yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Sleuth, you've been working hard last night! Sorry I haven't replied until now, the site was down all day! I read everything you posted since last night. I'll wait and see whatelse you post in the meantime about the blackstone radio. Have you managed to contact Da_G and ask him his opinion on this matter or maybe he can help with a solution? My device isn't security-unlocked (warranty issues) so I'm not going to try flashing a Blackstone radio. However now that you have narrowed the problem down to a faulty driver/radio and/or gps chip, I think HTC should come up with a remedy for this problem. We have been waiting for to long and getting no kind of response from HTC on this matter when you have now proven that HTC is at fault here.

I'll check u online later!

Edit: P.S. I checked out what you wrote:

If you see a Flags=2 value in HKLM\Drivers\Builtin\GPSID, delete it. Flags=2 tells device.exe that the GPSID driver can be unloaded if inactive. This causes TomTom to need a "kick start" from some other gps software such as VisualGPSce or the HTC GPS tool to acquire a lock when warm starting. It's logical to assume that other navigational software may be similarly affected. Also, if TomTom doesn't see the GPS as a "Built-in GPS Device" then find a ROM with a compatible GPSID. Not sure how many are out there. The one I'm running has this (kudos to Da_G's hard work here btw).

I don't have this Flag=2 value in my registry.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] hopper13:
No Flag on my Fuze either.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
ROMeOS should be sufficient for this requirement right?

I've been using the 1.10.25.25 radio since it came out but I haven't tested GPS much with it. I turned it on this morning and the lag seemed horrible, but I didn't leave it on for very long...and like you mentioned in one of your posts, it seemed to get better the longer you had it on, so I'll have to test that theory as well.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
My current opinion on the "nan" issue is that while it is a bug, it only happens when the GPS first locks. As soon as you start moving the issue goes away and "nan" is replaced by valid heading information. This means that it can't have an ongoing effect on navigational software and so isn't the cause of speed lag.

Another theory that needs to be investigated is raphael hardware revision and its effect on GPS issues. Posters have documented evidence of "recognized hardware problems" that were "being resolved". This throws another wrench into the solution equation. My fuze is brand new with a serial number in the HT846 range. Does it incorporate a "hardware fix" that's missing in earlier versions?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Are these the specs for the GPSOne chip?

- GPS Protocol: NMEA 0183

- Navigation Chip: Qualcomm MSM7201A gpsOne

- Assisted GPS

http://www.qctconnect.com/products/gpsone.html#Technical Specifications

Found this one specifically on the chip: http://www.qctconnect.com/products/msm_7201.html

Actually I have no idea who is at fault here, Qualcomm or HTC? I'm thinking both?? Who normally makes the radio's ? The producer of the device or not ?

I found this article on the web with reference to XDA: http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/do_you_have_gps_lag_on_the_tou.html#comment-25201

For those still wondering what lag is? Please look here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2444726&postcount=1

Edit: My serial number range is: HT834K don't know if this has something to do with it..... Yours seems to be a later model.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] fiuner:
Sleuth255, Are you saying that you have only so called speed lag, but not position lag at all? I always thought that they are connected and the same thing, but if not, how does that speed lag interfere navigating?

I think the most important thing is to find the solution for position lag while driving, because it can make you miss turns and so on.

It may also be that I have understood something wrong here.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
In my opinion, position lag and speed lag are the same, because it takes 4-5 seconds for the navigation to catch up with the actual position. So in that respect, you are correct, they are intwined.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
That's what's fascinating about this issue. I refer to that explanation as "positional lag". I can't re-create that with any of the tests I've done. I can, however, see "speed lag". Interestingly, both functions are handled by processing different nmea statements. I've verified speed lag as being produced by the $GPVTG sentence. Positional lag would be produced by another sentence $GPGGA. It's these two sentences, along with "sticky roads programming" that cause navigational software to move the map.

edit:

If you have "position lag" answer me this: how often is your map being updated? On mine, the map definitely updates (moves) about 3-4 times/second.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
So somehow these 2 statements $GPVTG and $GPGGA are somehow not properly being interpreted by the driver to feed the navigation system with the correct data resulting in lag be it speed and/or positional, correct?

