yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[XPERIA X1 General] romancer:
FloorDust X1 Panels

floordust

i was wondering why they've been saying that the RAM is 384MB while its not even SE didn't mention anything about it !!!

how about the media panel: its useful to reach your media better than windows file explorer

in addition you will find panels to download on SE website don't forget that they opened the source for developers so in the coming few months you will see pretty much options
[XPERIA X1 General] floordust:
@romancer:

I don't have the X1 so I can't tell you about the media panel, neither did I test it.

Don't really know why SE said 384MB. I know they will release new panels and so but still, I find them rather useless! If you've used WM before you know that speed has always been an issue and activating 9 simultaneous panels will need a lot "juice". And even if it's capable, why do you want active panels running in the background taking memory when you just can access them whenever you need by just clicking the start menu or having it as an icon on a panel (similiar to spb shell).
[XPERIA X1 General] romancer:
well my point of view the panel will help us (old windows mobile users) to navigate the device in a better way even better than the Spb Mobile Shell where it gives many ability to customize the Today Screen its like having many desktops on the top of windows mobile and every desktop contains many small icons or indicators ...etc

any way if the RAM confirmed to be only 256 this will really slow the device in general like what happened in Diamond and thats why Raphael came with 384 with dedicated MB's just for the graphix

X1 in general is amazing with its external material and the Screen is brilliant with a great camera as well as the navigation methods, the Keyboard is difficult just when you first use the device BUT when you get used to it you will love it

the illumination lights are cool to indicates any missed calls or messages ..etc finally the battery life support longer usage of the phone :)

so my next phone is X1 replacing my Tytn II
[XPERIA X1 General] Magger:
You people need to stop thinking the difference between 256 and 384mb is related to the speed of the device. The additional ram will let you run additional applications at the same time but because this is maxed by WM6.1 anyways and I doubt you'll be running 30 apps at the same time...

Basicly the additional RAM was pretty much useless in the first place so people should stop talking about it, it honestly doesnt matter
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
Exactly, the free ram on the device is more than enough
[XPERIA X1 General] Magger:
Youre one of the few on this forum who've got a X1. Could you please record a movie of you showing off the speed of the panel switching (which you said was slow), show off the Spb Mobile Panel (speed of switching between those 3 menu's) and the speed of switching from landscape to portrait. Throw in as many content as you want along with the above.

If you say the device is fast, outside the panel switching, people should see it so all the whining can stop.

And why would people care the panel switching is slow? It's not supposed to be used every minute, it's supposed to introduce 9 different interfaces/shells/etc. Out of the box it only offers the default WM and the Spb Mobile one and all the other panels are a bit useless, but I'm confident TouchWiz and TouchFlo3d etc will eventually be converted into panels aswell.

As SE has stated several times, that was the whole intention of having 9 panels, so you could have 9 different interfaces instead of being forced to use the one the manufacturer supplied you with or being forced to hack your phone to install a new one.
[XPERIA X1 General] msalmank:
I second that...
[XPERIA X1 General] ferraripassion:
Is yours a proto?
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
No its final retail
[XPERIA X1 General] ferraripassion:
Contact , locked?
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
No bought unlocked
[XPERIA X1 General] romancer:
well it matters because the percentage of the usage ram space with the prototype of X1 was almost 75% which means whenever you run 4 applications in the same time the device hang and you have to soft reset it

anyway, for the time being it might not matter but for the future it matters and you will remember my words here :)

a small example is the difference between the Diamond and Raphael .. the performance of the device when you run many applications is noticable
[XPERIA X1 General] ferraripassion:
Was asking you about the proto , because all the Sony Xperia proto were released in Sweden and were up for grabs.
[XPERIA X1 General] ferraripassion:
Also does your IMEI start with 35?
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
I really think the panels is a useless idea. I mean that is the point of winmo. You dont need to hack winmo to get a different interface. Installing a new today plugin is not a hack. There are tons of things you can install to change the way winmo looks. I think there are so many better things sony could have done to improve the winmo experience.
[XPERIA X1 General] romancer:
well i disagree with you the panels is still new give it a time and you will see innovative ideas from external developers soon

besides have you seen the media panel looks exactly like PS3 or PSP menu
[XPERIA X1 General] surur:
I agree. Instead of making something coherent (like touchflo3d) they went the opposite schizoid direction, which I dont think anyone was asking for.

