yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
So is the case with most WM Phone, Which get huge carrier subsidies.

And For the record, i would not like to be in any meeting where the discussion is centered around which phone i'm using.

Yes it is True, and if you have proof to the contrary then bring it on the table.

Heres a personal anecdote for you.

i have personally used Palm, Symbian S40 S60 And UIQ, Mac OSX, Windows Mobile

My Personal Fav. Among these is Palm Followed Closely by iPhone Then Symbian UIQ and S60 and lastly WM.

In My Extended Family, We have used all Major OSs and guess which OS has the Most Grumpy Users - WM, and whats the most common complaint - Lack Of Stability.

Heres a Little experiment for you to do,

Try crashing an app. in Symbian (Your Proffered OS) or iPhone and See how it affects the OS, try Doing the Same in WM and you'd realize why people complaint about lack of stability.

When An App. (or a thread or a service) crashes in a Good OS (Symbian For Example) it cannot take the entire OS down, because it is Sand boxed, In WM its a free for all.

Anyhow, i could go on and on but you'd still think that WinMo your Saviour.

So keep Living in your delusional world, but don't post here without doing your research.
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Flashing with Dutty 2.6 deals with any smoothness issues. If you're not willing to do that, maybe go with the iphone.

Stylus I only use once in a blue moon. Just not needed anymore.

wrt to stability: I've had smartphones for 6 or so years, from the Ericsson P800, the HTC Magician in 2004 (the one Appled ripped off their design from). There definitely were stability issues back then, which was frustrating, although it gradually improved as WM got bugfixed. When I switched to the iphone and then the iphone 3g I was expecting an improvement - but they actually crashed just as often (not a major problem, but still). The Touch HD itself has been the most stable smartphone I've had yet, despite lots of reg fiddling, flashing new ROMs etc. Very impressive.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
It is compared to iPhone. Remember it is not just winterface that should concern you. It should also be all the applications, such as Album.

When we use your finger to scroll a list in winmo applications, we may find menu popping up in an unwanted way, depending on the length of time you touch it, etc. You may also find an item being "triggered" when all you want is to scroll. These may or may not happen depend on which application you're using. You may also find the item not scrolling, or scrolling less than your finger intended, then suddenly, things seems to e catching up and scroll too much as if a background process has just completed and now all the processing power is completing the accumulated scrolling instruction all at one go (whether or not this happens also depends on the ROM and application used). It is not as easy to control reliably, in short. You can get used to it, for sure and may not even notice it, until you've tried iPhone for sometime and come back. I alway had to tell myself to hold my HD carefully and not touch the screen because they will set off some unintended action. With iPhone, I can alway hold the screen and not worry about it. It is hard to describe this well but I hope you get what I mean.

When I asked my friends to read a webpage on HD and use their finger to scroll, none of them could do it properly. Instead of scrolling, they let their finger rest on the screen and cause the pop up window to appear. Also, depend on the amount of pressure they exert, the webpage did not always move. When I gave them the same webpage in Safari and asked them to read, everyone liked it. The webpage moved in exactly the way their wanted right away. These are people who had never touch a smartphone in their life and have no preconceived idea on which is the better phone initially. The feedback after that is the same: they much prefer iPhone.

Stability is another factor I would consider.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Dutty 2.6 is far less jerky than WM6.5 but is still far from being smooth as compared to iPhone. Take the album as an example and do it side by side with the iPhone. .You will notice big difference in speed, performance and responsiveness.

Similarly scroll the webpape with Opera Mobile next to Safari and see the big difference. One is jerky, one is smooth. One gives you a headach reading it while scrolling, another is a a pleasure.

Go further and try the keyboard. One gives inconsistent response (like sometimes when you press the key in the HD keyboard, nothing gets register because it thinks you press too softly), another consistent and easy to use.
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
Buy the HD, When the next iphone comes out, buy it too and use it for a couple of days, if you don't like it, ebay for a huge premium on the price you got it for.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
If you are used to texting (T9 predictive), I dont think you should go with either Iphone or HD. Iphone do not have a T9 keyboard period. HD is better with support for T9 keypad (and if you install TouchResponse you can get haptic feedback too). But it is still not the feel of a real keypad or have the same efficiency.

If you want a smartphone to go with those functions you describe, you may be better off with a N-series like N85/96 or Samsung innov8. Camera and video rec are much better too. There are also a good selection of apps. The only thing lacking is big touchscreen. For browsing, if you have use opera mini on your SE before my opinion is that you wont not miss much. I still like opera mini on my N82 more than Opera on HD or even safari of Iphone. Opera mini is so much faster and easier using the physical keypad shortcuts.
[Touch HD General] evildead4eva:
I think i could quite easily get used to the touch screen keyboard though, and it cant be THAT hard to adjust to.....

