yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] schaggo:
Similar for the comments/ratings. Give choices users can select, templates or similar or youll end up with 1-star ratings from noob which un-configured their devices with **** and thus the software didnt work: "fcuk sheet gay soft no work" while the software itself is just fine.

udK uses PDM in his ROMs. Its the same concept (download/update rep, select soft, download, auto install) as this software and works well. Have a look at that, dunno who initially programmed it. Also does OTA ROM upgrades.

Oh, edit: please guys stop it with the graphics...! This is getting ridiculous...

2nd edit: make it a graphically rich fullscreen software and it wont work on all devices. Think of Treo Pro 320x320, the incoming WVGAs 480x800, Omnia 240x400 and of course regular qVGA and VGA. I swear, keep it simple and it'll work.

3rd edit: why not store all the data including the apps in a database and let the user browse it interfacing only the database? It's not like the user wont be online, hes about to download something, I swear he'll be online...

And 4th edit: HTC Home Customizer was easy, it loads a html-page with the graphics put on it and links to the files. No magic behind that and surely not a package manager...

I am getting rediculous myself, 5th edit: same app http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=436331
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Heh. That's what inspired me to start this project. You go on Freeware Pocket PC and half the comments are from dimwits who can't Google for an answer. "How do I install a CAB", "Doesn't work, not valid Win32 application". If there are CABs and only CABs, people shouldn't have installation problems.

Maybe if I did something like this:

"Did the software install successfully?"

And block the rating if he answers no. Maybe I could unlock rating for installed applications only after x days of installation?

It's not the kind of things I'll have in the first versions. Maybe once it all gets stable, but not now. This is highly complicated and I'm going to have the aforementionned dimwits annoy the heck out of me.

We need an attractive UI if we want less experienced users to use it. It's a bit of marketing and at that point the UI is integrated to the application. If I went without it since the beginning it would have taken more effort to get there than right now. This allows me to write the rules for my own UI. In fact, the only non-label control there is is giving me more problems than the whole UI together.

No worries, I hate full screen software, no matter how well it works. This allows to switch applications and doesn't bug the UI when you install a CAB. As for different resolutions, this is not implemented yet. I'll work on this once everything else is down. Right now there's only portrait QVGA. I'll make something that fits every screen, just like Tippy. I might or not make different CAB files for different resolutions or make a wicked installer.

It works with an offline SQL database. This way it downloads the latest database on demand (depends on settings) and doesn't require any other download before the user chooses an application to install. Easier for me, easier on their data plan and easier for the server.

Yeah, but while I loved it, it was nowhere near the attracting user-friendly application we're working on. Also, Gecko works the same way but uses a different method (Information is stored in a table and loaded in the various fields on demand). This takes less space (because there will be a crapload of pictures and cabs) and requires less effort. Also, that's mostly how pocketpcfreeware.mobi works. It also inspired me ^_^

Thanks a lot for your contribution. You mentionned some really important points.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
I chose blue because... well simply because.

Since it's fully skinnable this won't change much. The icon didn't look great in blue.

By the way, Gecoh is the beta, Gecko is the release, okay? It will make things easier, I guess.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] schaggo:
Oh, I see, you're really putting some thought into this... :)

My sidekick wasnt against the UI design, rather the buttons, banners and signature pics which seem to multiply. Sure, spread the word, but dont do that in the dev-thread where everybody knows about the topic.

Nvm, I'm usually an angry person, my comments dont read themselves that well ;)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Oh. I think you're right. Also, the project is advanced enough to start marketing it ;). I just had a lot of free time while I was trying to understand SQL.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] bedaweed:
Off-topic but what do you want to go to college for? (what program)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] joel2009:
Not sure about that..... security wise and how would you know the rom fully transfered without errors? maybe available via sd card, and some kind of verification software. Its a long shot and could be done but how about getting the beta out first :)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Computer science, according to the Wikipedia translation from french. I learn programming, networking and other miscellany. I can almost certainly get a job at IBM considering the lack of programmers right now.

However I need Sec. 5 strong maths and I would need to do them this summer, way after the subscriptions. If I can show them I already got some experience they might let me in.

I doubt offering ROM upgrades is a good idea for a noob-friendly application. I'll leave it to other developers for now.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Categories

Could you help me pick a few categories?