Weird.... it would seem that then it should be a simple fix to correlate the data. Looks like it needs a pair of glasses LOL well... if they can fix the the Hubble telescope with a software/driver update, then they sure can do the same with this GPSOne receiver!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] fiuner:
So basically you can navigate with no problems? I think that the speed lag alone is a very minor issue, if position is correct while you drive.

It would be good if you could do some tests with a device that has real position lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Yes, I can navigate without issues.

Another question for those with positional lag: Are the voice prompts correctly timed? I've read that the answer is yes. Is this correct?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Interestingly, if you look at your $GPGGA statement from the log you posted, it places you at 51 11.332617N by 5 24.347638E. I believe that's off the coast of Norway just north of Scotland. :eek:

Mine, otoh, shows 43N by 87W: off the coast of Lake Michigan where I should be.

Maybe there's a bug with that sentence in older raphaels?

edit: no, there's a bug in the software I used to check. Google shows you just south of Eindhoven on the corner of Voor and Kegel
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] fiuner:
It's not an easy question to answer if you don't have two devices. One with lag and one without. I can't really tell when those voices are really supposed to come out.

In my opinion, it's not just the screen that has the lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Re: the NaN issue, that got me to thinking, one of the debug apps displays a compass.. so i took a closer look at it, it's for a compass made by a company called akemd... they integrate into devices like mobile phones.. the test program can't connect (not even sure if the device has the h/w, but the debug s/w is there..)

if the gpsdriver is trying to grab heading info from the non functional internal compass, that could explain that, at least. and a timeout initializing might explain the lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Yes, this is my exact location! Its in Belgium indeed, just south of Eindhoven.

edit: no, there's a bug in the software I used to check. Google shows you just south of Eindhoven on the corner of Voor and Kegel

On the other hand, I haven't really listened to the voice prompts, I switched off the sound! She was driving me bezerk! But what I remembered they are linked to the distance displayed in the navigation. So if I'm in the program lagging about 50 m, although I passed the intersection I supposed to have turned right in, she will not say my actual position. With other words, the position from the voice prompt is the position u see in the navigation.

So no, they are not correctly timed to actual position but to the position that is being fed to it retarded.

So the data that is coming into the navigation is affecting the correctiveness. This is in TT7 as well as iGO, I tested them both, but TT7 has such an outragous lag I don't use it anymore.

@Da_G: great that you are looking into the matter as well! Say it doesn't have the h/w but the debug s/w is affecting the functionality, wouldn't it be best to disable this debug s/w or will this really screw things up? Sorry, I'm just thinking rational here, I'm not a pro.....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Voice lag in sync with position lag eliminates graphic drivers as causal.

Since I've never experienced positional lag, I can't say if the blackstone radio fixes it.

However, I'm beginning to think that a quiet hardware fix is involved. I have no problems with voice prompts (other than John Cleese who's delivering them... I stick with him b/c the kids die laughing when he's talking).

I'm beginning to believe that "speed lag" is a red herring since I see it on my Tilt as well. Position lag would drive me crazy if I had it.

So what does that leave us with?

If somebody with position lag could perform the following test then we would have an answer:

Remember: I've never had position lag. I can post a YouTube if you don't believe me.

Sooo, the test is simple: Load up my exact ROM/Radio:

Da_G 2.04 with the 1.02.25.28 radio. Now load TomTom v7 VGA and drive.

Got Position lag?

yes=hardware: HTC made a quiet change to the later devices (my bet is here).

no=software: ROM/Radio is the culprit.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
LOL I had John Cleese as well on TT but I changed to Joe Pesci hahahaha but since he was off I kinda ended up in arguments with him who could swear the most hahahaha Too bad you can't get those voices with iGO....

