yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
Their whole point is that size and features are equally important.

Dah...You and your keyboards. That X1 is just rubbish in my opinion - I'd even rather have the huge devices with detatchable keyboards, like the Athena.

Oh, and the flagship argument is going on elsewhere now.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
the diamond does have 192 ram, soit is better than any other in that respect. but apart form that, its all been done [and maybe better] before.

and wow at 256 ram, but why that much, ive never used up teh 128 on my athena, which boots with about 70 on soft reset.. maybe the panels use an amazing amount of ram. or maybe theyre working on android behind the scenes and want it to be the best android device...[sorry to go off topic :P]

Rory
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
LOL, what a great and well constructed argument against the X1!

It’s virtually the same device as the Touch Diamond, apart from the fact that the X1 has a better screen, more RAM, camera light, better battery, worldwide coverage, and expandable memory to name just a few advantages. It’s the same size as my orbit, and that’s with the keybord!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] sedde:
actually i am thinking of getting the x1, but the thing is that if cookers is gonna start messing with it, or yet again i can teach myself how to cook hehe
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Cyrus Kourosh:
Here one graphics from coreplayer video testing (Diamond VGA vs. Glofiish M800 VGA)

http://www.mobinaute.com/141206-premiers-tests-smartphone-htc-touch-diamond.html
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
For me, size is immensely important, and that means no keyboard. Also, I don't need worldwide coverage. Rory will probably be able to tell you more of my reasons, as we argue over whether keyboardless devices are better or not, all of the time.

Yeah, I think that the panels do use an amazing amount of RAM. Personally, I rarely have problems with the 64MB limit on my Touch. The only program combination I've used which is unstable is IE, WLM and WMP.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
damn, those are great coreplayer benchmarks, and mark you have no backing at all about the large ram usage of the xperia panels..
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Cyrus Kourosh:
Actually for the Diamond 192Mo ram

and 90Mo ram is remaining for the user.

Seems that Touch flow 3D needs 20-30 Mo
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
We were talking about the X1, but that's useful information anyway. That's a lot of RAM to mess about with. :p
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
They might be prepping the phones for the upcoming WM7 upgrade, also Web browsing using Opera 9 is going to be resource hungry

After a reset on the diamond, the device takes ages to load up the TouchFlo 3D plugin. I saw it compared to an O2 Orbit 2 reset at the same time I can’t imagine how much memory it uses, must be a large amount though.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Just because you don’t need a keyboard that doesn’t make the Xperia X1 a rubbish device. Also if size is the most important thing for you well I suggest you save some cash and get the Neonode N2 instead :)

http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2007/07/02/neonode-n2-mobile-phone-bored-of-the-iphone/
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
You always have to look for a non-existent problem, don't you? I clearly don't want a keyboard, so any device with a keyboard is rubbish to me.

And I didn't say what size is important to me. Obviously there are upper and lower limits. I think the Touch and Touch Diamond are about right.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Pawel062:
mods need to close this topic ASAP. its getting of topic and was never needed.

the device has the acceleration. touchflo 3d would never work on it(well it would but would be extremely slow as we all saw when we tried the very early version) without the drivers.

now to those with the thinking that the today plugin will easily put on any device.... what u been smoking? :p it needs the proper acceleration drivers for it to work properly. won't be as easy as you think. will be near impossible if you dont have the drivers from the diamond already on the device or someone working on making the drivers work on your device.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Maybe your choice of words could have been more clear, for example if you said that the keyboard on the X1 is of no use to you rather than:

People wouldn’t have got confused, sweeping statements like that will annoy people.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
People didn't get confused. You did. And either quote the sentence in full or don't quote it - the second half of the sentence clearly implies the reason for my opinion.

And I hope I do annoy people. Keyboards are old and I do not like people's attachment to them, because they delaying the keyboard's inevitable demise.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
So exactly what is the point of this benchmark?

Its comparing the Qualcomm MSM7201A chipset with graphics acceleration enabled in firmware of the HTC Diamond, with the Samsung SC32442 chipset on the M800 that doesn’t have any graphics acceleration. Using a version of core player that can fully utilise the graphic acceleration of the Qualcomm chipset.

The end result being the Diamond is better at decoding video Duh!

I’m not even going to mention the fact that the Diamond has more than twice the amount of RAM as the M800. If your going to look at pointless comparisons like this why not compare the Diamond with the Dell X51v.

