yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
SuperSU is systemless root, just as Magisk is... What most get confused about is that Magisk also can do systemless system modifications.

The only time you would run into any trouble would be if you have a Magisk module mounting the same file(s) you want to edit manually. Other than that it shouldn't be any different. It's just root by different names...

You only need to use modules if you want to do systemless modifications (which has a few advantages, like being easy to revert, sticking across system updates, etc).
[Magisk] arf8:
Thanks for that explanation, coming from SuperSu and reading the different threads and articles really does cause confusion.

So if I understand correctly, if I buy an S10, root it per the instructions i can use Root Explorer and Autorun & AdAway for example to make changes to system files and it will behave the same as SuperSu on older platforms?

You mentioned the benefits of systemless modifications is easy to revert, i guess for those that don't document changes or make a backup this is a benefit but i do both so it wouldn't make much sense for me.

But you touched on something important about sticking across system updates. If I manually edit the system files like I do in SuperSu, doesn't that render system updates obsolete because the phone is now rooted and system files have been modified and OTA updates no longer work? I assume by updates you mean manual updates and not OTA so I just want to confirm.

Another question regarding manually changing system files how does that affect SafetyNet checks and Magisk ability to Hide root from banking apps. Would these still work if I use root explorer, AutoRun & Adaway for example?

Thanks a lot
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
Correct, I'm talking about manual updates, not OTA (which won't work with a modified /system).

Most system edits you do will still make it possible to pass SafetyNet, but that all depends on what kind of edit you do. I don't have an example of any kind of edit that would trigger it though, so generally you should be safe.

There's actually another very good reason to start doing systemless modifications... From what [MENTION=4470081]topjohnwu[/MENTION] has been telling me it's actually going to be impossible to do manual modifications of /system starting from Android Q. I'm not even going to pretend to understand it all, but that's what he's apparently found while looking into rooting the Pixel 3/3XL on Q. It might not happen on all devices updating to Q (and knowing Samsung they'll likely come up with some sort of hybrid solution of their own), but that seems to be the future of Android modding.
[Magisk] wilsonhlacerda:
Generally speaking if you touch (actual) system files you'll not pass SafetyNet anymore. Neither will be able to do OTA updates. Besides that you'll have to reapply all your changes if you update system manually.

That's where Magisk comes. During boot Magisk builds a new system and apply the changes (with modules) that you want on it, not touching the actual device system files. This is the "systemless" concept.

For instance on Magisk there's an option (a module) that will let edit hosts file systemless. That way you can use AdAway without problems, its hosts file will be replacing Magisk system hosts, but not the actual device system hosts.

In a nut shell and simple words it is this way:

device boots.

Magisk gets the actual system and clone it.

Magisk apply the changes you want - modules that you have installed or manually written on appropriate folder - to this system clone only.

You never touch actual device system.

Magisk this way can hide whole root and system changes to Google and other apps.

You can update OTA or manually with no worries. All your changes will be always reapplied by Magisk over whatever actual system you have.

If you want to change system files ( systemless) you can:

write a module and add it to Magisk Manager app

or with a file manager manually put some files on a specific folder of Magisk (same place that modules do)

or use some of the already available modules that let's you do some generic stuff (for instance edit props, debloat, systemize apps,...)

But if you really want to change your actual system (NOT systemless) sure you can. You can do that under recovery. Or you can do that with regular root file manager on a specific Magisk folder that is a link (mirror) to actual system.

All those folders and how to deal with them are explained on Magisk Github readme. Search there for file structure.
[Magisk] arf8:
Thanks again, very useful information.

The edits will be to XML files to tweak and mod the usual CSC open up hidden features, etc so hopefully that does not trigger SafetyNet.

I did read a little about Q on and Pixel 3. I believe he achieved root on Pixel 2. If this is the case it is a sad day for those of us who like to do mods the old fashion way.

With respect to doing these mods via systemless, i understand that modules have to be created. I assume this is a straight forward process? I've never dabbled in Magisk or its modules, if i want to make a simple change to an XML file is there a tutorial on how to do so and how the modules have to be loaded?

