yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] juwenio:
new official rom will come...

today i phoned htc europe support because i have to return my phone for repairing the g-sensor; by the way i asked if there is also a solution for the gps-lag and he told me that a new rom will come out in the next weeks (there are on testing it actually) and gps will be part of it; i don´t want to comment this statement but maybe a really solution will come :cool: - lets keep our fingers crossed

juwenio
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
Maybe its just coincidence then, but I still had the speed lag when I had the poll interval at 1000. I was trying the same values you were trying (1500, 1250, 1000, etc) and always had speed lag.

I just changed it down to 200 and I will test it on my way to work this morning (with the other values the same as I mentioned in my other post).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
fwiw, the poll interval on my Kaiser is set to 500 (a value I've never used on my Fuze). I'll run my fuze with that setting and see if speed lag evens out between the two.

I'm unconvinced that the other values have no function. Its supported by MSDN documentation and disassembly investigations with ida, but empherical evidence seems to slant otherwise. Maybe it is a placebo effect, but speed lag should be easy to measure (stop the car, now how long before GPS says zero?).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
I'm going to try the polling at 500 as well, I can't remember if I tried this already, but what the heck.....

Great news that HTC will be coming with a new ROM/radio! Lets hope that its true, and that it will help a lot of problems we are having with GPS, battery life, interface, and so on....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I set the PollInterval to 100 and it made no difference. The other settings seemed to have eliminated my speed lag completely though.

Today I had my Tilt running side by side with my Fuze. Using the DK4 ROM and the 1.71 radio (I think that's what it was). His ROM had all the default GPS settings I believe. Buffers at 4096 and PollInterval at 1000.

For passing intersections there's an obvious difference between the two. The Tilt was almost exact as I passed intersections. However, when I came to a stop sign the Tilt kept going and put me past the intersection whereas the Fuze stopped me in the right position and showed me just before the intersection.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I'll try your settings during the drive home. I should have results in 2-3 hours when I leave for lunch.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
mindfrost, which buffers are you referring to that you have at 4096 ?

These are my settings:

InputBufferSize: 512

OutputBufferSize: 512

SleepOnNoData: 100

MaxBufferSize: 512

PollInterval: 1000

BTW, tested PollInterval 500 and the lag was enormous! So changed it back to 1000.....

Let me know which buffer you have at 4096, ok?

Thanks!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
It was the InputBuffer and OutputBuffer on my Tilt, not my Fuze.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
ah okay... I was wondering, so I will try your settings from the Fuze and see what it does. Have to go out now so I can test and report back later.....

EDIT: did you try the buffersize from the Tilt on the Fuze? If so, can you report what setting the buffer to 4096 did with the accuracy? Wouldn't making the buffersize greater increase the data processing of the information better than lowering it?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I did try it last night and I don't think it made it any better or worse than when it was at 256 or 512.

I did notice that the phone seemed slower than it was with the lower settings.

EDIT: BTW, which lag was enourmous with the PollInterval at 500? I'm happy with my settings for my speed lag, now I just need to figure out the positional lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
I just got back, I changed my settings to match yours, and I must say the speed lag is now a lot less, however still have positional lag.... seems that can't be fixed with everything we tried.

I guess we will have to wait until HTC comes with that new ROM and radio to fix the GPS problems....

Edit: What if we put buffers at an even lower setting? Like 64 or 32 ? It might speed up the device... just a thought...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
hmmm... I just finished the test myself and can't say that I'm noticing a lot of difference. We just got 5" of snow dumped on us however and the roads are packed snow. So when the position indicator slid into the intersection it was more often than not because I actually was sliding into the intersection.... :eek:

IOW, it's hard to see speed lag when you actually have it... I'll test more when the roads dry out.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I'm loading the new PROven ROM which is supposed to have new GPS drivers from the Diamond 2.03 ROM. I'll test it on my way home and see what happens.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Yeah I know the feeling... we have this weather for the last week! You can't really drive on this packed snow, the car goes sliding all over the damn road! Just drive slooooooow and don't make any sudden turns, better yet, don't go on the road if you don't need to!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Mine has the diamond drivers. I'd be interested to see if that makes a difference for you...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
The previous versions used the drivers from the Diamond 2.00 OEM ROM, and now his 1.10 version is using the 2.03 Test ROM.

I'm stuck at work for another 2 hours before I can test lol
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
There's basically no difference between 2.03 and 2.00 drivers, all they did was add the 2.03 version string :(
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Where could I get the newer drivers from without them cooked into a rom? Thanks.

