yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
Just to clarify and confirm your Fire Max 11 experience to date:

1. Native Amazon-brand apps work on FireOS 8.3.1.9 (obviously) , but

2. Installing current Google Play infrastructure (via FT B) causes some (all?) native Amazon-branded apps to be unstable (ie random crashes).

That is rather bizarre behaviour ... I would never have expected Google Play to affect Amazon ecosystem in this manner ... Amazon software structure is suppose to be seft-contained and isolated. Google Play is acting as malware ?! f/w 8.3.2 is just rolling and may fix Google Play "infestation" bug. (?)

Your Fire Max 11 probably come with f/w 8.3.1.5 but was updated on factory resets if you did not disable OTA updates. All subsequent factory rests will revert to the most recent f/w installed and not f/w OOTB. f/w updates cannot be reverted back to earlier versions. This is why FTB protocol is so fervent about disabling OTA on initial installation setup.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
Thaks for the tip! I've seen this "jump start" technique work on other Android devices but didn't know it worked for Fire tablets. Beats all the other "urban myth" DYI tricks which are generally ineffective and may even be harmful to the health of your tablet.

Apparently the "moisture detected" sensing process can be triggered when low battery conditions couurcpts the Android USB Settings app. On some Android devices, cleaning the USB Settings app memory cache fixes the the problem but that is not readily available on Fire tablets.

Most "moisture detected" problems are often software/battery related (as in your case), unless the device was actually exposed to H20.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Stepsie:
Yes correct, native apps act up after toolbox has installed Google Play etc. That is what I was very surprised at. Some Apps from Play store also began crashing.

Unfortunately the first time I did the Google Play services it was via individual files. It was later that I discovered this great site and the Toolbox, by which time it was too late and my fire max must have got upgraded to 8.3.1.9

I will see how it goes and report back if it acts up again.

Thanks
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
Unfortunately, no custom ROMs avaiable for recent Fire tablet models.

Amazon has locked-down FireOS since early f/w 7.3.1.x and there has been no succesful "hack" to unlock Bootloader/BootROM to date. Some interesting techniques have been proposed but nothing definite yet.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] pyntox:
Hi, I have a Fire 7 2022 OS 8.3.1.2

I followed the instructions and I am able to see my Fire 7 in the list of devices attached by running "adb devices", and it is the only device listed

The issue is that when I run Fire Toolbox it says "device '88bab8d2' not found" and it is not the ID of my Fire 7, so it seems that it is trying to connect to another device

I have BlueStacks 5 and WSA installed, but apps and services are not running

Could you please advice me on this issue?

Thanks

EDIT: I'm using another PC with Windows 10 instead of a Windows 11 one, and now I'm able to use the tool
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] jhford:
I've forgotten how to sync my Google contacts so I can select email recipients from Gmail on my new HD7.

Thanks
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] DB126:
FWIW - running 8.3.1.9 with Play Services/Store installed via APKMirror. No issues with a limited number of apps sourced from Amazon. Google sourced apps are a crap shoot, especially those that utililize Google for authentication or make extensive use of Play Services binaries. Opera is my daily driver across multiple platforms; Edge runs fine as well. I permit FireOS updates to be applied as the hassle of trying to 'hold the line' on newer builds does not yield significant benefits for my use case. Fire Max 11 is a fussy gizmo, even when used as intended. A daily reboot avoids many issues related to poor memory/resource management that is a direct result of Amazon's tinkering. As previously noted, will move away from Fire tablets going forward unless Amazon charts a different course (which seems unlikely).
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
If your tablet crashes (reverts to homescreen) when checking firmware version, it's probably disabled already, meaning you probably have v8.3.1.5.

To check for sure without resetting, connect to Toolbox and click on your device name in the lower-left corner. A popup will apear with all sorts of info on your tablet including the f/w version. (y)
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Stepsie:
I used Edge and Opera and they were both the first two that would start crashing, along with Outlook.

Chrome would start crashing too, but Play store and Google Photos were never a problem.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Stepsie:
I didn’t have any problem going into settings and could see that I was running v8.3.1.9

Not sure how long a FW update would take, but I have not experienced any big updates like I experience on iOS. After doing a factory reset the update button is highlighted and 2 or 3 very small updates are done within seconds, so nothing like a large FW update, unless they are tiny on a Fire device?