I would like to keep the number of categories to a minimum and need a few suggestions. I was thinking about the following:

-Calculators and converters

-Calendar, tasks and contacts

-Hacks and tweaks

-Internet

-News and weather

-Today screen

-Skins and themes

-Utilities

I could add a place for tags too.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] kmax12:
release...

when can we expect a release, even if it is just a beta, of Gecoh?
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
I don't know. It's a lot of work and there's a lot of stuff happening this month. Also I got Far Cry 2 and a "new" computer.

I work on it every night for at least an hour so you can expect something quickly.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] htcfanboi:
i can do some graphic work for you... i was thinking about the idea myself... and made a web based idea.... check it out here...

www.nickshahidi.com

contact me if you need help with graphics
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] levenum:
Let me start by saying this is a pretty good idea.

If I may make one small suggestion though:

Part of the power of package managers is their ability to manage software versions and dependencies.

I realize this is something very difficult to do with non-free (closed-source) apps particularly without full developer cooperation, but I do have a couple of really simple suggestions:

- For version control make a rule that the version will be part of the cab name. This way there is no need to make any changes to the cab it self or to the app.

I don't think asking developers to stick to some simple naming convention that will help both them and users is too much.

- For dependencies: since apps usually come with all the dll's they need the only real dependency problem is probably .NET CF. Perhaps the database could include a field specifying which version of .NET CF (if any) a given app requires and then notify the user.

It would be better if the client software could check the version already on the device and only notify the user if download is needed (if your app is .NET there is probably a simple way to check the version of the framwork, but if not I am not sure how this could be implemented).

Good luck with your development!
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Yes, version checking is important. What I'd do is write the last installed version and compare it with the most recent noted version. I would only need developer to notify me whenever there is an update. This just needs some cooperation from the developers.

As for .NetCF, I'll try to make sure every user has it onboard.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] htcfanboi:
i just whipped these up... if you like them please say so... if you think they need work please say so .... :-)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
I like the design of the second one but I'll stick to my current layout. The teaser I provided is old and now it's a mostly complete UI.

Also I retyped the code and cleaned up the whole thing. The application will automatically get the database at the specified address if it's not found on the device. I also made a CSV to SQL DB converter. This way it will be easier for everyone to make databases with Excel, OpenOffice or even Notepad!There's a whole bunch of minor changes too.

Also here are two advices:

-Instead of finishing what you are doing while programming, leave in the middle of your stuff. This allows you to know where you were when you come back and if you forget errors will remind you.

-Internet Explorer is a piece of crap, so is Vista. Get Ubuntu with Firefox 3.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] l3v5y:
Ubuntu is good!

I'm going to take this oppurtunity to add some of my apps to your wonderful project!

FSD

0.27

http://freewebs.com/l3v5y/FSD/FSD.cab

(All in one CAB)

http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/l3v5y/FSD/?action=view&current=633503542570000000.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/l3v5y/FSD/633502913040000000-1.jpg

http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/l3v5y/FSD/?action=view&current=ss3.jpg

A full screen dialer program for WM5/6

0.27 has a redesigned layout, a context menu to clear the number screen, a context menu to send an SMS to number, a better config app including ability to customise text colour, some minor changes for stability, built in call generation (so only one exe, not two), and it supports landscape!

FREE
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] daspost:
I apologize for not reading the whole thread, so please ignore if this suggestion doesn't apply.

In addition to having users rate the apps, provide some mechanism for automatically updating the server/app list with the apps installed on the device or number of times an app is download/installed. This is harder for spammers to influence and gives you a better idea of which apps people really use.

If this data is kept, and users opt to make a portion of their installed app list public, it could provide a social aspect like delicious does for bookmarks. Users could browse the apps they've already installed and indicate which are private. Apps not publicly attributed to specific individuals would still count toward the install count.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] htcfanboi:
add a finance category take calculators and calendars and put them in utilities it saves space and easy to manage
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
We're moving this weekend so Gecko might not get much attention next week but there still is some progress. I always save around 30 minutes every day to work on it a bit.

Here are some recent changes I made:

-Added a progress bar when the application is starting.

-Improved the search feature dramatically. The finger scroll bar works almost perfectly.

-Linked some menus and forms to their buttons

-Other stuff

I'm aiming for a mid-november beta.

If you have any suggestions, post them! I love to read the new posts when I get back from school.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] :
Do you have settings for Gecko? If you have, you can create a configuration file that saves settings of previous Gecko release so that in the new release, people do not need to select the settings again ...

Are you creating a desktop installer or just cabs?
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
I'll start with a CAB installer. It's easier to make and use.