I used to have a sony ericsson p900 and it was amazingly good. :)

I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever buy a nokia :) lol (bad experience)

And I'm quite happy flashing rom's. And will deffinetly be changing them once i eventually get mine!
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Hrrrm - you sure you've tried Dutty 2.6? Just used it, album is perfectly smooth, essentially perfect on that count. I remember in stock roms it was pretty rubbish though.

I can think of plenty examples where it's still not smooth, but that's not one of them.
[Touch HD General] evildead4eva:
I also thought that the opera browser loaded the full page where as safari reconfigures it?

What other ways is it jerky? :) lol
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Yes, WM is less immune to rouge app than Symbian. You may say that Iphone is more stable than WM and I would'nt object a bit because I know due to no multi-tasking in Iphone chances of things going wrong is much reduced . But you are the one who is really delusional when you agree to the statement that vast majority of WM are crashing constantly all the time. :p I have quite a few commercial/freeware apps on my HD and it is not crashing left and right.

You and eaglesteve are the ones who need to provide the evidence because both of you are the ones that proposed this theory/proposition (i.e. WM crash all the time). The onus is on you to prove your own theory to be true. In the real world (which obviously you dont know what it is), you will surely pay for libel when you bad-mouthed something which you cannot back up with evidence. :p Until you provide evidence to support your own theory I suggest also you dont post here because who wants to read unsubstantiated rubbish. :mad:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
The Album in Dutty 2.6 has made a very significant improvement over the stock ROM. With stock ROM, it takes a long time for my storage card to appear after starting Album. With Dutty's 2.6, it appears immediately.

However, it still isn't perfectly smooth.

Here are the differences:

1) HD paints the thumbnails very slowly. There is zero delay in displaying the thumbnails in iPhone.

2) You can use your finger to exactly control whether you want iPhone thumbnail to scroll and by how much. It will obey your finger 100%. With HD, If I try to scroll the thumbnail, it may not may not move. Sometimes, instead of moving, it launches the display of the picture instead, although once you "catch" the thumbnail, it does scroll exactly as you want.

3) With iPhone's picture, you could zoom in and out exactly as you want it. With HD running this ROM, when you draw a circle to zoom in and out, you often drag the picture along rather than do the zooming. It's not easy to control.

4) With HD, launching a few videos on my storage card basically locks up the device for at least one full minutes before the black screen with "loading" appears. In this regards, Dutty's ROM is also a hugh improvement over the stock ROM because the same video could not be played at all with stock ROM. It simply freezes the application requiring a reset and clean up the memory for it to function reliably again.

In contrast, iPhone plays such videos instantly with no delay whatsoever.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Sorry, what do you mean by reconfigures it?
[Touch HD General] evildead4eva:
I'm not 100% sure, but i thought that the safari browser alered the way that the page was displayed, sort of like opera mini i beleive?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I said majority of winmo devices do freeze and require soft reset. Our poll showed about 2/3 of HD users experienced that to varying degree.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I'm not sure either. What I do know is that the webpages is perfectly free of wobbling and jerk as it displays, and when you try to scroll it, it moves up and down like a piece of paper, completely still and stable. In Opera, it wobbles as the pages are displayed, and is jerky when you drag it.
[Touch HD General] evildead4eva:
I know what you mean about the way that opera loads up.. But i dont mind it loading up like that.

Reading it would be a bit of a pain if it wasn't smooth flow. But i'm sure i can live with that.....

Just gotta get my HD now. . . . Iphone dont seem as good...
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Understand. For people so used to T9 predictive keyboard to do lots of texting like you, they do type extremely fast on them. Just like I did with Tengo. To be honest, my typing speed in iPhone is nowhere near what I do with Tengo, so I could understand where you're coming from. As long as you carefully evaluate your requirements and do enough research with an open mind, you are unlikely to regret your decision. Anyway, technolgies changes so rapidly, that what you like today may not be the best choice tomorrow, so you might even revisit your decision at a later time. This has nothing at all to do with being ficker minded or not, it is simply keeping up with time and progress, and tailoring the decision according to the requirements and solutions available at the time.
[Touch HD General] viczena:
i do not know, what system you use. in my opera nothing is jerky and nothing wobbles. everything is smooth and fast...
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
In that case, you can go with Iphone or HD depeending on what is more important to you. The UI of Iphone definitely has more aesthetic appeal compared to HD. It is also true in certain aspects it is more efficient and user friendly than HD/WM. The reverse is also true. But you should also be aware that Iphone lacks multi-tasking capability (except for playing music) which even your C905 have. ANd of course no T9 keypad among other things.

