yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] plasticarmyman:
I use Bouncer to manage permissions which saves me a lot of time and energy on worrying about privacy. It works rooted and non-rooted so either way it's a good option.

I tried Proton, it was a bit too much management for me. I haven't tried Graphene or Calyx. Waiting patiently for Lineage so I can have minimal gapps and manage system apps permissions as if they weren't system apps
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] Az Biker:
Since opinions were solicited, here's mine.

Moving to a "more secure" Rom might make some feel better about their privacy, but unless you pay cash, get paid under the table, don't use credit/debit cards, use a strong VPN 100% of the time on your PC and smartphone, RF protector sleeves for your credit cards in your wallet, can dodge the facial recognition/license plate tracking done in most states (U.S.), among many other things; privacy is a far-fetched illusion at best...

I'm all for trying new Roms that minimize background battery/data use, offer longer battery life, supporting devs who still work to make our devices fun to tinker with, but once I unlock the bootloader, I expect nothing on my device to be safe from intentional intrusion.

Even with a locked bootloader, anyone who REALLY wanted (and who could really do damage with) your passwords, pin numbers, and mobile banking info already has the tech to intercept your device's rf transmission.

For those looking to further secure their vulnerable unlocked device, it seems reasonable to make it a little bit tougher for others to encroach upon your privacy, but society is so technologically connected and intertwined, there are FAR larger privacy/tracking issues to worry about than a more secure ROM might help prevent.

A lot can be said about the "I have nothing to hide" crowd's position. If you don't play stupid games you don't have to worry about stupid prizes :p

Just one guy's opinion.

tl;dr

using a more secure custom Rom for better privacy/ data protection is like building a taller, stronger fence with no gate.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] Alekos:
Proton isn't for privacy or security (it does have a firewall and ability to disable sensors for any app). it's mostly for people interested in a more streamlined experience (better battery life, faster, more fluid etc). If you can, eventually try to install GrapheneOS with droid-ify and AuroraStore. You can install any app and if you need a Google service you can install Sandboxed Play Services.

They've made it so easy, it's silly. I still use Google Maps (not logged in and disabled 99% of the time), Gboard, gcam and gphotos all completely firewalled. And I block all google domains and a bunch of others through DNS using NextDNS.

It feels so good to not be sending anything to Google and if and when I do use a Google app like maps, I know exactly what's being sent (I use it in a different profile).

I know it sounds like a lot of work but there's amazing apps like insular that allow you to keep apps 100% segregated. Like for example if you want to use WhatsApp but not give it any access to your contacts, files, documents, it's really easy. and everything is on your home screen, no need to switch user profiles. notifications are seamless etc.

Just something to think about. I know a log of people say it's impossible because your entire life is online etc but there's a ton of people who've never created a FB, Twitter or discord account etc and have a real minimal online footprint. Its empowering. I'm not perfect and I'm not about being anonymous, but more on the privacy and security side of the spectrum.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] DontReuseUsernames:
I haven't found an app that doesn't work anymore. I hear some hostile banking apps won't, but I haven't actually seen them. Gcal sync works and contacts sync works now too.

I make an exception for Google, just because it's a lot of effort to degoogle. I simply try to reduce usage.

I still use Google Maps, contacts, calandar, Gmail. I don't mind Google having this info that much, as long as they're not selling it to data brokers and onto hackers. Gov agencies have access, but hopefully they're secure too.

What I like is the potential to keep contacts away from random 3rd party apps.

The thing is, what's the difference between GrapheneOS and stock if all the Google stuff is installed anyway?

I'm tempted to just go back to stock ,because I don't see enough advantage to GrapheneOS. They have quicker updates than stock and some other details, but none of that is in my threat model.

Main threats in my model are:

1) police officer takes my phone, asks me to unlock it, clones it, stores password manager data poorly, data leaks to somewhere, lose money or worse

2) lose my phone, phone gets blocked but then resold, hacker buys it, gets the data, sells it to a databroker, family get kidnapped

3) someone in a WhatsApp group sends me a dodgy pdf. WhatsApp has some exploit problem and I get hacked.