About loading up your ROM and radio, I think I will pass on that one. Maybe someone else that has no problems about warranty and so forth is willing to do the test and see if the issue is h/w or s/w related. Would be interesting to know if they did the test on a lower serial number series as I believe that they maybe have indeed made a quiet fix/change in later models. I just don't get it though, why do it like that and admit you had a problem with the other devices and issue a fix?? Just doesn't make sense.....

Now you know how annoying position combined with speed lag feels like... I think I will grow accustomed to it after a while, just make sure u look at the screen and then look at the road and judge from there, but thats not the way its suppose to work and especially not when you paid 600 euros for it!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] petard:
I have the stock AT&T ROM and Radio (ROM 1.95.502.5 WWE Radio 1.02.25.32) with TomTom 7.910 (9185) and I have a ridiculous amount of lag. About 3-4 seconds of positional AND speed lag.

My S/N is HT844K915XXX and my P/N is 99HEYXXX
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
I remember someone asking here in the forum about which serial number series everyone had that had issues with GPS and those that didn't have issues. I can't seem to find the thread in this maze. But I think that there is some truth in the matter that the newest serial numbers don't have any problems anymore? Could be...

I have HT834K and I have both issues you have, positional AND speed.....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] PeteNewt:
I've done a test with two devices, side by side: Raphael with stock ROM and .28 radio and a Polaris. Both with TomTom (Raphael with the VGA version). At higher speeds the voice instructions are more behind on the Raphael than at lower speeds. At one point (while slowing down from 120km/h to 50 or so) they were even sync while there was still a positional and speed lag on the Raphael.

Now I've adjusted the A-GPS settings as explained here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=444700&page=27:I get a fix within mins, inside my home. Tomorrow I'll do a driving test.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I'm going to create a youtube showing the tests I performed. It'll feature my fuze and my Tilt, side by side running the same version of TomTom with shots out the side windows when I pass side streets. Then I'll load your rom/radio configuration, maw and re-test. Heck, Da_G is churning out ROMs like a man possessed so I'm used to flashing a new ROM every other day... :)

I'm really starting to believe that its a hardware issue that was corrected by a later change. These tests will definitively determine wtf is going on IMHO.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] AllTheWay:
Looking forward to your findings ;)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Hopefully I'll live through the making of the test video: my car's a manual shift and I'll be using the webcam from my laptop (since the phones will be in use for other things).... Maybe I can rig something up with duct tape :rolleyes:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] newsflash40:
I'd be glad to give you some baling wire left over from my last electronics project, which was held together with that and duct tape. :)

Looking forward to your report.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Great! Can't wait to see the video! But please be careful will you?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
I will donate one (1) slightly used roll of duct tape for your valient effort!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Superluminal:
GPS not getting fix.

I've got a Touch Pro using the latest rom (for '3' network in oz). My GPS works fine and I use it all the time with TT Navigator 6.

What I have noticed that after a hard reset or rom update the handset cannot get a fix with Navigator 6. What I do is; Set the GPS settings to 4800 baud and com 4 then soft reset (the GPS already has these settings and I'm not sure this does anything but it seems to) then use the Google Maps app to get a fix which can take twenty minutes or longer on this first occassion. Be patient.

After doing this Navigator 6 and Google Maps get a fix in about 2 minutes from then on. I've no idea why this works and discovered it by accident when Navigator 6 stopped working after a rom update.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
You have a "fix issue" which is different from lag. If you don't have lag, would you mind telling us the first 4 digits of your TP's serial number (its under the battery)?

Some things to look for on fixing your problem:

remove flags=2 value if it exists in HKLM\Drivers\Builtin\GPSID

run the most popular radio in the sticky radio thread (1.02.25.28)

Load a ROM that supports the most current GPSID. Da_G is one, there may be others too.

Turn of AGPS

Enable QuickGPS and set for automatic updates.