If for a typical normal phone user, I would think a Iphone may be more suitable but since you have used a P900 and you are also waiting for Idou, maybe HD is suitable for you also. I think if you have read thru all the posts in this thread you would have seen arguments from both sides. THe best is you use them and make a informed decision yourself. Good luck.

edit: I have to add this. You know in couple of months, Iphone may be renewed. Touch HD has been out for 6 months which is a long time in "phone time". And N97 and Omnia HD are also near release. It may be more prudent to wait at this moment. Personally, I think the OmniaHD is definitely much better buy than both Iphone and HD.
[Touch HD General] viczena:
the iPhone keyboard is ****. when you write something other than apple suggests, you get constant error, which you have to correct manually and only with the BS key (without cut&paste and without up/down left/right keys off course). for example it always changes ".de" to ".es". so you write a webpage with ending .de, you dont look what the iphone changes, and you get an error. back again, write the full line completely new, try again. that is the apple style of working. :mad:

without jailbreak you cant even switch off that rubbish autosuggestion thingy..:(

and remember: the iphone can just show you a single document, with MS you may change, rewrite, correct and send it back again. and store it on your phone. like any other file, including ringtones, music, documents. YES: MS has a filesystem together with an file-explorer. holy crap...

how about sending a link by email with an iphone? if you are not able to correctly remember the whole adress: write, switch, correct, write, switch, correct....

also safari is not even able to store often used passwords. so you write, correct, write, correct...
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
I think in eaglesteve's eyes, everything wobbles/jerks unless shown thru the screen of an Iphone. :D
[Touch HD General] viczena:
maybe you will never be in a business meeting where you you get laugh because you use a gaming device as business tool...

and why should i try to crash an app? my apps run rocksolid. i do not even know how i should do so.

i had several apps crashing the iphone completely, and i had to use hard reset. the iphone reacts very flimsy and unstable when free ram gets low. this happens quite easily due to lack of enough ram. in former times, when jailbreaking was more an adventure than today, several people completely bricked their iphone. very easily.

there is a simple reason, why apple forbids multitasking. it is much easier to stay stable, when only one application at a time is running. but i want my GPS running in background, while i check my email, take a look at the webpages (more than 5), print to a network printer , take a call ...
[Touch HD General] akash_nu:
Lol... No comments but couldn't help myself from falling off the chair out of laughter after reading ur reply... ha ha ha..>!! :D
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
You naughty boy. Slap slap :D You try to cheat. :p

http://xdaforums.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111

In your post only 26% said HD constantly freeze. So now are trying to pass of 26% as "vast majority" . Maybe I should remind you what you said:

Dont forget you also need to provide evidence for the second half of your stateement ;)
[Touch HD General] fallenczar:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2331565,00.asp

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/50755EA6-A759-42FD-84ED-EBB5A060AF16.html

http://buzzzword.blogspot.com/2007/10/symbian-or-windows-mobile.html

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/33375430/att-tilt-continues-the-t.aspx

http://gadgetmix.com/index/what-can-windows-mobile-learn-from-iphone/

Now, your turn to provide evidence that WM is stable.
[Touch HD General] viczena:
LOL. the "recipe" for future windows implemetation: dont allow any software you cannot control. control instead of freedom.

no thanks. i prefer freedom.

and i hate greedy monopolists who want to dictate which software i have to use...
[Touch HD General] arfster:
Hrrm, instant for me.

Not seen that either, and I play 800*480 video all the time off the card.

Sounds like your microSD card is borked.
[Touch HD General] evildead4eva:
Whats the best micro SD to get with the phone? (16gb of course :) )
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Im sure there will be but im not so sure gps will come for iphone. Face it guys. the iphone had a good run while it lasted but now touch hd is king. now get over it and move on!
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
what the heck is this?
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Weve heard all this bs from you some 20+ pages long. All iphone has is smooth as butter kenetic scrolling. Heck you can smooth as butter kenetic scroll all you want til your face turn blue but in the end it is still just an iphone and not the great touch hd. Like I said. iphone had a good run while it lasted . now that is not so bad is it?
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
bring on the torches and pitch forks!:) Really the touch hd is just superior to the iphone period. why cant you iphone fanboys acccept that? so your iphone has been dethroned. so what? who cares really if touch hd is king.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Ok when your just buying for looks the touch hd wins hands down. a friend of mine has iphone and hes jaws just drop when he saw my touch hd. it is soooo darn pretty! but iphone is not bad looking either.

for phone sms and email both phones are great. touch hd cost more than iphone though so you might also consider that. as far as smoothness goes the iphone is smooth as butter but my touch hd is giving iphone a run for its money. keep in mind the touch hd is much more customizable than the iphone will ever be.