Thanks
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
It's quite easy to make modules, yes. [MENTION=4470081]topjohnwu[/MENTION] has it laid out pretty well in the docs:

https://topjohnwu.github.io/Magisk/guides.html

And it's all pretty well explained in the template files as well:

https://github.com/topjohnwu/magisk-module-installer

Basically you place the files in the same directory structure as you'd find them on your device's /system partition and Magisk will do the rest. And, this community is generally very helpful so if you ever need help getting a module together it's just a matter of asking. :good:
[Magisk] arf8:
I thought based on the response from Didgeridoohan that touching some system files does not trigger safetynet?

Thanks this makes sense, but how does one create a module for an application that modifies countless files. I get AdAway modifies the hosts file and changing xml files is easy enough to change because you know what file changed. But for a program like AutoRun Manager which changes countless program receivers, how do you make a module out of that? The application itself modifies countless files based on the changes made in the application. I don't assume everything can be done through a Systemless module or am I wrong?

Understand on the updates if changes are done via systemless.

So if i copy a system file and place it in the specific folder of Magisk is there more required to make this a module. You will have to excuse my Magisk ignorance. I'll have to look at those modules to see how they made them and see if i can apply the same to the mods I want to do on single files but the bigger issue is on applications itself that modify multiple files like Autorun, Tasker, VPN clients etc.

Thanks I read through the readme at Github but I had more questions than answers.
[Magisk] arf8:
I will have to keep reading and looking at examples to make sure I understand. It seems pretty easy the way you put it by copying the file in the same directory structure but it seems like there is more to it than that?

My question is how do you apply systemless changes when it is not just a single file for example AutoRun manager that manages the Receivers of every single application in the phone which could be hundreds including system files. How do you make a module or systemless change at this point? Perhaps I should stick with what I know from the SuperSu days and let the application do its job and not upgrade to Q. Mind you I'm on a rooted S6edge with SuperSu on PingPong exploit so I'm very familiar with this phones file systems and documented all my changes but I also rely on many applications to do the changes through their front end.
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
No, that's basically it. Put the files in the proper place in the zip, flash it in the Manager or recovery and you're good to go. Or, you could even do it manually while booted by creating the module directory under /data/adb/modules_update. There you can then place the module.prop file (so that the module is recognised by the Manager) and a /system (and/or /system/vendor) directory where you put all the files you want to replace with your own. Reboot, and voila.

Does the app in question actually edit the system and/or vendor partitions? Or is it simply updating system settings that are found elsewhere? If it's the latter it doesn't really matter...
[Magisk] arf8:
It sounds very simple the way you put it. I looked for some examples on XDA to see if I understand the changes but what threw me off for example on this one below is that the changes are being made to the build.prop file but I don't see a build.prop in any of the folders? instead there is a system.prop?

https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Grave/voenabler

That is a great question, i don't know to be honest, I do know the app does require root to function in making changes to system files so lets assume the former instead of the latter. Does that mean Magisk can no longer "hide root" if this app is used?

How about Ti backup or more specifically flash fire? Currently I have flashfire backups for any major change I make so if something goes south i recover the entire phone using this tool. Its a beautiful tool for creating snapshots and full recovery, no config needed. I don't suppose it will work any longer with systemless option?

This is just my ignorance as I read more I have more questions, but supersu for example exploited vulnerabilities to achieve root. Is Magisk actually exploiting any vulnerabilities or simply taking advantage of the fact the bootloader is unlocked and therefore it mimics various system partitions to give you a faux root? I'm trying to understand if there is no actual vulnerability to exploit like PingPong in Lollipop for example how can I make changes manually to the system files using Root Explorer? On my S6 Edge it has a locked bootloader, but I still have root access with SuperSu via an exploit, I don't think this is possible with Magisk b/c the bootloader is locked so is Magisk really root?

thanks again for your patience but I'm sure this will come up for anyone doing from SuperSu to Magisk
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
Whenever Magisk changes a prop value that you normally would find in build.prop it doesn't actually alter the file, but instead loads a new value in the old ones place. That's done with the resetprop tool and Magisk reads the system.prop file during boot to load the new values.

