yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Black1982:
Maybe this isn't necessary. I don't know much about this issue, but if its about getting a fix quickly you should try GPSToday as mentioned in this thread:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=467374

It seems to be very good at getting a fix and getting it quickly. I tried it yesterday and i could get a fix in my room in a few seconds.

Normally i used Googlemaps to get a fix quickly, but this app seems to be even better. (I didn't have time to do more elaborate tests)

I was a bit sceptic, but it seems to work very well!

I'm still with my original rom and radio, so I'm not the best person to help you with flashing:o
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
This morning I ran my TP next to my Kaiser again.

One thing I noticed is that the Kaiser seems to use some sort of speed algorithm to "make up" for the position lag. While passing intersections it is a little more accurate than my TP, but when coming to a stop at an intersection the Kaiser overshot the intersection by 20+ feet and my TP stopped just before it like it should have.

This makes me wonder if the Kaiser is trying to guess the correct position somehow based on speed rather than using the true GPS reading, which I'm guessing would show the same position lag as the TP.

My Kaiser has all of the default reg settings for GPS. I might try changing them so they match the TP and see what happens.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mike99:
Hello,

Here is just a thought. I am not a PC pro, but here are my own observations as well as posts from ppcgeeks and XDA site.

TP uses the same GPS chip set as the older models, such as mogul, tilt ....

There was no lag using previous devices.

The TP GPS position is accurate when stationery or moving slowly.

Lag increases with increasing speed with most apps, including live search, google maps, Sprint TeleNav.

Voice commands are usually very accurate and on time.

The big difference between TP and older devices is the screen. Resolution is much higher, and so it has to process many more pixels.

Could the lag be due to the display delay, not the GPS module.

Can that be solved with better drivers or ported drivers from other devices?

Can GPS based programs be adjusted to lower resolution to save processing time?

Any thoughts?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I haven't tested it yet, but I believe someone else has.

I have a BT GPS puck that I used with my old Treo 700wx. I might connect that to my TP and test the GPS. I didn't have any lag with that, but that should tell us if its graphics or the GPS unit.

I thought someone did that and didn't have lag, but I could be wrong.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
Did your Kaiser have any speed lag...when you stopped, did it say zero for speed very quickly? The TP seems to really lag in speed still. Position is pretty good. And like most Sirf gps's it freeze's at a stop, and is slow to show initial movement...
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I didn't really notice, I just saw that it showed I already passed the intersection when I hadn't yet.

I will try it again on my way home and see.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] JJKameR:
I have reported this a couple of pages before.

It's normal...

BTW with my diamond running Navigon 731 b137 I have literally NO LAG at all. Original Radio .20 (latest) and standard registry tweaks.

With iGo and TT7 lag is barely noticeable on certain situation and absent most of the time.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] iRiKi:
hello? htc doesn't have any sirf III model :rolleyes:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NevadaSun:
me too i can also confirm
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] CLShortFuse:
TomTom doesn't use the GPS Intermediate Driver (GPSID) on the Raphael. I believe Google does but I'm not so sure. So, you changing the registry keys makes no difference. The GPSID is a software driver made by Microsoft that parses the NMEA information and accesses the COMM port. If you're putting in the COMM port manually in the application you're testing, you're definitely not using GPSID.

Not all applications use GPSID and I'm sure many directly access the COMM port directly.

Regardless, those changes to the registry values aren't really going to help you get a GPS fix quicker. Just think of it as an NMEA parser reading a COMM port. It's just a driver really and not directly linked to the SIRF III device/QualComm GPSOne. The data that comes out of the COMM port isn't going to be manipulated to come out faster by changing the driver, just the speed as which the port is read.

You can find more reference information here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms850332.aspx

I'm writing my own GPS Testing Tool that uses the GPSID.

You can help / check it out here:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=474582

Edit: I'm doing some research on this and I found this:

That's fine. My application calls GPSOpenDevice and then starts reading data.