Thanks
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
Those tiny updates are likely app updates of protected apps. They don't update through the normal process.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
Usually, if an option is greyed out or skipped, it is unavailable on your device. Mitakes have been known to happen, though. You can try disabling the OTA updates and System Updates in Manage Amazon Apps > Manual tab > Advanced. Allow the list to populate and a second popup will tell you when it's through. Search out and tick the 3 items :

Forced OTA

System Updates

DeviceSoftwareOTA

Then click Disable Selected. The console view will tell you if any of them were successful or not.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] gdroid666:
I don't know I seem to remembe rhaving a similar issue with my 2019 HD 10, I got it when it first came out and I thin FTB was not updated yet to support it and I ende dup just using ABD commands to do it manually through cmd prompt, I remember PM disabling 3 of 4 packages/procesess and to this day I have no problems with updated ans I still the tablet daily.

everyone in this thread is reporting that there is no system package /process protections on the max 11 on FW 8.3.1.5 or earlier as there is on every other model of fire tablet beyond FW 7.3.2.2

So I am just assuming that the FTB needs to be updated to take into account that the fire mx 11 is different that every other model fire tablet in that Amazon for whatver reason left system packages/processes unprotected at least on the early out of the box FW's for this tablet.

I would not rely on the method you mention simply for the fact hey might have different names for the OTA packages now and the FTB has probaly not been updated to reflect for the max 11.

nothing is greyed out it just simply does not give you any othe roption other than the fall back method for block OTA and I assume that it will also not give the options ot PM disable fire launcher or to debloat either because FTB is still working under the assumptin that any tablet with FW over 7.3.2.2 has protected processes/packages but accoring to information in this threat the fire max 11 is somehow unique in that there si no protection on 8.3.1.5

and FTB probably need to be updated to include the options that actuall disable the correct packages/processes

I will wait till datastrea weitghs in first i think i really went through hellto get this things on 8.3.1.5 and I really do not want to have it get updated and not be ale to use PM disable commands.

I just want to be extra careful here.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
In FireOS7, f/w versions up to 7.3.2.2 could have OTA Updates disabled. On 7.3.2.3 and beyond, they became "Protected Apps" and cold no longer be disabled. Then came FireOS8. Once again, original f/w v8.3.1.5 could have OTA Updates disabled. Once updated to 8.3.1.9, they were once again protected. I believe Toolbox takes this into account, though I did not write the code.

Using the Manage Amazon Apps > Manual > Advanced method that I previously mentioned, you can see if those three options are available on your particular tablet and disable them. You can also go through the list and see if they were given alternative names, and disable them. It's still easier than typing in the ADB pm disable user 0 xxx.xxxx.xxxxxx commands manually. The advanced tab reads all the apps on your tablet and displays them in an unordered list regardless if they were in a previous version of FireOS so you'll be sure to see any OTA update apps or Forced OTA update apps. They probably haven't changed the names.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
Yikes ... you're probably right!

From @Datastream33's release note for FTB v32.0 (July 20, 2023)

... "Maxing Compatibility with the Fire Max 11

With the unfortunate discovery of Max having the same restrictions as FireOS 7.3.2.2+, the device identification code has been adjusted to treat the Max 11 as "restricted". This means the Toolbox will present the options to use the workarounds that were developed for tablets running FireOS 7.3.2.2+. "

Fire Max 11 released May 23 (shipping June 24) with FireOS 8.3.1.5 OOTB; f/w 8.3.1.9 was the OTA update at that time.

FTB v31.x was working well with f/w 8.3.1.5 but had problems with f/w 8.3.1.9 "lockdown" restrictions, which was verified ca. July 11.

@Datastream33 implemented "workaround" code for f/w 8.3.1.9 restrictions in v32.0, but changed the device ID code to include all Fire Max 11 , not just devices updated OTA.

@Datastream33 should update FTB device ID ident code to differentiate f/w 8.3.1.5 OOTB with more current f/w updates.

In the interim, FTB v31.x (and micropatches) should still work as expected with Fire Max 11 with f/w 8.3.1.5 OOTB.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
Hey @Datastream33

Could you look at the Fire Max 11 device ident coding situation re: recent posts above? Thx.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] gdroid666:
" Then came FireOS8. Once again, original f/w v8.3.1.5 could have OTA Updates disabled."

ahh ok I seem now, thanks for that.

". I believe Toolbox takes this into account, though I did not write the code."

No I don't think it does, I just got the second tablet yesterday and tried it and I checked the FW and it is 8.3.1.5 still and this is the message I got

I went to the tool manually though becauae I was not able to do the welcome tour wizard, it froze and woud not get past the 3rd or 4th pop up it just would hang there.

as for your method if I go in there I would not be sure what to look for exactly and do you know if there are a different number of apps for OTA updates for fire OS 8 than for fire OS 7?

if i do it the way you suggest migh the tool box still be set to disable for fire OS 7 and not 8?

would it make a difference? like are there 3 apps you need to disable to bloc OTA updates on fire OS 7 and 4 apps you need to disable for OTA updates on fire OS8 for example

or are the names different for the different apps between 7 and 8?

or would it be the same exact number and hey have the same names?

because if the toolbox is still assuming my tablet is running fore OS 7 and not 8 then it might not completly disable OTA updats if there is a difference in those system apps that govern OTA updates for fire OS 8 from 7

I do remeber when I got my 2019 fire HD 10 that there was something different than my older tablets at the time when I manually disabled the OTA updates, I think it was like 4 apps instea dof 3 as it had bene ont he older verison fire OS

maybe they changed it again from fire OS 7 to fire OS 8.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] kuririkura:
Hi All,

Sorry I'm totally new to toolbox. I just recently purchase the fire hd 8, before i knew about toolbox.

