yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
[MENTION=534784]millab[/MENTION]

Thanks for the information, I explained myself badly .. The volume is fine, it is set to 0 in the factory settings. First I wanted to say that already at half of the maximum power of the volume bar the audio is powerful. In the internet I read that in addition to changing it seems the amplifier chip with a pioneer must change the capacitor, but only if you use the volume as much as possible (professional audio tuning systems) in my case at 50% I already have to close my ears :)

I have a sound process BD375XX
[MTCD Hardware Development] millab:
Oh ok I understand. I didn't change my capacitor, the standard is 3300uf and from my reading it is a good match for this amplifier. I do not detect any distortion or lack of power at higher volumes.

What rating capacitor is recommended from your reading?
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
[MENTION=534784]millab[/MENTION]

I have a 3300uf condensator on my mb KLD MTCD

Like yours .. So I know it's okay.. I have now ordered the pioneer chip, I wait for it to improve the audio quality, even if with the widzio mod it is viper4android and it has become much better .. Thanks for the advice my friend .. I'll let you know soon
[MTCD Hardware Development] 96carboard:
Yeah, because if you see something on a Russian forum, you absolutely must do!!!!

So here is the problem with what you did.

The PA2030A is **NOT** 60W. Its 50W.

The reason you can't find a "decent datasheet" is because it is NOT manufactured by pioneer. It is, in fact, manufactured by STMicroelectronics. It is, in fact, a TDA7850A that has been "rebadged" -- just like they do with cars where, for example, Nissan Frontier was (for a while) being sold as "Suzuki Equator". They even go so far as to use the same "A" suffix. PA2030 = TDA7850, PA2030A = TDA7850A. This is its datasheet: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/tda7850a.pdf

So here is the thing..... TDA7388.

42 or 45 x4. People have been replacing THOSE with either TDA7850/1 or PA2030. Reason? Give you an extra 5W. Enough to make a difference? Heck no, but more watts!!!

I'm really sorry to tell you that any difference in sound quality is purely a figment of your imagination and nothing more. You have, in fact, replaced your amplifier chip with one that is very nearly identical.
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Yes, quite right, has been discussed in other threads. Also what you are referring to is component 'binning' by the manufacturer. Note that the amp IC, unless obtained from Pioneer, it is likely to be a Chinese counterfeit part.

For those wanting an improvement, connect external amp(s).

For the OP, a very well detailed post, which would be very helpful to those wanting to replace a failed AMP.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
[MENTION=4974080]marchnz[/MENTION] [MENTION=9305891]96carboard[/MENTION]
[MENTION=534784]millab[/MENTION]

hi, I just replaced my Tda7851L with this so-called pionieer pa2030a, ok the sound seems slightly better, but if you're right I'll tell you something.

I always had a problem on my unit eonon px3 (KLYDE) 7.1 GA8161.

the problem is in the use of USB ports, as a memory, but above all with a USB dvr, which when I use it emits from the unit an annoying and audible noise.

after the replacement with the pa2030a this background noise with usb dvr and almost disappeared (there is but much lower), it is not my idea, he also noticed my friend. now, how do you explain ?? I'm banging for a year to remove this problem but I have not succeeded in any way, the manufacturer sent me a new MB and when I replaced the noise was always the. now it's gone ...

say that it is not original, the chip could ruin or be dangerous? can it catch fire??

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

I have this

Tda on net

While the pioneers on the net are like that

Or

Apart this, look at the codes on the chip that I purchased (image 1) are the same as those on the chip tda (image 2) but different from all the images of the pa2030a that you find on the network (image 3) that the. Mio is a true pa2030a or tda .. If it was a copy that makes sense to put codes of a tda on a copy pioneer?

If you look at the pioneer for sale ripped off by the mb are like those sold on the network even from China for $ 3 4. It does not mean anything but I took from France for 11..that you say .. Are there any dangers of fire or damage?

