yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
If you read my previous post, you would know that I used my own SIM card to test the iPhone in the top floor of the shopping centre, directly under the hugh skylight. When I put the SIM card back to my own Athena, I had full signal.

During testing, the signal strength fluctuated between full bar to nothing, and during the session, there was an error message saying that there is no network signal at all. The shop assistant fixed the problem by doing a reset.

I'm not here to knock iPhone, and I hope you don't get that impression. I do not believe it is misinformation either.

Look at this article if you don't think there is signal strength problem with iphone.

http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2007/12/...ms-weak-fluctuating-signal-boosting-strength/
[Touch HD General] Insaneboy:
You might be interested in this - http://dvice.com/archives/2008/03/the_iphone_styl.php - though it's useless imo :p
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Yes,that would be useless,becauseit's too fat and imprecise for web links.
[Touch HD General] BANE:
I'm not a fan of capacitance screens as I like to be able to use my phone during the winter without having to take my gloves off.

On the whole, I actually prefer the use of a stylus, or atleast prefer having the OPTION to use one. should be getting my HD mid week!! :P I can't WAIT

....IB a n e
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
I can't speak for your experience with one iPhone on one day in one shopping mall - but I can tell you that I don't just think there's no signal strength problem with the iPhone, I use one everyday and know that there's not!

I'm absolutely convinced that if your Athena or the Touch HD had as many users as the iPhone, you'd find a similar article on "athenaatlas.com" explaining what to do to cure it's signal problems too, because there are so many factors affecting signal strength that ALL phones suffer similar problems from time to time. The only difference with the iPhone is the fact that it's the iPhone.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
Sorry to come back to this again, but something was bothering me about what you said here, so I picked up my iPhone and tried this out - what I realised immediately was that actually, the iPhone keyboard will never register a "stream" of the same character, it just doesn't work that way. When you "press" a key, the selected key is highlighted (with the image of the key expanding under your finger) - and you can actually move your finger around until you find the key that you wanted, if you like - but nothing actually gets typed until after you *release* the key. So you can literally hold down a key for seconds, minutes, days if you like - it won't type a thing until you take your finger off the screen. Under any circumstances.

I'm wondering if you might have gotten confused by what can happen if you hold down a vowel character (E for example), and after a second or two it pops up a line of alternative foreign accents and symbols for you to select instead. I can see how if you were unfamiliar with it, and just playing in a shop, you might miscontrue that to be a "stream" of the same character - but it's actually just an optional extra row of keys, and if you ignore it, it goes away with no harm done or characters inserted.

There's literally no way to insert a "stream" of characters on the iPhone without repeatedly tapping the key (rather than holding it down) - which actually irks me sometimes when I want to send a bunch of X's to the wife (old romantic that I am).
[Touch HD General] mackaby007:
thanks for that Boinng. I did not realize the iPhone keyboard had these features so neatly embedded. Just trying it now.....nice feature. Thanks again.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
:-)

I honestly don't find it at all weak as a phone, I don't see that it is weak at audio?

As for removeable battery, I can only speak for me, but I never keep a device long enough to wear one out, and I am never far from power.

When you take into account the incredible number of iPod dock out there, you can almost always give it a top up if you need to.

Anyway, fire up your HD, take it in the car and run your much vaunted sat nav, then see how long your battery lasts :-)

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Er Kev,

When you're in the car, battery life is not an issue because car charger is always used. It's only when you use the device for purposes such as tracking, playing golf that it becomes a problem.

If I use only GPS without MP3 full blast, without keeping 3G open for email, and without making phone calls, I can play at least two rounds of 18 holes (8 hours) of golf without any problem. I know because I have tried.

But the more important consideatino is not whether or not the battery can last long. It is more to do with the fact that iPhone does not allow a spare battery to be slot in when it runs out. So, if you're traking or doing bush walking, or doing fishing out in the sea, and your iPhone battery runs out, you're stuck. Whereas with a device with replaceble battery, you simply carry four, five, or 10 batteries and would never have any issue.

But guys, one may not need GPS at all in his lifestyle. So, it all boils down to listing your own specific requirements and evaluate the abilility of the device to meet them carefully.

This is part of doing the homework before buying a device. Otherwise you end up hopping from device to device, always going for the latest, but never satisfied with anyone of them, and never really know why it does not meet your requirement.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
You know, I agree with your whole message, but the 3 month thing is just SO accurate for me as well.

You know, I WANTED the HD to beat the iPhone, I really did. It just does not do so.

The fact that iPhone is staying and HD has gone, when these people argue it does not do half as much, well that just sums up how good people think it is.

I look forward to what you do in the future.

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
See Ryaninuk's posting:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=443900&page=16

He has both iPhone and HD, and ended up sticking with iPhone, but he appears more objective in looking at both devices.