Surur
[XPERIA X1 General] Magger:
This is luckily untrue. You've plenty of RAM left when WM6.1 is loaded.

So? You dont have to use the options, dont, if you dont want to.

The good thing is, you can have 9 difference interfaces at the same time without needing your pc to hack or install other interfaces whenever you want to change your interface on the X1.

Personally I don't think I'll use any other panels than the Spb Mobile Shell panel and the Media panel (and maybe others which will result from the panel contest of SE).

That doesnt stop this device from being the smallest, best looking and fastest WM6.1 device with a slider keyboard out there.
[XPERIA X1 General] romancer:
well i've seen that in X1 prototype where it was loaded with 256 and the previous ROM not the final they did alot of work to enhance the performance BUT 256 is not enough at all for the future applications ... then why Raphael and the coming top HTC products comes with 384 if 256 is enough ?
[XPERIA X1 General] Insaneboy:
Which exactly are those?

I could be wrong, and if so - i apologize.

But Raphael aka Touch Pro has 288 RAM

The coming top HTC products -

Touch HD - 288 RAM

G1 - 192 RAM

And it's unknown how much RAM that WiMax one will have.
[XPERIA X1 General] romancer:
Raphael,Touch Pro, and Touch HD has 384MB where 96MB is dedicated for graphix and TouchFlo

wait for Tytn III which will be announced soon and it will be similar or even better

and here am talking about Windows mobile devices
[XPERIA X1 General] Insaneboy:
Well, we do know that Xperia has a 3D graphic chip, but no idea how much MBs are dedicated to it. In any case - i doubt that its 0 :P
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
When you need more ram than available in the Experia the phone will be obsolete long time ago :)

I have a Touch Pro and a Xperia and that is very little difference in free ram after a reset. So stop talking about the ram - its more than enough for the device - period! :)
[XPERIA X1 General] Magger:
To quote myself;

Youre one of the few on this forum who've got a X1. Could you please record a movie of you showing off the speed of the panel switching (which you said was slow), show off the Spb Mobile Panel (speed of switching between those 3 menu's) and the speed of switching from landscape to portrait. Throw in as many content as you want along with the above.

If you say the device is fast, outside the panel switching, people should see it so all the whining can stop.
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
yeah but I got nothing to record with, my Touch Pro is still in the rapairshop, I sold my Diamond two days ago and I don´t have the record video app on my dusty Iphone :) And my videorecorder har my sister borrowed
[XPERIA X1 General] Magger:
Try to get your videorecorder back for an hour or something :D
[XPERIA X1 General] Insaneboy:
Use a complicated set of well positioned mirrors and Xperia to record with :P
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
Sounds far to tricky after a lot of beer :)
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
She is in Spain now so it will take som days to get it :)
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
Earlier in the thread I asked, and the one who has the X1 let us know that 150mb of RAM are free at boot. This is a very large number. My tilt only has 50mb, and I can run as many programs as I want. No "out of memory" errors with opera running several tabs and flash, tomtom, pocket player and other apps all running at the same time. A very large app may take up to 10mb to run. The majority dont even use a meg. The RAM is fine.

Yes I have seen the media panel and it is cool. What is the point of it being a panel? The exact same thing could be accomplished with just a regular app that I can launch out of the start menu. The fact that it is a panel makes it worse. Now I can't use the media browser if I dont want to use the panels. As cool as any panel may be, the same thing can be accomplished with a regula app or today screen plugin. I have as many plugins and apps as I want. I can only have 9 panels.

