yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] ptn107:
-

My link is for the xt1962-1. Did you get the appropriate xt1962-4 image for

your

device?

XT1962-4_RIVER_RETBR_9.0_PPO29.114-134_cid50_subsidy-DEFAULT_regulatory-DEFAULT_CFC.xml.zip

XT1962-4_RIVER_RETLA_9.0_PPO29.114-134_cid50_subsidy-DEFAULT_regulatory-XT1962-4-SUTEL-DS_CFC.xml.zip

The xt1962-4 has options. You need to know which one is correct for you.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] Mathiusb:
How install?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] ptn107:
fastboot getvar max-sparse-size
fastboot oem fb_mode_set
fastboot flash partition gpt.bin
fastboot flash bootloader bootloader.img
fastboot flash modem NON-HLOS.bin
fastboot flash fsg fsg.mbn
fastboot erase modemst1
fastboot erase modemst2
fastboot flash dsp adspso.bin
fastboot flash dtbo dtbo.img
fastboot flash logo logo.bin
fastboot flash boot boot.img
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.0
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.1
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.2
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.3
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.4
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.5
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.6
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.7
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.8
fastboot flash system system.img_sparsechunk.9
fastboot flash system_b system_b.img_sparsechunk.0
fastboot flash system_b system_b.img_sparsechunk.1
fastboot flash system_b system_b.img_sparsechunk.2
fastboot flash vendor vendor.img_sparsechunk.0
fastboot flash vendor vendor.img_sparsechunk.1
fastboot flash vendor vendor.img_sparsechunk.2
fastboot flash oem oem.img
fastboot flash oem_b oem_other.img
fastboot erase userdata
fastboot erase DDR
fastboot oem fb_mode_clear
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
Unroot first?

I'm fairly new to rooting on the Moto G7 since I've only tinkered with my Asus Zenfone. I'm currently rooted on the G7 running PPOS29.114-16-5-2 and patched with Magisk. Do I need to unroot, ie. go back to stock, then upgrade to PPO29.114-134 then root and patch again?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] ptn107:
You can manually download and flash the new firmware and then patch boot with magisk again. You do not need to go back to stock first.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
adb sideload

I'm trying to adb sideload the zip from recovery and the minute I execute I get adbd status 1 Installation aborted. Also it seems through RSD lite that the zip is corrupted. Anyone else get this issue?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
Filename differences PPO vs PPOS

Does PPO vs PPOS in the filename mean that PPOS can be sideloaded and the other only via OTA or from internal?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
Is this method to install for RIVER_RETAIL_9.0_PPO29.114-134_cid50_subsidy-DEFAULT_regulatory-DEFAULT_CFC.xml.zip or it is for Mathiusb's xt1962-4 version?

---------- Post added at 02:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------

Actually ignore my posts. I just read the flashfile.xml in the zip and it has the same steps. duh!
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] dlfuller:
Fastboot 'waiting for any device'

A new Moto G7 XT-1962 US-Retail running the original ROM, unlocked, rooted, and with TWRP installed. It seems to be working okay but somehow during unlocking and setup, it no longer detects the SIM.

So I thought that flashing the most-recent update might also resolve the SIM problem at the same time. Steps from this forum were followed with a difference that I was using a Mac. The contents of the platform-tools (adb-fastboot) directory were combined with the extracted ROM zip files and the terminal launched from there. Like the Windows technique.

ADB works now and Fastboot had worked before using this same approach for the oem unlocking routine:

$ adb devices
* daemon not running; starting now at tcp:5037
* daemon started successfully
List of devices attached
ZY226JMG38	device

Now Fastboot (from platform-tools_r29.0.4-darwin.zip) returns "waiting…" and hangs:

$ fastboot device
< waiting for any device >
$ fastboot getvar max-sparse-size
< waiting for any device >
$ fastboot oem fb_mode_set
< waiting for any device >

$ sudo fastboot device
Password:
< waiting for any device >

Any suggestions about Fastboot and comments about fixing my undetected SIM appreciated. This flashing routine is a scary undertaking for this dummie.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
[MENTION=4958964]dlfuller[/MENTION] - Is your device booted in bootloader? When you do fastboot devices -l does your device show up?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] dlfuller:
Thanks [MENTION=10081963]eztechio[/MENTION], but the problem turns out to be the fastboot command itself. Only <waiting for device> in the code sample of my post.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

I stumbled across the answer to my main question elsewhere and hope this might be helpful to other Mac users.