CalyxOS has the panic button for un installing a password manager for (1), but neither help with 2 or (3)
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] liggerz87:
That way you get a good weapon to plausible deniability lol
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] liggerz87:
I just run stock software no root or ROMs because I have no clue how to do it or try it I do have apps sideloaded that about it really
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] kevinireland11:
My battery gets me into the second day, I like the integration, and I don't care of my phone is spying on me, so? I enjoy the pixel experience that's why I bought it, just buy a phone that doesn't have sensors or a camera , or idk
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
My main problems with both these roms but especially Graphene is that they have no official or unofficial support for rooting it at all

I am sure that I would easily be able to have a magisk patched boot and signed with my own keys so I could still keep the bootloader locked

except everyone who asks about Magisk or root gets told not to use root with graphene and all about the negative security implications

All you have to do is search magisk and look through the channel history on their matrix room, which I did while hoping to find an answer to locking the bootloader with root, except, no useful answers were given by anyone that I could see

I have found one script on github that was written specifically to re-sign grapheneOS and patch it with magisk, but no mention of it to anyone who asked
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] 96carboard:
The problem with the position you are taking is that you haven't thought about the support nightmare that comes from having heaps and heaps of morons making crazy changes and ending up with crazy consequences. GrapheneOS is a lot more than just some half baked "rom" written by some half baked kiddies. They have actual commercial users and therefore need to minimize the crap they have to deal with, and maintain a very secure impression.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
That is not at all true and bull**** IMO

Every Single Rom basically gives you the standard warnings of potential damage to your device and how they are not responsible, it would be VERY EASY for them to just allow people to Root their phone but just not provide support to people who have and then ****ed something up because of root, To just have a disclaimer.

If you are competent with Sudo and don't try to do weird unusual things with Root then it's very unlikely it would cause any problems anyway.

I know I would be very easily able to replace the boot.img with my own custom patched and signed image so that I could Root Graphene OS and have a locked bootloader, except I can't work out how to insert my own bootloader before it gets signed in the building process

So Instead of doing it the easy way I have found this way to do it and created this guide https://xdaforums.com/t/guide-to-lock-bootloader-while-using-rooted-grapheneos-magisk-root.4510295/

I should not need to use AVBRoot to achieve what would be possible to do during the building process, If the Graphene devs didn't try to make it as hard as possible to root your phone and keep the bootloader locked

Allowing people to Root their phone but having a disclaimer and not provding support to those users will minimize the 'crap' they need to deal with
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] 96carboard:
I wasn't talking about the LAW. I was talking about TECHNICAL SUPPORT.

But if you want to go into the LAW... well it doesn't work that way either. Disclaimers are legally equivalent to a piece of dirty toilet paper.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
"it would be VERY EASY for them to just allow people to Root their phone but just not provide support to people who have"

I mentioned both, they don't need to provide support for people who have rooted, just as they don't already.

but simply allowing people to root the OS could be quite easy
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] 96carboard:
They're aren't stopping you, they're just recommending against it. Trivially easy, just patch the boot image with magisk like anything else.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
No, they are actively discouraging and doing nothing to allow people to root

it's not as simple as patching with magisk if you want to lock the bootloader, locking the bootloader with root could be a lot easier
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
This sounds more like Apple after iOS 15 release, not Google. Google lets you control system apps' permissions, and you can well know when your location or data is being accessed in the background.

I agree that grapheneos and calyx are great OSs when it comes to security and privacy, but I feel like using Android without Google services is a lifeless experience. Google services and the pixel experience are the exact reasons why I bought and love pixel phones.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
What makes you think Google, Graphene, or whoever, should pay their engineers and developpers..etc to help you root your phone?

Also, locking the bootloader with root is a nonsense concept. The main purpose of actually having a verified boot is to VERIFY if the files are original or tampered with.

If your bootloader is locked and allows your OS to boot despite having files with an incorrect checksum, this means locking your bootloader would be no different than keeping it unlocked.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] benleonheart:
Because goog stock software best software. Also, they've had my info since invite-only googlemail back in 2004. They know me better than I do 🥴
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
you do not understand, you can have a locked boot loader with root and a signed rooted boot image, I have gotten myself a working rooted and signed graphene install WITH The boot loader locked

it's possible, it's not hard, it could be a lot easier, It's very different to having the bootloader unlocked as it still provides you with security against tampering of the rom and installing unsigned updates
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
What's the purpose of such a thing ? Can you change any system file without having your phone stuck in a bootloop?
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
no you cannot change any system files, well you could potentially and risk the bootloop, but there are many advantages, I have proper ad blocking with Adaway

I have proper local backups of my apps which I control with SwiftBackup, I can use all the different useful apps which require root for full functionality, I prefer to have this freedom and control over my device.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
well this is why companies don't support rooting with a locked bootloader: most users want to customize and modify their system's functionalities, such as kernel modules, system apps, tweaking, hacking...etc

There are many non-root alternatives for what you said. For instance, you can use Adguard dns, or if you want extreme ad blocking, can do like I did and setup a pi-hole on a raspberry pi.

For apps, I use the cloud to backup my apps and conversation data.