But hey, I’m sure that really long line on that graph made you feel good, because that’s all that matters right!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
LOL, go and post that in this forum:

http://www.esato.com/board/bookmarks.php?topic=164743&action=add&start=0

Or in the TyTn II forum, I’m sure people will give you plenty of reasons why they need a keyboard. Personally I’m currently using a device without a keyboard at the moment, and as I’m getting the Diamond, my next device will also not have a keyboard, it’s a trade off I’m willing to make.

But at least I have an open enough mind to acknowledge why keyboards are useful and indeed sometimes necessary.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
My understanding is that, any Qualcomm chipset that has the graphics acceleration feature of the chipset enabled in firmware will happily run the TouchFlo 3D plugin. On the Xperia X1 as the screen is 800x480 you will have an additional 160 pixel lines to add other items to your home screen :)
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
I am normally open minded, but Rory (who is a keyboard fan) has only managed to come up with one reason for keyboards being necessary, rather than a waste of space. His reason is people with retarded/fat fingers can't use on-screen keyboards.

And I have no reason to post on those forums: I know I'm right. Apple haven't yet produced a phone with a keyboard or keypad, and HTC's flagship family is the Touch family - three members of which have very few physical buttons, and one of which has a keypad (or something halfway between a keypad and a keyboard).
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
oh just shut up.

for god's sake some people like keyboards some dont, but like imranbashir_uk said, ill make the trade off. i am getting an external one though. what mark doesnt understand is real vga makes things a quarter of the size [half the height and width] so an onscreen keyboard is useless. when i said this, he said something like get a good keyboard then. my answer: there arent any. his answer:make one

he often says random crap like this, and says he is glad he annoys people, but please ignore him
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] walshieau:
and as i said before, this thread needs to be locked

Its getting off Topic "VGA Driver Issue"

Its pointless as "we" all know it wont have an issue.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
We all agreed ages ago that it needed to be locked.

And Rory, you know I would make one to prove you wrong. I'm that sort of person.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
please do then. and before its released.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
You know that this is the wrong side of exams to ask me to do something like that. I'll start using my Touch Diamond properly after the exams, and I'll worry about the keyboard then.

Of course, a financial incentive would speed things up.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
I think I’m going to have to start to ignore him. His comments are really very immature, not well thought out and certainly lack any justification thereby ruining his credibility.

They are faster, easier, more reliable, and more importantly, people like and enjoy the tactile feedback of keyboards / keypads. Until haptic screens become a reality this won’t change, even after haptic it might not change. Similar to why vinyl’s are still being made and sold, even in this day and age of MP3’s and why books are printed and sold, when you can have e-book readers, and why datasheets are printed out, rather than viewed through acrobat reader – Tactile feedback.

Also, how very nice of you to call people with fat fingers retarded!

Apple has only produced one phone! So your comment is based on a sample of one which is silly.

It’s still not a logical argument, saying that as most of HTC’s touch range doesn’t have a keypad / keyboard its validating my argument that there pointless. I could equally say that all of HTC’s TyTn range has keyboards, and all blackberry’s keyboards so my argument must be right.

The touch dual has a keypad, as you rightly spotted, the next device the touch diamond pro / duo will have a slide out qwerty keyboard, so pretty much even stevens in that sense too.

Your off to uni, so time for you to grow up, or at least put up credible justification behind your arguments.

Case and point!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Oh and as for those pointless benchmarks posted earlier, here are some sensible benchmarks, enjoy...

CPU
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
File System
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Graphics

This one is a bit misleading. Only compare VGA with VGA and QVGA with QVGA, also some of the integrated graphics accelerators are not supported by SPB Benchmark.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Overall Index

For people interested in seeing the original article click on the link below:

http://www.solopalmari.com/content/view/4985/298/
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] walshieau:
yes we all know you can copy and paste imranbashir_uk so in future just post the link of the site where you got the images from...
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Honestly, can’t please some people, I try to bring the thread back towards the original topic and you go and start commenting about my cutting and pasting abilities!

Didn’t break any forum rules, posting allows for embedding pictures, pictures are relevant and not off topic, what’s your issue, a slow internet connection?
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] walshieau:
no rule breaking but you just wasted two pages in images....
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
interesting...

the first two images suggest its an athena but very slightly worse and way smaller obviously. and the final index says its better!! not bad at all

Rory
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] flashmp3:
Waisted?! Don't react like that. I appreciated he posted that instead of just give us the link. Thanks to that we have the comparison in our forum and we'll be able to find it even if the source is dead.....I don't understand your reaction. Be cool man it was based on a good idea. He wasn't stilling some information to put it on his website, he was just sharing with us. It's the purpose of a forum
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Well said,

Thankyou...
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] s1rl4ncel0t:
Thank you for those images imranbashir_uk.