In MacOS adb and fastboot commands must be preceded with "./" most of the time. Why the exception where some adb commands work without it I don't know.

$ adb devices
List of devices attached
ZY226JMG38	device

$ ./adb devices
List of devices attached
ZY226JMG38	device

$ ./adb reboot bootloader

$ ./fastboot devices
ZY226JMG38	fastboot

$ ./fastboot getvar max-sparse-size
max-sparse-size: 268435456
finished. total time: 0.000s

With fastboot working now, it's on to this dummie adventuring into the ROM update…
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] dlfuller:
Thanks [MENTION=4487886]ptn107[/MENTION]. Your fastboot steps worked like a charm. I'm now up to date on ROM Build PPOS29.114-134-2

A fresh, clean slate. Just had to install TWRP and Magisk again. My problem before of not detecting the SIM now resolved.

Just wish I could have retained my user apps and data through the upgrade process. Not executing fastboot erase userdata might have been the approach, but I didn't want to chance it.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] HueyT:
I think u have to unzip and flash files through fastboot commands
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
[MENTION=5803877]HueyT[/MENTION] - Yes I had to extract the files and perform each fastboot command in my command prompt terminal. All is good now. I'm actually now on the latest released firmware by doing the same update steps. :)
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] HueyT:
Will it bootloop if I install RETUS on AMZ XT1962-1 phones?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] HueyT:
Here is the flashall.bat that contains above fastboot flash all the files step (just put the unzipped files from firmware download and this flashall.bat file into the same directory as ADB and open command prompt window in that directory, then type "flashall" and it'll run all the steps including rebooting at the end. I Just used it to flash my Amazon variant (RETUS and other variants of XT1962-1 should be the same) successfully without any errors.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] Froggy the Great:
Is there a singe TWRP-flashable zip that does everything for you at once? My G7 is rooted and Majisked and I'm experienced in using TWRP, I've just never used an A/B device before.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] HueyT:
Nope. Even custom roms need lots of prep flashes.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] kenerly:
Can I not run "fastboot erase userdata" so I don't have to restore all my stuff?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] PuchiPapi:
I don't do "fastboot erase userdata" because I don't like redoing everything. I would still recommend doing a full backup using adb just in case something does go wrong and you have to do a "fastboot erase userdata". That way you can restore from your backup.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] HueyT:
Agree :good:

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

Yes, of course.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] kenerly:
Is erase carrier necessary?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] Holyoblation:
Thank you this saved my device.

Only issue I have now is that for some reason Netflix is no longer available for my device. G7 xt1962-1
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] ddjr:
I'm not having luck with this. My phone still tried to start, then bootloops. I had candy Rom on this phone. The opening scene of a gumball machine starts, the gumballs drop down a bit, the starts over
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] ddjr:
[/COLOR]I got it!! I had to unzip the flashall file to get flashall.bat. double clicked it, and a new powershell window opens and installed everything! Thanks to everyone who has posted instructions and helpful tips!!
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] gumpysitruc@gmail.com:
I'm glad you got away from trying to blankflash it. Sorry I didn't read your other thread sooner.
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] ddjr:
All good. I knew you guys would get me out of a jam ?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] mrindependent:
I have the india version..is it possible for me to flash the US version?
[Moto G7 Guides, News, & Discussion] rippyrukkus:
Just wanted to say thanks for providing this thread with info about stock ROM for the Moto G7 river XT1962-1. I had an issue with mobile data not working when upgrading to LOS 21, and had to go back to stock to get data working again before flashing LOS again to have the latest version of Android working on this 2019 phone. Just a heads up - the OP link doesn't work anymore (probably no one downloaded it for quite some time) but original ROMs can be found at this site (not sure if they are truly 100% original, i.e. not tampered with, but it worked for me):

Motorola Stock ROM

Welcome to our website, the one-stop destination for Motorola Stock ROM downloads. Our extensive library of firmware files allows you to easily update, unbrick, or restore your Motorola device to its original firmware.

motostockrom.com
[Xiaomi 6X (Wayne) ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Oth] 夜霜行:
awesome,thank you:good:
[General Questions and Answers] Ch4pl1n:
Hi peolpes

I have a big problem.