As mentioned earlier, it's all a matter of what kind of edits you make... But any edit that's not been done through Magisk cannot be hidden by MagiskHide.

There's a very real chance that Flashfire will not work. This is simply because it is practically abandoned and as far as I know [MENTION=631273]Chainfire[/MENTION] has no interest in spending the considerable effort it would take to get it up to speed with the current Android situation.

Magisk does not use any exploits and you will

have

to unlock your bootloader to install it. There is nothing faux about MagiskSU. It's just as real as any other root solution you'll find out there...
[Magisk] arf8:
Makes sense, i was looking for build.prop

understand

This is probably the most disheartening to hear as I'm not sure what other alternative there is to make a complete snapshot. I assume TWRP but i'm not familiar enough with it and it does not work with the S10.

Again my ignorance is getting the better of me here so bear with me. SuperSu used the PingPong kernel exploit in Lollipop to achieve root, regardless if it had a locked/unlocked bootloader. How does Magisk actually achieve root on the S10 and provide elevated privileges if it is not exploiting a known vulnerability? Or is it exploiting a vulnerability? Is my assumption not correct that because the bootloader is unlocked, it is simply (over simplifying) make a copy of the system partitions and than gives you the impression you have root?

Very enlightening information.
[Magisk] arf8:
Upon further reading, it looks like Magisk zip contains the su binary which gives you root access without having to exploit a vulnerability so it only works with unlocked bootloader.
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
Mornin'.

Correctamundo... No exploits, no vulnerabilities, just old-fashioned root.

Besides the su binary, Magisk also needs to modify the boot image, or in the S10's and some other modern devices case the recovery image. That's why we need to have the bootloader unlocked, to flash the modified file to the boot/recovery partition.
[Magisk] arf8:
Thanks as usual for the confirmation.

To summarize & correct me if I'm wrong, but the take away for anyone else coming from SuperSu to Magisk who read this thread, is that you will still be able to modify the system files the same old fashion way with apps like Root Explorer, caveat pre-Q (upcoming Android OS), but you give up the ability to Hide Root, which is one the key features what Magisk is known for. Otherwise you can go the modules route which is "systemless" and maintain the ability to hide root.

Does that sound right?

For those like me who are used to the old fashion way of tweaking it will take some getting used to modules and creating them. The problem or issue becomes older style apps which can't be adopted to modules is where the issue arises for systemless conversion. I learned a lot so I appreciate your feedback. If you ask me some of this info should be sticky'd somewhere.
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
You've almost got it... Even with most old-fashioned system modifications you should be able to hide root. The problem arises if you do some kind of edit that apps looking for root usually look for, like installing Busybox. But that specific case shouldn't be an issue, since there's a Busybox module available in the Magisk repo.

Actually, many if the things you'd normally edit after having rooted can be done through Magisk modules already available.

Debloating - use Debloater.

Systemising apps - use App Systemizer.

Editing build.prop and other prop values- use MagiskHide Props Config.

Hosts adblocking - use the built-in systemless hosts module (Manager settings) and AdAway (or your hosts editor of choice).

Etc...
[Magisk] arf8:
Thanks, I do have busybox installed so I will use the Module for sure and all the other modules you mentioned. The concern is applications themselves like AutoRun for example and I'm sure more. But good to know the option is there to manually make changes like the old fashion way if you are not concerned about hiding or passing safetynet. I personally don't have anything I want to hide, using this method will trip knox so samsung pay on the phone is out the door. Setting up Samsung Pay on a Gear watch is a different story so that will be beneficial.

In regards to adblocking, are you saying you can use the built-in systemless hosts module and also install the Adaway apk like you normally would? Does it require a modified version of the Adaway app or the regular apk for F-Droid for example will work fine?

