yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xposed General] Shafiq baloch:
You mean there will be an end to custom ROMs too?

---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------

You mean there will be an end to custom ROMs too?
[Xposed General] Ytim08:
No, he is saying that some roms come and go. It's just how the Android development world is.
[Xposed General] Ashtrix:
Rovo was online in 2019 February. I hope he is doing well, please don't dismiss the damn effort he did just because an alternative popped up, no offense to the people who did it.

Safety Net argument isn't great, since Google wants to exert more control over OS their API downgrades, UI regressions and Play store policies, MIT licensed Fuchsia. They don't paint a good picture to me. Security aspect also its a trade off that one needs to make imho, again I will recommend to read up on Intel ME/AMD PSP for those who are too much worried.

Still fingers crossed, hoping to hear from the hero himself [MENTION=4419114]rovo89[/MENTION]
[Xposed General] HorstiG:
A message from rovo89 to his fan base would be that, at least after all these years.
[Xposed General] buddy66:
Rovo`s Last Activity: Yesterday 12:56 PM

I know it may be nothing but fingers are crossed hard.
[Xposed General] halotr:
I need inspeckage pie 9
[Xposed General] MarJava:
yes I do
[Xposed General] urbanman2004:
I just need a working Xposed for Pie so I can attempt to enable call recording since getting a new phone w/ 9.0 by default
[Xposed General] castrum_doloris:
Just take a look here

https://xdaforums.com/xposed/android-9-0-xposed-solutions-t3889513/
[Xposed General] zelendel:
You can give it up. If you want it the go and get the code he has made available and then work on it yourself.

You might as well get used to it. Things like this happen to projects all the time. Mostly it comes down to lack of time as people become adults. Most devs in this site range from 15 to 18 years old. Then once adult hood kicks in most devs move away.
[Xposed General] HyperCriSiS:
Is the source code not fully available?
[Xposed General] Fif_:
I don't think the sources for the latest published Xposed are available. Heard that from [MENTION=2799345]M66B[/MENTION], the XPrivacy/XPrivacyLua maintainer.
[Xposed General] HyperCriSiS:
OK, did not know. That's really bad, because I think there are a lot of capable devs out there that could help.

With this development speed, Xposed dies a slow death. It is really a pity. Android is nothing without xposed.

If the source code would be fully available, we could start bounty's on http://bountysource.com.

Offtopic:

Thanks for the XPrivacyLua templates btw. :)
[Xposed General] zelendel:
First Bounties wont do you any good. The level that is needed for something like this is above most XDA users as of late. And it has nothing to do with money. Its what is the down fall for all hobby developers. That is life and time. Something like this becomes less important the older you get and you have less time for it. Many projects have died off the same way. Its nothing new.
[Xposed General] justjr:
Well, if the dev goes away because of real life, meaning job, money making, among other things of course, but one can't go without money. Why woudn't it having nothing to do with money? When hes away and come back saying he was working, how come it has nothing to do with money?

Let's compare it to CEMu emulator, they stopped 'real life work' to work only on CEMU, and are making 20k+ dolars a month. I am not saying [MENTION=4419114]rovo89[/MENTION] would make same or more, but I doubt he wouldn't make sope money. Just don't know if it's worth it, at the end it's his choice, and is not that allll of this is money, but of course it has a big impact.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
Because most of the real developer here have good jobs already so money is not really the issue. He has already stated time and time again that the issue is the time it takes away from his family. This is why you see most developers here are in their teens and early years. As once adult life kicks in you almost never have the time needed for large projects like Xposed.

Money is seldom the major issue. There are many great devs that make no money for what they do. You can find them all over the place on Development focused forums.
[Xposed General] vector88:
So,why anyone else can't take the project, when original author abandoned it? There must be surely other people with android programming skills able to keep xposed alive?

As I am concerned, I need it only for one module - Flat Style Bar Indicator. Because original android wifi/mobile signal icons, clock etc. are ugly as hell (and I don't know how they can keep it so ugly for so many years till now).