(First, sorry for my english)

I installed the TWRP 3.0.2.0, for install a custom rom in my device, but in hour of use the wipe function, i selected for clean the internal storage and the installation of custom rom didn't work. (I know, was the great stupidity)

And now, doesn't enter in recovery mode or download mode.

Can anyone help me with this?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] ROMFACTORY:
.

.

Mod Edit: Thread temporarily closed per OP

[IMG="rrlogo"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrlogo.png[/IMG]

Resurrection Remix P

[SIZE="4"]/*
* Your warranty is now void.
*
* I am not responsible for bricked devices, dead SD cards,
* thermonuclear war, or you getting fired because the alarm app failed. Please
* do some research if you have any concerns about features included in this ROM
* before flashing it! YOU are choosing to make these modifications, and if
* you point the finger at me for messing up your device, I will laugh at you.
*/[/SIZE]

[IMG="rrabout"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrabout.png[/IMG]

Resurrection Remix the ROM has been based on LineageOS, SlimRoms, Omni and original Remix ROM builds, this creates an awesome

combination of performance, customization, power and the most new features, brought directly to your Device.

Many things that in previous versions were tweaked with mods, are now included by default in the ROM so, please enjoy!

Special thanks to the LineageOS team, Omni team, SlimRoms and of course to all the supporters.

​

[IMG="rrinstall"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrinstall.png[/IMG]

Make sure you have a custom recovery installed(TWRP is the preferred recovery)

Download the latest Resurrection Remix Rom & the latest GApps package

Boot into recovery

Perform a FULL factory wipe and wipe/system and dalvik cache as a precaution

Flash ResurrectionRemix Rom

Flash Google Apps package(Optional)

Flash Magisk Root(Optional)

First boot may take up to 10 minutes.

[IMG="rrdownload"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrdownload.png[/IMG]

ROM Download

GApps

[IMG="rrsource"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrsource.png[/IMG]

Resurrection Remix Source

[IMG="rrthanks"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrthanks.png[/IMG]

XDA Developers

LineageOs Team

Omni Team

And Of Course To All The Supporters, Donators And Users

[IMG="rrbugs"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrbugs.png[/IMG]

Major Bug

FP Not Working

If you have a major bug to report that has not been reported already, please take the following steps to report it to us. It will save you, Team Resurrection Remix and me quite some time.

Download the

MatLog

app from the Play Store.

After downloading the MatLog app, go to the app settings, and change the log level to Debug.

Clear all previous logs and take the exact steps to produce the error you are receiving. As soon as you receive the error (probably a force close), go straight into MatLog and stop the log recording.

Copy and paste the entire log either to

Hastebin

or

Pastebin

Save the log, and copy and paste the link into the thread with a brief description of the error.​

[IMG="rrsocial"]https://resurrectionremix.com/assets/rrsocial.png[/IMG]

​

XDA:DevDB Information

OFFICIAL RESURRECTION REMIX, ROM for the Realme 3 Pro

Contributors

ROMFACTORY

Source Code: https://github.com/ResurrectionRemix

ROM OS Version: 9.x Pie

Version Information

Status: Stable

Created 2019-07-20

Last Updated 2019-08-28
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] ROMFACTORY:
Changelog

20-07-2019:-

Initial build

24-07-2019:-

Fixed Face unlock ( trusted face )

Fixed round corners

Added 420 dpi

Updated TCP Buffers

Cleanup unused overlays

Fixed Airtel / Vodafone volte

ResurrectionRemix os source changes
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] ROMFACTORY:
Thanks And Credits To [MENTION=8426240]iamsj7[/MENTION] For The Device Sources.

Ajith [MENTION=5907024]4j17h[/MENTION] Thanks For Testing
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] ROMFACTORY:
Reserved
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] Kei2kei:
First official rom

Big thanks for dev....
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] riley jes:
Big thanks to all Devs for making the great rom for this device
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] medozse7s:
Great work -- love this room and you romfactory I used this rom in my last mob mi max 1 ?