One last question .. Reply [MENTION=534784]millab[/MENTION] at the beginning I was wrong .. My is not a Tda7851a but a Tda7851L .. And anyway the tda7851l has 25 pins like the pa2030a and then I could do Plug and play while the tda7851a has 27 pins .. Did you isolate the external pins ??. You can kindly answer all my questions .. Above all the risks ??
[MTCD Hardware Development] ciccimatt:
I’ve done some research and I’ve found this comparison table from ST site, what do you think about this little guy? STPA003

Seems like pin to pin compatible

https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stpa003.pdf
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Miss the posts outlining there is nothing to gain?
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
Tda7851L have 25 pin

Pa2030a have a 25pin

Tda7850a have a 27 pin

How does pa2030a be the tda7850a?
[MTCD Hardware Development] millab:
Sorry I was mistaken, the original chip was a TDA7851L with 25 pins.

Hmm it does look like yours is a copy (rebadged TDA clone?) but due to different internal resistances that have been reported in TDA clones, maybe that is enough to lower the noise you used to hear? You shouldn't worry about fire, at worst it may fail prematurely in which case you know how to replace it.

The chip I purchased does look to be a genuine Pioneer chip. It is manufactured differently to the TDA chips. It has a heavier ceramic casing and has the correct codes and 'Japan' marked on the front. The sound is definitely improved, and it is not just a placebo I assure you - I'm a live audio engineer and there is definitely more power coming from this amplifier. When you are dealing with stock car stereo components, the difference of a few watts RMS and a stable power supply can make a huge difference in how your system can sound.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
Should I stay with my tda7851L or do I put pioneer pa2030a?
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Missed the items suggesting there's no major benefit, use an external amp.
[MTCD Hardware Development] 96carboard:
Here is the thing... your radio isn't a big western or japanese brand. Its a nobody-ever-heard-of chinese brand. There is actually a very good chance that the chip it came with was actually counterfit or binned as "not good enough to sell".

---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 PM ----------

For a custom board I've developed, I selected that stpa003 as the amplifier. Its a wonderful chip, and is stable all the way down to 6 volts. This morning it was so damned cold out that my engine would barely crank, but the sound never skipped a beat.
[MTCD Hardware Development] JeremyHuston:
SO you are BOTH wrong.. The ST TDA7850A is a 27 PIN package as the Pioneer and those other variants are all 25 pin and are NOT compatible. The pioneer could very well be the TDA7850 as it IS pin compatible with the other package the OP listed. NOW lets look at the situation at hand and see what we COULD benefit from a swap of our Flexiwatt25 Amplifier IC.

ST was kind enough to provide us a database of pin capatible ICs. We are going to want to look at ONLY the 'Y' designation.

LINK- ST SITE, SEARC,H, sgaudiopow0315.pdf

NOW looking at this document provided by ST they have a few new variants that we could take advantage of. They have the lowest THD 0.15 IIR down to .007 TYP.

Also a higher output and GSM blocking internally. They are available in the 25 pin configuration and will work down to 6V (designed for automanufactures that are stopping engine cylinders for fuel mileage)

In this list here is the ICs that I would look at as the highest quality and PIN compatible.

STPA001,2,3,8 as they are all a little different. you want 25 pin VERTICAL. they have much better THD and a little boost in output. 2 Ohms capable also

sticking with the TDA line of ICs I would look at the MOSFET series and the following again with much better THD.

TDA7560, TDA7850

Hope this clears the air. DO NOT use the suffix A ICs as what I see they are all the 27 PIN Flexiwatt package

---------- Post added 7th March 2019 at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was 6th March 2019 at 11:58 PM ----------

the noise as you say could be GSM noise that ST targetted to reject in these later chips FYI
[MTCD Hardware Development] ciccimatt:
This is the PA2030A pin scheme from a pioneer service manual, FYI
[MTCD Hardware Development] jerrymh:
Do this works to clean the dity audio on this unit? What is the benefit on changing the amplifier chip?
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
No. Gain is marginal.
[MTCD Hardware Development] 96carboard:
If you're worried about 25 vs 27 pin package configuration, then you're completely missing the point, which is that these chips are **all the same and made in the same facility, but given different number of pins and/or manufacturer branding**.
[MTCD Hardware Development] antbox530:
After a lot of research, it appears the PA2030A is actually a TDA7384/7486/7388 or a closely built proprietary product.

The STPA003 looks to be the best flexi-watt 25 amplifier out right now, but, unless you have 2 ohm speakers or a car with start-stop (Hybrids), it wouldn't be worth your time and the TDA 7850 being the same without the low voltage operation.