One final question since we touched on this earlier. Since FlashFire will not work and TWRP is not an option. What is an alternative for taking a complete snapshot of your phone for backup and recovery?
[Magisk] Didgeridoohan:
Yup. Enable the option in the Magisk Manager and reboot. After that Adaway (the regular one from F-Droid) will not touch /system.

I'm assuming you mean to get the Exynos version of the S10 (since you won't be able to unlock the bootloader otherwise), so: https://twrp.me/samsung/samsunggalaxys10.html

But, I'm not the right person to ask about full snapshot backups... I never do that (haven't for years), but instead make sure that any important data (photos, etc) always is backed up to the cloud. The rest is easy to set up again after a reset (and a reset is good to do once in a while).
[Magisk] pr1jker:
This is a great, useful thread, thanks for all the info!
[Magisk] wilsonhlacerda:
You can use TWRP when available.

Or there are some backup modules/apps that helps a lot (more similar to Titanium Backup).

You can use Titanium Backup like old days, only on its settings turn on option to use system Busybox if having problems (and use Busybox module from Magisk repo). Use it for backups. For debloat or systemize apps, prefer the systemless approach with the modules Debloater and Systemizer.

EDIT:

check those:

https://xdaforums.com/apps/magisk/magisk-module-app-data-keeper-adk-t3822278

https://xdaforums.com/android/apps-games/app-migrate-custom-rom-migration-tool-t3862763
[Magisk] arf8:
That sounds very easy for Adaway good to know.

Yes I mean the Exynos version, sadly the carriers will likely never allow unlocked devices here in the US.

I'm not quite sure i understand what this statement means "You are therefore strongly advised to first root your device with Magisk and

then pre-root a TWRP image

before flashing it to recovery."

Snapshots are so easy, at least with flashfire given all the mods I have done, it would take me at least a few days to set it up and configure everything from scratch. I rather not go through that painful factory restore so hopefully someone can explain how the TWRP works with recovery and restore since the S10 is not the easiest phone to jump given all the hoops for Magisk to work. I did a search on the main thread and posted the question about TWRP process, hopefully someone can chime in with more experience.
[Magisk] arf8:
Looks like there is good info in here about the TWRP process

https://xdaforums.com/galaxy-s10/development/recovery-twrp-3-3-0-galaxy-s10-exynos-t3924856
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] mrlease:
Does anyone know how to assign a hard key (button) to the speakerphone.

While driving, I would just like to be able to press a button instead of looking at the screen and trying to press the small screen button.

Charlie
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam ROM Development] beastfellow:
Everybody wanted to get his/her answer at once. Search Search is first part to the answer but no you still stay like this. Do read the manuals sometimes busy guys

Keep pressing Call button for few seconds it will on the speaker and same way can off it.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] mtucker:
I noticed some Oneplus 7 Pro cases show up in my daily Oneplus 7 pro search. Please post links for cases as they come out.

Ringke FUSION X (has decent pictures of the Oneplus 7 Pro)

http://www.ringke.com/site/item.php?id=46&item=683

Tudia HEAVY DUTY DUAL LAYER MERGE CASE

https://tudiaproducts.com/products/heavy-duty-dual-layer-case-for-oneplus-7-pro

KuGi Soft TPU

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QQ1V4VG/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_8P12CbCPPC92G

Osophter Dual Layer Cases Hard

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q1NFX8L/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_4S12Cb6FBFTMZ
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] djsubterrain:
Amazon UK :

Spigen Rugged Armor (an old favourite for some people) : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spigen-Compatible-OnePlus-Original-Flexible/dp/B07QQ9LSK4

£9.99 (with Amazon Prime)

Ringke Fusion-X : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ringke-Transparent-Protection-Absorption-Technology/dp/B07Q6GZXZK

£8.99 (with Amazon Prime)

(No affiliate links :) )
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] dadoc04:
Probably gonna get a clear tpu to go with that blue....