Like I said, you don't need to hack anything and you never need a PC to do anything. I already have 4 interfaces on my today screen. How? SPB pocket plus gives me a tabbed today interface. Or I could use wisbar advanced desktop and do many other different things. I know I dont have to use the panels. But now I have to miss out on features like the media browser and fm radio? These things should be regular apps, not panels. And I never said anything about this not being the coolest device out. I still think this is the best device out there and I still will get one. I am just saying that SE wasted lots of time and took forever to release all because they were developing this IMO pointless software. There are much better things they could have done. There are many parts of the OS that do need a makeover. How about a nice looking cascading and finger friendly start menu with kinetic scrolling? How about a nicer task switcher that replaces the window title space with a dropdown task selector. How about a better wireless network connection utility. Panels are just a flashy overlay over the already easily customizable today screen.
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
...And the winner is .... INSANEBOY!!!!:D
[XPERIA X1 General] Magger:
You dont have to use the panels. You fail to read the most important thing;

[the fact you dont use the panels] That doesnt stop this device from being the smallest, best looking and fastest WM6.1 device with a slider keyboard out there.
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
Hi romancer,

I 100% agree with you. RAM is the "arena" of a computer is where everything happens. Also I believe it does matter even TODAY with the current apps maybe a little bit but soon you wish you have more RAM.

Allow me to compare with a computer: Where static things like Programs and Data are in a hard disk. When a program runs it loads all the stuff from the HD like tables, graphics, inputs etc. in the RAM a volatile area where all the action happens.

When the system runs OUT RAM IT DOESN'T HAVE to get locked, the computer just moves stuff out the RAM to open room for the next stuff and when is done has to go back to get the stuff back into RAM. That slows down the performance THAT'S WHEN YOU WISH YOU HAVE MORE MEMORY.

For instance in a Mobile you can have 1GB of map data on microSD for the GPS. Obviouly it does not fit in RAM. The speed to display those maps will be significantly faster with 384MB than 256 or 128MG because it does not have to make so many READS commands to bring back and forth the map data.

Bottom line The amount or RAM does matter when Apps need a lot processing data or multitasking many Apps.
[XPERIA X1 General] msalmank:
Ok guys... Here is how it goes.

256 MB on the device is confirmed by most. Users have reported that they have over 200 MB free on the device. So this to me means that the 3D chip definitely has dedicated memory to it.

Is that dedicated memory 128 or less? Or is it not even there? we'll just have to wait and see.

For those who say that panels are slow at times and thus there must not be any dedicated memory; says who? dedicated RAM does not confirm that everything will be fast, but it only implies that it will be a lot better.

Bottom line... WAIT FOR THE FINAL DEVICE'S ENTIRE SPECIFICATIONS! Or wait till someone reviewing it can clarify with screenshots or something.

I still say that other than the Accelerometer, this phone is completely awesome.

Best regards.
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
Did you even read what you just quoted? I clearly stated that I know I don't have to use the panels. The problem is that if I dont, I cant use the fm radio, media browser, ect. These should be PROGRAMS not panels.

I know that. I clearly stated... Why do I bother? If you didnt read my other post, what makes me think you will read this one?
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
More RAM will NOT speed up the device. Period. If you already have 150mb of RAM free, and you add another 128mb, the device will not get magically faster. As far as your map example, let take tomtom. Tomtom will occupy about 6mb of RAM. Yes. SIX. Just because you have 384mb of memory, tomtom is not going fill it all up with maps. So whether you have 64mb of RAM or 64TB. Tomtom will run just the same, as long as it has 6mb to run in.

As far as your computer example, WM does not run the same way. On your PC, when you run out of RAM, your computer uses hard drive space to "pretend" you have more. This is called the pagefile. When you run out of real ram, the OS must start swapping stuff between ram and the hdd. That is why it slows down. WM does not use a page file. When you run out of RAM you are just out. You must close something.

Yes of course the amount of RAM matters, but amount of RAM does not affect the speed. More RAM just means you can run more programs at the same time without running out. If you get very low on RAM (<5mb) then your device will begin to slow down. If you run all the way out, the system will force something to close. I assure you though, with 150mb free at boot, you will not run out.
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
200mb? I heard two people say 150mb. Wow 200mb is a lot. My tilt has 128mb of RAM, and even with the cleanest junk free ROM, 60mb are free on boot. 200mb seems a tad high.
[XPERIA X1 General] msalmank:
Someone here in this thread said 200 MB. Another said around 180 (though that was over a private chat with a friend)

I'm guessing it depends on the no. of panels you have loaded up, as well as the type of panels you are running. And i am pretty certain that it has dedicated memory for the 3D chip as well... hopefully we'll know for certain real soon.
[XPERIA X1 General] Blowfish64:
One question on the X1. How many hard buttons does it have? My TyTN II has 10 (PTT, green, red, WM, ok, IE, Messaging, left softkey, right softkey, camera) plus scroll wheel and d-pad, and I use all of them. How many does this have?
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
Heh. Not many. A disappointment for me too (I have a tilt right now too).