All of the TDA chips that weren't 2 ohm stable and close to the PA2030A specs would be a slight downgrade from the 7851. The power levels should be virtually indistinguishable from one another, but the 7851 is 2 ohm stable (can handle more power if you have 2 ohm speakers (an additional 24 watts peak per channel) and slightly worse THD (distortion).

The PA2030A is not 2 ohm stable according to Pioneer and the 7384/7386/7388 looks almost identical to the specs listed in the Pioneer service manuals.

The 7384, 7385, 7386, and 7388 are all listed on Pioneer's parts site on older radios. It looks like they had SM "build" them the PA2030A for newer radios, but it's virtually the same with a different logo.

Here are the specs listed for the PA2030A from pioneer's repair manual:

Maximum power output: 50 W × 4

Continuous power output 22 W × 4 (50 Hz to 15 000 Hz, 5 % THD, 4 Ω load, both channels driven)

Load impedance 4 Ω (4 Ω to 8 Ω allowable)

CEA2006 Specifications

Power output 14 W RMS × 4 Channels (4 Ω

and 1 % THD+N)

S/N ratio 91 dBA (reference: 1W into 4 Ω)
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
From earlier discussion, there was little to be gained from replacing the IC and the pioneer is most likely a process of manufacturer "binning".

If more power is wanted, suggest installing external power amps.
[MTCD Hardware Development] antbox530:
Was trying to inform others that might be looking this up in the future that no chips should be replaced by the PA2030A unless broken. It is a lateral move for the TDA7388 and a downgrade for the rest as you lose 2 ohm capability. Also that if you have 2 ohm speakers, you cannot use the PA2030A or TDA7388 without issues.

If you have the TDA7454, TDA7560, TDA7850, or TDA7851F you can pick up around an additional 80 watts RMS by switching to 2 ohm speakers if you currently have 4 ohm speakers, which would be right around a 3dB increase, which should be noticeable to most people.

Or, in my case, I have a unit with the TDA7388 and had sound issues because I have 2 ohm speakers, so I swapped to the TDA7560 to fix it.
[MTCD Hardware Development] pir8man:
I am curious if anyone changed to STPA003 or STPA008. Both add GSM noise immunity.

I replaced my TDA7388 due to failure, to a TDA7850 that I had spare. But now I am thinking of changing again just to get GSM noise blocking.

I also understand that modding in a ADAU1401 DSP would reduce the background noise due to the better DAC. Any idea which path is best to reduce the background noises?
[MTCD Hardware Development] 96carboard:
I can't think of a reason why changing the DAC would have any impact on GSM noise, except if in doing so, you are bypassing or eliminating a large portion of unshielded analog wiring. The issue with amplifiers and GSM noise is that the wiring before the amplifier becomes an antenna, and that is amplified by the amplifier and dumped out to the speakers.

Before going and changing parts, the first thing I'd suggest you try is to actually build an RF shield for the pre-amp analog wiring.

You can use electrically conductive tape like this; https://www.amazon.com/TitanRF-Faraday-Tape-High-Shielding-Conductive/dp/B07CRLCGCH

Note: You don't want to short out the board though, so first you want to put down a layer of something NON-conductive, like a sheet of plastic stuck down by electrical tape, then lay the conductive tape over THAT. And don't forget to connect the conductive tape to GND.

Make sure you shield ALL of the analog wiring, including the amplifier's legs.

My board design uses STPA003 and has top-surface-layer analog signal traces that run about 2 inches between the DACs and the amplifier, and I've *never* heard any GSM or other noise. HOWEVER, my cell provider doesn't use GSM frequencies. Still, I'm sure that I've had passengers with GSM band service providers. Also note that I don't have my board in a metal box, so there is no RF shielding on it at all. So I'd say that if the shielding option doesn't work adequately, the STPA003 would. Just make sure you are aware of how the pinouts compare.

https://www.aprax.tk/auto/
[MTCD Hardware Development] pir8man:
That is correct. The DSP mod calls for removing the analog sound processor chip and replaces all sound processing from digital/analog sources through the new DSP then on to the amplifier. Some modders are feeding direct to RCA(external amplifier), others are feeding back to the built-in amp chip.

I went ahead and ordered the faraday tape. I was thinking about getting some anyway.

Would there be any benefit to pulling the mainboard and shielding the backside as well?

