yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] rogro82:
Only for vga... it will try to create a 640x480 resolution. Wouldnt try it if i were you....

To make sure no one else wonders if it has a possitive effect the answer is no... i already tried it ;):D
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Radem205, thanks for the info!

UPDATE:

"in effect, you can use any DPI – at least for a quick test. The higher the DPI number, the lower the effective resolution. 192 stands for 240*320 (QVGA), while 96 stands for 480*640."

Holy crap batman! :eek:

Does than mean that all the Polaris's were set to VGA mode??? I remember in the kaiser forum about the hoo ha regarding "VGA" being present in the display setting in registry... could it be that htc's "hacks" made there solution work by utilising these settings??
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] rogro82:
It just enlarges everything and makes your device useless ;)
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
When you have a QVGA screen the value need set to 192 (stands for a resolution of 240x320).

Edit: Maybe I'm not right :p
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Ok, so why the value of 192 instead of 96? I mean, 96 pixels in the X-axis and 96 in the Y-axis. It doesn't really make sense to me.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] rogro82:
I tried it already but like i said everything enlarges and becomes useless.. unless we want hardware acceleration for the visualy impaired :D:cool:
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
http://xdaforums.com/archive/index.php/t-261245.html
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Well, there IS a regkey somewhere in display as i recall saying the display is VGA in stead of qVga. I thought it was weird and i set it to qvga, but it didnt do anything.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
did anyone try the lights program if they were able to after doing the reg edit? I think we're barking up the wrong tree but i must admit it does seems confusing.. almost like we have vga screens but no-one wants us to know about it :confused:
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] rogro82:
Yep tried it... resolution was ok but also scrolling..

Wasnt easy to press the right buttons :D
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Ok, tried it. As stated, it makes the devices VGA, which renders it useless. I did manage to start lights.exe, but it had the same scrolling. Fun thing to mention, it was twice as fast. ;)
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Ok... so now I'm REALLY confused!

192 is qvga

96 is VGA default is 96

Change it to 192 for qvga and it becomes VGA?? :confused:

Care to explain that one Neos?? :p
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] rogro82:
Yep also noticed that... but maybe that is because half of everything wasnt loaded so it has more memory??
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
Could anyone post a few registry keys which are maybe responsible for this issue? So I can search for a solution on the web...
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
I have no idea why the device would turn VGA. And i'm sure we don't need to research these values further, as they just enlarge the screen and the scrolling bug stays.

It has to be something with refresh rates or buffering of some sort.

edit:

About the regkeys, we would also like to know. Otherwise we'd probably fixed it already ;)
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
Hello all

Yes you are right our polar is set to vga in registry:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\GDI\Drivers]

"MainDisplay"="ddi.dll"

"BacklightDefault"=dword:00000002

"BacklightMax"=dword:0000000f

"BacklightMin"=dword:00000000

"BacklightSupport"=dword:00000001

"ContrastSupport"=dword:00000000

"PalletteSupport"=dword:00000000

"Bpp"=dword:00000010

"DisplayType"="VGA"

As I can remember the previous rom has is set to qvga.

In my latest rom I forgot to turn security warning off:o
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
and dont I know it.. right I'm off for lunch but can I catch you in bout 30mins NikMel?

I'll send all my fixes, dll's as I have them which fix the white screen issue and also give some interesting results with the apps. I'm now positive that the answer will have to be cooked in, not least for the fact tat your recent release is faster and smoother without even the fixes.

be back in a a bit.. :)
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
This is funny:

I just figured i'd install the kaiserdriver after a hard reset on udK's R0.

Now when i try to run lights.exe it gives an exception, with faulting module Coredll.dll at 0x03fa0060. Funny, since that's basically the .dll that runs the complete device.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
If you use the latest cab file from htcclass website then you get that exception.

There is some compatibility issue with that cab file:confused:
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
And after updating the ddi.dll from 3.13 to 3.28, it works with 3D hardware and scrolling...

noticable fact: when you start and close lights.exe your screen is screwed up. Press the powerbutton to turn the screen off, and voila. It's normal again. If you press the powerbutton during the animation, the display won't turn off for a sec. Then lights.exe hangs and the screen won't turn off anymore.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] ouioui01:
why this tools is running without making the screen scrolling? it's software render ?? :confused: (my LocalHook is d3dm_ati.dll :confused: , with last HTC-CA drivers)

why tools from HTC-CA make the screen scrolling :confused:

I'm lost...can you explain NikMel ? this is not due to drivers, but demos tools!

cheers!
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
I think that the tools from htcclass website are bit bugy
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] ouioui01:
problems with MSM_CLK.dll....
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
What are you saying? That 3D already works on our devices, but the testing tools are buggy? I don't think that's an acceptable answer to our problem.

