yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] tembares:
Please, explain better about which version you mean. I think for you 'a working version', but maybe not for me. That is why I want bring any structure in this thread.

About the system.img: I guess you mean 23-1 ZIP-file? Before that we have the 21-01-09 version from DZO. I use that one and that is the only one with a working data connection for me.

The 23-1 ZIP gave me a roaming problem, which was solved in the latest system.img by the system.img by okibi (post 2579).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Organization

Ok, I agree with the need to organize all the z-images etc etc etc. I have offered to host any and files that are put out, but we need a central place to refer to that stays updated. What I would like to see is that anytime a change is made that fixes a problem, it is applied to the current working files instead of someone just posting one file and saying use it with the other files uploaded on ### by such an such person, way too much confusion going on.

I propose that any changes go through one person in charge of keeping them organized and in one set of files, and on a weekly basis, putting a copy of all the changed files into a dated zip, available for non-devs to download and test.

I do know there is the git somewhere around, I haven't followed that because I am not much of a dev when it comes to phone stuff. Is there any way we can keep that synchronized with my (or another) web server so everyone stays on the same page?

I believe a bit of organization would not only minimize confusion to users reading this thread,(reducing bloat and "how do I"...) but would also streamline the development process. (If I fix something by changing the z-image, but it overwrites someone else's change, what's the point?)

I'm not trying to say all the files should be on *my* server, or do it all *my* way, I just want to see some agreement so everyone knows where the latest files are and has the same files to work and develop on.

So, what do you say devs? Is there someone that's on enough to get this taken care of? I would think someone like shadowline or poly, suggestions?

The link in my signature currently has the zip uploaded by shadowline as well as the Feb 1st file okibi posted, I don't know if this is going to be an official one or not, but they're there.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
OK, seems I am a bit lost now :) I was waiting all the time patientely to have working version of Android, but it seems there is a bunch of versions each covering other part of the functionality, but none of theme complete... Am I right?

I tried both 23-1 and 1-2 versions, but none of them sees my carier signal and I really dunno what to do to make it work.

Both of them are rotating wrong way and does not turn back.

But.. I am quite experienced with linux, so my question is, is there possibility to connect to the device to track the behaviour? Or see some status, logs and other things directly in the device using terminal application in Dev Tools?

What should I do to get connected to GSM (do not care about data at that stage, but no calls means no fun)

Anyone to get me quickly on the way, so I would be able to help on the work too?

EDIT: If you want I can try to set up SVN or other system to track the development, that would be the least thing to support the development of something I would really LOVE having running ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Yes, not as much versions as the system.img or the data.img and various files being changed by different people, overlapping, etc. It would be best if we did have new and updated versions of all the files.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] shadowline:
@ tembares, The 1-23 zip was default configured with working AT&T APN and default.txt settings. Other than that, I did not expect it to work outside of that. It was made using the one posted that did not have SMS, but had working internet, setting the APN and settings, then deleting and updating the system.img with the one with working SMS. Which somehow caused it to work because of the older data.img from the first system.img file at least for AT&T.

I do agree that this needs more organization, by including dates/creators in all the filenames, and having the more 'official/organized' one built and posted by DZO or such as he has been pretty good with putting it all together and making it work right and play nice with the rest of the updates.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Yes, I do think DZO could be a good idea, but the only thought is that I don't know about the availability to do something like that.

DZO, you have done some great work and put a lot of stuff together, but in my mind, it seems like you're occupied with developing/work/school/whatever you do. (Keeping in mind that everyone here is donating time/effort) Do you think it would be beneficial to the overall development process for people to come to you every time they fixed something and ask you to put their file/update in with the rest? If so, stitching together fixes would probably end up taking more time keeping organized than actually doing development yourself. Would you be best at that, or would it be best to have someone who is more of a project manager than programmer?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
OK, except my offer to setup the SVN...

can anyone kick my head a bit? How the hell WinMo gets automatically settings for the operator? From SIM card? why it is so tricky to get it working on Android? Why anyone needs to set up the default.txt on his own? That would make SVN tracking useless for that file...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dperren:
Someone needs to be delegated project manager.