(and Gravitybox of course on other than stock rom, where you can customize many things - but that can be compensated by using custom ROM with enough customizing options).

Back to xposed for Pie - I understand that there is code on Github for xposed framework that currently works on Oreo? So can anyone with enough experiences look at it and build Pie-compatible version? I would pitch in some money too.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
Xposed is/was an xda backed project. If there was someone that could pick it up they would have. Plus also xda is becoming more security focused which means things like xposed are not a good idea. Not to mention Google keeps patching all the holes xposed uses to work. So it is a constant fight. Gone are the days of things like xposed.

Now I could be wrong but only time will tell.
[Xposed General] xerves78:
xposed is necessary to get the rom / phone secure ;)

xposed is necessary to use xprivacylua and microg/fakegapps

xprivacylua is a musthave to go online with the phone :)
[Xposed General] zelendel:
So let me get this right. You think using some software and moduals made by random people on the internet is secure?

Xposed makes device far less secure. This is why rom devs do not support it. It uses security holes to do what needs to be done. So no it doesn't make your device more secure. You want secure. Then stay on stock. True mobile security is a joke and useless.
[Xposed General] M66B:
Even if Xposed would use security holes, they would be present without Xposed too. So, this is not an argument to not use Xposed.

Xposed does not require root permissions in contrary to common believe. What is true is that in most cases an unlocked bootloader is required and that this can be a security risk if the device comes in the wrong hands.

To use Xposed you need to install and activate modules. What is true is that a malicious module can be a significant security risk. What isn't true is that each and every developer is unreliable. What is true is that some Xposed modules can increase security and privacy.

The world is not as black and white and thus as easy as you present it in your comment.

General advice: check the history of module developers and use open source Xposed modules only.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
You are right. They would be there. But people wouldn't be able to access them in mass as the masses really don't have the knowledge to use it.

Never said they were unreliable just that they are in the end random people on the internet.

I have been a mod on this site for over a decade. I have worked with some of the greatest devs on the site. I am fully aware of what xposed is able to pull off. Even kept my own build for a while. Security won out.

Open source or closed sourced really doesn't matter. Most people can't read the code to understand what they are seeing anyway. So I could make a module that stole all your passwords and post it right here. And no one would be able to tell what it did. So being open source is over rated. Hell why do you think most Android devs use iPhones their daily.

No its not black and white but one must be honest. With themselves if no one else and be able. To look at things objectively
[Xposed General] M66B:
Xposed is not for the masses, but for Android enthusiasts who are, or at least should be, better informed, which is their own responsibility. Informing is also what XDA is about.

Maybe telling why security won it would be useful. The arguments that Xposed uses security holes and that 'random people' develop Xposed modules are not really arguments.

It is true that not everybody can read source code and that open source doesn't mean that it is safe. Is it also true that some can read source code and can tell if something is wrong.

In any case we agree that the world is not black and white.

Edit: I like to know where I can read that most developers use iPhones. I have never heard about this.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
5 years ago and I would have agreed with you completely. But have you been around the site recently? The number of uninformed people flashing things is astounding. It's the reason most devs only use xda now as a posting board.

As for security. I have job sites that are on the local missile base. Security is tight so my options truly are limited. Hell the only oem really approved are Apple and Samsung. I had to go through extra bs because I use this phone. I'm still not even allowed to bring it to some places on base due to the oem. So by allowing something like xposed to give a gui (for easier to exploit) to high jacking base system operations is a bit of a red flag if you follow.

True some can but the chances they will see it are almost nothing. Heck I can read it and other then my own code I have not looked at someone else's in almost a year.
[Xposed General] M66B:
It is people's own responsibility to be informed and the can be if they like. It is like driving a car, it can be dangerous, but is that a reason not to drive? (I had an analogy with sex in my mind too, but I leave that to your own imagination)

Where can I read that most developers use XDA as a posting board only?

