yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] FInixNOver:
I'm not part of the Diamond community... yet... but I'd like to give opinion on the subject.

I've been cooking for a while for trinity users, and as many chefs here, I've spent countless hours analyzing official ROMs, and even other chefs ROMs, reading, searching, testing, to better understand the whole cooking process, to improve myself.

Along the way I've had many questions, problems, and so on, and so on... Mainly I was fortunate enough to have had a great teacher and friend, and also the basis to build my work on.

This happened in a time when it all was a passion, when it was about making the ROMs better(not just customize them but also to improve them in performance and/or stability), but now?... Well, now it's more about having the best ROM, with more downloads... and ultimately more donations...

I have nothing against chefs, or developers, or whatever, being rewarded for their work, hell, I have a paypal link too(even though I don't really advertise it, it just sits there on my signature)!!

I guess the trigger for all this, was some chefs, making other chefs work their own without asking in the first place. If this really was sharing community, why not ask, instead of "stealing"? In the end it becomes a sort of a cooker's war, to see which one has the best security methods implemented on their ROM, and which one can get through that same security, so they can take instead of asking once again...

As l3v5y said, I also remove the RGUs and patch the DSM into one, for performance purposes, as colateral I get some protection against ROM package rebuilding, but I can only go so far. I have no programing skills whatsoever, so I couldn't protect my ROMs further, even if I wanted!!

I tottaly agree that with the growth in the number of members, comes a growth in new chefs, or chef wannabies, and if all is given away that easily, the forums will end up flooded with new ROMs. But on the other hand, I'm in favor of sharing. I'm just sad this is getting to a point where it get harder and harder to get some things that used to be available to everyone....

I could go on, but this is getting rather long... Sorry everyone!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] rvbcrs:
I think you are right on the spot there! I'm not a chef, I like cooking ROMS, but never have near enough time to fully make my own, I was helped by many great people here when I did wanted to try to make a ROM. But indeed things are changing I understand that chefs keep things, that they invested hours of work in, for themselfs, but the main problem is the donation buttons. These buttons are popping out like mushrooms, there everywhere nowdays and although I fully understand that a chef want's to get something back for the many hours he invested, this is also a reason for many to lock their roms because more chefs means more ROM's.

I have very mixed feelings on this subject I know what Bram means but I can also understand the reasons of the chefs who lock there roms. I think the biggest problems nowdays is the fact that there is money (in form of donations) involved. It is almost becoming a business with the same protective setting.

Just my 2 cents..

RvBCrS
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] panosha:
All right, you convinced me, I don't want anymore open sources.

Show me the way to lock my ROMs.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] adwinp:
Cheers Bram, for shouting out loud what ppl daren't even whisper.

As mentioned previously, the whole definition of a community is about sharing.

We all have been noobs at some point or the other.

How did we move on? A LOT of reading, analyzing other experienced chefs' work, testing, PMing chefs...

A long time ago, I was in the same "protect my stuff" spirit, when I started toying with console game modding and bootlegging. At first it really pissed me off to see my work getting ripped (for profit, most of the time), which is when I started protecting my CDs.

Then I stopped. It wasn't in the spirit of the community.

The same thing applies to cooking.

I, for one, don't take all the credit for putting together pieces shared by others.

Which is why I didn't and will never share my paypal in my sig.

Sure, it's nice if ppl praise you and acknowledge you for your hard work.

Regarding the "stealing" business:

This is EXACLTY what chefs, asking for donations are doing.

There isn't ONE chef, who has coded ALL the packages and tweaks used for his ROM.

He uses at some point or the other tools made by others, as well as knowledge gained through others, and thus, is it fair to ask money for it?

It's pure hipocrysy.

IF you are a great chef, ppl will always praise your work, and will know who you are.

You will always be great, because you KNOW and UNDERSTAND what you're doing.

A noob, who just rips off ppl work won't get anywhere, because ppl will recognize your work (for example, a certain "S***", who based his work on Panosha's). Till he begins to really learn and cook by himself, he will remain a noob.

But what if he really starts learning, thanks to YOUR work, won't you have helped the community gain another potentially great chef?

(

see THIS post http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=418816

and this one

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=398173

)

IF you're using other ppl's tools for cooking your ROM, protecting it and asking money for it (be it donations or any other form), you're just a plain jackass (I know a few of those).

This MIGHT be acceptable if you at least help ppl asking questions.

I DO agree. Spoonfeeding is baaad (I NEVER help ppl who haven't at least tried looking for the answer themselves before asking ME for advice).

