yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] milas:
This seems to be a common point of confusion (what with people constantly clamoring for a native bootloader), but Android does NOT run inside WinMo. Haret is essentially a bootloader which runs within Windows Mobile, but it reboots the device INTO Android. This is why you cannot "quit" Android into WinMo. A native bootloader is not very useful at this point; we can already boot Android in a way that is actually much easier/efficient for testing, and it is not in a state where you would want to flash it to your device.

But to answer your question, yes, once Android 1.0 is booting and has reached reasonable stability, work will begin on creating a native bootloader. Currently, not much (if anything) has been done on this front (at least publicly).

We already have direct access to all of the hardware (in fact, WinMo simplifies this process somewhat by initializing a lot of devices already). I believe the gfx acceleration is already present based on samples like the glCube and spinning earth.

On an unrelated note, I'd recommend drop.io for sharing files. It has a 100mb per drop limit, so it's good for sharing files that are too big for the forum. There are also no captchas or timers or limits.

EDIT: Would people want a dedicated Wiki where we could share info/host an FAQ/instructions/etc.? That could simplify the "first post" updating problem, as anyone could make changes instead of relying on one person.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] SharpieMarker:
Thank you for clarifying that for me. I'm eagerly awaiting the progress here and am very excited by the prospect of Android on my phone.

That would be beautiful.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] shadowline:
+1 to that. With a forum for Android here on XDA aswell I think.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] slovoflud:
that'd help alot!

we have to start it as soon as possible, while there is not that much information nad then just update and add...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] xmoo:
Aight, see you on msn :D
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] cijoml:
I tried df -k and /boot filesystem was just part of / - seems to me, that they used whole flash and than use quota to get rid of kernel stop during full fs (they shared info, that there are 2 kind of protection - android inside and kernel quota)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] piethein:
I post a copy of the (kernel)config file from the emulator on my website:

www.strengholt-online.nl/android/config.gz

I'll update the vmware image soon!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] echofloripa:
just out of curiosity, why to gz a 22 k file? :)

Also, should it be left on the root of the local repository?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] DJ_Steve:
that config.gz would be mostly useless to us as it will just fail to boot a kernel compiled with it (ive just tried it on the kernel code we have for kaiser) on a offtopic note though, compiling the kernel to boot a OMAP powered device should be fairly easy as the linux kernel supports omap cpus already (CONFIG_ARCH_OMAP)

EDIT: the config.gz is probably just copied directly from the emulator where it likely is compressed
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] piethein:
Something else:

It seems that the dev's from HTC uploaded the build files in order to build a correct kernel for the HTC G1. Since the HTC G1 and Kaiser are very much like maybe we can use this piece of information?

http://git.source.android.com/?p=pl...9;hb=a35b8c504606c5d7261c4c5c08c4b5ff78cb6a86

1
2 ---- build configuration ----
3
4 You can configure to build for HTC Dream (aka T-Mobile G1) by putting
5 the following in your buildspec.mk file at the root of the source tree:
6
7 TARGET_PRODUCT := htc_dream
8
9 If you wish to override the included prebuilt kernel image, add:
10
11 TARGET_PREBUILD_KERNEL := /path/to/kernel/arch/arm/boot/zImage
12
13 ---- proprietary files ----
14
15 The HTC Dream device includes a small number of proprietary binary
16 files that are necessary for Android to work correctly on it.
17
18 They can be obtained from your Dream device by running the
19 extract-files.sh script in this directory. It will create the
20 proprietary subdirectory, and use adb (which will need to be in
21 your path) to copy the files from your device. You will need to
22 enable USB Debugging (under Settings/Applications/Development)
23 for this to work.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] DJ_Steve:
that looks interesting, im wonderingif anyone knows the specs on the g1 though (cpu/ram/rom etc or has that not been released yet
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] ducamie:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1495
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] DJ_Steve:
cheers, ok thats interesting, its the same cpu series as the kaiser so surely (unless im totally mistaken here) we could if we had someone able to rip the entire os from a g1 modify it fairly easily to work on kairser - anyone got a g1 willing to get use a copy of the code, or better still i could use a zip/tar/tzr.bz2 copy of the android git repo. my laptop that im using to compile runs linpus (fc8 based) linux so the newer git version android source site needs will not run,

if a upload location for this is needed let me know and ill sort ftp
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] echofloripa:
Here you see a side by side comparison of g1 and kaiser:

http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1495&id2=791
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dcordes:
ha! 1500th post. you know what that means? you gotta buy a drink for all of the posters.

guys I know this is offtopic but I fried my kaiser. it is stuck in spl. http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=2829551 can somebody take a look?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] milas:
All right, I set up the domain/wiki at www.androidonhtc.com

I haven't put anything in the Wiki yet, I have to write a paper right now. I'll start working on it later, but anyone else can feel free to start adding stuff now. I haven't installed any plugins to the default DokuWiki install, I'll get to that later.