Left/Right softkeys, panel button, ok button, answer key, hangup key, up, down, left, right, enter, optical directional pad, volume up, volume down, camera.

There used to be an additional button on the left side, but SE decided we didn't need it. Out of the box, only the function of the left and right softkey can be changed. I hope someone with the X1 will try AE button plus and/or SPB Pocket Plus to see if we can grab control of all the buttons. If all the buttons can be fully controlled for press and press n' hold then I guess there is only really one less than the kaiser. Anyone with an X1 care to try AE BP?
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Haha, uhh, right. If 50MB of RAM was enough, all of these phones wouldn't come with 256-288.
[XPERIA X1 General] pf:
It is just a small world, you can move with 50 MB free RAM.

I have 80 MB free at my G900 if it is naked (without 3rd party software). With my software it is about 70 MB after Softreset. Using some software it goes down to 40 MB. And if you start a navigation software you see,that often this should be more free RAM ;)

One cannot have enough RAM and if WM7 comes next year -who knows, how much this eats? :rolleyes:
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
It does matter. -Romancer point was that RAM it does matter today and in the future when WM 7 or other OS come along. I agreed and elaborated so my bottom comment was: yes it matters today for programs with large a mount of data and even more so with multitasking.

If people are runing wigets then it doesn't matter you can run dozens. But serious desktop professional applications are here and more are coming in the near future. So you are better off with a device with a lot of RAM today than to replace it too soon.

Besides it is not as simple as just using ram enough to fit the size of the program. There is more to it. After loading, the first thing the program does is to gather the system information to find out what resources are available and then reserves RAM space accordingly to bring into ram whatever is needed from the OS and from the program data plus working space to massage data and screen images. And in most cases the reserved ram is Dynamic so it may release or grab more memory as needed. The more RAM the BETTER the performance.

Mobiles are closing the gap with computers. So just around the corner we see coming a lot of huge and complex productivy apps hungry for RAM runing simultaneously and dynamically getting data from external devices. RAM will matter not only to be able to run but to run fast.

Mobile RAM needed is growing exponentially it took about 10 years from the 8MG devices to the 64MG and and only 3 or 4yrs for 128MG and just in the last 12 month or so it doubled to 256MB. -The 512MB and 1GB are already in the drawing table and production lines.
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
RAM is volatile. It's erased when is turned off or reset. Programs are not stored in RAM. RAM is the working area for the programs.
[XPERIA X1 General] ztealth:
does the xperia have the ugly generic calculator and calendars of winmo?
[XPERIA X1 General] Rontysee:
@ easycure 1974

Congrats for your x1.

This is my first post here but i have been following all the discussions here.

I am curious to know certain things which u'll be able to answer.

1 Does your x1 have stereo speakers or mono?

2 Can you zoom in opera browser with the volume keys?

3 Did you try out the sound quality with bluetooth headphones?

4 While on a call, can you record 2 way conversation using the notepad?

5 Did you try out applications like the coreplayer, resco explorer 2008 etc.

6 Are you planning to install manila 2d? Bcoz xperia is the only phone right now which can run panels, manila 2d and spb shell together and you can switch between them with ease.

Thanks in advance.
[XPERIA X1 General] stesa:
I wrote 50 Mb of FREE RAM ! go in the diamond room and look for someone who complain for his "poor" 50 Mb of FREE RAM please
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Oh you're right! I haven't heard ONE complaint about TouchFlo3D being sluggish on the Diamond, never!