Anyone writing code needs to be taken to a separate and private website to discuss it, to stop anything useful being lost in the hundreds of repetitive and stupid questions in the two separate threads discussing the same thing on here.

The devlopers need to be using the same source control tree, be working on well-defined areas, and be only committing working code.

The project manager needs to handle public communication, including releasing versioned and working builds every so often. Probably whenever a significant new feature is added.

I am willing to handle this, but obviously only with the support of the developers.

As I've said numerous times, I don't see the current direction being effective in the long run, however hard the people writing the code for this continue to work. This is not a criticism of anyone, it's the reality of the situation.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Yea, svn could be another option, but there still would need to be someone managing that. I think a manager is more of the question overall than the tech required to make it happen.

There's two types of settings you're looking at. One is the SIM card telling the phone which towers to hook to, where to get your mobile number from, etc. The other is the data connection information. This is normally saved in a file somewhere and tells the phone what connection strings to use when trying to get any data connection. A lot of the WM6 roms will tell you they are setting up your network settings for [AT&T US] or whoever your carrier is. My guess is that it looks at the type of tower you are connected to and then uses pre-set values saved into the ROM already, however it may just be requesting them from the carrier, though if that is the case, more phones should do it automatically.

In short, your phone needs to be told where to look for a data server, and with all the different carriers, no one file will take care of that all.

On that note, I wonder if there would be a way to pull the connection parameters out to a separate file, and provide a different connection file for each carrier that could be included with the source.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Awesome. I'll support anyone who is around enough to get changes taken care of on a timely basis (at least once a day?) and the communication out to the public so people know what's going on.

I'm offering my time and effort to whoever this project manager ends up being, I don't think I would qualify as a manager myself, but am willing to assist anyone doing so.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
Well part of that can be also some website with CMS like joomla with set up rights to do this or that and/or phorums...

I am not Mobile Guru, but I would guess that is based on some silly thing in SIM that tells the device what to look for. But we would need somebody to give us some more tech info on that.

I am quite new to Android, cause I was waiting for at last something running, but I am really in for that one. I have also some experience as the developer, but also as the Project Manager. So if you want, I can try to make me as usefull as I can, just tell me what to do and where to start ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dperren:
You can't run a sucessfull project and be formally updating people daily (be it a written message or a new build) - it's a big waste of time. I know that this is a very exciting project, but as this thread perfectly demonstrates, too much information leads to lots of tiny and seemingly insiginficant updates, and more trouble than the increased openness is worth.

I would expect the 'project manager' (be it me, or someone else) to handling external communication probably weeklyish? Look at other sucessfull open-source projects that are well manged (phpBB comes to mind here) - the developers spend their time writing code. Anyone with the knowledge can inspect what they're up to through commit logs, and those without wait until the team decide to release somthing. It is admittedly frustrating, but the project *works* because of it.

EDIT - Just realised the phpBB website is down at the moment... Bad choice there :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] KeizerBAAS:
Ok, follow this IRC channel irc://freenode/htc-linux for development, it really helps just to follow what is being discussed, in order to get a clear picture of the workings of development. Also read back in the logs at http://irclog.iclem.net/?chan=htc-linux

Anyone with good linux knowledge can ask reasonably intelligent questions there, if you want to know what system.img to use, please don´t do it there, just ask here, or better: read here and try it all out.

Further to your questions: It might also help to read the first post of this thread, it explains that android is the environment running on a linux kernel that communicates with the Kaiser hardware. WinMo already has built in communication capabilities with all sorts of hardware, as our linux kernel is still in development, from scratch more or less... A lot can be reverse enginered, but a lot really has to be developed.

You might have noticed that Android is able to set the MCC and MNC in the APN on itself, based on the network provider, and that in WinMo after flashing a new rom your provider sends you settings via SMS automatically (probably after a request initiated by winmo)... All of this I say in order for all the readers to help understand that nothing goes on its own, it has to be developed in some way...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dzo:
Hi,

I left my phone on overnight for about 16 hours and the battery dropped to about 70% so it looks like the power collapse is working. It seems to wake up fairly often, I'll see what I can do about that.

For people complaining about android userspace not working, e.g. data connection, upside down screen etc.. I'm only working on the kernel (zImage); I could build an android userspace but my time is probably better spent getting the kernel working.

