yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
My question still remains if you pack your TP in your baggage resting on the power button, is this fix going to prevent your tablet from cycling on and off or are your gremlins going to have fun turning your TP on every time this fix turns it off? If that is the case, I don't see the value in putting this modified version of TWRP in /boot.

Smithy
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
I have also seen by coincidence a Tablet booting up, just place flat on a table. When the Tablets are full charged and place in normal room temperature, the battery should last for about 6 months or more with no need to recharge it or getting completely drain.

Last month a couple of Tablets got full charge and place on a table. One day as I was passing by the screen turn on into moboot and then to Recovery as there was no OS installed, then I turn it off and did not give it any importance. Over two weeks ago I try to turn on the same Tablet, but nothing will happen. Place it on the wireless charger and the Home Button LED light came on moving side to side, after some time the Low Battery symbols came on and then after some hours it booted into Recovery. The other Tablet also had a drain battery but it booted into the Low Battery symbol. That is when I decided to look for a way to keep the Tablet off if by any means got turn on and PowerOFF was my solution.

I am not saying that all Tablets do turn on by themselves but some do and that can explain why some users report of dead batteries and others pull a Tablet that has been stored in a drawer for long time and still have battery remaining.

What could cause a Tablet to turn on by itself?

I do not have an answer, but only speculations.

((( Electrical spike (surge) of the battery that tricks the charging board that it got plug into a PC or charger...... )))
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
If a gremlin decides to turn on the Tablet, it will automatically turn off preventing more gremlins damage and a possible data breach.

PowerOFF is gremlin-proof, it does not provide any visual feedback to keep them entertain, they will quickly acknowledge the Tablet is already malfunctioning and not working moving on to the next mobile device " Your Smartphone"
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
So you have answered my question. If someone has a TP that has a propensity to turn itself on, your modified TWRP will turn it off but not keep it turned off. So a TP could sit there, turn on, and turn off until the battery is depleted. If a TP gets turned on by accident, for whatever reason, your modified TWRP will turn it off but not keep it turned off. So a TP could sit there, turn on, and turn off until the battery is depleted.

You should be aware that your suggestion that a person should charge their TP to 100% to store it is not recommended by lithium battery manufacturers.

From PowerStream.com:

The batteries should be stored at room temperature, charged to about 30 to 50% of capacity. We recommend that the batteries be charged about once per year to prevent overdischarge.

PowerStream Note: Test data confirms that storage of lithium-ion batteries is best if the cell is partially discharged. In one test by Cadex Electronics ( http://www.buchmann.ca ) after 1 year storage at 25°C the non-recoverable capacity remaining is 96% when stored at 40% initial charge level, but only 80% if stored with 100% initial charge level. This effect is reduced at lower temperature and is a non-issue at 0°C. At higher temperatures the effect is much worse. Cadex's recommendations are to store below 15° C at 40% of full charge (3.5 volts per cell). Our experience is that with cells stored at room temperature for 3 years that the non-recoverable capacity did not decrease, so this is probably manufacturer dependent.

I also have good news for you, Middle_Road's reference to gremlins is only metaphorical. Gremlins are only mythical creatures invented to entertain readers of fantasy literature not attack your TouchPad or Smart Phone. So your devices are safe. :cyclops:
[TouchPad General] middle_road:
That is why, usually, your new-in-box device is only partially charged when you unpack it.

Gremlins: They weren't 'invented', they were 'created' based on real world observation and experiences. :cool:

So when something happens that can't be explained easily, the Gremlins are guilty until proven innocent.

Especially when dealing with electrons.

...

..

.
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
ROTFLMAF...... :D

My bad,

I also have good news for you, Middle_Road's reference to gremlins is only metaphorical. They were 'created' based on real world observation and experiences. :cool: So when something happens that can't be explained easily, the Gremlins are guilty until proven innocent. They will not attack your TouchPad or Smart Phone. So your devices are safe.

How's that? :p
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
I am aware of the Gremlins terminology, [MENTION=3698561]middle_road[/MENTION] already gave a great explanation !
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
You said: When the Tablets are full charged and place in normal room temperature, the battery should last for about 6 months or more with no need to recharge it or getting completely drain.

Lithium battery manufacturers recommend not doing that. "The batteries should be stored at room temperature, charged to about 30 to 50% of capacity. We recommend that the batteries be charged about once per year to prevent overdischarge."

SIX MONTHS is considered storing a device.

That page from the HP manual has nothing to do with putting your TP away for a long period of time such as you suggest, 6 months. It has to do with every day usage and how to make your battery last longer. If someone even plans to stop using their device for a couple of months, they should drain the battery to between 30 and 50% and then put it away.
[TouchPad General] middle_road:
Gads, no need to yell, easy on the caps and large fonts.
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
All devices manufactures include in the manual to fully charge the battery before use and always keep it charge. It does not make any sense at any time to only charge the battery 50-80% to last longer. The device must have a completely full charge battery to get the most out of during use, is common sense.