If so, having the mainboard removed, I might as well swap the amp chip anyway. For me, removing the HU and mainboard take more time than swapping the amp chip.

Reading up on this... The backside is a ground plane for EMI/RF blocking. That saves me some trouble.

I think I will use electrical PVC tape as a backing to the copper tape. Hopefully that will get better shielding for each chip I cover and still protect from shorting..

EDIT:

I did 2 layers of the copper tape shielding and it greatly reduced hearing of my HU processing noises. I then added 2 more layers of copper tape to remove the remaining noise. Again the processing noises were reduced. There is still slight processing noises when installing an app or copying a file, but I have to have the car as quiet as possible (engine off, windows up) to hear it now. I will probably add another couple layers the next time I am in my HU for some reason.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
I have noises of electronic noise especially when I use USB ports, I tried to replace the 3300uf capacitor with a 10000uf one, but the noise has increased. I can't solve it in any way.

Is there a possibility that Chinese radios mount clones of tda 7851l, since there are many Chinese clones of this chip or others ??
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Its not the power amp. Noise enters well before, is preamplified and then power amplified. If others had success increasing the value of the main reservoir capacitor, it may be a coinicidence, or there noise might have been car generated, entering the head unit.

The issue is poor design; lack of powersupply decoupling and internal noise suppression. Internally generated noise enters the audio path. Another issue is liberal use of glue which becomes slightly conductive with age. Ive mentioned both of these a number of time now.

No software upgrade will solve this. It is a hardware design issue.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
I tried to insert special filters in the power supply of the unit, but I have not solved it

Do you recommend removing glue?

I ordered the tda7851L chip from arrow usa, I think it is among the official sellers,

I have a doubt that Chinese units mount good fake tda audio amplification chips, as they are found a lot in China.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
I have important news.

I tried to connect the dashcam usb by connecting only the 2 data PINs on the rear usb port of the unit, and instead the + is - (power supply) of the dashcam usb on a charger for 12v cigarette socket of the car, and also on the front usb port , everything works, the loud rustling that was heard when I used USB devices connected to the unit and almost gone, the minimal rustling that this unit has

Finally!!!!

Now I have some SOLUTIONS, I would like help from you to choose the best one.

My chip that manages USB on my px3 klyde mtcd / e unit is a gl850g, model HH 28 PIN rectangle (NO square)

Where can I get the PIN + and - of the usb ports ??

Hypothesis 1:

I take from the front USB port, connecting in parallel the 3 ports, 1 front and 2 rear, but I am afraid that by connecting multiple devices something could burn.

Hypothesis 2:

I buy a 12v to 5 volt transformer and connect the +/- here, I take the current from the machine, but I would like everything to work when the radio is on, so it is born:

Hypothesis 3:

I find 5v voltage on the unit's mtcd and connect the rear USB port PINs here, maybe it could increase the noise, or

Hypothesis 4:

I find 12v voltage on mtcd of the unit able to maintain the current for the 12v-5v transformer, and from there bring current to rear usb ports bypassing the original power line of the usb ports, but also here it could increase the noise around the audio unit

Can you advise me, thank you
[MTCD Hardware Development] ELCouz:
That didn't fix the background noise doesn't it?
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Probably different issue, mixed because in true xda form, this thread has been hijacked by off-topic posts related to "audio noise" and not the OP topic "Amplifier Upgrade - Replaced TDA 7851 with Pioneer MOSFET PA2030A" The Audio Power Amp is not the root cause.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
Yes, sorry, I don't want to go off topic, but I'm trying to solve, meanwhile today the tda 7851l chips arrive, ordered from an American supplier, certainly original, I see you replace the one originally present on my unit, given the many chip clones in China, I wouldn't be surprised if they had fake, even good, chips at the factory
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Zero to do with noise though. Also, there's very little to gain power wise replacing the power amp; this has been well proven.

