yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
Will give your first cab a shot then hard reset and try the second cab, when I get home the only thing I'm going to mess with is GPS and continue to watch this thread.

Da_G's stripped ROM

- Hard Reset upon first Flash, Update QuickGPS, Install/Run GPS Test to initiate the cold start.

- Run various Nav apps for a test drive (I notice myself moving as soon as I leave my driveway but do you guys know if it takes any amount of time for the GPS to essentially "sync" with my position? I wouldn't think so as it should have already done that with the lockon with GPS Test and stay locked on when running the Nav software)

-- Based on the above test results if it's still failing I will do another Hard Reset, Install your first cab, Update QuickGPS, Install/Run GPS Test which should already be warm

-- Again run various Nav apps to test position delay

--- Based on the last test results if it's still failing I will do another Hard Reset, Install your SECOND cab, Update QuickGPS, Install/Run GPS Test which should already be warm

--- Run various Nav apps to test position delay

Two questions, do the first and second cabs have a massive difference?

Second question is should I close GPS Test or continue to keep it running while I'm in the car.

I'll think of more questions and try to do as much testing as I can, I'm kind of a newb at all of this and I'm learning as I go but let me know if I can be more effecient and I will do whatever I can to post results, and do specific testing.

Edit:

This is one thing I've wanted to try but I don't have an external GPS receiver. So you are STILL receiving the position lag where it shows you a few meters behind where you really are?

Does it delay a couple seconds when going from any MPH to 0?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
@aevh: Ok, that's a Bluetooth GPS receiver. How did you set it up? The traditional way is to add to paired devices then create a new outbound serial port and attach to the BT GPS device you just created. Use the BT manager for this. Next, set your navigation software to use the port you just created. The GPSID doesn't generally get involved here.

Are you sure that you aren't unknowingly still using the internal GPS ;)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
The second cab is identical to the first except that I've pulled all device specific references (such as the name of the GPSID driver dll). Don't install the first cab because it will break your GPSID unless Da_G named the new dll gpsid_htc.dll.

You must close GPS test once you have obtained a fix. Make sure the navigation software is all that's using the GPS when you go driving.

The rest of you with position lag are doing this right? If you have two programs accessing the GPS stream then it might contribute to position lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] hopper13:
haha... not sure I'm up for trying to security unlock and flash the radio yet, I'm an "end user" type. ;-) That said, I may have poked and prodded enough to require the dreaded hard reset and reinstallation of tons of stuff soon anyway... things are less stable than the once were.

Here is today's data. All results are agps-off and obtained using TomTom 7.9 after a soft reset, cab installation and power off/on. Skys are clear, time to lock is with the phone on the dash of my Land Cruiser (too icy for the Mini today) facing south giving the phone a clear view of approx 180 degrees azimuth and 90 degrees of vertical inclination.

Time to initial lock: 8:32

Time to subsequent locks: 0:17

Speed lag @ 22 mph: 5 seconds

Speed lag @ 44 mph: 8 seconds

Position lag: <1 sec to 1.8 seconds tested with speeds up to 45 mph.

Conclusions. The position lag does seem to have improved with this cab and imho is now quite acceptable. It should be noted that position lag appears to be somewhat variable, better when speed is decreasing and worse under acceleration. I have attempted to take all observations when the speed has been stabilized for at least 10 seconds prior.

Thanks to Sleuth and others for their hard work!!!!!!

Just my .02... your lag may vary....

hopper
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] petard:
Could someone with some navigation software on their laptop conduct a test?

I think it would be good to get one of those programs that outputs the GPS data to a computer, and use that on a laptop to see if that also lags.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
Will give the stripped rom + second cab a shot and report back, might make a trip home to install this ROM lol, really anxious to get to some real work instead of ya know, my job. :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
@hopper13: Thanks for testing :) "ylmv" lol...

Security unlocking isn't for the faint of heart. It requires flashing an "intermediate" radio first and can be a real nail-biter.

