardware is hardly existant while HTC's devices are supported thoroughly.

to make this short - all i'm saying is that the fact that you see the iPhone as a better device doesn't mean it fits everyone.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
MobileGolfScorer for EagleSteve

....does work on the HD.

I've only it on trial at the moment but it seems fine. Uses all screen real estate etc.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
That's fantastic news. I am grateful for your effort. I wonder why Andreas (the owner/programmer) told me that it does not support it.

Would you mind testing it more thoroughly just to make sure? Make sure for example that it does not hang, that when you click on the button, they respond correctly, that when you click on a data entry field you're able to enter values correctly, etc. This is one of the three critical areas that would help me decide between iPhone and HTC Touch HD.

Thank you.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
MoGoSco - Screenshots

Hi Steve,

All appears to be working well with what I can do here (can't test the GPS unfortunately - or can I ?)

Might email the programmer & see if I can get a cheap licence for doing his testing lol!
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
You should be able to test the GPS. As long as it gets a fix, we know it's okay. Go to Setting, and under the GPS tab, choose the option to automatically find a port.

It does appear to be working based on your screen capture, although it does not stretch to the bottom. Can you try entering 5 players, and go to the round applications and see if all the five players scorecards can be entered?

On the 480x800, the fifth player is kind of partially covered up. Would be nice if Touch HD can properly shows all five players, in which case, it would be an improvement over my existing Athena.

My liking for Touch HD is increasing now. :-)

Thanks.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
GPS is fine. I couldn't enter 5 players (probably a restriction of the trial), but I did get 4 in and took a screenshot for you.

Looks like there's plenty of real estate left for at lest another 1 if not 2 or 3
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I think this proves that Touch HD has no problem with MobileGolfScorer. Thanks. Andreas would be pleased to learn this.

Now, that is Touch HD 1: iPhone 0 in this area. I hate to tell my golf buddies that because I've changed to iPhone, all our handicaps and score histories are gone for good.

On the other hand, if I can find something close on the iPhone, then....

Thanks again.

Edit: Found a number of very similar applications for those golfers who are trying to decide if iPhone could cater to our needs:

-GolfCard http://www.senygma.com/GolfCard.html The handicap calculation is flawed thought. Does not consider equitable score control, course slope, etc.

-TeeShot Live. http://www.teeshotlive.com/teeshot/documentation

-Birdie. http://www.pleasantsoftware.com/birdie/index.shtml

May be.... iPhone might be able to meet the requirements in this area.

Okay, I have personally decided that iPhone will do in this area as far as application goes. This is a significant progress in my evaluation process.

Provided its battery is capable of outlasting a usual 4 hour round with GPS on, leaving enough for the rest of the day. Bear in mind we do not have the ability to switch in the spare battery in the middle of the round.

But seriously, the risk of running out of battery in the middle of the round is fairly high, isn't it? iPhone users care to comment? Touch HD would not have this problem.
[Touch HD General] hagba:
Exactly on the head..

BTW if you have a jailbroaken Iphone you can get

IGOLFXP2 from Bigbosse's Repository,its the iphone version of Gxp2 the OS X Golf scoring applicaion.
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
Final verdict from me

Following on from my thoughts last night......and seeing Kev is returning his for an iPhone it got me thinking....

Bear in mind I'm upgrading from a Kaiser...

How would I rate the HD out of 10 against the marketing hype....Probably an 8.

The main "disappointment" (if you can call it that) I have is Opera. It seems sluggish even over WiFI - PIE is much better. The device itself seems quick enough, but I guess I was expecting an iPhone like performance from it. I'm sure over the coming months the XDA Gurus will sort that out.

The screen is fantastic, so so clear and easy to use due to increased font sizes.Battery life is also impressive.

So in asking whether it suits my needs, What do I actually use the device for?

GPS:

I use NoniGPSPlot (freeware) when I go cycling/running (3-4 times a week) to record my distance/speed etc.

TomTom - Recent convert to SatNav and TomTom is the doggies doo-dahs

Office Apps:

I use Excel and Onenote a lot (editing) and Word/Adobe mainly for viewing

Pocket MindMap - a must for me

Skype - light usage

KeePass - light usage

Media:

I'm not huge on watching videos on a phone, so to some extent not that bothered but maybe if I end up with a long commute

I did used to take an MP3 player running, now I can take the HD (couldn't be bothered with the Kaiser due to headset restrictions)

Phone:

Calls and SMS, not that into MMS

Data:

I use the internet quite a bit, and windows live as it's free

Also signed up to live mesh for syncing to the cloud

Thus options are:

1) iPhone is out - there's just too much on the above list it can't do - I'd end up having to buy a Satnav and a Garmin GPS exercise thingy and still no office apps and would have to sign up to mobileme for email

2) Stick with the Kaiser and buy another MP3 player (mine's old & needs replacing). Prob cost me £100

3) Stick with the HD

Is the HD worth an extra £200-£250 (i.e. sell Kaiser for say £150-£200 and avoid buying an MP3 player) over the Kaiser?

In my opinion, yes it is. Certainly when we get a few cooked ROMs and WM6.5/7 comes along.

So to summarise:

The iPhone is very very good at what it does. In my opinion it does it's stuff better than the HD does it. It just doesn't do enough things. It is a media player/phone/Browser

The Kaiser is just too bulky for me and (as I now need glasses) the screen is an issue. Media playing is hampered by the proprietary headset.

The HD is 8/10 at the moment and I expect that to go to 9-9.5/10 once we get some ROM cooking going.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Thanks for this additional info.

In the area of golf application, I think my research in my previous post has provided enough assurance that there's going to be okay. The only thing that bothers me still is the battery life because iPhone doesn't let us change the battery when it runs out, especially if you're still out in the course with no power source to recharge the device.

The only two application areas where iPhone has very serious problem is the lack of navigation software at least for now, and the lack of serious office application. I'll keep researching in these area and hopefully something would turn up. If you can help, I'll appreciate it.

Cheers.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I'm sure everyone would come to their own conclusion based primarily on the application requirement of that individual. Your thinking process is very similar to mine, which is to analyse all the application requirement first before making the decision rather than just looking at the hardware, which to me is secondary.

If I'm to make the decision at this moment, I'd also choose Touch HD because only here could I run a decent GPS software and to meet the office application requirements.

However, I intend to exhaustively look for solution in these area for iPhone. The phone is too attractive to be simply passed over without going into deep research and analysis. That's how I would approach this.

I had almost placed my order for the Touch HD. Then when this thread came out, a lot of what is said got me thinking again very seriously. Had I been jumping into conclusion too quickly about iPhone? Should I not give it a more serious research before jumping into conclusion?
[Touch HD General] donzx6:
I know what you mean...

I'd love an iPhone, but I just can't justify it to myself. As I think most people acknowledge, it does what it does exceptionally well.

Will be keeping an eye on your posts Steve to see if you reach that Nirvana where the iPhone does everything you want.