Note, the noise is present on the rca outputs, that alone should close any theory of the power amp.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
Ok, sure ... Thanks for the information, an information .. Is there a way to understand an original amplifier chip from a fake one?
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
Do you have any suggestions on how to disconnect the original amplifier without damaging the card ?? Unsoldering all the PINs together seems difficult, I have a manual soldering iron available
[MTCD Hardware Development] Stepikk:
Use rose's alloy to desolder chip
[MTCD Hardware Development] Allan_Hun:
I guess you could use a usb isolator. I am going to test this with my 9213AJ:

Quad USB Isolator USB HUB Isolation Module Coupling Protection Board ADUM3160

Only US$20.99, buy best quad usb isolator usb hub isolation module coupling protection board adum3160 sale online store at wholesale price.

www.banggood.com

For 5V supply you could cut one end of a usb cable and use usb car charger plugged into the cars cigarette lighter. Or purchase a 12-5V converter like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33014587698.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2ef94c4dyPE91A

That is what i am going to use. I already have a relay connected to the headunits amp remote wire. So anything connected to the relay turns on with the headunit.
[MTCD Hardware Development] JoshR778:
How its quality? Have you tested these convertes already? Never ordered anything from ali, always afraid of the technicks quality.
[MTCD Hardware Development] Allan_Hun:
Im very interested in this direct to rca mod. Could you please point me to more info about how to do it?
[MTCD Hardware Development] 96carboard:
The amplifier IC has 4 single ended analog inputs. See page 6 of the datasheet: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/tda7851f.pdf -- you can see the 4 inputs labeled as "IN1" through "IN4" near the middle of the chip and connecting to both rows of pins.

You just wire from those 4 pins to the center of 4 RCA-F jacks, and hook the shells to chassis.
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Which is effectively the RCA outs of the head unit. Does the unit not have RCA outs?

Use coupling caps too.
[MTCD Hardware Development] Allan_Hun:
Quality seems fine. Just tested carlinkit wireless carplay, usb mouse, sandisk 64GB thumb drive and dab+ dongle working simultaneous on the isolator hub :-)

You can purchase it from ebay or amazon if you prefer not to deal with ali.
[MTCD Hardware Development] Allan_Hun:
Yes it does have rca outputs but they are noisy. Presumably the noise is caused by the pcb layout / lack of shielding. So I was hoping that grabbing the signal "further upstream" (maybe directly from the output of the preamp?) could minimize the interference from other components on the board.

One question:

Would volume control keep functional if grab the analog audio signal before the internal amp?
[MTCD Hardware Development] 96carboard:
Look carefully, I was replying to someone asking about adding such outputs. As for coupling capacitors, any board having one of these amplifiers already has them between the DAC and the amplifier.
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
Correct, but you'll need to add additional if sourcing before the power amp.

If the unit has preamp outs this suggestion is a waste of time, this is essentially the same as the preamp outs, from the very same signal path.

Can we stop hijacking this thread now.
[MTCD Hardware Development] An92:
Is possible to use a model with 1 usb out port???

The isolator is same for 1 or 4 usb port out?
[MTCD Hardware Development] Allan_Hun:
I don't know. But why not get the version with 4 ports? I think it kind of nice to have spare usb ports...
[MTCD Hardware Development] hkn07:
Hi friend i have a double teyp and it has AC 7315. Can i replace it with a Pioneer MOSFET PA2030A ?? Or can u suggest me a chip better then AC7315, then i can change it
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
External power amp.
[MTCD Hardware Development] Bob_Sanders:
Quite agree. I'm not sure why anyone would want to upgrade the internal amp. It's a total waste of time and money. External amps are cheap and far better.
[MTCD Hardware Development] manilaice13:
the truth is that I think the same as you.
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
We have the truth :)
[MTCD Hardware Development] kochete:
Hello, you have somme picture how you added copper tape ? Thx
[MTCD Hardware Development] xuxu1:
I changed my amplifier today, previously yd 7388 now tda 7850. it is so worth it. Much more powerful bass, and much clearer sounds, has exceeded my expectations.

And I haven't even messed with the equilizer yet.

Installation was not so easy, however, especially the gnd pins dissipate the heat very quickly. Hot air soldering station is mandatory.
[MTCD Hardware Development] Kwen:
Unless you did a blind A/B testing, or use a calibrated microphone to measure frequency response, anything you hear can be procebo.

Anyhow, I saw a post somewhere where someone added capacitors for bootstraping and what not, that would most likely improve the sound vs swapping the IC alone.
[MTCD Hardware Development] marchnz:
It also gave the car another 100HP....:)

Yes, and according to the datasheet, the gain ID so little it is unlikely to be perceived. A bit like oxygen free cable.