What about fingerprint Bug ?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] Arefoe:
OMG I love this rom so much, thanks for the deelopment for r3p
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] satria.black:
any recommen vendor before installing? a12 or a15 ?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] bobsndroid:
DOWNLOAD LINK Not Working
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] satria.black:
https://get.resurrectionremix.com/?dir=RMX1851
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] bobsndroid:
Thanks a lot.. Its working now ?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] konst1807:
Hi guys,dt2w works?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] Kuttuzzzz:
Is fast charge working.
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] RuhanRahul:
How to get root access ?

Magisk flashing is not working as it says vendor error.

There's no sound in calls.

Can someone solve my issue?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] ROMFACTORY:
Can you please send logs
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] rehanraza:
your vendor image is corrupt. flash vendor file from twrp. donwload it from https://sourceforge.net/projects/rmx1851/files/fastboot_files/

unzip it and copy it to your phone then flash it as vendor partition from twrp.
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] RuhanRahul:
Did what you suggested.

Then magisk gets installed with showing error "Failed to mount '/vendor' (Device or resource busy)" , previously it was showing and magisk was not getting installed but this time it does after your method.

The problems still reamins are VOLTE not working and No Sound in Calls.

Can you please suggest something?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] baba9:
Awesome ?
[Realme 3 Pro ROMs, Kernels, Recoveries, & Other De] Intex12345:
Just go to official website of Resurrection Remix. GO to Download Section and find Rom for RMX1851.

There are plenty of official Roms and builds.

You can locate Rom for your mobile.

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

Thanks for awesome Rom. Had used RR Rom for years on my other phones. Going to install this Rom on my Realme 3 Pro too.

In pie roms, encryption error is generally faced. Phone goes into bootloop or OS gets stuck at startup screen. Kindly suggest steps to avoid this problem.

I faced this problem on LOS Rom. But finally, it was done.

I have unlocked bootloader. Unofficial LOS with Magisk-Canary.
[General Questions and Answers] arcanefoxdemon:
So basically I want to hack a mobile game without getting banned and I'm willing to pay for someone to create a way for me to do that. I don't have knowledge on how these things work and I also don't know if I've come to the right place. Any information someone can provide would be very much appreciated
[General Questions and Answers] mattgyver:
Thread closed. Warez discussions are prohibited.
[General Questions and Answers] bossOnothin:
I'm looking to flash EMUI 9 on my Mate 10 lite and I came across a website that had it. The only problem is that it says that it is made for the regular Mate 10, not the lite version. Would it still work if I flashed it on my phone?

*Title is meant to say "labeled for Mate 10"
[prjkt.io] jwils1236:
Looking for a dark theme for OneNote, preferably AMOLED. I tried the beta with newly integrated dark mode, but not good enough (yet). Only app I can't get AMOLED. Anyone know if any dev has themed?
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] mohankumar807:
Anytime facing this issue, when headphones are connected media volume reduces to zero automatically. When we try yo bring it up, it automatically again goes step by step to zero volume.

DND mode is disabled though.

Please help.

Edit: Issue occurs with headphones which has only one button for controls and we select 'Control volume' option in Additional Settings->Headphones and audio effects->Headphone Remote button

Fix: Use only 'Control Playback' for headphones with one click button.
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] Rakesh7137:
Song/video changes automatically

After setting it to "Control Playback", the song/video changes automatically.
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] Javonski:
Thanks for the tip! It also helped me with my Redmi Note 7 Pro.:)
[HTC Wings] yassar:
Can any one guide me how to enable the arabic enabled for HTC S730?
[HTC Wings] bigflavor:
opp... i found this, but I think it's a ROM; and will not work.

However, who ever built the ROM may be able to deliver a language pack.

Anyway... a language pack from the Vox will work on the Wings; so try looking in that direction.
[HTC Wings] yassar:
Thanks, but i appreciate if you can guide me how to change the system fonts, as i believe there is a way you can change your system font by editing the registry knowiing that im running the wM6.1 version.

could you guide with the free registry editor and the reg_path to change the system fonts.

thanks a million
[HTC Wings] bigflavor:
Free registry editor.