I did load the Ausie Radio 20M1 and it finds the sats really quick, though that wasn't my issue. I'm still getting lag. I find it hard to believe its a hardware issue. I've been working on aircraft GPS systems for 19years in the Air Force and have never seen one fail for being slow... It usually cannot find the sats or the Almanac was lost due to dead batteries. Very strange problem indeed...hmm

Maybe the driver from the diamond will help or the latest BS radio. I'm leaning towards the driver.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Some portions may have to be cooked in since they would be a part of the RIL. GPSID may be cabbable. Its only a device driver.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
My lag was still there with the new PROven version. Oh well, I guess we'll just wait for a hopefully official fix from HTC on this one.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
Tried it. I see no difference in position lag with 6 vs. 7.910.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Looks like hardware to me then. Fixed in HT846. Aside for the radio, you're running an identical config to one I tested and you have position lag. The only thing I can suggest is to go with the 1.02.25.28 radio.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
re: Blackstone 1.10.25.25 radio

As promised.

Power usage: about the same as 1.02.25.28

Call quality: crystal clear, seems better than 1.02.25.28

Signal strength: the same or slightly better than 1.02.25.28

GPS lock acquisition time: where this radio really shines! I've never had a fix so fast!

All in all, an awsome radio. If you can get security unlocked, I highly recommend this. Otherwise, 1.02.25.28 is the best I've tried.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
Using my setup below and running GPSTest and locking into a signal before starting iGO (latest), results in a cold start of about 30 seconds tops, warm and hot almost instantly 1-5 seconds max for warm but trying all sorts of different tweaks nothing is fixing the 2-3 second delay when looking at my current position and even my speed appears to be off but i think that just goes with the delay and that my speedometer could just be slightly off (2mph average at ~35-40mph).

Haven't tried disabling TF3D but honestly I doubt it's software at this point.

Ugh! >_>
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
If X2D has HT847 with lag and Sleuth has HT846, I'm not so sure its a hardware problem since X2D's should be newer.

Sleuth and maw, have you done it with TF3D disabled? I haven't tried that, I've always had it running. I don't really think that's the issue either, but it could be anything at this point I guess.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Well X2D, you just blew the hardware theory to pieces... :)

Could you load TomTom Navigator from this link so we have one less thing to blame?

This should give you:

HT847 Raphael running at least Da_G v2.05

TomTom v6.032.8351

1.02.25.28 Radio

over 2 second position lag

I do not run TF3D btw.

edit: If you are running the latest Da_G then you aren't afraid of hard resetting often. :) Maybe you could help us out with a baseline test: Hard reset but don't run UC (leave your sd card out). Now load TomTom v6 from the link above, get your free map and go driving. Got position lag?

Anyone can try this test btw. If you have a stock rom, reset your Raphael when you see the customizaton will load in 2 seconds dialog.

The only caveat is that you may need to wait forever to get that first fix since customization may load quickgps location URLs. Manually load a gps tool like VisualGPSce and fire it up with your device in a location where it has a clear view of the sky. Disable auto sleep mode then wait up to 10-20 minutes for that first cold fix.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
The install w/TT above didn't go well. I found another version 7.910. loaded up and d/l the free map. I will test drive today and report back. I also security unlocked and loaded the newest BS radio. If this doesn't work who knows what it can be. Maybe a driver for the GPS since I'm using NATF's v1.1 rom. I've tweaked it to the max and eventually will update when I have more time. I also defragged my 8g mem card since I have about 6.5g worth of stuff all over it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
I will be able to conduct more tests later this afternoon, I am currently installing the latest version of Garmin to see what happens, going to test with and without TF3D I doubt a hard reset is going to do anything for me because I keep my phone really tidy and don't install useless stuff, but the things I want to test:

TT 6/Garmin XT/TT 7/iGO 8/OCN8

*-W/ TF3D Enabled/W/ TF3D Disabled

*-before and after a hard reset

*-before and after any applicable registry tweaks?

*-with and without assisted GPS

(Radio - 28, Latest Da_G's)

Because I'm so OCD I have to pre-initialize the GPS via GPSTest after making sure my QuickGPS is updated. Any other suggested apps or tweaks loaded during this sort of test? The application used really so far isn't doing anything for me as far as "Tom Tom is better than iGO or Garmin is better than both", they all have their quirks and they all have a delay in both the speed I'm currently traveling at (could be slightly off on my car's speedometer though), and when I come to a stop it takes ~2-3 seconds average for my GPS to actually think I'm stopped.

Will post tonight if any of the above actually resulted in less or nonexistent "lag".
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Hardware problem theory is back... You may be misunderstanding the kind of lag we're talking about X2D.