Are you kidding?
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
its rather sluggish on the Pro sometimes too - TF3D just sucks :) Nice too look at for some days then it is just slow and irritating -and yes I have applied all tweaks :)
[XPERIA X1 General] easycure1974:
1 and 3 - I haven´t used it for music yet so I can´t really answer that yet. But I can only see one speaker so I guess it is mono

2 - Yes you can zoom with the volumekeys

4 Haven´t tried that but I don´t think it works

5 Yes, have it loaded with apps, Resco Explorer, Resco Photoviewer Pro, Core, Ewallet, Agenda One, Phatnotes, Phatpad, TimeTTracker, Chronos, SPB Traveller, SPB Insight, MemMaid, SPB Backup, Garmin XT, Vito Audio Notes Touch, Magicall to name a few :) And they all work perfect.

6 No manilla on my phone, don´t like it - it doesn´t give me anything over Mobile Shell that I want
[XPERIA X1 General] nap007:
I want to throw my 2 cents here about the memory debate

1. how much memory does Diamond have? 192 MB? correct

2. among those, how much is being dedicated to the gpu? 64 MB? correct

3. now Touch Pro basically have the same chipset and gpu, so I can't believe you guys always forget the rule above, yep, 64 MB of TP's RAM is being dedicated into it's gpu also, so that's mean TP actually only have 224 MB of system RAM

4. I tend to agree that SE can be considered lying about the final RAM configuration in X1

5. allocating a 128 MB of RAM into X1's gpu is not so logical since even in the days of geforce 2 desktop gpus, gpus with 64 MB of RAM already support and capable of displaying 3D up to 2 MP (1600*1200) display! It will be hard for me to believe that all these smartphones of this generation need more than 64 MB of VRAM, since they would only render 'primitive' 3D apps (which is quite equivalent to 3D PC games in the geforce 2 era).
[XPERIA X1 General] stesa:
tf3d can be slow even on a giga of RAM
[XPERIA X1 General] Mr.Sir:
Eyy, guys. My Touch Pro isn´t slowwhen usingTF3D, I applied the tweaks and now it is perfect. Even looking through photos in the phototab is fluid.

Glappar ditt tangentbord på din X1 som på TP? Det glappet stör mig :(
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
:) You guys really don't read. I said it does matter. What I said is that if you already have 150-200 mb free, an additional 128mb will not speed the device up. I guess that is the trouble with long posts. Nobody reads them.

Stop speculating how programs and the OS. I KNOW how they work. I assure you, TomTom will not use more RAM because more is available. Tomtom will run the exact same way on a device with 50mb and one with 500mb.

I repeat for the last time. More RAM will NOT speed it up. Period. If you want to understand why, read my post. More RAM will just eat more battery. 150mb is plenty. The thing has enough effing RAM to run windows XP. I am telling you from years of programming and using experience that 150mb of free RAM is plenty. Believe me, I am the first one to complain when there is not enough RAM. So stop speculating how you think things work because I know how they work and it will be fine.
[XPERIA X1 General] Jabe:
How about when wm 7 comes out? will it still be enough? I am asking here not provocating. When/if I buy this thing it will for the next 2 years and would like to know as much as I can about the future possibilities.
[XPERIA X1 General] JKingDev:
Of course. We are all here for learning and discussion

Of course, no one can tell the future so I can't say anything with certainty. IMO, I think 256mb will still be fine. Yes, most new MS OS's usually need more RAM, but it is always the low end devices that can't run it. If you buy the computer on the market with the highest specs right at the time before the new OS comes out, chances are it will run the new OS great. There are WM6 devices that only have a total of 64mb of RAM. This device is on the high side with 4 times as much. Once loaded, Windows Mobile 6 is using about 40 mb of RAM. I doubt this number will do more than double, if that.

And yes, that was not a typo. about 50. But you say if 50, why is only 150 to 200 free at boot? Look at the screen shot posted here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2760379&postcount=48

Total RAM is only 200 not 256. Where did that 56 mb go? It is reserved for the linux operating system that the other processing core on the MSM chipset runs to manage the wireless radio. And of the 200mb left, 40 give or take goes to the OS. The rest goes to the panels, programs and today plugins loaded at startup.

easycure1974, do you think you could let us know how much RAM is free after a reset with no panels loaded? If it isnt too much trouble. Thanks!