But it's a pleasure giving the same advice to someone who researched his problem, but just couldn't get it right.

A.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] christonge:
Some nice points there mate ;)
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] Ameet:
Actually I dont know the way to completely make a ROM lockable (apart from what I have read to combine all the dsm files) But one thing is that my ROMs (not for Diamonds but this thread was found interesting :D) are based on Ultra Clean concept and that means I keep the ROM as clean with almost only the updated OS, so combining the dsms is needed for my public UCE ROMs :D and that makes it lockable automatically

Personally I'd keep my ROMs open source coz I have gathered information in bits and pieces from the same members who use my ROMs and many others too. So its no fun hiding the final product from them :)

By its just my 2 cents :)
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] NielDK:
I dont think its a grey area at all.

By cooking, copyrighted material is being shared (free/not free is not important) both from Microsoft, and HTC, but also other, whoms cabs have been cooked into HTC roms.

Definitely not a grey area.

That being said. I personally dont mind. Cooking is a super way in improving our devices and correcting some errors/bugs.

Kinda double-moral (Double-moral better than moral ;)) that cookers want to protect "their" work. When all they really do is copy **** (OOOHHH this should give some responses hehe
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tnyynt:
I'm not talking about CABs and Packages. It all comes down to the illegal part of jerking with a licensed Operating System.

And to the point, Microsoft and HTC do not share anything, their lack of protection resides in the simple reason that dumping, packaging, porting, rebuilding, cooking generally is illegal.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] bram_smulders:
That i feel the same way, there was one time when i opened donations(for me to buy a new touch, the other one was broken) when i'had collected enough money, i deleted the donation button. Couse i feel i can't collect money for things in an open forum, i cook roms just for u guys out there, and i'm doing it freely.

This forum just seems to go to a business model slightly, i noticed that when i opened donations for my new touch. After that people were demanding for my rom to come out soon becouse they layed money in it... bit strange innit? demanding stuff while you freely donated, and when id did explicitly say that its their choice to donate.

Also when people open donations and close their roms, i feel that is wrong and not contributing to this FREE forum.

Sometimes it seems that people are trying to get as much profit they can get from their roms. thats not a FREE community in my opinion.

This is why it's so hypocrite becouse those chefs are using software(tools rom, os, apps) from the microsoft,htc and tooldevelopers aswell.

Collecting money for a rom wich is particulary based on an os from microsoft, apps from htc, and some other apps from other developers. Register tweaks are modified versions of the ORIGINAL register(you know the one the other developers made).

I think its odd...

We were not talking about it was illegal and stuff, but were trying to make clear that the chefs are quite hypocrite by stating that a cooked rom is their Owning(and sometimes ask money for it). This becouse the cooks use tools from others(sometimes they not even mention the names) OS from microsoft, roms from htc and apps from other devs.

So theyre stealing all the way also.

just my 2 cents

gr. bram

ps. im glad i opened the discussion here
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tnyynt:
We were talking abut i/llegal issues when you asked why Microsoft and/or HTC would not protect their ROMs. Just answered that one!

Yes, Chefs use OS from Microsoft and ROMs and Apps from HTC. Let me get this clear: this is not the issue! Everybody who wants to cook can gain access to these. It's the optimizations, skinning and other stuff that Chefs indirectly protect by merging rgus and dsms in order to gain even more space. Otherwise, they're all just baseroms taken from HTC by dumping the updates or direct device dumping.

Hope I've made it clear this time!

P.S.: This good guys vs bad guys thing will not have any resolution at all. Chefs who already protected their work will continue to do so anyway. A good example is PDAViet ROMs, which are not only dsm and rgu optimized, thus protected, but they even have a dump protection!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] bram_smulders:
It think i said it this way:

I did not state the illegal part of this issue.

I stated that if someone protects his rom against thieves, then where does that guy gets the morale of stealing from htc an microsoft.

I think thats a bit hyporcite, dont want others to steal but steal things yourself...

gr. bram
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tnyynt:
Well, tuning up your own ROM from your device for which you have paid is really not stealing. Nobody has the obligation to share but if they do, accept it as it is.

We can go on like this forever! I gave you all of my 2 cents on this, the rest is really up to how negative people's perception is.

That being said, this ends from my part.

Anyway, we have a good reference thread that managed to attract some Big Guns.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] bram_smulders:
Haha, YES i've managed to get attention whoehiejoe!! :p

No just kidding, it bothers me straight into my xda heart.

gr. bram
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] adwinp:
I think it'd be pointless to prolongue this matter any further.

