yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Untouchab1e:
The specifications says nothing about which CMOS sensor or image proccessor being used. From the specifications: "3.2mpx camera", all you get to know is the resolution the camera can capture. And I dont know about yours, but my Touch Pro can capture images at 2048x1536, and the viewer is quite responsive! The colors arent great, but I dont care. I my opinion, phone cameras cant replace a regular camera yet anyways, so why bother with it. Its more than good enough for its use. When I want to capture my family holiday, il use my Canon 450d!

Comparing a phone to a car is also slightly off. Ubuntu, computer motherboards, Windows, Android, Nokia and Symbian, PS3, PSP, hell, even my Garmin 60CSx hasnt been bug free. If your expectations were met and your phones and what not had been bug free and flawless, there would not be a point in developing software updates.

Take operatings systems for example: Estimates have stated an impressive amount of errors in the source codes. Why arent these fixed before release? Because of the ease of releasing software updates later.

Why does brakes on a car work? Because the manufacturer cant easily distribute new brakes to all owners of their cars.

I am not saying that its a good thing HTC doesnt fix all bugs prior to release, but I'm just saying I'm neither shocked or utterly dissapointed that your Touch Pro, a endlessly featurefilled phone, has a few minor bugs!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Untouchab1e:
Thats not my point. I just have the feeling that you think HTC is worse than most other similar companies because their devices have a few bugs! *Sigh*.

But to continue on my iPhone comparison, look at all the people who have and love their iPhones. I dont like it much, although I can appreciate its strengths. Anyways, they are willing to pay an insane amount for a phone thats pretty bug-filled even after numerous software updates.

I love my Touch Pro, and even if I find a few minor bugs, its still the best phone for me out right now. The only direct alternative is the Xperia, but from the demo's ive watched showing off the UI, I'm not really impressed! Besides, the battery life on the Touch Pro is far better than any of the other HTC devices i've had!

Bottom line: Bugs suck, but none of the most common bugs regarding the Touch Pro would be deal breakers for me! If you bought the Touch Pro in hopes of using it to record your holidays, then you didnt know much about the device before you got it!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
Sorry, but from what I've read over here, touch pro does not have just a few bugs.. but many. And all are quite major. GPS worked without problems prior to touch pro and touch diamond.

And the major problem here is that HTC thinks that the device is OK and those issues are isolated (I've posted somewhere a fragment from HTC support reply). Do you actually know what this means? Yes, no fixes, no updates! (what to fix if they don't actually know that issues are present?!) That's what really pisses me off..

So, we must *spread* this until HTC will come with fixes. If not, maybe a new "HTC Class Action" will arrive..

As I've already said (and many others) the bugs of touch pro aren't minor. Just take a look at gps lag problem that many people are facing with. Let's be realistic. Haven't said that touch pro doesn't have a great hardware (it sure does) but the poor software/drivers implementation.. HTC should learnt from past (again, see htc tytn ii & co - MSM7200 & MSM7500 Qualcomm devices -> http://www.htcclassaction.org/ ).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] JakubAnderwald:
When's the last time you bought a new model (released the same year you bought it) of a car? EVERY first-year model has some issues. Some of them are fixed by the manufacutrer for free (they call users for something-replacement), some of them are just fixed in the next version, and not for the already sold cars.

It works kinda the same way.

If it work for Microsoft, expect more business to adopt the same way of doing business :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] zex11:
You are either an employee of HTC or a shareholder
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] graham.hughes:
DSF: you don't even have a TP... you're judging this from negative posts on this forum. You're ignoring the many owners who are happy with what they bought (the majority).

HTC will be no more or less aware of problems with the device than any other manufacturer. You are judging by the knowledge of a customer service monkey. HTC is a BIG company, and big companies do not communicate well, especially not negative information.

