yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[XPERIA X1 General] Tigershark42:
Erm, can it be about the handsets again? Cheers.

Just wanted to say, one thing that noone seems to bring up in the correct context is about a flush screen being a GOOD thing. Not so straightforward. It will look prettier as a matter of preference to some, it will be very very slightly easier for using with a finger (IMO the difference is negligable). However, when you are paying so much for a PDA like this, it should last a long time. I know they try to coat screens with all sorts of protective layers but sooner or later it is likely to be the case that you will scratch the screen :( So which will scratch easier? The large, hard to miss flush screen of the Touch HD, or the slightly smaller, slightly recessed screen of the metal-cased X1? It would look awful to ruin either screen with a gash across it, but the HD will be more susceptible IMO.

IMO it is too fussy to compare both handsets in terms of software. If you're a member here, then chances are you will be one to customize the device anyway, so you will sooner or later have a browser you want (Opera, Firefox, Skyfire etc), UI you want (TF3D on both someday? Panel UI on both someday?) or maybe even- both will be upgradeable to WM7. So on the software front, they will both be excellent after some installations, I suppose.

One thing which may be worth mentioning is the fact that the X1 uses a 3.5mm audio out, like the HD, but somehow you can use a handsfree kit with that aswell (it comes in the retail package). That might be a plus for some. Its basically hardware keyboard against slimmer device as the main hardware issue though.

I am so far planning to get the X1, which would be my first WM device (I know, I'm a newbie here >D, I mostly just stick to Esato). So one concern I have is whether or not the 65k colours will be too noticeable?
[XPERIA X1 General] Kloc:
Go on your computer right click desktop and change your color scheme to 16bit color (true color). Can you notice the difference? That's what the color depth on the Xperia will be.
[XPERIA X1 General] msalmank:
That makes two of us... (newbies to WM world)
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Don't start freaking out about "oh I have my computer on that setting and it's not that noticeable", it's most noticeable in different shades of the same color... That's why this example works so well.
[XPERIA X1 General] hotrod101:
Good example
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
Does that mean that you are here to make enemies?
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Umm, I'm not so sure if I can comprehend being someone's "enemy" based on an internet forum talking about cell phones. Let's put this into perspective here, many people act like it's a huge part of life... WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CELL PHONES. It's not life or death, it's not win or lose, it's a god damn phone. I like the whole community idea, but I don't expect you to come over for my barbecue on Saturday nor do I expect you to put me on your personal hit list... I just want to learn, want to teach, and by the end of the day everyone on here knows something they didn't know this morning.
[XPERIA X1 General] temka:
Screen

The screens of BOTH devices are actually capable of showing more than 64k colors. Read the full specs on the manufacturers' sites and you will see.

The reason that "64k" appears everywhere is that the OS WM6.1 is not capable of showing more. It will be improved in WM7, but not yet.

and please, FFS, stop that flame about businessmen etc. You're like kidz..

PS: I live in Sweden and will go to the stores tomorrow to put my eager hands on one of the X1's :) Will see, look, feel...

PPS: is there anyone who could give a more or less *professional* answer to the following questions:

1) If two screens are having the same pixel resolution but different physical size - do they consume equally much energy?

2) if not - how big is the difference? If HD has a ~25% bigger screen (measuring area) will its energy consumption be 25% (!!!) more?
[XPERIA X1 General] quickm:
ever heard of a technique called dithering? Of course 32 bit is superior to 16 bit but the example is far from what a real hand experience would show you on your screen. As WM is not capable of more than 16 bit the discussion is obsolete and remember a greater color depth would need even more memory...
[XPERIA X1 General] Tigershark42:
WTF!? Neither manufacturer states this. If you could provide a link to prove your point, then that would be great :)

