yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Looks like some of the Ultimate price is less about the phone and more about including one of those mystery boxes from the game aisle in Target

View attachment 5326883

Coming soon to eBay at only 1/3 the price of buying the phone yourself...
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] Anubarak16:
You could mention as well: the pro and ultimate ship with an additional fan (can be attached to the phone, it is not inside the phone) for cooling
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
The AeroActive Cooler 5 is included, but that isn't something you can only get by choosing a specific model. That is something they sell separately.

ASUS USA

ASUS is a leading company driven by innovation and commitment to quality for products that include notebooks, netbooks, motherboards, graphics cards, displays, desktop PCs, servers, wireless solutions, mobile phones and networking devices. ASUS ranks among BusinessWeek’s InfoTech 100 for 12...

store.asus.com
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] Anubarak16:
I know I know. But it could change the choice of someone who wants to decide between

Normal (16 GB RAM, 256 GB) + extra separate AeroActive Cooler vs Pro variant

that's 1068€ vs 1199€ compared to 999€ vs 1199€

Oh I just noticed it is mentioned in the picture as a very small hint.. I didn't see it
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Assuming the pro is actually available. A lot of the local Asus sites are keeping quiet about it because it makes the Ultimate look like much less of an upgrade.

The cooler isn't really worth $60. If double the storage and the customizable rear color display don't justify the cost, then there are $20 alternatives on Amazon that will work just as well (or better).

View attachment 5327473
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
A lot of people recommend getting the Black Shark cooler, but also warn that it may discolor the phone. Apparently it is a bit overkill.

Amazon.com: Apobob Black Shark Phone Cooler Pro for Gaming, Smartphone, 1 Second Cooling Fan for Gaming Lives Videos, Vlog, Cooler Radiator for 2.63-3.46 inches IOS / Android Semiconductor Heatsink (Black, Pro): Kitchen & Dining

Amazon.com: Apobob Black Shark Phone Cooler Pro for Gaming, Smartphone, 1 Second Cooling Fan for Gaming Lives Videos, Vlog, Cooler Radiator for 2.63-3.46 inches IOS / Android Semiconductor Heatsink (Black, Pro): Kitchen & Dining

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Apobob Black Shark 2 Pro Phone Cooler With Display Temperature, Cooler Radiator for 2.63-3.46 inches iOS/Android Semiconductor Heatsink, Cooling Fan in 1 Second Phone Cooler for Gaming (Black, 2 Pro) : Cell Phones & Accessories

Amazon.com: Apobob Black Shark 2 Pro Phone Cooler With Display Temperature, Cooler Radiator for 2.63-3.46 inches iOS/Android Semiconductor Heatsink, Cooling Fan in 1 Second Phone Cooler for Gaming (Black, 2 Pro) : Cell Phones & Accessories

www.amazon.com

Then, of course, there are the fan alternatives that are drastically cheaper.

Amazon.com: SakuraClub Semi-Conductor Phone Cooler, Cellphone Radiator with Dual Cooling Chip, Cooling Case for iOS/Android Phones, Suitable for Mobile Gaming, Video Streaming, Car Driving: Industrial & Scientific

Buy SakuraClub Semi-Conductor Phone Cooler, Cellphone Radiator with Dual Cooling Chip, Cooling Case for iOS/Android Phones, Suitable for Mobile Gaming, Video Streaming, Car Driving: Case Fans - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] ron_hyatt:
I have seen a 12/128 gb version online but its not mentioned in this thread!

Which is better and why......tencent vs other version and how to tell the difference? :)
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Tencent won't support 5G in most countries. This can vary, but it's generally easier to assume that it won't. Not sure why none of the "official" channels list the 12/128, but NGP Store claims to be selling it.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] ron_hyatt:
Thanks but how can i spot the global version of rog 5 ?( Whats written on the box? Product code?....etc).
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Safest way is to buy it from your local Asus site. It'll be cheaper, too.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] Anubarak16:
What's the advantage of the Tencent version then?

