yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
I can be polite exactly once per thread per idiot. Typically, it's a misunderstanding that is cleared up with a more in-depth explanation. As for permission to read the thread... re-read my question, except this time, pretend you're not a flame-baiting schmuck that didn't get hugged by his mother enough as a child. I asked you a question... WHY would you read a thread about a problem you don't have, nor have a solution for? I'm hoping you can play the piano brialliantly, thus adding the term "savant" to your title.

Actually... the question mark implies that I am asking a *question*. While it doesn't explicitly ask the question "Does anyone have some video acceleration news?", it does in fact do more than subtly *hint*. In fact... one would go as far as to say that it is IMPLIED. Your illilteracy is not my problem (Oh... and illiteracy is the inability to read... I am not saying your parents weren't married). Furthermore, rephrasing my example actually DOES count as repeating myself... it doesn't have to be exact; that's what the word "verbatim" would be used for. Isn't English FUN!??!

Before (as I said), I was polite about this. YOU ARE A LIAR. I believe that your pants may be ablaze. I have heard it suggested to hang pants in such a condition on a telephone wire. HTC has stated that they know about the issue and their solution is to buy a new phone when they come out with video acceleration. Either you are OK with the delay (which is what I assumed originally), have *zero* concept of time, or option C: you are a dirty, filthy, weird liar. I'm betting it's option C, I'm betting you look for fights behind the anonymity of the internet constantly, and I bet you die alone and unloved.

If I were in *your* position, I wouldn't assume that even though HTC has admitted the problem, and just about everyone complains about this problem, your ARGUMENT about the device would advance this thread in any kind of positive way whatsoever. Again... you will die alone. I am clairvoyant.

...all alone.

On this, I agree a little bit... the latest ROMs fixed the delay a little bit, if I recall. Certainly, he lists an older DCD rom in his sig.

Oh... PS: All alone, by yourself, with no one to cry at your funeral.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
Actually, having the exact same hardware and the exact same hardware *does* mean that "just because other Titans exhibit poor performance in this area", yours does as well. Unless somehow, you have a defect in your equipment that somehow makes your phone FASTER. It's not an issue of having an open mind... it's an issue about having the same equipment. Again, though, if you have no issues with the performance of the phone, that's excellent. I honestly *am* happy that you are satisfied with your purchase... but you can't tell other people that their dissatisfaction with a product is baseless. Everyone has their own opinion... this thread, however, wasn't created for posting your *opinion*. I was looking for updates. HTC has said they're working on something (but have stated it's not acceleration, but more along the lines of "tweaks" and optimization)...
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
I am glad to see that you have wrested control of your account back from your evil twin. If you now re-read my posts, you will see that I never said that anyone's dissatisfaction is baseless, simply that it may be due to some other unknown reason than what was being assumed. And I do have a vested interest in finding out why my phone does not exhibit the problem that the vast majority suffer from, as I would like to avoid changing whatever it is that currently makes my phone apparently immune.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bedoig:
Wow Foetus, that last post was pure gold. So hard to quote just one part, but if I have to, I'm going with this line:

Hilarious!!
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
Would have been better if I had spelled "brilliantly" properly... Curse you, irony!
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
I believe someone suggested that you take some video and post it... it would more likely than not clear up the confusion. My best guess is that what you find acceptable in a 600 dollar device is not acceptable to most other people. If, however, your device performs smoothly (have you tried to scroll up and down yet as I suggested? Is *that* smooth?), then we should take a look at what we are all doing wrong.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Keystone:
Well, without the delay of official moderation -- dude, tone it down.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From my perspective of my phone and the one I've set-up for my father, the today screen and most apps switch from landscape to portrait in ~1 second. Scrolling up and down in the program's listing is also fine without blatant jitters and pauses. Video is silk smooth when not using the stock Media Player.

Would the release of Direct Draw drivers be appreciated? Certainly. Are they a necessity? No.

A possible discrepancy between our devices? I'm using a WM 6 build.

Telus has not released a ROM since last July. Despite Telus and thankfully due to HTC's continual background dissemination of updated drivers to various and less lazy carriers along with third party development (ROM extractors, olipro, kitchen builders, etc..) my phone works as it was advertised and expected to.

Simple, turn on and go to perfection? No. A minor amount of work has been required. Yet I'm not the type to sit around and wait for others to resolve solvable problems for me and threaten to sue (HTCClassaction.org remains without lawyer representation and has little if any validity to its rants) for issues that will only take a simple and free CAB installation (TCPMP for video) to resolve.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
Dude... I did. It's like telling someone to leave after they're already out the door... pointless and condescending. Comments like this are plain unneccessary and only add fuel to any fires that are raging... it started as a discussion, and is currently *back* to a nice, friendly discussion.