Speed lag as you just described it is present everywhere, even on older devices (check my video from this post to see it in action on a Tilt). What we're really concerned about here is position lag, whereby your position shown on the device lags behind your real time position as you're driving at a constant speed. You can tell how much this is by starting a stopwatch when you pass a side street then stop it when the position indicator on the map passes by the same side street. Do you actually have 3 seconds of this type of lag?

edit: It may be possible to correct "speed lag". We are currently looking at different registry settings that appear to affect this. I have the tweaks installed on my device and will be driving around a bit this morning now that the roads have dried off.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
Short answer YES

So annoying, I just tried Garmin and it's worse. Tried Garmin on the way to mcdonalds and then on the way back tried iGO again and I dunno. That's what I meant by position lag because you can pass a street and then look at your iGO and 2 seconds later your virtual car passes the street. TF3D disabled, everything above done except for hard reset and I have to go to work in like an hour so I'll do that after work unless you can think of something better to test.

Thats the main issue and position lag will correct everything else as far as speed lag I would assume, it's just picking up that I'm 2 seconds behind where I actually am. When I say speed lag I mean if I'm going 40 constantly for ~2-3 minutes straight (cruise control on a level straight ground), I would ASSUME that it would match 40, but it says 37 the entire time which makes me think about how car speedometers are slightly off sometimes and that the real issue is the positioning. (note I could be wrong about the car thing, still no solid evidence to back that up, I just know on my motorcycle it's way off but it's a known issue)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] kk0813:
Exactly this is what happening with my phone too. I just installed NATF 4.1 this morning. Did a hard reset, also did a reset when customization starts (So TouchFlo 3D is not installed). Installed Iguidance and TOMTOM v7.910.9185. Gps updats the position 2 -3 sec after I pass the street. Also when I make a complete stop, I can still see 20 mph on gps, slowly coming down to 7 mph, 1 mph, and then 0 mph. It's taking 2 - 3 sec to show 0 mph.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
I've never actually had the opportunity to see or use real-time GPS so this whole technology in the palm of my hand is freaking unreal and just being able to do it is a thrill. I can't imagine how cool it would be for it to be spot on with absolutely no delay, I think that's wishing too much and I expect some delay but so far iGO is the most accurate but it might be how far I have my map zoomed. =p~

The most significant thing that just jumps right out at you is when you come to a stop and your gps still thinks you're going, I think every day street driving around my local town is fine. I wonder how this would manage in a really busy busy part of the US where you are doing a lot of stopping and going and you absolutely need to know when to turn right (not 2 seconds later lol). The best thing so far I've found is to instead of just sit there and watch my phone and not the road, is to occasionally (..haha) glance at the road to see incoming intersections and zoom out more on my display to pre-guess which street is actually the right street. Can't forget to look at the road, sometimes the display is just too pretty to look at a dull street.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Sleuth,,, what performance settings you using? File cache, etc? using Adv Config. This lag issue is really boggling. I may try to turn A-GPS back on and use the HTC test and see if I can fine align the GPS. It probably won't work. Also has anyone compared the AT&T Navigator to see if it lags?

Still searching...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Have I got the only Raphael without position lag? Damn! :confused:

Performances:

file system cache enabled

file system cache size auto

file system filter cache disabled

pnp unload delay 1500

pnp wait I/O delay 1500

glyph cache 32KB

nothing unusual.

Also: aGPS just helps with acquire time. If you're locking in a reasonable time period then QuickGPS, aGPS and your radio are working correctly.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
How far do you have it zoomed compared to my video? Is your lag different from the video when zoomed at the same level?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Here's something:

When using GPS test, how fast are the NMEA strings going by on the display? Mine go by so fast you can't read them. This is how fast navigation software would be getting data. If it's got 2 seconds of position lag then its logical to assume that it is reading nmea data that is 2 seconds behind what's being output. So there's 2 seconds of buffered data somewhere.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
It sure would be nice if somebody besides me would post a youtube of TomTom running on a raphael showing position lag... If I see position lag happening during a run like the one I made then maybe I can draw some additional conclusions.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Thanks for your settings Sleuth, pretty close to mine. I changed anyhow to yours. Thanks for having the only working GPS on your TP...lol

Has anyone tried reducing the buffers to 0 or really low? Maybe just the output buffers.

HTC test has the data going by pretty quick. I think it went quicker when I changed to 38400. I think it slowed down when I selected 9600/4800.

I'm going for a quick drive to try TT 7 out for a test.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I use 115200 whenever I have to use a COM4 setting. TomTom 7 sees me as a built-in GPS due to the diamond GPS drivers however so I don't need to enter a port setting/speed there.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
Does your's continuously scroll? Mine will scroll until the little window fills up, then its like it pauses for a second or two, then it'll scroll until it fills up again and pause again.

We just got a bunch of snow today, so I won't be able to do a video for a few days, hopefully sometime next week.

I could take a video of my HTC GPS Tool for you though.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Same here. It should be pausing on $PSTIS which is a proprietary NMEA sentence.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
It pauses there but its also pausing at $GPGSA.

