yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] NotATreoFan:
The iPhone ships with a SIM card already inserted, and that is the one you are forced to use with it (unless you jailbreak it and switch carriers). The 3G iPhone may be $199 to buy, but the rate plans are going to be more expensive then the current ones.

Cell minutes will probably be the same price, but unlimited data will increase to $30 ($40 if your phone is on a business account). However, at least original iPhone owners won't get screwed on the new prices... People who upgrade will have their current plans grandfathered over to the new 3G model.
[Off-topic] KD8DNS:
IMO, I have never been one to follow trend, I do my own thing. It utterly floors me to see the vast amounts of people waiting 2-3 days in line to get the iphone. I can litterally have ANY phone from AT&T for free, I use the tilt, And will continue to to do so unless another winmo device gets picked up like the X1.

I guess my dislike for the iphone rests in the fact its not a customizable device. I had one for 3-4 months and it was like apple still owned it, not me.

and for anyone that has used/owned you catch my drift.

The sdk is bullsh*t, you should be able to put 3rd party apps on it without ANY modification, it's concidered a PDA therefor it should act like one. There are also some underlying technical problems with the way the device communicates with the 3g network. I obviously cant go into detail on this thus far.

With the above being said it will be very interesting to see how pissed off people will be at release when the (for example) tilt connects to 3g and a iphone sitting right next to it does not:D (dont tell anybody i said that).

And anybody that knows my profession, knows that this is credible.

So in closing, if your one of the ones that is going to wait in line to get iphone2, i would reccomend waiting. Yes the user interface is user friendly, but at this point THATS IT!!! The phone has always sucked and will continue to suck.

OHHH, and im sure p1tater will be first in line, LMFAO, sorry bud had to do it.
[Off-topic] AthenaLod:
This thread has a poll, maybe merge the two threads?
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
Interesting point of view from someone "in the know" although, even without the problems you state, it still does nothing compared to the Tilt, and all the "revolutions" have already been implemented in other devices...
[Off-topic] nace222:
Exactly!

i this and i that.......still no pic txting.....HSDPA is way better (igarbage = HSDPA 3.6 vurses our 7.2!....not to mention no SLINGBOX!

http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/at...116563-iphone-3g-cometh-2008-06-10_174739.jpg

The Tilt is by far the most suited for me. Word, PDF, Excel and PPT files I use everyday and being in printing I have converted so many damn Vista files on my phone vs on our XP computers in the office.

IMO (like said before) the only compelling argument ifruits have is that even if your the ugliest person on the street when you pull that phone out you look more stylish = SO!

Not to mention reading the apple forum makes me laugh......there even more noobish than some peeps here!

Again all in my own opinion......No Sling.....no Bluetooth???? WTF?
[Off-topic] NotATreoFan:
As of right now, the only carrier that has confirmed prepaid support is Orange. The ONLY way to buy the iPhone officially in the US is at an AT&T store or Apple store, and you must activate right there on the spot. No contract... no phone.
[Off-topic] tjkhattak61:
iPhone2 ???? definitely No :p.
[Off-topic] jellycow:
Thank god for Apple

I'm not saying I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and get the iPhone 3G. It's just not that much of an improvement over the old iPhone. I really like my 8925 (with my 3125 as backup).

But understand this is coming from a very American point of view...Thank god for Apple and its iPhone 3G! I was not impressed by the device. But when I saw the subsidized price, I was floored. Just think of the possibilities of what will happen to this market in the next 6-12 months!!! It's all about competition and it can only be good for the consumer.

Getting a pretty capable 3G handset into the hands of regular consumers can start that momentum for these US operators to really start competing on features and services. We've had lot of 3G handsets...but nothing so easy for regular joe-schmoes to pickup and use. I hope iPhone succeeds...I hope it pushes our carriers to add new features and new services, lower prices, and start to push the envelope a little...catch up a little to the rest of the world!

And I hope this $200 subsidized price pushes all the other companies to compete on price! I see rumors of HTC Diamond Pro and Sony Xperia X1 being around $4-500 AFTER the subsidy. I hope these guys are shaking in their boots. Because even with single carrier contract being barrier to entry, iPhone will still eat into their market share....and they'll have to react.

