yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
I personally don't see what everyone sees in TouchWiz. It looks like a novelty...but not very useful. Cheesy eyecandy but without much functionality. Personally, I've never been a friend of the whole Google Desktop widget/Windows Sidebar/widget/desklet/etc., movement in *most* of its iterations.

With HTC Home and the new implementation with TouchFlo3d, at least what it does it make sure you can get everything you want done without having to see the windows mobile that lies underneath. The real problem is that windows mobile has to be covered up...but such is life. If you want a crisp interface, then I guess you have to lose superior functionality and customizability and get a *shudder* iPhone.

Beyond that...the way the Omnia switches from portrait to landscape...ok, it's cool that it has an accelerometer. But the whole zoom out, switch, zoom in, just seems incredibly unprofessional.

the cool thing about the Omnia, I think...is that it has 16 GB of space *and* microSDHC expandability.

but on the whole, I'm not too happy with the fact that (for America) Sprint is getting the next generation HTC phones but AT&T gets other things.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] godfa7h3r:
The Omnia is definitely impressive on paper, but I can't deal with the purely touch screen keyboard. Have you guys gotten a chance to play with the Vouges or Elfs? On pages without the ability to scroll down, the on screen keyboard covers the input so you can see what you are typing! I have a few friends with the Sprint Touch which I have played with and would never own one because of this. It drives me crazy. That device also sucks because it doesn't have an accelerometer so in order to switch screen orientation you need to setup a link in HTC Home to switch which is also incredibly annoying.

The Touch Pro and Xpera aren't a big enough upgrade for me. It's just not worth it IMHO. I think I'm going to hold out to see what Windows Mobile 7 phones will be coming out next year and just stick with my Kaiser for now. Or at least not get a Touch Pro on release date like I usually do and see what other people have to say about it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
on the other hand, the real problem with the vogue and elf is just that they were too small...and had the small WM keyboard. WM is definitely *not* a finger-friendly OS without getting other programs/etc.,

With the diamond keyboard and other attempts like it (e.g., touchscreen keyboards that mimic the iPhone's) you get much closer to fingerfriendly. The only question is if they are *good* implementations with good mistake detection or if they...aren't.

But yeah, I am wary too...it seems like these kinds of phone have *potential*, but they aren't definite wins.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Poetique:
::Continues looking at Sony Xperia & Samsung Omnia while pondering selling his Kaiser for $300 and upgrading while he still can::

Honestly I'd jump flat on the Omnia and not buy a new device for another 5 years if it had a keyboard. I mean... I suppose I could tote around a little pocket keyboard if necessary but... I'm so use to speed typing messages on the Kaiser now.

DAMN HTC for fubaring the Kaiser to begin with for that matter. If the graphics drivers were in place & the camera had a flash, I wouldn't consider upgrading at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] godfa7h3r:
Vouges and Elfs use an HTC keyboard as seen here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1539224&postcount=3

It is not a standard WM keypad and as you can see, take up over half the screen. Which presents a problem if you need to input text on a screen that can not scroll down or at the bottom of a page.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
Oh, I see. I forgot all about that.

on the other hand...it's still that two-key-to-one-button thing or whatever...I thought (incorrectly) that most of the bigger keyboards were 3rd party
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
What post are you referring to. I think you gave the wrong link.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
It is one that links to a post that has this pic, among others: http://www.coolsmartphone.com/images/stories/touchdual/inside/cc.jpg
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ramontrotman:
i disagree with you on this one. touchwiz interface seems implemented alot better than touchflo 3d. pay close attention to the word implemented. in all of those video....touchwiz never took took over the phone in the way touchflo did. touchflo is trying to hide the os more so than touchwiz. this is fine by me....what ever....but touchflo is only skin deep. touchwiz, from what i see in the videos....seems to be alot deeper and once again..better implemented.

as far as att not getting the newer generation of htc phones....i couldn't be happier. it broke my heart when i had to give up my hp hw with gps for a 8125 with a 224 mz chip??? wtf!!!. and that seemed to be the theme of "pocket pc phones" i say that because for a few years now....when you think ppc phones...you think htc. but im sooooo happy to see someone else going back to the intel platform. if you've never used an intel driven pocket pc....then you're either in for a treat or you've no idea what you'll be missing. belive you me....speed, power and responsiveness is the name of the game!!!!

bundle that with all the little things the sheep like to see....8-16gig hd? effects when flipping the screen? widgets?? its a winner!

the no keyboard thing is going to be new ground for me. i text and email so much it is ridiculous. but i am willing to adopt. if you've noticed lately....because of our dear friends at apple....the market is flooded with big screened keboard less phones. but the fact that the omina has the feedback option when typing.....makes me want to get involved even more.

the more we talk about it the more pluses we will discover with this phone. but for a die hard htc\tilt fan....its a bold move. but hey...a form factor is exactly that...and it will be changed and refined as time goes. i wonder how much of us here wasn't willing to give up our startac phones ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GenesysLV:
Damn straight. If only my kaiser had the horsepower my hx4700 does.