Sure tnyytn, you may be right.

Then again, if you DO "share", what's the point of "being part of the community", if you do it half-assedly?

A.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tnyynt:
Don't let this get personal only because I was the one replying most and presenting the other side of the story. It wouldn't be fair.

Otherwise, like I said, end of discussion from my part!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] l3v5y:
I see lots of your complaints stem from donations. I may have a donate link in my signature, but in total for the 4,000 posts I've made, and the countless hours I've spent cooking, tweaking, and helping others. I've recieved two donations. Both of which were for help other than cooking.

Cooking is not a "get rich quick" scheme. The only reason I group DSM files, and get rid of RGUs is because of performance. If you want, I'll make a crappy ROM that doesn't have tweaks like that, and you'll notice less memory, and worse performance, and then you'll complain.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] lolek74:
I agree with all the points. Protecting roms, donations etc....

What really upsets me is that not many people want to sgare resources. Why not share info about cooking, tips, tools links to download stuff. I have started tutorial to cook a simple rom for diamond. I have invited almast all chews to the thread to help me with thw task. And it wazs there I met a brick wal. Nobody (but two) wanted to help or contributed. This is wrong. Comunity is about share knowledge, help and educate others.

I'm a begginer too. I was hoped that with a help I will be able to help others but not so much luck. Anyway bed time for me.

If you want to contribute please feel free to help. Full credit will be given to you.

Link
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] panosha:
@ lolek74

Do not become unfair. All that I know for cooking I learned here, with reading, reading & testing & reading again. The truth is that I did not make a lot of questions and took still less answers than those who they knew. But each one does not have time to allocate and perhaps exist also other problems.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] christonge:
I agree a little with Panosha on this it´s often a question of time as well... I try to help as much as I can but sometimes work gets in the way :p and I can´t perhaps offer as much support as I´d like but that´s life...

I have also learnt everything here reading and trying... the hard way I suppose..... BUT do you know what is really the most enjoyable part for me? It´s when one of the "big guns" helps you out with something you just can´t work out. My point, well... the enjoyment is often in that "free" sharing

I also think as time goes by there seems to be less resources or certainly things are held back. It´s happened already here on Diamond... perhaps someone has a new original ROM and doesn´t post it..... or not for a good while. I can understand people want to protect there resources but for such raw materials it would be great if they could be shared as soon as they appear.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] adwinp:
Don't tell me you wouldn't want the spotlight on you for 2 days for being the 1st releasing a ROM based on Windows Aku 3.0 build 30000.

rotflmao.

And THAT'S exactly what's sometimes happening.

My advice? Be as close as possible, to the REAL source.

^.^

A.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] adwinp:
Didn't really want to bump the thread, but came across this one

http://www.xdasite.com/showpost.php?p=12242&postcount=2

http://www.xdasite.com/showpost.php?p=12242&postcount=3

and just couldn't resist posting it (posts 2 and 3).

^.^

And THIS might be of interest for ppl wanting to dump "locked" roms with tampered signatures

OR lock their own

http://xdaflameusers.com/viewtopic.php?id=597
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] etenx500:
up....................
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] bram_smulders:
If we don't argue anymore the thread dont need to go up....
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tha_rami:
Brams' worries confirm one thing and one thing only: with increased freedom comes increased restriction.

It's what we see happening on the internet all around the world. Everything is being closed but Opensource.

Things change, and usually, when things change due to 'freedom', for the worse.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] mondilv:
Absolutely agree to theme founder.

My area - bsd/linux/freedom, so for me situation looks even stupid.

Talk about "lite" roms.

Basically, it need to use as "start point" for profiled images, but speed of apps is not max outside the rom.

So, began to cook for myself. No bad too:D, interesting, but not productive.

Without enough experience - too long way.

Lite ROMS, at least, must be opened!

Some people here talk about spending lot of time for cooking... and what?

Is it the reason to hide information? You can ask donation for work, but user need be satisfied. Don't see the reason to pay for "black box".

Now situation looks like sport - "who is cooler" & whose **** is bigger:D

I did think COMMUNITY is here.

And for HTC's developers - new ideas for make the next rom better.