I still don't really get why it even exists or why someone would buy it on purpose.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
It exists because other countries have other carriers.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] chaos_envoys:
Why does tencent ver. Dont support 5G in most countries? Doesnt it have the bands support too?
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Different bands.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] JazonX:
Are the firmware files inter-compatible against all models?

Trying to find the RAW Firmware of ROG 5 Ultimate ..
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
I couldn't tell you. This was only a comparison of the hardware.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] Anubarak16:
I guess(!) those are the same.. when you take a look at files for the ROG 5 vs the ROG 5 Ultimate they share the same version and filesize... I didn't compare the binaries tho.

Ultimate

Firmware

Version WW18.0840.2106.86

2021/07/22 3.24 GBytes

ROG Phone 5 (ZS673KS) software Image：WW-18.0840.2106.86 for WW/JP/EU only*

Kernel

Version V18.0840.2104.56

2021/06/23 218.01 MBytes

ZS673KS Kernel Source Code V18.0810.2104.56

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/ZenFone/ZS673KS/ASUS_I005_1-18.0840.2104.56-kernel-src.tar.gz

normal

Firmware

Version WW18.0840.2106.86

2021/07/22 3.24 GBytes

ROG Phone 5 (ZS673KS) software Image：WW-18.0840.2106.86 for WW/JP/EU only*

Kernel

Version V18.0840.2104.56

2021/06/23 218.01 MBytes

ZS673KS Kernel Source Code V18.0810.2104.56
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] cotov:
Hm, I use the Black Shark cooler, gotta watch out for discoloration I guess. But I don't agree that it's ovekill. When I play Genshin it isn't really able to cope. Once the phone gets saturated with heat the cooler temp jumps from 15 to 23 degrees and the system temp hovers around 50 - 53 degrees. That's at 25 degrees ambient temperature. So I'm actually lookig for something more powerful. But in the end it may not be possible to defeat the super hot 888.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Discoloring the phone is overkill. They made a newer one since that post, too
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] JazonX:
Thank you for the confirmation!

Hope this is not a blunder by ASUS ! Haha
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
The links you posted and the ones for the standard are identical, but I was trying to casually hint that maybe one of the 10 firmware threads were a better place to avoid it getting lost.

As for this thread, ill add the S edition details once they are confirmed, but it is looking more and more like the Pro is being cancelled. It was originally supposed to release before the Ultimate and we now know that isn't happening.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Specs are in.

The 5s Pro is pretty much a revised Pro, but with the 888+ and now 18 / 512. It is still going to be black only with the full color rear display. This means the Ultimate will remain the best looking of the devices.

It should be safe to assume the original Pro has been pulled in favor of the 5s Pro.
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] Anubarak16:
Just to be fair for enthusiasts you could mention all differences.

The response touch rate increased a little bit.

These new devices hit a 360Hz rate instead of a 300Hz. And the display will have an additional 90 fps option
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] JazonX:
About to test the theory now ...
[ASUS ROG Phone 5 / 5s] twistedumbrella:
Ill make sure to read about it at https://xdaforums.com/t/rog-phone-5-ultimate-new-firmware-ww18-0840-2106-86-root-images.4320995/

Edit: If anyone else gets their hands on an Ultimate and wants to test if the images are universal, feel free to drop by one of the kernel threads. It would be nice to know if certain versions need their own build.
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] Filkiro:
Hey guys, I was trying to root my smartphone using magisk, so I downloaded the stock rom and got the boot.img file for magisk to modify, passed the modified file to the computer and put my device in fastboot mode, but adb-fastboot didn't recognize my device even though I installed the google drivers, so I decided to install the manufacturer's own drivers, but it didn't work, I went to several forums and nothing, so please help!
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] sd_shadow:
Does it show in Device Manager?