That said... again, I must believe that people that don't see the problem have not seen how the *old* phones perform. It's like seeing graphics at 60 frames per second and then buying a new computer that does 30 frames per second. Although 30 FPS is plenty, it's not nearly as smooth as 60, and you would be ticked off going from 60 to 30 after spending 600 bucks, whereas someone that's never owned a PC before would be perfectly happy with 30.

Having said all of this, maybe a new thread should be started called "I am perfectly happy with the performance of my device" so we can try to get some INFORMATION into this thread. I wasn't looking for solidarity in people unhappy, nor was I looking for some discussion as to how a few people are happy with their phones. I (and I'm sure many others) are looking for updates to the HTC patch or any news related to hacking ROMs on newer devices that could potentially give us speed boosts.

Finally, just to be clear: I don't use my device for video. My complaints are solely that my screen refreshes at an unacceptable (to many) rate because of the lack of video acceleration. My free phone from Sprint is smooth as silk, and my expensive WM (I have used 6 and 6.1) phone feels clunky, although ultimately far more useful.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
I took a video, admittedly very poor quality, but I don't have a video camera and it was done in video mode on my digital camera...but every time I click "manage attachments" I get a database error.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] morganlowe:
Wow... this is nuts... time for beer-interjection.

My Axim X51 and Axim X51V where awesome at video, My Titan sucks at it... It would be nice to not have all the refresh delays but you know, it's a phone. I just hope HTC figures it out for the future products.

Either way, if a hack comes out or HTC fixes it, great, if not... all well swell what the hell.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
Awesome! Perhaps you can upload it (and just put a link to it here) using one of the free file sharing sites. Looking forward to seeing it.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
Try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2JmMu3Ylc
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] MrTek:
Bak,

My VX6800 pretty much takes the same amount of time to flip from L to P and back again as in your video.

Maybe a 1 second lag over all.

Jef
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
MrTek, you have taken your life in your hands posting that in this thread...I am afraid that my flame-retardant clothing won't protect you too...

And I am shocked that even Foetus is speechless...he must be watching that video over, and over, and over...
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] prepsssuck:
This is the best post I've read all week....Its like a soap opera....My lags sometimes but only when I have a few programs open and using like crazy so I think its more of a Ram issue...which everyone can aggree can be better.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
Where did everybody go? Are you guys that embarrassed that you can't say anything? If it makes you feel better, start with a simple apology; it isn't that difficult. And then, I still would like to know what is different about my Titan that keeps it from exhibiting the same behavior as most of your devices. Until that can be determined, I am not only unwilling to flash a custom ROM or make any major changes to the setup, but don't even know if I can safely add applications.

edit: as an additional kicker, I received this Titan as a refurbished replacement from Sprint for my first one, which after a couple of months wouldn't power up at all; but from what I remember, it did not respond as fast as this one, but it was prior to the release of the GPS ROMs.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Keystone:
bakntyme, your video displays the identical performance that I achieve. Thanks for getting that out there -- no time for me to play...
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] steps:
Yea you really didn't prove a point...ALL the moguls switch from L to P in the same amount of time in your video. Mine does. I still think for these devices to be as "powerful" as they are supposed to be it still lags. L to P should be instant (Like the sidekick). If I can see my screen flip and redraw itself, it is too slow and should be fixed. Unfortunately you are still in the same boat as the rest of us like I stated previously your video didn't prove anything.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] MrTek:
I'm not sure the big deal about this thread. Any improvement from HTC is going to benefit us all, no matter how much faster or slower one device maybe.

My biggest problems is due to not enough memory for what I want to do with the device. This just means I have to manage memory through the day by using tools like oxios, etc.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
After seeing those who posted after me, there are about half a dozen users who say that they do not have the same problem as the OP and others. I include "steps" in that count, because he (or she) apparently did not read the "5 to 10 second" screen redraw complaint and says that he, as well as all Titan users, experiences sub-second redraws, although he believes that to be not acceptable.

Maybe those of you who are experiencing the problem are not really the vast majority, but have been so aggressive and intimidating to others that they have not come forward to dispute your claims.