I'll re-run my tests with acceleration involved in the position lag determination. I need to find a nice straight road with lots of side streets for the side-by-side tilt/fuze test. Based on how TomTom uses $GPVTG data (with known speed lag), I can see position lag increasing under acceleration then "catching up" once cruising speed has been obtained. I would imagine that this artifact affects my Tilt as well however since it also exhibits speed lag.

edit:

Actually, my video already has that. Granted it wasn't 0-60 in 5 seconds acceleration testing but it did show that my Tilt and my Fuze tracked pretty much identically as I accelerated normally up to 45-50mph. This means that if position lag increases during acceleration then both devices show it on the map about the same.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
I'm testing Da_G's rom, I just flashed it and I have Visualgpsce running right now. When I run Tomtom will I have to set it to other nmea/comm 4 instead of built-in gps?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
I set it to "Built-in GPS". If you get position lag, try tossing in GPSIDregfix.cab as well.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
I tried both built in and other NMEA and Tomtom says "No GPS device!" Google MAPS and Visualgpsce worked just fine. Any thoughts?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
I think you have to hard reset your device. I had that problem as well, seems that something got deleted in your registry that shouldn't have been deleted.... so hard reset, restore your backup and try something else. I hope you made a backup....
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] aevh:
GPS Lag

Hi Sleuth255,

At first I did, than after some fiddling it got instead of my default Com4 (4800) none to BT GPS receiver inside the Quarz. The pairing was no issue, I set up a Com 5 for it outward, but GXT didn't find it, so I told it to get the BT GPS instead, when I switched off the Quarz I got the message from GXT that it was missing it's GPS fix, so technically I did get it right (I suppose).

What I saw was that the external GPS mouse was just as bad as the internal one, but maybe somebody can check their old GPS mouses with this kind of setup. I'll however do some testing tomorrow.

Cheers and thanks,

Edward
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
That could be normal. Mine does it too when I first load up TomTom. Wait a few seconds (usually about 10 and it should switch to searching).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
Nope, I waited minutes and it stayed on No GPS device. I just hard reset per maw's advise. Let's see what that does.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Curious, maybe gpsid_htc.dll mangles the nmea sentences in some way to make them 'more compatible'

I see the position lag in google maps, so that's what i'll be using to test when I go to starbucks in a minute..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
I noticed after I clear the GPS or power off, the GPS does a cold start and can take a long time (up to 10min) to find some sats. It only happens sometimes. Anyhow I'm doing the same thing....waiting.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
Nope, Tomtom still stayed on "No GPS device!" after hard reset. Shouldn't it switch from No GPS to waiting for valid signal or something? I even tried Tomtom 6 too. I guess I will try to test with Google Maps then.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Can you turn on logging with advanced config then post some logs? I can look at the nmea sentences to see what's up.

also try starting with gps test then leave it running & run TomTom. If tomtom sees the gps, close gps test.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
Sure, I'll post some logs. I also tried leaving Visualgpsce running with Tomtom and no difference.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Ninja1:
OK, added this and did a couple of tests. Time to first fix about 90 seconds--last download from QuickGPS this am (auto download at 10am). Went for a quick walk with the dog and tracking was very accurate in Google Maps and Live Search. Will go for a quick drive during half time.

To limit variables I am still running DaG 2.06. Will try the MS GPSID build later if needed.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Testing GPSID_HTC is great, but wouldn't testing the MS GPSID eliminate GPSID as a source of lag alltogether (or prove that it IS the source of lag)

the MS GPSID is known good (it's used in many production builds that do not have this lag)

So if MS GPSID has the same lag, tweaking all these params isn't gonna do a lick of good since the source is more low level than that..

but if MS GPSID does not have the same lag, it's worthy to persue tweaking gpsid_htc.dll to try and equal it.. or just use it instead :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
True, but I don't have position lag. My proof is on post 400. Wouldn't that also say that GPSID isn't the issue? I don't see why we can't pursue both avenues. Any data is good data.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] petard:
I installed GpsGate on my FUZE and my laptop. I have MapPoint 2009 on my laptop, so I passed the GPS data on to that. I am seeing the exact same position (and therefore lag) on my laptop and on my FUZE (it was running TomTom at the same time the laptop was tracking in MapPoint 2009).