As for storage, my real life experience has been completely different.
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
Charging the HP Touchad for that past 3018 days.

My original HPTP 32GB that I bought the very first day of the fire sale on August 20 of 2011 from hhgregg on 10:20 am EST. ( Receipt available )

From: Saturday, August 20, 2011 To Saturday, November 23, 2019 the day of this post it has been:

8 years, 3 months, 4 days or

99 months, 4 days or

431 weeks and 1 day or

3018 days or

72,432 hours or

4,345,920 minutes or

260,755,200 seconds.

The Tablet currently has a perfectly working WebOS, set up to tripple boot into Android (Pie) or LuneOS.

Most of the use has been done in WebOS until late 2016 and has been used as follow:

Full charge to 100 % and after some portable used, recharged to 100 % and place it away, it has always been inside the cover and charge with the regular wall charger.

By 2017 I started using Android more on another pre-owned Tablet and the original has been on a desk inside the cover. It gets fully 1005 charged and turn off.

Some times it has been more than 6 month before it gets turn to check on battery.

I do not know specifically how many times the battery got completely drained, but it did occurred maybe more than 4 times.

The following data and screenshot are of the mentioned Tablet showing the Health Status of the battery.

To get the current and proper battery capacity use this guide:

Click HERE for Novacom command list

open a command prompt or terminal on a PC with the novacom driver an enter:

novacom -t open tty://

then

battery status

to finish enter poweroff or reboot

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ novacom -t open tty://
battery status
battery present
voltage: 4113840
percentage: 100
current: -861562
capacity: 6483200
] a6 version
A6 Version: HW Ver: 12, FW Ver (major): 2, FW Ver (minor): 13, Fw Ver (build): 25, Pkg Rev: 12
] poweroff

Sat Nov 23 14:57:51 2019
novacomd socket was closed prematurely
novacom: unexpected EOF from server

The App Dr. Battery in WebOS is used to check on the battery status, attached are screenshots.

The Kernel in WebOS provides all the proper information to the Apps as is the native and provides 100% support to all the hardware including the a6 battery chip.

Click HERE for Dr. Battery forum

The battery is at 93 % capacity, almost as new and according to all the battery manufactures " Lab Test" it should have been dead long time ago.

The Tablet room temperature has always been around 80 - 85 Fahrenheit ( 26 - 29 Celsius ) not the idea of 59F (15C)

It has always been kept full charge when not in use.

This has been a real life test of 3018 days, not in a Lab, an artificial control environment of charging and discharging rapidly.

From my experiences Lab test can provide certain important data but only Time and true usage is the final answer.

There is no way a manufacture can accurate test a product in a short period of time to replicate its real time life expectancy.

Only the user could provide the results after been using the product in a certain way for a prolong period of time.

It will be interesting if current users could issue the command novacom -t open tty:// battery status and report the capacity of the battery.
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
Your real life experience does not supersede the manufacturer's recommendations on how to properly prepare a lithium battery for STORAGE or periods of non-use such as 6 months. Why would you choose to recommend doing something that goes completely against what the manufacturer suggests?

---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

Can't believe you would waste all this time and effort to thumb your nose in the face of what the companies that manufacture these batteries recommend. Any smart person would choose to believe what they recommend rather than you.

We haven't even touched on what the current philosophy concerning the charging of lithium batteries is today. It's called the 40/80 rule. Try not to discharge your battery below 40% and stop charging when it reaches 80%. This helps give you maximum battery life.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/Tech/2014/0103/40-80-rule-New-tip-for-extending-battery-life

Just like the recommendation to set the charge to around 50% to store a lithium battery, the 40/80 rule for charging is just a recommendation if you want to get the maximum life from your battery. But I suppose you will take issue with that too since it does not fall into your real life experience.

---------- Post added at 02:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

Sometimes one has to speak a little louder to get through to someone who does not listen very well. And he is definitely hard of hearing when it suits him. His inability to accept real facts as presented it typical for him. He lives in his own distorted reality that does not mesh with the rest of the world. Sad :(

Look at his response to what I said. What alternate reality is he living in?
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
Can't believe you would waste all this time and effort to thumb your nose in the face of what the companies that manufacture these batteries recommend. Any smart person would choose to believe what they recommend rather than you.

I have provided the screenshots, proof or real test of over 8 years. Post the link of a test that was conducted for that long.

