yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
I have stumbled on web page of a project to port some 4+ Android version on NST which pretty much surprised me. Can not remember was it ICS or JB and hell Kitkat would be awesome for device that old. I believe that for that they must abandon B&N stuff almost completely unless they somehow ported it back from Glow versions? And counting in size expected I bet that they reformatted partitions on the device to make it happen. Now will that stick together or fall apart spontaneously is another question. I remember that on xda that somewhere was a thread about disabling OTA from B&N that could brake such upgrade but since they no longer support NST we should not worry about this. I wonder why did you said Lollipop as minimum choice? Do you consider it as minimum acceptable Android version or maximum that NST could possibly run?

As far as Linux go nah I will just play with old laptop instead. Although I caught myself looking to buy present for nephews in electronic realm. Arduino or Pie? aye there is the rub...

I didn't program anything reasonable for a long time. Therefore I am more than rusty in that field. Although I believesome Python or lua script I could manage if enough effort is put on my side.Julia look to me as a programming language that shows some promise to the future from old man perspective. Certainly none of those are useful to porting anything to Android and NST. For the moment I cut my appetite back and will look into how I can backup NST and make virtual image out of it to run it in Virtual box. There I hope to try to learn how things work on Android an play/apply changes in the sand boxed environment. If I break something no harm done just delete virtual drive and start again. I don't want to brick my only NST. Maybe I should buy used one for latter to as I see lot of UK used one have hit the market after B&N closed in UK.

I hate Java from reasons unwilling to disclose or as you said let's not start about that. Idea behind it is fine. Sadly it is lot to be desired on the implementation side. I totally understand that Java might give some benefits especially if we count in the already existing base of programs written on Java. Have a friend who learn and use Java but I personally never manage to overcome my personal detest of it.

Regarding backlight... I never saw Glow. Is there true backlight in like shining through panel? Or did they made something in line of those book lights for real books? I think that could work for capacitive screen but not so much so for IR like NST have. That should not glow much I think and could be regulated in illumination and colour.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
The NST has 256M RAM, the Glow2/3 has 512M, the Glow4 has 1G, my $40 phone has 2G.

The $60 Kobo I have has only 256M, but it just runs Linux.

I couldn't be bothered to update my NST even if you handed me an image on a platter.

ebay has the Glow4 (open box) for $130.

I wouldn't even try to update that to a newer version, too much work.

Since this thread started the Boox Poke3 6" reader has come out.

It has Android 10, 8 CPUs, 2G RAM, Bluetooth and lists for $190.

That's a heck of a lot more of a device than the Glow3 for $120.

It also doesn't have the ugly styling of the Poke2.

https://www.boox.com/poke3/

Hmm, currently not in the US warehouse.

I'm a big fan of Arduino and RPi, but it gets complicated.

An adult friend bought an Arduino, hooked up an LCD and a thermometer, loaded the sketch.

It worked. They got bored. End of the story.

I don't know what the solution is. You make it too easy, they get bored. You make it too hard, they get frustrated.

I'm not a fan of the whole Arduino infrastructure and the Processing language. I prefer just AVR8. But I am "old skool".

I use RPi a lot, but I've only seen the desktop version about once.

I use headless and also digital signage without X Windows or desktop.

The Glow2 has single color edge lit backlight, The Glow3/4 uses dual color (blending) edge lit backlight.

If you hold them sighting down the face of the screen at a very low angle you can tell there are discreet LEDs.

(It's nothing you could ever see in normal usage.)
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
I checked Boox first time you mentioned it. Impressive progress I must say. Paradox is that as I understand newer Android versions are more optimized to be run even on underpowered devices but I agree that NST is both old and underpowered. Still even you mentioned that Kobo has same low memory but still running successfully Linux only environment. That speaks a lot in Linux favor regarding resource management and use. Yes there are slim chances someone cook something up for NST and even then people will just buy new device that is several times better. You wouldn't believe but B&N readers are hard to find here. I had to ask a friend to bring me the one from Middle East because it was available there so go figure.