And: to snatch idea from the closed rom is not impossible, just the way is longer.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tnyynt:
There's always the option to start learning how to cook and make things your way!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] mondilv:
Hm, are you read attentively?
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] l3v5y:
With Lite or Clean ROMs, the performance difference between grouping DSMs and not grouping DSMs is far greater, and, as performance is normally what is wanted in these ROMs, it makes it even better to group DSMs!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tnyynt:
Yes, and I wasn't addressing you, but I was generally speaking that it is always an option to start learning how to cook.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] mondilv:
Great, thanks for info!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] mondilv:
Looks funny at Dutty's downloads: "Licence: GNU/GPL".

Did he read GPL licenses, at least?

One of important points: source code of product MUST be free.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] duttythroy:
Like what others said, you can go and cook for yourself, or just download the official rom and be happy. no one force anyone to download any cooks rom or even the factory rom itself.

This thread is not going anywhere, we all said what we want to said and that is it.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] tha_rami:
I must heavily object there. The thread might not be going anywhere, but the poster there actually notified you that what you're doing is against the law and illegal.

If you are publishing under GNU/GPL you should either revoke that, or release your source-code. I would recommend the first, seeing your stance in this discussion and the fact that your inclusion of Windows Mobile Professional in this ROM kind of makes it impossible to release under a copyleft license.

The use of GNU/GPL comes at a cost, and as a huge fan and supporter of the open-source community I must object against unlawful or illegal use of the license.

I would recommend you to remove that GNU/GPL thing.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] adwinp:
One of the main points of GPLv2 is that IF you use any GPL'd software in your own, you must release the source code of the whole project.

That said, even if you wanted, you can't really really license DT ROMs as GPL since most of the base software is copyrighted as well as closed source.

Releasing Win Mobile source code. lol.

^.^

As mentioned before, your only option is to delete the "GPL".

$dutty: I didn't expect YOU to make such a mistake.

O_o
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] s1rl4ncel0t:
Hi there,

I'm not a cooker, and I don't intend to be. However, I don't need to be a master of "rom-cooking", to distinguish between right and wrong.

I had education from my parents, that for example, thought me how to share my toys with my friends when I was a small kid...and if it would make me upset in the beginning, in the end I found the joy of sharing. It pleased me to see how my friends were happy to play with my toys. It made me happy...

So, this is what sharing is all about.

In the Trinity section, I helped the cooker Mary to build his roms, just by being a beta-tester. However, we decided that in our signatures, we would put a link to the Red Cross or Unicef institution, or just an advise telling that if someone want's to donate, than he/she should give the money to the first homeless person he/she see's. It would be very noble if others would do so.

But that depends on the conscience of each cooker. I don't blame them for asking money...but I wouldn't do it myself.

Anyway...Getting back to the my story-line, as I grew up, I started loosing what my parents thought me, and I became more selfish..I guess it's the natural way of life. However, today I try to make all efforts possible to go back to my kid behavior...but then, this "grown-up-people-world" in which we live, is not compatible with such "naiveness", and we'll eventually get screwed one day or the other.

That's why this virtual-world, the internet, where everything is possible, should be different from the world "outside". Here, it should be possible that we all could be kids again. Sharing, playing, laughing...if we can't use our community for this, than were can we do it????

It makes me sad, that this virtual-world is becoming corrupted as well...But if that's the way it's gonna be, than we should all play with the same rules...

Who gives fame to a cooker?....The users...

Who gives donations?....The users...

Who builds a community? A couple of cookers, or thousands of users?

The users are the responsible for this sudden "fame and glory" that cookers have here. It the end, a cooker doesn't make his work for money. He doesn't share because he's nice...He does it so that we users praise him, and feed his ego.

That's what all this is about: EGO ! Feeding the ego is a natural behavior of human being, and we can't blame the cookers for wanting to feed their ego. Hell, I try to feed my ego as well on my daily life. We all do!

This is not a movie of bad-guy vs. good-guy. It's just the normal way of life, which we should try to keep outside this forum...

So, I think it should be fare, if cookers would bare in their signatures a "Shared-Certification", and then we users would decide if we will install a "Protected-Rom" or if we will install a "Open-Rom", without discussing who's right or wrong.

HastaSSSS
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] sumitescp:
Mods I think its better to lock this thread as it is going nowhere. I have been reading all the opinions of the chefs, ex chefs, future chefs, users and I really think that locking a rom is perfectly fine because the chefs decide what to do with their rom. they are doing a big favour by sharing those here. regarding donations they are not obligating users to donate so only the people who want to they donate. well this is just my opinnion but really thinking this is not going anywhere.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development] panosha:
On the contrary, I prefer read the opinions of members of community for the subject. I prefer, from other stupidity that is written here.