I also made it so that you must register to be able to edit just to keep spammers out.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] soulbandaid:
Porting android outside of XDA

It occurred to me that this thread cannot be the only place on the internet trying to port android, and that the people with technical knowledge about the porting process might be able to benefit from the experience of other people who might not be on this forum. This is my attempt to round up a set of links to other people on the internet trying to do things similar to what this thread is attempting.

DISCLAIMER: I have little to no technical knowledge about porting android and some or all of these links may be irrelevant due to my lack of understanding about the specific of what exactly you guys are doing.

this is someone who ported it to a device I've never heard of with some sort of arm processor. They got the networking running!

http://nemustech.blogspot.com/2007/12/android-porting-to-real-target-hw.html

This google group is full of information about porting android that i can't understand

http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting/topics

here is a wiki which is light on information and heavy on links

http://www.android-internals.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

This wiki is full of technical information but i think its got some overlap with the first link

http://wiki.kldp.org/wiki.php/AndroidPortingOnRealTarget

This person seems to be at about the same place as the m5 version of android, but maybe he or she has learned something that is not on this forum

http://euedge.com/blog/2007/12/06/google-android-runs-on-sharp-zaurus-sl-c760/

Good luck guys. I hope I've helped. Thank you so much for all of your work.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] slovoflud:
lol :D

no probs! just send me your bank accounts, names, pins, confirmation numbers, so i can send you all loads of money for drinks :)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dcordes:
since I totally went capitalism, you can put it all on my paypal for now.

got my kaiser fixed show can go on.

btw, did somebody complete an image build with the android buildsystem? I followed these instructions here and ran into some nasty errors with the current source revision.

My aim is to make a tiny image which we can boot from the ramdisk (just like android.bin) .
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] echofloripa:
Hi

I am building now.

Created a new ubuntu vm inside vmware, mapped the cd rom to this image:

http://ubuntu.mirrors.proxad.net/hardy/ubuntu-8.04.1-desktop-i386.iso

Then run the following script:

Then add ~/bin to your PATH.

Add the toolchain and unpack it inside myDroid, but I didn't got to that bit yet. And it seems this slow vmware with ubuntu will take all night to compile :)

I got it from here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2810731&postcount=1277

Just made that a script.

I thought there was some especial configuration we had to use... But someone some hundred posts ago said it was usable...
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] LvDisturbed1:
Hope you guys wont get mad for me asking this, but is any dev interested in doing the exact opposite of this? Porting Windows Mobile to the Dream?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] T0mmyL33:
Compiling Kernel

Saw this in the Dream forum. Can this help? We will still need the proprietary files from the G1.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] tyeo098:
You got the source?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] SharpieMarker:
How similar is the Android build you all are working on porting to the one on the G1?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] LvDisturbed1:
I'm not quite sure what you are asking. I'm not a developer myself, and was merely wondering if there was interest in such a project. If we could get WM on the dream, many people including myself could have a 3G compatible WM device for use with T-Mobile.

I do know that there is a way to access the bootloader on the G1's, but only in serial mode. Hopefully someone could find a way to enable the USB mode so that flashing ROMs is a viable option. Then there is the problem of making a WM ROM that will be compatible with the device. I'm not sure how difficult that particular process may be. Would it be as simple as compiling a ROM with the necessary drivers for the hardware of the DREAM? And do all said drivers actually exist currently for WM? Can a developer shed some light on this subject?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] SharpieMarker:
How about I just trade you my Kaiser for your G1. On second thought, I actually like the option to have Android or WM.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] LvDisturbed1:
Sorry, not possible. I haven't bought a G1 yet, and probably won't unless someone can get WM ported. That, and I already have a Kaiser. Anyway, even if I had a G1, I still wouldn't make the trade. The current Kaisers aren't AWS compatible...which means no 3G for T-Mobile.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] SharpieMarker:
Unfortunately the same goes for the G1 for Att. Crappy proprietary 3g.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] milas:
http://drop.io/kaisdroid

I didn't do any patching of the Android sources, just followed the instructions to the T on the Android Source page. Let me know if there's something else you need.

Also, I will try and get the wiki filled out soon, I'm just swamped with schoolwork right now.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] corvus:
And you yet 2 yaffs2 images :S.

Here is the system and data folders in a img file (ext2 fs) to use with any kernel. I make it etx2 to preserve links and permissions and to skip the problems with codepages from the vogue version.