If you google "iPhone signal problem", you'll see not just the article I have provided by many others. I have also come across newspaper report here saying the same thing. Ryaninuk has no reason to say it as he ended up choosing to stick with iPhone.

I disagree that you can find similar problem with HD. I googled it and found the opposite, that it is excellent signal strength.

On your other point about the keyboard and touchscreen, I'd give you the benefit of doubt here. I admit a two hour playing with the keyboard is not long enough to get used to it yet. I can even conceed that keyboard is a very personal issue and different people prefer different style of input (Mackaby, does this remind you of our debate on the topic of Tengo versus Finger Touch? lol). However, I am still of the impression that iPhone does not offer much of a choice in software keyboard, so you're stuck with the standard although it does not suit your style. In winmo devices, the choices are virtuallly limitless.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Which is dated 12th December 2007 and relates to 2G iPhone on very very old firmware.

I did several side by side comparisions of iPhone 3G 2.1 fw when I had the HD, and there is nothing in it, both were much the same for me.

And at home, for me that meant they both lose O2 signal from time to time.

If anything, I have noticed the iPhone can make a good quality call on a lower signal than a lot of other phones I have had or still have.

The other related thing here, iPhone is the first device I had that "just works" with Bluetooth and wi-fi.

WM is horrible with wi fi, but iPhone just picks up the network, and knows if there is wi fi, use that, if not use UMTS or GPRS/EDGE

All the WM devices I have used, seem unable to do that very well, and as for some BT stacks on some WM phones, don't get me started.

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Perhaps Ryaninuk can tell us if his is the new or the old iPhone. I got the impression that it is the new.

Anyway, I saw the signal problem with my own eyes. It was exactly the same SIM card, operating under the same spot in the Telco Shop, and I saw the difference in signal strength between iPhone and my Athena. I know there are many factors, that's why I used the same card and tested it at the same spot.

I don't really understand why problem is there with the wifi. I have no issue with it. Similarly I have no issue with bluetooth. There is some issue with transfer to PC, but with third party software we can address it. I thought iPhone does not have b/t transfer capability at all, am I wrong? You can get it to just work?
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Oh I know mate, just making a point that battery life will not be massive in that case.

As for having mutiple batteries, what a mess about, having to make sure they are charged, and what about the hassle swapping them over? Wait for restart, then restart all your apps, no thanks, must ruin a golf game :-)

Oh, and why not google Fastmac iPhone Battery Pack, or Brando iPhone Charger......

Kev
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Hrmm, I did google it, and find most if not all the reports relate to 2G iPhone, NOT the 3G version.......

Signal issues are SO hard to quantify, as they depend on so many things.

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
I know it is a hassle, but for people using it for bush walk though, this could save their lives.

When playing golf, I do not carry a spare battery. It is after the game that I sometimes do because I spent the next few hours in a restaurants with my buddies, during which time I'm usually the official person responsible for reporting the share prices of my friend's portfolio, etc.
[Touch HD General] kevwright:
Hey, I am sure Ryan was talking new one, but if he says he had problems, and I say I did not, and Mackby says he does not, we can ALL be right you know, signal is hard to work out.

As for your test, are we talking about signal meters on the phones, or calls made?

Sorry, for Bluetooth I just mean a headset. With most if not all my WM phones, I was forever re pairing the two, and having to switch BT on and off (in fact you have to turn it off on WM, it kills the battery, but makes little or no difference on iPhone battery life so you can leave it on) to make it work.

iPhone does not have BT transfer but you can use Air Sharing App or just email files to yourself.

Kev
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
In my case in the shop that I mentioned? I was having problem with the data connection that resulted in a pop up message something to the effect that there is no network available. The signal meter was mostly extremely low although at times it mysteriously go back up to the level comparable to my Athena's. It was erratic at best. Perhaps out of the box it is something we should'nt touch with a pole (in Mackaby's word ;) ), but after jailbroken and firmware upgrade (is this something that you do as part of jaiilbreaking or what?) the problem goes away.

I remember Ryaninuk saying he did not jailbreak his iPhone which is also the possible reason why he's still having signal problem??

Thanks for clarifying the BT area. Just a bit confused when you said BT was better on iPhone.;)
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Kev,

The signal problem also exist with iPhone 3G. See these reports, all related only to the 3G version of iPhone:

http://iphone.click2creation.com/2008/08/signal-problems-plague-3g-iphone/

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/08/iphone_chipset.html

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1397833

http://www.fixya.com/support/t795353-iphone_3g_reception_problem

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/836474.html

http://www.mediabistro.com/mobileap..._tmobile_remains_my_primary_carrier_99816.asp

http://www.everythingicafe.com/forum/iphone/my-iphone-signal-bars-are-gone-20970.html

And many more...