I was speaking some while ago to a senior account manager in Sony Ericsson (who looks after big accounts, like network operators), who was completely unaware that Sony's Platform 7 devices (K800, K810, etc) have a serious bug that corrupts the file system, rendering the device completely unusable (and makes it impossible to get your photos off the device). He was furious to discover that the techies knew about it, and hadn't bothered to let anyone know.

You don't have a Touch Pro, so vote with your wallet! Go buy an Iphone, an N95, Sony Ericsson M600i... there's no shortage of devices.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
Indeed, I don't have a Touch Pro. I've done some research and found out that this phone does not deserve its price. I known 2 persons (not from this forum) who had a lot of HTC devices and they bought the touch pro. They weren't dissapointed, but very dissapointed. They said that this will be the last HTC device. Why? And those users aren't just noobs, they have experience with WM... they were htc fans. And they are not the only ones.. read http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=412065&page=13 . So, I don't speak just by myself, I have proves for my statements.

Touch Pro has many function, maybe the happy owners just doesn't care about the flaws - because their main function is something else.

Go here and don't tell me that you don't have at least 2-3 issues. For example, the keymapping is a general issue. Also, many users are reporting gps issues.

And about the proposals, no thanks! I'm a WM fan, I've used in past Symbian S60 so no thanks.

BTW, who's fault for their costumer services? Aren't these people payed by HTC? so they should go and train them or forward the issues to technical team for a better response... ;).

Some of you always find reasons to defend HTC.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] jcespi2005:
mmmm i don't see myself like an "idiot" ;)

anyway, i come from a Kaiser, and Touch Pro is a good improvement over this one, but sure is not perfect... there is no perfect device...

Bugs, of course, all devices have bugs, but for me the GPS works as good (or bad...) as in the Kaiser, sound as good as in Kaiser (not as good as in the Wizard...) and resources available are really better... the new interface is nicer, perhaps not so quickly... but you can choose what you can view on your phone ;)

When the Kaiser arrived, all we had bugs, but the upgrades arrives later and the devices now works so fine... but all HTC devices have same proccess ;) so in a short time we will have an OS upgrade for sure...

Anyway you can buy what you want....

For now i don't feel like an idiot ;) i love technology and love learn things related, so here i am, trying to learn...

Cheers
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
jcespi2005 sorry if I left for interpretation with "Touch Pro has many function, maybe the happy owners just doesn't care about the flaws - because their main function is something else". I wanted to say that one is using the music more, another the GPS, other the office functions and so on.

Actually, what I want is HTC to fix the problems. As I've said many times, these issues must be spread as much as possible. If not, HTC will think that are very isolated and they will do nothing.

Don't forget that with TyTN II, HTC was forced to do something because of many sites that spread the news about the video issues.

Again, again, I want to have all the functions mentioned in the specs above average. If I have integrated GPS, I want to work accurately when needed, not with delay. If my device can play music, I want to play it at high quality. If my device have GPU i want to be able to use it at maximum. If my device has a phone function, I want to use it without problems. And so on..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Kevven:
That is what i want to point out aswell.. Im not bashing HTC or the TP here. I own the device myself! Im just pointing out the flaws. And hope they get fixed. And again. Thank god for this forum. It is the best! But it still isnt fair that this is the place people have to go to get the basic functions corrected.. This should be the place where the device is taken to another level. And where applicatons, games and tools are developed.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] graham.hughes:
I am in no way suggesting that HTC do a top-notch job. TouchFlo3D is too buggy to be usable (overnight reboots), and the construction of the dpad/send/end key area is poor.

I use the GPS (with TomTom 6, no lag), I make calls (no muting, no delay, volume fine, reception the as any other phone I've owned), I listen to MP3 (I don't use the TF3D player, and sound quality is fine). I've sat on a plane watching a video (quality was fine, battery didn't run out).

I have no problems with key-mapping. It is not strictly a bug if software written for a different phone doesn't work on this one.

One of your bugs is "LED under send key does not work"... a clear handset fault that one guy has! This is not an intrinsic problem with the device!