You shouldn't need a "kick start" to get an initial fix with TomTom.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Hi Sleuth

I was reading in this other thread all the stuff that Da_G has been researching on the lag issue. I was wondering if you were also tracking this? U can find more information here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=444700&page=26

It seems that changing the values in the driver registry have 0 effect on the responsiveness of the GPS. The only value that has effect is the polling.

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GpsOneDevice\PollInterval -> 100 (default is 1000)

I changed my poll interval from 100 as suggested to 2500. I have to test it and see if this will resolve the lag. Default is 1000, the registry tweak changes this to 250 but this tweak was made for pedestrian mode. I notice that when driving at very low speeds, for instance 15 to 20 km/h like I had to do this morning because of ice and snow on the road, the lag just disappears! If you travel at 40 km/h or more the lag returns. I'm now wondering if changing the poll interval to a higher value will cause the lag to disappear. Maybe because of it polling so much that its not having enough time to process the data. By upping the polling from once every 0,25 sec to once every 2,5 sec maybe it will have an effect on the lagging giving it enough time to process the data correctly?

I'll test it out later on my back home from work and see what effect it has. Otherwise I will go back to default, namely once every 1 second. Can you maybe test this as well and see what effect it has on your device?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bauerpavel:
Well, don't forget that the sattelite network is not static. Neither is the Earth ;-)....just to explain why you'll never get the same number of sattelites at any given location at different times....just sayin'....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Don_Zakaria:
did someone try this with a vario IV? i am wondering what the results are...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] BoldFace:
This tweak worked great for me.... Locks on in about a minute as opposed to 5 minutes that it used to. Have yet to test the lag, will do a drive around and report my findings.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] knight14th:
I haven't applied any patches. Even so the position is very accurate: While driving around the position is nearby exactly where I am. If I stop the car caused by a traffic light the calculated position is even better (within 2m). Driving on a tree-lined road the position is sometimes about 10m by the road.

I can't confirm, there is some lag or so. Also I get the first fix within 30 seconds.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bzdziagwa:
Guys,

I've discovered that problem with my TP GPS is not BAD SIGNAL RECEPTION but general problem with GPS functionality (accessibility I thing)

I'm using Nav iGO8 for one month and I've tested it two or three times without major problems (250m lag to refresh location mentioned earlier is true) but yesterday I've installed simple, well known and reliable - GPS Test v1.04 (latest version afaik)

You know how it works on navigo, automapa, tomtom and so on ?

You dont know what is going till you have a fix (or not)

But with GPS Test it's much simple - GPST starting,initializing GPS hardware and show you GPS signal strenght asap.

What I've found?

Usually when starting, GPS Test need to have couple of minutes to FIND and INITIALIZE GPS HARDWARE ITSELF - There is message on screen "looking for GPS unit" and.....waiting waiting waiting

But sometimes GPS hardware is initialising in 10-15sec, then GPST showing satelites asap.

Situation is random - sometimes I'm waiting 2-3min to initialise, then just simple close and start GPST again and it works in 10sec

Sometimes I need to start GPST couple of times to get access to GPS hardware.

So this is definatelly problem with accessing to GPS hardware and finally reason of lag to get a fix.

GPS is connected on COM4 so maybe something else is using the same COM sometimes?

B.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] docmorphe:
Still you suceeded to connect the GPS... I never got that far. I can't connect, whatever is the com port listened.

I'm now trying to hard reset my TP.

I have also made a thread about it :

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=427156
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] flashmp3:
Hope we have new radio that will solve all this problems
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bzdziagwa:
Do you have any VoIP software installed on your TP or did you use internal VoIP?

I'm asking about VoiP because there is known bug (known from other platforms) that usage of VoIP on WM is responsible for permament GPS problem (HardReset was a solution)

I don't remember if this bug present on Diamond, but maybe this is reason of your problems with GPS.

There is solution to update default VoIP drivers (attached to dedicated thread)

Regards

B.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Maranelloot:
I haven't been able to solve my GPS lag problems yet. Tried all tweaks mentioned here and there, but no luck. It keeps lagging 50+ meters almost constantly.