What I found interesting was this:

Which is what I'm researching now...

From my research, I'm coming to the conclusion that's it's NOT a good idea to turn off A-GPS and not to use the GPS Almanac (GPS History). It seems like HTC's AGPS procedure is more or less GARBAGE. What it seems like we can do is create our OWN drivers and AGPS tool. Have you guys never realized how precise and quick Google Maps tends to be with finding your location with mobile towers. It's my suspicion that they are NOT using Qualcomm's /HTC's AGPS (incorporated in the GPSID) but their own AGPS function. We can write our own and I'm going to get started on that.

Why use the AGPS / GPS Almanac?

You guys already know the difference between a cold GPS fix and a hot GPS fix. Getting a hot GPS means the GPS Almanac is still fresh/up-to-date and it can find those satellites quickly by calculating their azimuth and elevation and knowing where they are before even using the hardware to get a fix. The same can be done with AGPS and it should work really fast. The problem is probably that Qualcomm wrote a garbage procedure. I'm going to look into how to write your own GPSID driver.

Edit: More research tells me this. It seems like AGPS information is already on GPSID but if your application doesn't request it by using the IOCTL_GPS_READ_ASSISTED call, it won't use it. Maybe it's not so garbage after all, and it's just that applications aren't reading the AGPS info (meaning turning on or off makes no difference what so ever)

I think I figured out how HTC's GPS works. HTC's QuickGPS writes GPS Almanac data to a file . GPSID_HTC.dll tells the GPSID driver to read that file. If we can write our own GPS almanac data and AGPS information, it'll probably work better.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
that is what I was saying "like" the sirf III's you have to use a tool to turn off the static state the gps enters at a stop since it can't compute heading etc. And the qualcom gps seems to do the same thing, you can see the delay when starting to drive from a dead stop.

Da_G will probably come back and help with the GPS issues when he is done messing with the wm6.5 porting project...:)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Just a little correction, gpsdriver.dll exposes gps0: port, unless you are connecting to the POLL port directly, (i am aware of no gps program that does this) you are most definitely using the GPSID..

GPSID reads gps0: POLL data and exposes as COM4: and GPD0:..

Also google maps has no direct effect on AGPS function, turn on debug log while you connect with various apps; only apps that do something different are HTC GPS Tool and CleanGPSData, they send IOCTL to gpsdriver to cold start if you choose.. otherwise all other apps operate with a standard COM_Open..

I feel there is nothing more to be done here without access to the radio ROM, it's my opinion that there's a simple nvram bit for an "averaging algorithm" type thing.. and as mentioned before "static navigation" esque feature a'la SirfStarIII.. again both probably just nvram bits that need to be flipped from 1 to 0..

CLShortFuse, you may want to read my previous posts on the topic, I have documented almost the entire (non?)functionality of the AGPS system, no sense doing it twice :)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] CLShortFuse:
I'll check it out.

What I'm going to do is write read AGPS from the Radio Information Layer (RIL) of the Windows Mobile system, and use database to convert from CellTower to Long/Lat and take that info, write it in the GPS Almanac, tell the GPSID to read the GPS Almanac and then try to get a fix. This will allow it to get a fix quicker. Google, Yahoo's ZoneLag, and OpenCellID.org all have publically available GPS coordinates of celltower IDs. FCC also have a publically available list but I can't find one online.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Good luck! That certainly doesn't work in the current implementation, which is why i think it's broken also. Check command AT@CELLID? (use at_tool or similar, i have one posted in raph software forum under msm72xx tools), its supposed to report your lat/long as returned by AGPS PDE server, but i've never once seen it report actual values (always lat 0 long 0)

I just wish there was a nice packet sniffer like wireshark for WinMo.. I want to see the commo between gpsdriver.dll and the agps pde..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] CLShortFuse:
I can get the celltower and gps information using the example posted here:

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/DeepCast.aspx

But the question is writing to the GPS Almanac and then figuring out what purpose QuickGPS serves with GPSID (probably links to HTC's own GPSID DLL)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
QuickGPS does a periodic injection of epheremis data from \Windows\xtra.bin which (per a post i read some time ago) contains worldwide constellation to (somewhere) in non-volatile storage, i think the MFG partition.. if I recall correctly it does it's communication directly to the gps0: port bypassing gpsid.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] CLShortFuse:
Da_G so, if I have the Lat/Long information via celltower info with Google. Now I need to send that to the GPS device. GPSID documentation says I can but I'm still figuring it out
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
I'm unsure about that, but the way gpsdriver.dll does it is by querying registry for MCCMNC, and CellID, and sending that to agps PDE server, which replies with lat/long that gets fed into gpsid.. i've never seen a valid reply so i dont know the method :o(
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Hey, I was just poking through the HTC Rose ROM, runs a similar chipset, looks like the gps driver is compatible (and not much different)

Of course, you know what i'm doing.. building a ROM with that driver.. to take it for a spin :P

On a side note, the HTC Rose ROM is the first one i've seen with multiple languages in one ROM.. cool!
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] CLShortFuse:
Registry? Do you know where? I don't need it since I'm referencing the Radio Information Layer (RIL) and getting TowerID, LocationAreaCode, MobileCountryCode and MobileNetworkCode anyway but it's good to know.

Am I correct to assume that GPSdriver.dll / GPSID.dll / GPSID_HTC.dll is optional? According to documentation it's just opening a COM port like before Windows Mobile 5.0. What function does it do?

Also the first post says to disable GPS Logging. Is GPS Logging the same as GPS Almanac? What good could come out of disabling GPS Almanac? If it the GPS Almanac in a text file, I'll see if I can inject the Long/Lat data I get from Google with the TowerID into that file. I could be wrong since I honestly haven't even checked what the log contains.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
"Normal" GPS drivers expose themselves as a COMM port to the system, like COM4:, but htc's setup doesn't work that way. gpsdriver.dll exposes a "POLL version 2" port (referenced in gpsid spec) - which is then connected to by either GPSID or GPSID_HTC and exposed as COM4: and GPD0:.

GPS Logging is the GPSID feature that logs all NMEA strings that pass through it, it's a security issue (for obvious reasons since you are carrying around a log of where you've been) - and microsoft specifically recommends disabling it on all production devices for this reason. HTC of course did not :)

The thinking was that writing to the log file could be a source of lag, but it's not the case, but then, not having a log of where you've been (when the gps is on) is probably better than having a log...

AFAIK the only time GPSID is looking for a lat/long is in the radio rom's response to the AT@CELLID command - so you might have to intercept it's AT@CELLID call and give it your own reply..

But hey, maybe these new drivers will 'just work'... (laugh)

Re: the location of the key, i can't remember exactly off the top of my head, but search for "MCCMNC" in the registry, they're all stored with that one..
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] CLShortFuse:
GRRRR! I just figured something out. The GPS Almanac is not a history that it uses. QuickGPS updates the almanac and ephemeris. I think I'll have to devote trying to figure out how to write the AGPS to the GPSID device using IOCTL_GPS_WRITE_ASSISTED

Edit: And I didn't find the key but whatever. I don't need it.

Or does it? I'm confused after looking at this:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/almanacs.htm

GPS needs three things: almanac, ephemeris and time.

But if that were true that QuickGPS updates both the almanac and ephemeris then you just need the "time" data which is what each satellite gives you. But QuickGPS doesn't give me as quick of a fix as when I close and it open it again.

If I could inject the almanac with GPSID and use QuickGPS to update the ephemeris I'll be hot fix all the time. Add writing the AGPS manually and our GPS issues will be fixed.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Neoo330:
Its very strange, does enyone can confirm this lag with external bluetooth GPS ?