Install Moto

USB Drivers
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] Filkiro:
Yes, when i go into fastboot mode, it pops up "Android adb interface"
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] meowHelpMeRoot:
seems to be a reoccuring problem to us. steps as show:​

​

1. press the windows key + r at the same time to open the "run" window.​

2. type "devmgmt.msc" and press enter. it should give a device management window in a few seconds.​

3. if the phone is in mtp mode, it will appear under portable devices/mobile devices. right click that and select "update drivers." click on "search drivers in my computer" and then select "allow me to choose from a available drivers list from my computer." scroll down until you see "mtp device" and double click on it. just click on "proceed". if it fails, try it again but with different drivers.​

make sure to have usb depuration on and reboot to fastboot yadda yada badlaldaaa

then update fastboot drivers "device may be on android phone "'''make sure to install motorola drivers or built in fastboot drivers''''' and then proceed
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] FPSensor:
no matter how much you manage to install drivers you will not be able to root your moto e6 play, (BOOTLOADER IMPOSSIBLE TO UNLOCK UNTIL THE MOMENT)

and do not come to say that it is due to drivers or because we are using an incorrect method, etc.

fastboot oem get_unlock_data not working

fastboot oem unlock does not work

fatboot flashing unlock and unlock_critical either

and it does not appear as waiting for device

appears as remote: unknown command

so it is a problem of the bootloader and not the user
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] Filkiro:
Yes, I searched many forums and it really is practically impossible to unlock the bootloader, but I have a question, is it possible to root using the sp flash tool?
[Moto E6 Play Questions & Answers] FPSensor:
no, AVB2.0 doesn't allow it, unless I manage to get motorola's private key (.pem) to be able to sign a patched boot.img and even GSIs
[General Questions and Answers] BobMarvin:
I tried a new hard disk by NTFS only, which Linux could use NTFS File System?
[General Questions and Answers] sammiev:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/NTFS-3G

I would use ext4 myself unless you are sharing the drive with both Windows and Linux.

It's the easiest way.
[Huawei Mate 40 Pro Questions & Answers] klemen241:
Hello, i noticed when orientation of the screen is in landscape, edges are black, about 1mm on both sides. I have edges turned on in settings, but it seems it automaticly makes them black. Any ideas? Try and test if you have same problem. Put something on the edge when phone is on desktop , and open any app in horizontal orientation . You will see edges are black

PS: to answer my own question: huawei reported back to me, saying the phone automaticly shrinks screen when in landscape mode. No fix for now
[OnePlus 8T Questions & Answers] coomac:
How to install the OnePlus Camera? I tried the APK extracted from a OnePlus 8t from APK mirror and the camera was black. Gcam works fine. Thanks.
[Huawei P20 Lite Questions & Answers] joenuts2124:
Need some stock firmware for the ANE-LX1.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] SevralT:
PixelExperience for OnePlus 6 [Enchilada]

What is this?

PixelExperience is an AOSP based ROM, with Google apps included and all Pixel goodies (launcher, wallpapers, icons, fonts, boot animation)

Our mission is to offer the maximum possible stability and security, along with essential and useful features for the proper functioning of the device

Based on Android 11

Whats working?

Wi-Fi

RIL

Mobile data

GPS

Camera

Flashlight

Camcorder

Bluetooth

FM radio

Fingerprint reader

Face unlock

NFC

Lights

Sound/vibration

Known issues

Wi-Fi Display

DON'T FLASH GAPPS, THEY'RE ALREADY INCLUDED

Download from PixelExperience website

Donate

Liked my work? Give me a beer

Translation

Help with project translation

Stay tuned

Our Telegram channel

Our blog

​

Android OS version: 11.0.0_r37

Security patch level: May 2021

Build author/Device Maintainer: SevralT

Device Source code: https://github.com/SevralT

Kernel Source code: https://github.com/LineageOS/android_kernel_oneplus_sdm845

Source code: https://github.com/PixelExperience

ROM Developer: jhenrique09
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] adeklipse:
Ah, nice. Thanks OP for the builds, and also thanks to @zahidm for providing us with unofficial PE up until this point!