Then when HTC and Sony are forced to get on the market for around $250 subsidized price...man...I'll be the first in line!
[Off-topic] kane81:
I think I will jump ship.... watching the keynote really impressed me, especially RAD development.
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
Unlike the iPhone, the Raphael and X1 both have newer technology, not 2 year old stuff that is both crap and "revolutionary". Both the Raphael and X1 are business orietated devices, they are far more corporate, and far more powerful than the "I can't make up my mind if I'm a business phone or a consumer device so I'll sell my self as both and do niether" iPhone...

Both the X1 and the Raphael have higher res screens, hardware keyboards and a hell of a lot more functionality (both hard ware and software wise).

The Diamond is the closest thing to the iPhone (in terms of size and price point) but even that uses better hardware, has a higher clocked processor (528MHz instead of the 600 underclocked to 400MHz iPhone) and has far more standadised software (WM, and all the things that come with it).
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
Whilst the iPhone may have more storage built in, I could plug a 32GB MicroSD card into the newer devices and have double the available memory...

Okay, so the iPhones interface is quite nice, but think about it, all that interface is is a launcher. The size of the icons is about that of the Programs menu in WM, just hide the start bar and softkeys, and it does the same thing. Or, you can just get a program like iFonz (for free without Apple raping you for not having as a signed app) and do it better with more options for that one program than for the entire iPhone.

The "MultiTouch" (for me, the only advantage of the iPhone) is under used, very few programs use it at all, and those that do have limited functionality than can be bettered using hardware buttons. The same is true for the rotation sensor, and the Diamond (and the Raphael for that matter) has a tilt sensor that can be used for games as well (see the press release of it for something on that).

Apple has finally realised that an SDK and opening up the software may help, but for WM, you've been able to develop apps since its release, with many different IDEs and SDKs. There are far more programs and developers for WM than for the iPhone because it is far easier to develop for, and not restricted by WM (although there are some certificate checks, they can easily be disabled).

Add to that the fact that although the "new", "revolutionary" (both terms are utter crap, the technology is not new, and neither is the implementation. The only "new" thing is the marketing) iPhone will actually be more expensive over the two year minimum contract on AT&T, it seems even less attractive.

People seem to be comparing the Raphael and X1 as the competition for the iPhone, and that is plain wrong. They are the next tier above the iPhone, the have hardware keyboards and other business features, where as the iPhone has a "revolutionary" music player (a repacked version of the same software used on all their "revolutionary" music systems), and a browser that is worse than the beta versions of Opera Mobile 9.5... The competition for the iPhone is the Diamond, with its user friendly UI, but the ability to use it as a different device, with a proper OS and some form of functionality.

If you look at HTCs pricing strategy, you will see what I mean: They have the low end, Touch (the original one) device, with higher end devices (Touch Dual etc) with different functionality and newer technology, leading up to the Kaiser etc with the latest and greatest (maybe without drivers) technology, but even with some lackings, they still do far more than the iPhone. Even the Original Touch does more!

I can see that the iPhone may seem attractive with its excellent marketing, but seriously, what can it do better than my Prophet running WM6.1, with some apps from XDA-Devs?
[Off-topic] Blowfish64:
Use a responsive OS?
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
Umm... With my own ROM, I can probably do things faster than the iPhone, and I annoyed the last person to say their iPhone was faster by loading up iFonz and then crushing the iPhone with the superior loading times, and the fact I could play music in the background whilst having youtube in the foreground...
[Off-topic] jellycow:
I've never said iPhone is just as advanced as devices from HTC or whatever. My point is that for $200 (free in some European networks), it kicks it to the curve in terms of value proposition, and HTC and Sony needs to step up (which is what I want them to do). I can't imagine a single consumer/typical business phone users in the market thinking about the state of things the way you are describing. We'll see how numbers turn in next few quarters, but with economy the way it is, I can't see that many business users around me clamoring to spend double the money for an HTC device.

SanDisk et al barely is at about 16GB with microSDHC that they hope to ship sometime this month for over $200 (their 12GB card is $179.99). 32GB are at least 5-6 months away.