I tried:

- All tweaks mentioned so far (registry keys, disable agps, disable logging etc)

- Hard reset and only GPS software to test (Tomtom7, McGuider), no other external software, with and without tweaks.

- Custom ROM (DCS V14) with and without the tweaks..

Nothing seems to help. I'm calling HTC this week to see what they have to say about it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] jcespi2005:
mmm i have tested my GPS with same tool, and have no problems conecting with GPS driver anytime... works fine for me... i press Open button and starts receiving data inmedatly...

TomTom7 found the GPS hard about 2-3 seconds...

Cheers
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] indiana99:
Great job!

I am using Garmin Mobile XT. I applied all the tweaks from the first post and the initial fix after a reset is much quicker(3-5 min to less than 40 sec). The small lag that was there is now gone.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] zenkinz:
I just noted that my satellite reception is better when I connect my navigation software to GPS Intermediate driver/port, instead to a physical com 4.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Kevlar-Source:
Y... Como haces eso...

And... How do you do that...

Saludos.

Cheers.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] apokryphus:
Diamond Drivers

Is it possible to use the Diamond drivers and settings?

I startet in cooking rom and i wonder if that is possible..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] egg:
Diamond is just as bad. I'm watching this thread, to see if YOU guys find a solution here :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] gervasius:
NOTHING HELPS :mad:

I really don't know what to do...

My gps doesn't work, with all tweaks...

After 10 minutes fix on satelites, and

after that every minute lost connection,

bad reception... jumping over map,

wrong street (showing 200 meters wrong position)

:mad::mad:

really don't know what to do
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Jorlin:
how do you do that?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] flippy:
Have all u guys made sure your settings are correct? In tomtom use the manual settings, think its called other cabled gps or something, and set baud rate to 9600 this helped me a lot. The answer was found her on xda but cant remeber who posted it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] TomasNM:
I have noticed,that the GPS is working differently inside different cars! In my own car(Volvo 460) I have tested navigation WITHOUT any lag,5 satellites fixed most of the time. Skoda Octavia(bussiness car) is maybe blocking the signal(maybe metsllized windscreen) and the reception is very poor,while iGo/TomTom is confused most of the time. I just stand outside,I got 8 satellites visible,5 fixed(8/5). When I sit into the car,the satellites are lost and sees just 3/2. I will test it with other cars ASAP.

What the hell are the new cars designed for?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Xtreme XL:
new cars come with internal satnav ;)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Flying Kiwi:
Sounds like the Kaiser WM 6.1 upgrade issue all over again.:mad: Unfortunately TP owners don't have the option of reverting to WM 6.0 but I hope you succeed in getting to the bottom of this Sleuth255. I'm just following this thread with interest having owned a TyTN II since they first came out I was considering upgrading - that is until I found out more about the TP. If HTCs record to date is anything to go on it looks as if there are still further low level driver and software issues preventing these devices from working as well as they should. Your earlier point about there possibly having been a quiet hardware change to address the lag issue is interesting. Maybe there'll be something like the Intel Pentium 90 CPU maths bug recall as a result if you succeed in proving a hardware fault and getting word out to the media:eek:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] telegraph0000:
Seeing as how we can resize the arrow icon, even superimpose an image of a car on it...wouldn't it be feasible to somewhow change/move the cursor's location up via the sys.txt to compensate for the lag? But that would leave actual location behind, wouldn't it...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Superluminal:
@Sleuth

S/N first 4 digits (after HT) 838K. Hard reset the Pro tonight to test and tried the GPS first with Navigator and after more than 45 minutes on my window ledge it was still searching for a valid GPS signal. Ran Google Maps got a fix after 13 minutes and one retry then switched straight to Navigator and it got fix 30 seconds later. Seems more than coincidence.

As for lag I can't swear I don't get it. I use the GPS driving and really only look at the screen when I've slowed down and it may have "caught up". Voice directions appear to be timely. I will try and check more closely.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
My poll interval is set at 250. That's 4 times/second.