I think this proves that it is for sure not a graphics or navigation software issue. The problem lies before the outputted GPS data.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Of course, I only made the post because he said "if needed" so I wanted to make sure it's understood that it is needed :)

Because if the problem still occurs with MS GPSID, we're barking up the wrong tree.. need to look at gpsdriver.dll or the radio rom itself

Personally I think it's some averaging algorithm that needs to be toggled off with a bit in the radio configuration NV.. i've been trying to get into that for some time now but I haven't had luck.. can't just access it through MFG bootloader like we could on the kaiser..

Edit: Here's a build with all HTC GPS stuff stripped except QuickGPS.. it does the epheremis injection in the background before you even connect to the gps, so I don't see why it would cause the lag.. so at least the initial fix is nice and fast still :P

http://rapidshare.com/files/182179124/2.07-pre-agps-stripped-with-quickgps.rar
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
I enabled logging in Advanced Config and let GPS Test run for a while but the text file is blank. In Advanced Config I set Log File: \GPSLogFile.txt and Max. log file size: 32768. Do I need to do anything else?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
IMHO, there's three issues with Raphael GPS and they are all unrelated:

Initial Fix times

Position Lag

Speed Lag

I think that point 1 is solved. It's radio related. To see what I mean you need to be security unlocked because you need to observe the way an initial fix happens using the PRN slots panel in VisualGPSce with a Raphael then with a Blackstone radio. Prior to blackstone, there are always 16 slots shown (satellites visable) with PRN's on 8. These are random PRNs though and they switch around until one gets a signal. Then when signal is above 28 for a given time, the display readjusts to show actual birds visable. This is a cold-start sequence. It looks like ephemeris data isn't being properly injected. The Blackstone radio shows a whole different sequence.

Position lag looks like a GPSID FIFO issue which is why adjusting maxbuffersize in multiplexer appears to affect it. I'm looking forward to reviewing the logs from the MS_GPSID because I was under the impression that nmea strings themselves are generated by the radio and accessed through the RIL by the gpsdriver. This is supported by the fact that the sentence sequence changed when I loaded the blackstone radio.

Speed lag is generated by the chip and expressed in $GPVTG. It doesn't have much effect on navigation so I'm not very focused on it.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Make sure logging is enabled then see if data appears. Once you have a fix let it run for a bit then shutdown. I'd like to see actual fix data. thx!

edit: hang on while I check msdn to see where the enable setting is...

edit2: hmmm... just having the name should enable logging. Did you power off then back on?

check the key HLKM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver

the filename should be in CurrentLogFile
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
I had some trouble getting a fix after setting maxbuffersize = 128. I will resume after this Giants vs Eagles game...lol Originally changing this setting to 256 from 512 halfed my pos lag. Maybe coincidence? Furthur testing should reveal.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] btprice2001:
Figured it out, I didn't have anything for Old log file. Here's the log file. I'm more than happy to test anything specifically, so let me know if there's anything you'd like me to try.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Ninja1:
OK, OK! I know that it is needed, but like Sleuth I think that any data is good data to have. Just want to avoid flashing HTC/MS builds back and forth to test this and that. Would rather stay on 1 buils and exhaust it before moving on.

Half time, score is 10 to 8. Time to go for a drive.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
GPS and BS radio

Sleuth, noellenchris en Da_G

Got a question since you both 3 are using the BS radio. Do you all have this when using GPS that its going off and on all the time?? I find it weird, I haven't had this problem with my previous radio, can it damage the GPS chip or not?

Let me know if you all have this problem.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Trolly333:
GPS lag

I also had gps lag, but not anymore. I use Tomtom and everything works fine now.

Earlier in this thread i posted my sollution, some registry settings needed to be done.

These settings i found on another board and posted them here with credits to the original

poster.