Here is what I get:

http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/specifications/x1?cc=gb&lc=en

http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=64796
[XPERIA X1 General] xmoo:
Xperia X1 for the win!
[XPERIA X1 General] Kloc:
Is it bad I can still see lines in the 32bit and 16bit of that picture? The 32 bit just has them closer together. Actually hurts my eyes.
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
The whole point of that illustration, being the same color of different shades, is to exaggerate the separation of the shades so you realize just how much difference there is. Some people apparently don't understand that, even though I specifically said it won't look the same FUNCTIONALLY on your screen.
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Are you slow? Did you see right under the picture where I said this example intentionally exaggerated the difference between 32 bit and 16 bit colors, and it wouldn't look that much different on your computer screen? Okay, now, with the fact that I'd already said it won't look the same on your desktop, explain to me why you felt the need to parrot my words.
[XPERIA X1 General] dazza9075:
thats an intresting question, with desktops the DPI doesnt change, the screen gets larger as the native pixcel count gets higher. But i guess, froma physics point of view, if you take the energy needed to power say 10 pixcels and moved them apart it wouldnt draw any more power (apart from the slight amount lost through longer distances) but what i would imagin would increase the power consumption is the backlight, the device would need to have a larger backlight, 25% larger as you say, so at least for that part of the device, it would draw more power, but the screen its self, my guess is it wouldnt draw any more
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
That's what I was thinking, the backlight would have to be bigger. I think you'd see minimal differences though, no major effect from having a slightly bigger screen.
[XPERIA X1 General] Kloc:
Actually I don't think it's that much exaggerated. Lol turn your sreen to 16 bit and look at it. They almost look equal on boths sides.
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
Yes, I agree. The number of colors decided by the hardware but limited by the software

This only an educated guess. The total number of pixels are the same. 384000

The power consumsion should be the same.

Very important for the Xperia fans is that because the diffrence in size the Xperia has a 50% sharper more detailed screen than the Touch HD because of the density of pixels. For instance:

Xperia 3.9 sq inches, 96898 pixels per sq inch--- ppi 311 pixels per inch

T. HD. 6.3 sq inches, 60202 pixels per sq inch--- ppi 245 pixels per inch

That is 50% more better and ppi than Touch HD.
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Well, it's not exaggerated left to right side, I meant the difference is much bigger in that example than on your desktop. It magnifies the difference, I guess that'd be a better way of saying it.
[XPERIA X1 General] sev7en:
Maybe you have to look at here, about the CPU:

HTC Touch HD: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7201a

SE X1: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200

The SE core is 2 years old ^_^
[XPERIA X1 General] temka:
CPU's

sev7en no offence, but I think you really have to fetch a piece of chalk, go to the blackboard and write the following phrase 1000000 times: "I will use Google before posting irrelevant stuff"

- Yes, a7201a is a newer platform than a7200.

- No, it does not offer MORE functionality

- Yes, it does offer LESS functionality (VGA video recording @ 30 fps is absent in a7201a)

- Yes, it is actually exactly the same platform technology and the reason why they have this number difference is some quarrel between Quallcomm and US regulations and laws concerning 3G (do not remember exactly so will not post anything)

- google knows...
[XPERIA X1 General] dazza9075:
Yes as we mentioned the actual pixels are the same over a different area, however, as also mentioned the backlight would have to be 25% larger otherwise the edges would be dark, so whilst the screen would draw a minimal increase of power the backlight would have to draw more power, potentially 25% more than the current backlight,

Note im not saying the whole device draws 25% more because the rest of the device would "should" be the same, so it all depends on how much the back light draws then add on 25% to that figure then plus that to the rest of the device....i think....
[XPERIA X1 General] sev7en:
temka, I no offence, be sure ^_^. I am speaking about the CPU power, and it is not the same. The newer CPU has more HP than the older.

P.S: I have no so time to write all that sentences! :P
[XPERIA X1 General] mlinz:
That isn't true at all. The SE X1 has a 528mhz processor in the a7200 and the HTC Touch HD has a 528mhz processor in the a7201A... Both offer essentially the same features.

Saying one is faster than the other is completely false.
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
2nd. I was laughing my ass off because I thought he posted that because it says "32 bit", and he was thinking that a 32 bit processor meant 32 bit color. :)
[XPERIA X1 General] fattrucker:
If Pinguino1 aint allowed to your barbecue on saturday can I come instead pls ? Black93300ZX

P.S. Watcha avin ? Ribs ? I just love a good rack o' ribs ;)
[XPERIA X1 General] kersh:
anyone knows if the "graphic card" of the x1 is better or have more 3D power for future games?