Manila isn't working either. Show me some other tools that DOESN'T scroll while the tools from HTC CA do. beside, the Polaris and Kaiser don't differ in chipset hardware.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
check the tools here: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1733012&postcount=274

There is one d3d tool and one gl tool
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
So does than mean we need a compatible msm_clk.dll file? or will a registry tweak suffice?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
This is a rom where blank scren after standby mode is solved and all the tool are working after HR with scrolling:o

http://rapidshare.com/files/147118561/RUU_Signed_R2.rar
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] ouioui01:
if we use the msm_clk.dll from NikMel's zip file, we have not this problem...as i'm using udK syrius rom, il will try later some tests...

Guys, you've made a great job there :D:D!!!!

I don't understand why you're alone....

@ NikMel, thanks!
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
What the. The benchGLES worked without any scrolling, but of course it uses libgles_cm.dll instead of the ati_d3dm.dll.

more intersting is the tut_4_lights.exe which seems to use the ati_d3dm.dll WITHOUT scrolling!

The creator of the tut_4 lights must've used some other code to run D3D.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
Both files are using the dll's from htcclass website
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Which dlls did you use? the latest ones or the previous ones that you gave us?

and did you update the net compact? this is crucial as part of the error is net compatibility related. since we're moving forward we might as well use 3.5
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NikMel:
the framework is the latest 3.5

dll's come from the latest htcclass website cab file.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Excellent, as I'm off out now (shopping.. etc.snore..)

but I'll have plenty of chances to play while I'm out.. I've got a working remotehook .. that could be interesting..
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Heres a working hex editor for the ppc.. does the ob nicely if you need to take a look inside dll files.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] ouioui01:
wonderfull!!!!!
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Made another video. Enjoy the crappyness. lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2iIDO_8-kU

Seeying the first app work completely and the second still with flickering and scrolling, i'm a bit confused. What is the difference between programs? They're both cilinders spinning...
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
time to get a better camera Neos.. LOL :D

tip: if you click on the top right and close the running app then click power button.. it rights your screen! saved me a few soft resets that has! :p
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
Weird. Is it normal that Manilla 2D runs quite bad at your phone?

Is it possible that the vertical flickering is caused by disabling Vsync (or indead a wrong refreshrate)?

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1188663,00.asp

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
I noticed that too.. mine works A LOT faster.. :confused:
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
We need someone with .net dev skills... I'm no programmer but i think it has be something with double buffering or something like that. Again, it's weird Kaiser doesn't have this issue, although i saw a youtube video which had similar flickering but no scrolling on the Kaiser.

edit: manila works fine, i accidentally used my full finger to scroll and pushed the left softwarebutton at the same time. It's a typical user-flaw :D
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
right I'm off. .. but NikMel can you extract the coredll.dll.0409.mui file and can someone take a look inside it and post its contents please?

see ya later - thanks again everyone.. its heartening to see everyone joining in! :)

Makes doing this all the more worthwhile.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Let's recap:

I've watched ALOT of Kaiser videos now. One guy started lights without the driver and it used the software render. Then he just ran the HTC CA cab and bam! It worked out of the box. So, it must be something in our roms, and it might even be the ddi.dll. But hopefully it's just a registry key somewhere. If not, we might never find the solution. (because i don't know jack about programming .dll's)
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
I don't know if you looked already to the page below:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/b367a457(vs.80).aspx

It has to do with the .NET Framework where you can enable double buffering. Anywhere you find that a disabled double buffering caused this problems. So I think we need to search to a solution to get Double Buffering enabled in .NET framework.

Edit: I see that there is a compact version of .NET framework 3.5 installed in Syrius R0. Maybe double buffering is disabled in this version.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Anyone with Visual studio who can confirm this?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
See: http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1693177&SiteID=1

Someone says that double buffering is not integrated in NET Compact Framework.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Update:

I thought of something else here. What if i used 2 ddi.dll's? So i copied my old ddi.dll (3.13) and renamed it do ddi2.dll and copied it back into the windows directory. Then i opened my registry and changed HKLM\Drivers\Display\primary\DisplayDll=ddi2.dll

Soft reset and started Lights.exe

Hardware all true, video memory used but it didn't show. Until i pressed the start menu button and it came up and it only works if i press Start menu.

And best yet: No scrolling!

Don't actually know if it's using the 3D hardware... but Lights.exe says so.

I think i'm getting somewhere here.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
Oh that is nice! I'm happy there is no scrolling, but now we (especially you I think :)) have another problem to solve :(
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] pananza:
.NET Compact Framework does not enable or disable double buffering, nor does it come in two versions with it disabled or not.