Check out section V of the wiki entry.

I've never done it myself, so I'm not sure. Let us know how it goes.
[HTC Wings] bigflavor:
http://www.modaco.com/content/smart...e-arabic-font-on-your-smartphone/#entry689943

http://www.penreader.com/pocket-pc/arabic/Language_Extender_Arabic.html

and... this forum may be a better place to look.

http://www.pocketpcdubai.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=109&Itemid=34

Good luck!
[Xposed General] YanaMur:
Всем привет. Нужно сделать модуль для Xposed на заказ. Оплата договорная.
[Xposed General] joluke:
English only forum. Respect the rules

Enviado do meu SM-N950F através do Tapatalk
[Xposed General] SacredDeviL666:
Thread closed.

Kindly go through our forum rules before posting/creating new threads in future.

Thanks

SacredDeviL666.
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] ItsNaveen:
Why redmi k20 pro has only 1080p max resolution for videos playing in YouTube application. My 3yr old lg g5 have qhd video support. Can we enable QHD or 4k support for YouTube video?
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] themostunique:
The screen is only 1080p.
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] demonntl:
mine have 2160p,
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] ggezboye:
It's a waste of data and processing.

On default app, it's done automatically based on internet speed (maybe) and the screen resolution.

You can force 4K using the web version of Youtube in Google Chrome.
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] MrCrowley37:
Try YouTube Vanced

https://xdaforums.com/android/apps-games/app-youtube-vanced-edition-t3758757
[Redmi K20 Pro / Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro Questions & Answe] ItsNaveen:
I instay YouTube vanced. Thanks
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] StayedUp:
Hey all I was wondering if I can use my Verizon s10+ sim card on my old s5? I've read through some of the forums and people say that's u can't because of the bands is that true? I decided to put my sim card in my s5 and I set up the APN settings and I get 4G LTE but I can't make calls or send mms. Is there a way to fix this?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] Ibuprophen:
Those individuals were correct as the S10+ uses the CDMA Frequencies and the S5 uses the GSM Frequencies...

Your Carrier registered your SIM & S10+ by correlating the SIM number with the S10+ IMEI (aka Serial Number).

If you place your S10+ SIM card within a Galaxy S5 and power up your S5, the Carriers system will see a good SIM card but, a different IMEI number.

Also, their system will see the difference as well for the set Frequencies set for the SIM card and the Frequencies of the devices as they differ enough whereas your going to get Internet data & MMS capabilities (hence the 4G LTE) but, your not going to get the Phone & SMS from their system.

The following link is an example of the comparisons between the two (please note the "Mobile networks and data" category):

https://www.phonemore.com/compare/p...75u-1tb-vs-samsung-galaxy-s5-sm-g900t/9744457

I hope that I had explained this okay via text... :eek:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unless asked to do so, PLEASE don't PM me regarding support. Sent using The ClaRetoX Forum App on my Apple Macintosh.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] StayedUp:
Ok thx
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] StayedUp:
So will another model of the s5 fix this issue or no
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] Ibuprophen:
If I had to choose which Samsung Galaxy S5 device will work with a SIM from the Verizon Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus (just as an example in your situation)...

I would just stick with the Verizon Variant of the S5 (SM-G900V) since the SIM is specific for the Verizon Carrier. I just can't guarantee anything personally but, this is what I would do.

https://www.phonemore.com/compare/p...-samsung-galaxy-s10-plus-sm-g975u-1tb/9745809

OR as a last resort, the only other Samsung Galaxy S5 device that should/might work would be the International Variant of the Samsung Galaxy S5 (SM-G900F). This variant has a very broad range of Frequencies that encompasses much/most of what the other variants have.

I can't guarantee the International variant since, out of all the Galaxy devices I have ever owned (and still own most of them), I've never personally owned an International variant myself (though I plan on getting one sometime soon).

This is about the best guidance as I can provide myself. I do wish you the best of luck! :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unless asked to do so, PLEASE don't PM me regarding support. Sent using The ClaRetoX Forum App on my Apple Macintosh.
[Sony Xperia XA2 Themes, Apps, and Mods] NumairAdil:
Here is SensPeria 2, Enjoy..... ?