Finally someone else copied these settings from my post and started his own post. Maybe you have to ask him, he seems to know more (search xda for it).

My problems have gone away and im very happy with my tp now..hope you solve yours soon. Im keeping my fingers crossed for all those who still have problems :(

Mark
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] pajaa:
Hi,

after you stopped the car how many sec Tomtom need to show speed "0"

Regards
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Trolly333:
gps lag

Hi Pajaa,

I normally don't look at it (as it works fine) but it seems like 1 second or so.

The problem that tt said 'go right in 10 meters' whilst i was already long past the exit has gone completely though. 99% of the time it's spot on now.

Furthermore i noticed that in the old situation (original without editing registry) when i was sitting in front of the traffic light, the screen would twist and turn, like tt was searching for a good fix. Now, after applying the registry edits, tt doesn't do that anymore.

So i'm happy. But....the reception is far worse than my old P3300 which was perfect. I believe that the hardware used now is crappy opposed to the sirfstar3 gps module in the P3300. What on earth made HTC abandon sirfstar3...no idea but it was a baaaad move.

Ok, maybe it's driver related i'm no expert. But atm to me it seems obvious it's hardware related (reception anyways).
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Maranelloot:
My TP is going back to HTC because of the GPS problems. I tried everything, the registry settings, different custom ROMs, different GPS software (Tomtom6, Tomtom7, Igo8, McGuider), but nothing seemed to help...

I hope they can find a solution for the problem...

For now I'm switching back to a Tytn2, which at least has no GPS lag...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] ronh:
I installed TomTom in internal memory (hey, the Pro has lots of memory to spend :devil:)

And that helped a lot.

Just a smal lag of 5mtrs, but that can also be the accuracy of the GPS.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] adolfotregosa:
guys try this in conjunction with the registry mods

Install portsplitter, write yourself com4, choose 4800 and add com6, press start.

Now on tomtom 7 choose the nmea option, 4800 and the new com 6 : port splitter

What i saw for the first time was ""12"" satelites on tomtom after some minutes of driving and tomtom was much more responsive. Ok still not perfect but i notice the diference.

I remember this because generally on the samsung pdas you have to use that program for tomtom to work with the internal gps (omnia , i780)

Post feedback.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] crocodile010:
Hi,

I suppose you keep the maps on card anyway, right? Which version of TT?

I have got TT7 installed in internal memory since the beginning but there still is a lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] dav3ywrx:
Well Done!!

Well, you guys have done it again!!

I was really in two minds as to whether I should go for the TP after reading some of the reports here but in the end I did and signed up to Vodafone.

It arrived this weekend and one of the things I had concerns over was the GPS performance. I gave it a test with some GPS software and even after 45 mins of being outside and it seeing 13 satellites it still couldn't give me a fix, no good at all.

Settings:

COM4 - 9600.

Just before boxing it back up and sending it back I thought I'd give the suggestions outlined at the beginning of this thread a try. After this the GPS reception seemed far more 'aggressive' and got me a fix within 30 seconds with A-GPS disabled (as the SIM's not active yet and I don't have a data connection).

Tested with TomTom V6.010 and it perfect in the car too.

So, as I said, well done to you guys!.

Cheers,

D.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Don_Zakaria:
and finally! i have a fix...this was the solution. thx a lot :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] cracou111:
Hi everybody,

My problem with the TP is also this +- 50 m lag but I noticed that the vocal instructions of tt7 are accurate! It says "turn right" precisely where I have to (this is just for example, I don't turning around ;-));)

So is it a problem with the video driver? I didn't have any lag with my Diamond with exactly the same configuration.

I tried all the tweaks, TT is in internal memory, removed the PI, ...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] hugo5:
Some observations

Greetings to all!

So I've had my device for quite some time now, and since I have still not changed my mobile telephony provider (but will after october) I decided to have 2 handsets carried with me all the time (I am used to it anyways!) and hence not to rush things but give the TP a thorough testing. Here's, what I've observed:

First of all I have to state, that GPS reception is not bad at all. That said, I have to clarify: Without the tweaks it is quite bad. I am quite spoiled by a Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx device, which I regularly use outdoors, and I have to say that I use this as sort of reference.