The settings are saved in the registry. I'll try to make sure they are not lost when uprading. If entries are created at runtime instead of at installation, will they be deleted when uninstalling?

ps: 400 lines of code and counting! I'm now connecting every form to work with 5-way navigation. Sadly enough it doesn't behave the same way on the device and on the computer so it's touchy.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Updates, progress and improvements!

I finally got some time to work on the project. Here's a list of updates sorted by form:

FRMMAIN (the first form displayed)

A "Loading" bar is displayed while the application is loading, making the thing seem shorter. Whenever I have time, I will create the controls dynamically so there's not the initial waiting (when the controls are loaded).

FRMLOADING (progress bar)

This form will now show up when a file is downloaded and when the application is starting. This way it won't just show an unresponsive UI while the files are downloaded.

FRMLIST (where the apps are listed)

Search, advanced search and "Show all applications" work. Since the database only gets the 6 applications displayed, listing results is snappy and reponsive. The touch scrollbar is almost completed.

FRMSETTINGS (the settings page)

Not much done recently. The UI is done but most controls are not wired to any function. The only thing it can do right now is set the server address (for updates).

FRMSEARCH (advanced search)

I created this form and it's almost completed. The 5-way navigation works perfectly on this form and it does its job well.

FRMINFO (the application info page)

The form exists but is not linked to the application yet. This the next thing I'll do.

FRMFEATURED (featured applications)

This has a really low priority on my list as you might guess. I'll keep this work for after the beta.

Database:

I added Full Screen Dialer to the database. There is now 11 applications listed and I must keep urging you to submit your applications.

Next changes:

-Allow for JPG and BMP screenshots

-Link FRMINFO to the rest of the application, making the application useable.

-Get the application ready for a beta release
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] l3v5y:
I've just had a thought... Would it be possible to link this, and http://touch-innovation.com/ together, IE, use the touch-innovation.com database of apps (finger friendly ones at least)?
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
I was thinking about making my own website (getgecko.com) and then make it a place to submit applications. The other way would be to work with freeware sites so they add a "Submit to Gecko" checkbox to their submission form.

All I would need to do is review the applications and approve or decline them.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Here's a little something!

Also, Internet Explorer is a f$%?&* piece of ?&(?

And I scratched my screen at some point in the week.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] :
UI P.O.V.

Ouch ... The UI is so ugly(sorry) ...

Did you forget the program icon ?

The scroll bar is too big and i don't think you need a scroll bar as you can scroll up and down with your fingers.

The top and bottom bar are huge. Anyways, Just my point of view, you can keep it.( I don't want you to retype the whole program again ... )
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
You're right about the scrollbar. However I had not planned such a scrolling system. I'll work on this later tonight. I'll also make the title bar smaller as you said. It will provide more space this way.

This is a lot of work, however. I know this is a lot to ask, but could you or someone else build a UI for me?

Here are the requirements:

-256 colors GIF or BMP files, preferably GIF (for speed)-Room for a title bar

-The main space (without title bar and bottom bar) must be divisible by 4,6 and 12.

-Finger-friendly bottom bar

I can make the necessary changes if they are needed.

Thanks a lot for your opinion. It's good to know what people think before an actual release.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] TheChampJT:
This sounds like a great idea!

Perhaps you could have a category of "Touch-Friendly" apps, once selected everything from TI would be in the list of items to download. Also including the available skins/themes from the site.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] kmax12:
stuff...

first, i agree that the UI needs some tweaking. However, that should not be a priority. I think the best thing would be to release a alpha version. Maybe that would spark some interest of people how might be able to aid in the design and of a better UI. I can do photoshop work, but that is it.

You said that you do not want to make this a full screen program, Personally i prefer full screen programs. Maybe make that an option??

It stinks that you only have 11 applications and i think we should try to brainstorm ways for you to add more. If any developers give me permission, i would fill out and submit a form for them. Maybe you could make a list of developers that have given you permission to included their apps and then any user, like me, could fill out the form for them.

quick question about scrolling. Is there only going to be a scroll bar? I would love to see a kinetic finger scrolling option similar to iContact.

Again i would love to see a alpha version and i am sure others here do also. (however if it isnt ready i understand). But maybe you could make a list of what you still need to complete before an alpha or beta is released. Also give a eta. You said you might release an alpha a couple weekends ago, obviosly that didnt happen so maybe an updated UI

Also, i love when you give updates so i can read them when i have free time. This thread is now the first one i read when i come to XDA.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] shadowline:
I agree. I would work on the base of it and not totally on looks as of yet, make it useful before beautiful first. That way the first release isnt a pretty app that doesnt do much. Even app2date has a simple style that gets it done. :P
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] :
Did you include the search feature? Is there any preview of the software's available ...