I don't follow, as I don't see facts that support your statements.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
Go looking for developers talking about how to fix error and openly working on developing projects. They aren't. Forums are a not fast enough for development platforms.

Ask yourself this. When was the last time you even saw the lead dev of a project posting. Even the core cm/los team don't post. They leave it to the maintainers.
[Xposed General] M66B:
I am going to use myself as a counterexample, so I can say you are at least not always right.

Can we go back to the discussion about why Xposed isn't safe and can you please support this with facts?
[Xposed General] zelendel:
If you dont really know then I would not put much weight in that label. (cant say I know any of your work) Also if you do some research on who you are talking to I dont put much weight in XDA titles. Yes my Titles are gone (this is what happens when you pick on the Portal editor lol) but I have been around enough.

Being able to highjack the OS at a base system bypassing any and all security is the major whole. Why do you think most rom developers will not support xposed and even some make fun of the users for installing it.

Now if you dont see the security holes then you have bigger issues then some xposed mod not getting supported. Which I will assume you are smarter then that. I mean you did pass the questions :silly:
[Xposed General] Fif_:
Not only you're off-topic for this thread, when asked specific technical questions, you keep replying "it's well known" or "you should know". I know exactly what's Xposed and what it does to my system, it's no more dangerous than rooting or using a VPN or keyboard app.

Refrain from posting in Xposed threads if all you have to offer is your unsubstantiated opinion, thank you, we are now all aware of it, multiple times.
[Xposed General] M66B:
'Being able to highjack the OS at a base system bypassing any and all security' does not necessary cause a 'major (security) hole'. What is this statement based on? Telling that people do this and do that doesn't support this statement in any case.

So, I am still not seeing any facts supporting your statements.

I had hoped for a sensible discussion about the pro and cons of Xposed from a security perspective, but so far I have only seen baseless claims. Too bad.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
Ok first off using a keyboard apps is flat out stupid but hey everyone uses one built in with keyloggers anyway. A VPN? That is not even secure to begin with.

Now as for root. You can ask any security expert for android. Even XDA iunternet security expert says root is a security risk and many roms are no longer even supporting any root.

Now As for you telling me what to do. Dopnt bother. You are a blink in the eye top me. I was hear modding this forum long before you and will be here long after you are gone.

No you dont. You have zero idea.

But I bet that is over your head as you clearly dont understand when someone is not even talking to you. Also I did explain it but you clearly dont get it.

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

If you dont see the possible security issues then you have a problem man. Why not go see what people say about xposed in the security talks.

Either way. Xposed is just about dead so it really doesnt matter.
[Xposed General] M66B:
My first comment here listed some pros and cons, so it isn't that I don't see security risks. However, I don't see the security risks you seem to see, but can't support with facts other than 'what (other) people say'.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
Ok let me see if I can dumb this down. You see the risks but you are willing to over look them due to the project I just looked up.

Without exposed installed you could load all the moduals you want. They wont do anything without the framework.

The only facts needed are just how it works. A perfect example is bypassing Exchange security. This which has been an issue for a long time and even cost one person I know to be fired for its use.

Many people are ok with the risks or we wouldnt be here. But with teh push for XDA to be more aligned with Google security practices you will not find many if any working on Xposed. Not like it used to be where we woould all be ready to break any and all security google would throw.
[Xposed General] M66B:
I don't see any pros or cons about the security of Xposed in this comment.

That people got fired for using an Xposed module doesn't say anything about the security of Xposed.

So far you have said a lot of things but couldn't support anything with facts. It seems to me that you are just spreading FUD.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
The fact that it can high jack the base framework and replace it at runtime is the whole security hole but I wouldn't expect you to see it. Like I said you are kinda biased in the matter.

The fact that it was used to bypass a security feature should say enough. But again I guess I should be surprised.

But let's just agree to disagree. You can believe what you want and I will do the same and everyone can be happy lol
[Xposed General] M66B:
It is a fact that Xposed is a powerful framework, but it isn't a fact that this makes Xposed insecure.