I read some things like is an dedicated ati and the card of the HD is on the 7201A processor
[XPERIA X1 General] Lord.Bachus:
Both these chipsets have the same CPU core.... ARM1136EJ-S

My 3 year old PDA with 624 Hhz Intel CPU is even faster then these things.

And all the same abbilities... They are identicall in performance and feautures.

All we need to know which phone uses what feautures...So which one uses the 3D part of the chipset ?
[XPERIA X1 General] guap:
lol, tell me about power consumption... or embedded instruction set... You cannot compare intel PXA and qualcomm chispet, whould be te same as pretend that intel P4@4ghz be better of a core2duo @ 2Ghz
[XPERIA X1 General] Lord.Bachus:
I don't know about that so sure...

My Dell sure still feels faster then my Tytn 2
[XPERIA X1 General] guap:
then must be something wrong with you tytn :)

anyway, I suppose your dell doesn't have a phone receiver in standby (regardin power consumption and battery duration)
[XPERIA X1 General] jalilasghar:
In general I would tend to agree that the X1, with it's metallic construction, does look imposing, but, having read another blog somewhere regards the X1's NON-FLUSH screen, for me at least, that drops the Xperia several notches down the rung of sumpremacy and IMHO, the Touch HD takes the crown!

I say this because of having and using a Tytn-II for a while and then ditching the thing because I truly hated the non-flush screen on it; and I'm certainly not going to buy another phone with the same characteristic again! Shame. Instead, my money is going towards the HD sometime soon.
[XPERIA X1 General] XavierGr:
As others said, it all sums up to preference.

I feel the need to have a hardware keyboard and not a weird touch "virtual keyboard", also I don't want a large screen in the same resolution.

Other people have completely different opinions though, some don't feel the need of a hardware keyboard and prefer a large screen to press easily with their finger.
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
Hi alilasghar,

I always said, go with your instincts and no regrets.

Also I believe that preferences go first than needs. No logic there but

that's the way it is.

More important for you is that the HD will never be released in USA.

(so if you are in EU, n o probl) HTC says to late for release they will

way for the next "better" phone.

Anyway, I have used recessed screens for at least 10 years, never have

a touch problem or a dust problem.

I read in another post an owner of the X1 and the Pro saying that the Xperia

touch is more responsive than the Pro because the extra

layers makes it less responsive.
[XPERIA X1 General] Jabe:
what in a (non)flush screen?
[XPERIA X1 General] Pinguino1:
That's what I meant, recesed = non flush
[XPERIA X1 General] Jabe:
i know, that's what you meant :)

But what is one and what is another? I don't know the difference.
[XPERIA X1 General] XavierGr:
Recessed screen = where the screen is encased in a sort of "trench". That way the screen is protected when the unit faces downwards, because it won't have direct contact with a solid surface (the frame protects it). The disadvantage is that you can't easily touch precisely along the frame or its corners (without a stylus) and it might get dusty in these places.

Flush screen = where there is no frame to the screen. The screen is not "sunken" thus it has direct contact with a solid surface when it faces downwards (that can lead to scratches). The advantage is that it is more easy to touch the corners with your finger because there is no frame to get in between.
[XPERIA X1 General] Jabe:
Thank you for the explanation.

I actually prefer recessed screen cos I am kind of paranoid when it comes to screens - on any gadget. I always use screen protector which must look kind of wierd on flush screen. Just my 2 cents.
[XPERIA X1 General] Insane Devil:
Nah mate, IF u use good quality ones, they just dont stand out at all.

I am using JAVOEDGE's screen protector on my Touch Cruise and its just not noticable at all, perfect fit and finish, and smooth texture, so u dont even feel its there.

Same is the case with the HTC Diamond and HTC Touch, many here would vouch for that.