I doubt that 2 devices out of 100's that support a feature will result in apps supporting that feature in the future. With its both pros/cons, having a single OS/Hardware provider does give Apple bit more control on what they can manage.

I used to pay $40 a month for unlimited 3G using my 8925. If I were to decide to switch to the iPhone, I'll save $10 a month. I know people bring up this point about how iPhone's new 3G plan is more expensive, but it's not. I know people with AT&T BlackJack2 that's paying $40 a months as well. (I finally figured out my old 3125 smartphone plan product code so I'm back to $20 a month for unlimited internet...not sure if it's capped at Edge, but it'll do for Exchange uses)

I'm not sure if consumers will see it this way. I personally find keyboard a must...but I troll these forums for new ROMs and such continously. I honestly don't know a single person around me (very tech savvy users but not HTC fanboys) that won't consider the iPhone 3G next to a HTC Diamond Plus or X1. It's just economics.

There is no one product that's better for everyone. Some will pick iPhone, some will pick the HTC. Competition is good. But I can see how iPhone is a more compelling package to consumers. So we'll see how people vote with their wallets.
[Off-topic] hambola:
Yeah the $200 price point is key. It will drive sales and they will hit their numbers.

As for the WM being as or more responsive than the iPhone OSX, I gotta challenge that statement. I don't know if it's due to lack of drivers or slow filesystem access time on our HTC devices, but many operations are pretty slow. Loading up thumbnails of all your pics is pretty slow whether in the HTC Album, Windows Picture Viewer, S2V, etc. Try loading up photos on an iPhone you'll see how fast it is. Going from one pic to the next is quick. zooming and panning is way more fluid then our devices. (Zooming is faster in HTC Album than Picture Viewer, but panning is more smooth in Picture Viewer than HTC Album, but both are crappier than on an iPhone).

This also applies to loading up audio files. If you have over 1000 audio files and try loading them up in HTC Audio Manager or WMP it will take at least 10 seconds before you get a response back.

How about the touch screen bug, I wonder if that's also in the Diamond, but that's ridiculous. You can multi-touch on an iPhone and not have lag. I touch the screen while a video is playing and it stutters. WTH.

Overall, I'm happy with my Cruise and can do way more with it than I could with an iPhone but there's no way our device is as smooth as an iPhone, let alone more.

My 0.02.
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
The $200 dollars works out more expensive over the 24 months, but my guess is Apple are just doing a marketing trick...

Almost every smartphone can be got for free on UK networks, with a lower monthly bill :p (I can get unlimited HSDPA - the UK have that - for less than about $20 a month).

The "touch screen bug" is not something I've ever suffered form...

With WMP, it has this "Library" feature that significantly reduces the time to find music!

Maybe the iPhone can handle images better, but that is about all it can do. You can't send them without e-mail, and you can't take video!
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
I got my Prophet for free on orange... On a £20 a month contract (about $50 dollars when I got it...) and that was very shortly after its release...

16GB s still more than the iPhone has (700MB is taken by the OS...), and with many UK devices free rather than the £269 of the iPhone (2G that is) it was cheaper to get a Kaiser and a huge microSD card, than the iPhone on the same contract...

Okay, so limited, but even two devices will be able to get apps as there are far more WM devs and users than iPhone users and devs...

On UK networks, the iPhone 2G was £35 a month including unlimeted edge... I could get similar spec devices, with unlimited 3G for less than that at the same time as the iPhone was "revolutionising" mobile internet.

The Raphael and X1 are a different level of device. The Diamond is the only device of similar specs, and even that does far more than the iPhone can ever do (even if you can "develop" for the platform).