I noticed that the downloads page offered a special PE recovery image? I was curious and looked and the instructions and they seemed different than the usual "flash using TWRP" that most ROMs use. Do we have to follow the steps on the website?
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] SevralT:
Flash this rom like you flashing other roms. All roms installing same
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] jonathanrajya3:
Will future updates overwrite twrp with pe recovery? will it be compatible with twrp?
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] vikash1994b:
Yes, TWRP will be replaced by PE recovery.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] jonathanrajya3:
Ok, I tried flashing with PE recovery and it said "Package is for product OnePlus6 but expected enchilada", I followed the instructions on PE website
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] rana2hin:
I'm wondering what's the difference between regular edition and plus edition?

and what about battery life, is there anyone tried it? please give a review.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] candreva87:
Actually I'm on Pixel Experience Plus "unofficial" from the Cross Device Development section.

Do this Official version start from that build? Or it's a completely new project? I mean will I find everything working well with the same "plus" customizations? Thanks
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] SevralT:
You need to use LOS recovery or TWRP. If I will drop codename overiding, anyone will can't flash PE via twrp.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] jonathanrajya3:
Oh ok, I installed the rom by temporarily flashing twrp, will install it permanently then. And another thing is I'm not able to sideload apks when I try to install it shows installing and nothing shows up, but I'm able to install it through adb install,
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] Harsh Kemali:
I still haven't tried plus edition yet but battery life will give you around 5-6hrs on full charge (normal usage) device is used for more than 2yr
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] rana2hin:
thank you for reply, try plus edition and give us a review 😃

I'm currently on Palladium OS, battery life is 7+ hours.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] kryshnakishore:
If you rooted your Android device, change your device model to Pixel you'll get unlimited photos & video uploads on Google Photos for lifetime at ORIGINAL quality.

Does any one know how to change Device Model on Op6, i have rooted but cant see model in Build.prop
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] ipha:
Does this support customizable vibration intensity like the unofficial version?
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] WrathChild08:
@ipha There's no options such as vibrations settings (I have this ROM), but if I'm correct you can do it via Kernel manager (Not sure..) it's a LOS Kernel so I think that's possible.

Note 100% sure about that.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] jonathanrajya3:
Anyone not able to install apks? I'm not able to but working through adb install
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] :
Guys, is it just me or are the device-specific settings missing in this ROM (I installed PE+)?
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] gnissoer:
No, same here. I noticed in the previous unofficial builts already, that those only show up after a while. I hope it's going to be the same here...
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] Indianb0y018:
Is anybody able to move the volume menu over to the left? Its really bugging me being on the right side. Other than that, the rom is great so far.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] umangtayal:
You can't! Not on Pixel Experience. It might become available on PE+ but not on normal PE
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] donvito12:
Thx for the info !
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] Dreyn:
Is the "Ok Google" hotword detection working on the latest version, with OOS11 as base?
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] shivam.goel.rocx:
It is working for me.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] jhony251:
Hi dears! i am having some difficulties.

I feel that my phone works fine for 5 seconds and keep hold for 1 second all time.

i cant get work "ok Google"

Was imposible for me to use OTA system. I downloaded de Zip file and i sideload update over previous version. may by this a problem? could be the reason for my problems?

I would like to downgrade agoust version that except "ok Google" works fine, is this posible?

Thakns for your great job!!!
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
Follow flashing instructions

Twrp

Advance wipe (wipe everything till internal. Don't wipe internal or usb storage if connected to device.)

Flash Oos11

Flash Finalize (if don't want to use finalize than install oos than reboot to Fastboot flash twrp again (Fastboot boot twrp.img) than flash oos so it would be on both slots A and B)

Flash rom (here pixel experience /plus)

Flash twrp and don't reboot

Format data and swipe to factory reset.

Now reboot.

If side loading than u have to side load oos11 on both slots a and b

Than side load the rom and twrp. Again format data and swipe to factory reset.

Reboot
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] jhony251:
Hi friend thank you very much for your answer.

What you are telling me is a clean installation, I was working right with a clean installation in August version.

I wish only an update to September version...

This is my question now...