Also attach vogue initrd because its almost identical if we make a Kaiser one. There is only a vogue reference in 3 lines of init.rc. Dont remember if i commented them, so chek it.

http://drop.io/ssaa5tp
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] xmoo:
dc, mail me!

jfl[dot]xmoo[at]gmail[dot]com
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] KMur:
Android roadmap for newbies...

Hi folks,

I used to start some Ubuntu using some time ago and stoped BECAUSE of starting using PPCs. I tried to find out some linux version (for Trinity) at the time and find nothing workable (or did not dig enough...:o)

Sorry guys, I did not have the patience to go through all the 15X pages :eek: of this thread so I will place some direct questions:

1 - That files linked on the first post, are they 'demo', just 'boot' or what? What do I actually need to do to get Android on the Kaiser? (e.g. download the kernel image (3xx MB), compile/cross-compile, etc; *or* those files on the above link ('kaisdroid', *.img?)

2- Somewhere around linux-htc threads I saw some reference to formating part of the SD card with ext2 (or something) is it necessary to for placing the images to flash? On the subject, is there any image to flash anyway (even on fat32)?:confused:

3 - What about those zImage files?

zImage-2.6.25-pm(.bin I suppose)

zImage-kaiser-new.bin

and

zImage.bin

What should I do with the second one? rename it after zImage an replace it?

Just using Haret seems not to be enough... I could do nothing and it started blinking colors (I had to soft reset after a while...)

I did already apt-get git as stated on the wiki. (Sorry, I'm still having connection problems so I was not able to get the kernel, android-msm and other core files...)

When I do, I would still be a little lost on what to do with them and how to flash...

4 - And this gets me to the last question: All this cross-compiling stuff is to build the actual kernel and flash-able ROM or just to get the zImage file (already downloaded???) :confused:

Some help for a newbie?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] djmaddogfreal:
Wait, so you're saying even if we get a working Android ROM working on the Kaiser we can't use 3g on the AT&T network?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] tuannam:
Is there any way to cross compile the Rom in Mac or I have to install Ubuntu in VMware?
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] gthing:
No. T-Mobile and AT&T use different 3g networks, so you won't be able to get 3g from a G1 to work on AT&T, and you won't be able to get 3G on your Kaiser to work on T-Mobile.

However, if you get android running on your kaiser, so long as the drivers are there for the radio and you are on AT&T's network, the 3g will work fine.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] :
Here's a question to ponder. If the MSM7201A chipset is capable if American 3G frequencies, a chipset that will be in some future AT&T phones, then why not G1 on AT&T 3G?

I've flashed lots of radio's on to my Kaiser. Maybe the only real issue, is how do you get an AT&T capable 3G radio flashed on to a G1. I see no reason why they would intentionally cripple the capabilities of the chip set, it wouldn't make any sense if it's going to power a large variety of devices operating on various bands across the world.

Some devices come to mind, like the Sony Xperia, and the Touch HD, that if I'm not mistaken use the same chip set that's in the G1.

-James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dcordes:
I just pushed the kernel code for raphael and diamond to a new branch at linuxtogo.org. check it out

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=2836085&postcount=546
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] milas:
The files you need are available at dcordes' site linked in the first post (http://linuxtogo.org/~lgorris/kaiser-bootkit/). For more info, see the Wiki: http://www.androidonhtc.com/installing_android

A. You don't need to format anything, it will work the way it is

B. There is currently no flashing involved, HaRET reboots the system into Android. Think of it like a Live CD of a Linux distribution. No changes are made to your phone.

You only need zImage-kaiser-new.bin. zImage are the monolithic kernel files, so you only need one. You will have to either rename zImage-kaiser-new.bin to zImage.bin or alter default.txt to say zImage-kaiser-new.bin so that they match.

Sometimes it doesn't work. Also, it sounds like you might not have had all the appropriate files. Make sure you have haret.exe, zImage.bin, android.bin, and default.txt all in the same directory. See the wiki page linked above for more info.

You do not need to do this! Git will only help you download the Android/htc-msm sources. This is not necessary, as compiled images of both have been helpfully provided.

Just to reiterate since a lot of people seem to be confused on this topic, there is NO flashing involved.

To answer your question, yes, all of that would just produce a zImage file. And like you said, you already downloaded this, so it's not necessary to compile it all again (especially since most of the posted zImages have custom changes to their configurations).
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] SharpieMarker:
No, I was saying that the G1 uses the proprietary t-mobile 3g band so that if you purchased a G1 unlocked or were able to unlock it for use on AT&T that you wouldn't be able to use 3g.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] SharpieMarker:
Boom headshot. Great answer and an interesting thought.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] dcordes:
"Some devices come to mind, like the Sony Xperia, and the Touch HD"

somebody already looks in porting the raphael / diamond linux kernel code to the xperia. I hope the blackstone (hd) will be rather easy cause it seems very similar to diam/raph
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] uplinked:
AT&T uses the UMTS1900mhz band for its 3G. T-Mobile uses UMTS1700 and UMTS2100mhz.