[MENTION=1744309]OneStepAhead[/MENTION] any plans for diztronic to get in on the 7pro?
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] mtucker:
I have been binging on Oneplus 7 Pro review videos and the phone seems to come with a clear TPU case in the box. Not sure if that is for all variants though. I was going to order a clear case off Amazon, but I'll wait until I see if it comes with one.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] dadoc04:
Stock case is really thin.... So i usually go with 1 of the big names for a case
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] borijess:
I wish UAG makes a case for this phone.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] tranemonk33:
But they Must lower the price.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] freaky2xd:
I went through Amazon today to find a screen protector and a case, some of them already have reviews that are 10 days old, those paid reviews don't make the choice easier...
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] mcwarre:
It will be interesting to see which ones work well with a good screen protector
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] VennligFiende:
I like thin cases so I ordered a Nillkin https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RSGPBRT/ref=twister_B07DCQVJX4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I had one on my McLaren for months. Took a few drops, works well, minimum bulk and weight.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] schmeggy929:
Just wished it had a magnetic back like the Nillkin I'm using for the 6T.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] dorsefrith:
Still waiting for the phone but I have already ordered:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/For-Oneplus-7-Pro-Case-Oneplus7-Pro-Cover-Finger-Ring-Holder-Soft-Silicone-Shockproof-Back-Cover/33008606427.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2bbf4c4dDeHpny
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] kayfusen:
Official One Plus Silicone Case (Red) for 7 pro

Any word regarding the Red Silicone Case for the 7 pro? Loved it on my 6T!
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] JodyBreeze901:
I may try that DBrand Grip case when it comes out. I heard good things about that case.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] Robdyx:
Really thinking about upgrading from my 1+5... You guys would trust in a bumper (only edge covering) to protect this phone? what do you think about that kind of "cases"?
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] whitak3r:
I'm looking on Amazon but it seems that most the ones at the top are full of fake reviews. Some of them have 5+ reviews and none are even verified purchases...

I may just check out a couple of the 10 dollar ones and see how well they work.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] RabbleCake:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q519FB2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got that one and worse case returning it is easy if there are issues
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] tech_head:
Osophter Dual Layer Cases Hard

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q1NFX8L..._4S12Cb6FBFTMZ

I ordered in dark cyan.

I like the Ringke but it won't arrive when I get the phone.

My phones always have a case.

I like the Karbon case from Oneplus, I just didn't want to fork over close to $40 for a case.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] whitak3r:
I went with this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q4MKCN2

No idea how good it is, but I'll update once I get it.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] Elnrik:
https://rhinoshield.io/pages/shop/O...repreorder&prod=oneplus-7-7-pro-pre-pre-order

Hopefully will be ready soon.

My favorite case (bumper, really) for the last 5 phones I've owned. With that amazing blue on the back of the phone, no way I want to cover it up.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] justwondering:
I went with this one from Amazon.co.uk

It's got a good grip texture, it's raised on the top and bottom lip of the case and it's fairly light weight + it's only £7.99! Very impressed for the price.

The case weighs around 30grams and offers good camera protection.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/iBetter-On...=1559348951&s=gateway&sprefix=OnePlus+&sr=8-5
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] j1999t:
I picked up the Otterbox Clear case for mine, the phone comes Monday, I already have the case. It is completely clear.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] lg3FTW:
My last 2 other box clears turned yellow very very fast & I don't work in a dirty environment. I found that spigen and poetic both have better clear cases especially for the price. But I do like the other box ones.
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] adibeckett:
Supcase Unicorn Beetle case is out for the Op7pro on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8TKWHY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_7WH8CbM0PXZEJ

Wonder how this would compare with Spigen or Poetic cases.

Hoping that the Otterbox, Case-mate, Rhinoshield, Speck, and Dband grip cases for the Op7pro makes it way to Amazon. I have giftcards to use!
[OnePlus 7 Pro Accessories] room511:
I bought one of those for my 6t and i immediately wanted my money back. In my opinion this case is a huge POS.

Feels like crap in your hand.

Huge fingerprint magnet.

Good luck keeping dust off it too.

The device just looked horrible in it.

Of all the many years that I've owned phone cases, this one was the worst.

I'm currently using the Case Mate and I absolutely love it!