On each OTA update is necessary to make a clean installation?

😊 Thanks
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] umangtayal:
from now on, clean flash won't be necessary. The september build requires clean flash because it is based on oos 11 unlike the august build which was based on oos 10.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
Just once do the clean install upcoming builds can de dirty flashed. If you have clean installed the rom with oos11
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] yodanutz01:
Do banking apps work fine with latest build? With no root.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] mcboums:
can i flash "plus" version over then “normal" version or I have to make it clean install?

i am on latest "normal" build
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] OrkanFryderyk:
Hi, I've installed recently newest update September 21, 2021 plus version and on my device all playbacks in media players like Spotify, YouTube are stuttering. It's not internet connection problem because when I download mp3 it still stutters. Have you encountered this problem? And is there any solution ?
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
No, but you can try clean flash thr pixel /plus rom or try changing vendor to latest version A11 or clear cache and data of bluetooth, bluetooth midi services,media files (all) , files,download (both) , etc apps you use.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] OrkanFryderyk:
Right now I am on latest version of A11, and I installed it via clean and flash using oficial recovery. When it comes to clearing cache and data I cleared bluetooth, bluetooth midi services, com.android.providers.media spotify and youtube but problem still persist. Any other ideas ? or should i just try once again clean flash rom ? I don't know if that's important but I moved from oxygen 11 (i saw that latest build supports it), everything else works fine :)
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] OrkanFryderyk:
I just fixed it, disabled Ok Google and now it works fine
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] OrkanFryderyk:
one more question, is the dash charge working ? becouse in my case it charge's 5w
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
For me everything is working.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] kase2804:
It works for mee too. But in only displays "charging ", not "fast charging"
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] kase2804:
Some work, but my personal bank does not work.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] ozrrrr:
ROM is running great, but the display saturation issue really... REALLY needs attention. Since the lastest update, display mode picker has even disappeared completely.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] Pintu1980:
Can someone describe me how to install this pe rom. I never install any custom rom on my oneplus 6. I am on stable latest os 11 11.1.1.1. thank you in advance. My bootloader it locked.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
Unlock bootloader

https://xdaforums.com/t/oneplus-6-unlock-bootloader-flash-twrp-root-nandroid-efs-backup.3792643/

Follow flashing instructions I have mentioned.

Goodluck.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] tiberiuharcsa:
Stupid question: how to go back to stock OOS11 from PE11? I found a flashable OS11 zip, it must be flashed using TWRP? What version ofTWRP? Or can I just flash a OOS10 fastboot flash all.bat zip? Thank you!
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
Flash oos11 via twrp and and format data(also swipe to factory reset) reboot than lock the bootloader using the same procedure to unlock
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] tiberiuharcsa:
What version of twrp? I tried booting twrp-3.5.2_9-0-enchilada.img from fastboot but ended up in msm crash dump, but the phone still booted the os. Thanks.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
after booting check the recovery it would be oos stock
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] tiberiuharcsa:
It was booting the pixel os, not oxygen, I didnt get to that part, It didnt boot twrp so I wasnt able to flash oxygen os. My question was what twrp to boot, I tried the version above and end up in msm crash dump.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
For me stock twrp worked the one you mentioned above but if that doesn't work than try nebrassy or maunofrio's twrp unofficial one's that works too. Just after flashing flash finalize and than factory reset and format data. If that doesn't work than flash oos10 (or msm oos10 flash all.bat) latest and than lock the bootloader than update oos11
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] tiberiuharcsa:
Can I flash from fastboot a oos10 without downgrade issues?

Using this method and roms:

https://xdaforums.com/t/rom-stock-fastboot-op6-stock-fastboot-roms-for-oneplus-6.3796665/
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] bhargav patil:
Yes it only required unlocked bootloader, just wipe system/data/cache and boot to Fastboot and flash.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] tiberiuharcsa:
Thanks! I will try.
[OnePlus 6 ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other Devel] kase2804:
Does future releases include the fixes in OOS11 september release? Or do you have to flash OOS11 again?