You can get a website at Ning.com it also has forums in it.

http://www.ning.com
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] Chainfire:
While I do think this is a good idea, there are some caveats (and I must admit, I have not read the entire thread).

We (makers/sellers of WMWifiRouter) are always willing to support an initiative like this, however... (I've discussed this with several people many times before, even contemplated building such a thing myself - never have the time, though :))

What will be the cost for a commercial app? In the opening post you mention $3. Is this one-time? Someone also mentions 10-15%. I can tell you right now, that is just not going to happen - at least not until the whole project is much bigger and backed by at least a ltd. Furthermore, for that price there'd have to be a lot you give back to the seller... at least hosting of the file, secure payments for all major CC's, etc.

What about updates? Will it support automatic updates like AppToDate does?

Besides, you ask for both donations and payment ...

Furthermore.. WM7 will include such a program.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] EnsconcE:
That does not mean it will be a good program ;). As it stands for now, when Microsoft opens a software market, they don't offer a whole wide range of products. It is often very limited. With that in mind, Gecko has potential.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Yes, it will be 3$ a year. I brainstormed shareware apps issues and a one-time fee will hit me in the back if the app gains momentum. 3$ once a year is horribly low for developers. If you compare this to PocketGear (40% of your profits, if I recall), you end up saving much more money, even with hosting and payment (assuming you use paypal).

Updates will be one of the core features I want to implement after the base is working. It WILL support automatic updates someday. It's a complicated task because, unlike AppToDate, we'll have to require as little effort as possible from developers to get more submissions. I quickly abandoned listing my application on Handango because of complicated stuff.

I'll complete my post later, got to go!
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] Chainfire:
Sure, 3$ per year is wholly reasonable. You could even set it to the price of one license of the commercial software. However, if you want to get more support maybe you'd be wise to make the first year free?

Stuff like PocketGear, Handango, that other one ("waditsname?"), can't say we're happy with any of them - and hence we don't use any of them either. What they DO have going for them, however, is that they provide the payment gateways, some of them provide the support, a well-known brand name, etc.

I thought AppToDate was very promising, and we support it, however I do feel like the developers have let us down quite a bit.

By the way we do use PocketLand, but on

our

terms. I.e., just a normal reseller contract. I'm not sure how many other developers use such constructs, but if done properly, both developer and reseller stand to make more money of it than the 40% rule.

AppToDate doesn't take much effort, but yeah it does take some. Perhaps a system where the developer just gives you an URL, and the webserver scans this URL every day or so, checking a CRC to see if a version is updated? Just an idea.

Updates are the most important feature, I would say.

Looking forward to it :)

Some other point, perhaps it would be wise to open source this project - that is of course, depending on what you want to ultimately do with it.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Okay, continuing...

-Donations are from anyone and can be made to developers while payments are mandatory (for shareware applications). 3$ a year is a fair cost even if we don't handle transactions. I will check if it's possible to work a donation button with PayPal Mobile.

-Maybe, but Microsoft is behind it so we can assume the following:

-It will cost a lot for shareware developers.

-It will be too complicated for freeware developers.

-Microsoft didn't do anything right since XP (IMOAMEE*)

*In My Opinion And Mostly Everyone Else's
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] iceman667:
Question about QVGA

When is the QVGA release ?

;)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
As soon as I am satisfied with the results (that certainly isn't in november!)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
I brainstormed the UI a bit and this is how it would be placed. A few things will be changed:

-Much smaller title bar

-Slightly smaller bottom bar

-No big scrollbar. Maybe an alphabet bar on the right? I'm having problems with the MouseMove event on the device so it makes things a bit harder.

Here's a draft (proportional sizes):

Any thoughts?
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] joel2009:
YES!!! getting closer!
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] :
Is it going to include a search feature?

You can get a website at Ning.com it also has forums in it.

http://www.ning.com
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] l3v5y:
Just a thought...

There are a lot of apps extracted from HTC devices floating around... Could these be added to the database? (I'm working on Blackstone, Opal, and Jade ones ATM).
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] N1c0_ds:
Only the most stable ones ;)
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] l3v5y:
Okay.

I'll probably PM you with some of them.
[Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General] :
New UI Idea !!!

What about this ? Just an idea ...

***The top bar is small while the bottom bar needs resizing ...***