Some people report as "bugs" things that they just don't like. They start with "my old phone used to...". The fact that, if you PIN lock your device, you cannot see the calendar entries until you unlock it is not "the mother of all bugs" - it's the way virtually every PocketPC works.

Yes, I don't dispute that some people have problems they find unacceptable. My point is that most people do not. The poll on this forum shows that much better than anecdotal stories of "I know a couple of blokes...".

OK, get an i-mate 9502. Or wait and wait and wait for the Sony X1.

Yes, they work for HTC, and these issues should be communicated. My points were that (a) HTC probably do know about the problems, and (b) they are no worse than the competition.

This is not a case of defending HTC. The case is, if you say "HTC could do better", you're right; if you say "HTC are rubbish, I'm buying a Nokia", stop whinging and buy a Nokia! But don't complain if your Nokia sucks too.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
Ok, it seems that you are one of the lucky ones. But you cannot negate the so many complains.

Keymapping with emulators (for eg) is working fine on other QWERTY devices. With TP not. This means something has changed on mapping process.. However, what I'm trying to say here it's that TP has some compatibility issue with general/old software. So, all developers have to rewrite the code to make the programs TP-compatible.

I didn't say that, I actually hate nokia brand. Actually I've switched from Nokia to HTC a few years ago. Anyway.. let's return to the subject .

Read Kevven message. That's what I want. To spread the issues, so HTC will start fix them.

And BTW, SE XPERIA X1 is manufactured by HTC.

About i-mate 9502, I don't like it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] technillion:
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder...

Kevven, I agree with you...we (the public/the community) shouldn't be BETA TESTERS for ANYONE!

One way of getting our voice heard is really simple...we as a community need to start clogging up these manufacturer's phone lines, email boxes and fax machines with our complaints.

Someone needs to 1) gather the correct email addresses, phone and fax numbers, 2) determine the topic of concern (one topic at a time), 3) write a short complaint script that everyone will use, 4) set a future date & time to "attack"; and 5) ask everyone who frequents this site to call, email and fax the complaint to the company during a specific date/time interval.

I've organized this tactic many times before for various issues (political, community, etc.) and it has always produced results in the end.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] WDawn:
Just to put things in the right perspective: This month HTC hopes to achieve 100.000 Diamonds sold in Holland. Only in Holland. Where the famous Iphone has only 60.000 units sold.

I don't see 100.000 dutch HTC Diamond users on XDA, so i guess the majority is very happy with their device and does not have to seek for support.

The same applies to the TP, the majority is very happy with their device. As for this forum: there are 2 types of visitors: the ones that have a problem/bug/issue and want help, and the ones that want to tweak/tune/flash their device into perfectness.

The first type of visitor should explain why so see numerous reports of problems.

And if you do really feel unhappy with your device, go to the store and buy a nokia/Iphone/SE..., and go whine on the nokia/Iphone/SE... forums :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
So this is the solution? Briliant.. what can I say...

you have to understand that the users are unhappy with the device because of the unexpected issues and they want 'em resolved. Period.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Untouchab1e:
A very important aspect there! Consider all the HTC Diamond and Touch Pro users out there. You only see a large handfull of them here, some of those complaining, some of those woulndt be here if they didnt have a problem with their device either. If you dont even have the phone, and just judging it from what you read on a "support" forum (which this kinda is), then I hope you have read the latest SE/Apple/Nokia forums as well. Trust me, you dont see "yay, this phone is so bug-free that I have to come here to tell you!"

In my mind, that doesnt give my enough evidence to conclude that poor GPS or wrong keyboard mappings are faults you find on the majority of devices. My GPS works fine, and I havent noticed anything wrong with the keyboard mappings. So maybe my TP is magical, I dont know.