This is one of the main reasons I'm considering the Omnia.

I also agree that the touchWiz interface minus the widgets appears well thought out and implemented better than touchFlo (see the contacts video on youTube for a taste). I've played with touchFlo on a diamond and i don't necessarily hate it but it's not a significant advantage either. It's a little prettier than touchWiz IMHO, but I have seen a video by Arne Hess that has the touchWiz colors tweaked and it looks very nice. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
From all the reviews I have read, TouchFlo 3d appears to be much more inclusive...i.e., you are much more able to do the most common tasks with TouchFlo 3d and thus avoid WM6 completely. So, that doesn't seem "skin deep" to me. The implementation things I've heard for touchflo 3d are about some speed issues...not about how deep the rabbit hole is.

Perhaps I just haven't seen enough of TouchWiz, but really, it doesn't look like much of a novelty.

I mean, with the 8/16 gb storage capacity and intel platform, I'm sure the omnia will not disappoint...but still, I'm not sold on TouchWiz at all.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gmfeld:
Count me among those who can't imagine giving up my Tilt for a device without a physical keyboard.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joedoe:
From the specs it doesn't look like Omnia supports UMTS 850 and 1900 AT&T bands. Is that true?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ramontrotman:
well...lets talk about the downside of the omnia.

this will be going against my argument before about the odd ball resolution not being an issue....but as all of us know...these UIs are nothing but a rip and cab away. unfortunately....the omnia's lack of vga screws us hard. touchflo 3d vs touchwiz would never have been a debait worth having...why not? just have your favorite chef cook up a version with either UI of choice already cooked in. but because the screen is not vga....its going to be tough. even if they manage to get flo3d to run on qvga....this things still has an extra 200 px worth of resolution to account for. hmmmmm

then you've got the lack of keyboard....i myself will be one to struggle with this for weeks to come. but i am really looking forward to it.

next is the lack of stylus. but be careful here. from all the reviews of the omnia i've read the stylus is actually shipped with the device, its just placed in the case as oposed to the being on the device it self. its clear samsung doesn't want you to use a stylus, but they know the type of audience they're shipping to...so they provided it any way.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
Yes that is true.

Ok...

How about this. Take your 8125. Take a picture. Notice any lag. Nope. Now take your Kaiser or Diamond for that matter and take a picture. Still looks pretty crappy.

Now take a took at what the Omnia can do.

I know that the big downsides to the Omnia are the lack of a physical keyboard and a VGA screen, but I think those are things I am willing to live without. I don't think I will be buying another HTC device until for 1.) They stop using Qualcomm based CRAP!!!! 2.) They make something that actually looks good when playing videos. (Omnia DivX certified)

Nouf' said.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] joedoe:
Well, just checked the FCC site and it turned down that the I907 (US) version does support 850 and 1800 WCDMA bands.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ramontrotman:
bring forth the non-tilt2!!!!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
Do you have a link?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] GenesysLV:
I found it on the FCC's website.

Looks more like a blackjack style to me...

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=147609&fcc_id='A3LSGHI907'
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Jason Syn:
The X1 is coming to ATT, the Touch Pro is only gonna be CDMA for a Q3 release, and the Omnia is coming to ATT as well. So basically there are 2 options, the X1 is the Tilt 2 (which would make perfect sense since the screen does tilt a bit when the keyboard is slid out), or there is some super secret HTC device that will be pretty weak when put next to the X1 or the Touch Pro.

And just so you don't get all technical and compare features when it comes to road maps, they are just a round-about map of what the year looks like. They could be referring to the Tilt 2 in nomenclature alone just for the sake of the road map and a representation of a WM 6.1 device with those similar features.

Just my 3 cents :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] godfa7h3r:
I guess I could see the "Tilt 2" actually end up being the X1. But then it would have to be called the Sony Tilt 2 because I highly doubt Sony is going to let ATT debadge them by letting it be sold as simply an ATT brand.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
LOL if HTC makes up 80% of the marketplace and HTC lets AT&T do what they will they why not Sony.

Heck look how many other names for the Kaiser there are. Tilt, TyTN II, Vario III, etc.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Mikulec:
Yes, there is nothing more important then money.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Hyden121:
So I wonder if the Tilt 2 would have all of the proper drivers....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Keland44:
i guess my question would be if the x1 comes to att would cooked roms and what not get put on xda cuz after using cooked roms on my phone for so long i don't see me using one with out it
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
Doubt it. HTC + Qualcomm = under developed phone.