Maybe my Titan is not such an anomaly, and I should not be so concerned about installing apps and making other changes. But I will wait a bit longer to see what else comes out of this.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
I don't read this forum all day... I typically check it a few times throughout the day, so an instant response does not mean I'm "speechless". I haven't seen the video, although I will check it out tonight (I block Youtube here at work, and I try to play by my own rules). From what it sounds like, there is at least a 1 second "lag time" shown in the video... which confirms what I thought... It is acceptable to you, but not to me. Once you load a PROGRAM (Skyfire is a good example), it's even slower... typically changing to landscape in 1+ seconds, but not utilizing the full screen (reformatting and redrawing) for another 1-3 seconds. Again... I will keep an open mind until I see this video... I still haven't heard your results (or better, SEEN them) in scrolling up and down quickly inside "Programs" which has basically been *the* test example (between old devices and new). Again... is it usable? Yes, absolutely... is it what you expect after paying 600 bucks for a NEW device to "upgrade" your old one? Absolutely not.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
Ok... I just watched it, but I will throw in one caveat: I watched it using Skyfire on my 6800, so I'll still reserve some judgement when I watch it on my PC at home...

From what I just saw, your PPC shows the same kind of delays that mine has. Exactly the same. It's basically what I thought: you and I have the same issue, but you don't mind it, and I do. I will try to post a link, but do a search on Youtube for comparisons between OLDER HTC devices, and the 6800. You will then see what I'm talking about. The redraw times are just not acceptable for a 600 dollar device, at least... to most people. I have a Jornada 520 from about, oh... 8 years ago (I'm guesstimating). The redraw times are FASTER on that device using 2d applications. Period. So we're back to where we started: Your satisfaction and my satisfaction is the only thing different here... the devices are identical.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
This one, I will take the blame for as I should have been more clear... the delay is about 1.5 seconds when just rotating from landscape to portait in the home screen... but I never rotate in the home screen... why would I? When rotating, it's because I need the keyboard, and when I need the keyboard, I'm in a program... I use Skyfire typically, but for giggles, I opened up PIE, and opened up a webpage with a moderate amount of graphics... then went back and forth between L and P... granted, every once in a while, it will rotate in about a second, but typically, it's anywhere from 1-4 seconds... so I contend that my "5-10" second redraw is a little (cough) exaggerated in most instances (although certainly, it *does* take 5-10 seconds on occasion for certain programs to redraw completely). I've learned my lesson about throwing numbers around casually on the intertubes. *However*... even a ONE second draw time is just ridiculous on a 600 dollar device released in 2007.

Now... does ANYONE have ANY updates as to a fix?

EDIT: Just noticed that I stated "I count roughly 2-3 seconds" early in this thread (after the initial numbers taken from thin air and perceived memory), so I don't feel like *such* schmuck about the initial numbers.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
True enough about the RAM, but you could see the 6800 was low on RAM just by looking at the box it came in, so HTC can't be faulted for that one whatsoever, ultimately.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] prepsssuck:
Never blamed them for the lack of RAM....Its just an issue...Just a thought ..It may lag more by using the HTC Home screen instead of the stock today screen. HTC home seems to be a little HOG and eats up some VITAL ram available...at least on the titan.. Just a thought though....But as you can read in my post that I said it could be better... not that is what a problem with the device....PS you come off as a real....well thats a differnet post all together so Ill stay on topic...So when those new drivers coming out?
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
I could see you inferring that about me in the ONE post... but I was kind of agreeing with you in that last one. Sorry if that one post makes you assume I have that tone in every e-mail now. Maybe it was the use of "you" in my comment... I meant "you" as in "anyone that bought this, including me"... not "you" as in "you specifically". Didn't mean to imply you were blaming HTC... just noting that although I agree it's an issue, it's not something I would expect HTC to do anything about, unlike this video issue... hope that cleared things up a bit.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
I will also wait until you see it on your home PC, but there is not a delay in scrolling in the Programs screen. And somehow you went from a 5 to 10 second delay to a fraction of one second delay in your description of your device's response? If you do not think the performance shown in my video, viewed on your PC, is acceptable, you will never be satisfied.

If you see what you described in the below extracts from your posts on your home computer, you need a new computer or a new stopwatch. The entire video clip spans an elapsed time of 33 seconds, during which there are 6 portrait-to-landscape redraws and 7 scrolling redraws in the Programs folder. Add in the time between the screen taps and keyboard slides, as well as the first opening draw of the program folder and the final draw of the Today screen... I could have done it in less total elapsed time, but I did not think it was necessary to race through the video. And by the way I did rotate the screen twice in the Programs screen.

edit:

There is not a redraw in my video that takes more than one-half of a second and most are much faster than that. I doubt that your home computer scrolls noticeably faster in any window than my video shows the Programs screen scrolling.