Like you can install malicious apps, you can install malicious Xposed modules. This doesn't make Android or Xposed insecure.

I have given and asked for pros and cons about the security of Xposed supported by facts, so you cannot call me biased.
[Xposed General] marcdw:
Hey [MENTION=1140856]zelendel[/MENTION], you familiar with XPrivacy, XPrivacyLua, or FairEmail. I'm sure that dev is quite familiar with Android security and whatnot. I'm sure he'd be interested in your views, as long as facts are presented.

[emoji6][emoji16][emoji57]

Moto G5S Plus XT1806, Liquid Remix v9.1.4 ROM, MultiROM, XDA Legacy
[Xposed General] zelendel:
If you say so bro. Think what you want but being able to do just that does indeed make android less secure. Its part of the reason that most android devices are not allowed to be used in jobs that require high security.

I can as I have but you refuse to see it as the security it is. Installing the app is not the same as it is self contained. Just think about how useful your own project would be without xposed framework. It wouldnt even work. So yes the xposed framework is the key.

But in the end I dont see why we are even bothering to argue about this. Xposed is pretty much dead these days and once more and more are on 9.0 less and less will use xposed. Add in the fact that roms are not supporting anything if xposed is installed and you can pretty much see the end for xposed.

So you can either see it as a security hole or not.
[Xposed General] M66B:
Without supporting facts your statement isn't worth anything.
[Xposed General] Fif_:
Let's just agree not to feed the troll.

20 comments to say nothing of value and repeating the same unsubstantiated things over and over while pressing people's buttons, that's a troll.
[Xposed General] xerves78:
stock rom is secure ? :rolleyes:

stock rom is full of tracking und spy stuff by Android / Google and Manufacter, Google Services, f.e. Samsung stuff, tracker, spy functions, ...

all security blogs suggest xposed and xprivacylua to protect our privacy

this random people write apps / modules to protect our privacy ;)

Android doesnt support this functions, blocking spy / tracker, because Android is a google product ;)

what is the alternative for you ?

without xposed / xprivacylua, you cant block spy / tracking stuff by the android system, Google stuff and apps
[Xposed General] M66B:
I do agree, but I didn't expect a former moderator with a lot of XDA thanks to be a troll.
[Xposed General] zelendel:
Or maybe i just expected too much from XDA users these days.

As for the troll. Ill be a troll at least I am not blind due to my own ego. Nor am I a blind sheep coming to defend some one just because I use its "work"

You guys can think what ever you want. I like many older member accept that there is a risk to what we do. I mean you are trusting some random person on the internet. I have been around long enough to atch many projects like xposed show up, be popular and die. I will watch xposed do the same thing.

As for the tracking software and things of that nature. I wont even dignify that with a response. You do use an OS made by a data collection and sales company.

Then you can think just how I got those thanks and that mabybe, just maybe. I might be right even though you dont agree. But then an unlocked bootloader is a security risk as well.
[Xposed General] Sass86oh:
You can downgrade a Pixel 2 XL from Android Pie to Oreo as many times as you want. It's not prohibited and you don't need some special backup saved to do it. You can flash a Pie rom and then flash back to Oreo by flashing an Oreo rom just as you would with any other rom.
[Xposed General] gregfrankenstein:
I think any app that would want to put in that kind of effort to play cat and mouse and try to block Xposed already is, whether they have the code or not. Unless you're Pokémon Go and it's vital to your entire ecosystem to prevent cheating, what app is going to put in the manpower to patch their detection mechanism every time rovo makes a GitHub commit, just to block like a fraction of a percent of their userbase?

Right, but malicious apps tend to be sandboxed by SELinux, unless some kind of vulnerability is exploited. The addition of Xposed allows the app to hook into any part of the OS. I still use Xposed because I think the tradeoff of usefulness is worth the risk, but it is a risk.
[Xposed General] positivetourettes:
+1,Pls support Pie.
[Xposed General] unknown:
It quite stable but still seems a bit hard for making it stable as even nougat xposed on beta stage now . Pie xposed will come , for sure because oreo to pie have not much change in source like mm to n .