This is inside though, so I don't have a lock.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Same here with no fix. $GPGSA shows the active satellites when fixed. While writing this, mine obtained a fix and its now only stopping on $PSTIS.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Ok, back from test drive. TT7 had big lag at first, after a few it reduced to about 3sec after each street passing.

I'm changing the input buffers to 256 and the output to 128. Polling is at 250.

I did change to 115 / 57 / 96 etc for the comm settings, it all seems to fill the page the same. I will prime TT7 this time with the HTC tool alone. Then shut it off and give it another test drive..be back in a few.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Here's something that might provide a clue: When you start up from a dead stop, what heppens:

It takes 2-3 seconds for the map to start moving after you get going.

map starts moving when you do but the lag slowly increases until it reaches a constant delay. Delay is related to speed (less at low speed more at high speed).

edit: wife had an idea: how many bars do you have from a signal strength perspective? Mine's damn near always on 5 as shown in the video.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Map doesn't move right away.

Seems to catch up slowly after coming to a stop. I complete a turn and I can then watch the screen make the turn and catch up.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Interesting. That points to 2-3 seconds of buffered nmea data that's slowly being read by the navigation software. Remember, even when stopped the nmea sentences are flying by so the map would delay. Let me check my GPSID settings...

edit

hmmm... nothing leaps out except multiplexer buffer size. I'll make a cab of my entire GPS Intermediate Driver key if somebody wants to test.

Theory here is that the buffer is filled up then made available to nav software in last-in last-out order. Buffer contains 3 seconds of nmea strings.

Edit2: Cab of my HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver key along with all subkeys/values is attached. Back yours up because I don't know if it will restore your old settings when you uninstall it. Also, power off then power back on after installing as this will make sure that the reg settings stick and that your GPSID is using them.

Edit3: In fact, to insure that you have only my settings, you should delete your entire GPS Intermediate Driver key before installing this cab.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
I had experimented with buffer settings before, in my expierience when the buffer is set too low, it ends up starving and the gps disconnects, times out, and reconnects in an endless loop.. i never saw any improvements from it though :(

I was nosing around the RIL driver, and I noticed there's a registry setting it reads that doesn't exist in any ROM i've seen:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\RIL]
"AGPSFeature"=dword:0

It defaults to 0 without a set value, wonder what it's for?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
How does one mess with the buffer settings? Were you referring to multiplexer buffersize or some other setting?

edit: I would expect that FIFO buffering is exactly what noellenchris has perfectly described. Whether everybody else is affected the same way depends on how their experience matches his. As such I would attribute it to the GPSID.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
no matter how far i zoom im still getting a couple second delay from me passing an intersection or making a turn, testing htc gps tool to see if there are any noticable pauses and will report back
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Could somebody experiencing position lag post a reg containing their HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver key along with the sub keys/values.

use dotFred and just export the key then attach. Thx!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I just took apart gpsid_htc.dll

Among the registry values it uses, try checking here:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlset\GPS Intermediate Driver\Multiplexer

You all do have MaxBufferSize set to 256 right?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
it was set to 512.....going to p/u chinese food and will report back.

I changed to 256. Along w/other buffer changes I mentioned above. Be back in 30min....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Power off/back on (do not just press reset) after making changes to insure that reg settings stick and that the GPSID uses them. Or you can use dotfred to stop/restart the gpsid device.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Ok...good news finally. The position lag is a lot less. Now it's tough to remember when I stopped counting. Was it at the tip of the tomtom arrow...? lol. It's between 1-2sec pos lag.

input buffer = 256

output buffer = 128

max buff =256..

gonna eat my chinese food and will report more. also under usb settings in reg, I changed the serial hardware to enable. I will post details in a few.

It's not perfect but much better. thanks guys..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Right, yeah maxbuffersize was what i was referring to.. sorry I was on the road, so didn't want to type it out.. got that no texting while driving law in california now.. lol :P
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I think its the MaxBufferSize value in Multiplexer that may make the most difference. My Tilt doesn't even have this setting. If you halved the value and your position lag is now half of what it was then try 128 and see if you can navigate....

The MSDN for this value indicates that NMEA data is stored there for software that uses the GPSID RAW data (COM port) interface. If TomTom isn't showing a built-in GPS device in your configuration, try setting your baud rate to the max it goes. I use 115200 for my software that uses COM4.

edit: GPSID also parses the NMEA strings itself and makes it available via an API.... VC!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I can't even surf on my fuze while driving... I'd hit something for sure... :o
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
I installed your cab and well not the best test yet but im inside a building and can get a fix on more satellites as long as im outside, going to go driving in about twenty min what would changing my baud to highest do over the 38400 that gpstest maxes out at? im still going to try just wondering for technical sake.