And yes, after you re-read some of your posts in the first few pages of this thread, one of them in particular, you should feel ashamed even if you can't bring yourself to admit that the response times in my video are acceptable.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Foetus:
Ok... first of all, I called *myself* out on the 5-to-10 thing, even though I had already changed this to a 2-3 second delay later... not a "fraction of a second". Even in your video, the delay is at least one second, and this is without *any* programs running. As for me never being satisfied, I think you've only been reading my posts for points to argue with. I WAS SATISFIED WITH MY OLD PDA'S PERFORMANCE. Check this video out for an example of OLD hardware vs NEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJWAu6IRe4

I saw the P-to-L redraws, and find them totally unacceptable for a 600 dollar device. As for the scrolling up and down... although I found what you showed unacceptable, it's not what I was referring to. Clicking the equivalent to "page down" is not scrolling... click and hold the scroll bar, and go up and down as fast as you can... it blinks... badly. Even in *your* video, it's blinking pretty badly... again... especially compared to older hardware. I again point you to the Youtube example, although there used to be one on Youtube showing the exact thing I'm talking about (the current video just shows TomTom, but it still illustrates nicely the difference between older hardware and a 600 dollar "upgrade").

I don't think *I'm* the one that needs a new stopwatch... but again: any perceived delay greater than a device 3+ years older than it is just plain silly.

HANDS DOWN, my home PC smokes this. I can now only assume you have some kind of blinking disorder that happens to be synced perfectly with your phone.

Ok... now I'm just going to stop, because once you start not even budging on what someone OTHER than yourself finds "acceptable", you are officially too narrow-minded and bull-headed to have a serious discussion. Even as big of an a-hole as I can be, I have contended from the start of this that your level of acceptable and mine may differ. Go check out an older HTC device like the Magician and use it for at least one week. After that, switch back to the Mogul and tell me if you think still think it's acceptable. That said, I've already wasted too many words with you... I first thought you were flame-baiting, then thought you were going to be cool about it (after I saw you were going to post a video), and now I'm right back to my original thought: You think so highly of your own opinion that you actively seek to disprove someone else's, even in a thread where they are not looking for opinions. Your latest thread has just proved to me that you aren't trying to understand anyone else's point of view, rather than force your own onto others.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Hammerfest:
/agree...

heres the thing...

I have an old Sony CLIE UX50... ALTHOUGH the OS and HW design is DIFFERENT then the Titan please note that:

Titan:

64MB RAM

400Mhz~ (dont know the exact think its 414 or something)

UX50:

40MB RAM

123Mhz

now I dont give a wooden nickel what anyone else thinks HOWEVER I paid $650 BACK in 2004 for this thing (the CLIE UX50) AND it OUTPERFORMS the Titan IN EVERY VIDEO/VISUAL ASPECT.... from flipping the screen, GPS, GAMES, Adobe... everything... AND i paid $250 (plan or it would have costed $500) for the Titan

now i do understand that some will say its like comparing apples to oranges HOWEVER the fact still remains 123MhzVS400Mhz~ and the 123Mhz wins (with video acceleration of a small portion of the CPU)... UNACCEPTABLE that ~1-6 (with progs running) you see.... yeah.. thats it...

EDIT1:" I doubt that your home computer scrolls noticeably faster in any window than my video shows the Programs screen scrolling."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.............. seriously though... how much thought did you put into that comment... my old server with a 500mhz INTEL and onboard 8MB video with NO DRIVERS.. performs better... ChEcK YoUr EyE's

(oh yeah not often i get to revert back to acting like a 14 year old -notes siblings have this attitude at 14 so age is correct- ahhh that was great...)
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Genjinaro:
LOL its funny to see there are still some arguing this LOL.

HTC has admitted fault here, still they missed the point of it not being solely a video issue but back to the topic:

Before I email HTC CS, does anyone have any updates or any feedback as to whats happening with this fix?
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] bakntyme:
Foetus:

First you said screen redraws take 5 to 10 seconds, then you said they take 2 to 3 seconds, then you said rotation in the home screen takes 1.5 seconds. Now you say that your device redraws the screen as fast as my video shows. There is not a redraw in that video that takes more than one-half of a second; if you are seeing one that does, you are not running the video at normal speed.

You are right, I should not presume to say what is acceptable to you. I hope that you get what you are looking for.
[Mogul, XV6800 ROM Development] Keystone:
The Palm OS and Windows CE/WM are extremely different beasts. The Palm OS was delightfully small and nimble, but now overtly limited and its time has passed.

Shall myself or another try to compare multi-tasking and the smooth sliding of the screen down between tasks on a few decades old Amiga platform and a decade old Windows PC?

Let's try to be real and honestly compare apples-to-apples rather than apples-to-oranges.

As it stands the implementation of HTC's current devices gets the advertised jobs done. Could there be improvements? Certainly. Have any of you honestly been misled and are your perceived complaints critical flaws?