The G1 has a radio for UMTS1700mhz and 2100mhz, and the Kaiser has a radio for UMTS 1900 and 2100.

The MSM7201A chipset is exactly what it sounds like - a set of chips, in this case a MSM7200 processor, a board to mount it on, and perhaps a few other chips for various functions. I'm fairly sure that those "other chips" don't include the radio, meaning two devices on MSM7201A could have completely different radios.

I'm pretty sure that these are HARDWARE restrictions and cannot be changed by software, so I feel fairly confident in saying that the G1 will never be able to connect to AT&T's network. However, it appears that the Kaiser might work on T-Mobile 3G using the UMTS2100mhz band, though I'm really not an expert on this.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] :
I still don't think it makes economic sense, to a companies like Qualcomm and HTC, to make a difference chip for different sets of frequencies. Different sets of frequencies... that's it. A perfect example is how you can unlock the European wifi channels on a linksys router if you use one of the various linux distro's available for it. Not exactly the same, but economically, it makes sense.

These radios are highly programmable DSP's. While you may be right, I challenge your logic. If HTC makes a million phones (which they do), why on gods (insert deity here) earth would they want to have to change the manufacturing line for a single hardware difference of the radio. It's a tremendous burden.

While I argue the radio itself is universal to some degree, there might be other components like the power amplifier that may indeed to be different for various bands, or all bands. It just doesn't seem likely. The point is they make these phones to operate world wide, and my bet is the fact that T-Mobile simply decided to flash a radio on these that only allows for their own frequencies so as to prevent people from trying to go to AT&T. I'm sure Qualcomm and HTC have no monetary incentive to make different chips for specific frequencies, when a radio flash will provide the necessary limitations or enhancements.

I think someone should just look it up. Maybe I will see what I can find.

-James
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] skola28:
I think you're missing the fact that there are phycically different antennas, and physically different radio 'modules' in the two phones. Which is why they work in their particular frequency ranges. I realize they are very 'close' in relative terms, but close doesn't work with radios.

Want to know what the monetary incentive is for HTC to make different phones for different carriers? B/c then the carriers will buy them! I'm sure HTC would LOVE to make just one phone; but that's not the way of the world. Take CDMA for example; HTC REALLY has to change a lot of internals for CDMA phones to work, and guess what, they make it!
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] spiritofseth:
The MSM chipset package has two parts the core chipset and another chip which provides amplification, connectivity and filtering to the antennas, if you check out qualcomms data sheet you can get more detailed info on this.

http://www.qctconnect.com/products/msm_7201.html#Technical Features

also with Tmobile AWS I believe the downlink band is in the 1700~ mhz range and the uplink band is in the 2100~ mhz range (or vice versa)

this is totally different and in different ranges then the euro bands on the kaiser.

So no your kaiser will never work on Tmob 3g unless there is roaming agreement between the two.

and no your G1 will not work on ATT 3g.

that is my off the top of my head summary, you can of course do your own research into this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Wireless_Services

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-CDMA_(UMTS)
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] uplinked:
No, sir, I challenge your logic :)

You're arguing that manufacturers probably put all the radios in all the phones to simplify their production lines- But have you seen how many of "the same phone" they mass produce under different names with only slightly different chip configurations?

The Kaiser 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, the Hermes 100-140, the Titan, the Dream, Raphael, Wizard, Herald, etc, etc, etc. HTC really only has a few "unique" designs, comparatively. Pick a chipset, give or take a keyboard here and some slight bevelling there, add Windows Mobie and remarket it.

Their entire business model is centered around selling slight variations of the same phone :P

But that's just me challenging your logic.

Skola makes good points about the marketability of so many different product lines, and that radio antennae vary from model to model.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] milas:
Guys, with all due respect, this radio conversation is off-topic in an already chaotic thread. Please take it somewhere else.

Back on topic, are there any questions that people want answered in the FAQ/questions that seem to be popping up a lot? I added a couple last night: http://www.androidonhtc.com/frequently_asked_questions
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] TheSurfer:
It seems that Google just checked in audio support for the MSM7k: http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/hardware/msm7k.git;a=tree;f=libaudio

BTW: I tried patching my kernel with the changes from the new branch dcordes mentioned, but unfortunately this still doesn't fix the DMA issues.
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III Android Development] cijoml:
You are not right. There is G1 available for GSM band 900/800/1900 MHz. It will be available from Jan2009 here in Czech republic.

I hardly belive there is programmable chipset which allow transmit/receive in any band (like atheros chipset do), but physical antenna will be the problem - different band - no signal.