One of the articles will be copied and pasted in my next post.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
The article below is from the first link of my previous post:

The ranks of unhappy iPhone users continued to swell at the weekend as Apple customers complained about problems maintaining a signal on the company’s new 3G handset.

Over the past few weeks, customers have flocked to Apple’s online support forums to complain about weak or fluctuating signals leading to dropped calls and long download times.

“I have had my iPhone since this past Sunday,” wrote one iPhone customer on an Apple support forum last week. “The reception issues began immediately with 3G flip-flopping between ‘no signal’ and up to four bars — but usually hovering between none and two.”

Not all iPhone users are reporting problems but a growing number of anecdotal reports from around the world indicates that the phenomenon may be widespread.

Apple has yet to publicly acknowledge the problem, compounding the frustration for some users.

“It amazes me how widespread this problem obviously is, and how little AT&T, and especially Apple, has done in acknowledging and addressing this issue,” said another user on an Apple forum.

Speculation about the cause of the poor reception thus far has centred on the iPhone’s Infineon chipset.

“We believe that these issues are typical of an immature chipset and radio protocol stack where we are almost certain Infineon is the 3G supplier,” wrote Richard Windsor, an analyst at Nomura.

“This is not surprising as the Infineon 3G chipset solution has never really been tested in the hands of users,” he said.

“Some people will not experience these problems as it is only in areas where the radio signal weakens that the immaturity of the stack really shows.”

If Windsor is correct, that means Apple may not be able to fix the problem with a simple software update.

Last week, The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple was working on a fix for the problem. Apple and AT&T both declined to comment. Infineon did not return calls.

Apple claimed that it sold more than 1m 3G iPhones in the first three days after the much-hyped mobile handset launched last month.

It has set a goal of selling 10m iPhones, including its older first-generation model, by the end of this year.

Queues at Apple’s downtown San Francisco Apple store have regularly stretched outside the door since, indicating brisk sales.

The problems with 3G iPhone reception come on the heels of the botched launch of MobileMe, a revamped version of Apple’s subscription service, which allows users to store files, check e-mail and upload photos online.
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
That article is ancient news however I can say the problems they are discussing have not been fixed. I remember you saying in the store the iPhone you were playing with went to no signal. What other proof do people need? The cell chip in the iPhone sucks and there is no doubt about it.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Yes, that article is for the 2G iPhone. That's why I later provided only articles related to 3G (four post ago) - those articles are all recent articles.

My preceeding post has an article that also mention someting about the chipset, as you just did.

You're right, I need no proof that it has reception problem because I experienced it personally. If it happens within 2 hours of usage, I expect it to happen often. This has nothing to do with whether I'm used to the phone or not. Or at least, iPhone's reception strength or the lack of it should not be dependent on the level of user familiarity.

Also like you said, I'm sure they did not fix the problem yet.

All that you said are consistent with what these articles are reporting and my personal experience as well.
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
I completely agree here. The best part about the iPhone keyboard is after using it you can achieve typing speeds almost the same a s a notebook keyboard. Try that on HD. Using a stylus to calibrate the keyboard when the thing boots up says it all. After that it doesn't change.

Steve asked for links to a forum where iPhones are discussed so here is what I consider to be the best one:

http://forums.macrumors.com/
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
I agree with a lot of what mackaby said but when he talks about signal strength I can't agree at all. It is weak and you are lucky if it works at all. As far as most everything else the iPhone does it can't be beat. I am sitting here and looking at an HTC Hd and an Iphone now. The iPhone is on 3 bars of GPRS and the HTC is 5 bars of 3G.

It isn't relative. One gets signal everywhere and one barely holds on in areas it shoould get full bars. This is the radio in the iPhone. I don't care the reason, we could all guess about that but one works and one doesn't. The HTC doesn't play nice with anything is hard to sync, it's video capabilities suck and whatever but it's cell chip is way better than an iPhone.

If this wasn't the case the iPhone would beat the HD easily. In fact it probably still does but has some flaws in it that make that debatable. Put the HD cell chip into an iPhone and there is no question about which one is the best.

The HD touch HD after owning it for a couple days is in my opinion an utter piece of garbage. Although the fact is that it still makes phone calls and gets better data transfers just about anywhere I go. That is it's only virtue.
[Touch HD General] ryaninuk:
Here is a thread I was participating in and notice some users are saying they don't get a signal but it couldn't be their iPhone at fault? Some are more objective and realise that they have bad coverage to say the least. Notice the guy that has a Nokai and is saying what I am saying that it gets signal perfectly. Anyway in that thread I am ryanwarsaw. I moved since I registered there.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=600519

I love the Iphone but ugh for the last time it sucks as a phone.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Thanks for the link, and I noted lots of good discussion on the iPhone 3G signal problems there.