I use IGO8 by the way, and don't intend to use anything else.

Before applying the tweaks the reception was jumpy to say the least when standing still, afterwards it got ok. Here I have to add, that I also changed the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\GPSMode from 2 to 1. This having the effect, that the GPSOne chip doesn't use the QuickGPS provided data and works autonomously. The first fix in this case takes really long to happen (around 30 Minutes) as the device has to get the Ephemeris Data from the satellites, but the following fixes are quite fast. I've read that using this configuration also sort of disables "static navigation" on GPSOne modules (although I know, that static navigation is a feature of SIRF chips and as such cannot be disabled or enabled in Qualcomm chips! :cool:).

The lag issue is something different. I don't seem to experience much difference in the lag within IGO with or without the tweaks. But I don't really know if this issue isn't simply caused by an "inaccuracy" of the map data. I am not suggesting that the maps themselves are inaccurate, but often I find my acutal position quite far away (saying 50 meters!) from the position on the road where I am actually. This of course is somehow corrected by the stick to road setting, but nevertheless gives a reason for a lag.

But why is the position inaccurate? I once had the problem with an older Garmin device, that I used an inaccurate ellipsoide setting, giving me quite annoyingly a wrong position. I wonder if this was the case with the GPSOne device, meaning that it was not set to WGS84. The problem is, that I couldn't find any reference as to where to change this setting in the first place.

My next round of testing will be to use my Garmin device and TP at one time in navigation using Garmin's mobile XT software. With this software I can use the exactly same maps as on my GPSMAP and can directly compare the lock accuracy of both devices.

I will keep you informed regarding the results!

Greetings, Hugo
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] crocodile010:
I just tried the tweaks mentioned in first post and it looks like they helped a lot. thank you!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] jcespi2005:
CAB with tweaks from fisrt post

For all of you that don't have Advanced Config installed, here is a CAB with all tweaks from first post. Only changed PollInterval of GPSOneDevice to 250 (decimal) for battery consumption.. lower value, higer poll, higer consumption.

Cheers
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] freco:
Thanks @jcespi2005. Very convinient for the upcoming rom flashes ;-)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] apd:
Thanks - that's a great help.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] fireblade63:
Very nice indeed :)

Thanks man
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] apd:
I should add that I found that Igo8 didn't suffer any lag problems on my TP even before I had made the reg changes - only TT7 did.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] jcespi2005:
Glad to help ;)

Cheers
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] hugo5:
Now this is strange indeed. I don't really know where to put this. I hope that this is not a sign, that there might be a hardware problem behind the GPS behaviour ...

Hugo
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] juwenio:
Hallo guys,

my experience so far:

repack tomtom 7 on storage card

map: dach on storage card

Tf3d is activated

Fixing absolutely no problem, within some seconds. I have tried all tweaks, especially posted from trolly333, but there is still the lag min. 50 meters, but the voice is accurately.

Tried the connection with my bluetooth sirf 3: no lag any more !

Have a nice day

juwenio
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
What do you mean going on and off all the time?

If you mean it reports you a fix, then doesn't give you any data for a period of time, then says 0 sats, gets a fix again, and then gives you no data.. in a loop, that's the behavior i got when i turned the maxbuffersize too low..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Yes, thats exactly what I mean!

My BufferSizes are 512, what do you have? Also under multiplexer is 512
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
I don't recall exactly what the value was to cause that behavior, it's been some time since I tweaked them..

But raise it higher and it should go away :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] maw:
Can you check in your registry please?

I changed MaxBufferSize under Multiplexer first to 1024, no change, then to 2048, still no change.

Must I change the other buffers as well?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
I don't have any values at all for buffering in my registry, only poll interval set to 3e8 (1000)

I'm using the GPS clean build I posted earlier, with CE OS 5.2.21014.1.6.0..