I've put a zip with the system.img I've been using here:

http://cs-alb-pc3.massey.ac.nz/vogue/android-k.zip

This still has the upside down screen and off centre boot logo and is just the f00bar cupcake image with an updated ril. Data may or may not work, I haven't tried.

Once the phone is actually usable full time (working power management, battery and charging), then I'll try to put together a zip with a working userspace.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
OK, my question was bit different. How the mobile automatically knows what network to connect, while in Android it just says, that there was an error and no carier network is available...

Anyway... it would take me about 30 minutes to setup subdomain with fully working CMS and propably 1 more hour to put there also SVN. So if you want me to do so, I can start immedietely...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Ok, perhaps bad time frame then, I meant more just a manager or assistant posting ever day or so saying "wifi working, screen rotation fixed, etc....available upon next release" or something like that.

If the commits are documented well enough, perhaps that is something that I could help with; telling the forum what's going on, what to expect, etc. If I understand correctly, each commit should have a note about what it's for, correct? I haven't worked with much source control enough to be checking in/committing stuff myself, but I can figure enough out to learn what's happening. (if I got around to looking at the git, or whatever we happen to have)

Would anyone care to have me help as a liason? Communicate development progress, answer questions, and take down bugs into a list so devs can keep on dev and look at one list of bugs to track down instead of having to browse through the forum looking for something to fix. How does that sound?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
That's what I meant earlier, busy on dev, not enough time to read through the forum and read everything that's going on. Project manager? mmm.....Developer, yes.

Good to know, keep that available and once we have someone sorted out as assigned project manager, they can decide if that's the way they want to go. Thanks for volunteering that.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
OK, anyway, the subdomain android.ace-com.cz is up and running clean Joomla :) So anyone interested to help me turning it into the base for our informations, how-tos, news etc is kindly accepted to sign in (preferably with the same nick as here :D ) :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] bally3:
I do not understand why there seems to be such a problem with the management of this project on this forum.

Firstly, someone already set up a website and it failed to gain interest as did a user set up another thread to move the development to a cleaner thread which was also ignored.

Currently there are a handful of developers both here and in the Polaris and Nike forums. It would be easier to get the actual DEVELOPERS to decide what they want to do to liaise with each other.

You will find that attempts to move the project to another site will fail or ultimately cause the project to fail.. Project management on these forums seem to fail primarily because the developers who are involved either want project control and acknowledgement or they dont care for management/meetings/reporting etc and prefer to develop ad hoc and report as they do as they have busy lives so lose interest when they are asked to treat this like a job and rules are introduced - this is after all an unpaid hobby/interest.

It would be a shame to see this project go to the wall because of the petty squabbling that are caused by attempts of project control. Better to either use the stickied thread for development use (or create a new one) and this one for testng and reporting as we are doing in the Polaris forum and seems to work very well for us.

just my two cents - no offense intended. :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] Diznario:
What about this code.google project page?

http://code.google.com/p/android-kaiser/

Somebody set this up a while ago, but it doesn't appear that anyone is using it yet.

This might be the right place for this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] silasrye:
Take your space and time

I agree that weekly updates is really all thats needed. I haven't updated in a while because its still a mess and not doing everything it needs to to be a daily os anyways.

I would be happy to take the builds on a more substantial-fully combined basis, even if it came only every couple weeks.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
I totally agree on that one...

What I am only trying to do is to provide some support, help to clean up the info that is here, cause I must say that for me it was in 80% unuseful mess in those almost 300 hundred of pages post... after taking out the useful info it would change into set of at most 10 interesting atricles, how-tos or whatever else..

It would also provide tools for version and bugtracking and some planning and management...

I would guess that it is not an attempt to move out from this forum, but just to have some backgroud for people really interested in making it work...

And those was mine 2 cents ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] biscuits1978:
Back to, what I believe, the original intent of this thread was, why can't we just have our updates centralized around the test releases that the developers put out?

I think the biggest frustration is the fact that the test releases are submitted by the developers, but they're scattered all over this thread. We could just have the developers submit their test release, and someone can centralize it and post what intended differences were applied to the updated test release.

I understand the developers have been doing great with them just going at their own pace without supervison, but for them to get feedback efficiently I think we need to have everyone that tests their releases to know what they are testing.