The full freedom over your phone comes at a cost: an unlocked bootloader. That simple.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
I don't know how to explain this, I don't expect them to provide any support when it's rooted and locked

I expect it to be a do at your own risk and expect problems sort of thing

The thing I have problems with is how they make it so difficult to accomplish in the first place, How people like you simply Lie, and state things that are blatantly false

Why make untrue statements such as my freedom comes at the cost of an unlocked bootloader

I have already proven you wrong, I bought a Pixel phone specifically because of the ability to have my own signed roms and my own custom avb keys so that I am able to have full freedom, FULL Control over my Rom and still have a locked bootloader, Technically I could install a open source linux based OS like the Pine Phone runs, if I am able to sign it then I should even be able to lock the bootloader, doing these things should be easier

My previous phone, the OnePlus 6T and I have used the 8T also both allow you to lock the bootloader while having custom roms and ROOT, It's not a fantasy, It's not impossible.

Some Roms provide the ability to lock the bootloader while having root without any additional complicated setups required, like Jaguar, but it requires a donation for that feature. Graphene and other roms could easily have a rooted option that they don't provide support for, just letting us have the option of using it without me having to go through a complicated and hacky process to achieve it myself
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
Lie? Where did I lie? Chill bro, rooting your phone is extremely easy to do. But I don't think graphene would support rooting on a locked bootloader, since they're all about security and privacy.

Maybe other rom makers could. You can contact them. And when this feature implemented in some custom rom, you'll always live with the risk of being stuck in a bootloop. Maybe they should make different levels of root priveleges to protect users from a bootloop.

Anyway, I hope some developer gets interested in your idea.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
It's this statement that is false, it's really not that simple and I am just frustrated by how most people try to make people believe that opinion. when I searched the message history of the Graphene Matrix chat rooms I could see many similar messages where people were telling others that it's simply not possible to lock the boot loader and have root, but that isn't true. I do understand they don't want to support it, but they don't need to lie to people.

you are always risking your phone potentially running into issues and boot looping by using custom roms in general imo

I appreciate that you hope a dev gets interested
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
That statement means that If you want to root your phone, you have to unlock your bootloader. It's not a lie, it's not false.

But anyway good luck convincing any developer to put work into your concept. I'd love to see that happen.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
no, you are twisting the words of it, Your statement clearly implies you cannot have a locked boot loader and a rooted phone

it's like saying the cost of a custom rom is an unlocked bootloader

but the fact GrapheneOS allows you, and almost forces you to have a locked Boot Loader basically shows that to be false, So you really should not make false or misleading statements like the cost of root is an unlocked bootloader, Because you can Root and have a locked bootloader

This script makes it much easier https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mohamed.sakhiri:
Thanks for the script anyway, does it work on the stock rom ?
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
I think it's intended for the stock rom, I have gotten it to work with Graphene and it will probably work with most roms
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] spajk1990:
for people from unsupported countries where 5G and VoLTE doesn't work, does it work on graphene or calyx?
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] Bwyan Benton:
I bought and use pixel phones for the pixel experience. Not the graphene experience.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] MidnightDevil:
So, security and privacy for me isn't black and white, there's layers of data I'm willing to allow and personal things which are definitely not the kind I want public.

Generally speaking I appreciate the simplicity and contribution of using google software, because I also post reviews and use it quite a lot so its useful for me. This doesn't mean I agree with google privacy conditions, but it's more positive than negative for me.

Naturally I would want a secure system which what I allow is explicitly allowed by me, I also know there's lots of automatic mechanisms on google side in terms of image recognition and email scanning, in a way this is used for targeted ads and other technologies to help and aid other users in research, reviews, map data, etc. so I'm generally OK with this, provided it's kept safe for my eyes only except if I post or allow something to be public. After all choosing a pixel phone (google phone) was a conscious decision.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] 96carboard:
I can't think of a single thing that you can do with a "google" build where you give up virtually all of your privacy and security, that you can't do with a grapheneos build, where you maintain control of all of your data. In fact, the defining characteristics of a google build is that it is pretty plain AOSP + gapps. GrapheneOS on the other hand, is a secure AOSP with OPTIONAL gapps that are sanely sandboxed.

From where I'm sitting, the defining characteristic of a pixel is the fact that it is unlockable and directly supported by AOSP.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] Oswald Boelcke:
Moderator Announcement

Thread has been cleaned! Exceptionally I'd like to expressively address @Bwyan Benton and @96carboard. If you like to fight each other, be it so. I'm not able to prevent this. But I can prevent that it occurs on XDA, which is absolutely unacceptable and as you both well know in violation of the forum rules. Do it wherever you like but not here.

If you are addressed despite my guidance, please do not reply and simply but only report such a post. Any further attempts to commence personal fights or to start rants might lead to more severe consequences to the involved accounts. Please read my message as a preceeding but final friendly warning. Thanks for listening to me.