The Sony Xperia is made by HTC so I would believe there would be cooked ROM's for it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
Question my good fellows, Ive read that xperia only has a-gps is this true. It sounds moronic that they would not include gps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
http://wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs_agps_a_quick_tutorial.html

GPS vs. aGPS.

Quite simply...aGPS is not *necessarily* inferior to GPS.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] gsessons:
I just place this thread on the Touch Diamond post. I called AT&T yesterday about my Tilt and never said anything about an upgrade, the rep just took it upon her self to share some inside info with me and then changed her mine when she ask her co-workers and found out that she was not really suppose to tell me that.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=407005
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] DJayRage:
a-gps is assisted gps, similar to our Tilts. It uses a program (like quick GPS on our tilts) to find a sat signal much faster than usual.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
Just some speculation.. Giz had an article showing Sprints road map and guess whats coming in september for them.. Is that the same time frame????

http://gizmodo.com/5023378/leaked-s...ackberry-curve-and-possibly-the-htc-touch-pro
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
Not necessarily but its like comparing apples to oranges. One is gps and the other is an estimate using triangulation. Which prob means no tomtom or nav sofware. COuld be off by a little or whole lot. Just doesnt make sense that Sony would omit gps like that.

Omnia sounds like the sureshot. The samsung guts are too good which makes it possible to over look lack of vga and keyboard. Now to play the waiting game.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] utvol06:
Your mistaken...aGPS and GPS are virtually identical except aGPS can use triangulation to assist in getting a quicker GPS reading if in an area where GPS would be slow to pick up like in a building. Both GPS and aGPS are both still true GPS, aGPS has the potential to get quicker fixes in certain locations.

For example if you are standing in your room near the window and want to get a GPS fix it takes a while to pick up with normal GPS. With aGPS it will begin using triangulation to get an approximate location then it allows the GPS part to take over for an accurate fix.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] utvol06:
correct...some people keep thinking aGPS isn't true GPS, but it is.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
Yes but stop me if im being redundent. I know I am. If a device only has aGPS that product will not be able to use let say tomtom because it needs exact location. correct? So your saying that an ideal device would have both agps and gps like the kaiser.

Also reading up on the gsmarena copmments I saw that someone posted the omnia bieng available in the 3rd week of july. I called att and they said they had no idea when it was coming out and that they definately would of been notified by now if it indeed where to come out in 2 weeks.

Does anyone have any insight on this.

THe internet price for the omnia lwest price i got for the 8gig was 600. Anyone know much greenback we will be shelling out for such a product?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
The Tilt has AGPS (protip: it's redundant to put in both gps and agps...agps will do the SAME thing as gps BETTER and FASTER, the the kaiser does not, as you say, have both). It's not triangulation. What it is is using getting a faster lock on exact location...not triangulation.

Now, the device like the original iPhone, which does not have ANYTHING (gps/agps) MUST use triangulation. It cannot use tomtom because it does not have agps or gps.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
Incorrect. The kaiser has aGPS only. Clearly, with aGPS, it can use tomtom. Clearly, with aGPS, you get exact location. In fact, you get it faster because of triangulation as ASSISTANCE
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
OK!!! I fully understand now. I thank you for the explanation.

-S
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
no problem. as I linked to earlier, there is *one* possible caveat of aGPS...it can be severely locked down. After all, MOST phones have aGPS for the e911 service (so that 911 can get an exact lockon on location), but those phones probably are locked down so that aGPS cannot be used for anything else.

Usually though...for smartphones (such as the Tilt and the Xperia), aGPS is not locked down. You can *of course* use it with tomtom or anything else.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ProudPop83:
Nevermind my post.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ProudPop83:
This is not true. the Kaiser/Tilt may have aGPS but triangulation is not necessarily a tool for assistance. I use my Tilt while at sea for GPS position and for track data, in standalone mode on the aGPS reciever, triangulation is the primary mode of ways to establish a location and compared to a garmin GPS, The tilt is fairly accurate.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
I don't understand what your issue is...

the triangulation assists in establishing a location. Your account does not state anything to the contrary...?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] godfa7h3r:
So I think this will clear everyone up on the aGPS vs GPS question if someone can answer it.

Kaiser = You can get GPS whether you have cell service or not

X1 = ? (someone please answer)

Diamond = ? (someone please answer)

Touch Pro = ? (someone please answer)

GPS = Get a fix with no cell service

aGPS = From what it sounds like you guys are saying, can get a fix with or without cell service but faster with service.