I already install the gapps. And my requirement is only to disable amazons app, since here I can't use it either.

My question, what will happen if I didn't folow the guideline on 1st page? the fire already updated to latest update.

Is anything will be broken if i remove the amazon apps using toolbox?
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] LordUnderling:
I finally got FTB to install on a Linux PC but could only do this by installing one of the versions of Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS. I installed the Lubuntu version but this has no relevance. It's the 22.04.3 LTS release that matters. This has glibc 2.35 and allows the installation of pysimplegui, as well as other necessary Python modules, using pip. Earlier releases use an older version of glibc and newer releases are placing restrictions on the usage of pip.

Turns out that pipx will be completely useless for installing FTB. It's only purpose is to install those Python applications that you would run from the command line interface but not library modules that other Python apps would use for library function calls and such.

The problem with pysimplegui on the newer Linux releases appears to be one of bad timing. It does look like pip usage is being deprecated unless you use a virtual environment. The other pip Python modules required by FTB have been converted to software packages installable by the Linux distro package manager, "apt" in the case of Ubuntu and all of the other Debian variants.

The simplest explanation for pysimplegui not being available this way may be that nobody has gotten around to doing this conversion yet. FTB should become more easily installable on current and later Linux distro releases as soon as this is done.

I tried a number of different distributions and releases. A handy app that I used was Ventoy, https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html, that simplifies booting different OS ISO files without having to reformat a USB drive each and every time. I was able to have seven different ISO files on a single 32GB USB drive.

Anyway, I did a live boot of each OS from the USB drive and opened up a command-line interface terminal and tried two commands, "ldd --version" (to check glibc version) and "pip install pysimplegui" (to see if pip will work without complaint although it may need to be installed). I found that the Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS or the distros derived from it, such as the current release of Linux Mint, are just about the only ones that will work with FTB without a hiccup.

For those of you who want to do a deeper dive into this, here are some links to explore:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/146...aged-environment-×-this-environment-is-extern

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/04/pip-install-error-externally-managed-environment-fix

and the deepest most technical dive is:

https://peps.python.org/pep-0668/
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
To answer your question, the update will install if you didn't follow the recommended procedure. That's all.

Nothing will necessarily be broken, but earlier firmware versions usually allow more tinkering with ADB settings than later versions so you may be forced to use various workarounds to modify your tablet. Usually the longer a tablet is out, the more Amazon locks them down and prevents the removal of annoying Amazon stuff.

Just proceed to modify what you need to change and all will be good. :)
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
my first recommendation still stands:

I doubt the app names have changed, but you could have a look through the listing of apps, searching for "OTA" "system update" and "forced". Those are the apps you need to disable.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] JChu2:
Pretty good - well, more than that. But it sure sounds like "automate" doesn't play well with others (specif. FTB) Other LARGISH beef is that XDA and/or datastream seem to have either hidden the download. It's certainly not as easy to find as it should be. Last - and these criticisms are only to make what is clearly an IN DEMAND forum/product better - the FAQ's need some thinking and then updating. Really, you don't get a lot of "How can I downgrade (if possible) from 7.3 or 8.x or whatever?" ... And how about "DOES FTB make my KF faster - really?" & "Does anything happen re battery life - gain or loss?" ... The Generations table is great - how 'bout wikipedia style additional columns to make it easy to see what does & doesn't work in at least 3 or 4 generations ... with their 7/8/10 variants, if those make a difference.... With thousands of readers (many of whom write), this is not to bury the developer with scut work. Clearly he or XDA might want to make a tool available to handle things like this. (I remember - yes, it's been a minute - when people wondered whether Craigslist might benefit from SOME development (customer-facing) every 25 years or so. In some ways - given XDA's "niche" - the same question almost precludes a "NO" answer.)
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
FYI

RethinkDNS ver055 just released. Now supports third-party VPNs. Should be ueful if you're using your FTB-modded Fire tablet with a VPN service away from home.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
I noticed on my Fire HD8 + (2020) running f/w v7.3.2.7 that every time I reboot, RethinkDNS gets turned off. I had to use the VPN settings in Toolbox to make it an "always-on VPN" to force-restart it. Since I got this "+" tablet, I thought it would be more or less the same as my non + tablet. Many things are different even with a similar firmware version.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
Do you think this behavior is device specific or could it affect other Fire tablet models?
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] blaacksheep:
It seems to be specific to the HD+ series.