Well, when I tested the iPhone and had reception problem, the shopping centre was in the high 3G coverage area in Sydney. Usually only the capital cities in Australia could have that luxury. Venturing out, 3G coverage is either non-existent or at best very weak.

I doubt also that it is the fault of O2, at least not the only fault. The analysts seem to believe that there are some inherent faults in the iPhone chipset.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
But as others have pointed out, there ARE plenty of add-on batteries available for the iphone in the form of battery extenders - like the incase one here for example - http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-for-iphone-3g-doubles-the-juice-lets-you-sy/ - sure it adds a little bulk but still leaves the phone smaller than most, and if you're going on a bush walk who cares? Isn't it more practical to carry something like this than bags full of batteries?

As far as the signal thing goes, as we've said, I can't talk for your five minute experience with one iPhone, and likewise you can't just dismiss my month's experience with another - I can draw a direct comparison between this and a handful of other phones, and tell you it performs just like any other. All the articles you're digging up relate to early issues with the original 3G firmware - Apple recognised the problem and released fw 2.1, expressly advertising "fewer dropped calls" and all the rest of it, you can still read about it here - http://www.apple.com/iphone/softwareupdate/ - so yes there WAS a problem, and yes Apple have fixed it, and my experience (solely on 2.1) bears that out entirely.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Please read this article

http://macblips.com/story/iphone_3g_signal_strength_problems_persist_in_os_2_1/

Quote:

Users continue to report poor 3G signal strength under iPhone OS 2.1. To be clear, iPhone OS 2.1 does not purport to actually boost signal strength. Instead, it provides “more accurate” signal strength display, which, in most cases, means more bar bars, but not necessarily better ...

Unquote

So, the so-called fix was only cheating. To provide a false number of bars.:D

With due respect, I don't dismiss that you find the signal strength acceptable. However, you ought to respect also the experience of your fellow iPhone users as well as my experience, regardless of whether it is just 2 hours or 2 years experience. It happened, okay? It is so difficult for you to take my word for it, that IT DID happen?

As for the bulky battery, no thanks I dont want to play golf with it. The difference is iPhone will not last a round of golf, whereas mine can do two rounds at least.

No hard feeling, but you need to understand that what's right for you is not necessarily right for others. I do not discount that iPhone is the best device for many. To conclude that it must then be right for all is just like saying HD is right for all. It isn't.
[Touch HD General] Boinng:
So where did the "decrease in call set-up failures and dropped calls" (as claimed by Apple) come from? Just by "cheating" with the signal meter? I don't think so.

I think you're looking for posts and articles to support your point of view, while resolutely ignoring anyone with real world experience that disagrees with that. Fair appraisal?

But you do continue to answer that with more "proof" that I must be wrong, don't you? Hurriedly googling for more evidence. That's a little bit negative, don't you think? What are your search terms to find this balanced view of the iPhone's performance, "poor iphone signal"? Is that fair?

I absolutely accept that in your five minutes with one demo phone in a shop it DID happen. I don't accept that's a more accurate test than the great many users who do NOT have a problem with the 3G's signal strength. I fully respect my worthy fellow iPhone users who have issues, but I'm also not going to ignore the many - both in this thread and even in the thread that ryaninuk posted - that have GOOD signal on their phones.
[Touch HD General] eaglesteve:
Boinng,

I rest my case with you. You're just impossible.
[Touch HD General] donbronzi:
I have to back you up here mate. It is a well know fact that the iphones reception is generally bellow par, boinng you might have a supped up handset but in general the iphone has suffered with reception issues.

The iphone 3g has gone some way in improving the call experience (speaker phone, voice clarity) compared to the first iphone but,and this is still a problem, the iphone is an ipod with a phone stuck on! This is because apple aren't... weren't a phone until a year or 2 ago. Name me a mobile phone maker that made a perfect phone on their 2nd try? be patient...

There is a funny trait of an iphone owner, it becomes like a lover and they just won't let anyone put it down, even constructively!! The iphone is still to this day more style than substance, however like everyone keeps saying, it really is a great, beautiful device.

Still the iphone user isn't hearing the non iphone users comments. the fact that once you own one you're locked into all things apple! I'm not going to list all issues raised in this thread by non iphone users but they are relevant and many of them unanswered or answered blinkered views.

Heres to the future, this is what we all wanted. If there is 1 thing i really do love about the iphone is that it has created a true smart phone race. There are now serious phones out there and more to come. Bring it on.
[Touch HD General] drzoid:
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Partly. It certainly pushed the touch screen market and improved the GUI awareness, functionality-wise however it didnt really change much.