Thanks for the opinion about Arduino vs RPi. I think you might be right. Kids nowadays will be interested to program more than to assemble something and experiment. Its a shame because I think they could learn more about physics by fiddling with Arduino.

Thanks for explaining me or rather confirming how light on Glow device is made. I am curious how they sorted out possible interference of lighting with IR touchscreen but I guess they somehow used non overlapping LEDs for those two separate things or passthrough IR only filters on IR detector side. In theory even some simple software calibration could work for that but I am also an "old skool" and wouldn't choose that as my way had I have gotten the task to build something of this kind. I might rig me some "lights" for old fashioned hardcopy books. Not that I can't buy it online but I want to engage my fingers a little.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
If you haven't played with it yet, the Touch-1.0.apk (in the sig) works on the NST and will show you how/where the beams of IR go.

It can be helpful to see where dirt or distortion of the bezel is making it difficult for touches to be registered correctly.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
Since the party seems to be going into a topic of what next best e-reader should be maybe we could exchange opinions about certain things available as in are they necessary or good enough at this moment. For example Boox is offering a model that can show ebooks as black and white or I presume as 4 color "print". As B&W it present it as 300dpi which is on par with printed books and man can not ask for more in my opinion. Alas when it present 4 color "print" it is meager 100dpi that could mean even NST just blows it out of scene. So my vote on color e-reader is still no. If it ever reach 150dpi it will become a thing to consider but right now it is still under acceptable performance from mine point of view.

Do you consider making notes on a device important? I am asking because I have mentioned ReMarkable and Sony DPT (which is gone now). Sony again made good device only to withdraw from the market at the end. While I understand that in the e-reader case as Amazon blow them out securing the better library this time I am afraid it is Sony's own fault. There exist few rebranded models of hardware Sony used with seemingly better software Fujitsu Quadreno and Mooink Pro. Mooink support PDF, epub, docs and text and offers a software for file conversion and DRM management. There are few annoying things. Almost none have microSD card option now. It is replaced with cloud storage or printing. And I personally like having pen but I find being robbed when they sell it separately and with replaceable tips because they made those to wear out. Cost is way to high despite larger screen.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
I'm not clear on what you mean with "4 color".

The only thing that I can see on the website is a way to save your scribbles to an external file where you can set the color saved (but not viewed) on the device.

If you've ever seen a store white/red/black eInk shelf label update you'll know that that's only useful for things that change once a day.

I don't look too closely at the reader software itself since I'll probably just use my own.

I hate the sort of pictograph selection of small, medium, large font.

What if I want 5% larger than medium?

There's always a bit of conflict between SD card and waterproof.

I figure 32 GB fixed storage is large enough for me.

There's always a big tossup what is the correct mix of devices, phone, ereader, tablet, tablet with pen, tablet with keyboard, laptop, desktop?

I've never owned a personal laptop, never seen the sense (for me).

Rarely do I use a tablet or a phone with a BT keyboard when I want to do some sort of bulk inputting or fleshing out an idea or transcribing lyrics.

I kind of like digitizers, but never found a way that the utility exceeds the space they take.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color. Yet is it worth buying?

Yes I understand your choice to use custom reader software. File support seems to have always been a problem and it just went worse from there.

Yes waterproof device shouldn't have SD card. I have mean more in a sense of having the ability to root, backup and thinker with the device.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
The product selection of Onyx or Boox or Onyx Boox has always confused the heck out of me.

Currently on https://www.boox.com/allproducts/ there is no indication of anything color.