I tried yesterday, and lag is stil there :rolleyes:
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Da_G:
Cruised around with the HTC Rose dsm, smd, smd_com, gpsdriver, and gpsid today, no change!

(I don't see the lag on my bluetooth gps)

Don't think this problem is going to get solved without HTC's involvement.. unless I can hax0r my way into the radio rom :P
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nitroblu:
^

if htc had half a mind, they should hire you asap Da_G :D
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Sleuth255:
Well, I'm back from Atlanta with over 150 miles logged using TT7 on my Fuze. Here are my findings:

the 1.40 version of S2U2 will blank the display, had to disable it

Satellite acquire time was the same or better than my tilt. Generally this ment that I could open the door, start TomTom and throw my fuze on the dashboard. Then toss my coat in the back & maybe load luggage up. Then sit down, buckle up and start. When I reached for my Fuze, it was always locked in.

awsome signal strength! I had a POS PT Cruiser rental and stuck my Fuze into the cupholders next to the shifter. That's waaaayyy down near the floor. It was pretty much pegged on 5 bars the whole time. I could never do that with my Tilt. It always needed to be somewhat close to the dash. On a PT Cruiser, the dash isn't usable so I had to run my Tilt on my knee.

No position lag ever cropped up. Voice prompts were spot on with positioning. My only observation was that the map movement was at times a bit jerkier than I remember it on my Tilt

TT7 has a red "exceeding the speed limit" alert showing your speed vs. the posted speed... It was generally on ;) They should allow you to plug in "acceptable speeding ticket prices" into prefs to eliminate....

battery consumption when GPS is running is a bit better than my Tilt

Auto backlight rocks! I used to have to fumble with my Tilt when driving at night but the Fuze automatically dims. This was perfect while driving at dusk.

All in all, I'm most pleased with the TT7 VGA/Fuze combination. It's superior to my Tilt in every way. I had major trepidations going to this device because I depended on my tilt so much in this regard, but my fears are gone now.

I don't know what to say here to you folks with positional lag issues. I simply couldn't reproduce these during long term, real-world navigation exercises at speeds up to 80mph. PM me if you want me to try some tests or check some settings. I'll also continue to lurk this thread and will jump in if I see anything I can assist with. fttb, I count myself lucky to be in with the others reporting 0 position lag but am unsure why exactly this is.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nitroblu:
@Sleuth255

Thanks for the very detailed report :D I think it's time I jump ship and make the switch from Garmin to TT7 LOL.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] X2D:
Garmin has the coolest features out of every nav system I've tried but it's so damn off compared to TT7 and iGO
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] starstreak:
Does the Sony X1 also have this same lag issue? It has the same chipset,right?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
heard contradicting reports about that

(yes same chipset)
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I've pretty much eliminated my positional lag with the reg tweaks we've done, now I'm down to speed lag.

My report the other day was backwards. My TP was the one that overshot the intersection. I tried it again on my way home and my Tilt would stop as soon as my car reached 0 and the Tilt would read 0. My TP would slowly go down but it would take 4-5 seconds for it to actually get to 0.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Flying Kiwi:
:D:D .... Now if only I could get my bicycle with my TyTN II running TT Navigator mounted on the handlebars to go fast enough. In my case the speeding related infringement would probably be for going to slow :(
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] Flying Kiwi:
That seems on par with my experience of the call centre/email response part of HTC Tech 'Support' - very annoying but keep getting back to them every time the buck is passed in their direction and make sure you have a full record of who said what! I dont know if the Sprint version will yet run with other Navigation software but if it will, ask HTC what software it will work with and that they will accept responsibility for correct functioning. In the end if HTC doesn't want to know and aren't technically the 'provider' of the device, you'll have a hard time getting anywhere with them without your providers backing/action.:(
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mike99:
Just like said, if more people complained, the chances of getting their attention would go up. I just e-mailed this whole deal to Sprint. Will keep forum posted.