---------- Post added at 03:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------

A massive trolling and dumb :)
[Xposed General] RusherDude:
What? There was a massive change between MM and N regarding JIT (rovo89 itself explained that was going to be a HUGE headache).
[Xposed General] unknown:
I said mm and n change was HUGE
[Xposed General] Han-Droid:
just thinking... "no xposed for Pie means no further development in modules"? or "no pie for module-lovers - they are stuck on oreo" ?

furthermore: "stuck on oreo with all the nice modules cost the price of no android (core) updates" ?
[Xposed General] RusherDude:
true, sorry :P

---------- Post added at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

No xposed for PIE - No modules for pie, development for modules on Oreo or previous can continue until devs get bored.

Exactly. You can stay in oreo for a year waiting for pie to come out, we did this for Nougat. In fact, Some of us were on Marshmallow waiting for Xposed Nougat when Oreo came out, and we waited more than half a year for Xposed Lollipop before...
[Xposed General] xerves78:
Xposed for Oreo is still beta and doesnt work perfect.

so the most xposed user are on nougat and not on oreo

But nearly all Custom Roms developers release and support only PIE, so the xposed user are on old, not actual, roms
[Xposed General] 63c:
the xposed framework is dead. just go find what you want in magisk.
[Xposed General] RusherDude:
aka forget about stuff. Because Magisk cannot do even 1% of what Xposed can do. With Xposed dies the best and most powerful modding tool in history of Android.
[Xposed General] chrcol:
The only modules for me broken on oreo are snapprefs and zoom for instagram, the latter as I understand it is also broken on android 7.x and is a module problem not a xposed framework issue.

snapprefs I dont know yet but is a very old version of the module so I am hoping once I update it, then it will be fine. All my other modules work fine.

When google release a new android, the actual new features are usually "meh", for me personally android 7.x offered nothing, 8.x nothing, 9.x some nice new UI so its not bland, but luckily the rom I have now has imported some pie style to 8.x. I was using 6.x up until today, so its definitely not the end of the world to not be on latest android, especially when it often can break stuff and google also often remove features.
[Xposed General] marcdw:
Snapprefs 2.1.0 has worked fine for me on Nougat and Oreo (with the right settings). Alas, for some reason Snap has logged me out of all of my Snapchat installations. Given that I haven't logged in since 2014 (always backing up and restoring data since then) I have no idea what my login is. So I just stopped using the app altogether.

LG G3 D851, LiquidRemix v9.1.3 Oreo ROM, microG (NoGapps), MultiROM, XDA Legacy
[Xposed General] N.Y.Gazz:
with xposed the only module that uses it is "123 dimension" which works on the navigation bars and notification to reduce them. this is very important for me and in magisk it does not exist. so I hope I could reduce the size of the stone navigation bar as it bothers me.

Envoyé de mon G8142 en utilisant Tapatalk

there is nothing in magisk that is useful to me. I am talking about modules.
[Xposed General] thirtythr33:
so I made the switch last night over to pie. (device: essential / rom: aosip) and honestly I just can't do it. I have been using xposed since its inception, and I don't think I can deal with having my phone without it. (afwall, gravitybox, xprivacylua, external process lock, xinsta, amplify, appopsxposed)

I have really given pie a shot, but with a custom rom, along with xposed, there is nothing that compares. I wish rovo would release the rest of his code for the community to help with. although I am only fluent in python, I could definitely contribute.
[Xposed General] Phoenix Wright:
To contribute you need to study how the ART runtime works (which is written in C++/assembly iirc), by reading Google's code; and you also need to understand how Xposed modifies ART to do its stuff. It's very low level and complex stuff that requires reading and understanding a huge amount of code. I'm sure if anyone showed to actually be able to do that Rovo would share his stuff.
[Xposed General] maxsteelvishak:
Rovo - please listen to all of us, please give us Xposed for pie
[Xposed General] smatm:
Xposed is probably dead.