The thing is that I don't see it as "competition", I see the iPhone as a consumer device which thinks it can be useful in the business context and can be sold like that, where as WM really is useful in the business context, and can be got for less... They are completely different devices with different uses. The iPhone is not a smart phone, and that is why Apples marketing is so incredibly annoying to me.
[Off-topic] Rudegar:
"My point is that for $200 (free in some European networks)"

here the networks are forced when they make comercials to state the collected

price of what one pays as min in the whole being tried down period

it's always more then what an unlocked phone cost even if the price of the phone is 0.1€ which many are

http://www.internettablettalk.com/images/o2iphone.gif

18 * 45£ is still 1576.8 us $ / 1021€ in all which is more then i would use in 18months with my local subscription even if i got a 546£ unlocked iphone
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
The iPhone is just being marketed to make it seem attractive in the hope that consumers are too entranced to notice the fact that apple will still be making the same amount (if not more) from them.
[Off-topic] jellycow:
At least in the US, without a doubt, the new iPhone 3G plan will save me money over the plan that I used to have for Kaiser/8925. Worst case, I'll come out the same. Might be different elsewhere. I do know that it's being offered free in some of the markets.

You are reaching. If you are gonna complain about the iPhone, do it right....I don't think iPhone's lack of expandable memory is that much of a big deal. 8GB/16GB built in for its price is pretty good. For you to say "I can spend another $200 to get where the iPhone is," is disengenuine. You'd never accept that argument the other way. I think Diamond Plus comes with 4GB, but still. It's not like people keep their phones for 4-5 years now anyway. Legitimate complaints of things that can't be fixed with software on the iphone: only 128MB of RAM (UGH!), non-user-replaceable battery (yeah AppleCare can take care of it...but still, lame.), wobbles on the table (at least it bugs me). Software issues that might get taken care of: No MMS??? No video recording. No Copy/Paste (Most consumers won't miss it...I need it). Other issues? Hmmm. New OS. Not enough Apps. Apple lock down. Etc. Lot of things that can be solved in time. Just like all of HTC/Sony/Nokia issues.

Your definition of a "smartphone" is skewed then. I have had the Nokia 9300i, SonyEricsson P900, eTen x500+, along with about 5 different HTC devices. I consider all of them to be a smartphone (PDA phones?) I have family members with the iPhone. Maybe iPhone 1 was just a fancy phone (until it was unlocked), but the new iPhone 3G with Exchange support is definitely a "smartphone" in all aspects of the term comparable to any I've had before. I hope HTC and Sony people don't think like you and they recognize a good threat when they see one...although I did read articles today about how HTC stated that they are not worried. There is definitely enough market for all and more than enough time for companies to adjust and compete. Besides, Nokia is still spanking all of them overall. But it's not where you are that's important, it's which direction you are going. I'd love to see what Nokia, HTC, Sony et al will counter with.
[Off-topic] hambola:
Compared to what we have in the US market, a $200 iPhone is a great deal. Check out this link, prices it against the Kaiser for 2 year plans, iPhone ends up being cheaper.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/t...paring-the-iphone-s-quot-true-quot-price.aspx

http://gizmodo.com/5015540/iphone-3gs-true-price-compared

This is added to the fact that I bought my Cruise unlocked which was a helluva a lot more than the prices being quoted for the subsidized costs. So yeah $200 is a good price point for what you're getting.

When you say you've never suffered from it, does that mean you know about it, it just doesn't affect you or you're not even aware of it. Well if it's the former, then it does affect others, and that bug can limit certain types of software. If it's the latter then I can describe the actual problem.

The library feature is good, except for the fact that it's static. Try selecting Update Library and watch that progress bar go. It's been doing it for at least 10 minutes now.

Can't argue about it not taking video or not sending it out except Email. Sad that you can't send by BT or MMS. It's lame I agree. And if you email a photo to it, it couldn't save it from the email. But from what I recall from the keynote, the new firmware will allow you to save images attached in emails. about freakin time.

Ultimately I don't wanna get into this is better than that type discussion. Everyone's entitled to his own opinion and rarely does anyone change theirs through these types of discussions.
[Off-topic] Rudegar:
"The iPhone is not a smart phone, and that is why Apples marketing is so incredibly annoying to me."

i think it's a smartphone alright

and they are markting it as it is the

best thing since sliced bread and why

wouldn't they ?

this and any other business is about making money

to shareholders not to seem the just and freedom figthing

free stuff for the people provider

it whats makes the world go round ;)
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
What does the iPhone do that could classify it as a smart phone? My ancient nokia can do the same things (and take video :p) in a less fluid way, but it's never been classed as a "Smartphone"

The whole iPhone concept is not be cutting edge (MMS, video etc could easily have been implemented) but to make people buy the next step up and make as much money as possible.
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
The Kaiser and iPhone are of different levels of product.