We haven't even touched on what the current philosophy concerning the charging of lithium batteries is today. It's called the 40/80 rule. Try not to discharge your battery below 40% and stop charging when it reaches 80%. This helps give you maximum battery life.

The controller (chip) is programed by the device manufacture in this case by HP to take that into consideration. When the battery is showing 100 % charge is not using the full capacity of the battery. That is why HP and all other device manufactures states to fully charge the device before use, it does not say 80 %.

Show me in any manual where it says to charge at only 80 %.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/Tech/2014/0103/40-80-rule-New-tip-for-extending-battery-life

Just like the recommendation to set the charge to around 50% to store a lithium battery, the 40/80 rule for charging is just a recommendation if you want to get the maximum life from your battery. But I suppose you will take issue with that too since it does not fall into your real life experience.

You got to learn the meaning of many words beginning with " recommendation ".

---------- Post added at 02:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

Sometimes one has to speak a little louder to get through to someone who does not listen very well. And he is definitely hard of hearing when it suits him. His inability to accept real facts as presented it typical for him. He lives in his own distorted reality that does not mesh with the rest of the world. Sad :(

Look at his response to what I said. What alternate reality is he living in?[/QUOTE]

I provided my real facts, I am not repeating general information that does not apply specifically to the Tablet.

Prove me wrong and post a screenshot of your Tablet showing the capacity available using:

novacom -t open tty://

battery status
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
"Technically the battery in the Tablet is a Lithium Polymer"

I never said it wasn't.

"I provided my real facts, I am not repeating general information that does not apply specifically to the Tablet."

Any information from reputable sources about lithium batteries applies to the battery in the TouchPad.

"Show me in any manual where it says to charge at only 80 %."

I never said it was in any manual, I said it was the current philosophy concerning the charging of lithium batteries. Where did you learn to read?

"I have provided the screenshots, proof or real test of over 8 years. "

8 years of screen shots does not supersede the recommendations of legitimate sources of information about charging lithium batteries.

"Prove me wrong and post a screenshot of your Tablet showing the capacity available"

Why would I want to do that? I know exactly how my battery is doing using Battery Monitor Widget.
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
The Kernel communicate to the hardware and pass the information to Android and the Apps use those numbers to display in a graphical interface to the user on how the battery is working.

The Android Kernel for the HPTP is way more than perfect, but it lacks some native features of the hardware that is only available using WebOS or the Bootie with the novacom.

commands.

Battery Monitors in Android does not have access to the actual capacity of the battery for the HP Touchpad, is only represented as an estimated manufacture value, but it can not read the real value as the kernel needs to make that connection.

The lack of real information will cause more damage than ignorance by itself.
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
I have found in my research that in general that the rules that apply to Lithium ion batteries also apply to Lithium Polymer batteries too. And there are certain aspects that only apply to the Polymer battery. But to say that the battery in the TouchPad is unique unto itself is false. The rules and guidelines that apply to any battery in that class apply to the TouchPad battery as well. That to depend on what is said in the owners' manual only is very narrow minded on your part. Nothing I have read in the TouchPad owners manual speaks to how it's battery should be prepared for periods of non-use only the every day usage and charging of the device. Why you have a problem with advise and wisdom of others who know a whole lot more about the Lithium class of batteries than you is beyond me, and NO I am not referring to myself so don't even go there. Keep an open mind once in a while, you could learn something. I bet if I were to post here why I think the sky is blue, you would find an argument of your own to say I am wrong. Maybe that is why people like Shumash have refused to deal with you anymore.
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
That is your attitude and not mine, this guide is the perfect example of your Dark Sky. I found an issue and posted a solution to share it with who ever wants to use it.

From the very beginning your intention has been criticizing of useless and nonsense.

All my Guides are under TouchPad General, which is basically to provide help or sharing information. I am not posting under Touchpad Developement or asking for input to deal with nobody and there is no reason for anyone to deal with me either. Keep in mind I am a regular user, not a developer.

I do not mind any critique, that is the reason for all the threads on XDA. But if anyone is willing to engage into a discussion, it must provide some valid real life proof and not just VAPOR.

I have provided my facts, but you do not want to undisclosed your Tablet's battery capacity using the 40/80 philosophical approach.

Without real data to compare nothing can be learn and all that is left is VAPOR.
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
From your reference:

Now, this is by no means the be-all and end-all of information, and it's always important to consult the instructions for your specific equipment.

The battery controller of the Tablet is already program by HP to do all that. When the Tablet display that is 100% charged, is not to the full capacity of the Lipo.

Is already program to never charge at full capacity. That is something you do not understand. All the information you are reading is for RAW Lipo not the actual finished product.

Where is your battery capacity? If you have follow all the rules that you think must be apply to the Tablet, then your batteries should be at 93% capacity like mine.