My two cents as well. :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
OK, I am silent now.. what I was trying to do is already done ;) Someone just have to advertise it a bit ;)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Two cents is better than no cents... :-D

I wasn't trying to suggest a new web site, because I had seen that, as well as other attempts at organization/offers for hosting etc. I'm just saying that the way things are going right now, devs do whatever they do, but data doesn't seems to be flowing between them (that the general public knows of) and things are done, re-done, and un-done with other changes. I'm just suggesting a manager that at least knows who's putting what where, and helps to make sure the other devs have access to the latest changes, and helps make sure the same problem doesn't get 'fixed' three times, only to be lost when someone makes a more important change that overwrites that file...things like that. As to the management of this forum, is there? I've read through every single post (since there were 5 pages) and have seen a lot of thoughts and ideas go through, and know that if I was working as a dev, I would definitely not have time to read through everything and address questions, comments, or requests. I'm just saying that a little organization or communication could help everyone out in the long run. Agreed, telling any devs, do it this way or else, isn't the right approach, but if they can be helped and kept up to date on everything, and at the same time educate the general public, then it seems like a worthwhile thing to do.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
Well I would say, that the problem is in fact in just simple thing. People starting this thread are too busy with development. Normally I would look in first 5 posts looking for any update rather then reading 300 pages and looking for pieces of puzzle to collect and put together...

Someone should just take care of that and make the info and resources centralised in one place, be it first post here, sourceforge, googlge source or another domain...

Just have it clean and handy..
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] aximilation:
Yea, that's what I was getting at, 300ish pages of scattered things with nobody knowing what's where, which to download, etc. (how to get feedback anyways?)

BTW, I uploaded a copy of DZO's latest file up on my server in my sig.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
Yea, for me it was a hard thing to get in after having to read 300 pages... and anyway I am still lost a bit cause I do not know how to make at last calls working :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] tembares:
Back to basic, part II

@ dperren: Well, maybe it was the way you bring this subject into the forum, but I never saw so much volunteers to be project manager :D

@ All: So, to be the one who brought this subject up AGAIN, please do not fight who must be the new project manager.

I think you all are losing something else out of sight: testing.

It is not only about sorting files. When we test a new file for our developers (and us, ofcourse :p), we have to know we all test with the same versions. Else we get all questions again that this is working with A but not with B and we have multi discussions about that, again. With the Kaiser and Tilt, GSM and CDMA we have this already and makes it a little more complex.

Besides sorting files and streamlining tests, the 'manager' also needs to hold sessions with our developers where they are working on. When more than one developer is working on the same subject, time is wasted.

Also a finished part that can be published needs to be streamlined into a next published version.

I am thinking to manage this 'project' myself. After my own IT-business I am working now as Senior Consultant in the Track & Trace industry.

I would ask to all thread members to vote, but I think this will be very difficult. Because of that I ask who agrees or disagrees I will manage this 'project'.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] a.s.j:
Nice... now we are getting some serious point ;) Anyway, IMHO it does not really matter who will be the project manager (including me we have now 3 options and I guess some more will come) but when we can start doing it bit better way, cause this way it is really waste of our resources (or at last of devs hard work)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] tembares:
@bally3: Thanks for the feedback. I agree what you wrote. Let the developers decide what they want to do.

The problem is more in the forum itself. There are a lot of files floating and nobody knows anymore what file he needs. A lot of questons could be eliminated when there was some streamlining.

And I agree that another site or thread does not help doing this. From my point of view the developer is leading, not the 'manager'. On the other hand it would be helpful to the thread members to know what file they need to run Android. The last two weeks we had several system.img files which helps some people, but, for example DZO, still uses his file. For me, he is leading and I will use his files.

It was not my intention to lead the project (that's why I wrote 'project' in my previous post) but I want to streamline this thread.

C'est tout, and I am not French :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] okibi:
I'll post back later tonight with the information on the latest 3 packages. They are as follows:

1-23

1-28

2-1

Also, I will post a 2-3 to my server when I get home. It has all the latest patches all working.

Again, files are at http://www.slackthebox.com/android/

Also, I'd like to be the Project Manager and create releases (and develop) if you'd like.