Moreover, the "About Us" speaks of "We focus on E Ink ( ePaper) devices only. "

But I do remember seeing something previously on the website that spoke of color.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
Yes product section is confusing on Boox. I found about that device here. https://onyxboox.com/boox_poke2color . Price is almost bearable. Device isn't locked up. You can install apps you want. Large number of supported file formats. Have Bluetooth. They could put there little bit bigger battery though. Microphone is there too. Android 9 and 8 core processor. 6 inch screen only with color maybe usable for comics hardly anything else above. Can use multiple dictionaries and have options for online use of Google translate. USB with OTG type C. Front light system is there also. 32Gb internal memory (not all available to user as system consume some space naturally) and 2Gb of RAM. They ticked almost all the right boxes. Still I have a feeling of so close but yet just a bit short of perfect.
[Nook Touch General] Pajamaman:
I agree Renata. I have moved onto the Onyx. I have a Nova 7.8 first generation and it works great. The power under the hood really shows.I also have a Poke Pro gen 1 that doesn't have the styling you don't like, but I don't use it. I like 7.8". The only problem with the Onyx is it closed and the creators refuse to respect license and release source for development. Maybe it can be hacked?

The only advantage of the Nook over the Onyx is the screen and comfort light. Both are better than the Onyx, but the Onyx screen and light are still very good. And of course, Nook is much cheaper.

But I've moved to Onyx. There is a Onyx sub-forum on Mobileread if you decide to try one out.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
I guess that the Poke 2 Color is just coming out. It uses the Kaleido technology.

Just make sure that you see one in the "flesh" before you buy it. (No, I haven't seen one.)

The Kaleido uses two layers, a pretty much standard eInk layer and a lower resolution "Color Filter Array" (CFA).

All the stuff is detailed here: https://www.eink.com/color-technology.html

There are reports that the white is grayer than on a regular B&W and that the backlight is more necessary.

Well, it depends how much it's locked down.

They could be making it difficult about getting sources and building from scratch but not particularly making it difficult to modify.

Being able to sideload is a minimal requirement, but it doesn't tell you how easy it is to root/modify.

(Aside: I only like rooting the ADB. I've no need for SU or Magic.)

Strangely enough, I'd rather modify than build from source.

I find it easier to just modify something than do a build which pulls in a few gig of sources.

Hmm, I'm not sure how much Onyx has screwed everything up by making the UI "skinned".

For my money, Bluetooth is very important. I use various page turners.

I don't use WiFi or internet browsers on my eInk devices.
[Nook Touch General] Pajamaman:
Onyx shut down their forum with a very long thread criticizing them about not releasing sources. In summary:

So they're not releasing modified open-source sources.

But they have a new forum and reddit page here:

General Discussion – BOOX Help Center

help.boox.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

I believe Remarkable is more open.

An alternative to Onyx is Boyue/Likebook. I had a Boyue a few years back. I had an Onyx at the same time (their first model I think). The Boyue couldn't run some apps and was prone too crash. The Onyx had its faults, but it is still running about 8 years later...It's a tank. I think Likebook/Boyue is much improved now, and some prefer it, though I think the general consensus remains that Onyx is more robust. Unlike Onyx, Likebook has an expandable slot, and does try to upgrade Android versions. Onyx does upgrade firmware.

Onyx has solid BT. It works with page-turners.

Remote control page turn on Onyx - MobileRead Forums

Remote control page turn on Onyx Onyx Boox

www.mobileread.com

I've never connected the Onyx via adb, but I assume it's possible.

Onyx Boox Max not found in ADB DEVICES - MobileRead Forums

Onyx Boox Max not found in ADB DEVICES Onyx Boox

www.mobileread.com

These Chinese Android readers are slightly odd beasts, I suspect. But saying that, I've been very happy with them. They are the closest modern thing I can find to the old rooted Nook ST, which to me is the gold standard. You can find a lot of them used. 3 of my 4 are second hand and going strong.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
Thanks to Renate for clarification how that technology works and especially for the added link. There they describe even better tech that is awesome (ACeP) but still overpriced today. Few years from now I expect it to become standard.