Don't listen to the silly things others tell you. Of course it's better to have the images inside the forum, than a link to some other page.

Thanks again imranbashir_uk ;)
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] vaxick:
HTC already skimmed over much of the crowd who is looking for a iPhone type phone by including Windows Mobile on it. And really, as pretty as the interface looks on the Diamond, it isn't efficient as the iPhone that lists all its primary applications on the home screen in a good looking interface. You could argue all you want that you can get that same experience on the Diamond, but the average user isn't going to want to have to deal with spending their time scouring the net trying to figure out what to tweak to make their Windows Mobile experience suit their wants. Plus it will never be as finger friendly as other touch style phones on the market.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
I have more credibility than you. I've shown your arguments to be prejudgemental rubbish that hasn't been justified or thought through so far. And would you just ask Rory about this stuff. I've had these arguments with him before, so he can give you a summary. This is wasting my time. (Yes, I'm in a bad mood, because I replied to this once, and the reply hasn't appeared).

They are faster, easier and more reliable to people who are used to keyboards on these devices. The general public are not used to them, and it's the general public that will matter as these devices become more common.

WTF? Rory does this sometimes - he says random stuff and runs off...

I said people who are retarded or ('/') people with fat fingers.

Apple appear to be sticking to a single line of phones, unlike HTC. I can't see Apple sticking in a keyboard, because that would defeat the very purpose of their phone. Also, I haven't heard any rumors about a keyboard in the 3G iPhone, so I'm counting it as two phones compared to four.

It is a logical argument. You're making it illogical with your replies which don't even make sense. Here's a simpler way to put it: Consider a graph of the proportion of phones produced that have keyboards over time. Obviously that proportion has grown over the years. Now consider what has happened to that proportion with the introduction of the Touch family and iPhone. It has obviously begun to decline sharply. Very sharply...and that decline will only get faster as the battle between HTC and Apple continues.

No...That's three without anything, one with a keypad and one with a keyboard. That's 3-1-1.

You're the one who is amazing me with your lack of justification. I could reference my posts like a Wikipedia article, but you just come up with random stuff.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
Actually, this was tested, and it was found that even on the HTC Touch things were, on average, faster to get to.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
MARK!!!!!!!!!!

sometimes youre a great guy, sometimes youre a total twat. a total attack on a person was not called for, and you come up with random crap too. how has the introduction of the touch family and iphone made a sharp fall in the production of phones with keypads/boards?

there were last year 3 extra hardware inputless phones than the year before, excluding upgrades to phones such as eten's range of glofiish phones, [the touch, touch druise and the iphone]

however on one hand, and off the extreme tips of the hairs on my head, i can count 4 phones with keyboards, the w880i, k810i, n95, the tytn ii.

so thats such a random comment to make. you dont usually make mistakes with numbers, so we will put this down to anger and tiredness, and forget all about it.

i think most of the many many members of this forum agree that there is no battle between htc and apple. the iphone is for people who want a cool and amazingly expensive phone [personally id rather a vertu phone ut what the heck]. its marketed amazingly as all apple stuff is, and so outsold the whole smartphone market by some stupid ratio.[cant think of it right now] but plain and simple, it is essentially a normal phone which can do a bit more elegantly those things like notes and calendar which we have on our smartphones. But i have these things on my k800, so they dont make the iphone smart.

htc on the other hand, in my humble opinion have obviously seen the iphones greatness and flaws, and in the diamond made a phone to compete. [they did this too with the touch, somewhat unsuccessfully] anyway. if they wanted to make a phone to compete with apple, they would, it would be all TF3D based, and have no windows mobile. much like the viewty, which looks pretty cool but can do no more than the iphone, or similar to snapvue on the shift.

But they want us high end users to recognise what the iphone does great, and see that theyve made a phone so much better in spec, but it does all the things we love to do on our tytns, touches or wizards. officey things.

so all in all, ive waffled a bit, but htc arent, and cant compete with apple.

SO STOP BEING ABUSIVE [btw mods dont tolerate abuse]
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
this is true, some guy proved it using touchflo.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
@Dark Fire,

You haven’t shown any of my point to be prejudgmental or rubbish at all, my views are perfectly valid, and don’t need you endorsements.

With regards to analogue keys versus touch screens I like the way you’re trying to separate QWERTY keyboards from 20 Keypads and 12 Keypads. A key is a key, people moving over from candy bar style phones will miss the tactile feedback its as simple as that.