Show the facts and stop VAPORIZING.
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
OK slick, I have no idea what these numbers indicate as related to battery health. There are so many factors that go into determining battery health such as age, charge and discharge cycles, voltages used, abuse such as over and under charging, storage at improper temp and charge levels, how this one quick inquiry can determine a batteries' health is IMHO your version of smoke.vapor.

Here is the status of my other TP, battery status 2
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
And I just ran Battery Monitor Widget and it shows me the same basic readings as your method. Again, there is no way a simple inquiry of battery status can show the true health of a battery. How can you sit there and dispute the expertise of people who know a whole lot more about how to properly maintain a LiPo battery than you.
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
The first (A) Tablet has a capacity of 3468800 , which it could be translated to approximately 57% of the total battery, meaning 43% of the cells are not been charge.

Tablet (A) will stop charging when it reach 3468800 and it will show 100 % at only 57% capacity.

The second (B) Tablet has a capacity of 5180800, which could be translated to approximately 86% of the total battery, meaning 14 % of the cells are not been charge.

Tablet (B) will stop charging when it reach 5180800 and it will show 100% at only 86% capacity.

Tablet (B) holds 29% more electricity than Tablet (A), making (B) healthier.

To prove it, use the Tablets at the same time as running a movie or streaming. Tablet (B) will outlast (A).
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
Can you provide the screenshots in Android of the Battery Monitor Widget providing the capacity as listed?

Seen is believing, lets look at the data first

To get other battery info, this command can be use:

chg battery
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
And what math do you do to get these figures?
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
Post the screenshots from the Battery Monitor App showing the available capacity and the math formula will be right there.

If possible do it from both tablets to compare.
[TouchPad General] Touchie Pad:
It will be interesting if current users could issue the command novacom -t open tty:// battery status and report the capacity of the battery.[/QUOTE]

Here are the battery status' of 3 touchpads only the last was fully charged...not sure if that matters
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
Here are the battery status' of 3 touchpads only the last was fully charged...not sure if that matters[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot for posting all that data !

Yes it makes a difference to show the information when full charge to 100 %, is the only way to know the full capacity of the remaining battery.

It will be interesting to compare the other two Tablets that are at 49 and 48 % when completely charged.
[TouchPad General] Touchie Pad:
It will be interesting to compare the other two Tablets that are at 49 and 48 % when completely charged. [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Here they are again...fully charged

What kind of a difference do you think flashing the A6 hardware from the toolbox would make?
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
That was a quick charge! Thanks again for cooperating.

You can flash the A6 from the toolbox and see what happens, but from my experience.

This is my take on it:

I think that when the A6 is flash, the battery controller data is reset to factory conditions, like charging times, discharged and charge cycles.

But the capacity is not reset, is more of a physical state of the battery. Think of the capacity as the amount of electricity it can hold, even if is 100% charged is only to that capacity and not the full brand new battery state. The capacity information is the most important data to have from the battery, that determine how long the battery will last when unplug.
[TouchPad General] smithylovestouchpad:
No need!!! I've got my answer. I managed to get in touch with an electrical engineer who is highly familiar with Lipo batteries and happens to have experience specifically with the TouchPad among other devices. This is what he told me:

Concerning the kernel measuring battery capacity - it doesn't. Two constants are stored in the kernel configuration, the battery max. capacity and the battery max. microvolts. These are supplied by the manufacturers. Additionally, the current battery microvoltage is reported from voltage sensors. Battery capacity is calculated as the ratio of current voltage to max voltage times max battery capacity. Battery monitor reports the kernel stored max battery capacity, but lets you change it. Talk about different charged cells and capacities are so much BS.

So there you have it PAL! As you say, you are just a user and sure as hell don't have the credentials. I think you should move on to your next project, cause this one is done.

---------- Post added at 03:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 AM ----------

Here they are again...fully charged

What kind of a difference do you think flashing the A6 hardware from the toolbox would make?[/QUOTE]

According to his method of determining your battery's health, those two batteries are all but dead. OH well! :(

BTW, why don't you flash the A6, run your tests again and see what happens.

Smithy
[TouchPad General] HP_TOUCHPAD:
You won't post the screenshots of Battery Monitor because now you realize that the capacity is not the actual and the user needs to enter it manually, which is providing false information. Showing the battery is good and healthy when is all the opposite. You do not need to post your FAKE Battery Monitor, I will do it.

Remember we all have the same Tablet and can install and run the same App, so your LIES can be proven easily !
[TouchPad General] Touchie Pad:
Those wireless charging stands are amazing....years ahead of their time.

I don't see much of a change after a flash....to the capacity listed anyway....It always felt like it helped, but maybe just wishful thinking.