Javoedge Ultra Clear screen protectors cost around US$10.xx each.
[XPERIA X1 General] raressh:
The absence of the accelerometer of X1 in gaming is compensated by the buttons and from this point x1 has an advantage in front of htc hd wich can only use the accelerometer in games because it hasn't any buttons that can be used and has no multi-touch, but the HD will be louder because it has stereo speakers and a nother - for xperia it's that it hasn't tv-out :mad: .My final decision is to get xperia:D

Firs post

Cheers from ROMANIA!:)
[XPERIA X1 General] Tigershark42:
But Xperia X1 has stereo speakers too sir >D

I dont think the accelerometer in the Touch HD makes any difference. Probing into Touchflo 3D HD (WVGA) on different XDA Developers threads (such as the one for porting Touchflo 3D to the X1) has taught that the HD barely has any landscape modes anyway. It has a landscape mode for Opera, and I think also has one for media. It also uses the accelerometer for that one preinstalled game. But I personally would want an accelerometer for the autorotate- to use it in landscape. But given that the Touch HD hasnt got a landscape keyboard, landscape texting, landscape menus or landscape Touchflo in general, then having an accelerometer really doesnt add much at all. The X1 on the other hand has landscape mode throughout the entire device, as far as daily use goes. So by technical knockout, the X1 wins in this field aswell.

However, the accelerometer in the HD could add value to the device via 3rd party apps, or software updates (which may someday include landscape views). So from that point of view HD could end up better. But IMO, for regular use the X1 wins since it already does all of this without any probs, and already fully works in landscape mode. You can configure a softkey to rotate the view, or can just slide out the keyboard. There is no guarantee at all that the Touch HD will ever have a full landscape mode, not even the Touch Pro has this- so I would say its doubtful. Go X1! :D
[XPERIA X1 General] creiz:
In fact, what worries me the most here, is the actual resolution. I remember having a lot of problems runnings some (well, we can say that) apps on my Samsung Omnia, due to the WQVGA screen (Mainly games, GPS like tomtom and igo, and even some utility apps). Now in these phones, the screen will be at WVGA, which is worse, because there are not really any apps written for that matter.

I sure do hope that at least someone will come with the good idea of implementing a "compatibility layer" just in case, put 80 pixels top and bottom black or something, and run the apps in the middle.
[XPERIA X1 General] miky7:
There is already a solution:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=442426

But why to cripple your screen like this? I am sure that developers will adapt with the WVGA trend soon.
[XPERIA X1 General] Black93300ZX:
Uhh, there are a total of 3 phones coming with WVGA screens (HD, T*Omnia, and Xperia) and 2 of them are never reaching the US; the other is never reaching a carrier, just being sold for $800 unlocked. Why would you ever think developers will adapt to that particular resolution? Not all of your software comes from Europe and Asia, you know.
[XPERIA X1 General] VaThInK:
Plus look at how long VGA devices has been around now and look at how many soft fully supports VGA screen. Still not as many support as one would expect, especially when it comes to games. Still quite poor even after 4 years. I guess this is due to QVGA devices being the majority. I had hx4700 with WM2003 back in 2004 and I could only enjoy the screen for watching movies and nothing else. Such a waste. If you guys expect WVGA to be the norm very soon, I'd advise not to hold your breath.
[XPERIA X1 General] Super Chimp:
What I want to know is the Xperia X1 more usable than the Touch HD because of it's D Pad & keyboard? Also is it true the X1 has rather small fonts which make it harder to use than the Touch HD?
[XPERIA X1 General] artesea:
It's possible to increase or even decrease the default font size on the X1. Can't really comment on the HD as I haven't seen one, but if you need a physical keyboard then there is no point get the HD.
[XPERIA X1 General] Super Chimp:
I thought the issue was even with the increased font size that the fonts were still rather small?
[XPERIA X1 General] Ineedtoys:
Umm, you forget the Toshiba G900 and G910. OK, they didn't sell well because they were crap, but they were the first with WVGA, and have been around long enough for developers and users to prove screen compatability with Tomtom etc. (http://www.portegeclub.com/forum/).
[XPERIA X1 General] rosebud:
I have a Xperia on order - currently have a diamond - which of course also has a flush screen. never again, its 4 months old and scratched to s*#t

One thing i will note is that most peoples issues with the xperia seem to be related to software or updates, we need to remember that Hard SPL is avaliable for the Xperia, so OK sony many not offer much support - but thats what this community is for.

as for all the *****ing on this thread can't everyone just agree to disagree, I love this forum, I have been on here practically every day for the last 3 years, and it really spoils the experience for everyone when people dont just let go.