Also thanks to Pajama man for bursting the sales pitch from Onyx about it being "open". Well I guess it is more open then stock NST but not according to today standard.

As far as page turners, digitizers or other added bonus to a e-reader...heck I would like someone to cobble together a device that wouldn't have to use additional gadgets to make it better. Pen or voice input would be perfect but I agree that we seems to be just a little short to make it a reality. We can dream about it though there is nothing wrong with that. Tech progress is getting us to the point where we will be able to use devices the way we are used to and not conform ourselves to the ability of the devices. For example Fujitsu Quadreno have models A4 and A5 which imply that manufacturers are aware of the user preferences for acceptable screen size but yet so far they were not able to make a device at affordable price to fit inside that niche.

At the end I wish everyone that follow this thread good riddance of the past year and hopefully better new year.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
I use a wired button box on my Glow2.

It connects to the console connector on the back.

I send a command to a daemon so that I don't have to use the overblown "input" Java process.

Sometimes it's a hassle with Windows but you can always modify the .inf for VID/PID/MI and install it unsigned.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
I just checked what kind of e-readers is available at my local stores. They aren't very popular here and due to low demand for them only Amazon devices can be found pretty much regularly. Aside from them sometimes Pocketbook here and there and I guess that Remarkable have some audience amongst designers and artist crew but they are obviously purchased online due to a sales model choice of the manufacturer. Pocketbook isn't bad and they have also a color model in Kaleido tech that haven't yet reach our market. Amazon monopoly over e-book sales market gave them an unfair advantage so they offer bare minimum that they think good enough to keep the advantage. Remarkable might be open I couldn't know that for sure until I see one but it looks rather Spartan design to me. That is not surprising as it was designed as a notebook/sketchbook. Pocketbook Basic models that reach this market offers nothing special to make me wish to replace my NST. And surprise best selling models are still 6 inch screen ones. Renate might find something interesting in InkPad line of models they offer but as I have said that is more of European brand and I do not know is that available on USA market.
[Nook Touch General] jptiger:
Changing gears somewhat, one possibility that I'm thinking through is the original NST as a wireless eink display via VNC for something like a raspberry Pi.

The use case I'm envisioning would be a single-purpose eink tablet running an android app. For example stuck on my fridge connected to a shopping list app. Eink screens are notoriously expensive at any size over a couple inches, but B&N flooded the market so used "working" NSTs are going on Ebay for ~$20. The hardware inside may not be great as-is for all the reasons stated above, but I think it's good enough to run a VNC app to connect to something with more processing power.

The convoluted technical way I'd see this working is getting a Raspberry Pi 3 4, installing Android, and then setting the NST to VNC to the thing. Somehow. That last stet I'm admittedly a little fuzzy on, but if the battery drain from VNC isn't too bad, you could conceivably have a weird, duct-tape use case getting the NST to at least display and interact with modern Android apps. Not great for portability since it needs to be on a network with the pi, but perfectly acceptable as an eink Google Calendar to stick onto your wall.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
A lot of folks like VNC stuff, but eh...

The Nook has enough horsepower to do a shopping list by itself.

I'd rather either just make it a web page or an app that communicates over JSON to something.

I do use a RPi as a house server but usually just interact with it over web pages from an Apache server on the RPi.

I have written some apps that use JSON but I almost forget about that and just use the web page.
[Nook Touch General] jptiger:
I think part of the advantage of vnc would be the ability to use existing cloud data and services that don’t have readily available APIs. My wife and I use Microsoft To-do for shared grocery lists for example and share google calendars. My work uses Asana, and I have some shared projects managed in Trello. I‘d love to be able to use all of those things on a dedicated eink device each for $20 each and the cost of a couple Raspberry Pis.I get the technical ease of just displaying custom web pages but I‘d rather not sacrifice my friends, family’s and coworkers ability to access and collaborate on those platforms as they would normally on their own devices.
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
So you're saying that a RPi can somehow access these services and an Android can't?