Microsoft has some D3D support in .NET CF and since not many programs on the pocket pc uses D3D ofte the Microsoft Sample Apps are compiled and used as a demo (light etc are .NET CF apps).

I stongly don't thing that .NET CF has anything to do with your scrolling problem, but to be sure you need some D3D demo app that is not written in .NET.

I've silently followed your quest for several days now, and I'm sorry to say that I don't think you can solve the problem by mixing DLL's and changing registry. A developer with real knowlegde of the problem (authors of Kaiser driver comes to mind), must probably create some Polaris support in their drivers as well.

They have previously stated that it's the Polaris specific DDI.DLL that we were missing. If and when that file is available we can ask them if they could be so kind as to support the polaris as well.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
True. I've seen the difference. ive got 2 versions of Lights.exe. First one is from the Kaiser driver (made in .NetCF) and another (probably not made in .NetCF).

The kaiser one scrolls, the other one doesn't. I guess it's a programming thing.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Update on my 2 ddi's:

this time i used 3.28 for both keys, i just renamed it to ddi2.dll and copied it next to ddi.dll. (same file, just renamed)

Edited the regkey and i got the same results as with the 3.13 ddi.dll! Now, isn't that weird?

Then i set the registry value back to ddi.dll and it works like before: Scrolling...
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] CyberCSK:
DId you notice that the people from HTC Class Action also had a flickering problem ?

Watchthe video from June 22, 2008!

The question is now what they changed to solve this.

Are you guys working with the latest release from Septemper 19, 2008 ?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Yes. And I saw the video. Noticed that the 3d object stays in place? Our's doesn't. It's a similar problem, but not EXACTLY the same.

I sent a few pm's to the guys who worked on the Kaiser drivers, but I haven't had any replies yet.

I guess they've moved on to other stuff.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Hi Pananza, nice to have you on here and thanks for the advice :)

I kind of think you're right in that we need developers to add specific support for polaris, certainly there are issues which will remain regardless of how far we get until thats done.

But I still think the scrolling is fixable without that.

Can you give me a link to where it was mentioned about needing the specific ddi please? I could do with having a read of it..
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Again my question is:

ARE THERE ANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE POLARIS AND THE KAISER??

Apart from the keyboard and that Polaris software was designed with the cube in mind?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] CyberCSK:
I don't think so, since the last update of HTC CA was on Friday. We still have weekend. Maybe they answer beginning of next week.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Dont you mean a month last friday? its august 19th not september 19th
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
Just a question in between:

Ensures the product for better performance in Windows and / or in Manila already, or ensure these drivers only for better game performance?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
The problem on the video was to do with the recording not the actual app as far as I can gather from the site.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bikerg:
I too would like to know this.

Surely if they are practically identical, would the DDI files not be too?

What software would be best to decompile the dll files?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] SuperJMN:
Hello :)

I got news from omikr0m and he told me that he actually didn't develop the driver and that he is not able to give us help. However, he recommended me to contact Chainfire (also in XDA-Developers).

I contacted him already, but he hasn't answered yet. I'm looking forward to hearing his words on this.

I wonder if he's visiting this site nowadays and if he is active in order to read PMs. If he's not, please, somebody to give me his e-mail address? :)

Radem, they're trying to improve both. This means that 100% of the Polaris users could get benefit. With this been said, I encourage everybody to contribute, calling "gurus" and offering help. Everything is welcome.

Of course, if somebody knows Chainfire or another authority on the subject, please, take them here! they will be rewarded, for sure.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] pananza:
This page talks about porting the Kaiser driver to other MSM7x00 devices:

The DDI.DLL and DISPTOOLS.DLL are two files we have been waiting for on the official VM 6.1 update. Some releases are out, but since they are still not published on htc.com we cannot be sure they are the finished product.

Here is a few tools you might want to check:

1. Dependency walker (http://www.dependencywalker.com/)

This is a windows program that will load a DLL (need to copy them from the Polaris to windows) and display what other DLL's it depends on (i.e. uses). Useful to check differences on various files.

It also lists exported functions (can check the the above stated functions are exported)

2. Reflector (http://www.red-gate.com/products/reflector/)

This is something similar, but for DLL's and EXE's build with .NET. You can even disassemble code.

Happy hunting...
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] deechte:
I'm using a stock NLD WM6.0 ROM. From the above keys only "MainDisplay"="ddi.dll" is present. The others aren't.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
When I look into the Kaiser driver topic I found a program that can be run on the phone and compare the results with for example the kaiser.

Maybe it's useless, but maybe it helps:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2520632&postcount=2308
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] pananza:
D3D benchmark

I've included a slightly modified Billboard demo. Billboard is one of the D3D demo applications the Microsoft has released for the .NET Compact Framework. This version displays the frames per second (fps) in the to left corner. So now your don't have to "feel" it a certain config is faster than another.