I hope they release software updates to fix what ever problems I may or may not have, but in the end, all I am saying is that in the modern world, where internet connecitivity is extremly common (at least in areas where HTC devices are in use), HTC and the rest of the telecom/IT market feel they can use the net to easily distribute software updates, making it easier to justify near-finished products to reach the market.

In the old days, you could more or less count on any phone you purchased to be reliable and perfectly stable, as the manufactureres knew that they coulndt fix any software bugs at a later stage that easily!

Nokia phones are just as buggy, and the amount of faulty Sony Ericsson devices are really quite high (cant find the report link.. il keep looking), and my friends generally complain more about their SE/LG/Samsung phones than with their HTCs.

Go on with your fax-attack, good initiative, but I slightly doubt the amount of people you will get in on it..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] WDawn:
You say "the users" i'd say "some users". Big difference. For me, for you, for HTC.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] jcespi2005:
come on guys, stay on topic !

OMG but what's the topic ;)

"We are idiots, not HTC!"

jejeje this is funny...

If you feel your device have so many issues, open a ticket with HTC support. the more tickets open, the more attention from HTC to solve the issues... and this happen with every manufacturer, beleave me ;)

Cheers
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
WDawn I was referring to the users which have issues with their TP. My mistake
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] apokryphus:
You hit the point - instead of diskussing, just send your device back for improvements and if they do nothing, send it back again. The more people do this, the more there will be done something from htc.

if everybody, who suffers from that gps-lag send back his device, then the solution would be presented quite fast.

and i will send my device back...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Untouchab1e:
This is a much better solution than whining on these forums or spamming HTC.

If I find my device to have serious issues, I will sent it back to the store where I bought it, and they will fix it!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
And if they will send it back to you again (saying that the device is fine even if it isn't)? Or send another defective device?

You don't get the point here. It's not only one, two, three device with problems. A lot of them (maybe a "series")
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Untouchab1e:
Then throw in a piece of paper with a proper description of your problem and other information you have regarding the problem, and it will be much more difficult for the support team to deny it. As ive been told by people who work at tech support, a lot of the devices they get in have very vague problem descriptions.. "GPS broken, fix!", which really doesnt illuminate the problem.

Untill someone does that, you obviously dont find the bug so serious. I cant really tell, since I dont seem to have any of them. The only bug ive found so far is that when turning my device on while connected to wifi (using full power consumtion), my qwerty keyboard will sometimes stop responding (easily fixed by turning off wifi again). A problem I would be happy if I see fixed, but doesnt really bother me much.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Kevven:
I agree with you on this. We have to involve HTC in this offcourse. That is what i and others are trying to do. But some here just wants to offend the people that do complaint. And i cant see the point in that. And to tell people to get another device is just plain wrong. You buy a product cause you want that product. And you kinda expect it to work the way it should. And this is a high end product. With high end user depending on it. We should get respect from HTC, in the same way that we respect them and trust them.

And again. Not bashing anyone here. Just pointing out things.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Untouchab1e:
Off course! Dont sit there with a faulty or bugged device and do nothing. Just dont be shocked that it has a bug or two!

But if "We are idiots, not HTC!" is the message you are trying to promote, I just dont agree!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] aro:
When I decided to buy my TP in the early stage where not much experience was to read in this forum, I was prepared to pay a lot of money for a fancy new device that might have some (or a lot) of bugs.

10 days after I started playing woth my new TP, I was disappionted enough to annouce my wish to return it to my retailer.

First he refused to take it back, but after lots of mails between me, retailer, HTC an EuroTwice, I will bring my device back to get a new one next week Tuesday.

If that device still has the same bugs as my first one, I will follow the same procedure again and again.

I know, this might be as a waste of time, but the worst thing I think we can do is live with HTC bugs.

Instead I am sure HTC will put more effort in fixing the bugs once they get every second device back.