I dunno, I can't imagine interacting with a device glued to the refrigerator.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
@jptiger I have seen few interesting development projects with e-ink screen at its base. If you are pursuing other use beside e-reader then maybe a planner/organizer is better option then simple to-do/shopping list for relatively static use or if you are planning some mobile use something like mobile phone with e-ink screen similar to Yota phone that pioneered that, but right now Hisense A7 (5G) and A5C are going into market. If you look what to do with NST then you should consider planner/organizer as your added goal or application but then why would you limit yourself to static console instead of developing an application that will work as such on a rooted NST. If we look into newer devices with extended usage then you should look these new phones. I have no interest right now for other uses then e-reader and find NST still adequate for that but as with paperbooks where market shifted to color printed books there is no reason to assume that same would not happen with e-books to which will in some near future make B&W e-ink hopelessly obsolete. Renate is right about syncing as better way to connect your devices in my experience.
[Nook Touch General] jptiger:
I meant more that an RPi running a newer version of Android (via method linked above) than the NST is capable of can do so more easily than the NST can on its own. If there’s some way to get the NST running a newer version of android, that would be much simpler, but as you noted above it seems unlikely to work well given its limited specs,
[Nook Touch General] Joydeck:
As a NST replacement, the B&W Onyx Boox Poke2 looks good for me.

I don't want Bluetooth and a 6" screen is fine. Web browsing and side-loading work. Importantly, the 32GB EMMC storage is sufficient for Aard2 dictionaries.

What's the downside?
[Nook Touch General] Renate:
The Poke3 is the same price as the Poke2, is "improved" (who knows how much) and more important has more subtle styling.

There is not even a home button. I don't understand that. Side buttons take room, so I understand that.

Would it have killed them to throw in a home button?

I'm not a fan of Button Savior or the tracking semicircle of round icons that Boox uses on the Poke.

It's not clear how rootable it is.

It's not clear how deeply skinned it is.

All this will take a bit of work.

It is $190.

If all you want is more memory why don't you add an SD card to your Glow?

I added 32 GB to my Glow2, my Glow3, my Glow4.

128 GB works too.

https://xdaforums.com/t/adding-an-sd-card-to-glowlights-2-3-4.3944830/

Unrelated: Poking in partner.apk I see that there is/was/could be a model BNRV700A

That's a 7.8" Glow4 with 32 GB storage.

It's not on the B&N website.

The regular BNRV700 is "temporarily out of stock" online although there is store availability.
[Nook Touch General] Joydeck:
Your helpful info inspired me to look closer. The Poke 3 is certainly an advance on the Poke2. Faster core and RAM, Android 10, USB C, BT5.0, and analogue audio support. Costs 30% more here.

Browsing, CoolReader and Aard2 all work on Onyx without the need to root.

Interesting that 128 GB SD cards work on Glow and, presumably, the NST. However, 32 GB is sufficient for either Aard or Aard2 but the latter requires Android 4. Hopefully Aard2 on Onyx will use screen touch for Up and Down because Aard on the NST needs the side keys. I also use the Home key frequently.

Still, no hurry to decide since the NST is fine despite losing some rubber on the side keys, and one of the four not responding so well.
[Nook Touch General] SJT75:
This opened one question I asked myself before already for a while. When I got NST and seen the specs went to near store and buy 32Gb SD card for it. I suspect from the start that it could support larger SD card if they are partitioned and as such enabled through some hack inside NST. Some other threads and uses of SD card often get me back to this idea. For example what if Nook Manager is on one partition and you basically never have to remove it from device, second partition is for backup, third could be for your experiments with other OS/ROMs and fourth is for your data/book collection? I am still worried about having software capable to wipe whole device on a partition though. Still does anyone else think that might be possible? Also would that come in handy/usable or would it be just a futile exercise in coding/patching NST underlying OS?