So my question is what do all the Verizon "dumbphones" that use VZ Navigator have? Because they will only work if you have cell service. Is that pure triangulation or is it aGPS?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ProudPop83:
What i was saying was that your quote above isn't necessarily true. I get a faster fix when at sea 30 miles out using standalone GPS on my tilt then when using the other aGPS modes. In fact its slower for me on land. So getting it faster with triangulation as assistance isnt true. I seem to have a different effect. Not trying to start anything.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] Subversive Asset 2.0:
wouldn't it make sense that standalone aGPS mode works better when you are away from towers to triangulate (e.g., at sea)?

I guess mileage varies?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ProudPop83:
True but i still get a fix quicker that way ]on land then when the other modes are available, like using the Quick GPS download and other assists like that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
Just spoke to my friend who works at AT&T. He just told me that the omnia is not coming out for ATT. Can anyone disprove this?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
Well if this is true I am going to jump ship to Verizon. AT&T is putting all there marbles in the ****ty non MMS icrap.

If this is true this will be a sad day....regardless if it comes to AT&T or not I will save up to buy this phone before I spend more money on some Qualcomm based crap!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ramontrotman:
i hope this isn the same person that tells people to hard reset their phone when they call with a hardware issue.

point - att sales people are as smart and knowledgeable as a box of rocks.

next speculation please....
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
I like rocks :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
heh heh our absolutely right they don't know ****. Everywhere I look I see that ATT is getting both x1 and omnia.

Im going crazy here with this kaiser. No roms to flash anymore. If there are they're Sh1tty. THe Kaiser era is done.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
or here is a break down between gps and agps. After reading this, there should be nothing to debate. Thank you please drive through. ding ding

http://wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs_agps_a_quick_tutorial.html
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] godfa7h3r:
ATT sales people don't know what they are talking about. I went into an ATT store to get my Tilt on release day and no one even knew what it was. It was the first time they heard of it.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] mistabeo:
the video driver/other issues with the tilt has turned me off.. no more HTC goods for me.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
I ageee. HTC keeps making ****ty products...and Samsung stepped it up.

Time for the new emperor to reign. Kaiser in German means King / Emperor.

I had the same experience. One guy actually said I think T-Mobile or Verizon has it. They are all idiots. I love going into the stores and making a mockery of there profession when I know more then them. So sad.

I agree. Bring on the Omnia. Once HTC goes away from Qualcomm then I will come back.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] miketuri:
what a device warranty center guy told me

hey all,

the battery pins of my TILT (9 months old) just crapped out and I was very upset. ATT store in Long Island told me to go to NYC. So I go and wait 90 minutes for my exchange, afraid that I will be turned away for flashing my TILT (L26V9 in this incarnation). they asked no questions, went and got a refurb (unboxed in better condition than mine was) and i was out of store in no time. (Some reading told me some folks were charged whence flashed phone arrived at HTC, that will not be allowed to happen!)

while waiting I asked the seeming knowledgeable (?) salesman about the "TILT 2." he told me not to expect it in 2008. he said there are so many things to do before thats ready. i told him about the new roadmap, he told me it would take a while.

maybe its me, but i'd like a muhc more powerful device than the one who's specs are up there. bigger RAM, storage and processor. i like the potential idea that they are going with the TILT feature, it really should be on all slide-outs or more than just one model.

finally, since exchanging, i have not flashed any ROMs. i'm gonna hold off on that until the July TILT update from ATT and then wait for new TILT kitchen roms, which will probably be real nice as far as TILT stability, right?

i decided to not flash but add a bunch of CABs, (HHC, HTC Camera, HTC Album, iContact, a dialer skin, Diamond Control Manager, KaiserTweaks, etc.)

and the phone is running fast and accurate. No glitches or portrait to Landscape issues to speak of. (although i did get Raiisak's black bar for a few screens). Pretty happy about that.

OK, wow that was not short.

bye.

michael
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] sdlopez83:
right . Kaiser stemming from Caeser for you history majors

@Mike

I had the same problem 3 weeks ago. I called att and they sent me the refurb in 2 days.; Pretty stress free. I just had to reflash stock and I was good to go and didn't have to go anywhere. Also which store did you go to in L.I. The guys over at the one at merrick are cool with the flashing they wanted me to put roms on theres.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
Typically the people who work at these Device Support Centers are not AT&T employees but are outsourced by AT&T to work there.

Once again sales people usually know nothing about devices and it's speculation at best what would be the Tilt 2. I say it's the Sony Xperia which is another crappy Qualcomm based device.

As long as I can get my hands on a Omnia by the end of the yaer. I will be ok.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] AllTheWay:
That's what I have a degree in. Also a minor in Hellenistic Studies!