Edit: I have no idea. I only mention it because people follow instructions from an unknown poster and get fxxx-d. I was only commenting on the diffference between the HD8 and the HD8+.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] jhford:
Is there any difference between Launcher Replacer and Launcher Hijack?

Thanks
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Datastream33:
Greetings!

Looking through the code it appears that it's applying the "restricted" flag to tablets running FireOS 8.3.1.5 and above. I may be missing the mark here... is 8.3.1.5 still considered golden?
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Datastream33:
My sincerest apologies... I'm not quite sure what Launcher Replacer is? Could you please educate me on the matter? Thanks man!

As for Launcher Hijack, it uses an accessibility service to determine when Fire Launcher is in the foreground. However, on most FireOS versions it can be limited by a 5 second delay (except on FireOS 5 / FireOS 8 - up to FireOS 8.3.1.4 where it's considered the best option).
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Datastream33:
Greetings!

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the downloads being hidden?

As for the FAQ, I completely agree that it could use some work. It's been awhile since it's last been updated, and could really use it.

Thank you so much for the feedback! I really appreciate it!
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
TL;DR f/w 8.3.1.5 may still be considered "golden" on Fire Max 11 (but can't absolutely verify).

My impression is that Fire Max 11 users were getting full unrestricted FTB mods with the last version of FTB v31.x when Fire Max 11 rolled out in May.

Fire Max 11 OOTB has f/w 8.3.1.5 installed , but if OTA updates are not disabled per initial FTB start up protocol , Max 11 tablets were updated to f/w 8.3.1.9.

I think (but can't absolutely confirm) that f/w 8.3.1.5 was restriction-free ("golden") like pre-f/w 7.3.2.2 , but 8.3.1.9 users were facing restrictions for Fire Launcher replacement (as verified by @johnnyspork) and probably OTA Updates.

I may be presumptuous, but I'm suggesting that on Fire Max 11, FTB v32.x could differentiate between f/w 8.3.1.5 and f/w 8.3.1.9 .

BTW, it seems strange that Gen 12 Fire tablet users haven't reported any f/w 8.3.1.9 problems ... Fire Max 11 device specific?

# Edit

I'd really like to try out Fire Max 11, but it's not marketed (and can't be shipped by Amazon USA) in my region ... Thanks, Amazon! !
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
New XDA tool/utility (Python-oriented) to help with your IP/DNS web sleuthing:

https://xdaforums.com/t/tool-dns-lookup-tool.4615917/
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] gdroid666:
If/ when changes are implemented in FTB I will be happy to test and report back if my 8.3.1.5 FW sillis "golden" and I am able l PM disable system apps like OTA and fire launcher.

MY tablet is jus sitting here
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] craigh2461981:
Anybody have any idea why after disabling all Amazon bloatware certain icons reappear eg. Appstore, calendar. Not a huge problem as I can hide them in my launcher, just curious as to why it happens. Tried it 2 or 3 times but they always come back. Thanks in advance.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
This "Lazarus" behaviour has been anecdotally reported from other sources. Once an Amazon app has been diabled, it should stay diabled.

To help troubleshooting/diagnosis, could you please identify your Fire tab model, f/w version, Fire Toolbox version, your specific launcher and frequency of occurrence. Also have have you diabled OTA updates and by which method ? ... a lot of data but but it would help a lot.

My initial thought is that Amazon is re-downloading the apps wit its periodic FireOS "minipatches", but that's just speculation.

One route to totally block all Amazon server traffic would be to use a "firewall" solution like RethinkDNS. Should stop all Amazon intrusions.

Thx.
[Fire HD 8 and HD 10 Android Development] Jumbo100:
You may be "overthinking" your problems with FTB You can make most ADB mods manually without FTB on any Fire tablet model ... FTB is just a convenience . If Amazon has blocked a specified app, then it is blocked; neither you nor FTB can diable it. That is why there are FTB "workarounds".

If you're concerned with OTA updates, the most robust solution is to use a firewall/DNS blocker like RethinkDNS. That should block all Amazon server traffic. There are only four (4) Amazon apps known to be specifically related to OTA updates. Many users commonly block these apps without incurring any OTA updates. You don't need FTB to do this.

If you still want to use FTB, try using latest v31.x (with micropatches).

It recognizes Fire Max 11 and works with f/w 8.3.1.5 . If the mods you want to make can't be done with FTB, you probably won't be able to do them yourself manually.