Also, to check the .NET 3.5 vs 2.0 double buffering theory you can check the program on both frameworks. See this post on how to change between .NET CF 2.0 and 3.5.

On my Polaris running with the Omnia software drivers I get about 6,25 fps.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] whitealien:
Maybe this will motivate you more guys :D

$5,000 reward for working HTC Kaiser video driver

If only I could understand something from from 3D drivers :/
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Thanks again for the advice pananza :)

Billboard proggie doesnt show the fps - just a red blob where it should be like the 3d text :(
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
After a while Bollboard shows that it plays with 7,14 fps. So I think there is something wrong with your drivers :p
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] pananza:
Ok, new updated Bill Board, this time I log to \fps_dump.txt instead of displaying the FPS count on screen.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Radem2005, which rom are you using?

and how long fif you leave it before you saw the numbers?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] NeoS:
Anyone read my post about using 2 ddi.dll's?

I find it remarkable that the 3D function is stable, but it's very slow. Can anyone try this with different versions of ddi.dll?

Secondly, does anyone have a msm_time.dll newer than 3.13?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] Tzeunis:
Well guys,

i use Syrius R0 and mine device shows 0,0625 fps! F*cking slow! I did no driver changing; just the UDK rom.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] gregy74:
Sorry guys, I dont know a lot about that kind of things.

I have just one question. Before Polaris I had HX4700.

HX4700 have ATI imageon, and I can see here that Polaris, Kaiser also have ATI imageon. Can we maybe do something with drivers from HX4700?

I know that HX4700 work just great, about 240 % benchmark in Coreplayer.

Sorry for my stupid question.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
I use udK R8 ROM with Manilla 2D installed.

It's far from a stupid question. Could you post the files? Maybe it doesn't work, but I think you can give it a try.

See the post below where you can compare the driverinfo of the Kaiser with the Cruise (with D3Dmcab). With that program you can see which item is disabled and enabled for as far as I know.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2520632&postcount=2308

With the omnia drivers installed, I get the results that you can find in the file below. When you compare it with HTCAJuly29caps.txt there is a big difference between those. Maybe you can compare it also with the HTCA file.

Ps: Here you can find what each item in the txt file means: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms939138.aspx
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Compare your results to Tzeunis who has less than 0.f frames per second on R0 with the software renderer and then compare those results with pananza's 7-25 fps with the omnio driver which we know works well.

The point is that we have HARDWARE ACCELERATION - something that can be improved upon when the driver or support for the polaris in the driver is included.

Remember people, from my first post, the question was CAN Polaris hardware accelerate - we werent even sure of that. Now thanks to the hard work of a few, we now can confirm not only that it can - but we've got the driver working on our Polaris to prove it.

Frame rate improvements are a thing for the future, we have many obstacles to overcome yet - still the scrolling issue - that if resolved may make a drastic leap forward in performance and some as Pananza pointed out will need developers to intervene.

Chin up.... at least you can show everyone that we're not a bunch of amateurs wasting our time - we're a bunch of amateurs who can prove it can be done! :)

"If you build it - they will come" - Field of Dreams
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
@bally3: There is a good improvement for sure. Thank you guys for all the good work.

Would you look to my post (before your post) and let me know if this can help?
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] gregy74:
Sorry, I don't have HX4700 anymore. I don't know how to extract this files from ROM, because I don't have this device anymore. Here is link for this ROMs:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=371079

Interesting is that PhamQuang is also autor of this ROMs for HX4700.
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] bally3:
Interestiing...

Output from the caps you posted:

DevCaps=10000004

--no D3DMDEVCAPS_CANRENDERDURINGPRESENT (00000800)

--no D3DMDEVCAPS_HWTRANSFORMANDLIGHT (00010000)

--no D3DMDEVCAPS_HWRASTERIZATION (00080000)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_NATIVEFLOAT (10000000)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_TEXTURE (00000004)

--no D3DMDEVCAPS_SPECULAR (00000008)

AND HERES PART OF MINE:

DevCaps=1009080c

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_CANRENDERDURINGPRESENT (00000800)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_HWTRANSFORMANDLIGHT (00010000)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_HWRASTERIZATION (00080000)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_NATIVEFLOAT (10000000)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_TEXTURE (00000004)

yes D3DMDEVCAPS_SPECULAR (00000008)
[Touch Cruise ROM Development] radem205:
But you have to save the file and then open the txt file which was created. There you can find more information. And when you compare your results with the HTCA29july.txt (see the attachment at my previous post) you can see what the difference are between the drivers of the HTCA (htcclassification drivers) and yours.