Now about this there are more apps for iphone that wm. where the heck did you fanboys get this idea?there are more wm user than there are iphones. iphone os is only available for iphone while wm is available in many brands like htc, samsung, asus just to name a few. and why the heck would a developer abandon wm and jump ship to iphone when there are more money to be made with wm tha iphone. maybe for games iphone wuold have more buyers as iphone is a toy and not really a phone. peace fanboys!
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Again with the smooth as butter scrolling. safari browser sometimes have problem displaying web pages. it will screw up some pages when displayed. things overlap which is really annoying! ipera browser is superior to that of safari which is crappy!
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
Well I have to agree on this one. texting with a real keypad is so much faster. you can even text without looking at the keypad. and the camera on my n95 is so much better that my touch hd and video capture is better to with my n95. screen is small though.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
apparently only iphone fanboys who just so happen to own wm devices gets this jerkiness and wobbles. I wonder why.
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
The reality is with buying a phone is that there is always a better phone coming out every few months. so just do your research and buy the phone that suits you best. If you keep buying the next best phone that comes out then youd go bankrupt!
[Touch HD General] brusko1972:
ok seriously though. dont dismiss the iphone right away as it is really a good phone for email sms browsing and phone. it is also cheaper than the touch hd. you might also want to consider symbian platfrom. it is a very good platform.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
The cheater is calling others cheat.

The majority says their devices do hang. It is not to say that they are necessarily bothered by the hanging. I voted that it hanged occasionally and was not enough to bother me.

You were the one saying that yours NEVER hang, not even once. I was just trying to tell you that you're the minority with that experience.

Are you going to take up the challenge or not? Guess not. Go ahead a do a "LOL" and pass it off again.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I have no problem even without turning off auto-correction. The way I do this is to type one more character then backspace to erase that character. In that way the whole word could be typed in anyway you want and be accepted althoug that word is not in the dictionary. No jailbreaking needed.

I won't argue that there are still areas where iPhone has to catch up, and had never have any problem admitting the strength of Winmo. I was a real winmo fanboy, remember? The questino is, can you be as open minded and fair?

Safari not being able to store password on webpages? You must be kidding. I only enter password once and have it remembered. Never have to retype my password to use this forum.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Freedom to crash. Nice.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Defective microSD card was my first thought. I know what you mean. There was a period when I was using my Athena where the system was extremely slow and crash regardless of how many times I rebooted. I did a check with my SKtools and saw that my SD card then was deliverying only 20MB/second of write. Then I did an extensive project on my own and tried out every possible combination of formatting parameters. My findings were posted here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=297144&page=4

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=331502

There was another thread that I posted the benchmark for various parameter combinations, but can't seems to find that thread now.

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I still have the highest regards for Dutty's ROM despite not being perfect. With the stock ROM, there was simply no chance of even playing some of those files. Same with Dutty v1.8, V1.9. It was only in V2.6 that I was able to play them, although with 1 minutes delay. I know what you'll say, it does not happen to you. It did not happen to some people either in V.1.8. I can only guess that it has to do with the type of file format. Some subtle difference in those format could cause problem for album. I never had any problem playing the same file using Coreplayer in winmo, so that again shows that it is not the storage card issue but the software or software/ROM combination issue.
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
Maybe you want to tell me where I am suppose to look?. I just can't find the evidence to support "vast majority of WM crash constantly" ;) . btw: I think you forgot this: :p

http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=1351

I do not need to provide you with anything as if you can remember, I did NOT postulate anything. Why should I want to be sucked into this madness of yours? :p
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
So, you like the first picture more than the second one?
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Your abilty to deceive yourself amazes me.:D
[Touch HD General] mib1800:
But you said something "vast majority WM unstable/hang constantly..." which your poll only shows 26 percent do. Sometimes it is better if you just clarify or correct your statement. :p

Do you see one-third as "vast minority" then?. And why are you equating "occasionally hang" to "constantly hang" having the same severity?

Like I told the other guy, I did not loudly declare anything. You are the one that always do the declaring. Why should any right-minded person wants to join you in the hole you dug yourself. ;) I only know that there is something not right with your statement that "vast majority of WM crash constantly and a vast majority of Iphone dont".

btw: we are still waiting for concrete proof (blogs/personal opinion dont count). How about you show us some independent industrial survey or research or finding that can be collaborated?

I find this so hilarious coming from someone who said:

- vast majority of WM crash constantly whereas vast majority of Iphone dont

- only thing WM is good for is GPS navigation / Iphone has exceeded WM in everyway except GPS (which will also be exceeded when v3.0 comes along)

- multi-tasking is not important as you use it occasionally

- Iphone email client is the best even if it cannot do the basic things like attach files well
[Touch HD General] Kraize:
WOW You're a dumbass. I wrote that it's the ultimate iPhone competitor as of today. You refer to my old post but you can't read? Good job! Btw, you are in a touch hd section. What the **** did you expect? iPhone lovers? I really don't know why you're trying to defend your point of view if no one cares and they'll still only keep their phone. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. Seriously now you people piss me off. I'm going to go buy an iPhone just to see why you idiots love it so much.