Regards

Oswald Boelcke

Senior Moderator
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] MidnightDevil:
Hum let me think for a sec, using google products for example? Google maps with all the reviews available? Street view? Rewards? I use google ecosystem so it makes sense for me to have it. I also share lot's of photos with my family, sure I could use onedrive and alternative maps app, but there's a reason I picked the pixel, because of it's integration with google without the need for double apps.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] mitchst2:
I'm running grapheneos and not planning going back any time soon. You can still use Google products if you wish but I've those set up in a second user account which I switch to as necessary.

About the only thing I really miss is recent apps where you can select text and images etc. Anything else I clearly didn't make use of because I can't think of anything else.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] ChongoDroid:
Some of the paid apps I have don't work on Aurora unfortunately or else I would. Battery life on calyxos is unreal.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] volcolm:
I really don't know what would work and what doesn't, and don't want the inconvenience (as simple as) if things break. Do apps that use the phone for 2FA stuff complain (banking, OneDrive, MS or Google Authenticator for example)? Haven't used custom ROMs in ages. No Netflix here.

But dunno what the deal is though with some, people have been degoogling and decrapifying Android for as long as "tiny" Windows has existed.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
I have been using 2 different banking apps without passing CTS profile check for safetynet

PayPal was working up until it updated recently, I hope they go back on that change

Most apps I use work without any issues, I don't use Google Pay

there are open source alternatives to Google Authenticator which you can use if the google one doesn't work, but I haven't tried it

I like GrapheneOS because I do make use of the google services but it runs them in a sandbox without elevated privileges

paypal works again after an update
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] DontReuseUsernames:
I was with CalyxOS until I needed to run something dependent on Google Play Services. After GrapheneOS came out with sandboxed Google Services, I switched to that, and haven't needed to switch back since.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] dvdivx:
I've ran Calyx rooted off and on. Problem is customization. For security customization it's great. For everything else not so much.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] silocybin:
TWRP is working for A13?
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] BROKEN1981:
Tin foil hat rom?
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] volcolm:
I find Louis insight interesting on this topic.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] griz.droidx:
I too bought my pixel 6 pro used right when the 7 was coming out. I bought it because graphene supports it. And calyx. I've been a microg user for years since my Galaxy s5 and I've got to the point that i usually only install microg when absolutely necessary.

There are besucoup apps on f-droid and other repos like Izzy. I've not moved to graphene (been thinking it'll be the ROM I'll hop to next) my only qualm are the custom features present in tried and true ROMs like CR Droid. (Damn i miss havoc)

There are projects out there that are bringing voice search on device. As in no data sent to a server. All those gapps fit together nicely and would be very handy. Like if I'm wrenching on a car underneath and want to quickly search something Google assistant would be handy.

Having said that in order to get most of that convenience to work requires way too many permissions for me.

I installed a gapps ROM about a year ago on a Moto g stylus. About 5 minutes in or right padt setup I got rid of it and went back to vanilla. Couldn't stomach it.

To each their own though. Choice is what makes ANDROID and LINUX the awesome OS'they are today. IMHO.

I truly see graphene in my very near future and I'll be back to post what i think about it. I just think it's not going to have many personalizations b like network speed inn status bar and such that i use regularly.

Edit: i forgot to add that I've been using nextcloud since seeing their apps show up in f-droid. When i found that i thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. This makes it much easier to go Google free. I run it at my house of course with my own domain and dynamic dns. It's really sweet. Of course synching and decsync would work as well for contacts, calendar and tasks. This method keeps all info on your device. Without dealing with your own cloud.

Have fun everyone. Again this is me. It may not be for you but again that's the beauty of Android and a pixel. Oh i bought the pixel 6 pro for it's camera too.

Too much info but maybe someone will get something out of it. Google isn't free which is what i tell everyone. There's a huge cost. Now even my medical records from my doctor visits go to a third party so all my anti Google may be for nil.
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] Timmmmaaahh!:
Well, that went somewhat sideways...
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] FireRattus:
I get this, I think strcat needs to step away from GrapheneOS completely

I have been banned from their forums and telegram because I tried to help people instead of lying to them

About rooting Graphene

and they also threatened me to remove the posts I made informing people How to Root Graphene from XDA

Which I refuse to do, they can try to take legal action if thats what they want
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] Timmmmaaahh!:
Is it just me or has Telegram become a rather toxic platform? I don't use it very often. Too many stickers 😁
[Google Pixel 6 Pro] GROOVYJOSHCLARK:
Better question would be, why would I run either OS? I get the same security with my own AOSP as I do with either ROM built by someone else. Personally I don't like either one of them so no thanks, I'll stick with my own flavor or a secure ROM I find/test that has the security I need, plus the options I desire with my phone!