I wasn’t saying random stuff, the case and point statement was with regards to your comment about making a keyboard just to prove rorydaredkign wrong. Who do you think you are Macgyver? I guess you can make it at home and all you need is one small aubergine !

Yeah a sample of two is much better! Does your imaginary graph include all phones released, or just ones without keyboards, all the Nokia smart phones, SE UIQ phones, blackberries...
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
Hold on there. Now you're making up stuff. I said that the proportion of phones that have keyboards is dropping. Not the number. The number is still rising, but the number of phones without is rising faster.

And how am I being abusive? I have said nothing that cruel, and I have not caused any harm. You're deliberately stirring this up now - you told me that I had replies moments before disappearing offline on WLM.

Yes I have shown that, because if you think just a little about these things, you come up with the problems I come up with. For example:

Indeed, a key is a key, but there's clearly a reasonable limit to the number you can put on a device before they become too small and/or the device becomes too big. The QWERTY keyboards on phones are also reasonably different to their larger counterparts, and I don't know anyone who uses a 20-key keypad (both take a lot of 'getting used to'. 12-key keypads are normally on landline phones as well as mobile phones, so nobody would have to learn to use them.

I make random software for Rory all of the time to assist his fiddling with ROMs and other stuff he does, so that is amazingly prejudgemental. I am a computer scientist - not a random person who doesn't know anything about that challenge.

The whole point of the graph is that it does. Please actually get the information and plot it. I know I'm right because until recently there weren't any touchscreen phones - now, you have to admit, there are quite a lot out there (certainly loads of iPhones, and haven't HTC sold 2 or 3 million Touches?). That's going to make a significant dent on the proportion of phones with keyboards.

So, you didn't really think through the coordination issues with the keyboard/keypad point, you've prejudged me, and you've underestimated the amount of thought that I put into that graph. Please just stop now.

Oh, and what Rory said just above proves that I do know my stuff. I do a ridiculous amount of random research.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
mark once made a program that could help cooking roms for my hermes. i havent however had a hermes since december.

however, he does have some great software which he made.

but he is annoying, and says random things all the time, and finds even more random proof, and twists what he says the first time to allow for what you replied with as a flaw.

but i just kinda get on with not moticing now.

but a personal attack was too far.

a bigger man would have said nothing
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] Dark Fire:
Hey, I was attacked too. "His comments are really very immature, not well thought out and certainly lack any justification thereby ruining his credibility."

And that's not even directly aimed at me, which is worse.

And don't tempt me to do worse Rory, please. Once again, you know I will if you push me. Just stop.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] JASTECH:
My question, what about the Nvidia chip APX 2500? Will that be used in a HTC Diamond or wait for other devices?

Would Linux be a good OS for the Diamond?

I also would like to help what I can. Thanks, JASTECH

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/02/11/nvidia-shows-off-apx-2500-cellphone-applications-processor/
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] walshieau:
no one knows, as the hardware has not been pulled apart yet...
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] flashmp3:
Lots of people bought Iphone juste because it was made by apple. Just look in the movie. Instead of saying "mp3 player" they now say "Ipod"! It is not because of the quality, it is just because of the physical aspect and because of the advertising they made everywhere for there mp3 players and laptop. Thanks to that people would buy anything coming for apple. I owned different Ipod and remember how the sound sucks (and this also with the new Ipod touch and Iphone) and how until the G5, the battery life time was so poor. There are even people that brought suit Apple because of that!

As He said, most of people that buy Apple don't know the quarter of the technology in it. Proof:Lots of them think that Iphone is the first Handheld to provide the ability to watch a video or surf on the net! That exists since ages! Apple just had the right idea to provide all that stuff through a beautiful interface. That why I totally agree the user experience matters a lot! Diamond has this interface that permit to have all the multimedia and message applications easily. The only thing that make it won't beat Iphone is a problem of popular!
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] imranbashir_uk:
Actually the Diamond is based on the Qualcomm MSM7201A chipset. This has been shown to be true by the various online videos that show the settings about page for the Diamond. The chipset has got various features integrated into the chip itself. The features are enabled by firmware at power up.

The diamond does not have a separate GPS chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate WiFi chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate 3G, HSDPA, GSM, chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate graphics chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip.

Here are just a few of the additional items built into the MSM7201A chip that haven’t been enabled on the Diamond. TV out, VGA out, USB on the Go.
[Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV General] rorydaredkign:
i dont know much about the chipset, but would you say theyre hardware disabled, ie burnt out on purpose or not connected? or software disabled, ie no drivers?

Rory