Cheers

Steve
[XPERIA X1 General] cbarest:
I gotta say they are two entirely different devices for two entirely different markets - a better comparison would be the Xperia X1A vs. the HTC Fuze (AT&T).
[XPERIA X1 General] DavidMc0:
The Xperia is really nice - I got my one yesterday. I've got it temporarily for testing, then I'll probably give the Touch HD and maybe Touch Pro a go to see what will be my next device after my current Kaiser.

- Firstly, the screen resolution is fantastic, which makes this X1 or the Touch HD likely to be my next phone.

- Screen size is likely to be a big factor in which device is good for you. The Xperia screen is small for such a high resolution, which is fine for me, but those with not so good eyesight should definitely opt for the HD if they want to benefit from the high resolution without holding the phone 40cm away from their face. My parents find the X1 screen a bit tricky in their older age!

- Hardware keyboard is better than the on screen ones, but compared to Kaiser, it sucks (hence I will now also consider the touch Pro).

- Software is largely irrelevant between the Xperia and HD, as you can change roms etc (touch flow 3D is ok on Xperia, though my version does not work in landscape currently)

- Optical joystick is cool, useful in quite a few situations

- Compared to my Kaiser, it's similar with better screen, worse keyboard, and an FM radio. If it had a better keyboard, accelerometer and a slightly larger screen (3.2-3.6"), it would be perfect!

I'll use & play with the Xperia for a few more days before trying the HD for a bit. I'll let you know which one I get on with best & why.

Kind of, but they're incredibly similar devices with far more similarities than differences. Xperia - keyboard + bigger screen is not that different to a Touch HD, and vice versa. If someone wants a WVGA Windows Mobile phone, these are two of the best options, so I'd say they do compete closely (at least I'm considering both, as are many other folk in this thread). But screen is not everything, and as you say, the Touch Pro should be included in the comparison, as it's another keyboarded option, which is important to many folk (me included).
[XPERIA X1 General] zenkinz:
you really need to get used to the X1 keyboard before falling in love with it. I have used Touch Pro (and did I say I have used it for 8 weeks before changing to X1?) I prefer Xperia keyboard for better experience and ergonomic.

That said, I would say a fairer comparison will be Touch Pro and Xperia, and HD versus Omnia/Diamond or even iPhone.

Both serves two different market with different priorities. It doesn't mean user of HD will not have requirement that X1 provides, it's just that once you differentiate between the wants and the needs, both HD and Xperia has its distinct list of needs that doesn't overlap at all.
[XPERIA X1 General] sonystu:
Think we need to take a step back as everyone is going a little ott really they are 2 of the same keybord or large screen is the Q you need to ask yourself. I am after many weeks now going for the X1 support I know will be a problem as I work for sony however XDA developers is the answer. Just going to see what the VAT drop dose on monday!!!:)
[XPERIA X1 General] Alex Atkin UK:
Personally, the keyboard is the one thing that lets the X1 down for me.

After getting used to how easy the keyboard on my old Wizard was to use, the X1 is just too small. I have to use my fingernails to not hit the wrong keys, which makes it almost impossible every time I have clipped my nails. Bearing in mind I know people with MUCH bigger fingers than mine.

When I look at the Wizard keyboard you can see why it works so well, the key spacing is fantastic. Even my mum with arthritis in her hands can easily type messages on it, which is really saying something. She has a lot more trouble operating WM6 itself however due to how precise you have to be with it, but we all know how totally un-finger-friendly WM is.

Anyway, design wise the X1 keyboard would be fine, if they had just made it that bit bigger or dropped one column of keys somehow in order to space them out better. The built quality is brilliant from what I can tell, its just too much crammed into too small a space.
[XPERIA X1 General] zenkinz:
keyboard needs abit of getting used to, I would say. But once you do, it's actually very good, much better than Touch Pro. Just need to 'feel' the right thumb position