The HTC email for CS is on theiw web site, HTC.COM

Thanks.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] starstreak:
Sorry, not sure if I understood you. So some with X1 do have the issue? Or you mean, you have heard of people with this issue but can't confirm it?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
I mean both of what you said.

Seems some with X1 have it and some not.

And yes I cannot confirm it.

So to my eyes looks like same case with TP.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] starstreak:
Ah ok. I was hoping to sell my TP and get the X1a if it didn't have that issue. I was goning buy the X1a untill bestbuy messed up my order and I ended up getting the TouchPro instead.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] NLS:
I dunno man - your choice - what I know (after I used a couple X1i) is that if was in the market again, I'd buy TP again
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mike99:
Just a quick question.

I noted on my TP using any GPS program (live search, google maps, Sprint TeleNav), the motion of the car on the map is very jerky and discontinuous. I think this is the main source of the lag. Even on my wife's iphone with google maps, the motion is smooth and continuous, just like on my in car TomTom.

Any one can comment on their experience?

Thanks.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] borisku:
@mike: use a comportsplitter & problems are gone...:D

greetz

Boris
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mike99:
@mike: use a comportsplitter & problems are gone...

greetz

Boris

Sorry to sound stupid, but what is it, and how does it help??

Thanks
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] petard:
I just compared my FUZE with stock ROM to a US DIAM110 with Dutty's latest ROM (as of 1 week ago) and the Diamond has significantly less position and even speed lag.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] borisku:
@mike:

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=comportsplitter

greetz

boris
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] petard:
comsplitter won't help because the comsplitter reads from the com port and splits that. once the data is to the com port, it is already delayed so there is no way it can help.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] bretto_b:
New Prob

After finally sort of solvin the lag issue ad having satisfactory perforance, yesterday I go for a rive and TomTom shows me my car driving off the road in the rough direction I am heading at least. Any suggestions on hat has happened??
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] noellenchris:
happens to me too once in awhile. I have to soft reset, then it works correctly for me... don't know why it happens.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuttsp:
So there is a fix for the lag? Did I miss something?
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] nuttsp:
I tried my external GPS GPSlim236 with TT6 and I have no lag or speed problems.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] v1nce:
I was looking at the Touch HD forum to compare the Touch Pro and the Touch HD, and come across a similar GPS issues thread to this one, which suggests the issues you guys are experiencing are shared across both phones.

A supposed solution was posted today by user acousticnorbert in this post, and has to do with registry changes to resize (shink?) the buffer between the GPS, Com emulator and Software.

I thought you guys might want to try this and see if its a viable fix to the issues you're experiencing. I apologise if a similar non-functional fix has been posted in this thread before, but I haven't had time to read all 80 pages.

Edit: Found this on another forum which seems to help several people out: http://blog.mohdimran.com/2008/11/htc-touch-pro-gps-problem-tweaking.html
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
We've been trying all sorts of different registry settings.

We've tried the buffers at 512 as well.

The only thing I noticed was the RetryWaitOnError which he set to 1 and I believe we've always had it on 3.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mike99:
So I ve tried just about everything to fix GPS lag.The last thing I want to try is the port splitter. So I downloaded Com port splitter (freeware, not GPSGate) as a zip file. I unzipped it. When I try to open it, it tells me there is no program associated with it, and that I have to run a program and open the file within it.

I use TeleNav navigation from Sprint (believe the same as for ATT).

Can anyone help me to figure out how to set it up and assign ports correctly.

Thanks
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] mindfrost82:
I think I'm to the point where I agree with Da_G thinking that the problem lies deeper inside the radio.

I tried the reg settings posted above (in the link) and I went all the way back to the default settings and with my hardware I've noticed that all the reg settings have VERY LITTLE effect.

I think the biggest issue is speed lag. No matter what reg settings I use it's always about 4 seconds.

I believe Sleuth even had speed lag. I would have to go back and watch his video again, but I think he has it as well.