The Kaiser is clearly a business device, and I see very few purely "Consumer" (media based usage e.g. music, videos etc) users. The iPhone is not a business device. It can use exchange servers, but can't do anything with word documents and things like that... Compare the iPhone to consumer devices and you will find it is a lot more expensive...
[Off-topic] Rudegar:
"What does the iPhone do that could classify it as a smart phone?"

well smartphone is a generous term

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

so your ancient nokia could very well be seen as a smartphone too :)
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
I don't think so! :D (My nokia being a smartphone that is...)

IMHO, the iPhone is not a smartphone (That better?)
[Off-topic] jellycow:
Just out of curiosity, what's your definition of a smartphone?

You keep on saying 8925 is a business-class device and iPhone isn't. So, out of the box, from the carriers...what can my Kaiser/8925/Diamond/X1 do that iPhone 3G wouldn't be able to do in terms of business/smarthphone functionality? I'm not talking about quality of functionality...just about the activities themselves. iPhone 3G Exchange sync. It can read Word/Excel docs (it can't edit though). It has full Unicode support for input and output of various Unicode languages. It supports 3d party apps. Better yet, what if iPhone 3G allows Exchange sync push email over wifi??? (man...the fact that WinMo devices can't do this makes me mad...) What's iPhone 3G missing that it's not a smartphone/business phone?
[Off-topic] l3v5y:
Can't edit word documents.

Has limited functionality.

Can't edit documents at all.

Third party support is limited (apps can only be got through the iPhone based installer, and need to be signed by Apple)

I have my Prophet hooked up right now via WiFi and it seems to be getting emails before Outlook (both are hooked up to the same exchange server)

Also, the apps already on the iPhone are far more consumer orientated. How many of them are actually useful business wise?
[Off-topic] mariner_heart:
The main target buyers for Iphone are the people who are blown over by free-flowing user interface.

the iphone doesn't even seem to be attractive to me.
[Off-topic] jellycow:
My Cingular 3125 / HTC Star Trek couldn't edit Word docs. In fact, it really couldn't edit any docs. I think that phone is considered a smartphone. I loaded WinMo 6.1. It can do everything my 8925 can do now except edit docs (it's also missing a touch screen and a GPS). So I guess you don't consider StarTrek a smartphone? Or is it still because it's on the list of your approved OS's?

Bottom line is, each to his own. I doubt I'll be switching to the iPhone 3G simply because I don't see the need. Maybe when all the initial adopters work the bugs out, I might jump because I find it that it does everything my 8925 does.

But I don't have any subjective animosity toward any. Whatever makes my life easier, I'll take it. Phone is just a tool. What do you gain from being loyal to MS platform? Or any as a matter of fact? You find what you need. No point in hating iPhone simply because it's popular. It's like people hating Nokia and saying stuff like, "Nokia acts like they own the smartphone market, but that's simply because they classify lot of their classic handset as a smartphone." Whatever. Nokia makes great phones. Definitely not what I need, but it's great for lot of people. Same with the iPhone....especially with the droves of developers that they are attracting, it's should be interesting to keep an eye on them.
[Off-topic] mtkates:
I plan to stick with my Vogue until I can see what the raphael looks/feels like.
[Off-topic] nicofars:
"

i'll miss the full keyboard for sure. but i won't miss the instability for sure... "

agreed 100% for the instability !

I movedaway from PC a year ago, and it allows me NOT to be too geek when back at home and fix Windows, now I am looking to do the same with my PDA-phone, I just want one that works, yes I want to install additional apps from time to time, and it now seems that iPhone 2.0 will provided me with that.. except that it will be stable. (finger crossed) and cheaper
[Off-topic] Rudegar:
yeah i think i like/hate wm because it's like a pc

i use many of the same programs in wm versions as i do on pc

it's geek for sure

but i think i would miss it if i moved to an iphone as i dont think it got a reg to edit :P