This cost them a lot of money for handling the returned devices, so they will sooner or later do something against it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Black93300ZX:
He was being facetious and making the point that the HTC reps were trying to make it seem like these bugs were all normal, and he should've expected it when buying the phone. He obviously doesn't agree, and thinks they should take a proactive approach of fixing them rather than sitting back and saying "if we get enough complaints we'll look into it".
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] gustok:
Action Action Action

Very nicely put and explained and I think that this is what most of the people here are actually looking for....not just to whine or say stop whining but some sort of action to establish a protocol to try to get htc to help....bravo

Second: IF you are actually trying to get people to agree with you, you want htc to do something, START DOING SOMETHING!!!! If you don't try to send them back and get them fixed isn't that the same as doing nothing? just whining.....come on you say you want htc to do fix them make a plan of action, get all the people in these forums and make a list like what was said above. Documentation is everything to a large company and unless you can document problems AND the failed attempts to fix them you aren't going to get jack from any large company I don't care if all it was is they forgot to put the sprinkles on your cupcake. And sorry but one thing I disagree with and it is just a fact of life for some people....you don't DESERVE anything, you EARN everything.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] DSF:
Unsatisfied e-mail responses?

http://twitter.com/htc

Try this way!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Flippy_TK:
Hello,

Concerning what is written in the 1st post in this page:

The second time I called the HTC hotline, the guy to whom I spoke with said it never had written such a long e-mail. I gave him ALL (I say ALL) the detail, including the fact that the intermittent sound problem happens both using the phone per se, using it with the provided headset, connected to the parrot, putting the speaker, ecc...

With that description Eurotwice changed some pieces indeed, but THEY DIDN'T DO AN EXTENSIVE TEST after repairing it! It came back and after a couple of days the bugs where back! I'm so so so so disappointed of the after sale service! So far I've spent 50 EUR + on phone calls to HTC hotline and Eurotwice hotline (which is a special number --> extra cost).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] annonymouse:
buy a nokia hahahahahaha

name me a n series that hasnt had major software issues

you could have a lovely n96 and have the privlidge of not being able to send texts
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] VaThInK:
This is how I see it from my own perspective.

No company in this world guarantee that their products or services will be free from defects or faultless. Nothing in this world is perfect. If any of you guys are not satisfied with their services or products, let it be your most expensive experience and stay away from them. If you buy their products or services again then the title of this thread is dead right on the money.

If any of you guys received a defective unit, return it for replacement or repair instead of saying that the whole TPs are defective. Just like when your laptops, motherboards, monitors, etc gone faulty. If you find that their service is lacking, simply don't come back. If you expect everything should work flawlessly without even a single hitch when you're buying new technology, you would ended up not buying anything in this world.

Now you say that HTC is not carrying out good practices when it comes to their after sales support in term of bug fixes and software updates. You will see this kind of practice being carried out everywhere. Money have driven businesses to adopt this. Otherwise the would inflate their prices through the roof to allow for extensive RD, implementation, testing, QA, etc you name it. It all comes down to money. I'm sure you all already know about this. In the end, you really get what you paid for.

People only say something when things go wrong, but when they don't, most just keep their mouth shut. So you will only see the negatives floating around. Maybe we can do a poll to get a better idea of the general consensus? I personally own a TP and I'm loving every bit of it. I would rate it 8~8.5/10 myself. No major issues so far. Nothing worth *****ing about really. Most of the things I don't like is with the Windows Mobile itself instead of the hardware. MS have a lot of serious work to do.

So far I've never heard of any HTCs having random restart issue. In the past I've owned at least 1 of Motorola, SE and Nokia that have this issue. Now you say that HTC GPS lag is a major issue? Please think again, be thankful at least you can still make phone calls when you need it which is the primary use of a phone.

DSF: Consider yourself lucky then and buy something else if you think HTC is not for you. HTC is not forcing you to buy their products. Why buy it or even stress about it if you don't like it.

I don't mean to be harsh at all and I'm sorry if it sounds like I do. Not my intention at all. Again, this is how I see it. ;)